Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:37 AM - Re: elevator control horn drilling (Phillips, Jack)
2. 04:40 AM - Re: elevator control horn drilling, spell checked version (MauleDriver)
3. 05:15 AM - Re: Re: Performance Comparison ()
4. 06:07 AM - Re: Do the plastic brake lines leak? (Rick)
5. 06:13 AM - Re: Do the plastic brake lines leak? (jesse@saintaviation.com)
6. 06:19 AM - Re: elevator control horn drilling, spell checked version (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
7. 06:19 AM - Re: Performance Comparison (jesse@saintaviation.com)
8. 06:27 AM - www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org? (Eric Parlow)
9. 06:35 AM - Re: NPRM Process (jesse@saintaviation.com)
10. 06:39 AM - Re: Do the plastic brake lines leak? (Phillips, Jack)
11. 07:12 AM - Re: Performance Comparison (pilotdds@aol.com)
12. 07:56 AM - Re: www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org? (John Jessen)
13. 08:15 AM - Re: elevator control horn drilling, Andair setup (John Gonzalez)
14. 08:26 AM - Re: www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org? (Tim Olson)
15. 08:31 AM - Re: www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org? (Rob Kermanj)
16. 08:32 AM - Re: www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org? (Rob Kermanj)
17. 08:44 AM - Re: elevator control horn drilling, spell checked version (John Gonzalez)
18. 09:21 AM - 51% Committee (Dave Saylor)
19. 09:29 AM - Gotch-Ya (Robin Marks)
20. 09:55 AM - Re: Gotch-Ya (Pascal)
21. 09:58 AM - Re: www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org? (Pascal)
22. 10:13 AM - Something for Tim (John Gonzalez)
23. 10:21 AM - Re: www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org? (Tim Olson)
24. 10:24 AM - Re: Gotch-Ya ()
25. 11:12 AM - aileron pushrod interference (Chris Johnston)
26. 11:38 AM - Re: aileron pushrod interference (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
27. 01:24 PM - Aileron, Flap and Wingtip rigging (Jesse Saint)
28. 02:13 PM - Re: Re: Performance Comparison ()
29. 02:24 PM - Re: Do the plastic brake lines leak? (William Curtis)
30. 02:52 PM - Re: Do the plastic brake lines leak? (John Gonzalez)
31. 03:47 PM - Re: Aileron, Flap and Wingtip rigging (Chris Johnston)
32. 04:37 PM - Re: Do the plastic brake lines leak? (William Curtis)
33. 05:35 PM - Re: elevator control horn drilling, spell checked version (MauleDriver)
34. 06:03 PM - Re: Do the plastic brake lines leak? (John W. Cox)
35. 06:40 PM - Re: 51% Committee (John Ackerman)
36. 08:22 PM - Re: www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org? (Richard Sipp)
37. 08:46 PM - six dimples molded into door shells not there? (Chris Johnston)
38. 08:46 PM - Re: www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org? (McGANN, Ron)
39. 09:30 PM - Fiberglass top rudder fairing not strait. (Dave Leikam)
40. 09:54 PM - Re: Do the plastic brake lines leak? (John Gonzalez)
41. 10:08 PM - Re: Do the plastic brake lines leak? (John Gonzalez)
42. 10:16 PM - Re: Fiberglass top rudder fairing not strait. (John Gonzalez)
Message 1
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| Subject: | elevator control horn drilling |
Bill,
If you end up making a steel doubler for your horn and riveting it on,
let me know. I've got a fair bit of 4130 steel sheet of various
thickness laying around.
Jack Phillips
#40610
Tring to finish the Elevators and get the Pietenpol ready to fly to SNF
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MauleDriver
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: elevator control horn drilling
John, looks like I'm going down a route similar to yours. Thanks for
the pics. What rivets did you use?
John Gonzalez wrote:
<indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>
> I had the additional requirement of needing to align my counter
> balance arms, my horn hole was slightly less than 90 degrees itrue in
> all dimensions. I ended doing the plate and riveting it on to the
horn.
>
> I"ll send picture tomorrow if you are interested.
>
> JOhn G.
>
>
>> From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: elevator control horn drilling
>> Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:25:58 -0500
>>
>>
>> John (or anyone), what was Vans final advice regarding this
>> situation? I may be facing a similar situation with reduced material
>> between the hole and the end of the horn.
>>
>> I've searched the forum but can't find additional references.
>>
>> Thanks
>> do not archive
>>
>> John Gonzalez wrote:
>>> <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Richard,
>>>
>>> I just got off the phone with Van's and asked them to have the
>>> powers that be review the building manual and make a comment about
>>> being careful to respect the up/down dimension of where the drill
>>> will exit out of the second hole on the second horn. Not jus tbe
>>> concerned about the most aft horn being the designated guide.
>>>
>>> I wanted to ask you the minimum edge distance as you stated, is that
>>> in steel or in alluminum?
>>>
>>> I discussed the issue of welding on a plate and and he did not
>>> think that was necessary, there also could be a weakening of the
>>> original material at the intersection of the new plate and the horn.
>>>
>>> Just for discussion, (If I could not sleep because of this) he
>>> discussed an alternate remedy, riveting another plate of similair
>>> material(4130 steel) with say 6 rivets using the same hole, just to
>>> extend the gap between the hole edge and the bottom edge of the
horn.
>>>
>>> As I have stated, I have 6/32 of material on the bottom edge from
>>> hole edge to horn bottom edge, and when this is all torqued down
>>> with washers pinching this together I wonder how exposed to stresses
>>> this 6/32" of material will be. still need to review the
>>> connection, but alteast there are a couple of alternative remedies
>>> other than rework
>>>
>>> JOhn G. 409
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
_________________________________________________
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: elevator control horn drilling, spell checked version |
Very much appreciated John!
Like others, my counterbalances are not perfectly aligned when the
trailing edges are aligned, but oh well.
Bill "Empennage complete except for ##@% elevator horn, starting QB
wings" Watson
40605
John Gonzalez wrote:
>
> I used six 470-4 of the correct length. Daniel Lloyd might be willing
> to send on an extra 4130 steel plate I fabricated after he takes his
> from the two I sent him.
>
> Again, I'll try to explain the basics:
>
> 1) Chose the best hole: usually the one you drilled first.
> 2) Line up you counterbalance arms with the end of the HS. Lock them
> down with clamps, not just Duct tape.
> 3) put your fabricated indexing block that you drilled(Make sure this
> is perfectly 90 degrees in all directions, in other words not the
> cause of the original problem) with a drill press between the two horns.
> 4) Put your drill bit or bolt through the correct hole and through the
> block and see where the second hole is out of alignment.
> 5) slightly enlarge the second hole only where needed.
> 6) Temporarily put the plate you get from Daniel on the outside of the
> elevator horn (the one with the slightly enlarged hole) and mark the
> hole location on the 4130 steel plate.
> 7) Remove the plate and Drill the plate to the correct hole size.
> 8) With the plate off, Drill the plate undersize, say #40 for the six
> rivets where the meat of the horn and the plate is thickest(Away from
> the lightening holes)
> 9) put the plate back on the elevator horn with the nut going through
> both horns and the center drilling block and lock both together with c
> clamps.
> 10) with everything locked down perfectly true(Counterbalance arms,
> etc) thru drill as many of the #40 holes as possible from the plate
> into the elevator horn to size #30. cleco as you go.
> 11) Now that the everything has been indexed while everything is
> locked tight, you can always drill the last remaining hole(s) you
> can't get to by removing the elevator.
> 12) Prime and paint your plate...I used Tempo primer and Tempo
> Propeller paint out the the can.
> 13) Rivet you plate on.
> 14) No reason the six rivets should fail(remember the horns are
> riveted to the ribs and those don't fail), but even if they did the
> original hole is still there in the elevator horn and it is only
> slightly enlarged...you should be able to land and you might not even
> experience any flutter...basically you might not even know.
> 15) I liked this fix better than welding the plate because the welds
> screw up the powder coat and the heat might weaken the part. Welding
> the hole closed and re-drilling...don't like re-drilling into non
> original material.
>
> 15 points that might help, but promise me you will not vote for me for
> anything except President.
> Got to finish this plane before I announce my candacy.
>
> John G.
>
>
>> From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: elevator control horn drilling
>> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 23:29:27 -0400
>>
>>
>> John, looks like I'm going down a route similar to yours. Thanks
>> for the pics. What rivets did you use?
>>
>> John Gonzalez wrote:
>>> <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>>>
>>> I had the additional requirement of needing to align my counter
>>> balance arms, my horn hole was slightly less than 90 degrees itrue
>>> in all dimensions. I ended doing the plate and riveting it on to
>>> the horn.
>>>
>>> I"ll send picture tomorrow if you are interested.
>>>
>>> JOhn G.
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: elevator control horn drilling
>>>> Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:25:58 -0500
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John (or anyone), what was Vans final advice regarding this
>>>> situation? I may be facing a similar situation with reduced
>>>> material between the hole and the end of the horn.
>>>>
>>>> I've searched the forum but can't find additional references.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> do not archive
>>>>
>>>> John Gonzalez wrote:
>>>>> <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Richard,
>>>>>
>>>>> I just got off the phone with Van's and asked them to have the
>>>>> powers that be review the building manual and make a comment about
>>>>> being careful to respect the up/down dimension of where the drill
>>>>> will exit out of the second hole on the second horn. Not jus tbe
>>>>> concerned about the most aft horn being the designated guide.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wanted to ask you the minimum edge distance as you stated, is
>>>>> that in steel or in alluminum?
