Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:36 AM - tailcone rivets (Dave Leikam)
2. 05:56 AM - Re: tailcone rivets (Rene Felker)
3. 06:12 AM - Re: tailcone rivets ()
4. 06:23 AM - Re: tailcone rivets (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
5. 06:38 AM - Re: IFR (John Jessen)
6. 08:41 AM - Re: tailcone rivets (Chris Johnston)
7. 08:50 AM - Re: IFR (Niko)
8. 09:13 AM - Re: tailcone rivets (Tim Olson)
9. 10:09 AM - Re: IFR (MauleDriver)
10. 10:11 AM - Re: tailcone rivets (Chris Johnston)
11. 10:15 AM - Re: tailcone rivets (John Gonzalez)
12. 10:35 AM - Re: tailcone rivets (Jesse Saint)
13. 10:41 AM - Re: Setting trailing edges of control surfaces (orchidman)
14. 10:47 AM - Re: tailcone rivets (Dj Merrill)
15. 10:49 AM - Re: tailcone rivets (Stovall Todd Lt Col AF/A4RX)
16. 10:58 AM - Re: tailcone rivets (Vern W. Smith)
17. 11:21 AM - (No subject header) (John Ackerman)
18. 12:25 PM - Re: Re: Setting trailing edges of control surfaces (Les Kearney)
19. 12:34 PM - Re: tailcone rivets (Ben Westfall)
20. 12:40 PM - Re: tailcone rivets (John Gonzalez)
21. 01:50 PM - Re: tailcone rivets (Jesse Saint)
22. 02:34 PM - Re: IFR (C Smith)
23. 03:51 PM - Re: IFR (Dave Leikam)
24. 03:52 PM - Re: tailcone rivets (Dave Leikam)
25. 04:13 PM - Re: Setting trailing edges of control surfaces (orchidman)
26. 04:21 PM - Re: Re: Setting trailing edges of control surfaces (Chris , Susie Darcy)
27. 04:31 PM - Re: tailcone rivets (David Maib)
28. 04:32 PM - Re: Re: Setting trailing edges of control surfaces (James Hein)
29. 04:40 PM - Re: Re: Setting trailing edges of control surfaces (Chris , Susie Darcy)
30. 04:56 PM - Re: Re: Setting trailing edges of control surfaces (James Hein)
31. 05:24 PM - Re: tailcone rivets (bruce breckenridge)
32. 05:41 PM - door latched security system (David McNeill)
33. 06:22 PM - Re: door latched security system (Jesse Saint)
34. 06:31 PM - Re: door latched security system (JSMcGrew@aol.com)
35. 07:23 PM - Re: IFR (Kelly McMullen)
36. 07:29 PM - Re: door latched security system (Rob Kermanj)
37. 09:27 PM - Re: tailcone rivets (Dave Leikam)
38. 09:27 PM - Re: tailcone rivets (John Gonzalez)
39. 09:33 PM - Re: door latched security system (John Gonzalez)
40. 10:05 PM - Re: tailcone rivets (MauleDriver)
41. 10:20 PM - Re: door latched security system (David McNeill)
Message 1
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Anyone have any good advice as to how to get at the top skin tailcone
rivets? No one in my family is small. I also worry about climbing
around in there and bending or denting somthing. Words from the wiser?
Dave Leikam
40496
Message 2
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You can check the archives and see if this is in there. But if I remember
right Jesse Saint stood his up on end and had someone stand up in the
middle.
I had mine on a piece of carpet and then filled the bottom with foam and
pillows and crawled on in. My then two year kept wanting to come in and
play, but other than that it was not that bad.
Rene' Felker
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 6:35 AM
Subject: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
Anyone have any good advice as to how to get at the top skin tailcone
rivets? No one in my family is small. I also worry about climbing around
in there and bending or denting somthing. Words from the wiser?
Dave Leikam
40496
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: tailcone rivets |
I filled in the areas between the bulkheads with polyurethane foam cut to fit,
then laid a second layer on top. My 200 lb neighbor laid on his back and bucked
the rivets.
Took about an hour but we had no problems at all.
Jim C
N312F
Do Not Archive
===========================================================
From: "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM@wi.rr.com>
Subject: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
Anyone have any good advice as to how to get at the top skin tailcone rivets?
No one in my family is small. I also worry about climbing around in there and
bending or denting somthing. Words from the wiser?
Dave Leikam
40496
===========================================================
Message 4
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I also did it this way, carpet on the floor and pillows inside. Worked
well, we had the offset back rivet from Avery, and the barbell bucking
bar from them as well.
Dan
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Felker
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 8:54 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
You can check the archives and see if this is in there. But if I
remember right Jesse Saint stood his up on end and had someone stand up
in the middle.
I had mine on a piece of carpet and then filled the bottom with foam and
pillows and crawled on in. My then two year kept wanting to come in and
play, but other than that it was not that bad.
Rene' Felker
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 6:35 AM
Subject: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
Anyone have any good advice as to how to get at the top skin tailcone
rivets? No one in my family is small. I also worry about climbing
around in there and bending or denting somthing. Words from the wiser?
Dave Leikam
40496
www.aeroelectric.com
www.kitlog.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Message 5
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I cannot discuss this topic other than say that the Sporty's DVD set was
completely, IMHO, a waste of money. I actually sent them back. Now, they
may have changed them since I bought several years ago, so they might be
better. Gleim got me through the private and was boring but effective.
I've not seen the King material. If you can borrow a set, just to preview
them, then go buy, that'd be one route.
John Jessen
#40328 - (back at it, finally, and trying to read through over 400 emails
on this list, some about taking showers?)
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 7:15 AM
Subject: RV10-List: IFR
I just want to thank all the recent posts about obtaining IFR before
completing my 10. I have about 150 hours and am going to start training
after the New Year. I always thought I would do it in the 10 after it was
built, but I feel the comments I have read make good sense. I would like to
know if anyone has used the Sporties DVD series and if those kinds of
programs are worth getting. How about the IFR crash courses? Obviously
safety and solid training are number one, but you sure can spend alot of
money on the rating. I told my wife when she bought me the tail kit, she
had no idea what she started! Somtimes I wish I had fallen in love with
needle-point.
Dave Leikam
40496
do not archive
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Message 6
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Me same as everyone else. Pillows, blankets, girlfriend. See below -
http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Tailcone/tailconefinish.htm
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel
R.
