Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:16 AM - Leather Interior? (Jesse Saint)
2. 07:02 AM - Re: Fw: Axle Extension - Brute Force Method (John Gonzalez)
3. 07:05 AM - Re: Do the plastic brake lines leak? (gary)
4. 09:44 AM - Van's Shipping FYI (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
5. 10:18 AM - Re: Fw: Axle Extension - Brute Force Method (Niko)
6. 10:52 AM - Re: Van's Shipping FYI (Pascal)
7. 10:54 AM - Nosegear fork (Ralph E. Capen)
8. 11:18 AM - Re: Van's Shipping FYI (William Greenley)
9. 11:34 AM - Re: Van's Shipping FYI (John Jessen)
10. 12:29 PM - KSAT visit (Darton Steve)
11. 01:13 PM - Re: Van's Shipping FYI (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
12. 06:43 PM - Paralleling the control columns (John Gonzalez)
13. 07:22 PM - Phosphoric Acid (Rene)
14. 07:26 PM - Re: Paralleling the control columns (Jesse Saint)
15. 07:27 PM - Re: KSAT visit (Jesse Saint)
16. 07:37 PM - Re: Phosphoric Acid (Larry Rosen)
17. 07:43 PM - Re: Phosphoric Acid (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
18. 08:18 PM - Re: Phosphoric Acid (Dave Leikam)
19. 09:28 PM - Re: Paralleling the control columns (John Gonzalez)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Leather Interior? |
I have been thinking about getting together an interior kit just like is in
N415EC and N416EC to offer for sale. It would include front side panels,
door handles, armrest/map box, breaker console, wood trim, leather seats,
leather with foam precut for all side panels, floormats, luggage area mats,
rear seat backs to match the front, leather headliner, glare shield pad and
a few other misc items. Anybody who might be interested in something like
this please contact me off the list. I can send pictures for those who are
interested.
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Axle Extension - Brute Force Method |
Excellent and well thought out response. I agree with you on all the
mathmatical analysis, not that I did it or checked it. I still think it is
not a good design, regardless of how much beef you put into it.
I do not agree however that the fastening of the HS is the same meathod. The
design for the wheel faring is a single axis, like a flag pole.
The HS angle brackets, two total, each has two bolts for a total of four. In
addition, the forks that anchor the rear spar, if I recal correctly, has
another two bolts per fork for a total of four. So all said, there are eight
bolts, four working in both shear and tension on the main spar and four
working more in shear on the rear spar. I like to think of it like a four
legged stool with all the legs anchored to the ground. It is very stable
with little change that lateral loads will be able to impart any damage to
anyone of the eight bolts.
The wheel faring, I see it as a one legged stool anchored into the ground.
In this case, Rick, size matters, because that guy that kept agreeing to
Supersized orders at MCDonalds(Drives a Hummer and leaves his light on all
day long when no one is home) is gonna find himself on that ground with no
one to help him get up. Like a rollie polli bug that's stuck on its back.
If the faring attachment mechanis breaks and if the faring only drags on the
ground, no problem.
But is it tears off, gets sucked up under the tire and then thrown, damaging
the bottom of the plane, wing or break line than it is a problem. We worked
way too hard to make these planes look great and function well to suffer
that fate.
Get the name of Tim's contact and run another order. I would make you one if
I had the lathe.
Thanks for listening.
Rick, little green men were chaising me, thats why I was running. They were
LITTLE, and when I turned around and chaised them, they led me to their pot
of GOLD. Still can't afford that glass panel.
No dentistry today, only kindergarden teaching and then plane building. No
more posts.
JOhn G #409
>From: Niko <owl40188@yahoo.com>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fw: Axle Extension - Brute Force Method
>Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 15:26:25 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Well John, I don't think you are being a smart ass and you have not
>offended me in any way. I am just writing this for an informational point
>of view as I have gotten a lot of usefull information from this group and I
>am trying to give back a little.
>
>There is a big difference between a "poor" design and margin of safety. A
>poor structural design simply means its inefficient in carrying loads it
>does not mean that it will fail. The RV10s, small Cessnas, and small
>Pipers are filled with design details which are considered "poor" because
>they are structurally inefficient but they have adequate margins of safety
>and they work. They are just heavy but they are simple cheap methods of
>doing a task and frankly I believe in most cases appropriate for the
>aircraft they are being used in.
