Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:08 AM - Re: Fuel Tank Question (Rob Kermanj)
2. 04:19 AM - Re: Fuel Tank Question (tadsargent)
3. 04:20 AM - Re: Fuel Tank Question (Rob Kermanj)
4. 06:37 AM - Re: Oil access pannelOil access pannel (Wayne Edgerton)
5. 06:40 AM - Re: Camlocs (was Oil access pannel) (Wayne Edgerton)
6. 07:10 AM - Re: Oil access panel (Perry Casson-home)
7. 07:17 AM - Re: Camlocs (was Oil access pannel) (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
8. 07:33 AM - Re: Re: Camlocs (was Oil access pannel) ()
9. 07:34 AM - Re: Fuel Tank Question (Niko)
10. 07:37 AM - Re: Oil access pannel (Niko)
11. 08:04 AM - Re: Fuel Tank Question (Vern W. Smith)
12. 11:08 AM - Fuel Guardian (Chris Johnston)
13. 11:30 AM - SS fastener galling (John Ackerman)
14. 11:59 AM - Re: SS fastener galling (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
15. 02:11 PM - 51% Committee Meeting (John W. Cox)
16. 04:37 PM - infinity grips ()
17. 05:24 PM - Re: infinity grips (Jesse Saint)
18. 06:06 PM - Re: SS fastener galling (John Ackerman)
19. 06:06 PM - Re: infinity grips (GenGrumpy@aol.com)
20. 06:28 PM - Re: infinity grips (Tim Olson)
21. 07:26 PM - CAD Drawings (Jesse Saint)
22. 07:37 PM - Re: infinity grips (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
23. 08:22 PM - Re: CAD Drawings ()
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Question |
You could also use a serrated putty knife.
do not archive.
On Feb 15, 2007, at 10:38 PM, John W. Cox wrote:
> Correction from the field. Do not use a metallic putty knife to
> clean proseal. A stress riser is introduced which begins cracking
> of the skin material.
>
>
> It is an automatic termination offence at work if you are caught
> with any metallic screwdriver, razor knife or putty knife with
> Proseal. We use a beveled fiberglas reinforced plastic hand
> scrapper. Wear a glove so you don=92t ramp the other end into the
> palm of your hand.
>
>
> Proseal is used like Greek Windex=85 everywhere for just about
> everything.
>
>
> John Cox
>
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vern W. Smith
> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:52 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Tank Question
>
>
> When I built my tanks I called Van=92s and talked with them about the
> pros and cons of the different way of sealing the senders. It was
> suggested to use proseal only. I asked about the concern of having
> to replace a sender unit and was told it=92s not a problem just use a
> putty knife and clean to residue off. Then install the new sender
> unit and reseal it.
>
>
> Pulling a tank to replace a sender unit sound like a lot of work,
> but to remove a tank because a gasket leaked would be down right
> frustrating.
>
>
> Vern Smith (#324)
>
> Do not archive
>
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf OfDave & Brenda Emond
> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 11:46 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Tank Question
>
>
> I would advise regular checks of the gaskets, should you choose to
> go the route of gaskets only. I would hate anyone to suffer the
> problems I experienced. The gaskets appeared to react with the fuel
> and swelled.
>
>
> I originally decided against proseal, and went with gaskets only.
> After developing fuel leaks on both tanks, I have subsequently
> removed the gaskets and have used proseal on both sender units.
> Proseal does provide a more permanent fix, with less chance of a
> fuel leak.
>
>
> Dave Emond
>
> 40159
>
> Flying
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
List
> ========================
> ========================
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Question |
What is the source of this, I would like to hear more about how this
could happen.
Thanks
Tad
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Kermanj
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 7:05 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Tank Question
You could also use a serrated putty knife.
do not archive.
On Feb 15, 2007, at 10:38 PM, John W. Cox wrote:
Correction from the field. Do not use a metallic putty knife to
clean proseal. A stress riser is introduced which begins cracking of
the skin material.
It is an automatic termination offence at work if you are caught
with any metallic screwdriver, razor knife or putty knife with Proseal.
We use a beveled fiberglas reinforced plastic hand scrapper. Wear a
glove so you don=92t ramp the other end into the palm of your hand.
Proseal is used like Greek Windex=85 everywhere for just about
everything.
