Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:32 AM - Composites for the RV-10 (Bill Reining)
2. 03:53 AM - Re: They need an RV10 at Nellis AFB Next Year...They need an RV10 at Nellis AFB Next Year... (Russell Daves)
3. 06:14 AM - Re: Re: Transition Training (cloudvalley@comcast.net)
4. 09:06 AM - Re: Re: Transition Training (Jae Chang)
5. 09:44 AM - Re: Composites for the RV-10 (Jeff Carpenter)
6. 10:37 AM - High Oil Temps (Scott Schmidt)
7. 11:16 AM - Re: High Oil Temps (Deems Davis)
8. 11:40 AM - RV10 Center cabin top brace. (John Gonzalez)
9. 11:57 AM - Re: High Oil Temps (Rick)
10. 11:58 AM - Re: High Oil Temps (Mark Ritter)
11. 12:03 PM - Re: High Oil Temps (Tim Olson)
12. 12:03 PM - Re: RV10 Center cabin top brace. (Rick)
13. 12:10 PM - Traffic at FL60... (Steven Roberts)
14. 12:26 PM - Re: High Oil Temps (pilotdds@aol.com)
15. 12:31 PM - Re: High Oil Temps (Tim Olson)
16. 12:36 PM - Re: High Oil Temps (BPA)
17. 12:40 PM - Re: High Oil Temps (Phillips, Jack)
18. 12:53 PM - Re: High Oil Temps (Scott Schmidt)
19. 12:54 PM - Re: RV10 Center cabin top brace. (David McNeill)
20. 01:04 PM - Re: Traffic at FL60... (John Gonzalez)
21. 01:09 PM - Re: High Oil Temps (Tim Olson)
22. 01:13 PM - Re: Composites for the RV-10 (Jae Chang)
23. 01:16 PM - Re: RV10 Center cabin top brace. (John Gonzalez)
24. 01:19 PM - Re: High Oil Temps (Scott Schmidt)
25. 01:24 PM - Re: High Oil Temps (Bobby J. Hughes)
26. 01:44 PM - Re: High Oil Temps (Tim Olson)
27. 01:52 PM - Re: High Oil Temps (Mark Ritter)
28. 02:10 PM - Re: They need an RV10 at Nellis AFB Next Year...They need an RV10 at Nellis AFB Next Year... (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
29. 03:02 PM - Re: High Oil Temps (Jesse Saint)
30. 04:57 PM - Re: High Oil Temps (Randy DeBauw)
31. 05:41 PM - Re: Traffic at FL60... (Larry Rosen)
32. 07:03 PM - Crossbow AHRS (GenGrumpy@aol.com)
33. 07:18 PM - Re: Traffic at FL60... (linn Walters)
34. 07:29 PM - Re: Traffic at FL60... (linn Walters)
35. 08:03 PM - Re: High Oil Temps (Kelly McMullen)
36. 09:27 PM - Re: They need an RV10 at Nellis AFB Next Year...They need an RV10 at Nellis AFB Next Year... (bob.kaufmann)
37. 10:10 PM - Re: High Oil Temps (KiloPapa)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Composites for the RV-10 |
My son and I just got back from class in Watsonville this weekend. Dave
Saylor and his staff at AirCrafters provided excellent training on all the
RV-10 fiberglass parts, providing both classroom knowledge and lots of
practical hands-on experience. There were two RV-10s under construction in
the hangar (one was Dave's personal RV-10). The second -10's cabin top was
cut to size, sanded and fitted during the weekend. Dave explained in detail
how to trim and fit the doors, windshield, windows, wheel pants and
fairings, and the wingtips and empennage fairings. It sure took the fear
factor out of an area neither of us have had any experience with.
All-in-all, it was a very worthwhile class. Plus, meeting all of our
classmates, each of whom was also a -10 builder, was worth the price of
admission in its own right. This class is highly recommended.
Bill and Jon Reining
40514 - Finished the tailcone Friday, now on to the QB wings.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: They need an RV10 at Nellis AFB Next Year...They need an |
RV10 at Nellis AFB Next Year...
Bob K. and Rick S. will have to twist my arm about as hard as they
twisted it to get a flight in my RV-10 last year to get me to fly into
Nellis AFB for the airshow.
Russ Daves
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Transition Training |
Hello Tim,
We sold the tail kit. Not sure if it was the Vans classified forum that did it,
or if he saw our post here. But we will ask the buyer when he comes to pick
it up. His name is Bob Schaeffer, and he is from Kirkland, WA. I think he may
already be a member of the matrionics group, but I am not sure.
Thanks for your help. Hope to meet you at Oshkosh if we can make it there. We are
going if our house sells in time.
Brian and Ruth Preston
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I'm thinking John and John are trying to paint a gloomy picture because
> they don't want me moving out that way....might spoil the beauty. (j/k!)
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> John W. Cox wrote:
> >
> > Don't forget to tell everyone about the constant RAIN!
> >
> > John Cox
> >
>
>
>
>
<html><body>
<DIV>Hello Tim,</DIV>
<DIV> We sold the tail kit. Not sure if it was the Vans classified forum
that did it, or if he saw our post here. But we will ask the buyer when he
comes to pick it up. His name is Bob Schaeffer, and he is from Kirkland, WA.
I think he may already be a member of the matrionics group, but I am not sure.
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks for your help. Hope to meet you at Oshkosh if we can make it there.
We are going if our house sells in time.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Brian and Ruth Preston</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
ties s
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Transition Training |
Reminds me of one of many many jokes, but the one i remember most...
A woman visits (seattle/portland) for the first time. Of course, it is
raining and raining all day. She asks a kid, "So when does it stop
raining around here?"
Kid says, "How am i supposed to know? I'm only 6 years old."
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> I'm thinking John and John are trying to paint a gloomy picture because
> they don't want me moving out that way....might spoil the beauty. (j/k!)
>
>
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Composites for the RV-10 |
I'll second that...
... and it was nice to meet you and your son.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
Do Not Archive
On Apr 30, 2007, at 12:30 AM, Bill Reining wrote:
> My son and I just got back from class in Watsonville this weekend.
> Dave Saylor and his staff at AirCrafters provided excellent
> training on all the RV-10 fiberglass parts, providing both
> classroom knowledge and lots of practical hands-on experience.
> There were two RV-10s under construction in the hangar (one was
> Dave=92s personal RV-10). The second -10=92s cabin top was cut to
> size, sanded and fitted during the weekend. Dave explained in
> detail how to trim and fit the doors, windshield, windows, wheel
> pants and fairings, and the wingtips and empennage fairings. It
> sure took the fear factor out of an area neither of us have had any
> experience with. All-in-all, it was a very worthwhile class.
> Plus, meeting all of our classmates, each of whom was also a -10
> builder, was worth the price of admission in its own right. This
> class is highly recommended.
>
> Bill and Jon Reining
>
> 40514 - Finished the tailcone Friday, now on to the QB wings.
>
List
> ========================
> ========================
>
Message 6
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Need some advise. On Saturday I loaded up the plane and went to Moab UT for the
day (about an hour flight). We hung out for the day, went to the car show down
there, rented a Jeep and did a couple trials and then headed home.
We left around 8:00pm. The outside air temp was around 74 when we took off. Before
starting my engine the oil temp was 101 F. I took off flew south over Moab,
then down on the Colorado River and began climbing to the north. While climbing
I noticed my oil temps at 220 F. I have never seen them that high and I
was right over the airport so I landed and thought my ducting had fallen off.
I took off the cowl, and everything looked perfect. Thought a bird or something
else might have gone down the ducting and covered the oil cooler but it looked
perfect when I checked that. Tim took my call late at night while he was watching
a movie just so I could have a second head thinking about anything else
I might have missed.
I put the cowling back on and took off by myself and flew around. I really had
to climb slow to get it to 200 F but everything looked normal. So the four of
us loaded up and we were off. I typically climb around 100 to 105. On climb
out the temps went to around 205 and maxed at 210. Once I was at 9500 they
went to 195 to 200 and then seemed to stabilize around 190. These still seem
higher than I have had in the past. I am use to temps around 170 to 180.
I typically just fly with my wife and I and most the flying has been in the winter.
My CHT's and EGT's look the same as they normally did, only my oil temps
have changed. This was the warmest weather I have flown in with 4 people but
I was still climbing at 105 knots. Sure my climb rate may be lower but the cooling
should be the same. All I can think of is the angle of attack with 4 people
changes the cooling rate into the oil cooler.
Do many of you in the south go above 200 F very often? Where does your oil temp
run with 4 people with an OAT of 70 and power settings around 19.5 and 2400?
I will grab a few more test passengers and go do some more work before adding a
larger oil cooler or cooling ducts in the side like others.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: High Oil Temps |
"Scott, I will be very interested in your progress on this issue. I live
in Phoenix, and high temperatures is a fact of life. talking w/ fellows
@ EAA chpt mtgs. reveals that the RV6,7,8" guys all buy the biggest and
most efficient oil cooler they can. I was told of one that was 20% more
efficient than the one that Van's ships, I don't recall it's name/number
but could find out if you need the info. Some have had success mounting
the oil cooler directly behind the #4 cyl on the baffling as opposed to
the firewall. I doubt there's room enough on the -10 for this to work.
Here's a quote from my Lycoming Operators Manual O-540,IO-540 Series:
Section 3 page 3-9 /" Oil temperature: The maximum permissible oil
temperature is 245 deg F (118C). for maximum engine life, desired oil
temperature should be maintained between 165 deg F (73.8C) and 200F
(93.3C) in level flight cruise conditions ".
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
http://deemsrv10.com/
/
Scott Schmidt wrote:
> Need some advise.
> *
> *
Message 8
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| Subject: | RV10 Center cabin top brace. |
I have been trimming the windows and working on the cabin top. By the way,
an electric high speed grinder with #100 grit works well for finalizing the
shape on the windows. It heats up the plexiglass and takes it away all at
the same time. Leave the plastic covering on. Outside air temps, as always
need to be warm.
In section 43 the manual asks you to make aluminum spacers that will house
the four screws that through bolt the center brace to the cabin top. I am
not one that will normally question the plans, but the aluminum
tubes(dowels) I imagine will be bonded into the cabin top and and keep the
center brace from pulling out. Being that there are four, it should be
fairly strong.
What I question however if that there is only so many layers of fiberglass
on the outside of the cabin top and so many on the inside. Between there is
the usual foam sandwich. These aluminum dowels will get there retension my
bonding to both the inside and outside layer of glass, not the foam. The
screw head is really not any large in diameter that the O.D. of the aluminum
dowel, so it will not provide any retension.
Basically, it seems like the cabin top fabricator should have place a
hardpoint(Hardwood) in this area instead of the foam or we should be placing
a steel plate on the outside to keep these dowels from pulling through.
Maybe because there are four it is not a problem, but seeing that they are
all in a one inch square spot, my mind thinks it should be made better.
John G.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: High Oil Temps |
I have the same interest in this as Deems does. At OSH last year John Cox in a
very fatherly and convicted manner told me I would have to deal with this problem
being located in the Southwest, Las Vegas to be exact and similar if not a
bit cooler than Deems in Phoenix. John reminded me that the RV-10 was designed
and tested in Oregon, in obviously cooler temps. Deems has the James cowl so
it will be interesting to see his performance in the cooling department. I have
the stock Van's supplied cooler which will be changed if there is a better
model out there. When Russ Daves was out here last year Bob Kaufmann, John Erickson
and myself were lucky to get some -10 stick time. Russ asked John at one
point to lower the nose to keep the temps down on a few of the touch and goes,
I didn't do any take offs or landings but provided the ballast in the back seat.
Hopefully I will feel better (worked the night shift then off to the airport
early) on his next trip to get some worthwhile stick time short of flying
us to and from the practice area and a few steep turns.
Rick S.
