Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:50 AM - Re: Re: Engine Mount Question (Phillips, Jack)
2. 03:52 AM - Re: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength? (Michael Wellenzohn)
3. 05:11 AM - Re: LoPresti Boom Beams for RV-10 (Jim & Julie Wade)
4. 05:40 AM - Re: Re: Engine Mount Question (Jesse Saint)
5. 06:18 AM - Re: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength? (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
6. 06:24 AM - Re: Re: LoPresti Boom Beams for RV-10 (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
7. 06:50 AM - Re: Re: LoPresti Boom Beams for RV-10 (larryrosen@comcast.net)
8. 07:02 AM - EFIS ()
9. 07:06 AM - Re: Re: Builder Numbers (Albert Gardner)
10. 07:10 AM - Re: Re: LoPresti Boom Beams for RV-10 (Tim Olson)
11. 07:50 AM - Re: Re: Engine Mount Question (Phillips, Jack)
12. 07:51 AM - Re: Re: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength? (John W. Cox)
13. 08:10 AM - Re: Inside of cabin top. (Rick)
14. 08:16 AM - Re: Rosen Visors (Rick)
15. 08:31 AM - Re: EFIS Bewilderment (Rob Kermanj)
16. 10:15 AM - RG-58au/cu RG-400u (bruce breckenridge)
17. 11:00 AM - Re: EFIS Bewilderment (John Gonzalez)
18. 12:03 PM - Re: RG-58au/cu RG-400u (Jesse Saint)
19. 12:14 PM - Re: RG-58au/cu RG-400u (Tim Olson)
20. 01:19 PM - Re: RG-58au/cu RG-400u (SteinAir, Inc.)
21. 03:03 PM - Re: Inside of cabin top. (ddddsp1@juno.com)
22. 07:17 PM - Re: Inside of cabin top. (zackrv8)
23. 09:41 PM - Re: Re: Inside of cabin top. (John Gonzalez)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Mount Question |
A question along the same line...
I've seen many times on this list that we need the small mounting ears
on an (I)O-540 to fit the Van's mount. Can anyone tell me the diameter
of the holes on the small mounting ears? I've got a O-540-A1D5 from an
Aztec, that I assumed to have the large mounting ears. I then bought a
set of mounting ears on ebay that were described as the small hole ears.
When I received them, I found them to have the same size hole as the
ones I already have on the engine (I believe the diameter is about
1.40"). What is the correct hole size to fit the RV-10 mounts?
Jack Phillips
#40610
Tailcone
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jim@CombsFive.Com
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: Re: RV10-List: Engine Mount Question
Ahhh.....
Thanks, I had not considered the different angles.
I will get the different engine mounts.
Thanks, Jim C
_________________________________________________
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| Subject: | Re: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength? |
Wow, thanks for all your replys. Lets see if I can get the KITPLANE magazine here
in CH.
Best Regards from Switzerland
Michael (who has quit his job to go full time building)
--------
RV-10 builder (wings)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108832#108832
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: LoPresti Boom Beams for RV-10 |
Our plane was displayed at LoPresti. They installed the lights on Monday before
S&F. There is no way to describe the difference they make. You can run them
full time with little power drain and 5000 hour bulb life. They will be offering
them on the website soon. They did not want to advertize them until they had
some installed. They are also looking at making a new cowl for the RV-10. These
lites make a lot more since than to chop up theleading edge to install HID
lights. The kit will come with everything to install the lights.
Blue Skies
Jim & Julie
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108845#108845
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Mount Question |
The large holes are 2" in diameter, so it appears that you now have 2 sets
of the right mounts. How much did you pay on Ebay and do they have a yellow
tag or some other verification that they are good?
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillips, Jack
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 6:49 AM
Subject: RE: Re: RV10-List: Engine Mount Question
<Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
A question along the same line...
I've seen many times on this list that we need the small mounting ears
on an (I)O-540 to fit the Van's mount. Can anyone tell me the diameter
of the holes on the small mounting ears? I've got a O-540-A1D5 from an
Aztec, that I assumed to have the large mounting ears. I then bought a
set of mounting ears on ebay that were described as the small hole ears.
When I received them, I found them to have the same size hole as the
ones I already have on the engine (I believe the diameter is about
1.40"). What is the correct hole size to fit the RV-10 mounts?
Jack Phillips
#40610
Tailcone
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jim@CombsFive.Com
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: Re: RV10-List: Engine Mount Question
Ahhh.....
Thanks, I had not considered the different angles.
I will get the different engine mounts.
