Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:05 AM - Re: Stall Warning and/or AOA (Michael Wellenzohn)
2. 03:41 AM - Re: door latched security system - Door Closer (Russell Daves)
3. 04:33 AM - Re: door latched security system - Door Closer (Tim Olson)
4. 04:33 AM - Re: door latched security system - Door Closer (Tim Olson)
5. 05:15 AM - Re: door latched security system - Door Closer (David McNeill)
6. 05:28 AM - MT Prop? (Eric Parlow)
7. 05:52 AM - Re: MT Prop? (John W. Cox)
8. 06:37 AM - Re: door latched security system - Door Closer (Tom Deutsch)
9. 06:37 AM - Re: MT Prop? (Mark Ritter)
10. 06:38 AM - Re: door latched security system - Door Closer (Tom Deutsch)
11. 06:41 AM - Re: MT Prop? (Rick)
12. 06:57 AM - Re: Door latch and Weld-On for windows (Rick)
13. 07:07 AM - Re: door latched security system - Door Closer (Rick)
14. 07:32 AM - Re: door latched security system - Door Closer (Tom Deutsch)
15. 07:45 AM - door latched security system - Door Closer (linn Walters)
16. 08:36 AM - Carpet Install (Tom Deutsch)
17. 08:36 AM - Re: door latched security system - Door Closer (Jesse Saint)
18. 08:47 AM - Re: door latched security system - Door Closer (Rick)
19. 08:49 AM - Re: Carpet Install (Rick)
20. 09:01 AM - Transition Training (Jesse Saint)
21. 09:13 AM - Re: Carpet Install (Jesse Saint)
22. 09:16 AM - Re: door latched security system - Door Closer (John Gonzalez)
23. 09:30 AM - Re: door latched security system - Door Closer (John Gonzalez)
24. 09:34 AM - Re: Transition Training (Tim Olson)
25. 10:23 AM - Re: Carpet Install (Les Kearney)
26. 10:42 AM - New RV Builder ()
27. 10:47 AM - Re: Transition Training (Steven Roberts)
28. 10:52 AM - Re: Carpet Install (Tim Olson)
29. 11:11 AM - Trutrak Flatpack dimensions? (Chris Johnston)
30. 11:26 AM - Re: Trutrak Flatpack dimensions? (Deems Davis)
31. 11:38 AM - Re: Trutrak Flatpack dimensions? (Tim Olson)
32. 11:49 AM - Re: Transition Training (Stovall Todd Lt Col AF/A4RX)
33. 11:49 AM - Skin Edge Deburring (eagerlee)
34. 12:32 PM - Re: Carpet Install (John Gonzalez)
35. 12:33 PM - Re: door latched security system - Door Closer (linn Walters)
36. 01:39 PM - Re: New RV Builder (Michael D Chase)
37. 01:53 PM - Re: Re: New RV Builder ()
38. 02:07 PM - Re: tailcone rivets (Jay Brinkmeyer)
39. 03:11 PM - switches? (Chris Johnston)
40. 03:28 PM - Re: MT Prop? (now Turbo) (Eric Parlow)
41. 03:31 PM - Re: switches? (Rene Felker)
42. 04:22 PM - Re: switches? (Noel & Yoshie Simmons)
43. 04:49 PM - Re: switches? (SteinAir, Inc.)
44. 05:56 PM - Re: switches? (Tim Olson)
45. 05:59 PM - Re: switches? (Tim Olson)
46. 06:36 PM - Re: Transition Training (DejaVu)
47. 06:38 PM - Re: Carpet Install (DejaVu)
48. 06:51 PM - Re: door latched security system - Door Closer (John Erickson)
49. 07:19 PM - Re: door latched security system - Door Closer (wvu@ameritel.net)
50. 07:58 PM - Re: door latched security system - Inflatable Seals? (Eric Parlow)
51. 08:00 PM - Re: switches? (Jesse Saint)
52. 08:37 PM - Re: door latched security system - Door Closer (Rick)
53. 10:11 PM - Re: Carpet Install (Steven DiNieri)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Stall Warning and/or AOA |
Thanks you guys for the input.
Michael
do nor archive
--------
RV-10 builder (wings)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82593#82593
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: door latched security system - Door Closer |
I put a rear handle on my doors so it was easier to pull in the rear
part of the door before closing the door handle. I used rivnuts into
the inside door frame and made a cloth handle with grommets in each end
and screwed it on. Works great to make sure the rear part of the door
can be pulled in tight enough to allow both the front and rear pins to
slide into the frame.
I also as part of the pre-flight manually check both the pilots door and
passenger door pins are fully seated by feel.
My pilots door DID NOT come off during one of my test flights, however
it came open on takeoff and I was lucky enough to have made a long pull
down loop strap that I was able to grab with my left hand while making
sure I was still flying the airplane and hold the door down enough to
keep it from coming completely off while I advised the tower I had a
problem and needed to come back around for landing.
I made a somewhat normal close in downwind, base and final, landed and
had to replace a bent hinge and do a little fiberglass work around the
rear hinge which had pulled out.
It is imperative to manually check each pin, front and rear, on each
door as part of the pre-departure check list.
The doors are in my opinion the weakest part of the Van's RV-10 design,
but it is without a doubt the best airplane I have every flown in my
1500+ hours (owned 7, including an RV-6A).
Russ Daves
N710RV First Flight 7/28/06
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: door latched security system - Door Closer |
I don't want to make you a bad guy Russ....but get a feel for this
with an honest question.
Were you very diligent about checking the pin before this happened,
or did this incident really set you in motion for doing it as
part of a good preflight check?
I'm just not yet installed on the warning kit, but I really don't
think I could trust myself to simply rely on a latch warning
kit any more than I could be trusted to check the pins. I heard
way back about a door coming off, so I never really had a period
where I wasn't checking the pins...but not everyone had heard these
stories before, so it may be different for them. I'm just
trying to get a feel for how it was for you.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - 180 hrs
Russell Daves wrote:
> I put a rear handle on my doors so it was easier to pull in the rear
> part of the door before closing the door handle. I used rivnuts into
> the inside door frame and made a cloth handle with grommets in each end
> and screwed it on. Works great to make sure the rear part of the door
> can be pulled in tight enough to allow both the front and rear pins to
> slide into the frame.
>
> I also as part of the pre-flight manually check both the pilots door and
> passenger door pins are fully seated by feel.
>
> My pilots door DID NOT come off during one of my test flights, however
> it came open on takeoff and I was lucky enough to have made a long pull
> down loop strap that I was able to grab with my left hand while making
> sure I was still flying the airplane and hold the door down enough to
> keep it from coming completely off while I advised the tower I had a
> problem and needed to come back around for landing.
>
> I made a somewhat normal close in downwind, base and final, landed and
> had to replace a bent hinge and do a little fiberglass work around the
> rear hinge which had pulled out.
>
> It is imperative to manually check each pin, front and rear, on each
> door as part of the pre-departure check list.
>
> The doors are in my opinion the weakest part of the Van's RV-10 design,
> but it is without a doubt the best airplane I have every flown in my
> 1500+ hours (owned 7, including an RV-6A).
>
> Russ Daves
> N710RV First Flight 7/28/06
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: door latched security system - Door Closer |
PS: That fabric handle sounds like the excellent way to go, fastened
with rivnuts. I'm going to see if later I can accomplish the same
thing easily.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Russell Daves wrote:
> I put a rear handle on my doors so it was easier to pull in the rear
> part of the door before closing the door handle. I used rivnuts into
> the inside door frame and made a cloth handle with grommets in each end
> and screwed it on. Works great to make sure the rear part of the door
> can be pulled in tight enough to allow both the front and rear pins to
> slide into the frame.
