Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:31 AM - Re: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing) (Werner Schneider)
2. 03:31 AM - Re: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing) (Russell Daves)
3. 04:05 AM - Re: FAA Meeting (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
4. 04:44 AM - Re: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing) (Kelly McMullen)
5. 04:57 AM - Re: Experimental Inquiry (Wayne Edgerton)
6. 05:33 AM - Re: FAA Meeting (linn Walters)
7. 06:29 AM - Re: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing) (GRANSCOTT@aol.com)
8. 07:28 AM - Re: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing) (Nick Nafsinger)
9. 07:39 AM - Re: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing) (John Gonzalez)
10. 07:40 AM - Re: Reconditioned prop (was IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing)) (Vern W. Smith)
11. 08:12 AM - Re: Reconditioned prop (was IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing)) (Jesse Saint)
12. 08:32 AM - Re: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing) (GRANSCOTT@aol.com)
13. 08:49 AM - A bit overwhelmed (Dave Leikam)
14. 09:08 AM - Re: A bit overwhelmed (Dj Merrill)
15. 09:15 AM - Re: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing) (Deems Davis)
16. 09:24 AM - Re: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing) (Chris Johnston)
17. 10:15 AM - Re: elevator control horn drilling (MauleDriver)
18. 10:38 AM - Re: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing) (Tim Olson)
19. 10:41 AM - Re: Reconditioned prop (was IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing)) (Randy DeBauw)
20. 10:52 AM - Re: A bit overwhelmed (Dave Leikam)
21. 10:55 AM - Re: Re: infant ear protectors (Cory Emberson)
22. 10:59 AM - Re: A bit overwhelmed (Vern W. Smith)
23. 11:04 AM - control horn remedy (John Gonzalez)
24. 11:08 AM - Re: A bit overwhelmed (Dj Merrill)
25. 11:09 AM - Re: Engine Mount Hole Alignment to Firewall (Niko)
26. 11:15 AM - Re: Reconditioned prop (was IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing)) (Vern W. Smith)
27. 11:18 AM - Re: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing) (Dave Leikam)
28. 11:19 AM - Re: A bit overwhelmed (Deems Davis)
29. 12:43 PM - Re: A bit overwhelmed (Jesse Saint)
30. 02:51 PM - Re: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing) (Jae Chang)
31. 03:30 PM - Re: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing) (John Jessen)
32. 03:46 PM - Re: Reconditioned prop (was IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing)) (Randy DeBauw)
33. 04:15 PM - Re: A bit overwhelmed (John Testement)
34. 06:37 PM - Re: Reconditioned prop (was IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing)) (John W. Cox)
35. 06:43 PM - Re: A bit overwhelmed (Mike Doble (Home Office))
36. 07:53 PM - Re: FAA Meeting (LarryRosen)
37. 08:07 PM - Re: A bit overwhelmed (Dave Leikam)
38. 08:17 PM - Re: Re: FAA Meeting (Jesse Saint)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing) |
Hello Dean and Jim
I only partly agree on that, I did go the cheap route with a KX-125 and
a KN75 first, then had to add a KI-106 for glideslope. Then the KX
failed shortly after 2 years, they did charge me $1200.- to fix it. The
whole setup was much more expensive then if I had gone with am SL-30
straight ahead (you find them used to (but seldom)). The SL-30 has many
nice features like 2nd com listen mode, cross reference tracking of 2nd
NAV and you can have the display of the glideslop on any Dynon EFIS.
I swapped meanwhile the King stuff with an SL-30 and I did not regret,
except that I would have saved a lot of money going that route from the
start.
br Werner
ddddsp1@juno.com wrote:
>
> Jim,
>
> Try to find someone already flying that did what you are trying to
> do. They are out there. Also, one has to be willing to buy other
> brands INSTEAD of GARMIN/KING if you wanna truly cuts costs. For
> example, A nice Garmin 496 is roughly $3500? There are other GPS
> units that will fit your bill for $1000. SAVINGS = $2500 Also, a
> Garmin SL30 is $3250? A new Icom 200 and a yellow tagged Nav radio
> can be had for $2250. SAVINGS = $1000. I would love the greatest and
> latest from Garmin too, but I choose not to pay their PREMIUM price
> versus other Avionics that do what I need. I flew a Cherokee 140 all
> day yesterday..............the newest thing in the IFR panel was a
> pair of KING 155's. The owner was a happy pilot,,,,,,,,buy to meet
> your needs and your budget............ NOT to impress your friends and
> fellow pilots!
>
>
>
> Dean 40449
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> *FREE* Reminder Service - *NEW* from AmericanGreetings.com
> Click *HERE* and never forget a Birthday or Anniversary again!
> <http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=197335&u=http://www.americangreetings.com/products/online_calendar.pd?c=uol5752>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing) |
James, if you compare the cost of going with a single Horizon I Grand
Rapids MFD & EIS (PFD, Moving Map WASS GPS, and Graphics Engine Monitor)
and a GRT Sport with built in WASS GPS to round gauges and duel GPS
systems you will find that glass is as cheap as round gauges. With the
duel system GRT system above you have a complete IFR backup system. The
single screen HORIZON I with it's own AHRS gives you all three systems
in case the Sport fails and the Sport with the EIS gives you all three
systems in case the Horizon I fails.
Add an SL40 and to the system and you have an ILS/VOR to back up the
duel GPS nav system.
Having said the above, the bottom line is that by the time you have a
slow build RV-10 ready to make a panel decision all your planning as to
what system you install could change.
The decision to go with a 30 year old Spam Can vs. a new RV-10 comes
down to whether or not you want a state of the art airplane vs.
something that will get you from point A to point B as cheap as
possible.
It is like deciding to go with a new car or go buy a 10 year old car.
The ten year old car will also get you from point A to point B but will
do it a lot cheaper, at least for a few years. Who knows whether or not
over 10 years the maintenance costs of the ten year old car will exceed
the differences in the up front purchase price of the new car. Likewise
you don't really know what the maintenance costs of ownership of a 30
year old spam can will be in comparison to the out of pocket expenses to
maintain your own RV-10.
Best regards,
Russ Daves
RV-10 - First Flight 07/28/06
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 3
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That's good to hear, try to keep us all in the loop on how your future
meetings go. I think it's very valuable to see how the FAA works with
the builder assist centers. Especially as they work through the new
rule making.
Do not archive seems to have no affect on the web forum post. It
really doesn't make a difference anyway as almost everything that is
posted is crawled and archived by other services like Google. I can
still find some of my original USENET posts from back in the early 90's.
Once it's in the ether, it can always be found again.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 9:17 PM
Subject: RV10-List: FAA Meeting
Well, I am sure some of you are wondering how the meeting with the FAA
went today. I will try to get around to going into more detail for
those who want to know in the next couple of days, but the short version
is that it went extremely well. Many thanks to whoever "squealed"
anonymously to the FAA trying to hurt us (if you are reading this, it
backfired unless you truly were trying to help us J ), because it
actually helped a lot both in our understanding of what is and is not
(probably, since these rules are changing and even they don't really
know where they are going yet) appropriate, and in their understanding
more fully what we are about and how we are going about it. We will see
when the dust of all of this rule-rewriting settled how things actually
stand, but we believe we have made great strides towards complying with
the rules that are not even set yet, and there is an outside chance that
we may even be able to be a test case for helping to determine how the
rules are written/worded. Time will tell!
do not archive
Speaking of which, does anybody know if the above tag keeps the posts
out of the online forum? I have seen my DNA posts on the forum and
wondered if maybe they are removed after a certain amount of time. I
have e-mailed Matt without a reply. If they are posted there and left,
that would certainly make a difference in the amount I would be willing
to write to the list, since they truly would be archived, even when I
don't want them to be. Is if possible that having some other
punctuation touching makes the phrase unrecognized by the server?
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing) |
One does have to be judicious in your choices. The King 145 and 125
were their low end products, which can be observed by their weak power
output and lack of features. A used KX155 or one of the finest radios
spurned by the market is the Narco MK12D+. Equivalent to a King 165 at
thousands less. The SL30 is a fine unit, because Garmin didn't design
it. If you can only afford one radio, it would be my choice for a new
radio. If you want separate units, the Narco and an Icom will save you
money over most other combinations.
On 2/21/07, Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net> wrote:
>
> Hello Dean and Jim
>
> I only partly agree on that, I did go the cheap route with a KX-125 and
> a KN75 first, then had to add a KI-106 for glideslope. Then the KX
> failed shortly after 2 years, they did charge me $1200.- to fix it. The
> whole setup was much more expensive then if I had gone with am SL-30
> straight ahead (you find them used to (but seldom)). The SL-30 has many
> nice features like 2nd com listen mode, cross reference tracking of 2nd
> NAV and you can have the display of the glideslop on any Dynon EFIS.
>
> I swapped meanwhile the King stuff with an SL-30 and I did not regret,
> except that I would have saved a lot of money going that route from the
> start.
