Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:00 AM - New engine pricing (McGANN, Ron)
2. 03:46 AM - fuse conduit anchor points (Jay Brinkmeyer)
3. 05:03 AM - Re: fuse conduit anchor points (John Testement)
4. 06:16 AM - Re: fuse conduit anchor points (William Curtis)
5. 07:34 AM - Re: fuse conduit anchor points (Niko)
6. 07:46 AM - Re: fuse conduit anchor points (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
7. 09:04 AM - Re: fuse conduit anchor points ()
8. 09:11 AM - strobe power location (Jay Rowe)
9. 11:22 AM - Re: fuse conduit anchor points (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
10. 12:06 PM - Re: New engine pricing (Dj Merrill)
11. 12:28 PM - IO-540 C4B5 for sale (Mike Lauritsen - Work)
12. 12:46 PM - Re: New engine pricing (Niko)
13. 05:45 PM - Re: Smokin Rivets (Pascal)
14. 06:05 PM - Re: Smokin Rivets (Pascal)
15. 08:41 PM - Got any Crack (s) ? - More questions (Deems Davis)
Message 1
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| Subject: | New engine pricing |
Doug Reeves VAF web site suggests there is a new pricing structure on
Vans Engines and an engine/prop combo deal. I can't find anything on
Vans site. Is this an April fools day joke, or does someone have some
tangible info on an IO-540/Hartzell combo deal??
Cheers,
Ron
187 finishing
Message 2
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| Subject: | fuse conduit anchor points |
I'm running ~1.1" conduit in the beneath the rear seats and baggage floors on
the outboard walls as several other folks have done. Two custom clamps/brackets
at the tailcone side securely hold the conduit exit points. The entry next to
the rear seats is pretty snug (RTV?).
What's acceptable practice to secure the slack middle points to the bulkheads?
Do they make adel clamps in really big sizes? Once the floors get sealed up
it's going to be difficult to change anything in the middle...
Thanks in advance for any input.
Regards,
Jay
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
Message 3
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| Subject: | fuse conduit anchor points |
I used the stick on tie wrap holders. First I cleaned the area real good and
then used E6000 to make sure they stay stuck. (photo attached)
John Testement
jwt@roadmapscoaching.com
40321
Richmond, VA
Paint prep and LOTS of misc stuff
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay Brinkmeyer
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 6:45 AM
Subject: RV10-List: fuse conduit anchor points
--> <jaybrinkmeyer@yahoo.com>
I'm running ~1.1" conduit in the beneath the rear seats and baggage floors
on the outboard walls as several other folks have done. Two custom
clamps/brackets at the tailcone side securely hold the conduit exit points.
The entry next to the rear seats is pretty snug (RTV?).
What's acceptable practice to secure the slack middle points to the
bulkheads?
Do they make adel clamps in really big sizes? Once the floors get sealed up
it's going to be difficult to change anything in the middle...
Thanks in advance for any input.
Regards,
Jay
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search
weather shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
--
5:32 AM
--
5:32 AM
Message 4
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| Subject: | fuse conduit anchor points |
Try these:=0Ahttp://terminaltown.com/Pages/Page65.html=0A=0A[IMG]h
ttp://terminaltown.com/Media/pict133.jpg[/IMG]=0A=0AThe come in handy
in various lighting holes.=0Ahttp://wcurtis.nerv10.com/07Wings/wings95h
.html=0A=0AWilliam=0Ahttp://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ =0A=0A------
----------------------------------=0A=0A--> RV10-List message posted
by: Jay Brinkmeyer =0A=0AI'm running ~1.1" conduit in the beneath the
rear seats and baggage floors on=0Athe outboard walls as several other
folks have done. Two custom clamps/brackets=0Aat the tailcone side secur
ely hold the conduit exit points. The entry next to=0Athe rear seats is
pretty snug (RTV?). =0A=0AWhat's acceptable practice to secure the sl
ack middle points to the bulkheads?=0ADo they make adel clamps in really
big sizes? Once the floors get sealed up=0Ait's going to be difficult t
o change anything in the middle...=0A=0AThanks in advance for any inp
ut.=0A=0ARegards,=0AJay=0A
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: fuse conduit anchor points |
You need at least one more support for the wiring.
