Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:38 AM - Re: VS-1014 Question in Empennage (Bob Leffler)
2. 04:13 AM - Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve (Richard Reynolds)
3. 04:42 AM - Re: Electrical System Critique (Jesse Saint)
4. 06:51 AM - Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve- REDUX (Richard Reynolds)
5. 07:03 AM - Re: Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
6. 07:37 AM - Re: Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve (Kelly McMullen)
7. 07:41 AM - Re: VS-1014 Question in Empennage ()
8. 08:05 AM - Re: Re: Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve ()
9. 08:22 AM - Re: Re: VS-1014 Question in Empennage (Jesse Saint)
10. 08:23 AM - Engine Mount Hole Alignment to Firewall (Niko)
11. 08:25 AM - Re: Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve- REDUX (ddddsp1@juno.com)
12. 08:44 AM - Re: Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve- REDUX (Werner Schneider)
13. 09:32 AM - Re: Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve- REDUX (LarryRosen@comcast.net)
14. 09:39 AM - Re: Electrical System Critique (RV_10)
15. 09:40 AM - Re: unbelievable!!! (Pascal)
16. 10:45 AM - Pro seal (John Gonzalez)
17. 11:07 AM - Re: Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve- REDUX (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
18. 11:22 AM - Re: Pro seal (Jesse Saint)
19. 12:17 PM - Re: Pro seal (Rene Felker)
20. 12:33 PM - Happy Anniversary Tim! (Pascal)
21. 01:03 PM - Re: Pro seal (Albert Gardner)
22. 01:39 PM - Re: Pro seal (John W. Cox)
23. 01:56 PM - Re: Pro seal (John Gonzalez)
24. 02:08 PM - Re: Panel Lettering (McGANN, Ron)
25. 02:30 PM - Re: Pro seal (Jesse Saint)
26. 03:57 PM - Re: Pro seal (rv10builder)
27. 04:00 PM - Re: Pro seal (tadsargent)
28. 04:22 PM - Re: Happy Anniversary Tim! (Larry Rosen)
29. 05:59 PM - Extensions (Rick Leach)
30. 06:32 PM - Re: Extensions (dogsbark@comcast.net)
31. 06:34 PM - Re: unbelievable!!! (John Jessen)
32. 06:49 PM - Re: Extensions (Jesse Saint)
33. 06:51 PM - N2733K (Jesse Saint)
34. 07:24 PM - Re: Happy Anniversary Tim! (Tim Olson)
35. 10:13 PM - Re: Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve- REDUX (Werner Schneider)
Message 1
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| Subject: | VS-1014 Question in Empennage |
It appears that my mistake was that I dimpled VS-1003 and VS-1001, then
counter sink VS-1014.
It has been brought to my attention that I should have not done anything to
VS-1014 and just counter sink VS1003 to accept the dimpled skin.
The question that I guess Van's will need to answer is can I just rivet
this, or will it require me to start fresh with new parts.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 6:38 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: VS-1014 Question in Empennage
Are you referring to the top hole on each piece? If so, are you machine
countersinking the VS-1014 or the VS-1003. The hole that need to be
countersunk are the VS-1003 to accept a dimple in the skin for the head of
the 426AD3 rivet. If you countersunk the VS-1014, then I may recommend
getting it replaced and countersinking the hold on the spar with the new one
in place. If this is the case, then you should talk to Van's, but that part
can't be too expensive.
If you did countersink the hold in the VS-1003 and the countersink reaches
to the edge of the VS-1014, then I would recommend shortening it and using
an OOPS rivet in that hole because it is bigger because of the countersink
in the spar.
If you are talking about the bottom hole, then that shouldn't need a
countersink because that gets the 470AD3 rivet if I'm not mistaken.
If I am looking at the wrong part, then ignore this and give me an
electronic slap to straighten me up.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 1:49 PM
Subject: RV10-List: VS-1014 Question in Empennage
After match drilling the holes of both VS-1014 with VS-1003 in the RV-10
empennage kit, I noticed that the last hole on each of the VS-1014 is too
close to the end. After countersinking, the edge of the counter sink hole
is at the end of the VS-1014.
I see three options, with the option two appearing to make the most sense to
me.
1. Leave it as is, but with the hole this close, I suspect this will
eventually crack and my cause a problem with the VS-1014 doubler down the
road.
2. Trim the VS-1014 a little shorter to remove this last hole. This would
shorten the piece about 1/4 inch.
3. There is always start over with a new part, but since this is a length
issue on a part that I didn't cut, I'm not sure I wouldn't end up in the
same boat again.
I can forward a picture if necessary.
What option would you recommend I take?
Thanks,
Bob
#40684
Message 2
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| Subject: | Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve |
Does anyone have a source or suggestion for the alternate air valve
like the "real" planes have?
Richard Reynolds
Message 3
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| Subject: | Electrical System Critique |
Responses below.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Testement
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 9:36 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Electrical System Critique
Thank you Tim, Larry, Jesse, and Carl for you inputs.
[Jesse Saint] Glad to be of help, although very little, I am sure.
My guess is that there are a lot of us deliberating the numerous options and
trade offs on the electrical system. I would like to encourage us to get a
useful dialog going to sort through the pros and cons of the various
approaches.
Based on what I have learned, I have changed my approach considerably. I
have attached my new design as well as the old design (as a PDF for those
who could not open it before). Let's continue to critique the approach for
everyone's benefit.
Tim made some really good points about having independent power (not on the
cranking battery) to the Cheltons, Eng. Monitor and Elect. Ignition for
engine start. This caused me to drop the idea of having a 2nd battery
available for cranking and use the second battery for start-up avionics and
Ebus backup. The main changes I have made are:
I am going with one large main battery - Odyssey 925, 25AH; and a smaller
12AH auxiliary battery (much like Tim's).
During engine start I will run the Ebus (PFD, Eng Mon and E Ign) off of the
Aux battery while cranking from the main battery. After start, I will turn
off the Ebus alternate feed, turn on the Avionics switch, and run everything
off the main battery. I will run the E Ign. off the aux battery (everything
is really running off the alternator during flight anyway).
I have moved the pitot heat and the fuel boost pump to the main bus.
If the alternator fails I will switch to the Ebus alt feed, manually load
shed the main bus (most loads are on switches anyway). And if I need fuel
boost or pitot, I can turn the main bus back on. The only downside is if the
main battery fails I can only power the Ebus from the aux battery.
I took the contactor off the aux battery since the load is under 15A and a
contactor would draw 1A during an emergency. I don't have an Aux battery
switch (other than the Ebus alt feed switch) since I can't think of a need
for one. The Aux battery will be charged through a diode to the main bus and
the E. Ign is tied through a breaker.