40185
Message 10
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Scott,
Flew to Baja recently with two passengers and about 60 pounds of bags.
OAT's were well into the 70's and lower 80's on climb outs. On climb out
(1,000+ fpm) oil temp would climb to 205. It came down to 185 as soon as I
lowered the nose once reaching cruising altitude.
I generally cruise at 65% - 70% of power for a reference. On hot days (75+)
before I added the louvers on the bottom cowl the oil temp was in the
210-212 range in cruise and 220+ when climbing. With the louvers I'm seeing
185. Even with the louvers I have to reduce power and climb angle on hot
hot days to keep the oil temp below 200. Before adding the louvers my cowl
was extremely hot to the touch and now its just warm. I think having a
larger opening in the bottom of the cowl for the heat to exit helped lower
the oil temp.
Bracing for when it really gets hot here in Texas.
Mark (N410MR)
>From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt@yahoo.com>
>To: RV-10 List <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV10-List: High Oil Temps
>Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:36:30 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Need some advise. On Saturday I loaded up the plane and went to Moab UT
>for the day (about an hour flight). We hung out for the day, went to the
>car show down there, rented a Jeep and did a couple trials and then headed
>home.
>We left around 8:00pm. The outside air temp was around 74 when we took off.
> Before starting my engine the oil temp was 101 F. I took off flew south
>over Moab, then down on the Colorado River and began climbing to the north.
> While climbing I noticed my oil temps at 220 F. I have never seen them
>that high and I was right over the airport so I landed and thought my
>ducting had fallen off.
>I took off the cowl, and everything looked perfect. Thought a bird or
>something else might have gone down the ducting and covered the oil cooler
>but it looked perfect when I checked that. Tim took my call late at night
>while he was watching a movie just so I could have a second head thinking
>about anything else I might have missed.
>I put the cowling back on and took off by myself and flew around. I really
>had to climb slow to get it to 200 F but everything looked normal. So the
>four of us loaded up and we were off. I typically climb around 100 to 105.
> On climb out the temps went to around 205 and maxed at 210. Once I was
>at 9500 they went to 195 to 200 and then seemed to stabilize around 190.
>These still seem higher than I have had in the past. I am use to temps
>around 170 to 180.
>I typically just fly with my wife and I and most the flying has been in the
>winter. My CHT's and EGT's look the same as they normally did, only my oil
>temps have changed. This was the warmest weather I have flown in with 4
>people but I was still climbing at 105 knots. Sure my climb rate may be
>lower but the cooling should be the same. All I can think of is the angle
>of attack with 4 people changes the cooling rate into the oil cooler.
>
>Do many of you in the south go above 200 F very often? Where does your oil
>temp run with 4 people with an OAT of 70 and power settings around 19.5 and
>2400?
>I will grab a few more test passengers and go do some more work before
>adding a larger oil cooler or cooling ducts in the side like others.
>
>Scott Schmidt
>scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: High Oil Temps |
This one will be interesting to follow. It's a tough spot to be in...
not high enough to seriously scare you, but not nearly as low as
normal. Makes it hard to figure out what to do.
For what it's worth, I seem to hold in the 165-180 range in the winters,
and pretty much almost always about 185 in the summers here. But,
I also never saw any alarming oil temps when we were on any of our
trips, even though we did fly on some hot days....some of that was
even in the SouthWest, and NorthWest in the summer, and some was on
extended climbs.
Looking into some of the logs that I downloaded from my EIS,
I do see that on the trip to Oregon, (hot), it looks like my
highest Oil Temp was 197, and that was just a couple of log
entries and then it was back in the 180's. Then looking at
another trip last spring/summer on a hot day (I think that
was the Yellowstone trip), I do see that on one climbout
I hit 208. That same flight stabilized in the low to mid
190's. But, keep in mind from Deem's post that the
recommended specs 165-200 in level flight cruise.....so
if you peak out on climb at something higher but still
well under the 245 degree range, I don't know that I'd worry.
I guess I myself would reduce that limit from 245 to maybe
220 to get an earlier warning, and maybe have my Chelton EIS
limit programmed to go yellow at 200 and red at 220. Just
like the CHT limit is officially 500, but you'd be nuts to
run that high.....so my yellow is 400 and red is 415 or
something like that.
Again though, when I pour over my logs, I don't see anything
that leads me to believe that we have anything to worry
about from a design perspective. The oil temps are usually
towards the middle end of that temp range and I'd pretty
much call them "perfect". I wouldn't want it to run any
cooler, and except for those brief peaks during climbs where
I topped 200, if you look at my x/c line graph, it's almost
never anywhere near 200.
Keep watching it for some flights and see how it goes.
Since you have a Chelton system, I know you can use EGview,
which is FANTASTIC software....download your logs from all
of your flights for a while and you can check out what the
temps were all the time. It's a great tool for just
this type of thing. It also includes a GAMI tool so you
can flow match your injectors and it will analyze to show
you the spread. Good stuff!
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Scott Schmidt wrote:
> Need some advise. On Saturday I loaded up the plane and went to Moab UT
> for the day (about an hour flight). We hung out for the day, went to
> the car show down there, rented a Jeep and did a couple trials and then
> headed home.
> We left around 8:00pm. The outside air temp was around 74 when we took
> off. Before starting my engine the oil temp was 101 F. I took off
> flew south over Moab, then down on the Colorado River and began climbing
> to the north. While climbing I noticed my oil temps at 220 F. I have
> never seen them that high and I was right over the airport so I landed
> and thought my ducting had fallen off.
> I took off the cowl, and everything looked perfect. Thought a bird or
> something else might have gone down the ducting and covered the oil
> cooler but it looked perfect when I checked that. Tim took my call late
> at night while he was watching a movie just so I could have a second
> head thinking about anything else I might have missed.
> I put the cowling back on and took off by myself and flew around. I
> really had to climb slow to get it to 200 F but everything looked
> normal. So the four of us loaded up and we were off. I typically climb
> around 100 to 105. On climb out the temps went to around 205 and maxed
> at 210. Once I was at 9500 they went to 195 to 200 and then seemed to
> stabilize around 190. These still seem higher than I have had in the
> past. I am use to temps around 170 to 180.
> I typically just fly with my wife and I and most the flying has been in
> the winter. My CHT's and EGT's look the same as they normally did, only
> my oil temps have changed. This was the warmest weather I have flown
> in with 4 people but I was still climbing at 105 knots. Sure my climb
> rate may be lower but the cooling should be the same. All I can think
> of is the angle of attack with 4 people changes the cooling rate into
> the oil cooler.
>
> Do many of you in the south go above 200 F very often? Where does your
> oil temp run with 4 people with an OAT of 70 and power settings around
> 19.5 and 2400?
> I will grab a few more test passengers and go do some more work before
> adding a larger oil cooler or cooling ducts in the side like others.
>
>
> Scott Schmidt
>
> scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: RV10 Center cabin top brace. |
John,
When I drilled mine there appears to be some sort of filler material at the attach
point. The shavings from the drill bit looked like wood...not sure if it's
really wood but it is for sure filled with something solid, at least on mine.
Make sure you drill the holes undersized enough to hold the bushings or you will
have fun countersinking the on top. I had to set mine with epoxy to allow
the countersink to cut instead of rotate the bushing...the measurment called out
in the plans cracks me up...I think it's to the 64th of an inch and I had to
trim at least 3/32 maybe a little more off to make them flush with the cabin
inside and out. FWIW, I used my mic to measure and verify the correct length
and these were the most exact bushings for the kit I made to date, and the first
ones I ever had to trim material from :)
Rick S.
40185
Message 13
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| Subject: | Traffic at FL60... |
Off topic again but this is just too cool...
Global Hawk
A pic of the Global Hawk UAV that returned from Iraq on Monday under its
own power. (Iraq to Edwards AFB in CA) - Not transported via C5 or C17.
Notice the mission paintings on the fuselage. It's actually over 250
missions. That's a long way for a remotely-piloted aircraft. Think of
the technology (and the required quality of the data link to fly it
remotely). Not only that but the pilot controlled it from a nice warm
control panel at Edwards AFB. It has really long legs - - -it can stay
up for almost 2 days at altitudes above 60k.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: High Oil Temps |
My temps ran about 175 in the winter.I became alarmed when an oat of 85 and a fully
loaded airplane yielded cruise oil temps of 207.I installed the oil cooler
from airflow systems and saw an 8 degree drop as well as much quicker cooling
when leveling out for cruise.I did accurate side by side testing and saw a noteworthy
improvment.It frequently excedes 100 here in the summer.Intallation
is simple.
-----Original Message-----
From: scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
Sent: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:36 AM
Subject: RV10-List: High Oil Temps
Need some advise. On Saturday I loaded up the plane and went to Moab UT for the
day (about an hour flight). We hung out for the day, went to the car show down
there, rented a Jeep and did a couple trials and then headed home.
We left around 8:00pm. The outside air temp was around 74 when we took off. Before
starting my engine the oil temp was 101 F. I took off flew south over Moab,
then down on the Colorado River and began climbing to the north. While climbing
I noticed my oil temps at 220 F. I have never seen them that high and I
was right over the airport so I landed and thought my ducting had fallen off.
I took off the cowl, and everything looked perfect. Thought a bird or something
else might have gone down the ducting and covered the oil cooler but it looked
perfect when I checked that. Tim took my call late at night while he was watching
a movie just so I could have a second head thinking about anything else
I might have missed.
I put the cowling back on and took off by myself and flew around. I really had
to climb slow to get it to 200 F but everything looked normal. So the four of
us loaded up and we were off. I typically climb around 100 to 105. On climb
out the temps went to around 205 and maxed at 210. Once I was at 9500 they
went to 195 to 200 and then seemed to stabilize around 190. These still seem
higher than I have had in the past. I am use to temps around 170 to 180.
I typically just fly with my wife and I and most the flying has been in the winter.
My CHT's and EGT's look the same as they normally did, only my oil temps
have changed. This was the warmest weather I have flown in with 4 people but
I was still climbing at 105 knots. Sure my climb rate may be lower but the cooling
should be the same. All I can think of is the angle of attack with 4 people
changes the cooling rate into the oil cooler.
Do many of you in the south go above 200 F very often? Where does your oil temp
run with 4 people with an OAT of 70 and power settings around 19.5 and 2400?
I will grab a few more test passengers and go do some more work before adding a
larger oil cooler or cooling ducts in the side like others.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: High Oil Temps |
Before I get jumped, I'd like to add: You guys in the Southwest
and Texas may want to do something to yours, just because you
spend a majority of your time in hot conditions. If you're
someone who only visits those areas, just using good technique
like dropping the nose for a faster climb speed might be
all it will take to keep you happy. I'd caution the more
northerly builder against going too far to cool things unnecessarily
because you do want good warm oil in flight, and if you cool it
too far, you're going to have to make accomodations for when
you fly in your cooler or more normal lower temps. You don't
want your oil temps too low, and from what I see, I
more often come close to the low end of the 165-200 range
than I do the high end. Your mileage will vary depending on
your geography. If I lived in the desert and thought I could
survive there, I would probably increase my oil cooling but
I'd carry a plate or put on adjustable louvres on my cooler...or
maybe even add cowl exit area and then add cowl flaps.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> This one will be interesting to follow. It's a tough spot to be in...
> not high enough to seriously scare you, but not nearly as low as
> normal. Makes it hard to figure out what to do.
>
> For what it's worth, I seem to hold in the 165-180 range in the winters,
> and pretty much almost always about 185 in the summers here. But,
> I also never saw any alarming oil temps when we were on any of our
> trips, even though we did fly on some hot days....some of that was
> even in the SouthWest, and NorthWest in the summer, and some was on
> extended climbs.
