Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:00 AM - Cabin Cover Aft Flange Fit (Niko)
2. 07:10 AM - Re: Re: Empennage (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
3. 07:40 AM - Re: Re: Empennage (John W. Cox)
4. 07:55 AM - Re: Re: Empennage (Phillips, Jack)
5. 08:04 AM - Soldering (John Ackerman)
6. 08:11 AM - Re: Re: Empennage (John Gonzalez)
7. 08:16 AM - Canopy (Fred Williams, M.D.)
8. 08:18 AM - Re: Re: Empennage (John Gonzalez)
9. 08:27 AM - Re: Re: Empennage - James Cowl (Chris Johnston)
10. 08:37 AM - Re: Re: Empennage (Niko)
11. 08:39 AM - Re: Re: Empennage (Mark Ritter)
12. 08:40 AM - Re: Re: Empennage (Paul Grimstad)
13. 08:55 AM - Re: Re: Empennage (Bill & Tami Britton)
14. 09:09 AM - Re: Re: Empennage (Sean Stephens)
15. 09:09 AM - Re: Re: Empennage (Dj Merrill)
16. 09:26 AM - Re: Re: Empennage (Mike Lauritsen - Work)
17. 09:28 AM - Re: Re: Empennage (Werner Schneider)
18. 09:50 AM - Re: Re: Empennage (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
19. 09:57 AM - Re: Re: Empennage (cloudvalley@comcast.net)
20. 10:09 AM - Re: Re: Empennage (Tom Deutsch)
21. 10:18 AM - Re: Re: Empennage (John Gonzalez)
22. 10:18 AM - Re: Re: Empennage (linn Walters)
23. 10:25 AM - Re: Re: Empennage (Niko)
24. 10:49 AM - Re: Cabin Cover Aft Flange Fit (Deems Davis)
25. 10:54 AM - Re: Re: Empennage (John W. Cox)
26. 10:57 AM - Re: Re: Empennage - James Cowl (Deems Davis)
27. 11:03 AM - Re: Re: Empennage (Deems Davis)
28. 11:12 AM - Re: Cabin Cover Aft Flange Fit (DejaVu)
29. 11:14 AM - Re: Re: Re: Empennage ()
30. 11:16 AM - Re: Panel install (John Jessen)
31. 11:22 AM - Re: Re: Empennage (Mike Lauritsen - Work)
32. 11:34 AM - Re: Re: Empennage (cloudvalley@comcast.net)
33. 11:58 AM - Re: Computer Wars (Pascal)
34. 12:16 PM - Re: James Cowl & plenum (Chris Johnston)
35. 12:17 PM - Re: Re: Empennage (Mike Lauritsen - Work)
36. 12:28 PM - Re: Re: Empennage (John W. Cox)
37. 12:31 PM - Re: Computer Wars (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
38. 12:54 PM - Re: Computer Wars (John W. Cox)
39. 01:05 PM - Re: Cabin Cover Aft Flange Fit (Niko)
40. 01:31 PM - Re: Re: Derburring Rib Flange Slots (John Jessen)
41. 01:36 PM - Re: James Cowl & plenum (Deems Davis)
42. 01:53 PM - Re: Re: Empennage (Werner Schneider)
43. 02:07 PM - Re: Re: Empennage (Paul Grimstad)
44. 02:48 PM - Firewall covering (John W. Cox)
45. 03:33 PM - Re: Re: Empennage (John Testement)
46. 03:49 PM - Re: James Cowl & plenum (ddddsp1@juno.com)
47. 03:58 PM - Re: James Cowl & plenum (James Hein)
48. 04:16 PM - Re: Re: Empennage (David Maib)
49. 04:22 PM - Re: James Cowl & plenum (John W. Cox)
50. 04:34 PM - Re: Firewall covering (Chris Johnston)
51. 04:36 PM - Re: James Cowl & plenum (David Maib)
52. 04:37 PM - RV-10 - Bushing installation in flap supports (Tim Lewis)
53. 04:59 PM - Re: Re: Empennage (Jae Chang)
54. 05:18 PM - Re: Firewall covering (John W. Cox)
55. 05:32 PM - Re: James Cowl & plenum (Deems Davis)
56. 05:53 PM - Re: James Cowl & plenum (Deems Davis)
57. 06:02 PM - Re: Firewall covering (Chris Johnston)
58. 07:41 PM - Re: Re: Empennage (Niko)
59. 08:03 PM - Re: Re: Empennage (Dave Leikam)
60. 09:09 PM - Control Stick interference (Rob Wright)
61. 09:23 PM - Re: Empennage (John Ackerman)
62. 10:52 PM - Re: Firewall covering (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Lorenz_Malmstr=F6m?=)
63. 10:54 PM - Re: Re: Empennage (Jesse Saint)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Cabin Cover Aft Flange Fit |
I have been fitting the Cabin Cover on this past weekend. The fit of the C
abin Cover aft flange to the tailcone skin is good at the top of the cabin
cover however it opens up a bit (1/8) as one gets to the bottom of the Cabi
n cover aft flange. There is still enough edge distance for the fasteners
left (about 1/4 in).=0A=0AI am wondering if thats typicall of what others h
ave seen. =0A=0AThanks=0A=0ANiko=0A40188
Message 2
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That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of completion
they build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%, so I only
provide this link for informational purposes and you can do with it what
you want to....
http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price
list and options available.
Dan
N289DT
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and
>they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it
>certified here though.
>Dan
>
Dan,
"They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention of
this $85K on Van's (?) website.
William Curtis -SB about to fit lid
http://nerv10.com/
Message 3
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My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested
and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment
complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter
weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges,
improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards.
This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right
thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up to
the Builder's QC standard. We are the builders. I understand that $700
is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl.
John Cox
#40600
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel
R.
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of completion
they build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%, so I only
provide this link for informational purposes and you can do with it what
you want to....
http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price
list and options available.
Dan
N289DT
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and
>they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it
>certified here though.
>Dan
>
Dan,
"They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention of
this $85K on Van's (?) website.
William Curtis -SB about to fit lid
http://nerv10.com/
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 4
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I would be interested, depending on cost. I also intend to buy a Wholly
Cowl for my RV-10.
Jack Phillips
#40610
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested
and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment
complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter
weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges,
improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards.
This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right
thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up to
the Builder's QC standard. We are the builders. I understand that $700
is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl.
John Cox
#40600
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel
R=2E
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of completion
they build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%, so I only
provide this link for informational purposes and you can do with it what
you want to....
http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price
list and options available.
Dan
N289DT
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and
>they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it
>certified here though.
>Dan
>
Dan,
"They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention of
this $85K on Van's (?) website.
William Curtis -SB about to fit lid
http://nerv10.com/
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i
n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any
other use of the email by you is prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
Message 5
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Here's a compilation of links on how to (or not to) solder.
I only looked at a couple - sorta juvenile, but could be useful.
http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2007/1/14/6613
Message 6
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I see a new war on the horizon.
I would imagine that they could build an almost completed shell, ship it to
you in a container and one would have to unrivet a lot of the work inorder
to get the wiring and systems inplace.
The pictures just go to show how big a business this really is. I
personally am happy for the 51% rule and I am happy I am taking advantage of
it.
Whining because I only put in about 11 hours last weekend.
Is anyone running anything under the pilot and co pilot floors before I
close them up??????
John G. 409
need some fuel for the brain-motivation, chemical, spiritual or emotional.
EEEHHHHH!
MAybe need a break, maybe a trip to Hawaii would be good.
>From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR@wernerco.com>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 10:10:00 -0500
>
>That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of completion
>they build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%, so I only
>provide this link for informational purposes and you can do with it what
>you want to....
>http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price
>list and options available.
>Dan
>N289DT
>
> _____
>
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis
>Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM
>To: RV10-List@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>
>
> >They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and
> >they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it
> >certified here though.
> >Dan
> >
>Dan,
>
>"They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention of
>this $85K on Van's (?) website.
>William Curtis -SB about to fit lid
>http://nerv10.com/
>
>
Message 7
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I'd be interested in a different canopy if it had a better fit/mods.
Why not? Time is time and it sounds like a lot of time is spent on
finishing the canopy and the doors. I do enjoy the building process but
I do want to fly when I run out of parts.
Fred Williams
40515 Wings
Message 8
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Haven't started on this section, but if things are as bad as people say, I
would be interested in a better part. Price is an issue, but if the new part
is that much improved and does as it claims, the value is realized and worth
it.
The vertical stab faring was almost a quarter of an inch short in its
intersection with the rudder, that was unexceptable for me and I spend
atleast two or more hours increasing its length.
John G.
>From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 07:38:18 -0800
>
>My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested
>and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment
>complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter
>weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges,
>improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards.
>
>
>This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right
>thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up to
>the Builder's QC standard. We are the builders. I understand that $700
>is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl.
>
>
>John Cox
>#40600
>
>________________________________
>
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel
>R.
>Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>
>
>That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of completion
>they build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%, so I only
>provide this link for informational purposes and you can do with it what
>you want to....
>
>http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price
>list and options available.
>
>Dan
>
>N289DT
>
>
>________________________________
>
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis
>Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM
>To: RV10-List@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>
> >They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and
> >they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it
> >certified here though.
> >Dan
> >
>Dan,
>
>"They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention of
>this $85K on Van's (?) website.
>William Curtis -SB about to fit lid
>http://nerv10.com/
>
>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics
>.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | RE: Empennage - James Cowl |
Just thought I'd chime in here - I just sent my check off for my Sam
James RV-10 Cowl, and I do have my standard cowl here as well, so when
the new cowl comes I'll give a pirep and snap some pics illustrating the
differences in quality and shape. I got the RV-10 cowl for the
standard, not the cold air induction. We'll see.
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillips,
Jack
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:53 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
I would be interested, depending on cost. I also intend to buy a Wholly
Cowl for my RV-10.
Jack Phillips
#40610
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested
and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment
complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter
weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges,
improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards.
This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right
thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up to
the Builder's QC standard. We are the builders. I understand that $700
is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl.
John Cox
#40600
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel
R.
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of completion
they build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%, so I only
provide this link for informational purposes and you can do with it what
you want to....
http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price
list and options available.
Dan
N289DT
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and
>they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it
>certified here though.
>Dan
>
Dan,
"They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention of
this $85K on Van's (?) website.
William Curtis -SB about to fit lid
http://nerv10.com/
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have
received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands
- N
Message 10
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|
| Subject: | Re: RE: Empennage |
Hi John,=0A=0A I haven't thought about this much, however, for a considerab
ly lighter graphite canopy thats "almost ready to rivet in place" with an o
verhead similar to what Accuracy Avionics provides here is where how much I
would be willing to part with.=0A=0A- at 1K to 2K above Vans rebate it wou
ld be a great deal and a no brainer for me.=0A- at 3K to 4K above Vans reba
te I would have to think about it. Depends on how much lighter, and how go
od the fit is.=0A- at 5K above Vans rebate it would a bit expensive to just
ify.=0A=0ANiko=0A40188=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: John W.
Cox <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday,
January 15, 2007 10:38:18 AM=0ASubject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage=0A=0A
=0AMy question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested a
nd how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment complet
e which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter weight, roll
bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges, improved locks with f
itment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards.=0A =0AThis would like r
emain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right thing by crediting buil
ders who find the composite components not up to the Builder=92s QC standar
d. We are the builders. I understand that $700 is the customary rebate fo
r those going with a Wholly Cowl.=0A =0AJohn Cox =0A#40600 =0A=0A=0A=0AFrom
: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matro
nics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R.=0ASent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:
10 AM=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
=0A =0AThat is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of complet
ion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%, so I only
provide this link for informational purposes and you can do with it what yo
u want to....=0Ahttp://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them
for a price list and options available.=0ADan=0AN289DT=0A =0A=0A=0A=0AFrom:
owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matron
ics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis=0ASent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM
=0ATo: RV10-List@matronics.com=0ASubject: RV10-List: RE: Empennage=0A>They
do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and=0A>they h
ave it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it=0A>certified h
ere though.=0A>Dan =0A>=0ADan,=0A=0A"They" who and to which website are you
r referring? I see no mention of this $85K on Van's (?) website.=0AWilliam
Curtis -SB about to fit lid=0Ahttp://nerv10.com/ =0A =0A =0Ahref="http://
www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?R
V10-List=0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
=0A =0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Li
================
Message 11
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I just put some sound proofing material down before closing them up.
Mark
>From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 08:11:33 -0800
>
>
>I see a new war on the horizon.
>
>I would imagine that they could build an almost completed shell, ship it to
>you in a container and one would have to unrivet a lot of the work inorder
>to get the wiring and systems inplace.
>
>The pictures just go to show how big a business this really is. I
>personally am happy for the 51% rule and I am happy I am taking advantage
>of it.
>
>Whining because I only put in about 11 hours last weekend.
>
>Is anyone running anything under the pilot and co pilot floors before I
>close them up??????
>
>John G. 409
>
>
>need some fuel for the brain-motivation, chemical, spiritual or emotional.
>EEEHHHHH!
>MAybe need a break, maybe a trip to Hawaii would be good.
>
>
>>From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR@wernerco.com>
>>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>>Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 10:10:00 -0500
>>
>>That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of completion
>>they build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%, so I only
>>provide this link for informational purposes and you can do with it what
>>you want to....
>>http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price
>>list and options available.
>>Dan
>>N289DT
>>
>> _____
>>
>>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis
>>Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM
>>To: RV10-List@matronics.com
>>Subject: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>>
>>
>> >They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and
>> >they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it
>> >certified here though.
>> >Dan
>> >
>>Dan,
>>
>>"They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention of
>>this $85K on Van's (?) website.
>>William Curtis -SB about to fit lid
>>http://nerv10.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Type your favorite song. Get a customized station. Try MSN Radio powered
by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Empennage |
John
Van's quick build kits are $4,800 for wings and $6,000 for the fuselage.
I gather from what advanced builders say about the fiberglass
experience, that a well designed and ready to install cabin cover, with
an improved door system should cost near the range of the other Van's
Q/B kits. Say $5K for starters. The real draw will probably be the
design, plus workmanship and ease of installation. The spinner, cowling
and plenum, again nicely crafted and designed with improved air handling
intake and oversized easy to open dip stick access should fetch just
North of $2K.
How does weight compare for the C/F vs F/G?
Excellent fit and finish that match the quality of the airplanes we are
building would be great. Where do I place my order?
Paul Grimstad
RV10 40450 rudder pedals and fuselage
Portland, OR 97219
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. Cox
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:38 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested
and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment
complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter
weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges,
improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards.
This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right
thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up to
the Builder's QC standard. We are the builders. I understand that $700
is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl.
John Cox
#40600
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel
R.
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of
completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%,
so I only provide this link for informational purposes and you can do
with it what you want to....
http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price
list and options available.
Dan
N289DT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM
To: RV10-List@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders
and
>they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it
>certified here though.