I put the Eng. Monitor on the Ebus since it will be on during start up. I
will be using the AFS3400 which gives me full EFIS back up with its own
internal battery.
[Jesse Saint] Much like this, using the Dynon FlightDek, I use the internal
battery to have the engine monitor on during start up and leave everything
else off.
Some concerns and questions: I am running #8 from the alternator to the main
bus. The wire size chart (AC43.13) says a #8 wire is good for 70A at 10ft.
Others are using #6 to go from alternator to the main bus. Do I have a
problem?
[Jesse Saint] I haven't had any problems running #8 like I believe Van's has
in their wiring harness.
Should I put the smaller aux battery under the flap tunnel or next to the
main battery for W&B? What is a good/light 12AH battery?
[Jesse Saint] I have not even looked at this personally, but have you
considered putting the small battery up near the panel, maybe on top of the
tunnel cover just aft of the firewall for even shorter wiring runs to it?
How much would a battery like this weigh? This brings up the discussion of
whether the plane is nose-heavy or tail-heavy, which depends on how it is
flown. Although we have been over it many times in the far past, if you are
light and nose heavy, it is easy to put ballast in the back, but if you are
heavy and tail heavy, you can't easily add ballast to the front, especially
as you burn off fuel. My vote would be for putting the extra battery in the
front, for what it's worth.
Is the Ebus diode really needed in this design?
Should the main battery be grounded locally as well as running to the
firewall?
[Jesse Saint] I wouldn't do both. I think grounding locally is fine.
Unless you are trying to avoid grounding to the airframe for whatever
reason, I see no reason not to ground the battery locally and use the
airframe to carry the ground forward. Saves cost for wire, weight of wire,
and need for more wiring holes running forward.
Let me know what you think and contribute any ideas for the benefit of all
the others who are working through their designs.
John Testement
jwt@roadmapscoaching.com
40321
Richmond, VA
FWF, engine, wiring
[Jesse Saint] do not archive
--
Message 4
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| Subject: | Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve- REDUX |
OK,I 'm sorry, apologize, etc.
Does anyone have a source or suggestion for the alternate air valve
for superior crafted OBAM planes?
Does anyone have a source or suggestion for the alternate air valve
like the "real" planes have?
Richard Reynolds
Message 5
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| Subject: | Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve |
My Real RV10 has an alternate air source, I used the kit for the static
system from Safeair, and included the alternate option. But I do not
know if the RV10 is real enough for you?
Dan
N289DT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Reynolds
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 7:11 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve
Does anyone have a source or suggestion for the alternate air valve
like the "real" planes have?
Richard Reynolds
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve |
A lot of "unreal" type certificated aircraft are certified for IFR
without an alternate static source. Both TC aircraft I have owned fit
that description.
On 2/12/07, Richard Reynolds <rvreynolds@macs.net> wrote:
>
> Does anyone have a source or suggestion for the alternate air valve
> like the "real" planes have?
>
> Richard Reynolds
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | RE: VS-1014 Question in Empennage |
Just got off the phone with Gus at Van's. His opinion was just to proceed, since
dimpling the VS-1003 and countersinking the VS-1014s doesn't weaken the structure.
He didn't think there would be an issue with the edge of the counter sink at the
upper end of the VS-1014. But quickly added if that bothered me, just to add
a doubler on the last two (top) holes to the VS-1014.
Boy, did I learn some lessons this weekend! Thanks to all that provided feedback.
bob
>It appears that my mistake was that I dimpled VS-1003 and VS-1001, then
>counter sink VS-1014.
>It has been brought to my attention that I should have not done anything to
>VS-1014 and just counter sink VS1003 to accept the dimpled skin.
>The question that I guess Van's will need to answer is can I just rivet
>this, or will it require me to start fresh with new parts.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve |
My Cherokee has the same valve for an alternate static source as the fuel quick
drain valves. I don't recall their name, but I can look it up when I get home.
I paid like $75 dollars to get it from Wentworth, so I was sure to installed
the OEM part, but was disappointed when I saw what the valve actually was and
could have bought the same valve (although not with the appropriate Piper p/n#)
from my FBO for about $10.
In looking at the Safeair alternate, while it appears to be quite easy to remove
the plug, how easy is it to blindly replace the plug for testing?
The valve on my Cherokee can open and close blindy with one finger. The valve
is just under the dash by my knee.
>
> From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR@wernerco.com>
> Date: 2007/02/12 Mon AM 10:02:53 EST
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve
>
>
> My Real RV10 has an alternate air source, I used the kit for the static
> system from Safeair, and included the alternate option. But I do not
> know if the RV10 is real enough for you?
> Dan
> N289DT
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
> Reynolds
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 7:11 AM
> To: Email RV; rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve
>
>
> Does anyone have a source or suggestion for the alternate air valve
> like the "real" planes have?
>
> Richard Reynolds
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | RE: VS-1014 Question in Empennage |
That sounds fine. Gus is really a great guy to get on the phone. He knows
his stuff and is pleasant to talk to [unlike some other(s)]. That sounds
like a fine fix to me if Van's says it.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rvmail@thelefflers.com
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 10:41 AM
Subject: RV10-List: RE: VS-1014 Question in Empennage
Just got off the phone with Gus at Van's. His opinion was just to proceed,
since dimpling the VS-1003 and countersinking the VS-1014s doesn't weaken
the structure.
He didn't think there would be an issue with the edge of the counter sink at
the upper end of the VS-1014. But quickly added if that bothered me, just
to add a doubler on the last two (top) holes to the VS-1014.
Boy, did I learn some lessons this weekend! Thanks to all that provided
feedback.
bob
>It appears that my mistake was that I dimpled VS-1003 and VS-1001, then
>counter sink VS-1014.
>It has been brought to my attention that I should have not done anything to
>VS-1014 and just counter sink VS1003 to accept the dimpled skin.
>The question that I guess Van's will need to answer is can I just rivet
>this, or will it require me to start fresh with new parts.
--
6:50 PM
Message 10
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| Subject: | Engine Mount Hole Alignment to Firewall |
I tried to drill the engine mount holes in the firewall this weekend. Afte
r drilling the left upper hole first (pilots side) I noticed that the firew
all pilot hole on the upper right side is about 3/16 inch off (outboard.)
The lower holes are not too bad. I sent an email to Vans asking if I shoul
d simply stretch the engine mount frame into place since it appears I can p
ull it into place with just my hands (no clamps ). Here is the response.
