Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:35 AM - Re: Phosphoric Acid (Phillips, Jack)
2. 06:54 AM - Gascolator requirement (Ted French)
3. 07:59 AM - Re: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons (John Gonzalez)
4. 08:23 AM - Re: Gascolator requirement (Phillips, Jack)
5. 08:28 AM - Re: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons (Tim Olson)
6. 08:51 AM - Re: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons (John Gonzalez)
7. 09:11 AM - Re: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons (Randy DeBauw)
8. 09:32 AM - Re: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
9. 09:33 AM - Re: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons (Tim Olson)
10. 09:49 AM - Re: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons (Randy DeBauw)
11. 09:56 AM - Re: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons (John Gonzalez)
12. 10:32 AM - Re: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons (Scott Schmidt)
13. 11:07 AM - Re: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons (Tim Olson)
14. 11:21 AM - RV-10 in southwest Michigan (William Greenley)
15. 11:34 AM - Re: RV-10 in southwest Michigan (Phillips, Jack)
16. 11:41 AM - Re: RV-10 in southwest Michigan (Rene Felker)
17. 11:54 AM - Re: RV-10 in southwest Michigan (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
18. 12:00 PM - Re: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons (John Jessen)
19. 12:04 PM - Re: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons (Randy DeBauw)
20. 12:38 PM - Re: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons (GRANSCOTT@AOL.COM)
21. 12:45 PM - Re: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons (Tim Olson)
22. 12:54 PM - Re: RV-10 in southwest Michigan (William Greenley)
23. 01:42 PM - Re: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons (Chris Johnston)
24. 02:32 PM - Re: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons (John Jessen)
25. 03:38 PM - Re: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons (Tom Deutsch)
26. 04:13 PM - Re: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons (Bill DeRouchey)
27. 04:22 PM - Re: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons (Tim Olson)
28. 04:22 PM - Re: RV-10 in southwest Michigan (Eric Large)
29. 05:21 PM - AE Fuel Guardian Sensor Locations (Mark Lanier)
Message 1
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Poly Fiber makes Aluma-Dyne E-2310 phosphoric acid etch cleaner,
available through Aircraft Spruce. A.S.S also selsl Alumiprep 33, which
is another brand of phosphoric acid etch for aluminum. The alumiprep is
about $30 a gallon, the Aluma-Dyne is about $45 a gallon. Same stuff,
as near as I can tell. I've used both. You need to alodyne or prime
within 8 hours of acid etching the aluminum.
Jack Phillips
#40610
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:22 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Phosphoric Acid
Rene'
801-721-6080
Any ideas of where I can get some phosphoric acid?
Rene
N423CF
40322
Finish......or something like it.
_________________________________________________
Message 2
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| Subject: | Gascolator requirement |
I just had the final inspection on my RV-10 in Kelowna. Everything went well
but Transport Canada is insisting that I need to install a gascolator at the
lowest point in the fuel system.
I don't see how to install a gascolator at the lowest point, which has to be
the tank outlets. I want it on the downstream side of the fuel pump, and the
only mounting choices I see is to mount it on the firewall somewhere.
Has anyone else mounted a gascolator and if so where did you mount it.
I'm open to suggestions
Ted French C-FXCS
RV-10 almost ready to go.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons |
Tim,
So what you are telling us is that when you strapped the control stick
nuetral side to side but full back elevator with the seat belt, the aileron
alignment problem was gone. But any other time with the sick not in the full
back position, the ailerons droop.
The best that I can figure it is that the bushing reciever in the column is
not parallel to the holes in the fork which hold the aileron pushrod. Or, it
could be that the holes in the fork at the end of the tube which allows you
to tie the right and left sticks together is not perpendicular to the long
axis of the tube itself.
In other words, then the stick goes full forward to full back, this
translates into aileron movement even when the stick stays nuetral side to
side. The bottom of WD 1011 (R) (L) column travel is on a different arc then
your stick grip.
Am I understanding this correctly?
If so, did you just put the stick in slightly down elevator(Cruise position)
and then adjust the ailerons to their nuetral position.
So now with this adjustment, when the stick goes full back as in directly
before a slow speed stall, what do the ailerons do? A slight droop would be
okay only as long as flaps are down, but if no flaps are not deployed, this
would be a bad position to enter into a stall because the wing tip would
stall first before the in board portion of the wing did.
I think reflex would be slightly safer.
JOhn G.
>From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
>Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:27:40 -0500
>
>
>Yesterday I was looking for something to do for an hour
>to waste some time, and I decided to look at my ailerons.
>Some old-timers in the RV-10 lifetime may remember Randy had
>problems with his ailerons being rigged low, causing a reduction
>in stop speed. Well, I didn't think mine were originally
>rigged bad. It was strange, as sometimes I would look at the
>ailerons in the hanger and the would be perfectly in-line with
>the wingtips and flaps. Then other times I'd look at them
>in flight and the ailerons would be low on both sides just
>a small amount. I would get done flying and look at them
>and they'd be fine. I didn't know what to make of it. I thought
>maybe it was a lift or loading issue in-flight, but I just
>didn't know for sure. Didn't concern me much because it flew
>great for over 200 hours that way, but it did bug me that when
>I flew with people like Vic, he could notice that kind of thing.
>It's like having your fly down in public. ;)
>
>So anyway, I centered the sticks yesterday and they were OK in the
>hanger with the sticks neutral, but maybe off by a little more than
>1/8" per side. So I thought I'd adjust them. I strapped the seatbelt
>around the stick to keep them centered tight, and lo and behold the
>ailerons were now in-line very nicely.
>
>It was then that I realized that the small amount of travel induced
>in the ailerons with the elevator movement was the entire issue.
>So I used my aileron/rudder gust lock which centers the elevator and
>centered the sticks. Yeehaw, there was what I was looking for!
>The ailerons were now drooped about maybe 1/4" per side or
>so. So it WAS the elevator control, and in-flight the elevators
>are neutral. Time to adjust.
>
>When all was said and done, I had them adjusted to be matched with
>the wingtips and flaps in-flight, and I put about 2.5 hours on.
>It flies the same...not sure about speed as I never really try to
>fly top speed, but it looks nicer in cruise and can't hurt.
>
>So use that tip when you're rigging your ailerons for flight, and
>perhaps you'll not have to go over a year and 200 hours with
>droopy tips like I did.
>
>Tim
>
>--
>Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Gascolator requirement |
Ted,
I'm nowhere near that point on my RV-10, but on the previous airplane I
built, I located the gascolator on the firewall as you are describing.
Check out a Piper Cherokee, which has a similar fuel system. The
gascolator is located low on the firewall, but is higher than the fuel
tank sump drains as you describe.
One thing to be careful of when mounting the gascolator on the firewall:
Be sure it is high enough that if you make a bad landing and wipe the
landing gear off the plane, the gascolator will not be the lowest point
on the airplane. You want it high enough that the plane can rest on the
firewall without any chance of damaging the gascolator and causing a
fuel leak and fire
Jack Phillips
#40610
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted French
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 9:52 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Gascolator requirement
I just had the final inspection on my RV-10 in Kelowna. Everything went
well
but Transport Canada is insisting that I need to install a gascolator at
the
lowest point in the fuel system.
I don't see how to install a gascolator at the lowest point, which has
to be
the tank outlets. I want it on the downstream side of the fuel pump, and
the
only mounting choices I see is to mount it on the firewall somewhere.
Has anyone else mounted a gascolator and if so where did you mount it.
I'm open to suggestions
Ted French C-FXCS
RV-10 almost ready to go.
_________________________________________________
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons |
Don't make too big a deal of it John...it's not worth too
much investigation into the linkages and how exactly they
deflect and affect eachother. It isn't ONLY in full-aft-stick
that this changes, it's just a very slight progressive change
in the aileron alignment that affects them both equally with
increasing up elevator. I didn't check it with full-forward
stick to see if the alignment changes there too.
It's not a design defect, a big gotcha, or anything like that.
And I seriously doubt the deflection is big enough to be
a big safety problem too. It's just an effect of what
happens with the elevator/stick/ailerons all connected together.
For this alignment, I kept the elevator perfectly neutral
as I mentioned in the previous email, and then I aligned the
ailerons. Then in cruise I looked out and they looked
basically the same. So in cruise, my elevator was also
neutral. I assure you, in flight, the RV-10 is very pitch
sensitive and I seriously doubt you'll EVER put enough
elevator into ANY maneuver with the RV-10 to cause you any
heartache with the mis-alignment. It's simply an alignment
that you must do properly if you want them not to droop
in cruise. Your actual stick movement at both high and low
airspeeds is very tiny in the RV-10. I have never had to
worry about fat people's legs getting in the way, for
instance...you don't need that much elevator even on an
extremely twitchy turbulent approach. And I can almost
guarantee that you'll never use a HUGE portion of the available
up-elevator travel that you have...you'd rip the wings off.
You only use that much travel on landing rollout to slow the
plane.
No, go grab your rivet gun (or dental drill) and do
something to take your mind off this. ;)
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John Gonzalez wrote:
>
> Tim,
>
> So what you are telling us is that when you strapped the control stick
> nuetral side to side but full back elevator with the seat belt, the
> aileron alignment problem was gone. But any other time with the sick not
> in the full back position, the ailerons droop.
>
> The best that I can figure it is that the bushing reciever in the column
> is not parallel to the holes in the fork which hold the aileron pushrod.
> Or, it could be that the holes in the fork at the end of the tube which
> allows you to tie the right and left sticks together is not
> perpendicular to the long axis of the tube itself.
>
> In other words, then the stick goes full forward to full back, this
> translates into aileron movement even when the stick stays nuetral side
> to side. The bottom of WD 1011 (R) (L) column travel is on a different
> arc then your stick grip.
>
> Am I understanding this correctly?
>
> If so, did you just put the stick in slightly down elevator(Cruise
> position) and then adjust the ailerons to their nuetral position.
>
> So now with this adjustment, when the stick goes full back as in
> directly before a slow speed stall, what do the ailerons do? A slight
> droop would be okay only as long as flaps are down, but if no flaps are
> not deployed, this would be a bad position to enter into a stall because
> the wing tip would stall first before the in board portion of the wing did.
>
> I think reflex would be slightly safer.
>
> JOhn G.
>
>
>
>> From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
>> Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:27:40 -0500
>>
>>
>> Yesterday I was looking for something to do for an hour
>> to waste some time, and I decided to look at my ailerons.
>> Some old-timers in the RV-10 lifetime may remember Randy had
>> problems with his ailerons being rigged low, causing a reduction
>> in stop speed. Well, I didn't think mine were originally
>> rigged bad. It was strange, as sometimes I would look at the
>> ailerons in the hanger and the would be perfectly in-line with
>> the wingtips and flaps. Then other times I'd look at them
>> in flight and the ailerons would be low on both sides just
>> a small amount. I would get done flying and look at them
>> and they'd be fine. I didn't know what to make of it. I thought
>> maybe it was a lift or loading issue in-flight, but I just
>> didn't know for sure. Didn't concern me much because it flew
>> great for over 200 hours that way, but it did bug me that when
>> I flew with people like Vic, he could notice that kind of thing.
>> It's like having your fly down in public. ;)
>>
>> So anyway, I centered the sticks yesterday and they were OK in the
>> hanger with the sticks neutral, but maybe off by a little more than
>> 1/8" per side. So I thought I'd adjust them. I strapped the seatbelt
>> around the stick to keep them centered tight, and lo and behold the
>> ailerons were now in-line very nicely.
>>
>> It was then that I realized that the small amount of travel induced
>> in the ailerons with the elevator movement was the entire issue.
>> So I used my aileron/rudder gust lock which centers the elevator and
>> centered the sticks. Yeehaw, there was what I was looking for!
>> The ailerons were now drooped about maybe 1/4" per side or
>> so. So it WAS the elevator control, and in-flight the elevators
>> are neutral. Time to adjust.
>>
>> When all was said and done, I had them adjusted to be matched with
>> the wingtips and flaps in-flight, and I put about 2.5 hours on.
>> It flies the same...not sure about speed as I never really try to
>> fly top speed, but it looks nicer in cruise and can't hurt.
>>
>> So use that tip when you're rigging your ailerons for flight, and
>> perhaps you'll not have to go over a year and 200 hours with
>> droopy tips like I did.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> --
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons |
Thanks,
I had a 7 am patient and they cancelled over the weekend so I am in to the
office early with nothing to do.
JOhn G.
>From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
>Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:27:39 -0500
>
>
>Don't make too big a deal of it John...it's not worth too
>much investigation into the linkages and how exactly they
>deflect and affect eachother. It isn't ONLY in full-aft-stick
>that this changes, it's just a very slight progressive change
>in the aileron alignment that affects them both equally with
>increasing up elevator. I didn't check it with full-forward
>stick to see if the alignment changes there too.
>
>It's not a design defect, a big gotcha, or anything like that.
>And I seriously doubt the deflection is big enough to be
>a big safety problem too. It's just an effect of what
>happens with the elevator/stick/ailerons all connected together.
>
>For this alignment, I kept the elevator perfectly neutral
>as I mentioned in the previous email, and then I aligned the
>ailerons. Then in cruise I looked out and they looked
>basically the same. So in cruise, my elevator was also
>neutral. I assure you, in flight, the RV-10 is very pitch
>sensitive and I seriously doubt you'll EVER put enough
>elevator into ANY maneuver with the RV-10 to cause you any
>heartache with the mis-alignment. It's simply an alignment
>that you must do properly if you want them not to droop
>in cruise. Your actual stick movement at both high and low
>airspeeds is very tiny in the RV-10. I have never had to
>worry about fat people's legs getting in the way, for
>instance...you don't need that much elevator even on an
>extremely twitchy turbulent approach. And I can almost
>guarantee that you'll never use a HUGE portion of the available
>up-elevator travel that you have...you'd rip the wings off.
>You only use that much travel on landing rollout to slow the
>plane.
>
>No, go grab your rivet gun (or dental drill) and do
>something to take your mind off this. ;)
>
>Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>do not archive
>
>
>John Gonzalez wrote:
>>
>>Tim,
>>
>>So what you are telling us is that when you strapped the control stick
>>nuetral side to side but full back elevator with the seat belt, the
>>aileron alignment problem was gone. But any other time with the sick not
>>in the full back position, the ailerons droop.
>>
>>The best that I can figure it is that the bushing reciever in the column
>>is not parallel to the holes in the fork which hold the aileron pushrod.
>>Or, it could be that the holes in the fork at the end of the tube which
>>allows you to tie the right and left sticks together is not perpendicular
>>to the long axis of the tube itself.
>>
>>In other words, then the stick goes full forward to full back, this
>>translates into aileron movement even when the stick stays nuetral side to
>>side. The bottom of WD 1011 (R) (L) column travel is on a different arc
>>then your stick grip.
>>
>>Am I understanding this correctly?
>>
>>If so, did you just put the stick in slightly down elevator(Cruise
>>position) and then adjust the ailerons to their nuetral position.
>>
>>So now with this adjustment, when the stick goes full back as in directly
>>before a slow speed stall, what do the ailerons do? A slight droop would
>>be okay only as long as flaps are down, but if no flaps are not deployed,
>>this would be a bad position to enter into a stall because the wing tip
>>would stall first before the in board portion of the wing did.
>>
>>I think reflex would be slightly safer.
>>
>>JOhn G.
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
>>>Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:27:40 -0500
>>>
>>>
>>>Yesterday I was looking for something to do for an hour
>>>to waste some time, and I decided to look at my ailerons.
>>>Some old-timers in the RV-10 lifetime may remember Randy had
>>>problems with his ailerons being rigged low, causing a reduction
>>>in stop speed. Well, I didn't think mine were originally
>>>rigged bad. It was strange, as sometimes I would look at the
>>>ailerons in the hanger and the would be perfectly in-line with
>>>the wingtips and flaps. Then other times I'd look at them
>>>in flight and the ailerons would be low on both sides just
>>>a small amount. I would get done flying and look at them
>>>and they'd be fine. I didn't know what to make of it. I thought
>>>maybe it was a lift or loading issue in-flight, but I just
>>>didn't know for sure. Didn't concern me much because it flew
>>>great for over 200 hours that way, but it did bug me that when
>>>I flew with people like Vic, he could notice that kind of thing.
>>>It's like having your fly down in public. ;)
>>>
>>>So anyway, I centered the sticks yesterday and they were OK in the
>>>hanger with the sticks neutral, but maybe off by a little more than
>>>1/8" per side. So I thought I'd adjust them. I strapped the seatbelt
>>>around the stick to keep them centered tight, and lo and behold the
>>>ailerons were now in-line very nicely.
>>>
>>>It was then that I realized that the small amount of travel induced
>>>in the ailerons with the elevator movement was the entire issue.
>>>So I used my aileron/rudder gust lock which centers the elevator and
>>>centered the sticks. Yeehaw, there was what I was looking for!
>>>The ailerons were now drooped about maybe 1/4" per side or
>>>so. So it WAS the elevator control, and in-flight the elevators
>>>are neutral. Time to adjust.
>>>
>>>When all was said and done, I had them adjusted to be matched with
>>>the wingtips and flaps in-flight, and I put about 2.5 hours on.
>>>It flies the same...not sure about speed as I never really try to
>>>fly top speed, but it looks nicer in cruise and can't hurt.
>>>
>>>So use that tip when you're rigging your ailerons for flight, and
>>>perhaps you'll not have to go over a year and 200 hours with
>>>droopy tips like I did.
>>>
>>>Tim
>>>
>>>--
>>>Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons |
I have been watching this post with interest. I just wanted to chime in
on how I made my adj. It was obvious that in level flight, calm air and
auto pilot on that my ailerons were down about 1/4" on each side. I
made the adjustment to them and lined them up per the book. Then I few
several hours looking at the alignment. I noticed that ailerons in
flight were down again about 1/16 to and 1/8". Well if you look at the
flaps and how full up is determined it is by the rear spar doubler. If
you have the flaps full up and then lift slightly on the outboard
trailing edge you will get a slight deflection up. This is because the
flaps on the outboard end (next to the aileron) does not have a stop
except the rear spar. I lifted the ailerons some more and that is how it
has been set for the last 80 hours or so.
I had a talk with a Bonanza driver one day and he said that raising the
ailerons on a Bonanza was an old speed trick. The 10 has a limit to this
because the forward edge will be deeper in the slip stream the more you
raise the trailing edge. Randy 40006
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
<indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
Thanks,
I had a 7 am patient and they cancelled over the weekend so I am in to
the
office early with nothing to do.
JOhn G.