>
> Looking into some of the logs that I downloaded from my EIS,
> I do see that on the trip to Oregon, (hot), it looks like my
> highest Oil Temp was 197, and that was just a couple of log
> entries and then it was back in the 180's. Then looking at
> another trip last spring/summer on a hot day (I think that
> was the Yellowstone trip), I do see that on one climbout
> I hit 208. That same flight stabilized in the low to mid
> 190's. But, keep in mind from Deem's post that the
> recommended specs 165-200 in level flight cruise.....so
> if you peak out on climb at something higher but still
> well under the 245 degree range, I don't know that I'd worry.
> I guess I myself would reduce that limit from 245 to maybe
> 220 to get an earlier warning, and maybe have my Chelton EIS
> limit programmed to go yellow at 200 and red at 220. Just
> like the CHT limit is officially 500, but you'd be nuts to
> run that high.....so my yellow is 400 and red is 415 or
> something like that.
>
> Again though, when I pour over my logs, I don't see anything
> that leads me to believe that we have anything to worry
> about from a design perspective. The oil temps are usually
> towards the middle end of that temp range and I'd pretty
> much call them "perfect". I wouldn't want it to run any
> cooler, and except for those brief peaks during climbs where
> I topped 200, if you look at my x/c line graph, it's almost
> never anywhere near 200.
>
> Keep watching it for some flights and see how it goes.
> Since you have a Chelton system, I know you can use EGview,
> which is FANTASTIC software....download your logs from all
> of your flights for a while and you can check out what the
> temps were all the time. It's a great tool for just
> this type of thing. It also includes a GAMI tool so you
> can flow match your injectors and it will analyze to show
> you the spread. Good stuff!
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Scott Schmidt wrote:
>> Need some advise. On Saturday I loaded up the plane and went to Moab
>> UT for the day (about an hour flight). We hung out for the day, went
>> to the car show down there, rented a Jeep and did a couple trials and
>> then headed home.
>> We left around 8:00pm. The outside air temp was around 74 when we took
>> off. Before starting my engine the oil temp was 101 F. I took off
>> flew south over Moab, then down on the Colorado River and began
>> climbing to the north. While climbing I noticed my oil temps at 220
>> F. I have never seen them that high and I was right over the airport
>> so I landed and thought my ducting had fallen off. I took off the
>> cowl, and everything looked perfect. Thought a bird or something else
>> might have gone down the ducting and covered the oil cooler but it
>> looked perfect when I checked that. Tim took my call late at night
>> while he was watching a movie just so I could have a second head
>> thinking about anything else I might have missed. I put the cowling
>> back on and took off by myself and flew around. I really had to climb
>> slow to get it to 200 F but everything looked normal. So the four of
>> us loaded up and we were off. I typically climb around 100 to 105.
>> On climb out the temps went to around 205 and maxed at 210. Once I
>> was at 9500 they went to 195 to 200 and then seemed to stabilize
>> around 190. These still seem higher than I have had in the past. I am
>> use to temps around 170 to 180. I typically just fly with my wife and
>> I and most the flying has been in the winter. My CHT's and EGT's look
>> the same as they normally did, only my oil temps have changed. This
>> was the warmest weather I have flown in with 4 people but I was still
>> climbing at 105 knots. Sure my climb rate may be lower but the
>> cooling should be the same. All I can think of is the angle of attack
>> with 4 people changes the cooling rate into the oil cooler.
>> Do many of you in the south go above 200 F very often? Where does
>> your oil temp run with 4 people with an OAT of 70 and power settings
>> around 19.5 and 2400?
>> I will grab a few more test passengers and go do some more work before
>> adding a larger oil cooler or cooling ducts in the side like others.
>>
>>
>> Scott Schmidt
>>
>> scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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Optimum oil temps at cruise would be 180-190. Granted, winter time in
the middle part of the country, temps are going to be a bit lower. But
in the summer 210 on climb out is not a concern, at least to the engine
AS LONG AS level off or nose down a little, the oil temp drops back down
into the 165-200 range as Deems mentioned. We are a bit more
conservative, well anal, about max oil temps not exceeding 225 on climb
out on our engines.
One of our customers has his SW cooler (sorry, can't remember the P/N)in
his RV-8 tilted to 23 degrees, which for installation is maximum he can.
His reason is that it allows the air to hit the cooler passages at a
greater angle, making it more cool efficient.
Being as I haven't built mine yet(getting closer Deems) this is food for
thought, I have no direct data on cooler placement or angle of the
mounted cooler. We were just discussing this last year at the RV
cookout, when the subject came up.
Allen Barrett
BPE, Inc.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: High Oil Temps
This one will be interesting to follow. It's a tough spot to be in...
not high enough to seriously scare you, but not nearly as low as
normal. Makes it hard to figure out what to do.
For what it's worth, I seem to hold in the 165-180 range in the winters,
and pretty much almost always about 185 in the summers here. But,
I also never saw any alarming oil temps when we were on any of our
trips, even though we did fly on some hot days....some of that was
even in the SouthWest, and NorthWest in the summer, and some was on
extended climbs.
Looking into some of the logs that I downloaded from my EIS,
I do see that on the trip to Oregon, (hot), it looks like my
highest Oil Temp was 197, and that was just a couple of log
entries and then it was back in the 180's. Then looking at
another trip last spring/summer on a hot day (I think that
was the Yellowstone trip), I do see that on one climbout
I hit 208. That same flight stabilized in the low to mid
190's. But, keep in mind from Deem's post that the
recommended specs 165-200 in level flight cruise.....so
if you peak out on climb at something higher but still
well under the 245 degree range, I don't know that I'd worry.
I guess I myself would reduce that limit from 245 to maybe
220 to get an earlier warning, and maybe have my Chelton EIS
limit programmed to go yellow at 200 and red at 220. Just
like the CHT limit is officially 500, but you'd be nuts to
run that high.....so my yellow is 400 and red is 415 or
something like that.
Again though, when I pour over my logs, I don't see anything
that leads me to believe that we have anything to worry
about from a design perspective. The oil temps are usually
towards the middle end of that temp range and I'd pretty
much call them "perfect". I wouldn't want it to run any
cooler, and except for those brief peaks during climbs where
I topped 200, if you look at my x/c line graph, it's almost
never anywhere near 200.
Keep watching it for some flights and see how it goes.
Since you have a Chelton system, I know you can use EGview,
which is FANTASTIC software....download your logs from all
of your flights for a while and you can check out what the
temps were all the time. It's a great tool for just
this type of thing. It also includes a GAMI tool so you
can flow match your injectors and it will analyze to show
you the spread. Good stuff!
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Scott Schmidt wrote:
> Need some advise. On Saturday I loaded up the plane and went to Moab
UT
> for the day (about an hour flight). We hung out for the day, went to
> the car show down there, rented a Jeep and did a couple trials and
then
> headed home.
> We left around 8:00pm. The outside air temp was around 74 when we took
> off. Before starting my engine the oil temp was 101 F. I took off
> flew south over Moab, then down on the Colorado River and began
climbing
> to the north. While climbing I noticed my oil temps at 220 F. I have
> never seen them that high and I was right over the airport so I landed
> and thought my ducting had fallen off.
> I took off the cowl, and everything looked perfect. Thought a bird or
> something else might have gone down the ducting and covered the oil
> cooler but it looked perfect when I checked that. Tim took my call
late
> at night while he was watching a movie just so I could have a second
> head thinking about anything else I might have missed.
> I put the cowling back on and took off by myself and flew around. I
> really had to climb slow to get it to 200 F but everything looked
> normal. So the four of us loaded up and we were off. I typically
climb
> around 100 to 105. On climb out the temps went to around 205 and
maxed
> at 210. Once I was at 9500 they went to 195 to 200 and then seemed to
> stabilize around 190. These still seem higher than I have had in the
> past. I am use to temps around 170 to 180.
> I typically just fly with my wife and I and most the flying has been
in
> the winter. My CHT's and EGT's look the same as they normally did,
only
> my oil temps have changed. This was the warmest weather I have flown
> in with 4 people but I was still climbing at 105 knots. Sure my climb
> rate may be lower but the cooling should be the same. All I can think
> of is the angle of attack with 4 people changes the cooling rate into
> the oil cooler.
>
> Do many of you in the south go above 200 F very often? Where does
your
> oil temp run with 4 people with an OAT of 70 and power settings around
> 19.5 and 2400?
> I will grab a few more test passengers and go do some more work before
> adding a larger oil cooler or cooling ducts in the side like others.
>
>
> Scott Schmidt
>
> scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 17
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Adding some speculation to this thread...
In my RV-4, I can tell to a remarkable degree of accuracy how much oil I
have by watching the oil temp on a hot day. If the oil sump gets just a
little below 6 qts, the oil temp really starts to climb. I normally
keep my oil at 6 quarts (capacity of the O-320 is 8 quarts), but in the
hottest months I try to keep it at 7 quarts just to keep the temps down.
If I put 8 quarts in, I will quickly lose a quart through the breather.
I'm wondering whether it would be useful to have an air-oil separator
and keep the oil at max capacity for better cooling. I have such a
separator on my Pietenpol and since I don't lose any oil through the
breather, the oil consumption on that engine (Continental A65) is
running at about a quart every 25 hours. I'm considering putting an
air-oil separator on the RV-10, but had not considered that it might
help with oil temperature. Helps keep the belly clean, too.
Does anyone have any experience with an RV-10 with an air-oil separator,
and does it still have problems with oil temps?
Jack Phillips
#40610
Tailcone
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: High Oil Temps
This one will be interesting to follow. It's a tough spot to be in...
not high enough to seriously scare you, but not nearly as low as normal.
Makes it hard to figure out what to do.
For what it's worth, I seem to hold in the 165-180 range in the winters,
and pretty much almost always about 185 in the summers here. But, I
also never saw any alarming oil temps when we were on any of our trips,
even though we did fly on some hot days....some of that was even in the
SouthWest, and NorthWest in the summer, and some was on extended climbs.
Looking into some of the logs that I downloaded from my EIS, I do see
that on the trip to Oregon, (hot), it looks like my highest Oil Temp was
197, and that was just a couple of log
entries and then it was back in the 180's. Then looking at
another trip last spring/summer on a hot day (I think that was the
Yellowstone trip), I do see that on one climbout I hit 208. That same
flight stabilized in the low to mid
190's. But, keep in mind from Deem's post that the
recommended specs 165-200 in level flight cruise.....so if you peak out
on climb at something higher but still well under the 245 degree range,
I don't know that I'd worry.
I guess I myself would reduce that limit from 245 to maybe 220 to get an
earlier warning, and maybe have my Chelton EIS
limit programmed to go yellow at 200 and red at 220. Just
like the CHT limit is officially 500, but you'd be nuts to run that
high.....so my yellow is 400 and red is 415 or something like that.
Again though, when I pour over my logs, I don't see anything that leads
me to believe that we have anything to worry about from a design
perspective. The oil temps are usually towards the middle end of that
temp range and I'd pretty much call them "perfect". I wouldn't want it
to run any cooler, and except for those brief peaks during climbs where
I topped 200, if you look at my x/c line graph, it's almost never
anywhere near 200.
Keep watching it for some flights and see how it goes.
Since you have a Chelton system, I know you can use EGview, which is
FANTASTIC software....download your logs from all of your flights for a
while and you can check out what the
temps were all the time. It's a great tool for just
this type of thing. It also includes a GAMI tool so you can flow match
your injectors and it will analyze to show you the spread. Good stuff!
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Scott Schmidt wrote:
> Need some advise. On Saturday I loaded up the plane and went to Moab
> UT for the day (about an hour flight). We hung out for the day, went
> to the car show down there, rented a Jeep and did a couple trials and
> then headed home.
> We left around 8:00pm. The outside air temp was around 74 when we took
> off. Before starting my engine the oil temp was 101 F. I took off
> flew south over Moab, then down on the Colorado River and began
> climbing to the north. While climbing I noticed my oil temps at 220
> F. I have never seen them that high and I was right over the airport
> so I landed and thought my ducting had fallen off.