>
> br Werner
>
> ddddsp1@juno.com wrote:
> >
> > Jim,
> >
> > Try to find someone already flying that did what you are trying to
> > do. They are out there. Also, one has to be willing to buy other
> > brands INSTEAD of GARMIN/KING if you wanna truly cuts costs. For
> > example, A nice Garmin 496 is roughly $3500? There are other GPS
> > units that will fit your bill for $1000. SAVINGS = $2500 Also, a
> > Garmin SL30 is $3250? A new Icom 200 and a yellow tagged Nav radio
> > can be had for $2250. SAVINGS = $1000. I would love the greatest and
> > latest from Garmin too, but I choose not to pay their PREMIUM price
> > versus other Avionics that do what I need. I flew a Cherokee 140 all
> > day yesterday..............the newest thing in the IFR panel was a
> > pair of KING 155's. The owner was a happy pilot,,,,,,,,buy to meet
> > your needs and your budget............ NOT to impress your friends and
> > fellow pilots!
> >
> >
> >
> > Dean 40449
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> > *FREE* Reminder Service - *NEW* from AmericanGreetings.com
> > Click *HERE* and never forget a Birthday or Anniversary again!
> > <http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=197335&u=http://www.americangreetings.com/products/online_calendar.pd?c=uol5752>
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Experimental Inquiry |
Kevin,
I like your idea for the placard markings. That should get their
attention. :>}
Wayne Edgerton #40336
do not archive
Message 6
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Jesse Saint wrote:
snip
> do not archive
>
>
> Speaking of which, does anybody know if the above tag keeps the posts
> out of the online forum? I have seen my DNA posts on the forum and
> wondered if maybe they are removed after a certain amount of time.
>
I asked the same question when I came on board. It does work to keep
extraneous stuff out of the archives. It doesn't matter where in the
message it resides ...... even on the end of a 25 hit thread.
> I have e-mailed Matt without a reply. If they are posted there and
> left, that would certainly make a difference in the amount I would be
> willing to write to the list, since they truly would be archived, even
> when I don't want them to be. Is if possible that having some other
> punctuation touching makes the phrase unrecognized by the server?
>
there is a difference in what gets kept on the server. The message will
go out to all the list subscribers no matter what, but without the 'do
not archive' ..... those words and nothing else ..... it'll be kept for
posterity ..... and eternity as storage drive capability increases. I
also think you'll get a response ..... Matt must be one very busy guy.
For me, I use 'do not archive' a lot ...... mostly it's going to be MY
opinion and MY experience at this point, and I've been proven wrong in
the past. I'd hate to think that just because I was lucky, someone else
go hurt as a result of MY post. Just in case any of you have been
wondering. Sometimes a poster will disagree with the 'do not archive'
in a post and repost it with the verbage removed. That's OK too.
Linn ...... it's in there lots more than once ;-)
>
>
> Jesse Saint
>
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
>
> jesse@saintaviation.com <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com>
>
> www.saintaviation.com <http://www.saintaviation.com>
>
> Cell: 352-427-0285
>
> Fax: 815-377-3694
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing) |
In a message dated 2/21/07 1:47:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ddddsp1@juno.com writes:
Jim,
Try to find someone already flying that did what you are trying to do. They
are out there. Also, one has to be willing to buy other brands INSTEAD of
GARMIN/KING if you wanna truly cuts costs. For example, A nice Garmin 496 is
roughly $3500?
If you're going to build an IFR panel, I don't think you should budget a
handheld as part of your cost in the plane as it's not "installed" equipment,
but should be a portable device for situational awareness. I know it will be
a
cost but I'd not like to consider it as part of the panel expense. I'd
think of the portable like a head set just my flying cost not my plane cost.
JA Air has reconditioned IFR GPS units from time to time and they are a bit
off of original list priced equipment, some dealers will discount equipment
on the panel if they do your entire panel.
We have a 300xl in the 235, my avionic shop still quotes installing them for
$7k plus...one can buy this unit on e bay for $2500-3,000...it's a nice
basic unit, will get you to the center of any airport, VOR, waypoint, etc., and
you can do the GPS's and overlay's etc. There are other basic IFR GPS units
out there that will work well and may not cost near as much as the top Garmin
units but you'll generally get what you pay for..
Please note that not all approaches are in the 300xl series either...all the
GPS's are but not all of the other approaches as are in the 400/500 series.
Even if you had two 300xl units installed, I'd still want a VOR with a GS as
I don't think the ILS's and VOR approaches are going away that quickly. If
I was going to build a panel inexpensively and wanted IFR..I'd do a 300xl
with two VOR's at least one with a GS and maybe both with GS's, I like the KX
155 radio's we have also as our second comm/nav but there are lots of choices
on radios/transponders etc. Plus I'd make room for the 496 somewhere near by!
Patrick
do not archive
<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> Check out free AOL at
http://free.aol.com/thenewaol/index.adp. Most comprehensive set of free
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Message 8
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| Subject: | IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing) |
I agree with everything except=85. I=92d combine the 300xl and a VOR and
find a
used 430. If you look around they can usually be found for 4-4500.
Yes a
little more than a 300, but it combines space and IMO has better
situational
awareness.
FWIW
Nick Nafsinger
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
GRANSCOTT@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 8:26 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing)
In a message dated 2/21/07 1:47:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ddddsp1@juno.com writes:
Jim,
Try to find someone already flying that did what you are trying to do.
They
are out there. Also, one has to be willing to buy other brands INSTEAD
of
GARMIN/KING if you wanna truly cuts costs. For example, A nice Garmin
496
is roughly $3500?
If you're going to build an IFR panel, I don't think you should budget a
handheld as part of your cost in the plane as it's not "installed"
equipment, but should be a portable device for situational awareness. I
know it will be a cost but I'd not like to consider it as part of the
panel
expense. I'd think of the portable like a head set just my flying cost
not
my plane cost.
JA Air has reconditioned IFR GPS units from time to time and they are a
bit
off of original list priced equipment, some dealers will discount
equipment
on the panel if they do your entire panel.
We have a 300xl in the 235, my avionic shop still quotes installing them
for
$7k plus...one can buy this unit on e bay for $2500-3,000...it's a nice
basic unit, will get you to the center of any airport, VOR, waypoint,
etc.,
and you can do the GPS's and overlay's etc. There are other basic IFR
GPS
units out there that will work well and may not cost near as much as the
top
Garmin units but you'll generally get what you pay for..
Please note that not all approaches are in the 300xl series either...all
the
GPS's are but not all of the other approaches as are in the 400/500
series.
Even if you had two 300xl units installed, I'd still want a VOR with a
GS as
I don't think the ILS's and VOR approaches are going away that quickly.
If
I was going to build a panel inexpensively and wanted IFR..I'd do a
300xl
with two VOR's at least one with a GS and maybe both with GS's, I like
the
KX 155 radio's we have also as our second comm/nav but there are lots of
choices on radios/transponders etc. Plus I'd make room for the 496
somewhere near by!
Patrick
do not archive
_____
Check out free AOL
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"http://www.matronics.com/Na
vig
ator?RV10-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
--
2/20/2007
1:44 PM
--
2/20/2007
1:44 PM
Message 9
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| Subject: | IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing) |
I am in a particular spot in my building process which has provided me with
a certain perspective on all this and many of the builders I am sure have
felt what I am going through at one time or another.
All the planning on the panel costs and other anticipated costs are good and
a wise thing to do. It is my thought however, that if you are really nit
picking the costs to such a degree, than I might take a look at exactly why
you are thinking of building the Rv in the first place. Is it all about
cutting costs? It is a lot like building a home. It is always more expensive
than first imagined.
All I am suggesting is that there is a lot of time, a lot of effort and
money from the time you start to the actual time when you get to start
putting in the panel. If it has been a life long dream to build your own
plane, then no matter how much it costs, go for it. If you are doing to cut
costs, I might suggest that it is much like putting a nice steak into one
end of the meat grinder. You know the meat will come out the other end, but
it might not be what you expected coming out the other end. It is a beast of
a project. It is not difficult work, and a lot of it fun for the most part,
just time consuming and very difficult alongside life's other
responsibilties, unless you have a lot of free time.
My two cents. Emotional cents.
JOhn G.
>From: "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann@cox.net>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing)
>Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 21:17:39 -0800
>
>Jim
>
>
>You are adding unnecessary expenses by wanting more than a good IFR
>platform.. Price out Dual grand rapids efis, SL30, 300 xl the Gtx 327,
>drop
>down in quality to Maybe a 1000II audio, and a lesser auto pilot and you
>will save a lot of money, and you will have a certified IFR aircraft, that
>is better than what's in every DC-8 or 707 in the world.
>
>
>2 cents worth
>
>
>Bob K
>
>Panel and fiberglass and wires and oxygen system and a few rivets now and
>then just to keep in practice.
>
>
> _____
>
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James S. Clark
>IV
>Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 7:13 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing)
>
>
>John,
>
>
>I'm not sure I followed everything in your post, or how it was meant to
>apply to me.
>
>
>Just to clear things up: I am not interested in a minimalist VFR panel. I
>will build an IFR plane or I will buy an IFR TC aircraft. I am trying to
>budget these options with some detail.