>>>>>
>>>>> I discussed the issue of welding on a plate and and he did not
>>>>> think that was necessary, there also could be a weakening of the
>>>>> original material at the intersection of the new plate and the horn.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just for discussion, (If I could not sleep because of this) he
>>>>> discussed an alternate remedy, riveting another plate of similair
>>>>> material(4130 steel) with say 6 rivets using the same hole, just
>>>>> to extend the gap between the hole edge and the bottom edge of the
>>>>> horn.
>>>>>
>>>>> As I have stated, I have 6/32 of material on the bottom edge from
>>>>> hole edge to horn bottom edge, and when this is all torqued down
>>>>> with washers pinching this together I wonder how exposed to
>>>>> stresses this 6/32" of material will be. still need to review the
>>>>> connection, but alteast there are a couple of alternative remedies
>>>>> other than rework
>>>>>
>>>>> JOhn G. 409
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Performance Comparison |
But it takes 60 gallons of fuel just to start it up and taxi to the runway! (Grin!)
Do Not Archive!
===========================================================
From: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Performance Comparison
AWW..ya forgot the TBM. Carries 6 people, 1000 mile range at better then
300MPH (more than that if they have removed the armor plating & the "Fish")
Short field & climbs out are smartly. Can carry a ton and is fully aerobatic
too. (for a bomber).
KABONG Do Not Archive BUT I agree the RV-10 is the pick of the litter in
it's class. 8*)
----- Original Message -----
From: <jim@CombsFive.Com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 3:04 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Performance Comparison
> Regarding the comparison to other aircraft:
>
> Here is a performance comparison someone put together a long time ago. I
> have the original power point and would add to it if someone has the
> specific data points for other aircraft of interest. (Bonanza, etc).
>
> I don't know who did this originally, but I did keep a copy.
>
> The points used:
>
> Price, wingspan, length, wing area, empty weight, gross weight, useful
> load, useful load - full fuel, wing loading, power loading, engine
> horsepower, fuel capacity, cruise speed, takeoff performance, landing
> performance, range, climb rate.
>
> Jim Combs
> N312F (40192)
>
===========================================================
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Do the plastic brake lines leak? |
Chris,
I am in the process of replacing the plastic for the same reasons you stated. I
found a dealer with pretty good prices for stainless teflon -3 brake lines. They
are sold in inch sizes and are worth the peace of mind to me to do this upgrade.
go to www.anplumbing.com
type this number minus the quotes into the search window, it will take you to the
page for these lines. "63010112"
After making up my fuel lines, buying the brake lines already assembled makes my
finger tips happy!!
Rick S.
40185
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Do the plastic brake lines leak? |
It does seem a little rinky-dink at first look, but we have not had any
problems with them. Interesting that they go out of the right pedals with
plastic but out of the left pedals with those big metal-braided lines.
Anyway, we have had no problems, but I don't know what will happen in
10-20 years. I haven't heard any general outcry from other RV builders
who have had planes flying for years and years about them, and I think
Van's has used them for quite a while, so my guess is they hold up fairly
well, especially as long as they are hidden from the sun and things like
that. They are also very easy and cheap to replace when needed.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
> Hey all -
>
> Just thought I'd take an informal poll to see whether people were having
> troubles with their plastic brake lines, or in general what people think
> of them? More and more I get the sense that the Vans design on some
> stuff can be summed up as simple, light, and effective when it works.
> Plastic brake lines? The race car builder in me says "nope". The
> airplane builder in me says "I have no clue whether this will break or
> not". Somebody got the straight poop out there?
>
> cj
> #40410
> fuse
> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | elevator control horn drilling, spell checked version |
Just tell me where to send the extra one and I will of course pass it on
to another. I do not see how I could have drilled it any other way. My
edge clearance was not acceptable in my opinion, so I did/will do as
John did and attach the plate. Weight wise it makes little to no
difference.
Just let me know where to send it.
Dan
N289DT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 12:51 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: elevator control horn drilling, spell checked
version
<indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
I used six 470-4 of the correct length. Daniel Lloyd might be willing to
send on an extra 4130 steel plate I fabricated after he takes his from
the
two I sent him.
Again, I'll try to explain the basics:
1) Chose the best hole: usually the one you drilled first.
2) Line up you counterbalance arms with the end of the HS. Lock them
down
with clamps, not just Duct tape.
3) put your fabricated indexing block that you drilled(Make sure this is
perfectly 90 degrees in all directions, in other words not the cause of
the
original problem) with a drill press between the two horns.
4) Put your drill bit or bolt through the correct hole and through the
block
and see where the second hole is out of alignment.
5) slightly enlarge the second hole only where needed.
6) Temporarily put the plate you get from Daniel on the outside of the
elevator horn (the one with the slightly enlarged hole) and mark the
hole
location on the 4130 steel plate.
7) Remove the plate and Drill the plate to the correct hole size.
8) With the plate off, Drill the plate undersize, say #40 for the six
rivets where the meat of the horn and the plate is thickest(Away from
the
lightening holes)
9) put the plate back on the elevator horn with the nut going through
both
horns and the center drilling block and lock both together with c
clamps.
10) with everything locked down perfectly true(Counterbalance arms, etc)
thru drill as many of the #40 holes as possible from the plate into the
elevator horn to size #30. cleco as you go.
11) Now that the everything has been indexed while everything is locked
tight, you can always drill the last remaining hole(s) you can't get to
by
removing the elevator.
12) Prime and paint your plate...I used Tempo primer and Tempo Propeller
paint out the the can.
13) Rivet you plate on.
14) No reason the six rivets should fail(remember the horns are riveted
to
the ribs and those don't fail), but even if they did the original hole
is
still there in the elevator horn and it is only slightly enlarged...you
should be able to land and you might not even experience any
flutter...basically you might not even know.
15) I liked this fix better than welding the plate because the welds
screw
up the powder coat and the heat might weaken the part. Welding the hole
closed and re-drilling...don't like re-drilling into non original
material.
15 points that might help, but promise me you will not vote for me for
anything except President.
Got to finish this plane before I announce my candacy.
John G.
>From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: elevator control horn drilling
>Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 23:29:27 -0400
>
>
>John, looks like I'm going down a route similar to yours. Thanks for
the
>pics. What rivets did you use?
>
>John Gonzalez wrote:
<indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>>
>>I had the additional requirement of needing to align my counter
balance
>>arms, my horn hole was slightly less than 90 degrees itrue in all
>>dimensions. I ended doing the plate and riveting it on to the horn.
>>
>>I"ll send picture tomorrow if you are interested.
>>
>>JOhn G.
>>
>>
>>>From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: Re: RV10-List: elevator control horn drilling
>>>Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:25:58 -0500
>>>
>>>
>>>John (or anyone), what was Vans final advice regarding this
situation? I
>>>may be facing a similar situation with reduced material between the
hole
>>>and the end of the horn.
>>>
>>>I've searched the forum but can't find additional references.
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>do not archive
>>>
>>>John Gonzalez wrote:
>>>><indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Hi Richard,
>>>>
>>>>I just got off the phone with Van's and asked them to have the
powers
>>>>that be review the building manual and make a comment about being
>>>>careful to respect the up/down dimension of where the drill will
exit
>>>>out of the second hole on the second horn. Not jus tbe concerned
about
>>>>the most aft horn being the designated guide.
>>>>
>>>>I wanted to ask you the minimum edge distance as you stated, is that
in
>>>>steel or in alluminum?
>>>>
>>>>I discussed the issue of welding on a plate and and he did not
think
>>>>that was necessary, there also could be a weakening of the original
>>>>material at the intersection of the new plate and the horn.
>>>>
>>>>Just for discussion, (If I could not sleep because of this) he
discussed
>>>>an alternate remedy, riveting another plate of similair
material(4130
>>>>steel) with say 6 rivets using the same hole, just to extend the gap
>>>>between the hole edge and the bottom edge of the horn.
>>>>
>>>>As I have stated, I have 6/32 of material on the bottom edge from
hole
>>>>edge to horn bottom edge, and when this is all torqued down with
washers
>>>>pinching this together I wonder how exposed to stresses this 6/32"
of
>>>>material will be. still need to review the connection, but alteast
>>>>there are a couple of alternative remedies other than rework
>>>>
>>>>JOhn G. 409
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Performance Comparison |
I have also compiled a comparison chart on my website comparing
performance of the RV-10 and several others, both certified and
experimental. It can be seen at www.saintaviation.com/perf.htm. This is
all data that I got from the respective websites.
Speaking of which, has anybody seen the article in Kitplanes about the
Raven 500? They are claiming a max gross 900 lbs over the RV-10, yet
still a 650ft takeoff roll and 1500fpm climb, with the same engine. If
they can do it and still get 197Kts, then more power to them, but I highly
doubt it. Any other thoughts on that? Oh yeah, and how about a
500-600hour build. That would be, no doubt, without finishing (paint,
interior, etc.).
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
> Regarding the comparison to other aircraft:
>
> Here is a performance comparison someone put together a long time ago. I
> have the original power point and would add to it if someone has the
> specific data points for other aircraft of interest. (Bonanza, etc).
>
> I don't know who did this originally, but I did keep a copy.
>
> The points used:
>
> Price, wingspan, length, wing area, empty weight, gross weight, useful
> load, useful load - full fuel, wing loading, power loading, engine
> horsepower, fuel capacity, cruise speed, takeoff performance, landing
> performance, range, climb rate.
>
> Jim Combs
> N312F (40192)
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org? |
Should we?
Shirts, hats, group buys, unique products, etc.....