>
>
>The current axle extension design that Van's has is not a bad design its
>simply a bit undersized. It works in heel-toe action what you are calling
>a fulcrum. This is not a mystical design. The load on the bolt for a
>given configuration can be easily calculated and sized appropriately. By
>the way this same concept is being used to carry the horizontal stabilizer
>vertical load at the front spar location in the RV10. If you look at the
>joint closely you will notice that the two angle fittings will have heel
>toe action at the base. This by the way identical to design Piper uses on
>some of its aircraft and it works. I can only surmise that its one of the
>many details Vans has copied from someone else. Its not the lightest or
>most elegant solution but it gets the job done, its simple and its cheap.
>Another example is the use of 6061 aluminum which is considered very weak
>not typically not used in more advanced aircraft. the AN3 bolts we use are
>also not used in more
> advanced designs as they are at the low end of steels capability and
>there are much stronger bolts for the same weight.
>
>In the design change I made I increased the diameter of the hex extension
>by 50% which inturn lowered the heel toe load by the same amount as the
>moment arm has increased. This results in about a 30% decrease in stress
>in the bolt. Increasing the diameter of the bolt increased the bolt area
>by 2.25 times and resulted in a corresponding decrease in the bolt stress.
>If you take these two changes together the operating stress in the new bolt
>is about 30% of Van's design (70% reduction in stress.) This is not a
>guess or heresay, this is the rough number using a simplistic analysis
>method. Since in general a 10% decrease in stess will double the fatigue
>life this should result in approximately 2000 fold increase in fatigue
>life. You can see this from a typical steel fatigue curve. See attached
>figure for 4130 steel which indicates much more than 3 orders of magnitude
>improvement in life for a 70% reduction in stress (red vs blue line.) In
>fact it appears that for 4130 we
> would be operating below its endurance limit so we would be approaching
>infinite life. What I haven't considered here is the preload in the bolt
>which also tilts the scale on the side of the larger bolt.
>
>Lets conservatively say that these bolts fail in 50 hrs of flying, then a
>2000 fold increase will give me a life of 100,000hrs using a scatter factor
>of 3 which is typicall for aircraft I would expect at least a 33000hr life
>which I believe is adequate. And there are aircraft flying with the
>original design with hundereds of hours with no failures. Truth of the
>matter is that this design is probably adequate with a 3/4" hex extension
>and only an AN5 bolt.
>
>My conclusion is that the revised design is adequate. If someone doesn't
>think so that's okay too.
>
>Niko
>40188
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 2:04:47 PM
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fw: Axle Extension - Brute Force Method
>
>
>
>First let me state I am not trying to be a know it all or a smart ass. Nor
>am I clairvoyant.
>
>Think about how those rocks were moved to build the pyramids. Think about
>how after a tornado or hurricane they find a plastic straw embedded in a
>telephone pole. How about how a 110 pound Japanese Aikido practitioner can
>bring down a 350 pound muscle man with the greatest of ease.
>
>What the hell am I talking about?
>
>Brute force, or as you state, the thickest of metal, not designed well,
>will
>shatter. The problem is that you need to think of the hex extension as a
>lever. The fulcrum point is the edge of the hex where it touches the flat
>face of the axle adapter. The other lever arm is the distance between the
>bolt and the outside edge of the hex extension(in other wards, the distance
>between the fulcrum point back to the bolt.) Think of this also in 360
>degrees(this is realy bad)
>
>Now you will true your fairing as best you can so it flies cleanly through
>the air, but these reciprocating engines, even the Eggenfellner, will cause
>a vibration. Translate that vibration on to the wheel fairing and you will
>get a harmonic cycle acting on that long lever arm(The hex extension). The
>longer the hex extension the worse the problem. The more mass at the end of
>that extension, the worse the problem. The more vibration, worse yet.
>Millions of cycles possibly over a single flight. In my opinion, that bolt
>doesn't stand a chance. No matter how you torque it.
>
>Here is a little better way. Tim's design for one. After that, where the
>hex
>extension meets the axle adapter, you need a female receptor lathed into
>the
>axle adapter. It needs to have a Morse Taper. The Hex extension needs to
>have a corresponding Male, Morse taper. The bolt, properly torqued will
>transfer the load to the two tapers and relieve the lateral forces which
>the
>bolt's shaft is subjected to. The bolt will now only serve to hold the two
>pieces together. The machining needs to be really clean with no internal
>blips or hangups, otherwise these will act as fulcrum points.
>
>Damm, you all better hope that my schedule starts getting busy again,
>otherwise I'll drive you crazy.
>
>John G. #409
>
>Do archive this. I think this is an appropriate time for a Yoda qoute.
>Suggestions?
>
>Wagers anyone????