>From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
>Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:27:39 -0500
>
>
>Don't make too big a deal of it John...it's not worth too
>much investigation into the linkages and how exactly they
>deflect and affect eachother. It isn't ONLY in full-aft-stick
>that this changes, it's just a very slight progressive change
>in the aileron alignment that affects them both equally with
>increasing up elevator. I didn't check it with full-forward
>stick to see if the alignment changes there too.
>
>It's not a design defect, a big gotcha, or anything like that.
>And I seriously doubt the deflection is big enough to be
>a big safety problem too. It's just an effect of what
>happens with the elevator/stick/ailerons all connected together.
>
>For this alignment, I kept the elevator perfectly neutral
>as I mentioned in the previous email, and then I aligned the
>ailerons. Then in cruise I looked out and they looked
>basically the same. So in cruise, my elevator was also
>neutral. I assure you, in flight, the RV-10 is very pitch
>sensitive and I seriously doubt you'll EVER put enough
>elevator into ANY maneuver with the RV-10 to cause you any
>heartache with the mis-alignment. It's simply an alignment
>that you must do properly if you want them not to droop
>in cruise. Your actual stick movement at both high and low
>airspeeds is very tiny in the RV-10. I have never had to
>worry about fat people's legs getting in the way, for
>instance...you don't need that much elevator even on an
>extremely twitchy turbulent approach. And I can almost
>guarantee that you'll never use a HUGE portion of the available
>up-elevator travel that you have...you'd rip the wings off.
>You only use that much travel on landing rollout to slow the
>plane.
>
>No, go grab your rivet gun (or dental drill) and do
>something to take your mind off this. ;)
>
>Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>do not archive
>
>
>John Gonzalez wrote:
<indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>>
>>Tim,
>>
>>So what you are telling us is that when you strapped the control stick
>>nuetral side to side but full back elevator with the seat belt, the
>>aileron alignment problem was gone. But any other time with the sick
not
>>in the full back position, the ailerons droop.
>>
>>The best that I can figure it is that the bushing reciever in the
column
>>is not parallel to the holes in the fork which hold the aileron
pushrod.
>>Or, it could be that the holes in the fork at the end of the tube
which
>>allows you to tie the right and left sticks together is not
perpendicular
>>to the long axis of the tube itself.
>>
>>In other words, then the stick goes full forward to full back, this
>>translates into aileron movement even when the stick stays nuetral
side to
>>side. The bottom of WD 1011 (R) (L) column travel is on a different
arc
>>then your stick grip.
>>
>>Am I understanding this correctly?
>>
>>If so, did you just put the stick in slightly down elevator(Cruise
>>position) and then adjust the ailerons to their nuetral position.
>>
>>So now with this adjustment, when the stick goes full back as in
directly
>>before a slow speed stall, what do the ailerons do? A slight droop
would
>>be okay only as long as flaps are down, but if no flaps are not
deployed,
>>this would be a bad position to enter into a stall because the wing
tip
>>would stall first before the in board portion of the wing did.
>>
>>I think reflex would be slightly safer.
>>
>>JOhn G.
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
>>>Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:27:40 -0500
>>>
>>>
>>>Yesterday I was looking for something to do for an hour
>>>to waste some time, and I decided to look at my ailerons.
>>>Some old-timers in the RV-10 lifetime may remember Randy had
>>>problems with his ailerons being rigged low, causing a reduction
>>>in stop speed. Well, I didn't think mine were originally
>>>rigged bad. It was strange, as sometimes I would look at the
>>>ailerons in the hanger and the would be perfectly in-line with
>>>the wingtips and flaps. Then other times I'd look at them
>>>in flight and the ailerons would be low on both sides just
>>>a small amount. I would get done flying and look at them
>>>and they'd be fine. I didn't know what to make of it. I thought
>>>maybe it was a lift or loading issue in-flight, but I just
>>>didn't know for sure. Didn't concern me much because it flew
>>>great for over 200 hours that way, but it did bug me that when
>>>I flew with people like Vic, he could notice that kind of thing.
>>>It's like having your fly down in public. ;)
>>>
>>>So anyway, I centered the sticks yesterday and they were OK in the
>>>hanger with the sticks neutral, but maybe off by a little more than
>>>1/8" per side. So I thought I'd adjust them. I strapped the
seatbelt
>>>around the stick to keep them centered tight, and lo and behold the
>>>ailerons were now in-line very nicely.
>>>
>>>It was then that I realized that the small amount of travel induced
>>>in the ailerons with the elevator movement was the entire issue.
>>>So I used my aileron/rudder gust lock which centers the elevator and
>>>centered the sticks. Yeehaw, there was what I was looking for!
>>>The ailerons were now drooped about maybe 1/4" per side or
>>>so. So it WAS the elevator control, and in-flight the elevators
>>>are neutral. Time to adjust.
>>>
>>>When all was said and done, I had them adjusted to be matched with
>>>the wingtips and flaps in-flight, and I put about 2.5 hours on.
>>>It flies the same...not sure about speed as I never really try to
>>>fly top speed, but it looks nicer in cruise and can't hurt.
>>>
>>>So use that tip when you're rigging your ailerons for flight, and
>>>perhaps you'll not have to go over a year and 200 hours with
>>>droopy tips like I did.
>>>
>>>Tim
>>>
>>>--
>>>Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons |
You should be priming your battery tray and figuring out the Andair
fittings then...
Dan
N289DT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
<indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
Thanks,
I had a 7 am patient and they cancelled over the weekend so I am in to
the
office early with nothing to do.
JOhn G.
>From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
>Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:27:39 -0500
>
>
>Don't make too big a deal of it John...it's not worth too
>much investigation into the linkages and how exactly they
>deflect and affect eachother. It isn't ONLY in full-aft-stick
>that this changes, it's just a very slight progressive change
>in the aileron alignment that affects them both equally with
>increasing up elevator. I didn't check it with full-forward
>stick to see if the alignment changes there too.
>
>It's not a design defect, a big gotcha, or anything like that.
>And I seriously doubt the deflection is big enough to be
>a big safety problem too. It's just an effect of what
>happens with the elevator/stick/ailerons all connected together.
>
>For this alignment, I kept the elevator perfectly neutral
>as I mentioned in the previous email, and then I aligned the
>ailerons. Then in cruise I looked out and they looked
>basically the same. So in cruise, my elevator was also
>neutral. I assure you, in flight, the RV-10 is very pitch
>sensitive and I seriously doubt you'll EVER put enough
>elevator into ANY maneuver with the RV-10 to cause you any
>heartache with the mis-alignment. It's simply an alignment
>that you must do properly if you want them not to droop
>in cruise. Your actual stick movement at both high and low
>airspeeds is very tiny in the RV-10. I have never had to
>worry about fat people's legs getting in the way, for
>instance...you don't need that much elevator even on an
>extremely twitchy turbulent approach. And I can almost
>guarantee that you'll never use a HUGE portion of the available
>up-elevator travel that you have...you'd rip the wings off.
>You only use that much travel on landing rollout to slow the
>plane.
>
>No, go grab your rivet gun (or dental drill) and do
>something to take your mind off this. ;)
>
>Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>do not archive
>
>
>John Gonzalez wrote:
<indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>>
>>Tim,
>>
>>So what you are telling us is that when you strapped the control stick
>>nuetral side to side but full back elevator with the seat belt, the
>>aileron alignment problem was gone. But any other time with the sick
not
>>in the full back position, the ailerons droop.
>>
>>The best that I can figure it is that the bushing reciever in the
column
>>is not parallel to the holes in the fork which hold the aileron
pushrod.
>>Or, it could be that the holes in the fork at the end of the tube
which
>>allows you to tie the right and left sticks together is not
perpendicular
>>to the long axis of the tube itself.
>>
>>In other words, then the stick goes full forward to full back, this
>>translates into aileron movement even when the stick stays nuetral
side to
>>side. The bottom of WD 1011 (R) (L) column travel is on a different
arc
>>then your stick grip.
>>
>>Am I understanding this correctly?
>>
>>If so, did you just put the stick in slightly down elevator(Cruise
>>position) and then adjust the ailerons to their nuetral position.
>>
>>So now with this adjustment, when the stick goes full back as in
directly
>>before a slow speed stall, what do the ailerons do? A slight droop
would
>>be okay only as long as flaps are down, but if no flaps are not
deployed,
>>this would be a bad position to enter into a stall because the wing
tip
>>would stall first before the in board portion of the wing did.
>>
>>I think reflex would be slightly safer.
>>
>>JOhn G.
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
>>>Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:27:40 -0500
>>>
>>>
>>>Yesterday I was looking for something to do for an hour
>>>to waste some time, and I decided to look at my ailerons.
>>>Some old-timers in the RV-10 lifetime may remember Randy had
>>>problems with his ailerons being rigged low, causing a reduction
>>>in stop speed. Well, I didn't think mine were originally
>>>rigged bad. It was strange, as sometimes I would look at the
>>>ailerons in the hanger and the would be perfectly in-line with
>>>the wingtips and flaps. Then other times I'd look at them
>>>in flight and the ailerons would be low on both sides just
>>>a small amount. I would get done flying and look at them
>>>and they'd be fine. I didn't know what to make of it. I thought
>>>maybe it was a lift or loading issue in-flight, but I just
>>>didn't know for sure. Didn't concern me much because it flew
>>>great for over 200 hours that way, but it did bug me that when
>>>I flew with people like Vic, he could notice that kind of thing.
>>>It's like having your fly down in public. ;)
>>>
>>>So anyway, I centered the sticks yesterday and they were OK in the
>>>hanger with the sticks neutral, but maybe off by a little more than
>>>1/8" per side. So I thought I'd adjust them. I strapped the
seatbelt
>>>around the stick to keep them centered tight, and lo and behold the
>>>ailerons were now in-line very nicely.
>>>
>>>It was then that I realized that the small amount of travel induced
>>>in the ailerons with the elevator movement was the entire issue.
>>>So I used my aileron/rudder gust lock which centers the elevator and
>>>centered the sticks. Yeehaw, there was what I was looking for!
>>>The ailerons were now drooped about maybe 1/4" per side or
>>>so. So it WAS the elevator control, and in-flight the elevators
>>>are neutral. Time to adjust.
>>>
>>>When all was said and done, I had them adjusted to be matched with
>>>the wingtips and flaps in-flight, and I put about 2.5 hours on.
>>>It flies the same...not sure about speed as I never really try to
>>>fly top speed, but it looks nicer in cruise and can't hurt.
>>>
>>>So use that tip when you're rigging your ailerons for flight, and
>>>perhaps you'll not have to go over a year and 200 hours with
>>>droopy tips like I did.
>>>
>>>Tim
>>>
>>>--
>>>Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 9
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|
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons |
That's a good observation on the flap stop...it's that huge doubler
that you're talking about I'm sure.
So the biggest point you're making, if I'm not mistaken is, when
you adjust the ailerons up, do a quick doublecheck to make sure
that even when you apply some up pressure on them, the nose of
the aileron doesn't dip down into the slipstream, right? And,
if you adjust them to be perfectly inline, you probably won't have
that problem, but if you try to give them some "reflex" to reduce
drag, you may have that issue.
Did I get it right?
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Randy DeBauw wrote:
>
> I have been watching this post with interest. I just wanted to chime in
> on how I made my adj. It was obvious that in level flight, calm air and
> auto pilot on that my ailerons were down about 1/4" on each side. I
> made the adjustment to them and lined them up per the book. Then I few
> several hours looking at the alignment. I noticed that ailerons in
> flight were down again about 1/16 to and 1/8". Well if you look at the
> flaps and how full up is determined it is by the rear spar doubler. If
> you have the flaps full up and then lift slightly on the outboard
> trailing edge you will get a slight deflection up. This is because the
> flaps on the outboard end (next to the aileron) does not have a stop
> except the rear spar. I lifted the ailerons some more and that is how it
> has been set for the last 80 hours or so.
>
> I had a talk with a Bonanza driver one day and he said that raising the
> ailerons on a Bonanza was an old speed trick. The 10 has a limit to this
> because the forward edge will be deeper in the slip stream the more you
> raise the trailing edge. Randy 40006
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 8:50 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
>
> <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>
> Thanks,
>
> I had a 7 am patient and they cancelled over the weekend so I am in to
> the
> office early with nothing to do.
>
> JOhn G.
>
>
>> From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
>> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:27:39 -0500
>>
>>
>> Don't make too big a deal of it John...it's not worth too
>> much investigation into the linkages and how exactly they
>> deflect and affect eachother. It isn't ONLY in full-aft-stick
>> that this changes, it's just a very slight progressive change
>> in the aileron alignment that affects them both equally with
>> increasing up elevator. I didn't check it with full-forward
>> stick to see if the alignment changes there too.
>>
>> It's not a design defect, a big gotcha, or anything like that.
>> And I seriously doubt the deflection is big enough to be
>> a big safety problem too. It's just an effect of what
>> happens with the elevator/stick/ailerons all connected together.
>>
>> For this alignment, I kept the elevator perfectly neutral
>> as I mentioned in the previous email, and then I aligned the
>> ailerons. Then in cruise I looked out and they looked
>> basically the same. So in cruise, my elevator was also
>> neutral. I assure you, in flight, the RV-10 is very pitch
>> sensitive and I seriously doubt you'll EVER put enough
>> elevator into ANY maneuver with the RV-10 to cause you any
>> heartache with the mis-alignment. It's simply an alignment
>> that you must do properly if you want them not to droop
>> in cruise. Your actual stick movement at both high and low
>> airspeeds is very tiny in the RV-10. I have never had to
>> worry about fat people's legs getting in the way, for
>> instance...you don't need that much elevator even on an
>> extremely twitchy turbulent approach. And I can almost
>> guarantee that you'll never use a HUGE portion of the available
>> up-elevator travel that you have...you'd rip the wings off.
>> You only use that much travel on landing rollout to slow the
>> plane.
>>
>> No, go grab your rivet gun (or dental drill) and do
>> something to take your mind off this. ;)
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> John Gonzalez wrote:
> <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>>> Tim,
>>>
>>> So what you are telling us is that when you strapped the control stick
>
>>> nuetral side to side but full back elevator with the seat belt, the
>>> aileron alignment problem was gone. But any other time with the sick
> not
>>> in the full back position, the ailerons droop.
>>>
>>> The best that I can figure it is that the bushing reciever in the
> column
>>> is not parallel to the holes in the fork which hold the aileron
> pushrod.
>>> Or, it could be that the holes in the fork at the end of the tube
> which
>>> allows you to tie the right and left sticks together is not
> perpendicular
>>> to the long axis of the tube itself.
>>>
>>> In other words, then the stick goes full forward to full back, this
>>> translates into aileron movement even when the stick stays nuetral
> side to
>>> side. The bottom of WD 1011 (R) (L) column travel is on a different
> arc
>>> then your stick grip.
>>>
>>> Am I understanding this correctly?
>>>
>>> If so, did you just put the stick in slightly down elevator(Cruise
>>> position) and then adjust the ailerons to their nuetral position.
>>>
>>> So now with this adjustment, when the stick goes full back as in
> directly
>>> before a slow speed stall, what do the ailerons do? A slight droop
> would
>>> be okay only as long as flaps are down, but if no flaps are not
> deployed,
>>> this would be a bad position to enter into a stall because the wing
> tip
>>> would stall first before the in board portion of the wing did.
>>>
>>> I think reflex would be slightly safer.
>>>
>>> JOhn G.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
>>>> Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:27:40 -0500
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yesterday I was looking for something to do for an hour
>>>> to waste some time, and I decided to look at my ailerons.
>>>> Some old-timers in the RV-10 lifetime may remember Randy had
>>>> problems with his ailerons being rigged low, causing a reduction
>>>> in stop speed. Well, I didn't think mine were originally
>>>> rigged bad. It was strange, as sometimes I would look at the
>>>> ailerons in the hanger and the would be perfectly in-line with
>>>> the wingtips and flaps. Then other times I'd look at them
>>>> in flight and the ailerons would be low on both sides just
>>>> a small amount. I would get done flying and look at them
>>>> and they'd be fine. I didn't know what to make of it. I thought
>>>> maybe it was a lift or loading issue in-flight, but I just
>>>> didn't know for sure. Didn't concern me much because it flew
>>>> great for over 200 hours that way, but it did bug me that when
>>>> I flew with people like Vic, he could notice that kind of thing.
>>>> It's like having your fly down in public. ;)
>>>>
>>>> So anyway, I centered the sticks yesterday and they were OK in the
>>>> hanger with the sticks neutral, but maybe off by a little more than
>>>> 1/8" per side. So I thought I'd adjust them. I strapped the
> seatbelt
>>>> around the stick to keep them centered tight, and lo and behold the
>>>> ailerons were now in-line very nicely.
>>>>
>>>> It was then that I realized that the small amount of travel induced
>>>> in the ailerons with the elevator movement was the entire issue.
>>>> So I used my aileron/rudder gust lock which centers the elevator and
>>>> centered the sticks. Yeehaw, there was what I was looking for!
>>>> The ailerons were now drooped about maybe 1/4" per side or
>>>> so. So it WAS the elevator control, and in-flight the elevators
>>>> are neutral. Time to adjust.
>>>>
>>>> When all was said and done, I had them adjusted to be matched with
>>>> the wingtips and flaps in-flight, and I put about 2.5 hours on.
>>>> It flies the same...not sure about speed as I never really try to
>>>> fly top speed, but it looks nicer in cruise and can't hurt.
>>>>
>>>> So use that tip when you're rigging your ailerons for flight, and
>>>> perhaps you'll not have to go over a year and 200 hours with
>>>> droopy tips like I did.
>>>>
>>>> Tim
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
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|
| Subject: | Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons |
PERFECT TIM. That is why you are the GRAND MASTER. Later, Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
That's a good observation on the flap stop...it's that huge doubler
that you're talking about I'm sure.
So the biggest point you're making, if I'm not mistaken is, when
you adjust the ailerons up, do a quick doublecheck to make sure
that even when you apply some up pressure on them, the nose of
the aileron doesn't dip down into the slipstream, right? And,
if you adjust them to be perfectly inline, you probably won't have
that problem, but if you try to give them some "reflex" to reduce
drag, you may have that issue.
Did I get it right?
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Randy DeBauw wrote:
>
> I have been watching this post with interest. I just wanted to chime
in
> on how I made my adj. It was obvious that in level flight, calm air
and
> auto pilot on that my ailerons were down about 1/4" on each side. I
> made the adjustment to them and lined them up per the book. Then I few
> several hours looking at the alignment. I noticed that ailerons in
> flight were down again about 1/16 to and 1/8". Well if you look at the
> flaps and how full up is determined it is by the rear spar doubler. If
> you have the flaps full up and then lift slightly on the outboard
> trailing edge you will get a slight deflection up. This is because the
> flaps on the outboard end (next to the aileron) does not have a stop
> except the rear spar. I lifted the ailerons some more and that is how
it
> has been set for the last 80 hours or so.