Thanks, Jim C
_________________________________________________
Message 5
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| Subject: | Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength? |
Darn it John, use small words and keep it monosyllabic for Jesse would ya. HA!
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 9:00 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength?
Aaaaah, he's back.... Welcome back, John. The list has been so (read easy to
understand/follow) without you.
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
352-427-0285
-----Original Message-----
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Sent: 4/23/2007 8:58 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength?
I am suffering from "Echo Bruises". Ever heard a never-ending echo
until the Doppler effect reminds you it is the same chatter just
rehashed and will eventually subside with time.
Oh, how I long for effective archives.
Over? I mean Aye?
Okay... What are "Echo Bruises"? They are the phenomena that good
instructors and great pilot examiner experiences when after a few years,
a new applicant for instructor sends a student who then becomes a second
generation student (pursuing instructor) who then sends you a third
generation applicant some time later. The individual from the third
generation uses the exact same answer to same or similar question from
three generations or more prior. Very little learning took place,
everything was rote learning. Bad habits are reinforced and worse with
each generation of new applicant you think you are losing it (Your
mind). The examiner has to go back to work with new questions or learn
to adapt the review during licensing to a higher level of learning. You
conclude it was poor examination technique from the Examiner (yourself)
with both the first and second generation check ride which led to the
ROTE student applicants.
If each student would regularly question (that's healthy), find their
answer from two separate qualified sources and then understand the
underlying principles - their learning would become invaluable for their
entire lifetime. Hence, safer pilots, safer planes and lower rates for
"Builder Interruptus types". Each generation would move farther down
the path towards true wisdom. This is no reflection on builders in the
#500 or #600 series. I was just feeling familiar bruises from
conversations Long Ago as a pilot examiner. Attorneys advise... Just
give a YES or a NO and don't expound.
Few here want extemporaneous discussion. Now on to my typical rant.
Metallic additive in lacquer, enamel and poly paint is aluminum flake,
it comes in various sizes. Aluminum is a metallic material. Metallic
materials do not improve RF signal propagation except in the ground
plane. In pearl, it is another beast altogether. Carbon fiber in either
canopy construction, wingtips or fairings impedes RF signal propagation.
Metallic paint or a poor ground plane do the same things - negatively
influence the signal.
Now Mr. Sausen are you all happy? I am dreaming of OSH and those cold
beers I owe to last year's group.
Mr. Wellenzohn, your question is excellent and should not discourage the
use of metallics, something that was done to a close friend down in
Phoenix. Just properly tackle RF signal propagation techniques.
Kitplanes (the mag) has done some good work on the subject and it is
available in their archives. Most builders couldn't even explain how
their ELT antennae will work in a typical crash. Now is that learning?
John #600
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 8:42 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength?
<rvbuilder@sausen.net>
That has got to be the shortest answer I have ever seen from John! You
feeling ok? Got me a little worried! :-D
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 10:16 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength?
YES.
John Cox
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Wellenzohn
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 12:45 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength?
<rv-10@wellenzohn.net>
Hope that hasn't been discussed before.
Does a metallic paint influence the signal strength reception for the
VOR in the wing tips (Bob Archer antenna) in a negative way?
Thanks
Michael
--------
RV-10 builder (wings)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108576#108576
[truncated by sender]
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: LoPresti Boom Beams for RV-10 |
You have to love it when a company with the history and experience of LoPresti
jumps into the RV-10 fray. Any pictures of the install? Don Wentz (Duckworks)
makes an excellent product but alternatives are always a good thing.
Michael
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim & Julie Wade
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 7:10 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: LoPresti Boom Beams for RV-10
Our plane was displayed at LoPresti. They installed the lights on Monday before
S&F. There is no way to describe the difference they make. You can run them
full time with little power drain and 5000 hour bulb life. They will be offering
them on the website soon. They did not want to advertize them until they had
some installed. They are also looking at making a new cowl for the RV-10. These
lites make a lot more since than to chop up theleading edge to install HID
lights. The kit will come with everything to install the lights.
Blue Skies
Jim & Julie
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108845#108845
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: LoPresti Boom Beams for RV-10 |
Earlier LoPresti was planning on providing a whole new wing tip incorporating HID
lights. When they evaluated the tip on the 10 they could only make a marginal
improvement (maybe 1 knot), and they could not justify the price they would
need to charge for the modified tip. So to get there lights to work you cut
out the lens area and insert there modified lens.
Jim & Julie, you have one beautiful airplane.
Mike, I can send you some photos this evening when I get home from work.