> I took off the cowl, and everything looked perfect. Thought a bird or
> something else might have gone down the ducting and covered the oil
> cooler but it looked perfect when I checked that. Tim took my call
> late at night while he was watching a movie just so I could have a
> second head thinking about anything else I might have missed.
> I put the cowling back on and took off by myself and flew around. I
> really had to climb slow to get it to 200 F but everything looked
> normal. So the four of us loaded up and we were off. I typically
> climb around 100 to 105. On climb out the temps went to around 205
> and maxed at 210. Once I was at 9500 they went to 195 to 200 and then
> seemed to stabilize around 190. These still seem higher than I have
> had in the past. I am use to temps around 170 to 180.
> I typically just fly with my wife and I and most the flying has been
> in the winter. My CHT's and EGT's look the same as they normally did,
> only my oil temps have changed. This was the warmest weather I have
> flown in with 4 people but I was still climbing at 105 knots. Sure my
> climb rate may be lower but the cooling should be the same. All I can
> think of is the angle of attack with 4 people changes the cooling rate
> into the oil cooler.
>
> Do many of you in the south go above 200 F very often? Where does
> your oil temp run with 4 people with an OAT of 70 and power settings
> around
> 19.5 and 2400?
> I will grab a few more test passengers and go do some more work before
> adding a larger oil cooler or cooling ducts in the side like others.
>
>
> Scott Schmidt
>
> scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
>
> *
>
>
> *
_________________________________________________
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: High Oil Temps |
Mark, do you have any pictures of the louvers you can send me?
If any of you can think about the name of the more efficient oil cooler I would
be interested. It was not that warm out on Saturday and I wasn't too concerned
with 220, it was just much different than I have previously seen.
I can only imagine what would happen here in Utah when temps get to 90+. I will
have add a water injection unit for the oil cooler like the Reno racers have.
I would like to have a system where I rarely see above 200F.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Mark Ritter <mritter509@msn.com>
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 11:57:46 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: High Oil Temps
Scott,
Flew to Baja recently with two passengers and about 60 pounds of bags.
OAT's were well into the 70's and lower 80's on climb outs. On climb out
(1,000+ fpm) oil temp would climb to 205. It came down to 185 as soon as I
lowered the nose once reaching cruising altitude.
I generally cruise at 65% - 70% of power for a reference. On hot days (75+)
before I added the louvers on the bottom cowl the oil temp was in the
210-212 range in cruise and 220+ when climbing. With the louvers I'm seeing
185. Even with the louvers I have to reduce power and climb angle on hot
hot days to keep the oil temp below 200. Before adding the louvers my cowl
was extremely hot to the touch and now its just warm. I think having a
larger opening in the bottom of the cowl for the heat to exit helped lower
the oil temp.
Bracing for when it really gets hot here in Texas.
Mark (N410MR)
>From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt@yahoo.com>
>To: RV-10 List <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV10-List: High Oil Temps
>Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:36:30 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Need some advise. On Saturday I loaded up the plane and went to Moab UT
>for the day (about an hour flight). We hung out for the day, went to the
>car show down there, rented a Jeep and did a couple trials and then headed
>home.
>We left around 8:00pm. The outside air temp was around 74 when we took off.
> Before starting my engine the oil temp was 101 F. I took off flew south
>over Moab, then down on the Colorado River and began climbing to the north.
> While climbing I noticed my oil temps at 220 F. I have never seen them
>that high and I was right over the airport so I landed and thought my
>ducting had fallen off.
>I took off the cowl, and everything looked perfect. Thought a bird or
>something else might have gone down the ducting and covered the oil cooler
>but it looked perfect when I checked that. Tim took my call late at night
>while he was watching a movie just so I could have a second head thinking
>about anything else I might have missed.
>I put the cowling back on and took off by myself and flew around. I really
>had to climb slow to get it to 200 F but everything looked normal. So the
>four of us loaded up and we were off. I typically climb around 100 to 105.
> On climb out the temps went to around 205 and maxed at 210. Once I was
>at 9500 they went to 195 to 200 and then seemed to stabilize around 190.
>These still seem higher than I have had in the past. I am use to temps
>around 170 to 180.
>I typically just fly with my wife and I and most the flying has been in the
>winter. My CHT's and EGT's look the same as they normally did, only my oil
>temps have changed. This was the warmest weather I have flown in with 4
>people but I was still climbing at 105 knots. Sure my climb rate may be
>lower but the cooling should be the same. All I can think of is the angle
>of attack with 4 people changes the cooling rate into the oil cooler.
>
>Do many of you in the south go above 200 F very often? Where does your oil
>temp run with 4 people with an OAT of 70 and power settings around 19.5 and
>2400?
>I will grab a few more test passengers and go do some more work before
>adding a larger oil cooler or cooling ducts in the side like others.
>
>Scott Schmidt
>scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________________
Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
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Message 19
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| Subject: | RV10 Center cabin top brace. |
You can also just clean out the foam and inject a mixture (resin, cabosil
and chopped fibers). Be sure and tape the bottoms of the holes and you will
get a nice solid hard point without aluminum spacers.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 11:40 AM
Subject: RV10-List: RV10 Center cabin top brace.
I have been trimming the windows and working on the cabin top. By the way,
an electric high speed grinder with #100 grit works well for finalizing the
shape on the windows. It heats up the plexiglass and takes it away all at
the same time. Leave the plastic covering on. Outside air temps, as always
need to be warm.
In section 43 the manual asks you to make aluminum spacers that will house
the four screws that through bolt the center brace to the cabin top. I am
not one that will normally question the plans, but the aluminum
tubes(dowels) I imagine will be bonded into the cabin top and and keep the
center brace from pulling out. Being that there are four, it should be
fairly strong.
What I question however if that there is only so many layers of fiberglass
on the outside of the cabin top and so many on the inside. Between there is
the usual foam sandwich. These aluminum dowels will get there retension my
bonding to both the inside and outside layer of glass, not the foam. The
screw head is really not any large in diameter that the O.D. of the aluminum
dowel, so it will not provide any retension.
Basically, it seems like the cabin top fabricator should have place a
hardpoint(Hardwood) in this area instead of the foam or we should be placing
a steel plate on the outside to keep these dowels from pulling through.
Maybe because there are four it is not a problem, but seeing that they are
all in a one inch square spot, my mind thinks it should be made better.
John G.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Traffic at FL60... |
"That's a long way for a remotely-piloted aircraft. Think of the
technology (and the
required quality of the data link to fly it remotely). "
I know a retired 747 captain that said eventually the pilot inside a
commercial airliner would be housed inside a glass tube with a little
sticker on the outside which reads "Break glass in the event of an
emergency"
Do Not Archive
>From: "Steven Roberts" <swrpilot@bellsouth.net>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV10-List: Traffic at FL60...
>Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 15:09:12 -0400
>
>
> Off topic again but this is just too cool...
>
>
>Global Hawk
>
>
>A pic of the Global Hawk UAV that returned from Iraq on Monday under its
>own power. (Iraq to Edwards AFB in CA) - Not transported via C5 or C17.
>Notice the mission paintings on the fuselage. It's actually over 250
>missions. That's a long way for a remotely-piloted aircraft. Think of the
>technology (and the required quality of the data link to fly it remotely).
>Not only that but the pilot controlled it from a nice warm control panel at
>Edwards AFB. It has really long legs - - -it can stay up for almost 2 days
>at altitudes above 60k.
>
>
><< image001.jpg >>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: High Oil Temps |
Scott, here's a page I wrote up about some cooling improvements with
pics of the louvres:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/maintenance/20061022/index.html
This page in the tips area also has links to the louvres and
where to get them. I have not added them yet.
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/engine_IO540.html
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Scott Schmidt wrote:
> Mark, do you have any pictures of the louvers you can send me?
>
> If any of you can think about the name of the more efficient oil cooler
> I would be interested. It was not that warm out on Saturday and I
> wasn't too concerned with 220, it was just much different than I have
> previously seen.
> I can only imagine what would happen here in Utah when temps get to
> 90+. I will have add a water injection unit for the oil cooler like the
> Reno racers have.
> I would like to have a system where I rarely see above 200F.
>
> Scott Schmidt
> scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Mark Ritter <mritter509@msn.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 11:57:46 AM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: High Oil Temps
>
>
> Scott,
>
> Flew to Baja recently with two passengers and about 60 pounds of bags.
> OAT's were well into the 70's and lower 80's on climb outs. On climb out
> (1,000+ fpm) oil temp would climb to 205. It came down to 185 as soon as I
> lowered the nose once reaching cruising altitude.
>
> I generally cruise at 65% - 70% of power for a reference. On hot days
> (75+)
> before I added the louvers on the bottom cowl the oil temp was in the
> 210-212 range in cruise and 220+ when climbing. With the louvers I'm
> seeing
> 185. Even with the louvers I have to reduce power and climb angle on hot
> hot days to keep the oil temp below 200. Before adding the louvers my cowl
> was extremely hot to the touch and now its just warm. I think having a
> larger opening in the bottom of the cowl for the heat to exit helped lower
> the oil temp.
>
> Bracing for when it really gets hot here in Texas.
>
> Mark (N410MR)
>
>
>
>
> >From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt@yahoo.com>
> >To: RV-10 List <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: RV10-List: High Oil Temps
> >Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:36:30 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Need some advise. On Saturday I loaded up the plane and went to Moab UT
> >for the day (about an hour flight). We hung out for the day, went to the
> >car show down there, rented a Jeep and did a couple trials and then
> headed
> >home.
> >We left around 8:00pm. The outside air temp was around 74 when we took
> off.
> > Before starting my engine the oil temp was 101 F. I took off flew south
> >over Moab, then down on the Colorado River and began climbing to the
> north.
> > While climbing I noticed my oil temps at 220 F. I have never seen them
> >that high and I was right over the airport so I landed and thought my
> >ducting had fallen off.
> >I took off the cowl, and everything looked perfect. Thought a bird or
> >something else might have gone down the ducting and covered the oil
> cooler
> >but it looked perfect when I checked that. Tim took my call late at night
> >while he was watching a movie just so I could have a second head thinking
> >about anything else I might have missed.
> >I put the cowling back on and took off by myself and flew around. I
> really
> >had to climb slow to get it to 200 F but everything looked normal. So
> the
> >four of us loaded up and we were off. I typically climb around 100 to
> 105.
> > On climb out the temps went to around 205 and maxed at 210. Once I was
> >at 9500 they went to 195 to 200 and then seemed to stabilize around 190.
> >These still seem higher than I have had in the past. I am use to temps
> >around 170 to 180.
> >I typically just fly with my wife and I and most the flying has been
> in the
> >winter. My CHT's and EGT's look the same as they normally did, only my
> oil
> >temps have changed. This was the warmest weather I have flown in with 4
> >people but I was still climbing at 105 knots. Sure my climb rate may be
> >lower but the cooling should be the same. All I can think of is the
> angle
> >of attack with 4 people changes the cooling rate into the oil cooler.
> >
> >Do many of you in the south go above 200 F very often? Where does
> your oil
> >temp run with 4 people with an OAT of 70 and power settings around
> 19.5 and
> >2400?
> >I will grab a few more test passengers and go do some more work before
> >adding a larger oil cooler or
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Composites for the RV-10 |
Ditto from me on everything said so far. I learned a lot and had a ton
of fun. I have to give the highest praise to Dave and everyone at
Aircrafters for the success of the seminar. I thought everything was
well organized and had a good balance between class discussion, q&a, and
hands-on work. I was super impressed with the facility - my first words
were, "This beats the heck out of my basement!"