You bolt an adel clamp to one of the baggage compartment ribs to secure the wires
or make an angle from sheet stock , drill a 3/4inch hole on one leg of the
angle and put a snap bushing in it then rivet the angle to one of the ribs in
the baggage compartment.
Niko
40188
----- Original Message ----
From: Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2007 6:45:12 AM
Subject: RV10-List: fuse conduit anchor points
I'm running ~1.1" conduit in the beneath the rear seats and baggage floors on
the outboard walls as several other folks have done. Two custom clamps/brackets
at the tailcone side securely hold the conduit exit points. The entry next to
the rear seats is pretty snug (RTV?).
What's acceptable practice to secure the slack middle points to the bulkheads?
Do they make adel clamps in really big sizes? Once the floors get sealed up
it's going to be difficult to change anything in the middle...
Thanks in advance for any input.
Regards,
Jay
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
Message 6
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| Subject: | fuse conduit anchor points |
Quick question to everyone regarding this. These and the other solutions
that have been discussed are for running unprotected wires through the
lighting holes. My question is why make it so complicated, we have
installed conduit, which will protect the insulation on the wires, we
have already edge finished the lighting holes, so why not run the
conduit through the lighting holes and secure it with lock wire, IE
drill a small hole below the opening, take a length of safety wire and
lock the conduit in place?
Is this bad thinking, or are we just trying to make it more complex and
spend allot of money on cool fasteners?
Dan
N289DT
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Curtis
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:20 AM
Subject: re: RV10-List: fuse conduit anchor points
Try these:
http://terminaltown.com/Pages/Page65.html
[IMG]http://terminaltown.com/Media/pict133.jpg[/IMG]
The come in handy in various lighting holes.
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/07Wings/wings95h.html
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
_____
I'm running ~1.1" conduit in the beneath the rear seats and baggage
floors on
the outboard walls as several other folks have done. Two custom
clamps/brackets
at the tailcone side securely hold the conduit exit points. The entry
next to
the rear seats is pretty snug (RTV?).
What's acceptable practice to secure the slack middle points to the
bulkheads?
Do they make adel clamps in really big sizes? Once the floors get sealed
up
it's going to be difficult to change anything in the middle...
Thanks in advance for any input.
Regards,
Jay
Message 7
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| Subject: | fuse conduit anchor points |
Dan:
If you are going to wire tie a wire or conduit to a lightening hole, a good
safeguard is to install another wite tie around the first tie (perpendicular
to it), and between the wire and the aluminium. This creates an anti-chaffe
buffer between.
Steve Mills N750SM (reserved)
RV-10 40486 Slow-build
Naperville, Illinois
finishing fuselage
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R.
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:45 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: fuse conduit anchor points
Quick question to everyone regarding this. These and the other solutions
that have been discussed are for running unprotected wires through the
lighting holes. My question is why make it so complicated, we have installed
conduit, which will protect the insulation on the wires, we have already
edge finished the lighting holes, so why not run the conduit through the
lighting holes and secure it with lock wire, IE drill a small hole below the
opening, take a length of safety wire and lock the conduit in place?
Is this bad thinking, or are we just trying to make it more complex and
spend allot of money on cool fasteners?
Dan
N289DT
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:20 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com; rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: re: RV10-List: fuse conduit anchor points
Try these:
http://terminaltown.com/Pages/Page65.html
[IMG]http://terminaltown.com/Media/pict133.jpg[/IMG]
The come in handy in various lighting holes.
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/07Wings/wings95h.html
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
I'm running ~1.1" conduit in the beneath the rear seats and baggage floors
on
the outboard walls as several other folks have done. Two custom
clamps/brackets
at the tailcone side securely hold the conduit exit points. The entry next
to
the rear seats is pretty snug (RTV?).
What's acceptable practice to secure the slack middle points to the
bulkheads?
Do they make adel clamps in really big sizes? Once the floors get sealed
up
it's going to be difficult to change anything in the middle...
Thanks in advance for any input.
Regards,
Jay
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | strobe power location |
Van's suggests putting the strobe power source between two fuselage side
stiffeners behind the baggage compartment. Is there any concern that
this location could effect the funtioning of the AHRS unit(s) that I
plan on putting on a shelf in that same area? Thanks, Jay Rowe #40301
Message 9
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| Subject: | fuse conduit anchor points |
I have heard and used that method before on wiring, but when using the
conduit with insulated wire inside isn't that enough? How many layers do
you need?