>
> I had a talk with a Bonanza driver one day and he said that raising
the
> ailerons on a Bonanza was an old speed trick. The 10 has a limit to
this
> because the forward edge will be deeper in the slip stream the more
you
> raise the trailing edge. Randy 40006
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Gonzalez
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 8:50 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
>
> <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>
> Thanks,
>
> I had a 7 am patient and they cancelled over the weekend so I am in to
> the
> office early with nothing to do.
>
> JOhn G.
>
>
>> From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
>> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:27:39 -0500
>>
>>
>> Don't make too big a deal of it John...it's not worth too
>> much investigation into the linkages and how exactly they
>> deflect and affect eachother. It isn't ONLY in full-aft-stick
>> that this changes, it's just a very slight progressive change
>> in the aileron alignment that affects them both equally with
>> increasing up elevator. I didn't check it with full-forward
>> stick to see if the alignment changes there too.
>>
>> It's not a design defect, a big gotcha, or anything like that.
>> And I seriously doubt the deflection is big enough to be
>> a big safety problem too. It's just an effect of what
>> happens with the elevator/stick/ailerons all connected together.
>>
>> For this alignment, I kept the elevator perfectly neutral
>> as I mentioned in the previous email, and then I aligned the
>> ailerons. Then in cruise I looked out and they looked
>> basically the same. So in cruise, my elevator was also
>> neutral. I assure you, in flight, the RV-10 is very pitch
>> sensitive and I seriously doubt you'll EVER put enough
>> elevator into ANY maneuver with the RV-10 to cause you any
>> heartache with the mis-alignment. It's simply an alignment
>> that you must do properly if you want them not to droop
>> in cruise. Your actual stick movement at both high and low
>> airspeeds is very tiny in the RV-10. I have never had to
>> worry about fat people's legs getting in the way, for
>> instance...you don't need that much elevator even on an
>> extremely twitchy turbulent approach. And I can almost
>> guarantee that you'll never use a HUGE portion of the available
>> up-elevator travel that you have...you'd rip the wings off.
>> You only use that much travel on landing rollout to slow the
>> plane.
>>
>> No, go grab your rivet gun (or dental drill) and do
>> something to take your mind off this. ;)
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> John Gonzalez wrote:
> <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>>> Tim,
>>>
>>> So what you are telling us is that when you strapped the control
stick
>
>>> nuetral side to side but full back elevator with the seat belt, the
>>> aileron alignment problem was gone. But any other time with the sick
> not
>>> in the full back position, the ailerons droop.
>>>
>>> The best that I can figure it is that the bushing reciever in the
> column
>>> is not parallel to the holes in the fork which hold the aileron
> pushrod.
>>> Or, it could be that the holes in the fork at the end of the tube
> which
>>> allows you to tie the right and left sticks together is not
> perpendicular
>>> to the long axis of the tube itself.
>>>
>>> In other words, then the stick goes full forward to full back, this
>>> translates into aileron movement even when the stick stays nuetral
> side to
>>> side. The bottom of WD 1011 (R) (L) column travel is on a different
> arc
>>> then your stick grip.
>>>
>>> Am I understanding this correctly?
>>>
>>> If so, did you just put the stick in slightly down elevator(Cruise
>>> position) and then adjust the ailerons to their nuetral position.
>>>
>>> So now with this adjustment, when the stick goes full back as in
> directly
>>> before a slow speed stall, what do the ailerons do? A slight droop
> would
>>> be okay only as long as flaps are down, but if no flaps are not
> deployed,
>>> this would be a bad position to enter into a stall because the wing
> tip
>>> would stall first before the in board portion of the wing did.
>>>
>>> I think reflex would be slightly safer.
>>>
>>> JOhn G.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
>>>> Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:27:40 -0500
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yesterday I was looking for something to do for an hour
>>>> to waste some time, and I decided to look at my ailerons.
>>>> Some old-timers in the RV-10 lifetime may remember Randy had
>>>> problems with his ailerons being rigged low, causing a reduction
>>>> in stop speed. Well, I didn't think mine were originally
>>>> rigged bad. It was strange, as sometimes I would look at the
>>>> ailerons in the hanger and the would be perfectly in-line with
>>>> the wingtips and flaps. Then other times I'd look at them
>>>> in flight and the ailerons would be low on both sides just
>>>> a small amount. I would get done flying and look at them
>>>> and they'd be fine. I didn't know what to make of it. I thought
>>>> maybe it was a lift or loading issue in-flight, but I just
>>>> didn't know for sure. Didn't concern me much because it flew
>>>> great for over 200 hours that way, but it did bug me that when
>>>> I flew with people like Vic, he could notice that kind of thing.
>>>> It's like having your fly down in public. ;)
>>>>
>>>> So anyway, I centered the sticks yesterday and they were OK in the
>>>> hanger with the sticks neutral, but maybe off by a little more than
>>>> 1/8" per side. So I thought I'd adjust them. I strapped the
> seatbelt
>>>> around the stick to keep them centered tight, and lo and behold the
>>>> ailerons were now in-line very nicely.
>>>>
>>>> It was then that I realized that the small amount of travel induced
>>>> in the ailerons with the elevator movement was the entire issue.
>>>> So I used my aileron/rudder gust lock which centers the elevator
and
>>>> centered the sticks. Yeehaw, there was what I was looking for!
>>>> The ailerons were now drooped about maybe 1/4" per side or
>>>> so. So it WAS the elevator control, and in-flight the elevators
>>>> are neutral. Time to adjust.
>>>>
>>>> When all was said and done, I had them adjusted to be matched with
>>>> the wingtips and flaps in-flight, and I put about 2.5 hours on.
>>>> It flies the same...not sure about speed as I never really try to
>>>> fly top speed, but it looks nicer in cruise and can't hurt.
>>>>
>>>> So use that tip when you're rigging your ailerons for flight, and
>>>> perhaps you'll not have to go over a year and 200 hours with
>>>> droopy tips like I did.
>>>>
>>>> Tim
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons |
Already done my friend.
Going to fed ex, break between patients, to send back my control stick and
base.
john
>From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR@wernerco.com>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
>Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 12:25:38 -0400
>
>
>You should be priming your battery tray and figuring out the Andair
>fittings then...
>Dan
>N289DT
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
>Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 11:50 AM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
>
><indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>
>Thanks,
>
>I had a 7 am patient and they cancelled over the weekend so I am in to
>the
>office early with nothing to do.
>
>JOhn G.
>
>
> >From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> >To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
> >Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:27:39 -0500
> >
> >
> >Don't make too big a deal of it John...it's not worth too
> >much investigation into the linkages and how exactly they
> >deflect and affect eachother. It isn't ONLY in full-aft-stick
> >that this changes, it's just a very slight progressive change
> >in the aileron alignment that affects them both equally with
> >increasing up elevator. I didn't check it with full-forward
> >stick to see if the alignment changes there too.
> >
> >It's not a design defect, a big gotcha, or anything like that.
> >And I seriously doubt the deflection is big enough to be
> >a big safety problem too. It's just an effect of what
> >happens with the elevator/stick/ailerons all connected together.
> >
> >For this alignment, I kept the elevator perfectly neutral
> >as I mentioned in the previous email, and then I aligned the
> >ailerons. Then in cruise I looked out and they looked
> >basically the same. So in cruise, my elevator was also
> >neutral. I assure you, in flight, the RV-10 is very pitch
> >sensitive and I seriously doubt you'll EVER put enough
> >elevator into ANY maneuver with the RV-10 to cause you any
> >heartache with the mis-alignment. It's simply an alignment
> >that you must do properly if you want them not to droop
> >in cruise. Your actual stick movement at both high and low
> >airspeeds is very tiny in the RV-10. I have never had to
> >worry about fat people's legs getting in the way, for
> >instance...you don't need that much elevator even on an
> >extremely twitchy turbulent approach. And I can almost
> >guarantee that you'll never use a HUGE portion of the available
> >up-elevator travel that you have...you'd rip the wings off.
> >You only use that much travel on landing rollout to slow the
> >plane.
> >
> >No, go grab your rivet gun (or dental drill) and do
> >something to take your mind off this. ;)
> >
> >Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> >do not archive
> >
> >
> >John Gonzalez wrote:
><indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
> >>
> >>Tim,
> >>
> >>So what you are telling us is that when you strapped the control stick
>
> >>nuetral side to side but full back elevator with the seat belt, the
> >>aileron alignment problem was gone. But any other time with the sick
>not
> >>in the full back position, the ailerons droop.
> >>
> >>The best that I can figure it is that the bushing reciever in the
>column
> >>is not parallel to the holes in the fork which hold the aileron
>pushrod.
> >>Or, it could be that the holes in the fork at the end of the tube
>which
> >>allows you to tie the right and left sticks together is not
>perpendicular
> >>to the long axis of the tube itself.
> >>
> >>In other words, then the stick goes full forward to full back, this
> >>translates into aileron movement even when the stick stays nuetral
>side to
> >>side. The bottom of WD 1011 (R) (L) column travel is on a different
>arc
> >>then your stick grip.
> >>
> >>Am I understanding this correctly?
> >>
> >>If so, did you just put the stick in slightly down elevator(Cruise
> >>position) and then adjust the ailerons to their nuetral position.
> >>
> >>So now with this adjustment, when the stick goes full back as in
>directly
> >>before a slow speed stall, what do the ailerons do? A slight droop
>would
> >>be okay only as long as flaps are down, but if no flaps are not
>deployed,
> >>this would be a bad position to enter into a stall because the wing
>tip
> >>would stall first before the in board portion of the wing did.
> >>
> >>I think reflex would be slightly safer.
> >>
> >>JOhn G.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> >>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> >>>Subject: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
> >>>Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:27:40 -0500
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Yesterday I was looking for something to do for an hour
> >>>to waste some time, and I decided to look at my ailerons.
> >>>Some old-timers in the RV-10 lifetime may remember Randy had
> >>>problems with his ailerons being rigged low, causing a reduction
> >>>in stop speed. Well, I didn't think mine were originally
> >>>rigged bad. It was strange, as sometimes I would look at the
> >>>ailerons in the hanger and the would be perfectly in-line with
> >>>the wingtips and flaps. Then other times I'd look at them
> >>>in flight and the ailerons would be low on both sides just
> >>>a small amount. I would get done flying and look at them
> >>>and they'd be fine. I didn't know what to make of it. I thought
> >>>maybe it was a lift or loading issue in-flight, but I just
> >>>didn't know for sure. Didn't concern me much because it flew
> >>>great for over 200 hours that way, but it did bug me that when
> >>>I flew with people like Vic, he could notice that kind of thing.
> >>>It's like having your fly down in public. ;)
> >>>
> >>>So anyway, I centered the sticks yesterday and they were OK in the
> >>>hanger with the sticks neutral, but maybe off by a little more than
> >>>1/8" per side. So I thought I'd adjust them. I strapped the
>seatbelt
> >>>around the stick to keep them centered tight, and lo and behold the
> >>>ailerons were now in-line very nicely.
> >>>
> >>>It was then that I realized that the small amount of travel induced
> >>>in the ailerons with the elevator movement was the entire issue.
> >>>So I used my aileron/rudder gust lock which centers the elevator and
> >>>centered the sticks. Yeehaw, there was what I was looking for!
> >>>The ailerons were now drooped about maybe 1/4" per side or
> >>>so. So it WAS the elevator control, and in-flight the elevators
> >>>are neutral. Time to adjust.
> >>>
> >>>When all was said and done, I had them adjusted to be matched with
> >>>the wingtips and flaps in-flight, and I put about 2.5 hours on.
> >>>It flies the same...not sure about speed as I never really try to
> >>>fly top speed, but it looks nicer in cruise and can't hurt.
> >>>
> >>>So use that tip when you're rigging your ailerons for flight, and
> >>>perhaps you'll not have to go over a year and 200 hours with
> >>>droopy tips like I did.
> >>>
> >>>Tim
> >>>
> >>>--
> >>>Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons |
This is pretty interesting. When I set up my ailerons they were set perfectly even
with my flaps. But in-flight I have noticed that my ailerons are down 1/4"
from my flaps. I have been leary of raising them but sounds like that is what
I should do. If I do this though they will be a little higher than the flaps
on the ground.
Pretty amazing threre is that much of low pressure that is pulling up the flaps
that much.
Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
That's a good observation on the flap stop...it's that huge doubler
that you're talking about I'm sure.
So the biggest point you're making, if I'm not mistaken is, when
you adjust the ailerons up, do a quick doublecheck to make sure
that even when you apply some up pressure on them, the nose of
the aileron doesn't dip down into the slipstream, right? And,
if you adjust them to be perfectly inline, you probably won't have
that problem, but if you try to give them some "reflex" to reduce
drag, you may have that issue.
Did I get it right?
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Randy DeBauw wrote:
>
> I have been watching this post with interest. I just wanted to chime in
> on how I made my adj. It was obvious that in level flight, calm air and
> auto pilot on that my ailerons were down about 1/4" on each side. I
> made the adjustment to them and lined them up per the book. Then I few
> several hours looking at the alignment. I noticed that ailerons in
> flight were down again about 1/16 to and 1/8". Well if you look at the
> flaps and how full up is determined it is by the rear spar doubler. If
> you have the flaps full up and then lift slightly on the outboard
> trailing edge you will get a slight deflection up. This is because the
> flaps on the outboard end (next to the aileron) does not have a stop
> except the rear spar. I lifted the ailerons some more and that is how it
> has been set for the last 80 hours or so.
>
> I had a talk with a Bonanza driver one day and he said that raising the
> ailerons on a Bonanza was an old speed trick. The 10 has a limit to this
> because the forward edge will be deeper in the slip stream the more you
> raise the trailing edge. Randy 40006
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 8:50 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> I had a 7 am patient and they cancelled over the weekend so I am in to
> the
> office early with nothing to do.
>
> JOhn G.
>
>
>> From: Tim Olson
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
>> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:27:39 -0500
>>
>>
>> Don't make too big a deal of it John...it's not worth too
>> much investigation into the linkages and how exactly they
>> deflect and affect eachother. It isn't ONLY in full-aft-stick
>> that this changes, it's just a very slight progressive change
>> in the aileron alignment that affects them both equally with
>> increasing up elevator. I didn't check it with full-forward
>> stick to see if the alignment changes there too.
>>
>> It's not a design defect, a big gotcha, or anything like that.
>> And I seriously doubt the deflection is big enough to be
>> a big safety problem too. It's just an effect of what
>> happens with the elevator/stick/ailerons all connected together.
>>
>> For this alignment, I kept the elevator perfectly neutral
>> as I mentioned in the previous email, and then I aligned the
>> ailerons. Then in cruise I looked out and they looked
>> basically the same. So in cruise, my elevator was also
>> neutral. I assure you, in flight, the RV-10 is very pitch
>> sensitive and I seriously doubt you'll EVER put enough
>> elevator into ANY maneuver with the RV-10 to cause you any
>> heartache with the mis-alignment. It's simply an alignment
>> that you must do properly if you want them not to droop
>> in cruise. Your actual stick movement at both high and low
>> airspeeds is very tiny in the RV-10. I have never had to
>> worry about fat people's legs getting in the way, for
>> instance...you don't need that much elevator even on an
>> extremely twitchy turbulent approach. And I can almost
>> guarantee that you'll never use a HUGE portion of the available
>> up-elevator travel that you have...you'd rip the wings off.
>> You only use that much travel on landing rollout to slow the
>> plane.
>>
>> No, go grab your rivet gun (or dental drill) and do
>> something to take your mind off this. ;)
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> John Gonzalez wrote:
>
>>> Tim,
>>>
>>> So what you are telling us is that when you strapped the control stick
>
>>> nuetral side to side but full back elevator with the seat belt, the
>>> aileron alignment problem was gone. But any other time with the sick
> not
>>> in the full back position, the ailerons droop.
>>>
>>> The best that I can figure it is that the bushing reciever in the
> column
>>> is not parallel to the holes in the fork which hold the aileron
> pushrod.
>>> Or, it could be that the holes in the fork at the end of the tube
> which
>>> allows you to tie the right and left sticks together is not
> perpendicular
>>> to the long axis of the tube itself.
>>>
>>> In other words, then the stick goes full forward to full back, this
>>> translates into aileron movement even when the stick stays nuetral
> side to
>>> side. The bottom of WD 1011 (R) (L) column travel is on a different
> arc
>>> then your stick grip.
>>>
>>> Am I understanding this correctly?
>>>
>>> If so, did you just put the stick in slightly down elevator(Cruise
>>> position) and then adjust the ailerons to their nuetral position.
>>>
>>> So now with this adjustment, when the stick goes full back as in
> directly
>>> before a slow speed stall, what do the ailerons do? A slight droop
> would
>>> be okay only as long as flaps are down, but if no flaps are not
> deployed,
>>> this would be a bad position to enter into a stall because the wing
> tip
>>> would stall first before the in board portion of the wing did.
>>>
>>> I think reflex would be slightly safer.
>>>
>>> JOhn G.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Tim Olson
>>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
>>>> Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:27:40 -0500
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yesterday I was looking for something to do for an hour
>>>> to waste some time, and I decided to look at my ailerons.
>>>> Some old-timers in the RV-10 lifetime may remember Randy had
>>>> problems with his ailerons being rigged low, causing a reduction
>>>> in stop speed. Well, I didn't think mine were originally
>>>> rigged bad. It was strange, as sometimes I would look at the
>>>> ailerons in the hanger and the would be perfectly in-line with
>>>> the wingtips and flaps. Then other times I'd look at them
>>>> in flight and the ailerons would be low on both sides just
>>>> a small amount. I would get done flying and look at them
>>>> and they'd be fine. I didn't know what to make of it. I thought
>>>> maybe it was a lift or loading issue in-flight, but I just
>>>> didn't know for sure. Didn't concern me much because it flew
>>>> great for over 200 hours that way, but it did bug me that when
>>>> I flew with people like Vic, he could notice that kind of thing.
>>>> It's like having your fly down in public. ;)
>>>>
>>>> So anyway, I centered the sticks yesterday and they were OK in the
>>>> hanger with the sticks neutral, but maybe off by a little more than
>>>> 1/8" per side. So I thought I'd adjust them. I strapped the
> seatbelt
>>>> around the stick to keep them centered tight, and lo and behold the
>>>> ailerons were now in-line very nicely.
>>>>
>>>> It was then that I realized that the small amount of travel induced
>>>> in the ailerons with the elevator movement was the entire issue.
>>>> So I used my aileron/rudder gust lock which centers the elevator and
>>>> centered the sticks. Yeehaw, there was what I was looking for!