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 6:21 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
I also did it this way, carpet on the floor and pillows inside. Worked
well, we had the offset back rivet from Avery, and the barbell bucking
bar from them as well.
Dan
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Felker
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 8:54 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
You can check the archives and see if this is in there. But if I
remember right Jesse Saint stood his up on end and had someone stand up
in the middle.
I had mine on a piece of carpet and then filled the bottom with foam and
pillows and crawled on in. My then two year kept wanting to come in and
play, but other than that it was not that bad.
Rene' Felker
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 6:35 AM
Subject: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
Anyone have any good advice as to how to get at the top skin tailcone
rivets? No one in my family is small. I also worry about climbing
around in there and bending or denting somthing. Words from the wiser?
Dave Leikam
40496
www.aeroelectric.com
www.kitlog.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
h
ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics
.
com/Navigator?RV10-List
Message 7
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Hi Dave,=0A=0AI am currently using the King/Cessna video course for my IFR
training. I do like their videos, however, I get sleepy shortly after I st
art watching them. Maybe its because I usually watch them at the end of th
e day when I am tired. The thing I like best about them is that each video
lesson has a corresponding flying lesson with it. So you watch the video
and then go out with your instructor and fly. They actually tell you exact
ly what you need to do while flying and have a form your instructor fills o
ut after the flight to make sure you did what you were supposed to do. I f
eel this way I am a lot more prepared for the lesson and tend to get more o
ut of it. I would highly recommend them. By the way, this is the course m
aterial for the part 141 school.=0A=0ANiko=0A40188=0A=0A=0A----- Original M
essage ----=0AFrom: Dave Leikam <DAVELEIKAM@wi.rr.com>=0ATo: matronics <rv1
0-list@matronics.com>=0ASent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 10:15:21 AM=0ASubje
ct: RV10-List: IFR=0A=0A=0AI just want to thank all the recent posts about
obtaining IFR before completing my 10. I have about 150 hours and am going
to start training after the New Year. I always thought I would do it in t
he 10 after it was built, but I feel the comments I have read make good sen
se. I would like to know if anyone has used the Sporties DVD series and if
those kinds of programs are worth getting. How about the IFR crash course
s? Obviously safety and solid training are number one, but you sure can sp
end alot of money on the rating. I told my wife when she bought me the tai
l kit, she had no idea what she started! Somtimes I wish I had fallen in l
ove with needle-point.=0A =0ADave Leikam=0A40496=0A =0Ado not archive=0A=0A
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: tailcone rivets |
Man, that actually sounds like a great recipe for much more
than aircraft building. ;)
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Chris Johnston wrote:
> Me same as everyone else. Pillows, blankets, girlfriend. See below
>
>
>
> http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Tailcone/tailconefinish.htm
>
>
>
> cj
>
> #40410
>
> fuse
>
> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
>
Message 9
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My experience with the Sporty's set (tapes) goes back 7 years or so but
they weren't what I needed. I did use the King set and they were good.
Solid instruction the whole way thru.
John Jessen wrote:
> I cannot discuss this topic other than say that the Sporty's DVD set
> was completely, IMHO, a waste of money. I actually sent them back.
> Now, they may have changed them since I bought several years ago, so
> they might be better. Gleim got me through the private and was boring
> but effective. I've not seen the King material. If you can borrow a
> set, just to preview them, then go buy, that'd be one route.
>
> John Jessen
> #40328 - (back at it, finally, and trying to read through over 400
> emails on this list, some about taking showers?)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Dave
> Leikam
> *Sent:* Sunday, December 17, 2006 7:15 AM
> *To:* matronics
> *Subject:* RV10-List: IFR
>
> I just want to thank all the recent posts about obtaining IFR
> before completing my 10. I have about 150 hours and am going to
> start training after the New Year. I always thought I would do it
> in the 10 after it was built, but I feel the comments I have read
> make good sense. I would like to know if anyone has used the
> Sporties DVD series and if those kinds of programs are worth
> getting. How about the IFR crash courses? Obviously safety and
> solid training are number one, but you sure can spend alot of
> money on the rating. I told my wife when she bought me the tail
> kit, she had no idea what she started! Somtimes I wish I had
> fallen in love with needle-point.
>
> Dave Leikam
> 40496
>
> do not archive
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
> *
>
> -- No virus found in this Edition. Release Date: 12/17/2006 3:17 PM
>
>
> --
> 12/17/2006 3:17 PM
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 10
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Haha. I must be tired. Didn't realize how that sounded :)
cj
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
Man, that actually sounds like a great recipe for much more
than aircraft building. ;)
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Chris Johnston wrote:
> Me same as everyone else. Pillows, blankets, girlfriend. See below -
>
>
>
> http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Tailcone/tailconefinish.htm
>
>
>
> cj
>
> #40410
>
> fuse
>
> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
>
Message 11
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Never had to get inside. Used two saw horses and kept flipping the tailcone
on its side while I accessed through the open hole in the side or top. Open
hole is the forward tailcone skin off. Leaning in, I was able to use the
gun while my partener was on the outside with the bucking bar.
Put down a lot of foam to protect your knees from the ground. The flatness
of the tailcone side skins allows all this to happen by sitting on the saw
horses. Becareful when stretching inside while standing, to get at the
rivets towards the back, take breaks, otherwise you might get a bad cramp in
your calves and hamstrings.
John G.
>From: "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM@wi.rr.com>
>To: "matronics" <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 07:34:58 -0600
>
>Anyone have any good advice as to how to get at the top skin tailcone
>rivets? No one in my family is small. I also worry about climbing around
>in there and bending or denting somthing. Words from the wiser?
>
>Dave Leikam
>40496
Message 12
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This has worked great for us.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnston
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 11:40 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
Me same as everyone else. Pillows, blankets, girlfriend. See below -
http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Tailcone/tailconefinish.htm
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R.
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 6:21 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
I also did it this way, carpet on the floor and pillows inside. Worked well,
we had the offset back rivet from Avery, and the barbell bucking bar from
them as well.
Dan
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Felker
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 8:54 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
You can check the archives and see if this is in there. But if I remember
right Jesse Saint stood his up on end and had someone stand up in the
middle.
I had mine on a piece of carpet and then filled the bottom with foam and
pillows and crawled on in. My then two year kept wanting to come in and
play, but other than that it was not that bad.
