Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:57 AM - Re: Elevator movement (Jesse Saint)
2. 08:09 AM - Re: Elevator movement (John Hasbrouck)
3. 09:05 AM - Re: My panel (jdalton77)
4. 09:12 AM - Re: Lettering for Panels (jdalton77)
5. 09:19 AM - Re: My panel (John Gonzalez)
6. 09:36 AM - Re: Elevator movement (John Gonzalez)
7. 09:39 AM - Re: Elevator movement (John Gonzalez)
8. 09:58 AM - Door fit - curvature change question (Phil White)
9. 11:22 AM - What bolts onto F1011E - rudder cable hold downs? (MauleDriver)
10. 12:39 PM - Re: What bolts onto F1011E - rudder cable hold downs? (John Hilger)
11. 05:51 PM - Washer installation tool (dmaib@mac.com)
12. 06:01 PM - Re: Washer installation tool (JSMcGrew@aol.com)
13. 07:12 PM - Re: Washer installation tool (Tim Olson)
14. 08:00 PM - Re: Washer installation tool (Larry Rosen)
15. 08:37 PM - Re: My panel (Dave Leikam)
16. 08:57 PM - Re: Washer installation tool (David Maib)
17. 10:07 PM - Re: Elevator movement (Dave Leikam)
18. 10:33 PM - Re: Elevator movement (Jesse Saint)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Elevator movement |
Dave,
My first question is, if you get the top hole fixed, what does that do
to
your bottom hole? One option is to get another horn and do it again.
The
next option is to make the hole bigger, have a plate welded in there to
make
the new hole. Another option is to have a washer welded in there after
making the hole a little bigger to fit. Another option is to have
someone
weld the hole closed, then redrill the hole (it has to be an expert
welder).
Another option is the just talk to Van=92s and see what they say.
Another
option is to make a new elevator, but I don=92t recommend this or the
first
one.
There will be a lot of suggestions from others, but these are the ones I
could come up with quickly (I have seen this problem before more than
once,
and we had the hole welded closed and redrilled.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 11:50 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator movement
I unbolted the center bearing at the top of the elevator horns and sure
enough, the hole on the top of the right horn is a touch lower than it
needs
to be. Just enough to cause the horn to flex up less than 1 mm with the
bolt in. This is causing the bind. Now what to do?
I followed the plans and put the drill bushing in my DeWalt 12 volt and
put
a file to it until it fit into the bearing. No problem with that. The
bottom holes of the horn came out fine as well using the wood block.
Dave Leikam
40496
----- Original Message -----
From: Jesse <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com> Saint
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 6:41 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Elevator movement
That sounds to me like the holes in the horns that bolt together with
the
AN4-13A (or whatever it is) night not be quite lined up. I would pull
that
bolt out and see if that makes the difference. If you are connected to
the
pushrod, pull that off as well and find out, adding one thing at a time,
where the problem is. I know it is a pain to get those washers in on
the
AN4 bolt, but removing a number of things and then adding them one at a
time
to see what makes the difference would be my suggestion. If it is not
that
the holes are misaligned, then it could be that you have too many/few
washers around that bearing and it is getting a little distorted when
tightened and putting drag on the system. It is not hard at all to get
that
hold a little off center, so that is where I would recommend looking.
BTW, did anybody else have problems with the drill bushing not fitting
in
the bearing. With a lathe that problem is easily fixed, but we ended up
having to have a bushing machined from scratch to do that drilling.
Also,
on drilling the horns for the pushrod, use a block of aluminum instead
of a
block of wood as Van=92s suggests, and make sure that when you measure
to
drill the first horn that it is not hanging lower than the other,
because
that might put you too close to the edge of the second. Anybody having
the
horns quite a bit out of alignment? I have seen some that are over =BD
inch
out of alignment and others that are perfectly lined up. The plans say
that
they might not be quite right, but that is a lot of variation.
Hope this helps. I was working on that exact thing this week, so it is
pretty fresh. Let me know how it comes out.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:44 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Elevator movement
Tonight I installed my elevators and control tube. After install, the
freedom of movement seemed a bit tight. The elevators do not sag
freely.
They will stay in any position I put them. Not binding, but just a bit
tight. Everything lines up perfectly. Before I installed the center
bolt
under the VS, they each sagged more freely. They have very smooth
movement
just the same. Anyone have this experience?