=0A=0A"Since the engine mount weldment moves somewhat when it it =0Aremoved
from the jig, we don't expect all the holes to line up. If =0Aafter drill
ing the upper left hole, some of the other holes seem to be =0Afairly close
, drill them first. Drill the upper right hole last. Don't =0Aforce the m
ount into position."=0A=0AI am including this since when I did a search on
the archives I found references to forcing the mount into position.=0A=0AFo
llowing the recommended procedure it would be interesting if one has to rep
lace an engine mount frame. I hope they all move the same amount after rem
oval from the jig.=0A=0A=0ANiko=0A40188
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve- REDUX |
Try Tony at SAFEAIR1.
Dean
40449
________________________________________________________________________
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http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=198954&u=http://www.usatoday.com/news/f
ront.htm?csp=24
<html><P>Try Tony at SAFEAIR1.</P>
<P>Dean</P>
<P>40449</P>
<font face="Times-New-Roman" size="2"><br><br>______________________
__________________________________________________<br>
<a href="http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=198954&u=http://www.usatoday
.com/news/front.htm?csp=24">Interested in getting caught up on today's
news?<br>
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve- REDUX |
Hi Richard,
hopefully attached, what I did (on a Glastar) a Curtis Drain Valve
CCA-1550 together with a T and two elbows to fit the static line.
And I did an inflight check, error is 4 KIAS to high indication.
Werner
Richard Reynolds wrote:
> OK,I 'm sorry, apologize, etc.
>
> Does anyone have a source or suggestion for the alternate air valve
> for superior crafted OBAM planes?
>
> Does anyone have a source or suggestion for the alternate air valve
> like the "real" planes have?
>
> Richard Reynolds
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve- REDUX |
Safe Air 1 has a kit <www.safeair1.com>
But, I like Werner's approach better.
Larry Rosen
#356
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
> Hi Richard,
>
> hopefully attached, what I did (on a Glastar) a Curtis Drain Valve
> CCA-1550 together with a T and two elbows to fit the static line.
>
> And I did an inflight check, error is 4 KIAS to high indication.
>
> Werner
>
> Richard Reynolds wrote:
> > OK,I 'm sorry, apologize, etc.
> >
> > Does anyone have a source or suggestion for the alternate air valve
> > for superior crafted OBAM planes?
> >
> > Does anyone have a source or suggestion for the alternate air valve
> > like the "real" planes have?
> >
> > Richard Reynolds
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
From: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve- REDUX
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Hi Richard,
hopefully attached, what I did (on a Glastar) a Curtis Drain Valve
CCA-1550 together with a T and two elbows to fit the static line.
And I did an inflight check, error is 4 KIAS to high indication.
Werner
Richard Reynolds wrote:
> OK,I 'm sorry, apologize, etc.
>
> Does anyone have a source or suggestion for the alternate air valve
> for superior crafted OBAM planes?
>
> Does anyone have a source or suggestion for the alternate air valve
> like the "real" planes have?
>
> Richard Reynolds
>
> *
>
>
> *
--------------030306060507070609060704
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Hi Richard,<br>
<br>
<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">hopefully attached, what I
did (on a Glastar) a Curtis Drain Valve </font><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="EN-US"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">CCA-1550 together with a T and
two elbows to fit the static line.<br>
<br>
And I did an inflight check, error is 4 KIAS to high indication.<br>
<br>
Werner<br>
</font></span><br>
Richard Reynolds wrote:
<blockquote cite="midB529155B-8E7B-477C-AF8C-BB9DB3B3508B@macs.net"
type="cite">
<div style="margin: 0px;">OK,I 'm sorry, apologize, etc.</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><br class="khtml-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">Does anyone have a source or suggestion
for the alternate air valve for superior crafted OBAM planes?</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><br class="khtml-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="text-decoration: line-through;">Does anyone have a source or
suggestion for the alternate air valve like the "real" planes have?</span></div>
<div style="margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">Richard Reynolds</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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</font></b></pre>
</blockquote>
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Message 14
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| Subject: | Electrical System Critique |
Hi John,
I am also struggling with this design and am probably two steps behind you.
I like the way you have laid yours out, combining physical location with the
electrical diagram. This helps me conceptualise.
My own thoughts are not dissimilar to yours with a couple of variations. I
am keen to bullet proof my electrical system so at a conceptual level what I
am thinking is as follows:-
* Two batteries of equal size so you can change them out alternately
and always have a relatively new battery for the avionics/endurance buss.
Two 17AH batteries should suffice
* Run two fairly equal size busses, one with the main airframe
electrics as you have done, the second with the critical to flight safety
avionics etc. The critical to flight safety buss might be on two busses, an
avionics buss and an endurance buss. To balance out the busses I am
considering putting the engine monitor system on the main power buss because
I want it for engine start and if I lose a circuit I figure I can live
without this for the time it takes to sort out what has happened and what I
need to do. If necessary, completing the rest of the flight without it is
probably OK if not desirable. As pointed out, most items on the main buss
are separately switched, so after things settle you can switch as desired to
get back what you can afford to carry.
* Set the batteries up so you can choose to run either battery with
either circuit. If both batteries are down the back, this creates a problem
with added wire weight to my mind, because you need to run three 4AWG wires
from the back if you plan to use both batteries to crank, and two 4AWG plus
1 2AWG if you plan to use one battery to crank. We live in Australia so we
don't get the freezing conditions where I plan to do most my flying, so I
like the idea of using the older battery on the power circuit, using it to
crank the engine on its own, and at the first sign of not doing that task
well, change that battery out for a new one and rotate batteries. I
recognize that this approach won't suit all situations. I would like to put
the main battery up the front so I can run very short wires from it to crank
the engine, but I am not sure yet whether this is appropriate from a weight
and balance perspective. I do like Jesse Saint's logic from a weight and
balance perspective with doing this.
* Install two alternators which are switched to run either/or, not
both because of the complexity associated with trying to get both
alternators working at the same time, plus I think it is better redundancy
planning this way.
* Run one electronic and one mag ignition as you have done, so that
in the absolute worse case scenario the engine keeps running on the mag.
* No vacuum system because of their weight and inherent
unreliability.
* Run over voltage protection on both alternators because of the
damage that can be done to everything without it.
That's about where I am with my thinking at this stage and I am now ready to
move to the more detailed planning phase.
Would you please post an ACAD version of your layout if you have one?
Thanks very much for kicking this thread off, it is very helpful.
John Cleary
(finishing wings, started fuse)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Testement
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 1:36 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Electrical System Critique
Thank you Tim, Larry, Jesse, and Carl for you inputs.
My guess is that there are a lot of us deliberating the numerous options and
trade offs on the electrical system. I would like to encourage us to get a
useful dialog going to sort through the pros and cons of the various
approaches.
Based on what I have learned, I have changed my approach considerably. I
have attached my new design as well as the old design (as a PDF for those
who could not open it before). Let's continue to critique the approach for
everyone's benefit.