>
>
> >From: Niko <owl40188@yahoo.com>
> >To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fw: Axle Extension - Brute Force Method
> >Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 10:43:08 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >I am not sure why you are saying this John. An AN6 bolt, has a tensile
> >strength of 10100lb where as an AN4 bolt has a tensile strength of
>4000lb.
> >Additionally the larger hex extension reduces the load on the bolt. I
> >haven't done any analysis on this particular design so I can't tell you
>for
> >sure if the original design was grossly undersized, however, being that
> >not everyone is having problems I would think that Vans design is not
>that
> >far off. And this design would have less than a third of the stress in
>the
> >bolt that Vans design has. I guess time will tell.
> >
> > One item that might be coming into play is the torque values. If one
> >under torques a bolt its fatigue life may be reduced drastically. Thats
> >because the bolt typically sees only a fraction of the applied load as
>the
> >rest is going to relieve some of the preload in the joint. If the
>applied
> >load is higher than the preload due to torque the joint will open up and
> >drastically reduce the life of the bolt. Yes, this does mean the higher
> >the torque the better up to the point where significant deformation of
>the
> >threads occurs. Although this is just a guess it could very well be that
> >the people having problems with Vans design at this location have not
> >applied enough torque. I do realize that the bolt is being threaded into
> >aluminum and one has to be more carefull
> >
> > Thousands of cycles by themselves are not a problem. In fact even
> >aluminum (2024) can take more than 100 million cycles if you keep the
>peak
> >stress below 10 ksi.
> >
> >
> >Niko
> >40188
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message ----
> >From: John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
> >To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> >Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 11:18:18 AM
> >Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fw: Axle Extension - Brute Force Method
> >
> >
> >
> >Tim will tell you, I'll bet that even the AN6 bolt will shear.
> >
> >The vibration and the fulcrum point of the edge of the hex extension on
>the
> >vertical face of the axle mount, cycled thousands and thousands of time
> >will
> >snap that bolt.
> >
> >I like to think of this design as the way early dental implants were
> >designed. The screws used to snap of inside the implant or bend before
> >snapping.
> >
> >This is why I love to understand the physics in everything including
> >dentistry.
> >
> >John G
> >
> >Do not archive
> >
> >
> > >From: Niko <owl40188@yahoo.com>
> > >To: Matronics <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> > >Subject: RV10-List: Fw: Axle Extension - Brute Force Method
> > >Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 08:35:45 -0700 (PDT)
> > >
> > >When we had the axle extension group buy I had opted out as the group
>got
> > >very large and I was thinking that we could put another group buy at a
> > >later date. These things have a way of sneaking up on you and I ended
>up
> > >working on this part earlier than I had anticipated. Being a bit early
> >for
> > >another group buy I brute forced it and got another solution.
> > >
> > >I replaced the original 1/2 inch diameter extension and AN4 bolt with a
> >3/4
> > >inch diameter hex extension and AN6 bolt. I have attached a few
> >pictures
> > >for those interested in trying the same modification.
> > >
> > >I found the 3/4 inch hex extension at McMasterCarr in 12 inch lengths.
> > >
> > >Niko
> > >40188
> >
> >
> > ><< AxleExtensionSml1.jpg >>
> >
> >
> > ><< AxleExtensionSml2.jpg >>
> >
> >
> > ><< AxleExtension3Sml.jpg >>
> >
> >
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Do the plastic brake lines leak? |
You can find a boogy man behind every fitting and every rivet if you want
to. Relax and have fun building. It is a well designed plane. There was
an excellent article in one of the last AOPA Pilot magazines by Rod Machado
about this very subject.
Gary
40274
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnston
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:52 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Do the plastic brake lines leak?
hi guys -
I believe I started all this plastic brake line business by asking the
simple question: do any of you out there have experience with these lines
leaking. apparently the answer has been mostly "nope". That's good to
hear. From many, the answer is "nope, but they might someday". Then
there's the "nope, and why fix something that isn't broken". I thought
since I began this discussion, I might sum up the responses a bit, and point
out that the constant in all the answers is that "nope. they don't leak".
And just to be clear, it's only lines under the forward fuse deck, not lines
going down to the wheels (which apparently catch fire).