John Cox
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vern W. Smith
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:52 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Tank Question
When I built my tanks I called Van=92s and talked with them about
the pros and cons of the different way of sealing the senders. It was
suggested to use proseal only. I asked about the concern of having to
replace a sender unit and was told it=92s not a problem just use a putty
knife and clean to residue off. Then install the new sender unit and
reseal it.
Pulling a tank to replace a sender unit sound like a lot of work,
but to remove a tank because a gasket leaked would be down right
frustrating.
Vern Smith (#324)
Do not archive
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf OfDave & Brenda
Emond
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 11:46 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Tank Question
I would advise regular checks of the gaskets, should you choose to
go the route of gaskets only. I would hate anyone to suffer the problems
I experienced. The gaskets appeared to react with the fuel and swelled.
I originally decided against proseal, and went with gaskets only.
After developing fuel leaks on both tanks, I have subsequently removed
the gaskets and have used proseal on both sender units. Proseal does
provide a more permanent fix, with less chance of a fuel leak.
Dave Emond
40159
Flying
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
- The RV10-List Email Forum - class="Apple-converted-space">
--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List - NEW
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - class="Apple-converted-space"> -->
http://forums.matronics.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Question |
I meant to say that you could also use a serrated plastic party knife.
do not archive.
On Feb 16, 2007, at 7:05 AM, Rob Kermanj wrote:
> You could also use a serrated putty knife.
>
> do not archive.
>
> On Feb 15, 2007, at 10:38 PM, John W. Cox wrote:
>
>> Correction from the field. Do not use a metallic putty knife to
>> clean proseal. A stress riser is introduced which begins cracking
>> of the skin material.
>>
>>
>> It is an automatic termination offence at work if you are caught
>> with any metallic screwdriver, razor knife or putty knife with
>> Proseal. We use a beveled fiberglas reinforced plastic hand
>> scrapper. Wear a glove so you don=92t ramp the other end into the
>> palm of your hand.
>>
>>
>> Proseal is used like Greek Windex=85 everywhere for just about
>> everything.
>>
>>
>> John Cox
>>
>>
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
>> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vern W. Smith
>> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:52 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Tank Question
>>
>>
>> When I built my tanks I called Van=92s and talked with them about
>> the pros and cons of the different way of sealing the senders. It
>> was suggested to use proseal only. I asked about the concern of
>> having to replace a sender unit and was told it=92s not a problem
>> just use a putty knife and clean to residue off. Then install the
>> new sender unit and reseal it.
>>
>>
>> Pulling a tank to replace a sender unit sound like a lot of work,
>> but to remove a tank because a gasket leaked would be down right
>> frustrating.
>>
>>
>> Vern Smith (#324)
>>
>> Do not archive
>>
>>
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
>> server@matronics.com] On Behalf OfDave & Brenda Emond
>> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 11:46 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Tank Question
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I would advise regular checks of the gaskets, should you choose to
>> go the route of gaskets only. I would hate anyone to suffer the
>> problems I experienced. The gaskets appeared to react with the
>> fuel and swelled.
>>
>>
>> I originally decided against proseal, and went with gaskets only.
>> After developing fuel leaks on both tanks, I have subsequently
>> removed the gaskets and have used proseal on both sender units.
>> Proseal does provide a more permanent fix, with less chance of a
>> fuel leak.
>>
>>
>> Dave Emond
>>
>> 40159
>>
>> Flying
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>
>> - The RV10-List Email Forum - class="Apple-converted-
>> space"> --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-
>> List - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - class="Apple-
>> converted-space"> --> http://forums.matronics.com
>>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Oil access pannelOil access pannel |
I also installed the Sky Bolt cam locks and I just looked up the invoice
for them. They have an RV10 kit that I bought and it was 438.68. But
because of the spacing I used I had to buy more cam locks. That was
another $132. I also had to buy a com lock tool for about $50. So that
adds up to about $620 total.
I like I how they turned out also. But time will tell how it works out.
These are adjustable cam locks so as they become loose over time you can
tighten them up.
Wayne Edgerton #40336
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Camlocs (was Oil access pannel) |
If any of you want photos of the cam lock install just let me know and I
can forward them to you.
Wayne Edgerton #40336
Message 6
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| Subject: | Oil access panel |
This hinge with a pair or Hartwell latches looks pretty nice:
http://www.justrvparts.com/Oil%20Door%20Hidden%20Hinge.htm
Perry Casson
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
Of Paul Walter
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 11:33 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Oil access pannel
Some time back there was a post that told where onecould purchase a flush moumted
Cessna type latch
for the oil access panel. Would you please give me details of the provider.