Rene' Felker
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 6:35 AM
Subject: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
Anyone have any good advice as to how to get at the top skin tailcone
rivets? No one in my family is small. I also worry about climbing around
in there and bending or denting somthing. Words from the wiser?
Dave Leikam
40496
www.aeroelectric.com
www.kitlog.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
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Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Setting trailing edges of control surfaces |
kearney(at)shaw.ca wrote:
>
> Given the purpose of the adhesive it .....
>
I am new at this, can you please expand on the 'purpose'. Is it to hold the wedge
in place while riviting, or seal it from water etc.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N410GB reserved)
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82262#82262
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: tailcone rivets |
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Man, that actually sounds like a great recipe for much more
> than aircraft building. ;)
>
Probably why he bought a 4 place airplane... *wink*
-Dj
do not archive
Message 15
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All,
After reading all of the posts to this thread, are most folks
backriveting the tailcone skins vs bucking with a flush set, or did I
misunderstand some of the posts? Using the backrivet set with a bucking
bar never occurred to me. Although I'm only on my HS (ready to rivet),
the tailcone is close enough for me to begin thinking about it.
Thanks,
Todd
#40631
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 1:15 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
--> <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
Never had to get inside. Used two saw horses and kept flipping the
tailcone on its side while I accessed through the open hole in the side
or top. Open hole is the forward tailcone skin off. Leaning in, I was
able to use the gun while my partener was on the outside with the
bucking bar.
Put down a lot of foam to protect your knees from the ground. The
flatness of the tailcone side skins allows all this to happen by sitting
on the saw horses. Becareful when stretching inside while standing, to
get at the rivets towards the back, take breaks, otherwise you might get
a bad cramp in your calves and hamstrings.
John G.
>From: "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM@wi.rr.com>
>To: "matronics" <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 07:34:58 -0600
>
>Anyone have any good advice as to how to get at the top skin tailcone
>rivets? No one in my family is small. I also worry about climbing
>around in there and bending or denting somthing. Words from the wiser?
>
>Dave Leikam
>40496
Message 16
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Did pretty much the same. However, I went inside and back riveted with
my son on the outside with a large bucking bar. Cleaveland Tool sells a
back riveter with a 12" reach.
Vern (#324 fuselage)
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Johnston
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 8:40 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
Me same as everyone else. Pillows, blankets, girlfriend. See below -
http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Tailcone/tailconefinish.htm
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel
R.
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 6:21 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
I also did it this way, carpet on the floor and pillows inside. Worked
well, we had the offset back rivet from Avery, and the barbell bucking
bar from them as well.
Dan
_____
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Here's 2 cents more:
My main table is 32" wide and I love it. Best part is that it was a really heavy
assembly table I made for cabinet work, and thus is very low - about 26' as I
recall, 7 feet long, with 4X4 legs and an MDF top (like others, I think MDF is
nearly optimal). When I want it at a more conventional height, like 32", I bolt
a
piece of 2X10 across the legs on each end. For things like assembling the tail
cone, the lower height is perfect; for most work the higher surface works better.
I'd do that again.
The back rivet plate from one of the usual tool suppliers is inlaid in the main
bench - big mistake. It's too small, and it's hard to tell where it is when
working on a big piece. Deems gave me a much bigger sheet (about 14X 20, I think
- this is being written on an airliner) of 1/4" thick steel, and it works like
a
charm, especially for riveting the tail cone with the Clecoes put in from the
inside out. Thanks, Deems for the plate and for the idea!
I also built a light 4 1/2 foot auxiliary table from the tail crate and scraps.
For long stuff like the horizontal stab and wings, I shim it level and coplanar
with the main table, but leave a space between them of about a foot and a half.
That's pretty handy. The scavenged plywood/formica top is only 24" wide, and I
prefer the 32" width by a lot.
Grinder/ polishers, disk/belt sander and big 'ol vise are mounted on a
conventional bench against the wall. I should have taken the advice in Tony
Bingelis' books and built small roll around stands for all but the vise.
Drill press stands alone on the floor - nice if you can find a good used one for
cheap. There's a roll-around plastic table for clecoes and tools -in-use that's
handly, perhaps best is a kick stool for sitting on for low work. Saves the
remains of my knees.
do not archive
John Ackerman 40458 QB fuse
ps sorry so slow to post - I'm on the road
---- Msg sent via CableONE.net MyMail - http://www.cableone.net
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Setting trailing edges of control surfaces |
Hi Gary
As I understand the process, it is to hold the wedge in place for
riveting
as well as sets up the alignment of the trailing edges so that they are
straight. If you merely clecoed the wedges in place and riveted, you
would
likely end up with a bend / bow etc in the trailing edge. The Van's
method
of gluing and weighting the edges allows the alignment to be "set" by
the
adhesive in preparation for riveting.
I am very happy with the results I have achieved using angle aluminum
and
the PL2000 adhesive.
Cheers
Les Kearney
RV10 - # 40643 - Lost in the empennage
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of orchidman
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 11:38 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Setting trailing edges of control surfaces
kearney(at)shaw.ca wrote:
>
> Given the purpose of the adhesive it .....
>
I am new at this, can you please expand on the 'purpose'. Is it to hold
the
wedge in place while riviting, or seal it from water etc.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N410GB reserved)
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82262#82262
Message 19
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I stuffed my petite wife into the padded tailcone for riveting while it was
resting on our EAA plans workbench. Don't worry about climbing in there if
the table or surface your tailcone is sitting on is sturdy and fully
supported. Just move slow and be careful about putting any weight on the
ribs. She bucked all the j-channel and rib rivets. When riveting the
longerons to the side skins we switched places and back riveted. That was
sure quite a site cause I'm no small guy (6'3" and big!). The rivets came
out excellent. If we were to do it again I think we would have back-riveted
the j-channel and as much else as possible.
For back riveting w/o using the steel plates we have a rather large bucking
bar that weights 5 pounds or so and has a 3" round face that we got on ebay
with our rivet gun. We are definitely faster when we can back rivet cause
you don't have to be as paranoid about unintended dimples in the skins.
Right now we are riveting the top skins to the ribs and spars. I made a 12"
back rivet set from a longer set that came with our gun from ebay. Would
have been much better to just buy one but this got us riveting over the
weekend instead of waiting for it to show up after ordering. I definitely
recommend the method of using a large bucking bar on the machine head side
flush with the skin and back-riveting wherever possible. Specially for
highly visible areas like the tailcone and wing top skins.