>
>
>My mission is quite clear to me: End up with a 4 seat IFR platform that I
>can use for several years (it doesn't have to be the top of the line or my
>final configuration for the first few years). This platform may have steam
>gauges (archer or other) or electronic flight instruments or glass flight
>instruments (RV10).
>
>
>My question was intended to get people's ideas on a reasonable minimal cost
>IFR panel for the RV10. It seems that roughly no matter how I cut it:
>Quickbuild + Shipping + New Engine +FWF = 100k. Avionics + Finishing is
>where I have choices and drastically different costs.
>
>
>For example one possible IFR option:
>
>2 GRT EFIS 1 + EIS
>
>8000B audio panel
>
>GNS480
>
>DigiFlight-IIVSGV
>
>SL30 NavCom
>
>GTX327
>
>ADI, Alt, AS, Compass
>
>
>The above adds roughly 33k. The remainder in the spreadsheet version 3 I
>have sent out seem to come to 14k more (including some nice hidden costs
>that Anh sent out)
>
>
>Naturally, I will do everything within my power and budget not to "sell
>myself short".
>
>
>Best regards,
>
>Jim Clark
>
>-Still learning the ropes...
>
>
>On Feb 20, 2007, at 9:39 PM, John W. Cox wrote:
>
>
>
>
>The minimalist panel is not IFR it is VFR as VAN designed with steam
>
>gages. Stay away from induction and control surface icing and get the
>
>most out of a minimalist budget. Save panel real estate for the point in
>
>time you have the amended perspective. You will be quite pleased. The
>
>only big change since it was first introduced is the inflation rate
>
>applied , by VAN to the kit components and the drying up of used IO-540
>
>cores as VAN had originally budgeted. Randy used a reconditioned prop
>
>and there has been little discussion on the value of that route.
>
>
>Know your mission, do not sell yourself short.
>
>
>John Cox
>
>#40600
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James S.
>
>Clark IV
>
>Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 5:53 PM
>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
>Subject: RV10-List: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing)
>
>
>
><james.s.clark@comcast.net>
>
>
>Linn, I like the idea on the panel. I'd be interested in hearing more
>
>about your panel choices.
>
>
>Tim, sorry for the confusion: no I don't plan to borrow all 150k, but
>
>for budgeting I think it is good to plan for the lost earnings that
>
>those dollars could be used for if not tied up in an aircraft (or toy).
>
>
>I am interested in cost savings though: Specifically, if an IFR RV-10
>
>is a must (even if using steam gauges), what is the lowest reasonable
>
>target figure? I find it very hard to come in at <130. But I have
>
>heard several say lower. What am I missing?
>
>
>I have heard the following suggestions which I like very much:
>
>Don't paint right away. -Jesse, how does this change if stored outside?
>
>Store RV-10 outside (ouch, I don't know if I can live with this). How
>
>well will an RV-10 endure VA weather with covers? If I know up front
>
>it will be stored outside, any special priming areas I should consider?
>
>Save money on engine - don't get new (with conflicting ideas on how
>
>much this saves) - various posters
>
>Buy steam gauges for first panel (but still IFR), wait to go glass
>
>IFR for later if mission/desires dictate. Try to keep panel
>
>instruments from first panel revision, useful for 2nd panel down the
>
>road. - Linn
>
>Go slow build to save...-various
>
>
>John, thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate the comparison with the
>
>Archer and like Jesse's idea about fewer wasted pit stops.
>
>
>Bill, thanks for your comparison of the archer. I would be interested
>
>if you have any numbers on how much savings can be expected in the
>
>maintenance. What would be your yearly numbers for each?
>
>
>What would others consider a minimalist RV-10 IFR panel?
>
>
>Thanks for all your help,
>
>Best regards,
>
>Jim Clark
>
>
>- The RV10-List Email Forum -
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Reconditioned prop (was IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing)) |
John,
In your reply you mentioned Randy used a reconditioned prop. I thought
the Hartzel for the RV10 was a new design and there were no "used"
propellers available. Is there any more information about possible
reconditioned options?
Vern Smith (#324 fuselage)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 6:40 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing)
Randy used a reconditioned prop
and there has been little discussion on the value of that route.
Know your mission, do not sell yourself short.
John Cox
#40600
Message 11
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| Subject: | Reconditioned prop (was IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing)) |
I am just speaking from old experience, but I thought I remembered that
Randy had a new prop, but got it before the blended airfoil was available.
I remember the discussion about his speed being a little less because of the
older style, but I don't specifically remember if it was new or
reconditioned, and John would know that better, of course. The props I have
looked at and talked to people about, used and reconditioned, were pushing
the same price that Van's sells them for, so it was a no brainer to me, but
saving $1,000 is saving $1,000 when budget is that major.
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vern W. Smith
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 10:39 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Reconditioned prop (was IFR RV-10 Budgeting
(ongoing))
John,
In your reply you mentioned Randy used a reconditioned prop. I thought
the Hartzel for the RV10 was a new design and there were no "used"
propellers available. Is there any more information about possible
reconditioned options?
Vern Smith (#324 fuselage)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 6:40 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing)
Randy used a reconditioned prop
and there has been little discussion on the value of that route.
Know your mission, do not sell yourself short.
John Cox
#40600
--
1:44 PM
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing) |
Nick couldn't agree more...for a few $$ the 430 is so much more capable but
I thought the ideas was "budget" IFR...with the amount of time to plan...it
seems that there will lots of newer and more interesting products coming on
the market place...Is TruTrak coming along with their EFIS? As Kelly point
ed
out there are many radio's to select along with audio
panels/transponders/little monitors for the rear seats!
When it comes to "toy's" I'm a cash sort of guy.
P
________________________
I agree with everything except. I=99d combine the 300xl and
a VOR and find a
used 430. If you look around they can usually be found for 4-4500. Yes a
little more than a 300, but it combines space and IMO has better situationa
l
awareness.
FWIW
Nick Nafsinger
<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> Check out free AOL at
http://free.aol.com/thenewaol/index.adp. Most comprehensive set of free
safety and security tools, millions of free high-quality videos from across
the
web, free AOL Mail and much more.
Message 13
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| Subject: | A bit overwhelmed |
I have come to the end of the plans for the empennage kit on my 10. I
still have to finish installing the trim servo assembly, and glass tail
tips, rudder tips, tail strobe...etc. I am waiting on my fuse and
wings. I need to start accumulating glass supplies, (good posts from
Gary and John Testement recently) and also get together electrical
supplies, wire, conduit and so forth. The project suddenly seems a bit
overwhelming as I anticipate the delivery of the next kits. I don't
want to lose momentum but I find myself staring into space trying to
figure out what to accomplish next most efficiently. My wife just told
me yesterday she can't wait until the plane is done because of all the
crap which happened recently with commercial air travel. Give me a push
guys!
Dave Leikam
40496
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: A bit overwhelmed |
Dave Leikam wrote:
> can't wait until the plane is done because of all the crap which
> happened recently with commercial air travel.
>
I can only speak for myself but that is all the push I need right
there. I try to spend at least an hour each weekday evening in the
shop, more if I can. Even if it is just cleaning up the shop or reading
over something in the manual it helps me to stay focused/motivated.
Keep poking at it!
-Dj
do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing) |
This thread seems to be more about saving money than building an
airplane. If finances are that big of an issue in Jim's decision process
(as they seem to be). This issue will continue to raise it's ugly head
throughout a long and sometimes stressful process. And not just on
avionics issues, which is the current fixation, but on virtually every
item that Van's does not supply in the kit (at least 70% of the total
airplane finished cost for which you will have several options to select
from). I would hope that after investing the considerable amount of time
(not just in building, but in researching, learning, etc) Jim will want
for yourself an airplane that he can be proud of, one that will echo the
pride and workmanship of those that have already been completed as a
part of the -10 fleet. Starting off cutting corners is not a good way to
begin IMO. My advice would be to seriously consider whether he can
reasonably allow for more financial headroom, as I can promise that it
will be needed. If not, go for the Archer and save the building until a
time in life where if better fits with work/life situation.
I speak from experience having started (but not finished) 2 kits earlier
in life when job, family and finances were different. I got into an IFR
Arrow on a partnership, then worked my way into owning a Bonanza, and
then traded up into several other TC aircraft. I'm now in a situation
that the stars and moon are all aligned and I'm able to complete my
postponed dream of build my own plane. You NEED a LOT of PASSION and
desire to do this as it's a LONG journey. The statistics suggest that
the majority of builders that begin a project do not finish it.
Finances are the leading reason for abandoning a project.
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
http://deemsrv10.com/
John Gonzalez wrote:
>
> I am in a particular spot in my building process which has provided me
> with a certain perspective on all this and many of the builders I am
> sure have felt what I am going through at one time or another.
>
> All the planning on the panel costs and other anticipated costs are
> good and a wise thing to do. It is my thought however, that if you are
> really nit picking the costs to such a degree, than I might take a
> look at exactly why you are thinking of building the Rv in the first
> place. Is it all about cutting costs?
Message 16
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| Subject: | IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing) |
You could do what I did....
