Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:09 AM - Re: Oxygen exterior fill port (Wayne Edgerton)
2. 04:22 AM - Re: short field performance (Russell Daves)
3. 06:25 AM - Re: short field performance (Jesse Saint)
4. 06:29 AM - Re: Oxygen exterior fill port (Jesse Saint)
5. 09:20 AM - My Favorite Christmas present! (Deems Davis)
6. 09:43 AM - Re: My Favorite Christmas present! (Larry Rosen)
7. 09:59 AM - Re: My Favorite Christmas present! (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
8. 11:30 AM - Re: My Favorite Christmas present! (Ralph E. Capen)
9. 12:58 PM - Re: short field performance (NYTerminat)
10. 01:10 PM - Re: short field performance (NYTerminat)
11. 01:22 PM - Re: Oxygen exterior fill port (Richard Reynolds)
12. 01:25 PM - Re: short field performance (NYTerminat)
13. 03:35 PM - Re: Oxygen exterior fill port (David Maib)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Oxygen exterior fill port |
I have installed my Mountain High system bottle behind the baggage
compartment mounted on the back of the wall with a remote fill extending
into the baggage compartment through the wall. I got the idea from Randy
D and I think it will work well for my needs. He has pictures posted on
his web site at http://myrv10.com/N610RV/index.html
Also Russ Daves built a really nice system where he put the bottle just
behind the rear seat in the baggae compartment and built a protective
cover that went over the bottle. That way he didn't have to worry about
banging it with baggage. He did a really nice job on it. I'm sure if you
asked him he would forward you the pictures of it.
Both Russ's system and mine are four place systems. I will be installed
the outlets in the rear somewhere in or near the arm rest area and in
the front down near the knee area.
Wayne Edgerton #40336
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: short field performance |
Bob:
A single pilot half gas 260HP RV-10 can take off and land on a 1300 foot
grass strip on a no wind day but it is going to be tight. As far as
obstacles at both end it is going to depend on height of the obstacles.
Now for real life experience. I have flown my RV-10 (IO-540 260 HP with
MT prop) in and out of a 1600 foot grass strip multiple times. Such
strip 12TX (1235 MSL) shows on the FAA posting as being 2000 feet but it
is really closer to 1600 feet with an over run at each end that should
not be factored into determining the length of the runway.
In addition 12TX has 80 foot trees at the south end (they may have been
30 feet when the runway was built but they are closer to 80 now - High
line wires are lower than the tree tops). Occasionally the tree tops at
the end of the runway get cut back by the power line company but I have
never seen them cut back all the way to the high line wires, more to get
the branches away from the high line wires. At the north end there are
30' High Line wires as well. The runway also slops sharply downhill to
the south (probably at least a 50 feet elevation difference in the
runway from north to south.
I have flown in and out of 12TX with my RV-10 (4 times). Both with a
fair amount of baggage, single pilot (240 lbs), and full fuel. Flown
out with half tanks and minimum baggage with pilot and co-pilot (480
lbs) as well. On a no wind day I use the south runway for landing as it
goes uphill and the north runway for takeoff. With wind, I use
whichever runway the wind favors naturally.
Is 12TX tight? You bet your bippie. Is it to tight? Not if you have
good short field landing abilities. Would I take off with full
passengers and full fuel on a no wind or light wind day? No, I would
send the passengers over to BMQ and tell them I would pick them up
there.
Are Van's figures fluff? Probably not. I suspect that I could drag
N710RV on a sea level runway and stop it using light brakes in less than
525 feet where there are no obstacles on a no wind day. I am not sure I
could get it off the ground in 325 feet on a no wind day at sea level
but it is possible. So far I have never flown N710RV out of a sea level
location so I am somewhat shooting from the hip. I will say this for
Van's, they have been really accurate on their specs and I have no doubt
that Dick Vangrundson himself can do anything in any of his RV's that he
says can be done. That doesn't mean that I am a good enough pilot to
duplicate his abilities.
The real question is would I as a 1500+ hour pilot (almost all being
high performance)regularly fly in and out of a 1300 foot level strip
with 30' highline wires at both ends? The answer is yes if the
elevation is less than 1500 MSL and if I plan to fly it regularly with
less than 500 lbs of gas and bodies. The answer is no if I planned on
flying it regularly with more than 800 lbs of gas and bodies.