Larry Rosen
#356
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
> <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
>
> You have to love it when a company with the history and experience of LoPresti
> jumps into the RV-10 fray. Any pictures of the install? Don Wentz (Duckworks)
> makes an excellent product but alternatives are always a good thing.
>
> Michael
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim & Julie Wade
> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 7:10 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: LoPresti Boom Beams for RV-10
>
> <jwade@msdeltawireless.com>
>
> Our plane was displayed at LoPresti. They installed the lights on Monday before
> S&F. There is no way to describe the difference they make. You can run them
> full time with little power drain and 5000 hour bulb life. They will be offering
> them on the website soon. They did not want to advertize them until they had
> some installed. They are also looking at making a new cowl for the RV-10. These
> lites make a lot more since than to chop up theleading edge to install HID
> lights. The kit will come with everything to install the lights.
> Blue Skies
> Jim & Julie
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108845#108845
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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"I'm just beginning to understand what "fully integrated" means"
But remember that everybody's marketing department has a different
definition of "fully integrated" . . .
In response to Rick: "Having Cessna, Piper, Cirrus, Columbia, Diamond,
Mooney, etc all behind
Garmin", note that Cirrus is an Avidyne customer, not Garmin.
Garmin has a big advantage known as "incredible piles of cash", too . .
.
TDT
Tim Dawson-Townsend
Aurora Flight Sciences
tdt@aurora.aero
617-401-2522
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Builder Numbers |
Here is a pic when it was being installed. At the edges I just folded about
1/2" of material back under and glued it down.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
-----Original Message-----
Albert,
So what does your headliner treatment look like? Maybe Deems can post some
photos on his site.
Larry Rosen
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: LoPresti Boom Beams for RV-10 |
Eeeeek, FIBERGLASS work! :)
That definitely is impressive that LoPresti is willing to dig into
the RV-10 market. Would love to see them do even more items for
the 10.
As far as the lights go, while it's totally awesome to have another
option, I should point out that while it's mentally very stressful
thinking about cutting the leading edge of the wing, it's actually
a very simple process and has been kind of a "standard" for RV's
for a while....so it's not like the Duckworks thing is now a bad
option. I think it's great that we finally have 2 really good
options. The mini round wingtip lights just were never destined
for greatness. Now you have a choice....do you like to cut
aluminum and rivet, or do you like to cut fiberglass and sand?
Makes it great for choices!
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
larryrosen@comcast.net wrote:
>
> Earlier LoPresti was planning on providing a whole new wing tip
> incorporating HID lights. When they evaluated the tip on the 10 they
> could only make a marginal improvement (maybe 1 knot), and they could
> not justify the price they would need to charge for the modified tip.
> So to get there lights to work you cut out the lens area and insert
> there modified lens.
>
> Jim & Julie, you have one beautiful airplane.
>
> Mike, I can send you some photos this evening when I get home from
> work.
>
> Larry Rosen #356
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Mount Question |
I paid $237 for the set. There is no paperwork with them, but the parts
look good. If I were to use them, I would probably run a dye-penetrant
inspection on them to make sure they were not cracked. Before I sell
them I need to verify the diameter of the holes, since I'm running off
of memory.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 5:39 AM
Subject: RE: Re: RV10-List: Engine Mount Question
The large holes are 2" in diameter, so it appears that you now have 2
sets of the right mounts. How much did you pay on Ebay and do they have
a yellow tag or some other verification that they are good?
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillips,
Jack
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 6:49 AM
Subject: RE: Re: RV10-List: Engine Mount Question
<Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
A question along the same line...
I've seen many times on this list that we need the small mounting ears
on an (I)O-540 to fit the Van's mount. Can anyone tell me the diameter
of the holes on the small mounting ears? I've got a O-540-A1D5 from an
Aztec, that I assumed to have the large mounting ears. I then bought a
set of mounting ears on ebay that were described as the small hole ears.
When I received them, I found them to have the same size hole as the
ones I already have on the engine (I believe the diameter is about
1.40"). What is the correct hole size to fit the RV-10 mounts?
Jack Phillips
#40610
Tailcone
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jim@CombsFive.Com
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: Re: RV10-List: Engine Mount Question
Ahhh.....
Thanks, I had not considered the different angles.
I will get the different engine mounts.
Thanks, Jim C
_________________________________________________
_________________________________________________
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength? |
They have an excellent website. The subscription is probably better
than an electronic version but you will have to ask others.
Occasionally the topics are a little off the mark but most of the
articles will hit a "Wow that was a great article this edition".
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Wellenzohn
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 3:53 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength?
<rv-10@wellenzohn.net>
Wow, thanks for all your replys. Lets see if I can get the KITPLANE
magazine here in CH.