First, you figure out how much the aircraft will cost to build, then
file that paper away. Go blindly forth buying and building, and file
away the receipts. Don't calculate your costs EVER during the build.
This will only make you unhappy. Don't try to figure out why you seem
to be over budget (using only mental calculations), this will also make
you unhappy. Try to save money on things, and be proud when you do.
Don't think about the fact that you've bought an extra fuse side skin, 4
extra trim tabs, all the parts necessary for a new baggage door (because
you couldn't live with a 1/8" gap), a new battery tray (because you
countersunk the wrong side when you were building), the countless single
switches from Mouser.com that you buy to evaluate the coolness factor
(and that end up in the "switches" box in the "airplane room").... I'll
cut myself off here because I could go on for awhile remembering parts
that I've screwed up and/or bought and not used.... Anyway, also don't
mind the total and complete deconstruction of the "what expensive is"
portion of your brain. This drives up the cost of an airplane. For
example: I'm at the supermarket, looking at cheese. The Kraft cheese
is $3.00, the fancy cheese is $5.50. You look at it and think, "well,
why not...after all, it's not like it's a $41,000 engine or anything,
and we deserve it for that hard weekend of building that we put in!"
After awhile, the extra $1.50 for cheese turns into leather seats with
seat-heaters. It's only a couple thousand more, and it'll be soooo
nice! This condition should not be confused with the "well, I'll only
build one, so I better make it exactly as neato as I want" condition.
This is the condition whereby you start building an airplane with a
budget and a plan, and then as the aircraft starts to become real,
suddenly (or not so suddenly) you decide that you only want the best for
your baby. This starting to sound familiar to anyone out there? yep.
It does to me. Also I'm a low time pilot who doesn't have a plane
already, and I have to make time to fly. In my area, an IFR 172 that
you'd actually want to fly in IFR conditions runs $130 (wet) an hour.
Oh, and I hadn't budgeted on the cost to get my instrument rating.
Expensive.
Yep. And I'm happy as a clam. Eventually I'll run out of parts or
money, and hopefully both at the same time! for me, I was never much of
a bean counter, and I'm enjoying the process. One day, I'll figure out
how much it cost me in dollars, and it'll seem like a bargain for how
much I've gotten back in experience. Corny, but true. And I'm not even
flying yet.
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James S.
Clark IV
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing)
John,
I'm not sure I followed everything in your post, or how it was meant to
apply to me.
Just to clear things up: I am not interested in a minimalist VFR panel.
I will build an IFR plane or I will buy an IFR TC aircraft. I am trying
to budget these options with some detail.
My mission is quite clear to me: End up with a 4 seat IFR platform that
I can use for several years (it doesn't have to be the top of the line
or my final configuration for the first few years). This platform may
have steam gauges (archer or other) or electronic flight instruments or
glass flight instruments (RV10).
My question was intended to get people's ideas on a reasonable minimal
cost IFR panel for the RV10. It seems that roughly no matter how I cut
it: Quickbuild + Shipping + New Engine +FWF = 100k. Avionics +
Finishing
is where I have choices and drastically different costs.
For example one possible IFR option:
2 GRT EFIS 1 + EIS
8000B audio panel
GNS480
DigiFlight-IIVSGV
SL30 NavCom
GTX327
ADI, Alt, AS, Compass
The above adds roughly 33k. The remainder in the spreadsheet version 3 I
have sent out seem to come to 14k more (including some nice hidden costs
that Anh sent out)
Naturally, I will do everything within my power and budget not to "sell
myself short".
Best regards,
Jim Clark
-Still learning the ropes...
On Feb 20, 2007, at 9:39 PM, John W. Cox wrote:
The minimalist panel is not IFR it is VFR as VAN designed with steam
gages. Stay away from induction and control surface icing and get the
most out of a minimalist budget. Save panel real estate for the point in
time you have the amended perspective. You will be quite pleased. The
only big change since it was first introduced is the inflation rate
applied , by VAN to the kit components and the drying up of used IO-540
cores as VAN had originally budgeted. Randy used a reconditioned prop
and there has been little discussion on the value of that route.
Know your mission, do not sell yourself short.
John Cox
#40600
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James S.
Clark IV
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 5:53 PM
Subject: RV10-List: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing)
<james.s.clark@comcast.net>
Linn, I like the idea on the panel. I'd be interested in hearing more
about your panel choices.
Tim, sorry for the confusion: no I don't plan to borrow all 150k, but
for budgeting I think it is good to plan for the lost earnings that
those dollars could be used for if not tied up in an aircraft (or toy).
I am interested in cost savings though: Specifically, if an IFR RV-10
is a must (even if using steam gauges), what is the lowest reasonable
target figure? I find it very hard to come in at <130. But I have
heard several say lower. What am I missing?
I have heard the following suggestions which I like very much:
Don't paint right away. -Jesse, how does this change if stored outside?
Store RV-10 outside (ouch, I don't know if I can live with this). How
well will an RV-10 endure VA weather with covers? If I know up front
it will be stored outside, any special priming areas I should consider?
Save money on engine - don't get new (with conflicting ideas on how
much this saves) - various posters
Buy steam gauges for first panel (but still IFR), wait to go glass
IFR for later if mission/desires dictate. Try to keep panel
instruments from first panel revision, useful for 2nd panel down the
road. - Linn
Go slow build to save...-various
John, thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate the comparison with the
Archer and like Jesse's idea about fewer wasted pit stops.
Bill, thanks for your comparison of the archer. I would be interested
if you have any numbers on how much savings can be expected in the
maintenance. What would be your yearly numbers for each?
What would others consider a minimalist RV-10 IFR panel?
Thanks for all your help,
Best regards,
Jim Clark
- The RV10-List Email Forum -
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: elevator control horn drilling |
Thanks for the response John (I missed it at first)
I have 5/32 of hole edge to bottom edge distance - 1/32 less then you.
Van's Ken suggested welding the hold closed and redrilling. Sounds
clean but checking with my EAA Tech Counselor next. It would seem that
anyone familiar with welding chromoly (sp) should know if that's
suitable and should know how to do. I'm not a welder.
I would very much like to see your pics.
Bill (a bit frustrated by the elevator horns but can see the end of the
empennage - QB wings and fuse await) Watson
#406
http://www.mykitlog.com/MauleDriver/
John Gonzalez wrote:
>
> I had the additional requirement of needing to align my counter
> balance arms, my horn hole was slightly less than 90 degrees itrue in
> all dimensions. I ended doing the plate and riveting it on to the horn.
>
> I"ll send picture tomorrow if you are interested.
>
> JOhn G.
>
>
>> From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: elevator control horn drilling
>> Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:25:58 -0500
>>
>>
>> John (or anyone), what was Vans final advice regarding this
>> situation? I may be facing a similar situation with reduced material
>> between the hole and the end of the horn.
>>
>> I've searched the forum but can't find additional references.
>>
>> Thanks
>> do not archive
>>
>> John Gonzalez wrote:
>>> <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Richard,
>>>
>>> I just got off the phone with Van's and asked them to have the
>>> powers that be review the building manual and make a comment about
>>> being careful to respect the up/down dimension of where the drill
>>> will exit out of the second hole on the second horn. Not jus tbe
>>> concerned about the most aft horn being the designated guide.
>>>
>>> I wanted to ask you the minimum edge distance as you stated, is that
>>> in steel or in alluminum?
>>>
>>> I discussed the issue of welding on a plate and and he did not
>>> think that was necessary, there also could be a weakening of the
>>> original material at the intersection of the new plate and the horn.
>>>
>>> Just for discussion, (If I could not sleep because of this) he
>>> discussed an alternate remedy, riveting another plate of similair
>>> material(4130 steel) with say 6 rivets using the same hole, just to
>>> extend the gap between the hole edge and the bottom edge of the horn.
>>>
>>> As I have stated, I have 6/32 of material on the bottom edge from
>>> hole edge to horn bottom edge, and when this is all torqued down
>>> with washers pinching this together I wonder how exposed to stresses
>>> this 6/32" of material will be. still need to review the
>>> connection, but alteast there are a couple of alternative remedies
>>> other than rework
>>>
>>> JOhn G. 409
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing) |
Chris, you and Deems just posted 2 great posts IMHO that I really
like. They basically reflect what I feel. You hit the nail on the
head when you described just building it like you know you'll want it.
When I started out, I thought an RV-10 for $110,000-125,000 was
going to be a good target. Turns out I was way off. Yes, I know
that's controllable, but had I been on a strict budget, I would
have ended up being a very unhappy person, who would have had
to sell his RV-10, or live with a plane that wouldn't *really* be
what I wanted. The RV-10 has more potential for "creep" in the price
than any other RV, due to it's size, capability, amount of fiberglass,
and options. Not being aware of the potential is a dangerous thing,
which I why I first started that "options" page in my Tips area
of my site...so people could see what options are there that may
not be included.
In the end, I honestly ended up with less than $1,000 in the bank
the day I flew my RV-10 for the first time. It's been even
a harder struggle to increase the bank funds since I've finished it
than when I was building, because now I am flying it and having
those expenses. For every builder, you're going to actually have
*thousands* of dollars in expense just getting through your flyoff
period, so just keep that in mind.