Hope this helps you make a decision on the RV-10 vs. the sportsman 2+2.
I will tell you that you won't find a better company than Van's to deal
with or a better bunch of people than the RV crowd. I can't tell you
how much more happier I have been switching from flying spam cans to
flying RV's.
Russ Daves
N710RV - RV-10 first flight 7/28/06 76+ hours and climbing
N610RV - RV-6A Sold (280 hours flight time)
RV-8 - Under construction
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: short field performance |
I replied to this yesterday, but I guess it didn't go through because I
forgot to resize the attachment. Now I am on a different computer using
webmail, so I don't have the picture.
My answer would be that my dad has tested N256H against Van's numbers and
he feels that they are accurate. My dad, of course, has at least several
hundred hours flying in and out of jungle strips in Ecuador, so he is
self-trained and fairly avid Bush Pilot. I would say that it can be done
at the weight you stated, given that it is not too high above sea level,
that the strip is fairly flat and hard, and there aren't a bunch of ant
hills like the strip we tested in FL. My dad would probably get in and
out of a strip like that @ gross if he needed to. I would recommend you
find an RV-10 and owner and see if they will give you a demo. If nothing
else, find a strip that is similar in elevation and level-ness but longer
and mark off your strip and see how it performs to that mark. If you are
satisfied with that, then that makes a difference. I have researched the
2+2 a fair bit and even though it quotes being a lot more STOL than the
-10, I would say that at the useful load you stated, it probably would
give the 2+2 a run for its money on takeoff and landing performance. When
it comes to all other performance, the -10 (IMHO) beats the 2+2 hands
down.
Where are you located?
Jesse Saint
> Bob:
>
> A single pilot half gas 260HP RV-10 can take off and land on a 1300 foot
> grass strip on a no wind day but it is going to be tight. As far as
> obstacles at both end it is going to depend on height of the obstacles.
>
> Now for real life experience. I have flown my RV-10 (IO-540 260 HP with
> MT prop) in and out of a 1600 foot grass strip multiple times. Such strip
> 12TX (1235 MSL) shows on the FAA posting as being 2000 feet but it is
> really closer to 1600 feet with an over run at each end that should not be
> factored into determining the length of the runway.
>
> In addition 12TX has 80 foot trees at the south end (they may have been 30
> feet when the runway was built but they are closer to 80 now - High line
> wires are lower than the tree tops). Occasionally the tree tops at the
> end of the runway get cut back by the power line company but I have never
> seen them cut back all the way to the high line wires, more to get the
> branches away from the high line wires. At the north end there are 30'
> High Line wires as well. The runway also slops sharply downhill to the
> south (probably at least a 50 feet elevation difference in the runway from
> north to south.
>
> I have flown in and out of 12TX with my RV-10 (4 times). Both with a fair
> amount of baggage, single pilot (240 lbs), and full fuel. Flown out with
> half tanks and minimum baggage with pilot and co-pilot (480 lbs) as well.
> On a no wind day I use the south runway for landing as it goes uphill and
> the north runway for takeoff. With wind, I use whichever runway the wind
> favors naturally.
>
> Is 12TX tight? You bet your bippie. Is it to tight? Not if you have
> good short field landing abilities. Would I take off with full passengers
> and full fuel on a no wind or light wind day? No, I would send the
> passengers over to BMQ and tell them I would pick them up there.
>
> Are Van's figures fluff? Probably not. I suspect that I could drag
> N710RV on a sea level runway and stop it using light brakes in less than
> 525 feet where there are no obstacles on a no wind day. I am not sure I
> could get it off the ground in 325 feet on a no wind day at sea level but
> it is possible. So far I have never flown N710RV out of a sea level
> location so I am somewhat shooting from the hip. I will say this for
> Van's, they have been really accurate on their specs and I have no doubt
> that Dick Vangrundson himself can do anything in any of his RV's that he
> says can be done. That doesn't mean that I am a good enough pilot to
> duplicate his abilities.
>
> The real question is would I as a 1500+ hour pilot (almost all being high
> performance)regularly fly in and out of a 1300 foot level strip with 30'
> highline wires at both ends? The answer is yes if the elevation is less
> than 1500 MSL and if I plan to fly it regularly with less than 500 lbs of
> gas and bodies. The answer is no if I planned on flying it regularly with
> more than 800 lbs of gas and bodies.