Best Regards from Switzerland
Michael (who has quit his job to go full time building)
--------
RV-10 builder (wings)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108832#108832
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Inside of cabin top. |
I have the Accuracy Avionics overhead also. I am in the process of molding a new
part that will be bonded to the access panel to allow my O2 system outlets to
be mounted there...I am using the 4 IP Mountain High system which does not require
needle valves to set altitude pressure, of course the outrageous price
I paid for Rosen visors can't compare to what I spent on the O2 system,door latches,leather
interior, suede looking paint, new engine and of course the avionics....If
I could only figure out a way to make these things out of waffle board
and aluminum tubing I could have saved a bunch of money on these overpriced,
overweight luxury items ;)
Rick S.
40185
Budget? We don't need no stinking budget!!
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Rosen Visors |
Of course the Beverly Hill Billy's had this cool truck, it did have some trick
sun visors on it though...made from corrugated tin and a broom handle...you know,
the stuff you were stuck with before you could buy that new fangled waffle
board and aluminum tubing :)
Rick S.
40185
do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: EFIS Bewilderment |
I cannot stand it and must get into the EFIS discussion!
I agree with the comments so far that there is not one perfect EFIS
solution. However, for the budget minded guys, GRT seems to be a
good bang for the buck and somewhat ahead of everyone else in terms
of features and maturity in the same price category. This is not to
say that in couple of months others will not catch up.
I have a pair of GRTs, TT IIVSGV and a Garmin 530 and offer the
following comments for the specific questions that John has asked:
> 1. What is the one thing you have discovered about your system
> that is an
> absolute joy
When coupled to TT IIVSGV, I am able to fly heading, preselect
altitude and fly Vectors as directed by the controllers. As soon as
the localizer is detected by GRT, it will automatically couple the
autopilot to the localizer and the glide-slope and fly the approach.
I have found this to be GRT's best feature for IFR flying and I am
sure other units such as Chelton do the same.
You asked for one but I am going to give you two: Weather display is
the other thing. I can zoom out 1000 NM and see what may be behind a
weather system. This, I will never give up and the subscription
costs less than cable TV.
Wait, I give you another one: Garmin 530 (not to discredit other
GPS', this is the only IFR GPS I have flown). It is made to do
approches. Any GPS will get you from A to B. This one really shines
in the approach phase. When coupled to TT IIVSGV, it flies the full
approach including the procedure turns and the holds. You just sit
there and watch it go around and around.
But please, let's not into the pros and cons of hand flying verses
auto pilot flying.
> and makes you thank the gods of panel design that you bought
> what you did (or for that matter, was the reason you did buy what
> you did);
Price. I don't thank god for what I bought but ask him for the
reason he did not give the courage to spend more money and get a
Chelton.
> 2. Now that you are flying, what is the one thing that you have
> found that
> you do not like about your system, either because something is
> lacking or
> because the implementation could have been better.
Pushing buttons with the GRT is a real pain especially since there is
no dedicated Direct-To button. There are a total of five buttons you
must push in addition to inputing the airport ID for this function.
GRT told me at Sun & Fun that they will have a better way to do the
Direct-To function, so at least this may not be an issue in the future.
Do not archive
On Apr 23, 2007, at 1:31 PM, John Jessen wrote:
>
> Yes, it may be too broad a topic for this list to get into in
> detail, but it
> might be possible for those who are flying and have flown their
> systems IFR
> to do the following:
>
> 1. What is the one thing you have discovered about your system
> that is an
> absolute joy and makes you thank the gods of panel design that you
> bought
> what you did (or for that matter, was the reason you did buy what
> you did);
>
> 2. Now that you are flying, what is the one thing that you have
> found that
> you do not like about your system, either because something is
> lacking or
> because the implementation could have been better.
>
> For example, I'm just beginning to understand what "fully
> integrated" means
> and why it might be worthwhile to consider, even though such
> systems are
> rather spendy.
>
> John (in buildus interruptus purgatory) Jessen
> #40328
>
> do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 12:36 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: EFIS Bewilderment
>
>
> Jack,
> Welcome to the agony of the EFIS decision process. ;) I think you
> have a
> mixed-bag in your question. On one hand, there are systems in
> those that
> you listed that definitely have some limitations as to how they
> present info
> or how well they drive autopilots to do approaches, but on the
> other hand, I
> think a majority of them would fly an ILS very nicely.