I pretty much think that this is some of the best advice for someone
jumping into the RV-10 project:
From Scott Lewis RV-10 40172 VH-DRS:
"When working out how much a project is going to cost, write down how
much you think, then double it . . . .
then throw the paper in the bin and just keep spending money until its
finished!!"
This says nothing that limits the builder, or that forces them to
spend more on fancy stuff that they don't want or need. It just
gives them a quick reality check on how vague the final cost may
be. I would bet that not one RV-10 builder could come in within
$1,000 of their initial expected cost, even if they planned out
every conceivable expense.
It might be well-approached this way: Plan for $175,000. If your
dreams are more conservative, and your efficiency is good, you
should be able to *easily* build an RV-10 for that price. Many will
come in well under that price and be pleasantly surprised. A few
will go over, but those who do are probably not the ones worried
about $2000 differentials in the costs of various avionics choices,
or other options.
We've been through this exercise in the past though, and the further
people are along in their build, the more they tend to view $150K
as being a good modest target for their RV-10, so I wouldn't go
into it planning on any less than that...even though it can be done.
All just opinion, but it's nice to be wary. I've said it before:
It's great to see people interested in such a fine plane, but I'd
rather see everyone who starts one, finish one....not end up
emailing the list later about how "Due to changes.....<snip>...I've
been forced to sell...".
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Chris Johnston wrote:
> You could do what I did.
>
>
>
> First, you figure out how much the aircraft will cost to build, then
> file that paper away. Go blindly forth buying and building, and file
> away the receipts. Dont calculate your costs EVER during the build.
> This will only make you unhappy. Dont try to figure out why you seem
> to be over budget (using only mental calculations), this will also make
> you unhappy. Try to save money on things, and be proud when you do.
> Dont think about the fact that youve bought an extra fuse side skin,
> 4 extra trim tabs, all the parts necessary for a new baggage door
> (because you couldnt live with a 1/8 gap), a new battery tray (because
> you countersunk the wrong side when you were building), the countless
> single switches from Mouser.com that you buy to evaluate the coolness
> factor (and that end up in the switches box in the airplane room).
> Ill cut myself off here because I could go on for awhile remembering
> parts that Ive screwed up and/or bought and not used. Anyway, also
> dont mind the total and complete deconstruction of the what expensive
> is portion of your brain. This drives up the cost of an airplane. For
> example: Im at the supermarket, looking at cheese. The Kraft cheese
> is $3.00, the fancy cheese is $5.50. You look at it and think, well,
> why notafter all, its not like its a $41,000 engine or anything, and
> we deserve it for that hard weekend of building that we put in! After
> awhile, the extra $1.50 for cheese turns into leather seats with
> seat-heaters. Its only a couple thousand more, and itll be soooo
> nice! This condition should not be confused with the well, Ill only
> build one, so I better make it exactly as neato as I want condition.
> This is the condition whereby you start building an airplane with a
> budget and a plan, and then as the aircraft starts to become real,
> suddenly (or not so suddenly) you decide that you only want the best for
> your baby. This starting to sound familiar to anyone out there? yep.
> It does to me. Also Im a low time pilot who doesnt have a plane
> already, and I have to make time to fly. In my area, an IFR 172 that
> youd actually want to fly in IFR conditions runs $130 (wet) an hour.
> Oh, and I hadnt budgeted on the cost to get my instrument rating.
> Expensive.
>
>
>
> Yep. And Im happy as a clam. Eventually Ill run out of parts or
> money, and hopefully both at the same time! for me, I was never much of
> a bean counter, and Im enjoying the process. One day, Ill figure out
> how much it cost me in dollars, and itll seem like a bargain for how
> much Ive gotten back in experience. Corny, but true. And Im not even
> flying yet.
>
>
>
> cj
>
> #40410
>
> fuse
>
> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *James S.
> Clark IV
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 20, 2007 7:13 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing)
>
>
>
> John,
>
>
>
> I'm not sure I followed everything in your post, or how it was meant to
> apply to me.
>
>
>
> Just to clear things up: I am not interested in a minimalist VFR panel.
> I will build an IFR plane or I will buy an IFR TC aircraft. I am trying
> to budget these options with some detail.
>
>
>
> My mission is quite clear to me: End up with a 4 seat IFR platform that
> I can use for several years (it doesn't have to be the top of the line
> or my final configuration for the first few years). This platform may
> have steam gauges (archer or other) or electronic flight instruments or
> glass flight instruments (RV10).
>
>
>
> My question was intended to get people's ideas on a reasonable minimal
> cost IFR panel for the RV10. It seems that roughly no matter how I cut
> it: Quickbuild + Shipping + New Engine +FWF = 100k. Avionics + Finishing
> is where I have choices and drastically different costs.
>
>
>
> For example one possible IFR option:
>
> 2 GRT EFIS 1 + EIS
>
> 8000B audio panel
>
> GNS480
>
> DigiFlight-IIVSGV
>
> SL30 NavCom
>
> GTX327
>
> ADI, Alt, AS, Compass
>
>
>
> The above adds roughly 33k. The remainder in the spreadsheet version 3 I
> have sent out seem to come to 14k more (including some nice hidden costs
> that Anh sent out)
>
>
>
> Naturally, I will do everything within my power and budget not to "sell
> myself short".
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jim Clark
>
> -Still learning the ropes...
>
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 20, 2007, at 9:39 PM, John W. Cox wrote:
>
>
>
> <mailto:johnwcox@pacificnw.com>>
>
>
>
> The minimalist panel is not IFR it is VFR as VAN designed with steam
>
> gages. Stay away from induction and control surface icing and get the
>
> most out of a minimalist budget. Save panel real estate for the point in
>
> time you have the amended perspective. You will be quite pleased. The
>
> only big change since it was first introduced is the inflation rate
>
> applied , by VAN to the kit components and the drying up of used IO-540
>
> cores as VAN had originally budgeted. Randy used a reconditioned prop
>
> and there has been little discussion on the value of that route.
>
>
>
> Know your mission, do not sell yourself short.
>
>
>
> John Cox
>
> #40600
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
>
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James S.
>
> Clark IV
>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 5:53 PM
>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
>
> Subject: RV10-List: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing)
>
>
>
>
> <james.s.clark@comcast.net <mailto:james.s.clark@comcast.net>>
>
>
>
> Linn, I like the idea on the panel. I'd be interested in hearing more
>
> about your panel choices.
>
>
>
> Tim, sorry for the confusion: no I don't plan to borrow all 150k, but
>
> for budgeting I think it is good to plan for the lost earnings that
>
> those dollars could be used for if not tied up in an aircraft (or toy).
>
>
>
> I am interested in cost savings though: Specifically, if an IFR RV-10
>
> is a must (even if using steam gauges), what is the lowest reasonable
>
> target figure? I find it very hard to come in at <130. But I have
>
> heard several say lower. What am I missing?
>
>
>
> I have heard the following suggestions which I like very much:
>
> Don't paint right away. -Jesse, how does this change if stored outside?
>
> Store RV-10 outside (ouch, I don't know if I can live with this). How
>
> well will an RV-10 endure VA weather with covers? If I know up front
>
> it will be stored outside, any special priming areas I should consider?
>
> Save money on engine - don't get new (with conflicting ideas on how
>
> much this saves) - various posters
>
> Buy steam gauges for first panel (but still IFR), wait to go glass
>
> IFR for later if mission/desires dictate. Try to keep panel
>
> instruments from first panel revision, useful for 2nd panel down the
>
> road. - Linn
>
> Go slow build to save...-various
>
>
>
> John, thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate the comparison with the
>
> Archer and like Jesse's idea about fewer wasted pit stops.
>
>
>
> Bill, thanks for your comparison of the archer. I would be interested
>
> if you have any numbers on how much savings can be expected in the
>
> maintenance. What would be your yearly numbers for each?
>
>
>
> What would others consider a minimalist RV-10 IFR panel?
>
>
>
> Thanks for all your help,
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jim Clark
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - The RV10-List Email Forum -
>
> < /DIV>
> < /DIV>
> < /DIV>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> * - The RV10-List Email Forum -*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> * --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> **
>
> * - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -*
>
> **
>
> * --> http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 19
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| Subject: | Reconditioned prop (was IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing)) |
Hello, I am back from Vacation. I have a rebuilt early prop. The same
one that was on the prototype RV10 when it first flew. I paid 3500.00
outright and had to wait 7 months for the rebuilder to get a nice set of
blades in. He had a nice used hub in stock. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 8:10 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Reconditioned prop (was IFR RV-10 Budgeting
(ongoing))
I am just speaking from old experience, but I thought I remembered that
Randy had a new prop, but got it before the blended airfoil was
available.
I remember the discussion about his speed being a little less because of
the
older style, but I don't specifically remember if it was new or
reconditioned, and John would know that better, of course. The props I
have
looked at and talked to people about, used and reconditioned, were
pushing
the same price that Van's sells them for, so it was a no brainer to me,
but
saving $1,000 is saving $1,000 when budget is that major.