>Dan
>
Dan,
"They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention
of this $85K on Van's (?) website.
William Curtis -SB about to fit lid
http://nerv10.com/
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://foru
ms.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | Re: RE: Empennage |
So far up to this point I have decided to go slow build on the metal
kits (wing and fuse) because I enjoy that part of it. Money is also an
issue. However, I have absolutely no experience with fiberglass/carbon
fiber so I would definitely be interested. Some of the money I save on
the slow build kits could be put into a QB canopy. If you can come up
with something PLEASE keep us informed!!!
At the rate I'm building I won't need the parts until about April 2012
anyway so I'll give you plenty of time!!!
Bill
RV-10 Emp #40137
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. Cox
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:38 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested
and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment
complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter
weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges,
improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards.
This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right
thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up to
the Builder's QC standard. We are the builders. I understand that $700
is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl.
John Cox
#40600
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel
R.
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of
completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%,
so I only provide this link for informational purposes and you can do
with it what you want to....
http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price
list and options available.
Dan
N289DT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM
To: RV10-List@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders
and
>they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it
>certified here though.
>Dan
>
Dan,
"They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention
of this $85K on Van's (?) website.
William Curtis -SB about to fit lid
http://nerv10.com/
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://foru
ms.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
1/15/2007 11:04 AM
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Empennage |
> need some fuel for the brain-motivation, chemical, spiritual or
> emotional. EEEHHHHH!
> MAybe need a break, maybe a trip to Hawaii would be good.
>
We took a trip to Hawaii last April. Careful, it eats into the plane
budget very fast!
-Sean #40303 (Kit still in storage waiting on new factory completion)
New Plane Factory Pics... <http://www.flickr.com/photos/stephensville/
sets/72157594379221777/>
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Empennage |
Bill & Tami Britton wrote:
> At the rate I'm building I won't need the parts until about April 2012
> anyway so I'll give you plenty of time!!!
Sounds like you are at least a decade ahead of me... ;-)
-Dj
do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Empennage |
I would be interested. I stand firmly behind the word and spirit of the 51%
rule. However I love aluminum and hate the glass. I am building a slow
build kit (read very very slow) so if I could buy a completed lid and door
system that was ready to rivet on I would jump on it and I would still be in
the 51%. Same with cowl, pants, fairings... If it could be done to the
point of super quality work primed and ready to paint it would be worth the
money for me, after all what did I save on the QB aluminum parts?
Mike
-----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John W. Cox
> *Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>
>
> My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested and
> how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment complete
> which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter weight, roll
> bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges, improved locks with
> fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards.
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Empennage |
Niko,
be veeeeeeeeeeery careful to rivet a carbon fiber part onto aluminum
with aluminum rivets. Between carbon and aluminum you have a large
difference in electrical potential, this will cause severe corrosion of
the aluminum part.
So some sort of glass inserts and coverage of the carbon needs to be
done to avoid bad surprises or a coating of the aluminum of some kind..
br
Werner
Niko wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> I haven't thought about this much, however, for a considerably
> lighter graphite canopy thats "almost ready to rivet in place" with an
> overhead similar to what Accuracy Avionics provides here is where how
> much I would be willing to part with.
>
> - at 1K to 2K above Vans rebate it would be a great deal and a no
> brainer for me.
> - at 3K to 4K above Vans rebate I would have to think about it.
> Depends on how much lighter, and how good the fit is.
> - at 5K above Vans rebate it would a bit expensive to justify.
>
> Niko
> 40188
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: John W. Cox <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38:18 AM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>
> My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested
> and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment
> complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter
> weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges,
> improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards.
>
>
>
> This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right
> thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up
> to the Builder's QC standard. We are the builders. I understand that
> $700 is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl.
>
>
>
> */ John Cox /*
> */#40600/*
>
> * From: * owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Lloyd,
> Daniel R.
> *Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>
>
>
> That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of
> completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for
> 51%, so I only provide this link for informational purposes and you
> can do with it what you want to....
>
> http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price
> list and options available.
>
> Dan
>
> N289DT
>
>
>
> * From: * owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *W. Curtis
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM
> *To:* RV10-List@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>
>>They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and
>>they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it
>>certified here though.
>>Dan
>>
> Dan,
>
> "They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention
> of this $85K on Van's (?) website.
> William Curtis -SB about to fit lid
> http://nerv10.com/
>
>* *
>
>* *
>
>* href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List *
>
>* href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com *
>
>* *
>
>* *
>
>* *
>
>* *
>
>* *
>
>* *
>
>* *
>
>* *
>
>* *
>
>* http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List *
>
>* *
>
>* *
>
>* *
>
>* http://forums.matronics.com *
>
>* *
>
>* *
>
>* http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List===
>
> *
>
>
>*
>
>
> *
>
Message 18
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|
John
For myself I would be willing to pay a $3-4K premium for a better top
with doors and console already fit, final trim to mount. Much more than
that I would be hard pressed not to do it myself.
Dan
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested
and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment
complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter
weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges,
improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards.
This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right
thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up to
the Builder's QC standard. We are the builders. I understand that $700
is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl.
John Cox
#40600
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel
R.
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of completion
they build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%, so I only
provide this link for informational purposes and you can do with it what
you want to....
http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price
list and options available.
Dan
N289DT
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and
>they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it
>certified here though.
>Dan
>
Dan,
"They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention of
this $85K on Van's (?) website.
William Curtis -SB about to fit lid
http://nerv10.com/
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
Message 19
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|
Hello,
My wife and I would be interested in this better fiberglass canopy and cowl. We
would like to know how much additional cost there would be, and who manufactures
them. We are not nearly at that point yet, but we want to keep infomed.
Just finished our empennage
Brian and Ruth Preston
#40666
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested and how
much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment complete which meets
the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter weight, roll bars included,
overhead air plenum, improved hinges, improved locks with fitment and alignment
up to 21 century QC standards.
This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right thing by crediting
builders who find the composite components not up to the Builders QC
standard. We are the builders. I understand that $700 is the customary rebate
for those going with a Wholly Cowl.
John Cox
#40600
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R.
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of completion they build
it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%, so I only provide this link
for informational purposes and you can do with it what you want to....
http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price list and options available.
Dan
N289DT
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and
>they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it
>certified here though.
>Dan
>
Dan,
"They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention of this $85K
on Van's (?) website.
William Curtis -SB about to fit lid
http://nerv10.com/
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
<html><body>
<DIV>Hello,</DIV>
<DIV>My wife and I would be interested in this better fiberglass canopy and cowl.
We would like to know how much additional cost there would be, and who
manufactures them. We are not nearly at that point yet, but we want to
keep infomed. Just finished our empennage</DIV>
<DIV>Brian and Ruth Preston</DIV>
<DIV>#40666</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "John W. Cox"
<johnwcox@pacificnw.com> <BR>
<META content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered)" name=Generator>
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<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My question remains unanswered. How
many builders would be interested and how much might they pay for an improved
canopy with door fitment complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule?
Carbon fiber, lighter weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved
hinges, improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This would like remain predicated on VANS
continuing to do the right thing by crediting builders who find the composite
components not up to the Builders QC standard. We are the builders.
I understand that $700 is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly
Cowl.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<P><B><I><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=3><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT:
bold; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-STYLE: italic">John Cox</SPAN></FONT></I></B><FONT
color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy"> <BR><B><I><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT:
bold; FONT-STYLE: italic">#40600</SPAN></I></B> </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Lloyd, Daniel R.<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> rv10-list@matronics.com<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">That is because
it is not offered through Vans. The level of completion they build it to would
not meet the US requirements for 51%, so I only provide this link for informational
purposes and you can do with it what you want to....</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><A href="http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm">http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm</A> contact them for a price list and options available.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Dan</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">N289DT</SPAN></FONT></P>
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style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>W. Curtis<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> RV10-List@matronics.com<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RV10-List: RE: Empennage</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">>They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and<BR>>they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it<BR>>certified here though.<BR>>Dan <BR>><BR>Dan,<BR><BR>"They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention of this $85K on Van's (?) website.<BR>William Curtis -SB about to fit lid<BR>http://nerv10.com/ </SPAN></FONT></P><PRE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT></B></PRE><PRE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT></B></PRE><PRE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: bl
ack">h
ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List</SPAN></FONT></B></PRE><PRE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black">href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com</SPAN></FONT></B></PRE><PRE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT></B></PRE><PRE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT></B></PRE><PRE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT></B></PRE><PRE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN ="====</span"></FONT></B></PRE><PRE
style
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E styl
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Message 20
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Just thought I would add that I am just finishing my wheel, leg, and
intersection fairings for paint. Between install and lining them up and
getting them ready for final paint I believe this has been the most time
consuming of all the single tasks so far. (as stated previously it is
much easier to mount and line them before the engine is hung and the
wings are on) So for those who haven't gotten this far don't get hug up
on the top and doors.
IMHO the Van's kits are much easier than any of the other kits out
there. 30 or 40 hours working on the cover and doors isn't much.
Besides it is good glass experience if you ever need to make a repair.
Tom Deutsch, #40545
Office 913 451-1222
Fax 913 451-6493
Cell 913 908-7752
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Grimstad
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
John
Van's quick build kits are $4,800 for wings and $6,000 for the fuselage.
I gather from what advanced builders say about the fiberglass
experience, that a well designed and ready to install cabin cover, with
an improved door system should cost near the range of the other Van's
Q/B kits. Say $5K for starters. The real draw will probably be the
design, plus workmanship and ease of installation. The spinner, cowling
and plenum, again nicely crafted and designed with improved air handling
intake and oversized easy to open dip stick access should fetch just
North of $2K.
How does weight compare for the C/F vs F/G?
Excellent fit and finish that match the quality of the airplanes we are
building would be great. Where do I place my order?
Paul Grimstad
RV10 40450 rudder pedals and fuselage
Portland, OR 97219
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. Cox <mailto:johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:38 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be
interested and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door
fitment complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber,
lighter weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved
hinges, improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC
standards.
This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the
right thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not
up to the Builder's QC standard. We are the builders. I understand
that $700 is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl.
John Cox
#40600
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel
R.
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of
completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%,
so I only provide this link for informational purposes and you can do
with it what you want to....
http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a
price list and options available.
Dan
N289DT
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM
To: RV10-List@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB
builders and
>they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get
it
>certified here though.
>Dan
>
Dan,
"They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no
mention of this $85K on Van's (?) website.
William Curtis -SB about to fit lid
http://nerv10.com/
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Empennage |
Thanks for the photos. Obviously we are all so lucky to have the resources
to build planes. Of course many just buy them and some buy a few of them.
The house looks great and that foundation look awesome aswell.
Oh, nice family also. You too have your plate full.
John g
>From: Sean Stephens <sean@stephensville.com>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 11:08:21 -0600
>
>
>>need some fuel for the brain-motivation, chemical, spiritual or
>>emotional. EEEHHHHH!
>>MAybe need a break, maybe a trip to Hawaii would be good.
>>
>
>We took a trip to Hawaii last April. Careful, it eats into the plane
>budget very fast!
>
>-Sean #40303 (Kit still in storage waiting on new factory completion)
>
>New Plane Factory Pics... <http://www.flickr.com/photos/stephensville/
>sets/72157594379221777/>
>
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Empennage |
Interesting thread. I haven't seen my FG parts ..... yet ...... but I
see no difference between learning to dimple/deburr, rivet, solder, bend
tubing accurately, paint, or any other construction activity and
learning to do fiberglas work. I fail to see the problem, I guess.
Well, I see a small problem in that it's time consuming and a fairly
dirty (dusty) task, but if you wanted to fly so soon, you'd have
certificated spam can with it's inherent drawbacks. And you won't have
learned a thing. I have lots of FG experience (far more than I want)
and pr4obably won't learn much ..... but I'll do it anyway. I find
fitting FG parts infinitely easier than trying to fit poorly made
aluminum or steel parts. However, there shouldn't be ANY poorly made
parts ..... and Van should be troubled about purchasing and shipping
poorly made parts. The cabin top manufacturer may not take as much
pride in the interior finish as he does on the exterior (or may not care
about either side!!!) because it'll be covered by interior or finish
sanded for paint. What I read as part of this thread ..... about gobs
of epoxy without any glass cloth or voids between layers is
unacceptable, in my mind, and is just poor workmanship on the part of
the manufacturer. Thoughts of MY FG parts coming to me like that just
don't give me a warm fuzzy feeling.
Linn
do not archive
Mike Lauritsen - Work wrote:
>
> I would be interested. I stand firmly behind the word and spirit of
> the 51% rule. However I love aluminum and hate the glass. I am
> building a slow build kit (read very very slow) so if I could buy a
> completed lid and door system that was ready to rivet on I would jump
> on it and I would still be in the 51%. Same with cowl, pants,
> fairings... If it could be done to the point of super quality work
> primed and ready to paint it would be worth the money for me, after
> all what did I save on the QB aluminum parts?
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of John
> W. Cox
> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>
>
>
> My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be
> interested and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with
> door fitment complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule?
> Carbon fiber, lighter weight, roll bars included, overhead air
> plenum, improved hinges, improved locks with fitment and alignment
> up to 21 century QC standards.