>
> I also as part of the pre-flight manually check both the pilots door and
> passenger door pins are fully seated by feel.
>
> My pilots door DID NOT come off during one of my test flights, however
> it came open on takeoff and I was lucky enough to have made a long pull
> down loop strap that I was able to grab with my left hand while making
> sure I was still flying the airplane and hold the door down enough to
> keep it from coming completely off while I advised the tower I had a
> problem and needed to come back around for landing.
>
> I made a somewhat normal close in downwind, base and final, landed and
> had to replace a bent hinge and do a little fiberglass work around the
> rear hinge which had pulled out.
>
> It is imperative to manually check each pin, front and rear, on each
> door as part of the pre-departure check list.
>
> The doors are in my opinion the weakest part of the Van's RV-10 design,
> but it is without a doubt the best airplane I have every flown in my
> 1500+ hours (owned 7, including an RV-6A).
>
> Russ Daves
> N710RV First Flight 7/28/06
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: door latched security system - Door Closer |
One other thing I saw a small knob that could be threaded into a single
hardpoint; just something to grab to pull the door fully in before using
the door handle.
----- Original Message -----
From: Russell Daves
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 4:40 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: door latched security system - Door Closer
I put a rear handle on my doors so it was easier to pull in the rear
part of the door before closing the door handle. I used rivnuts into
the inside door frame and made a cloth handle with grommets in each end
and screwed it on. Works great to make sure the rear part of the door
can be pulled in tight enough to allow both the front and rear pins to
slide into the frame.
I also as part of the pre-flight manually check both the pilots door
and passenger door pins are fully seated by feel.
My pilots door DID NOT come off during one of my test flights, however
it came open on takeoff and I was lucky enough to have made a long pull
down loop strap that I was able to grab with my left hand while making
sure I was still flying the airplane and hold the door down enough to
keep it from coming completely off while I advised the tower I had a
problem and needed to come back around for landing.
I made a somewhat normal close in downwind, base and final, landed and
had to replace a bent hinge and do a little fiberglass work around the
rear hinge which had pulled out.
It is imperative to manually check each pin, front and rear, on each
door as part of the pre-departure check list.
The doors are in my opinion the weakest part of the Van's RV-10
design, but it is without a doubt the best airplane I have every flown
in my 1500+ hours (owned 7, including an RV-6A).
Russ Daves
N710RV First Flight 7/28/06
Message 6
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I'm considering buying the 3B MT prop from Van's.
Primary reason is the lower weight (47.7 lbs) will help off-set the weight
of the turbo.
Any feedback on how your experience was with MT/Van's/Prop Assy Shop?
Suggestions or other alternatives?
Also it's a 12 week lead time + assembly time :-(
ERic--
40014
Message 7
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Eric, which turbo were you going with? How were you dealing with the
lower cowl for distance and heat separation? Is this the same kit that
Rick Conti had for sale?
John Cox
#40600
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Parlow
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 5:28 AM
Subject: RV10-List: MT Prop?
I'm considering buying the 3B MT prop from Van's.
Primary reason is the lower weight (47.7 lbs) will help off-set the
weight
of the turbo.
Any feedback on how your experience was with MT/Van's/Prop Assy Shop?
Suggestions or other alternatives?
Also it's a 12 week lead time + assembly time :-(
ERic--
40014
Message 8
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| Subject: | door latched security system - Door Closer |
Russ, The best thing about your post below is that you first "flew the
plane". I have been in the flight training business for 34 years and
have personal knowledge of several fatalities because of lesser
incidences (lost fuel caps, open baggage doors, ect.) GOOD JOB!!!!! To
the rest of us NEVER, NEVER quit flying the plane! Even if a door does
come off.
Tom Deutsch, 40545
Waiting to paint
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: door latched security system - Door Closer
One other thing I saw a small knob that could be threaded into a single
hardpoint; just something to grab to pull the door fully in before using
the door handle.
----- Original Message -----
From: Russell Daves <mailto:dav1111@cox.net>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 4:40 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: door latched security system - Door
Closer
I put a rear handle on my doors so it was easier to pull in the
rear part of the door before closing the door handle. I used rivnuts
into the inside door frame and made a cloth handle with grommets in each
end and screwed it on. Works great to make sure the rear part of the
door can be pulled in tight enough to allow both the front and rear pins
to slide into the frame.
I also as part of the pre-flight manually check both the pilots
door and passenger door pins are fully seated by feel.
My pilots door DID NOT come off during one of my test flights,
however it came open on takeoff and I was lucky enough to have made a
long pull down loop strap that I was able to grab with my left hand
while making sure I was still flying the airplane and hold the door down
enough to keep it from coming completely off while I advised the tower I
had a problem and needed to come back around for landing.
I made a somewhat normal close in downwind, base and final,
landed and had to replace a bent hinge and do a little fiberglass work
around the rear hinge which had pulled out.
It is imperative to manually check each pin, front and rear, on
each door as part of the pre-departure check list.
The doors are in my opinion the weakest part of the Van's RV-10
design, but it is without a doubt the best airplane I have every flown
in my 1500+ hours (owned 7, including an RV-6A).
Russ Daves
N710RV First Flight 7/28/06
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
h
ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics
.
com/Navigator?RV10-List
Message 9
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Eric,
I purchased my MT Prop from Jim Ayers at Less Drag. It came fully assembled
and bolted right on. No problems and really think you will be pleased with
the performance of the 3 blades.
Jim was running some group buy specials and my recall is I saved some money
buying from Less Drag.
Mark (N410MR Flying)
>From: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow@hotmail.com>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: MT Prop?
>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 08:28:00 -0500
>
>
>I'm considering buying the 3B MT prop from Van's.
>
>Primary reason is the lower weight (47.7 lbs) will help off-set the weight
>of the turbo.
>
>Any feedback on how your experience was with MT/Van's/Prop Assy Shop?
>
>Suggestions or other alternatives?
>
>Also it's a 12 week lead time + assembly time :-(
>
>ERic--
>40014
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Fixing up the home? Live Search can help
Message 10
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| Subject: | door latched security system - Door Closer |
Were are you guys positioning the rear handle so us with bad shoulders
can reach around and grab it? Photos would help.
Tom Deutsch
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 5:40 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: door latched security system - Door Closer
I put a rear handle on my doors so it was easier to pull in the rear
part of the door before closing the door handle. I used rivnuts into
the inside door frame and made a cloth handle with grommets in each end
and screwed it on. Works great to make sure the rear part of the door
can be pulled in tight enough to allow both the front and rear pins to
slide into the frame.
I also as part of the pre-flight manually check both the pilots door and
passenger door pins are fully seated by feel.
My pilots door DID NOT come off during one of my test flights, however
it came open on takeoff and I was lucky enough to have made a long pull
down loop strap that I was able to grab with my left hand while making
sure I was still flying the airplane and hold the door down enough to
keep it from coming completely off while I advised the tower I had a
problem and needed to come back around for landing.
I made a somewhat normal close in downwind, base and final, landed and
had to replace a bent hinge and do a little fiberglass work around the
rear hinge which had pulled out.
It is imperative to manually check each pin, front and rear, on each
door as part of the pre-departure check list.