Thank you
P.Walter
Message 7
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| Subject: | Camlocs (was Oil access pannel) |
I would like them and I am sure many others would too. Can you send them
to Tim and he can post them under the mods section?
Tim is this good?
Dan
N289DT
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
Edgerton
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Camlocs (was Oil access pannel)
If any of you want photos of the cam lock install just let me know and I
can forward them to you.
Wayne Edgerton #40336
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Camlocs (was Oil access pannel) |
I would like to see the pics. Did you use hinges on one side and camlocks? Jim
>
> From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR@wernerco.com>
> Date: 2007/02/16 Fri AM 10:17:08 EST
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Camlocs (was Oil access pannel)
>
> I would like them and I am sure many others would too. Can you send them
> to Tim and he can post them under the mods section?
> Tim is this good?
> Dan
> N289DT
>
> _____
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
> Edgerton
> Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 9:40 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Camlocs (was Oil access pannel)
>
>
> If any of you want photos of the cam lock install just let me know and I
> can forward them to you.
>
> Wayne Edgerton #40336
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Question |
It's nothing particular to proseal. Using sharp metal tools results in scr
atches which are stress risers thus this results in more work, At a minimu
m the scratches have to be removed, if they are deep a repair might have to
be incorporated.=0A=0ANiko=0A40188=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AF
rom: tadsargent <tadsargent@bellsouth.net>=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.com=0A
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 7:18:25 AM=0ASubject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel T
ank Question=0A=0A=0AWhat is the source of this, I would like to hear more
about how this could happen.=0AThanks=0ATad=0A----- Original Message -----
=0AFrom: Rob Kermanj =0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Friday, Febru
ary 16, 2007 7:05 AM=0ASubject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Tank Question=0A=0A=0AY
ou could also use a serrated putty knife. =0A=0A=0Ado not archive.=0A=0A=0A
On Feb 15, 2007, at 10:38 PM, John W. Cox wrote:=0A=0A=0ACorrection from th
e field. Do not use a metallic putty knife to clean proseal. A stress ris
er is introduced which begins cracking of the skin material.=0A=0A =0AIt is
an automatic termination offence at work if you are caught with any metall
ic screwdriver, razor knife or putty knife with Proseal. We use a beveled
fiberglas reinforced plastic hand scrapper. Wear a glove so you don=92t ra
mp the other end into the palm of your hand.=0A=0A =0AProseal is used like
Greek Windex=85 everywhere for just about everything.=0A=0A =0AJohn Cox =0A
=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-
list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vern W. Smith=0ASent: Thursday, Feb
ruary 15, 2007 1:52 PM=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: RV10-Li
st: Fuel Tank Question=0A=0A =0AWhen I built my tanks I called Van=92s and
talked with them about the pros and cons of the different way of sealing th
e senders. It was suggested to use proseal only. I asked about the concern
of having to replace a sender unit and was told it=92s not a problem just u
se a putty knife and clean to residue off. Then install the new sender unit
and reseal it.=0A=0A =0APulling a tank to replace a sender unit sound like
a lot of work, but to remove a tank because a gasket leaked would be down
right frustrating.=0A=0A =0AVern Smith (#324)=0ADo not archive=0A=0A =0A=0A
=0A=0AFrom: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-se
rver@matronics.com] On Behalf OfDave & Brenda Emond=0ASent: Thursday, Febru
ary 15, 2007 11:46 AM=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: RV10-Lis
t: Fuel Tank Question=0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0AI would advise regular
checks of the gaskets, should you choose to go the route of gaskets only. I
would hate anyone to suffer the problems I experienced. The gaskets appear
ed to react with the fuel and swelled.=0A=0A =0AI originally decided agains
t proseal, and went with gaskets only. After developing fuel leaks on both
tanks, I have subsequently removed the gaskets and have used proseal on bot
h sender units. Proseal does provide a more permanent fix, with less chance
of a fuel leak.=0A=0A =0ADave Emond=0A40159=0AFlying=0A=0A =0A=0A =0A =0A
