Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:14 AM - Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal (Russell Daves)
2. 05:31 AM - Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal (Mark Ritter)
3. 07:32 AM - Re: Battery Cable Length (Larry Rosen)
4. 08:27 AM - Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal (Dave Lammers)
5. 08:40 AM - Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal (James Hein)
6. 08:59 AM - Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal (Mark Ritter)
7. 09:00 AM - Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal (David Maib)
8. 09:31 AM - Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
9. 09:38 AM - Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal (Dave Lammers)
10. 10:02 AM - Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal (William Curtis)
11. 10:05 AM - Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal (Mark Ritter)
12. 10:44 AM - Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal (MauleDriver)
13. 12:41 PM - Re: Access panel oil caning (Ben Westfall)
14. 02:02 PM - Re: Access panel oil caning (William Curtis)
15. 02:13 PM - Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal (John Ackerman)
16. 03:13 PM - Re: Access panel oil caning (David Maib)
17. 03:25 PM - Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal (John W. Cox)
18. 05:31 PM - Tunnel access (Paul Grimstad)
19. 07:45 PM - Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal (jim berry)
20. 08:09 PM - Re: Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal (John W. Cox)
21. 08:10 PM - Damaged Head Screw Removal (Jesse Saint)
22. 08:32 PM - Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal (John Gonzalez)
23. 08:50 PM - REAR SEAT SIDE ANGLE MEASUREMENT OFF????? (John Gonzalez)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal |
I would strongly recommend that the QB tanks be removed and tested for
leaks. I wished I had!!!
In addition, if I had it to do over again I would not have installed the
stall warning as it is a waste of time and does little to help with
stall warning. If you have it set right on the money and can't tell
that you are way too slow you are a really bad pilot. If you have it
set just a little bit high and fly a no power approach with full flaps
it is going to sound off long before your wheels touch down in a full
flare power off landing which can cause some passengers a little
concern. Set a little low it does nothing until after you have already
started recovery from a full stall.
The RV-10 stall with my IO-540 and MT prop is so predictable and
recognizable in level flight that it is hard for me to understand how
any reasonably competent pilot who has put the RV-10 through full flight
testing would ever need the stall warning device.
In addition, unless you round off the edges of the stall warning blade
you WILL catch your shirt on it and bend it which then makes it useless
until the test and re-test where it needs to be bent to get it right on
the money. Ask me how I know!!
Russ Daves
N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06
100+ hours and loving it
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal |
I didn't remove my fuel tanks and have no problems after 90+ hours. I agree
with Russ on leaving the stall warning off. I left if off and installed an
AOA which makes every landing picture perfect. Now if you believe that I
have some ocean front property in Arizona I want to sell you.
Mark
N410MR
>From: "Russell Daves" <dav1111@suddenlink.net>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal
>Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 06:10:01 -0500
>
>I would strongly recommend that the QB tanks be removed and tested for
>leaks. I wished I had!!!
>
>In addition, if I had it to do over again I would not have installed the
>stall warning as it is a waste of time and does little to help with stall
>warning. If you have it set right on the money and can't tell that you are
>way too slow you are a really bad pilot. If you have it set just a little
>bit high and fly a no power approach with full flaps it is going to sound
>off long before your wheels touch down in a full flare power off landing
>which can cause some passengers a little concern. Set a little low it does
>nothing until after you have already started recovery from a full stall.
>
>The RV-10 stall with my IO-540 and MT prop is so predictable and
>recognizable in level flight that it is hard for me to understand how any
>reasonably competent pilot who has put the RV-10 through full flight
>testing would ever need the stall warning device.
>
>In addition, unless you round off the edges of the stall warning blade you
>WILL catch your shirt on it and bend it which then makes it useless until
>the test and re-test where it needs to be bent to get it right on the
>money. Ask me how I know!!
>
>Russ Daves
>N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06
>100+ hours and loving it
_________________________________________________________________
Mortgage refinance is Hot. *Terms. Get a 5.375%* fix rate. Check savings
https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h2bbb&disc=y&vers=925&s=4056&p=5117
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Battery Cable Length |
I just pulled my fat wire.
It runs on the left side of the fuselage:
* through the outermost lighting hole at the empennage / fuselage
connection,
* through a hole inboard of the outboard most lightning hole between
the seats and the baggage compartment (this puts the wire between
the 1st and second seat rib)
* then through a hole in the outermost seat rib,
* through the bottom hole (rear seat and floor board),
* through two new holes towards the bottom of the vertical wing spar
channel
* then a straight shot through the firewall (the hole in the
firewall is in the location Vans specifies).
The wire length from the fuselage / empennage connection to the firewall
is 10 feet +/- 1 inch. Then add another foot from the firewall to the
starter contactor and 3-4 feet to the master contactor would give +/- 15
feet.
I would recommend running a weed wacker string through your wire routing
prior to ordering the battery wire, or order extra length.
Larry Rosen
#356
<http://lrosen.nerv10.com
> How about a couple of measurements on the lengths of all #2 wires?
> That would be very helpful.
>
>
>
>
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal |
Hi "MauleDriver",
The plans have you remove at least the left tank for the installation of
the stall warning sensor switch. All else can be done with the tank
installed, unless of course the balloon leak test discovers a leak, then
the tank might need to be removed to locate the leak. Here is what I
would do if I were doing it again:
First, I would leak test with the tanks installed. If no leaks are
found, I would install the quantity sensors and fittings, inspect for
proper torque of the screws, and be done with the tanks, i.e.: no removal.