The doors are in my opinion the weakest part of the Van's RV-10 design,
but it is without a doubt the best airplane I have every flown in my
1500+ hours (owned 7, including an RV-6A).
Russ Daves
N710RV First Flight 7/28/06
Message 11
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I ordered mine through Jim Ayers at Less Drag Products. 20 week lead time but including
assembly. Jim offered a group buy back a few years (wish I had hopped
on it) and I like the fact I can pick up the phone and get an answer right away.
He is also an authorized MT repair & assembly facility. I know I can get service
after the sale with him. The cost from Van's may seem less but there are
some charges that creep up like customs fees and shipping from several locations.
He will let you know the most cost effective method up front, I have to
pick mine up at customs but it will be fully assembled and I have a port of entry
here in Las Vegas. If your assembler is far from a port of entry, they will
need to pick it up$$, clear and pay customs$$, assemble$$ recrate and ship to
you$$. Lots of variables.
Contact him at the below address, he knows the props very well.
http://www.lessdrag.com
Rick S.
40185
Message 12
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| Subject: | Door latch and Weld-On for windows |
FWIW,
The "real" shelf life is usually a lot farther out than what's on the label. If
I recall, it evolved during product qualifiation for a Mil-Spec. I have some
out of date proseal that works fine, cures a bit slower but still cures. I wouldn't
use it on the tanks or anything else that could leak. Like Michael said,
the fridge works well extend but I was hard pressed to get permission for storage
space next to the TV dinners. For you guys with beer fridges in the shop
that would not be a factor.
Since my job is directly related to safety I have MSDS sheets for all this crap
in my builders log just in case the neighbors kid chews through my Proseal tube
or they find me on the floor frothing at the mouth I can either have or leave
a clue for the paramedics when they arrive.
You can find out the shelf life of most products on the web and sometimes on the
MSDS. Then order you a fresh batch a month out or so.
Just another way to get edumacated during your building process plus it helps eliminate
the, "which is safer for you benzene or MEK?" ;)
Rick S.
40185
do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | door latched security system - Door Closer |
And he makes it part of his passenger brief, to include why it's part of his passenger
brief so the passenger while trying to get a feel for the airplane is
constantly looking at the door while flying with a wrist strap around his wrist
to reel the door back in when it flys open!!! ;)
I was prepared though because I slept the night before at a Marriot Courtyard,
not a Holiday Inn!!
Actually I slept at home, that comment was just for Tom!
Rick S.
40185
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | door latched security system - Door Closer |
Ok now I'm really curious! How did you know of my involvement with
Marriott?
Do not archive
Tom Deutsch,
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 9:08 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door latched security system - Door Closer
And he makes it part of his passenger brief, to include why it's part of
his passenger brief so the passenger while trying to get a feel for the
airplane is constantly looking at the door while flying with a wrist
strap around his wrist to reel the door back in when it flys open!!! ;)
I was prepared though because I slept the night before at a Marriot
Courtyard, not a Holiday Inn!!
Actually I slept at home, that comment was just for Tom!
Rick S.
40185
do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | door latched security system - Door Closer |
I don't know if I have enough knowledge to comment here, so I'll ask a
few questions?
Why not add switches (sub-micro or reed) to the door to detect proper
closure and wire them to disable the starter relay if the door isn't
closed properly?
Is the closure problem related all the door pins or just one or two per
door? (how many pins are there???)
As for the 'dings' when the door is closed with the latch pins out .....
would a piece of stainless embedded in the frame minimize the damage??
Linn ...... getting closer to my own kit!
Message 16
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Does anyone have any good ideas on how to fasten the carpet and still
keep it removable? I planned to use Velcro but it doesn't seem to
stick to the carpet backing well enough.
Tom Deutsch, #40545
Message 17
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| Subject: | door latched security system - Door Closer |
Answers below.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 8:29 AM
Subject: RV10-List: door latched security system - Door Closer
I don't know if I have enough knowledge to comment here, so I'll ask a
few questions?
Why not add switches (sub-micro or reed) to the door to detect proper
closure and wire them to disable the starter relay if the door isn't
closed properly?[Jesse Saint] When it is hot out it is nice to have the door
open when you are taxiing to keep from getting killed by the heat before
takeoff.
Is the closure problem related all the door pins or just one or two per
door? (how many pins are there???)[Jesse Saint] There are front and back
pins. I have seen the front pin not make it in when the back does, but this
is not really the problem, since you can see that easily when you close it.
The back pin is harder to see from the front seat, especially from the same
side as the door is on. From the opposite front seat it is a lot easier to
see/check.
As for the 'dings' when the door is closed with the latch pins out .....
would a piece of stainless embedded in the frame minimize the damage??[Jesse
Saint] Yes, did you see my pictures?
Linn ...... getting closer to my own kit!
--
1:17 PM
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: door latched security system - Door Closer |
Linn,
If you can picture this...the gas strut is located on the aft portion of the door.
With the latch handle on the front. The door has some flex to it so when you
pull it down at the front, the front leads the way and stops at the cabin cover
frame. Due to it being flexible and pressure from the strut, the aft portion
of the door stops just short of completely sitting flush on the cabin cover.
That's why the rear handle works well, it seats the aft part of the door to
the cabin, then the latch pins can pass into the nylon blocks located fore and
aft on the cabin door frame. If the door isn't fully seated the pin will extend
outside the rear cabin block wearing away and dinging the exterior finish
as the pin bounces and grinds at that point. As the airplane moves forward the
door shifts further aft until the front pin disengages and allows the door to
open.
I don't think this is a big deal. You just have to follow the pre-takeoff checklist
and reach around and feel for the pins sticking through the framework. It
worked just fine flying with Russ and adding the lights add another safety measure.
Rick S.
40185
do not archive
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Carpet Install |
Tom,
The velcro I have seen on the carpet had been sewn to the carpet. Hot glue may
be a good option though, similar to the seaming tape used on carpet.
Rick S.
40185
Message 20
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| Subject: | Transition Training |
Just for general knowledge, can anybody share what Alex and the other guy
charge for training in the -10? Also, is there any restriction on
"charging" for training since it is experimental? I have a friend who is a
CFII who is interested in doing this in FL, which would probably be helpful
to people in the SE to avoid having to go to TX or OR.
Any other thoughts?
Thanks and do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
Message 21
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Using some kind of contact cement between the carpet and the Velcro seems to
be the best way we have found. You mainly just don't want it sliding
around.
Hope this helps.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Deutsch
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 11:36 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Carpet Install
Does anyone have any good ideas on how to fasten the carpet and still keep
it removable? I planned to use Velcro but it doesn't seem to stick to the
carpet backing well enough.
Tom Deutsch, #40545
Message 22
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| Subject: | door latched security system - Door Closer |
I thought Tom was Motel 6, Tom Bodett that is...oh, wrong guy.
>From: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: door latched security system - Door Closer
>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 07:07:33 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
>
>
>And he makes it part of his passenger brief, to include why it's part of
>his passenger brief so the passenger while trying to get a feel for the
>airplane is constantly looking at the door while flying with a wrist strap
>around his wrist to reel the door back in when it flys open!!! ;)
>
>I was prepared though because I slept the night before at a Marriot
>Courtyard, not a Holiday Inn!!
>
>Actually I slept at home, that comment was just for Tom!
>
>Rick S.
>40185
>
>do not archive
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | door latched security system - Door Closer |
>From what it sounds like, a rotational handle at the middle of the door,
down at the bottom edge, which has a taperred engagement piece, which pulls
the bottom in while the handle is rotated, then at the same time causes a
shaft from the rotating handle to be pushed forward to engage the front pin
hole and another shaft going back to engage the rear hole would work.