>
> That said, how well you can display an CDI for flying an ILS is
> just a tiny
> fraction of the many features that you need to compare, and educating
> yourself as to the overall features/advantages/benefits of each
> system can
> be one of the hardest things to do. I will say it again, as I've said
> before....if someone is seriously considering buying an EFIS,
> especially for
> IFR flight, you will do yourself a big favor and the money will be
> well
> spent if you will just take the time to do a demo flight with a flying
> system. Not a demo software app, but a real demo flight, where you
> can push
> buttons and ask questions.
>
> Each of the vendors below has progressed in the past 1-2 years,
> with new
> equipment or new features being added.
> They just keep getting nicer, as we're seeing with the AFS system
> adding
> weather, and the Dynon adding more NAV functions, the GRT's screens
> that are
> soon to come, and more. Finding the right EFIS for you though,
> will still
> be as hard of a decision as ever, as no matter how you slice it, EVERY
> system has a list of negatives that go along with it's list of
> positives.
>
> The subject gets into too much depth to do in one email, and unless
> you're
> asking about one function in particular, it's just going to start a
> flurry
> of "mine is best" emails if you ask the list to tell you what to
> decide. In
> the end, I believe the best way to decide is to read all of the
> feature
> lists, and develop your own feature requirements. Then find a
> match, and
> toss out all the other choices. Once you make it that far, you
> probably
> have a short list, and you should contact people to try to get a
> demo flight
> with the unit. Also, unless you have a lot of trust, buy a unit
> based on
> the feature set that it has at the time you spend your money.
> Often times
> the vendors will pre-sell these features that really don't exist
> for months
> or even years afterwards in production.
>
> Most of the major players in the EFIS market are doing a good job
> at making
> strides in product improvement, and depending on your other radio and
> instrument choices, and your feature requirements, it could be very
> possible
> to meet your goals without totally smashing your budget.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Phillips, Jack wrote:
>> --> <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
>>
>> OK, group. I'm going to expose my ignorance about avionics. I went
>> down to SNF with my primary goal being learning about the various
>> options for EFIS. What I found was a bewildering array of choices at
>> prices ranging from $3,000 to $50,000.
>>
>> Without knowing much about the units and their capabilities, I
>> went to
>> the following vendors, Dynon, Chelton, Avidyne, Grand Rapids
>> Technology (GRT), AFS, and Blue Mountain. I asked each of them to
>> show me how an ILS approach would look on their system. Since I'm
>> instrument rated and learned to fly ILS approaches using convential
>> VOR/GS equipement, I wanted to see how much better the new technology
> would work.
>>
>> What I found was that no one system has everything I want. Except
>> for
>> GRT, every system I looked at either didn't have a suitable demo
>> configured to show an ILS approach (what are they thinking?), or they
>> could do it, but the Localizer just showed as a small pip on the
>> bottom of the screen, with the Glideslope an equally small pip on the
>> side of the screen.
>>
>> When shooting an ILS, all I really want to see in front of me is the
>> localizer and glideslope with big vertical and horizontal lines, with
>> a "doughnut" in the center so I know where the lines should
>> cross. In
>> addition I want airspeed (or AOA), altitude and an artifical horizon.
>> The GRT system did this very well. At around $13,000 for a two panel
>> system it is also at about the upper end of what I can afford to pay
>> (I liked the Chelton and Avidyne systems, but at $31,000 and $50,000
>> respectively, they are out of my price range). I talked with a
>> couple
>> of RV-10 builders at the Van's tent and they mostly seemed to favor
>> either the GRT system or the Dynon.
>>
>> I did like the engine monitor panel that AFS provides, like Van's put
>> on N410RV. I wonder how well it would work to have their engine
>> panel
>> with GRT's EFIS?
>>
>> At the risk of starting a huge thread, I would like to see a
>> discussion of the strong points and weak points of the systems that
>> are in my limited price range, which includes AFS, Dynon, Blue
>> Mountain
> and GRT.
>> Anyone have actual flying experience (including actual instrument
>> approaches) that they would like to share?
>>
>> Jack Phillips
>> #40610
>> Raleigh, NC
>>
>
>
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| Subject: | RG-58au/cu RG-400u |
I've been reading Mr. Nuckolls' publication and viewing some of the websites
of those well ahead of me. I understand that RG-400u is 8x more expensive
and very important in the panel for the sake of interference. I could use
RG-400u out the wings as well for wingtip antennae, but it appears to be an
overkill. IF for some reason I have 2 antennas in one wingtip and want to
run separate coax lines out to them, can I use 2 lines of RG-58au side by
side without some type of interference between them?
Bruce
40018 wings
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: EFIS Bewilderment |
I would like to add something, but have no experience.