=0A =0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List=0A http://forums.matron
ics.com=0A http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matr
onics.com =0A - The RV10-List Email Forum - class="Apple-converte
d-space"> --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List - N
EW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - class="Apple-converted-space"> --> http://fo
rums.matronics.com=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List=0Ahref="ht
=====================
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Oil access pannel |
Thanks Mark,=0A =0ANice job.=0A =0ANiko=0ADo not archive=0A=0A=0A----- Orig
inal Message ----=0AFrom: Mark Ritter <mritter509@msn.com>=0ATo: rv10-list@
matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 8:07:48 PM=0ASubject: Re:
RV10-List: Oil access pannel=0A=0A=0ANiko,=0A=0AThis is the best I can com
e up tonight. I used 1 3/4" .063 strip around the =0Afuse to mount the cam
loc recepticles. I believe you could use .050 which =0Awould bend around t
he curves much easier. The cutouts between the =0Arecepticles reduce weigh
t and make bending the tabs down to fit the slope of =0Athe cowling much ea
sier.=0A=0AMark=0AN410MR=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A>From: Niko <owl40188@yahoo.com>=0A>
: Re: RV10-List: Oil access pannel=0A>Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 14:47:22 -0800
(PST)=0A>=0A>Mark,=0A>=0A>Do you have any pictures of your mounting you ca
n share with the group?=0A>=0A>Niko=0A>40188=0A>=0A>=0A>----- Original Mess
age ----=0A>From: Mark Ritter <mritter509@msn.com>=0A>To: rv10-list@matroni
cs.com=0A>Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 4:54:28 PM=0A>Subject: Re: RV10
Ritter" <mritter509@msn.com>=0A>=0A>I used the Skybolt camlocs around the f
uselage to avoid having to push the=0A>piano wire around the curves and pia
no hinges between the upper and lower=0A>cowls. The camlocs worked great.
=0A>=0A>Mark=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> >From: Niko <owl40188@yahoo.com>=0A> >Repl
y-To: rv10-list@matronics.com=0A> >To: rv10-list@matronics.com=0A> >Subject
: Re: RV10-List: Oil access pannel=0A> >Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 12:35:18 -08
00 (PST)=0A> >=0A> >I noticed Skybolt has a camloc set for the RV10 cowl.
Has anyone =0A>installed=0A> >these? Do they work well?=0A> >=0A> >Niko=0A
> >40188=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >----- Original Message ----=0A> >From: Mark Ritte
r <mritter509@msn.com>=0A> >To: rv10-list@matronics.com=0A> >Sent: Thursday
, February 15, 2007 12:25:07 PM=0A> >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Oil access pan
r509@msn.com>=0A> >=0A> >Skybolt camlocs work well.=0A> >=0A> >Mark=0A> >
=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=0A> > >From: Michael Schipper <mike@learningplanet.com>
m=0A> > >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Oil access pannel=0A> > >Date: Thu, 15 Feb
2007 10:25:19 -0600=0A> > >=0A> > >Paul,=0A> > >=0A> > >If you are referri
ng to the Hartwell latches, you can get them from=0A> >Wicks:=0A> > >=0A> >
>http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=1456/=0A> >i
ndex.html=0A> > >=0A> > >Mike Schipper=0A> > >#40576 - Tanks - www.rvten.co
m=0A> > >=0A> > >=0A> > >=0A> > >On Feb 14, 2007, at 11:33 PM, Paul Walter
wrote:=0A> > >=0A> > >>Some time back there was a post that told where onec
ould purchase a=0A> > >>flush moumted Cessna type latch for the oil acces
s panel. Would you=0A> > >>please give me details of the provider.=0A> > >
>=0A> > >>Thank you=0A> > >>=0A> > >>P.Walter=0A> > >>=0A> > >>http://www.m
atronic=0A> >______________________________________________________________
___=0A> >FREE online classifieds from Windows Live Expo ' buy and se=
==========0A>=0A>________________________________________
_________________________=0A>Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your frie
nds list with W=========0A=0A______________________________
___________________________________=0AWant a degree but can't afford to qui
t? Top school degrees online - in as =0Afast as 1 year =0Ahttp://forms.next
ag.com/goto.jsp?url=/serv/main/buyer/education.jsp?doSearch=n&tm=y&se
arch=education_text_links_88_h288c&s=4079&p=5116
Message 11
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| Subject: | Fuel Tank Question |
Two problems come to mind first if the aluminum sheet is scratched it
sets up an area where stresses are concentrated and can (will?) result
in a crack. This is why scratches must be blended into the surrounding
area. You can read more about this in the book "Acceptable Methods,
Techniques, and Practices: Aircraft Inspection and Repair, Aircraft
Alterations Ac 43.13."