My take aways were:
1. Although I now probably have just as many new questions, as questions
answered over the weekend (typical of me when learning anything new), I
am actually looking forward to working on my first composite parts. That
alone made it worthwhile. It is amazing what hard and tough things you
can make with some soft materials like fiberglass, lighter than air
micro ballons, cotton flox and some pink goo mixed with white goo (ie
epoxy resin and hardener).
2. I now have a better idea of what is possible with composites. This is
going to raise the bar on composite parts on my plane (that's the hope,
anyway) and the way I see other planes, too. Multiply that by the other
builders in the class, and you've got an even better looking and more
slippery fleet!
3. I got to meet my largest group of RV-10 builders, yet. I have seen it
said here before, but i can now confirm that the the -10 group truly is
special. ;)
4. Dave must have dalai-lama-like tolerance. I can't imagine anyone
answering more questions and having to endure so many grubby hands
touching his "mistress" all over all weekend long. ;) Anyway, I look
forward to seeing that mistress flying later this year!
As a part-time builder doing this as a hobby, it was great having such a
resource, with 300 or so builder assists under their belt and doing this
for a living, to ask tons of questions to. Thanks again and I highly
recommend it if there is a future seminar!
Jae
#40533
Jeff Carpenter wrote:
> I'll second that...
> **
> **
Jeff Carpenter wrote:
> I'll second that...
> **
> **
Message 23
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| Subject: | RV10 Center cabin top brace. |
Again, the idea is to have as much of the lamination(s) covering over the
hardpoint. It needs to really be inside the lamination, not cut into it.
Your suggestion would be 50% correct if you didn't drill throught the
outside lamination.
I don't know a way to remove a large enough block of foam through four holes
without the use of solvents which will effect the integrity of the
surrounding foam.
When I drilled my four holes the drill absolutely popped into foam, not
wood, unless it was balsa.
Did others really find wood???? I might have something missing. Maybe a call
to Van's is in order.
John
>From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV10 Center cabin top brace.
>Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:49:37 -0700
>
>
>You can also just clean out the foam and inject a mixture (resin, cabosil
>and chopped fibers). Be sure and tape the bottoms of the holes and you will
>get a nice solid hard point without aluminum spacers.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
>Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 11:40 AM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: RV10 Center cabin top brace.
>
>
>I have been trimming the windows and working on the cabin top. By the way,
>an electric high speed grinder with #100 grit works well for finalizing the
>shape on the windows. It heats up the plexiglass and takes it away all at
>the same time. Leave the plastic covering on. Outside air temps, as always
>need to be warm.
>
>In section 43 the manual asks you to make aluminum spacers that will house
>the four screws that through bolt the center brace to the cabin top. I am
>not one that will normally question the plans, but the aluminum
>tubes(dowels) I imagine will be bonded into the cabin top and and keep the
>center brace from pulling out. Being that there are four, it should be
>fairly strong.
>
>What I question however if that there is only so many layers of fiberglass
>on the outside of the cabin top and so many on the inside. Between there is
>the usual foam sandwich. These aluminum dowels will get there retension my
>bonding to both the inside and outside layer of glass, not the foam. The
>screw head is really not any large in diameter that the O.D. of the
>aluminum
>
>dowel, so it will not provide any retension.
>
>Basically, it seems like the cabin top fabricator should have place a
>hardpoint(Hardwood) in this area instead of the foam or we should be
>placing
>
>a steel plate on the outside to keep these dowels from pulling through.
>Maybe because there are four it is not a problem, but seeing that they are
>all in a one inch square spot, my mind thinks it should be made better.
>
>John G.
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: High Oil Temps |
Jack, I typically run my oil around 10 quarts. When I landed I checked it and
it was around 9.5. I added two quarts to add more thermal mass before taking off.
Tim, I will download the data and take a closer look at it. I sure would like
to be able to climb out at 24 square without having oil temp issues. In the winter
I have had to adjust power because of CHT. When they get to 400 I start
pulling power or decreasing climb rate. But it appears the summer brings other
issues. When I was climbing out on Saturday the oil temps were at 220, my
CHT was 394.
I have heard the ducting that feeds the oil cooler is 75% the area of the cooler,
but with a baffles it would seem there would be enough pressure to push as
much air as possible through the cooler. I was wondering if a slightly higher
angle of attack (caused by 4 people) increases the pressure on the bottom of
the aircraft just slightly which reduces the amount of air flowing out of the
cowling. ???????????
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
----- Original Message ----
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 12:40:06 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: High Oil Temps
Adding some speculation to this thread...
In my RV-4, I can tell to a remarkable degree of accuracy how much oil I
have by watching the oil temp on a hot day. If the oil sump gets just a
little below 6 qts, the oil temp really starts to climb. I normally
keep my oil at 6 quarts (capacity of the O-320 is 8 quarts), but in the
hottest months I try to keep it at 7 quarts just to keep the temps down.
If I put 8 quarts in, I will quickly lose a quart through the breather.
I'm wondering whether it would be useful to have an air-oil separator
and keep the oil at max capacity for better cooling. I have such a
separator on my Pietenpol and since I don't lose any oil through the
breather, the oil consumption on that engine (Continental A65) is
running at about a quart every 25 hours. I'm considering putting an
air-oil separator on the RV-10, but had not considered that it might
help with oil temperature. Helps keep the belly clean, too.
Does anyone have any experience with an RV-10 with an air-oil separator,
and does it still have problems with oil temps?
Jack Phillips
#40610
Tailcone
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: High Oil Temps
This one will be interesting to follow. It's a tough spot to be in...
not high enough to seriously scare you, but not nearly as low as normal.
Makes it hard to figure out what to do.
For what it's worth, I seem to hold in the 165-180 range in the winters,
and pretty much almost always about 185 in the summers here. But, I
also never saw any alarming oil temps when we were on any of our trips,
even though we did fly on some hot days....some of that was even in the
SouthWest, and NorthWest in the summer, and some was on extended climbs.
Looking into some of the logs that I downloaded from my EIS, I do see
that on the trip to Oregon, (hot), it looks like my highest Oil Temp was
197, and that was just a couple of log
entries and then it was back in the 180's. Then looking at
another trip last spring/summer on a hot day (I think that was the
Yellowstone trip), I do see that on one climbout I hit 208. That same
flight stabilized in the low to mid
190's. But, keep in mind from Deem's post that the
recommended specs 165-200 in level flight cruise.....so if you peak out
on climb at something higher but still well under the 245 degree range,
I don't know that I'd worry.
I guess I myself would reduce that limit from 245 to maybe 220 to get an
earlier warning, and maybe have my Chelton EIS
limit programmed to go yellow at 200 and red at 220. Just
like the CHT limit is officially 500, but you'd be nuts to run that
high.....so my yellow is 400 and red is 415 or something like that.
Again though, when I pour over my logs, I don't see anything that leads
me to believe that we have anything to worry about from a design
perspective. The oil temps are usually towards the middle end of that
temp range and I'd pretty much call them "perfect". I wouldn't want it
to run any cooler, and except for those brief peaks during climbs where
I topped 200, if you look at my x/c line graph, it's almost never
anywhere near 200.
Keep watching it for some flights and see how it goes.
Since you have a Chelton system, I know you can use EGview, which is
FANTASTIC software....download your logs from all of your flights for a
while and you can check out what the
temps were all the time. It's a great tool for just
this type of thing. It also includes a GAMI tool so you can flow match
your injectors and it will analyze to show you the spread. Good stuff!
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Scott Schmidt wrote:
> Need some advise. On Saturday I loaded up the plane and went to Moab
> UT for the day (about an hour flight). We hung out for the day, went
> to the car show down there, rented a Jeep and did a couple trials and
> then headed home.
> We left around 8:00pm. The outside air temp was around 74 when we took
> off. Before starting my engine the oil temp was 101 F. I took off
> flew south over Moab, then down on the Colorado River and began
> climbing to the north. While climbing I noticed my oil temps at 220
> F. I have never seen them that high and I was right over the airport
> so I landed and thought my ducting had fallen off.
> I took off the cowl, and everything looked perfect. Thought a bird or
> something else might have gone down the ducting and covered the oil
> cooler but it looked perfect when I checked that. Tim took my call
> late at night while he was watching a movie just so I could have a
> second head thinking about anything else I might have missed.
> I put the cowling back on and took off by myself and flew around. I
> really had to climb slow to get it to 200 F but everything looked
> normal. So the four of us loaded up and we were off. I typically
> climb around 100 to 105. On climb out the temps went to around 205
> and maxed at 210. Once I was at 9500 they went to 195 to 200 and then
> seemed to stabilize around 190. These still seem higher than I have
> had in the past. I am use to temps around 170 to 180.
> I typically just fly with my wife and I and most the flying has been
> in the winter. My CHT's and EGT's look the same as they normally did,
> only my oil temps have changed. This was the warmest weather I have
> flown in with 4 people but I was still climbing at 105 knots. Sure my
> climb rate may be lower but the cooling should be the same. All I can
> think of is the angle of attack with 4 people changes the cooling rate
> into the oil cooler.
>
> Do many of you in the south go above 200 F very often? Where does
> your oil temp run with 4 people with an OAT of 70 and power settings
> around
> 19.5 and 2400?
> I will grab a few more test passengers and go do some more work before
> adding a larger oil cooler or cooling ducts in the side like others.
>
>
> Scott Schmidt
>
> scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
>
> *
>
>
> *
_________________________________________________
Message 25
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Is there any possibility of even the smallest air leak on the
pressurized side of the oil cooler? If so some of the air will take the
path of least resistance and not pass through the oil cooler core. This
lowers the pressure differential between the cooler input and discharge.
The box between the firewall and oil cooler face needs to be air tight.
Bobby
40116
(reading too much about liquid cooled engines over the last 3 years)
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: High Oil Temps
Mark, do you have any pictures of the louvers you can send me?
If any of you can think about the name of the more efficient oil cooler
I would be interested. It was not that warm out on Saturday and I
wasn't too concerned with 220, it was just much different than I have
previously seen.
I can only imagine what would happen here in Utah when temps get to 90+.
I will have add a water injection unit for the oil cooler like the Reno
racers have.
I would like to have a system where I rarely see above 200F.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Mark Ritter <mritter509@msn.com>
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 11:57:46 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: High Oil Temps
Scott,
Flew to Baja recently with two passengers and about 60 pounds of bags.
OAT's were well into the 70's and lower 80's on climb outs. On climb
out
(1,000+ fpm) oil temp would climb to 205. It came down to 185 as soon
as I
lowered the nose once reaching cruising altitude.
I generally cruise at 65% - 70% of power for a reference. On hot days
(75+)
before I added the louvers on the bottom cowl the oil temp was in the
210-212 range in cruise and 220+ when climbing. With the louvers I'm
seeing
185. Even with the louvers I have to reduce power and climb angle on
hot
hot days to keep the oil temp below 200. Before adding the louvers my
cowl
was extremely hot to the touch and now its just warm. I think having a
larger opening in the bottom of the cowl for the heat to exit helped
lower
the oil temp.
Bracing for when it really gets hot here in Texas.
Mark (N410MR)
>From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt@yahoo.com>
>To: RV-10 List <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV10-List: High Oil Temps
>Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:36:30 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Need some advise. On Saturday I loaded up the plane and went to Moab
UT
>for the day (about an hour flight). We hung out for the day, went to
the
>car show down there, rented a Jeep and did a couple trials and then
headed
>home.
>We left around 8:00pm. The outside air temp was around 74 when we took
off.
> Before starting my engine the oil temp was 101 F. I took off flew
south
>over Moab, then down on the Colorado River and began climbing to the
north.
> While climbing I noticed my oil temps at 220 F. I have never seen
them
>that high and I was right over the airport so I landed and thought my
>ducting had fallen off.