>
> Hope this helps you make a decision on the RV-10 vs. the sportsman 2+2. I
> will tell you that you won't find a better company than Van's to deal with
> or a better bunch of people than the RV crowd. I can't tell you how much
> more happier I have been switching from flying spam cans to flying RV's.
>
> Russ Daves
> N710RV - RV-10 first flight 7/28/06 76+ hours and climbing
> N610RV - RV-6A Sold (280 hours flight time)
> RV-8 - Under construction
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Oxygen exterior fill port |
We have used the Sky-Ox portable 4-place tank and we lay it on the tunnel
cover between the rear seats and use it as an arm rest for the back seat.
You could easily install some straps on the tunnel cover(s) to hold it in
place. The padded carrying back helps to keep it from being an eyesore or
an elbowsore.
Jesse
> I have installed my Mountain High system bottle behind the baggage
> compartment mounted on the back of the wall with a remote fill extending
> into the baggage compartment through the wall. I got the idea from Randy D
> and I think it will work well for my needs. He has pictures posted on his
> web site at http://myrv10.com/N610RV/index.html
>
> Also Russ Daves built a really nice system where he put the bottle just
> behind the rear seat in the baggae compartment and built a protective
> cover that went over the bottle. That way he didn't have to worry about
> banging it with baggage. He did a really nice job on it. I'm sure if you
> asked him he would forward you the pictures of it.
>
> Both Russ's system and mine are four place systems. I will be installed
> the outlets in the rear somewhere in or near the arm rest area and in the
> front down near the knee area.
>
> Wayne Edgerton #40336
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
Message 5
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| Subject: | My Favorite Christmas present! |
See attachment.
<http://forums.matronics.com>
*Deems Davis # 406
Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
http://deemsrv10.com/
Merry Christmas to all!
*
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: My Favorite Christmas present! |
Does that mean no building on Christmas.
Happy Holidays
Larry
Deems Davis wrote:
>
> See attachment.
>
> <http://forums.matronics.com>
> *Deems Davis # 406
> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
> Merry Christmas to all!
> *
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | My Favorite Christmas present! |
Na, it's actually Christmas Day. :-D Merry Christmas to everyone.
Michael
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: My Favorite Christmas present!
Does that mean no building on Christmas.
Happy Holidays
Larry
Deems Davis wrote:
>
> See attachment.
>
> <http://forums.matronics.com>
> *Deems Davis # 406
> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
> Merry Christmas to all!
> *
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: My Favorite Christmas present! |
I gotta get me one....where?
BTW, nice looking -10 under construction in the background....
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis@cox.net>
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 12:18 PM
Subject: RV10-List: My Favorite Christmas present!
>
> See attachment.
>
> <http://forums.matronics.com>
> *Deems Davis # 406
> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
> Merry Christmas to all!
> *
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: short field performance |
Russ,
Thanks for the reply on your experience. 12TX sounds a lot like my runway only
a little longer. I also have about -30 ft elevation difference from east to west,
relatively level for about 1/2 of the runway then drops down to the west.
Winds are usually out of the west, unfortunately the power lines are on the approach
side approx 130 ft high and 400 ft from the threshold. My field is 1840'
and we get up to 3800' DA here in the heat of the summer.
I suspect that I already knew that the 10 is really pushing the envelope and that
is not what I want to do. There is an area on my property that I can put together
around 2300+ ft but it would take a lot of work, is not lined up with prevailing
winds and it is nearly impossible to taxi to my hanger. I do appreciate
the reply and wish you a Merry Christmas.
Bob Spudis
do not archive
In a message dated 12/25/06 07:24:18 Eastern Standard Time, dav1111@cox.net writes:
Now for real life experience. I have flown my RV-10 (IO-540 260 HP with MT prop)
in and out of a 1600 foot grass strip multiple times. Such strip 12TX (1235
MSL) shows on the FAA posting as being 2000 feet but it is really closer to
1600 feet with an over run at each end that should not be factored into determining
the length of the runway.