Ben Westfall
#40579 Wing Top Skins
Portland, OR
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 6:35 AM
Subject: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
Anyone have any good advice as to how to get at the top skin tailcone
rivets? No one in my family is small. I also worry about climbing around
in there and bending or denting somthing. Words from the wiser?
Dave Leikam
40496
www.aeroelectric.com
www.kitlog.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navi
gator?RV10-List
Message 20
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Back rivetting everything except where it is too small to get yourself in
there...and that would be for and aft of the second to last bulkhead, the
one the HS sit on.
The Use the big elevator bucking bar and lay it down on the rivets, about
ten at a time.
John G.
>From: "Stovall Todd Lt Col AF/A4RX" <Todd.Stovall@pentagon.af.mil>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 13:45:43 -0500
>
><Todd.Stovall@pentagon.af.mil>
>
>All,
>After reading all of the posts to this thread, are most folks
>backriveting the tailcone skins vs bucking with a flush set, or did I
>misunderstand some of the posts? Using the backrivet set with a bucking
>bar never occurred to me. Although I'm only on my HS (ready to rivet),
>the tailcone is close enough for me to begin thinking about it.
>
>Thanks,
>Todd
>#40631
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
>Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 1:15 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
>
>--> <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>
>Never had to get inside. Used two saw horses and kept flipping the
>tailcone on its side while I accessed through the open hole in the side
>or top. Open hole is the forward tailcone skin off. Leaning in, I was
>able to use the gun while my partener was on the outside with the
>bucking bar.
>
>Put down a lot of foam to protect your knees from the ground. The
>flatness of the tailcone side skins allows all this to happen by sitting
>on the saw horses. Becareful when stretching inside while standing, to
>get at the rivets towards the back, take breaks, otherwise you might get
>a bad cramp in your calves and hamstrings.
>
>John G.
>
>
> >From: "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM@wi.rr.com>
> >To: "matronics" <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
> >Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 07:34:58 -0600
> >
> >Anyone have any good advice as to how to get at the top skin tailcone
> >rivets? No one in my family is small. I also worry about climbing
> >around in there and bending or denting somthing. Words from the wiser?
> >
> >Dave Leikam
> >40496
>
>
Message 21
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I recommend back riveting as much as you possibly can. It avoids scuffs on
the outside metal and it is much easier to get a perfect shop head.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stovall Todd Lt
Col AF/A4RX
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 1:46 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
<Todd.Stovall@pentagon.af.mil>
All,
After reading all of the posts to this thread, are most folks
backriveting the tailcone skins vs bucking with a flush set, or did I
misunderstand some of the posts? Using the backrivet set with a bucking
bar never occurred to me. Although I'm only on my HS (ready to rivet),
the tailcone is close enough for me to begin thinking about it.
Thanks,
Todd
#40631
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 1:15 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
--> <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
Never had to get inside. Used two saw horses and kept flipping the
tailcone on its side while I accessed through the open hole in the side
or top. Open hole is the forward tailcone skin off. Leaning in, I was
able to use the gun while my partener was on the outside with the
bucking bar.
Put down a lot of foam to protect your knees from the ground. The
flatness of the tailcone side skins allows all this to happen by sitting
on the saw horses. Becareful when stretching inside while standing, to
get at the rivets towards the back, take breaks, otherwise you might get
a bad cramp in your calves and hamstrings.
John G.
>From: "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM@wi.rr.com>
>To: "matronics" <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 07:34:58 -0600
>
>Anyone have any good advice as to how to get at the top skin tailcone
>rivets? No one in my family is small. I also worry about climbing
>around in there and bending or denting somthing. Words from the wiser?
>
>Dave Leikam
>40496
Message 22
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_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 10:15 AM
Subject: RV10-List: IFR
How about the IFR crash courses?
Ummm. No pun intended right????
;-D
CS
Dave Leikam
40496
do not archive
Message 23
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Yeah that sounds bad hey? O.K., let's call an IFR fast course. Any
comments?
Dave Leikam
40496
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: C Smith
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 4:34 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: IFR
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 10:15 AM
To: matronics
Subject: RV10-List: IFR
How about the IFR crash courses?
Ummm. No pun intended right????
;-D
CS
Dave Leikam
40496
do not archive
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: tailcone rivets |
I should have asked this question much sooner, thanks for the replies!
Dave Leikam
40496
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 3:45 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
>
> I recommend back riveting as much as you possibly can. It avoids scuffs
> on
> the outside metal and it is much easier to get a perfect shop head.
>
> Do not archive.
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse@itecusa.org
> www.itecusa.org
> Cell: 352-427-0285
> Fax: 815-377-3694
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stovall Todd Lt
> Col AF/A4RX
> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 1:46 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
>
> <Todd.Stovall@pentagon.af.mil>
>
> All,
> After reading all of the posts to this thread, are most folks
> backriveting the tailcone skins vs bucking with a flush set, or did I
> misunderstand some of the posts? Using the backrivet set with a bucking
> bar never occurred to me. Although I'm only on my HS (ready to rivet),
> the tailcone is close enough for me to begin thinking about it.
>
> Thanks,
> Todd
> #40631
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 1:15 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
>
> --> <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>
> Never had to get inside. Used two saw horses and kept flipping the
> tailcone on its side while I accessed through the open hole in the side
> or top. Open hole is the forward tailcone skin off. Leaning in, I was
> able to use the gun while my partener was on the outside with the
> bucking bar.
>
> Put down a lot of foam to protect your knees from the ground. The
> flatness of the tailcone side skins allows all this to happen by sitting
> on the saw horses. Becareful when stretching inside while standing, to
> get at the rivets towards the back, take breaks, otherwise you might get
> a bad cramp in your calves and hamstrings.
>
> John G.
>
>
>>From: "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM@wi.rr.com>
>>To: "matronics" <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
>>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 07:34:58 -0600
>>
>>Anyone have any good advice as to how to get at the top skin tailcone
>>rivets? No one in my family is small. I also worry about climbing
>>around in there and bending or denting somthing. Words from the wiser?
>>
>>Dave Leikam
>>40496
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Setting trailing edges of control surfaces |
I am approaching time to order the ProSeal for my Emp kit but now I am wondering
if I already have a product on hand that will perform this functionality.