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Empennage |
Thanks for the advice Werner. I actually had no intention of using aluminu
m rivets on the graphite. That's not a show stopper though, we can use ste
el rivets, better yet, titanium ones if they are available or maybe do som
ething really different and bond it in place. It will probably have a high
er joint strength than the current pop riveted one.=0A=0A I have already d
one a lot of work on my cabin top so I am not in the market for another one
just trying to answer the question John asked.=0A =0ANiko=0A40188=0A=0A---
-- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>=0ATo: r
v10-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, January 15, 2007 12:27:34 PM=0ASubje
ct: Re: RV10-List: RE: Empennage=0A=0ANiko,=0A=0Abe veeeeeeeeeeery careful
to rivet a carbon fiber part onto aluminum with aluminum rivets. Between ca
rbon and aluminum you have a large difference in electrical potential, this
will cause severe corrosion of the aluminum part.=0A=0ASo some sort of gla
ss inserts and coverage of the carbon needs to be done to avoid bad surpris
es or a coating of the aluminum of some kind..=0A=0Abr=0A=0AWerner=0A=0ANik
o wrote: =0AHi John,=0A =0A I haven't thought about this much, however, for
a considerably lighter graphite canopy thats "almost ready to rivet in pla
ce" with an overhead similar to what Accuracy Avionics provides here is whe
re how much I would be willing to part with.=0A =0A- at 1K to 2K above Vans
rebate it would be a great deal and a no brainer for me.=0A- at 3K to 4K a
bove Vans rebate I would have to think about it. Depends on how much light
er, and how good the fit is.=0A- at 5K above Vans rebate it would a bit exp
ensive to justify.=0A =0ANiko=0A40188=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----
=0AFrom: John W. Cox <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.com
=0ASent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38:18 AM=0ASubject: RE: RV10-List: RE:
Empennage=0A=0A=0AMy question remains unanswered. How many builders would
be interested and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door
fitment complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, ligh
ter weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges, impro
ved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards. =0A
=0AThis would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right thi
ng by crediting builders who find the composite components not up to the Bu
ilder=92s QC standard. We are the builders. I understand that $700 is the
customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl. =0A =0AJohn Cox =0A#
40600 =0AFrom: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list
-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R.=0ASent: Monday, Januar
y 15, 2007 7:10 AM=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: RV10-List:
RE: Empennage =0A =0AThat is because it is not offered through Vans. The l
evel of completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for
51%, so I only provide this link for informational purposes and you can do
with it what you want to.... =0Ahttp://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.h
tm contact them for a price list and options available. =0ADan =0AN289DT
=0A =0AFrom: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis=0ASent: Sunday, January 14, 20
07 11:37 PM=0ATo: RV10-List@matronics.com=0ASubject: RV10-List: RE: Empenna
ge =0A>They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders a
nd=0A>they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it=0A
>certified here though.=0A>Dan =0A>=0ADan,=0A=0A"They" who and to which web
site are your referring? I see no mention of this $85K on Van's (?) website
.=0AWilliam Curtis -SB about to fit lid=0Ahttp://nerv10.com/ =0A =0A
=0A href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matron
ics.com/Navigator?RV10-List =0A href="http://forums.matronics.com">http:/
/forums.matronics.com =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A h
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List =0A =0A =0A =0A http://forum
s.matronics.com =0A =0A =0A http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
=======
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin Cover Aft Flange Fit |
Niko, that's exactly what I experienced. The plans say to trim (3/4"?)
from the joggle, but it appears that the joggle is off as if meets the
fuse side skins. There is still enough edge distance for the pop rivets
and the backing strip fit without any twisting.
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
http://deemsrv10.com/
Niko wrote:
> I have been fitting the Cabin Cover on this past weekend. The fit of
> the Cabin Cover aft flange to the tailcone skin is good at the top of
> the cabin cover however it opens up a bit (1/8) as one gets to the
> bottom of the Cabin cover aft flange. There is still enough edge
> distance for the fasteners left (about 1/4 in).
>
> I am wondering if thats typicall of what others have seen.
>
> Thanks
>
> Niko
> 40188
>
>*
>
>
>*
>
Message 25
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If we follow Brent Regan's philosophy on the continued need for secrecy
of the owners of Pinpoint Inertia and the D2 controversy, you would
never know who makes what your dollars go for. Using Dave Hertner's
philosophy you will know and will not be required to fund 100% before
production. You will have recourse upon receipt if it is not exactly
what you contracted for.
Based on this company's record, before the order is fulfilled, I would
think they would let the whole world know. Knowledge can be a good
thing. If VAN was listening, they would immediately implement a QC of
parts before shipment and maybe a committee of builders to be the final
review of what is slipping out the door.
The marketplace is always the best place for a resolution. There are
still 700 builders yet to struggle with these unique areas which beckon
an improvement.
Just doing some market research before the mold building process begins.
It would be another Oregon company. That may or may not be a good thing
but we still have no Sales Tax. If you like Pilipino workmanship it can
be made over there and imported back to Oregon. It would have to be
unmistakably 51% compliant to the new rules when adopted next month.
John Cox
#40600
Do not Archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cloudvalley@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:57 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
Hello,
My wife and I would be interested in this better fiberglass canopy and
cowl. We would like to know how much additional cost there would be,
and who manufactures them. We are not nearly at that point yet, but we
want to keep infomed. Just finished our empennage
Brian and Ruth Preston
#40666
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be
interested and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door
fitment complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber,
lighter weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved
hinges, improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC
standards.
This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the
right thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not
up to the Builder's QC standard. We are the builders. I understand
that $700 is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl.
John Cox
#40600
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel
R.
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of
completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%,
so I only provide this link for informational purposes and you can do
with it what you want to....
http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a
price list and options available.
Dan
N289DT
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM
To: RV10-List@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB
builders and
>they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get
it
>certified here though.
>Dan
>
Dan,
"They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no
mention of this $85K on Van's (?) website.
William Curtis -SB about to fit lid
http://nerv10.com/
h
ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics
.
com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Empennage - James Cowl |
Here's a link to pics of my Will James Cowl, arrived Fri. A QUALITY
part! (Will makes the Cowls & Sam (his father) makes the Plenum)
http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2047%20Spinner%20and%20Cowling/index.html
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
http://deemsrv10.com/
Chris Johnston wrote:
> Just thought Id chime in here I just sent my check off for my Sam
> James RV-10 Cowl, and I do have my standard cowl here as well, so when
> the new cowl comes Ill give a pirep and snap some pics illustrating
> the differences in quality and shape. I got the RV-10 cowl for the
> standard, not the cold air induction. Well see.
>
> cj
>
> #40410
>
> fuse
>
> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Phillips,
> Jack
> *Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 7:53 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>
> I would be interested, depending on cost. I also intend to buy a
> Wholly Cowl for my RV-10.
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> #40610
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John W. Cox
> *Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>
> My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested
> and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment
> complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter
> weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges,
> improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards.
>
> This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right
> thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up
> to the Builders QC standard. We are the builders. I understand that
> $700 is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl.
>
> */John Cox/*
> */#40600/*
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Lloyd,
> Daniel R.
> *Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>
> That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of
> completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for
> 51%, so I only provide this link for informational purposes and you
> can do with it what you want to....
>
> http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price
> list and options available.
>
> Dan
>
> N289DT
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *W. Curtis
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM
> *To:* RV10-List@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>
>>They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and
>>they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it
>>certified here though.
>>Dan
>>
> Dan,
>
> "They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention
> of this $85K on Van's (?) website.
> William Curtis -SB about to fit lid
> http://nerv10.com/
>
>* *
>
>* *
>
>*href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
>*href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
>* *
>
>* *
>
>* *
>
>*< /span>< /span>< /span>< /span>< /span>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
>*< /span>< /span>http://forums.matronics.com*
>
>* *
>
>* *
>
>* *
>
>*< /span>< /span>< /span>< /span>< /span>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
>*< /span>< /span>http://forums.matronics.com*
>
>* *
>
>* *
>
>*_________________________________________________*
>
>* *
>
>
>* *
>
>*Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N*
>
>* *
>
>* *
>
>**
>
>* - The RV10-List Email Forum -*
>
>**
>
>**
>
>**
>
>**
>
>* --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
>**
>
>* - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -*
>
>**
>
>* --> http://forums.matronics.com*
>
>**
>
>* *
>
>*
>
>
>*
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Empennage |
$2K would be a bargain! a 14" composite spinner is $1k, the James Cowl
is $1200 and the plenum is $475 (add shipping to all of those $'s). Add
the cost of the Carbon fiber ($$) and I think you would expect to pay
more like $4k + for that package.
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
http://deemsrv10.com/
Paul Grimstad wrote:
> John
>
> The spinner, cowling and plenum, again nicely crafted and designed
> with improved air handling intake and oversized easy to open dip stick
> access should fetch just North of $2K.
>
>
>*
>*
>
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: Cabin Cover Aft Flange Fit |
Niko,
Not sure what you mean by "it opens up 1/8". I don't remember having such
trouble. However, any time you have many mediums meet, such as on the side
s where the cover meet the tailcone skin and side skins, it gets thick and
takes a little time to get it right.
Anh
N591VU-6.5hrs
----- Original Message -----
From: Niko
To: Matronics
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:59 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Cabin Cover Aft Flange Fit
I have been fitting the Cabin Cover on this past weekend. The fit of the
Cabin Cover aft flange to the tailcone skin is good at the top of the cabi
n cover however it opens up a bit (1/8) as one gets to the bottom of the Ca
bin cover aft flange. There is still enough edge distance for the fastener
s left (about 1/4 in).
I am wondering if thats typicall of what others have seen.
Thanks
Niko
40188
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: RE: Empennage |
My empennage kit is currently someplace between Omaha and Chicago, so I haven't
really even thought about this yet. However, Niko's logic seems to be in line
with how I might view the situation.
bob
>
> From: Niko <owl40188@yahoo.com>
> Date: 2007/01/15 Mon AM 11:36:26 EST
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>
> Hi John,
> I haven't thought about this much, however, for a considerably lighter graphite
canopy thats "almost ready to rivet in place" with an overhead similar to
what Accuracy Avionics provides here is where how much I would be willing to part
with.
> - at 1K to 2K above Vans rebate it would be a great deal and a no brainer for
me.
> - at 3K to 4K above Vans rebate I would have to think about it. Depends on how
much lighter, and how good the fit is.
> - at 5K above Vans rebate it would a bit expensive to justify.
> Niko
> 40188
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: John W. Cox <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38:18 AM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>
> My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested and how
much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment complete which
meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter weight, roll bars included,
overhead air plenum, improved hinges, improved locks with fitment and alignment
up to 21 century QC standards.
>
> This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right thing by
crediting builders who find the composite components not up to the Builders QC
standard. We are the builders. I understand that $700 is the customary rebate
for those going with a Wholly Cowl.
>
> John Cox
> #40600
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R.
> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>
> That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of completion they
build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%, so I only provide this
link for informational purposes and you can do with it what you want to....
> http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price list and options available.
> Dan
> N289DT
>
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis
> Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM
> To: RV10-List@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
> >They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and
> >they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it
> >certified here though.
> >Dan
> >
> Dan,
> "They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention of this
$85K on Van's (?) website.
> William Curtis -SB about to fit lid
> http://nerv10.com/
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Li================
>
Message 30
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|
Yeow! Except for a couple switch types and placements, that's almost
exactly what I had designed. Great job! Good ergonomics.
John Jessen
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Edgerton
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 8:59 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Panel install
My first send of this message got kicked back to me saying that it was to
large with the attachments I had so I've cut it down, I hope, to size. If
any of you would like to see any of the other install pictures just e-mail
me and I will forward them to you.
Lets try this again :>}
----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne <mailto:wayne.e@grandecom.net> Edgerton
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 7:07 AM
Subject: Panel install
We are in the process of installing my instrument panel and I thought I
would share a couple of photos with you. Stein's group built my panel and
even though it has been a while in the making, it was well worth the wait
for me. I think it turned out great. I'm certainly glad I didn't have to
rely on my skill set to install this puppy or I would be in the deep you
know what. I'm pretty much a neophyte when it comes to electrical stuff.
For me it's seems at times I can get frustrated with the process and the
delays one runs into in this journey we are all taking but when you see it
coming together like this it all pops back into focus that this thing maybe
is really going to fly someday :>}
Stein was telling me that he just wrote an article for Kit Plane Magazine
about panel building and installation and he said they will use some of the
photos from my instrument install in that article.
If some of you are like me and only receive the daily Matronics summary,
which usually doesn't include photo attachments, and you would like to see
the photos I'm sending, just e-mail me and I will forward them on to you.
Wayne Edgerton #40336
getting the itch to fly this puppy
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Empennage |
I wanted to make clear that I am not complaining about the stock fiberglass
parts. I just see others experiences and the time they spend with the
parts. I have messed with the glass just enough to know that I really don't
like working with it, and don't want to spend my time there. I don't want
the kit price to go up so that the stock parts get better. I am positive
from my 15 years in the market that working with it is well within the realm
of the average builder. In my situation I would just like to see an after
market solution to fill a small part of the market that would like a 'quick
build' fiberglass kit.
Mike
On 1/15/07, Mike Lauritsen - Work <mike@cleavelandtool.com> wrote:
>
>
> I would be interested. I stand firmly behind the word and spirit of the
> 51% rule. However I love aluminum and hate the glass. I am building a slow
> build kit (read very very slow) so if I could buy a completed lid and door
> system that was ready to rivet on I would jump on it and I would still be in
> the 51%. Same with cowl, pants, fairings... If it could be done to the
> point of super quality work primed and ready to paint it would be worth the
> money for me, after all what did I save on the QB aluminum parts?
>
> Mike
>
>
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: RE: Empennage |
Hello,
If the stock parts of FG are as bad as I am hearing, I would complain. The kit
costs a lot of money, and there is a lot of time involved in building it. I would
like to see more QC if workmanship is the issue with the FG. I hope VANs
gets this resolved. I have not bought the main part of the kit yet; I was told
that the fiberglass is easy by VANs. I hope that turns out to be true,
Brian and Ruth
#40666
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Mike Lauritsen - Work" <mike@cleavelandtool.com>
I wanted to make clear that I am not complaining about the stock fiberglass parts.
I just see others experiences and the time they spend with the parts. I
have messed with the glass just enough to know that I really don't like working
with it, and don't want to spend my time there. I don't want the kit price
to go up so that the stock parts get better. I am positive from my 15 years in
the market that working with it is well within the realm of the average builder.
In my situation I would just like to see an after market solution to fill
a small part of the market that would like a 'quick build' fiberglass kit.
Mike
On 1/15/07, Mike Lauritsen - Work <mike@cleavelandtool.com> wrote:
I would be interested. I stand firmly behind the word and spirit of the 51% rule.
However I love aluminum and hate the glass. I am building a slow build kit
(read very very slow) so if I could buy a completed lid and door system that
was ready to rivet on I would jump on it and I would still be in the 51%. Same
with cowl, pants, fairings... If it could be done to the point of super quality
work primed and ready to paint it would be worth the money for me, after
all what did I save on the QB aluminum parts?
Mike
<html><body>
<DIV>Hello,</DIV>
<DIV> If the stock parts of FG are as bad as I am hearing, I would complain.
The kit costs a lot of money, and there is a lot of time involved in building
it. I would like to see more QC if workmanship is the issue with
the FG. I hope VANs gets this resolved. I have not bought the main part of the
kit yet; I was told that the fiberglass is easy by VANs. I hope that turns out
to be true,</DIV>
<DIV>Brian and Ruth</DIV>
<DIV>#40666</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Mike Lauritsen
- Work" <mike@cleavelandtool.com> <BR>I wanted to make clear that I
am not complaining about the stock fiberglass parts. I just see others experiences
and the time they spend with the parts. I have messed with the
glass just enough to know that I really don't like working with it, and don't
want to spend my time there. I don't want the kit price to go up so that
the stock parts get better. I am positive from my 15 years in the market
that working with it is well within the realm of the average builder.
In my situation I would just like to see an after market solution to fill a
small part of the market that would like a 'quick build' fiberglass kit. <BR><BR>Mike<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 1/15/07, <B class=gmail_sendername>Mike Lauritsen - Work</B> <<A href="mailto:mike@cleavelandtool.com">mike@cleavelandtool.com</A>> wrote:</SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;
BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV>
<DIV><BR>I would be interested. I stand firmly behind the word and spirit
of the 51% rule. However I love aluminum and hate the glass. I am
building a slow build kit (read very very slow) so if I could buy a completed
lid and door system that was ready to rivet on I would jump on it and I would
still be in the 51%. Same with cowl, pants, fairings... If it could
be done to the point of super quality work primed and ready to paint it would
be worth the money for me, after all what did I save on the QB aluminum parts?