Secondly, the plans location of the stall warn sensor and necessity to
install an access panel is nonsense. It has been stated on this forum
before that the access panel is poorly located due to the curvature of
the wing. If you install per plans, it will oil-can. I added 3/4 x 3/4
stiffener angles and of course the longitudinal one(s) need to have the
web fluted to give the flange the proper curvature. All quite easy to
do but time consuming. However after it is all done, access to the
sensor switch (the purpose of the panel in the first place) is difficult
for all but the longest, skinniest arms with full swivel joints at the
wrists, etc. Some have opted to, or advised to, leave out the stall
horn. This is my third homebuilt aircraft and the first with any sort
of stall or AOA sensor of any kind. I thought seriously about leaving
it out. However, I plan on letting others use this aircraft. In the
event (heaven forbid) of a serious accident, I can just hear the lawyers
talking about the irresponsibility of leaving out a safety warning
device that was in the plans and recommended by the manufacturer. (It's
a real shame frivolous lawsuits have modified responsible and reasonable
behavior-but so be it).
Any way, so what would I do?
I would transfer the location of the stall warning pilot holes to near
the next to outboard rib and mount the stall warning switch on the
outboard side of that rib. This allows easy access to the switch for
maintenance through the removed wing tip. (Some will argue that the
flow is different outside the flap area-true-but that is the reason for
access-to make the fine tune adjustments).
Advantages of this entire approach:
No tank removal (if they pass leak test)
Easy access to stall warn switch.
No cutting into the wing for an access panel.
Lots of time saved for meaningful construction (or flying).
Regards,
Dave Lammers
RV-6 flying
RV-10 coming along
MauleDriver wrote:
>
> I'm starting work on my QB wings and trying to think through whether I
> should remove the tanks to inspect, install the senders, test for
> leaks, ease access for other parts, etc. Any comments?
>
> I started removing one and immediately ran into some problems with the
> a few screws not coming out easily. That alone may be a good reason
> to remove, inspect, and re-install.
>
> Thanks for comments.
>
>
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal |
>access panel is poorly located due to the curvature of the wing. If
you install per plans, it will oil-can.
I put the access panels in BOTH leading edges, since I am also using
them for access to the Safeair ER tank fuel lines, and transfer pumps.
Installing them per plans resulted in no oil canning whatsoever.
Obviously your experience is different, but I wouldn't say that they
*will* oil can, just that they might.
As always, your mileage may vary...
-Jim 40384
Dave Lammers wrote:
>
> Hi "MauleDriver",
>
> The plans have you remove at least the left tank for the installation
> of the stall warning sensor switch. All else can be done with the
> tank installed, unless of course the balloon leak test discovers a
> leak, then the tank might need to be removed to locate the leak. Here
> is what I would do if I were doing it again:
>
> First, I would leak test with the tanks installed. If no leaks are
> found, I would install the quantity sensors and fittings, inspect for
> proper torque of the screws, and be done with the tanks, i.e.: no
> removal.
>
> Secondly, the plans location of the stall warn sensor and necessity to
> install an access panel is nonsense. It has been stated on this forum
> before that the access panel is poorly located due to the curvature of
> the wing. If you install per plans, it will oil-can. I added 3/4 x
> 3/4 stiffener angles and of course the longitudinal one(s) need to
> have the web fluted to give the flange the proper curvature. All
> quite easy to do but time consuming. However after it is all done,
> access to the sensor switch (the purpose of the panel in the first
> place) is difficult for all but the longest, skinniest arms with full
> swivel joints at the wrists, etc. Some have opted to, or advised to,
> leave out the stall horn. This is my third homebuilt aircraft and the
> first with any sort of stall or AOA sensor of any kind. I thought
> seriously about leaving it out. However, I plan on letting others use
> this aircraft. In the event (heaven forbid) of a serious accident, I
> can just hear the lawyers talking about the irresponsibility of
> leaving out a safety warning device that was in the plans and
> recommended by the manufacturer. (It's a real shame frivolous
> lawsuits have modified responsible and reasonable behavior-but so be it).
> Any way, so what would I do?
> I would transfer the location of the stall warning pilot holes to near
> the next to outboard rib and mount the stall warning switch on the
> outboard side of that rib. This allows easy access to the switch for
> maintenance through the removed wing tip. (Some will argue that the
> flow is different outside the flap area-true-but that is the reason
> for access-to make the fine tune adjustments).
> Advantages of this entire approach:
> No tank removal (if they pass leak test)
> Easy access to stall warn switch.
> No cutting into the wing for an access panel.
> Lots of time saved for meaningful construction (or flying).
>
> Regards,
> Dave Lammers
> RV-6 flying
> RV-10 coming along
>
>
> MauleDriver wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm starting work on my QB wings and trying to think through whether
>> I should remove the tanks to inspect, install the senders, test for
>> leaks, ease access for other parts, etc. Any comments?
>>
>> I started removing one and immediately ran into some problems with
>> the a few screws not coming out easily. That alone may be a good
>> reason to remove, inspect, and re-install.
>>
>> Thanks for comments.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal |
Dave,
Do you think a fully functioning AOA instrument is a good safety warning
device and an alternative to the stall warning device supplied by Vans that
would avoid a lawsuit?
When approaching a stall in my RV-10 a nice lady inside my AOA reminds me
"angle-angle-push- push".
Mark
N410MR
>From: Dave Lammers <davelammers@mchsi.com>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal
>Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 10:27:55 -0500
>
>
>Hi "MauleDriver",
>
>The plans have you remove at least the left tank for the installation of
>the stall warning sensor switch. All else can be done with the tank
>installed, unless of course the balloon leak test discovers a leak, then
>the tank might need to be removed to locate the leak. Here is what I would
>do if I were doing it again:
>
>First, I would leak test with the tanks installed. If no leaks are found,
>I would install the quantity sensors and fittings, inspect for proper
>torque of the screws, and be done with the tanks, i.e.: no removal.