I was mostly asking about leaks because it kind of seems like passengers
could kick and kind of beat up the lines, and create a problem. Also if it
gets warm down there next to the firewall, I thought the compression
fittings might do something weird. I don't really have any experience with
this type of fitting, but I have a ton of experience with braided steel and
AN type fittings. Hence the question. I haven't decided if I'll have some
lines made, or if I'll just build em like it says in the plans, but it's
nice to know they work as designed. I'd just be bummed not to have brakes
in a non-steerable nosewheel plane. i think... it's not like i've ever
flown one before...
thanks for all the input guys!
cj
#40410
wings/fuse/finishing
do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Van's Shipping FYI |
Just wanted to give you guys a heads up in case anyone does things like I
have.
Normally when I ordered my sub kit's I would give them a deposit and then
put a note in the comments to contact me when ready to ship for final paym
ent. No sense in losing (or paying) the interest in the mean time right.
This has been fine for the first two kit sections but this time they didn't
contact me. When I called today I was told the letter they sent months ag
o was the notice and they didn't feel it necessary to contact me again so i
f I hadn't called they would have eventually got around to calling me or I
would have forfeited the deposit.
Interestingly I also almost had to pay the 2007 prices even though I sent
the order in December. Apparently in that instance my credit card was dec
lined for some unknown reason (my bank couldn't find an authorization attem
pt) and they sent me an email which I never received. About a week into Ja
n I received a letter about it and immediately sent them a check (same acco
unt). Two weeks after that I got another letter saying I owed the extra fe
w hundred because I didn't get the deposit in before the end of the year an
d they felt I took too long to respond, two weeks mind you. Well after som
e discussions they agreed to drop the upcharge and I suggested that they gi
ve people a call when they run into a problem rather than sending an email
or letter. Probably take less time than writing and sending the letter any
way. Both of these cases involved Ann and I don't know if she is newer but
I thought I had dealt with someone else in the past.
So anyone that thinks I'm bashing Van's, keep it to yourself because I'm
not. I just want everyone to know that you need to follow up with Van's wi
th a phone call for any kit orders that you may place and again around ship
ping time. Especially if you only give them the deposit.
Michael
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Axle Extension - Brute Force Method |
I also like the design Tim came up particularly the reduced section on the outboard
side to save weight thats why I initially got into the group buy. The basic
concept though that both Tim and I used is no different than Van's. Its the
same design concept just a bit beefier. Its single bolt though the axle nut
and still has plenty of heel toe action just different amounts of heel toe and
different strength bolts.
Since you told me to "Get the name of Tim's contact and run another order" I would
say maybe you need to stop shooting from the hip and show some data if you
are claiming something will fail or is undersized ;-). I do appreciate the
thought of you making one for me though. If you ever do get a lathe I would
like the 3/4 inch hex bar rounded at the outboard end and the diameter reduced
to 1/2 inch on the outboard end. You can keep the inboard edge just the way
it is. This will save a bit of weight which also reduces the load on the bolt.
If you can anodize it also that will make it look really nice.
As far as the horizontal stabilizer, the heel toe action is definitely there.
If I get some time this weekend I might draw some figures and elaborate, or maybe
people are getting tired of this subject and its best to let it go and get
back to priming discussions.
Either way best wishes in your building and do what you feel comfortable with as
long as you don't reduce sizes from Van's design.
By the way for anyone wanting to do something similar, this is just my opinion
as to what is adequate and I might be wrong and have been wrong before.
Is everyone priming their parts? I hope you realize your airplane might come apart
in flight if you don't.
Do not archive.
Niko
40188
----- Original Message ----
From: John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:01:11 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fw: Axle Extension - Brute Force Method
Excellent and well thought out response. I agree with you on all the
mathmatical analysis, not that I did it or checked it. I still think it is
not a good design, regardless of how much beef you put into it.
I do not agree however that the fastening of the HS is the same meathod. The
design for the wheel faring is a single axis, like a flag pole.
The HS angle brackets, two total, each has two bolts for a total of four. In
addition, the forks that anchor the rear spar, if I recal correctly, has
another two bolts per fork for a total of four. So all said, there are eight
bolts, four working in both shear and tension on the main spar and four
working more in shear on the rear spar. I like to think of it like a four
legged stool with all the legs anchored to the ground. It is very stable
with little change that lateral loads will be able to impart any damage to
anyone of the eight bolts.
The wheel faring, I see it as a one legged stool anchored into the ground.
In this case, Rick, size matters, because that guy that kept agreeing to
Supersized orders at MCDonalds(Drives a Hummer and leaves his light on all
day long when no one is home) is gonna find himself on that ground with no
one to help him get up. Like a rollie polli bug that's stuck on its back.
If the faring attachment mechanis breaks and if the faring only drags on the
ground, no problem.