Dave Leikam
40496
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator movement |
Dave,
If one hole was forward of the other I'd suggest trying to adjust ot
out with the hinge bearings but that won't help in your situation. ( I
don't think ) . Check with Van's. You may still be within spec and not
have to do anything.
John Hasbrouck
#40264
Message 3
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I've thought about adding some headroom to the cap also. How did you do
it? :)
I was just thinking I had too much money for avionics, so how could I
make more room in the panel?
Jeff Dalton
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Leikam
To: matronics
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 12:02 AM
Subject: RV10-List: My panel
Thought I'd post a picture of me sitting in front of my new panel.
;-)
(Actually this is compliments of the 128th sim at MKE. I landed it
twice in Hawaii and did a full power on stall loaded very lite. What a
ride!)
Dave
do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Lettering for Panels |
Great idea. I just checked out their site and there are a lot of ways to
use these guys. Thanks!
Jeff Dalton
----- Original Message -----
From: "Snow, Daniel A." <Daniel.Snow@wancdf.com>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 8:22 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Lettering for Panels
> <Daniel.Snow@wancdf.com>
>
> I used Camera Graphics in Oregon to produce rub-off letters. You supply
> them with a .doc and .pdf file, they create a master sheet, and then
> copy the master to a transfer sheet. My 8-1/2" x 11" sheet cost $65
> including shipping. I was very pleased with the outcome. It has the
> same professional appearance as silkscreening.
>
> You can contact them at 503-234-1967 or email them at
> transfers@cgpdx.com. Mr. Zell is very good to work with. He sends an
> invoice with the order, and turnaround time for mine was only a day or
> two.
>
> Time: 03:18:41 PM PST US
> From: Niko <owl40188@yahoo.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: Lettering for Panels
>
> I have been wondering how people do lettering in their instument panels.
> A
> nyone care to volunteer some info?=0A=0ANiko=0A40188 on Cabin Cover
>
>
>
Message 5
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Dave do you guys plan on flying with out the windscreen, what the hell are
those diving masks doing hanging around in the cockpit.
Either that, you you guys do some pretty silly stuff all alone up front on
those long flights.
If you need some help I can make a referal.
John G.
Do Not Archive
>From: "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM@wi.rr.com>
>To: "matronics" <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV10-List: My panel
>Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 23:02:48 -0600
>
>Thought I'd post a picture of me sitting in front of my new panel. ;-)
>(Actually this is compliments of the 128th sim at MKE. I landed it twice
>in Hawaii and did a full power on stall loaded very lite. What a ride!)
>
>Dave
>
>do not archive
><< KC-135007.jpg >>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Elevator movement |
Dave and Jesse,
Another option not mentioned and this is what i did was to get everything
alinged, trailing edges and counterweight arms to the ends of the HS, use
the hole which has the most meat around it as the keeper and then fabricate
a plate for the other horn which can be riveted with six 4-4 rivets. The
steel plate should be of equal thickness and same type of steel as the
original horn and be long enough to overlap atleast 2 1/2 of the lightening
holes in the elev horn. This plate can also have lightening holes.
So the idea is to only slightly enlarge the bad hole. Lock everything into
alignment, put your plate in with the hole already drilled in it, index
everything and lock it down, then drill your rivet holes for fastening the
plate to the horn. Everything should be indexed and locked DOWN. The gap
between both horn needs to be indexed again with a block of some type of
material, perfectly perpendicular hole in all dimensions. The horn should
not flex when you clamp this block in place.
This will yeild you a perfectly trimmed out trailing edge on both sides and
the counterbalance arms to the HS.
>From a safety standpoint, if for some damm reason all six rivets seperated,
then the slightly enlarged hole in the original elevator is still there and
will keep th plane flying. DO disaster!!!!
JOhn G.
409 thinking about those diving mask games.
>From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@saintaviation.com>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Elevator movement
>Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 08:55:00 -0500
>
>Dave,
>
>
>My first question is, if you get the top hole fixed, what does that do to
>your bottom hole? One option is to get another horn and do it again. The
>next option is to make the hole bigger, have a plate welded in there to
>make
>the new hole. Another option is to have a washer welded in there after
>making the hole a little bigger to fit. Another option is to have someone
>weld the hole closed, then redrill the hole (it has to be an expert
>welder).
>Another option is the just talk to Vans and see what they say. Another
>option is to make a new elevator, but I dont recommend this or the first
>one.