I would work on it if I had time, but since my builder number is 409 and I
am QBing it and still don't have the cabin top on...I don't seem to be doing
too well on pace. how about you guys who are finished...any desire to design
improvements when you are not burning fuel?
I notice Tom's post, #545 waiting on paint. Damm. light speed you must build
to be where you are.
Do Not Archive
>From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: door latched security system - Door Closer
>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 11:35:41 -0500
>
>Answers below.
>
>
>Jesse Saint
>
>I-TEC, Inc.
>
>jesse@itecusa.org
>
>www.itecusa.org
>
>Cell: 352-427-0285
>
>Fax: 815-377-3694
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters
>Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 8:29 AM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: door latched security system - Door Closer
>
>
>
>
>I don't know if I have enough knowledge to comment here, so I'll ask a
>
>few questions?
>
>
>Why not add switches (sub-micro or reed) to the door to detect proper
>
>closure and wire them to disable the starter relay if the door isn't
>
>closed properly?[Jesse Saint] When it is hot out it is nice to have the
>door
>open when you are taxiing to keep from getting killed by the heat before
>takeoff.
>
>
>Is the closure problem related all the door pins or just one or two per
>
>door? (how many pins are there???)[Jesse Saint] There are front and back
>pins. I have seen the front pin not make it in when the back does, but
>this
>is not really the problem, since you can see that easily when you close it.
>The back pin is harder to see from the front seat, especially from the same
>side as the door is on. From the opposite front seat it is a lot easier to
>see/check.
>
>
>As for the 'dings' when the door is closed with the latch pins out .....
>
>would a piece of stainless embedded in the frame minimize the
>damage??[Jesse
>Saint] Yes, did you see my pictures?
>
>Linn ...... getting closer to my own kit!
>
>
>--
>
>
>1:17 PM
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Transition Training |
My understanding is they have an FAA Waiver to allow them to
do the transition training, and they have specific insurance
also, that is very expensive.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Jesse Saint wrote:
> Just for general knowledge, can anybody share what Alex and the other
> guy charge for training in the -10? Also, is there any restriction on
> charging for training since it is experimental? I have a friend who
> is a CFII who is interested in doing this in FL, which would probably be
> helpful to people in the SE to avoid having to go to TX or OR.
>
>
>
> Any other thoughts?
>
>
>
> Thanks and do not archive.
>
>
>
> Jesse Saint
>
> I-TEC, Inc.
>
> jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
>
> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
>
> Cell: 352-427-0285
>
> Fax: 815-377-3694
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 25
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Hmmm
Is there a fire issue here? Contact cement, IIRC is quite flammable. Is
there a better way?
Cheers
Les Kearney
RV10 #40643 - Lost in the empennage
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 10:13 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Carpet Install
Using some kind of contact cement between the carpet and the Velcro
seems to
be the best way we have found. You mainly just don't want it sliding
around.
Hope this helps.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Deutsch
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 11:36 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Carpet Install
Does anyone have any good ideas on how to fasten the carpet and still
keep
it removable? I planned to use Velcro but it doesn't seem to stick to
the
carpet backing well enough.
Tom Deutsch, #40545
<http://www.buildersbooks.com> www.buildersbooks.com
www.kitlog.com
www.homebuilthelp.com
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Message 26
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It's official......
I'm builder 40684 and the empennage kit is on the way.
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Transition Training |
Mike Seager charged us $155 per hour in N220RV. That was in September.
His training was excellent!
Steve Roberts
Still lurking
----- Original Message -----
From: Jesse Saint
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 12:00 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Transition Training
Just for general knowledge, can anybody share what Alex and the other
guy charge for training in the -10? Also, is there any restriction on
"charging" for training since it is experimental? I have a friend who
is a CFII who is interested in doing this in FL, which would probably be
helpful to people in the SE to avoid having to go to TX or OR.
Any other thoughts?
Thanks and do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: Carpet Install |
For those using Abby's carpet at Flightline, to ease your mind,
velcro holds her carpet in well, so you won't have to worry
about this too much.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Les Kearney wrote:
> Hmmm
>
>
>
> Is there a fire issue here? Contact cement, IIRC is quite flammable. Is
> there a better way?
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> Les Kearney
>
> RV10 #40643 Lost in the empennage
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jesse Saint
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 20, 2006 10:13 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Carpet Install
>
>
>
> Using some kind of contact cement between the carpet and the Velcro
> seems to be the best way we have found. You mainly just dont want it
> sliding around.
>
>
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
>
> Do not archive.
>
>
>
> Jesse Saint
>
> I-TEC, Inc.
>
> jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
>
> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
>
> Cell: 352-427-0285
>
> Fax: 815-377-3694
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Tom Deutsch
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 20, 2006 11:36 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Carpet Install
>
>
>
> Does anyone have any good ideas on how to fasten the carpet and still
> keep it removable? I planned to use Velcro but it doesnt seem to
> stick to the carpet backing well enough.
>
>
>
> Tom Deutsch, #40545
>
>
>
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com>*
>
> *www.kitlog.com <http://www.kitlog.com>*
>
> *www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com>*
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com>*
>
> *www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com>*
>
> *www.kitlog.com <http://www.kitlog.com>*
>
> *www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com>*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 29
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| Subject: | Trutrak Flatpack dimensions? |
Hey all -
Looked all over and can't seem to find what I'm lookin fer... anyone
have dimensions on the "flat pack" controller for a Trutrak Digiflight
IIVSGV?
Thanks!
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Trutrak Flatpack dimensions? |
Chris, I think I've got it in some of the documentation I have, I'm tied
up right now (fiberglass) but if you don't hear from someone else, I'll
get it and send it later this PM.
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
http://deemsrv10.com/
Chris Johnston wrote:
>
>Hey all -
>
>Looked all over and can't seem to find what I'm lookin fer... anyone
>have dimensions on the "flat pack" controller for a Trutrak Digiflight
>IIVSGV?
>
>Thanks!
>cj
>#40410
>fuse
>www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Trutrak Flatpack dimensions? |
Here you go Chris.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Chris Johnston wrote:
>
> Hey all -
>
> Looked all over and can't seem to find what I'm lookin fer... anyone
> have dimensions on the "flat pack" controller for a Trutrak Digiflight
> IIVSGV?
>
> Thanks!
> cj
> #40410
> fuse
> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Transition Training |
According to Alex's website, his fee is $135/hr plus gas for an RV-10
and $110 for his RV-6. As for charging for instruction in an
experimental, it's perfectly legal. The EAA lobbied for this with the
FAA. I suppose it can be interpreted as an exception to the "no
commercial activity" rule. The logic being how can one receive
transition training to meet insurance requirements if you aren't allowed
to conduct reimbursable flight training. After all, it's not reasonable
to assume that CFIs should perform such effort without compensation.
All that's required is the plane has to have completed it's phase-1
flyoff and be properly equipped for the training be given. This also
means, for example, that VFR pilots can get their instrument training in
their own airplane as long as it meets IFR equipment requirements and
the pilot can find a CFII willing to give the instruction in the
aircraft.
Todd
#40631
Riveting the HS
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 12:01 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Transition Training
Just for general knowledge, can anybody share what Alex and the other
guy charge for training in the -10? Also, is there any restriction on
"charging" for training since it is experimental? I have a friend who
is a CFII who is interested in doing this in FL, which would probably be
helpful to people in the SE to avoid having to go to TX or OR.