<BR><SPAN class=sg><BR>Mike<BR><BR><BR></SPAN></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><PRE><B><FONT
face="courier new,courier" color=#000000 size=2>
</B></FONT></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Computer Wars |
http://x-plane.com/weapon.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Hukill
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 8:12 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Computer Wars
At the risk of starting a whole new war, let me say that I use Macs
for all of my audio, video, photography needs. Just try it and you'll
see why. My PCs are used only for business software compatibility
issues, but I still run Windows 98 so I can maintain SCSI support for
some of my old, pre USB / Firewire gear, and more importantly, because
most of the a**holes that write bugs don't bother with '98 anymore.
Chris Hukill
still in home remodel hiatus
back to gear fairings,soon
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | James Cowl & plenum |
Hey Deems -
Are you using the plenum? I've not really decided, and was wondering if
others had thoughts about it. I don't know much about the mechanics of
it, but it seems like it'd improve cooling etc. Also it (I guess) would
reduce stress on the cowl and attachments, as the plenum is pressurized
and not the entire cowl. Am I incorrect here? What about inspecting
the engine through the oil filler hole? You wouldn't see the top of the
engine there - is that a bummer? Also, doesn't the engine get hot where
it gets close to the plenum? Is this a problem? I'd love any info
before I go calling Sam about it.
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Empennage - James Cowl
Here's a link to pics of my Will James Cowl, arrived Fri. A QUALITY
part! (Will makes the Cowls & Sam (his father) makes the Plenum)
http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2047%20Spinner%20and%20Cowling/index.html
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
http://deemsrv10.com/
Chris Johnston wrote:
> Just thought I'd chime in here - I just sent my check off for my Sam
> James RV-10 Cowl, and I do have my standard cowl here as well, so when
> the new cowl comes I'll give a pirep and snap some pics illustrating
> the differences in quality and shape. I got the RV-10 cowl for the
> standard, not the cold air induction. We'll see.
>
> cj
>
> #40410
>
> fuse
>
> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Phillips,
> Jack
> *Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 7:53 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>
> I would be interested, depending on cost. I also intend to buy a
> Wholly Cowl for my RV-10.
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> #40610
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John W.
Cox
> *Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>
> My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested
> and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment
> complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter
> weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges,
> improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC
standards.
>
> This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right
> thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up
> to the Builder's QC standard. We are the builders. I understand that
> $700 is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl.
>
> */John Cox/*
> */#40600/*
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Lloyd,
> Daniel R.
> *Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>
> That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of
> completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for
> 51%, so I only provide this link for informational purposes and you
> can do with it what you want to....
>
> http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price
> list and options available.
>
> Dan
>
> N289DT
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *W. Curtis
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM
> *To:* RV10-List@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>
>>They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and
>>they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it
>>certified here though.
>>Dan
>>
> Dan,
>
> "They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention
> of this $85K on Van's (?) website.
> William Curtis -SB about to fit lid
> http://nerv10.com/
>
>* *
>
>* *
>
>*href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
>*href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
>* *
>
>* *
>
>* *
>
>*< /span>< /span>< /span>< /span><
/span>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
>*< /span>< /span>http://forums.matronics.com*
>
>* *
>
>* *
>
>* *
>
>*< /span>< /span>< /span>< /span><
/span>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
>*< /span>< /span>http://forums.matronics.com*
>
>* *
>
>* *
>
>*_________________________________________________*
>
>* *
>
>
>* *
>
>*Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese -
Nederlands - N*
>
>* *
>
>* *
>
>**
>
>* - The RV10-List Email Forum -*
>
>**
>
>**
>
>**
>
>**
>
>* --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
>**
>
>* - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -*
>
>**
>
>* --> http://forums.matronics.com*
>
>**
>
>* *
>
>*
>
>
>*
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Empennage |
Again 'bad' is a relative term. In 1988 I remember Buzz cutting each
wingtip on the -4 down the chord line, then in half again, and glassing them
back together to get them to fit right. Compared to that the new stuff is
'good'. But the whole kit was around $6000 then too. So do you want the
kit cost to go up to get better parts or do you want to put in the work? I
don't think that it should be a mandatory change for everyone, but rather an
after market offering if there is someone willing to provide it.
On 1/15/07, cloudvalley@comcast.net <cloudvalley@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> If the stock parts of FG are as bad as I am hearing, I would complain.
> The kit costs a lot of money, and there is a lot of time involved in
> building it. I would like to see more QC if workmanship is the issue with
> the FG. I hope VANs gets this resolved. I have not bought the main part of
> the kit yet; I was told that the fiberglass is easy by VANs. I hope that
> turns out to be true,
> Brian and Ruth
> #40666
>
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Mike Lauritsen - Work" <mike@cleavelandtool.com>
> I wanted to make clear that I am not complaining about the stock
> fiberglass parts. I just see others experiences and the time they spend
> with the parts. I have messed with the glass just enough to know that I
> really don't like working with it, and don't want to spend my time there. I
> don't want the kit price to go up so that the stock parts get better. I am
> positive from my 15 years in the market that working with it is well within
> the realm of the average builder. In my situation I would just like to see
> an after market solution to fill a small part of the market that would like
> a 'quick build' fiberglass kit.
>
> Mike
>
>
> On 1/15/07, Mike Lauritsen - Work <mike@cleavelandtool.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I would be interested. I stand firmly behind the word and spirit of the
> > 51% rule. However I love aluminum and hate the glass. I am building a slow
> > build kit (read very very slow) so if I could buy a completed lid and door
> > system that was ready to rivet on I would jump on it and I would still be in
> > the 51%. Same with cowl, pants, fairings... If it could be done to the
> > point of super quality work primed and ready to paint it would be worth the
> > money for me, after all what did I save on the QB aluminum parts?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Mike Lauritsen
Cleaveland Aircraft Tool
515-432-6794
www.cleavelandtool.com
Message 36
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Mike your perspective is a fresh and as objective a view as anyone could
find in this industry. At a point, many builders might opt out of the
process as the QB prices climb. This would be good for no one.
Clearly, there are builders who will willingly convert money for time
saved. There are several factors at work in the market research. How in
the world did so many builders throw money at products without knowing
who was getting the money and if the product would ever be shipped? The
second is how can a great company let products which could clearly be
improved, remain somewhat inferior and prone to premature failure?
Cracks in ribs and exposure of matrix material does not make for an
acceptable product mix. A pattern which beckons for improvement, this
then causes market corrections in both Direction and Velocity. Simply
the Facts.
I would bet most of the builders did not ever question the D2
relationship as it bloomed into its current configuration. I lusted
after the robust features of EFIS in my own kit. Most supporters are
those who got their products. Most detractors are those who are holding
a partially empty bag. I would also bet that most builders are not even
aware of how many canopies have been returned and replaced to correct
defects of either manufacture or shipping. These are all good points to
share in an open and free flowing forum. Now, If I lived across the
great pond.... My hearing would be even more attuned during these times
of atmospheric static. Anyone heard of how many RV-10 kits have gone to
South Africa?
Your work at providing products and tools has made my build experience
more enjoyable. Thank you.
Market forces help shape both quality, price and quantity. Why even the
non creditable, mandated Oregon Aero seat has improvements to the latch
mechanism from outside the company. It has been heartening to see the
improvements in the James composite products and how many builders are
opting for the "improved over factory" product. I too support 51% rules
and oppose production shops that flaunt their violation in pursuit of a
buck. I will continue to be patient that the wolves guarding the hen
house have all of us egg layers best interests at heart.
Just imagine OSHkosh Control acknowledging a formation of 700+ RV-10s
off Warbird Island coming in for a mass landing at OSH some sunny
afternoon in July.
John Cox
#600
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Lauritsen - Work
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
I wanted to make clear that I am not complaining about the stock
fiberglass parts. I just see others experiences and the time they spend
with the parts. I have messed with the glass just enough to know that I
really don't like working with it, and don't want to spend my time
there. I don't want the kit price to go up so that the stock parts get
better. I am positive from my 15 years in the market that working with
it is well within the realm of the average builder. In my situation I
would just like to see an after market solution to fill a small part of
the market that would like a 'quick build' fiberglass kit.
Mike
On 1/15/07, Mike Lauritsen - Work <mike@cleavelandtool.com> wrote:
I would be interested. I stand firmly behind the word and spirit of the
51% rule. However I love aluminum and hate the glass. I am building a
slow build kit (read very very slow) so if I could buy a completed lid
and door system that was ready to rivet on I would jump on it and I
would still be in the 51%. Same with cowl, pants, fairings... If it
could be done to the point of super quality work primed and ready to
paint it would be worth the money for me, after all what did I save on
the QB aluminum parts?
Mike
Message 37
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Designed by MAC to run on a PC! Ain't life grand, you have to design for
the masses, and the masses chose Microsoft/Intel.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Computer Wars
http://x-plane.com/weapon.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Hukill <mailto:cjhukill@cox.net>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 8:12 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Computer Wars
At the risk of starting a whole new war, let me say that I use
Macs for all of my audio, video, photography needs. Just try it and
you'll see why. My PCs are used only for business software
compatibility issues, but I still run Windows 98 so I can maintain SCSI
support for some of my old, pre USB / Firewire gear, and more
importantly, because most of the a**holes that write bugs don't bother
with '98 anymore.
Chris Hukill
still in home remodel hiatus
back to gear fairings,soon
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 38
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Pascal, Oh that loving look and the desperate clutch of a true X-planer.
Nicely done.. was that five part harmony?
John Cox
#600
Do not Archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Computer Wars
http://x-plane.com/weapon.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Hukill <mailto:cjhukill@cox.net>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 8:12 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Computer Wars
At the risk of starting a whole new war, let me say that I use
Macs for all of my audio, video, photography needs. Just try it and
you'll see why. My PCs are used only for business software
compatibility issues, but I still run Windows 98 so I can maintain SCSI
support for some of my old, pre USB / Firewire gear, and more
importantly, because most of the a**holes that write bugs don't bother
with '98 anymore.
Chris Hukill
still in home remodel hiatus
back to gear fairings,soon
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin Cover Aft Flange Fit |
View it as the overlap between the Cabin Cover aft flange and the tailcone
upper skin. Ideally this overlap should be about 0.70 inches all around (0
.050 inch gap is assumed here) for me its about 0.65 inches on the top cen
ter and goes down to 0.30 inches as you move down the sides. I don't think
it can be changed easily as the elevation angle of the Canopy Cover would
have to change (angle of attack) which would shift this problem along the
Cabin Side Flange to fuselage side skin attachment as the current fit there
is great. =0A=0AI hope this is clear.=0A=0A=0ANiko=0A=0A=0A----- Original
Message ----=0AFrom: DejaVu <wvu@ameritel.net>=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.c
om=0ASent: Monday, January 15, 2007 2:12:02 PM=0ASubject: Re: RV10-List: Ca
bin Cover Aft Flange Fit=0A=0A=0ANiko,=0ANot sure what you mean by "it open
s up 1/8". I don't remember having such trouble. However, any time you ha
ve many mediums meet, such as on the sides where the cover meet the tailcon
e skin and side skins, it gets thick and takes a little time to get it righ
t.=0AAnh=0AN591VU-6.5hrs=0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: Niko =0ATo
: Matronics =0ASent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:59 AM=0ASubject: RV10-List:
Cabin Cover Aft Flange Fit=0A=0A=0AI have been fitting the Cabin Cover on
this past weekend. The fit of the Cabin Cover aft flange to the tailcone s
kin is good at the top of the cabin cover however it opens up a bit (1/8) a
s one gets to the bottom of the Cabin cover aft flange. There is still eno
ugh edge distance for the fasteners left (about 1/4 in).=0A =0AI am wonderi
ng if thats typicall of what others have seen. =0A =0AThanks=0A =0ANiko=0A4
0188=0A=0A=0Ap://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List=0Aics.com=0A=0A=0A
========================
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Derburring Rib Flange Slots |
I use the Cogsdill and other than a couple broken blades, really like them.
However, I'd sure like some definitive yea or nea on the use of scotch brite
deburring-by-rubbing technique discussed awhile back, especially for those
using reamers. For those using the Cogsdill, I set my air at 20 pounds and
it seems to produce a just right rotation for the drill. I'm using a Sioux.
If anyone has an opinion on the correct rotational speed, I'd like to know.
John Jessen (he who is about to head back home and a weekend of building)
#328
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 2:07 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Derburring Rib Flange Slots
I Used the Cogsdill quite a bit and they were generally ok if you set the
tension correctly. They were always a bit fragile though and changing the
blade was a female dog. I don't know if the single step version of the
ezburr would be useful because you still need to take the pieces apart in
order to get both sides but their standard deburr tool looks greatly
improved and much beefier than the Cogsdill.
Michael Sausen
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Lauritsen -
Work
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Derburring Rib Flange Slots
Checking into it. Stock they start at 3/8". These cutters were designed to
use in a milling machine or a very rigid application. I know that builders
have had mixed results, some swear by them, some swear at them. I am
willing to try it to see if there is a better solution out there. For those
that use them, do you still deburr the two sides that are between the parts
(inside of the skin, outside of the substructure)?
Mike
On 1/12/07, Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com> wrote:
Hi Mike,
While you're talking about stocking things... I was on the ezburr
(www.ezburr.com <http://www.ezburr.com> ) website the other day and saw
that they will custom manufacture bits that drill and deburr in one step. I
didn't delve into it enough to determine the costs involved, but it seems to
me that it's something that you could pursue and offer to the builders if
the economies of scale work out.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
I was on the Burr Away
On Jan 12, 2007, at 7:08 AM, Mike Lauritsen - Work wrote:
If you guys want them, I can supply them. I found that both those and the
bristle disks will wear very quickly, thus I didn't think they were a good
value. But I am happy to stock anything that is in demand :) If you would
like them email me directly.
Thanks,
Mike
--
Mike Lauritsen
Cleaveland Aircraft Tool
515-432-6794
www.cleavelandtool.com
On 1/11/07, arthurww < arthur@cftech.co.uk <mailto:arthur@cftech.co.uk> >
wrote:
I think I may have found that magic tool...
3M (of course) do a 3mm thick unitized cut & polish wheel.
Available in 3 diameters 38, 50 & 75mm.
Tried one tonight in a right angle die grinder... seemed to work very well
and quite quick.
Regards
Arthur
--------
#40641 EMP
Read this topic online here:
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com"> <http://forums.matronics.com>
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
--
Mike Lauritsen
Cleaveland Aircraft Tool
515-432-6794
www.cleavelandtool.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: James Cowl & plenum |
This may be a case of the blind leading the blind, but here's what I've
learned.
Apart form aesthetics, the main reason for my going with the James cowl
& plenum was performance. there are no RV-10'd flying with it yet so
performance improvements are subjective. However there are enough RV 6.7
& 8's flying with them to indicate that the combination produces
anywhere between 5-10 mph. It would take a LOT of additional HP to get
the kind of an improvement.
