Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:53 AM - Re: Introduction To List (Russell Daves)
2. 04:55 AM - Re: 600HP RV-10 (steveadams)
3. 05:23 AM - paint shop re. Southeast ()
4. 05:40 AM - Re: paint shop re. Southeast (gary)
5. 06:28 AM - Re: Introduction To List (Rhonda Bewley)
6. 06:38 AM - Re: paint shop re. Southeast (DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com)
7. 08:32 AM - Re: Re: 600HP RV-10 (jdalton77@comcast.net)
8. 08:45 AM - Re: The RV Smile - continued (Phillips, Jack)
9. 05:50 PM - Re: Introduction To List (jdalton77)
10. 06:04 PM - Re: what do you call yourself to ATC? (Marcus Cooper)
11. 07:16 PM - Re: Introduction To List (tadsargent)
12. 09:15 PM - Re: Introduction To List (DejaVu)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction To List |
Dear Jim:
You posted that:
Hello all,
My name is Jim Clark and I would like to introduce myself to your
wonderful online community. I have been lurking for ~10 weeks now
and
am finally brave enough to say hello. I'm addicted.
I, in partnership with a close colleague at work, have decided to
undertake this monumental project. I have been planning and
budgeting
for several months and am still waffling on what may seem to you
guys
as a very important fundamental decision: which kit RV-7 or RV-10.
GO WITH THE RV-10. If your partner has a family of four both of you
will be a lot happier with an RV-10 vs. and RV-7 in my opinion.
First a brief background on my goals/budget for this project.
Knowing
this info may elicit some targeted advice from you folks:
First: although I haven't finalized an airframe decision, the
following is pretty firmed up:
3 screen GRT EFIS / EM / MFD with internal WAAS & 5 Hz & probably
dual AHRS. (Want the chelton 2/3 screen but can't afford it).
Garmin GTX330 with TIS
Garmin SL30 Nav/Com
8000 audio panel
Panel mount GPS & other comm undecided.
WITH A 3 SCREEN GRT EFIS I ASSUME YOU ARE GOING DUEL HORIZON I PLUS A
GRT SPORT. INSTEAD OF BEING UNDECIDED ON THE PANEL MOUNT GPS AND OTHER
COMM GO WITH A SECOND WASS GPS IN THE GRT SPORT AND GET AN SL 40 FOR THE
SECOND COMM.
New engine, & redundancy in most areas.
SAVE $20,000.00 ON YOUR PROJECT BY GOING WITH A GOOD FIRST RUN IO-540
CORE, SEND OFF THE CASE, CRANKSHAFT, AND CAMSHAFT FOR OVERHAUL AND HAVE
A REPUTABLE SHOP ASSEMBLY THE ENGINE WITH NEW ECI CYLINDER ASSEMBLIES
AND BEARINGS. I DID THIS AND HAVE LESS THAN $25,000.00 IN ESSENTIALLY A
NEW ENGINE. BY THE WAY A PROVEN LYCOMING CRANKSHAFT THAT HAS GONE TO
TBO IN THE FIRST RUN AND OVERHAULED IS A BETTER CRANKSHAFT THAN A NEW
LYCOMING CRANKSHAFT.
Cross country from east coast to midwest and occasional CA trips.
I am finishing up my IFR rating and absolutely cannot spend more
than
150k over the next 2 years. With a strong desire for moderate IFR
capability and redundancy and nice avionics, I am finding myself
having to cut costs somewhere. My question is this: Is it crazy to
save 25k by choosing the RV-7 over the RV-10? I know it seems
strange
to pick everything but the airframe first, but those are my
priorities (IFR & avionics first).
I want quickbuild and with ~32k worth of avionics, the RV-10 is
pushing 140k with a new 260 HP. I'd like to hear your thoughts,
should I get the RV-10 and initially save costs in the avionics
area
by leaving blank panel area on the right side?
CHECK OUT WHAT A THREE SCREEN GRT EFIS PANEL MIGHT LOOK LIKE AT:
http://www.steinair.com/panels.htm Double click Russ' RV-10 panel to
see mine. My GRT Sport is in the middle.
I am single, but have
a strong desire to take more than 1 friend along on camping /
biking
trips. My partner in this project is a coworker and luckily also a
neighbor. He has a family of 4.
I understand to both get Repairman certs we will need to purchase
as
an LLC/corp is this right?
How much more gas / hr do you think the RV-10 is vs the RV-7. Are
there any other extra OPERATING expenses for the RV-10 over the
RV-7
that I am misssing.