>
>
>There will be a lot of suggestions from others, but these are the ones I
>could come up with quickly (I have seen this problem before more than once,
>and we had the hole welded closed and redrilled.
>
>
>Do not archive.
>
>
>Jesse Saint
>
>Saint Aviation, Inc.
>
>jesse@saintaviation.com
>
>www.saintaviation.com
>
>Cell: 352-427-0285
>
>Fax: 815-377-3694
>
> _____
>
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
>Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 11:50 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator movement
>
>
>I unbolted the center bearing at the top of the elevator horns and sure
>enough, the hole on the top of the right horn is a touch lower than it
>needs
>to be. Just enough to cause the horn to flex up less than 1 mm with the
>bolt in. This is causing the bind. Now what to do?
>
>
>I followed the plans and put the drill bushing in my DeWalt 12 volt and put
>a file to it until it fit into the bearing. No problem with that. The
>bottom holes of the horn came out fine as well using the wood block.
>
>
>Dave Leikam
>
>40496
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>
>From: Jesse <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com> Saint
>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
>Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 6:41 AM
>
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Elevator movement
>
>
>That sounds to me like the holes in the horns that bolt together with the
>AN4-13A (or whatever it is) night not be quite lined up. I would pull that
>bolt out and see if that makes the difference. If you are connected to the
>pushrod, pull that off as well and find out, adding one thing at a time,
>where the problem is. I know it is a pain to get those washers in on the
>AN4 bolt, but removing a number of things and then adding them one at a
>time
>to see what makes the difference would be my suggestion. If it is not that
>the holes are misaligned, then it could be that you have too many/few
>washers around that bearing and it is getting a little distorted when
>tightened and putting drag on the system. It is not hard at all to get
>that
>hold a little off center, so that is where I would recommend looking.
>
>
>BTW, did anybody else have problems with the drill bushing not fitting in
>the bearing. With a lathe that problem is easily fixed, but we ended up
>having to have a bushing machined from scratch to do that drilling. Also,
>on drilling the horns for the pushrod, use a block of aluminum instead of a
>block of wood as Vans suggests, and make sure that when you measure to
>drill the first horn that it is not hanging lower than the other, because
>that might put you too close to the edge of the second. Anybody having the
>horns quite a bit out of alignment? I have seen some that are over inch
>out of alignment and others that are perfectly lined up. The plans say
>that
>they might not be quite right, but that is a lot of variation.
>
>
>Hope this helps. I was working on that exact thing this week, so it is
>pretty fresh. Let me know how it comes out.
>
>
>Jesse Saint
>
>Saint Aviation, Inc.
>
>jesse@saintaviation.com
>
>www.saintaviation.com
>
>Cell: 352-427-0285
>
>Fax: 815-377-3694
>
>
> _____
>
>
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
>Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:44 AM
>To: matronics
>Subject: RV10-List: Elevator movement
>
>
>Tonight I installed my elevators and control tube. After install, the
>freedom of movement seemed a bit tight. The elevators do not sag freely.
>They will stay in any position I put them. Not binding, but just a bit
>tight. Everything lines up perfectly. Before I installed the center bolt
>under the VS, they each sagged more freely. They have very smooth movement
>just the same. Anyone have this experience?
>
>
>Dave Leikam
>
>40496
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
>/Navigator?RV10-List
>href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Elevator movement |
By the way, my last post is the reason I went out and finally bought a real
drill press and realized my Shop Smith had too much play in the bit when
drilling. Or call it travel.
JOhn G.
>From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@saintaviation.com>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Elevator movement
>Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 08:55:00 -0500
>
>Dave,
>
>
>My first question is, if you get the top hole fixed, what does that do to
>your bottom hole? One option is to get another horn and do it again. The
>next option is to make the hole bigger, have a plate welded in there to
>make
>the new hole. Another option is to have a washer welded in there after
>making the hole a little bigger to fit. Another option is to have someone
>weld the hole closed, then redrill the hole (it has to be an expert
>welder).
>Another option is the just talk to Vans and see what they say. Another
>option is to make a new elevator, but I dont recommend this or the first
>one.
>
>
>There will be a lot of suggestions from others, but these are the ones I
>could come up with quickly (I have seen this problem before more than once,
>and we had the hole welded closed and redrilled.
>
>
>Do not archive.
>
>
>Jesse Saint
>
>Saint Aviation, Inc.