>>>> The ailerons were now drooped about maybe 1/4" per side or
>>>> so. So it WAS the elevator control, and in-flight the elevators
>>>> are neutral. Time to adjust.
>>>>
>>>> When all was said and done, I had them adjusted to be matched with
>>>> the wingtips and flaps in-flight, and I put about 2.5 hours on.
>>>> It flies the same...not sure about speed as I never really try to
>>>> fly top speed, but it looks nicer in cruise and can't hurt.
>>>>
>>>> So use that tip when you're rigging your ailerons for flight, and
>>>> perhaps you'll not have to go over a year and 200 hours with
>>>> droopy tips like I did.
>>>>
>>>> Tim
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Scott Schmidt
Tronco Energy
Office 801-990-1252
Cell 801-718-1277
Fax 801-990-1256
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons |
No, it's not low pressure from what I can tell. It's just that the
jig, or whatever was used during the initial setup sets them to
even but at a setting where you've got aft stick (up elevator) put in.
I think probably many people (including myself) probably didn't pay
attention to the elevator position during the rigging...that's all.
And we're all ending up 1/4" low. It could just be the jig sets
them that way by accident.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Scott Schmidt wrote:
> This is pretty interesting. When I set up my ailerons they were set
> perfectly even with my flaps. But in-flight I have noticed that my
> ailerons are down 1/4" from my flaps. I have been leary of raising them
> but sounds like that is what I should do. If I do this though they will
> be a little higher than the flaps on the ground.
>
> Pretty amazing threre is that much of low pressure that is pulling up
> the flaps that much.
>
> */Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>/* wrote:
>
>
> That's a good observation on the flap stop...it's that huge doubler
> that you're talking about I'm sure.
>
> So the biggest point you're making, if I'm not mistaken is, when
> you adjust the ailerons up, do a quick doublecheck to make sure
> that even when you apply some up pressure on them, the nose of
> the aileron doesn't dip down into the slipstream, right? And,
> if you adjust them to be perfectly inline, you probably won't have
> that problem, but if you try to give them some "reflex" to reduce
> drag, you may have that issue.
>
> Did I get it right?
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Randy DeBauw wrote:
> >
> > I have been watching this post with interest. I just wanted to
> chime in
> > on how I made my adj. It was obvious that in level flight, calm
> air and
> > auto pilot on that my ailerons were down about 1/4" on each side. I
> > made the adjustment to them and lined them up per the book. Then
> I few
> > several hours looking at the alignment. I noticed that ailerons in
> > flight were down again about 1/16 to and 1/8". Well if you look
> at the
> > flaps and how full up is determined it is by the rear spar
> doubler. If
> > you have the flaps full up and then lift slightly on the outboard
> > trailing edge you will get a slight deflection up. This is
> because the
> > flaps on the outboard end (next to the aileron) does not have a stop
> > except the rear spar. I lifted the ailerons some more and that is
> how it
> > has been set for the last 80 hours or so.
> >
> > I had a talk with a Bonanza driver one day and he said that
> raising the
> > ailerons on a Bonanza was an old speed trick. The 10 has a limit
> to this
> > because the forward edge will be deeper in the slip stream the
> more you
> > raise the trailing edge. Randy 40006
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
> Gonzalez
> > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 8:50 AM
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > I had a 7 am patient and they cancelled over the weekend so I am
> in to
> > the
> > office early with nothing to do.
> >
> > JOhn G.
> >
> >
> >> From: Tim Olson
> >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy
> Ailerons
> >> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:27:39 -0500
> >>
> >>
> >> Don't make too big a deal of it John...it's not worth too
> >> much investigation into the linkages and how exactly they
> >> deflect and affect eachother. It isn't ONLY in full-aft-stick
> >> that this changes, it's just a very slight progressive change
> >> in the aileron alignment that affects them both equally with
> >> increasing up elevator. I didn't check it with full-forward
> >> stick to see if the alignment changes there too.
> >>
> >> It's not a design defect, a big gotcha, or anything like that.
> >> And I seriously doubt the deflection is big enough to be
> >> a big safety problem too. It's just an effect of what
> >> happens with the elevator/stick/ailerons all connected together.
> >>
> >> For this alignment, I kept the elevator perfectly neutral
> >> as I mentioned in the previous email, and then I aligned the
> >> ailerons. Then in cruise I looked out and they looked
> >> basically the same. So in cruise, my elevator was also
> >> neutral. I assure you, in flight, the RV-10 is very pitch
> >> sensitive and I seriously doubt you'll EVER put enough
> >> elevator into ANY maneuver with the RV-10 to cause you any
> >> heartache with the mis-alignment. It's simply an alignment
> >> that you must do properly if you want them not to droop
> >> in cruise. Your actual stick movement at both high and low
> >> airspeeds is very tiny in the RV-10. I have never had to
> >> worry about fat people's legs getting in the way, for
> >> instance...you don't need that much elevator even on an
> >> extremely twitchy turbulent approach. And I can almost
> >> guarantee that you'll never use a HUGE portion of the available
> >> up-elevator travel that you have...you'd rip the wings off.
> >> You only use that much travel on landing rollout to slow the
> >> plane.
> >>
> >> No, go grab your rivet gun (or dental drill) and do
> >> something to take your mind off this. ;)
> >>
> >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> >> do not archive
> >>
> >>
> >> John Gonzalez wrote:
> >
> >>> Tim,
> >>>
> >>> So what you are telling us is that when you strapped the
> control stick
> >
> >>> nuetral side to side but full back elevator with the seat belt,
> the
> >>> aileron alignment problem was gone. But any other time with the
> sick
> > not
> >>> in the full back position, the ailerons droop.
> >>>
> >>> The best that I can figure it is that the bushing reciever in the
> > column
> >>> is not parallel to the holes in the fork which hold the aileron
> > pushrod.
> >>> Or, it could be that the holes in the fork at the end of the tube
> > which
> >>> allows you to tie the right and left sticks together is not
> > perpendicular
> >>> to the long axis of the tube itself.
> >>>
> >>> In other words, then the stick goes full forward to full back,
> this
> >>> translates into aileron movement even when the stick stays nuetral
> > side to
> >>> side. The bottom of WD 1011 (R) (L) column travel is on a different
> > arc
> >>> then your stick grip.
> >>>
> >>> Am I understanding this correctly?
> >>>
> >>> If so, did you just put the stick in slightly down elevator(Cruise
> >>> position) and then adjust the ailerons to their nuetral position.
> >>>
> >>> So now with this adjustment, when the stick goes full back as in
> > directly
> >>> before a slow speed stall, what do the ailerons do? A slight droop
> > would
> >>> be okay only as long as flaps are down, but if no flaps are not
> > deployed,
> >>> this would be a bad position to enter into a stall because the wing
> > tip
> >>> would stall first before the in board portion of the wing did.
> >>>
> >>> I think reflex would be slightly safer.
> >>>
> >>> JOhn G.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> From: Tim Olson
> >>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> >>>> Subject: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
> >>>> Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:27:40 -0500
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Yesterday I was looking for something to do for an hour
> >>>> to waste some time, and I decided to look at my ailerons.
> >>>> Some old-timers in the RV-10 lifetime may remember Randy had
> >>>> problems with his ailerons being rigged low, causing a reduction
> >>>> in stop speed. Well, I didn't think mine were originally
> >>>> rigged bad. It was strange, as sometimes I would look at the
> >>>> ailerons in the hanger and the would be perfectly in-line with
> >>>> the wingtips and flaps. Then other times I'd look at them
> >>>> in flight and the ailerons would be low on both sides just
> >>>> a small amount. I would get done flying and look at them
> >>>> and they'd be fine. I didn't know what to make of it. I thought
> >>>> maybe it was a lift or loading issue in-flight, but I just
> >>>> didn't know for sure. Didn't concern me much because it flew
> >>>> great for over 200 hours that way, but it did bug me that when
> >>>> I flew with people like Vic, he could notice that kind of thing.
> >>>> It's like having your fly down in public. ;)
> >>>>
> >>>> So anyway, I centered the sticks yesterday and they were OK in the
> >>>> hanger with the sticks neutral, but maybe off by a little more
> than
> >>>> 1/8" per side. So I thought I'd adjust them. I strapped the
> > seatbelt
> >>>> around the stick to keep them centered tight, and lo and
> behold the
> >>>> ailerons were now in-line very nicely.
> >>>>
> >>>> It was then that I realized that the small amount of travel
> induced
> >>>> in the ailerons with the elevator movement was the entire issue.
> >>>> So I used my aileron/rudder gust lock which centers the
> elevator and
> >>>> centered the sticks. Yeehaw, there was what I was looking for!
> >>>> The ailerons were now drooped about maybe 1/4" per side or
> >>>> so. So it WAS the elevator control, and in-flight the elevators
> >>>> are neutral. Time to adjust.
> >>>>
> >>>> When all was said and done, I had them adjusted to be matched with
> >>>> the wingtips and flaps in-flight, and I put about 2.5 hours on.
> >>>> It flies the same...not sure about speed as I never really try to
> >>>> fly top speed, but it looks nicer in cruise and can't hurt.
> >>>>
> >>>> So use that tip when you're rigging your ailerons for flight, and
> >>>> perhaps you'll not have to go over a year and 200 hours with
> >>>> droopy tips like I did.
> >>>>
> >>>> Tim
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 14
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| Subject: | RV-10 in southwest Michigan |
I have almost decided to build an RV-10, but am planning on waiting for
Oshkosh to start so that I have a chance to ride in one to make sure I
am comfortable with it. Everything looks and sounds good, but it seems a
little foolish to start such a project without ever having sat in a 10.
Is there any chance anyone will be in Southwest Michigan (C91) in the
next few months. I would love a chance to see a 10 and maybe get started
a few months sooner.
Bill Greenley
(wanting a change from my '56 172)
Message 15
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| Subject: | RV-10 in southwest Michigan |
Why not come to Sun 'n' Fun next month? Van's will be there with their
demonstrators, with less folks in line for a ride.
Jack Phillips
#40610
Finally finishing up the Elevators this week.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Greenley
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 2:17 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 in southwest Michigan
I have almost decided to build an RV-10, but am planning on waiting for
Oshkosh to start so that I have a chance to ride in one to make sure I
am comfortable with it. Everything looks and sounds good, but it seems a
little foolish to start such a project without ever having sat in a 10.
Is there any chance anyone will be in Southwest Michigan (C91) in the
next few months. I would love a chance to see a 10 and maybe get started
a few months sooner.
Bill Greenley
(wanting a change from my '56 172)
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i
n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any
other use of the email by you is prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
Message 16
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| Subject: | RV-10 in southwest Michigan |
Jump in the water is fine. I purchased my first kit in Dec 05, took my wife
up to Vans (disguised as a birthday trip for her to Oregano) in Apr 06 to
see a RV-10 for the first time and got a ride.
Because of lead times, had ordered by wing kit in March...
Rene' Felker
40322
N423CF
Finish or something like it....
801-721-6080
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Greenley
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 12:17 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 in southwest Michigan
I have almost decided to build an RV-10, but am planning on waiting for
Oshkosh to start so that I have a chance to ride in one to make sure I am
comfortable with it. Everything looks and sounds good, but it seems a little
foolish to start such a project without ever having sat in a 10. Is there
any chance anyone will be in Southwest Michigan (C91) in the next few
months. I would love a chance to see a 10 and maybe get started a few months
sooner.
Bill Greenley
(wanting a change from my '56 172)
Message 17
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| Subject: | RV-10 in southwest Michigan |
Bill
I am in NWPA and will be flying in the next month or two. I am going for
transition training at the end of next month, but you are welcome to
come over and sit in the plane and make airplane noises anytime before
she fly's, or go for a ride after I get the 40 flown off. I will warn
you early that it will be the most expensive free ride you ever get. In
addition, I am putting an Eggenfellner Subaru in it, so you will be
spoiled against the Lyco guys! "LOL"
And by the way, I have mine almost finished and have yet to have a ride
in one.....Dick Sipp is also up your way and he is getting close to
being done too.
Dan
N289DT
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Greenley
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 2:17 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 in southwest Michigan
I have almost decided to build an RV-10, but am planning on waiting for
Oshkosh to start so that I have a chance to ride in one to make sure I
am comfortable with it. Everything looks and sounds good, but it seems a
little foolish to start such a project without ever having sat in a 10.
Is there any chance anyone will be in Southwest Michigan (C91) in the
next few months. I would love a chance to see a 10 and maybe get started
a few months sooner.
Bill Greenley
(wanting a change from my '56 172)
Message 18
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| Subject: | Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons |
Anyone talk to Van's about this yet? May be a good topic for a bulletin
from them to the -10 builders.
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
No, it's not low pressure from what I can tell. It's just that the jig, or
whatever was used during the initial setup sets them to even but at a
setting where you've got aft stick (up elevator) put in.
I think probably many people (including myself) probably didn't pay
attention to the elevator position during the rigging...that's all.
And we're all ending up 1/4" low. It could just be the jig sets them that
way by accident.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Scott Schmidt wrote:
> This is pretty interesting. When I set up my ailerons they were set
> perfectly even with my flaps. But in-flight I have noticed that my
> ailerons are down 1/4" from my flaps. I have been leary of raising
> them but sounds like that is what I should do. If I do this though
> they will be a little higher than the flaps on the ground.
>
> Pretty amazing threre is that much of low pressure that is pulling up
> the flaps that much.
>
> */Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>/* wrote:
>
>
> That's a good observation on the flap stop...it's that huge doubler
> that you're talking about I'm sure.
>
> So the biggest point you're making, if I'm not mistaken is, when
> you adjust the ailerons up, do a quick doublecheck to make sure
> that even when you apply some up pressure on them, the nose of
> the aileron doesn't dip down into the slipstream, right? And,
> if you adjust them to be perfectly inline, you probably won't have
> that problem, but if you try to give them some "reflex" to reduce
> drag, you may have that issue.
>
> Did I get it right?
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Randy DeBauw wrote:
> >
> > I have been watching this post with interest. I just wanted to
> chime in
> > on how I made my adj. It was obvious that in level flight, calm
> air and
> > auto pilot on that my ailerons were down about 1/4" on each side. I
> > made the adjustment to them and lined them up per the book. Then
> I few
> > several hours looking at the alignment. I noticed that ailerons in
> > flight were down again about 1/16 to and 1/8". Well if you look
> at the
> > flaps and how full up is determined it is by the rear spar
> doubler. If
> > you have the flaps full up and then lift slightly on the outboard
> > trailing edge you will get a slight deflection up. This is
> because the
> > flaps on the outboard end (next to the aileron) does not have a
stop
> > except the rear spar. I lifted the ailerons some more and that is
> how it
> > has been set for the last 80 hours or so.
> >
> > I had a talk with a Bonanza driver one day and he said that
> raising the
> > ailerons on a Bonanza was an old speed trick. The 10 has a limit
> to this
> > because the forward edge will be deeper in the slip stream the
> more you
> > raise the trailing edge. Randy 40006
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
> Gonzalez
> > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 8:50 AM
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy
Ailerons
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > I had a 7 am patient and they cancelled over the weekend so I am
> in to
> > the
> > office early with nothing to do.
> >
> > JOhn G.
> >
> >
> >> From: Tim Olson
> >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy
> Ailerons
> >> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:27:39 -0500
> >>
> >>
> >> Don't make too big a deal of it John...it's not worth too
> >> much investigation into the linkages and how exactly they
> >> deflect and affect eachother. It isn't ONLY in full-aft-stick
> >> that this changes, it's just a very slight progressive change
> >> in the aileron alignment that affects them both equally with
> >> increasing up elevator. I didn't check it with full-forward
> >> stick to see if the alignment changes there too.
> >>
> >> It's not a design defect, a big gotcha, or anything like that.
> >> And I seriously doubt the deflection is big enough to be
> >> a big safety problem too. It's just an effect of what
> >> happens with the elevator/stick/ailerons all connected together.
> >>
> >> For this alignment, I kept the elevator perfectly neutral
> >> as I mentioned in the previous email, and then I aligned the
> >> ailerons. Then in cruise I looked out and they looked
> >> basically the same. So in cruise, my elevator was also
> >> neutral. I assure you, in flight, the RV-10 is very pitch
> >> sensitive and I seriously doubt you'll EVER put enough
> >> elevator into ANY maneuver with the RV-10 to cause you any
> >> heartache with the mis-alignment. It's simply an alignment
> >> that you must do properly if you want them not to droop
> >> in cruise. Your actual stick movement at both high and low
> >> airspeeds is very tiny in the RV-10. I have never had to
> >> worry about fat people's legs getting in the way, for
> >> instance...you don't need that much elevator even on an
> >> extremely twitchy turbulent approach. And I can almost
> >> guarantee that you'll never use a HUGE portion of the available
> >> up-elevator travel that you have...you'd rip the wings off.
> >> You only use that much travel on landing rollout to slow the
> >> plane.
> >>
> >> No, go grab your rivet gun (or dental drill) and do
> >> something to take your mind off this. ;)
> >>
> >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> >> do not archive
> >>
> >>
> >> John Gonzalez wrote:
> >
> >>> Tim,
> >>>
> >>> So what you are telling us is that when you strapped the
> control stick
> >
> >>> nuetral side to side but full back elevator with the seat belt,
> the
> >>> aileron alignment problem was gone. But any other time with the
> sick
> > not
> >>> in the full back position, the ailerons droop.
> >>>
> >>> The best that I can figure it is that the bushing reciever in the
> > column
> >>> is not parallel to the holes in the fork which hold the aileron
> > pushrod.
> >>> Or, it could be that the holes in the fork at the end of the tube
> > which
> >>> allows you to tie the right and left sticks together is not
> > perpendicular
> >>> to the long axis of the tube itself.
> >>>
> >>> In other words, then the stick goes full forward to full back,
> this
> >>> translates into aileron movement even when the stick stays
nuetral
> > side to
> >>> side. The bottom of WD 1011 (R) (L) column travel is on a
different
> > arc
> >>> then your stick grip.
> >>>
> >>> Am I understanding this correctly?
> >>>
> >>> If so, did you just put the stick in slightly down
elevator(Cruise
> >>> position) and then adjust the ailerons to their nuetral position.
> >>>
> >>> So now with this adjustment, when the stick goes full back as in
> > directly
> >>> before a slow speed stall, what do the ailerons do? A slight
droop
> > would
> >>> be okay only as long as flaps are down, but if no flaps are not
> > deployed,
> >>> this would be a bad position to enter into a stall because the
wing
> > tip
> >>> would stall first before the in board portion of the wing did.
> >>>
> >>> I think reflex would be slightly safer.
> >>>
> >>> JOhn G.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> From: Tim Olson
> >>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> >>>> Subject: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy
Ailerons
> >>>> Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:27:40 -0500
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Yesterday I was looking for something to do for an hour
> >>>> to waste some time, and I decided to look at my ailerons.