As a near future buyer, I have spent a fair amount of time looking at the
web pages. It sure seems that GRT has a really well put together web site
which tell the capabilities of their units. Some confusion exist with
regards to prices and the sport vs. EFIS1, but in all they have put together
a good site.
As for Dynon, they seem to be catching up with GRT capabilities, but from
their web site, I cannot tell what it is that their units actually do.
I am between GRT sport dual monitors or Dynon dual monitors and I just don't
know. Dynon is less $$$ but what of the capabilities????
JOhn G.
Quite confused, yet a lot less confused than I was two weeks ago.
>From: Rob Kermanj <flysrv10@gmail.com>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: EFIS Bewilderment
>Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:29:43 -0400
>
>
>I cannot stand it and must get into the EFIS discussion!
>
>I agree with the comments so far that there is not one perfect EFIS
>solution. However, for the budget minded guys, GRT seems to be a good
>bang for the buck and somewhat ahead of everyone else in terms of features
>and maturity in the same price category. This is not to say that in
>couple of months others will not catch up.
>
>I have a pair of GRTs, TT IIVSGV and a Garmin 530 and offer the following
>comments for the specific questions that John has asked:
>
>>1. What is the one thing you have discovered about your system that is
>>an
>>absolute joy
>
>When coupled to TT IIVSGV, I am able to fly heading, preselect altitude
>and fly Vectors as directed by the controllers. As soon as the localizer
>is detected by GRT, it will automatically couple the autopilot to the
>localizer and the glide-slope and fly the approach. I have found this to
>be GRT's best feature for IFR flying and I am sure other units such as
>Chelton do the same.
>
>You asked for one but I am going to give you two: Weather display is the
>other thing. I can zoom out 1000 NM and see what may be behind a weather
>system. This, I will never give up and the subscription costs less than
>cable TV.
>
>Wait, I give you another one: Garmin 530 (not to discredit other GPS',
>this is the only IFR GPS I have flown). It is made to do approches. Any
>GPS will get you from A to B. This one really shines in the approach
>phase. When coupled to TT IIVSGV, it flies the full approach including
>the procedure turns and the holds. You just sit there and watch it go
>around and around.
>
>But please, let's not into the pros and cons of hand flying verses auto
>pilot flying.
>
>>and makes you thank the gods of panel design that you bought
>>what you did (or for that matter, was the reason you did buy what you
>>did);
>
>Price. I don't thank god for what I bought but ask him for the reason he
>did not give the courage to spend more money and get a Chelton.
>
>>2. Now that you are flying, what is the one thing that you have found
>>that
>>you do not like about your system, either because something is lacking or
>>because the implementation could have been better.
>
>Pushing buttons with the GRT is a real pain especially since there is no
>dedicated Direct-To button. There are a total of five buttons you must
>push in addition to inputing the airport ID for this function.
>
>GRT told me at Sun & Fun that they will have a better way to do the
>Direct-To function, so at least this may not be an issue in the future.
>
>
>Do not archive
>
>
>On Apr 23, 2007, at 1:31 PM, John Jessen wrote:
>
>>
>>Yes, it may be too broad a topic for this list to get into in detail, but
>>it
>>might be possible for those who are flying and have flown their systems
>>IFR
>>to do the following:
>>
>>1. What is the one thing you have discovered about your system that is
>>an
>>absolute joy and makes you thank the gods of panel design that you bought
>>what you did (or for that matter, was the reason you did buy what you
>>did);
>>
>>2. Now that you are flying, what is the one thing that you have found
>>that
>>you do not like about your system, either because something is lacking or
>>because the implementation could have been better.
>>
>>For example, I'm just beginning to understand what "fully integrated"
>>means
>>and why it might be worthwhile to consider, even though such systems are
>>rather spendy.
>>
>>John (in buildus interruptus purgatory) Jessen
>> #40328
>>
>>do not archive
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>>Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 12:36 PM
>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: RV10-List: EFIS Bewilderment
>>
>>
>>Jack,
>>Welcome to the agony of the EFIS decision process. ;) I think you have a
>>mixed-bag in your question. On one hand, there are systems in those that
>>you listed that definitely have some limitations as to how they present
>>info
>>or how well they drive autopilots to do approaches, but on the other
>>hand, I
>>think a majority of them would fly an ILS very nicely.
>>
>>That said, how well you can display an CDI for flying an ILS is just a
>>tiny
>>fraction of the many features that you need to compare, and educating
>>yourself as to the overall features/advantages/benefits of each system
>>can
>>be one of the hardest things to do. I will say it again, as I've said
>>before....if someone is seriously considering buying an EFIS, especially
>>for
>>IFR flight, you will do yourself a big favor and the money will be well
>>spent if you will just take the time to do a demo flight with a flying
>>system. Not a demo software app, but a real demo flight, where you can
>>push
>>buttons and ask questions.