Any other thoughts?
Thanks and do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
Message 33
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| Subject: | Skin Edge Deburring |
The best advice on the deburring of edge of skins came to me from a
seasoned vet. He took a 6" stainless steel machinist ruler used as a
knife and passed over the edge at about a 45=BA angle. Two passes in
each direction ( ten seconds max) and the edge was deburred and
burnished to a smooth finish. I use it every time now.
Paul Hahn
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Re: Carpet Install |
Tim
Does Abby offer a partial carpet kit or is it all or nothing. Thinking
about painting much of the interior and only carpeting on areas where knees
and elbows touch.
Thanks,
JOhn G
>From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Carpet Install
>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 12:51:47 -0600
>
>
>For those using Abby's carpet at Flightline, to ease your mind,
>velcro holds her carpet in well, so you won't have to worry
>about this too much.
>
>Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>do not archive
>
>
>Les Kearney wrote:
>>Hmmm
>>
>>
>>
>>Is there a fire issue here? Contact cement, IIRC is quite flammable. Is
>>there a better way?
>>
>>
>>
>>Cheers
>>
>>
>>
>>Les Kearney
>>
>>RV10 #40643 Lost in the empennage
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>*From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jesse Saint
>>*Sent:* Wednesday, December 20, 2006 10:13 AM
>>*To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>>*Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Carpet Install
>>
>>
>>
>>Using some kind of contact cement between the carpet and the Velcro seems
>>to be the best way we have found. You mainly just dont want it sliding
>>around.
>>
>>
>>
>>Hope this helps.
>>
>>
>>
>>Do not archive.
>>
>>
>>
>>Jesse Saint
>>
>>I-TEC, Inc.
>>
>>jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
>>
>>www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
>>
>>Cell: 352-427-0285
>>
>>Fax: 815-377-3694
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>*From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Tom Deutsch
>>*Sent:* Wednesday, December 20, 2006 11:36 AM
>>*To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>>*Subject:* RV10-List: Carpet Install
>>
>>
>>
>>Does anyone have any good ideas on how to fasten the carpet and still keep
>>it removable? I planned to use Velcro but it doesnt seem to stick to
>>the carpet backing well enough.
>>
>>
>>
>>Tom Deutsch, #40545
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>* *
>>
>>* *
>>
>>* *
>>
>>*www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com>*
>>
>>*www.kitlog.com <http://www.kitlog.com>*
>>
>>*www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com>*
>>
>>*http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>
>>* *
>>
>>*http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>>
>>* *
>>
>>* *
>>
>>* *
>>
>>* *
>>
>>**
>>
>>**
>>
>>**
>>
>>**
>>
>>**
>>
>>**
>>
>>**
>>
>>**
>>
>>**
>>
>>*www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com>*
>>
>>*www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com>*
>>
>>*www.kitlog.com <http://www.kitlog.com>*
>>
>>*www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com>*
>>
>>**
>>
>>**
>>
>>**
>>
>>*http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>
>>**
>>
>>**
>>
>>**
>>
>>**
>>
>>**
>>
>>**
>>
>>**
>>
>>**
>>
>>**
>>
>>**
>>
>>*http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>>
>>**
>>
>>* *
>>
>>*
>>
>>
>>*
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: door latched security system - Door Closer |
I agree Tom. When the prop departed my Pitts I went through the '"Rule
number one, fly the airplane. Rule number two ...... see rule number
one." littany ...... and I really don't know if I said it out loud or
just in my mind. The outcome was a non-event .... the Pitts landed
uneventfully on A1A and the prop landed uneventfully in the ocean.
Linn
do not archive
Tom Deutsch wrote:
> Russ, The best thing about your post below is that you first "flew the
> plane". I have been in the flight training business for 34 years and
> have personal knowledge of several fatalities because of lesser
> incidences (lost fuel caps, open baggage doors, ect.) GOOD JOB!!!!!
> To the rest of us NEVER, NEVER quit flying the plane! Even if a door
> does come off.
>
>
>
> Tom Deutsch, 40545
>
> Waiting to paint
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 7:14 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: door latched security system - Door Closer
>
>
>
> One other thing I saw a small knob that could be threaded into a
> single hardpoint; just something to grab to pull the door fully in
> before using the door handle.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Russell Daves <mailto:dav1111@cox.net>
>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 4:40 AM
>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: door latched security system - Door Closer
>
>
>
> I put a rear handle on my doors so it was easier to pull in the
> rear part of the door before closing the door handle. I used
> rivnuts into the inside door frame and made a cloth handle with
> grommets in each end and screwed it on. Works great to make sure
> the rear part of the door can be pulled in tight enough to allow
> both the front and rear pins to slide into the frame.
>
>
>
> I also as part of the pre-flight manually check both the pilots
> door and passenger door pins are fully seated by feel.
>
>
>
> My pilots door DID NOT come off during one of my test flights,
> however it came open on takeoff and I was lucky enough to have
> made a long pull down loop strap that I was able to grab with my
> left hand while making sure I was still flying the airplane and
> hold the door down enough to keep it from coming completely off
> while I advised the tower I had a problem and needed to come back
> around for landing.
>
>
>
> I made a somewhat normal close in downwind, base and final, landed
> and had to replace a bent hinge and do a little fiberglass work
> around the rear hinge which had pulled out.
>
>
>
> It is imperative to manually check each pin, front and rear, on
> each door as part of the pre-departure check list.
>
>
>
> The doors are in my opinion the weakest part of the Van's RV-10
> design, but it is without a doubt the best airplane I have every
> flown in my 1500+ hours (owned 7, including an RV-6A).
>
>
>
> Russ Daves
>
> N710RV First Flight 7/28/06
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
>
>href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
>
>href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
>
>href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>www.aeroelectric.com
>
>www.kitlog.com <http://www.kitlog.com>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: New RV Builder |
Welcome
I was builder 40644 starting back in October, boy it is getting crowded:-)
Michael Chase
General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products
802-657-6029 Office
802-922-5930 Cell
mchase@gdatp.com
This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is for the sole use of
the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is private,
confidential, or exempt from disclosure. Any unauthorized review, use,
copying, printing, disclosure, retention, or distribution is strictly
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the
sender by reply to this e-mail, and delete all copies without disclosing
this message to others. Thank you.
<rvmail@thelefflers.com>
Sent by: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
12/20/2006 01:41 PM
Please respond to rv10-list
To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
cc:
Subject: RV10-List: New RV Builder
It's official......
I'm builder 40684 and the empennage kit is on the way.
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: New RV Builder |
Wow! Thats 40 RV-10 kits in two months!
Jim C
N312F - Finish Kit
Do Not Archive
===========================================================
From: Michael D Chase <MChase@gdatp.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: New RV Builder
Welcome
I was builder 40644 starting back in October, boy it is getting crowded:-)
Michael Chase
General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products
802-657-6029 Office
802-922-5930 Cell
mchase@gdatp.com
This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is for the sole use of
the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is private,
confidential, or exempt from disclosure. Any unauthorized review, use,
copying, printing, disclosure, retention, or distribution is strictly
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the
sender by reply to this e-mail, and delete all copies without disclosing
this message to others. Thank you.
<rvmail@thelefflers.com>
Sent by: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
12/20/2006 01:41 PM
Please respond to rv10-list
To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
cc:
Subject: RV10-List: New RV Builder
It's official......
I'm builder 40684 and the empennage kit is on the way.