See:
http://www.cirruspilots.org/
http://www.piperowner.org/
http://www.cessnaowner.org/
http://www.lancairpilots.org/
http://www.maulepilots.org/
http://www.mooneyowners.com/
http://www.mooneypilots.com/
http://www.bonanza.org/
http://www.dapo.org/
http://www.cessna150-152.com/
ERic--
RV-10, 40014
N104EP
Forget all that stuff about lift, gravity, thrust and drag.
An airplane flies because of money.
If God had meant man to fly, He'd have given him more money.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: NPRM Process |
I agree. Very good article
>
> There's a very well written article in this month's Kitiplanes by Ed
> Wischmeyer. It's called "Builder Assistance - Options abound, but
> what kind of help is legal?" I'd have to say, I think he hit the
> nail on the head. (or is it the rivet?)
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Do the plastic brake lines leak? |
My RV-4 is kit #313, flying since 1989 and has the plastic brake lines.
No problems.
Jack Phillips
#40610
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jesse@saintaviation.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Do the plastic brake lines leak?
It does seem a little rinky-dink at first look, but we have not had any
problems with them. Interesting that they go out of the right pedals
with
plastic but out of the left pedals with those big metal-braided lines.
Anyway, we have had no problems, but I don't know what will happen in
10-20 years. I haven't heard any general outcry from other RV builders
who have had planes flying for years and years about them, and I think
Van's has used them for quite a while, so my guess is they hold up
fairly
well, especially as long as they are hidden from the sun and things like
that. They are also very easy and cheap to replace when needed.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
> Hey all -
>
> Just thought I'd take an informal poll to see whether people were
having
> troubles with their plastic brake lines, or in general what people
think
> of them? More and more I get the sense that the Vans design on some
> stuff can be summed up as simple, light, and effective when it works.
> Plastic brake lines? The race car builder in me says "nope". The
> airplane builder in me says "I have no clue whether this will break or
> not". Somebody got the straight poop out there?
>
> cj
> #40410
> fuse
> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
>
_________________________________________________
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Performance Comparison |
Having owned an original comanche and now flying a 10.I think performance is quite
similar.The raven #"s seem realistic exept top/cruise speed seems somewhat
optimistic.The published build time is of course outlandish.
-----Original Message-----
From: jesse@saintaviation.com
Sent: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 6:19 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Performance Comparison
I have also compiled a comparison chart on my website comparing
performance of the RV-10 and several others, both certified and
experimental. It can be seen at www.saintaviation.com/perf.htm. This is
all data that I got from the respective websites.
Speaking of which, has anybody seen the article in Kitplanes about the
Raven 500? They are claiming a max gross 900 lbs over the RV-10, yet
still a 650ft takeoff roll and 1500fpm climb, with the same engine. If
they can do it and still get 197Kts, then more power to them, but I highly
doubt it. Any other thoughts on that? Oh yeah, and how about a
500-600hour build. That would be, no doubt, without finishing (paint,
interior, etc.).
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
> Regarding the comparison to other aircraft:
>
> Here is a performance comparison someone put together a long time ago. I
> have the original power point and would add to it if someone has the
> specific data points for other aircraft of interest. (Bonanza, etc).
>
> I don't know who did this originally, but I did keep a copy.
>
> The points used:
>
> Price, wingspan, length, wing area, empty weight, gross weight, useful
> load, useful load - full fuel, wing loading, power loading, engine
> horsepower, fuel capacity, cruise speed, takeoff performance, landing
> performance, range, climb rate.
>
> Jim Combs
> N312F (40192)
>
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL
at AOL.com.
Message 12
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| Subject: | www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org? |
I'd say, sure, why not. But, careful, don't give Tim any ideas. His
family'll kill him.
John J
#40328
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Parlow
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 6:27 AM
Subject: RV10-List: www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org?
Should we?
Shirts, hats, group buys, unique products, etc.....
See:
http://www.cirruspilots.org/
http://www.piperowner.org/
http://www.cessnaowner.org/
http://www.lancairpilots.org/
http://www.maulepilots.org/
http://www.mooneyowners.com/
http://www.mooneypilots.com/
http://www.bonanza.org/
http://www.dapo.org/
http://www.cessna150-152.com/
ERic--
RV-10, 40014
N104EP
Forget all that stuff about lift, gravity, thrust and drag.
An airplane flies because of money.
If God had meant man to fly, He'd have given him more money.
Message 13
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| Subject: | elevator control horn drilling, Andair setup |
Daniel,
Did you find any problems with my proposed Andair setup. Please, if you
could, float me those battery dimensions in the next day or two.
Thanks,
John
>From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR@wernerco.com>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: elevator control horn drilling, spell checked
>version
>Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 09:18:42 -0400
>
>
>Just tell me where to send the extra one and I will of course pass it on
>to another. I do not see how I could have drilled it any other way. My
>edge clearance was not acceptable in my opinion, so I did/will do as
>John did and attach the plate. Weight wise it makes little to no
>difference.
>Just let me know where to send it.
>Dan
>N289DT
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
>Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 12:51 AM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: elevator control horn drilling, spell checked
>version
>
><indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>
>I used six 470-4 of the correct length. Daniel Lloyd might be willing to
>
>send on an extra 4130 steel plate I fabricated after he takes his from
>the
>two I sent him.
>
>Again, I'll try to explain the basics:
>
>1) Chose the best hole: usually the one you drilled first.
>2) Line up you counterbalance arms with the end of the HS. Lock them
>down
>with clamps, not just Duct tape.
>3) put your fabricated indexing block that you drilled(Make sure this is
>
>perfectly 90 degrees in all directions, in other words not the cause of
>the
>original problem) with a drill press between the two horns.
>4) Put your drill bit or bolt through the correct hole and through the
>block
>and see where the second hole is out of alignment.
>5) slightly enlarge the second hole only where needed.
>6) Temporarily put the plate you get from Daniel on the outside of the
>elevator horn (the one with the slightly enlarged hole) and mark the
>hole
>location on the 4130 steel plate.
>7) Remove the plate and Drill the plate to the correct hole size.
>8) With the plate off, Drill the plate undersize, say #40 for the six
>rivets where the meat of the horn and the plate is thickest(Away from
>the
>lightening holes)
>9) put the plate back on the elevator horn with the nut going through
>both
>horns and the center drilling block and lock both together with c
>clamps.
>10) with everything locked down perfectly true(Counterbalance arms, etc)
>
>thru drill as many of the #40 holes as possible from the plate into the
>elevator horn to size #30. cleco as you go.
>11) Now that the everything has been indexed while everything is locked
>tight, you can always drill the last remaining hole(s) you can't get to
>by
>removing the elevator.
>12) Prime and paint your plate...I used Tempo primer and Tempo Propeller
>
>paint out the the can.
>13) Rivet you plate on.
>14) No reason the six rivets should fail(remember the horns are riveted
>to
>the ribs and those don't fail), but even if they did the original hole
>is
>still there in the elevator horn and it is only slightly enlarged...you
>should be able to land and you might not even experience any
>flutter...basically you might not even know.
>15) I liked this fix better than welding the plate because the welds
>screw
>up the powder coat and the heat might weaken the part. Welding the hole
>closed and re-drilling...don't like re-drilling into non original
>material.
>
>15 points that might help, but promise me you will not vote for me for
>anything except President.
>Got to finish this plane before I announce my candacy.
>
>John G.
>
>
> >From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
> >To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: RV10-List: elevator control horn drilling
> >Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 23:29:27 -0400
> >
> >
> >John, looks like I'm going down a route similar to yours. Thanks for
>the
> >pics. What rivets did you use?
> >
> >John Gonzalez wrote:
><indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
> >>
> >>I had the additional requirement of needing to align my counter
>balance
> >>arms, my horn hole was slightly less than 90 degrees itrue in all
> >>dimensions. I ended doing the plate and riveting it on to the horn.
> >>
> >>I"ll send picture tomorrow if you are interested.
> >>
> >>JOhn G.
> >>
> >>
> >>>From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
> >>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> >>>Subject: Re: RV10-List: elevator control horn drilling
> >>>Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:25:58 -0500
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>John (or anyone), what was Vans final advice regarding this
>situation? I
> >>>may be facing a similar situation with reduced material between the
>hole
> >>>and the end of the horn.
> >>>
> >>>I've searched the forum but can't find additional references.
> >>>
> >>>Thanks
> >>>do not archive
> >>>
> >>>John Gonzalez wrote:
> >>>><indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Hi Richard,
> >>>>
> >>>>I just got off the phone with Van's and asked them to have the
>powers
> >>>>that be review the building manual and make a comment about being
> >>>>careful to respect the up/down dimension of where the drill will
>exit
> >>>>out of the second hole on the second horn. Not jus tbe concerned
>about
> >>>>the most aft horn being the designated guide.
> >>>>
> >>>>I wanted to ask you the minimum edge distance as you stated, is that
>in
> >>>>steel or in alluminum?
> >>>>
> >>>>I discussed the issue of welding on a plate and and he did not
>think
> >>>>that was necessary, there also could be a weakening of the original
> >>>>material at the intersection of the new plate and the horn.
> >>>>
> >>>>Just for discussion, (If I could not sleep because of this) he
>discussed
> >>>>an alternate remedy, riveting another plate of similair
>material(4130
> >>>>steel) with say 6 rivets using the same hole, just to extend the gap
>
> >>>>between the hole edge and the bottom edge of the horn.