I have about a pint of 3M Scotch-Weld 2216 Epoxy adhesive left after I used it to attach my bubble canopy to the 4130 frame on my Skybolt. The can is only 3 months old and will not last another year. It has a 90 minute working time and I have used it several times and have some good experience with it. It is a Highly flexible and provides a high-strength bond. For more info Ref www.mcmaster.com/ and under Find Products enter 3M. Under it selections will show, choose 3M 2216 Adhesives.
It is hard overnight and reaches full strength in 7 days. This would provide very
good bonding of the wedge with the skins and allow the clecos to be removed
the next day. I would probably wait several days before riveting.
Has anyone else used something like this and what is your experience and/or thoughts?
I am thinking that since I have it and it will go bad probably before
I can use all of it up why not use it.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N410GB reserved)
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82326#82326
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Setting trailing edges of control surfaces |
Ok this is all in the archives!! But again there is no reason I can think of
except if you want to add weight ......to put any whatever in there!! Vans
say in the manual to use adheasive but some of the engineers disagreed!!
There is no structual need to put any glue there. An engineer at Vans
showed me how to rivet a trailing edge ......The method is a metal plate as
long as the trailing edge to sit the skin on. Put all the rivets in with
some riveters tape. Put a weight on a couple of spots. Start one end and go
to the next. Dead straight!!! Took about 3 min Of riveting!! Again dead
straight. Did both elevators ,Rudder this way and no dramas!!
For those that have put glue in thats great and will be fine I am just
pointing out another way.
Chris 388
----- Original Message -----
From: "Les Kearney" <kearney@shaw.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 7:23 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Setting trailing edges of control surfaces
Hi Gary
As I understand the process, it is to hold the wedge in place for riveting
as well as sets up the alignment of the trailing edges so that they are
straight. If you merely clecoed the wedges in place and riveted, you would
likely end up with a bend / bow etc in the trailing edge. The Van's method
of gluing and weighting the edges allows the alignment to be "set" by the
adhesive in preparation for riveting.
I am very happy with the results I have achieved using angle aluminum and
the PL2000 adhesive.
Cheers
Les Kearney
RV10 - # 40643 - Lost in the empennage
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of orchidman
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 11:38 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Setting trailing edges of control surfaces
kearney(at)shaw.ca wrote:
>
> Given the purpose of the adhesive it .....
>
I am new at this, can you please expand on the 'purpose'. Is it to hold the
wedge in place while riviting, or seal it from water etc.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N410GB reserved)
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82262#82262
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: tailcone rivets |
John,
Shooting from the inside, did you use the back rivet set?
David Maib
#40559
tailcone
On Dec 18, 2006, at 12:14 PM, John Gonzalez wrote:
<indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
Never had to get inside. Used two saw horses and kept flipping the
tailcone on its side while I accessed through the open hole in the
side or top. Open hole is the forward tailcone skin off. Leaning
in, I was able to use the gun while my partener was on the outside
with the bucking bar.
Put down a lot of foam to protect your knees from the ground. The
flatness of the tailcone side skins allows all this to happen by
sitting on the saw horses. Becareful when stretching inside while
standing, to get at the rivets towards the back, take breaks,
otherwise you might get a bad cramp in your calves and hamstrings.
John G.
> From: "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM@wi.rr.com>
> To: "matronics" <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 07:34:58 -0600
>
> Anyone have any good advice as to how to get at the top skin
> tailcone rivets? No one in my family is small. I also worry about
> climbing around in there and bending or denting somthing. Words
> from the wiser?
>
> Dave Leikam
> 40496
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Setting trailing edges of control surfaces |
We!! can!! understand!! without!! all!! the!! punctuation!!
(The preceeding was humor!! for the humor-impared!!)
!!
-Jim 40384 (Right bottom wing skins DONE !! !! !!)
do not archive !!
Chris , Susie Darcy wrote:
> <VHMUM@bigpond.com>
>
> Ok this is all in the archives!! But again there is no reason I can
> think of except if you want to add weight ......to put any whatever in
> there!! Vans say in the manual to use adheasive but some of the
> engineers disagreed!! There is no structual need to put any glue
> there. An engineer at Vans showed me how to rivet a trailing edge
> ......The method is a metal plate as long as the trailing edge to sit
> the skin on. Put all the rivets in with some riveters tape. Put a
> weight on a couple of spots. Start one end and go to the next. Dead
> straight!!! Took about 3 min Of riveting!! Again dead straight. Did
> both elevators ,Rudder this way and no dramas!!
> For those that have put glue in thats great and will be fine I am just
> pointing out another way.
>
> Chris 388
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Les Kearney" <kearney@shaw.ca>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 7:23 AM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Setting trailing edges of control surfaces
>
>
> Hi Gary
>
> As I understand the process, it is to hold the wedge in place for
> riveting
> as well as sets up the alignment of the trailing edges so that they are
> straight. If you merely clecoed the wedges in place and riveted, you
> would
> likely end up with a bend / bow etc in the trailing edge. The Van's
> method
> of gluing and weighting the edges allows the alignment to be "set" by the
> adhesive in preparation for riveting.
>
> I am very happy with the results I have achieved using angle aluminum and
> the PL2000 adhesive.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les Kearney
> RV10 - # 40643 - Lost in the empennage
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of orchidman
> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 11:38 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Setting trailing edges of control surfaces
>
>
>
> kearney(at)shaw.ca wrote:
>
>>
>> Given the purpose of the adhesive it .....
>>
>
> I am new at this, can you please expand on the 'purpose'. Is it to
> hold the
> wedge in place while riviting, or seal it from water etc.
>
> --------
> Gary Blankenbiller
> RV10 - # 40674
> (N410GB reserved)
> do not archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82262#82262
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Setting trailing edges of control surfaces |
Sorry you wont hear another peep out of me
do not archive
Chris 388
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Hein" <n8vim@arrl.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Setting trailing edges of control surfaces
>
> We!! can!! understand!! without!! all!! the!! punctuation!!
> (The preceeding was humor!! for the humor-impared!!)
> !!
>
> -Jim 40384 (Right bottom wing skins DONE !! !! !!)
>
> do not archive !!
>
> Chris , Susie Darcy wrote:
>
>> <VHMUM@bigpond.com>
>>
>> Ok this is all in the archives!! But again there is no reason I can think
>> of except if you want to add weight ......to put any whatever in there!!
>> Vans say in the manual to use adheasive but some of the engineers
>> disagreed!! There is no structual need to put any glue there. An
>> engineer at Vans showed me how to rivet a trailing edge ......The method
>> is a metal plate as long as the trailing edge to sit the skin on. Put all
>> the rivets in with some riveters tape. Put a weight on a couple of spots.
