Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:29 AM - Re: D2A (Rodger Todd)
2. 04:54 AM - Re: D2A (Byron Gillespie)
3. 06:04 AM - Surface Corrosion? (Jay Brinkmeyer)
4. 06:08 AM - Is D2A out of business? (Jay Brinkmeyer)
5. 06:40 AM - Re: Is D2A out of business? (Tim Olson)
6. 06:59 AM - Re: Work Table Size (johngoodman)
7. 07:07 AM - Re: Is D2A out of business? (SteinAir, Inc.)
8. 11:30 AM - ELT? (John Gonzalez)
9. 12:14 PM - Re: ELT? (Les Kearney)
10. 12:37 PM - Re: ELT? (Rick)
11. 12:52 PM - Re: ELT? (Larry Rosen)
12. 01:11 PM - Lubricating master cylinder components for assembly (Chris Johnston)
13. 01:14 PM - Re: ELT? (John Gonzalez)
14. 06:43 PM - California Breakfast (Scott Schmidt)
15. 07:39 PM - Re: ELT? (rv10builder)
16. 11:03 PM - Cowling Mod Photos (Dave Saylor)
Message 1
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I am wondering how many others are in the same
situation I find myself if indeed D2A have stopped
trading?
I took advantage of their Sun n' Fun offer (SV-10 plus
either FreeFlight GPS or Trutrak Digitrak 2 VSVG a/p
head) and ordered the SV-10 with the Trutrak autopilot
head - my intention being to upgrade to a Sorcerer.
The system was due for delivery on the 28th of August.
This date was of course not met - production hold ups
- although eventually the system plus wiring loom was
sent to my dealer. D2A later supplied a FreeFlight
GPS receiver even though they were aware I wanted the
a/p. I'm not sure if my dealer has returned this but
I am in the fortunate position of not having either
the autopilot or the Pinpoint GADHRS all of which, of
course, I have paid in full for. When the wrong offer
equipment was sent, my dealer tried to contact D2A to
which they never replied. Interestingly, the customer
agent for him at D2A had just left the company.
I live in remote NW Australia so legal redress, if at
all possible, will be exceptionally difficult for me
to organise.
So yes, at least one customer is likely to be
finacially very disadvantaged and is awaiting
confirmation of where to next with great interest.
Despite this sad tale,
Season's Greetings to all,
Rodger
--- David McNeill <dlm46007@cox.net> wrote:
> check this
>
>
http://www.xbow.com/Support/Support_pdf_files/Service_Letter_NAV425-06-02.pdf
>
>
http://www.xbow.com/General_info/Info_pdf_files/AHRS425_Upgrade_Program.pdf
>
>
http://www.xbow.com/General_info/Info_pdf_files/D2A_Press_Release.pdf
>
>
>
Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Message 2
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There are apparently several of us in the same situation. I too "took
advantage" of the Sun n' Fun special. I'll have to find out from Stein
next week, exactly what I have on hand and just how bad my situation
is..
I'll continue to try and patiently await the info as it becomes
available and try and hope for a satisfactory outcome.
Byron #40253 Firewall forward (Avionics in question)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rodger Todd
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 7:28 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: D2A
I am wondering how many others are in the same
situation I find myself if indeed D2A have stopped
trading?
I took advantage of their Sun n' Fun offer (SV-10 plus
either FreeFlight GPS or Trutrak Digitrak 2 VSVG a/p
head) and ordered the SV-10 with the Trutrak autopilot
head - my intention being to upgrade to a Sorcerer.
The system was due for delivery on the 28th of August.
This date was of course not met - production hold ups
............
Message 3
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| Subject: | Surface Corrosion? |
The solution is to simply remove all of the plastic up front... Parts can't be
properly dimpled, riveted, or deburred with plastic in the way. In addition, if
you are planning to paint you'll end up buffing/sanding/scotch-briting every
inch of the surface anyway. So add lots of hours to an already long project by
oh-so-carefully removing plastic in nice straight lines?
If the corrosion is minor, just buff it out and move on. I had a few (one or
two) parts that also had this look and simply took a scotchbrite pad to it and
the primer did stick. No big deal as there are lots of other way harder things
to worry about.
Cheers,
Jay
Fuse panel ribs
Time: 04:26:00 AM PST US
From: "Bob Leffler" <rvmail@thelefflers.com>
Subject: Surface Corrosion?