The biggest portion of the improvement is attributable to the Plenum. I
don't begin to understand all of the fluid dynamic physics, but as Sam
explained to me, the 'secret is: with Wills cowl rings you get 32 sq
inchs of air entering the plenum, and you want 32 sq inches of area
around the bottom of the clys for the air to exit the 'pressurized'
portion. an imbalance with more air coming in than exiting results in
drag with the air going back out the front of the cowl. The advantages
of the plenum are that there is no 'leakage' between the baffling and
the top of the cowl. some measurements have indicated that as much as
50% of the cooling air can be lost through what otherwise appears to be
a tight fit between baffling material and the cowl. the leakage also
contributed to increased drag. Sam's cowl comes with templates for his
own baffling that mates to his cowl. His baffling templates are designed
to equalize/optimize the air entering the plenum and the air exiting.
Some builders have used Van's baffling kit and adapted it to Sam's
plenum, Sam strongly cautioned me against this, believing it was a
source of problems with the fitment of the plenum, and also with the
balance of the air flow. he quoted me the numbers on van's baffles and
the area around the bottom of each cyl was larger than the area he
designed in his plans. Another benefit of a properly functioning
plenum/baffle combo it better balanced cooling between cyls. I believe
the Sam indicates that cyl temps with his plenum should not vary by
more than 2% (!).
I've spoken w/ 2 -10 builders that had problems fitting Sam's plenum.
both used Van's baffle kit. I almost skipped ordering a plenum based on
their troubles. to Sam's credit, he remade plenums for both builders and
sent them at his expense. One builder seems satisfied and one isn't. I
spoke with both Will and Sam about the fittment situation, and they
called the builders and talked with additional builders and concluded
that the problems were most likely due to using Van's baffling. Will
told me " if you order one of our products and it doesn't work as it is
supposed to we will stay with you until it does"
So, Yes I have ordered Sam's Plenum,
Access (easy) to the top of the engine is a drawback of the plenum, ans
it derives its benefits from a 'hard' mounting to the baffling. (I've
got these pretty polished induction tubes, color coordinated plug wires,
custom painted crankcase, chrome valve covers, and it's all going to get
covered up. (I just remind myself that 5-10 mph is worth it!). The
epoxy/glass that Sam used is designed for the temps of the engine
compartment.
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
http://deemsrv10.com/
Chris Johnston wrote:
>
>Hey Deems -
>
>Are you using the plenum? I've not really decided, and was wondering if
>others had thoughts about it. I don't know much about the mechanics of
>it, but it seems like it'd improve cooling etc. Also it (I guess) would
>reduce stress on the cowl and attachments, as the plenum is pressurized
>and not the entire cowl. Am I incorrect here? What about inspecting
>the engine through the oil filler hole? You wouldn't see the top of the
>engine there - is that a bummer? Also, doesn't the engine get hot where
>it gets close to the plenum? Is this a problem? I'd love any info
>before I go calling Sam about it.
>
>cj
>#40410
>fuse
>www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
>Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:56 AM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Empennage - James Cowl
>
>
>Here's a link to pics of my Will James Cowl, arrived Fri. A QUALITY
>part! (Will makes the Cowls & Sam (his father) makes the Plenum)
>
>http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2047%20Spinner%20and%20Cowling/index.html
>
>Deems Davis # 406
>Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
>http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
>Chris Johnston wrote:
>
>
>
>>Just thought I'd chime in here - I just sent my check off for my Sam
>>James RV-10 Cowl, and I do have my standard cowl here as well, so when
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>the new cowl comes I'll give a pirep and snap some pics illustrating
>>the differences in quality and shape. I got the RV-10 cowl for the
>>standard, not the cold air induction. We'll see.
>>
>>cj
>>
>>#40410
>>
>>fuse
>>
>>www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>*From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Phillips,
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>Jack
>>*Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 7:53 AM
>>*To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>>*Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>>
>>I would be interested, depending on cost. I also intend to buy a
>>Wholly Cowl for my RV-10.
>>
>>Jack Phillips
>>
>>#40610
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>*From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John W.
>>
>>
>Cox
>
>
>>*Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38 AM
>>*To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>>*Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>>
>>My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested
>>and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment
>>complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter
>>weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges,
>>improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC
>>
>>
>standards.
>
>
>>This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right
>>thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up
>>to the Builder's QC standard. We are the builders. I understand that
>>$700 is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl.
>>
>>*/John Cox/*
>>*/#40600/*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>>*From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Lloyd,
>>Daniel R.
>>*Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM
>>*To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>>*Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>>
>>That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of
>>completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for
>>51%, so I only provide this link for informational purposes and you
>>can do with it what you want to....
>>
>>http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>list and options available.
>>
>>Dan
>>
>>N289DT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>>*From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *W. Curtis
>>*Sent:* Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM
>>*To:* RV10-List@matronics.com
>>*Subject:* RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>>
>>
>>
>>>They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and
>>>they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it
>>>certified here though.
>>>Dan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Dan,
>>
>>"They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention
>>of this $85K on Van's (?) website.
>>William Curtis -SB about to fit lid
>>http://nerv10.com/
>>
>>* *
>>
>>* *
>>
>>*href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matroni
>>
>>
>cs.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
>
>>*href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>>
>>* *
>>
>>* *
>>
>>* *
>>
>>*< /span>< /span>< /span>< /span><
>>
>>
>/span>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
>
>>*< /span>< /span>http://forums.matronics.com*
>>
>>* *
>>
>>* *
>>
>>* *
>>
>>*< /span>< /span>< /span>< /span><
>>
>>
>/span>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
>
>>*< /span>< /span>http://forums.matronics.com*
>>
>>* *
>>
>>* *
>>
>>*_________________________________________________*
>>
>>* *
>>
>>
>>* *
>>
>>*Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese -
>>
>>
>Nederlands - N*
>
>
>>* *
>>
>>* *
>>
>>**
>>
>>* - The RV10-List Email Forum -*
>>
>>**
>>
>>**
>>
>>**
>>
>>**
>>
>>* --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>>
>>**
>>
>>* - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -*
>>
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>>* --> http://forums.matronics.com*
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Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Empennage |
Hi Niko,
no intention of blaming you ;O) Carbon fiber is lightweight but needs to
be constructed in an intelligent way, I did in my Glastar replace the
seat pans with a Carbon/Kevlar mix, as the carbon has a low strength
perpendicular to the fibers. We had just a workshop on corrosion, had a
cut out piece of a F-5E spar in the hand, 7075 Alum with Titan rivets,
some of the Alum. started to develop corrosion inside the 7075 spar (ok
after 30 years so you might be save) but stainless steel rivet might do it.
What I've wanted to point out is, that if somebody develops a new
fiberglass top he needs to know the load on the part and construct it
accordingly. Doing a new cowling is one thing (as it is not a structural
part) but the cabin top is a structural part and needs to be done
accordingly.
Anyway just my 2 cents, keep on building and fly this beautiful plane,
my last plane took 2554hrs to complete some of it was fiberglass work.
br Werner
Niko wrote:
> Thanks for the advice Werner. I actually had no intention of using
> aluminum rivets on the graphite. That's not a show stopper though, we
> can use steel rivets, better yet, titanium ones if they are available
> or maybe do something really different and bond it in place. It will
> probably have a higher joint strength than the current pop riveted one.
>
> I have already done a lot of work on my cabin top so I am not in the
> market for another one just trying to answer the question John asked.
>
> Niko
> 40188
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 12:27:34 PM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>
> Niko,
>
> be veeeeeeeeeeery careful to rivet a carbon fiber part onto aluminum
> with aluminum rivets. Between carbon and aluminum you have a large
> difference in electrical potential, this will cause severe corrosion
> of the aluminum part.
>
> So some sort of glass inserts and coverage of the carbon needs to be
> done to avoid bad surprises or a coating of the aluminum of some kind..
>
> br
>
> Werner
>
> Niko wrote:
>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> I haven't thought about this much, however, for a considerably
>> lighter graphite canopy thats "almost ready to rivet in place" with
>> an overhead similar to what Accuracy Avionics provides here is where
>> how much I would be willing to part with.
>>
>> - at 1K to 2K above Vans rebate it would be a great deal and a no
>> brainer for me.
>> - at 3K to 4K above Vans rebate I would have to think about it.
>> Depends on how much lighter, and how good the fit is.
>> - at 5K above Vans rebate it would a bit expensive to justify.
>>
>> Niko
>> 40188
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: John W. Cox <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>> <mailto:johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38:18 AM
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>>
>> My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be
>> interested and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with
>> door fitment complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon
>> fiber, lighter weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum,
>> improved hinges, improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21
>> century QC standards.
>>
>>
>>
>> This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right
>> thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up
>> to the Builder's QC standard. We are the builders. I understand
>> that $700 is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl.
>>
>>
>>
>> */John Cox /*
>> */#40600/*
>>
>> *From: *owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Lloyd,
>> Daniel R.
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>>
>>
>>
>> That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of
>> completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for
>> 51%, so I only provide this link for informational purposes and you
>> can do with it what you want to....
>>
>> http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a
>> price list and options available.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> N289DT
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *W. Curtis
>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM
>> *To:* RV10-List@matronics.com <mailto:RV10-List@matronics.com>
>> *Subject:* RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>>
>>>They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and
>>>they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it
>>>certified here though.
>>>Dan
>>>
>> Dan,
>>
>> "They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention
>> of this $85K on Van's (?) website.
>> William Curtis -SB about to fit lid
>> http://nerv10.com/
>>
>>* *
>>
>>* *
>>
>>* href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List" <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List *
>>
>>* href="http://forums.matronics.com" <http://forums.matronics.com/>>http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/> *
>>
>>* *
>>
>>* *
>>
>>* *
>>
>>* *
>>
>>* *
>>
>>* *
>>
>>* *
>>
>>* *
>>
>>* *
>>
>>* http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List *
>>
>>* *
>>
>>* *
>>
>>* *
>>
>>* http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/> *
>>
>>* *
>>
>>* *
>>
>>* http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List==== *
>>
>>
>>* *
>>
>* http://==================== *
>
>
>*
>
>
> *
>
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Empennage |
Deems
I know your correct, but my estimating knowledge is a limited and John was
looking for builder input. When buying or bidding the rules of poker apply
and I guard my hand. We will know the value when we see the goods. Quality
will always sell.
Paul
450
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis@cox.net>
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>
> $2K would be a bargain! a 14" composite spinner is $1k, the James Cowl is
> $1200 and the plenum is $475 (add shipping to all of those $'s). Add the
> cost of the Carbon fiber ($$) and I think you would expect to pay more
> like $4k + for that package.
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
> Paul Grimstad wrote:
>
>> John
>> The spinner, cowling and plenum, again nicely crafted and designed with
>> improved air handling intake and oversized easy to open dip stick access
>> should fetch just North of $2K.
>>*
>>*
>>
>
>
>
Message 44
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| Subject: | Firewall covering |
Chris - as I was reviewing your website for cowl information and
pictures to balance with Deems great work, I noticed that you and
Bethany have a page on your website
http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Perfectlygoodairplane/Firewall%20Pa
inting.html that uses some interesting product. Can you expound with a
new thread?
John Cox
#40600
Chris Johnston wrote:
<CJohnston@popsound.com>
>
>Hey Deems -
>
>Are you using the plenum? I've not really decided, and was wondering
if
>others had thoughts about it. I don't know much about the mechanics of
>it, but it seems like it'd improve cooling etc. Also it (I guess)
would
>reduce stress on the cowl and attachments, as the plenum is pressurized
>and not the entire cowl. Am I incorrect here? What about inspecting
>the engine through the oil filler hole? You wouldn't see the top of
the
>engine there - is that a bummer? Also, doesn't the engine get hot
where
>it gets close to the plenum? Is this a problem? I'd love any info
>before I go calling Sam about it.
>
>cj
>#40410
>fuse
>www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
>Chris Johnston wrote:
>
>
>
>>Just thought I'd chime in here - I just sent my check off for my Sam
>>James RV-10 Cowl, and I do have my standard cowl here as well, so when
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>the new cowl comes I'll give a pirep and snap some pics illustrating
>>the differences in quality and shape. I got the RV-10 cowl for the
>>standard, not the cold air induction. We'll see.
>>
>>cj
>>
>>#40410
>>
>>fuse
>>
>>www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>>
Message 45
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John,
Sounds great. At the right price we would take one for our next Rv-10.
John
do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested
and
how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment
complete
which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter weight,
roll
bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges, improved locks with
fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards.
This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right
thing
by crediting builders who find the composite components not up to the
Builder=92s QC standard. We are the builders. I understand that $700
is the
customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl.
John Cox
#40600
--
1/15/2007
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: James Cowl & plenum |
Deems,
I never realized you were so interested in SPEED. Are you gonna race at
RENO with your 10? I bet you are gonna race John Cox in 2020 when he g
ets his RV10 done...............:) Haven't people told you that at our
age we are suppose to SLOW DOWN. You are retired....you don't have to
get there 20 minutes early. Seriously though, that plenum setup sounds
really ideal and will hopefully give you the speed and cooling that has
eluded some RV10 builders. You will be breaking new ground when you sta
rt flying. Hope you are ready for the POSTS from all the EXPERTS on thi
s list telling you your numbers CAN"T be real.
Keep sanding that fiberglass!
DEAN 40449
________________________________________________________________________
FREE Reminder Service - NEW from AmericanGreetings.com
Click HERE and never forget a Birthday or Anniversary again!
http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=197335&u=http://www.americangreetings.c
om/products/online_calendar.pd?c=uol5752
<html><P>Deems,</P>
<P>I never realized you were so interested in SPEED. Are you gonna
race at RENO with your 10? I bet you are gonna race John Cox in 2
020 when he gets his RV10 done...............:) Haven't peop
le told you that at our age we are suppose to SLOW DOWN. You are r
etired....you don't have to get there 20 minutes early. Seriously
though, that plenum setup sounds really ideal and will hopefully give yo
u the speed and cooling that has eluded some RV10 builders. You wi
ll be breaking new ground when you start flying. Hope you are read
y for the POSTS from all the EXPERTS on this list telling you your numbe
rs CAN"T be real.</P>
<P>Keep sanding that fiberglass!</P>
<P>DEAN 40449</P>
<font face="Times-New-Roman" size="2"><br><br>______________________
__________________________________________________<br>
<a href="http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=197335&u=http://www.american
greetings.com/products/online_calendar.pd?c=uol5752"><B>FREE</B> Remin
der Service - NEW from AmericanGreetings.com<br>
<B>Click HERE</B> and never forget a Birthday or Anniversary again!</a><
br></font>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: James Cowl & plenum |
Hey,
You'll slow down upon impact.... until then, Go Speed Racer Go!