Dan
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
millstees@ameritech.net
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 12:06 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: fuse conduit anchor points
Dan:
If you are going to wire tie a wire or conduit to a lightening hole, a
good safeguard is to install another wite tie around the first tie
(perpendicular to it), and between the wire and the aluminium. This
creates an anti-chaffe buffer between.
Steve Mills N750SM (reserved)
RV-10 40486 Slow-build
Naperville, Illinois
finishing fuselage
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel
R.
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:45 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: fuse conduit anchor points
Quick question to everyone regarding this. These and the other
solutions that have been discussed are for running unprotected wires
through the lighting holes. My question is why make it so complicated,
we have installed conduit, which will protect the insulation on the
wires, we have already edge finished the lighting holes, so why not run
the conduit through the lighting holes and secure it with lock wire, IE
drill a small hole below the opening, take a length of safety wire and
lock the conduit in place?
Is this bad thinking, or are we just trying to make it more
complex and spend allot of money on cool fasteners?
Dan
N289DT
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Curtis
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:20 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com; rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: re: RV10-List: fuse conduit anchor points
Try these:
http://terminaltown.com/Pages/Page65.html
[IMG]http://terminaltown.com/Media/pict133.jpg[/IMG]
The come in handy in various lighting holes.
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/07Wings/wings95h.html
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
_____
I'm running ~1.1" conduit in the beneath the rear seats and
baggage floors on
the outboard walls as several other folks have done. Two custom
clamps/brackets
at the tailcone side securely hold the conduit exit points. The
entry next to
the rear seats is pretty snug (RTV?).
What's acceptable practice to secure the slack middle points to
the bulkheads?
Do they make adel clamps in really big sizes? Once the floors
get sealed up
it's going to be difficult to change anything in the middle...
Thanks in advance for any input.
Regards,
Jay
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: New engine pricing |
McGANN, Ron wrote:
>
>
> Doug Reeves VAF web site suggests there is a new pricing structure on
> Vans Engines and an engine/prop combo deal. I can't find anything on
> Vans site. Is this an April fools day joke, or does someone have some
> tangible info on an IO-540/Hartzell combo deal??
>
It is also mentioned on the Aero-news site:
<http://aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=7011a266-4c6d-48fc-b9e6-25fee4db6d95&>
fyi
-Dj
Message 11
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| Subject: | IO-540 C4B5 for sale |
I have info on a zero timed IO-540 C4B5 for sale with accessories for
$32,500 if anyone is interested.
Serious buyers only email me off list at: mike.toolman@gmail.com
- no phone calls please -
Mike
-- Do Not Archive --
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: New engine pricing |
If you go to Vans engine order form you will see the combo deal on page 2.
Niko
----- Original Message ----
From: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2007 3:05:22 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: New engine pricing
McGANN, Ron wrote:
>
>
> Doug Reeves VAF web site suggests there is a new pricing structure on
> Vans Engines and an engine/prop combo deal. I can't find anything on
> Vans site. Is this an April fools day joke, or does someone have some
> tangible info on an IO-540/Hartzell combo deal??
>
It is also mentioned on the Aero-news site:
<http://aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=7011a266-4c6d-48fc-b9e6-25fee4db6d95&;>
fyi
-Dj
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Smokin Rivets |
Smokin Rivets
----- Original Message -----
From: Noel & Yoshie Simmons
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 12:34 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Smokin Rivets
The anatomy of the smokin' rivet.
What is smoke? The black residue that streams down wind of a rivet is
Aluminum oxide, the second hardest substance on earth with the first
being diamonds. Aluminum oxide is a by product of corrosion that
naturally occurs. Aluminums is considered to be self lubricating,
meaning it will continue to sluff, and the aluminum oxide being harder
than the base metal will exponentially carve more aluminum oxide out of
the base metal,
A rivet that has been properly set will eventually smoke given a
structure subjected to vibration that has been under engineered, meaning
not enough rivets per inch. I have seen, and repaired these structures
(again and again), mostly engine nacelles on jets, fortunately or
unfortunately how every you want to look at the subject, Van's aircraft
does not have any under engineered structures that would qualify for the
under engineered place to look for smoking rivets. Yes all rivet joints
move to one degree or another so a rivet can be set in such a way that
it will smoke. In conclusion smoking rivets on RV is a builder flaw.