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vern W. Smith
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 10:39 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Reconditioned prop (was IFR RV-10 Budgeting
(ongoing))
John,
In your reply you mentioned Randy used a reconditioned prop. I thought
the Hartzel for the RV10 was a new design and there were no "used"
propellers available. Is there any more information about possible
reconditioned options?
Vern Smith (#324 fuselage)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 6:40 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing)
Randy used a reconditioned prop
and there has been little discussion on the value of that route.
Know your mission, do not sell yourself short.
John Cox
#40600
--
1:44 PM
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: A bit overwhelmed |
Also,
Did most builders purchase Van's wiring harness? I am probably going to
install a different engine that begins with an "E". (Shhhhhhhhhhhh.)
Dave Leikam
40496
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Leikam
To: matronics
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 10:47 AM
Subject: RV10-List: A bit overwhelmed
I have come to the end of the plans for the empennage kit on my 10. I
still have to finish installing the trim servo assembly, and glass tail
tips, rudder tips, tail strobe...etc. I am waiting on my fuse and
wings. I need to start accumulating glass supplies, (good posts from
Gary and John Testement recently) and also get together electrical
supplies, wire, conduit and so forth. The project suddenly seems a bit
overwhelming as I anticipate the delivery of the next kits. I don't
want to lose momentum but I find myself staring into space trying to
figure out what to accomplish next most efficiently. My wife just told
me yesterday she can't wait until the plane is done because of all the
crap which happened recently with commercial air travel. Give me a push
guys!
Dave Leikam
40496
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: re: infant ear protectors |
When my son was an infant, we cut the foam earplugs down, inserted
those, and then put a knit cap with a chin strap/ties on over that so
they wouldn't come out.
I've seen the MuttMuffs, which are cool for dogs, but the woman who
invented them told me they did not have a noise reduction rating (which
is an expensive proposition). Also, their design takes into account the
dog's natural hearing protection - their ears flopping over. So, they
would probably be ok if the baby is also wearing cut-down earplugs as well.
Hope this helps,
Cory
PILOTDDS@aol.com wrote:
> When i was at oshkosh another 10 pilot & his wife discussed using dog
> hearing protectors to protect their infant's ears. Does anyone have a
> pirep on this technique or any other suggestions to protect a four
> month old child's ears.
> The 10 is a family plane, right? 728DD 113 hours and loving it!
>
>
> **************************************
> Check out free AOL at http://free.aol.com/thenewaol/index.adp. Most
> comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, millions of free
> high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and much more.
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | A bit overwhelmed |
Dave,
How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time!
Try not to think of it as one giant project. Think and work on "bit
sized" projects. When the wing kit arrives, job #1 is inventory parts,
nothing more. Then just start working on the next chapter. It's much
easier to think 'hey I'm just building a set of spars or skinning a
wing' than 'I am going to turn this pile of aluminum into a flying
airplane.' Also if possible find another local builder. There is another
10 builder in the local EAA chapter and while we don't work much on each
others projects, we do kibitz and it does keep us motivated. I have to
work on the fuselage skins today because I know Paul is at the same step
and I can't let him get too far ahead;)
As far as fiberglass I personally am holding off on that until the cabin
top then I will convert my shop over for fiberglass work and do all of
it as one project.
Vern Smith (#324 fuselage skins)
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 8:47 AM
Subject: RV10-List: A bit overwhelmed
I have come to the end of the plans for the empennage kit on my 10. I
still have to finish installing the trim servo assembly, and glass tail
tips, rudder tips, tail strobe...etc. I am waiting on my fuse and
wings. I need to start accumulating glass supplies, (good posts from
Gary and John Testement recently) and also get together electrical
supplies, wire, conduit and so forth. The project suddenly seems a bit
overwhelming as I anticipate the delivery of the next kits. I don't
want to lose momentum but I find myself staring into space trying to
figure out what to accomplish next most efficiently. My wife just told
me yesterday she can't wait until the plane is done because of all the
crap which happened recently with commercial air travel. Give me a push
guys!
Dave Leikam
40496
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | control horn remedy |
here are some pics to go with an earlier post many months ago.
John G.
Don't know why the mammoth ski trip title shows??we will see.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: A bit overwhelmed |
Dave Leikam wrote:
> Also,
>
> Did most builders purchase Van's wiring harness? I am probably going
> to install a different engine that begins with an "E". (Shhhhhhhhhhhh.)
>
Hi Dave,
You might want to ask on the "E" list if the Van's wiring kit is
useful for that installation. Plenty of RV builders on there that I'm
sure would be willing to offer advice. Due to the electrical
requirements of that engine package, I'm not sure how much in the Van's
kit would be applicable, but check with those far more knowledgeable...
-Dj
do not archive
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Engine Mount Hole Alignment to Firewall |
Hi Rob,=0A=0AI don't think the settling is from the engine mount I believe
its from the rubber vibration isolators that go between the engine and the
mount.=0A=0AI had talked to Vans about forcing the engine mount into positi
on on the Firewall and they suggested against it. Having said that, typica
lly in aircraft construction the mechanic is allowed to use whatever force
he can generate by his bare hands only, no tools to get extra leverage. Ap
plying excessive force could reduce the life of the part.=0A=0ANiko=0A40188
=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Rob Wright <armywrights@adelphia
.net>=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 11:5
6:11 PM=0ASubject: RE: RV10-List: Engine Mount Hole Alignment to Firewall
=0A=0A=0AI have =93encouraged=94 my engine mount into position while instal
ling bolts. I wonder what real problems there could be in that little bit
of static tension, as long as it=92s not using a winch to stretch the thing
. I=92m thinking that it may reduce the amount of settling that many exper
ience.=0A =0ARob=0A#392=0ACleaning up emails from a week of vacation ' ne
ed a blackberry!=0A =0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Niko=0ASent: Mon
day, February 12, 2007 10:23 AM=0ATo: Matronics=0ASubject: RV10-List: Engin
e Mount Hole Alignment to Firewall=0A =0AI tried to drill the engine mount
holes in the firewall this weekend. After drilling the left upper hole fir
st (pilots side) I noticed that the firewall pilot hole on the upper right
side is about 3/16 inch off (outboard.) The lower holes are not too bad.
I sent an email to Vans asking if I should simply stretch the engine mount
frame into place since it appears I can pull it into place with just my han
ds (no clamps ). Here is the response.=0A =0A"Since the engine mount weldm
ent moves somewhat when it it =0Aremoved from the jig, we don't expect all
the holes to line up. If =0Aafter drilling the upper left hole, some of th
e other holes seem to be =0Afairly close, drill them first. Drill the uppe
r right hole last. Don't =0Aforce the mount into position."=0A =0AI am inc
luding this since when I did a search on the archives I found references to
forcing the mount into position.=0A =0AFollowing the recommended procedure
it would be interesting if one has to replace an engine mount frame. I ho
pe they all move the same amount after removal from the jig.=0A =0A =0ANiko
================
Message 26
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| Subject: | Reconditioned prop (was IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing)) |
Hi Randy,
That amount of savings sound worth looking into. So is you prop a
Hartzell C2YR-1BFP/F8068D or a different model?
Vern Smith (#324 fuselage)
-----Original Message-----
Hello, I am back from Vacation. I have a rebuilt early prop. The same
one that was on the prototype RV10 when it first flew. I paid 3500.00
outright and had to wait 7 months for the rebuilder to get a nice set of
blades in. He had a nice used hub in stock. Randy
-----Original Message-----
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Reconditioned prop (was IFR RV-10 Budgeting
(ongoing))
I am just speaking from old experience, but I thought I remembered that
Randy had a new prop, but got it before the blended airfoil was
available.
I remember the discussion about his speed being a little less because of
the
older style, but I don't specifically remember if it was new or
reconditioned, and John would know that better, of course. The props I
have
looked at and talked to people about, used and reconditioned, were
pushing
the same price that Van's sells them for, so it was a no brainer to me,
but
saving $1,000 is saving $1,000 when budget is that major.
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
John,
In your reply you mentioned Randy used a reconditioned prop. I thought
the Hartzel for the RV10 was a new design and there were no "used"
propellers available. Is there any more information about possible
reconditioned options?
Vern Smith (#324 fuselage)
-----Original Message-----
Subject: RE: RV10-List: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing)
Randy used a reconditioned prop
and there has been little discussion on the value of that route.
Know your mission, do not sell yourself short.
John Cox
#40600
--
1:44 PM
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing) |
I will echo Chris on this. I am doing pretty much what he is as far as
not paying too much attention to the nickels and dimes and even dollars.
I know what I can afford without thinking too hard. I have a file I
put all the receipts in, but I haven't added anything up yet. Think of
what you spend on the little stuff each day before you built your plane.
One of the very reasons I chose to build is that it doesn't hurt so bad
to pay as you go. I look for deals too. I looked at our credit card
charges the other day with my wife and was amazed at the spending on the
thing. We live off our card, barley ever write checks. But most things
are those everyday life things for home and kids. (And an occasional
part from Gretz.) But we always pay the thing off each month.