===========================================================
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: tailcone rivets |
I bought one of those 3" thick blue foam insulation pieces from Loew's and laid
that down under the cone. Then I got a ~18" wide piece of ubiquitous Vans
plywood and put that down over the inside ribs. This worked great although the
wife would not have liked it if my girlfriend helped... :-)
Cheers,
Jay
Definitely do not archive
__________________________________________________
Message 39
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Hey all -
I'm trying to nail down some ancillary components for the panel, and
have a couple of questions. For those of you who have installed a
trutrak ap, how many poles and throws are required of the switch that
switches the AP source from a NAV radio to the GPS (chelton)? I
couldn't find a reference to it in the Trutrak installation
instructions. Also, I plan to have a switch that will move all functions
except PTT from the pilot to co-pilot side. Are people using relays to
accomplish this? if so, I suspect a SPST or SPDT switch would fit the
bill? I'm away from all my reference materials, and I'm trying to nail
down what I need to order.
Thanks all!
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
do not archive
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | MT Prop? (now Turbo) |
We're using a TIO-540-AK1A core from a Cessna T182T.
The AK1 is rated(or de-rated) at 235 bhp, 2400 rpm, to 20k ft.
Turning 2700 rpm it puts out 260 bhp.
The IO-540-D4A5 weighs 400 lbs which does not include the exhaust system.
The TIO-540-AK1A weighs of 472 lbs. including the exhaust system.
We've calculated the installed engine weight to be +50 lbs over the IO.
The CG is 0.5" lower and 1" farther aft.
To help off-set the difference we've choosen to use the MT 3B prop (47 lbs
vs 57 lbs Hartzell 2B).
The prop CG is 25" forward of the engine CG.
Which gives 10 lbs reduction of prop equals 15.2 lbs of engine increase to
keep the same CG.
Now we're down to 35 lbs difference from a IO-540-D4A5 with a Hartzell 2B.
To maintain the forward CG limit of 107.84 with a 200 lbs pilot and no fuel
the result is:
-IO-540-D4A5 with Hartzell 2B requires 6 lbs in the baggage (1863 lbs net
weight)
-TIO-540-AK1A with MT requires 40 lbs in the baggage (1937 lbs net weight)
Resulting in a 74 lbs gross weight penalty for single pilot flying with the
turbo.
I'll just have to carry a 5 gal can of water around with me, or maybe an A/C
unit in back!
The cowl will be modified to fit around the turbo and a relocated air inlet.
Initial fit-up shows the lowest point of the turbo(oil drain) is approx 2"
outside the current cowl envelope.
This point is even with the level of the bottom of current cowl's air
inlet/cooling outlet area but off to the left side 9".
Which results in adding a 3" deep speed bulge to the lower left side of the
cowl in a localized area.
Yes, it was his kit.
ERic--
FWF
40014
Message 41
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|
For the stick switches, I am using one switch and putting all the grounds
through it. Not my original idea, but sounded like a good way to go. I
will let you know if it works once I get my panel finished.
Rene' Felker
40322
N423CF
Finish kit or something like it.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnston
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 4:10 PM
Subject: RV10-List: switches?
Hey all -
I'm trying to nail down some ancillary components for the panel, and
have a couple of questions. For those of you who have installed a
trutrak ap, how many poles and throws are required of the switch that
switches the AP source from a NAV radio to the GPS (chelton)? I
couldn't find a reference to it in the Trutrak installation
instructions. Also, I plan to have a switch that will move all functions
except PTT from the pilot to co-pilot side. Are people using relays to
accomplish this? if so, I suspect a SPST or SPDT switch would fit the
bill? I'm away from all my reference materials, and I'm trying to nail
down what I need to order.
Thanks all!
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
do not archive
Message 42
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|
CJ
Double through double pole. Auto pilot arinc a & b in the middle gps arinc
a & b on one end and effis aric a & b on the other.
I have installed 4 or five Grand rapids EFIS now with the trutrak autopilot
and the next two that are currently in the works I am NOT putting the arinc
source switch in. Just going directly to the EFIS. Why? When you switch
arinc sources the autopilot drops out of GPSS (well after a few seconds) at
witch time your scan is somewhere else on the panel, then the plane starts
doing something else than what you have in mind. So you get the autopilot
back up on GPSS and it reacquires the GPS track so heading changes are in
order. After a few times like this you get really good and switch the Arinc
source turn the autopilot to heading mode and then back to GPSS and life is
great. OR you can just leave the autopilot alone and use the EFIS the
autopilot never drops off line and life is great.
my 2.3333333 cents worth
Noel
The rest of the story:
To isolate pilot and copilot we just put an (ON NONE ON) switch that
controls the grounding for the switches located on the two sticks, you will
want to keep the PTT on both sticks alive no mater what stick the isolate
switch is favoring.
The rest of my 2.6666666666 cents worth
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnston
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 4:10 PM
Subject: RV10-List: switches?
Hey all -
I'm trying to nail down some ancillary components for the panel, and
have a couple of questions. For those of you who have installed a
trutrak ap, how many poles and throws are required of the switch that
switches the AP source from a NAV radio to the GPS (chelton)? I
couldn't find a reference to it in the Trutrak installation
instructions. Also, I plan to have a switch that will move all functions
except PTT from the pilot to co-pilot side. Are people using relays to
accomplish this? if so, I suspect a SPST or SPDT switch would fit the
bill? I'm away from all my reference materials, and I'm trying to nail
down what I need to order.
Thanks all!
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
do not archive
Message 43
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|
Hi Chris,
If you're using anything other than an RV-10 Autopilot or Sorcerer you can't
switch between a NAV & GPS....only RS-232 and/or ARINC signals (of course
there is always an exception, this time being the 480). You can switch
between two devices RS-232 GPS signals and/or two devices which give RS-232
& ARINC, but typically the autopilot source select switch that you see on
most Chelton panels is for the GPS feed only. The NAV side requires the
higher end AP's and then it would require a multiple pole relay due to the
large number of wires needed. If it's GPS & ARINC only it's only 1 or 3
wires....
I hope I helped a little, I know - clear as mud right?!?! Give me a call of
list and we'll get it figured out for you. Stick functions depend totally
on the number of items being switched, but if it's many of them then a relay
is a must.
Cheers,
Stein.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris Johnston
>Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 5:10 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: switches?
>
>
>
>Hey all -
>
>I'm trying to nail down some ancillary components for the panel, and
>have a couple of questions. For those of you who have installed a
>trutrak ap, how many poles and throws are required of the switch that
>switches the AP source from a NAV radio to the GPS (chelton)? I
>couldn't find a reference to it in the Trutrak installation
>instructions. Also, I plan to have a switch that will move all functions
>except PTT from the pilot to co-pilot side. Are people using relays to
>accomplish this? if so, I suspect a SPST or SPDT switch would fit the
>bill? I'm away from all my reference materials, and I'm trying to nail
>down what I need to order.
>
>Thanks all!
>cj
>#40410
>fuse
>www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
>do not archive
>
>
Message 44
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|
You've got some good answers already Chris, but I'll try to explain
mine, and in a different way.
You can either do a double-pole double-throw, or you can get a quad-pole
switch. There are 2 ARINC lines, and 1 serial lines that are in
question. The serial line just gets the GPS position data from
the GPS, so the Autopilot knows it's TRK. If you don't provide
GPS, it would only know heading. The ARINC does the controlling
of the autopilot. So now it gets fun... You can leave your
Serial switch on one GPS all the time if you wish, if you have a
GPS you can count on. Your ARINC you may want to switch between
an EFIS or a NAV/COM/GPS unit. I have my Cheltons or my GNS480
drive my autopilot.