> >>>> Some old-timers in the RV-10 lifetime may remember Randy had
> >>>> problems with his ailerons being rigged low, causing a reduction
> >>>> in stop speed. Well, I didn't think mine were originally
> >>>> rigged bad. It was strange, as sometimes I would look at the
> >>>> ailerons in the hanger and the would be perfectly in-line with
> >>>> the wingtips and flaps. Then other times I'd look at them
> >>>> in flight and the ailerons would be low on both sides just
> >>>> a small amount. I would get done flying and look at them
> >>>> and they'd be fine. I didn't know what to make of it. I thought
> >>>> maybe it was a lift or loading issue in-flight, but I just
> >>>> didn't know for sure. Didn't concern me much because it flew
> >>>> great for over 200 hours that way, but it did bug me that when
> >>>> I flew with people like Vic, he could notice that kind of thing.
> >>>> It's like having your fly down in public. ;)
> >>>>
> >>>> So anyway, I centered the sticks yesterday and they were OK in
the
> >>>> hanger with the sticks neutral, but maybe off by a little more
> than
> >>>> 1/8" per side. So I thought I'd adjust them. I strapped the
> > seatbelt
> >>>> around the stick to keep them centered tight, and lo and
> behold the
> >>>> ailerons were now in-line very nicely.
> >>>>
> >>>> It was then that I realized that the small amount of travel
> induced
> >>>> in the ailerons with the elevator movement was the entire issue.
> >>>> So I used my aileron/rudder gust lock which centers the
> elevator and
> >>>> centered the sticks. Yeehaw, there was what I was looking for!
> >>>> The ailerons were now drooped about maybe 1/4" per side or
> >>>> so. So it WAS the elevator control, and in-flight the elevators
> >>>> are neutral. Time to adjust.
> >>>>
> >>>> When all was said and done, I had them adjusted to be matched
with
> >>>> the wingtips and flaps in-flight, and I put about 2.5 hours on.
> >>>> It flies the same...not sure about speed as I never really try
to
> >>>> fly top speed, but it looks nicer in cruise and can't hurt.
> >>>>
> >>>> So use that tip when you're rigging your ailerons for flight,
and
> >>>> perhaps you'll not have to go over a year and 200 hours with
> >>>> droopy tips like I did.
> >>>>
> >>>> Tim
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 19
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| Subject: | Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons |
I talked with Ken Kruger before my adjustments. He pointed out that the
leading edge will be dropping as the trialing edge is lifted. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 12:00 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
Anyone talk to Van's about this yet? May be a good topic for a bulletin
from them to the -10 builders.
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
No, it's not low pressure from what I can tell. It's just that the jig,
or
whatever was used during the initial setup sets them to even but at a
setting where you've got aft stick (up elevator) put in.
I think probably many people (including myself) probably didn't pay
attention to the elevator position during the rigging...that's all.
And we're all ending up 1/4" low. It could just be the jig sets them
that
way by accident.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Scott Schmidt wrote:
> This is pretty interesting. When I set up my ailerons they were set
> perfectly even with my flaps. But in-flight I have noticed that my
> ailerons are down 1/4" from my flaps. I have been leary of raising
> them but sounds like that is what I should do. If I do this though
> they will be a little higher than the flaps on the ground.
>
> Pretty amazing threre is that much of low pressure that is pulling up
> the flaps that much.
>
> */Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>/* wrote:
>
>
> That's a good observation on the flap stop...it's that huge
doubler
> that you're talking about I'm sure.
>
> So the biggest point you're making, if I'm not mistaken is, when
> you adjust the ailerons up, do a quick doublecheck to make sure
> that even when you apply some up pressure on them, the nose of
> the aileron doesn't dip down into the slipstream, right? And,
> if you adjust them to be perfectly inline, you probably won't have
> that problem, but if you try to give them some "reflex" to reduce
> drag, you may have that issue.
>
> Did I get it right?
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Randy DeBauw wrote:
> >
> > I have been watching this post with interest. I just wanted to
> chime in
> > on how I made my adj. It was obvious that in level flight, calm
> air and
> > auto pilot on that my ailerons were down about 1/4" on each
side. I
> > made the adjustment to them and lined them up per the book.
Then
> I few
> > several hours looking at the alignment. I noticed that ailerons
in
> > flight were down again about 1/16 to and 1/8". Well if you look
> at the
> > flaps and how full up is determined it is by the rear spar
> doubler. If
> > you have the flaps full up and then lift slightly on the
outboard
> > trailing edge you will get a slight deflection up. This is
> because the
> > flaps on the outboard end (next to the aileron) does not have a
stop
> > except the rear spar. I lifted the ailerons some more and that
is
> how it
> > has been set for the last 80 hours or so.
> >
> > I had a talk with a Bonanza driver one day and he said that
> raising the
> > ailerons on a Bonanza was an old speed trick. The 10 has a
limit
> to this
> > because the forward edge will be deeper in the slip stream the
> more you
> > raise the trailing edge. Randy 40006
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
> Gonzalez
> > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 8:50 AM
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy
Ailerons
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > I had a 7 am patient and they cancelled over the weekend so I
am
> in to
> > the
> > office early with nothing to do.
> >
> > JOhn G.
> >
> >
> >> From: Tim Olson
> >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy
> Ailerons
> >> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:27:39 -0500
> >>
> >>
> >> Don't make too big a deal of it John...it's not worth too
> >> much investigation into the linkages and how exactly they
> >> deflect and affect eachother. It isn't ONLY in full-aft-stick
> >> that this changes, it's just a very slight progressive change
> >> in the aileron alignment that affects them both equally with
> >> increasing up elevator. I didn't check it with full-forward
> >> stick to see if the alignment changes there too.
> >>
> >> It's not a design defect, a big gotcha, or anything like that.
> >> And I seriously doubt the deflection is big enough to be
> >> a big safety problem too. It's just an effect of what
> >> happens with the elevator/stick/ailerons all connected
together.
> >>
> >> For this alignment, I kept the elevator perfectly neutral
> >> as I mentioned in the previous email, and then I aligned the
> >> ailerons. Then in cruise I looked out and they looked
> >> basically the same. So in cruise, my elevator was also
> >> neutral. I assure you, in flight, the RV-10 is very pitch
> >> sensitive and I seriously doubt you'll EVER put enough
> >> elevator into ANY maneuver with the RV-10 to cause you any
> >> heartache with the mis-alignment. It's simply an alignment
> >> that you must do properly if you want them not to droop
> >> in cruise. Your actual stick movement at both high and low
> >> airspeeds is very tiny in the RV-10. I have never had to
> >> worry about fat people's legs getting in the way, for
> >> instance...you don't need that much elevator even on an
> >> extremely twitchy turbulent approach. And I can almost
> >> guarantee that you'll never use a HUGE portion of the
available
> >> up-elevator travel that you have...you'd rip the wings off.
> >> You only use that much travel on landing rollout to slow the
> >> plane.
> >>
> >> No, go grab your rivet gun (or dental drill) and do
> >> something to take your mind off this. ;)
> >>
> >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> >> do not archive
> >>
> >>
> >> John Gonzalez wrote:
> >
> >>> Tim,
> >>>
> >>> So what you are telling us is that when you strapped the
> control stick
> >
> >>> nuetral side to side but full back elevator with the seat
belt,
> the
> >>> aileron alignment problem was gone. But any other time with
the
> sick
> > not
> >>> in the full back position, the ailerons droop.
> >>>
> >>> The best that I can figure it is that the bushing reciever in
the
> > column
> >>> is not parallel to the holes in the fork which hold the
aileron
> > pushrod.
> >>> Or, it could be that the holes in the fork at the end of the
tube
> > which
> >>> allows you to tie the right and left sticks together is not
> > perpendicular
> >>> to the long axis of the tube itself.
> >>>
> >>> In other words, then the stick goes full forward to full
back,
> this
> >>> translates into aileron movement even when the stick stays
nuetral
> > side to
> >>> side. The bottom of WD 1011 (R) (L) column travel is on a
different
> > arc
> >>> then your stick grip.
> >>>
> >>> Am I understanding this correctly?
> >>>
> >>> If so, did you just put the stick in slightly down
elevator(Cruise
> >>> position) and then adjust the ailerons to their nuetral
position.
> >>>
> >>> So now with this adjustment, when the stick goes full back as
in
> > directly
> >>> before a slow speed stall, what do the ailerons do? A slight
droop
> > would
> >>> be okay only as long as flaps are down, but if no flaps are
not
> > deployed,
> >>> this would be a bad position to enter into a stall because
the
wing
> > tip
> >>> would stall first before the in board portion of the wing
did.
> >>>
> >>> I think reflex would be slightly safer.
> >>>
> >>> JOhn G.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> From: Tim Olson
> >>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> >>>> Subject: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy
Ailerons
> >>>> Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:27:40 -0500
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Yesterday I was looking for something to do for an hour
> >>>> to waste some time, and I decided to look at my ailerons.
> >>>> Some old-timers in the RV-10 lifetime may remember Randy had
> >>>> problems with his ailerons being rigged low, causing a
reduction
> >>>> in stop speed. Well, I didn't think mine were originally
> >>>> rigged bad. It was strange, as sometimes I would look at the
> >>>> ailerons in the hanger and the would be perfectly in-line
with
> >>>> the wingtips and flaps. Then other times I'd look at them
> >>>> in flight and the ailerons would be low on both sides just
> >>>> a small amount. I would get done flying and look at them
> >>>> and they'd be fine. I didn't know what to make of it. I
thought
> >>>> maybe it was a lift or loading issue in-flight, but I just
> >>>> didn't know for sure. Didn't concern me much because it flew
> >>>> great for over 200 hours that way, but it did bug me that
when
> >>>> I flew with people like Vic, he could notice that kind of
thing.
> >>>> It's like having your fly down in public. ;)
> >>>>
> >>>> So anyway, I centered the sticks yesterday and they were OK
in
the
> >>>> hanger with the sticks neutral, but maybe off by a little
more
> than
> >>>> 1/8" per side. So I thought I'd adjust them. I strapped the
> > seatbelt
> >>>> around the stick to keep them centered tight, and lo and
> behold the
> >>>> ailerons were now in-line very nicely.
> >>>>
> >>>> It was then that I realized that the small amount of travel
> induced
> >>>> in the ailerons with the elevator movement was the entire
issue.
> >>>> So I used my aileron/rudder gust lock which centers the
> elevator and
> >>>> centered the sticks. Yeehaw, there was what I was looking
for!
> >>>> The ailerons were now drooped about maybe 1/4" per side or
> >>>> so. So it WAS the elevator control, and in-flight the
elevators
> >>>> are neutral. Time to adjust.
> >>>>
> >>>> When all was said and done, I had them adjusted to be
matched
with
> >>>> the wingtips and flaps in-flight, and I put about 2.5 hours
on.
> >>>> It flies the same...not sure about speed as I never really
try
to
> >>>> fly top speed, but it looks nicer in cruise and can't hurt.
> >>>>
> >>>> So use that tip when you're rigging your ailerons for
flight,
and
> >>>> perhaps you'll not have to go over a year and 200 hours with
> >>>> droopy tips like I did.
> >>>>
> >>>> Tim
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons |
Has anyone tried the 3M tape that Art Matheson sells to cover the
lower/upper gaps? I can't remember the tape number but a company in Chicago sell
it by
the roll, and as experimentals one can try it?
do not archive
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Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons |
I think it's way too minor for a service bulletin.
I went 200+ hours before I fixed it. It would be
nice to have perhaps better notes in the plans about
aligning it, but we all know how well those ideas
are received. It's not really a safety issue either.
I think the best we can hope for is that eventually we
can educate people by these types of forums. For the
people who don't participate online....well....maybe
we'll recognize their planes by their ailerons.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John Jessen wrote:
>
> Anyone talk to Van's about this yet? May be a good topic for a bulletin
> from them to the -10 builders.
>
> do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 11:04 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
>
>
> No, it's not low pressure from what I can tell. It's just that the jig, or
> whatever was used during the initial setup sets them to even but at a
> setting where you've got aft stick (up elevator) put in.
> I think probably many people (including myself) probably didn't pay
> attention to the elevator position during the rigging...that's all.
> And we're all ending up 1/4" low. It could just be the jig sets them that
> way by accident.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Scott Schmidt wrote:
>> This is pretty interesting. When I set up my ailerons they were set
>> perfectly even with my flaps. But in-flight I have noticed that my
>> ailerons are down 1/4" from my flaps. I have been leary of raising
>> them but sounds like that is what I should do. If I do this though
>> they will be a little higher than the flaps on the ground.
>>
>> Pretty amazing threre is that much of low pressure that is pulling up
>> the flaps that much.
>>
>> */Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>/* wrote:
>>
>>
>> That's a good observation on the flap stop...it's that huge doubler
>> that you're talking about I'm sure.
>>
>> So the biggest point you're making, if I'm not mistaken is, when
>> you adjust the ailerons up, do a quick doublecheck to make sure
>> that even when you apply some up pressure on them, the nose of
>> the aileron doesn't dip down into the slipstream, right? And,
>> if you adjust them to be perfectly inline, you probably won't have
>> that problem, but if you try to give them some "reflex" to reduce
>> drag, you may have that issue.
>>
>> Did I get it right?
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> Randy DeBauw wrote:
>> >
>> > I have been watching this post with interest. I just wanted to
>> chime in
>> > on how I made my adj. It was obvious that in level flight, calm
>> air and
>> > auto pilot on that my ailerons were down about 1/4" on each side. I
>> > made the adjustment to them and lined them up per the book. Then
>> I few
>> > several hours looking at the alignment. I noticed that ailerons in
>> > flight were down again about 1/16 to and 1/8". Well if you look
>> at the
>> > flaps and how full up is determined it is by the rear spar
>> doubler. If
>> > you have the flaps full up and then lift slightly on the outboard
>> > trailing edge you will get a slight deflection up. This is
>> because the
>> > flaps on the outboard end (next to the aileron) does not have a
> stop
>> > except the rear spar. I lifted the ailerons some more and that is
>> how it
>> > has been set for the last 80 hours or so.
>> >
>> > I had a talk with a Bonanza driver one day and he said that
>> raising the
>> > ailerons on a Bonanza was an old speed trick. The 10 has a limit
>> to this
>> > because the forward edge will be deeper in the slip stream the
>> more you
>> > raise the trailing edge. Randy 40006
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
>> Gonzalez
>> > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 8:50 AM
>> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy
> Ailerons
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > I had a 7 am patient and they cancelled over the weekend so I am
>> in to
>> > the
>> > office early with nothing to do.
>> >
>> > JOhn G.
>> >
>> >
>> >> From: Tim Olson
>> >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy
>> Ailerons
>> >> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:27:39 -0500
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Don't make too big a deal of it John...it's not worth too
>> >> much investigation into the linkages and how exactly they
>> >> deflect and affect eachother. It isn't ONLY in full-aft-stick
>> >> that this changes, it's just a very slight progressive change
>> >> in the aileron alignment that affects them both equally with
>> >> increasing up elevator. I didn't check it with full-forward
>> >> stick to see if the alignment changes there too.
>> >>
>> >> It's not a design defect, a big gotcha, or anything like that.
>> >> And I seriously doubt the deflection is big enough to be
>> >> a big safety problem too. It's just an effect of what
>> >> happens with the elevator/stick/ailerons all connected together.
>> >>
>> >> For this alignment, I kept the elevator perfectly neutral
>> >> as I mentioned in the previous email, and then I aligned the
>> >> ailerons. Then in cruise I looked out and they looked
>> >> basically the same. So in cruise, my elevator was also
>> >> neutral. I assure you, in flight, the RV-10 is very pitch
>> >> sensitive and I seriously doubt you'll EVER put enough
>> >> elevator into ANY maneuver with the RV-10 to cause you any
>> >> heartache with the mis-alignment. It's simply an alignment
>> >> that you must do properly if you want them not to droop
>> >> in cruise. Your actual stick movement at both high and low
>> >> airspeeds is very tiny in the RV-10. I have never had to
>> >> worry about fat people's legs getting in the way, for
>> >> instance...you don't need that much elevator even on an
>> >> extremely twitchy turbulent approach. And I can almost
>> >> guarantee that you'll never use a HUGE portion of the available
>> >> up-elevator travel that you have...you'd rip the wings off.
>> >> You only use that much travel on landing rollout to slow the
>> >> plane.
>> >>
>> >> No, go grab your rivet gun (or dental drill) and do
>> >> something to take your mind off this. ;)
>> >>
>> >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>> >> do not archive
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> John Gonzalez wrote:
>> >
>> >>> Tim,
>> >>>
>> >>> So what you are telling us is that when you strapped the
>> control stick
>> >
>> >>> nuetral side to side but full back elevator with the seat belt,
>> the
>> >>> aileron alignment problem was gone. But any other time with the
>> sick
>> > not
>> >>> in the full back position, the ailerons droop.
>> >>>
>> >>> The best that I can figure it is that the bushing reciever in the
>> > column
>> >>> is not parallel to the holes in the fork which hold the aileron
>> > pushrod.
>> >>> Or, it could be that the holes in the fork at the end of the tube
>> > which
>> >>> allows you to tie the right and left sticks together is not
>> > perpendicular
>> >>> to the long axis of the tube itself.
>> >>>
>> >>> In other words, then the stick goes full forward to full back,
>> this
>> >>> translates into aileron movement even when the stick stays
> nuetral
>> > side to
>> >>> side. The bottom of WD 1011 (R) (L) column travel is on a
> different
>> > arc
>> >>> then your stick grip.
>> >>>
>> >>> Am I understanding this correctly?
>> >>>
>> >>> If so, did you just put the stick in slightly down
> elevator(Cruise
>> >>> position) and then adjust the ailerons to their nuetral position.
>> >>>
>> >>> So now with this adjustment, when the stick goes full back as in
>> > directly
>> >>> before a slow speed stall, what do the ailerons do? A slight
> droop
>> > would
>> >>> be okay only as long as flaps are down, but if no flaps are not
>> > deployed,
>> >>> this would be a bad position to enter into a stall because the
> wing
>> > tip
>> >>> would stall first before the in board portion of the wing did.
>> >>>
>> >>> I think reflex would be slightly safer.
>> >>>
>> >>> JOhn G.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> From: Tim Olson
>> >>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> >>>> Subject: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy
> Ailerons
>> >>>> Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:27:40 -0500
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Yesterday I was looking for something to do for an hour
>> >>>> to waste some time, and I decided to look at my ailerons.