Second if the tool is a dissimilar metal it can leave tiny partials
behind and setup small galvanic cells that promote corrosion. This is
why one should never use steel wool on aluminum.
Sorry about any miss leading advice. I should have though through what I
was told before passing it on.
I think I will now go remove my foot from my mouth:)
Vern Smith
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of tadsargent
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 4:18 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Tank Question
What is the source of this, I would like to hear more about how this
could happen.
Thanks
Tad
On Feb 15, 2007, at 10:38 PM, John W. Cox wrote:
Correction from the field. Do not use a metallic putty knife to
clean proseal. A stress riser is introduced which begins cracking of
the skin material.
It is an automatic termination offence at work if you are caught
with any metallic screwdriver, razor knife or putty knife with Proseal.
We use a beveled fiberglas reinforced plastic hand scrapper. Wear a
glove so you don't ramp the other end into the palm of your hand.
Proseal is used like Greek Windex... everywhere for just about
everything.
John Cox
_____
When I built my tanks I called Van's and talked with them about
the pros and cons of the different way of sealing the senders. It was
suggested to use proseal only. I asked about the concern of having to
replace a sender unit and was told it's not a problem just use a putty
knife and clean to residue off. Then install the new sender unit and
reseal it.
Pulling a tank to replace a sender unit sound like a lot of
work, but to remove a tank because a gasket leaked would be down right
frustrating.
Vern Smith (#324)
Do not archive
Message 12
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Hey Scott -
I kept meaning to ask you how your fuel guardian is working for you. do
you like it? does it really go off where you thought it would? I think
it was 5.5 gallons right? Just wondering cause I copied your install...
also, I got a question from another builder about the install, and I
couldn't seem to find the page where you explained it. is that still
up? Inquiring minds want to know!
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
Message 13
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| Subject: | SS fastener galling |
I want to install a magnetometer shelf behind the baggage
compartment , bolting it to the longerons with AN3 hardware.
I ordered the appropriate stainless steel bolts, nuts, and washers;
placed the first set in the first hole, and began tightening. The nut
tightened up early, long before reaching the end of the threads, and
could not be backed off. I finally had to twist hard enough to shear
the bolt in order to remove it.
Experimenting with a SS bolt held in the shop vise gave the same
result - the nut "galled" on the bolt and froze solid. I could not
remove the nut except by shearing the bolt. I didn't tighten
particularly fast, either, so although there was some friction
heating, it was not abnormal. Substituting a regular steel AN365 nut
solved the problem - it behaved perfectly normally. Likewise,
substituting a steel AN3 bolt for the SS bolt and using a stainless
nut gave no problem. A generous coat of Boelube solid wax lubricant
allowed the stainless nut and bolt to work together.
Now "everybody" in my previous life (high temperature chemical and
electrochemical technology) knew better than to use stainless-on-
stainless threaded fasteners because of this very same galling
phenomenon, but it just did not occur to me that it would be a
problem, especially at room temperature. Talk about forgetting
lessons learned!
Solution: use a steel AN365 nut and accept the miniscule magnetic
field it causes. BTW, the nut wighs about 2 g and the bolt about 4
g. I'm thinking that there's not any significant dissimilar metal
corrosion problem - the difference is much smaller than steel vs
aluminum.
Boelube would work for the first few SS-on-SS assembly/disassembly
cycles, but it could conceivably dry out or be removed by repeated
assembly and disassembly and lose its protective film. Somebody else
down the line could also use new SS hardware and not know...
FWIW
John Ackerman 40458
Message 14
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| Subject: | SS fastener galling |
Any chance you got a nut with a different thread count per inch than the
bolt? I personally have never run across this before and it sounds very
odd. I have used the Lowes Depot variety of SS nuts and bolts together
tons of times with no problems. Maybe they just have a bit more "slop"
than what you are using.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Limbo
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Ackerman
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 1:28 PM
Subject: RV10-List: SS fastener galling
I want to install a magnetometer shelf behind the baggage
compartment , bolting it to the longerons with AN3 hardware.
I ordered the appropriate stainless steel bolts, nuts, and washers;
placed the first set in the first hole, and began tightening. The nut
tightened up early, long before reaching the end of the threads, and
could not be backed off. I finally had to twist hard enough to shear
the bolt in order to remove it.
