---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 01/30/07: 49 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:50 AM - Re: RV-10 Axle Extension Group Order - Reply by Wednesday p.m. (Robert Woods) 2. 05:02 AM - Re: Re: Wow! (DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com) 3. 05:03 AM - Tools to Sell (Mike Doble (Home Office)) 4. 05:20 AM - Flaring Tool (Michael Wellenzohn) 5. 05:51 AM - Re: Tools to Sell (MauleDriver) 6. 05:54 AM - Re: Flaring Tool (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 7. 06:06 AM - Re: Flaring Tool (Tim Olson) 8. 06:12 AM - Re: Re: Wow! (gary) 9. 06:21 AM - Re: RV-10 Axle Extension Group Order - Reply by Wednesday p.m. (Bobby J. Hughes) 10. 07:11 AM - Re: Flaring Tool (Werner Schneider) 11. 07:11 AM - Re: How does this tank test kit work? (reubanks) 12. 07:11 AM - Re: Flaring Tool (Michael Wellenzohn) 13. 07:28 AM - Re: Tools to Sell (Les Kearney) 14. 07:38 AM - Re: Wow! (John Cram) 15. 07:43 AM - Re: Re: Wow! (Shawn Moon) 16. 07:53 AM - Re: Tools to Sell (John Cram) 17. 08:07 AM - Re: RV-10 Axle Extension Group Order - Reply by Wednesday p.m. (Phillips, Jack) 18. 08:08 AM - Re: Tools to Sell (Pascal) 19. 08:19 AM - Re: Re: Wow! (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 20. 08:32 AM - Re: Re: Wow! (Tim Olson) 21. 08:35 AM - Re: Tools to Sell (Shawn Moon) 22. 08:59 AM - Re: How does this tank test kit work? (Jesse Saint) 23. 09:27 AM - Re: Tools to Sell (Larry Rosen) 24. 09:36 AM - Re: Re: RV-10 Axle Extension Group Order - Reply by Wednesday p.m. (Jesse Saint) 25. 09:44 AM - Re: IO 540 Performance (Dave & Brenda Emond) 26. 09:58 AM - Re: Fuel Return? (Jesse Saint) 27. 10:15 AM - Re: IO 540 Performance (Tim Olson) 28. 10:17 AM - Re: Tools to Sell (Pascal) 29. 10:18 AM - Re: IO 540 Performance (Pascal) 30. 10:49 AM - Re: Re: IO 540 Performance () 31. 10:54 AM - Re: IO 540 Performance (Dave & Brenda Emond) 32. 10:58 AM - Re: Fuel Return? (Lloyd, Daniel R.) 33. 01:01 PM - Re: Fuel Return? (Eric Parlow) 34. 03:09 PM - Re: Elevator movement (Dave Leikam) 35. 04:30 PM - Re: Fuel Return? (Jesse Saint) 36. 04:44 PM - Re: Elevator movement (John Gonzalez) 37. 04:44 PM - Re: Re: Wow! (JmsFrnch@aol.com) 38. 05:10 PM - Re: Elevator movement (Dave Leikam) 39. 05:56 PM - Re: RV-10 Axle Extension Group Order - Reply by Wednesday p.m. (Jay Rowe) 40. 06:04 PM - Re: Fuel Return? (linn Walters) 41. 06:35 PM - Re: Fuel Return? () 42. 06:54 PM - Re: Fuel Return? (Jesse Saint) 43. 06:55 PM - Re: Fuel Return? (Eric Panning) 44. 07:27 PM - Re: Fuel Return? (bob.kaufmann) 45. 07:51 PM - Re: Fuel Return? (Lloyd, Daniel R.) 46. 08:11 PM - Re: Elevator movement (John Gonzalez) 47. 08:28 PM - Re: Wow! (Ronald L Owen) 48. 09:05 PM - Re: IO 540 Performance (Kelly McMullen) 49. 10:02 PM - Re: Wow! (RV_10) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:50:51 AM PST US From: "Robert Woods" Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Axle Extension Group Order - Reply by Wednesday p.m. I don't even have the emp kit yet and I'm in!! Robb.....192RL reserved ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 9:56 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Axle Extension Group Order - Reply by Wednesday p.m. Wonderful, you're #51! Tim Roger Standley wrote: > > Hi Tim, > > I will take a set. > > Roger > #40291 > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Tim Olson > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Sunday, January 28, 2007 4:41 PM > *Subject:* RV10-List: RV-10 Axle Extension Group Order - Reply by > Wednesday p.m. > > > > > Good news, everyone... > > Today I installed the axle extensions that my friend made from my > drawing and they worked out perfectly. I have some photos from > the install posted here: > > > http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20070118/index.html#Installation_of_new_extensions > > Now that I know they work, I'm going to do something stupid and > since some people found high machining costs, I'm going to coordinate > a group order for extensions that look like these. I had at least > 2 quotes come back with costs significantly lower than what other > people > were saying. My earlier drawing might actually be more expensive to > make than the final product drawing too. I'll have to re-quote it to > see if pricing will be any lower. > > My present quote that I'd go on was: $17.75ea @ quantity 40 and > $24.50ea @ quantity 20. (20 pairs and 10 pairs respectively) > > Now, what I'm going to do it this: If you want these extensions > for your plane, I'm only planning to have one run made up, so get them > now. Let me know by Wednesday night, and Thursday a.m. I'll order > them from the machining company and get the hardware on it's > way to me. They need to get the aluminum stock, so there will be > a small delay before they start making them. > You do not need to send payment right away...Yes, I know, that's > stupid, but I'm planning to write a check for well over $1000 to > cover the production, but only if the buyers are willing to commit > to paying for them. > > What you'll get: > 1 PAIR of Axle entensions, all drilled and tapped, 3-3/8" long so > they don't require the large flat washer. They should directly > replace the original part. You'll also get (3) AN5-6A bolts, > so you have one as a spare, for bolting them to the axle nut. > You'll also get (3) MS24693C298 screws for the outer ends, that > will be 1/4" longer than original so they don't back out and fall > off as easily (mine almost came out...use loctite!) And, I'm > going to send you (3) MS24665-292 cotter pins, and (3) > MS24665-362 cotter pins, so you have all of the hardware required > to attach them. > > Your job: Drill your existing holes on the axle nuts out to 5/16" > and deburr (I deburred mine today because I miss all the deburring > so much ;) ) Then assemble the AN5 bolt/washer to the extension and > torque. Then, use a #40 drill through the guide hole and drill > out the hole and the bolt to #40. Pin them together with the small > cotter pins, install the axle nuts and pin with the large pins. > Then secure the fairing with the 1/4" stainless machine screw. > > Since this is something I'm not doing for profit, I'm going to > make it easy on myself. They'll all be picked up at the same > time, and I'll throw them all into USPS Priority mail at the > same time. I'll split the costs of everything evenly, and round > any costs up to the next highest dollar. When all is said and > done, I'll tell you if the total with shipping is any higher than > my expectations...which would be between $45 and $55 per pair, > all complete to your door with the hardware. > > One exception: Since this isn't for-profit in any way, I'm going > to make it easy on myself and limit it to the US continental 48 > states only so I can use USPS Priority mail. > > Again, I'll only be doing this group order one time, so if you want > them, now's the time. After this order, if for some reason I'm > crazy enough to do it again, I'd add on extra cost for the time, and > it might be harder to get a good list of people together to keep > the price down. If for some reason we can't get 10 people for > this order, I won't bother, but my gut feeling is that we'll probably > easily make the 20 pair (quantity 40) level. I just want to do this > because after installing them I know they worked well for me, and > it'll keep you all from spending a fortune on one-offs from your > local machinist. In the spirit of "no up front money" that > we have today, you can send your payment either via paypal > or by check after you get them. I know everyone will pay up, because > we're all nice people and if you don't, I'll tell the list on you. ;) > If you pay by paypal though, add a little to cover the fees that > they charge. Tips are not required, but will be accepted if you're > just so happy after getting them that you really want to. ;) > > If the price for any reason looks like it'll be over $60, I will not > proceed without contacting everyone who got on the list first. > > Email me at my email address if you want to get on the list. > > -- > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - > > ==============================================http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List<=======================nbsp; > title=http://forums.matronics.com/ > > href="http://fo======================================================= > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:15 AM PST US From: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Wow! Outstanding. Never can tell how things will go. U have me on the list so here is my info. Doug Preston 2726 Paden Trail Birmingham, AL 35226 #40372 C-205-873-2955 Thanks again. dp ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:03:01 AM PST US From: "Mike Doble (Home Office)" Subject: RV10-List: Tools to Sell All - I'm convinced now that I need a pneumatic squeezer (thanks a lot Dave Leikam.). Any of you that are done want to part with yours??? If not, I'll call Avery or Cleveland Tool. Also, there was some discussion a few weeks ago about how to rivet the tail cone skins without wrinkles. Does anyone know what mushroom set was suggested for this? I seem to remember the Cleveland set with rubber guard (not the swivel). Mike Builder 40691. Working on my tail..20 hrs so far. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:20:49 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Flaring Tool From: "Michael Wellenzohn" Quick question which flaring tool will I need? Any suggestions which are affordable and deliver good quality? Thanks Michael -------- RV-10 builder (wings) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91549#91549 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:42 AM PST US From: MauleDriver Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tools to Sell Re the tail skins. The key for me so far is to backrivet as much as possible. I've been using a 12" X 30" X 3/8" steel plate (it doesn't have to be polished or milled flat) along with several pieces of 3/8" packing box plywood. I found that the Cleaveland backrivet set does a *much* better job than the ATS set I started with (see below) The long backrivet set along with a short one helps a lot too. Almost ever rivet forward of the 2 rearmost bulkheads can be back riveted. I haven't done the top skin yet. I plan to use the backrivet set and the backrivet bucking bar from Cleaveland for the top skin - but I'm looking for other advice here. From my previous post on backrivet sets: I've been using the backrivet set from ATS and getting acceptable results. However, I recently had my first opportunity to use a 12" long backrivet from Cleaveland and discovered that it was easier to get good results. The ATS has a thick plastic collar that I had to grind a flat spot on in order to get squarely on the J stiffener rivets. I've hit it twice more with the grinder to ease access on other rivets. The ATS also has a convex face on the set. I found that unless the set was well centered and straight, it was easy to get tilted, concave shop heads. The Cleaveland 12" tool (or whoever's tool they distribute) has a thin plastic collar and I found it fit the J stiffeners very nicely. The face of the set is flatter and it's easier to get square, flat shop heads. I just ordered their normal length backrivet set and understand it is setup the same as the 12". Mike Doble (Home Office) wrote: > > All Im convinced now that I need a pneumatic squeezer (thanks a lot > Dave Leikam). > > Any of you that are done want to part with yours??? If not, Ill call > Avery or Cleveland Tool. > > Also, there was some discussion a few weeks ago about how to rivet the > tail cone skins without wrinkles. > > Does anyone know what mushroom set was suggested for this? I seem to > remember the Cleveland set with rubber guard (not the swivel). > > Mike > > Builder 40691. Working on my tail20 hrs so far. > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:52 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flaring Tool From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Over everything else, make sure it is a 37 degree tool. All our fittings are 37 degrees which is different from normal automotive and other applications. That being said the Roloflare from Parker Hannifin is very popular and I like it. I believe it's around a Benjamin from the usual suspects such as: http://cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=TRF37 Michael Sausen -10 #352 limbo -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Wellenzohn Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 7:21 AM Subject: RV10-List: Flaring Tool Quick question which flaring tool will I need? Any suggestions which are affordable and deliver good quality? Thanks Michael -------- RV-10 builder (wings) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91549#91549 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:24 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flaring Tool I have the Parker Rolo-Flare and it seems to be a reasonable price and a good tool. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Michael Wellenzohn wrote: > > Quick question which flaring tool will I need? Any suggestions which are affordable and deliver good quality? > > Thanks > Michael > > -------- > RV-10 builder (wings) > #511 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91549#91549 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:08 AM PST US From: "gary" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Wow! I don't know if you have my GA address 3030 Orchard RD SW Conyers GA 30094 Thanks for all this work. You are appreciated Gary PS Come on down and warm up sometime. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 12:35 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Wow! Time to call it a day. Pretty much spent a lot of time returning emails and making lists today. You guys are pretty overwhelming. ;) You know, I had wondered if we could get 20 people together to make the cost low. As it turns out, today we're at 125....PEOPLE. That's 250 machined extensions. I am truly amazed. That's almost 1/5th of the current kit sales, all wanting parts within a little over 24 hours. Total costs with my local sales tax will come to just about $4700 at this point, if the quote stays the same. And after that, there's bolts and shipping and stuff. Whoda thunkit? But, RV guys are about the most reliable people I've met, so as much as it gets spooky, it's gonna happen. Still, no checks should be sent yet. Let's get the total costs figured out first. With a group this large, I'll have to quick get an estimate on all the packaging stuff and just make sure it all gets covered. I'm hoping that a large number of people like Paypal, as it sure beats going to the bank and writing a deposit slip up for 125 checks. ;) I checked on paypal fees and if I read it right, it's 2.9%+ $.30, so it only adds about $1.75 roughly. So there's about 36 hours left and I close the doors on the deal and start the gears of procurement and production. To you guys this may be a cool way to get some parts.... for me it's turning into a mind-blowing experience. ;) I do appreciate all the offers of help. I just so far think if I can just get all of you to send your mailing addresses in so I can complete my spreadsheet fields, it should go pretty smoothly. Sorry that they told me to expect a 2 week timeframe for manufacture. I'll see if I can get that reduced if possible. Thanks for the support for your positive comments. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:36 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Axle Extension Group Order - Reply by Wednesday p.m. From: "Bobby J. Hughes" Tim, I will take a pair. Thanks, Bobby Hughes 40116 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 6:41 PM Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Axle Extension Group Order - Reply by Wednesday p.m. Good news, everyone... Today I installed the axle extensions that my friend made from my drawing and they worked out perfectly. I have some photos from the install posted here: http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20070118/index.html#Installation_o f_new_extensions Now that I know they work, I'm going to do something stupid and since some people found high machining costs, I'm going to coordinate a group order for extensions that look like these. I had at least 2 quotes come back with costs significantly lower than what other people were saying. My earlier drawing might actually be more expensive to make than the final product drawing too. I'll have to re-quote it to see if pricing will be any lower. My present quote that I'd go on was: $17.75ea @ quantity 40 and $24.50ea @ quantity 20. (20 pairs and 10 pairs respectively) Now, what I'm going to do it this: If you want these extensions for your plane, I'm only planning to have one run made up, so get them now. Let me know by Wednesday night, and Thursday a.m. I'll order them from the machining company and get the hardware on it's way to me. They need to get the aluminum stock, so there will be a small delay before they start making them. You do not need to send payment right away...Yes, I know, that's stupid, but I'm planning to write a check for well over $1000 to cover the production, but only if the buyers are willing to commit to paying for them. What you'll get: 1 PAIR of Axle entensions, all drilled and tapped, 3-3/8" long so they don't require the large flat washer. They should directly replace the original part. You'll also get (3) AN5-6A bolts, so you have one as a spare, for bolting them to the axle nut. You'll also get (3) MS24693C298 screws for the outer ends, that will be 1/4" longer than original so they don't back out and fall off as easily (mine almost came out...use loctite!) And, I'm going to send you (3) MS24665-292 cotter pins, and (3) MS24665-362 cotter pins, so you have all of the hardware required to attach them. Your job: Drill your existing holes on the axle nuts out to 5/16" and deburr (I deburred mine today because I miss all the deburring so much ;) ) Then assemble the AN5 bolt/washer to the extension and torque. Then, use a #40 drill through the guide hole and drill out the hole and the bolt to #40. Pin them together with the small cotter pins, install the axle nuts and pin with the large pins. Then secure the fairing with the 1/4" stainless machine screw. Since this is something I'm not doing for profit, I'm going to make it easy on myself. They'll all be picked up at the same time, and I'll throw them all into USPS Priority mail at the same time. I'll split the costs of everything evenly, and round any costs up to the next highest dollar. When all is said and done, I'll tell you if the total with shipping is any higher than my expectations...which would be between $45 and $55 per pair, all complete to your door with the hardware. One exception: Since this isn't for-profit in any way, I'm going to make it easy on myself and limit it to the US continental 48 states only so I can use USPS Priority mail. Again, I'll only be doing this group order one time, so if you want them, now's the time. After this order, if for some reason I'm crazy enough to do it again, I'd add on extra cost for the time, and it might be harder to get a good list of people together to keep the price down. If for some reason we can't get 10 people for this order, I won't bother, but my gut feeling is that we'll probably easily make the 20 pair (quantity 40) level. I just want to do this because after installing them I know they worked well for me, and it'll keep you all from spending a fortune on one-offs from your local machinist. In the spirit of "no up front money" that we have today, you can send your payment either via paypal or by check after you get them. I know everyone will pay up, because we're all nice people and if you don't, I'll tell the list on you. ;) If you pay by paypal though, add a little to cover the fees that they charge. Tips are not required, but will be accepted if you're just so happy after getting them that you really want to. ;) If the price for any reason looks like it'll be over $60, I will not proceed without contacting everyone who got on the list first. Email me at my email address if you want to get on the list. -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:34 AM PST US From: Werner Schneider Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flaring Tool Hi Michael, you could for sure borough this tools from another Swiss builder, as this are common tools more or less used for all the aircraft's plumbing. Take care Werner Michael Wellenzohn wrote: > > Quick question which flaring tool will I need? Any suggestions which are affordable and deliver good quality? > > Thanks > Michael > > -------- > RV-10 builder (wings) > #511 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91549#91549 > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:34 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: How does this tank test kit work? From: "reubanks" Hi Dan, Yes, I used the entire URL before I sent the reply. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91572#91572 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:34 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Flaring Tool From: "Michael Wellenzohn" Great thanks guys for the help. All the shipping costs just hurt though. So far I paid well over 3k $ just for shipping :x Michael -------- RV-10 builder (wings) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91573#91573 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:31 AM PST US From: Les Kearney Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tools to Sell Mike Call the yardstore (www.yardstore.com ) as they sell good quality *used* pneumatic squeezers and they stand behind what they sell. Cheers Les Kearney Rv10 # 40643 - Not riveting due to wristus fractus -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Doble (Home Office) Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 6:03 AM Subject: RV10-List: Tools to Sell All - I'm convinced now that I need a pneumatic squeezer (thanks a lot Dave Leikam.). Any of you that are done want to part with yours??? If not, I'll call Avery or Cleveland Tool. Also, there was some discussion a few weeks ago about how to rivet the tail cone skins without wrinkles. Does anyone know what mushroom set was suggested for this? I seem to remember the Cleveland set with rubber guard (not the swivel). Mike Builder 40691. Working on my tail..20 hrs so far. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:08 AM PST US From: "John Cram" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Wow! Tim, Add me to your extender list. John Cram 2809 Westchester Cir. Pearland, TX, 77584 ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Olson To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 12:46 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Wow! > No problem Jeff. I've had a bunch of offers of help, but what gets me is that if I shipped them somewhere for reshipping, that just increases the cost...so I'm trying to keep it low. You're probably right on the pricing...the old quote for 40 was $17.75, so it's likely going to be lower now by a ways. I'm up to 90 people, for 180 units. At $15 that's $2700 to spend on the machining. ;) It's far more quantity than I figured it would be, but it's do-able. As long as people are helping with the international stuff, that makes it easier. The reason I went USPS is because you get the box for free and it's a flat-rate charge that should be identical. I doubt that the manufacturer will want to deal with shipping, but for this one-shot thing, I don't mind. We'll just see how good it all gets. I know some people are wanting these a.s.a.p, so I'm going to hold to a Thursday 8am CST deadline and then just have some made up. At that point at least I'll know how much hardware to order. Glad I didn't do that this a.m. or I'd be WAAAY short. You know, this would make a heck of a lot more sense if I was still building and needed a pair. Call me a sucker, but you guys have just grown on me over the past 3 years. ;) Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Jeff Carpenter wrote: > > > Hi Tim, > > My time spent estimating tells me that these are costing $11.00 each > after the initial set up costs... so that an order of 150 pieces should > wind up around 14.50 each... or $29.00 per pair... but I'd imagine that > you're really going to be looking at ordering between 250 and 300 pieces > by the time the dust settles on this. For example,I think I'll be > ordering two pair, as Nick Gautier is building around the corner from me > and I just need to confirm that he wants them as well. > > I am concerned that you'll be spending a big chunk of your time shipping > these out as the list grows and don't think any of us want you to have > to go through all that. Perhaps the manufacturer is set up for UPS > shipping and for a nominal fee they can handle that for you. I'd be > happy to forgo some of the savings from this amazing group buy to save > you that time and effort.... or you could drop ship a batch to me and a > few others around the country and we could split up the work of getting > them all out. > > > Jeff Carpenter > 40304 > > > On Jan 29, 2007, at 7:05 AM, Tim Olson wrote: > > >> >> There you have it, another great guy steps up to the >> plate to help those over the ocean. >> >> What a group we have. >> >> 77 now. Dan, did you want them for you or are you just >> doing the straight shaft ones on the cheap? >> >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying >> do not archive >> >> >> Lloyd, Daniel R. wrote: >>> > >>> Tim for everyone in Europe and further East I will help with the >>> packaging and sending. Just send me the list of people and I will make >>> sure it gets out to them. I think there was one from Germany, and I do >>> not know how many others, but I can help. >>> Dan >>> N289DT -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson >>> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 9:18 AM >>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: RV10-List: Wow! > >>> I would have never guessed...my inbox is filling up as fast as I >>> can reply, and we're up to 72 now. I think I'm going to be a >>> busy guy. >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:44 AM PST US From: Shawn Moon Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Wow! Ok, so I must have missed it somewhere, but what is the issue that the exte nsions address? Hopefully I am not the only person wondering this. I real ly try to keep up, but with the amount of e-mails this list generates I som etimes miss things trying to catch up.=0A=0A--Shawn=0A40366=0A=0A----- Orig inal Message ----=0AFrom: Tim Olson =0ATo: rv10-list@matron ics.com=0ASent: Monday, January 29, 2007 11:35:12 PM=0ASubject: Re: RV10-Li m>=0A=0ATime to call it a day. Pretty much spent a lot of time=0Areturning emails and making lists today. You guys are=0Apretty overwhelming. ;) Y ou know, I had wondered if we=0Acould get 20 people together to make the co st low. As=0Ait turns out, today we're at 125....PEOPLE. That's 250=0Amac hined extensions. I am truly amazed. That's almost=0A1/5th of the current kit sales, all wanting parts within=0Aa little over 24 hours. Total costs with my local sales=0Atax will come to just about $4700 at this point, if the=0Aquote stays the same. And after that, there's bolts=0Aand shipping a nd stuff. Whoda thunkit? But, RV guys=0Aare about the most reliable peop le I've met, so as much=0Aas it gets spooky, it's gonna happen. Still, no checks=0Ashould be sent yet. Let's get the total costs figured=0Aout first . With a group this large, I'll have to=0Aquick get an estimate on all the packaging stuff and=0Ajust make sure it all gets covered. I'm hoping that =0Aa large number of people like Paypal, as it sure beats=0Agoing to the ba nk and writing a deposit slip up for=0A125 checks. ;) I checked on paypal fees and if I read=0Ait right, it's 2.9%+ $.30, so it only adds about $1.75 =0Aroughly.=0A=0ASo there's about 36 hours left and I close the doors on=0A the deal and start the gears of procurement and production.=0ATo you guys t his may be a cool way to get some parts....=0Afor me it's turning into a mi nd-blowing experience. ;)=0A=0AI do appreciate all the offers of help. I j ust so far=0Athink if I can just get all of you to send your mailing=0Aaddr esses in so I can complete my spreadsheet fields,=0Ait should go pretty smo othly.=0A=0ASorry that they told me to expect a 2 week timeframe=0Afor manu facture. I'll see if I can get that reduced=0Aif possible.=0A=0AThanks for the support for your positive comments.=0A=0ATim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Fl ========0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A_________________ ___________________________________________________________________=0ANeed a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know.=0AAsk your questio n on www.Answers.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:34 AM PST US From: "John Cram" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tools to Sell Good luck getting someone to part with their squeezer. It is a "Charlton Heston" tool. Cold dead hands speech>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Les Kearney To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 9:25 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tools to Sell Mike Call the yardstore (www.yardstore.com) as they sell good quality *used* pneumatic squeezers and they stand behind what they sell. Cheers Les Kearney Rv10 # 40643 - Not riveting due to wristus fractus -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Doble (Home Office) Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 6:03 AM To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Tools to Sell All - I'm convinced now that I need a pneumatic squeezer (thanks a lot Dave Leikam.). Any of you that are done want to part with yours??? If not, I'll call Avery or Cleveland Tool. Also, there was some discussion a few weeks ago about how to rivet the tail cone skins without wrinkles. Does anyone know what mushroom set was suggested for this? I seem to remember the Cleveland set with rubber guard (not the swivel). Mike Builder 40691. Working on my tail..20 hrs so far. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:40 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Axle Extension Group Order - Reply by Wednesday p.m. From: "Phillips, Jack" Tim, I'll take a set as well. Any chance they'll be ready by Sun 'n' Fun? If you are going to SNF maybe you could distribute them there. Jack Phillips #40610 Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of millstees@ameritech.net Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 8:52 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Axle Extension Group Order - Reply by Wednesday p.m. Tim: I'll take a pair Steve Mills RV-10 40486 Slow-build Naperville, Illinois finishing fuselage Do Not Archive 630-308-7476 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of David Maib Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 7:29 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Axle Extension Group Order - Reply by Wednesday p.m. Tim, I will take a set. Thank you so much for all you do for this group of builders. Fantastic! David Maib #40559 struggling with elevator trim (grrrrrr) On Jan 28, 2007, at 6:41 PM, Tim Olson wrote: Good news, everyone... Today I installed the axle extensions that my friend made from my drawing and they worked out perfectly. I have some photos from the install posted here: http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20070118/ index.html#Installation_of_new_extensions Now that I know they work, I'm going to do something stupid and since some people found high machining costs, I'm going to coordinate a group order for extensions that look like these. I had at least 2 quotes come back with costs significantly lower than what other people were saying. My earlier drawing might actually be more expensive to make than the final product drawing too. I'll have to re-quote it to see if pricing will be any lower. My present quote that I'd go on was: $17.75ea @ quantity 40 and $24.50ea @ quantity 20. (20 pairs and 10 pairs respectively) Now, what I'm going to do it this: If you want these extensions for your plane, I'm only planning to have one run made up, so get them now. Let me know by Wednesday night, and Thursday a.m. I'll order them from the machining company and get the hardware on it's way to me. They need to get the aluminum stock, so there will be a small delay before they start making them. You do not need to send payment right away...Yes, I know, that's stupid, but I'm planning to write a check for well over $1000 to cover the production, but only if the buyers are willing to commit to paying for them. What you'll get: 1 PAIR of Axle entensions, all drilled and tapped, 3-3/8" long so they don't require the large flat washer. They should directly replace the original part. You'll also get (3) AN5-6A bolts, so you have one as a spare, for bolting them to the axle nut. You'll also get (3) MS24693C298 screws for the outer ends, that will be 1/4" longer than original so they don't back out and fall off as easily (mine almost came out...use loctite!) And, I'm going to send you (3) MS24665-292 cotter pins, and (3) MS24665-362 cotter pins, so you have all of the hardware required to attach them. Your job: Drill your existing holes on the axle nuts out to 5/16" and deburr (I deburred mine today because I miss all the deburring so much ;) ) Then assemble the AN5 bolt/washer to the extension and torque. Then, use a #40 drill through the guide hole and drill out the hole and the bolt to #40. Pin them together with the small cotter pins, install the axle nuts and pin with the large pins. Then secure the fairing with the 1/4" stainless machine screw. Since this is something I'm not doing for profit, I'm going to make it easy on myself. They'll all be picked up at the same time, and I'll throw them all into USPS Priority mail at the same time. I'll split the costs of everything evenly, and round any costs up to the next highest dollar. When all is said and done, I'll tell you if the total with shipping is any higher than my expectations...which would be between $45 and $55 per pair, all complete to your door with the hardware. One exception: Since this isn't for-profit in any way, I'm going to make it easy on myself and limit it to the US continental 48 states only so I can use USPS Priority mail. Again, I'll only be doing this group order one time, so if you want them, now's the time. After this order, if for some reason I'm crazy enough to do it again, I'd add on extra cost for the time, and it might be harder to get a good list of people together to keep the price down. If for some reason we can't get 10 people for this order, I won't bother, but my gut feeling is that we'll probably easily make the 20 pair (quantity 40) level. I just want to do this because after installing them I know they worked well for me, and it'll keep you all from spending a fortune on one-offs from your local machinist. In the spirit of "no up front money" that we have today, you can send your payment either via paypal or by check after you get them. I know everyone will pay up, because we're all nice people and if you don't, I'll tell the list on you. ;) If you pay by paypal though, add a little to cover the fees that they charge. Tips are not required, but will be accepted if you're just so happy after getting them that you really want to. ;) If the price for any reason looks like it'll be over $60, I will not proceed without contacting everyone who got on the list first. Email me at my email address if you want to get on the list. -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying _________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:36 AM PST US From: "Pascal" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tools to Sell Check out Brown Tools http://www.browntool.com/productselect.asp?ProductID=767 they have the lowest price I have seen for a new squeezer Pascal ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Doble (Home Office) To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 5:03 AM Subject: RV10-List: Tools to Sell All - I'm convinced now that I need a pneumatic squeezer (thanks a lot Dave Leikam.). Any of you that are done want to part with yours??? If not, I'll call Avery or Cleveland Tool. Also, there was some discussion a few weeks ago about how to rivet the tail cone skins without wrinkles. Does anyone know what mushroom set was suggested for this? I seem to remember the Cleveland set with rubber guard (not the swivel). Mike Builder 40691. Working on my tail..20 hrs so far. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:19:06 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Wow! From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Apparently several people have experienced bolt failures because the structure isn't beefy enough. I'm sure those people will chime in with the exact facts. I'm not flying so I'm just going by my interpretation from previous accounts. These failures can cause your wheel pant to come loose and cause a host of other problems. I would go as far as to say it is a short coming in the design of the part but I might get lambasted for it. Wait, since when do I care. It's a shortcoming in the part that will be more prevalent depending on the types of operation that you perform. Hard landings and soft surface being the two things that exasperate the problem. I'm guessing Van's will eventually correct the problem but for now it is left to the builders. No sense in Van changing things to accommodate just a few people that may have the problem. Oops, there I go again. J Michael Sausen -10 #352 Limbo From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Moon Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 9:43 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Wow! Ok, so I must have missed it somewhere, but what is the issue that the extensions address? Hopefully I am not the only person wondering this. I really try to keep up, but with the amount of e-mails this list generates I sometimes miss things trying to catch up. --Shawn 40366 ----- Original Message ---- From: Tim Olson Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 11:35:12 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Wow! Time to call it a day. Pretty much spent a lot of time returning emails and making lists today. You guys are pretty overwhelming. ;) You know, I had wondered if we could get 20 people together to make the cost low. As it turns out, today we're at 125....PEOPLE. That's 250 machined extensions. I am truly amazed. That's almost 1/5th of the current kit sales, all wanting parts within a little over 24 hours. Total costs with my local sales tax will come to just about $4700 at this point, if the quote stays the same. And after that, there's bolts and shipping and stuff. Whoda thunkit? But, RV guys are about the most reliable people I've met, so as much as it gets spooky, it's gonna happen. Still, no checks should be sent yet. Let's get the total costs figured out first. With a group this large, I'll have to quick get an estimate on all the packaging stuff and just make sure it all gets covered. I'm hoping that a large number of people like Paypal, as it sure beats going to the bank and writing a deposit slip up for 125 checks. ;) I checked on paypal fees and if I read it right, it's 2.9%+ $.30, so it only adds about $1.75 roughly. So there's about 36 hours left and I close the doors on the deal and start the gears of procurement and production. To you guys this may be a cool way to get some parts.... for me it's turning into a mind-blowing experience. ;) I do appreciate all the offers of help. I just so far think if I can just get all of you to send your mailing addresses in so I can complete my spreadsheet fields, it should go pretty smoothly. Sorry that they told me to expect a 2 week timeframe for manufacture. I'll see if I can get that reduced if possible. Thanks for the support for your positive comments. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive =========== http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:36 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Wow! Shawn, Here's a page I set up: http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20070118/index.html Basically, we owe it all to Russ Daves, who got us started by telling us his experience where the bolt failed, and wrecked his wheel fairing. Not cheap or fun. It appears that the skinny-ness of the normal stem allowed it to rock back and forth and cause eventual stress cracks on the bolt, which was only an AN4 to begin with. Then it snapped, and your fairing can hit the ground or rub on the tire and rip itself up. Jesse then chimed in that they've had this happen too. So with a couple of known cases, people started thinking. My initial reaction was that perhaps there was something different with the installation that caused it to fail easier since I had more time on mine with no problems. BUT, looking at how it's made, it's easy to see how it could break. So I put it on my to-do list to get some. At the same time, a couple of offers of manufacturing came up at $125/pr. I wanted some, but would do just about anything to not pay that kind of price. I thought $50 was more realistic....and I set out to prove it and got quotes that did. The new parts have a wide base that doesn't allow them to rock, and has a thicker AN5 Bolt, so if the old was "good enough" for Van's, the new should be "really good enough". But, then we get to the issue that the price will indeed be high if everyone just wanted a single pair from some machine shop. My own friend said about $80/pr if he did them on his home lathe. He did mine for free to see if the design would work. I didn't want to do anything with large orders unless they fit perfectly and looked good. Well, they did. I figured maybe 20 people would be interested....but apparently it's a lot more interesting for people, as they never want to have to deal with broken fairings or dents in their plane from a fairing crunch. So they're the popular item of the week, since I'm only doing one order of them. I do believe, from talking to a couple of people, that when the dust settles, you'll find that someone will start making and selling these at some in-between price....so it's not an emergency to get them right away. But, for now this will be a way to get them as cheap as possible. I'll feel like a bit of a heel though if suddenly Van's offers the same thing as a replacement part. ;) (haven't heard a peep from them) So anyway, that's the nutshell. Tim do not archive Shawn Moon wrote: > Ok, so I must have missed it somewhere, but what is the issue that the > extensions address? Hopefully I am not the only person wondering this. > I really try to keep up, but with the amount of e-mails this list > generates I sometimes miss things trying to catch up. > > --Shawn > 40366 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:11 AM PST US From: Shawn Moon Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tools to Sell Mike,=0A I use the mushroom set with rubber guard that you are referring to. At first I didn't like it because the rubber was to thick and the riv et popped out a little bit. I ended up trimming down the rubber and it wor ks great now. Much easier to do single-person riveting with the rubber "ho lding" the rivet gun in place. Prior to doing that I had sworn off single- person riveting with a bucking bar. I have not used the swivel one so I ca n't comment on that.=0A=0A--Shawn=0A40366=0A=0A----- Original Message ---- =0AFrom: Mike Doble (Home Office) =0ATo: rv10-list@mat ronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 7:03:15 AM=0ASubject: RV10-Lis t: Tools to Sell=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AAll ' I=92m convinced now th at I need a pneumatic squeezer=0A(thanks a lot Dave Leikam=85).=0A =0A=0A =0A =0A=0AAny of you that are done want to part with yours??? If=0Anot, I =92ll call Avery or Cleveland Tool.=0A =0A=0A =0A =0A=0AAlso, there was so me discussion a few weeks ago about how to=0Arivet the tail cone skins with out wrinkles.=0A =0A=0A =0A =0A=0ADoes anyone know what mushroom set was s uggested for=0Athis? I seem to remember the Cleveland =0Aset with rubber g uard (not the swivel).=0A =0A=0A =0A =0A=0AMike=0A =0A=0A =0A =0A=0ABuild er 40691. Working on my tail=85=8520 hrs=0Aso far.=0A =0A=0A =0A =0A=0A =========================0A -======================== ============0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A______________ ______________________________________________________________________=0AIt 's here! Your new message! =0AGet new email alerts with the free Yahoo! To olbar.=0Ahttp://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:54 AM PST US From: "Jesse Saint" Subject: RE: RV10-List: How does this tank test kit work? Either I got a different kit, or we are looking at things differently, because it worked for me. You put a balloon on the vent fitting and seal it with a rubberband, put the tank fitting in the finger strainer and cap it with the cap that comes in the kit, then put the little valve stem dealy (technical term) in the sump hole, cap the tank with the filler cap and fill with air until the balloon fills up and then check for leaks. Hope this helps. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen) Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 6:54 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: How does this tank test kit work? Unfortunately, almost everything in that kit is useless and doesn't apply to the -10. You will have to improvise most of it. Michael Sausen -10 #352 Limbo -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Wellenzohn Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 2:02 PM Subject: RV10-List: How does this tank test kit work? Hello I purchased Vans tank test kit but how should this fuel feed cover is supposed to work? Am I missing something here? Regards Michael -------- RV-10 builder (wings) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91096#91096 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/20070128_wings_01_503.jpg -- 5:02 PM ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:39 AM PST US From: Larry Rosen Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tools to Sell Try ebay for the pneumatic squeezer. Use this for the search string, including the brackets. (squeezer,squeazer,squeezers,squeazers,squeeze,squeaze) (rivet, rivit) They are tough to find, but you may get lucky. Nothing on ebay now unless you are looking for a Tatco hand squeezer. Larry Rosen N205EN (reserved) Mike Doble (Home Office) wrote: > > All Im convinced now that I need a pneumatic squeezer (thanks a lot > Dave Leikam). > > Any of you that are done want to part with yours??? If not, Ill call > Avery or Cleveland Tool. > > Also, there was some discussion a few weeks ago about how to rivet the > tail cone skins without wrinkles. > > Does anyone know what mushroom set was suggested for this? I seem to > remember the Cleveland set with rubber guard (not the swivel). > > Mike > > Builder 40691. Working on my tail20 hrs so far. > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:48 AM PST US From: "Jesse Saint" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Axle Extension Group Order - Reply by Wednesday p.m. Tim, Please put me down for 3 sets. Thanks. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AndrewTR30 Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 10:03 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Axle Extension Group Order - Reply by Wednesday p.m. Tim, add me to the buyers list please. Andrew Rayhill Phoenix -------- Andrew Rayhill RV-10 40078 Phoenix Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91484#91484 -- 5:02 PM ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:30 AM PST US From: "Dave & Brenda Emond" Subject: Re: RV10-List: IO 540 Performance I am looking for a copy of the performance specs for a Lycoming IO 540 - D4A5, or similar 260hp Lyco. Power curves etc! Dave Emond 40159 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:15 AM PST US From: "Jesse Saint" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Return? This is how we did it in the tunnel (the line on the right above the brake line is the return line). It can then go out to that tank or can "T" into that line and you will want to pull from the other tank when purging the hot fuel (if you are doing it that way). Has anybody else lined up the fuel system to allow for straight lines connecting the pump, filter and flowscan? Am I missing the reason they are not lined up to start with? Hope this helps. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Parlow Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 6:13 PM Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Return? Looking for input and suggestions on plumbing a fuel return. I'm planning ahead and installing it in preparation for a future electronic fuel system. And farther out the diesel engine................. ;-) Both systems will require a fuel return to the tank. With the Subaru's(Eggenfellner) needing this now I assume it's being done already. They have a good instruction page on how to install a return in -6A on their site. ERic-- -- 5:02 PM ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:07 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: IO 540 Performance Here you go: http://www.myrv10.com/tips/engine_IO540.html do not archive Dave & Brenda Emond wrote: > I am looking for a copy of the performance specs for a Lycoming IO 540 - > D4A5, or similar 260hp Lyco. > > Power curves etc! > > Dave Emond > 40159 > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:07 AM PST US From: "Pascal" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tools to Sell toolsez on ebay http://stores.ebay.com/Toolsez-1 always has squeezers and guarantee the product for 90 days. They usually sell the squeezers (ab)used for between $255-300 range. There is a Tatco 214 3000 psi squeezer out there ends Feb5 (Sunday). If you're into taking chances this is a decent company to do so with. If I was going to buy a squeezer today (I would not tell everyone about this one ;-) I would bid on the Tatco since it's rare there is anything "new" for sale. But truthfully for a 125K plane I would just get the right tools and buy it new. No used power tools that may just not be smooth anymore for me, and ebay has many of those.. but than again you might just get lucky. You a gambling person? Ebay may be the place for your aircraft tools! Pascal opinion subject to change without notice with the right sales on ebay. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Rosen" Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 9:28 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tools to Sell > > Try ebay for the pneumatic squeezer. > > Use this for the search string, including the brackets. > (squeezer,squeazer,squeezers,squeazers,squeeze,squeaze) (rivet, rivit) > > They are tough to find, but you may get lucky. Nothing on ebay now unless > you are looking for a Tatco hand squeezer. > > Larry Rosen > N205EN (reserved) > > Mike Doble (Home Office) wrote: >> >> All Im convinced now that I need a pneumatic squeezer (thanks a lot >> Dave Leikam). >> >> Any of you that are done want to part with yours??? If not, Ill call >> Avery or Cleveland Tool. >> >> Also, there was some discussion a few weeks ago about how to rivet the >> tail cone skins without wrinkles. >> >> Does anyone know what mushroom set was suggested for this? I seem to >> remember the Cleveland set with rubber guard (not the swivel). >> >> Mike >> >> Builder 40691. Working on my tail20 hrs so far. >> >> * >> >> >> * > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:18:31 AM PST US From: "Pascal" Subject: Re: RV10-List: IO 540 Performance I believe Tim Olsen's site has everything you ever need for information. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave & Brenda Emond To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 9:43 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: IO 540 Performance I am looking for a copy of the performance specs for a Lycoming IO 540 - D4A5, or similar 260hp Lyco. Power curves etc! Dave Emond 40159 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:50 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Re: RV10-List: IO 540 Performance At Tims web site: http://www.myrv10.com/tips/engine_IO540.html =========================================================== From: "Dave & Brenda Emond" Subject: Re: RV10-List: IO 540 Performance I am looking for a copy of the performance specs for a Lycoming IO 540 - D4A5, or similar 260hp Lyco. Power curves etc! Dave Emond 40159 =========================================================== ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 10:54:03 AM PST US From: "Dave & Brenda Emond" Subject: Re: RV10-List: IO 540 Performance Thanks Tim Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 8:06 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: IO 540 Performance > > > Here you go: > http://www.myrv10.com/tips/engine_IO540.html > > do not archive > > Dave & Brenda Emond wrote: >> I am looking for a copy of the performance specs for a Lycoming IO 540 - >> D4A5, or similar 260hp Lyco. >> Power curves etc! >> Dave Emond >> 40159 >> > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:54 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Return? From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." The one caveat I would like to put out there for Alternative engines users, is that in the Eggenfellner install, and any other that will require a high volume pump, the fuel should be returned to the same tank that it was drawn from, preventing an overflow situation. This is why we use a duplex fuel valve, so it automagically rolls the return line to the correct tank. Dan N289DT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 12:58 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Return? This is how we did it in the tunnel (the line on the right above the brake line is the return line). It can then go out to that tank or can "T" into that line and you will want to pull from the other tank when purging the hot fuel (if you are doing it that way). Has anybody else lined up the fuel system to allow for straight lines connecting the pump, filter and flowscan? Am I missing the reason they are not lined up to start with? Hope this helps. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Parlow Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 6:13 PM Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Return? Looking for input and suggestions on plumbing a fuel return. I'm planning ahead and installing it in preparation for a future electronic fuel system. And farther out the diesel engine................. ;-) Both systems will require a fuel return to the tank. With the Subaru's(Eggenfellner) needing this now I assume it's being done already. They have a good instruction page on how to install a return in -6A on their site. ERic-- -- 5:02 PM ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 01:01:49 PM PST US From: "Eric Parlow" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Return? Jesse, Does your fuel return have a separate selector? We plan to use the Andair duplex valve (p/n FS 20-20-D2) using -6 lines for both supply and return. We also built a "shelf" off the floor of the tunnel to mount the filter/pump/sensor to. This allowed us to put 2-3" of insulation directly on the tunnel floor under the pump/sensor. Also, we wrapped the brake lines with nylon spiral wrap in the tunnel. After the insulation was packed into the tunnel for a trial fit we found the brake and fuel lines could chafe on the shop heads of the rivets directly below them in the tunnel. Here's a few pictures of the lines, valve, pass-thrus, parking brake, and the center console. ERic-- 40014, N104EP ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Jesse Saint" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Return? This is how we did it in the tunnel (the line on the right above the brake line is the return line). It can then go out to that tank or can "T" into that line and you will want to pull from the other tank when purging the hot fuel (if you are doing it that way). Has anybody else lined up the fuel system to allow for straight lines connecting the pump, filter and flowscan? Am I missing the reason they are not lined up to start with? Hope this helps. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 03:09:34 PM PST US From: "Dave Leikam" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator movement I studied my binding elevators and found the problem. It was two fold, although I don't think the first part caused binding. I had posted that the right top elevator horn bearing hole was slightly off. I simply elongated the hole less than .5 mm and the bolt slides right through. I don't believe once the washers and bolt are in place and secure that this will cause any problem. Second, you must insert several washers between the center bearing and the elevator horns. The plans stress that you must "fill the gap completely or the rod end bearings can bind." When I insert washers to take up the space, on the right side they cause too much pressure and cause the bind. If I remove one there is a slight gap and after tightening, it binds as well. I need a washer half the thickness of AN960-416L. Seems odd that such a small width would cause the binding, but it does. I know this because if I loosen the bolt through the center bearing, the elevator is smooth as silk. If I apply side pressure to the elevator, the binding can be felt. With all hardware installed, everything lines up dead nuts. I just need to fill that gap without adding lateral pressure. The same gap on the left side of the bearing accepts two washers with no gap and no excess pressure and no binding. So where can I find a washer .016" thick? Or is it .008"? AN960-416LL? Could I use a stainless one from Ace Hardware if I can find one that will fit? Or should I just sand one of mine down? Dave Leikam 40496 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Leikam" Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 12:06 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator movement > > Thanks for the ideas guys. I have not had a chance to really study the > misaligned horn hole problem. (that sounded off) I plan to look at the > problem in depth this week and make a decision on what the best and safest > action to take will be. I think I know the cause, too much pressure on > the drill caused the horn to flex up slightly. Let the bit do the work > guys and gals! > > I will have to study the affect on the bottom hole as well. I think I can > get things straightened out however because the misalignment is very > small. > > The hole is a hair lower than it should be. I think less than 1 mm. If I > were to elongate the hole up to meet the bearing hole, the only way for > the horn to shift would be a hair up. Being that the horn is clamped to > the bearing between washers, and the assembly wants to stay in the aligned > position, I wonder if the operation would be safe. > I will probably call Vans for their opinion. I'll post my findings and > fix. > > Lincoln logs, legos and tinker toys were so easy! > > Dave > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Gonzalez" > To: > Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:36 AM > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Elevator movement > > >> >> Dave and Jesse, >> >> Another option not mentioned and this is what i did was to get everything >> alinged, trailing edges and counterweight arms to the ends of the HS, use >> the hole which has the most meat around it as the keeper and then >> fabricate a plate for the other horn which can be riveted with six 4-4 >> rivets. The steel plate should be of equal thickness and same type of >> steel as the original horn and be long enough to overlap atleast 2 1/2 of >> the lightening holes in the elev horn. This plate can also have >> lightening holes. >> >> So the idea is to only slightly enlarge the bad hole. Lock everything >> into alignment, put your plate in with the hole already drilled in it, >> index everything and lock it down, then drill your rivet holes for >> fastening the plate to the horn. Everything should be indexed and locked >> DOWN. The gap between both horn needs to be indexed again with a block of >> some type of material, perfectly perpendicular hole in all dimensions. >> The horn should not flex when you clamp this block in place. >> >> This will yeild you a perfectly trimmed out trailing edge on both sides >> and the counterbalance arms to the HS. >> >>>From a safety standpoint, if for some damm reason all six rivets >>>seperated, >> then the slightly enlarged hole in the original elevator is still there >> and will keep th plane flying. DO disaster!!!! >> >> JOhn G. >> >> 409 thinking about those diving mask games. >> >> >> >> >>>From: "Jesse Saint" >>>To: >>>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Elevator movement >>>Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 08:55:00 -0500 >>> >>>Dave, >>> >>> >>> >>>My first question is, if you get the top hole fixed, what does that do to >>>your bottom hole? One option is to get another horn and do it again. >>>The >>>next option is to make the hole bigger, have a plate welded in there to >>>make >>>the new hole. Another option is to have a washer welded in there after >>>making the hole a little bigger to fit. Another option is to have >>>someone >>>weld the hole closed, then redrill the hole (it has to be an expert >>>welder). >>>Another option is the just talk to Van's and see what they say. Another >>>option is to make a new elevator, but I don't recommend this or the first >>>one. >>> >>> >>> >>>There will be a lot of suggestions from others, but these are the ones I >>>could come up with quickly (I have seen this problem before more than >>>once, >>>and we had the hole welded closed and redrilled. >>> >>> >>> >>>Do not archive. >>> >>> >>> >>>Jesse Saint >>> >>>Saint