>> >>>> Some old-timers in the RV-10 lifetime may remember Randy had
>> >>>> problems with his ailerons being rigged low, causing a reduction
>> >>>> in stop speed. Well, I didn't think mine were originally
>> >>>> rigged bad. It was strange, as sometimes I would look at the
>> >>>> ailerons in the hanger and the would be perfectly in-line with
>> >>>> the wingtips and flaps. Then other times I'd look at them
>> >>>> in flight and the ailerons would be low on both sides just
>> >>>> a small amount. I would get done flying and look at them
>> >>>> and they'd be fine. I didn't know what to make of it. I thought
>> >>>> maybe it was a lift or loading issue in-flight, but I just
>> >>>> didn't know for sure. Didn't concern me much because it flew
>> >>>> great for over 200 hours that way, but it did bug me that when
>> >>>> I flew with people like Vic, he could notice that kind of thing.
>> >>>> It's like having your fly down in public. ;)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> So anyway, I centered the sticks yesterday and they were OK in
> the
>> >>>> hanger with the sticks neutral, but maybe off by a little more
>> than
>> >>>> 1/8" per side. So I thought I'd adjust them. I strapped the
>> > seatbelt
>> >>>> around the stick to keep them centered tight, and lo and
>> behold the
>> >>>> ailerons were now in-line very nicely.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> It was then that I realized that the small amount of travel
>> induced
>> >>>> in the ailerons with the elevator movement was the entire issue.
>> >>>> So I used my aileron/rudder gust lock which centers the
>> elevator and
>> >>>> centered the sticks. Yeehaw, there was what I was looking for!
>> >>>> The ailerons were now drooped about maybe 1/4" per side or
>> >>>> so. So it WAS the elevator control, and in-flight the elevators
>> >>>> are neutral. Time to adjust.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> When all was said and done, I had them adjusted to be matched
> with
>> >>>> the wingtips and flaps in-flight, and I put about 2.5 hours on.
>> >>>> It flies the same...not sure about speed as I never really try
> to
>> >>>> fly top speed, but it looks nicer in cruise and can't hurt.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> So use that tip when you're rigging your ailerons for flight,
> and
>> >>>> perhaps you'll not have to go over a year and 200 hours with
>> >>>> droopy tips like I did.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Tim
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | RV-10 in southwest Michigan |
I wish I could, but I teach part time and the local school system has
their priorities mixed up and did not schedule Spring break to coincide
with Sun 'n' Fun. :(
Bill Greenley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillips,
Jack
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 2:34 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 in southwest Michigan
Why not come to Sun 'n' Fun next month? Van's will be there with their
demonstrators, with less folks in line for a ride.
Jack Phillips
#40610
Finally finishing up the Elevators this week.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Greenley
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 2:17 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 in southwest Michigan
I have almost decided to build an RV-10, but am planning on waiting for
Oshkosh to start so that I have a chance to ride in one to make sure I
am comfortable with it. Everything looks and sounds good, but it seems a
little foolish to start such a project without ever having sat in a 10.
Is there any chance anyone will be in Southwest Michigan (C91) in the
next few months. I would love a chance to see a 10 and maybe get started
a few months sooner.
Bill Greenley
(wanting a change from my '56 172)
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
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Message 23
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| Subject: | Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons |
Hey all -
All this talk about ailerons has got me wondering if someone could
answer my previously (unanswered) question about how much downward throw
the ailerons have? I don't want anything very scientific like degrees
or anything. Just maybe a measurement from the trailing edge of the
aileron at full down deflection to the trailing edge of the flap with
the flap in the full up position. I'm still nervous about my rubbing
issue, and I'm nowhere near mounting the wings so that I can see if it
really is a problem. Could someone help me out?
Thanks!
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
I think it's way too minor for a service bulletin.
I went 200+ hours before I fixed it. It would be
nice to have perhaps better notes in the plans about
aligning it, but we all know how well those ideas
are received. It's not really a safety issue either.
I think the best we can hope for is that eventually we
can educate people by these types of forums. For the
people who don't participate online....well....maybe
we'll recognize their planes by their ailerons.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John Jessen wrote:
>
> Anyone talk to Van's about this yet? May be a good topic for a
bulletin
> from them to the -10 builders.
>
> do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 11:04 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
>
>
> No, it's not low pressure from what I can tell. It's just that the
jig, or
> whatever was used during the initial setup sets them to even but at a
> setting where you've got aft stick (up elevator) put in.
> I think probably many people (including myself) probably didn't pay
> attention to the elevator position during the rigging...that's all.
> And we're all ending up 1/4" low. It could just be the jig sets them
that
> way by accident.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Scott Schmidt wrote:
>> This is pretty interesting. When I set up my ailerons they were set
>> perfectly even with my flaps. But in-flight I have noticed that my
>> ailerons are down 1/4" from my flaps. I have been leary of raising
>> them but sounds like that is what I should do. If I do this though
>> they will be a little higher than the flaps on the ground.
>>
>> Pretty amazing threre is that much of low pressure that is pulling up
>> the flaps that much.
>>
>> */Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>/* wrote:
>>
>>
>> That's a good observation on the flap stop...it's that huge
doubler
>> that you're talking about I'm sure.
>>
>> So the biggest point you're making, if I'm not mistaken is, when
>> you adjust the ailerons up, do a quick doublecheck to make sure
>> that even when you apply some up pressure on them, the nose of
>> the aileron doesn't dip down into the slipstream, right? And,
>> if you adjust them to be perfectly inline, you probably won't
have
>> that problem, but if you try to give them some "reflex" to reduce
>> drag, you may have that issue.
>>
>> Did I get it right?
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> Randy DeBauw wrote:
>> >
>> > I have been watching this post with interest. I just wanted to
>> chime in
>> > on how I made my adj. It was obvious that in level flight,
calm
>> air and
>> > auto pilot on that my ailerons were down about 1/4" on each
side. I
>> > made the adjustment to them and lined them up per the book.
Then
>> I few
>> > several hours looking at the alignment. I noticed that
ailerons in
>> > flight were down again about 1/16 to and 1/8". Well if you
look
>> at the
>> > flaps and how full up is determined it is by the rear spar
>> doubler. If
>> > you have the flaps full up and then lift slightly on the
outboard
>> > trailing edge you will get a slight deflection up. This is
>> because the
>> > flaps on the outboard end (next to the aileron) does not have
a
> stop
>> > except the rear spar. I lifted the ailerons some more and that
is
>> how it
>> > has been set for the last 80 hours or so.
>> >
>> > I had a talk with a Bonanza driver one day and he said that
>> raising the
>> > ailerons on a Bonanza was an old speed trick. The 10 has a
limit
>> to this
>> > because the forward edge will be deeper in the slip stream the
>> more you
>> > raise the trailing edge. Randy 40006
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
John
>> Gonzalez
>> > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 8:50 AM
>> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy
> Ailerons
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > I had a 7 am patient and they cancelled over the weekend so I
am
>> in to
>> > the
>> > office early with nothing to do.
>> >
>> > JOhn G.
>> >
>> >
>> >> From: Tim Olson
>> >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy
>> Ailerons
>> >> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:27:39 -0500
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Don't make too big a deal of it John...it's not worth too
>> >> much investigation into the linkages and how exactly they
>> >> deflect and affect eachother. It isn't ONLY in full-aft-stick
>> >> that this changes, it's just a very slight progressive change
>> >> in the aileron alignment that affects them both equally with
>> >> increasing up elevator. I didn't check it with full-forward
>> >> stick to see if the alignment changes there too.
>> >>
>> >> It's not a design defect, a big gotcha, or anything like
that.
>> >> And I seriously doubt the deflection is big enough to be
>> >> a big safety problem too. It's just an effect of what
>> >> happens with the elevator/stick/ailerons all connected
together.
>> >>
>> >> For this alignment, I kept the elevator perfectly neutral
>> >> as I mentioned in the previous email, and then I aligned the
>> >> ailerons. Then in cruise I looked out and they looked
>> >> basically the same. So in cruise, my elevator was also
>> >> neutral. I assure you, in flight, the RV-10 is very pitch
>> >> sensitive and I seriously doubt you'll EVER put enough
>> >> elevator into ANY maneuver with the RV-10 to cause you any
>> >> heartache with the mis-alignment. It's simply an alignment
>> >> that you must do properly if you want them not to droop
>> >> in cruise. Your actual stick movement at both high and low
>> >> airspeeds is very tiny in the RV-10. I have never had to
>> >> worry about fat people's legs getting in the way, for
>> >> instance...you don't need that much elevator even on an
>> >> extremely twitchy turbulent approach. And I can almost
>> >> guarantee that you'll never use a HUGE portion of the
available
>> >> up-elevator travel that you have...you'd rip the wings off.
>> >> You only use that much travel on landing rollout to slow the
>> >> plane.
>> >>
>> >> No, go grab your rivet gun (or dental drill) and do
>> >> something to take your mind off this. ;)
>> >>
>> >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>> >> do not archive
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> John Gonzalez wrote:
>> >
>> >>> Tim,
>> >>>
>> >>> So what you are telling us is that when you strapped the
>> control stick
>> >
>> >>> nuetral side to side but full back elevator with the seat
belt,
>> the
>> >>> aileron alignment problem was gone. But any other time with
the
>> sick
>> > not
>> >>> in the full back position, the ailerons droop.
>> >>>
>> >>> The best that I can figure it is that the bushing reciever
in the
>> > column
>> >>> is not parallel to the holes in the fork which hold the
aileron
>> > pushrod.
>> >>> Or, it could be that the holes in the fork at the end of the
tube
>> > which
>> >>> allows you to tie the right and left sticks together is not
>> > perpendicular
>> >>> to the long axis of the tube itself.
>> >>>
>> >>> In other words, then the stick goes full forward to full
back,
>> this
>> >>> translates into aileron movement even when the stick stays
> nuetral
>> > side to
>> >>> side. The bottom of WD 1011 (R) (L) column travel is on a
> different
>> > arc
>> >>> then your stick grip.
>> >>>
>> >>> Am I understanding this correctly?
>> >>>
>> >>> If so, did you just put the stick in slightly down
> elevator(Cruise
>> >>> position) and then adjust the ailerons to their nuetral
position.
>> >>>
>> >>> So now with this adjustment, when the stick goes full back
as in
>> > directly
>> >>> before a slow speed stall, what do the ailerons do? A slight
> droop
>> > would
>> >>> be okay only as long as flaps are down, but if no flaps are
not
>> > deployed,
>> >>> this would be a bad position to enter into a stall because
the
> wing
>> > tip
>> >>> would stall first before the in board portion of the wing
did.
>> >>>
>> >>> I think reflex would be slightly safer.
>> >>>
>> >>> JOhn G.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> From: Tim Olson
>> >>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> >>>> Subject: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy
> Ailerons
>> >>>> Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:27:40 -0500
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Yesterday I was looking for something to do for an hour
>> >>>> to waste some time, and I decided to look at my ailerons.
>> >>>> Some old-timers in the RV-10 lifetime may remember Randy
had
>> >>>> problems with his ailerons being rigged low, causing a
reduction
>> >>>> in stop speed. Well, I didn't think mine were originally
>> >>>> rigged bad. It was strange, as sometimes I would look at
the
>> >>>> ailerons in the hanger and the would be perfectly in-line
with
>> >>>> the wingtips and flaps. Then other times I'd look at them
>> >>>> in flight and the ailerons would be low on both sides just
>> >>>> a small amount. I would get done flying and look at them
>> >>>> and they'd be fine. I didn't know what to make of it. I
thought
>> >>>> maybe it was a lift or loading issue in-flight, but I just
>> >>>> didn't know for sure. Didn't concern me much because it
flew
>> >>>> great for over 200 hours that way, but it did bug me that
when
>> >>>> I flew with people like Vic, he could notice that kind of
thing.
>> >>>> It's like having your fly down in public. ;)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> So anyway, I centered the sticks yesterday and they were OK
in
> the
>> >>>> hanger with the sticks neutral, but maybe off by a little
more
>> than
>> >>>> 1/8" per side. So I thought I'd adjust them. I strapped the
>> > seatbelt
>> >>>> around the stick to keep them centered tight, and lo and
>> behold the
>> >>>> ailerons were now in-line very nicely.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> It was then that I realized that the small amount of travel
>> induced
>> >>>> in the ailerons with the elevator movement was the entire
issue.
>> >>>> So I used my aileron/rudder gust lock which centers the
>> elevator and
>> >>>> centered the sticks. Yeehaw, there was what I was looking
for!
>> >>>> The ailerons were now drooped about maybe 1/4" per side or
>> >>>> so. So it WAS the elevator control, and in-flight the
elevators
>> >>>> are neutral. Time to adjust.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> When all was said and done, I had them adjusted to be
matched
> with
>> >>>> the wingtips and flaps in-flight, and I put about 2.5 hours
on.
>> >>>> It flies the same...not sure about speed as I never really
try
> to
>> >>>> fly top speed, but it looks nicer in cruise and can't hurt.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> So use that tip when you're rigging your ailerons for
flight,
> and
>> >>>> perhaps you'll not have to go over a year and 200 hours
with
>> >>>> droopy tips like I did.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Tim
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons |
Not a service bulletin, but something that addresses the obvious rigging
issue. Best to have that change come out of Vans so it hits everyone.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
I think it's way too minor for a service bulletin.
I went 200+ hours before I fixed it. It would be nice to have perhaps
better notes in the plans about aligning it, but we all know how well those
ideas are received. It's not really a safety issue either.
I think the best we can hope for is that eventually we can educate people by
these types of forums. For the people who don't participate
online....well....maybe we'll recognize their planes by their ailerons.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John Jessen wrote:
>
> Anyone talk to Van's about this yet? May be a good topic for a
> bulletin from them to the -10 builders.
>
> do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 11:04 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
>
>
> No, it's not low pressure from what I can tell. It's just that the
> jig, or whatever was used during the initial setup sets them to even
> but at a setting where you've got aft stick (up elevator) put in.
> I think probably many people (including myself) probably didn't pay
> attention to the elevator position during the rigging...that's all.
> And we're all ending up 1/4" low. It could just be the jig sets them
> that way by accident.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Scott Schmidt wrote:
>> This is pretty interesting. When I set up my ailerons they were set
>> perfectly even with my flaps. But in-flight I have noticed that my
>> ailerons are down 1/4" from my flaps. I have been leary of raising
>> them but sounds like that is what I should do. If I do this though
>> they will be a little higher than the flaps on the ground.
>>
>> Pretty amazing threre is that much of low pressure that is pulling up
>> the flaps that much.
>>
>> */Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>/* wrote:
>>
>>
>> That's a good observation on the flap stop...it's that huge doubler
>> that you're talking about I'm sure.
>>
>> So the biggest point you're making, if I'm not mistaken is, when
>> you adjust the ailerons up, do a quick doublecheck to make sure
>> that even when you apply some up pressure on them, the nose of
>> the aileron doesn't dip down into the slipstream, right? And,
>> if you adjust them to be perfectly inline, you probably won't have
>> that problem, but if you try to give them some "reflex" to reduce
>> drag, you may have that issue.
>>
>> Did I get it right?
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> Randy DeBauw wrote:
>> >
>> > I have been watching this post with interest. I just wanted to
>> chime in
>> > on how I made my adj. It was obvious that in level flight, calm
>> air and
>> > auto pilot on that my ailerons were down about 1/4" on each side.
I
>> > made the adjustment to them and lined them up per the book. Then
>> I few
>> > several hours looking at the alignment. I noticed that ailerons in
>> > flight were down again about 1/16 to and 1/8". Well if you look
>> at the
>> > flaps and how full up is determined it is by the rear spar
>> doubler. If
>> > you have the flaps full up and then lift slightly on the outboard
>> > trailing edge you will get a slight deflection up. This is
>> because the
>> > flaps on the outboard end (next to the aileron) does not have
>> a
> stop
>> > except the rear spar. I lifted the ailerons some more and that is
>> how it
>> > has been set for the last 80 hours or so.
>> >
>> > I had a talk with a Bonanza driver one day and he said that
>> raising the
>> > ailerons on a Bonanza was an old speed trick. The 10 has a limit
>> to this
>> > because the forward edge will be deeper in the slip stream the
>> more you
>> > raise the trailing edge. Randy 40006
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
>> Gonzalez
>> > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 8:50 AM
>> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy
> Ailerons
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > I had a 7 am patient and they cancelled over the weekend so I am
>> in to
>> > the
>> > office early with nothing to do.
>> >
>> > JOhn G.
>> >
>> >
>> >> From: Tim Olson
>> >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy
>> Ailerons
>> >> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:27:39 -0500
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Don't make too big a deal of it John...it's not worth too
>> >> much investigation into the linkages and how exactly they
>> >> deflect and affect eachother. It isn't ONLY in full-aft-stick
>> >> that this changes, it's just a very slight progressive change
>> >> in the aileron alignment that affects them both equally with
>> >> increasing up elevator. I didn't check it with full-forward
>> >> stick to see if the alignment changes there too.
>> >>
>> >> It's not a design defect, a big gotcha, or anything like that.
>> >> And I seriously doubt the deflection is big enough to be
>> >> a big safety problem too. It's just an effect of what
>> >> happens with the elevator/stick/ailerons all connected together.
>> >>
>> >> For this alignment, I kept the elevator perfectly neutral
>> >> as I mentioned in the previous email, and then I aligned the
>> >> ailerons. Then in cruise I looked out and they looked
>> >> basically the same. So in cruise, my elevator was also
>> >> neutral. I assure you, in flight, the RV-10 is very pitch
>> >> sensitive and I seriously doubt you'll EVER put enough
>> >> elevator into ANY maneuver with the RV-10 to cause you any
>> >> heartache with the mis-alignment. It's simply an alignment
>> >> that you must do properly if you want them not to droop
>> >> in cruise. Your actual stick movement at both high and low
>> >> airspeeds is very tiny in the RV-10. I have never had to
>> >> worry about fat people's legs getting in the way, for
>> >> instance...you don't need that much elevator even on an
>> >> extremely twitchy turbulent approach. And I can almost
>> >> guarantee that you'll never use a HUGE portion of the available
>> >> up-elevator travel that you have...you'd rip the wings off.
>> >> You only use that much travel on landing rollout to slow the
>> >> plane.
>> >>
>> >> No, go grab your rivet gun (or dental drill) and do
>> >> something to take your mind off this. ;)
>> >>
>> >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>> >> do not archive
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> John Gonzalez wrote:
>> >
>> >>> Tim,
>> >>>
>> >>> So what you are telling us is that when you strapped the
>> control stick
>> >
>> >>> nuetral side to side but full back elevator with the seat belt,
>> the
>> >>> aileron alignment problem was gone. But any other time with the
>> sick
>> > not
>> >>> in the full back position, the ailerons droop.