>>
>>Each of the vendors below has progressed in the past 1-2 years, with new
>>equipment or new features being added.
>>They just keep getting nicer, as we're seeing with the AFS system adding
>>weather, and the Dynon adding more NAV functions, the GRT's screens that
>>are
>>soon to come, and more. Finding the right EFIS for you though, will
>>still
>>be as hard of a decision as ever, as no matter how you slice it, EVERY
>>system has a list of negatives that go along with it's list of positives.
>>
>>The subject gets into too much depth to do in one email, and unless
>>you're
>>asking about one function in particular, it's just going to start a
>>flurry
>>of "mine is best" emails if you ask the list to tell you what to decide.
>>In
>>the end, I believe the best way to decide is to read all of the feature
>>lists, and develop your own feature requirements. Then find a match, and
>>toss out all the other choices. Once you make it that far, you probably
>>have a short list, and you should contact people to try to get a demo
>>flight
>>with the unit. Also, unless you have a lot of trust, buy a unit based on
>>the feature set that it has at the time you spend your money. Often
>>times
>>the vendors will pre-sell these features that really don't exist for
>>months
>>or even years afterwards in production.
>>
>>Most of the major players in the EFIS market are doing a good job at
>>making
>>strides in product improvement, and depending on your other radio and
>>instrument choices, and your feature requirements, it could be very
>>possible
>>to meet your goals without totally smashing your budget.
>>
>>Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>>do not archive
>>
>>
>>Phillips, Jack wrote:
>>>--> <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
>>>
>>>OK, group. I'm going to expose my ignorance about avionics. I went
>>>down to SNF with my primary goal being learning about the various
>>>options for EFIS. What I found was a bewildering array of choices at
>>>prices ranging from $3,000 to $50,000.
>>>
>>>Without knowing much about the units and their capabilities, I went to
>>>the following vendors, Dynon, Chelton, Avidyne, Grand Rapids
>>>Technology (GRT), AFS, and Blue Mountain. I asked each of them to
>>>show me how an ILS approach would look on their system. Since I'm
>>>instrument rated and learned to fly ILS approaches using convential
>>>VOR/GS equipement, I wanted to see how much better the new technology
>>would work.
>>>
>>>What I found was that no one system has everything I want. Except for
>>>GRT, every system I looked at either didn't have a suitable demo
>>>configured to show an ILS approach (what are they thinking?), or they
>>>could do it, but the Localizer just showed as a small pip on the
>>>bottom of the screen, with the Glideslope an equally small pip on the
>>>side of the screen.
>>>
>>>When shooting an ILS, all I really want to see in front of me is the
>>>localizer and glideslope with big vertical and horizontal lines, with
>>>a "doughnut" in the center so I know where the lines should cross. In
>>>addition I want airspeed (or AOA), altitude and an artifical horizon.
>>>The GRT system did this very well. At around $13,000 for a two panel
>>>system it is also at about the upper end of what I can afford to pay
>>>(I liked the Chelton and Avidyne systems, but at $31,000 and $50,000
>>>respectively, they are out of my price range). I talked with a couple
>>>of RV-10 builders at the Van's tent and they mostly seemed to favor
>>>either the GRT system or the Dynon.
>>>
>>>I did like the engine monitor panel that AFS provides, like Van's put
>>>on N410RV. I wonder how well it would work to have their engine panel
>>>with GRT's EFIS?
>>>
>>>At the risk of starting a huge thread, I would like to see a
>>>discussion of the strong points and weak points of the systems that
>>>are in my limited price range, which includes AFS, Dynon, Blue Mountain
>>and GRT.
>>>Anyone have actual flying experience (including actual instrument
>>>approaches) that they would like to share?
>>>
>>>Jack Phillips
>>>#40610
>>>Raleigh, NC
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | RG-58au/cu RG-400u |
I am no expert on this, but I imagine it would depend on what the antennas
are for. If one is a NAV antenna that just receives and one is a Marker
Beacon antenna that just receives, I think you should be fine. If one were
a NAV and the other a Transponder, than at least the transponder should be
the good stuff (I think it is standard that at least the transponder
antennae use the good stuff, and the next in line would be the COM's, then
the NAV). Marker Beacon can be the cheaper stuff, but I use the RG-400 for
everything else.