Les's issue with corrosion reminded me of a topic I wanted to solicit
opinions from the list. I attended a RV builder's class a couple weeks
ago at Grov-Air in Indy. Troy Grover, the gentleman conducting the
class
stated that he has seen several RVs that have significant corrosion along
the lines were the vinyl wrap was removed by a soldering iron. His
conclusion was that dirt was collecting in the edge of the vinyl and
absorbing moisture. He stated that he's seen this in the last couple
kits
that have come through his shop.
Since my empennage kit is in route at the moment, I am thinking about the
approach I want to take. My current desire is to leave the vinyl on as
long
as possible to minimize scratching.
Does anyone know of anyone that has experienced corrosion along the lines
of
the vinyl that were cut with a soldering iron?
It seems like the only way to prevent the issue that Les has discovered
is
to remove the vinyl when you inventory, but I would think would have
disastrous effect of the quality of the surface.
I am very interested in hearing on how Van's handles Les's issue. I am
optimistic that they will replace the part for Les.
__________________________________________________
Message 4
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| Subject: | Is D2A out of business? |
Can someone summarize what happened in 100 words or less? I heard the words
legal and lost money used in the same sentence and that can't be good. Is
Chelton still shipping anything or are folks out of luck?
Jay
do not archive
1. There are no backorders at CFS to be shipped to D2A.
2. CFS has hired a manager for the experimental department which will
deal through dealers to individuals.
3. CFS is in the process of getting inventory.
4. Pricing for the system is planned to remain the same for the present.
5. Pinpoint GADAHRS to remain experimental.
6. CFS software will continue to support use of legacy sensors i.e. XBOW
425EX but hardware maintenance for those sensors is the manufacturers
responsibility.
7. Chelton will supply via their website; software upgrades and DB
updates.
THE FOLLOWING INFO DID NOT _REPEAT NOT _COME FROM CHELTON.
but was gleaned from other individuals in other conversations.
1. XBOW is supplying their AHRS for the AFS EFIS; if they make it
reliable for AFS, why not D2A?
2. There may be grounds for legal action against XBOW for those who
have, in hand, a 425EX.
3. About 80 Chelton systems were sold by D2A.
4. Service for the IDUs will be available as both CFS and the IDU
supplier to D2A are still in business.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
__________________________________________________
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Is D2A out of business? |
Jay,
It would definitely take more than 100 words to give a good description.
The short of it is that D2AV was taking money and not ordering systems
(they did not manufacture them themselves). Chelton's current position
is that since nobody ordered systems from them (nobody being D2AV), that
they really aren't much involved in this whole fiasco. But Chelton
does have systems, and can have them delivered soon, including the AHRS,
for customers willing to buy through the dealers (NOT through D2AV).
The kicker to that is, regardless of the fact that Chelton was not
directly involved in the financial screwing that happened, they will
absolutely have to be involved in the solution, or they will find that
not only will the future customers go away, but the dealers that can
buy from them will not be interested in dealing with them either if
they didn't participate in the "healing process".
So yes, right now the dealers are working with the lawyers to develop
strategies and determine options.
Meanwhile, all of the above, and below, and everything else is in
complete limbo until the Holidays are over, so there really isn't going
to be much more news than that until at least next week at the
earliest. That means it's still really too early to determine if
anyone is out of luck. Everyone might be down on their luck today,
but until a solid answer is obtained, nobody knows if they lost anything
yet...other than time.
History has shown many examples of people losing lots of money to
companies in this business....from Kits, to Engines, and other
things as well. Hopefully this one will have a different outcome.
On a side note, I was thinking that I'm not actually in this
same boat, since I have a fully delivered and well-working system.
But I realized recently that there actually is one item in my panel
that is a "temporary", from another well-known company, and my order
was taken pre-production back in about May 2005 and it has yet to
show. It's a minor inconvenience for me, but it does help keep
my perspective on how some people must be feeling today. Hopefully
CFS's new years resolution is to not let any of these customers
walk away without working systems.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Jay Brinkmeyer wrote:
>
> Can someone summarize what happened in 100 words or less? I heard the words
> legal and lost money used in the same sentence and that can't be good. Is
> Chelton still shipping anything or are folks out of luck?
>
> Jay
> do not archive
>
> 1. There are no backorders at CFS to be shipped to D2A.
> 2. CFS has hired a manager for the experimental department which will
> deal through dealers to individuals.