Tim made some really good points about having independent power (not on the
cranking battery) to the Cheltons, Eng. Monitor and Elect. Ignition for
engine start. This caused me to drop the idea of having a 2nd battery
available for cranking and use the second battery for start-up avionics and
Ebus backup. The main changes I have made are:
I am going with one large main battery - Odyssey 925, 25AH; and a smaller
12AH auxiliary battery (much like Tim's).
During engine start I will run the Ebus (PFD, Eng Mon and E Ign) off of the
Aux battery while cranking from the main battery. After start, I will turn
off the Ebus alternate feed, turn on the Avionics switch, and run everything
off the main battery. I will run the E Ign. off the aux battery (everything
is really running off the alternator during flight anyway).
I have moved the pitot heat and the fuel boost pump to the main bus.
If the alternator fails I will switch to the Ebus alt feed, manually load
shed the main bus (most loads are on switches anyway). And if I need fuel
boost or pitot, I can turn the main bus back on. The only downside is if the
main battery fails I can only power the Ebus from the aux battery.
I took the contactor off the aux battery since the load is under 15A and a
contactor would draw 1A during an emergency. I don't have an Aux battery
switch (other than the Ebus alt feed switch) since I can't think of a need
for one. The Aux battery will be charged through a diode to the main bus and
the E. Ign is tied through a breaker.
I put the Eng. Monitor on the Ebus since it will be on during start up. I
will be using the AFS3400 which gives me full EFIS back up with its own
internal battery.
Some concerns and questions: I am running #8 from the alternator to the main
bus. The wire size chart (AC43.13) says a #8 wire is good for 70A at 10ft.
Others are using #6 to go from alternator to the main bus. Do I have a
problem?
Should I put the smaller aux battery under the flap tunnel or next to the
main battery for W&B? What is a good/light 12AH battery?
Is the Ebus diode really needed in this design?
Should the main battery be grounded locally as well as running to the
firewall?
Let me know what you think and contribute any ideas for the benefit of all
the others who are working through their designs.
John Testement
jwt@roadmapscoaching.com
40321
Richmond, VA
FWF, engine, wiring
--
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| Subject: | Re: unbelievable!!! |
and now we know
"the rest of the story"
Thanks Stein.
----- Original Message -----
From: SteinAir, Inc.
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 3:53 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: unbelievable!!!
Wow....I can't believe all the banter about these planes from
literally everyone who has little to NO knowledge themselves. It seems
even Jims "understanding" is just flat wrong. The facts are:
Predator Aviation was building a custom plane called the "Kymera 750"
(aka an RV-10 with a 700+somethingth hp engine) and also the Kymera 440.
They Kymera "750" was priced/sold around $300K and the "440" was
around $200K.
They had to call them a new plane, because Predator Aviation
themselves got in trouble selling/advertising turnkey RV-10's (The FAA
got in the middle of it some time ago).
Predator Aviation/Chris Opperman sold TWO "Kymera 750's or 440's" to
individuals who BOTH paid a LOT of money (we're talking hundreds of
thousands of $$'s here).
Incidentally, both of the buyers / customers are doctors - I know one
of them very well and just met the other after this whole debacle. I
was building the panel for one of the customers and the other was being
built by Predator (supposedly).
Chris ordered avionis from me for "both" planes.
Predator Aviation constantly send updates to both "customers" complete
with pictures, progress reports, etc.. on BOTH planes.
Both customers truly believed that each of them was having a plane
built by Opperman and relied on his "progress reports" of newly clecoed
together pieces as proof of progress.
Both customers previous to his "death" last year did not know each
other.
Both customers didn't spend time on site.
Both customers found out after Oppermans death that in fact there was
only ONE airplane, and an incomplete one at that.
Both customers fought over who's plane it was (since both of them had
paid a LOT OF $$'s for their plane).
The "Kymera 750 or 440" was promised to be a super fast, super
structurally modified (Chris told me many times personally about all his
"engineering" modifications to the airplane that made it so different
from an RV-10).
Quote from their sales brochure says "Airframe Reinforced for high
payload".
This whole thing was/is a bloody mess with both guys losing a ton of
money. Look at the Predator Aviation website if you want the details.
They claimed: 274mph cruise, 2400 nm range, 1850lb usefull load, 120gal
fuel capacity and 750+ hp turbocharged engine.
The only sad thing here is that the current owner of the kit was so
ignorant (who in the world honestly thinks that plane is even remotely
done). The fact is there is about 2% of work done on that plane.....I
don't think the guy is stupid, just one of the most ignorant people I've
ever met. Who thinks they have 9" GRT displays, or a 92" prop, or an
80% completed airplane that's barely unpacked from the crate?!?!?!? I
feel bad for anyone that now falls for those lies or plain ignorance (I
don't know which), just like the original two owners fell for Oppermans
lies.
As far as picking on a Dead Guy, well.....it turns out he wasn't the
most ethical, moral, or honest person in the world when it came to
customers and business. We all may wonder how in the world people get
involved in things like that, and at the time of his supposed death when
I found out all the nasty details from both customers I thought - -
"Who would send that much money without getting anything back, etc.. or
checking in constantly".
Then, I find myself losing hundreds of thousands of $$'s myself in the
middle of this D2A/Chelton debacle and I see how easy it is to end up on
the receiving end of bad deals.
Just my 2 cents as usual! Sorry if anyone gets offended, but it seems
like I've seen lots banter here with little to no first hand knowledge
of the situation.
Cheers,
Stein.
P.S., I've attached a copy of their sales brochure (if it makes it)
for your review. Chris actually thought I'd be crazy enough to try and
"resell" these things for him...!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
lessdragprod@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 2:00 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: unbelievable!!!
I certainly like to see how easy it is for some people WITHOUT ANY
APPARRENT KNOWLWDGE OF A PROJECT to be critical of another persons
dream.
It's my understanding that the builder who had this RV-10 dream
machine died of a sudden heart attack.
I like your style of picking on a dead guy. NOT.
Jim Ayers
Message 16
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I used some proseal from Van's which was sold in the caulking tube style
system.
I read the instructions several times and for the life of me without any
pictures, the directions made aboslutley no sense to me. I ended up
shooting the catalyst tube into the main product tube and then expelling it
out and hand mixing.
The question is how long does it take before a skin starts forming on the
product. WHEN i DID THE trailing edges I left everthing for five days.
Fortunately I am only glueing the SV vents to the fuse but after two days,
it's like it is not setting.
How much time is required for a tacky skin to form.
John G
Greatful for not doing the fuel tanks.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve- REDUX |
It is basically the same thing, breaking the static air line, just one
comes with a streamer to pull, or am I missing something?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
LarryRosen@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve- REDUX
Safe Air 1 has a kit <www.safeair1.com>
But, I like Werner's approach better.