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bruce
breckenridge
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 1:13 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RG-58au/cu RG-400u
I've been reading Mr. Nuckolls' publication and viewing some of the websites
of those well ahead of me. I understand that RG-400u is 8x more expensive
and very important in the panel for the sake of interference. I could use
RG-400u out the wings as well for wingtip antennae, but it appears to be an
overkill. IF for some reason I have 2 antennas in one wingtip and want to
run separate coax lines out to them, can I use 2 lines of RG-58au side by
side without some type of interference between them?
Bruce
40018 wings
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: RG-58au/cu RG-400u |
I would think that would work fine, but unless you actually
want to plan for connectors inline, it's not worth doing it
if your original plan was to run a solid uncut run of RG-400.
A) The connectors add loss
B) The connectors cost $$
So really, if you're going to run a solid run, I'd say just
do it with either one. If you're going to connector it
in the center, well, then that's up to you, but I'd
say that with strobes in the wings, you're just as likely
to get interference in those cables in the wings as you
are under the panel. (That said, the risk of interference
isn't that high anyway).
In the grand scheme, RG-400 is a drop in the bucket of the
airplane though...although a bucket is filled with many little
drops too, depending on how you want to look at it.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
bruce breckenridge wrote:
> I've been reading Mr. Nuckolls' publication and viewing some of the
> websites of those well ahead of me. I understand that RG-400u is 8x
> more expensive and very important in the panel for the sake of
> interference. I could use RG-400u out the wings as well for wingtip
> antennae, but it appears to be an overkill. IF for some reason I have 2
> antennas in one wingtip and want to run separate coax lines out to them,
> can I use 2 lines of RG-58au side by side without some type of
> interference between them?
>
> Bruce
> 40018 wings
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | RG-58au/cu RG-400u |
Well...my take is why mix & match? So you'll save about $50 or so over that
35-50 feet of cable.....in the scheme of your $180K-$250K airplane it's not
much. Why even goof around with the 58 at all? It's not recommended by any
major aircraft manufacturer, nor most avionics shops. Go with the RG400 all
the way and be done with it. Easy decision, and no wondering about
connectors, connections, mixing & matching, etc..
Cheers,
Stein.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 2:14 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: RG-58au/cu RG-400u
>
>
>
>I would think that would work fine, but unless you actually
>want to plan for connectors inline, it's not worth doing it
>if your original plan was to run a solid uncut run of RG-400.
>
>A) The connectors add loss
>B) The connectors cost $$
>
>So really, if you're going to run a solid run, I'd say just
>do it with either one. If you're going to connector it
>in the center, well, then that's up to you, but I'd
>say that with strobes in the wings, you're just as likely
>to get interference in those cables in the wings as you
>are under the panel. (That said, the risk of interference
>isn't that high anyway).
>
>In the grand scheme, RG-400 is a drop in the bucket of the
>airplane though...although a bucket is filled with many little
>drops too, depending on how you want to look at it.
>
>Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>do not archive
>
>
>bruce breckenridge wrote:
>> I've been reading Mr. Nuckolls' publication and viewing some of the
>> websites of those well ahead of me. I understand that RG-400u is 8x
>> more expensive and very important in the panel for the sake of
>> interference. I could use RG-400u out the wings as well for wingtip
>> antennae, but it appears to be an overkill. IF for some reason I have 2
>> antennas in one wingtip and want to run separate coax lines out to them,
>> can I use 2 lines of RG-58au side by side without some type of
>> interference between them?
>>
>> Bruce
>> 40018 wings
>>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Inside of cabin top. |
Misquoted and misunderstood...................:)
Dean
<html><P>Misquoted and misunderstood...................:)</P>
<P> </P>
<P>Dean</P>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Inside of cabin top. |
John,
Here are some ideas from Sun-N-Fun. I took more pics that can be found on Deem's
website under SNF 2007.
Zack
--------
RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109086#109086
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc07478_128.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc07464_134.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc07428_2_105.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc07395_2_142.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc07380_720.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc07359_2_590.jpg
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Inside of cabin top. |
Thanks Zack,
That is a real variety of cool stuff. Gives me some things to think about.
Appreciate it!
JOhn G.
Do Not Archive
>From: "zackrv8" <zackrv8@verizon.net>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: Re: Inside of cabin top.
>Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 19:16:26 -0700
>
>
>John,
>
> Here are some ideas from Sun-N-Fun. I took more pics that can be found
>on Deem's website under SNF 2007.
>
>Zack
>
>--------
>RV8 #80125
>RV10 # 40512
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109086#109086
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc07478_128.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc07464_134.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc07428_2_105.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc07395_2_142.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc07380_720.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc07359_2_590.jpg
>
>
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