>
>Secondly, the plans location of the stall warn sensor and necessity to
>install an access panel is nonsense. It has been stated on this forum
>before that the access panel is poorly located due to the curvature of the
>wing. If you install per plans, it will oil-can. I added 3/4 x 3/4
>stiffener angles and of course the longitudinal one(s) need to have the web
>fluted to give the flange the proper curvature. All quite easy to do but
>time consuming. However after it is all done, access to the sensor switch
>(the purpose of the panel in the first place) is difficult for all but the
>longest, skinniest arms with full swivel joints at the wrists, etc. Some
>have opted to, or advised to, leave out the stall horn. This is my third
>homebuilt aircraft and the first with any sort of stall or AOA sensor of
>any kind. I thought seriously about leaving it out. However, I plan on
>letting others use this aircraft. In the event (heaven forbid) of a
>serious accident, I can just hear the lawyers talking about the
>irresponsibility of leaving out a safety warning device that was in the
>plans and recommended by the manufacturer. (It's a real shame frivolous
>lawsuits have modified responsible and reasonable behavior-but so be it).
>Any way, so what would I do?
>I would transfer the location of the stall warning pilot holes to near the
>next to outboard rib and mount the stall warning switch on the outboard
>side of that rib. This allows easy access to the switch for maintenance
>through the removed wing tip. (Some will argue that the flow is different
>outside the flap area-true-but that is the reason for access-to make the
>fine tune adjustments).
>Advantages of this entire approach:
>No tank removal (if they pass leak test)
>Easy access to stall warn switch.
>No cutting into the wing for an access panel.
>Lots of time saved for meaningful construction (or flying).
>
>Regards,
>Dave Lammers
>RV-6 flying
>RV-10 coming along
>
>
>MauleDriver wrote:
>
>>
>>I'm starting work on my QB wings and trying to think through whether I
>>should remove the tanks to inspect, install the senders, test for leaks,
>>ease access for other parts, etc. Any comments?
>>
>>I started removing one and immediately ran into some problems with the a
>>few screws not coming out easily. That alone may be a good reason to
>>remove, inspect, and re-install.
>>
>>Thanks for comments.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag3
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal |
James,
I am glad to hear you say that, because I have installed the access
panels in both wings for ER tank plumbing and pump access, too.
David Maib
40559
wings
do not archive
On Apr 8, 2007, at 10:40 AM, James Hein wrote:
>access panel is poorly located due to the curvature of the wing.
If you install per plans, it will oil-can.
I put the access panels in BOTH leading edges, since I am also using
them for access to the Safeair ER tank fuel lines, and transfer
pumps. Installing them per plans resulted in no oil canning
whatsoever. Obviously your experience is different, but I wouldn't
say that they *will* oil can, just that they might.
As always, your mileage may vary...
-Jim 40384
Dave Lammers wrote:
>
> Hi "MauleDriver",
>
> The plans have you remove at least the left tank for the
> installation of the stall warning sensor switch. All else can be
> done with the tank installed, unless of course the balloon leak
> test discovers a leak, then the tank might need to be removed to
> locate the leak. Here is what I would do if I were doing it again:
>
> First, I would leak test with the tanks installed. If no leaks are
> found, I would install the quantity sensors and fittings, inspect
> for proper torque of the screws, and be done with the tanks, i.e.:
> no removal.
>
> Secondly, the plans location of the stall warn sensor and necessity
> to install an access panel is nonsense. It has been stated on this
> forum before that the access panel is poorly located due to the
> curvature of the wing. If you install per plans, it will oil-can.
> I added 3/4 x 3/4 stiffener angles and of course the longitudinal
> one(s) need to have the web fluted to give the flange the proper
> curvature. All quite easy to do but time consuming. However after
> it is all done, access to the sensor switch (the purpose of the
> panel in the first place) is difficult for all but the longest,
> skinniest arms with full swivel joints at the wrists, etc. Some
> have opted to, or advised to, leave out the stall horn. This is my
> third homebuilt aircraft and the first with any sort of stall or
> AOA sensor of any kind. I thought seriously about leaving it out.
> However, I plan on letting others use this aircraft. In the event
> (heaven forbid) of a serious accident, I can just hear the lawyers
> talking about the irresponsibility of leaving out a safety warning
> device that was in the plans and recommended by the manufacturer.
> (It's a real shame frivolous lawsuits have modified responsible and
> reasonable behavior-but so be it).
> Any way, so what would I do?
> I would transfer the location of the stall warning pilot holes to
> near the next to outboard rib and mount the stall warning switch on
> the outboard side of that rib. This allows easy access to the
> switch for maintenance through the removed wing tip. (Some will
> argue that the flow is different outside the flap area-true-but
> that is the reason for access-to make the fine tune adjustments).
> Advantages of this entire approach:
> No tank removal (if they pass leak test)
> Easy access to stall warn switch.
> No cutting into the wing for an access panel.
> Lots of time saved for meaningful construction (or flying).
>
> Regards,
> Dave Lammers
> RV-6 flying
> RV-10 coming along
>
>
> MauleDriver wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm starting work on my QB wings and trying to think through
>> whether I should remove the tanks to inspect, install the senders,
>> test for leaks, ease access for other parts, etc. Any comments?
>>
>> I started removing one and immediately ran into some problems with
>> the a few screws not coming out easily. That alone may be a good
>> reason to remove, inspect, and re-install.
>>
>> Thanks for comments.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal |
I'm with Mark on this, and I also put a couple of rivets in those holes and installed
an AoA. Considering all the big and military planes don't have a little
tab out there and rely on AoA sensors I would classify this as an improvement
over manufacturers design. Using differential pressure or a flying vane is
much more accurate way to determine an impending stall and compensates for a
myrid of environmental factors.
My 2 cents
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Limbo
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Ritter
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal
Dave,
Do you think a fully functioning AOA instrument is a good safety warning
device and an alternative to the stall warning device supplied by Vans that
would avoid a lawsuit?
When approaching a stall in my RV-10 a nice lady inside my AOA reminds me
"angle-angle-push- push".