How to set rivets that will smoke.
First let us look at the parts that Van's sends us. The Punching
process is extremely actuate, Fin Power CNC punch press have a tolerance
of .004 in 8 linear feet. Van's has CAD people that really know their
system and can tell the punch press exactly where to put holes. Given
the .004 tolerance there are some places on the aircraft that have the
same hole in 4 sheets of aluminum that each have this tolerance so you
will see holes that are a little hard to put a reamer through, but is
still very accurate.
The punching action causes aluminum to "flow". That is the cause of
the volcano on the exit side of the sheet. This flow is not like the
burr created from using a drill bit. You must remove the volcano
completely with out countersinking the base metal.
Below is how to cause voids and entrap, well let's call it 'Stuff' for
lack of better words, which promote the corrosive environment to create
copious amounts of SMOKE.
1.. Use a drill bit instead of a reamer.
1.. Just for giggles take a =BC" drill bit and begin drilling a
hole in a piece of .032 sheet metal. You will see that the hole that
begins to develop is triangular, and as the drill bit finally passes the
hole is not truly round. This is obviously a start of voids in the
rivet joint.
2.. USE a Reamer they turn triangular holes into properly sized
round ones. Reamers should be used everywhere on the van's pre-punched
holes
2.. Don't deburr/ deburr to deeply
1.. The punching process causes a volcano like structure on the
punch exit. Not only will this cause a void but will chip the rim of
the volcano into the joint acting like grist in a roller mill.
2.. The head and or shop head will sit up on the volcano and will
not properly clamp the rivet joint.
3.. Deburring to deeply is a very, very common mistake RV
builder's make due to the punching process.
4.. Look at some of the heavier aluminum that has been punched
with 1/8" holes. You will see one side that is pressed in and the other
side will be coned out like a volcano. If you take a 100 degree
countersink or some of the other rotary deburring tools and cut this
volcano off to the point that there is no aluminum that protrudes above
the base metal you will have a shallow countersink. This shallow
countersink WILL NOT be completely filled by the expansion of a rivet.
This is the stating point of corrosion
5.. We use sand paper to deburr. The sand paper will remove the
volcano with out causing a shallow countersink. Two notes WE PRIME, WE
don't build polished aircraft.
3.. Dimpling / countersinking the sub structure with the same dimple
as the skin.
1.. Easy test, take two small pieces of scrap aluminum and drill
#30 holes, Deburr.
2.. Dimple each with your #30 dimple dies.
3.. Mate the two pieces and you will see that they don't fit very
well. This cause lots of voids and is the primary thing that RV
builders do to cause smoke.
4.. Take those same two pieces of aluminum and dimple them
together using your #30 dimple dies.
i.
Better fit isn't it! They don't rock like a bobble head doll
5.. Point here is that most people don't dimple the substructures
(ribs) to "receive" the overlaying dimple.
6.. We take a small =BD"X 1/2" scrap and attach it to the male
dimple die to dimple all the sub structure. This eliminates the rocking
caused by having two improperly formed dimples pinched together by a
rivet.
7.. I have seen people dimpling with the plastic sill in place,
bad idea.
8.. I have seen people afraid of over dimpling so they hit the
dimplier once instead of twice (real hard). Dimpling is a forming
process that must be complete; a half dimple will cause the skin to
warp, bad idea.
Sorry if this is a little anal, I have spent many years trying to get
the best looking rivets I can. I have piles of scrap that I drill holes
in and look at with a magnifying glass. Rivet and inspect, change the
technique a little here and there then drill and rivet inspect until ,In
my opinion we do some of the finest riveting on RV's. Every airplane we
do get's a little better and a little faster.
Noel Simmons
Blue Sky Aviation, Inc.
www.blueskyaviation.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 9:09 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Smokin Rivets
Now that builders have painted the landscape with why and why not to
drill, then deburr, then dimple vs. deburr, dimple then drill or just
skip it all together and just pop rivet. Let's move the discussion to
the next level. I don't know if any RV-10s that have enough time on
them yet but no one has addressed the cause for them, where they are
likely to occur (so you can be watching), what corrective action can be
taken or more importantly which of the two or three techniques being
used is less likely to contribute to them. We are all prideful of our
selected technique but a lot of builders might find the discussion
enlightening. - not to be confused with Lightning and the need for
static suppression wicks.