But is it tears off, gets sucked up under the tire and then thrown, damaging
the bottom of the plane, wing or break line than it is a problem. We worked
way too hard to make these planes look great and function well to suffer
that fate.
Get the name of Tim's contact and run another order. I would make you one if
I had the lathe.
Thanks for listening.
Rick, little green men were chaising me, thats why I was running. They were
LITTLE, and when I turned around and chaised them, they led me to their pot
of GOLD. Still can't afford that glass panel.
No dentistry today, only kindergarden teaching and then plane building. No
more posts.
JOhn G #409
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Van's Shipping FYI |
Thanks for the feedback. I have had a somewhat same experience but would
say I am happy in the end. I asked for a 2007 Brochure be sent to me. I
don't need it but I was testing the system before buying the kit.
I sent an e-mail asking as well as a phone call. No call back and after
sending a follow-up e-mail for status was told the brochure was sent via
USPS.
I've discovered that one needs to stay on top of orders and requests but
ultimately it does get resolved in a kindly manner.
Thx
Pascal
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:43 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Van's Shipping FYI
Just wanted to give you guys a heads up in case anyone does things
like I have.
Normally when I ordered my sub kit's I would give them a deposit and
then put a note in the comments to contact me when ready to ship for
final payment. No sense in losing (or paying) the interest in the mean
time right. This has been fine for the first two kit sections but this
time they didn't contact me. When I called today I was told the letter
they sent months ago was the notice and they didn't feel it necessary to
contact me again so if I hadn't called they would have eventually got
around to calling me or I would have forfeited the deposit.
Interestingly I also almost had to pay the 2007 prices even though I
sent the order in December. Apparently in that instance my credit card
was declined for some unknown reason (my bank couldn't find an
authorization attempt) and they sent me an email which I never received.
About a week into Jan I received a letter about it and immediately sent
them a check (same account). Two weeks after that I got another letter
saying I owed the extra few hundred because I didn't get the deposit in
before the end of the year and they felt I took too long to respond, two
weeks mind you. Well after some discussions they agreed to drop the
upcharge and I suggested that they give people a call when they run into
a problem rather than sending an email or letter. Probably take less
time than writing and sending the letter anyway. Both of these cases
involved Ann and I don't know if she is newer but I thought I had dealt
with someone else in the past.
So anyone that thinks I'm bashing Van's, keep it to yourself because
I'm not. I just want everyone to know that you need to follow up with
Van's with a phone call for any kit orders that you may place and again
around shipping time. Especially if you only give them the deposit.
Michael
Message 7
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With all the hubbub over the NW501.25 vs NW511.25 lately and the rotating spacers
issues.....can someone tell me what the diameter of the gearleg is where it
goes through the fork - and the length of the bushing'ed area on the fork?
Here's the reason for asking:
I already have larger tires for my RV6A maingear and would like something larger
for the nose too. Flying off of some pretty rough strips here on DelMarVa peninsula.
The 'new' design nosewheel fork looks similar to the RV10 nosegear
fork - if it fits...I have my larger nosewheel....
Thanks
Message 8
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| Subject: | Van's Shipping FYI |
I also had a related experiance. I am studying and getting ready to
order a 10 kit, so ordered a subscription for 2006 and 2007 Rvaitor in
Nov. 2006. I phoned right after placing the order to make sure that this
meant I would get all the back 5 issues for 2006 and then issue 6 when
it came out and so on. They assured me that was the case. However, it
took 5 calls, and it wasn't till the first week of March that I received
the back issues. They were always polite, but it seems that the
tranlation to shipping can be a little slow. I hope this was an anomaly,
as I am really looking forward to joining the rivet pounders club this
Summer.
Bill Greenley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Van's Shipping FYI
Thanks for the feedback. I have had a somewhat same experience but would
say I am happy in the end. I asked for a 2007 Brochure be sent to me. I
don't need it but I was testing the system before buying the kit.
I sent an e-mail asking as well as a phone call. No call back and after
sending a follow-up e-mail for status was told the brochure was sent via
USPS.
I've discovered that one needs to stay on top of orders and requests but
ultimately it does get resolved in a kindly manner.
Thx
Pascal
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: RV Builder <mailto:rvbuilder@sausen.net> (Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:43 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Van's Shipping FYI
Just wanted to give you guys a heads up in case anyone does things
like I have.
Normally when I ordered my sub kit's I would give them a deposit and
then put a note in the comments to contact me when ready to ship for
final payment. No sense in losing (or paying) the interest in the mean
time right. This has been fine for the first two kit sections but this
time they didn't contact me. When I called today I was told the letter
they sent months ago was the notice and they didn't feel it necessary to
contact me again so if I hadn't called they would have eventually got
around to calling me or I would have forfeited the deposit.