Mark
N410MR
>From: Dave Lammers <davelammers@mchsi.com>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal
>Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 10:27:55 -0500
>
>
>Hi "MauleDriver",
>
>The plans have you remove at least the left tank for the installation of
>the stall warning sensor switch. All else can be done with the tank
>installed, unless of course the balloon leak test discovers a leak, then
>the tank might need to be removed to locate the leak. Here is what I would
>do if I were doing it again:
>
>First, I would leak test with the tanks installed. If no leaks are found,
>I would install the quantity sensors and fittings, inspect for proper
>torque of the screws, and be done with the tanks, i.e.: no removal.
>
>Secondly, the plans location of the stall warn sensor and necessity to
>install an access panel is nonsense. It has been stated on this forum
>before that the access panel is poorly located due to the curvature of the
>wing. If you install per plans, it will oil-can. I added 3/4 x 3/4
>stiffener angles and of course the longitudinal one(s) need to have the web
>fluted to give the flange the proper curvature. All quite easy to do but
>time consuming. However after it is all done, access to the sensor switch
>(the purpose of the panel in the first place) is difficult for all but the
>longest, skinniest arms with full swivel joints at the wrists, etc. Some
>have opted to, or advised to, leave out the stall horn. This is my third
>homebuilt aircraft and the first with any sort of stall or AOA sensor of
>any kind. I thought seriously about leaving it out. However, I plan on
>letting others use this aircraft. In the event (heaven forbid) of a
>serious accident, I can just hear the lawyers talking about the
>irresponsibility of leaving out a safety warning device that was in the
>plans and recommended by the manufacturer. (It's a real shame frivolous
>lawsuits have modified responsible and reasonable behavior-but so be it).
>Any way, so what would I do?
>I would transfer the location of the stall warning pilot holes to near the
>next to outboard rib and mount the stall warning switch on the outboard
>side of that rib. This allows easy access to the switch for maintenance
>through the removed wing tip. (Some will argue that the flow is different
>outside the flap area-true-but that is the reason for access-to make the
>fine tune adjustments).
>Advantages of this entire approach:
>No tank removal (if they pass leak test)
>Easy access to stall warn switch.
>No cutting into the wing for an access panel.
>Lots of time saved for meaningful construction (or flying).
>
>Regards,
>Dave Lammers
>RV-6 flying
>RV-10 coming along
>
>
>MauleDriver wrote:
>
>>
>>I'm starting work on my QB wings and trying to think through whether I
>>should remove the tanks to inspect, install the senders, test for leaks,
>>ease access for other parts, etc. Any comments?
>>
>>I started removing one and immediately ran into some problems with the a
>>few screws not coming out easily. That alone may be a good reason to
>>remove, inspect, and re-install.
>>
>>Thanks for comments.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag3
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal |
Mark,
Great question, but when you added the modifier "that would avoid a
lawsuit" you made any answer conjecture at best.
Before the modifier was added, I would argue in the affirmative.
You would certainly need to prove that your substitute is as good or
better than what the kit manufacturer recommended.
Difficult at best with any random group of pilots, let alone a group of
folks who haven't a clue of what this is all about.
Regards,
Dave Lammers
Mark Ritter wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> Do you think a fully functioning AOA instrument is a good safety
> warning device and an alternative to the stall warning device supplied
> by Vans that would avoid a lawsuit?
>
> When approaching a stall in my RV-10 a nice lady inside my AOA reminds
> me "angle-angle-push- push".
>
> Mark
> N410MR
>
>
>> From: Dave Lammers <davelammers@mchsi.com>
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal
>> Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 10:27:55 -0500
>>
>>
>> Hi "MauleDriver",
>>
>> The plans have you remove at least the left tank for the installation
>> of the stall warning sensor switch. All else can be done with the
>> tank installed, unless of course the balloon leak test discovers a
>> leak, then the tank might need to be removed to locate the leak.
>> Here is what I would do if I were doing it again:
>>
>> First, I would leak test with the tanks installed. If no leaks are
>> found, I would install the quantity sensors and fittings, inspect for
>> proper torque of the screws, and be done with the tanks, i.e.: no
>> removal.
>>
>> Secondly, the plans location of the stall warn sensor and necessity
>> to install an access panel is nonsense. It has been stated on this
>> forum before that the access panel is poorly located due to the
>> curvature of the wing. If you install per plans, it will oil-can. I
>> added 3/4 x 3/4 stiffener angles and of course the longitudinal
>> one(s) need to have the web fluted to give the flange the proper
>> curvature. All quite easy to do but time consuming. However after
>> it is all done, access to the sensor switch (the purpose of the panel
>> in the first place) is difficult for all but the longest, skinniest
>> arms with full swivel joints at the wrists, etc. Some have opted to,
>> or advised to, leave out the stall horn. This is my third homebuilt
>> aircraft and the first with any sort of stall or AOA sensor of any
>> kind. I thought seriously about leaving it out. However, I plan on
>> letting others use this aircraft. In the event (heaven forbid) of a
>> serious accident, I can just hear the lawyers talking about the
>> irresponsibility of leaving out a safety warning device that was in
>> the plans and recommended by the manufacturer. (It's a real shame
>> frivolous lawsuits have modified responsible and reasonable
>> behavior-but so be it).
>> Any way, so what would I do?
>> I would transfer the location of the stall warning pilot holes to
>> near the next to outboard rib and mount the stall warning switch on
>> the outboard side of that rib. This allows easy access to the switch
>> for maintenance through the removed wing tip. (Some will argue that
>> the flow is different outside the flap area-true-but that is the
>> reason for access-to make the fine tune adjustments).
>> Advantages of this entire approach:
>> No tank removal (if they pass leak test)
>> Easy access to stall warn switch.
>> No cutting into the wing for an access panel.
>> Lots of time saved for meaningful construction (or flying).