> >>>>
> >>>>As I have stated, I have 6/32 of material on the bottom edge from
>hole
> >>>>edge to horn bottom edge, and when this is all torqued down with
>washers
> >>>>pinching this together I wonder how exposed to stresses this 6/32"
>of
> >>>>material will be. still need to review the connection, but alteast
> >>>>there are a couple of alternative remedies other than rework
> >>>>
> >>>>JOhn G. 409
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org? |
I was thinking engraved nametags for OSH. I like the shirt
idea, but the problem is, I'm too happy wearing shirts with
my own plane embroidered on them. I'd be too torn between
the "group" and the "individual" display of RV-10er-ship.
And hats...well, I'm not a cap kind of guy, but many are...so
it's hard to pick a good style. Not that this stuff isn't
good...but I never owned a Van's shirt either...it's just not
my style I guess.
That's how I came to nametags....I've even seen matronics
groups have nametags engraved with the list and the person's
name. Something like that I would buy, even though I made
up my own nametags for OSH previously....and you have them
every day even if you aren't wearing the shirt.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John Jessen wrote:
>
> I'd say, sure, why not. But, careful, don't give Tim any ideas. His
> family'll kill him.
>
> John J
> #40328
>
> do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Parlow
> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 6:27 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org?
>
>
>
> Should we?
>
> Shirts, hats, group buys, unique products, etc.....
>
> See:
> http://www.cirruspilots.org/
> http://www.piperowner.org/
> http://www.cessnaowner.org/
> http://www.lancairpilots.org/
> http://www.maulepilots.org/
> http://www.mooneyowners.com/
> http://www.mooneypilots.com/
> http://www.bonanza.org/
> http://www.dapo.org/
> http://www.cessna150-152.com/
>
> ERic--
> RV-10, 40014
> N104EP
> Forget all that stuff about lift, gravity, thrust and drag.
> An airplane flies because of money.
> If God had meant man to fly, He'd have given him more money.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org? |
Try www.beagleaviation.com. They have made me a RV10 logo to match
my paint scheme and can modify it to match yours also. My logo is
fairly new and not posted on their web site. I can have it posted if
there is interest.
Disclosure: I used to own Beagle Aviation.
do not archive.
On Mar 14, 2007, at 9:26 AM, Eric Parlow wrote:
> <ericparlow@hotmail.com>
>
>
> Should we?
>
> Shirts, hats, group buys, unique products, etc.....
>
> See:
> http://www.cirruspilots.org/
> http://www.piperowner.org/
> http://www.cessnaowner.org/
> http://www.lancairpilots.org/
> http://www.maulepilots.org/
> http://www.mooneyowners.com/
> http://www.mooneypilots.com/
> http://www.bonanza.org/
> http://www.dapo.org/
> http://www.cessna150-152.com/
>
> ERic--
> RV-10, 40014
> N104EP
> Forget all that stuff about lift, gravity, thrust and drag.
> An airplane flies because of money.
> If God had meant man to fly, He'd have given him more money.
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org? |
try www.beagleaviation.com. they have my Rv10 logo already made up
and can modify it to match your paint scheme.
On Mar 14, 2007, at 9:26 AM, Eric Parlow wrote:
> <ericparlow@hotmail.com>
>
>
> Should we?
>
> Shirts, hats, group buys, unique products, etc.....
>
> See:
> http://www.cirruspilots.org/
> http://www.piperowner.org/
> http://www.cessnaowner.org/
> http://www.lancairpilots.org/
> http://www.maulepilots.org/
> http://www.mooneyowners.com/
> http://www.mooneypilots.com/
> http://www.bonanza.org/
> http://www.dapo.org/
> http://www.cessna150-152.com/
>
> ERic--
> RV-10, 40014
> N104EP
> Forget all that stuff about lift, gravity, thrust and drag.
> An airplane flies because of money.
> If God had meant man to fly, He'd have given him more money.
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: elevator control horn drilling, spell checked version |
Bill,
I would not be so sure your trailing edges are perfectly aligned if the
counterbalance arms are off.
I would lock up the counterbalance arms, truing them to the ends of the HS
and then pull a string line between the trailing edges of the two elevators.
When you think about it, because everything was designed by computer and
fabricated by machine the only way I can figure it would be out of wack was
if there is a twist in the elevator spars, which is very possible.
I think more likely there was an issue with the drilling of the second horn,
my drilling block was made by using a shopsmith in drill press mode and the
drill bit creeps and the table was not perfectly true in all directions.
Hence, I since purchased a very nice drill press.
My feeling, see what the string line shows, but I trued the counterbalance
arms based on my thoughts spelled out above. oh, I also had the hole
distance issue on the second horn.
JOhn G.
>From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: elevator control horn drilling, spell checked
>version
>Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 07:40:22 -0400
>
>
>Very much appreciated John!
>
>Like others, my counterbalances are not perfectly aligned when the trailing
>edges are aligned, but oh well.
>
>Bill "Empennage complete except for ##@% elevator horn, starting QB wings"
>Watson
>40605
>
>John Gonzalez wrote:
>>
>>I used six 470-4 of the correct length. Daniel Lloyd might be willing to
>>send on an extra 4130 steel plate I fabricated after he takes his from
>>the two I sent him.
>>
>>Again, I'll try to explain the basics:
>>
>>1) Chose the best hole: usually the one you drilled first.
>>2) Line up you counterbalance arms with the end of the HS. Lock them down
>>with clamps, not just Duct tape.
>>3) put your fabricated indexing block that you drilled(Make sure this is
>>perfectly 90 degrees in all directions, in other words not the cause of
>>the original problem) with a drill press between the two horns.
>>4) Put your drill bit or bolt through the correct hole and through the
>>block and see where the second hole is out of alignment.
>>5) slightly enlarge the second hole only where needed.
>>6) Temporarily put the plate you get from Daniel on the outside of the
>>elevator horn (the one with the slightly enlarged hole) and mark the hole
>>location on the 4130 steel plate.
>>7) Remove the plate and Drill the plate to the correct hole size.
>>8) With the plate off, Drill the plate undersize, say #40 for the six
>>rivets where the meat of the horn and the plate is thickest(Away from the
>>lightening holes)
>>9) put the plate back on the elevator horn with the nut going through both
>>horns and the center drilling block and lock both together with c clamps.
>>10) with everything locked down perfectly true(Counterbalance arms, etc)
>>thru drill as many of the #40 holes as possible from the plate into the
>>elevator horn to size #30. cleco as you go.
>>11) Now that the everything has been indexed while everything is locked
>>tight, you can always drill the last remaining hole(s) you can't get to by
>>removing the elevator.
>>12) Prime and paint your plate...I used Tempo primer and Tempo Propeller
>>paint out the the can.
>>13) Rivet you plate on.
>>14) No reason the six rivets should fail(remember the horns are riveted to
>>the ribs and those don't fail), but even if they did the original hole is
>>still there in the elevator horn and it is only slightly enlarged...you
>>should be able to land and you might not even experience any
>>flutter...basically you might not even know.
>>15) I liked this fix better than welding the plate because the welds screw
>>up the powder coat and the heat might weaken the part. Welding the hole
>>closed and re-drilling...don't like re-drilling into non original
>>material.
>>
>>15 points that might help, but promise me you will not vote for me for
>>anything except President.
>>Got to finish this plane before I announce my candacy.
>>
>>John G.
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: Re: RV10-List: elevator control horn drilling
>>>Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 23:29:27 -0400
>>>
>>>
>>>John, looks like I'm going down a route similar to yours. Thanks for
>>>the pics. What rivets did you use?
>>>
>>>John Gonzalez wrote:
>>>><indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>>>>
>>>>I had the additional requirement of needing to align my counter balance
>>>>arms, my horn hole was slightly less than 90 degrees itrue in all
>>>>dimensions. I ended doing the plate and riveting it on to the horn.
>>>>
>>>>I"ll send picture tomorrow if you are interested.
>>>>
>>>>JOhn G.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>>>>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>>>Subject: Re: RV10-List: elevator control horn drilling
>>>>>Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:25:58 -0500
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>John (or anyone), what was Vans final advice regarding this situation?
>>>>>I may be facing a similar situation with reduced material between the
>>>>>hole and the end of the horn.
>>>>>
>>>>>I've searched the forum but can't find additional references.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks
>>>>>do not archive
>>>>>
>>>>>John Gonzalez wrote:
>>>>>><indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi Richard,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I just got off the phone with Van's and asked them to have the powers
>>>>>>that be review the building manual and make a comment about being
>>>>>>careful to respect the up/down dimension of where the drill will exit
>>>>>>out of the second hole on the second horn. Not jus tbe concerned about
>>>>>>the most aft horn being the designated guide.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I wanted to ask you the minimum edge distance as you stated, is that
>>>>>>in steel or in alluminum?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I discussed the issue of welding on a plate and and he did not think
>>>>>>that was necessary, there also could be a weakening of the original
>>>>>>material at the intersection of the new plate and the horn.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Just for discussion, (If I could not sleep because of this) he
>>>>>>discussed an alternate remedy, riveting another plate of similair
>>>>>>material(4130 steel) with say 6 rivets using the same hole, just to
>>>>>>extend the gap between the hole edge and the bottom edge of the horn.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>As I have stated, I have 6/32 of material on the bottom edge from hole
>>>>>>edge to horn bottom edge, and when this is all torqued down with
>>>>>>washers pinching this together I wonder how exposed to stresses this
>>>>>>6/32" of material will be. still need to review the connection, but
>>>>>>alteast there are a couple of alternative remedies other than rework
>>>>>>
>>>>>>JOhn G. 409
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 18
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Thanks for all the replies. I recieved more this time than from any other
post!