-Jim do not archive
ddddsp1@juno.com wrote:
> Deems,
>
> I never realized you were so interested in SPEED. Are you gonna race
> at RENO with your 10? I bet you are gonna race John Cox in 2020 when
> he gets his RV10 done...............:) Haven't people told you that
> at our age we are suppose to SLOW DOWN. You are retired....you don't
> have to get there 20 minutes early. Seriously though, that plenum
> setup sounds really ideal and will hopefully give you the speed and
> cooling that has eluded some RV10 builders. You will be breaking new
> ground when you start flying. Hope you are ready for the POSTS from
> all the EXPERTS on this list telling you your numbers CAN"T be real.
>
> Keep sanding that fiberglass!
>
> DEAN 40449
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> *FREE* Reminder Service - NEW from AmericanGreetings.com
> *Click HERE* and never forget a Birthday or Anniversary again!
> <http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=197335&u=http://www.americangreetings.com/products/online_calendar.pd?c=uol5752>
>
>*
>
>
>*
>
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Empennage |
I would be very interested.
David Maib
#40559
On Jan 15, 2007, at 9:38 AM, John W. Cox wrote:
My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be
interested and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with
door fitment complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon
fiber, lighter weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum,
improved hinges, improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21
century QC standards.
This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right
thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up
to the Builder=92s QC standard. We are the builders. I understand
that $700 is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl.
John Cox
#40600
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R.
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of
completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for
51%, so I only provide this link for informational purposes and you
can do with it what you want to....
http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a
price list and options available.
Dan
N289DT
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and
>they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it
>certified here though.
>Dan
>
Dan,
"They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention
of this $85K on Van's (?) website.
William Curtis -SB about to fit lid
http://nerv10.com/
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://
www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
=========
Message 49
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| Subject: | James Cowl & plenum |
Dean -
Here is the gauntlet for 2007. Knots not MPH. 200.00 cruise in a
RV-10. That's head to head, over a defined course, same fuel load (60
US Gal). Block to Block just like Nextel Nascar.
Oh yeh, It's going to fall out of the sky from flutter issues, I keep
forgetting. Less weight, Less drag, stronger construction, more
efficient cooling, bigger grin. My money is on Deems and that is in
addition to all the beer that I owe Camp Condrey from such a pathetic
showing of completed RVs at OSH last summer. I am speculating that
Deems will win it, cause he can read those gigantic OP technologies
screens a millisecond quicker for engine tweaking.
Anyone else of us old timers notice the similarity between Chris Johnson
and James McClow. Main difference is in his continual grin, that of his
partner and the blazing progress he is making due to lack of spelling
errors. I think the secret is a passionate partner chasing the same
goal in the same house.
John Cox
the Turbanator #40600
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ddddsp1@juno.com
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: James Cowl & plenum
Deems,
I never realized you were so interested in SPEED. Are you gonna race at
RENO with your 10? I bet you are gonna race John Cox in 2020 when he
gets his RV10 done...............:) Haven't people told you that at
our age we are suppose to SLOW DOWN. You are retired....you don't have
to get there 20 minutes early. Seriously though, that plenum setup
sounds really ideal and will hopefully give you the speed and cooling
that has eluded some RV10 builders. You will be breaking new ground
when you start flying. Hope you are ready for the POSTS from all the
EXPERTS on this list telling you your numbers CAN"T be real.
Keep sanding that fiberglass!
DEAN 40449
________________________________________________________________________
FREE Reminder Service - NEW from AmericanGreetings.com
Click HERE and never forget a Birthday or Anniversary again!
<http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=197335&u=http://www.americangreetings.c
om/
products/online_calendar.pd?c=uol5752>
Message 50
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| Subject: | Firewall covering |
Sure.
Well, I do a lot of research when it comes to airplane building, and
frequently, my history with race cars comes to my aid. When you think
about it, a race car and an aircraft have similar needs. It needs to be
light and strong, you want to keep your fluids where you put them, and
much of the time, you battle heat issues. So when people started
talking about the infamous "tunnel", I started listening. I considered
and rejected a bunch of things (foil backed graphite sheets, etc.) and
finally found this stuff.
http://www.lizardskin.com/pages/ceramic.php
I called "the guy" over there, and he seemed to know what he was talking
about. I took notes at the time, but I've since lost them. The point
was that the paint is thick, it dries VERY lightweight, and it
apparently does a good job of rejecting heat. It also kind of seals
little voids which is an added plus. I also took note of this page of
the website:
http://www.lizardskin.com/pages/testimonials4.php
So there it was. It seemed to fit the bill, and I'll also use some
mylar faced fiberglass race car insulation on the firewall and in the
tunnel to add a bit more to the insulating properties. Initially, I
thought I'd just use it in the tunnel area under my false floor, and
under the pilot/copilot floor as shown here
http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Perfectlygoodairplane/Tunnel%20Modi
fication.html
but after thinking more about it, I decided to do the firewall as well.
The pros are basically that it's supposed to reduce the temp in the
cabin, and seal the firewall a bit extra (I also did firewall sealant
around the seams and nutplates). It sticks well to everything, and it's
very light. It's also water soluble and paintable. The cons? Well the
paint isn't smooth after you apply it. it's so thick, that it's got
kind of a car undercoat texture. It's very messy to apply. You must
mask very well and very carefully. Also, you must peal the mask before
the paint fully dries. It uses a special gun that you have to buy.
There's no way you could spray it with a normal gun. No way. Also, I
suppose for inspections, you can't pull it away from the firewall to see
the condition of the shop heads and stiffeners. I decided that I'd be
ok with that, as long as I could still see the steel engine mount
thingys at the corners of the firewall. So in the end, I masked those,
and the rivet lines for the forward fuse deck, and the attach point for
my parking brake, and painted the rest. I might also paint the
underside of the false floor I built in the tunnel after I get the
brackets riveted to it.
As an aside, don't get to thinking that the sound deadening stuff on the
lizard skin website is going to be your friend, because it's REALLY
heavy.
Hope that answers any questions.
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 2:47 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Firewall covering
Chris - as I was reviewing your website for cowl information and
pictures to balance with Deems great work, I noticed that you and
Bethany have a page on your website
http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Perfectlygoodairplane/Firewall%20Pa
inting.html that uses some interesting product. Can you expound with a
new thread?
John Cox
#40600
Chris Johnston wrote:
<CJohnston@popsound.com>
>
>Hey Deems -
>
>Are you using the plenum? I've not really decided, and was wondering
if
>others had thoughts about it. I don't know much about the mechanics of
>it, but it seems like it'd improve cooling etc. Also it (I guess)
would
>reduce stress on the cowl and attachments, as the plenum is pressurized
>and not the entire cowl. Am I incorrect here? What about inspecting
>the engine through the oil filler hole? You wouldn't see the top of
the
>engine there - is that a bummer? Also, doesn't the engine get hot
where
>it gets close to the plenum? Is this a problem? I'd love any info
>before I go calling Sam about it.
>
>cj
>#40410
>fuse
>www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
>Chris Johnston wrote:
>
>
>
>>Just thought I'd chime in here - I just sent my check off for my Sam
>>James RV-10 Cowl, and I do have my standard cowl here as well, so when
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>the new cowl comes I'll give a pirep and snap some pics illustrating
>>the differences in quality and shape. I got the RV-10 cowl for the
>>standard, not the cold air induction. We'll see.
>>
>>cj
>>
>>#40410
>>
>>fuse
>>
>>www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>>
Message 51
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|
| Subject: | Re: James Cowl & plenum |
Great information Deems. I am leaning towards the James cowl and
plenum, so this is good info for me. One question. Does the James
cowl fasten with camlocs or a hinge, or does it matter? I would like
to use camlocs if possible.
David Maib
#40559
On Jan 15, 2007, at 3:35 PM, Deems Davis wrote:
This may be a case of the blind leading the blind, but here's what
I've learned.
Apart form aesthetics, the main reason for my going with the James
cowl & plenum was performance. there are no RV-10'd flying with it
yet so performance improvements are subjective. However there are
enough RV 6.7 & 8's flying with them to indicate that the combination
produces anywhere between 5-10 mph. It would take a LOT of additional
HP to get the kind of an improvement.
The biggest portion of the improvement is attributable to the Plenum.
I don't begin to understand all of the fluid dynamic physics, but as
Sam explained to me, the 'secret is: with Wills cowl rings you get 32
sq inchs of air entering the plenum, and you want 32 sq inches of
area around the bottom of the clys for the air to exit the
'pressurized' portion. an imbalance with more air coming in than
exiting results in drag with the air going back out the front of the
cowl. The advantages of the plenum are that there is no 'leakage'
between the baffling and the top of the cowl. some measurements have
indicated that as much as 50% of the cooling air can be lost through
what otherwise appears to be a tight fit between baffling material
and the cowl. the leakage also contributed to increased drag. Sam's
cowl comes with templates for his own baffling that mates to his
cowl. His baffling templates are designed to equalize/optimize the
air entering the plenum and the air exiting. Some builders have used
Van's baffling kit and adapted it to Sam's plenum, Sam strongly
cautioned me against this, believing it was a source of problems with
the fitment of the plenum, and also with the balance of the air flow.
he quoted me the numbers on van's baffles and the area around the
bottom of each cyl was larger than the area he designed in his plans.
Another benefit of a properly functioning plenum/baffle combo it
better balanced cooling between cyls. I believe the Sam indicates
that cyl temps with his plenum should not vary by more than 2% (!).
I've spoken w/ 2 -10 builders that had problems fitting Sam's plenum.
both used Van's baffle kit. I almost skipped ordering a plenum based
on their troubles. to Sam's credit, he remade plenums for both
builders and sent them at his expense. One builder seems satisfied
and one isn't. I spoke with both Will and Sam about the fittment
situation, and they called the builders and talked with additional
builders and concluded that the problems were most likely due to
using Van's baffling. Will told me " if you order one of our products
and it doesn't work as it is supposed to we will stay with you until
it does"
So, Yes I have ordered Sam's Plenum,
Access (easy) to the top of the engine is a drawback of the plenum,
ans it derives its benefits from a 'hard' mounting to the baffling.
(I've got these pretty polished induction tubes, color coordinated
plug wires, custom painted crankcase, chrome valve covers, and it's
all going to get covered up. (I just remind myself that 5-10 mph is
worth it!). The epoxy/glass that Sam used is designed for the temps
of the engine compartment.
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
http://deemsrv10.com/
Chris Johnston wrote:
> <CJohnston@popsound.com>
>
> Hey Deems -
> Are you using the plenum? I've not really decided, and was
> wondering if
> others had thoughts about it. I don't know much about the
> mechanics of
> it, but it seems like it'd improve cooling etc. Also it (I guess)
> would
> reduce stress on the cowl and attachments, as the plenum is
> pressurized
> and not the entire cowl. Am I incorrect here? What about inspecting
> the engine through the oil filler hole? You wouldn't see the top
> of the
> engine there - is that a bummer? Also, doesn't the engine get hot
> where
> it gets close to the plenum? Is this a problem? I'd love any info
> before I go calling Sam about it.
>
> cj
> #40410
> fuse
> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:56 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Empennage - James Cowl
>
>
> Here's a link to pics of my Will James Cowl, arrived Fri. A QUALITY
> part! (Will makes the Cowls & Sam (his father) makes the Plenum)
>
> http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2047%20Spinner%20and%20Cowling/
> index.html
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
> Chris Johnston wrote:
>
>
>> Just thought I'd chime in here - I just sent my check off for my
>> Sam James RV-10 Cowl, and I do have my standard cowl here as well,
>> so when
>>
>
>
>> the new cowl comes I'll give a pirep and snap some pics
>> illustrating the differences in quality and shape. I got the RV-10
>> cowl for the standard, not the cold air induction. We'll see.
>>
>> cj
>>
>> #40410
>>
>> fuse
>>
>> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-
>> list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Phillips,
>>
>
>
>> Jack
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 7:53 AM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>>
>> I would be interested, depending on cost. I also intend to buy a
>> Wholly Cowl for my RV-10.
>>
>> Jack Phillips
>>
>> #40610
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-
>> list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John W.
>>
> Cox
>
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38 AM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>>
>> My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be
>> interested and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with
>> door fitment complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon
>> fiber, lighter weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum,
>> improved hinges, improved locks with fitment and alignment up to
>> 21 century QC
>>
> standards.
>
>> This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the
>> right thing by crediting builders who find the composite
>> components not up to the Builder's QC standard. We are the
>> builders. I understand that $700 is the customary rebate for those
>> going with a Wholly Cowl.
>>
>> */John Cox/*
>> */#40600/*
>>
>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-
>> list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Lloyd, Daniel R.
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>>
>> That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of
>> completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for
>> 51%, so I only provide this link for informational purposes and
>> you can do with it what you want to....
>>
>> http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a
>> price
>>
>
>
>> list and options available.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> N289DT
>>
>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-
>> list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *W. Curtis
>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM
>> *To:* RV10-List@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>>
>>
>>> They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB
>>> builders and
>>> they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it
>>> certified here though.
>>> Dan
>>>
>>>
>> Dan,
>>
>> "They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no
>> mention of this $85K on Van's (?) website.
>> William Curtis -SB about to fit lid
>> http://nerv10.com/
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://
>> www.matroni
>>
> cs.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
>> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *< /span>< /span>< /span>< /span><
>>
> /span>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
>> *< /span>< /span>http://forums.matronics.com*
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *< /span>< /span>< /span>< /span><
>>
> /span>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
>> *< /span>< /span>http://forums.matronics.com*
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *_________________________________________________*
>>
>> * *
>>
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese -
>>
> Nederlands - N*
>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>>
>> **
>>
>> * - The RV10-List Email Forum -*
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> * --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>>
>> **
>>
>> * - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -*
>>
>> **
>>
>> * --> http://forums.matronics.com*
>>
>> **
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
Message 52
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| Subject: | RV-10 - Bushing installation in flap supports |
Listers,
There's apparently a revision to RV-10 plans page 22-8 (rev 1) that is
current, but has not been posted on the "revisions" page at Van's web
site. It involves the little brass bushings that go in the flap
supports. Attached photo shows the revision.
Tim
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 850 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: RV-10 - Bushing installation in flap supports
From: Scott Risan <scottr@vansaircraft.com>
see attachment for bushing inst....ream to 3/8"...press bushing in.
rev 1 is current on that drawing. van's
Forwarded by: "Support" <support>
Forwarded to: ScottR
Date forwarded: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 08:23:57 -0800
Date sent: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 10:07:26 -0500
From: Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis@msm.umr.edu>
Send reply to: Tim_Lewis@msm.umr.edu
Subject: RV-10 - Bushing installation in flap supports
Van's,
I'm writing to ask for your help. I'm trying to find where in the
plans are the instructions for installing the "Bushing 1/4x3/8x250"
into the W-1025A flap supports that extend below the wings?
I've looked at plans page 22-8 carefully as Gus suggested, and I
can't
find the "1/4x3/8x250 bushings" anywhere on the page (I have page
22-8, RV-10 rev 0, 12/3/03). Figure 4 shows the washers, bolts, and
CM-4M rod ends, but not the bushing that I'm looking for.