Experimenting with a SS bolt held in the shop vise gave the same
result - the nut "galled" on the bolt and froze solid. I could not
remove the nut except by shearing the bolt. I didn't tighten
particularly fast, either, so although there was some friction
heating, it was not abnormal. Substituting a regular steel AN365 nut
solved the problem - it behaved perfectly normally. Likewise,
substituting a steel AN3 bolt for the SS bolt and using a stainless
nut gave no problem. A generous coat of Boelube solid wax lubricant
allowed the stainless nut and bolt to work together.
Now "everybody" in my previous life (high temperature chemical and
electrochemical technology) knew better than to use stainless-on-
stainless threaded fasteners because of this very same galling
phenomenon, but it just did not occur to me that it would be a
problem, especially at room temperature. Talk about forgetting
lessons learned!
Solution: use a steel AN365 nut and accept the miniscule magnetic
field it causes. BTW, the nut wighs about 2 g and the bolt about 4
g. I'm thinking that there's not any significant dissimilar metal
corrosion problem - the difference is much smaller than steel vs
aluminum.
Boelube would work for the first few SS-on-SS assembly/disassembly
cycles, but it could conceivably dry out or be removed by repeated
assembly and disassembly and lose its protective film. Somebody else
down the line could also use new SS hardware and not know...
FWIW
John Ackerman 40458
Message 15
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| Subject: | 51% Committee Meeting |
Due to Presidents Day next Monday, the 51% Committee convened by FAA
order 1110.143, is being held in Bend, OR at the offices of Epic LT on
Tuesday, February 27th and again on Wednesday, February 28th.
Out of courtesy to those RV-10 builders who do not find the outcome of
importance on this list, Please email me direct if you have further
interest in hearing of the resolution of rewriting this archaic
regulation which has allowed mass production by individual builders.
Just make the Subject Line - 51% Project. I can take it offline like it
has been handled by the previous two meetings.
John Cox
Legislative Affairs - Oregon Pilots Association
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 2:35 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: unbelievable!!!
Other than an EAA rep, and several FAA reps, there is Dave Saylor who is
one of the few true builders, (non kit manufacturers). Dave has asked
on this list for your opinions and posted his address so you could keep
informed. At least the wolves only go after the weakest hens when
guarding the roost. Now when was the last time VAN, or Joe or Rick
asked what builders wanted to protect the builder's interests with this
unique pursuit. I think they just might already know what is in their
own self-interests and they believe that is in ours as well.
FAA Order 1110.143 dated 07/26/2006 National ARC Policy - Amateur-Built
initiated by AIR-230
Frank Paskiewicz FAA Manager
Earl Lawrence, EAA Vice President of Industry - (Co Chairman)
Richard Van Grunsven - VANS Aircraft (Co-Chairman)
engineering2@vansaircraft.com
Rick Schrameck - Epic LT rickschrameck@cox.net
David Saylor - AirCrafters Dave@airCraftersLLC.com
Joe Bartels - Lancair International JoeB@lancair.com
The condition of the kit manufacturers is quite healthy, Thank you for
asking. Sales are brisk.
Each of you should already know who is on the panel, what is being
discussed and what they are proposing. Or just sleep tight tonight cause
the roost is well guarded.
Wouldn't it be cute to have a custom EAA dash plate which read "The
majority of construction of this aircraft you are about to fly in has
been built by individuals I have no knowledge of from an unidentified
country other than the US of A."
John Cox
#40600
Do not archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel
R.
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 6:42 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: unbelievable!!!
SO here is a thought on this, how can the FAA be expected to review the
employment condition of every person that applies for an airworthiness
certificate? We all complain about how much oversight they have now, and
the associated costs. You want to see fee's go through the roof, add an
additional administrative overhead to the process and see how much more
money it costs us, and how much additional time will be added to the
review/paperwork process?
Not saying the system does not need to be re-worked, but we need to
figure out how to fix it, and I personally do not think that by having
vendors on the committee, we the builders are being looked out for.
I would like to ask John Cox who else is on the panel, and who is
representing "all of us?" those with the money who vote?
Dan
N289DT
Message 16
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I have purchased the Infinity grips for my RV-10. The guy who is helping build
it is a retired airline pilot. He has a concern that there is so much stuff
on the grip that more could go wrong and ergonomics such as moving the hat for
trim is awkward. Advised to go with simple wood grips with Push to talk and
auto-pilot disconnect only. He knows alot more than I do about flying. Recommendations???