I have all your input recorded. It is much along the same lines: maintain
legitimate homebuilders' current rights and don't allow abusers of the
current rule to keep pushing the envelope. Builder training is OK, even if
the training occurs on the customer's project, but build to order, with the
owner largely absent, is unfair.
Keep 'em coming,
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
Message 19
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In the last few days I came across an RV-10 Gotch-Ya list. I can no
longer locate that page on the internet. Can someone other than Tim
point me in the right direction? I am sure Tim is too busy fighting
crime while simultaneously working on a solution for global climate
change.
Thanks,
Robin Marks
RV-6A 350 Hours
RV-10 Parts
Do Not Archive
Message 20
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http://www.myrv10.com/tips/gotchas.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Robin Marks
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 9:28 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Gotch-Ya
In the last few days I came across an RV-10 Gotch-Ya list. I can no
longer locate that page on the internet. Can someone other than Tim
point me in the right direction? I am sure Tim is too busy fighting
crime while simultaneously working on a solution for global climate
change.
Thanks,
Robin Marks
RV-6A 350 Hours
RV-10 Parts
Do Not Archive
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org? |
Tim;
How about you take a picture of the nametag so we can see what it would look
like?
Thx
Pascal
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 8:26 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org?
>
> I was thinking engraved nametags for OSH. I like the shirt
> idea, but the problem is, I'm too happy wearing shirts with
> my own plane embroidered on them. I'd be too torn between
> the "group" and the "individual" display of RV-10er-ship.
> And hats...well, I'm not a cap kind of guy, but many are...so
> it's hard to pick a good style. Not that this stuff isn't
> good...but I never owned a Van's shirt either...it's just not
> my style I guess.
>
> That's how I came to nametags....I've even seen matronics
> groups have nametags engraved with the list and the person's
> name. Something like that I would buy, even though I made
> up my own nametags for OSH previously....and you have them
> every day even if you aren't wearing the shirt.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> John Jessen wrote:
>>
>> I'd say, sure, why not. But, careful, don't give Tim any ideas. His
>> family'll kill him. John J
>> #40328 do not archive -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Parlow
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 6:27 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RV10-List: www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org?
>>
>>
>>
>> Should we?
>>
>> Shirts, hats, group buys, unique products, etc.....
>>
>> See:
>> http://www.cirruspilots.org/
>> http://www.piperowner.org/
>> http://www.cessnaowner.org/
>> http://www.lancairpilots.org/
>> http://www.maulepilots.org/
>> http://www.mooneyowners.com/
>> http://www.mooneypilots.com/
>> http://www.bonanza.org/
>> http://www.dapo.org/
>> http://www.cessna150-152.com/
>>
>> ERic--
>> RV-10, 40014
>> N104EP
>> Forget all that stuff about lift, gravity, thrust and drag.
>> An airplane flies because of money.
>> If God had meant man to fly, He'd have given him more money.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Something for Tim |
I was looking at this the other day and found it quite interesting. Thought
that some of you might find it interesting also. Now we are talking
propeller technology. The efficiency is pretty damm good for the 1.5KW fan.
http://ge.ecomagination.com/@v=030820071036@/site/index.html?kw=ge%20wind%20energy&c_id=brandedwind#wind
John G. 409 Do not archive
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org? |
I just had a plain black on silver
Tim Olson
RV-10 N104CD
But, if we were doing a group thing, we'd just have to get
someone to draw up a proposed logo or whatever and then we
could take it from there adding the name, RV-10, and n-number
if they have one.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Pascal wrote:
>
> Tim;
> How about you take a picture of the nametag so we can see what it would
> look like?
> Thx
> Pascal
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 8:26 AM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org?
>
>
>>
>> I was thinking engraved nametags for OSH. I like the shirt
>> idea, but the problem is, I'm too happy wearing shirts with
>> my own plane embroidered on them. I'd be too torn between
>> the "group" and the "individual" display of RV-10er-ship.
>> And hats...well, I'm not a cap kind of guy, but many are...so
>> it's hard to pick a good style. Not that this stuff isn't
>> good...but I never owned a Van's shirt either...it's just not
>> my style I guess.
>>
>> That's how I came to nametags....I've even seen matronics
>> groups have nametags engraved with the list and the person's
>> name. Something like that I would buy, even though I made
>> up my own nametags for OSH previously....and you have them
>> every day even if you aren't wearing the shirt.
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> John Jessen wrote:
>>>
>>> I'd say, sure, why not. But, careful, don't give Tim any ideas. His
>>> family'll kill him. John J
>>> #40328 do not archive -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Parlow
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 6:27 AM
>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: RV10-List: www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Should we?
>>>
>>> Shirts, hats, group buys, unique products, etc.....
>>>
>>> See:
>>> http://www.cirruspilots.org/
>>> http://www.piperowner.org/
>>> http://www.cessnaowner.org/
>>> http://www.lancairpilots.org/
>>> http://www.maulepilots.org/
>>> http://www.mooneyowners.com/
>>> http://www.mooneypilots.com/
>>> http://www.bonanza.org/
>>> http://www.dapo.org/
>>> http://www.cessna150-152.com/
>>>
>>> ERic--
>>> RV-10, 40014
>>> N104EP
>>> Forget all that stuff about lift, gravity, thrust and drag.
>>> An airplane flies because of money.
>>> If God had meant man to fly, He'd have given him more money.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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http://myrv10.com/tips/gotchas.html
>
> From: "Robin Marks" <robin1@mrmoisture.com>
> Date: 2007/03/14 Wed AM 11:28:14 EST
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: Gotch-Ya
>
> In the last few days I came across an RV-10 Gotch-Ya list. I can no
> longer locate that page on the internet. Can someone other than Tim
> point me in the right direction? I am sure Tim is too busy fighting
> crime while simultaneously working on a solution for global climate
> change.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Robin Marks
>
> RV-6A 350 Hours
>
> RV-10 Parts
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | aileron pushrod interference |
Hey all -
I'm skipping around a bit in the plans, and when I finally got around to
mounting my autopilot servo and aileron actuation stuff, I think I have
a problem. When I move the aileron to full down, the w-1018 aileron
pushrod rubs against the w-1013 aileron attach bracket. I've checked
that I set the neutral position properly, and everything measures out,
but I'm running into this interference. It actually makes contact with
the shop head of the aileron attach bracket right at the end of it's
travel. I have the teardrop shaped hole in the rear spar, and that's
not where it's rubbing. Just the attach bracket. Any clues out there?
Thanks
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
do not archive
Message 26
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| Subject: | aileron pushrod interference |
If you have not mounted both ailerons at the same time this will happen,
as one acts as the stop for the other.
Dan
N289DT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Johnston
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 2:12 PM
Subject: RV10-List: aileron pushrod interference
<CJohnston@popsound.com>
Hey all -
I'm skipping around a bit in the plans, and when I finally got around to
mounting my autopilot servo and aileron actuation stuff, I think I have
a problem. When I move the aileron to full down, the w-1018 aileron
pushrod rubs against the w-1013 aileron attach bracket. I've checked
that I set the neutral position properly, and everything measures out,
but I'm running into this interference. It actually makes contact with
the shop head of the aileron attach bracket right at the end of it's
travel. I have the teardrop shaped hole in the rear spar, and that's
not where it's rubbing. Just the attach bracket. Any clues out there?
Thanks
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
do not archive
Message 27
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| Subject: | Aileron, Flap and Wingtip rigging |
This similar issue has been on the list a LOT lately, so I thought it would
be good to outline the way I rig the wings. For those of you who haven't
done this yet, make note of the problems people think they have before they
hook both ailerons together.
Here goes (again, just my way. YMMV):
The control rods can be set to neutral without the aileron on the wing, just
by the measurement from the bell crank in the wing root and the little jig
in the wing. This doesn't require the aileron and is easiest done with the
wing off the plane, upside down on a table or in a cradle.
Bolt the wing to the plane (it can just be pinned if you are planning to
remove it later), hook up the flaps and rig them together and to the flap
motor so everything works right and they are equally in the up position
(this is a good time to look at how the flaps line up to the wing, as you
can measure the distance from the trailing edge skin to a line on the flaps,
like the spar rivet line), then hook up the aileron and set it with the flap
and adjust the pushrod between the aileron itself and the bellcrank with the
jig at the bellcrank. When this is done, everything in that wing should be
rigged (the wingtip can be done at this time or you can proceed to the other
wing). A spring clamp between the flap and the aileron is a good way to
hold them in neutral.
Do the same thing to the other wing.
Make sure you have connected the control sticks together and that they are
equal (both vertical at the same time, not toed in or out). Hook up the
control rods between the sticks and the wing root. You can do one at a
time, adjusting it to keep the control sticks level (plumb, vertical), with
the clamp still holding the aileron in neutral, which should already have
the outboard bellcrank in neutral and the wing root bellcrank (or whatever
that one is called) in neutral.
When the whole system is connected (you don't necessarily need all of the
washers or nuts on the bolts yet), then you can tighten up all of the jam
nuts on the controls (I use a little bit of locktite on the rod end and the
jam nut, just in case). Then remove the clamps holding the ailerons and
move the ailerons through their full range of movement, making sure there is
no erroneous rubbing anywhere except where the stops are supposed to be (I
don't remember where that is right now, but it should be pretty obvious, and
the stop should be at the same place on both wings). Note that the stop on
one aileron will also be the opposite stop for the other aileron and vice
versa.