Deems, you referenced Dan Checkoway's advise (the self promoted high
guru on Sheetmetal). What say Dan?
Let's hear discussion about tensile vs. shear, wet rivets, use of
reams vs. drill bits, fitment of the rivet to the opening and proper
prep, or rivets in composite. VAN's says "forgetaboutit" cause the
RV-12 is going to skip steps in the effort to find a faster build and
lazy group of builders. How about the advantages and applications of
Icebox rivets, Monel or the common 1100 rivets?
Come on Kelly - let's play. During last night's Pacific NW storm we
were hit by a rash of lightning strikes and smoking rivets all over the
NW (scores of aircraft).
Anyone remember Honest Abe's math on Four Score? We are building the
finest High Speed, IFR cruisers at low cost out there right?
John Cox
#40600
www.aeroelectric.comwww.kitlog.comhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10
-List
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Smokin Rivets |
Smokin RivetsOops!
Please disregard.
Pascal
Do NOT archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Pascal
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Smokin Rivets
----- Original Message -----
From: Noel & Yoshie Simmons
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 12:34 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Smokin Rivets
The anatomy of the smokin' rivet.
What is smoke? The black residue that streams down wind of a rivet
is Aluminum oxide, the second hardest substance on earth with the first
being diamonds. Aluminum oxide is a by product of corrosion that
naturally occurs. Aluminums is considered to be self lubricating,
meaning it will continue to sluff, and the aluminum oxide being harder
than the base metal will exponentially carve more aluminum oxide out of
the base metal,
A rivet that has been properly set will eventually smoke given a
structure subjected to vibration that has been under engineered, meaning
not enough rivets per inch. I have seen, and repaired these structures
(again and again), mostly engine nacelles on jets, fortunately or
unfortunately how every you want to look at the subject, Van's aircraft
does not have any under engineered structures that would qualify for the
under engineered place to look for smoking rivets. Yes all rivet joints
move to one degree or another so a rivet can be set in such a way that
it will smoke. In conclusion smoking rivets on RV is a builder flaw.
How to set rivets that will smoke.
First let us look at the parts that Van's sends us. The Punching
process is extremely actuate, Fin Power CNC punch press have a tolerance
of .004 in 8 linear feet. Van's has CAD people that really know their
system and can tell the punch press exactly where to put holes. Given
the .004 tolerance there are some places on the aircraft that have the
same hole in 4 sheets of aluminum that each have this tolerance so you
will see holes that are a little hard to put a reamer through, but is
still very accurate.
The punching action causes aluminum to "flow". That is the cause of
the volcano on the exit side of the sheet. This flow is not like the
burr created from using a drill bit. You must remove the volcano
completely with out countersinking the base metal.
Below is how to cause voids and entrap, well let's call it 'Stuff'
for lack of better words, which promote the corrosive environment to
create copious amounts of SMOKE.
1.. Use a drill bit instead of a reamer.
1.. Just for giggles take a =BC" drill bit and begin drilling a
hole in a piece of .032 sheet metal. You will see that the hole that
begins to develop is triangular, and as the drill bit finally passes the
hole is not truly round. This is obviously a start of voids in the
rivet joint.
2.. USE a Reamer they turn triangular holes into properly sized
round ones. Reamers should be used everywhere on the van's pre-punched
holes
2.. Don't deburr/ deburr to deeply
1.. The punching process causes a volcano like structure on the
punch exit. Not only will this cause a void but will chip the rim of
the volcano into the joint acting like grist in a roller mill.
2.. The head and or shop head will sit up on the volcano and
will not properly clamp the rivet joint.
3.. Deburring to deeply is a very, very common mistake RV
builder's make due to the punching process.
4.. Look at some of the heavier aluminum that has been punched
with 1/8" holes. You will see one side that is pressed in and the other
side will be coned out like a volcano. If you take a 100 degree
countersink or some of the other rotary deburring tools and cut this
volcano off to the point that there is no aluminum that protrudes above
the base metal you will have a shallow countersink. This shallow
countersink WILL NOT be completely filled by the expansion of a rivet.