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dave Lammers
>> RV-6 flying
>> RV-10 coming along
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> MauleDriver wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I'm starting work on my QB wings and trying to think through whether
>>> I should remove the tanks to inspect, install the senders, test for
>>> leaks, ease access for other parts, etc. Any comments?
>>>
>>> I started removing one and immediately ran into some problems with
>>> the a few screws not coming out easily. That alone may be a good
>>> reason to remove, inspect, and re-install.
>>>
>>> Thanks for comments.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
> http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag3
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Text inserted by Panda Platinum 2005 Internet Security:
>
> This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited
> mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it:
> http://127.0.0.1:6083/Panda?ID=pav_45729&SPAM=true
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal |
Dave,
Looking at your signature, I see you are not flying yet. I don't recall any message
from flying RV-10 owners that there was oil canning of this access panels.
Where did you here this? I don't think they would oil can any more than
the un-reinforced 0.025 wing skins to which they are attached. Just curious since
I have access panels in both wings and they did not require any unusual methods
to get them in good and tight in the standard location. Also access to
the stall warning mechanism and the aux fuel fittings was fine from the access
panel in the standard location. Your 3/4 X 3/4 stiffeners while definitely
making the area stronger, may be another case of solving a problem that does not
exist.
Even if I did not add the stock Van's stall warning, I would still install the
access panel so you can install it at a later date, should you or the next owner
change their minds.
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/07Wings/wings45.html
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
-------- Original Message --------
>
> Hi "MauleDriver",
>
>
> Secondly, the plans location of the stall warn sensor and necessity to
> install an access panel is nonsense. It has been stated on this forum
> before that the access panel is poorly located due to the curvature of
> the wing. If you install per plans, it will oil-can. I added 3/4 x 3/4
> stiffener angles and of course the longitudinal one(s) need to have the
> web fluted to give the flange the proper curvature. All quite easy to
> do but time consuming. However after it is all done, access to the
> sensor switch (the purpose of the panel in the first place) is difficult
> for all but the longest, skinniest arms with full swivel joints at the
> wrists, etc.
>
> Regards,
> Dave Lammers
> RV-6 flying
> RV-10 coming along
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal |
Dave,
Even with a factory installed stall warning the trial lawyers will find
another hundred or so reasons why the builder caused the accident.
Mark
>From: Dave Lammers <davelammers@mchsi.com>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal
>Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 11:39:19 -0500
>
>Mark,
>Great question, but when you added the modifier "that would avoid a
>lawsuit" you made any answer conjecture at best.
>Before the modifier was added, I would argue in the affirmative.
>You would certainly need to prove that your substitute is as good or better
>than what the kit manufacturer recommended.
>Difficult at best with any random group of pilots, let alone a group of
>folks who haven't a clue of what this is all about.
>Regards,
>Dave Lammers
>
>Mark Ritter wrote:
>
>>
>>Dave,
>>
>>Do you think a fully functioning AOA instrument is a good safety warning
>>device and an alternative to the stall warning device supplied by Vans
>>that would avoid a lawsuit?
>>
>>When approaching a stall in my RV-10 a nice lady inside my AOA reminds me
>>"angle-angle-push- push".
>>
>>Mark
>>N410MR
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: Dave Lammers <davelammers@mchsi.com>
>>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal
>>>Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 10:27:55 -0500
>>>
>>>
>>>Hi "MauleDriver",
>>>
>>>The plans have you remove at least the left tank for the installation of
>>>the stall warning sensor switch. All else can be done with the tank
>>>installed, unless of course the balloon leak test discovers a leak, then
>>>the tank might need to be removed to locate the leak. Here is what I
>>>would do if I were doing it again:
>>>
>>>First, I would leak test with the tanks installed. If no leaks are
>>>found, I would install the quantity sensors and fittings, inspect for
>>>proper torque of the screws, and be done with the tanks, i.e.: no
>>>removal.
>>>
>>>Secondly, the plans location of the stall warn sensor and necessity to
>>>install an access panel is nonsense. It has been stated on this forum
>>>before that the access panel is poorly located due to the curvature of
>>>the wing. If you install per plans, it will oil-can. I added 3/4 x 3/4
>>>stiffener angles and of course the longitudinal one(s) need to have the
>>>web fluted to give the flange the proper curvature. All quite easy to do
>>>but time consuming. However after it is all done, access to the sensor
>>>switch (the purpose of the panel in the first place) is difficult for all
>>>but the longest, skinniest arms with full swivel joints at the wrists,
>>>etc. Some have opted to, or advised to, leave out the stall horn. This
>>>is my third homebuilt aircraft and the first with any sort of stall or
>>>AOA sensor of any kind. I thought seriously about leaving it out.
>>>However, I plan on letting others use this aircraft. In the event
>>>(heaven forbid) of a serious accident, I can just hear the lawyers
>>>talking about the irresponsibility of leaving out a safety warning device
>>>that was in the plans and recommended by the manufacturer. (It's a real
>>>shame frivolous lawsuits have modified responsible and reasonable
>>>behavior-but so be it).
>>>Any way, so what would I do?
>>>I would transfer the location of the stall warning pilot holes to near
>>>the next to outboard rib and mount the stall warning switch on the
>>>outboard side of that rib. This allows easy access to the switch for
>>>maintenance through the removed wing tip. (Some will argue that the flow
>>>is different outside the flap area-true-but that is the reason for
>>>access-to make the fine tune adjustments).
>>>Advantages of this entire approach:
>>>No tank removal (if they pass leak test)
>>>Easy access to stall warn switch.
>>>No cutting into the wing for an access panel.
>>>Lots of time saved for meaningful construction (or flying).
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Dave Lammers
>>>RV-6 flying
>>>RV-10 coming along
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>MauleDriver wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>I'm starting work on my QB wings and trying to think through whether I
>>>>should remove the tanks to inspect, install the senders, test for leaks,
>>>>ease access for other parts, etc. Any comments?