Now, you should mount the wingtips to the ailerons to make sure they are
matching the neutral position. If you don't get this right the first time
it can be a pain in the neck to get it to look right and fly right (don't
ask me how I know).
Hope this helps.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnston
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 2:12 PM
Subject: RV10-List: aileron pushrod interference
Hey all -
I'm skipping around a bit in the plans, and when I finally got around to
mounting my autopilot servo and aileron actuation stuff, I think I have
a problem. When I move the aileron to full down, the w-1018 aileron
pushrod rubs against the w-1013 aileron attach bracket. I've checked
that I set the neutral position properly, and everything measures out,
but I'm running into this interference. It actually makes contact with
the shop head of the aileron attach bracket right at the end of it's
travel. I have the teardrop shaped hole in the rear spar, and that's
not where it's rubbing. Just the attach bracket. Any clues out there?
Thanks
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
do not archive
--
4:51 PM
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: Performance Comparison |
Did you see the cost of the kit? 90K
and the estimate of a finished airplane? 250K
Jim C
Do Not Archive
===========================================================
From: jesse@saintaviation.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Performance Comparison
I have also compiled a comparison chart on my website comparing
performance of the RV-10 and several others, both certified and
experimental. It can be seen at www.saintaviation.com/perf.htm. This is
all data that I got from the respective websites.
Speaking of which, has anybody seen the article in Kitplanes about the
Raven 500? They are claiming a max gross 900 lbs over the RV-10, yet
still a 650ft takeoff roll and 1500fpm climb, with the same engine. If
they can do it and still get 197Kts, then more power to them, but I highly
doubt it. Any other thoughts on that? Oh yeah, and how about a
500-600hour build. That would be, no doubt, without finishing (paint,
interior, etc.).
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
> Regarding the comparison to other aircraft:
>
> Here is a performance comparison someone put together a long time ago. I
> have the original power point and would add to it if someone has the
> specific data points for other aircraft of interest. (Bonanza, etc).
>
> I don't know who did this originally, but I did keep a copy.
>
> The points used:
>
> Price, wingspan, length, wing area, empty weight, gross weight, useful
> load, useful load - full fuel, wing loading, power loading, engine
> horsepower, fuel capacity, cruise speed, takeoff performance, landing
> performance, range, climb rate.
>
> Jim Combs
> N312F (40192)
>
===========================================================
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Do the plastic brake lines leak? |
=0A=0AGuys, =0A=0AAsk yourself, what is the worst case scenari
o if the plastic portion of the brake system broke?- Unless it broke at t
he pilot side tubes, only the co-pilot will not be able to brake and you wo
uld have a mess of red fluid.- Even if it broke at the pilot side tubes y
ou should still have enough fluid for at least one brake application from t
he pilot position.- The plastic portion is relatively low pressure and a
break there should not cause a failure of the entire system.- Certainly o
ther than plastic tube is great, but worth the change from the stock design
? Ah? =0A=0AUnlike our recent axle support re-design, this would be
of dubious added value.=0A=0AWilliam=0Ahttp://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
=0A=0A----------------------------------------=0A=0A --> RV10-L
ist message posted by: Rick =0A=0AChris,=0A=0AI am in the proce
ss of replacing the plastic for the same reasons you stated. I found a deal
er with pretty good prices for stainless teflon -3 brake lines. They are so
ld in inch sizes and are worth the peace of mind to me to do this upgrade.
=0A=0Ago to www.anplumbing.com=0A=0Atype this number minus the
quotes into the search window, it will take you to the page for these lines
. "63010112"=0A=0AAfter making up my fuel lines, buying the brake lin
es already assembled makes my finger tips happy!!=0A=0ARick S.=0A4
======0A=0A
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Re: Do the plastic brake lines leak? |
Where in this system is the one way valve located(Backflow device)?
In otherwards, when the pedal is pressed does the pressure only go out of
the the bottom fitting in the cylinder or is the backflow valve in the base
of the brake fluid reservior.
John G.
Do NOt Archive
>From: "William Curtis" <wcurtis@nerv10.com>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>, <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Do the plastic brake lines leak?
>Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 16:28:05 -0500
>
>
>Guys,
>
>Ask yourself, what is the worst case scenario if the plastic portion of the
>brake system broke? Unless it broke at the pilot side tubes, only the
>co-pilot will not be able to brake and you would have a mess of red fluid.
>Even if it broke at the pilot side tubes you should still have enough fluid
>for at least one brake application from the pilot position. The plastic
>portion is relatively low pressure and a break there should not cause a
>failure of the entire system. Certainly other than plastic tube is great,
>but worth the change from the stock design? Ah?
>
>Unlike our recent axle support re-design, this would be of dubious added
>value.
>
>William
>http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
>
>----------------------------------------
>
>
>Chris,
>
>I am in the process of replacing the plastic for the same reasons you
>stated. I found a dealer with pretty good prices for stainless teflon -3
>brake lines. They are sold in inch sizes and are worth the peace of mind to
>me to do this upgrade.
>
>go to www.anplumbing.com
>
>type this number minus the quotes into the search window, it will take you
>to the page for these lines. "63010112"
>
>After making up my fuel lines, buying the brake lines already assembled
>makes my finger tips happy!!
>
>Rick S.
>4====
>
>
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Aileron, Flap and Wingtip rigging |
Thanks everyone for their input. I'm starting to get a clearer picture,
and hopefully mine is ok. Just to put my mind at ease, can someone
who's flying measure the distance from the trailing edge of the flap (up
position) to the trailing edge of the aileron at full down deflection?
I just want to be sure that I'm ok, because fixing a problem here would
be much easier now than later! And I'm a ways off from bolting the
wings on. Pretty please!!!
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 1:23 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Aileron, Flap and Wingtip rigging
This similar issue has been on the list a LOT lately, so I thought it
would
be good to outline the way I rig the wings. For those of you who
haven't
done this yet, make note of the problems people think they have before
they
hook both ailerons together.
Here goes (again, just my way. YMMV):
The control rods can be set to neutral without the aileron on the wing,
just
by the measurement from the bell crank in the wing root and the little
jig
in the wing. This doesn't require the aileron and is easiest done with
the
wing off the plane, upside down on a table or in a cradle.
Bolt the wing to the plane (it can just be pinned if you are planning to
remove it later), hook up the flaps and rig them together and to the
flap
motor so everything works right and they are equally in the up position
(this is a good time to look at how the flaps line up to the wing, as
you
can measure the distance from the trailing edge skin to a line on the
flaps,
like the spar rivet line), then hook up the aileron and set it with the
flap
and adjust the pushrod between the aileron itself and the bellcrank with
the
jig at the bellcrank. When this is done, everything in that wing should
be
rigged (the wingtip can be done at this time or you can proceed to the
other
wing). A spring clamp between the flap and the aileron is a good way to
hold them in neutral.
Do the same thing to the other wing.
Make sure you have connected the control sticks together and that they
are
equal (both vertical at the same time, not toed in or out). Hook up the
control rods between the sticks and the wing root. You can do one at a
time, adjusting it to keep the control sticks level (plumb, vertical),
with
the clamp still holding the aileron in neutral, which should already
have
the outboard bellcrank in neutral and the wing root bellcrank (or
whatever
that one is called) in neutral.
When the whole system is connected (you don't necessarily need all of
the
washers or nuts on the bolts yet), then you can tighten up all of the
jam
nuts on the controls (I use a little bit of locktite on the rod end and
the
jam nut, just in case). Then remove the clamps holding the ailerons and
move the ailerons through their full range of movement, making sure
there is
no erroneous rubbing anywhere except where the stops are supposed to be
(I
don't remember where that is right now, but it should be pretty obvious,
and
the stop should be at the same place on both wings). Note that the stop
on
one aileron will also be the opposite stop for the other aileron and
vice
versa.
Now, you should mount the wingtips to the ailerons to make sure they are
matching the neutral position. If you don't get this right the first
time
it can be a pain in the neck to get it to look right and fly right
(don't
ask me how I know).
Hope this helps.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Johnston
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 2:12 PM
Subject: RV10-List: aileron pushrod interference
<CJohnston@popsound.com>
Hey all -
I'm skipping around a bit in the plans, and when I finally got around to
mounting my autopilot servo and aileron actuation stuff, I think I have
a problem. When I move the aileron to full down, the w-1018 aileron
pushrod rubs against the w-1013 aileron attach bracket. I've checked
that I set the neutral position properly, and everything measures out,
but I'm running into this interference. It actually makes contact with
the shop head of the aileron attach bracket right at the end of it's
travel. I have the teardrop shaped hole in the rear spar, and that's
not where it's rubbing. Just the attach bracket. Any clues out there?