>I took off the cowl, and everything looked perfect. Thought a bird or
>something else might have gone down the ducting and covered the oil
cooler
>but it looked perfect when I checked that. Tim took my call late at
night
>while he was watching a movie just so I could have a second head
thinking
>about anything else I might have missed.
>I put the cowling back on and took off by myself and flew around. I
really
>had to climb slow to get it to 200 F but everything looked normal. So
the
>four of us loaded up and we were off. I typically climb around 100 to
105.
> On climb out the temps went to around 205 and maxed at 210. Once I
was
>at 9500 they went to 195 to 200 and then seemed to stabilize around
190.
>These still seem higher than I have had in the past. I am use to temps
>around 170 to 180.
>I typically just fly with my wife and I and most the flying has been in
the
>winter. My CHT's and EGT's look the same as they normally did, only my
oil
>temps have changed. This was the warmest weather I have flown in with
4
>people but I was still climbing at 105 knots. Sure my climb rate may
be
>lower but the cooling should be the same. All I can think of is the
angle
>of attack with 4 people changes the cooling rate into the oil cooler.
>
>Do many of you in the south go above 200 F very often? Where does your
oil
>temp run with 4 people with an OAT of 70 and power settings around 19.5
and
>2400?
>I will grab a few more test passengers and go do some more work before
>adding a larger oil cooler or
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: High Oil Temps |
This changes the story a bit....if you're also seeing high
CHT's on climbout in the winter, then I believe you definitely
have to look at your baffling and there is probably a bit of
improvement that can be done. The temps weren't that hot
that day, and my guess is you'll easily be able to drop
a bunch of temperature by some baffling improvements.
Check those links I sent in one of the last emails on the
list. Especially verify that you have prevented air from
flowing under your upper cowl air ramps, and that you have
sealed your air chamber above the engine well. For CHT's,
also file out the slag between the cylinder fins on the
top of your cylinder below the sparkplugs. If you're seeing
heat in more than just one form....CHT's and Oil temps, especially
the fact that you've seen it in the winter, then there is a
problem somewhere. This weekend it hit 85 degrees by me,
but yet I never hit 400 CHT on climbout except for under the
most extreme of hot days.
Personally, I had thought I did a good job on my baffles and
cowl sealing. It wasn't until I really dug in that I realized
that my original job sucked in comparison to what was possible.
I really doubt that just the additional people load changed
your AOA enough to make a huge difference. I fly a large
percentage of my time with 3-4 seats filled, and even when
it's the kids there, that means I carry lots of baggage too.
The airspeed you climb at will affect the temps a lot more, I
would bet. I climb like you (106kts approx.).
I would seriously dig into the cowling/baffling/cooling.
Check that page I put together. I think there's enough there
to figure it all out. That tips page too has the file type
I used.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Scott Schmidt wrote:
> Jack, I typically run my oil around 10 quarts. When I landed I checked
> it and it was around 9.5. I added two quarts to add more thermal mass
> before taking off.
>
> Tim, I will download the data and take a closer look at it. I sure
> would like to be able to climb out at 24 square without having oil temp
> issues. In the winter I have had to adjust power because of CHT. When
> they get to 400 I start pulling power or decreasing climb rate. But it
> appears the summer brings other issues. When I was climbing out on
> Saturday the oil temps were at 220, my CHT was 394.
>
> I have heard the ducting that feeds the oil cooler is 75% the area of
> the cooler, but with a baffles it would seem there would be enough
> pressure to push as much air as possible through the cooler. I was
> wondering if a slightly higher angle of attack (caused by 4 people)
> increases the pressure on the bottom of the aircraft just slightly which
> reduces the amount of air flowing out of the cowling. ???????????
>
> Scott Schmidt
> scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 12:40:06 PM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: High Oil Temps
>
> <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
>
> Adding some speculation to this thread...
>
> In my RV-4, I can tell to a remarkable degree of accuracy how much oil I
> have by watching the oil temp on a hot day. If the oil sump gets just a
> little below 6 qts, the oil temp really starts to climb. I normally
> keep my oil at 6 quarts (capacity of the O-320 is 8 quarts), but in the
> hottest months I try to keep it at 7 quarts just to keep the temps down.
> If I put 8 quarts in, I will quickly lose a quart through the breather.
>
> I'm wondering whether it would be useful to have an air-oil separator
> and keep the oil at max capacity for better cooling. I have such a
> separator on my Pietenpol and since I don't lose any oil through the
> breather, the oil consumption on that engine (Continental A65) is
> running at about a quart every 25 hours. I'm considering putting an
> air-oil separator on the RV-10, but had not considered that it might
> help with oil temperature. Helps keep the belly clean, too.
>
> Does anyone have any experience with an RV-10 with an air-oil separator,
> and does it still have problems with oil temps?
>
> Jack Phillips
> #40610
> Tailcone
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 3:03 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: High Oil Temps
>
>
> This one will be interesting to follow. It's a tough spot to be in...
> not high enough to seriously scare you, but not nearly as low as normal.
> Makes it hard to figure out what to do.
>
> For what it's worth, I seem to hold in the 165-180 range in the winters,
> and pretty much almost always about 185 in the summers here. But, I
> also never saw any alarming oil temps when we were on any of our trips,
> even though we did fly on some hot days....some of that was even in the
> SouthWest, and NorthWest in the summer, and some was on extended climbs.
>
> Looking into some of the logs that I downloaded from my EIS, I do see
> that on the trip to Oregon, (hot), it looks like my highest Oil Temp was
> 197, and that was just a couple of log
> entries and then it was back in the 180's. Then looking at
> another trip last spring/summer on a hot day (I think that was the
> Yellowstone trip), I do see that on one climbout I hit 208. That same
> flight stabilized in the low to mid
> 190's. But, keep in mind from Deem's post that the
> recommended specs 165-200 in level flight cruise.....so if you peak out
> on climb at something higher but still well under the 245 degree range,
> I don't know that I'd worry.
> I guess I myself would reduce that limit from 245 to maybe 220 to get an
> earlier warning, and maybe have my Chelton EIS
> limit programmed to go yellow at 200 and red at 220. Just
> like the CHT limit is officially 500, but you'd be nuts to run that
> high.....so my yellow is 400 and red is 415 or something like that.
>
> Again though, when I pour over my logs, I don't see anything that leads
> me to believe that we have anything to worry about from a design
> perspective. The oil temps are usually towards the middle end of that
> temp range and I'd pretty much call them "perfect". I wouldn't want it
> to run any cooler, and except for those brief peaks during climbs where
> I topped 200, if you look at my x/c line graph, it's almost never
> anywhere near 200.
>
> Keep watching it for some flights and see how it goes.
> Since you have a Chelton system, I know you can use EGview, which is
> FANTASTIC software....download your logs from all of your flights for a
> while and you can check out what the
> temps were all the time. It's a great tool for just
> this type of thing. It also includes a GAMI tool so you can flow match
> your injectors and it will analyze to show you the spread. Good stuff!
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Scott Schmidt wrote:
> > Need some advise. On Saturday I loaded up the plane and went to Moab
> > UT for the day (about an hour flight). We hung out for the day, went
> > to the car show down there, rented a Jeep and did a couple trials and
> > then headed home.
> > We left around 8:00pm. The outside air temp was around 74 when we took
>
> > off. Before starting my engine the oil temp was 101 F. I took off
> > flew south over Moab, then down on the Colorado River and began
> > climbing to the north. While climbing I noticed my oil temps at 220
> > F. I have never seen them that high and I was right over the airport
> > so I landed and thought my ducting had fallen off.
> > I took off the cowl, and everything looked perfect. Thought a bird or
>
> > something else might have gone down the ducting and covered the oil
> > cooler but it looked perfect when I checked that. Tim took my call
> > late at night while he was watching a movie just so I could have a
> > second head thinking about anything else I might have missed.
> > I put the cowling back on and took off by myself and flew around. I
> > really had to climb slow to get it to 200 F but everything looked
> > normal. So the four of us loaded up and we were off. I typically
> > climb around 100 to 105. On climb out the temps went to around 205
> > and maxed at 210. Once I was at 9500 they went to 195 to 200 and then
>
> > seemed to stabilize around 190. These still seem higher than I have
> > had in the past. I am use to temps around 170 to 180.
> > I typically just fly with my wife and I and most the flying has been
> > in the winter. My CHT's and EGT's look the same as they normally did,
> > only my oil temps have changed. This was the warmest weather I have
> > flown in with 4 people but I was still climbing at 105 knots. Sure my
>
> > climb rate may be lower but the cooling should be the same. All I can
>
> > think of is the angle of attack with 4 people changes the cooling rate
>
> > into the oil cooler.
> >
> > Do many of you in the south go above 200 F very often? Where does
> > your oil temp run with 4 people with an OAT of 70 and power settings
> > around
> > 19.5 and
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: High Oil Temps |
Scott,
I bought mine from Alex DeDominicis (972) 775-1896. He has pictures on his
web site. There are four RV's at 50R (Central Texas) that have the louvers
installed including Keith Uhls RV-7 who I think you have met. We all swear
by them. Folks that have installed them are seeing their oil temp going
down by 20-25 degrees (down to 185 degree range in my RV-10) allowing for
faster climbs without having to level off to cool things down (except on
really really hot days).
Getting oil temp too cold is not a problem for me. If it gets that cold I
start whinning about where is Gore's global warming, grab an electric
blanket and get in the fetal position and don't go outside until it warms up
to at least 60.
I'll take some pictures tomorrow if I get to the a/p. Once on, you can't
see them except when cleaning the dirty side of the airplane.
Hope all is well.
Mark
N410MR
>From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt@yahoo.com>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: High Oil Temps
>Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:53:01 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Mark, do you have any pictures of the louvers you can send me?
>
>If any of you can think about the name of the more efficient oil cooler I
>would be interested. It was not that warm out on Saturday and I wasn't too
>concerned with 220, it was just much different than I have previously seen.
>I can only imagine what would happen here in Utah when temps get to 90+. I
>will have add a water injection unit for the oil cooler like the Reno
>racers have.
>I would like to have a system where I rarely see above 200F.
>
>Scott Schmidt
>scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Mark Ritter <mritter509@msn.com>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 11:57:46 AM
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: High Oil Temps
>
>
>
>Scott,
>
>Flew to Baja recently with two passengers and about 60 pounds of bags.
>OAT's were well into the 70's and lower 80's on climb outs. On climb out
>(1,000+ fpm) oil temp would climb to 205. It came down to 185 as soon as I
>lowered the nose once reaching cruising altitude.
>
>I generally cruise at 65% - 70% of power for a reference. On hot days
>(75+)
>before I added the louvers on the bottom cowl the oil temp was in the
>210-212 range in cruise and 220+ when climbing. With the louvers I'm
>seeing
>185. Even with the louvers I have to reduce power and climb angle on hot
>hot days to keep the oil temp below 200. Before adding the louvers my cowl
>was extremely hot to the touch and now its just warm. I think having a
>larger opening in the bottom of the cowl for the heat to exit helped lower
>the oil temp.
>
>Bracing for when it really gets hot here in Texas.
>
>Mark (N410MR)
>
>
> >From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt@yahoo.com>
> >To: RV-10 List <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: RV10-List: High Oil Temps
> >Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:36:30 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Need some advise. On Saturday I loaded up the plane and went to Moab UT
> >for the day (about an hour flight). We hung out for the day, went to the
> >car show down there, rented a Jeep and did a couple trials and then
>headed
> >home.
> >We left around 8:00pm. The outside air temp was around 74 when we took
>off.
> > Before starting my engine the oil temp was 101 F. I took off flew south
> >over Moab, then down on the Colorado River and began climbing to the
>north.
> > While climbing I noticed my oil temps at 220 F. I have never seen them
> >that high and I was right over the airport so I landed and thought my
> >ducting had fallen off.