>>>>
>>>>I started removing one and immediately ran into some problems with the a
>>>>few screws not coming out easily. That alone may be a good reason to
>>>>remove, inspect, and re-install.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks for comments.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
>>http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag3
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>Text inserted by Panda Platinum 2005 Internet Security:
>>
>>This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail
>>(spam), click on the following link to reclassify it:
>>http://127.0.0.1:6083/Panda?ID=pav_45729&SPAM=true
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
_________________________________________________________________
The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian.
http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal |
Well, it looks like I'm going to remove both of them - perhaps the right
for no particular reason. However, the fact that a couple of screws
aren't coming out, I'm glad I'm finding that out now when it's
relatively easy to fix.
These are my first stripped screw heads - looks like it's time to drill
and use a screw extractor of some sort on at least one of them. I've
never done this before. Looking at an extractor in Spruce's catalog.
What are any of you using?
David Maib wrote:
>
> I had problems with a few of the screws not wanting to come out, too.
> Twisted the head off of one of them. The plans said to remove the
> tanks, so I did. Have installed the senders, repaired a dent that I
> put in one leading edge, leak checked, and they are now ready to go
> back on. However, it is a little easier to finish the stall warning
> system, wiring, pitot system, etc. with the tanks off. I am also
> installing SafeAir1 extended range tanks, so the main tanks have to be
> off for that reason.
>
> David Maib
> 40559
> wings
>
> do not archive
>
> On Apr 7, 2007, at 10:41 PM, MauleDriver wrote:
>
>
> I'm starting work on my QB wings and trying to think through whether I
> should remove the tanks to inspect, install the senders, test for
> leaks, ease access for other parts, etc. Any comments?
>
> I started removing one and immediately ran into some problems with the
> a few screws not coming out easily. That alone may be a good reason
> to remove, inspect, and re-install.
>
> Thanks for comments.
>
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Access panel oil caning |
I added the access panel and the stall warning device per the plans. Adding
the access panel has created significant oil caning near the panel on my
wing.
I used a hand nibbler to cut out the initial access hole. I am pretty sure
this is what caused the stretching of that is the culprit of the oil
canning. I have not yet added any doublers to prohibit the oil caning but
plan on it.
-Ben Westfall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal
Dave,
Looking at your signature, I see you are not flying yet. I don't recall any
message from flying RV-10 owners that there was oil canning of this access
panels. Where did you here this? I don't think they would oil can any
more than the un-reinforced 0.025 wing skins to which they are attached.
Just curious since I have access panels in both wings and they did not
require any unusual methods to get them in good and tight in the standard
location. Also access to the stall warning mechanism and the aux fuel
fittings was fine from the access panel in the standard location. Your 3/4
X 3/4 stiffeners while definitely making the area stronger, may be another
case of solving a problem that does not exist.
Even if I did not add the stock Van's stall warning, I would still install
the access panel so you can install it at a later date, should you or the
next owner change their minds.
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/07Wings/wings45.html
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Access panel oil caning |
Ben,
Is this a Flying RV-10?
I drilled the holes per instructions and then used a portable jigsaw and my panel
(and sourrounding skin) is nice and tight.
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
-------- Original Message --------
>
> I added the access panel and the stall warning device per the plans. Adding
> the access panel has created significant oil caning near the panel on my
> wing.
>
> I used a hand nibbler to cut out the initial access hole. I am pretty sure
> this is what caused the stretching of that is the culprit of the oil
> canning. I have not yet added any doublers to prohibit the oil caning but
> plan on it.
>
> -Ben Westfall
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis
> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:06 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com; rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal
>
>
> Dave,
>
> Looking at your signature, I see you are not flying yet. I don't recall any
> message from flying RV-10 owners that there was oil canning of this access
> panels. Where did you here this? I don't think they would oil can any
> more than the un-reinforced 0.025 wing skins to which they are attached.
> Just curious since I have access panels in both wings and they did not
> require any unusual methods to get them in good and tight in the standard
> location. Also access to the stall warning mechanism and the aux fuel
> fittings was fine from the access panel in the standard location. Your 3/4
> X 3/4 stiffeners while definitely making the area stronger, may be another
> case of solving a problem that does not exist.
>
> Even if I did not add the stock Van's stall warning, I would still install
> the access panel so you can install it at a later date, should you or the
> next owner change their minds.
>
> http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/07Wings/wings45.html
>
> William
> http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
>
>
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal |
You might try the abrasive stuff like "Screw Grab" sold by, i.a.,
Avery Tools. $6.00 for half an ounce, which should last quite a while.
I'm really amazed what a difference it makes! The various covers in
the fuselage had a lot of stuck, probably overtorqued, screws. I
wrecked a couple and sweated a few more before starting to use Screw
Grab, had no trouble afterward. Our local experts tell me that valve
grinding compound is used for the same purpose, and I vaguely recall
that from years ago. If I'd had some I would have tried it instead.
It may be just me, but there seems to be a big difference in quality
of interchangeable driver tips. I won't buy anything but the ones
Snap On sells, because they work so well for me. Their T-handle
ratcheting screwdriver is also a big favorite.
Seems like most folks have a favorite stuck fastener release fluid,
like WD-40, LPS-3 or whatever. The screws in my kit don't ever seem
corroded, but if I start having trouble I'll use that stuff on all
the screws that remain to be removed .
John Ackerman 40458 QB fuse.
On Apr 8, 2007, at 10:43 AM, MauleDriver wrote:
>
> Well, it looks like I'm going to remove both of them - perhaps the
> right for no particular reason. However, the fact that a couple of
> screws aren't coming out, I'm glad I'm finding that out now when
> it's relatively easy to fix.
>
> These are my first stripped screw heads - looks like it's time to
> drill and use a screw extractor of some sort on at least one of
> them. I've never done this before. Looking at an extractor in
> Spruce's catalog. What are any of you using?