Thanks
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
do not archive
--
4:51 PM
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: Do the plastic brake lines leak? |
Not sure I understand your question but here is a schematic of the Matco b
rake master cylinder. - http://matco.elixirlabs.com/users/matco/images/MC
-4A_install.jpg - This is roughly the RV-10 system, just with the pilot a
nd co-pilot position reversed.- No check valves (anti "backflow device").
http://matco.elixirlabs.com/users/matco/images/mastercylinder20a.jpg - I
f the plastic portion was to break, as long as there was some fluid in them
, they would effectively become mini-individual fluid reservoirs. -The im
portant lines are the last lines leaving the cylinders to the calipers.-
In our kits, these are steel braded.- Everything above them can be consid
ered reservoir. - Remember aircraft brake systems are not like auto brake
systems which is why you bleed by pumping from the "bottom" or sucking fro
m the "top" - From the top http://matco.elixirlabs.com/users/matco/images
/VACUUMBLEED.jpg - From the bottom http://matco.elixirlabs.com/users/matc
o/images/PRESS_BLEED.jpg=0A=0AWilliam=0Ahttp://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
=0A=0A----------------------------------------=0A --> RV10-List
message posted by: "John Gonzalez" =0A=0AWhere in this system is the
one way valve located(Backflow device)?=0A=0AIn otherwards, when the
pedal is pressed does the pressure only go out of =0Athe the bottom fitt
ing in the cylinder or is the backflow valve in the base =0Aof the brake
fluid reservior.=0A=0AJohn G.=0A=0ADo NOt Archive=0A=0A>
=0A>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Do the plastic brake lines leak?=0A>Date
: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 16:28:05 -0500=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Guys,=0A>
=0A>Ask yourself, what is the worst case scenario if the plastic portion
of the =0A>brake system broke?- Unless it broke at the pilot side tub
es, only the =0A>co-pilot will not be able to brake and you would have a
mess of red fluid.- =0A>Even if it broke at the pilot side tubes you
should still have enough fluid =0A>for at least one brake application fr
om the pilot position.- The plastic =0A>portion is relatively low pres
sure and a break there should not cause a =0A>failure of the entire syst
em.- Certainly other than plastic tube is great, =0A>but worth the cha
nge from the stock design? Ah?=0A>=0A>Unlike our recent axle support
re-design, this would be of dubious added =0A>value.=0A>=0A>Willia
m=0A>http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/=0A>=0A>---------------------------
=0A>Chris,=0A>=0A>I am in the process of replacing the plastic for th
e same reasons you =0A>stated. I found a dealer with pretty good prices
for stainless teflon -3 =0A>brake lines. They are sold in inch sizes and
are worth the peace of mind to =0A>me to do this upgrade.=0A>=0A>
go to www.anplumbing.com=0A>=0A>type this number minus the quotes int
o the search window, it will take you =0A>to the page for these lines. "
63010112"=0A>=0A>After making up my fuel lines, buying the brake line
s already assembled =0A>makes my finger tips happy!!=0A>=0A>Rick S
==================0A=0A
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: elevator control horn drilling, spell checked version |
Hmmm. I will check it with a string (perhaps there's a laser in there
somewhere). Eyeballing it seems pretty clear but I'm all learning curve
at this point. It should all line up (weldments excepted).
Thanks for the extra plate.
Bill "Fix the elevator horn" Watson
'605
John Gonzalez wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> I would not be so sure your trailing edges are perfectly aligned if
> the counterbalance arms are off.
>
> I would lock up the counterbalance arms, truing them to the ends of
> the HS and then pull a string line between the trailing edges of the
> two elevators. When you think about it, because everything was
> designed by computer and fabricated by machine the only way I can
> figure it would be out of wack was if there is a twist in the elevator
> spars, which is very possible.
>
> I think more likely there was an issue with the drilling of the second
> horn, my drilling block was made by using a shopsmith in drill press
> mode and the drill bit creeps and the table was not perfectly true in
> all directions. Hence, I since purchased a very nice drill press.
>
> My feeling, see what the string line shows, but I trued the
> counterbalance arms based on my thoughts spelled out above. oh, I also
> had the hole distance issue on the second horn.
>
> JOhn G.
>
>
>> From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: elevator control horn drilling, spell checked
>> version
>> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 07:40:22 -0400
>>
>>
>> Very much appreciated John!
>>
>> Like others, my counterbalances are not perfectly aligned when the
>> trailing edges are aligned, but oh well.
>>
>> Bill "Empennage complete except for ##@% elevator horn, starting QB
>> wings" Watson
>> 40605
>>
>> John Gonzalez wrote:
>>> <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>>>
>>> I used six 470-4 of the correct length. Daniel Lloyd might be
>>> willing to send on an extra 4130 steel plate I fabricated after he
>>> takes his from the two I sent him.
>>>
>>> Again, I'll try to explain the basics:
>>>
>>> 1) Chose the best hole: usually the one you drilled first.
>>> 2) Line up you counterbalance arms with the end of the HS. Lock them
>>> down with clamps, not just Duct tape.
>>> 3) put your fabricated indexing block that you drilled(Make sure
>>> this is perfectly 90 degrees in all directions, in other words not
>>> the cause of the original problem) with a drill press between the
>>> two horns.
>>> 4) Put your drill bit or bolt through the correct hole and through
>>> the block and see where the second hole is out of alignment.
>>> 5) slightly enlarge the second hole only where needed.
>>> 6) Temporarily put the plate you get from Daniel on the outside of
>>> the elevator horn (the one with the slightly enlarged hole) and mark
>>> the hole location on the 4130 steel plate.
>>> 7) Remove the plate and Drill the plate to the correct hole size.
>>> 8) With the plate off, Drill the plate undersize, say #40 for the
>>> six rivets where the meat of the horn and the plate is thickest(Away
>>> from the lightening holes)
>>> 9) put the plate back on the elevator horn with the nut going
>>> through both horns and the center drilling block and lock both
>>> together with c clamps.
>>> 10) with everything locked down perfectly true(Counterbalance arms,
>>> etc) thru drill as many of the #40 holes as possible from the plate
>>> into the elevator horn to size #30. cleco as you go.
>>> 11) Now that the everything has been indexed while everything is
>>> locked tight, you can always drill the last remaining hole(s) you
>>> can't get to by removing the elevator.
>>> 12) Prime and paint your plate...I used Tempo primer and Tempo
>>> Propeller paint out the the can.
>>> 13) Rivet you plate on.
>>> 14) No reason the six rivets should fail(remember the horns are
>>> riveted to the ribs and those don't fail), but even if they did the
>>> original hole is still there in the elevator horn and it is only
>>> slightly enlarged...you should be able to land and you might not
>>> even experience any flutter...basically you might not even know.
>>> 15) I liked this fix better than welding the plate because the welds
>>> screw up the powder coat and the heat might weaken the part. Welding
>>> the hole closed and re-drilling...don't like re-drilling into non
>>> original material.
>>>
>>> 15 points that might help, but promise me you will not vote for me
>>> for anything except President.
>>> Got to finish this plane before I announce my candacy.
>>>
>>> John G.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: elevator control horn drilling
>>>> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 23:29:27 -0400
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John, looks like I'm going down a route similar to yours. Thanks
>>>> for the pics. What rivets did you use?
>>>>
>>>> John Gonzalez wrote:
>>>>> <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> I had the additional requirement of needing to align my counter
>>>>> balance arms, my horn hole was slightly less than 90 degrees itrue
>>>>> in all dimensions. I ended doing the plate and riveting it on to
>>>>> the horn.
>>>>>
>>>>> I"ll send picture tomorrow if you are interested.
>>>>>
>>>>> JOhn G.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>>>>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: elevator control horn drilling
>>>>>> Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:25:58 -0500
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John (or anyone), what was Vans final advice regarding this
>>>>>> situation? I may be facing a similar situation with reduced
>>>>>> material between the hole and the end of the horn.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've searched the forum but can't find additional references.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> do not archive
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John Gonzalez wrote:
>>>>>>> <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Richard,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just got off the phone with Van's and asked them to have the
>>>>>>> powers that be review the building manual and make a comment
>>>>>>> about being careful to respect the up/down dimension of where
>>>>>>> the drill will exit out of the second hole on the second horn.
>>>>>>> Not jus tbe concerned about the most aft horn being the
>>>>>>> designated guide.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wanted to ask you the minimum edge distance as you stated, is
>>>>>>> that in steel or in alluminum?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I discussed the issue of welding on a plate and and he did not
>>>>>>> think that was necessary, there also could be a weakening of the
>>>>>>> original material at the intersection of the new plate and the
>>>>>>> horn.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just for discussion, (If I could not sleep because of this) he
>>>>>>> discussed an alternate remedy, riveting another plate of
>>>>>>> similair material(4130 steel) with say 6 rivets using the same
>>>>>>> hole, just to extend the gap between the hole edge and the
>>>>>>> bottom edge of the horn.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As I have stated, I have 6/32 of material on the bottom edge
>>>>>>> from hole edge to horn bottom edge, and when this is all torqued
>>>>>>> down with washers pinching this together I wonder how exposed to
>>>>>>> stresses this 6/32" of material will be. still need to review
>>>>>>> the connection, but alteast there are a couple of alternative
>>>>>>> remedies other than rework
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> JOhn G. 409
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Do the plastic brake lines leak? |
As a result of so many other aircraft having problems with the plastic
lines provided, I am following the path to safety of the plastic
aircraft builders and choosing the prudent course. Non-plastic.
Is seems easier to learn from the practices of those with real field
experience than trust an untrained path of technical help that they
might be okay.. but try them anyway. Converting speed and momentum into
a motion at rest in a short distance and interval of time is my final
goal after a great flight.
John Cox
#40600
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 6:07 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Do the plastic brake lines leak?
Chris,
I am in the process of replacing the plastic for the same reasons you
stated. I found a dealer with pretty good prices for stainless teflon -3
brake lines. They are sold in inch sizes and are worth the peace of mind
to me to do this upgrade.
go to www.anplumbing.com
type this number minus the quotes into the search window, it will take
you to the page for these lines. "63010112"
After making up my fuel lines, buying the brake lines already assembled
makes my finger tips happy!!
Rick S.
40185
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: 51% Committee |
Well summarized, Dave. My sentiments exactly!
John Ackerman
On Mar 14, 2007, at 9:20 AM, Dave Saylor wrote:
> Thanks for all the replies. I recieved more this time than from
> any other post!