This is the stating point of corrosion
5.. We use sand paper to deburr. The sand paper will remove the
volcano with out causing a shallow countersink. Two notes WE PRIME, WE
don't build polished aircraft.
3.. Dimpling / countersinking the sub structure with the same
dimple as the skin.
1.. Easy test, take two small pieces of scrap aluminum and drill
#30 holes, Deburr.
2.. Dimple each with your #30 dimple dies.
3.. Mate the two pieces and you will see that they don't fit
very well. This cause lots of voids and is the primary thing that RV
builders do to cause smoke.
4.. Take those same two pieces of aluminum and dimple them
together using your #30 dimple dies.
i.
Better fit isn't it! They don't rock like a bobble head doll
5.. Point here is that most people don't dimple the
substructures (ribs) to "receive" the overlaying dimple.
6.. We take a small =BD"X 1/2" scrap and attach it to the male
dimple die to dimple all the sub structure. This eliminates the rocking
caused by having two improperly formed dimples pinched together by a
rivet.
7.. I have seen people dimpling with the plastic sill in place,
bad idea.
8.. I have seen people afraid of over dimpling so they hit the
dimplier once instead of twice (real hard). Dimpling is a forming
process that must be complete; a half dimple will cause the skin to
warp, bad idea.
Sorry if this is a little anal, I have spent many years trying to
get the best looking rivets I can. I have piles of scrap that I drill
holes in and look at with a magnifying glass. Rivet and inspect, change
the technique a little here and there then drill and rivet inspect until
,In my opinion we do some of the finest riveting on RV's. Every
airplane we do get's a little better and a little faster.
Noel Simmons
Blue Sky Aviation, Inc.
www.blueskyaviation.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 9:09 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Smokin Rivets
Now that builders have painted the landscape with why and why not to
drill, then deburr, then dimple vs. deburr, dimple then drill or just
skip it all together and just pop rivet. Let's move the discussion to
the next level. I don't know if any RV-10s that have enough time on
them yet but no one has addressed the cause for them, where they are
likely to occur (so you can be watching), what corrective action can be
taken or more importantly which of the two or three techniques being
used is less likely to contribute to them. We are all prideful of our
selected technique but a lot of builders might find the discussion
enlightening. - not to be confused with Lightning and the need for
static suppression wicks.
Deems, you referenced Dan Checkoway's advise (the self promoted high
guru on Sheetmetal). What say Dan?
Let's hear discussion about tensile vs. shear, wet rivets, use of
reams vs. drill bits, fitment of the rivet to the opening and proper
prep, or rivets in composite. VAN's says "forgetaboutit" cause the
RV-12 is going to skip steps in the effort to find a faster build and
lazy group of builders. How about the advantages and applications of
Icebox rivets, Monel or the common 1100 rivets?
Come on Kelly - let's play. During last night's Pacific NW storm we
were hit by a rash of lightning strikes and smoking rivets all over the
NW (scores of aircraft).
Anyone remember Honest Abe's math on Four Score? We are building
the finest High Speed, IFR cruisers at low cost out there right?
John Cox
#40600
www.aeroelectric.comwww.kitlog.comhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10
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| Subject: | Got any Crack (s) ? - More questions |
I have heard instances of cracking around the windows on several planes.
I'm hoping that the procedure that Dave McNeil published will solve that
problem. However, I'm wondering about the joint/seam between the Cabin
cover and the Fuse. Here are 2 dissimilar materials that likely have
different expansion properties.
1, Has anybody noticed/experienced any cracks developing along the
horizontal joint where the cabin cover gets joined/riveted to the
skins/longerons?
2. There is a noticeable gap between the cabin cover and the fuse, what
have people used to fill it? (Micro? Flox? fiberglass?)
3. On the rear seam/joint where the cabin cover joins to the tailcone
upper skin (double rows of rivets). Once again the CS 4-4's need to be
filled. What are folks using and are you 'filling' both rows of rivets?
4. On the above (aft) joint) has anybody done any 'filler' to
smooth/transition the curve between the tailcone and the cabin cover?
5. Has anybody experimented with fiberglass tapes over the rivet seams?
Sorry for so many questions.
Thanks for any feedback
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
Paint Prep
http://deemsrv10.com/
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