IF YOU RUN FULL THROTTLE AT LOW ALTITUDES YOU WILL USE MORE FUEL IN THE
RV-10. HOWEVER YOU CAN THROTTLE BACK THE RV-10 AND/OR FLY AT HIGH
ALTITUDE AND BURN ABOUT 10 GALLONS PER HOUR.
Thanks in advance for any responses. I apologize for the
longwinded
introduction. I can hardly contain my excitement, but I am
cautiously
approaching this project.
Cheers,
-Jim Clark
GOOD LUCK ON YOUR DECISION.
RUSS DAVES
N710RV - FLYING RV-10
N65RV - RV-6A SOLD
Do Not Archive
Message 2
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I heard it was better to wait until after the initial test flights to do the final
riveting in case you need to make some adjustments. :?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=93886#93886
Message 3
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| Subject: | paint shop re. Southeast |
Any suggestions for a good paint shop in the Southeast? I live 1 hour south of
Atlanta. Thanks! Jim
Message 4
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| Subject: | paint shop re. Southeast |
I am working with a body shop in Covington. I brought him a few parts for
him to show me his work and for me to see how/if I can work with him. I
will let you know how it goes.
Where are you located, I would like to meet you and see your project?
Gary
40274
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
gorejr@bellsouth.net
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 8:23 AM
Subject: RV10-List: paint shop re. Southeast
Any suggestions for a good paint shop in the Southeast? I live 1 hour south
of Atlanta. Thanks! Jim
Message 5
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| Subject: | Introduction To List |
Rob wrote:
"or at least go with an overhauled motor.
You'll save at least $10-20K right there on the motor."
I think you're more likely to save around 5-7K with an engine overhauled
to Factory New Limits by a quality shop in stock configuration. I don't
see this changing in the near future because the core market is
dwindling and a clone manufacturer does not appear on the immediate
horizon.
You can get one cheaper, but we have recently seen a rash of engines on
the market that have been recently overhauled using non-serviceable
parts, chromed cylinders, etc. I.E., parts that have been rejected but
make their way to the market through less than reputable sources or say
a serviceable crank that is .010 rods and mains, which means that at the
next overhaul (or possibly a prop strike) it's almost guaranteed that
the crankshaft will need to be replaced. If that happens, plan on
$5,000 (good used crank) - $15,000 (new) tacked on to your engine repair
costs.
In fact the Feds recently prosecuted a group of people in Oklahoma City
for fraud who were selling IO-540 engines as overhauled, when they were
completely unairworthy. They got something like 25 years and the
purchasers got left with nothing. If you do go with an overhauled
engine, make sure you know exactly what you're getting and check
verifiable references.
Rhonda Barrett-Bewley
Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.
Tulsa, OK
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: paint shop re. Southeast |
The only ones I know of in the area are in TCL - Bobby Potts @ 205-333-3116.
I am going to check with him about doing my 10. There is one in 08A but I do
not know the name. I would be careful about stated down time with them. I
believe both places also do interior work. There was a shop at JKA but heard
it may not be open now.
Good luck
Doug Preston
BHM
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 7
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Hey, don't laugh. I read about a guy in a glass plane that did just that. He
didn't attach his wing attach bolts with nuts but just glassed over them. It
made for a very troubling first test flight.
Jeff
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams@yahoo.com>
>
> I heard it was better to wait until after the initial test flights to do the
> final riveting in case you need to make some adjustments. :?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=93886#93886
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<html><body>
<DIV>Hey, don't laugh. I read about a guy in a glass plane that did just
that. He didn't attach his wing attach bolts with nuts but just glassed
over them. It made for a very troubling first test flight.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jeff</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
oshare
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 8
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| Subject: | The RV Smile - continued |
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction To List |
Jim
Welcome!
I faced the same choice and went with the -10, but I guess your mission is
should be the real driver.
Don't forget, the -10 will be more $$$, but ALSO will take quite a bit more
time and effort to get in the air.
I've never heard the LLC/Corp requirement before, but I do have an S-Corp
that owns my Cherokee and my -10.
Your panel sounds fantastic. Good luck!
Where are you located by the way. I'm in Michigan.
Jeff Dalton
RV-10 Wings
----- Original Message -----
From: "James S. Clark IV" <james.s.clark@comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 8:59 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Introduction To List
> <james.s.clark@comcast.net>
>
> Hello all,
>
> My name is Jim Clark and I would like to introduce myself to your
> wonderful online community. I have been lurking for ~10 weeks now and am
> finally brave enough to say hello. I'm addicted.