> 3. CFS is in the process of getting inventory.
> 4. Pricing for the system is planned to remain the same for the present.
> 5. Pinpoint GADAHRS to remain experimental.
> 6. CFS software will continue to support use of legacy sensors i.e. XBOW
> 425EX but hardware maintenance for those sensors is the manufacturers
> responsibility.
> 7. Chelton will supply via their website; software upgrades and DB
> updates.
>
>
> THE FOLLOWING INFO DID NOT _REPEAT NOT _COME FROM CHELTON.
>
> but was gleaned from other individuals in other conversations.
>
> 1. XBOW is supplying their AHRS for the AFS EFIS; if they make it
> reliable for AFS, why not D2A?
> 2. There may be grounds for legal action against XBOW for those who
> have, in hand, a 425EX.
> 3. About 80 Chelton systems were sold by D2A.
> 4. Service for the IDUs will be available as both CFS and the IDU
> supplier to D2A are still in business.
>
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Work Table Size |
rvbuilder(at)sausen.net wrote:
> I'm curious. Is there a reason that everyone is using copper and other metal
pipe for their air runs? Good ole SCH 40 PVC from just about any hardware store
is rated for several times the PSI you will ever see from your compressor.
Use half inch PVC and you will be done in half the time at a fraction of the
cost.
>
> Michael
>
> --
PVC is a no-no. If it ever fails, it will shatter; think of glass. Metal will only
rupture. When I was planning my system, I happened to be in a military shop
and asked one of the guys about their air system. He happened to be the safety
guy and he gave me the whole speech. His recommendation was black iron pipe.
There was a reason for not using galvanized but I've forgotten why.
John
--------
#40572 Empennage - Starting tailcone.
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=84212#84212
Message 7
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| Subject: | Is D2A out of business? |
Guys,
If you're a customer of mine in this situation you should be receiving
updates DIRECTLY from me. If you haven't drop me a line off list and we'll
make sure you're added to my distribution. If you are not one of my
customers, I would strongly urge you to speak to your dealer. Also, the "I
heard from reliable sources" or "gleaned from other conversations" is NOT a
good source of information right now.
Even the "facts" as presented below may not be entirely 100% accurate, so
I'd urge people to first be patient until we have all the facts. Second,
don't trust any information in this matter unless it comes directly (and I
mean DIRECT in the 1st person and even then ONLY from 1 or 2 key executives)
from D2A, Chelton Flight Systems or your dealer. Until next week we won't
know much at all, so anything at this point is still conjecture as to the
outcome/result of this. Posts by individuals not from D2A, CFS, Xbow,
etc...can NOT be counted on as being factual and accurate. Even then, be
carefull that it is info that is coming from the appropriate persons mouth.
Anyway, just wanted to urge everyone to stay calm. I'm a bit alarmed to see
everything below being circulated because some of it is a bit dubious at
best and not necessarily 100% accurate.
As I said before, I'll try to keep all my customers as updated as I can.
Best Regards,
Stein.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jay Brinkmeyer
>Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:09 AM
>To: RV10
>Subject: RV10-List: Is D2A out of business?
>
>
>
>Can someone summarize what happened in 100 words or less? I heard the words
>legal and lost money used in the same sentence and that can't be good. Is
>Chelton still shipping anything or are folks out of luck?
>
>Jay
>do not archive
>
> 1. There are no backorders at CFS to be shipped to D2A.
> 2. CFS has hired a manager for the experimental department
>which will
> deal through dealers to individuals.
> 3. CFS is in the process of getting inventory.
> 4. Pricing for the system is planned to remain the same for
>the present.
> 5. Pinpoint GADAHRS to remain experimental.
> 6. CFS software will continue to support use of legacy
>sensors i.e. XBOW
> 425EX but hardware maintenance for those sensors is the
>manufacturers
> responsibility.
> 7. Chelton will supply via their website; software upgrades and DB
> updates.
>
>
> THE FOLLOWING INFO DID NOT _REPEAT NOT _COME FROM CHELTON.
>
> but was gleaned from other individuals in other conversations.
>
> 1. XBOW is supplying their AHRS for the AFS EFIS; if they make it
> reliable for AFS, why not D2A?
> 2. There may be grounds for legal action against XBOW for those who
> have, in hand, a 425EX.
> 3. About 80 Chelton systems were sold by D2A.