>
>jesse@saintaviation.com
>
>www.saintaviation.com
>
>Cell: 352-427-0285
>
>Fax: 815-377-3694
>
> _____
>
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
>Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 11:50 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator movement
>
>
>I unbolted the center bearing at the top of the elevator horns and sure
>enough, the hole on the top of the right horn is a touch lower than it
>needs
>to be. Just enough to cause the horn to flex up less than 1 mm with the
>bolt in. This is causing the bind. Now what to do?
>
>
>I followed the plans and put the drill bushing in my DeWalt 12 volt and put
>a file to it until it fit into the bearing. No problem with that. The
>bottom holes of the horn came out fine as well using the wood block.
>
>
>Dave Leikam
>
>40496
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>
>From: Jesse <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com> Saint
>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
>Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 6:41 AM
>
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Elevator movement
>
>
>That sounds to me like the holes in the horns that bolt together with the
>AN4-13A (or whatever it is) night not be quite lined up. I would pull that
>bolt out and see if that makes the difference. If you are connected to the
>pushrod, pull that off as well and find out, adding one thing at a time,
>where the problem is. I know it is a pain to get those washers in on the
>AN4 bolt, but removing a number of things and then adding them one at a
>time
>to see what makes the difference would be my suggestion. If it is not that
>the holes are misaligned, then it could be that you have too many/few
>washers around that bearing and it is getting a little distorted when
>tightened and putting drag on the system. It is not hard at all to get
>that
>hold a little off center, so that is where I would recommend looking.
>
>
>BTW, did anybody else have problems with the drill bushing not fitting in
>the bearing. With a lathe that problem is easily fixed, but we ended up
>having to have a bushing machined from scratch to do that drilling. Also,
>on drilling the horns for the pushrod, use a block of aluminum instead of a
>block of wood as Vans suggests, and make sure that when you measure to
>drill the first horn that it is not hanging lower than the other, because
>that might put you too close to the edge of the second. Anybody having the
>horns quite a bit out of alignment? I have seen some that are over inch
>out of alignment and others that are perfectly lined up. The plans say
>that
>they might not be quite right, but that is a lot of variation.
>
>
>Hope this helps. I was working on that exact thing this week, so it is
>pretty fresh. Let me know how it comes out.
>
>
>Jesse Saint
>
>Saint Aviation, Inc.
>
>jesse@saintaviation.com
>
>www.saintaviation.com
>
>Cell: 352-427-0285
>
>Fax: 815-377-3694
>
>
> _____
>
>
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
>Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:44 AM
>To: matronics
>Subject: RV10-List: Elevator movement
>
>
>Tonight I installed my elevators and control tube. After install, the
>freedom of movement seemed a bit tight. The elevators do not sag freely.
>They will stay in any position I put them. Not binding, but just a bit
>tight. Everything lines up perfectly. Before I installed the center bolt
>under the VS, they each sagged more freely. They have very smooth movement
>just the same. Anyone have this experience?
>
>
>Dave Leikam
>
>40496
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
>/Navigator?RV10-List
>href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Door fit - curvature change question |
All
I have built and hung the first door. When it was a shell without
the window, it fit quite well. I glued in the window off the plane, and
now find that there is more of a curve to the door, leading to it being
1/4" proud in the vertical center of the window (both front & rear).
Has anyone else experienced this?
Does anyone have suggestions as to how to achieve a better fit now?
Would a shim between the hinges and the door, combined with lowering the
latch holes in the door frame to stretch the door work, do you think?
Phil #40220 (windows + doors in IL)
Message 9
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| Subject: | What bolts onto F1011E - rudder cable hold downs? |
I'm ready to close up the rear tailcone deck but I'm looking at F1011E
and see that 'something' bolts into the 2 nutplates. So far, I just
can't find the step or 'thing' that goes there.
Should I bolt it in now?
Thanks for any help here.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: What bolts onto F1011E - rudder cable hold downs? |
Those nutplates are for the clamps to secure tubes that locate the rudder
cable.
Vans hase you install them in section 38.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "MauleDriver" <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:21 AM
Subject: RV10-List: What bolts onto F1011E - rudder cable hold downs?
>
> I'm ready to close up the rear tailcone deck but I'm looking at F1011E and
> see that 'something' bolts into the 2 nutplates. So far, I just can't
> find the step or 'thing' that goes there.
>
> Should I bolt it in now?
>
> Thanks for any help here.