>
> I, in partnership with a close colleague at work, have decided to
> undertake this monumental project. I have been planning and budgeting for
> several months and am still waffling on what may seem to you guys as a
> very important fundamental decision: which kit RV-7 or RV-10.
>
> First a brief background on my goals/budget for this project. Knowing
> this info may elicit some targeted advice from you folks:
>
> First: although I haven't finalized an airframe decision, the following
> is pretty firmed up:
> 3 screen GRT EFIS / EM / MFD with internal WAAS & 5 Hz & probably dual
> AHRS. (Want the chelton 2/3 screen but can't afford it).
> Garmin GTX330 with TIS
> Garmin SL30 Nav/Com
> 8000 audio panel
> Panel mount GPS & other comm undecided.
> New engine, & redundancy in most areas.
> Cross country from east coast to midwest and occasional CA trips.
>
> I am finishing up my IFR rating and absolutely cannot spend more than
> 150k over the next 2 years. With a strong desire for moderate IFR
> capability and redundancy and nice avionics, I am finding myself having
> to cut costs somewhere. My question is this: Is it crazy to save 25k by
> choosing the RV-7 over the RV-10? I know it seems strange to pick
> everything but the airframe first, but those are my priorities (IFR &
> avionics first).
>
> I want quickbuild and with ~32k worth of avionics, the RV-10 is pushing
> 140k with a new 260 HP. I'd like to hear your thoughts, should I get the
> RV-10 and initially save costs in the avionics area by leaving blank
> panel area on the right side? I am single, but have a strong desire to
> take more than 1 friend along on camping / biking trips. My partner in
> this project is a coworker and luckily also a neighbor. He has a family
> of 4.
>
> I understand to both get Repairman certs we will need to purchase as an
> LLC/corp is this right?
>
> How much more gas / hr do you think the RV-10 is vs the RV-7. Are there
> any other extra OPERATING expenses for the RV-10 over the RV-7 that I am
> misssing.
>
> Thanks in advance for any responses. I apologize for the longwinded
> introduction. I can hardly contain my excitement, but I am cautiously
> approaching this project.
>
> Cheers,
> -Jim Clark
> RV-Story DVD in hand and...
> On the fence...
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | what do you call yourself to ATC? |
There may be more to the story than just AIM. Here is a copy (picture, not
cut/paste unfortunately) of my Operating Limitations:
This would imply you need to tack on "Experimental" to at least the first
call. While an argument could probably be made that most, if not all
eventually, controllers know a RV-10 is an experimental it legally probably
shouldn't be assumed. FWIW, I always use "Experimental 585MR" then just
"585MR" or even "5MR" if the conversation has gone back and forth a few
times.
Marcus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Erickson
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 9:23 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: what do you call yourself to ATC?
Scott,
The AIM is very specific about this. Here is the quote (the examples in the
quote are from the AIM also).
QUOTE
"3. Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft type, model or
manufacturer's name, followed by the digits/letters of the registration
number. When the aircraft manufacturer's name or model is stated, the prefix
"N" is dropped; e.g., Aztec Two Four Six Four Alpha.
EXAMPLE-
1. Bonanza Six Five Five Golf.
2. Breezy Six One Three Romeo Experimental (omit "Experimental" after
initial contact)."
END QUOTE
Basically, using "Experimental XXX" is counter to what the AIM says. When
you think about it, it makes sense. The purpose of using the manufacturers
name in the callsign (not trying to start an argument on who the
manufacturer of an experimental is... For these purposes let's just call it
RV...) is to give the controller a small clue as to your capabilities. RV
XXX does that while Experimental XXX doesn't. Just tag Experimental to the
end of your callsign on initial contact to fulfill the requirements of the
ops limits and the AIM and you're good...
John
RV-10 #40208 Wings
RV-8 N94DW (or should that be RV 94DW Experimental? :-) )
(btw, moving to Ogden in 2 weeks... Any chance I can get a look at that
gorgeous plane?)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 2:57 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: what do you call yourself to ATC?
--> <sschmidt@ussynthetic.com>
I would say more and more I am hearing "RV XXXX", and Experimental is
phasing out. I have talked to a few different ATC controllers and they all
know what an RV is and like to hear that.
Is Steve Darton listening? What do you think?
Is there any problems saying "RV 104XP"? It seems like everyone up here
calls themselves "RV" and I have continued to called myself Experimental but
that is such a long word. I'm actually going to start saying "RV"
now and see what they say.