>> Start one end and go to the next. Dead straight!!! Took about 3 min Of
>> riveting!! Again dead straight. Did both elevators ,Rudder this way and
>> no dramas!!
>> For those that have put glue in thats great and will be fine I am just
>> pointing out another way.
>>
>> Chris 388
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Les Kearney" <kearney@shaw.ca>
>> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 7:23 AM
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Setting trailing edges of control surfaces
>>
>>
>> Hi Gary
>>
>> As I understand the process, it is to hold the wedge in place for
>> riveting
>> as well as sets up the alignment of the trailing edges so that they are
>> straight. If you merely clecoed the wedges in place and riveted, you
>> would
>> likely end up with a bend / bow etc in the trailing edge. The Van's
>> method
>> of gluing and weighting the edges allows the alignment to be "set" by the
>> adhesive in preparation for riveting.
>>
>> I am very happy with the results I have achieved using angle aluminum and
>> the PL2000 adhesive.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Les Kearney
>> RV10 - # 40643 - Lost in the empennage
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of orchidman
>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 11:38 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Setting trailing edges of control surfaces
>>
>>
>>
>> kearney(at)shaw.ca wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Given the purpose of the adhesive it .....
>>>
>>
>> I am new at this, can you please expand on the 'purpose'. Is it to hold
>> the
>> wedge in place while riviting, or seal it from water etc.
>>
>> --------
>> Gary Blankenbiller
>> RV10 - # 40674
>> (N410GB reserved)
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82262#82262
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Setting trailing edges of control surfaces |
Just yankin your chain :)
-Jim 40384
Chris , Susie Darcy wrote:
> <VHMUM@bigpond.com>
>
> Sorry you wont hear another peep out of me
>
> do not archive
>
> Chris 388
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Hein" <n8vim@arrl.net>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 11:31 AM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Setting trailing edges of control surfaces
>
>
>>
>> We!! can!! understand!! without!! all!! the!! punctuation!!
>> (The preceeding was humor!! for the humor-impared!!)
>> !!
>>
>> -Jim 40384 (Right bottom wing skins DONE !! !! !!)
>>
>> do not archive !!
>>
>> Chris , Susie Darcy wrote:
>>
>>> <VHMUM@bigpond.com>
>>>
>>> Ok this is all in the archives!! But again there is no reason I can
>>> think of except if you want to add weight ......to put any whatever
>>> in there!! Vans say in the manual to use adheasive but some of the
>>> engineers disagreed!! There is no structual need to put any glue
>>> there. An engineer at Vans showed me how to rivet a trailing edge
>>> ......The method is a metal plate as long as the trailing edge to
>>> sit the skin on. Put all the rivets in with some riveters tape. Put
>>> a weight on a couple of spots. Start one end and go to the next.
>>> Dead straight!!! Took about 3 min Of riveting!! Again dead
>>> straight. Did both elevators ,Rudder this way and no dramas!!
>>> For those that have put glue in thats great and will be fine I am
>>> just pointing out another way.
>>>
>>> Chris 388
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Les Kearney" <kearney@shaw.ca>
>>> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 7:23 AM
>>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Setting trailing edges of control surfaces
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Gary
>>>
>>> As I understand the process, it is to hold the wedge in place for
>>> riveting
>>> as well as sets up the alignment of the trailing edges so that they are
>>> straight. If you merely clecoed the wedges in place and riveted, you
>>> would
>>> likely end up with a bend / bow etc in the trailing edge. The Van's
>>> method
>>> of gluing and weighting the edges allows the alignment to be "set"
>>> by the
>>> adhesive in preparation for riveting.
>>>
>>> I am very happy with the results I have achieved using angle
>>> aluminum and
>>> the PL2000 adhesive.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Les Kearney
>>> RV10 - # 40643 - Lost in the empennage
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of orchidman
>>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 11:38 AM
>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Setting trailing edges of control surfaces
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> kearney(at)shaw.ca wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Given the purpose of the adhesive it .....
>>>>
>>>
>>> I am new at this, can you please expand on the 'purpose'. Is it to
>>> hold the
>>> wedge in place while riviting, or seal it from water etc.
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Gary Blankenbiller
>>> RV10 - # 40674
>>> (N410GB reserved)
>>> do not archive
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82262#82262
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | RE: tailcone rivets |
John Jessen recorded how I did mine. I looked on his website, but just
couldn't find the pics!
I used a back rivet plate; flipped the cone over on it's top and made sure
it was on the plate. Because the cone overhung my table, I could stand in
the hole of the missing forward top skin and lean into the cone. To be sure
I was flat on the back rivet plate, I used a 1" (or so) round stick-on
bubble level laid right next to the rivet I was going to smash. Because it
was a little bit of a tight fit between the stringers, I could lean left or
right and the cone would rotate until the bubble was centered. I don't
recall having to drill out any of the rivets set with this method.
Hopefully, John will pipe in and direct you to his website where this
technique is documented.
Bruce Breckenridge
40018 Wings
Message 32
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| Subject: | door latched security system |
I spoke with Vans this week and discussed the latching system and the
warning lights. They indicated that the two incidents of the convertible
RV10 both occurred on the same airplane before and then after the light
system was installed. I am debating whether to install a Vans modified
system or just depend on the checklist and physical feel of the pins.
For flying 10s: have you installed the warning light system? Opinion of
its usefulness? For building 10s: are you installing? I have run the
wiring and designed a simpler system whereby a light for each side is
red when the door is unlatched (without all the automotive reversing
relays).
Message 33
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| Subject: | door latched security system |
I would say that it is quite useful. If/When somebody else ever flies your
plane, they won't understand how important it is (no matter how you stress
it) to check the back of the doors. Seeing the lights on, though, will
automatically let them know that something is wrong. Ask me how I know!
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 8:40 PM
Subject: RV10-List: door latched security system
I spoke with Vans this week and discussed the latching system and the
warning lights. They indicated that the two incidents of the convertible
RV10 both occurred on the same airplane before and then after the light
system was installed. I am debating whether to install a Vans modified
system or just depend on the checklist and physical feel of the pins. For
flying 10s: have you installed the warning light system? Opinion of its
usefulness? For building 10s: are you installing? I have run the wiring and
designed a simpler system whereby a light for each side is red when the door
is unlatched (without all the automotive reversing relays).