Larry Rosen
#356
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
> Hi Richard,
>
> hopefully attached, what I did (on a Glastar) a Curtis Drain Valve
> CCA-1550 together with a T and two elbows to fit the static line.
>
> And I did an inflight check, error is 4 KIAS to high indication.
>
> Werner
>
> Richard Reynolds wrote:
> > OK,I 'm sorry, apologize, etc.
> >
> > Does anyone have a source or suggestion for the alternate air valve
> > for superior crafted OBAM planes?
> >
> > Does anyone have a source or suggestion for the alternate air valve
> > like the "real" planes have?
> >
> > Richard Reynolds
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
Message 18
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If it is not cured after 2 days, I wonder if the catalyst didn't get mixed
well enough and possibly that part didn't get enough if any. I used one or
two of those tubes and they started skinning within 30 minutes if I remember
correctly. The stuff in the cans seems to take longer to cure, but always
seems to cure overnight. I have never seen any that takes 2 days to cure.
I would recommend removing the vents if they will come off, cleaning the
stuff off of them and trying it again with a new batch. I remember the
directions were not very easy to understand, but it seemed to work fine for
me.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 1:43 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Pro seal
I used some proseal from Van's which was sold in the caulking tube style
system.
I read the instructions several times and for the life of me without any
pictures, the directions made aboslutley no sense to me. I ended up
shooting the catalyst tube into the main product tube and then expelling it
out and hand mixing.
The question is how long does it take before a skin starts forming on the
product. WHEN i DID THE trailing edges I left everthing for five days.
Fortunately I am only glueing the SV vents to the fuse but after two days,
it's like it is not setting.
How much time is required for a tacky skin to form.
John G
Greatful for not doing the fuel tanks.
--
6:50 PM
Message 19
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My 2 cents. Proseal needs to be mixed with the correct ratio or it will not
properly set. If I remember correctly, the set time on the stuff Vans sells
in the tubes is 30 Minutes, the can 2 hours. I think you did not get the
correct mix.
What color was it after you mixed it....black....grey......white....
Rene' Felker
40322
N423CF
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Pro seal
If it is not cured after 2 days, I wonder if the catalyst didn't get mixed
well enough and possibly that part didn't get enough if any. I used one or
two of those tubes and they started skinning within 30 minutes if I remember
correctly. The stuff in the cans seems to take longer to cure, but always
seems to cure overnight. I have never seen any that takes 2 days to cure.
I would recommend removing the vents if they will come off, cleaning the
stuff off of them and trying it again with a new batch. I remember the
directions were not very easy to understand, but it seemed to work fine for
me.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 1:43 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Pro seal
I used some proseal from Van's which was sold in the caulking tube style
system.
I read the instructions several times and for the life of me without any
pictures, the directions made aboslutley no sense to me. I ended up
shooting the catalyst tube into the main product tube and then expelling it
out and hand mixing.
The question is how long does it take before a skin starts forming on the
product. WHEN i DID THE trailing edges I left everthing for five days.
Fortunately I am only glueing the SV vents to the fuse but after two days,
it's like it is not setting.
How much time is required for a tacky skin to form.
John G
Greatful for not doing the fuel tanks.
--
6:50 PM
Message 20
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| Subject: | Happy Anniversary Tim! |
Tim;
Been a year since that first flight. Happy Anniversary!
How about a year in review and what you've learned since that first
flight?
Pascal
Message 21
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After you push the catalyst into the main tube, I think you pull/push
the
handle for about 50 times to get it all mixed up before you push it out
of
the tube to use it. I'm sure you can mix it outside of the tube since
that's
the way we do it when we use the canned product. My experience with the
stuff is that if the mix is just a little wrong it increases/decreases
the
curing time but it still cures. The properly mixed stuff should be kind
of
gray. The tubes are nice for the tanks since the nozzle lets you put
down a
nice bead inside the tanks but much more expensive than the bulk
product.
Also, you have to use/throw-away the tube but with the can you can mix
up
just what you need or, if short, just mix up a dab more. I use the old 1
dab
on a popsicle stick to 10 dabs ratio and it works fine.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
Message 22
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ProSeal is a trademarked product of PPG - DeSoto. FlameMaster makes a
similar product which is commonly confusing. Consistency is rated A, B
or C. They are mixed by product specification to a cure time of 1/4,
1/2, 1 and 2 hour set. The set process can be retarded by
refrigeration. The product has a shelf life as a perishable.
When properly mixed, it Does set and Does cure to final consistency.
Chewing gum comes to mind. It is paintable. When improperly mixed it
does not correctly cure.
B is the most often used in aviation. For Line aircraft, B1/4 sets the
quickest, B1/2 is most often used for initial construction or Heavy
Check (annual inspection) type repairs. When improperly mixed it never
becomes compliant and will fail. Spraying it with Isopropyl Alcohol
mist allows the operator to smooth the product and provide a finishing
touch. We use masking tape to form the sidelines. MEK dissolves it
before SET and is not recommended without correct clothing and barrier
skin protection.
It has many uses, it stinks, it can be messy.
A proseal "professional" for the World's Top Regional Airline of 2007.
"Proseal... love it or leave it".
John, call me on my cellphone 503-453-6016, and I will share all the
wisdom of proseal.
John Cox
#40600
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 10:43 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Pro seal
<indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
I used some proseal from Van's which was sold in the caulking tube style
system.
I read the instructions several times and for the life of me without any
pictures, the directions made aboslutley no sense to me. I ended up
shooting the catalyst tube into the main product tube and then expelling
it
out and hand mixing.
The question is how long does it take before a skin starts forming on
the
product. WHEN i DID THE trailing edges I left everthing for five days.
Fortunately I am only glueing the SV vents to the fuse but after two
days,
it's like it is not setting.
How much time is required for a tacky skin to form.
John G
Greatful for not doing the fuel tanks.
Message 23
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|
It turned grey. The black catalyst was mixed thoroughly, but I think the
catalyst quantity may have been higher in what remained in the tube(Unused
portion).
I'll pull the vents tonight and clean it all off. I've got some special
epoxy that I should have used from the start. Still don't understand the
mixing action by placing 10% into the tube, then pushing the tube in, then
putting in the rest, then pumping it, then rotating 340 degrees clockwise,
then one quarter turn counterclockwise. Or what ever. I re read it again
this am and it still made noi sense to me.
Just glad it worked for all you working on serious areas like fuel tanks.
guess I am just a visual type of guy. Thinking too hard.
I should have just mixed it like I did the can stuff, with my Pezo scale.
Thanks for the answers.
John G.