(Excessive dept is another story.) In the beginning I thought about how
my plane would rank compared to other builders as far as style and
options and technique. Then I realized this is My Plane, for me and my
family. I will build it how I want. As long as it is safe, and I fly
it safe, and I am happy with it, nothing else matters. There is no
wrong way to build a plane which is safe to fly when completed. If a
person wants a basic VFR or IFR panel and likes it who cares? More
power to them for making the journey at all. All I wanted was a two
seat Ran's folding wing plane on floats. then my wife said we had to
have four seats.
Dave Leikam
40496
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Johnston
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 11:21 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing)
You could do what I did..
First, you figure out how much the aircraft will cost to build, then
file that paper away. Go blindly forth buying and building, and file
away the receipts. Don't calculate your costs EVER during the build.
This will only make you unhappy. Don't try to figure out why you seem
to be over budget (using only mental calculations), this will also make
you unhappy. Try to save money on things, and be proud when you do.
Don't think about the fact that you've bought an extra fuse side skin, 4
extra trim tabs, all the parts necessary for a new baggage door (because
you couldn't live with a 1/8" gap), a new battery tray (because you
countersunk the wrong side when you were building), the countless single
switches from Mouser.com that you buy to evaluate the coolness factor
(and that end up in the "switches" box in the "airplane room").. I'll
cut myself off here because I could go on for awhile remembering parts
that I've screwed up and/or bought and not used.. Anyway, also don't
mind the total and complete deconstruction of the "what expensive is"
portion of your brain. This drives up the cost of an airplane. For
example: I'm at the supermarket, looking at cheese. The Kraft cheese
is $3.00, the fancy cheese is $5.50. You look at it and think, "well,
why not.after all, it's not like it's a $41,000 engine or anything, and
we deserve it for that hard weekend of building that we put in!" After
awhile, the extra $1.50 for cheese turns into leather seats with
seat-heaters. It's only a couple thousand more, and it'll be soooo
nice! This condition should not be confused with the "well, I'll only
build one, so I better make it exactly as neato as I want" condition.
This is the condition whereby you start building an airplane with a
budget and a plan, and then as the aircraft starts to become real,
suddenly (or not so suddenly) you decide that you only want the best for
your baby. This starting to sound familiar to anyone out there? yep.
It does to me. Also I'm a low time pilot who doesn't have a plane
already, and I have to make time to fly. In my area, an IFR 172 that
you'd actually want to fly in IFR conditions runs $130 (wet) an hour.
Oh, and I hadn't budgeted on the cost to get my instrument rating.
Expensive.
Yep. And I'm happy as a clam. Eventually I'll run out of parts or
money, and hopefully both at the same time! for me, I was never much of
a bean counter, and I'm enjoying the process. One day, I'll figure out
how much it cost me in dollars, and it'll seem like a bargain for how
much I've gotten back in experience. Corny, but true. And I'm not even
flying yet.
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James S.
Clark IV
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 7:13 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing)
John,
I'm not sure I followed everything in your post, or how it was meant
to apply to me.
Just to clear things up: I am not interested in a minimalist VFR
panel. I will build an IFR plane or I will buy an IFR TC aircraft. I am
trying to budget these options with some detail.
My mission is quite clear to me: End up with a 4 seat IFR platform
that I can use for several years (it doesn't have to be the top of the
line or my final configuration for the first few years). This platform
may have steam gauges (archer or other) or electronic flight instruments
or glass flight instruments (RV10).
My question was intended to get people's ideas on a reasonable minimal
cost IFR panel for the RV10. It seems that roughly no matter how I cut
it: Quickbuild + Shipping + New Engine +FWF = 100k. Avionics +
Finishing is where I have choices and drastically different costs.
For example one possible IFR option:
2 GRT EFIS 1 + EIS
8000B audio panel
GNS480
DigiFlight-IIVSGV
SL30 NavCom
GTX327
ADI, Alt, AS, Compass
The above adds roughly 33k. The remainder in the spreadsheet version 3
I have sent out seem to come to 14k more (including some nice hidden
costs that Anh sent out)
Naturally, I will do everything within my power and budget not to
"sell myself short".
Best regards,
Jim Clark
-Still learning the ropes...
On Feb 20, 2007, at 9:39 PM, John W. Cox wrote:
<johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
The minimalist panel is not IFR it is VFR as VAN designed with steam
gages. Stay away from induction and control surface icing and get the
most out of a minimalist budget. Save panel real estate for the point
in
time you have the amended perspective. You will be quite pleased. The
only big change since it was first introduced is the inflation rate
applied , by VAN to the kit components and the drying up of used
IO-540
cores as VAN had originally budgeted. Randy used a reconditioned prop
and there has been little discussion on the value of that route.
Know your mission, do not sell yourself short.
John Cox
#40600
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James S.
Clark IV
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 5:53 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing)
<james.s.clark@comcast.net>
Linn, I like the idea on the panel. I'd be interested in hearing more
about your panel choices.
Tim, sorry for the confusion: no I don't plan to borrow all 150k, but
for budgeting I think it is good to plan for the lost earnings that
those dollars could be used for if not tied up in an aircraft (or
toy).
I am interested in cost savings though: Specifically, if an IFR RV-10
is a must (even if using steam gauges), what is the lowest reasonable
target figure? I find it very hard to come in at <130. But I have
heard several say lower. What am I missing?
I have heard the following suggestions which I like very much:
Don't paint right away. -Jesse, how does this change if stored
outside?
Store RV-10 outside (ouch, I don't know if I can live with this). How
well will an RV-10 endure VA weather with covers? If I know up front
it will be stored outside, any special priming areas I should
consider?
Save money on engine - don't get new (with conflicting ideas on how
much this saves) - various posters
Buy steam gauges for first panel (but still IFR), wait to go glass
IFR for later if mission/desires dictate. Try to keep panel
instruments from first panel revision, useful for 2nd panel down the
road. - Linn
Go slow build to save...-various
John, thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate the comparison with the
Archer and like Jesse's idea about fewer wasted pit stops.
Bill, thanks for your comparison of the archer. I would be interested
if you have any numbers on how much savings can be expected in the
maintenance. What would be your yearly numbers for each?
What would others consider a minimalist RV-10 IFR panel?
Thanks for all your help,
Best regards,
Jim Clark
- The RV10-List Email Forum -
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Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: A bit overwhelmed |
Don't forget the wheel pants and cowl ( all fiberglass) and they take as
much time as the cabin cover
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
http://deemsrv10.com/
Vern W. Smith wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time!
>
> Try not to think of it as one giant project. Think and work on bit
> sized projects. When the wing kit arrives, job #1 is inventory parts,
> nothing more. Then just start working on the next chapter. Its much
> easier to think hey Im just building a set of spars or skinning a
> wing than I am going to turn this pile of aluminum into a flying
> airplane. Also if possible find another local builder. There is
> another 10 builder in the local EAA chapter and while we dont work
> much on each others projects, we do kibitz and it does keep us
> motivated. I have to work on the fuselage skins today because I know
> Paul is at the same step and I cant let him get too far ahead;)
>
> As far as fiberglass I personally am holding off on that until the
> cabin top then I will convert my shop over for fiberglass work and do
> all of it as one project.
>
> Vern Smith (#324 fuselage skins)
>
> Do not archive
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Dave Leikam
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 21, 2007 8:47 AM
> *To:* matronics
> *Subject:* RV10-List: A bit overwhelmed
>
> I have come to the end of the plans for the empennage kit on my 10. I
> still have to finish installing the trim servo assembly, and glass
> tail tips, rudder tips, tail strobe...etc. I am waiting on my fuse and
> wings. I need to start accumulating glass supplies, (good posts from
> Gary and John Testement recently) and also get together electrical
> supplies, wire, conduit and so forth. The project suddenly seems a bit
> overwhelming as I anticipate the delivery of the next kits. I don't
> want to lose momentum but I find myself staring into space trying to
> figure out what to accomplish next most efficiently. My wife just told
> me yesterday she can't wait until the plane is done because of all the
> crap which happened recently with commercial air travel. Give me a
> push guys!
>
> Dave Leikam
>
> 40496
>
> * *
> * *
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> * *
> *
>
>
> *
Message 29
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| Subject: | A bit overwhelmed |
Dave,
We bought the Van's harness for N256H because we had absolutely no clue
where to start. We ended up using most of it and making quite a few changes
as well, but it takes that first big step from "no clue where to start" to
"OK, let's see what needs to be tweaked here". With that said, if you spend
a day with someone who has done it, then the Van's harness is probably not
the way to go, because it is sized (wire lengths) for routing things a
specific way with very little flexibility. Now, I could take someone who is
fairly comfortable with handling wire, in a day, and get you beyond where
Van's gets you with their harness, as far as what you need to know to wire
the plane (the way I do it, because there are TONS of different ways to go
about it), and then you can do it exactly how you want to do it. So, this
is about as clear as mud. If you don't have someone close that can help get
started, then get the harness (maybe minus those terrible breakers that you
can't pull off, IMHO) and go from there.
I also don't know how much the "E" engine changes the picture, but I imagine
the main thing would be details rather than the main setup, except maybe the
battery cable, which you could also have held from the harness.