Thanks,
Tim Lewis
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: RV-10 - Bushing installation in flap supports
From: Gus Funnell <gusf@vansaircraft.com>
The bushing install is shown 22-8
Vans
On 17 Dec 06, at 14:22, TimRV6A@earthlink.net wrote:
> Van's,
>
> Where in the plans are the instructions for installing the "Bushing
> 1/4x3/8x250" into the flap supports that extend below the wings?
> I've missed that step, and can't find it. I want to be sure I
> wasn't supposed to file them down in width or something.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim Lewis
Message 53
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Also, expect to add potentially another several hundred dollars for shipping
such a large bulky item. However, I would be interested in finding out more!
Jae
http://www.jline.com/rv10
Do not archive
$2K would be a bargain! a 14" composite spinner is $1k, the James Cowl is $1200
and the plenum is $475 (add shipping to all of those $'s). Add the cost of the
Carbon fiber ($$) and I think you would expect to pay more like $4k + for that
package.
Message 54
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| Subject: | Firewall covering |
Thanks for the great post.
A comment. Dan Newland who specializes in fire suppression blankets
reminded me that one of their company's products ORCON must be removable
during the conditional inspection to search for corrosion. A result of
condensation from moisture in air vapors. When foam material is glued,
it is real bear to tear off to effect such a corrosion inspection. On
our airline birds, the suppression batting gets soaked and is impossible
to dry out effectively. We have to throw it away and you would then
know why tickets are so expensive if you saw the cost. The amount of
corrosion that forms from the condensate.... WOW.
The idea of a product which covers the aluminum skin and may also
provide corrosion protection is of value. I don't know the answer but I
will do some digging. I know they say in their marketing that it does
protect the surface.
The Question. Their site mentions MSRP of $189.00 for a 2 gallon
container. How much did you use? Is the residual available for
purchase. Bethany had a blue paste in one picture but then it looked
dark grey on drying. Should we pursue a group buy and divvy it up like a
Coop?
John Cox
#600
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Johnston
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 4:34 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Firewall covering
<CJohnston@popsound.com>
Sure.
Well, I do a lot of research when it comes to airplane building, and
frequently, my history with race cars comes to my aid. When you think
about it, a race car and an aircraft have similar needs. It needs to be
light and strong, you want to keep your fluids where you put them, and
much of the time, you battle heat issues. So when people started
talking about the infamous "tunnel", I started listening. I considered
and rejected a bunch of things (foil backed graphite sheets, etc.) and
finally found this stuff.
http://www.lizardskin.com/pages/ceramic.php
I called "the guy" over there, and he seemed to know what he was talking
about. I took notes at the time, but I've since lost them. The point
was that the paint is thick, it dries VERY lightweight, and it
apparently does a good job of rejecting heat. It also kind of seals
little voids which is an added plus. I also took note of this page of
the website:
http://www.lizardskin.com/pages/testimonials4.php
So there it was. It seemed to fit the bill, and I'll also use some
mylar faced fiberglass race car insulation on the firewall and in the
tunnel to add a bit more to the insulating properties. Initially, I
thought I'd just use it in the tunnel area under my false floor, and
under the pilot/copilot floor as shown here
http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Perfectlygoodairplane/Tunnel%20Modi
fication.html
but after thinking more about it, I decided to do the firewall as well.
The pros are basically that it's supposed to reduce the temp in the
cabin, and seal the firewall a bit extra (I also did firewall sealant
around the seams and nutplates). It sticks well to everything, and it's
very light. It's also water soluble and paintable. The cons? Well the
paint isn't smooth after you apply it. it's so thick, that it's got
kind of a car undercoat texture. It's very messy to apply. You must
mask very well and very carefully. Also, you must peal the mask before
the paint fully dries. It uses a special gun that you have to buy.
There's no way you could spray it with a normal gun. No way. Also, I
suppose for inspections, you can't pull it away from the firewall to see
the condition of the shop heads and stiffeners. I decided that I'd be
ok with that, as long as I could still see the steel engine mount
thingys at the corners of the firewall. So in the end, I masked those,
and the rivet lines for the forward fuse deck, and the attach point for
my parking brake, and painted the rest. I might also paint the
underside of the false floor I built in the tunnel after I get the
brackets riveted to it.
As an aside, don't get to thinking that the sound deadening stuff on the
lizard skin website is going to be your friend, because it's REALLY
heavy.
Hope that answers any questions.
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 2:47 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Firewall covering
Chris - as I was reviewing your website for cowl information and
pictures to balance with Deems great work, I noticed that you and
Bethany have a page on your website
http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Perfectlygoodairplane/Firewall%20Pa
inting.html that uses some interesting product. Can you expound with a
new thread?
John Cox
#40600
Message 55
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| Subject: | Re: James Cowl & plenum |
I don't believe there's any restrictions on using camlocs. I haven't
read through his plans, but I believe he assumes hinges, just like Van's.
I was also initially thinking about Camlocs, but after seeing some
really well done hinge installations, I've decided to go that way.
David Maib wrote:
>
> Great information Deems. I am leaning towards the James cowl and
> plenum, so this is good info for me. One question. Does the James
> cowl fasten with camlocs or a hinge, or does it matter? I would like
> to use camlocs if possible.
>
> David Maib
> #40559
>
Message 56
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| Subject: | Re: James Cowl & plenum |
I'm really not a speed freak, I'm just stingy! I laid out enough $'s for
this beautiful mass of precision machined parts, that I want to get all
of my money's worth. Cleaning up drag, is like 'free hp'. So if you're
going to go to the effort to build a nice plane you might as well get it
to perform at it's optimum, I don't know if John's gauntlet of 200 KTS
is achievable for this grasshopper, perhaps, If I began from 5K ft and
dove to 20 ft. above the Salton Sea, on a cold day in late Jan, and
leveled off for a 2 mile speed trap, I might make it. But only time,
and LOTs more F/G sanding/priming will tell :-)
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
http://deemsrv10.com/
ddddsp1@juno.com wrote:
> Deems,
>
> I never realized you were so interested in SPEED. Are you gonna race
> at RENO with your 10? I bet you are gonna race John Cox in 2020 when
> he gets his RV10 done...............:) Haven't people told you that
> at our age we are suppose to SLOW DOWN. You are retired....you don't
> have to get there 20 minutes early. Seriously though, that plenum
> setup sounds really ideal and will hopefully give you the speed and
> cooling that has eluded some RV10 builders. You will be breaking new
> ground when you start flying. Hope you are ready for the POSTS from
> all the EXPERTS on this list telling you your numbers CAN"T be real.
>
> Keep sanding that fiberglass!
>
> DEAN 40449
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> *FREE* Reminder Service - NEW from AmericanGreetings.com
> *Click HERE* and never forget a Birthday or Anniversary again!
> <http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=197335&u=http://www.americangreetings.com/products/online_calendar.pd?c=uol5752>
>
>*
>
>
>*
>
Message 57
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| Subject: | Firewall covering |
I'm not sure how much I used, but there's got to be over a gallon left.
It was expensive (paint and gun system), but I was willing to give it a
try. I was kind of reserving judgment til I got flying so I could see
what the real poop on it was, as it's kind of a commitment to go
squirting some unknown quantity all over the inside of your airplane. I
didn't want to bring it up then figure out that it sucked, basically.
However, if others feel like taking the plunge right along with me, I'm
willing to pass around the gun system and the leftover paint to whoever
wants to use it. I just want to be clear up front that yes, I think it
should work, yes it looks like it should work, yes, I'm happy with my
results (untested as they may be), but I don't KNOW that it is as neato
as I think it is. One test that I've been meaning to do is just get my
heat gun out and heat up the engine side with it while touching the
interior side with my hand. Not too scientific, but I don't have an IR
temp gauge to use. I'll check it out this evening and report back.
But back to the question, I really don't see the need for others to go
buying this special gun when this is the only thing you'll ever use it
for. We'll just pass it around to whoever wants to check it out - it
only takes a day to squirt the stuff. Let me know if you want to, maybe
just cover shipping to you. I'm willing to throw a tool and some
leftover paint in the pot if it's helpful to other builders. I expected
it all to just collect dust in my garage anyway...
Oh - yea, it looks purplish while you're mixing it (you have to mix with
a drill driven paint mixer for a couple minutes til it looks smooth) but
dries a flat chalky black. Also, it's pretty tough stuff. It doesn't
flake or chip easily.
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 5:17 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Firewall covering
Thanks for the great post.
A comment. Dan Newland who specializes in fire suppression blankets
reminded me that one of their company's products ORCON must be removable
during the conditional inspection to search for corrosion. A result of
condensation from moisture in air vapors. When foam material is glued,
it is real bear to tear off to effect such a corrosion inspection. On
our airline birds, the suppression batting gets soaked and is impossible
to dry out effectively. We have to throw it away and you would then
know why tickets are so expensive if you saw the cost. The amount of
corrosion that forms from the condensate.... WOW.
The idea of a product which covers the aluminum skin and may also
provide corrosion protection is of value. I don't know the answer but I
will do some digging. I know they say in their marketing that it does
protect the surface.
The Question. Their site mentions MSRP of $189.00 for a 2 gallon
container. How much did you use? Is the residual available for
purchase. Bethany had a blue paste in one picture but then it looked
dark grey on drying. Should we pursue a group buy and divvy it up like a
Coop?
John Cox
#600
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Johnston
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 4:34 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Firewall covering
<CJohnston@popsound.com>
Sure.
Well, I do a lot of research when it comes to airplane building, and
frequently, my history with race cars comes to my aid. When you think
about it, a race car and an aircraft have similar needs. It needs to be
light and strong, you want to keep your fluids where you put them, and
much of the time, you battle heat issues. So when people started
talking about the infamous "tunnel", I started listening. I considered
and rejected a bunch of things (foil backed graphite sheets, etc.) and
finally found this stuff.
http://www.lizardskin.com/pages/ceramic.php
I called "the guy" over there, and he seemed to know what he was talking
about. I took notes at the time, but I've since lost them. The point
was that the paint is thick, it dries VERY lightweight, and it
apparently does a good job of rejecting heat. It also kind of seals
little voids which is an added plus. I also took note of this page of
the website:
http://www.lizardskin.com/pages/testimonials4.php
So there it was. It seemed to fit the bill, and I'll also use some
mylar faced fiberglass race car insulation on the firewall and in the
tunnel to add a bit more to the insulating properties. Initially, I
thought I'd just use it in the tunnel area under my false floor, and
under the pilot/copilot floor as shown here
http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Perfectlygoodairplane/Tunnel%20Modi
fication.html
but after thinking more about it, I decided to do the firewall as well.
The pros are basically that it's supposed to reduce the temp in the
cabin, and seal the firewall a bit extra (I also did firewall sealant
around the seams and nutplates). It sticks well to everything, and it's
very light. It's also water soluble and paintable. The cons? Well the
paint isn't smooth after you apply it. it's so thick, that it's got
kind of a car undercoat texture. It's very messy to apply. You must
mask very well and very carefully. Also, you must peal the mask before
the paint fully dries. It uses a special gun that you have to buy.
There's no way you could spray it with a normal gun. No way. Also, I
suppose for inspections, you can't pull it away from the firewall to see
the condition of the shop heads and stiffeners. I decided that I'd be
ok with that, as long as I could still see the steel engine mount
thingys at the corners of the firewall. So in the end, I masked those,
and the rivet lines for the forward fuse deck, and the attach point for
my parking brake, and painted the rest. I might also paint the
underside of the false floor I built in the tunnel after I get the
brackets riveted to it.
As an aside, don't get to thinking that the sound deadening stuff on the
lizard skin website is going to be your friend, because it's REALLY
heavy.
Hope that answers any questions.
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 2:47 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Firewall covering
Chris - as I was reviewing your website for cowl information and
pictures to balance with Deems great work, I noticed that you and
Bethany have a page on your website
http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Perfectlygoodairplane/Firewall%20Pa
inting.html that uses some interesting product. Can you expound with a
new thread?
John Cox
#40600
Message 58
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Empennage |
Hi Werner=0A=0AI got the impression that you believe I am designing a new
graphite Cabin Cover I can assure you that I am currently not doing this.
A non-optimized graphite design that replaces a fiberglass one is actually
fairly easy. Take graphite/epoxy fabric laying it up in the 0/90 and +45/-
45 directions and match the fiberglass thickness. If in doubt test it just
like Vans did but it should come out much stronger. What Van's did to tes
t it is turn a weighted fuselage upside down to ensure the top won't collap
se if the aircraft turns upside down. Graphite has a density of approxima
tely 0.06 lb/in^3 whereas glass is approximately 0.08 lb/in^3. Now thats a
n easy approximately 25 % weight savings and if one used a decent graphite
cloth it would be much stronger at the same time than the fiberglass one.
Thats the reason fiberglass doesn't get used for structural members in mil
itary or large commercial airplanes. Its heavy and relatively weak when co
mpared to graphite. The
only place it gets used is in non-structural fairings for two reasons its
more damage tolerant than graphite and its much cheaper. As far as directi
ons perpendicular to the fibers I think you might mean fabric vs tape. Neit
her graphite, fiberglass or Kevlar is very strong in a direction where you
dont have fibers. Kevlar is great for impact resistance which is why its u
sed in bullet proof vest. For the layman, use an equal number of 0 and 45
degree fabric layers. Yes this does mean that all those 400K+ general avi
ation airplanes are low tech as far as structure goes. In fact aluminum is
a better material than fiberglass is you are looking performance. There a
ren't any fiberglass military fighters are out there at least not that i am
aware. Has someone noticed that the tailcone skin is maybe 0.032 thick al
uminum where as the fiberglass that mates to it has about 1/8 inch thick fl
ange? Hmm, it doesn't look like that fiberglass is very strong. Now if
you went
with an optimized design you can probably cut the Cabin Top weight in half
and for me that would be worth paying a bit for. Now I might be persuaded
to design it if someone is willing to build it.=0A=0ABy the way the Cabin
Top is not as significant a structural member during flight as one might th
ink. Most of the material is on the top which ends in the windshield. So
if it starts getting loaded from aft fuselage bending where is the load go
ing to go? In to the windshield? Or jump across the door cutouts? And it
s attached on the back and sides by thin hollow aluminum cylinders. Yes th
ese are not considered to be structural cylinders. The major structural me
mbers at the top are the longerons which run the full length of the fuselag
e and end at the firewall where the engine loads come in although I have to
say that the cabin top does stiffen the structure torsionally again a task
that may be handled much better with a graphite which is going to be 2 to
3 times stiffer for the same thickness. The side skins carry most of the s
hear loads which are transferred to the main spar of the wing and get balan
ced by the lift the wing is producing and they are very important
and so is the lower skin. Of course this doesn't mean that the rest of th
e structure isn't doing anything its all working its just not the major loa
d carrying structure.=0A=0AThe bottom line is if you are looking for perfor
mace, fiberglass is a poor choice for material to use in an aircraft. If y
ou are looking for low cost than its great. And lastly titanium with grap
hite and aluminum is the standard for high performance applications and it
works in high load low weight applications.=0A=0AA general note for all the
readers here, I really don't know what I am talking about so please do not
act on my words and design anything without thoroughly researching it . ;-
)=0A=0ADo not archive=0A=0ANiko=0A40188=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----
=0AFrom: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.com
=0ASent: Monday, January 15, 2007 4:52:46 PM=0ASubject: Re: RV10-List: RE:
Empennage=0A=0AHi Niko,=0A=0Ano intention of blaming you ;O) Carbon fiber i
s lightweight but needs to be constructed in an intelligent way, I did in m
y Glastar replace the seat pans with a Carbon/Kevlar mix, as the carbon has
a low strength perpendicular to the fibers. We had just a workshop on corr
osion, had a cut out piece of a F-5E spar in the hand, 7075 Alum with Titan
rivets, some of the Alum. started to develop corrosion inside the 7075 spa
r (ok after 30 years so you might be save) but stainless steel rivet might
do it. =0A=0AWhat I've wanted to point out is, that if somebody develops a
new fiberglass top he needs to know the load on the part and construct it a
ccordingly. Doing a new cowling is one thing (as it is not a structural par
t) but the cabin top is a structural part and needs to be done accordingly.