> >I took off the cowl, and everything looked perfect. Thought a bird or
> >something else might have gone down the ducting and covered the oil
>cooler
> >but it looked perfect when I checked that. Tim took my call late at night
> >while he was watching a movie just so I could have a second head thinking
> >about anything else I might have missed.
> >I put the cowling back on and took off by myself and flew around. I
>really
> >had to climb slow to get it to 200 F but everything looked normal. So
>the
> >four of us loaded up and we were off. I typically climb around 100 to
>105.
> > On climb out the temps went to around 205 and maxed at 210. Once I was
> >at 9500 they went to 195 to 200 and then seemed to stabilize around 190.
> >These still seem higher than I have had in the past. I am use to temps
> >around 170 to 180.
> >I typically just fly with my wife and I and most the flying has been in
>the
> >winter. My CHT's and EGT's look the same as they normally did, only my
>oil
> >temps have changed. This was the warmest weather I have flown in with 4
> >people but I was still climbing at 105 knots. Sure my climb rate may be
> >lower but the cooling should be the same. All I can think of is the
>angle
> >of attack with 4 people changes the cooling rate into the oil cooler.
> >
> >Do many of you in the south go above 200 F very often? Where does your
>oil
> >temp run with 4 people with an OAT of 70 and power settings around 19.5
>and
> >2400?
> >I will grab a few more test passengers and go do some more work before
> >adding a larger oil cooler or cooling ducts in the side like others.
> >
> >Scott Schmidt
> >scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
>http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01
>
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Message 28
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| Subject: | They need an RV10 at Nellis AFB Next Year...They need |
an RV10 at Nellis AFB Next Year...
Hey, speaking of Nellis. I'm in Vegas this week for conferences and traini
ng. Anyone building around here? Contact me off list.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 limbo
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 5:52 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: They need an RV10 at Nellis AFB Next Year...They ne
ed an RV10 at Nellis AFB Next Year...
Bob K. and Rick S. will have to twist my arm about as hard as they twisted
it to get a flight in my RV-10 last year to get me to fly into Nellis AFB f
or the airshow.
Russ Daves
Message 29
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|
Have you tried climing at 115Kts indicated. That seems to be the most
efficient speed for climging from our testing. On the Sorcerer putting
either 110Kts or 115Kts is standard for us on climb. It should run a little
cooler that way.
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: High Oil Temps
This changes the story a bit....if you're also seeing high
CHT's on climbout in the winter, then I believe you definitely
have to look at your baffling and there is probably a bit of
improvement that can be done. The temps weren't that hot
that day, and my guess is you'll easily be able to drop
a bunch of temperature by some baffling improvements.
Check those links I sent in one of the last emails on the
list. Especially verify that you have prevented air from
flowing under your upper cowl air ramps, and that you have
sealed your air chamber above the engine well. For CHT's,
also file out the slag between the cylinder fins on the
top of your cylinder below the sparkplugs. If you're seeing
heat in more than just one form....CHT's and Oil temps, especially
the fact that you've seen it in the winter, then there is a
problem somewhere. This weekend it hit 85 degrees by me,
but yet I never hit 400 CHT on climbout except for under the
most extreme of hot days.
Personally, I had thought I did a good job on my baffles and
cowl sealing. It wasn't until I really dug in that I realized
that my original job sucked in comparison to what was possible.
I really doubt that just the additional people load changed
your AOA enough to make a huge difference. I fly a large
percentage of my time with 3-4 seats filled, and even when
it's the kids there, that means I carry lots of baggage too.
The airspeed you climb at will affect the temps a lot more, I
would bet. I climb like you (106kts approx.).
I would seriously dig into the cowling/baffling/cooling.
Check that page I put together. I think there's enough there
to figure it all out. That tips page too has the file type
I used.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Scott Schmidt wrote:
> Jack, I typically run my oil around 10 quarts. When I landed I checked
> it and it was around 9.5. I added two quarts to add more thermal mass
> before taking off.
>
> Tim, I will download the data and take a closer look at it. I sure
> would like to be able to climb out at 24 square without having oil temp
> issues. In the winter I have had to adjust power because of CHT. When
> they get to 400 I start pulling power or decreasing climb rate. But it
> appears the summer brings other issues. When I was climbing out on
> Saturday the oil temps were at 220, my CHT was 394.
>
> I have heard the ducting that feeds the oil cooler is 75% the area of
> the cooler, but with a baffles it would seem there would be enough
> pressure to push as much air as possible through the cooler. I was
> wondering if a slightly higher angle of attack (caused by 4 people)
> increases the pressure on the bottom of the aircraft just slightly which
> reduces the amount of air flowing out of the cowling. ???????????
>
> Scott Schmidt
> scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 12:40:06 PM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: High Oil Temps
>
> <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
>
> Adding some speculation to this thread...
>
> In my RV-4, I can tell to a remarkable degree of accuracy how much oil I
> have by watching the oil temp on a hot day. If the oil sump gets just a
> little below 6 qts, the oil temp really starts to climb. I normally
> keep my oil at 6 quarts (capacity of the O-320 is 8 quarts), but in the
> hottest months I try to keep it at 7 quarts just to keep the temps down.
> If I put 8 quarts in, I will quickly lose a quart through the breather.
>
> I'm wondering whether it would be useful to have an air-oil separator
> and keep the oil at max capacity for better cooling. I have such a
> separator on my Pietenpol and since I don't lose any oil through the
> breather, the oil consumption on that engine (Continental A65) is
> running at about a quart every 25 hours. I'm considering putting an
> air-oil separator on the RV-10, but had not considered that it might
> help with oil temperature. Helps keep the belly clean, too.
>
> Does anyone have any experience with an RV-10 with an air-oil separator,
> and does it still have problems with oil temps?
>
> Jack Phillips
> #40610
> Tailcone
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 3:03 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: High Oil Temps
>
>
> This one will be interesting to follow. It's a tough spot to be in...
> not high enough to seriously scare you, but not nearly as low as normal.
> Makes it hard to figure out what to do.
>
> For what it's worth, I seem to hold in the 165-180 range in the winters,
> and pretty much almost always about 185 in the summers here. But, I
> also never saw any alarming oil temps when we were on any of our trips,
> even though we did fly on some hot days....some of that was even in the
> SouthWest, and NorthWest in the summer, and some was on extended climbs.
>
> Looking into some of the logs that I downloaded from my EIS, I do see
> that on the trip to Oregon, (hot), it looks like my highest Oil Temp was
> 197, and that was just a couple of log
> entries and then it was back in the 180's. Then looking at
> another trip last spring/summer on a hot day (I think that was the
> Yellowstone trip), I do see that on one climbout I hit 208. That same
> flight stabilized in the low to mid
> 190's. But, keep in mind from Deem's post that the
> recommended specs 165-200 in level flight cruise.....so if you peak out
> on climb at something higher but still well under the 245 degree range,
> I don't know that I'd worry.
> I guess I myself would reduce that limit from 245 to maybe 220 to get an
> earlier warning, and maybe have my Chelton EIS
> limit programmed to go yellow at 200 and red at 220. Just
> like the CHT limit is officially 500, but you'd be nuts to run that
> high.....so my yellow is 400 and red is 415 or something like that.
>
> Again though, when I pour over my logs, I don't see anything that leads
> me to believe that we have anything to worry about from a design
> perspective. The oil temps are usually towards the middle end of that
> temp range and I'd pretty much call them "perfect". I wouldn't want it
> to run any cooler, and except for those brief peaks during climbs where
> I topped 200, if you look at my x/c line graph, it's almost never
> anywhere near 200.
>
> Keep watching it for some flights and see how it goes.
> Since you have a Chelton system, I know you can use EGview, which is
> FANTASTIC software....download your logs from all of your flights for a
> while and you can check out what the
> temps were all the time. It's a great tool for just
> this type of thing. It also includes a GAMI tool so you can flow match
> your injectors and it will analyze to show you the spread. Good stuff!
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Scott Schmidt wrote:
> > Need some advise. On Saturday I loaded up the plane and went to Moab
> > UT for the day (about an hour flight). We hung out for the day, went
> > to the car show down there, rented a Jeep and did a couple trials and
> > then headed home.
> > We left around 8:00pm. The outside air temp was around 74 when we took
>
> > off. Before starting my engine the oil temp was 101 F. I took off
> > flew south over Moab, then down on the Colorado River and began
> > climbing to the north. While climbing I noticed my oil temps at 220
> > F. I have never seen them that high and I was right over the airport
> > so I landed and thought my ducting had fallen off.
> > I took off the cowl, and everything looked perfect. Thought a bird or
>
> > something else might have gone down the ducting and covered the oil
> > cooler but it looked perfect when I checked that. Tim took my call
> > late at night while he was watching a movie just so I could have a
> > second head thinking about anything else I might have missed.
> > I put the cowling back on and took off by myself and flew around. I
> > really had to climb slow to get it to 200 F but everything looked
> > normal. So the four of us loaded up and we were off. I typically
> > climb around 100 to 105. On climb out the temps went to around 205
> > and maxed at 210. Once I was at 9500 they went to 195 to 200 and then
>
> > seemed to stabilize around 190. These still seem higher than I have
> > had in the past. I am use to temps around 170 to 180.
> > I typically just fly with my wife and I and most the flying has been
> > in the winter. My CHT's and EGT's look the same as they normally did,
> > only my oil temps have changed. This was the warmest weather I have
> > flown in with 4 people but I was still climbing at 105 knots. Sure my
>
> > climb rate may be lower but the cooling should be the same. All I can
>
> > think of is the angle of attack with 4 people changes the cooling rate
>
> > into the oil cooler.
> >
> > Do many of you in the south go above 200 F very often? Where does
> > your oil temp run with 4 people with an OAT of 70 and power settings
> > around
> > 19.5 and
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
9:14 AM
Message 30
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|
Well I need to chime in here. On one trip about 4 months after my first
flight Cheryl and I had to make a trip to Redmond Or and pick up two
passengers. We were coming back to the valley. I landed at Redmond with
the air temp about 95 deg. The airport is 3200ft or so field elevation.
We filled up with fuel loaded about 75 lbs of baggage and 4 passengers.
I mean we were at gross. We headed for the runway. At the end of the
runway it was 101 deg. We left the ground at about the 1500 ft. mark.
Now the engine was heat soaked and we were only on the ground for 20 min
(no cool off time at all). On climb out Rob's engine monitor squawked
check oil temp. We were at 235 and climbing. At 500 ft AGL I lowered
the nose so we were climbing at 100ft per minute. The engine temp hit
239 then leveled off before dropping to about 225. I called the engine
rebuilder and he said that it would be ok and the correct solution was
lower the nose and make sure it started to drop. He also has told me
that in order to get the moisture out of an engine in the winter time to
get the oil temp to 180 deg. Below that the moisture that builds sitting
in the hanger for a month or so will not be evaporated. My normal temps
are 185 to 205 most of the time. Good flying. Randy 40006
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 3:02 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: High Oil Temps
Have you tried climing at 115Kts indicated. That seems to be the most
efficient speed for climging from our testing. On the Sorcerer putting
either 110Kts or 115Kts is standard for us on climb. It should run a
little
cooler that way.
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: High Oil Temps
This changes the story a bit....if you're also seeing high
CHT's on climbout in the winter, then I believe you definitely
have to look at your baffling and there is probably a bit of
improvement that can be done. The temps weren't that hot
that day, and my guess is you'll easily be able to drop
a bunch of temperature by some baffling improvements.
Check those links I sent in one of the last emails on the
list. Especially verify that you have prevented air from
flowing under your upper cowl air ramps, and that you have
sealed your air chamber above the engine well. For CHT's,
also file out the slag between the cylinder fins on the
top of your cylinder below the sparkplugs. If you're seeing
heat in more than just one form....CHT's and Oil temps, especially
the fact that you've seen it in the winter, then there is a
problem somewhere. This weekend it hit 85 degrees by me,
but yet I never hit 400 CHT on climbout except for under the
most extreme of hot days.