In addition 12TX has 80 foot trees at the south end (they may have been 30 feet
when the runway was built but they are closer to 80 now - High line wires are
lower than the tree tops). Occasionally the tree tops at the end of the runway
get cut back by the power line company but I have never seen them cut back
all the way to the high line wires, more to get the branches away from the high
line wires. At the north end there are 30' High Line wires as well. The
runway also slops sharply downhill to the south (probably at least a 50 feet elevation
difference in the runway from north to south.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: short field performance |
Jesse,
I would bet that your dad has had a lot of experience in short, unimproved conditions.
Thanks for your take on the performance. You are right, I need to fly
each one and see just what they can do. It is interesting that you think that
the performance would be similar, only one way to find out I guess. I was thinking
that the 2+2 would be better since it is almost impossible to get into a
spin situation and would side slip really well at a lower stall speed than the
10. Keep up the Lord's work and Merry Christmas!!!
Bob Spudis
do not archive
In a message dated 12/25/06 09:27:08 Eastern Standard Time, jesse@itecusa.org writes:
I would recommend you
find an RV-10 and owner and see if they will give you a demo. If nothing
else, find a strip that is similar in elevation and level-ness but longer
and mark off your strip and see how it performs to that mark. If you are
satisfied with that, then that makes a difference. I have researched the
2+2 a fair bit and even though it quotes being a lot more STOL than the
-10, I would say that at the useful load you stated, it probably would
give the 2+2 a run for its money on takeoff and landing performance. When
it comes to all other performance, the -10 (IMHO) beats the 2+2 hands
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Oxygen exterior fill port |
The system I installed is a Mountain High E&S carbon fiber 48 cu-ft
O2 bottle (CFFC-048) with a EOS-6R/REG 1054 Regulator.
This provides 42.5 man-hours at 15,000 ft with an initial fill
pressure of 2200 psi. Carbon fiber bottles are rated at higher
pressures.
www.mhoxygen.com
The O2 bottle is 6.5 inches in diameter and 20.38 inches long. The
the valve, pressure gage and regulator add approximately 4 inches.
The system weigh (filled) is about 10 lbs.
Photo 1 shows the system installed in my RV-6A.
Photo 2 shows the straps and brackets mounted to the floor with AN3
bolts. An angle support with K1000-3 nut plates was installed before
mounting the floor.
Photo 3 shows the location in the RV-10. The centerline of the O2
bottle is 6 inches aft of the rear seat hinge. It is out of the way
of most baggage and accessible for removal and refilling.
Photo 4 shows the angle support with K1000-3 nut plates attached to
the outboard side of the right tunnel floor rib. The other angle
support is attached to the left side baggage floor rib.
The system will be plumbed with 6 mm (.25 in) tubing and connectors
supplied by Mountain High.
Richard Reynolds
See photo attached
On Dec 24, 2006, at 7:30 AM, David Maib wrote:
>
> Is your bottle plumbed into an O2 delivery system in the airplane
> or do you just have long hoses from the bottle? If connected to a
> plumbed in system, I would love to have some details and photos if
> available.
>
> David Maib
> #40559
> tailcone
>
>
> On Dec 24, 2006, at 6:20 AM, Richard Reynolds wrote:
>
> <rvreynolds@macs.net>
>
> A removable Q2 bottle provides a lot more options (cheaper) for
> refilling .
>
> On my RV-6A, I chose a Mountain High E&S carbon fiber 48 cu-ft O2
> bottle (CFFC-048). Total weight filled with 2 stations was 10 lbs.
> It lasts a very long time, which is good for x/c out west because
> you do not have to refill at every stop. If you do not want the
> weight for local flying, just remove the O2 bottle.
>
> We plan to install the same system on the RV-10 with the O2 bottle
> just behind the rear left pax seat where it is accessible for
> removable and refilling.
>
> Richard Reynolds
>
> On Dec 24, 2006, at 1:10 AM, L Aune wrote:
>
>
>>
>> I was talking to a local FBO guy who said that all the aircraft in
>> their fleet were having to remove the O2 bottle for refill rather
>> than having O2 fill-up carts come out to the aircraft. Is the
>> external O2 filler port being outlawed or is this just a local
>> problem? Has anyone heard bout this problem? Do not archive.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: short field performance |
Jesse,
Sorry I forgot to mention, I am in between N03 and BGM in Upstate NY.