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Re: door latched security system |
I installed all 4 magnetic switches and connected them in series to my
Advanced Flight Systems AF-2500 engine monitor. Part of my checklist is to ensure
the doors are closed both manually and by ensuring the "DOORS" indicator is
extinguished on the display. If I forget, it gives an audible warning "CANOPY"
when the RPM exceeds 1500. Hearing that would be a good reason to abort a
takeoff.
I'm happy with the way it works. I set the magnets just right: the system
caught a passenger who had properly engaged the door latch, but had not locked
the handle all the way down. Overall, it was easy because of my engine
monitoring system, however, I wasn't very interested in wiring up that relay system
they sent.
I used one of the unused warning lights as a stall warning light. I'd
noticed Van's had done that in N220RV. The light sits directly over my PFD and
comes on along with the supplied stall buzzer.
Jim
40134
In a message dated 12/18/2006 8:46:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dlm46007@cox.net writes:
I spoke with Vans this week and discussed the latching system and the
warning lights. They indicated that the two incidents of the convertible RV10
both
occurred on the same airplane before and then after the light system was
installed. I am debating whether to install a Vans modified system or just depend
on the checklist and physical feel of the pins. For flying 10s: have you
installed the warning light system? Opinion of its usefulness? For building 10s:
are you installing? I have run the wiring and designed a simpler system
whereby a light for each side is red when the door is unlatched (without all the
automotive reversing relays).
(http://www.buildersbooks.com/)
(http://www.homebuilthelp.com/)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List)
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
_http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew)
Message 35
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|
You could call it a condensed IFR course. as in condensed water vapor.
On 12/18/06, Dave Leikam <DAVELEIKAM@wi.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> Yeah that sounds bad hey? O.K., let's call an IFR fast course. Any
> comments?
>
> Dave Leikam
> 40496
> do not archive
>
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Re: door latched security system |
I would most definitely recommend it. Vans door warning is very
sensitive and warns you if the door latch is even SLIGHTLY moved out
of it's engagement position.
do not archive
Rob Kermanj
On Dec 18, 2006, at 8:39 PM, David McNeill wrote:
> I spoke with Vans this week and discussed the latching system and
> the warning lights. They indicated that the two incidents of the
> convertible RV10 both occurred on the same airplane before and then
> after the light system was installed. I am debating whether to
> install a Vans modified system or just depend on the checklist and
> physical feel of the pins. For flying 10s: have you installed the
> warning light system? Opinion of its usefulness? For building 10s:
> are you installing? I have run the wiring and designed a simpler
> system whereby a light for each side is red when the door is
> unlatched (without all the automotive reversing relays).
> ============================================================ _-
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List_-
> ===========================================================
>
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | Re: tailcone rivets |
Stand the thing up and stand inside it. Back rivet all but a couple of
rivets. My fifteen year old son on the outside with the bar and me on
the inside driving rivits.
Finished the cone tonight. Happy:)
Thanks for the tip Jesse.
Dave Leikam
40496
empanage assembly!
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Maib" <dmaib@mac.com>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
>
> John,
>
> Shooting from the inside, did you use the back rivet set?
>
> David Maib
> #40559
> tailcone
>
> On Dec 18, 2006, at 12:14 PM, John Gonzalez wrote:
>
> <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>
> Never had to get inside. Used two saw horses and kept flipping the
> tailcone on its side while I accessed through the open hole in the
> side or top. Open hole is the forward tailcone skin off. Leaning
> in, I was able to use the gun while my partener was on the outside
> with the bucking bar.
>
> Put down a lot of foam to protect your knees from the ground. The
> flatness of the tailcone side skins allows all this to happen by
> sitting on the saw horses. Becareful when stretching inside while
> standing, to get at the rivets towards the back, take breaks,
> otherwise you might get a bad cramp in your calves and hamstrings.
>
> John G.
>
>
>> From: "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM@wi.rr.com>
>> To: "matronics" <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
>> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 07:34:58 -0600
>>
>> Anyone have any good advice as to how to get at the top skin
>> tailcone rivets? No one in my family is small. I also worry about
>> climbing around in there and bending or denting somthing. Words
>> from the wiser?
>>
>> Dave Leikam
>> 40496
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Re: tailcone rivets |
I should have said, "I never placed my weight inside." The saw horses held
it upside down on the flat spots on the rear where the HS sits and in the
front where the longerons are without the most forward top skin on. Also
lay it on it side, right or left because the sides are flat.
Was on my knees, up inside, like a pup tent, shooting up or out to the side
while the freind was on the outside. Yes, back riveted everything I could.
I got pretty contorted, back, neck and thighs get twisted and lower legs
fell asleep a few times.
I have tried throughout the project to minimize putting any weight on the
parts before complete assembly into a rigid structure. Never want to build
in a warp albeit unlikely with all the indexed dimples and clecoes, but why
risk it. Plus each bulkhead is so flimsy by itself, but once together with
everything else, it's one strong unit.
Make sure you and your helper are on the same rivet!!!!! They cover the
rivet with the plate or bucking bar, on the outside and they say,"Ready"
they you put the back rivet gun tip on the rivet and say" Ready" then they
say, "Go"
Lower the pressure and a quick fire and never fire again, unless you let
them know by going through the same ritual.
The guy that was hunting with Chenny taught me this technique after his
incident. Unlikely that you will have an accident if you follow this plan.
Alcoholic beverages are also not a good thing before hunting, opps, I mean
riveting.
John G.
>From: David Maib <dmaib@mac.com>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 18:26:12 -0600
>
>
>John,
>
>Shooting from the inside, did you use the back rivet set?
>
>David Maib
>#40559
>tailcone
>
>On Dec 18, 2006, at 12:14 PM, John Gonzalez wrote:
>
>
>Never had to get inside. Used two saw horses and kept flipping the
>tailcone on its side while I accessed through the open hole in the side or
>top. Open hole is the forward tailcone skin off. Leaning in, I was able
>to use the gun while my partener was on the outside with the bucking bar.
>
>Put down a lot of foam to protect your knees from the ground. The
>flatness of the tailcone side skins allows all this to happen by sitting
>on the saw horses. Becareful when stretching inside while standing, to get
>at the rivets towards the back, take breaks, otherwise you might get a bad
>cramp in your calves and hamstrings.
>
>John G.