Aviation, Inc. >>> >>>jesse@saintaviation.com >>> >>>www.saintaviation.com >>> >>>Cell: 352-427-0285 >>> >>>Fax: 815-377-3694 >>> >>> _____ >>> >>>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam >>>Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 11:50 PM >>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com >>>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator movement >>> >>> >>> >>>I unbolted the center bearing at the top of the elevator horns and sure >>>enough, the hole on the top of the right horn is a touch lower than it >>>needs >>>to be. Just enough to cause the horn to flex up less than 1 mm with the >>>bolt in. This is causing the bind. Now what to do? >>> >>> >>> >>>I followed the plans and put the drill bushing in my DeWalt 12 volt and >>>put >>>a file to it until it fit into the bearing. No problem with that. The >>>bottom holes of the horn came out fine as well using the wood block. >>> >>> >>> >>>Dave Leikam >>> >>>40496 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>> >>>From: Jesse Saint >>> >>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com >>> >>>Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 6:41 AM >>> >>>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Elevator movement >>> >>> >>> >>>That sounds to me like the holes in the horns that bolt together with the >>>AN4-13A (or whatever it is) night not be quite lined up. I would pull >>>that >>>bolt out and see if that makes the difference. If you are connected to >>>the >>>pushrod, pull that off as well and find out, adding one thing at a time, >>>where the problem is. I know it is a pain to get those washers in on the >>>AN4 bolt, but removing a number of things and then adding them one at a >>>time >>>to see what makes the difference would be my suggestion. If it is not >>>that >>>the holes are misaligned, then it could be that you have too many/few >>>washers around that bearing and it is getting a little distorted when >>>tightened and putting drag on the system. It is not hard at all to get >>>that >>>hold a little off center, so that is where I would recommend looking. >>> >>> >>> >>>BTW, did anybody else have problems with the drill bushing not fitting in >>>the bearing. With a lathe that problem is easily fixed, but we ended up >>>having to have a bushing machined from scratch to do that drilling. >>>Also, >>>on drilling the horns for the pushrod, use a block of aluminum instead of >>>a >>>block of wood as Van's suggests, and make sure that when you measure to >>>drill the first horn that it is not hanging lower than the other, because >>>that might put you too close to the edge of the second. Anybody having >>>the >>>horns quite a bit out of alignment? I have seen some that are over >>>inch >>>out of alignment and others that are perfectly lined up. The plans say >>>that >>>they might not be quite right, but that is a lot of variation. >>> >>> >>> >>>Hope this helps. I was working on that exact thing this week, so it is >>>pretty fresh. Let me know how it comes out. >>> >>> >>> >>>Jesse Saint >>> >>>Saint Aviation, Inc. >>> >>>jesse@saintaviation.com >>> >>>www.saintaviation.com >>> >>>Cell: 352-427-0285 >>> >>>Fax: 815-377-3694 >>> >>> >>> _____ >>> >>> >>>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam >>>Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:44 AM >>>To: matronics >>>Subject: RV10-List: Elevator movement >>> >>> >>> >>>Tonight I installed my elevators and control tube. After install, the >>>freedom of movement seemed a bit tight. The elevators do not sag freely. >>>They will stay in any position I put them. Not binding, but just a bit >>>tight. Everything lines up perfectly. Before I installed the center >>>bolt >>>under the VS, they each sagged more freely. They have very smooth >>>movement >>>just the same. Anyone have this experience? >>> >>> >>> >>>Dave Leikam >>> >>>40496 >>> >>> >>> >>>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>>http://forums.matronics.com >>> >>> >>> >>>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com >>>/Navigator?RV10-List >>>href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 04:30:01 PM PST US From: "Jesse Saint" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Return? No, it always goes to the left tank. It is only plumbed in as a purge valve for fuel servos that allow you to pump cold fuel through the system and get the hot fuel out to eliminate the hot start problems. Do not archive. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Parlow Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 3:58 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Return? Jesse, Does your fuel return have a separate selector? We plan to use the Andair duplex valve (p/n FS 20-20-D2) using -6 lines for both supply and return. We also built a "shelf" off the floor of the tunnel to mount the filter/pump/sensor to. This allowed us to put 2-3" of insulation directly on the tunnel floor under the pump/sensor. Also, we wrapped the brake lines with nylon spiral wrap in the tunnel. After the insulation was packed into the tunnel for a trial fit we found the brake and fuel lines could chafe on the shop heads of the rivets directly below them in the tunnel. Here's a few pictures of the lines, valve, pass-thrus, parking brake, and the center console. ERic-- 40014, N104EP ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Jesse Saint" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Return? This is how we did it in the tunnel (the line on the right above the brake line is the return line). It can then go out to that tank or can "T" into that line and you will want to pull from the other tank when purging the hot fuel (if you are doing it that way). Has anybody else lined up the fuel system to allow for straight lines connecting the pump, filter and flowscan? Am I missing the reason they are not lined up to start with? Hope this helps. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 04:44:15 PM PST US From: "John Gonzalez" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator movement Dave, Did the bag that the drill bushing came in have several thicknesses of washers, some stainless, some steel? It should have. Remember to check your counterbalance arms trueness to the rest of the HS once everything is tightened down. save our emails if further problems are encountered. Glad it is working out for you. John G. 409 Do Not Archive >From: "Dave Leikam" >To: >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator movement >Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 17:07:52 -0600 > > >I studied my binding elevators and found the problem. It was two fold, >although I don't think the first part caused binding. > >I had posted that the right top elevator horn bearing hole was slightly >off. >I simply elongated the hole less than .5 mm and the bolt slides right >through. I don't believe once the washers and bolt are in place and secure >that this will cause any problem. > >Second, you must insert several washers between the center bearing and the >elevator horns. The plans stress that you must "fill the gap completely or >the rod end bearings can bind." When I insert washers to take up the >space, >on the right side they cause too much pressure and cause the bind. If I >remove one there is a slight gap and after tightening, it binds as well. I >need a washer half the thickness of AN960-416L. Seems odd that such a >small >width would cause the binding, but it does. I know this because if I >loosen >the bolt through the center bearing, the elevator is smooth as silk. If I >apply side pressure to the elevator, the binding can be felt. > >With all hardware installed, everything lines up dead nuts. I just need to >fill that gap without adding lateral pressure. The same gap on the left >side of the bearing accepts two washers with no gap and no excess pressure >and no binding. > >So where can I find a washer .016" thick? Or is it .008"? AN960-416LL? >Could I use a stainless one from Ace Hardware if I can find one that will >fit? Or should I just sand one of mine down? > >Dave Leikam >40496 > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Leikam" >To: >Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 12:06 AM >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator movement > > >> >>Thanks for the ideas guys. I have not had a chance to really study the >>misaligned horn hole problem. (that sounded off) I plan to look at the >>problem in depth this week and make a decision on what the best and safest >>action to take will be. I think I know the cause, too much pressure on >>the drill caused the horn to flex up slightly. Let the bit do the work >>guys and gals! >> >>I will have to study the affect on the bottom hole as well. I think I can >>get things straightened out however because the misalignment is very >>small. >> >>The hole is a hair lower than it should be. I think less than 1 mm. If I >>were to elongate the hole up to meet the bearing hole, the only way for >>the horn to shift would be a hair up. Being that the horn is clamped to >>the bearing between washers, and the assembly wants to stay in the aligned >>position, I wonder if the operation would be safe. >>I will probably call Vans for their opinion. I'll post my findings and >>fix. >> >>Lincoln logs, legos and tinker toys were so easy! >> >>Dave >> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "John Gonzalez" >> >>To: >>Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:36 AM >>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Elevator movement >> >> >>> >>>Dave and Jesse, >>> >>>Another option not mentioned and this is what i did was to get everything >>>alinged, trailing edges and counterweight arms to the ends of the HS, use >>>the hole which has the most meat around it as the keeper and then >>>fabricate a plate for the other horn which can be riveted with six 4-4 >>>rivets. The steel plate should be of equal thickness and same type of >>>steel as the original horn and be long enough to overlap atleast 2 1/2 of >>>the lightening holes in the elev horn. This plate can also have >>>lightening holes. >>> >>>So the idea is to only slightly enlarge the bad hole. Lock everything >>>into alignment, put your plate in with the hole already drilled in it, >>>index everything and lock it down, then drill your rivet holes for >>>fastening the plate to the horn. Everything should be indexed and locked >>>DOWN. The gap between both horn needs to be indexed again with a block of >>>some type of material, perfectly perpendicular hole in all dimensions. >>>The horn should not flex when you clamp this block in place. >>> >>>This will yeild you a perfectly trimmed out trailing edge on both sides >>>and the counterbalance arms to the HS. >>> >>>>From a safety standpoint, if for some damm reason all six rivets >>>>seperated, >>>then the slightly enlarged hole in the original elevator is still there >>>and will keep th plane flying. DO disaster!!!! >>> >>>JOhn G. >>> >>>409 thinking about those diving mask games. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>From: "Jesse Saint" >>>>To: >>>>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Elevator movement >>>>Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 08:55:00 -0500 >>>> >>>>Dave, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>My first question is, if you get the top hole fixed, what does that do >>>>to >>>>your bottom hole? One option is to get another horn and do it again. >>>>The >>>>next option is to make the hole bigger, have a plate welded in there to >>>>make >>>>the new hole. Another option is to have a washer welded in there after >>>>making the hole a little bigger to fit. Another option is to have >>>>someone >>>>weld the hole closed, then redrill the hole (it has to be an expert >>>>welder). >>>>Another option is the just talk to Van's and see what they say. Another >>>>option is to make a new elevator, but I don't recommend this or the >>>>first >>>>one. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>There will be a lot of suggestions from others, but these are the ones I >>>>could come up with quickly (I have seen this problem before more than >>>>once, >>>>and we had the hole welded closed and redrilled. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Do not archive. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Jesse Saint >>>> >>>>Saint Aviation, Inc. >>>> >>>>jesse@saintaviation.com >>>> >>>>www.saintaviation.com >>>> >>>>Cell: 352-427-0285 >>>> >>>>Fax: 815-377-3694 >>>> >>>> _____ >>>> >>>>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >>>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam >>>>Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 11:50 PM >>>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com >>>>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator movement >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>I unbolted the center bearing at the top of the elevator horns and sure >>>>enough, the hole on the top of the right horn is a touch lower than it >>>>needs >>>>to be. Just enough to cause the horn to flex up less than 1 mm with the >>>>bolt in. This is causing the bind. Now what to do? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>I followed the plans and put the drill bushing in my DeWalt 12 volt and >>>>put >>>>a file to it until it fit into the bearing. No problem with that. The >>>>bottom holes of the horn came out fine as well using the wood block. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Dave Leikam >>>> >>>>40496 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>>>From: Jesse Saint >>>> >>>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com >>>> >>>>Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 6:41 AM >>>> >>>>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Elevator movement >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>That sounds to me like the holes in the horns that bolt together with >>>>the >>>>AN4-13A (or whatever it is) night not be quite lined up. I would pull >>>>that >>>>bolt out and see if that makes the difference. If you are connected to >>>>the >>>>pushrod, pull that off as well and find out, adding one thing at a time, >>>>where the problem is. I know it is a pain to get those washers in on >>>>the >>>>AN4 bolt, but removing a number of things and then adding them one at a >>>>time >>>>to see what makes the difference would be my suggestion. If it is not >>>>that >>>>the holes are misaligned, then it could be that you have too many/few >>>>washers around that bearing and it is getting a little distorted when >>>>tightened and putting drag on the system. It is not hard at all to get >>>>that >>>>hold a little off center, so that is where I would recommend looking. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>BTW, did anybody else have problems with the drill bushing not fitting >>>>in >>>>the bearing. With a lathe that problem is easily fixed, but we ended up >>>>having to have a bushing machined from scratch to do that drilling. >>>>Also, >>>>on drilling the horns for the pushrod, use a block of aluminum instead >>>>of a >>>>block of wood as Van's suggests, and make sure that when you measure to >>>>drill the first horn that it is not hanging lower than the other, >>>>because >>>>that might put you too close to the edge of the second. Anybody having >>>>the >>>>horns quite a bit out of alignment? I have seen some that are over >>>>inch >>>>out of alignment and others that are perfectly lined up. The plans say >>>>that >>>>they might not be quite right, but that is a lot of variation. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Hope this helps. I was working on that exact thing this week, so it is >>>>pretty fresh. Let me know how it comes out. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Jesse Saint >>>> >>>>Saint Aviation, Inc. >>>> >>>>jesse@saintaviation.com >>>> >>>>www.saintaviation.com >>>> >>>>Cell: 352-427-0285 >>>> >>>>Fax: 815-377-3694 >>>> >>>> >>>> _____ >>>> >>>> >>>>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >>>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam >>>>Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:44 AM >>>>To: matronics >>>>Subject: RV10-List: Elevator movement >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Tonight I installed my elevators and control tube. After install, the >>>>freedom of movement seemed a bit tight. The elevators do not sag >>>>freely. >>>>They will stay in any position I put them. Not binding, but just a bit >>>>tight. Everything lines up perfectly. Before I installed the center >>>>bolt >>>>under the VS, they each sagged more freely. They have very smooth >>>>movement >>>>just the same. Anyone have this experience? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Dave Leikam >>>> >>>>40496 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>>>http://forums.matronics.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com >>>>/Navigator?RV10-List >>>>href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 04:44:52 PM PST US From: JmsFrnch@aol.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Wow! Tim Add me in to your extender list Jimmy French 150 Prestwick Drive Davenport FL 33897 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 05:10:57 PM PST US From: "Dave Leikam" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator movement I only found two thicknesses and as I said, there is no combination I can make which fits perfectly. I need a washer half the thickness of the thinnest provided. Otherwise, everything is true and smooth. Can I sand a washer down to the thickness I need? Dave Leikam ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Gonzalez" Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 6:43 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator movement > > Dave, > > Did the bag that the drill bushing came in have several thicknesses of > washers, some stainless, some steel? It should have. > > Remember to check your counterbalance arms trueness to the rest of the HS > once everything is tightened down. save our emails if further problems are > encountered. Glad it is working out for you. > > John G. 409 > > Do Not Archive > > >>From: "Dave Leikam" >>To: >>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator movement >>Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 17:07:52 -0600 >> >> >>I studied my binding elevators and found the problem. It was two fold, >>although I don't think the first part caused binding. >> >>I had posted that the right top elevator horn bearing hole was slightly >>off. >>I simply elongated the hole less than .5 mm and the bolt slides right >>through. I don't believe once the washers and bolt are in place and >>secure >>that this will cause any problem. >> >>Second, you must insert several washers between the center bearing and the >>elevator horns. The plans stress that you must "fill the gap completely >>or >>the rod end bearings can bind." When I insert washers to take up the >>space, >>on the right side they cause too much pressure and cause the bind. If I >>remove one there is a slight gap and after tightening, it binds as well. >>I >>need a washer half the thickness of AN960-416L. Seems odd that such a >>small >>width would cause the binding, but it does. I know this because if I >>loosen >>the bolt through the center bearing, the elevator is smooth as silk. If I >>apply side pressure to the elevator, the binding can be felt. >> >>With all hardware installed, everything lines up dead nuts. I just need >>to >>fill that gap without adding lateral pressure. The same gap on the left >>side of the bearing accepts two washers with no gap and no excess pressure >>and no binding. >> >>So where can I find a washer .016" thick? Or is it .008"? AN960-416LL? >>Could I use a stainless one from Ace Hardware if I can find one that will >>fit? Or should I just sand one of mine down? >> >>Dave Leikam >>40496 >> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Leikam" >>To: >>Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 12:06 AM >>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator movement >> >> >>> >>>Thanks for the ideas guys. I have not had a chance to really study the >>>misaligned horn hole problem. (that sounded off) I plan to look at the >>>problem in depth this week and make a decision on what the best and >>>safest action to take will be. I think I know the cause, too much >>>pressure on the drill caused the horn to flex up slightly. Let the bit >>>do the work guys and gals! >>> >>>I will have to study the affect on the bottom hole as well. I think I >>>can get things straightened out however because the misalignment is very >>>small. >>> >>>The hole is a hair lower than it should be. I think less than 1 mm. If >>>I were to elongate the hole up to meet the bearing hole, the only way for >>>the horn to shift would be a hair up. Being that the horn is clamped to >>>the bearing between washers, and the assembly wants to stay in the >>>aligned position, I wonder if the operation would be safe. >>>I will probably call Vans for their opinion. I'll post my findings and >>>fix. >>> >>>Lincoln logs, legos and tinker toys were so easy! >>> >>>Dave >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- From: "John Gonzalez" >>> >>>To: >>>Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:36 AM >>>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Elevator movement >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Dave and Jesse, >>>> >>>>Another option not mentioned and this is what i did was to get >>>>everything alinged, trailing edges and counterweight arms to the ends of >>>>the HS, use the hole which has the most meat around it as the keeper and >>>>then fabricate a plate for the other horn which can be riveted with six >>>>4-4 rivets. The steel plate should be of equal thickness and same type >>>>of steel as the original horn and be long enough to overlap atleast 2 >>>>1/2 of the lightening holes in the elev horn. This plate can also have >>>>lightening holes. >>>> >>>>So the idea is to only slightly enlarge the bad hole. Lock everything >>>>into alignment, put your plate in with the hole already drilled in it, >>>>index everything and lock it down, then drill your rivet holes for >>>>fastening the plate to the horn. Everything should be indexed and >>>>locked DOWN. The gap between both horn needs to be indexed again with a >>>>block of some type of material, perfectly perpendicular hole in all >>>>dimensions. The horn should not flex when you clamp this block in place. >>>> >>>>This will yeild you a perfectly trimmed out trailing edge on both sides >>>>and the counterbalance arms to the HS. >>>> >>>>>From a safety standpoint, if for some damm reason all six rivets >>>>>seperated, >>>>then the slightly enlarged hole in the original elevator is still there >>>>and will keep th plane flying. DO disaster!!!! >>>> >>>>JOhn G. >>>> >>>>409 thinking about those diving mask games. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>From: "Jesse Saint" >>>>>To: >>>>>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Elevator movement >>>>>Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 08:55:00 -0500 >>>>> >>>>>Dave, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>My first question is, if you get the top hole fixed, what does that do >>>>>to >>>>>your bottom hole? One option is to get another horn and do it again. >>>>>The >>>>>next option is to make the hole bigger, have a plate welded in there to >>>>>make >>>>>the new hole. Another option is to have a washer welded in there after >>>>>making the hole a little bigger to fit. Another option is to have >>>>>someone >>>>>weld the hole closed, then redrill the hole (it has to be an expert >>>>>welder). >>>>>Another option is the just talk to Van's and see what they say. >>>>>Another >>>>>option is to make a new elevator, but I don't recommend this or the >>>>>first >>>>>one. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>There will be a lot of suggestions from others, but these are the ones >>>>>I >>>>>could come up with quickly (I have seen this problem before more than >>>>>once, >>>>>and we had the hole welded closed and redrilled. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Do not archive. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Jesse Saint >>>>> >>>>>Saint Aviation, Inc. >>>>> >>>>>jesse@saintaviation.com >>>>> >>>>>www.saintaviation.com >>>>> >>>>>Cell: 352-427-0285 >>>>> >>>>>Fax: 815-377-3694 >>>>> >>>>> _____ >>>>> >>>>>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >>>>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam >>>>>Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 11:50 PM >>>>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com >>>>>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator movement >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>I unbolted the center bearing at the top of the elevator horns and sure >>>>>enough, the hole on the top of the right horn is a touch lower than it >>>>>needs >>>>>to be. Just enough to cause the horn to flex up less than 1 mm with >>>>>the >>>>>bolt in. This is causing the bind. Now what to do? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>I followed the plans and put the drill bushing in my DeWalt 12 volt and >>>>>put >>>>>a file to it until it fit into the bearing. No problem with that. The >>>>>bottom holes of the horn came out fine as well using the wood block. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Dave Leikam >>>>> >>>>>40496 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>> >>>>>From: Jesse Saint >>>>> >>>>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com >>>>> >>>>>Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 6:41 AM >>>>> >>>>>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Elevator movement >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>That sounds to me like the holes in the horns that bolt together with >>>>>the >>>>>AN4-13A (or whatever it is) night not be quite lined up. I would pull >>>>>that >>>>>bolt out and see if that makes the difference. If you are connected to >>>>>the >>>>>pushrod, pull that off as well and find out, adding one thing at a >>>>>time, >>>>>where the problem is. I know it is a pain to get those washers in on >>>>>the >>>>>AN4 bolt, but removing a number of things and then adding them one at a >>>>>time >>>>>to see what makes the difference would be my suggestion. If it is not >>>>>that >>>>>the holes are misaligned, then it could be that you have too many/few >>>>>washers around that bearing and it is getting a little distorted when >>>>>tightened and putting drag on the system. It is not hard at all to get >>>>>that >>>>>hold a little off center, so that is where I would recommend looking. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>BTW, did anybody else have problems with the drill bushing not fitting >>>>>in >>>>>the bearing. With a lathe that problem is easily fixed, but we ended >>>>>up >>>>>having to have a bushing machined from scratch to do that drilling. >>>>>Also, >>>>>on drilling the horns for the pushrod, use a block of aluminum instead >>>>>of a >>>>>block of wood as Van's suggests, and make sure that when you measure to >>>>>drill the first horn that it is not hanging lower than the other, >>>>>because >>>>>that might put you too close to the edge of the second. Anybody having >>>>>the >>>>>horns quite a bit out of alignment? I have seen some that are over >>>>>inch >>>>>out of alignment and others that are perfectly lined up. The plans say >>>>>that >>>>>they might not be quite right, but that is a lot of variation. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Hope this helps. I was working on that exact thing this week, so it is >>>>>pretty fresh. Let me know how it comes out. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Jesse Saint >>>>> >>>>>Saint Aviation, Inc. >>>>> >>>>>jesse@saintaviation.com >>>>> >>>>>www.saintaviation.com >>>>> >>>>>Cell: 352-427-0285 >>>>> >>>>>Fax: 815-377-3694 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _____ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >>>>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam >>>>>Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:44 AM >>>>>To: matronics >>>>>Subject: RV10-List: Elevator movement >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Tonight I installed my elevators and control tube. After install, the >>>>>freedom of movement seemed a bit tight. The elevators do not sag >>>>>freely. >>>>>They will stay in any position I put them. Not binding, but just a bit >>>>>tight. Everything lines up perfectly. Before I installed the center >>>>>bolt >>>>>under the VS, they each sagged more freely. They have very smooth >>>>>movement >>>>>just the same. Anyone have this experience? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Dave Leikam >>>>> >>>>>40496 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>>>>http://forums.matronics.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com >>>>>/Navigator?RV10-List >>>>>href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:57 PM PST US From: "Jay Rowe" Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Axle Extension Group Order - Reply by Wednesday p.m. Of course I will need a pair. Jay Rowe #40301. 151 North Shore Lane, Winthrop, ME 04351 jfrjr@adelphia.net. Thanks Tim--just tell me where to send the check. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 7:41 PM Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Axle Extension Group Order - Reply by Wednesday p.m. > > Good news, everyone... > > Today I installed the axle extensions that my friend made from my > drawing and they worked out perfectly. I have some photos from > the install posted here: > > http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20070118/index.html#Installation_of_new_extensions > > Now that I know they work, I'm going to do something stupid and > since some people found high machining costs, I'm going to coordinate > a group order for extensions that look like these. I had at least > 2 quotes come back with costs significantly lower than what other people > were saying. My earlier drawing might actually be more expensive to > make than the final product drawing too. I'll have to re-quote it to > see if pricing will be any lower. > > My present quote that I'd go on was: $17.75ea @ quantity 40 and > $24.50ea @ quantity 20. (20 pairs and 10 pairs respectively) > > Now, what I'm going to do it this: If you want these extensions > for your plane, I'm only planning to have one run made up, so get them > now. Let me know by Wednesday night, and Thursday a.m. I'll order > them from the machining company and get the hardware on it's > way to me. They need to get the aluminum stock, so there will be > a small delay before they start making them. > You do not need to send payment right away...Yes, I know, that's > stupid, but I'm planning to write a check for well over $1000 to > cover the production, but only if the buyers are willing to commit > to paying for them. > > What you'll get: > 1 PAIR of Axle entensions, all drilled and tapped, 3-3/8" long so > they don't require the large flat washer. They should directly > replace the original part. You'll also get (3) AN5-6A bolts, > so you have one as a spare, for bolting them to the axle nut. > You'll also get (3) MS24693C298 screws for the outer ends, that > will be 1/4" longer than original so they don't back out and fall > off as easily (mine almost came out...use loctite!) And, I'm > going to send you (3) MS24665-292 cotter pins, and (3) > MS24665-362 cotter pins, so you have all of the hardware required > to attach them. > > Your job: Drill your existing holes on the axle nuts out to 5/16" > and deburr (I deburred mine today because I miss all the deburring > so much ;) ) Then assemble the AN5 bolt/washer to the extension and > torque. Then, use a #40 drill through the guide hole and drill > out the hole and the bolt to #40. Pin them together with the small > cotter pins, install the axle nuts and pin with the large pins. > Then secure the fairing with the 1/4" stainless machine screw. > > Since this is something I'm not doing for profit, I'm going to > make it easy on myself. They'll all be picked up at the same > time, and I'll throw them all into USPS Priority mail at the > same time. I'll split the costs of everything evenly, and round > any costs up to the next highest dollar. When all is said and > done, I'll tell you if the total with shipping is any higher than > my expectations...which would be between $45 and $55 per pair, > all complete to your door with the hardware. > > One exception: Since this isn't for-profit in any way, I'm going > to make it easy on myself and limit it to the US continental 48 > states only so I can use USPS Priority mail. > > Again, I'll only be doing this group order one time, so if you want > them, now's the time. After this order, if for some reason I'm > crazy enough to do it again, I'd add on extra cost for the time, and > it might be harder to get a good list of people together to keep > the price down. If for some reason we can't get 10 people for > this order, I won't bother, but my gut feeling is that we'll probably > easily make the 20 pair (quantity 40) level. I just want to do this > because after installing them I know they worked well for me, and > it'll keep you all from spending a fortune on one-offs from your > local machinist. In the spirit of "no up front money" that > we have today, you can send your payment either via paypal > or by check after you get them. I know everyone will pay up, because > we're all nice people and if you don't, I'll tell the list on you. ;) > If you pay by paypal though, add a little to cover the fees that > they charge. Tips are not required, but will be accepted if you're > just so happy after getting them that you really want to. ;) > > If the price for any reason looks like it'll be over $60, I will not > proceed without contacting everyone who got on the list first. > > Email me at my email address if you want to get on the list. > > -- > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 06:04:22 PM PST US From: linn Walters Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Return? I've read about 6-way valves and purge valves etc., but haven't had anyone tell me why the return (for any reason) can't be Td into the line somewhere between the selector and the mechanical fuel pump. It seems a far simpler solution to me. Linn do not archive ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:43 PM PST US From: Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Return? Linn: There are 2 reasons why that idea is not advisable. 1. The fuel is hot coming from the injectors, and needs to be cooled in the fuel tank prior to returning to the engine. 2. to maintain ballance, you need to return the fuel to the same tank that you took it from, so you do not over fill one tanks, and empty the other. Your idea would immediately return the hot fuel to the engine, increasing the likelyhood of vapor lock. Steve Mills RV-10 40486 Slow-build Naperville, Illinois finishing fuselage Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of linn Walters Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 8:07 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Return? I've read about 6-way valves and purge valves etc., but haven't had anyone tell me why the return (for any reason) can't be Td into the line somewhere between the selector and the mechanical fuel pump. It seems a far simpler solution to me. Linn do not archive ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:28 PM PST US From: "Jesse Saint" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Return? I can't imagine why you couldn't do it that way, but if you are trying to purge hot fuel and replace it with cold fuel, it is better to put the hot fuel on the tank side of the selector so you can get cold fuel out of the other tank from the side you are putting the hot fuel in. I think Allen Barrett said that just mixing the hot fuel with the cold fuel aft of the firewall would be good enough, but I like the idea of sending it to the tank. Does this make sense? Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 9:07 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Return? I've read about 6-way valves and purge valves etc., but haven't had anyone tell me why the return (for any reason) can't be Td into the line somewhere between the selector and the mechanical fuel pump. It seems a far simpler solution to me. Linn do not archive -- 5:02 PM ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:02 PM PST US From: Eric Panning Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Return? I've put a return line into the one tank I have built so far. It is easy to do and I just ordered extra fittings. In case of ECi engine or diesel, etc. As to why not to T it back to the incoming line, this could result in vapor lock. The return line is pressurized relative to the line from the tank and you could end up with a fairly high recirc rate (hotter every loop). Also, I understand that bubbles in the return fuel line are possible even in normal systems. You also have the possibility of pressure instabilites if the line from the tank is small or restricted. Pump adds X+ pressure to inlet pressure and therefore total pressure could be higher than expected at fuel injectors, etc. Final fuel regulator should take care of this but it is the recipe for a feedback loop. If you run a tank dry, you may have enough air in the loop that the pump cannot prime. another issue is it might build air pressure, preventing draw from a tank, or vapor lock during ground soak, or ? Fuel contamination, switching tanks does not "clear the line" immediately due to local re-circ. I'm sure there are others. You can try a bench mockup and look at potential failure modes. These are good questions to ask of any fuel system. Eric 40150 --- linn Walters wrote: > > > I've read about 6-way valves and purge valves etc., > but haven't had > anyone tell me why the return (for any reason) can't > be Td into the line > somewhere between the selector and the mechanical > fuel pump. It seems a > far simpler solution to me. > Linn > do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:51 PM PST US From: "bob.kaufmann" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Return? On the Helio Courier, we would run the left tank down an hour, and then burn from the right tank until we made it run to the point of trim plus half of what we expected for the remaining flight. We did this because all of the return went into the left tank and that was one way of keeping the aircraft in some semblance of trim. We never had a problem with hot fuel operating in some of the places we flew out of, even when the conditions were less than perfect. Less than perfect would be the most positive way of describing it. We would do a lot of takeoff and landings, in "hot" environments with out a fuel problem. Bob K 91/89 to go. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 6:53 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Return? I can't imagine why you couldn't do it that way, but if you are trying to purge hot fuel and replace it with cold fuel, it is better to put the hot fuel on the tank side of the selector so you can get cold fuel out of the other tank from the side you are putting the hot fuel in. I think Allen Barrett said that just mixing the hot fuel with the cold fuel aft of the firewall would be good enough, but I like the idea of sending it to the tank. Does this make sense? Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 9:07 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Return? I've read about 6-way valves and purge valves etc., but haven't had anyone tell me why the return (for any reason) can't be Td into the line somewhere between the selector and the mechanical fuel pump. It seems a far simpler solution to me. Linn do not archive -- 5:02 PM ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:21 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Return? From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." If you are using an alternative engine that has high flow, you would eventually heat the fuel by looping it, this is why it is returned to the tank and mixed. But if you are using a Lyco, Jesse states that it is just a small amount of fuel for the return to dump the hot fuel. Hope this helps Dan -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 9:07 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Return? I've read about 6-way valves and purge valves etc., but haven't had anyone tell me why the return (for any reason) can't be Td into the line somewhere between the selector and the mechanical fuel pump. It seems a far simpler solution to me. Linn do not archive ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:48 PM PST US From: "John Gonzalez" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator movement You can try but the obvious hard part is getting a hold on it while sanding and making sure the thickness is the same throughout. DO NOt Archive >From: "Dave Leikam" >To: >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator movement >Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:10:45 -0600 > > >I only found two thicknesses and as I said, there is no combination I can >make which fits perfectly. I need a washer half the thickness of the >thinnest provided. Otherwise, everything is true and smooth. Can I sand a >washer down to the thickness I need? > >Dave Leikam > >----- Original Message ----- From: "John Gonzalez" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 6:43 PM >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator movement > > >> >>Dave, >> >>Did the bag that the drill bushing came in have several thicknesses of >>washers, some stainless, some steel? It should have. >> >>Remember to check your counterbalance arms trueness to the rest of the HS >>once everything is tightened down. save our emails if further problems are >>encountered. Glad it is working out for you. >> >>John G. 409 >> >>Do Not Archive >> >> >> >> >>>From: "Dave Leikam" >>>To: >>>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator movement >>>Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 17:07:52 -0600 >>> >>> >>>I studied my binding elevators and found the problem. It was two fold, >>>although I don't think the first part caused binding. >>> >>>I had posted that the right top elevator horn bearing hole was slightly >>>off. >>>I simply elongated the hole less than .5 mm and the bolt slides right >>>through. I don't believe once the washers and bolt are in place and >>>secure >>>that this will cause any problem. >>> >>>Second, you must insert several washers between the center bearing and >>>the >>>elevator horns. The plans stress that you must "fill the gap completely >>>or >>>the rod end bearings can bind." When I insert washers to take up the >>>space, >>>on the right side they cause too much pressure and cause the bind. If I >>>remove one there is a slight gap and after tightening, it binds as well. >>>I >>>need a washer half the thickness of AN960-416L. Seems odd that such a >>>small >>>width would cause the binding, but it does. I know this because if I >>>loosen >>>the bolt through the center bearing, the elevator is smooth as silk. If >>>I >>>apply side pressure to the elevator, the binding can be felt. >>> >>>With all hardware installed, everything lines up dead nuts. I just need >>>to >>>fill that gap without adding lateral pressure. The same gap on the left >>>side of the bearing accepts two washers with no gap and no excess >>>pressure >>>and no binding. >>> >>>So where can I find a washer .016" thick? Or is it .008"? AN960-416LL? >>>Could I use a stainless one from Ace Hardware if I can find one that will >>>fit? Or should I just sand one of mine down? >>> >>>Dave Leikam >>>40496 >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Leikam" >>>To: >>>Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 12:06 AM >>>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator movement >>> >>> >>>> >>>>Thanks for the ideas guys. I have not had a chance to really study the >>>>misaligned horn hole problem. (that sounded off) I plan to look at the >>>>problem in depth this week and make a decision on what the best and >>>>safest action to take will be. I think I know the cause, too much >>>>pressure on the drill caused the horn to flex up slightly. Let the bit >>>>do the work guys and gals! >>>> >>>>I will have to study the affect on the bottom hole as well. I think I >>>>can get things straightened out however because the misalignment is very >>>>small. >>>> >>>>The hole is a hair lower than it should be. I think less than 1 mm. If >>>>I were to elongate the hole up to meet the bearing hole, the only way >>>>for the horn to shift would be a hair up. Being that the horn is >>>>clamped to the bearing between washers, and the assembly wants to stay >>>>in the aligned position, I wonder if the operation would be safe. >>>>I will probably call Vans for their opinion. I'll post my findings and >>>>fix. >>>> >>>>Lincoln logs, legos and tinker toys were so easy! >>>> >>>>Dave >>>> >>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "John Gonzalez" >>>> >>>>To: >>>>Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:36 AM >>>>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Elevator movement >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Dave and Jesse, >>>>> >>>>>Another option not mentioned and this is what i did was to get >>>>>everything alinged, trailing edges and counterweight arms to the ends >>>>>of the HS, use the hole which has the most meat around it as the keeper >>>>>and then fabricate a plate for the other horn which can be riveted with >>>>>six 4-4 rivets. The steel plate should be of equal thickness and same >>>>>type of steel as the original horn and be long enough to overlap >>>>>atleast 2 1/2 of the lightening holes in the elev horn. This plate can >>>>>also have lightening holes. >>>>> >>>>>So the idea is to only slightly enlarge the bad hole. Lock everything >>>>>into alignment, put your plate in with the hole already drilled in it, >>>>>index everything and lock it down, then drill your rivet holes for >>>>>fastening the plate to the horn. Everything should be indexed and >>>>>locked DOWN. The gap between both horn needs to be indexed again with a >>>>>block of some type of material, perfectly perpendicular hole in all >>>>>dimensions. The horn should not flex when you clamp this block in >>>>>place. >>>>> >>>>>This will yeild you a perfectly trimmed out trailing edge on both sides >>>>>and the counterbalance arms to the HS. >>>>> >>>>>>From a safety standpoint, if for some damm reason all six rivets >>>>>>seperated, >>>>>then the slightly enlarged hole in the original elevator is still there >>>>>and will keep th plane flying. DO disaster!!!! >>>>> >>>>>JOhn G. >>>>> >>>>>409 thinking about those diving mask games. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>From: "Jesse Saint" >>>>>>To: >>>>>>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Elevator movement >>>>>>Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 08:55:00 -0500 >>>>>> >>>>>>Dave, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>My first question is, if you get the top hole fixed, what does that do >>>>>>to >>>>>>your bottom hole? One option is to get another horn and do it again. >>>>>>The >>>>>>next option is to make the hole bigger, have a plate welded in there >>>>>>to make >>>>>>the new hole. Another option is to have a washer welded in there >>>>>>after >>>>>>making the hole a little bigger to fit. Another option is to have >>>>>>someone >>>>>>weld the hole closed, then redrill the hole (it has to be an expert >>>>>>welder). >>>>>>Another option is the just talk to Van's and see what they say. >>>>>>Another >>>>>>option is to make a new elevator, but I don't recommend this or the >>>>>>first >>>>>>one. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>There will be a lot of suggestions from others, but these are the ones >>>>>>I >>>>>>could come up with quickly (I have seen this problem before more than >>>>>>once, >>>>>>and we had the hole welded closed and redrilled. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Do not archive. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Jesse Saint >>>>>> >>>>>>Saint Aviation, Inc. >>>>>> >>>>>>jesse@saintaviation.com >>>>>> >>>>>>www.saintaviation.com >>>>>> >>>>>>Cell: 352-427-0285 >>>>>> >>>>>>Fax: 815-377-3694 >>>>>> >>>>>> _____ >>>>>> >>>>>>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >>>>>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam >>>>>>Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 11:50 PM >>>>>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com >>>>>>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator movement >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>I unbolted the center bearing at the top of the elevator horns and >>>>>>sure >>>>>>enough, the hole on the top of the right horn is a touch lower than it >>>>>>needs >>>>>>to be. Just enough to cause the horn to flex up less than 1 mm with >>>>>>the >>>>>>bolt in. This is causing the bind. Now what to do? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>I followed the plans and put the drill bushing in my DeWalt 12 volt >>>>>>and put >>>>>>a file to it until it fit into the bearing. No problem with that. >>>>>>The >>>>>>bottom holes of the horn came out fine as well using the wood block. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Dave Leikam >>>>>> >>>>>>40496 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> >>>>>>From: Jesse Saint >>>>>> >>>>>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com >>>>>> >>>>>>Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 6:41 AM >>>>>> >>>>>>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Elevator movement >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>That sounds to me like the holes in the horns that bolt together with >>>>>>the >>>>>>AN4-13A (or whatever it is) night not be quite lined up. I would pull >>>>>>that >>>>>>bolt out and see if that makes the difference. If you are connected >>>>>>to the >>>>>>pushrod, pull that off as well and find out, adding one thing at a >>>>>>time, >>>>>>where the problem is. I know it is a pain to get those washers in on >>>>>>the >>>>>>AN4 bolt, but removing a number of things and then adding them one at >>>>>>a time >>>>>>to see what makes the difference would be my suggestion. If it is not >>>>>>that >>>>>>the holes are misaligned, then it could be that you have too many/few >>>>>>washers around that bearing and it is getting a little distorted when >>>>>>tightened and putting drag on the system. It is not hard at all to >>>>>>get that >>>>>>hold a little off center, so that is where I would recommend looking. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>BTW, did anybody else have problems with the drill bushing not fitting >>>>>>in >>>>>>the bearing. With a lathe that problem is easily fixed, but we ended >>>>>>up >>>>>>having to have a bushing machined from scratch to do that drilling. >>>>>>Also, >>>>>>on drilling the horns for the pushrod, use a block of aluminum instead >>>>>>of a >>>>>>block of wood as Van's suggests, and make sure that when you measure >>>>>>to >>>>>>drill the first horn that it is not hanging lower than the other, >>>>>>because >>>>>>that might put you too close to the edge of the second. Anybody >>>>>>having the >>>>>>horns quite a bit out of alignment? I have seen some that are over >>>>>>inch >>>>>>out of alignment and others that are perfectly lined up. The plans >>>>>>say that >>>>>>they might not be quite right, but that is a lot of variation. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Hope this helps. I was working on that exact thing this week, so it >>>>>>is >>>>>>pretty fresh. Let me know how it comes out. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Jesse Saint >>>>>> >>>>>>Saint Aviation, Inc. >>>>>> >>>>>>jesse@saintaviation.com >>>>>> >>>>>>www.saintaviation.com >>>>>> >>>>>>Cell: 352-427-0285 >>>>>> >>>>>>Fax: 815-377-3694 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _____ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >>>>>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam >>>>>>Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:44 AM >>>>>>To: matronics >>>>>>Subject: RV10-List: Elevator movement >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Tonight I installed my elevators and control tube. After install, the >>>>>>freedom of movement seemed a bit tight. The elevators do not sag >>>>>>freely. >>>>>>They will stay in any position I put them. Not binding, but just a >>>>>>bit >>>>>>tight. Everything lines up perfectly. Before I installed the center >>>>>>bolt >>>>>>under the VS, they each sagged more freely. They have very smooth >>>>>>movement >>>>>>just the same. Anyone have this experience? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Dave Leikam >>>>>> >>>>>>40496 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>>>>>http://forums.matronics.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com >>>>>>/Navigator?RV10-List >>>>>>href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:17 PM PST US From: "Ronald L Owen" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Wow! Tim Put Me On your List. Also may be able to help with the screws at no cost. Just for your great help. Let me know the size. Ron Owen flywithme@hughes.net 9700 Payne Rd. Sebring Fl. 33870 863-471-9817 863-381-0759 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 1:46 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Wow! > > No problem Jeff. I've had a bunch of offers of help, but what gets > me is that if I shipped them somewhere for reshipping, that just > increases the cost...so I'm trying to keep it low. You're probably > right on the pricing...the old quote for 40 was $17.75, so it's > likely going to be lower now by a ways. I'm up to 90 people, for > 180 units. At $15 that's $2700 to spend on the machining. ;) > It's far more quantity than I figured it would be, but it's > do-able. As long as people are helping with the international > stuff, that makes it easier. The reason I went USPS is because > you get the box for free and it's a flat-rate charge that should > be identical. I doubt that the manufacturer will want to deal > with shipping, but for this one-shot thing, I don't mind. > We'll just see how good it all gets. I know some people are > wanting these a.s.a.p, so I'm going to hold to a Thursday > 8am CST deadline and then just have some made up. At that point > at least I'll know how much hardware to order. Glad I didn't > do that this a.m. or I'd be WAAAY short. > > You know, this would make a heck of a lot more sense if I was > still building and needed a pair. Call me a sucker, but > you guys have just grown on me over the past 3 years. ;) > > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > do not archive > > > Jeff Carpenter wrote: >> >> Hi Tim, >> >> My time spent estimating tells me that these are costing $11.00 each >> after the initial set up costs... so that an order of 150 pieces should >> wind up around 14.50 each... or $29.00 per pair... but I'd imagine that >> you're really going to be looking at ordering between 250 and 300 pieces >> by the time the dust settles on this. For example,I think I'll be >> ordering two pair, as Nick Gautier is building around the corner from me >> and I just need to confirm that he wants them as well. >> >> I am concerned that you'll be spending a big chunk of your time shipping >> these out as the list grows and don't think any of us want you to have to >> go through all that. Perhaps the manufacturer is set up for UPS shipping >> and for a nominal fee they can handle that for you. I'd be happy to >> forgo some of the savings from this amazing group buy to save you that >> time and effort.... or you could drop ship a batch to me and a few others >> around the country and we could split up the work of getting them all >> out. >> >> >> Jeff Carpenter >> 40304 >> >> >> On Jan 29, 2007, at 7:05 AM, Tim Olson wrote: >> >>> >>> There you have it, another great guy steps up to the >>> plate to help those over the ocean. >>> >>> What a group we have. >>> >>> 77 now. Dan, did you want them for you or are you just >>> doing the straight shaft ones on the cheap? >>> >>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying >>> do not archive >>> >>> >>> Lloyd, Daniel R. wrote: >>>> >>>> Tim for everyone in Europe and further East I will help with the >>>> packaging and sending. Just send me the list of people and I will make >>>> sure it gets out to them. I think there was one from Germany, and I do >>>> not know how many others, but I can help. >>>> Dan >>>> N289DT -----Original Message----- >>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson >>>> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 9:18 AM >>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com >>>> Subject: RV10-List: Wow! >>>> I would have never guessed...my inbox is filling up as fast as I >>>> can reply, and we're up to 72 now. I think I'm going to be a >>>> busy guy. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:06 PM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV10-List: IO 540 Performance I didn't see anything on weight, dry, with or without accessories. Is there much variation between the variants of the parallel valve engine? Pascal wrote: > I believe Tim Olsen's site has everything you ever need for information. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Dave & Brenda Emond > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 30, 2007 9:43 AM > *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: IO 540 Performance > > I am looking for a copy of the performance specs for a Lycoming IO > 540 - D4A5, or similar 260hp Lyco. > > Power curves etc! > > Dave Emond > 40159 > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > * > ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:16 PM PST US From: "RV_10" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Wow! Tim, Would you please also put us on your list? Thank you, John Cleary -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ronald L Owen Sent: Wednesday, 31 January 2007 3:27 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Wow! Tim Put Me On your List. Also may be able to help with the screws at no cost. Just for your great help. Let me know the size. Ron Owen flywithme@hughes.net 9700 Payne Rd. Sebring Fl. 33870 863-471-9817 863-381-0759 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 1:46 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Wow! > > No problem Jeff. I've had a bunch of offers of help, but what gets > me is that if I shipped them somewhere for reshipping, that just > increases the cost...so I'm trying to keep it low. You're probably > right on the pricing...the old quote for 40 was $17.75, so it's > likely going to be lower now by a ways. I'm up to 90 people, for > 180 units. At $15 that's $2700 to spend on the machining. ;) > It's far more quantity than I figured it would be, but it's > do-able. As long as people are helping with the international > stuff, that makes it easier. The reason I went USPS is because > you get the box for free and it's a flat-rate charge that should > be identical. I doubt that the manufacturer will want to deal > with shipping, but for this one-shot thing, I don't mind. > We'll just see how good it all gets. I know some people are > wanting these a.s.a.p, so I'm going to hold to a Thursday > 8am CST deadline and then just have some made up. At that point > at least I'll know how much hardware to order. Glad I didn't > do that this a.m. or I'd be WAAAY short. > > You know, this would make a heck of a lot more sense if I was > still building and needed a pair. Call me a sucker, but > you guys have just grown on me over the past 3 years. ;) > > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > do not archive > > > Jeff Carpenter wrote: >> >> Hi Tim, >> >> My time spent estimating tells me that these are costing $11.00 each >> after the initial set up costs... so that an order of 150 pieces should >> wind up around 14.50 each... or $29.00 per pair... but I'd imagine that >> you're really going to be looking at ordering between 250 and 300 pieces >> by the time the dust settles on this. For example,I think I'll be >> ordering two pair, as Nick Gautier is building around the corner from me >> and I just need to confirm that he wants them as well. >> >> I am concerned that you'll be spending a big chunk of your time shipping >> these out as the list grows and don't think any of us want you to have to >> go through all that. Perhaps the manufacturer is set up for UPS shipping >> and for a nominal fee they can handle that for you. I'd be happy to >> forgo some of the savings from this amazing group buy to save you that >> time and effort.... or you could drop ship a batch to me and a few others >> around the country and we could split up the work of getting them all >> out. >> >> >> Jeff Carpenter >> 40304 >> >> >> On Jan 29, 2007, at 7:05 AM, Tim Olson wrote: >> >>> >>> There you have it, another great guy steps up to the >>> plate to help those over the ocean. >>> >>> What a group we have. >>> >>> 77 now. Dan, did you want them for you or are you just >>> doing the straight shaft ones on the cheap? >>> >>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying >>> do not archive >>> >>> >>> Lloyd, Daniel R. wrote: >>>> >>>> Tim for everyone in Europe and further East I will help with the >>>> packaging and sending. Just send me the list of people and I will make >>>> sure it gets out to them. I think there was one from Germany, and I do >>>> not know how many others, but I can help. >>>> Dan >>>> N289DT -----Original Message----- >>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson >>>> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 9:18 AM >>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com >>>> Subject: RV10-List: Wow! >>>> I would have never guessed...my inbox is filling up as fast as I >>>> can reply, and we're up to 72 now. I think I'm going to be a >>>> busy guy. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.