>
> I have all your input recorded. It is much along the same lines:
> maintain legitimate homebuilders' current rights and don't allow
> abusers of the current rule to keep pushing the envelope. Builder
> training is OK, even if the training occurs on the customer's
> project, but build to order, with the owner largely absent, is unfair.
>
> Keep 'em coming,
>
> Dave Saylor
> AirCrafters LLC
> 140 Aviation Way
> Watsonville, CA
> 831-722-9141
> 831-750-0284 CL
> www.AirCraftersLLC.com
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org? |
Yup sure, I'd be in. There are lots of other things that a national type
group could do in addition to clothing items and name tags. I think it was
Deems that floated a similar balloon a while back.
Group purchasing, insurance etc. newsletter, fly ins, tech and flight
seminars, best maintenance practices etc. etc.
Dick Sipp
40065 Finishing Deems is right it is a misnomer.
do not achieve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 9:26 AM
Subject: RV10-List: www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org?
>
>
> Should we?
>
> Shirts, hats, group buys, unique products, etc.....
Message 37
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| Subject: | six dimples molded into door shells not there? |
hey all -
i know, i know... i just ask question after question, all seemingly
unrelated... i'm skipping around a bunch, but i promise, it all makes
sense! here's the question of the evening - i'm looking at my left
outer door shell, and i'm missing the upper right corner window dimple,
and the aft edge dimple, and in the right outer door shell, i'm missing
one of the window dimples. anyone else have this problem? any ideas?
this fiberglass stuff is a little frustrating!
cj
#40410
wings/fuse/finishing!
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
Message 38
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| Subject: | www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org? |
"do not achieve" ROFL
Good one Dick - I'm not much of a high flyer either - until I 'finish'
<huge grin>
Ron
Trying to finish as well
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Sipp
Sent: Thursday, 15 March 2007 1:52 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org?
Yup sure, I'd be in. There are lots of other things that a national
type group could do in addition to clothing items and name tags. I
think it was Deems that floated a similar balloon a while back.
Group purchasing, insurance etc. newsletter, fly ins, tech and flight
seminars, best maintenance practices etc. etc.
Dick Sipp
40065 Finishing Deems is right it is a misnomer.
do not achieve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 9:26 AM
Subject: RV10-List: www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org?
<ericparlow@hotmail.com>
>
>
> Should we?
>
> Shirts, hats, group buys, unique products, etc.....
Message 39
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| Subject: | Fiberglass top rudder fairing not strait. |
My fiberglass top rudder fairing (R-1009) is a bit curved from front to
back. Not strait. Did anyone have much sanding to do on that piece? I
could make it fit, but I am thinking of asking Van's for a new one. I
am just wondering if this is a normal defect meant to be corrected by
the builder, and a new one would be no better.
Also, the elevator tip fairings are a bit short and much thicker at the
trailing edge than the elevator trailing edge. Did everyone sand the
fairings razor thin here? Did you make them longer with resin lay-up?
Dave Leikam
40496
Getting my feet wet with resin fitting tail-feather fiberglass and
waiting for fuse, wings and finish kit to arrive.
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Do the plastic brake lines leak? |
I was trying to figure out how the brake fluid comes only in on the top
threaded insert and does not go back out from the same insert. It must be
that the actuation of the inside piston must allow fluid to only go out the
bottom insert when the pedal is pushed.. Basically the plastic breaklines
leading back to the reservoir are not under pressure, but the plastic lines
going to the pilot's side are under pressure when the co pilot pushes the
pedal(s). The piston in action on said cylinder no longer give access of
fluid to the upper insert. The actuation of the pedal itself, acts as the
gate.
Sorry, in the instructions there was so much talk about right and left
master cylinders I had to understand it because on three of the cylinder I
took them out of their bags and could not be sure there wasn't something
different about each cylinder. UNderstanding the mechanism and looking at
the flat spot on the bottom of the outside of the cylinder is enough
information in itself. My setup is fine now that I have thoroughly confused
you all.
JOhn G.
>From: "William Curtis" <wcurtis@nerv10.com>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>, <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Do the plastic brake lines leak?
>Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 18:40:39 -0500
>
> Not sure I understand your question but here is a schematic of the Matco
>brake master cylinder.
>http://matco.elixirlabs.com/users/matco/images/MC-4A_install.jpg This is
>roughly the RV-10 system, just with the pilot and co-pilot position
>reversed. No check valves (anti "backflow device").
>http://matco.elixirlabs.com/users/matco/images/mastercylinder20a.jpg If
>the plastic portion was to break, as long as there was some fluid in them,
>they would effectively become mini-individual fluid reservoirs. The
>important lines are the last lines leaving the cylinders to the calipers.
>In our kits, these are steel braded. Everything above them can be
>considered reservoir. Remember aircraft brake systems are not like auto
>brake systems which is why you bleed by pumping from the "bottom" or
>sucking from the "top" From the top
>http://matco.elixirlabs.com/users/matco/images/VACUUMBLEED.jpg From the
>bottom http://matco.elixirlabs.com/users/matco/images/PRESS_BLEED.jpg
>
>William
>http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
>
>----------------------------------------
>
>Where in this system is the one way valve located(Backflow device)?
>
>In otherwards, when the pedal is pressed does the pressure only go out of
>the the bottom fitting in the cylinder or is the backflow valve in the base
>of the brake fluid reservior.
>
>John G.
>
>Do NOt Archive
>
> >From: "William Curtis"
> >To: ,
> >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Do the plastic brake lines leak?
> >Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 16:28:05 -0500
> >
> >
> >
> >Guys,
> >
> >Ask yourself, what is the worst case scenario if the plastic portion of
>the
> >brake system broke? Unless it broke at the pilot side tubes, only the
> >co-pilot will not be able to brake and you would have a mess of red
>fluid.
> >Even if it broke at the pilot side tubes you should still have enough
>fluid
> >for at least one brake application from the pilot position. The plastic
> >portion is relatively low pressure and a break there should not cause a
> >failure of the entire system. Certainly other than plastic tube is
>great,
> >but worth the change from the stock design? Ah?
> >
> >Unlike our recent axle support re-design, this would be of dubious added
> >value.
> >
> >William
> >http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
> >
> >----------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >Chris,
> >
> >I am in the process of replacing the plastic for the same reasons you
> >stated. I found a dealer with pretty good prices for stainless teflon -3
> >brake lines. They are sold in inch sizes and are worth the peace of mind
>to
> >me to do this upgrade.
> >
> >go to www.anplumbing.com
> >
> >type this number minus the quotes into the search window, it will take
>you
> >to the page for these lines. "63010112"
> >
> >After making up my fuel lines, buying the brake lines already assembled
> >makes my finger tips happy!!
> >
> >Rick S================
>
>
Message 41
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| Subject: | Do the plastic brake lines leak? |
John, please tell me what your quote means:
"Converting speed and momentum into
a motion at rest in a short distance and interval of time is my final
goal after a great flight."
I understand Shakespeare, but I don't get this? I really do want to
understand.
Wait.... Converting the planes speed and motion into an object at rest, in
short distance and over a small interval of time, is my ultimate goal at the
end of a great flight.
Damm, I thought it was deeper than that.
Not trying to offend anyone!
JOhn G. Do not archive
>From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Do the plastic brake lines leak?
>Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 18:03:09 -0700
>
>
>As a result of so many other aircraft having problems with the plastic
>lines provided, I am following the path to safety of the plastic
>aircraft builders and choosing the prudent course. Non-plastic.
>
>Is seems easier to learn from the practices of those with real field
>experience than trust an untrained path of technical help that they
>might be okay.. but try them anyway. Converting speed and momentum into
>a motion at rest in a short distance and interval of time is my final
>goal after a great flight.
>
>John Cox
>#40600
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
>Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 6:07 AM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Do the plastic brake lines leak?
>
>
>Chris,
>
>I am in the process of replacing the plastic for the same reasons you
>stated. I found a dealer with pretty good prices for stainless teflon -3
>brake lines. They are sold in inch sizes and are worth the peace of mind
>to me to do this upgrade.
>
>go to www.anplumbing.com
>
>type this number minus the quotes into the search window, it will take
>you to the page for these lines. "63010112"
>
>
>After making up my fuel lines, buying the brake lines already assembled
>makes my finger tips happy!!
>
>Rick S.
>40185
>
>
Message 42
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| Subject: | Fiberglass top rudder fairing not strait. |
Dave,
Sounds like the part was pulled from the mold prior to complete cure. Mine
had no right /left curve or up/down curve. Mine was atleast 1/2" short at
the T.E. I had to add a layup of unidirectional carbon laminate sandwiched
in a fiberglass and resin cotton flox mix, then sanded it to shape after
cure.
These parts are not very good and my trailing edges on the elevator fairings
are strong and really thick, too thick.
John G
>From: "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM@wi.rr.com>
>To: "matronics" <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV10-List: Fiberglass top rudder fairing not strait.
>Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 23:29:48 -0500
>
>My fiberglass top rudder fairing (R-1009) is a bit curved from front to
>back. Not strait. Did anyone have much sanding to do on that piece? I
>could make it fit, but I am thinking of asking Van's for a new one. I am
>just wondering if this is a normal defect meant to be corrected by the
>builder, and a new one would be no better.
>
>Also, the elevator tip fairings are a bit short and much thicker at the
>trailing edge than the elevator trailing edge. Did everyone sand the
>fairings razor thin here? Did you make them longer with resin lay-up?
>
>Dave Leikam
>40496
>Getting my feet wet with resin fitting tail-feather fiberglass and waiting
>for fuse, wings and finish kit to arrive.
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