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Washer installation tool |
I know I have seen some photo's of a tool made out of a popsicle stick or tongue
depresser that is made to help get washers installed on bolts for rod end installations
and such. I cannot locate anything using the search feature. Anybody
help with this?
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90930#90930
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Washer installation tool |
I use fishing line that is threaded through everything to initially hold all
the washers in place and in the proper order, then I use a 1/8" punch to get
everything aligned. Then I remove the fishing line and push the punch out
with the bolt. It's not all that easy every time, but that's how I did most of
my rod end installations.
Jim
40134
In a message dated 1/27/2007 8:53:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dmaib@mac.com writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "dmaib@mac.com" <dmaib@mac.com>
I know I have seen some photo's of a tool made out of a popsicle stick or
tongue depresser that is made to help get washers installed on bolts for rod
end installations and such. I cannot locate anything using the search feature.
Anybody help with this?
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90930#90930
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
_http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew)
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Washer installation tool |
There's one here:
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/generaltips.html
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
dmaib@mac.com wrote:
>
> I know I have seen some photo's of a tool made out of a popsicle stick or tongue
depresser that is made to help get washers installed on bolts for rod end
installations and such. I cannot locate anything using the search feature. Anybody
help with this?
>
> --------
> David Maib
> RV-10 #40559
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Washer installation tool |
I was given this suggestion, but have not used it my self.
Super glue the edge of the washer to a wire. Use the wire to hold the
washer in place. Insert the bolt and then pull the wire off the washer.
YMMV
Larry
dmaib@mac.com wrote:
>
> I know I have seen some photo's of a tool made out of a popsicle stick or tongue
depresser that is made to help get washers installed on bolts for rod end
installations and such. I cannot locate anything using the search feature. Anybody
help with this?
>
> --------
> David Maib
> RV-10 #40559
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90930#90930
>
>
>
Message 15
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The diving mask is in case of a water landing, remember we were flying over
Honolulu. ;-) (Actually I did not notice it and don't know why it was
there.)
Dave
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:19 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: My panel
>
> Dave do you guys plan on flying with out the windscreen, what the hell are
> those diving masks doing hanging around in the cockpit.
>
> Either that, you you guys do some pretty silly stuff all alone up front on
> those long flights.
>
> If you need some help I can make a referal.
>
> John G.
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
>>From: "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM@wi.rr.com>
>>To: "matronics" <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: RV10-List: My panel
>>Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 23:02:48 -0600
>>
>>Thought I'd post a picture of me sitting in front of my new panel. ;-)
>>(Actually this is compliments of the 128th sim at MKE. I landed it twice
>>in Hawaii and did a full power on stall loaded very lite. What a ride!)
>>
>>Dave
>>
>>do not archive
>
>
>><< KC-135007.jpg >>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Washer installation tool |
Jim, Larry, and Tim
Thanks for all of the information.
David Maib
#40559
do not archive
On Jan 27, 2007, at 8:00 PM, JSMcGrew@aol.com wrote:
I use fishing line that is threaded through everything to initially
hold all the washers in place and in the proper order, then I use a
1/8" punch to get everything aligned. Then I remove the fishing line
and push the punch out with the bolt. It's not all that easy every
time, but that's how I did most of my rod end installations.
Jim
40134
In a message dated 1/27/2007 8:53:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dmaib@mac.com writes:
I know I have seen some photo's of a tool made out of a popsicle
stick or tongue depresser that is made to help get washers installed
on bolts for rod end installations and such. I cannot locate anything
using the search feature. Anybody help with this?
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90930#90930
es Day --> - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
bsp; --> =====================
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator movement |
Thanks for the ideas guys. I have not had a chance to really study the
misaligned horn hole problem. (that sounded off) I plan to look at the
problem in depth this week and make a decision on what the best and safest
action to take will be. I think I know the cause, too much pressure on the
drill caused the horn to flex up slightly. Let the bit do the work guys and
gals!
I will have to study the affect on the bottom hole as well. I think I can
get things straightened out however because the misalignment is very small.
The hole is a hair lower than it should be. I think less than 1 mm. If I
were to elongate the hole up to meet the bearing hole, the only way for the
horn to shift would be a hair up. Being that the horn is clamped to the
bearing between washers, and the assembly wants to stay in the aligned
position, I wonder if the operation would be safe.
I will probably call Vans for their opinion. I'll post my findings and fix.