Interestingly I also almost had to pay the 2007 prices even though I
sent the order in December. Apparently in that instance my credit card
was declined for some unknown reason (my bank couldn't find an
authorization attempt) and they sent me an email which I never received.
About a week into Jan I received a letter about it and immediately sent
them a check (same account). Two weeks after that I got another letter
saying I owed the extra few hundred because I didn't get the deposit in
before the end of the year and they felt I took too long to respond, two
weeks mind you. Well after some discussions they agreed to drop the
upcharge and I suggested that they give people a call when they run into
a problem rather than sending an email or letter. Probably take less
time than writing and sending the letter anyway. Both of these cases
involved Ann and I don't know if she is newer but I thought I had dealt
with someone else in the past.
So anyone that thinks I'm bashing Van's, keep it to yourself because
I'm not. I just want everyone to know that you need to follow up with
Van's with a phone call for any kit orders that you may place and again
around shipping time. Especially if you only give them the deposit.
Michael
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Van's Shipping FYI |
Their heart is in the right place, overall. Just make sure you help them
help themselves when necessary. There are always anomalies. I now get two
of every Rviator issue only because I complained I wasn't getting any, so,
well, they made sure I was getting at least one, by golly!
John Jessen
do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Greenley
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 11:18 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Van's Shipping FYI
I also had a related experiance. I am studying and getting ready to order a
10 kit, so ordered a subscription for 2006 and 2007 Rvaitor in Nov. 2006. I
phoned right after placing the order to make sure that this meant I would
get all the back 5 issues for 2006 and then issue 6 when it came out and so
on. They assured me that was the case. However, it took 5 calls, and it
wasn't till the first week of March that I received the back issues. They
were always polite, but it seems that the tranlation to shipping can be a
little slow. I hope this was an anomaly, as I am really looking forward to
joining the rivet pounders club this Summer.
Bill Greenley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Van's Shipping FYI
Thanks for the feedback. I have had a somewhat same experience but would say
I am happy in the end. I asked for a 2007 Brochure be sent to me. I don't
need it but I was testing the system before buying the kit.
I sent an e-mail asking as well as a phone call. No call back and after
sending a follow-up e-mail for status was told the brochure was sent via
USPS.
I've discovered that one needs to stay on top of orders and requests but
ultimately it does get resolved in a kindly manner.
Thx
Pascal
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: RV Builder <mailto:rvbuilder@sausen.net> (Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:43 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Van's Shipping FYI
Just wanted to give you guys a heads up in case anyone does things like I
have.
Normally when I ordered my sub kit's I would give them a deposit and then
put a note in the comments to contact me when ready to ship for final
payment. No sense in losing (or paying) the interest in the mean time
right. This has been fine for the first two kit sections but this time they
didn't contact me. When I called today I was told the letter they sent
months ago was the notice and they didn't feel it necessary to contact me
again so if I hadn't called they would have eventually got around to calling
me or I would have forfeited the deposit.
Interestingly I also almost had to pay the 2007 prices even though I sent
the order in December. Apparently in that instance my credit card was
declined for some unknown reason (my bank couldn't find an authorization
attempt) and they sent me an email which I never received. About a week
into Jan I received a letter about it and immediately sent them a check
(same account). Two weeks after that I got another letter saying I owed the
extra few hundred because I didn't get the deposit in before the end of the
year and they felt I took too long to respond, two weeks mind you. Well
after some discussions they agreed to drop the upcharge and I suggested that
they give people a call when they run into a problem rather than sending an
email or letter. Probably take less time than writing and sending the
letter anyway. Both of these cases involved Ann and I don't know if she is
newer but I thought I had dealt with someone else in the past.
So anyone that thinks I'm bashing Van's, keep it to yourself because I'm
not. I just want everyone to know that you need to follow up with Van's
with a phone call for any kit orders that you may place and again around
shipping time. Especially if you only give them the deposit.
Michael
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 10
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I will be I San Antonio, Texas. Any builders that
would like a helping hand this Monday and Tuesday?
Steve 40212
No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail
Message 11
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| Subject: | Van's Shipping FYI |
That's funny. When I renewed the RVaitor for 2006 in 2005 they started to
send me two at a time also. I had to call and explain it was a renewal. I
only got two in 2006. Needless to say I haven't bothered renewing.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 1:34 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Van's Shipping FYI
Their heart is in the right place, overall. Just make sure you help them h
elp themselves when necessary. There are always anomalies. I now get two
of every Rviator issue only because I complained I wasn't getting any, so,
well, they made sure I was getting at least one, by golly!