Now, on the panel is a source select switch for those 2 systems.
That one just switches the ARINC lines, in my case. So I can
control the system from either source. My GPS signal I have
on an under-panel hidden switch, that can select between my
Chelton GPS, or the GNS-480. This switch I usually leave on
the GNS-480 side, because that's my WAAS GPS that supposedly
would be top notch. However, I did put the switch there,
because if I need to run at minimum power draw, my GNS-480
is getting the boot and it shuts off with the master, when I'm
running E-bus only. So therefore, I wanted a switch behind the
panel that I could move to the other side for GPS source. It's
just on a little L bracket on the panel so it's easy to feel for
and find.
Now for the stick stuff. I really like the way I did it, and
here's how and why.
On my panel I have a switch labeled like
TRIM CONTROL - Pilot / Co-Pilot
The labeling isn't what I'd want, and you'll see why.
My PILOT side stick is always active, for everything. I didn't
want ANY switch to knock me out of control. I will not let
most anyone fly my plane from the Left seat. My CO-Pilot stick,
however, has the switches for Trims, Frequency flip-flops, and
anything else that I deemed something that the kids or another
person could bump or mess with, as "restricted" devices. When
the switch is in the PILOT position (should read PILOT ONLY), then
those items have their grounds cut off....so the switches don't
function. When it's in the Co-Pilot position (Should read
PILOT/CO-PILOT), then those grounds are available and the functions
will work. This allows me to basically deactivate that stick
for all but a couple things, like PTT, unless I want it activated.
When I fly with the wife, it's usually activated. When the kids
come up, it's rarely activated. It works very well and
should help keep people from bumping things they shouldn't.
Note that since it's just one ground, the switch can be a SPST
if you wish. There isn't a center position.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Chris Johnston wrote:
>
> Hey all -
>
> I'm trying to nail down some ancillary components for the panel, and
> have a couple of questions. For those of you who have installed a
> trutrak ap, how many poles and throws are required of the switch that
> switches the AP source from a NAV radio to the GPS (chelton)? I
> couldn't find a reference to it in the Trutrak installation
> instructions. Also, I plan to have a switch that will move all functions
> except PTT from the pilot to co-pilot side. Are people using relays to
> accomplish this? if so, I suspect a SPST or SPDT switch would fit the
> bill? I'm away from all my reference materials, and I'm trying to nail
> down what I need to order.
>
> Thanks all!
> cj
> #40410
> fuse
> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
Message 45
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|
I forgot to add in my post I just did for this reply that on the
Autopilot source, you could switch your stuff with a quad switch,
and flip both the ARINC and Serial lines from source to source, and
that would work fine too. That would be the simplest way to
do it, but it would have to re-acquire itself when it loses the
GPS signal to the AP, so it would take a couple more seconds for it
to re-learn it's TRK.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Chris Johnston wrote:
>
> Hey all -
>
> I'm trying to nail down some ancillary components for the panel, and
> have a couple of questions. For those of you who have installed a
> trutrak ap, how many poles and throws are required of the switch that
> switches the AP source from a NAV radio to the GPS (chelton)? I
> couldn't find a reference to it in the Trutrak installation
> instructions. Also, I plan to have a switch that will move all functions
> except PTT from the pilot to co-pilot side. Are people using relays to
> accomplish this? if so, I suspect a SPST or SPDT switch would fit the
> bill? I'm away from all my reference materials, and I'm trying to nail
> down what I need to order.
>
> Thanks all!
> cj
> #40410
> fuse
> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
> do not archive
>
Message 46
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|
| Subject: | Re: Transition Training |
I trained with Alex a week ago-$135 Plus fuel like someone mentioned. Alex
mentioned to me that he pays somewhere around $9K for insurance for both of
his -10 and -6.
Anh
----- Original Message -----
From: Steven Roberts
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Transition Training
Mike Seager charged us $155 per hour in N220RV. That was in September.
His training was excellent!
Steve Roberts
Still lurking
----- Original Message -----
From: Jesse Saint
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 12:00 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Transition Training
Just for general knowledge, can anybody share what Alex and the other g
uy charge for training in the -10? Also, is there any restriction on "char
ging" for training since it is experimental? I have a friend who is a CFII
who is interested in doing this in FL, which would probably be helpful to
people in the SE to avoid having to go to TX or OR.
Any other thoughts?
Thanks and do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chr
ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?RV10-List
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Carpet Install |
I used snap buttons - 1/2 fastened to the floor pans before they were rivet
ed in place, 1/2 fastened to the carpet. I may sew velcro on the carpet la
ter if needed.
Anh
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Deutsch
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 11:35 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Carpet Install
Does anyone have any good ideas on how to fasten the carpet and still kee
p it removable? I planned to use Velcro but it doesn't seem to stick to t
he carpet backing well enough.
Tom Deutsch, #40545
Message 48
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|
| Subject: | door latched security system - Door Closer |
I absolutely do not want to hear any more complaining from folks with
builder numbers in the 400's and up about going to slow. It will damage my
very fragile ego!! :-)
John
#40208 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 10:30 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door latched security system - Door Closer
--> <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>From what it sounds like, a rotational handle at the middle of the
>door,
down at the bottom edge, which has a taperred engagement piece, which pulls
the bottom in while the handle is rotated, then at the same time causes a
shaft from the rotating handle to be pushed forward to engage the front pin
hole and another shaft going back to engage the rear hole would work.
I would work on it if I had time, but since my builder number is 409 and I
am QBing it and still don't have the cabin top on...I don't seem to be doing
too well on pace. how about you guys who are finished...any desire to design
improvements when you are not burning fuel?
I notice Tom's post, #545 waiting on paint. Damm. light speed you must build
to be where you are.
Do Not Archive
>From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: door latched security system - Door Closer
>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 11:35:41 -0500
>
>Answers below.
>
>
>Jesse Saint
>
>I-TEC, Inc.
>
>jesse@itecusa.org
>
>www.itecusa.org
>
>Cell: 352-427-0285
>
>Fax: 815-377-3694
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters
>Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 8:29 AM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: door latched security system - Door Closer
>
>
>--> <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
>
>
>I don't know if I have enough knowledge to comment here, so I'll ask a
>
>few questions?
>
>
>Why not add switches (sub-micro or reed) to the door to detect proper
>
>closure and wire them to disable the starter relay if the door isn't
>
>closed properly?[Jesse Saint] When it is hot out it is nice to have the
>door open when you are taxiing to keep from getting killed by the heat
>before takeoff.
>
>
>Is the closure problem related all the door pins or just one or two per
>
>door? (how many pins are there???)[Jesse Saint] There are front and back
>pins. I have seen the front pin not make it in when the back does, but
>this is not really the problem, since you can see that easily when you
>close it.
>The back pin is harder to see from the front seat, especially from the
>same side as the door is on. From the opposite front seat it is a lot
>easier to see/check.
>
>
>As for the 'dings' when the door is closed with the latch pins out .....
>
>would a piece of stainless embedded in the frame minimize the
>damage??[Jesse
>Saint] Yes, did you see my pictures?
>
>Linn ...... getting closer to my own kit!