Lincoln logs, legos and tinker toys were so easy!
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:36 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Elevator movement
>
> Dave and Jesse,
>
> Another option not mentioned and this is what i did was to get everything
> alinged, trailing edges and counterweight arms to the ends of the HS, use
> the hole which has the most meat around it as the keeper and then
> fabricate a plate for the other horn which can be riveted with six 4-4
> rivets. The steel plate should be of equal thickness and same type of
> steel as the original horn and be long enough to overlap atleast 2 1/2 of
> the lightening holes in the elev horn. This plate can also have lightening
> holes.
>
> So the idea is to only slightly enlarge the bad hole. Lock everything into
> alignment, put your plate in with the hole already drilled in it, index
> everything and lock it down, then drill your rivet holes for fastening the
> plate to the horn. Everything should be indexed and locked DOWN. The gap
> between both horn needs to be indexed again with a block of some type of
> material, perfectly perpendicular hole in all dimensions. The horn should
> not flex when you clamp this block in place.
>
> This will yeild you a perfectly trimmed out trailing edge on both sides
> and the counterbalance arms to the HS.
>
>>From a safety standpoint, if for some damm reason all six rivets
>>seperated,
> then the slightly enlarged hole in the original elevator is still there
> and will keep th plane flying. DO disaster!!!!
>
> JOhn G.
>
> 409 thinking about those diving mask games.
>
>
>>From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@saintaviation.com>
>>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Elevator movement
>>Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 08:55:00 -0500
>>
>>Dave,
>>
>>
>>
>>My first question is, if you get the top hole fixed, what does that do to
>>your bottom hole? One option is to get another horn and do it again. The
>>next option is to make the hole bigger, have a plate welded in there to
>>make
>>the new hole. Another option is to have a washer welded in there after
>>making the hole a little bigger to fit. Another option is to have someone
>>weld the hole closed, then redrill the hole (it has to be an expert
>>welder).
>>Another option is the just talk to Van's and see what they say. Another
>>option is to make a new elevator, but I don't recommend this or the first
>>one.
>>
>>
>>
>>There will be a lot of suggestions from others, but these are the ones I
>>could come up with quickly (I have seen this problem before more than
>>once,
>>and we had the hole welded closed and redrilled.
>>
>>
>>
>>Do not archive.
>>
>>
>>
>>Jesse Saint
>>
>>Saint Aviation, Inc.
>>
>>jesse@saintaviation.com
>>
>>www.saintaviation.com
>>
>>Cell: 352-427-0285
>>
>>Fax: 815-377-3694
>>
>> _____
>>
>>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
>>Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 11:50 PM
>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator movement
>>
>>
>>
>>I unbolted the center bearing at the top of the elevator horns and sure
>>enough, the hole on the top of the right horn is a touch lower than it
>>needs
>>to be. Just enough to cause the horn to flex up less than 1 mm with the
>>bolt in. This is causing the bind. Now what to do?
>>
>>
>>
>>I followed the plans and put the drill bushing in my DeWalt 12 volt and
>>put
>>a file to it until it fit into the bearing. No problem with that. The
>>bottom holes of the horn came out fine as well using the wood block.
>>
>>
>>
>>Dave Leikam
>>
>>40496
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>
>>From: Jesse <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com> Saint
>>
>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>
>>Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 6:41 AM
>>
>>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Elevator movement
>>
>>
>>
>>That sounds to me like the holes in the horns that bolt together with the
>>AN4-13A (or whatever it is) night not be quite lined up. I would pull
>>that
>>bolt out and see if that makes the difference. If you are connected to
>>the
>>pushrod, pull that off as well and find out, adding one thing at a time,
>>where the problem is. I know it is a pain to get those washers in on the
>>AN4 bolt, but removing a number of things and then adding them one at a
>>time
>>to see what makes the difference would be my suggestion. If it is not
>>that
>>the holes are misaligned, then it could be that you have too many/few
>>washers around that bearing and it is getting a little distorted when
>>tightened and putting drag on the system. It is not hard at all to get
>>that
>>hold a little off center, so that is where I would recommend looking.