Scott Schmidt
sschmidt@ussynthetic.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 7:37 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: what do you call yourself to ATC?
I hear some call "experimental", a few call "red experimental" and most call
"rv-whatever". I don't know what is officially the right way, but most, in
my experience, say the actual model of airplane, not experimental. I have
heard of several cases where ATC wanted to know about and chat about "that
4-seat RV" and one case where they actually asked the pilot to change
frequencies to chat about the plane, especially when hitting ground speeds
over 185Kts on descent into an airport.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: what do you call yourself to ATC?
You've got it right. "Experimental <N-Number>, 10 miles East at 6500'
inbound with Oscar" For filing, I had been filing HXB/G, but now that I
hear "RV10" is in the system, RV10/G should work too. Usually ATC asks what
kind of plane we are, when they see the speeds we're making....then I tell
them I'm an RV10.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Chris Johnston wrote:
> Hey all -
>
> just sitting around staring at the James cowl that I picked up this
> evening from the freight station, and I wondered... when you call ATC
> and you're flying an RV, what do you call yourself? I know about 97%
> of you guys just rolled your eyes, but I've never flown in an RV of
> any type. Or anything experimental at all. Do you say "experimental
> 12345 downwind abeam" or what? Inquiring minds want to know.
>
> cj #40410 fuse www.perfectlygoodairplane.net do not archive
__________ NOD32 2046 (20070208) Information __________
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction To List |
Jim I have a 7A and I am building a 10. These aircraft offer vastly
different rolls. The 2 seater is for acrobatics and day/night VFR. Where
the 10 can be IFR and straight and level flown. As for the $25k difference,
well, good luck. You may get away with 60-80 on a 7 but the 10 will exeed
130k for your requirement. Also the 10 has much more fiberglass than any
other RV. How are your skills there? It can be learned but get help from
other builders, they are more than willing to if asked. This is the best
fraternity I have ever had the pleasure of being in. As far as the FAA is
concerned I believe only one person can be listed on the repairman Cert.
Good luck in either choice. They are both great machines.
Tad S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "jdalton77" <jdalton77@comcast.net>
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Introduction To List
>
> Jim
>
> Welcome!
>
> I faced the same choice and went with the -10, but I guess your mission is
> should be the real driver.
>
> Don't forget, the -10 will be more $$$, but ALSO will take quite a bit
> more time and effort to get in the air.
>
> I've never heard the LLC/Corp requirement before, but I do have an S-Corp
> that owns my Cherokee and my -10.
>
> Your panel sounds fantastic. Good luck!
>
> Where are you located by the way. I'm in Michigan.
>
> Jeff Dalton
> RV-10 Wings
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James S. Clark IV" <james.s.clark@comcast.net>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 8:59 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: Introduction To List
>
>
>> <james.s.clark@comcast.net>
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> My name is Jim Clark and I would like to introduce myself to your
>> wonderful online community. I have been lurking for ~10 weeks now and am
>> finally brave enough to say hello. I'm addicted.
>>
>> I, in partnership with a close colleague at work, have decided to
>> undertake this monumental project. I have been planning and budgeting
>> for several months and am still waffling on what may seem to you guys as
>> a very important fundamental decision: which kit RV-7 or RV-10.
>>
>> First a brief background on my goals/budget for this project. Knowing
>> this info may elicit some targeted advice from you folks:
>>
>> First: although I haven't finalized an airframe decision, the following
>> is pretty firmed up:
>> 3 screen GRT EFIS / EM / MFD with internal WAAS & 5 Hz & probably dual
>> AHRS. (Want the chelton 2/3 screen but can't afford it).
>> Garmin GTX330 with TIS
>> Garmin SL30 Nav/Com
>> 8000 audio panel
>> Panel mount GPS & other comm undecided.
>> New engine, & redundancy in most areas.
>> Cross country from east coast to midwest and occasional CA trips.
>>
>> I am finishing up my IFR rating and absolutely cannot spend more than
>> 150k over the next 2 years. With a strong desire for moderate IFR
>> capability and redundancy and nice avionics, I am finding myself having
>> to cut costs somewhere. My question is this: Is it crazy to save 25k by
>> choosing the RV-7 over the RV-10? I know it seems strange to pick
>> everything but the airframe first, but those are my priorities (IFR &
>> avionics first).