Do Not Archive
>From: "Rene Felker" <rene@felker.com>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Pro seal
>Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 13:18:03 -0700
>
>
>My 2 cents. Proseal needs to be mixed with the correct ratio or it will
>not
>properly set. If I remember correctly, the set time on the stuff Vans
>sells
>in the tubes is 30 Minutes, the can 2 hours. I think you did not get the
>correct mix.
>
>What color was it after you mixed it....black....grey......white....
>
>Rene' Felker
>40322
>N423CF
>801-721-6080
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
>Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 12:21 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Pro seal
>
>
>If it is not cured after 2 days, I wonder if the catalyst didn't get mixed
>well enough and possibly that part didn't get enough if any. I used one or
>two of those tubes and they started skinning within 30 minutes if I
>remember
>correctly. The stuff in the cans seems to take longer to cure, but always
>seems to cure overnight. I have never seen any that takes 2 days to cure.
>I would recommend removing the vents if they will come off, cleaning the
>stuff off of them and trying it again with a new batch. I remember the
>directions were not very easy to understand, but it seemed to work fine for
>me.
>
>Do not archive.
>
>Jesse Saint
>Saint Aviation, Inc.
>jesse@saintaviation.com
>www.saintaviation.com
>Cell: 352-427-0285
>Fax: 815-377-3694
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
>Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 1:43 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: Pro seal
>
>
>I used some proseal from Van's which was sold in the caulking tube style
>system.
>
>I read the instructions several times and for the life of me without any
>pictures, the directions made aboslutley no sense to me. I ended up
>shooting the catalyst tube into the main product tube and then expelling it
>out and hand mixing.
>
>The question is how long does it take before a skin starts forming on the
>product. WHEN i DID THE trailing edges I left everthing for five days.
>
>Fortunately I am only glueing the SV vents to the fuse but after two days,
>it's like it is not setting.
>
>How much time is required for a tacky skin to form.
>
>John G
>
>Greatful for not doing the fuel tanks.
>
>
>--
>6:50 PM
>
>
Message 24
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|
For those who may be interested in how the labels came out.
cheers,
Ron
finishing
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 8:57 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Panel Lettering
I remember a recent query (from Niko I think) about panel
lettering. Let me share what I am doing.
Objectives
I prefer something removeable, rather than engraved or silk
screened - provides greater flexibility in the future and I wanted to do
it myself
I wanted to use materials available locally - importing stuff to
Australia is expensive
I wanted something tough/waterproof.
I wanted flexibility in the design eg use of Visio or a CAD
package
Solution
Placard/label design was done using Visio (but any drawing
package will work)
[As an aside, once the full size label is done, print it onto
clear adhesive label, stick it to the panel and use it as a template to
drill your lamp/switch holes.]
Use a Post Script color laser printer and print a mirror image
on the Bottom side of an overhead transparency. This will mean the
print is on the underside of the slide and the print is protected by the
plastic.
White does not print on most printers, so white lines/text will
be clear on the transparency. Easy, spray a coat of white paint on the
underside of the transparency (ie the same side as the print).
The transparency will usually have a high gloss. Gently scuff
the top surface with a scotch brite pad. Apply a light spray of clear
satin acrylic - gloss gone!
Apply some thin double sided tape leaving the backing on the
panel side
Punch the switch/lamp holes using a hole punch and trim the
edges with a guillotine.
Remove the tape backing and stick onto the panel.
Voila!!!
I tried this last night and the results are awesome. Infinite
flexibility in placard design, waterproof and wear resistant label, and
it cost me nothing! Attached is an example of one of the labels. YMMV,
but it costs bugger all to give it a try <grin>.
Cheers,
Ron <<label.pdf>>
finishing
Message 25
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|
As I remember it there are actually two plungers. One is to push the
catalyst into the black stuff and the other is to mix the black stuff. You
were supposed to push the catalyst plunger about 10% in to add 10% of the
catalyst to the black stuff at that end, then slowly push the mixing plunger
into the tube while adding the catalyst as well. This distributed the
catalyst in the black stuff (man, I wish I could get away from that term).
Then, after the catalyst is completely added, you mix it together with the
mixing plunger by pumping it a certain number of times, then twisting and
pumping again just in case it wasn't getting thoroughly mixed the first
time. Then, as I remember, you unscrew one of the plungers and screw on the
nozzle and start dispensing. It didn't make sense to me at first, but this
is my understanding now, and it seemed to work, as I mentioned before.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 4:56 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Pro seal
It turned grey. The black catalyst was mixed thoroughly, but I think the
catalyst quantity may have been higher in what remained in the tube(Unused
portion).
I'll pull the vents tonight and clean it all off. I've got some special
epoxy that I should have used from the start. Still don't understand the
mixing action by placing 10% into the tube, then pushing the tube in, then
putting in the rest, then pumping it, then rotating 340 degrees clockwise,
then one quarter turn counterclockwise. Or what ever. I re read it again
this am and it still made noi sense to me.
Just glad it worked for all you working on serious areas like fuel tanks.
guess I am just a visual type of guy. Thinking too hard.
I should have just mixed it like I did the can stuff, with my Pezo scale.
Thanks for the answers.
John G.
Do Not Archive
>From: "Rene Felker" <rene@felker.com>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Pro seal
>Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 13:18:03 -0700
>
>
>My 2 cents. Proseal needs to be mixed with the correct ratio or it will
>not
>properly set. If I remember correctly, the set time on the stuff Vans
>sells
>in the tubes is 30 Minutes, the can 2 hours. I think you did not get the
>correct mix.
>
>What color was it after you mixed it....black....grey......white....
>
>Rene' Felker
>40322
>N423CF
>801-721-6080
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
>Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 12:21 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Pro seal
>
>
>If it is not cured after 2 days, I wonder if the catalyst didn't get mixed
>well enough and possibly that part didn't get enough if any. I used one or
>two of those tubes and they started skinning within 30 minutes if I
>remember
>correctly. The stuff in the cans seems to take longer to cure, but always
>seems to cure overnight. I have never seen any that takes 2 days to cure.
>I would recommend removing the vents if they will come off, cleaning the
>stuff off of them and trying it again with a new batch. I remember the
>directions were not very easy to understand, but it seemed to work fine for
>me.
>
>Do not archive.
>
>Jesse Saint
>Saint Aviation, Inc.
>jesse@saintaviation.com
>www.saintaviation.com
>Cell: 352-427-0285
>Fax: 815-377-3694
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
>Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 1:43 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: Pro seal
>
>
>I used some proseal from Van's which was sold in the caulking tube style
>system.
>
>I read the instructions several times and for the life of me without any
>pictures, the directions made aboslutley no sense to me. I ended up
>shooting the catalyst tube into the main product tube and then expelling it
>out and hand mixing.