>>
>>
>>
>>BTW, did anybody else have problems with the drill bushing not fitting in
>>the bearing. With a lathe that problem is easily fixed, but we ended up
>>having to have a bushing machined from scratch to do that drilling. Also,
>>on drilling the horns for the pushrod, use a block of aluminum instead of
>>a
>>block of wood as Van's suggests, and make sure that when you measure to
>>drill the first horn that it is not hanging lower than the other, because
>>that might put you too close to the edge of the second. Anybody having
>>the
>>horns quite a bit out of alignment? I have seen some that are over inch
>>out of alignment and others that are perfectly lined up. The plans say
>>that
>>they might not be quite right, but that is a lot of variation.
>>
>>
>>
>>Hope this helps. I was working on that exact thing this week, so it is
>>pretty fresh. Let me know how it comes out.
>>
>>
>>
>>Jesse Saint
>>
>>Saint Aviation, Inc.
>>
>>jesse@saintaviation.com
>>
>>www.saintaviation.com
>>
>>Cell: 352-427-0285
>>
>>Fax: 815-377-3694
>>
>>
>> _____
>>
>>
>>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
>>Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:44 AM
>>To: matronics
>>Subject: RV10-List: Elevator movement
>>
>>
>>
>>Tonight I installed my elevators and control tube. After install, the
>>freedom of movement seemed a bit tight. The elevators do not sag freely.
>>They will stay in any position I put them. Not binding, but just a bit
>>tight. Everything lines up perfectly. Before I installed the center bolt
>>under the VS, they each sagged more freely. They have very smooth
>>movement
>>just the same. Anyone have this experience?
>>
>>
>>
>>Dave Leikam
>>
>>40496
>>
>>
>>
>>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>http://forums.matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
>>/Navigator?RV10-List
>>href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Elevator movement |
It might not be a bad idea for those drilling the holes to have a helper
move the elevator up and down through it's range of movement (without
hitting the stops) during the drilling to help make sure that you are
getting a hole that stays in the center. This should help keep the hole
from wandering off center a little. Use a good sharp bit, turn it slowly
and don't push too hard are also very good procedures to use IMHO. Is the
"turn fast for aluminum, turn slow for steel" something that I thought I was
told or something that actually is a good format? Either way, it seems to
work well.
Oh, and by the way, Bad Dog Tools should leave out the Dog in their name.
Stay far from their tent at the shows. ASK ME HOW I KNOW!
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator movement
Thanks for the ideas guys. I have not had a chance to really study the
misaligned horn hole problem. (that sounded off) I plan to look at the
problem in depth this week and make a decision on what the best and safest
action to take will be. I think I know the cause, too much pressure on the
drill caused the horn to flex up slightly. Let the bit do the work guys and
gals!
I will have to study the affect on the bottom hole as well. I think I can
get things straightened out however because the misalignment is very small.
The hole is a hair lower than it should be. I think less than 1 mm. If I
were to elongate the hole up to meet the bearing hole, the only way for the
horn to shift would be a hair up. Being that the horn is clamped to the
bearing between washers, and the assembly wants to stay in the aligned
position, I wonder if the operation would be safe.
I will probably call Vans for their opinion. I'll post my findings and fix.
Lincoln logs, legos and tinker toys were so easy!
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:36 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Elevator movement
>
> Dave and Jesse,
>
> Another option not mentioned and this is what i did was to get everything
> alinged, trailing edges and counterweight arms to the ends of the HS, use
> the hole which has the most meat around it as the keeper and then
> fabricate a plate for the other horn which can be riveted with six 4-4
> rivets. The steel plate should be of equal thickness and same type of
> steel as the original horn and be long enough to overlap atleast 2 1/2 of
> the lightening holes in the elev horn. This plate can also have lightening
> holes.
>
> So the idea is to only slightly enlarge the bad hole. Lock everything into
> alignment, put your plate in with the hole already drilled in it, index
> everything and lock it down, then drill your rivet holes for fastening the
> plate to the horn. Everything should be indexed and locked DOWN. The gap
> between both horn needs to be indexed again with a block of some type of
> material, perfectly perpendicular hole in all dimensions. The horn should
> not flex when you clamp this block in place.
>
> This will yeild you a perfectly trimmed out trailing edge on both sides
> and the counterbalance arms to the HS.
>
>>From a safety standpoint, if for some damm reason all six rivets
>>seperated,
> then the slightly enlarged hole in the original elevator is still there
> and will keep th plane flying. DO disaster!!!!
>
> JOhn G.
>
> 409 thinking about those diving mask games.