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Access panel oil caning |
I drilled the holes per the instructions and then used a mini die
grinder with a cutting wheel. They seem firm and no apparent oil
canning at this stage. I will keep my fingers crossed and hope I have
no oil canning in flight. I think Tim Olson put some stiffeners in
his due to oil canning problems. I don't know if that was prior to
flying his airplane or not.
David Maib
40559
wings
do not archive
On Apr 8, 2007, at 4:05 PM, William Curtis wrote:
Ben,
Is this a Flying RV-10?
I drilled the holes per instructions and then used a portable jigsaw
and my panel (and sourrounding skin) is nice and tight.
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
-------- Original Message --------
>
> I added the access panel and the stall warning device per the
> plans. Adding
> the access panel has created significant oil caning near the panel
> on my
> wing.
>
> I used a hand nibbler to cut out the initial access hole. I am
> pretty sure
> this is what caused the stretching of that is the culprit of the oil
> canning. I have not yet added any doublers to prohibit the oil
> caning but
> plan on it.
>
> -Ben Westfall
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
> Curtis
> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:06 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com; rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal
>
>
> Dave,
>
> Looking at your signature, I see you are not flying yet. I don't
> recall any
> message from flying RV-10 owners that there was oil canning of this
> access
> panels. Where did you here this? I don't think they would oil
> can any
> more than the un-reinforced 0.025 wing skins to which they are
> attached.
> Just curious since I have access panels in both wings and they did not
> require any unusual methods to get them in good and tight in the
> standard
> location. Also access to the stall warning mechanism and the aux fuel
> fittings was fine from the access panel in the standard location.
> Your 3/4
> X 3/4 stiffeners while definitely making the area stronger, may be
> another
> case of solving a problem that does not exist.
>
> Even if I did not add the stock Van's stall warning, I would still
> install
> the access panel so you can install it at a later date, should you
> or the
> next owner change their minds.
>
> http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/07Wings/wings45.html
>
> William
> http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
>
>
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal |
Lapping compound "Clover" is used by Machine shops to set valves. We
use it in the airline industry to remove overtorqued fasteners. One
drop on the head. It is water soluble too.
John
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Ackerman
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal
You might try the abrasive stuff like "Screw Grab" sold by, i.a., Avery
Tools. $6.00 for half an ounce, which should last quite a while.
I'm really amazed what a difference it makes! The various covers in the
fuselage had a lot of stuck, probably overtorqued, screws. I wrecked a
couple and sweated a few more before starting to use Screw Grab, had no
trouble afterward. Our local experts tell me that valve grinding
compound is used for the same purpose, and I vaguely recall that from
years ago. If I'd had some I would have tried it instead.
It may be just me, but there seems to be a big difference in quality of
interchangeable driver tips. I won't buy anything but the ones Snap On
sells, because they work so well for me. Their T-handle ratcheting
screwdriver is also a big favorite.
Seems like most folks have a favorite stuck fastener release fluid, like
WD-40, LPS-3 or whatever. The screws in my kit don't ever seem corroded,
but if I start having trouble I'll use that stuff on all the screws that
remain to be removed .
John Ackerman 40458 QB fuse.
On Apr 8, 2007, at 10:43 AM, MauleDriver wrote:
Well, it looks like I'm going to remove both of them - perhaps the right
for no particular reason. However, the fact that a couple of screws
aren't coming out, I'm glad I'm finding that out now when it's
relatively easy to fix.
These are my first stripped screw heads - looks like it's time to drill
and use a screw extractor of some sort on at least one of them. I've
never done this before. Looking at an extractor in Spruce's catalog.
What are any of you using?
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Gary
I was considering access panels on the sides of the tunnel.
I contacted Van's about the option and they said: "What do you want that
for, you can remove the tunnel cover?"
I am planning for a molded dash / console and wanted to be able to
service the tunnel without removing seats and other trim.
Are you planning something like this?
Has anyone put access panels on the sides of the tunnel?
I called Van's with concerns about compromise of the structural panels.
Paul Grimstad
RV10 40450
Portland, Or.
do not archive
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal |
For removing stuck fasteners start with a drop of lapping compound and a good screwdriver,
like a Klein available in the Electrical dept. at Home Depot. Cheaper
and easier to find than Snap-On. If that doesn't work get a set of Alden Drillout
Extractors, also from Home Depot. These were recommended in Light Plane
Maintenance a while back, and they are amazing. When I follow the Alden instructions,
their extractors have never failed to work.
Jim Berry
40482 Finishing
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105806#105806
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal |
When negligence in the use of the dull screwdriver or too little down
force, we resort to a #30 drill bit and then apply a Snap-On 1/8"
extractor. The truck comes four times a week with a lifetime
replacement policy. We keep a second extractor in our tool box, and set
the other one for replacement.
That said, it takes about 100 screw heads to wear out the Snap-On. With
practice you can tell quickly that you are about to strip the head.
Sharp edges on the Phillips and the correct point size make a big
difference.
For many builders, these techniques will not be needed till down the
road when corrosion seals the threads or the head. Most GA hardware is
stripped by using the wrong tip size or not paying attention.
A teaspoon of lapping compound and a little water in a plastic bottle go
a LONG way.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim berry
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 7:45 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal
For removing stuck fasteners start with a drop of lapping compound and a
good screwdriver, like a Klein available in the Electrical dept. at Home
Depot. Cheaper and easier to find than Snap-On. If that doesn't work get
a set of Alden Drillout Extractors, also from Home Depot. These were
recommended in Light Plane Maintenance a while back, and they are
amazing. When I follow the Alden instructions, their extractors have
never failed to work.
Jim Berry
40482 Finishing
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105806#105806
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Damaged Head Screw Removal |
I decided to change the name of the thread to bring it onto the new topic.