>
>The question is how long does it take before a skin starts forming on the
>product. WHEN i DID THE trailing edges I left everthing for five days.
>
>Fortunately I am only glueing the SV vents to the fuse but after two days,
>it's like it is not setting.
>
>How much time is required for a tacky skin to form.
>
>John G
>
>Greatful for not doing the fuel tanks.
>
>
>--
>6:50 PM
>
>
--
6:50 PM
Message 26
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|
A tip for thorough mixing is to use a tap in a cordless drill, then
insert into the handle. Next best thing to machine mixing and will
ensure a good setup. I do recall encountering the same long setup time
when I attached my vents. I attributed it to my garage being cold at
the time. That's been a while ago and I am certain they're not going to
come off easily.
Brian
#40308
http://www.mykitlog.com/rv10builder
Message 27
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I don't remember the origional post on Proseal cure but I have spoken to THE
lab at Flamemaster. The company who makes the stuff. The cure time is 48
hours at 77 degrees, then add 2 hours for each degree below 77 for a total
cure time.
Tad Sargent
7A and building a 10
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rene Felker" <rene@felker.com>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 3:18 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Pro seal
>
> My 2 cents. Proseal needs to be mixed with the correct ratio or it will
> not
> properly set. If I remember correctly, the set time on the stuff Vans
> sells
> in the tubes is 30 Minutes, the can 2 hours. I think you did not get the
> correct mix.
>
> What color was it after you mixed it....black....grey......white....
>
> Rene' Felker
> 40322
> N423CF
> 801-721-6080
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 12:21 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Pro seal
>
>
> If it is not cured after 2 days, I wonder if the catalyst didn't get mixed
> well enough and possibly that part didn't get enough if any. I used one
> or
> two of those tubes and they started skinning within 30 minutes if I
> remember
> correctly. The stuff in the cans seems to take longer to cure, but always
> seems to cure overnight. I have never seen any that takes 2 days to cure.
> I would recommend removing the vents if they will come off, cleaning the
> stuff off of them and trying it again with a new batch. I remember the
> directions were not very easy to understand, but it seemed to work fine
> for
> me.
>
> Do not archive.
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> jesse@saintaviation.com
> www.saintaviation.com
> Cell: 352-427-0285
> Fax: 815-377-3694
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 1:43 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Pro seal
>
>
> I used some proseal from Van's which was sold in the caulking tube style
> system.
>
> I read the instructions several times and for the life of me without any
> pictures, the directions made aboslutley no sense to me. I ended up
> shooting the catalyst tube into the main product tube and then expelling
> it
> out and hand mixing.
>
> The question is how long does it take before a skin starts forming on the
> product. WHEN i DID THE trailing edges I left everthing for five days.
>
> Fortunately I am only glueing the SV vents to the fuse but after two days,
> it's like it is not setting.
>
> How much time is required for a tacky skin to form.
>
> John G
>
> Greatful for not doing the fuel tanks.
>
>
> --
> 6:50 PM
>
>
>
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: Happy Anniversary Tim! |
Be careful what you ask for. Knowing Tim he will wright a 100 page
dissertation. :-)
Happy Anniversary Tim. Someone remembered.
Larry Rosen
do not archive
Pascal wrote:
> Tim;
> Been a year since that first flight. Happy Anniversary!
> How about a year in review and what you've learned since that first
> flight?
> Pascal
> *
> *
Message 29
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First, happy one year Tim and secondly, I received the extensions today.
Tell those great little helpers you have that the box making and packaging
job was great.
Rick Leach
Message 30
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Tim,
Got mine today too. Looks good. Thanks to you and your family for all the help!!!
Expertly packaged....ESD Bubble Wrap and Peanuts.
What was the number three written on my box? Is that my serial number? Am I now
40225-3?
Thanks,
Sean Blair
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Rick Leach" <papadaddyo@tampabay.rr.com>
First, happy one year Tim and secondly, I received the extensions today. Tell
those great little helpers you have that the box making and packaging job was
great.
Rick Leach
<html><body>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Tim,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Got mine today too. Looks good. Thanks to you and your family
for all the help!!! Expertly packaged....ESD Bubble Wrap and Peanuts.
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>What was the number three written on my box? Is that my serial number?
Am I now 40225-3?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Sean Blair </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Rick Leach"
<papadaddyo@tampabay.rr.com> <BR>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial">First, happy one year Tim and secondly, I received the extensions
today. Tell those great little helpers you have that the box making and
packaging job was great.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial">Rick Leach</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV><PRE><B><FONT face="courier new,courier"
size=2 color000000?>
</B></FONT></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>
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</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 31
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Predator, indeed.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of SteinAir, Inc.
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 3:53 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: unbelievable!!!
Wow....I can't believe all the banter about these planes from literally
everyone who has little to NO knowledge themselves. It seems even Jims
"understanding" is just flat wrong. The facts are:
Predator Aviation was building a custom plane called the "Kymera 750" (aka
an RV-10 with a 700+somethingth hp engine) and also the Kymera 440.
They Kymera "750" was priced/sold around $300K and the "440" was around
$200K.
They had to call them a new plane, because Predator Aviation themselves got
in trouble selling/advertising turnkey RV-10's (The FAA got in the middle of
it some time ago).
Predator Aviation/Chris Opperman sold TWO "Kymera 750's or 440's" to
individuals who BOTH paid a LOT of money (we're talking hundreds of
thousands of $$'s here).
Incidentally, both of the buyers / customers are doctors - I know one of
them very well and just met the other after this whole debacle. I was
building the panel for one of the customers and the other was being built by
Predator (supposedly).
Chris ordered avionis from me for "both" planes.
Predator Aviation constantly send updates to both "customers" complete with
pictures, progress reports, etc.. on BOTH planes.
Both customers truly believed that each of them was having a plane built by
Opperman and relied on his "progress reports" of newly clecoed together
pieces as proof of progress.
Both customers previous to his "death" last year did not know each other.
Both customers didn't spend time on site.
Both customers found out after Oppermans death that in fact there was only
ONE airplane, and an incomplete one at that.
Both customers fought over who's plane it was (since both of them had paid a
LOT OF $$'s for their plane).
The "Kymera 750 or 440" was promised to be a super fast, super structurally
modified (Chris told me many times personally about all his "engineering"
modifications to the airplane that made it so different from an RV-10).
Quote from their sales brochure says "Airframe Reinforced for high payload".
This whole thing was/is a bloody mess with both guys losing a ton of money.
Look at the Predator Aviation website if you want the details. They claimed:
274mph cruise, 2400 nm range, 1850lb usefull load, 120gal fuel capacity and
750+ hp turbocharged engine.