>> >>>
>> >>> The best that I can figure it is that the bushing reciever in
the
>> > column
>> >>> is not parallel to the holes in the fork which hold the aileron
>> > pushrod.
>> >>> Or, it could be that the holes in the fork at the end of the
tube
>> > which
>> >>> allows you to tie the right and left sticks together is not
>> > perpendicular
>> >>> to the long axis of the tube itself.
>> >>>
>> >>> In other words, then the stick goes full forward to full back,
>> this
>> >>> translates into aileron movement even when the stick stays
> nuetral
>> > side to
>> >>> side. The bottom of WD 1011 (R) (L) column travel is on a
> different
>> > arc
>> >>> then your stick grip.
>> >>>
>> >>> Am I understanding this correctly?
>> >>>
>> >>> If so, did you just put the stick in slightly down
> elevator(Cruise
>> >>> position) and then adjust the ailerons to their nuetral
position.
>> >>>
>> >>> So now with this adjustment, when the stick goes full back as in
>> > directly
>> >>> before a slow speed stall, what do the ailerons do? A slight
> droop
>> > would
>> >>> be okay only as long as flaps are down, but if no flaps are not
>> > deployed,
>> >>> this would be a bad position to enter into a stall because
>> the
> wing
>> > tip
>> >>> would stall first before the in board portion of the wing did.
>> >>>
>> >>> I think reflex would be slightly safer.
>> >>>
>> >>> JOhn G.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> From: Tim Olson
>> >>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> >>>> Subject: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy
> Ailerons
>> >>>> Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:27:40 -0500
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Yesterday I was looking for something to do for an hour
>> >>>> to waste some time, and I decided to look at my ailerons.
>> >>>> Some old-timers in the RV-10 lifetime may remember Randy had
>> >>>> problems with his ailerons being rigged low, causing a
reduction
>> >>>> in stop speed. Well, I didn't think mine were originally
>> >>>> rigged bad. It was strange, as sometimes I would look at the
>> >>>> ailerons in the hanger and the would be perfectly in-line with
>> >>>> the wingtips and flaps. Then other times I'd look at them
>> >>>> in flight and the ailerons would be low on both sides just
>> >>>> a small amount. I would get done flying and look at them
>> >>>> and they'd be fine. I didn't know what to make of it. I thought
>> >>>> maybe it was a lift or loading issue in-flight, but I just
>> >>>> didn't know for sure. Didn't concern me much because it flew
>> >>>> great for over 200 hours that way, but it did bug me that when
>> >>>> I flew with people like Vic, he could notice that kind of
thing.
>> >>>> It's like having your fly down in public. ;)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> So anyway, I centered the sticks yesterday and they were OK
>> in
> the
>> >>>> hanger with the sticks neutral, but maybe off by a little more
>> than
>> >>>> 1/8" per side. So I thought I'd adjust them. I strapped the
>> > seatbelt
>> >>>> around the stick to keep them centered tight, and lo and
>> behold the
>> >>>> ailerons were now in-line very nicely.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> It was then that I realized that the small amount of travel
>> induced
>> >>>> in the ailerons with the elevator movement was the entire
issue.
>> >>>> So I used my aileron/rudder gust lock which centers the
>> elevator and
>> >>>> centered the sticks. Yeehaw, there was what I was looking for!
>> >>>> The ailerons were now drooped about maybe 1/4" per side or
>> >>>> so. So it WAS the elevator control, and in-flight the elevators
>> >>>> are neutral. Time to adjust.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> When all was said and done, I had them adjusted to be
>> matched
> with
>> >>>> the wingtips and flaps in-flight, and I put about 2.5 hours on.
>> >>>> It flies the same...not sure about speed as I never really
>> try
> to
>> >>>> fly top speed, but it looks nicer in cruise and can't hurt.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> So use that tip when you're rigging your ailerons for
>> flight,
> and
>> >>>> perhaps you'll not have to go over a year and 200 hours with
>> >>>> droopy tips like I did.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Tim
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
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|
| Subject: | Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons |
Since I just finished rigging my controls in preparation for my first
flight I just had to go to the airport to check. What I found was my
ailerons were perfectly aliened with the elevator in the neutral
position and when going to full up elevator they raised approx 3/16" and
at full down elevator they also raised the same amount. Interesting. I
agree with Tim that is not a big cause for concern. If you rig with the
elevator at neutral you will be good to go.
Tim, do you have an accumulation of performance stats for the 10? If so
were can I find it?
Tom Deutsch, #40545
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Johnston
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 3:42 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
<CJohnston@popsound.com>
Hey all -
All this talk about ailerons has got me wondering if someone could
answer my previously (unanswered) question about how much downward throw
the ailerons have? I don't want anything very scientific like degrees
or anything. Just maybe a measurement from the trailing edge of the
aileron at full down deflection to the trailing edge of the flap with
the flap in the full up position. I'm still nervous about my rubbing
issue, and I'm nowhere near mounting the wings so that I can see if it
really is a problem. Could someone help me out?
Thanks!
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
I think it's way too minor for a service bulletin.
I went 200+ hours before I fixed it. It would be
nice to have perhaps better notes in the plans about
aligning it, but we all know how well those ideas
are received. It's not really a safety issue either.
I think the best we can hope for is that eventually we
can educate people by these types of forums. For the
people who don't participate online....well....maybe
we'll recognize their planes by their ailerons.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John Jessen wrote:
>
> Anyone talk to Van's about this yet? May be a good topic for a
bulletin
> from them to the -10 builders.
>
> do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 11:04 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
>
>
> No, it's not low pressure from what I can tell. It's just that the
jig, or
> whatever was used during the initial setup sets them to even but at a
> setting where you've got aft stick (up elevator) put in.
> I think probably many people (including myself) probably didn't pay
> attention to the elevator position during the rigging...that's all.
> And we're all ending up 1/4" low. It could just be the jig sets them
that
> way by accident.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Scott Schmidt wrote:
>> This is pretty interesting. When I set up my ailerons they were set
>> perfectly even with my flaps. But in-flight I have noticed that my
>> ailerons are down 1/4" from my flaps. I have been leary of raising
>> them but sounds like that is what I should do. If I do this though
>> they will be a little higher than the flaps on the ground.
>>
>> Pretty amazing threre is that much of low pressure that is pulling up
>> the flaps that much.
>>
>> */Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>/* wrote:
>>
>>
>> That's a good observation on the flap stop...it's that huge
doubler
>> that you're talking about I'm sure.
>>
>> So the biggest point you're making, if I'm not mistaken is, when
>> you adjust the ailerons up, do a quick doublecheck to make sure
>> that even when you apply some up pressure on them, the nose of
>> the aileron doesn't dip down into the slipstream, right? And,
>> if you adjust them to be perfectly inline, you probably won't
have
>> that problem, but if you try to give them some "reflex" to reduce
>> drag, you may have that issue.
>>
>> Did I get it right?
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> Randy DeBauw wrote:
>> >
>> > I have been watching this post with interest. I just wanted to
>> chime in
>> > on how I made my adj. It was obvious that in level flight,
calm
>> air and
>> > auto pilot on that my ailerons were down about 1/4" on each
side. I
>> > made the adjustment to them and lined them up per the book.
Then
>> I few
>> > several hours looking at the alignment. I noticed that
ailerons in
>> > flight were down again about 1/16 to and 1/8". Well if you
look
>> at the
>> > flaps and how full up is determined it is by the rear spar
>> doubler. If
>> > you have the flaps full up and then lift slightly on the
outboard
>> > trailing edge you will get a slight deflection up. This is
>> because the
>> > flaps on the outboard end (next to the aileron) does not have
a
> stop
>> > except the rear spar. I lifted the ailerons some more and that
is
>> how it
>> > has been set for the last 80 hours or so.
>> >
>> > I had a talk with a Bonanza driver one day and he said that
>> raising the
>> > ailerons on a Bonanza was an old speed trick. The 10 has a
limit
>> to this
>> > because the forward edge will be deeper in the slip stream the
>> more you
>> > raise the trailing edge. Randy 40006
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
John
>> Gonzalez
>> > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 8:50 AM
>> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy
> Ailerons
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > I had a 7 am patient and they cancelled over the weekend so I
am
>> in to
>> > the
>> > office early with nothing to do.
>> >
>> > JOhn G.
>> >
>> >
>> >> From: Tim Olson
>> >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy
>> Ailerons
>> >> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:27:39 -0500
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Don't make too big a deal of it John...it's not worth too
>> >> much investigation into the linkages and how exactly they
>> >> deflect and affect eachother. It isn't ONLY in full-aft-stick
>> >> that this changes, it's just a very slight progressive change
>> >> in the aileron alignment that affects them both equally with
>> >> increasing up elevator. I didn't check it with full-forward
>> >> stick to see if the alignment changes there too.
>> >>
>> >> It's not a design defect, a big gotcha, or anything like
that.
>> >> And I seriously doubt the deflection is big enough to be
>> >> a big safety problem too. It's just an effect of what
>> >> happens with the elevator/stick/ailerons all connected
together.
>> >>
>> >> For this alignment, I kept the elevator perfectly neutral
>> >> as I mentioned in the previous email, and then I aligned the
>> >> ailerons. Then in cruise I looked out and they looked
>> >> basically the same. So in cruise, my elevator was also
>> >> neutral. I assure you, in flight, the RV-10 is very pitch
>> >> sensitive and I seriously doubt you'll EVER put enough
>> >> elevator into ANY maneuver with the RV-10 to cause you any
>> >> heartache with the mis-alignment. It's simply an alignment
>> >> that you must do properly if you want them not to droop
>> >> in cruise. Your actual stick movement at both high and low
>> >> airspeeds is very tiny in the RV-10. I have never had to
>> >> worry about fat people's legs getting in the way, for
>> >> instance...you don't need that much elevator even on an
>> >> extremely twitchy turbulent approach. And I can almost
>> >> guarantee that you'll never use a HUGE portion of the
available
>> >> up-elevator travel that you have...you'd rip the wings off.
>> >> You only use that much travel on landing rollout to slow the
>> >> plane.
>> >>
>> >> No, go grab your rivet gun (or dental drill) and do
>> >> something to take your mind off this. ;)
>> >>
>> >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>> >> do not archive
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> John Gonzalez wrote:
>> >
>> >>> Tim,
>> >>>
>> >>> So what you are telling us is that when you strapped the
>> control stick
>> >
>> >>> nuetral side to side but full back elevator with the seat
belt,
>> the
>> >>> aileron alignment problem was gone. But any other time with
the
>> sick
>> > not
>> >>> in the full back position, the ailerons droop.
>> >>>
>> >>> The best that I can figure it is that the bushing reciever
in the
>> > column
>> >>> is not parallel to the holes in the fork which hold the
aileron
>> > pushrod.
>> >>> Or, it could be that the holes in the fork at the end of the
tube
>> > which
>> >>> allows you to tie the right and left sticks together is not
>> > perpendicular
>> >>> to the long axis of the tube itself.
>> >>>
>> >>> In other words, then the stick goes full forward to full
back,
>> this
>> >>> translates into aileron movement even when the stick stays
> nuetral
>> > side to
>> >>> side. The bottom of WD 1011 (R) (L) column travel is on a
> different
>> > arc
>> >>> then your stick grip.
>> >>>
>> >>> Am I understanding this correctly?
>> >>>
>> >>> If so, did you just put the stick in slightly down
> elevator(Cruise
>> >>> position) and then adjust the ailerons to their nuetral
position.
>> >>>
>> >>> So now with this adjustment, when the stick goes full back
as in
>> > directly
>> >>> before a slow speed stall, what do the ailerons do? A slight
> droop
>> > would
>> >>> be okay only as long as flaps are down, but if no flaps are
not
>> > deployed,
>> >>> this would be a bad position to enter into a stall because
the
> wing
>> > tip
>> >>> would stall first before the in board portion of the wing
did.
>> >>>
>> >>> I think reflex would be slightly safer.
>> >>>
>> >>> JOhn G.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> From: Tim Olson
>> >>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> >>>> Subject: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy
> Ailerons
>> >>>> Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:27:40 -0500
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Yesterday I was looking for something to do for an hour
>> >>>> to waste some time, and I decided to look at my ailerons.
>> >>>> Some old-timers in the RV-10 lifetime may remember Randy
had
>> >>>> problems with his ailerons being rigged low, causing a
reduction
>> >>>> in stop speed. Well, I didn't think mine were originally
>> >>>> rigged bad. It was strange, as sometimes I would look at
the
>> >>>> ailerons in the hanger and the would be perfectly in-line
with
>> >>>> the wingtips and flaps. Then other times I'd look at them
>> >>>> in flight and the ailerons would be low on both sides just
>> >>>> a small amount. I would get done flying and look at them
>> >>>> and they'd be fine. I didn't know what to make of it. I
thought
>> >>>> maybe it was a lift or loading issue in-flight, but I just
>> >>>> didn't know for sure. Didn't concern me much because it
flew
>> >>>> great for over 200 hours that way, but it did bug me that
when
>> >>>> I flew with people like Vic, he could notice that kind of
thing.
>> >>>> It's like having your fly down in public. ;)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> So anyway, I centered the sticks yesterday and they were OK
in
> the
>> >>>> hanger with the sticks neutral, but maybe off by a little
more
>> than
>> >>>> 1/8" per side. So I thought I'd adjust them. I strapped the
>> > seatbelt
>> >>>> around the stick to keep them centered tight, and lo and
>> behold the
>> >>>> ailerons were now in-line very nicely.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> It was then that I realized that the small amount of travel
>> induced
>> >>>> in the ailerons with the elevator movement was the entire
issue.
>> >>>> So I used my aileron/rudder gust lock which centers the
>> elevator and
>> >>>> centered the sticks. Yeehaw, there was what I was looking
for!
>> >>>> The ailerons were now drooped about maybe 1/4" per side or
>> >>>> so. So it WAS the elevator control, and in-flight the
elevators
>> >>>> are neutral. Time to adjust.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> When all was said and done, I had them adjusted to be
matched
> with
>> >>>> the wingtips and flaps in-flight, and I put about 2.5 hours
on.
>> >>>> It flies the same...not sure about speed as I never really
try
> to
>> >>>> fly top speed, but it looks nicer in cruise and can't hurt.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> So use that tip when you're rigging your ailerons for
flight,
> and
>> >>>> perhaps you'll not have to go over a year and 200 hours
with
>> >>>> droopy tips like I did.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Tim
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons |
Coincidentally, we have been adjusting the ailerons of the two RV-10's at Watsonville
observing all that has been written. Has anyone noticed a change in handling
characteristics or cruise speed improvements when making the adjustment
between trailing edges flush on the ground vs flush in the air?
To quantify the adjustment (N939SB), it was one full turn of the rod end fitting
will lift one aileron .25 inch.
Bill DeRouchey
N939SB, flying
billderou@yahoo.com
John Jessen <jjessen@rcn.com> wrote:
Not a service bulletin, but something that addresses the obvious rigging
issue. Best to have that change come out of Vans so it hits everyone.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
I think it's way too minor for a service bulletin.
I went 200+ hours before I fixed it. It would be nice to have perhaps
better notes in the plans about aligning it, but we all know how well those
ideas are received. It's not really a safety issue either.
I think the best we can hope for is that eventually we can educate people by
these types of forums. For the people who don't participate
online....well....maybe we'll recognize their planes by their ailerons.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John Jessen wrote:
>
> Anyone talk to Van's about this yet? May be a good topic for a
> bulletin from them to the -10 builders.
>
> do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 11:04 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
>
>
> No, it's not low pressure from what I can tell. It's just that the
> jig, or whatever was used during the initial setup sets them to even
> but at a setting where you've got aft stick (up elevator) put in.
> I think probably many people (including myself) probably didn't pay
> attention to the elevator position during the rigging...that's all.
> And we're all ending up 1/4" low. It could just be the jig sets them
> that way by accident.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Scott Schmidt wrote:
>> This is pretty interesting. When I set up my ailerons they were set
>> perfectly even with my flaps. But in-flight I have noticed that my
>> ailerons are down 1/4" from my flaps. I have been leary of raising
>> them but sounds like that is what I should do. If I do this though
>> they will be a little higher than the flaps on the ground.
>>
>> Pretty amazing threre is that much of low pressure that is pulling up
>> the flaps that much.
>>
>> */Tim Olson /* wrote:
>>
>>
>> That's a good observation on the flap stop...it's that huge doubler
>> that you're talking about I'm sure.
>>
>> So the biggest point you're making, if I'm not mistaken is, when
>> you adjust the ailerons up, do a quick doublecheck to make sure
>> that even when you apply some up pressure on them, the nose of
>> the aileron doesn't dip down into the slipstream, right? And,
>> if you adjust them to be perfectly inline, you probably won't have
>> that problem, but if you try to give them some "reflex" to reduce
>> drag, you may have that issue.
>>
>> Did I get it right?
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> Randy DeBauw wrote:
>> >
>> > I have been watching this post with interest. I just wanted to
>> chime in
>> > on how I made my adj. It was obvious that in level flight, calm
>> air and
>> > auto pilot on that my ailerons were down about 1/4" on each side.
I
>> > made the adjustment to them and lined them up per the book. Then
>> I few
>> > several hours looking at the alignment. I noticed that ailerons in
>> > flight were down again about 1/16 to and 1/8". Well if you look
>> at the
>> > flaps and how full up is determined it is by the rear spar
>> doubler. If
>> > you have the flaps full up and then lift slightly on the outboard
>> > trailing edge you will get a slight deflection up. This is
>> because the
>> > flaps on the outboard end (next to the aileron) does not have
>> a
> stop
>> > except the rear spar. I lifted the ailerons some more and that is
>> how it
>> > has been set for the last 80 hours or so.
>> >
>> > I had a talk with a Bonanza driver one day and he said that
>> raising the
>> > ailerons on a Bonanza was an old speed trick. The 10 has a limit
>> to this
>> > because the forward edge will be deeper in the slip stream the
>> more you
>> > raise the trailing edge. Randy 40006
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
>> Gonzalez
>> > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 8:50 AM
>> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy
> Ailerons
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > I had a 7 am patient and they cancelled over the weekend so I am
>> in to
>> > the
>> > office early with nothing to do.
>> >
>> > JOhn G.
>> >
>> >
>> >> From: Tim Olson
>> >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy
>> Ailerons
>> >> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:27:39 -0500
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Don't make too big a deal of it John...it's not worth too
>> >> much investigation into the linkages and how exactly they
>> >> deflect and affect eachother. It isn't ONLY in full-aft-stick
>> >> that this changes, it's just a very slight progressive change
>> >> in the aileron alignment that affects them both equally with
>> >> increasing up elevator. I didn't check it with full-forward
>> >> stick to see if the alignment changes there too.
>> >>
>> >> It's not a design defect, a big gotcha, or anything like that.