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: A bit overwhelmed
Also,
Did most builders purchase Van's wiring harness? I am probably going to
install a different engine that begins with an "E". (Shhhhhhhhhhhh.)
Dave Leikam
40496
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Leikam <mailto:DAVELEIKAM@wi.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 10:47 AM
Subject: RV10-List: A bit overwhelmed
I have come to the end of the plans for the empennage kit on my 10. I still
have to finish installing the trim servo assembly, and glass tail tips,
rudder tips, tail strobe...etc. I am waiting on my fuse and wings. I need
to start accumulating glass supplies, (good posts from Gary and John
Testement recently) and also get together electrical supplies, wire, conduit
and so forth. The project suddenly seems a bit overwhelming as I anticipate
the delivery of the next kits. I don't want to lose momentum but I find
myself staring into space trying to figure out what to accomplish next most
efficiently. My wife just told me yesterday she can't wait until the plane
is done because of all the crap which happened recently with commercial air
travel. Give me a push guys!
Dave Leikam
40496
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 30
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| Subject: | IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing) |
I could not have said it any better than what Chris, Dave and Tim have already
stated. I am following that same path. All I know about my spending so far, is
that my receipt folder is getting quite thick. With it squished down, it's
exactly 0.5" thick!
The other thing motivating me forward, is that aviation is only getting more
expensive with time. The cost of building a plane today will seem like a bargain
compared to the cost of doing the same several years from now. The cost of
flying will certainly only ever increase over time.
However, even with that said, I still have no idea when i will finish. i more or
less have no control over something i do in my spare time. However, at least, i
can say that i have it started! ;)
Jae
do not archive
Message 31
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| Subject: | IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing) |
This is one part of my life where I don't think too much about the money.
It's not that I don't think about it, of course I do, but to me this is a
legacy to my son. My wife and I put both kids through private high school
(ugh) and spendy colleges (oh, my goodness, ugh). I'll not be able to
retire like many of you, but at least I'll leave a few items to leave
behind. One will be this plane, a couple houses, etc. And when I go, as
the great line in Ocean's 12, I believe it was, I want the last check I
write to bounce.
So....I'm having a good time building. I will have a good, but not great
IFR panel. I will get my IFR rating and learn how to fly much, much better
than I know today. And, if we have a world that will still allow it, I'll
fly the ever loving stuffing out of her before they yank my medical.
John Jessen
#328
Message 32
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| Subject: | Reconditioned prop (was IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing)) |
I have the number at the hanger. Your number is close. It is an 80" with
a short hub. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vern W. Smith
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 11:13 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Reconditioned prop (was IFR RV-10 Budgeting
(ongoing))
Hi Randy,
That amount of savings sound worth looking into. So is you prop a
Hartzell C2YR-1BFP/F8068D or a different model?
Vern Smith (#324 fuselage)
-----Original Message-----
Hello, I am back from Vacation. I have a rebuilt early prop. The same
one that was on the prototype RV10 when it first flew. I paid 3500.00
outright and had to wait 7 months for the rebuilder to get a nice set of
blades in. He had a nice used hub in stock. Randy
-----Original Message-----
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Reconditioned prop (was IFR RV-10 Budgeting
(ongoing))
I am just speaking from old experience, but I thought I remembered that
Randy had a new prop, but got it before the blended airfoil was
available.
I remember the discussion about his speed being a little less because of
the
older style, but I don't specifically remember if it was new or
reconditioned, and John would know that better, of course. The props I
have
looked at and talked to people about, used and reconditioned, were
pushing
the same price that Van's sells them for, so it was a no brainer to me,
but
saving $1,000 is saving $1,000 when budget is that major.
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
John,
In your reply you mentioned Randy used a reconditioned prop. I thought
the Hartzel for the RV10 was a new design and there were no "used"
propellers available. Is there any more information about possible
reconditioned options?
Vern Smith (#324 fuselage)
-----Original Message-----
Subject: RE: RV10-List: IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing)
Randy used a reconditioned prop
and there has been little discussion on the value of that route.
Know your mission, do not sell yourself short.
John Cox
#40600
--
1:44 PM
Message 33
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| Subject: | A bit overwhelmed |
Dave,
I would not recommend the harness (but the instruction that come with it are
useful). There are way too many things that you will ultimately want to
change. Keep in mind that Van's mind set if towards a very basic VFR plane.
The RV-10 deserves much more than plain vanilla systems. I'd be happy to
talk off line.
John Testement
HYPERLINK "mailto:jwt@roadmapscoaching.com"jwt@roadmapscoaching.com
40321
Richmond, VA
FWF, engine, wiring
do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: A bit overwhelmed
Also,
Did most builders purchase Van's wiring harness? I am probably going to
install a different engine that begins with an "E". (Shhhhhhhhhhhh.)
Dave Leikam
40496
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: HYPERLINK "mailto:DAVELEIKAM@wi.rr.com"Dave Leikam
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 10:47 AM
Subject: RV10-List: A bit overwhelmed
I have come to the end of the plans for the empennage kit on my 10. I still
have to finish installing the trim servo assembly, and glass tail tips,
rudder tips, tail strobe...etc. I am waiting on my fuse and wings. I need
to start accumulating glass supplies, (good posts from Gary and John
Testement recently) and also get together electrical supplies, wire, conduit
and so forth. The project suddenly seems a bit overwhelming as I anticipate
the delivery of the next kits. I don't want to lose momentum but I find
myself staring into space trying to figure out what to accomplish next most
efficiently. My wife just told me yesterday she can't wait until the plane
is done because of all the crap which happened recently with commercial air
travel. Give me a push guys!
Dave Leikam
40496
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"http://www.matronics.com/Navig
ator?RV10-List
1:44 PM
--
1:44 PM
Message 34
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| Subject: | Reconditioned prop (was IFR RV-10 Budgeting (ongoing)) |
Randy points to an excellent path. Until the blades disappear like the
IO-540 blocks. Consider reconditioned. VAN holds a spot for you for a
new set of scimitar blades and a new Lycoming when you are ready to step
UP and options are gone.
Be realistic - recycle.
John Cox
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 10:38 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Reconditioned prop (was IFR RV-10 Budgeting
(ongoing))
Hello, I am back from Vacation. I have a rebuilt early prop. The same
one that was on the prototype RV10 when it first flew. I paid 3500.00
outright and had to wait 7 months for the rebuilder to get a nice set of
blades in. He had a nice used hub in stock. Randy
Message 35
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| Subject: | A bit overwhelmed |
Dave - I'll be over with more beer...
Mike (still haven't riveted anything) Doble
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 10:47 AM
Subject: RV10-List: A bit overwhelmed
I have come to the end of the plans for the empennage kit on my 10. I still
have to finish installing the trim servo assembly, and glass tail tips,
rudder tips, tail strobe...etc. I am waiting on my fuse and wings. I need
to start accumulating glass supplies, (good posts from Gary and John
Testement recently) and also get together electrical supplies, wire, conduit
and so forth. The project suddenly seems a bit overwhelming as I anticipate
the delivery of the next kits. I don't want to lose momentum but I find
myself staring into space trying to figure out what to accomplish next most
efficiently. My wife just told me yesterday she can't wait until the plane
is done because of all the crap which happened recently with commercial air
travel. Give me a push guys!
Dave Leikam
40496
Message 36
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|
If you look at the online forum there are 30 pages with the oldest post in December
31, 2006. The formum has a limited retention time. The archives do not
have a time limit.
Jesse, Keep up updated please.
Larry Rosen
#356
--------
Larry Rosen
#40356
N205EN (reserved)
<http>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'608#96608
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: A bit overwhelmed |
O.K. I think I am moving again, thanks guys!
It's my turn to bring the beer to your shop Mike so we can stare at your
aluminum. ;-)
Dave
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Doble (Home Office)
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 8:34 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: A bit overwhelmed
Dave - I'll be over with more beer...
Mike (still haven't riveted anything) Doble
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 10:47 AM
To: matronics
Subject: RV10-List: A bit overwhelmed
I have come to the end of the plans for the empennage kit on my 10. I
still have to finish installing the trim servo assembly, and glass tail
tips, rudder tips, tail strobe...etc. I am waiting on my fuse and
wings. I need to start accumulating glass supplies, (good posts from
Gary and John Testement recently) and also get together electrical
supplies, wire, conduit and so forth. The project suddenly seems a bit
overwhelming as I anticipate the delivery of the next kits. I don't
want to lose momentum but I find myself staring into space trying to
figure out what to accomplish next most efficiently. My wife just told
me yesterday she can't wait until the plane is done because of all the
crap which happened recently with commercial air travel. Give me a push
guys!
Dave Leikam
40496
Message 38
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That's helpful. Thanks!
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryRosen
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 10:53 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: FAA Meeting
If you look at the online forum there are 30 pages with the oldest post in
December 31, 2006. The formum has a limited retention time. The archives
do not have a time limit.
Jesse, Keep up updated please.
Larry Rosen
#356
--------
Larry Rosen
#40356
N205EN (reserved)
<http>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'608#96608
--
1:44 PM
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