=0A=0AAnyway just my 2 cents, keep on building and fly this beautiful plane
, my last plane took 2554hrs to complete some of it was fiberglass work.=0A
=0Abr Werner=0A=0ANiko wrote: =0AThanks for the advice Werner. I actually
had no intention of using aluminum rivets on the graphite. That's not a sh
ow stopper though, we can use steel rivets, better yet, titanium ones if t
hey are available or maybe do something really different and bond it in pla
ce. It will probably have a higher joint strength than the current pop riv
eted one.=0A =0A I have already done a lot of work on my cabin top so I am
not in the market for another one just trying to answer the question John
asked.=0A =0ANiko=0A40188=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Werner S
chneider <glastar@gmx.net>=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, Ja
nuary 15, 2007 12:27:34 PM=0ASubject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Empennage=0A=0ANik
o,=0A=0Abe veeeeeeeeeeery careful to rivet a carbon fiber part onto aluminu
m with aluminum rivets. Between carbon and aluminum you have a large differ
ence in electrical potential, this will cause severe corrosion of the alumi
num part.=0A=0ASo some sort of glass inserts and coverage of the carbon nee
ds to be done to avoid bad surprises or a coating of the aluminum of some k
ind..=0A=0Abr=0A=0AWerner=0A=0ANiko wrote: =0AHi John,=0A =0A I haven't tho
ught about this much, however, for a considerably lighter graphite canopy t
hats "almost ready to rivet in place" with an overhead similar to what Accu
racy Avionics provides here is where how much I would be willing to part wi
th.=0A =0A- at 1K to 2K above Vans rebate it would be a great deal and a no
brainer for me.=0A- at 3K to 4K above Vans rebate I would have to think ab
out it. Depends on how much lighter, and how good the fit is.=0A- at 5K ab
ove Vans rebate it would a bit expensive to justify.=0A =0ANiko=0A40188=0A
=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: John W. Cox <johnwcox@pacificnw.c
om>=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38:18
AM=0ASubject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage=0A=0A=0AMy question remains una
nswered. How many builders would be interested and how much might they pay
for an improved canopy with door fitment complete which meets the current
FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter weight, roll bars included, overhead a
ir plenum, improved hinges, improved locks with fitment and alignment up to
21 century QC standards. =0A =0AThis would like remain predicated on VANS
continuing to do the right thing by crediting builders who find the compos
ite components not up to the Builder=92s QC standard. We are the builders.
I understand that $700 is the customary rebate for those going with a Who
lly Cowl. =0A =0AJohn Cox =0A#40600 =0AFrom: owner-rv10-list-server@matron
ics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, D
aniel R.=0ASent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics
.com=0ASubject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage =0A =0AThat is because it is
not offered through Vans. The level of completion they build it to would no
t meet the US requirements for 51%, so I only provide this link for informa
tional purposes and you can do with it what you want to.... =0Ahttp://www.b
onanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price list and options
available. =0ADan =0AN289DT =0A =0AFrom: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics
.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis
=0ASent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM=0ATo: RV10-List@matronics.com=0A
Subject: RV10-List: RE: Empennage =0A>They do, and it is $85k, goto the web
site for the Vans QB builders and=0A>they have it listed for purchase. Do n
ot know how you would get it=0A>certified here though.=0A>Dan =0A>=0ADan,
=0A=0A"They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention
of this $85K on Van's (?) website.=0AWilliam Curtis -SB about to fit lid=0A
http://nerv10.com/ =0A =0A =0A href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigat
or?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List =0A href="http
://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com =0A =0A =0A =0A
=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
=0A =0A =0A =0A http://forums.matronics.com =0A =0A =0A http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List==== =0A=0A=0A =0A http:/
/==================== =0A=0A=0A
====
Message 59
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Empennage |
What is a "Wholly cowl?" Holy cow!
Dave Leikam
40496
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:53 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
I would be interested, depending on cost. I also intend to buy a
Wholly Cowl for my RV-10.
Jack Phillips
#40610
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested
and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment
complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter
weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges,
improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards.
This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right
thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up to
the Builder's QC standard. We are the builders. I understand that $700
is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl.
John Cox
#40600
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel
R.
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of
completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%,
so I only provide this link for informational purposes and you can do
with it what you want to....
http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price
list and options available.
Dan
N289DT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM
To: RV10-List@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders
and
>they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it
>certified here though.
>Dan
>
Dan,
"They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention
of this $85K on Van's (?) website.
William Curtis -SB about to fit lid
http://nerv10.com/
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://foru
ms.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
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This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
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Message 60
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| Subject: | Control Stick interference |
All,
I've removed the front covers that fit around the control sticks. The plans
say to move the controls throughout their full range of motion to check for
interference. What is the actual full range of motion? Of course I can
make the ends of the bolts on the control stick bases touch the F1033L
control column mounts (P 39-7 and 39-8) as well as make the control pushrod
(F1065) touch the curved slot in the sides of the tunnel.
I believe that once I attach the control surfaces this extra movement will
go away, yet the plans say to check for interference without the surfaces
installed (p39-8 Step 3). What other experiences are out there? Did anyone
have to hack up the pre-formed slots or other areas once the control
surfaces were installed?
Rob Wright
#392 QB Fuse
Control Sticks temp installed - looks like an airplane!!
Message 61
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John, here's another 2 cents from a QB builder:
Like Mike L., I strongly support the letter and spirit of the 51%
rule. I have been told very unofficially that the 51% is calculated
by counting operations, not estimating hours spent. If that is so,
then it seems that a third party cabin top could be sold that would
have no effect on the 51% calculation, even if the quality were to be
sharply improved.
Based on the quality of my wing and tail feather tips (my VS tip was
useless - they sent a better one right away) and the buzz here about
the cabin top, I'd bet that better quality could be a strong selling
point for a third party cabin top and might be achieved at a
"reasonable" price. I do think that there is a market in the "several
thousand dollar" range
For me to purchase a third party unit:
First: I would have to be convinced that structural integrity would
not be compromised.
Second: weight could not increase; if weight were to decrease, a
higher price would be tolerated. The law of diminishing returns (non-
linear price/ weight relationship) would clearly apply. I don't think
that more than a few pounds decrease would be possible, but who knows?
Finally, the third-party top would have to incorporate some
improvements such as a stronger belt anchor, a more robust door hinge
setup, and perhaps a slicker door closure system in addition to
higher perceived quality.
I'd guess than other people who would be willing to pay a premium
might also want those improvements, and would be far more likely to
pay the additional cost if it were to result in a "better" plane.
On Jan 13, 2007, at 3:25 PM, John W. Cox wrote:
> <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>
> If there was such a product, and VAN would credit builders the cost of
> the canopy & doors, just how much more would a QB builder offer to pay
> for such an offering?
Message 62
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| Subject: | Firewall covering |
There is another product from 'Super Soundproofing' named "Sound Damping
Liquid" that seems to have similar properties. Question: Has anybody used
this? What are the pros and cons to 'LizardSkin'? The spray gun seems to be
a lot cheaper and material about the same.
http://www.soundproofing.org/sales/liquid.htm
Lorenz.
#40280
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Chris Johnston
> Sent: Dienstag, 16. Januar 2007 03:02
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Firewall covering
>
>
> --> <CJohnston@popsound.com>
>
> I'm not sure how much I used, but there's got to be over a
> gallon left. It was expensive (paint and gun system), but I
> was willing to give it a try. I was kind of reserving
> judgment til I got flying so I could see what the real poop
> on it was, as it's kind of a commitment to go squirting some
> unknown quantity all over the inside of your airplane. I
> didn't want to bring it up then figure out that it sucked,
> basically. However, if others feel like taking the plunge
> right along with me, I'm willing to pass around the gun
> system and the leftover paint to whoever wants to use it. I
> just want to be clear up front that yes, I think it should
> work, yes it looks like it should work, yes, I'm happy with
> my results (untested as they may be), but I don't KNOW that
> it is as neato as I think it is. One test that I've been
> meaning to do is just get my heat gun out and heat up the
> engine side with it while touching the interior side with my
> hand. Not too scientific, but I don't have an IR temp gauge
> to use. I'll check it out this evening and report back.
>
> But back to the question, I really don't see the need for
> others to go buying this special gun when this is the only
> thing you'll ever use it for. We'll just pass it around to
> whoever wants to check it out - it only takes a day to squirt
> the stuff. Let me know if you want to, maybe just cover
> shipping to you. I'm willing to throw a tool and some
> leftover paint in the pot if it's helpful to other builders.
> I expected it all to just collect dust in my garage anyway...
>
> Oh - yea, it looks purplish while you're mixing it (you have
> to mix with a drill driven paint mixer for a couple minutes
> til it looks smooth) but dries a flat chalky black. Also,
> it's pretty tough stuff. It doesn't flake or chip easily.
>
> cj
> #40410
> fuse
> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 5:17 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Firewall covering
>
> <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>
> Thanks for the great post.
>
> A comment. Dan Newland who specializes in fire suppression
> blankets reminded me that one of their company's products
> ORCON must be removable during the conditional inspection to
> search for corrosion. A result of condensation from moisture
> in air vapors. When foam material is glued, it is real bear
> to tear off to effect such a corrosion inspection. On our
> airline birds, the suppression batting gets soaked and is
> impossible to dry out effectively. We have to throw it away
> and you would then know why tickets are so expensive if you
> saw the cost. The amount of corrosion that forms from the
> condensate.... WOW.
>
> The idea of a product which covers the aluminum skin and may
> also provide corrosion protection is of value. I don't know
> the answer but I will do some digging. I know they say in
> their marketing that it does protect the surface.
>
> The Question. Their site mentions MSRP of $189.00 for a 2
> gallon container. How much did you use? Is the residual
> available for purchase. Bethany had a blue paste in one
> picture but then it looked dark grey on drying. Should we
> pursue a group buy and divvy it up like a Coop?
>
> John Cox
> #600
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Chris Johnston
> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 4:34 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Firewall covering
>
> <CJohnston@popsound.com>
>
> Sure.
>
> Well, I do a lot of research when it comes to airplane
> building, and frequently, my history with race cars comes to
> my aid. When you think about it, a race car and an aircraft
> have similar needs. It needs to be light and strong, you
> want to keep your fluids where you put them, and much of the
> time, you battle heat issues. So when people started talking
> about the infamous "tunnel", I started listening. I
> considered and rejected a bunch of things (foil backed
> graphite sheets, etc.) and finally found this stuff.
>
> http://www.lizardskin.com/pages/ceramic.php
>
> I called "the guy" over there, and he seemed to know what he
> was talking about. I took notes at the time, but I've since
> lost them. The point was that the paint is thick, it dries
> VERY lightweight, and it apparently does a good job of
> rejecting heat. It also kind of seals little voids which is
> an added plus. I also took note of this page of the website:
>
> http://www.lizardskin.com/pages/testimonials4.php
>
> So there it was. It seemed to fit the bill, and I'll also
> use some mylar faced fiberglass race car insulation on the
> firewall and in the tunnel to add a bit more to the
> insulating properties. Initially, I thought I'd just use it
> in the tunnel area under my false floor, and under the
> pilot/copilot floor as shown here
> http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Perfectlygoodairplane/Tun
> nel%20Modi
> fication.html
> but after thinking more about it, I decided to do the
> firewall as well. The pros are basically that it's supposed
> to reduce the temp in the cabin, and seal the firewall a bit
> extra (I also did firewall sealant around the seams and
> nutplates). It sticks well to everything, and it's very
> light. It's also water soluble and paintable. The cons?
> Well the paint isn't smooth after you apply it. it's so
> thick, that it's got kind of a car undercoat texture. It's
> very messy to apply. You must mask very well and very
> carefully. Also, you must peal the mask before the paint
> fully dries. It uses a special gun that you have to buy.
> There's no way you could spray it with a normal gun. No way.
> Also, I suppose for inspections, you can't pull it away from
> the firewall to see the condition of the shop heads and
> stiffeners. I decided that I'd be ok with that, as long as I
> could still see the steel engine mount thingys at the corners
> of the firewall. So in the end, I masked those, and the
> rivet lines for the forward fuse deck, and the attach point
> for my parking brake, and painted the rest. I might also
> paint the underside of the false floor I built in the tunnel
> after I get the brackets riveted to it.
>
> As an aside, don't get to thinking that the sound deadening
> stuff on the lizard skin website is going to be your friend,
> because it's REALLY heavy.
>
> Hope that answers any questions.
>
> cj
> #40410
> fuse
> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 2:47 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Firewall covering
>
> <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>
> Chris - as I was reviewing your website for cowl information
> and pictures to balance with Deems great work, I noticed that
> you and Bethany have a page on your website
> http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Perfectlygoodairplane/Fir
ewall%20Pa
inting.html that uses some interesting product. Can you expound with a new
thread?
John Cox
#40600
Message 63
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I would be interested, but don't now how much more it would be worth. I
think I would have to see it first and see how it works before deciding. I
would not be as interested in the carbon fiber as in simply a better fit and
the air plenum. That would be the biggest deal for me.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested and
how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment complete
which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter weight, roll
bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges, improved locks with
fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards.
This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right thing
by crediting builders who find the composite components not up to the
Builder's QC standard. We are the builders. I understand that $700 is the
customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl.
John Cox
#40600
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R.
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of completion they
build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%, so I only provide
this link for informational purposes and you can do with it what you want
to....
http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price list
and options available.
Dan
N289DT
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
>They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and
>they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it
>certified here though.
>Dan
>
Dan,
"They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention of this
$85K on Van's (?) website.
William Curtis -SB about to fit lid
http://nerv10.com/
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
<http://forums.matronics.com> http://forums.matronics.com
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