>> >> And I seriously doubt the deflection is big enough to be
>> >> a big safety problem too. It's just an effect of what
>> >> happens with the elevator/stick/ailerons all connected together.
>> >>
>> >> For this alignment, I kept the elevator perfectly neutral
>> >> as I mentioned in the previous email, and then I aligned the
>> >> ailerons. Then in cruise I looked out and they looked
>> >> basically the same. So in cruise, my elevator was also
>> >> neutral. I assure you, in flight, the RV-10 is very pitch
>> >> sensitive and I seriously doubt you'll EVER put enough
>> >> elevator into ANY maneuver with the RV-10 to cause you any
>> >> heartache with the mis-alignment. It's simply an alignment
>> >> that you must do properly if you want them not to droop
>> >> in cruise. Your actual stick movement at both high and low
>> >> airspeeds is very tiny in the RV-10. I have never had to
>> >> worry about fat people's legs getting in the way, for
>> >> instance...you don't need that much elevator even on an
>> >> extremely twitchy turbulent approach. And I can almost
>> >> guarantee that you'll never use a HUGE portion of the available
>> >> up-elevator travel that you have...you'd rip the wings off.
>> >> You only use that much travel on landing rollout to slow the
>> >> plane.
>> >>
>> >> No, go grab your rivet gun (or dental drill) and do
>> >> something to take your mind off this. ;)
>> >>
>> >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>> >> do not archive
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> John Gonzalez wrote:
>> >
>> >>> Tim,
>> >>>
>> >>> So what you are telling us is that when you strapped the
>> control stick
>> >
>> >>> nuetral side to side but full back elevator with the seat belt,
>> the
>> >>> aileron alignment problem was gone. But any other time with the
>> sick
>> > not
>> >>> in the full back position, the ailerons droop.
>> >>>
>> >>> The best that I can figure it is that the bushing reciever in
the
>> > column
>> >>> is not parallel to the holes in the fork which hold the aileron
>> > pushrod.
>> >>> Or, it could be that the holes in the fork at the end of the
tube
>> > which
>> >>> allows you to tie the right and left sticks together is not
>> > perpendicular
>> >>> to the long axis of the tube itself.
>> >>>
>> >>> In other words, then the stick goes full forward to full back,
>> this
>> >>> translates into aileron movement even when the stick stays
> nuetral
>> > side to
>> >>> side. The bottom of WD 1011 (R) (L) column travel is on a
> different
>> > arc
>> >>> then your stick grip.
>> >>>
>> >>> Am I understanding this correctly?
>> >>>
>> >>> If so, did you just put the stick in slightly down
> elevator(Cruise
>> >>> position) and then adjust the ailerons to their nuetral
position.
>> >>>
>> >>> So now with this adjustment, when the stick goes full back as in
>> > directly
>> >>> before a slow speed stall, what do the ailerons do? A slight
> droop
>> > would
>> >>> be okay only as long as flaps are down, but if no flaps are not
>> > deployed,
>> >>> this would be a bad position to enter into a stall because
>> the
> wing
>> > tip
>> >>> would stall first before the in board portion of the wing did.
>> >>>
>> >>> I think reflex would be slightly safer.
>> >>>
>> >>> JOhn G.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> From: Tim Olson
>> >>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> >>>> Subject: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy
> Ailerons
>> >>>> Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:27:40 -0500
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Yesterday I was looking for something to do for an hour
>> >>>> to waste some time, and I decided to look at my ailerons.
>> >>>> Some old-timers in the RV-10 lifetime may remember Randy had
>> >>>> problems with his ailerons being rigged low, causing a
reduction
>> >>>> in stop speed. Well, I didn't think mine were originally
>> >>>> rigged bad. It was strange, as sometimes I would look at the
>> >>>> ailerons in the hanger and the would be perfectly in-line with
>> >>>> the wingtips and flaps. Then other times I'd look at them
>> >>>> in flight and the ailerons would be low on both sides just
>> >>>> a small amount. I would get done flying and look at them
>> >>>> and they'd be fine. I didn't know what to make of it. I thought
>> >>>> maybe it was a lift or loading issue in-flight, but I just
>> >>>> didn't know for sure. Didn't concern me much because it flew
>> >>>> great for over 200 hours that way, but it did bug me that when
>> >>>> I flew with people like Vic, he could notice that kind of
thing.
>> >>>> It's like having your fly down in public. ;)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> So anyway, I centered the sticks yesterday and they were OK
>> in
> the
>> >>>> hanger with the sticks neutral, but maybe off by a little more
>> than
>> >>>> 1/8" per side. So I thought I'd adjust them. I strapped the
>> > seatbelt
>> >>>> around the stick to keep them centered tight, and lo and
>> behold the
>> >>>> ailerons were now in-line very nicely.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> It was then that I realized that the small amount of travel
>> induced
>> >>>> in the ailerons with the elevator movement was the entire
issue.
>> >>>> So I used my aileron/rudder gust lock which centers the
>> elevator and
>> >>>> centered the sticks. Yeehaw, there was what I was looking for!
>> >>>> The ailerons were now drooped about maybe 1/4" per side or
>> >>>> so. So it WAS the elevator control, and in-flight the elevators
>> >>>> are neutral. Time to adjust.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> When all was said and done, I had them adjusted to be
>> matched
> with
>> >>>> the wingtips and flaps in-flight, and I put about 2.5 hours on.
>> >>>> It flies the same...not sure about speed as I never really
>> try
> to
>> >>>> fly top speed, but it looks nicer in cruise and can't hurt.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> So use that tip when you're rigging your ailerons for
>> flight,
> and
>> >>>> perhaps you'll not have to go over a year and 200 hours with
>> >>>> droopy tips like I did.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Tim
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons |
Tom,
I still have this page posted from last year:
http://www.myrv10.com/performance/
I haven't uploaded the new one yet that will replace it, but I've wiped
the slate and intend to start over with the specs. Initially I had that
airspeed error that I didn't even know about (because I didn't test
for it), so my numbers were messed up....and I had to adjust them after
the fact. So I'm going to re-write the entire page and just start
logging some numbers on flights.
What I REALLY want to get is to have some other people, ONLY those
who've actually measured their airspeed indication error, shoot me
some of their specs over time too. That way we can kind of have a
good broad-based list of power settings and altitudes for people to
compare too, with various engines and props. Nobody's ever sent
anything yet though...and I don't want numbers that aren't fairly
complete.
So anyway, you'll see this page start fresh soon. I may have to
actually get out and see how fast it goes too, just to keep people
smiling about numbers. To date, I think the fastest I've let it
climb in speed is about 184 or 185kts TAS, but I'm not sure that it
was done yet.
Tim
Tom Deutsch wrote:
>
> Since I just finished rigging my controls in preparation for my first
> flight I just had to go to the airport to check. What I found was my
> ailerons were perfectly aliened with the elevator in the neutral
> position and when going to full up elevator they raised approx 3/16" and
> at full down elevator they also raised the same amount. Interesting. I
> agree with Tim that is not a big cause for concern. If you rig with the
> elevator at neutral you will be good to go.
>
> Tim, do you have an accumulation of performance stats for the 10? If so
> were can I find it?
>
> Tom Deutsch, #40545
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
> Johnston
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 3:42 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
>
> <CJohnston@popsound.com>
>
> Hey all -
>
> All this talk about ailerons has got me wondering if someone could
> answer my previously (unanswered) question about how much downward throw
> the ailerons have? I don't want anything very scientific like degrees
> or anything. Just maybe a measurement from the trailing edge of the
> aileron at full down deflection to the trailing edge of the flap with
> the flap in the full up position. I'm still nervous about my rubbing
> issue, and I'm nowhere near mounting the wings so that I can see if it
> really is a problem. Could someone help me out?
>
> Thanks!
>
> cj
> #40410
> fuse
> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 12:45 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
>
>
> I think it's way too minor for a service bulletin.
> I went 200+ hours before I fixed it. It would be
> nice to have perhaps better notes in the plans about
> aligning it, but we all know how well those ideas
> are received. It's not really a safety issue either.
> I think the best we can hope for is that eventually we
> can educate people by these types of forums. For the
> people who don't participate online....well....maybe
> we'll recognize their planes by their ailerons.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> John Jessen wrote:
>>
>> Anyone talk to Van's about this yet? May be a good topic for a
> bulletin
>> from them to the -10 builders.
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 11:04 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
>>
>>
>> No, it's not low pressure from what I can tell. It's just that the
> jig, or
>> whatever was used during the initial setup sets them to even but at a
>> setting where you've got aft stick (up elevator) put in.
>> I think probably many people (including myself) probably didn't pay
>> attention to the elevator position during the rigging...that's all.
>> And we're all ending up 1/4" low. It could just be the jig sets them
> that
>> way by accident.
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> Scott Schmidt wrote:
>>> This is pretty interesting. When I set up my ailerons they were set
>>> perfectly even with my flaps. But in-flight I have noticed that my
>>> ailerons are down 1/4" from my flaps. I have been leary of raising
>>> them but sounds like that is what I should do. If I do this though
>>> they will be a little higher than the flaps on the ground.
>>>
>>> Pretty amazing threre is that much of low pressure that is pulling up
>
>>> the flaps that much.
>>>
>>> */Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>/* wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> That's a good observation on the flap stop...it's that huge
> doubler
>>> that you're talking about I'm sure.
>>>
>>> So the biggest point you're making, if I'm not mistaken is, when
>>> you adjust the ailerons up, do a quick doublecheck to make sure
>>> that even when you apply some up pressure on them, the nose of
>>> the aileron doesn't dip down into the slipstream, right? And,
>>> if you adjust them to be perfectly inline, you probably won't
> have
>>> that problem, but if you try to give them some "reflex" to reduce
>>> drag, you may have that issue.
>>>
>>> Did I get it right?
>>>
>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>>> do not archive
>>>
>>>
>>> Randy DeBauw wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I have been watching this post with interest. I just wanted to
>>> chime in
>>> > on how I made my adj. It was obvious that in level flight,
> calm
>>> air and
>>> > auto pilot on that my ailerons were down about 1/4" on each
> side. I
>>> > made the adjustment to them and lined them up per the book.
> Then
>>> I few
>>> > several hours looking at the alignment. I noticed that
> ailerons in
>>> > flight were down again about 1/16 to and 1/8". Well if you
> look
>>> at the
>>> > flaps and how full up is determined it is by the rear spar
>>> doubler. If
>>> > you have the flaps full up and then lift slightly on the
> outboard
>>> > trailing edge you will get a slight deflection up. This is
>>> because the
>>> > flaps on the outboard end (next to the aileron) does not have
> a
>> stop
>>> > except the rear spar. I lifted the ailerons some more and that
> is
>>> how it
>>> > has been set for the last 80 hours or so.
>>> >
>>> > I had a talk with a Bonanza driver one day and he said that
>>> raising the
>>> > ailerons on a Bonanza was an old speed trick. The 10 has a
> limit
>>> to this
>>> > because the forward edge will be deeper in the slip stream the
>>> more you
>>> > raise the trailing edge. Randy 40006
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> John
>>> Gonzalez
>>> > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 8:50 AM
>>> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy
>> Ailerons
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Thanks,
>>> >
>>> > I had a 7 am patient and they cancelled over the weekend so I
> am
>>> in to
>>> > the
>>> > office early with nothing to do.
>>> >
>>> > JOhn G.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> From: Tim Olson
>>> >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy
>>> Ailerons
>>> >> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:27:39 -0500
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Don't make too big a deal of it John...it's not worth too
>>> >> much investigation into the linkages and how exactly they
>>> >> deflect and affect eachother. It isn't ONLY in full-aft-stick
>>> >> that this changes, it's just a very slight progressive change
>>> >> in the aileron alignment that affects them both equally with
>>> >> increasing up elevator. I didn't check it with full-forward
>>> >> stick to see if the alignment changes there too.
>>> >>
>>> >> It's not a design defect, a big gotcha, or anything like
> that.
>>> >> And I seriously doubt the deflection is big enough to be
>>> >> a big safety problem too. It's just an effect of what
>>> >> happens with the elevator/stick/ailerons all connected
> together.
>>> >>
>>> >> For this alignment, I kept the elevator perfectly neutral
>>> >> as I mentioned in the previous email, and then I aligned the
>>> >> ailerons. Then in cruise I looked out and they looked
>>> >> basically the same. So in cruise, my elevator was also
>>> >> neutral. I assure you, in flight, the RV-10 is very pitch
>>> >> sensitive and I seriously doubt you'll EVER put enough
>>> >> elevator into ANY maneuver with the RV-10 to cause you any
>>> >> heartache with the mis-alignment. It's simply an alignment
>>> >> that you must do properly if you want them not to droop
>>> >> in cruise. Your actual stick movement at both high and low
>>> >> airspeeds is very tiny in the RV-10. I have never had to
>>> >> worry about fat people's legs getting in the way, for
>>> >> instance...you don't need that much elevator even on an
>>> >> extremely twitchy turbulent approach. And I can almost
>>> >> guarantee that you'll never use a HUGE portion of the
> available
>>> >> up-elevator travel that you have...you'd rip the wings off.
>>> >> You only use that much travel on landing rollout to slow the
>>> >> plane.
>>> >>
>>> >> No, go grab your rivet gun (or dental drill) and do
>>> >> something to take your mind off this. ;)
>>> >>
>>> >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>>> >> do not archive
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> John Gonzalez wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>> Tim,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> So what you are telling us is that when you strapped the
>>> control stick
>>> >
>>> >>> nuetral side to side but full back elevator with the seat
> belt,
>>> the
>>> >>> aileron alignment problem was gone. But any other time with
> the
>>> sick
>>> > not
>>> >>> in the full back position, the ailerons droop.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The best that I can figure it is that the bushing reciever
> in the
>>> > column
>>> >>> is not parallel to the holes in the fork which hold the
> aileron
>>> > pushrod.
>>> >>> Or, it could be that the holes in the fork at the end of the
> tube
>>> > which
>>> >>> allows you to tie the right and left sticks together is not
>>> > perpendicular
>>> >>> to the long axis of the tube itself.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> In other words, then the stick goes full forward to full
> back,
>>> this
>>> >>> translates into aileron movement even when the stick stays
>> nuetral
>>> > side to
>>> >>> side. The bottom of WD 1011 (R) (L) column travel is on a
>> different
>>> > arc
>>> >>> then your stick grip.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Am I understanding this correctly?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> If so, did you just put the stick in slightly down
>> elevator(Cruise
>>> >>> position) and then adjust the ailerons to their nuetral
> position.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> So now with this adjustment, when the stick goes full back
> as in
>>> > directly
>>> >>> before a slow speed stall, what do the ailerons do? A slight
>> droop
>>> > would
>>> >>> be okay only as long as flaps are down, but if no flaps are
> not
>>> > deployed,
>>> >>> this would be a bad position to enter into a stall because
> the
>> wing
>>> > tip
>>> >>> would stall first before the in board portion of the wing
> did.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I think reflex would be slightly safer.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> JOhn G.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> From: Tim Olson
>>> >>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> >>>> Subject: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy
>> Ailerons
>>> >>>> Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:27:40 -0500
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Yesterday I was looking for something to do for an hour
>>> >>>> to waste some time, and I decided to look at my ailerons.
>>> >>>> Some old-timers in the RV-10 lifetime may remember Randy
> had
>>> >>>> problems with his ailerons being rigged low, causing a
> reduction
>>> >>>> in stop speed. Well, I didn't think mine were originally
>>> >>>> rigged bad. It was strange, as sometimes I would look at
> the
>>> >>>> ailerons in the hanger and the would be perfectly in-line
> with
>>> >>>> the wingtips and flaps. Then other times I'd look at them
>>> >>>> in flight and the ailerons would be low on both sides just
>>> >>>> a small amount. I would get done flying and look at them
>>> >>>> and they'd be fine. I didn't know what to make of it. I
> thought
>>> >>>> maybe it was a lift or loading issue in-flight, but I just
>>> >>>> didn't know for sure. Didn't concern me much because it
> flew
>>> >>>> great for over 200 hours that way, but it did bug me that
> when
>>> >>>> I flew with people like Vic, he could notice that kind of
> thing.
>>> >>>> It's like having your fly down in public. ;)
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> So anyway, I centered the sticks yesterday and they were OK
> in
>> the
>>> >>>> hanger with the sticks neutral, but maybe off by a little
> more
>>> than
>>> >>>> 1/8" per side. So I thought I'd adjust them. I strapped the
>>> > seatbelt
>>> >>>> around the stick to keep them centered tight, and lo and
>>> behold the
>>> >>>> ailerons were now in-line very nicely.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> It was then that I realized that the small amount of travel
>>> induced
>>> >>>> in the ailerons with the elevator movement was the entire
> issue.
>>> >>>> So I used my aileron/rudder gust lock which centers the
>>> elevator and
>>> >>>> centered the sticks. Yeehaw, there was what I was looking
> for!
>>> >>>> The ailerons were now drooped about maybe 1/4" per side or
>>> >>>> so. So it WAS the elevator control, and in-flight the
> elevators
>>> >>>> are neutral. Time to adjust.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> When all was said and done, I had them adjusted to be
> matched
>> with
>>> >>>> the wingtips and flaps in-flight, and I put about 2.5 hours
> on.
>>> >>>> It flies the same...not sure about speed as I never really
> try
>> to
>>> >>>> fly top speed, but it looks nicer in cruise and can't hurt.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> So use that tip when you're rigging your ailerons for
> flight,
>> and
>>> >>>> perhaps you'll not have to go over a year and 200 hours
> with
>>> >>>> droopy tips like I did.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Tim
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> --
>>> >>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 in southwest Michigan |
I'm a long way from flying, but my plane build location is Holland, MI if it helps.
Eric Large
#40062
side tracked on custom fiberglass interior pieces and cowl
----- Original Message ----
From: William Greenley <greenley@starband.net>
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 2:16:58 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 in southwest Michigan
I have almost decided to build an RV-10, but am planning on waiting for Oshkosh
to start so that I have a chance to ride in one to make sure I am comfortable
with it. Everything looks and sounds good, but it seems a little foolish to start
such a project without ever having sat in a 10. Is there any chance anyone
will be in Southwest Michigan (C91) in the next few months. I would love a chance
to see a 10 and maybe get started a few months sooner.
Bill Greenley
(wanting a change from my '56 172)
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
Message 29
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| Subject: | AE Fuel Guardian Sensor Locations |
I'm trying to avoid having to seal the tanks and fill them (per the instructions)
in order to get a sensor location. Does anyone have accurate locating dimensions
for the sensors on the inboard rib and the corresponding fuel quantity
they show.
Thanks in advance!
Mark Lanier
#519
www.lanier-rv10.com
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