>>
>> I want quickbuild and with ~32k worth of avionics, the RV-10 is pushing
>> 140k with a new 260 HP. I'd like to hear your thoughts, should I get the
>> RV-10 and initially save costs in the avionics area by leaving blank
>> panel area on the right side? I am single, but have a strong desire to
>> take more than 1 friend along on camping / biking trips. My partner in
>> this project is a coworker and luckily also a neighbor. He has a family
>> of 4.
>>
>> I understand to both get Repairman certs we will need to purchase as an
>> LLC/corp is this right?
>>
>> How much more gas / hr do you think the RV-10 is vs the RV-7. Are there
>> any other extra OPERATING expenses for the RV-10 over the RV-7 that I am
>> misssing.
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any responses. I apologize for the longwinded
>> introduction. I can hardly contain my excitement, but I am cautiously
>> approaching this project.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jim Clark
>> RV-Story DVD in hand and...
>> On the fence...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction To List |
Uhhh... not sure that it takes considerably more time to build a -10. My
total time was 2550hrs, slow build, and I considered it to be on the high
end compared to some of the numbers that I've heard. This seems reasonably
close to the 2-seat models.
Don't forget to add unexpected/hidden costs into your estimate. Shipping
charges, epoxy, filler, primer, window/winshield glue, tank sealer,
headliner, carpet, baggage door lock, are some items off the top of my head
but it goes on and on.... mine was around $9K. I think Tim Olson's was
$11K at one point during his project.
Anh
N591VU-22hrs
----- Original Message -----
From: "jdalton77" <jdalton77@comcast.net>
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Introduction To List
>
>
>
> Jim
>
> Welcome!
>
> I faced the same choice and went with the -10, but I guess your mission is
> should be the real driver.
>
> Don't forget, the -10 will be more $$$, but ALSO will take quite a bit
> more time and effort to get in the air.
>
> I've never heard the LLC/Corp requirement before, but I do have an S-Corp
> that owns my Cherokee and my -10.
>
> Your panel sounds fantastic. Good luck!
>
> Where are you located by the way. I'm in Michigan.
>
> Jeff Dalton
> RV-10 Wings
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James S. Clark IV" <james.s.clark@comcast.net>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 8:59 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: Introduction To List
>
>
>> <james.s.clark@comcast.net>
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> My name is Jim Clark and I would like to introduce myself to your
>> wonderful online community. I have been lurking for ~10 weeks now and am
>> finally brave enough to say hello. I'm addicted.
>>
>> I, in partnership with a close colleague at work, have decided to
>> undertake this monumental project. I have been planning and budgeting
>> for several months and am still waffling on what may seem to you guys as
>> a very important fundamental decision: which kit RV-7 or RV-10.
>>
>> First a brief background on my goals/budget for this project. Knowing
>> this info may elicit some targeted advice from you folks:
>>
>> First: although I haven't finalized an airframe decision, the following
>> is pretty firmed up:
>> 3 screen GRT EFIS / EM / MFD with internal WAAS & 5 Hz & probably dual
>> AHRS. (Want the chelton 2/3 screen but can't afford it).
>> Garmin GTX330 with TIS
>> Garmin SL30 Nav/Com
>> 8000 audio panel
>> Panel mount GPS & other comm undecided.
>> New engine, & redundancy in most areas.
>> Cross country from east coast to midwest and occasional CA trips.
>>
>> I am finishing up my IFR rating and absolutely cannot spend more than
>> 150k over the next 2 years. With a strong desire for moderate IFR
>> capability and redundancy and nice avionics, I am finding myself having
>> to cut costs somewhere. My question is this: Is it crazy to save 25k by
>> choosing the RV-7 over the RV-10? I know it seems strange to pick
>> everything but the airframe first, but those are my priorities (IFR &
>> avionics first).
>>
>> I want quickbuild and with ~32k worth of avionics, the RV-10 is pushing
>> 140k with a new 260 HP. I'd like to hear your thoughts, should I get the
>> RV-10 and initially save costs in the avionics area by leaving blank
>> panel area on the right side? I am single, but have a strong desire to
>> take more than 1 friend along on camping / biking trips. My partner in
>> this project is a coworker and luckily also a neighbor. He has a family
>> of 4.
>>
>> I understand to both get Repairman certs we will need to purchase as an
>> LLC/corp is this right?
>>
>> How much more gas / hr do you think the RV-10 is vs the RV-7. Are there
>> any other extra OPERATING expenses for the RV-10 over the RV-7 that I am
>> misssing.
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any responses. I apologize for the longwinded
>> introduction. I can hardly contain my excitement, but I am cautiously
>> approaching this project.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jim Clark
>> RV-Story DVD in hand and...
>> On the fence...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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