Thanks Again
Bob Spudis
do not archive
In a message dated 12/25/06 16:12:28 Eastern Standard Time, NYTerminat writes:
Jesse,
I would bet that your dad has had a lot of experience in short, unimproved conditions.
Thanks for your take on the performance. You are right, I need to fly
each one and see just what they can do. It is interesting that you think that
the performance would be similar, only one way to find out I guess. I was thinking
that the 2+2 would be better since it is almost impossible to get into a
spin situation and would side slip really well at a lower stall speed than the
10. Keep up the Lord's work and Merry Christmas!!!
Bob Spudis
do not archive
In a message dated 12/25/06 09:27:08 Eastern Standard Time, jesse@itecusa.org writes:
I would recommend you
find an RV-10 and owner and see if they will give you a demo. If nothing
else, find a strip that is similar in elevation and level-ness but longer
and mark off your strip and see how it performs to that mark. If you are
satisfied with that, then that makes a difference. I have researched the
2+2 a fair bit and even though it quotes being a lot more STOL than the
-10, I would say that at the useful load you stated, it probably would
give the 2+2 a run for its money on takeoff and landing performance. When
it comes to all other performance, the -10 (IMHO) beats the 2+2 hands
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Oxygen exterior fill port |
Thanks Richard.
David Maib
#40559
tailcone
Do not archive
On Dec 25, 2006, at 3:16 PM, Richard Reynolds wrote:
The system I installed is a Mountain High E&S carbon fiber 48 cu-ft
O2 bottle (CFFC-048) with a EOS-6R/REG 1054 Regulator.
This provides 42.5 man-hours at 15,000 ft with an initial fill
pressure of 2200 psi. Carbon fiber bottles are rated at higher
pressures.
www.mhoxygen.com
The O2 bottle is 6.5 inches in diameter and 20.38 inches long. The
the valve, pressure gage and regulator add approximately 4 inches.
The system weigh (filled) is about 10 lbs.
Photo 1 shows the system installed in my RV-6A.
Photo 2 shows the straps and brackets mounted to the floor with AN3
bolts. An angle support with K1000-3 nut plates was installed before
mounting the floor.
Photo 3 shows the location in the RV-10. The centerline of the O2
bottle is 6 inches aft of the rear seat hinge. It is out of the way
of most baggage and accessible for removal and refilling.
Photo 4 shows the angle support with K1000-3 nut plates attached to
the outboard side of the right tunnel floor rib. The other angle
support is attached to the left side baggage floor rib.
The system will be plumbed with 6 mm (.25 in) tubing and connectors
supplied by Mountain High.
Richard Reynolds
See photo attached
<DSCN1180.jpg>
<DSCN1181.jpg>
<DSCN1184.jpg>
<DSCN1186.jpg>
On Dec 24, 2006, at 7:30 AM, David Maib wrote:
>
> Is your bottle plumbed into an O2 delivery system in the airplane
> or do you just have long hoses from the bottle? If connected to a
> plumbed in system, I would love to have some details and photos if
> available.
>
> David Maib
> #40559
> tailcone
>
>
> On Dec 24, 2006, at 6:20 AM, Richard Reynolds wrote:
>
> <rvreynolds@macs.net>
>
> A removable Q2 bottle provides a lot more options (cheaper) for
> refilling .
>
> On my RV-6A, I chose a Mountain High E&S carbon fiber 48 cu-ft O2
> bottle (CFFC-048). Total weight filled with 2 stations was 10 lbs.
> It lasts a very long time, which is good for x/c out west because
> you do not have to refill at every stop. If you do not want the
> weight for local flying, just remove the O2 bottle.
>
> We plan to install the same system on the RV-10 with the O2 bottle
> just behind the rear left pax seat where it is accessible for
> removable and refilling.
>
> Richard Reynolds
>
> On Dec 24, 2006, at 1:10 AM, L Aune wrote:
>
>
>>
>> I was talking to a local FBO guy who said that all the aircraft in
>> their fleet were having to remove the O2 bottle for refill rather
>> than having O2 fill-up carts come out to the aircraft. Is the
>> external O2 filler port being outlawed or is this just a local
>> problem? Has anyone heard bout this problem? Do not archive.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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