John Jessen
do not archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of William Greenley
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 11:18 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Van's Shipping FYI
I also had a related experiance. I am studying and getting ready to order a
10 kit, so ordered a subscription for 2006 and 2007 Rvaitor in Nov. 2006.
I phoned right after placing the order to make sure that this meant I would
get all the back 5 issues for 2006 and then issue 6 when it came out and s
o on. They assured me that was the case. However, it took 5 calls, and it w
asn't till the first week of March that I received the back issues. They we
re always polite, but it seems that the tranlation to shipping can be a lit
tle slow. I hope this was an anomaly, as I am really looking forward to joi
ning the rivet pounders club this Summer.
Bill Greenley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Van's Shipping FYI
Thanks for the feedback. I have had a somewhat same experience but would sa
y I am happy in the end. I asked for a 2007 Brochure be sent to me. I don't
need it but I was testing the system before buying the kit.
I sent an e-mail asking as well as a phone call. No call back and after sen
ding a follow-up e-mail for status was told the brochure was sent via USPS.
I've discovered that one needs to stay on top of orders and requests but ul
timately it does get resolved in a kindly manner.
Thx
Pascal
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen)<mailto:rvbuilder@sausen.net>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:43 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Van's Shipping FYI
Just wanted to give you guys a heads up in case anyone does things like I
have.
Normally when I ordered my sub kit's I would give them a deposit and then
put a note in the comments to contact me when ready to ship for final paym
ent. No sense in losing (or paying) the interest in the mean time right.
This has been fine for the first two kit sections but this time they didn't
contact me. When I called today I was told the letter they sent months ag
o was the notice and they didn't feel it necessary to contact me again so i
f I hadn't called they would have eventually got around to calling me or I
would have forfeited the deposit.
Interestingly I also almost had to pay the 2007 prices even though I sent
the order in December. Apparently in that instance my credit card was dec
lined for some unknown reason (my bank couldn't find an authorization attem
pt) and they sent me an email which I never received. About a week into Ja
n I received a letter about it and immediately sent them a check (same acco
unt). Two weeks after that I got another letter saying I owed the extra fe
w hundred because I didn't get the deposit in before the end of the year an
d they felt I took too long to respond, two weeks mind you. Well after som
e discussions they agreed to drop the upcharge and I suggested that they gi
ve people a call when they run into a problem rather than sending an email
or letter. Probably take less time than writing and sending the letter any
way. Both of these cases involved Ann and I don't know if she is newer but
I thought I had dealt with someone else in the past.
So anyone that thinks I'm bashing Van's, keep it to yourself because I'm
not. I just want everyone to know that you need to follow up with Van's wi
th a phone call for any kit orders that you may place and again around ship
ping time. Especially if you only give them the deposit.
Michael
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 12
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| Subject: | Paralleling the control columns |
I noticed that I will not be able to parallel the two colums. Irrespective
of my rotation of my stick as it goes into the column, now that both are
setup in the plane, I can see that my copilot stick is angled more out
toward the front right.
What I am trying to say is that the plane of the entire stick is aiming
toward the right(The plane being the base, the curve and the top hand grip
area as if it was laying on a flat table). It looks like the receiver in
the column for the copilots side is angled out.
With this, I will never get the stick parallel. They are not in the same
plane. No it can't be corrected by rotating the shaft and redrilling. It is
the column that is out of toe per say.
Did anyone else notice this on their controls? I think, like the elevator
control horns, there might be a sufficient deviation between rt and lf in
the tooling.
The pilots side control stick's plane looks perfectly oreinted straight
ahead.
I don't think the hand grip portion will be that noticeble to one flying the
plane from either side.
Any other ideas other that getting a new column and stick or just leaving it
alone?
John G.
Message 13
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Rene'
801-721-6080
Any ideas of where I can get some phosphoric acid?
Rene
N423CF
40322
Finish......or something like it.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Paralleling the control columns |
The vertical portion at the top of the stick is the most important part to
get lined up, This can be adjusted by adjusting the rod that connects the
two sticks. I think I hear you saying, however, that the half-moon part of
the stick is not pointing directly forward. Is this correct? I don't think
this is a crucial, although it might not looks as good as it could. If I am
completely misunderstanding, send a picture with a line drawn that
exaggerates the problem and I may be able to offer something. I haven't
seen any problems in the welded steel parts in this area in the 5 planes
that I have helped with.