>
>
>>From: "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM@wi.rr.com>
>>To: "matronics" <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
>>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 07:34:58 -0600
>>
>>Anyone have any good advice as to how to get at the top skin tailcone
>>rivets? No one in my family is small. I also worry about climbing
>>around in there and bending or denting somthing. Words from the wiser?
>>
>>Dave Leikam
>>40496
>
>
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | door latched security system |
Can someone explain what happened when the door was not latched correctly.
What did the door do? What did the plane do?
JOhn G.
>From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: door latched security system
>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 21:21:40 -0500
>
>I would say that it is quite useful. If/When somebody else ever flies your
>plane, they won't understand how important it is (no matter how you stress
>it) to check the back of the doors. Seeing the lights on, though, will
>automatically let them know that something is wrong. Ask me how I know!
>
>
>Do not archive.
>
>
>Jesse Saint
>
>I-TEC, Inc.
>
>jesse@itecusa.org
>
>www.itecusa.org
>
>Cell: 352-427-0285
>
>Fax: 815-377-3694
>
> _____
>
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
>Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 8:40 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: door latched security system
>
>
>I spoke with Vans this week and discussed the latching system and the
>warning lights. They indicated that the two incidents of the convertible
>RV10 both occurred on the same airplane before and then after the light
>system was installed. I am debating whether to install a Vans modified
>system or just depend on the checklist and physical feel of the pins. For
>flying 10s: have you installed the warning light system? Opinion of its
>usefulness? For building 10s: are you installing? I have run the wiring and
>designed a simpler system whereby a light for each side is red when the
>door
>is unlatched (without all the automotive reversing relays).
>
>
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Re: tailcone rivets |
Every bit of this tailcone riveting discussion is being digested by this
builder despite the archives. Thanks! and HA HA!
Keep it up.
John Gonzalez wrote:
>
> I should have said, "I never placed my weight inside." The saw horses
> held it upside down on the flat spots on the rear where the HS sits
> and in the front where the longerons are without the most forward top
> skin on. Also lay it on it side, right or left because the sides are
> flat.
>
> Was on my knees, up inside, like a pup tent, shooting up or out to the
> side while the freind was on the outside. Yes, back riveted
> everything I could. I got pretty contorted, back, neck and thighs get
> twisted and lower legs fell asleep a few times.
>
> I have tried throughout the project to minimize putting any weight on
> the parts before complete assembly into a rigid structure. Never want
> to build in a warp albeit unlikely with all the indexed dimples and
> clecoes, but why risk it. Plus each bulkhead is so flimsy by itself,
> but once together with everything else, it's one strong unit.
>
> Make sure you and your helper are on the same rivet!!!!! They cover
> the rivet with the plate or bucking bar, on the outside and they
> say,"Ready" they you put the back rivet gun tip on the rivet and say"
> Ready" then they say, "Go"
>
> Lower the pressure and a quick fire and never fire again, unless you
> let them know by going through the same ritual.
>
> The guy that was hunting with Chenny taught me this technique after
> his incident. Unlikely that you will have an accident if you follow
> this plan. Alcoholic beverages are also not a good thing before
> hunting, opps, I mean riveting.
>
> John G.
>
>
>> From: David Maib <dmaib@mac.com>
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
>> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 18:26:12 -0600
>>
>>
>> John,
>>
>> Shooting from the inside, did you use the back rivet set?
>>
>> David Maib
>> #40559
>> tailcone
>>
>> On Dec 18, 2006, at 12:14 PM, John Gonzalez wrote:
>>
>> <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>>
>> Never had to get inside. Used two saw horses and kept flipping the
>> tailcone on its side while I accessed through the open hole in the
>> side or top. Open hole is the forward tailcone skin off. Leaning
>> in, I was able to use the gun while my partener was on the outside
>> with the bucking bar.
>>
>> Put down a lot of foam to protect your knees from the ground. The
>> flatness of the tailcone side skins allows all this to happen by
>> sitting on the saw horses. Becareful when stretching inside while
>> standing, to get at the rivets towards the back, take breaks,
>> otherwise you might get a bad cramp in your calves and hamstrings.
>>
>> John G.
>>
>>
>>> From: "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM@wi.rr.com>
>>> To: "matronics" <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>>> Subject: RV10-List: tailcone rivets
>>> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 07:34:58 -0600
>>>
>>> Anyone have any good advice as to how to get at the top skin
>>> tailcone rivets? No one in my family is small. I also worry about
>>> climbing around in there and bending or denting somthing. Words
>>> from the wiser?
>>>
>>> Dave Leikam
>>> 40496
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 41
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|
| Subject: | Re: door latched security system |
the door departed the aircraft on takeoff and the aircraft was flown around
the pattern and landed. Very little damage as I understand it and the door
was returned to the aircraft. The Van's kit was distributed to builders and
installed on said aircraft. My understanding was the lights worked as
advertised but the pilot took off again and lost the door again. My guess is
that the door is warped and difficult to insert the rear latch pin;
apparently extends outside the door frame. Perhaps someone else has more
info?
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 10:33 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door latched security system
>
>
> Can someone explain what happened when the door was not latched correctly.
> What did the door do? What did the plane do?
>
> JOhn G.
>
>>From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
>>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: RE: RV10-List: door latched security system
>>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 21:21:40 -0500
>>
>>I would say that it is quite useful. If/When somebody else ever flies
>>your
>>plane, they won't understand how important it is (no matter how you stress
>>it) to check the back of the doors. Seeing the lights on, though, will
>>automatically let them know that something is wrong. Ask me how I know!
>>
>>
>>
>>Do not archive.
>>
>>
>>
>>Jesse Saint
>>
>>I-TEC, Inc.
>>
>>jesse@itecusa.org
>>
>>www.itecusa.org
>>
>>Cell: 352-427-0285
>>
>>Fax: 815-377-3694
>>
>> _____
>>
>>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
>>Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 8:40 PM
>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: RV10-List: door latched security system
>>
>>
>>
>>I spoke with Vans this week and discussed the latching system and the
>>warning lights. They indicated that the two incidents of the convertible
>>RV10 both occurred on the same airplane before and then after the light
>>system was installed. I am debating whether to install a Vans modified
>>system or just depend on the checklist and physical feel of the pins. For
>>flying 10s: have you installed the warning light system? Opinion of its
>>usefulness? For building 10s: are you installing? I have run the wiring
>>and
>>designed a simpler system whereby a light for each side is red when the
>>door
>>is unlatched (without all the automotive reversing relays).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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