Wood grip suppliers? Jim
Message 17
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Infinity is awesome. People who I know who have tried them out wouldn't
think of going back. I haven't heard anybody complain about them at all.
Just make sure to angle them towards the outside hand so it is comfortable
to hold. Trims are comfortable, everything is at your fingertips (3 trims,
flaps, PTT, A/P disc and an extra that could be boost pump through a relay -
I hook them up to cockpit lights for night flying). Wouldn't have it any
other way.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
gorejr@bellsouth.net
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 7:34 PM
Subject: RV10-List: infinity grips
I have purchased the Infinity grips for my RV-10. The guy who is helping
build it is a retired airline pilot. He has a concern that there is so much
stuff on the grip that more could go wrong and ergonomics such as moving the
hat for trim is awkward. Advised to go with simple wood grips with Push to
talk and auto-pilot disconnect only. He knows alot more than I do about
flying. Recommendations??? Wood grip suppliers? Jim
--
5:40 PM
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: SS fastener galling |
Any chance you got a nut with a different thread count per inch than the
bolt?
Very little. Several bolts and nuts were used, all were 1/4" -28tpi
(AN3, 10-32) purpose bought from ACS. Besides, thread mismatch shows
up earlier in the tightening process, and allows one to back the nut
off. Here, both nut and bolt worked fine with their carbon steel
equivalents. Finally, lubricant stopped the problem, at least
temporarily.
> I have used the Lowes Depot variety of SS nuts and bolts together
> tons of times with no problems. Maybe they just have a bit more
> "slop"
> than what you are using.
I think you're right about the "slop" in non-aviation consumer
hardware.
The galling problem occurs with other metals where the two threaded
parts are made of the same stuff, but SS is far worse than non-
stainless steel. I think it's related to the poor "machineability" of
most stainless steels - they tend to become plastic, or "gummy" under
severe localized stresses. We would almost always purposely make the
two threaded parts of different materials, or would avoid threads
entirely in favor of other connecting means where galling was a
problem. Our experience with SS galling involved equipment run at
high temperatures (350=B0-650=B0C, or about 575=B0 to 1200=B0F). in that
case, we could frequently assemble OK, but be unable to disassemble
after a heating cycle. It didn't take long for it to become SOP to
avoid stainless-on-stainless threads.
Today's experience points out that galling can be a problem at room
temperature, too.
What happens, I believe, is that drag causes heating on a
microscopic scale. The metal becomes very plastic locally, and the
two parts conform to each other and stick, causing even worse heating
on a micro scale. The whole thing gets stuck because a lot of the
gross thread area has very good contact - and excellent adhesion
because the crystal structures of both parts are essentially
identical. Backing off does not help once this positive feedback
process gets started.
A really sloppy fit leaves lots of non-adhering surface (gaps), so
the problem is not so bad. Also, appropriate lubricant or anti-seize
compound keeps the two surfaces from intimate contact.
John Ackerman
40458 fuselage
On Feb 16, 2007, at 12:56 PM, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
> <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
>
> Any chance you got a nut with a different thread count per inch
> than the
> bolt? I personally have never run across this before and it sounds
> very
> odd. I have used the Lowes Depot variety of SS nuts and bolts
> together
> tons of times with no problems. Maybe they just have a bit more
> "slop"
> than what you are using.
>
> Michael Sausen
> -10 #352 Limbo
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
> Ackerman
> Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 1:28 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: SS fastener galling
>
>
> I want to install a magnetometer shelf behind the baggage
> compartment , bolting it to the longerons with AN3 hardware.
>
> I ordered the appropriate stainless steel bolts, nuts, and washers;
> placed the first set in the first hole, and began tightening. The nut
> tightened up early, long before reaching the end of the threads, and
> could not be backed off. I finally had to twist hard enough to shear
> the bolt in order to remove it.
>
> Experimenting with a SS bolt held in the shop vise gave the same
> result - the nut "galled" on the bolt and froze solid. I could not
> remove the nut except by shearing the bolt. I didn't tighten
> particularly fast, either, so although there was some friction
> heating, it was not abnormal. Substituting a regular steel AN365 nut
> solved the problem - it behaved perfectly normally. Likewise,
> substituting a steel AN3 bolt for the SS bolt and using a stainless
> nut gave no problem. A generous coat of Boelube solid wax lubricant
> allowed the stainless nut and bolt to work together.