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:41 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Paralleling the control columns
I noticed that I will not be able to parallel the two colums. Irrespective
of my rotation of my stick as it goes into the column, now that both are
setup in the plane, I can see that my copilot stick is angled more out
toward the front right.
What I am trying to say is that the plane of the entire stick is aiming
toward the right(The plane being the base, the curve and the top hand grip
area as if it was laying on a flat table). It looks like the receiver in
the column for the copilots side is angled out.
With this, I will never get the stick parallel. They are not in the same
plane. No it can't be corrected by rotating the shaft and redrilling. It is
the column that is out of toe per say.
Did anyone else notice this on their controls? I think, like the elevator
control horns, there might be a sufficient deviation between rt and lf in
the tooling.
The pilots side control stick's plane looks perfectly oreinted straight
ahead.
I don't think the hand grip portion will be that noticeble to one flying the
plane from either side.
Any other ideas other that getting a new column and stick or just leaving it
alone?
John G.
--
11:27 AM
Message 15
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And I'll be out there on April 6th. I would love to visit a project or two
in the area.
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Darton Steve
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 3:29 PM
Subject: RV10-List: KSAT visit
I will be I San Antonio, Texas. Any builders that
would like a helping hand this Monday and Tuesday?
Steve 40212
No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail
--
11:27 AM
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Phosphoric Acid |
Lowe's
Aqua Mix Quart Phosphoric Acid Cleaner $6.95
Larry
Rene wrote:
>
>
> Rene'
> 801-721-6080
>
>
> Any ideas of where I can get some phosphoric acid?
>
> Rene
> N423CF
> 40322
> Finish......or something like it.
>
>
>
Message 17
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|
Various soda's like Pepsi, naval jelly, or more commonly from Lowes Depot in the
paint department as it's commonly used as concrete cleaner/etcher.
Michael
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:22 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Phosphoric Acid
Rene'
801-721-6080
Any ideas of where I can get some phosphoric acid?
Rene
N423CF
40322
Finish......or something like it.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Phosphoric Acid |
Try Coca Cola.
Dave Leikam
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rene" <rene@felker.com>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:21 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Phosphoric Acid
>
>
>
> Rene'
> 801-721-6080
>
>
> Any ideas of where I can get some phosphoric acid?
>
> Rene
> N423CF
> 40322
> Finish......or something like it.
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Paralleling the control columns |
Jesse,
You are completely correct in your understanding of what I said. I have
spent some time trying to just get the two straight portions parallel, but
it doesn't seem to be gettng there.
JOhn
>From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@saintaviation.com>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Paralleling the control columns
>Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 22:26:19 -0400
>
>
>The vertical portion at the top of the stick is the most important part to
>get lined up, This can be adjusted by adjusting the rod that connects the
>two sticks. I think I hear you saying, however, that the half-moon part of
>the stick is not pointing directly forward. Is this correct? I don't
>think
>this is a crucial, although it might not looks as good as it could. If I
>am
>completely misunderstanding, send a picture with a line drawn that
>exaggerates the problem and I may be able to offer something. I haven't
>seen any problems in the welded steel parts in this area in the 5 planes
>that I have helped with.
>
>Do not archive
>
>Jesse Saint
>Saint Aviation, Inc.
>jesse@saintaviation.com
>www.saintaviation.com
>Cell: 352-427-0285
>Fax: 815-377-3694
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
>Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:41 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: Paralleling the control columns
>
>
>I noticed that I will not be able to parallel the two colums. Irrespective
>of my rotation of my stick as it goes into the column, now that both are
>setup in the plane, I can see that my copilot stick is angled more out
>toward the front right.
>
>What I am trying to say is that the plane of the entire stick is aiming
>toward the right(The plane being the base, the curve and the top hand grip
>area as if it was laying on a flat table). It looks like the receiver in
>the column for the copilots side is angled out.
>
>With this, I will never get the stick parallel. They are not in the same
>plane. No it can't be corrected by rotating the shaft and redrilling. It is
>the column that is out of toe per say.
>
>Did anyone else notice this on their controls? I think, like the elevator
>control horns, there might be a sufficient deviation between rt and lf in
>the tooling.
>
>The pilots side control stick's plane looks perfectly oreinted straight
>ahead.
>
>I don't think the hand grip portion will be that noticeble to one flying
>the
>
>plane from either side.
>
>Any other ideas other that getting a new column and stick or just leaving
>it
>
>alone?
>
>John G.
>
>
>--
>11:27 AM
>
>
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