>
>
>>From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@saintaviation.com>
>>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Elevator movement
>>Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 08:55:00 -0500
>>
>>Dave,
>>
>>
>>
>>My first question is, if you get the top hole fixed, what does that do to
>>your bottom hole? One option is to get another horn and do it again. The
>>next option is to make the hole bigger, have a plate welded in there to
>>make
>>the new hole. Another option is to have a washer welded in there after
>>making the hole a little bigger to fit. Another option is to have someone
>>weld the hole closed, then redrill the hole (it has to be an expert
>>welder).
>>Another option is the just talk to Van's and see what they say. Another
>>option is to make a new elevator, but I don't recommend this or the first
>>one.
>>
>>
>>
>>There will be a lot of suggestions from others, but these are the ones I
>>could come up with quickly (I have seen this problem before more than
>>once,
>>and we had the hole welded closed and redrilled.
>>
>>
>>
>>Do not archive.
>>
>>
>>
>>Jesse Saint
>>
>>Saint Aviation, Inc.
>>
>>jesse@saintaviation.com
>>
>>www.saintaviation.com
>>
>>Cell: 352-427-0285
>>
>>Fax: 815-377-3694
>>
>> _____
>>
>>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
>>Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 11:50 PM
>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator movement
>>
>>
>>
>>I unbolted the center bearing at the top of the elevator horns and sure
>>enough, the hole on the top of the right horn is a touch lower than it
>>needs
>>to be. Just enough to cause the horn to flex up less than 1 mm with the
>>bolt in. This is causing the bind. Now what to do?
>>
>>
>>
>>I followed the plans and put the drill bushing in my DeWalt 12 volt and
>>put
>>a file to it until it fit into the bearing. No problem with that. The
>>bottom holes of the horn came out fine as well using the wood block.
>>
>>
>>
>>Dave Leikam
>>
>>40496
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>
>>From: Jesse <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com> Saint
>>
>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>
>>Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 6:41 AM
>>
>>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Elevator movement
>>
>>
>>
>>That sounds to me like the holes in the horns that bolt together with the
>>AN4-13A (or whatever it is) night not be quite lined up. I would pull
>>that
>>bolt out and see if that makes the difference. If you are connected to
>>the
>>pushrod, pull that off as well and find out, adding one thing at a time,
>>where the problem is. I know it is a pain to get those washers in on the
>>AN4 bolt, but removing a number of things and then adding them one at a
>>time
>>to see what makes the difference would be my suggestion. If it is not
>>that
>>the holes are misaligned, then it could be that you have too many/few
>>washers around that bearing and it is getting a little distorted when
>>tightened and putting drag on the system. It is not hard at all to get
>>that
>>hold a little off center, so that is where I would recommend looking.
>>
>>
>>
>>BTW, did anybody else have problems with the drill bushing not fitting in
>>the bearing. With a lathe that problem is easily fixed, but we ended up
>>having to have a bushing machined from scratch to do that drilling. Also,
>>on drilling the horns for the pushrod, use a block of aluminum instead of
>>a
>>block of wood as Van's suggests, and make sure that when you measure to
>>drill the first horn that it is not hanging lower than the other, because
>>that might put you too close to the edge of the second. Anybody having
>>the
>>horns quite a bit out of alignment? I have seen some that are over inch
>>out of alignment and others that are perfectly lined up. The plans say
>>that
>>they might not be quite right, but that is a lot of variation.
>>
>>
>>
>>Hope this helps. I was working on that exact thing this week, so it is
>>pretty fresh. Let me know how it comes out.
>>
>>
>>
>>Jesse Saint
>>
>>Saint Aviation, Inc.
>>
>>jesse@saintaviation.com
>>
>>www.saintaviation.com
>>
>>Cell: 352-427-0285
>>
>>Fax: 815-377-3694
>>
>>
>> _____
>>
>>
>>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
>>Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:44 AM
>>To: matronics
>>Subject: RV10-List: Elevator movement
>>
>>
>>
>>Tonight I installed my elevators and control tube. After install, the
>>freedom of movement seemed a bit tight. The elevators do not sag freely.
>>They will stay in any position I put them. Not binding, but just a bit
>>tight. Everything lines up perfectly. Before I installed the center bolt
>>under the VS, they each sagged more freely. They have very smooth
>>movement
>>just the same. Anyone have this experience?
>>
>>
>>
>>Dave Leikam
>>
>>40496
>>
>>
>>
>>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>http://forums.matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.c
om
>>/Navigator?RV10-List
>>href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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11:11 AM
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