>
> Now "everybody" in my previous life (high temperature chemical and
> electrochemical technology) knew better than to use stainless-on-
> stainless threaded fasteners because of this very same galling
> phenomenon, but it just did not occur to me that it would be a
> problem, especially at room temperature. Talk about forgetting
> lessons learned!
>
> Solution: use a steel AN365 nut and accept the miniscule magnetic
> field it causes. BTW, the nut wighs about 2 g and the bolt about 4
> g. I'm thinking that there's not any significant dissimilar metal
> corrosion problem - the difference is much smaller than steel vs
> aluminum.
> Boelube would work for the first few SS-on-SS assembly/disassembly
> cycles, but it could conceivably dry out or be removed by repeated
> assembly and disassembly and lose its protective film. Somebody else
> down the line could also use new SS hardware and not know...
>
> FWIW
> John Ackerman 40458
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: infinity grips |
Jim,
I have them installed with specific functions set to each.
I would not trade mine for a simple PTT and autopilot disconnect any
day.......
But then again, I am biased based on my past experience.
grumpy
do not archive
In a message dated 2/16/2007 6:38:49 PM Central Standard Time,
gorejr@bellsouth.net writes:
I have purchased the Infinity grips for my RV-10. The guy who is helping
build it is a retired airline pilot. He has a concern that there is so much
stuff on the grip that more could go wrong and ergonomics such as moving the hat
for trim is awkward. Advised to go with simple wood grips with Push to talk
and auto-pilot disconnect only. He knows alot more than I do about flying.
Recommendations??? Wood grip suppliers? Jim
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: infinity grips |
Yeah, like he said... They're just fantastic. If anything,
I wish it had just one or two more switches available. Ergonomics
are just fine.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Jesse Saint wrote:
>
> Infinity is awesome. People who I know who have tried them out wouldn't
> think of going back. I haven't heard anybody complain about them at all.
> Just make sure to angle them towards the outside hand so it is comfortable
> to hold. Trims are comfortable, everything is at your fingertips (3 trims,
> flaps, PTT, A/P disc and an extra that could be boost pump through a relay -
> I hook them up to cockpit lights for night flying). Wouldn't have it any
> other way.
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> jesse@saintaviation.com
> www.saintaviation.com
> Cell: 352-427-0285
> Fax: 815-377-3694
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> gorejr@bellsouth.net
> Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 7:34 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: infinity grips
>
>
> I have purchased the Infinity grips for my RV-10. The guy who is helping
> build it is a retired airline pilot. He has a concern that there is so much
> stuff on the grip that more could go wrong and ergonomics such as moving the
> hat for trim is awkward. Advised to go with simple wood grips with Push to
> talk and auto-pilot disconnect only. He knows alot more than I do about
> flying. Recommendations??? Wood grip suppliers? Jim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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Does anybody have a link where I can download CAD drawings of common
instrument panel items, like switches, breakers and namely, the standard Mag
switch? Is there a library anyway like the Aero Electric one for electrical
drawings? By the way, I'm using TurboCAD. I do have a bunch of items that
I have drawn myself, which people are welcome to use if they need to.
Contact me offline if you need something and I will let you know if I have
it.
Thanks.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
Message 22
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It was a toss up for me, and after trying several I really liked the CH
products sticks, of course I have been using their joysticks and yokes
for many years at home game flying so I could be biased, but I love the
ones they made for me.
Dan
N289DT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
gorejr@bellsouth.net
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 7:34 PM
Subject: RV10-List: infinity grips
I have purchased the Infinity grips for my RV-10. The guy who is
helping build it is a retired airline pilot. He has a concern that
there is so much stuff on the grip that more could go wrong and
ergonomics such as moving the hat for trim is awkward. Advised to go
with simple wood grips with Push to talk and auto-pilot disconnect only.
He knows alot more than I do about flying. Recommendations??? Wood
grip suppliers? Jim
Message 23
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I hope someone has these I just have to use my calipers and the actual part.
Noel
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 8:23 PM
Subject: RV10-List: CAD Drawings
Does anybody have a link where I can download CAD drawings of common
instrument panel items, like switches, breakers and namely, the standard Mag
switch? Is there a library anyway like the Aero Electric one for electrical
drawings? By the way, I'm using TurboCAD. I do have a bunch of items that
I have drawn myself, which people are welcome to use if they need to.
Contact me offline if you need something and I will let you know if I have
it.
Thanks.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
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