The only sad thing here is that the current owner of the kit was so ignorant
(who in the world honestly thinks that plane is even remotely done). The
fact is there is about 2% of work done on that plane.....I don't think the
guy is stupid, just one of the most ignorant people I've ever met. Who
thinks they have 9" GRT displays, or a 92" prop, or an 80% completed
airplane that's barely unpacked from the crate?!?!?!? I feel bad for anyone
that now falls for those lies or plain ignorance (I don't know which), just
like the original two owners fell for Oppermans lies.
As far as picking on a Dead Guy, well.....it turns out he wasn't the most
ethical, moral, or honest person in the world when it came to customers and
business. We all may wonder how in the world people get involved in things
like that, and at the time of his supposed death when I found out all the
nasty details from both customers I thought - - "Who would send that much
money without getting anything back, etc.. or checking in constantly".
Then, I find myself losing hundreds of thousands of $$'s myself in the
middle of this D2A/Chelton debacle and I see how easy it is to end up on the
receiving end of bad deals.
Just my 2 cents as usual! Sorry if anyone gets offended, but it seems like
I've seen lots banter here with little to no first hand knowledge of the
situation.
Cheers,
Stein.
P.S., I've attached a copy of their sales brochure (if it makes it) for your
review. Chris actually thought I'd be crazy enough to try and "resell"
these things for him...!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
lessdragprod@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: unbelievable!!!
I certainly like to see how easy it is for some people WITHOUT ANY APPARRENT
KNOWLWDGE OF A PROJECT to be critical of another persons dream.
It's my understanding that the builder who had this RV-10 dream machine died
of a sudden heart attack.
I like your style of picking on a dead guy. NOT.
Jim Ayers
Message 32
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Ditto to both of those.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Leach
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 8:59 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Extensions
First, happy one year Tim and secondly, I received the extensions today.
Tell those great little helpers you have that the box making and packaging
job was great.
Rick Leach
Message 33
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Anybody know any details of the -10 for sale on controller
(http://www.controller.com/listings/forsale/detail.asp?ohid=1115550)?
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Happy Anniversary Tim! |
Thanks guys, it's pretty cool that my online family would remember.
My at-home family just kind of let it blow by....although it was
on MY mind quite a bit today.
Larry, I'll try to prove I can keep it to less than even 10 pages. ;)
In the last year, I've come to basically realize my dreams of what I
had hoped my RV-10 would be. It performs every bit as I had hoped,
and actually better, because I "discovered" Lean-of-peak operation.
(I knew a bunch about it before, but never had an acceptably smooth
engine with which to fly that way) With the performance and economy,
it really is the perfect plane for someone like me...a halfway
limited budget, and a love for x/c travel.
It's proved to have the space I needed to haul the family. It's
proved to be fairly trouble free in operation with only minor
exceptions. I'm about to embark on my first yearly inspection,
and I'll report any out of the ordinary happenings as I get into that.
With nearly 200 hours now, it's also been a real personally fulfilling
time seeing the avionics all work the way they should. I know some
people probably cringe to hear it because I talk about it so much, but
I REALLY love those Chelton screens and basically the whole panel
layout and function. I know it was a pretty crappy ending to 2006
with the D2A debacle, but if it weren't for seeing so many people
hurt by a couple of bast@ards I could say that I'm fully satisfied with
that choice. As it stands, I'm very satisfied with how the
equipment is working out, but I surely understand others who are
left with some ill feelings. There is a lot of function there that
I never dreamed I would/could own, and it amazes me every time I fly.
As far as disappointments, one of the larger ones is that I wish I
would have added rudder trim during original construction. I also
wish I would have installed my CO monitor from the start, and
would have put my 2 larger defrost fans in during initial
construction. I know people recently were talking about how you
should think about keeping your IFR panel trimmed down and build
it up later, but I REALLY hate rework on things like that, and
I find it very inconvenient. In my opinion, you should try to
save and pay for the entire airframe and engine, and add up some
extra bucks for all the trimmings and finishings....THEN start
calculating your panel....and do it right the first time. Sure,
you can cut $20,000 out in the initial build, but if your intention
is to have that equipment some day, you're probably just going to
feel disappointed that you didn't do it right away anyway. If
someone can afford to throw $140K into a kit plane, then throwing
$160K into it just means they have to save a little longer before
they are done. Ain't no po-folk building RV-10's....but there's
plenty po-folk who've built them. ;)
Pascal, there's definitely a lot to learn once you start flying
your plane, but I'd say that if there's one thing that stands
out that I've learned through this, it's this:
I've learned that the RV-10 is a very worth plane, which has
attracted a very special and very friendly group of individuals.
And I've learned that the individuals within this group, are
a huge part of what makes the experience so wonderful. Hopefully
everyone who's building will develop some of these long-term
friendships, as it greatly enhances your life. Without the
community, building the RV-10 would be a far less fulfilling
experience.
Thanks guys, it really is great to hear that someone besides
me was thinking of the day today.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Larry Rosen wrote:
>
> Be careful what you ask for. Knowing Tim he will wright a 100 page
> dissertation. :-)
>
> Happy Anniversary Tim. Someone remembered.
>
> Larry Rosen
> do not archive
>
> Pascal wrote:
>> Tim;
>> Been a year since that first flight. Happy Anniversary!
>> How about a year in review and what you've learned since that first
>> flight?
>> Pascal
>> *
>> *
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve- REDUX |
Hi Daniel,
yes, the SafeAir one seems to have a plug with a streamer attached, my
DIY one has a CCA-1550 <http://curtissuperiorvalve.com/pipethread.html>
which you push and turn to lock open (not visible in my last picture as
it it protruding on the bottom of my panel (below the alum. angle visible)).
br Werner
Lloyd, Daniel R. wrote:
>
> It is basically the same thing, breaking the static air line, just one
> comes with a streamer to pull, or am I missing something?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> LarryRosen@comcast.net
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 12:32 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve- REDUX
>
> Safe Air 1 has a kit <www.safeair1.com>
> But, I like Werner's approach better.
>
> Larry Rosen
> #356
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
>
>> Hi Richard,
>>
>> hopefully attached, what I did (on a Glastar) a Curtis Drain Valve
>> CCA-1550 together with a T and two elbows to fit the static line.
>>
>> And I did an inflight check, error is 4 KIAS to high indication.
>>
>> Werner
>>
>> Richard Reynolds wrote:
>>
>>> OK,I 'm sorry, apologize, etc.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have a source or suggestion for the alternate air valve
>>> for superior crafted OBAM planes?
>>>
>>> Does anyone have a source or suggestion for the alternate air valve
>>> like the "real" planes have?
>>>
>>> Richard Reynolds
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>
>
>
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