> 4. Service for the IDUs will be available as both CFS and the IDU
> supplier to D2A are still in business.
>
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>
>
Message 8
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A quick question for those in the know.
Is there electrical wiring that goes to the ELT to maintain a charge on the
ELT's battery or is there simply the internal battery in the unit which it
runs off off in mishap?
Thanks,
John G.
Message 9
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John
My ELT (in my Cherokee) has an internal battery that is replaced on a
scheduled basis. The ELT is also recertified every year. There is no
external power source to it.
Cheers
Les Kearney
RV10 # 40643 - Lost in the empennage
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 12:29 PM
Subject: RV10-List: ELT?
A quick question for those in the know.
Is there electrical wiring that goes to the ELT to maintain a charge on the
ELT's battery or is there simply the internal battery in the unit which it
runs off off in mishap?
Thanks,
John G.
Message 10
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John,
My 450 only has "D" batteries and basically a "phone cord" that runs from the ELT
to the panel mounted switch. Only other connector is the antenna lead.
Rick S.
40185
Message 11
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I am using the AmeriKing ELT (AK-450). It requires no power wiring. It
is powered by the D size alkaline batteries. It does require a coax
cable to the antenna (that I will mount in under the far rear tail
fairing) and a RJ11 wire (phone wire and jacks) that goes from the ELT
(mounted near the battery) to the remote display (mounted in the
panel). Here is a link to the installation manual
<http://www.ameri-king.com/pdf/9.1.22.pdf>
Larry Rosen
#356
John Gonzalez wrote:
>
> A quick question for those in the know.
>
> Is there electrical wiring that goes to the ELT to maintain a charge
> on the ELT's battery or is there simply the internal battery in the
> unit which it runs off off in mishap?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John G.
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Lubricating master cylinder components for assembly |
hey all -
am i correct in assuming that i can use automotive ATF as an "assembly
lube" for assembling the Matco master cylinders? i'm planning on using
MIL-PRF-83282 fluid for the brake system instead of the standard
MIL-H-5606G (keepin the brake fires at bay!) but fer now, i just need to
re-assemble the master cylinders after i powdercoated them, and i need
some lube! what say you all?
thanks
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
do not archive
Message 13
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Thanks Guys, I throw in some line to pull the cable through later.
Appreciate it.
John
Do Not Archive
>From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: ELT?
>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 15:53:56 -0500
>
>
>I am using the AmeriKing ELT (AK-450). It requires no power wiring. It is
>powered by the D size alkaline batteries. It does require a coax cable to
>the antenna (that I will mount in under the far rear tail fairing) and a
>RJ11 wire (phone wire and jacks) that goes from the ELT (mounted near the
>battery) to the remote display (mounted in the panel). Here is a link to
>the installation manual <http://www.ameri-king.com/pdf/9.1.22.pdf>
>
>Larry Rosen
>#356
>
>John Gonzalez wrote:
>>
>>A quick question for those in the know.
>>
>>Is there electrical wiring that goes to the ELT to maintain a charge on
>>the ELT's battery or is there simply the internal battery in the unit
>>which it runs off off in mishap?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>John G.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | California Breakfast |
I know this is short notice but I was wondering if any of you had a
recommendation for a good fly-in breakfast. I flew down to Redlands
Muni today and wanted to take my brother and sister-in-law for breakfast
somewhere tomorrow (Saturday) morning. I know there are a few
resturants around but is there one that is better than the other?
Thanks in advance
-Scott Schmidt
N104XP
Message 15
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While we're on the subject, is there any real compelling reason to
install a 406Mhz ELT (other than the obvious COSPAS-SARSAT discontinued
service in 02/09?). I don't recall ever hearing of a GA aircraft being
located with the assistance of satellites, and I'm not clear if this is
a mandate. One other question...is one mfg. of ELT considered "trash"
whereas another as "treasure"?
Brian
#40308
John Gonzalez wrote:
>
> A quick question for those in the know.
>
> Is there electrical wiring that goes to the ELT to maintain a charge
> on the ELT's battery or is there simply the internal battery in the
> unit which it runs off off in mishap?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John G.
>
>
> .
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Cowling Mod Photos |
We just finished a mod I really like. Here is our big oil door.
It takes about 30 seconds to open, a lot longer than a single latch but I
like being able to see so much on preflight.
Still have to seal the hinge forward of the baffle...any suggestions?
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
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