I have had good success with "Easy Outs" that can be purchased at ?most?
hardware stores. Just chuck them up in a drill, put it on reverse, and
pull the trigger very slowly (a good cordless drill with great speed
control is a plus here). It works very well and takes almost no time at
all. It beats the socks off drilling IMHO.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
352-427-0285
MauleDriver wrote:
>
> Well, it looks like I'm going to remove both of them - perhaps the right
> for no particular reason. However, the fact that a couple of screws
> aren't coming out, I'm glad I'm finding that out now when it's
> relatively easy to fix.
>
> These are my first stripped screw heads - looks like it's time to drill
> and use a screw extractor of some sort on at least one of them. I've
> never done this before. Looking at an extractor in Spruce's catalog.
> What are any of you using?
>
>
> David Maib wrote:
>>
>> I had problems with a few of the screws not wanting to come out, too.
>> Twisted the head off of one of them. The plans said to remove the
>> tanks, so I did. Have installed the senders, repaired a dent that I
>> put in one leading edge, leak checked, and they are now ready to go
>> back on. However, it is a little easier to finish the stall warning
>> system, wiring, pitot system, etc. with the tanks off. I am also
>> installing SafeAir1 extended range tanks, so the main tanks have to be
>> off for that reason.
>>
>> David Maib
>> 40559
>> wings
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>> On Apr 7, 2007, at 10:41 PM, MauleDriver wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'm starting work on my QB wings and trying to think through whether I
>> should remove the tanks to inspect, install the senders, test for
>> leaks, ease access for other parts, etc. Any comments?
>>
>> I started removing one and immediately ran into some problems with the
>> a few screws not coming out easily. That alone may be a good reason
>> to remove, inspect, and re-install.
>>
>> Thanks for comments.
>>
>
>
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal |
I THINK YOU ARE MISUNDERSTING WHAT SHE IS TELLING YOU...SHE IS SIMPLY SAYING
YOU ARE A SQUARE TYPE OF GUY. tHE PUSH , PUSH PART IS BETTER LEFT OFFLINE.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
>From: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509@msn.com>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal
>Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 10:58:56 -0500
>
>
>Dave,
>
>Do you think a fully functioning AOA instrument is a good safety warning
>device and an alternative to the stall warning device supplied by Vans that
>would avoid a lawsuit?
>
>When approaching a stall in my RV-10 a nice lady inside my AOA reminds me
>"angle-angle-push- push".
>
>Mark
>N410MR
>
>
>>From: Dave Lammers <davelammers@mchsi.com>
>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal
>>Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 10:27:55 -0500
>>
>>
>>Hi "MauleDriver",
>>
>>The plans have you remove at least the left tank for the installation of
>>the stall warning sensor switch. All else can be done with the tank
>>installed, unless of course the balloon leak test discovers a leak, then
>>the tank might need to be removed to locate the leak. Here is what I
>>would do if I were doing it again:
>>
>>First, I would leak test with the tanks installed. If no leaks are found,
>>I would install the quantity sensors and fittings, inspect for proper
>>torque of the screws, and be done with the tanks, i.e.: no removal.
>>
>>Secondly, the plans location of the stall warn sensor and necessity to
>>install an access panel is nonsense. It has been stated on this forum
>>before that the access panel is poorly located due to the curvature of the
>>wing. If you install per plans, it will oil-can. I added 3/4 x 3/4
>>stiffener angles and of course the longitudinal one(s) need to have the
>>web fluted to give the flange the proper curvature. All quite easy to do
>>but time consuming. However after it is all done, access to the sensor
>>switch (the purpose of the panel in the first place) is difficult for all
>>but the longest, skinniest arms with full swivel joints at the wrists,
>>etc. Some have opted to, or advised to, leave out the stall horn. This
>>is my third homebuilt aircraft and the first with any sort of stall or AOA
>>sensor of any kind. I thought seriously about leaving it out. However, I
>>plan on letting others use this aircraft. In the event (heaven forbid) of
>>a serious accident, I can just hear the lawyers talking about the
>>irresponsibility of leaving out a safety warning device that was in the
>>plans and recommended by the manufacturer. (It's a real shame frivolous
>>lawsuits have modified responsible and reasonable behavior-but so be it).
>>Any way, so what would I do?
>>I would transfer the location of the stall warning pilot holes to near the
>>next to outboard rib and mount the stall warning switch on the outboard
>>side of that rib. This allows easy access to the switch for maintenance
>>through the removed wing tip. (Some will argue that the flow is different
>>outside the flap area-true-but that is the reason for access-to make the
>>fine tune adjustments).
>>Advantages of this entire approach:
>>No tank removal (if they pass leak test)
>>Easy access to stall warn switch.
>>No cutting into the wing for an access panel.
>>Lots of time saved for meaningful construction (or flying).
>>
>>Regards,
>>Dave Lammers
>>RV-6 flying
>>RV-10 coming along
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>MauleDriver wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>I'm starting work on my QB wings and trying to think through whether I
>>>should remove the tanks to inspect, install the senders, test for leaks,
>>>ease access for other parts, etc. Any comments?
>>>
>>>I started removing one and immediately ran into some problems with the a
>>>few screws not coming out easily. That alone may be a good reason to
>>>remove, inspect, and re-install.
>>>
>>>Thanks for comments.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
>http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag3
>
>
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | REAR SEAT SIDE ANGLE MEASUREMENT OFF????? |
Did anyone else notice that when you cut the 3/4 X 3/4 angle stock for the
rear side supports that the measurement of 26 3/8" leaves the angles about
1/8" above the top of the aluminum vertical seat backs. Just want to know
whether to leave this long or cut it flush with the bend over portion of the
seat. Seams like that would be something that brusses a hip or arm while
leaning over to get into the back from the cabin. Is it there to support a
corner in fabric or something?????
JOhn
Do Not archive
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|