>
>
>--
>
>
>1:17 PM
>
>
__________ NOD32 1932 (20061220) Information __________
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: door latched security system - Door Closer |
There are two pins per door, one fwd and one aft which engage the holes in
the bulkheads to hold the doors shut. The closure problem is related to
the rear pins because the door handles are positioned near the fwd edge of
the doors, thus not enough pull power on the aft edge. Van's idiot lights
are sufficient to ensure proper closure before engine start. However, IMHO
the door latch mechanism needs to be redesign. I feel that sooner or later
the holes in the bulkheads are going to be enlarged from normal usage and
eventually lose their pressure on the door seals. Those white blocks are
offering zero support IMHO being held on my two screws.
One other similar design issue. I feel that the front seat adjustment
handles can use some more thoughts. They are too close to the side panels
to operate with one hand, especially if you're going to have covers on the
side panels. I had to use my two index fingers to pull the handle up to
slide the seat when flying with Alex last week. Also, it would be nice if
you can slide the seats off without having to losen the bolts holding the
handles on first.
Anh
>
>
> I don't know if I have enough knowledge to comment here, so I'll ask a
> few questions?
>
> Why not add switches (sub-micro or reed) to the door to detect proper
> closure and wire them to disable the starter relay if the door isn't
> closed properly?
>
> Is the closure problem related all the door pins or just one or two per
> door? (how many pins are there???)
>
> As for the 'dings' when the door is closed with the latch pins out .....
> would a piece of stainless embedded in the frame minimize the damage??
> Linn ...... getting closer to my own kit!
>
>
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: door latched security system - Inflatable Seals? |
Has anyone used an inflatable seal around the doors?
Shut the door, engage the pins, inflate the seal......
Message 51
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Am I wrong in thinking that the ARINC is just for adding the GPSS feature,
but with just the serial connection you can still have the GPS control the
autopilot, but it will not "cut the corner" in a turn at a waypoint? I
think I remember this being the case. In this case you don't truly NEED
ARINC at all, but it makes it better.
In answer to your question as asked, the NAV radio and the GPS do completely
different things in the AP, so you don't need a switch at all. The NAV
radio would control the AP when flying on a VOR, LOC or ILS and the GPS
would control it when flying, well, GPS. As Stein said, this would only
apply to the RV-10 AP or the Sorcerer, since none of the others have the NAV
function. If you are referring to two actual GPS sources, then the other
replies will do the trick. For the Sorcerer, the NAV side connects to GS
Up, GS Down, Nav Left, Nav Right, and LOC trigger wires from the Nav radio.
On the GPS, you have the RS-232 wire and two ARINC's if you are using that
function (which I very much do recommend, in case my post leads you to
believe that it isn't beneficial).
On the trims, contrary to what may be normal these days in "Experimentals",
I wired all controls on both sticks active always. No switch. The only
problem may come when the copilot bumps the non-momentary flap up switch and
leaves it up and then the pilot tries to lower the flaps and they don't go
down. To remedy this I just put in a momentary up as well as momentary down
on the copilot's flap switch. Nothing has blown up yet, but it might at any
time.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: switches?
You've got some good answers already Chris, but I'll try to explain
mine, and in a different way.
You can either do a double-pole double-throw, or you can get a quad-pole
switch. There are 2 ARINC lines, and 1 serial lines that are in
question. The serial line just gets the GPS position data from
the GPS, so the Autopilot knows it's TRK. If you don't provide
GPS, it would only know heading. The ARINC does the controlling
of the autopilot. So now it gets fun... You can leave your
Serial switch on one GPS all the time if you wish, if you have a
GPS you can count on. Your ARINC you may want to switch between
an EFIS or a NAV/COM/GPS unit. I have my Cheltons or my GNS480
drive my autopilot.
Now, on the panel is a source select switch for those 2 systems.
That one just switches the ARINC lines, in my case. So I can
control the system from either source. My GPS signal I have
on an under-panel hidden switch, that can select between my
Chelton GPS, or the GNS-480. This switch I usually leave on
the GNS-480 side, because that's my WAAS GPS that supposedly
would be top notch. However, I did put the switch there,
because if I need to run at minimum power draw, my GNS-480
is getting the boot and it shuts off with the master, when I'm
running E-bus only. So therefore, I wanted a switch behind the
panel that I could move to the other side for GPS source. It's
just on a little L bracket on the panel so it's easy to feel for
and find.
Now for the stick stuff. I really like the way I did it, and
here's how and why.
On my panel I have a switch labeled like
TRIM CONTROL - Pilot / Co-Pilot
The labeling isn't what I'd want, and you'll see why.
My PILOT side stick is always active, for everything. I didn't
want ANY switch to knock me out of control. I will not let
most anyone fly my plane from the Left seat. My CO-Pilot stick,
however, has the switches for Trims, Frequency flip-flops, and
anything else that I deemed something that the kids or another
person could bump or mess with, as "restricted" devices. When
the switch is in the PILOT position (should read PILOT ONLY), then
those items have their grounds cut off....so the switches don't
function. When it's in the Co-Pilot position (Should read
PILOT/CO-PILOT), then those grounds are available and the functions
will work. This allows me to basically deactivate that stick
for all but a couple things, like PTT, unless I want it activated.
When I fly with the wife, it's usually activated. When the kids
come up, it's rarely activated. It works very well and
should help keep people from bumping things they shouldn't.
Note that since it's just one ground, the switch can be a SPST
if you wish. There isn't a center position.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Chris Johnston wrote:
>
> Hey all -
>
> I'm trying to nail down some ancillary components for the panel, and
> have a couple of questions. For those of you who have installed a
> trutrak ap, how many poles and throws are required of the switch that
> switches the AP source from a NAV radio to the GPS (chelton)? I
> couldn't find a reference to it in the Trutrak installation
> instructions. Also, I plan to have a switch that will move all functions
> except PTT from the pilot to co-pilot side. Are people using relays to
> accomplish this? if so, I suspect a SPST or SPDT switch would fit the
> bill? I'm away from all my reference materials, and I'm trying to nail
> down what I need to order.
>
> Thanks all!
> cj
> #40410
> fuse
> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
--
1:17 PM
Message 52
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| Subject: | door latched security system - Door Closer |
Hey John!!
Back in the Viper??
And at builder #40185...no complaints from the 200's either, but as it comes together....August
for a guess, I offer the quote..."Good things come to those who
wait"
There is not a "hurried" or "anxious" bone in my body to finish, and given the
opportunity to brag...the finished product will show that. :)
As it get close John I'll let you know so you can get your leave scheduled;)
Rick S.
40185
do not archive
Message 53
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No worries les,
The most dangerous time for contact cement is when it is
still
wet. As it dries and the volatiles outgas the glue becomes mostly inert.
I=92ve compared the contact cement supplied from airtex (which is used
in
certified installs) to commercially available =93dap=94 type glue and
upholstery
cement we use for auto tops, and found they are almost identical. The
dried
cement =93boogers =93we burn tested did burn a bit under direct flame,
but did
not support combustion. In a comparison test all types performed the
same.
In certified aircraft its common to use cardboard type upholstered
panels
with foam and a fabric or leather finish. I can tell you with some
certainty
that the board and foams burn vigorously and DO support a flame. But as
long
as the exposed surface has an approved burn spec it gets faa blessing or
so
it seems. I=92d not worry about the adhesive as much as wisely choose
the
materials used in the install.
.02
Steve
40205
Hmmm
Is there a fire issue here? Contact cement, IIRC is quite flammable. Is
there a better way?
Cheers
Les Kearney
RV10 #40643 ' Lost in the empennage
12/19/2006
--
12/19/2006
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