Personally, I had thought I did a good job on my baffles and
cowl sealing. It wasn't until I really dug in that I realized
that my original job sucked in comparison to what was possible.
I really doubt that just the additional people load changed
your AOA enough to make a huge difference. I fly a large
percentage of my time with 3-4 seats filled, and even when
it's the kids there, that means I carry lots of baggage too.
The airspeed you climb at will affect the temps a lot more, I
would bet. I climb like you (106kts approx.).
I would seriously dig into the cowling/baffling/cooling.
Check that page I put together. I think there's enough there
to figure it all out. That tips page too has the file type
I used.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Scott Schmidt wrote:
> Jack, I typically run my oil around 10 quarts. When I landed I
checked
> it and it was around 9.5. I added two quarts to add more thermal mass
> before taking off.
>
> Tim, I will download the data and take a closer look at it. I sure
> would like to be able to climb out at 24 square without having oil
temp
> issues. In the winter I have had to adjust power because of CHT.
When
> they get to 400 I start pulling power or decreasing climb rate. But
it
> appears the summer brings other issues. When I was climbing out on
> Saturday the oil temps were at 220, my CHT was 394.
>
> I have heard the ducting that feeds the oil cooler is 75% the area of
> the cooler, but with a baffles it would seem there would be enough
> pressure to push as much air as possible through the cooler. I was
> wondering if a slightly higher angle of attack (caused by 4 people)
> increases the pressure on the bottom of the aircraft just slightly
which
> reduces the amount of air flowing out of the cowling. ???????????
>
> Scott Schmidt
> scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 12:40:06 PM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: High Oil Temps
>
> <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
>
> Adding some speculation to this thread...
>
> In my RV-4, I can tell to a remarkable degree of accuracy how much oil
I
> have by watching the oil temp on a hot day. If the oil sump gets just
a
> little below 6 qts, the oil temp really starts to climb. I normally
> keep my oil at 6 quarts (capacity of the O-320 is 8 quarts), but in
the
> hottest months I try to keep it at 7 quarts just to keep the temps
down.
> If I put 8 quarts in, I will quickly lose a quart through the
breather.
>
> I'm wondering whether it would be useful to have an air-oil separator
> and keep the oil at max capacity for better cooling. I have such a
> separator on my Pietenpol and since I don't lose any oil through the
> breather, the oil consumption on that engine (Continental A65) is
> running at about a quart every 25 hours. I'm considering putting an
> air-oil separator on the RV-10, but had not considered that it might
> help with oil temperature. Helps keep the belly clean, too.
>
> Does anyone have any experience with an RV-10 with an air-oil
separator,
> and does it still have problems with oil temps?
>
> Jack Phillips
> #40610
> Tailcone
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 3:03 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: High Oil Temps
>
>
> This one will be interesting to follow. It's a tough spot to be in...
> not high enough to seriously scare you, but not nearly as low as
normal.
> Makes it hard to figure out what to do.
>
> For what it's worth, I seem to hold in the 165-180 range in the
winters,
> and pretty much almost always about 185 in the summers here. But, I
> also never saw any alarming oil temps when we were on any of our
trips,
> even though we did fly on some hot days....some of that was even in
the
> SouthWest, and NorthWest in the summer, and some was on extended
climbs.
>
> Looking into some of the logs that I downloaded from my EIS, I do see
> that on the trip to Oregon, (hot), it looks like my highest Oil Temp
was
> 197, and that was just a couple of log
> entries and then it was back in the 180's. Then looking at
> another trip last spring/summer on a hot day (I think that was the
> Yellowstone trip), I do see that on one climbout I hit 208. That same
> flight stabilized in the low to mid
> 190's. But, keep in mind from Deem's post that the
> recommended specs 165-200 in level flight cruise.....so if you peak
out
> on climb at something higher but still well under the 245 degree
range,
> I don't know that I'd worry.
> I guess I myself would reduce that limit from 245 to maybe 220 to get
an
> earlier warning, and maybe have my Chelton EIS
> limit programmed to go yellow at 200 and red at 220. Just
> like the CHT limit is officially 500, but you'd be nuts to run that
> high.....so my yellow is 400 and red is 415 or something like that.
>
> Again though, when I pour over my logs, I don't see anything that
leads
> me to believe that we have anything to worry about from a design
> perspective. The oil temps are usually towards the middle end of that
> temp range and I'd pretty much call them "perfect". I wouldn't want
it
> to run any cooler, and except for those brief peaks during climbs
where
> I topped 200, if you look at my x/c line graph, it's almost never
> anywhere near 200.
>
> Keep watching it for some flights and see how it goes.
> Since you have a Chelton system, I know you can use EGview, which is
> FANTASTIC software....download your logs from all of your flights for
a
> while and you can check out what the
> temps were all the time. It's a great tool for just
> this type of thing. It also includes a GAMI tool so you can flow
match
> your injectors and it will analyze to show you the spread. Good
stuff!
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Scott Schmidt wrote:
> > Need some advise. On Saturday I loaded up the plane and went to
Moab
> > UT for the day (about an hour flight). We hung out for the day,
went
> > to the car show down there, rented a Jeep and did a couple trials
and
> > then headed home.
> > We left around 8:00pm. The outside air temp was around 74 when we
took
>
> > off. Before starting my engine the oil temp was 101 F. I took off
> > flew south over Moab, then down on the Colorado River and began
> > climbing to the north. While climbing I noticed my oil temps at
220
> > F. I have never seen them that high and I was right over the
airport
> > so I landed and thought my ducting had fallen off.
> > I took off the cowl, and everything looked perfect. Thought a bird
or
>
> > something else might have gone down the ducting and covered the oil
> > cooler but it looked perfect when I checked that. Tim took my call
> > late at night while he was watching a movie just so I could have a
> > second head thinking about anything else I might have missed.
> > I put the cowling back on and took off by myself and flew around.
I
> > really had to climb slow to get it to 200 F but everything looked
> > normal. So the four of us loaded up and we were off. I typically
> > climb around 100 to 105. On climb out the temps went to around 205
> > and maxed at 210. Once I was at 9500 they went to 195 to 200 and
then
>
> > seemed to stabilize around 190. These still seem higher than I
have
> > had in the past. I am use to temps around 170 to 180.
> > I typically just fly with my wife and I and most the flying has
been
> > in the winter. My CHT's and EGT's look the same as they normally
did,
> > only my oil temps have changed. This was the warmest weather I
have
> > flown in with 4 people but I was still climbing at 105 knots. Sure
my
>
> > climb rate may be lower but the cooling should be the same. All I
can
>
> > think of is the angle of attack with 4 people changes the cooling
rate
>
> > into the oil cooler.
> >
> > Do many of you in the south go above 200 F very often? Where does
> > your oil temp run with 4 people with an OAT of 70 and power
settings
> > around
> > 19.5 and
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
9:14 AM
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Traffic at FL60... |
Tim Dawson-Townsend of Avidyne fame is now at Aurora Flight
Sciences. So you check out there website
<http://www.aurora.aero/aerostructures/GlobalHawk.html>
and you see this:
Only 35 to 36 hours of Endurance with a range of 12,000 nm.
Cool stuff.
Larry Rosen
do not archive
Message 32
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Just a data point for those of us with the Crossbow AHRS.
Mike Smith from Crossbow flew out to my place in TN several weeks ago to
personally deliver and help install the revised AHRS, active GPS antenna and new
cable from the AHRS to the antenna. Talk about customer service!
I had experienced one instance of erratic behavior after the previously
announced hardware fix from late last year, and my unit had been back to Crossbow
for the upgrade.
Crossbow believes that they have finally found and fixed the isolated
instances where the unit appeared to experience unreliable GPS signals, which
ultimately impacted the attitude presentation on the Chelton.
It was tied to GPS processing rates from the GPS unit (not made by Crossbow,
but built into the unit as we get them form Crossbow). So it was not related
to the previous hardware issues they had over a year ago.
I now have about 6 flights on the revised hardware, including two flights
with fairly aggressive maneuvering.
At this point, I can report to all that the fixes appear to be working as
advertised.
Grumpy
N184JM
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Traffic at FL60... |
And also thank the mission guys (and Gals) at Nellis that work wierd,
long, hours. I'm truly amazed at what they do. Heck, I had enough
trouble with an R/C airplane I could see, much less control one on the
other side of the globe. Kudos, Guys & Gals, and you know who you are!!!
Linn
do not archive
Steven Roberts wrote:
> Off topic again but this is just too cool...
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Global Hawk
>
> (Pic deleted for bandwidth)
>
> A pic of the Global Hawk UAV that returned from Iraq on Monday under
> its own power. (Iraq to Edwards AFB in CA) - Not transported via C5 or
> C17. Notice the mission paintings on the fuselage. It's actually over
> 250 missions. That's a long way for a remotely-piloted aircraft. Think
> of the technology (and the required quality of the data link to fly it
> remotely). Not only that but the pilot controlled it from a nice warm
> control panel at Edwards AFB. It has really long legs - - -it can stay
> up for almost 2 days at altitudes above 60k.
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Traffic at FL60... |
Sorry, The nellis folks fly the predator, not the hawk ...... but then
my info is rather dated! Either way ...... great job!!!
Linn
linn Walters wrote:
> And also thank the mission guys (and Gals) at Nellis that work wierd,
> long, hours. I'm truly amazed at what they do. Heck, I had enough
> trouble with an R/C airplane I could see, much less control one on the
> other side of the globe. Kudos, Guys & Gals, and you know who you are!!!
> Linn
> do not archive
> Steven Roberts wrote:
>
>> Off topic again but this is just too cool...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Global Hawk
>>
>> (Pic deleted for bandwidth)
>>
>
>> A pic of the Global Hawk UAV that returned from Iraq on Monday under
>> its own power. (Iraq to Edwards AFB in CA) - Not transported via C5
>> or C17. Notice the mission paintings on the fuselage. It's actually
>> over 250 missions. That's a long way for a remotely-piloted aircraft.
>> Think of the technology (and the required quality of the data link to
>> fly it remotely). Not only that but the pilot controlled it from a
>> nice warm control panel at Edwards AFB. It has really long legs - -
>> -it can stay up for almost 2 days at altitudes above 60k.
>>
>>
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: High Oil Temps |
I used to think my Mooney ran 220 based on factory crappy gage. Put in
UBG16 and found I run 195-200 most of the time and can keep it under 210
without much trouble. I consider 210 where I need to take action to
reduce temps.
KM
KCHD
Deems Davis wrote:
>
> "Scott, I will be very interested in your progress on this issue. I
> live in Phoenix, and high temperatures is a fact of life. talking w/
> fellows @ EAA chpt mtgs. reveals that the RV6,7,8" guys all buy the
> biggest and most efficient oil cooler they can. I was told of one that
> was 20% more efficient than the one that Van's ships, I don't recall
> it's name/number but could find out if you need the info. Some have
> had success mounting the oil cooler directly behind the #4 cyl on the
> baffling as opposed to the firewall. I doubt there's room enough on
> the -10 for this to work.
>
> Here's a quote from my Lycoming Operators Manual O-540,IO-540 Series:
> Section 3 page 3-9 /" Oil temperature: The maximum permissible oil
> temperature is 245 deg F (118C). for maximum engine life, desired oil
> temperature should be maintained between 165 deg F (73.8C) and 200F
> (93.3C) in level flight cruise conditions ".
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
> http://deemsrv10.com/
> /
>
>
> Scott Schmidt wrote:
>> Need some advise. *
>> *
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | They need an RV10 at Nellis AFB Next Year...They need |
an RV10 at Nellis AFB Next Year...
Just me, Rick, and Chris. You can get me days at 702 652-4378 and nights on
the cell at 702 767-3587
Bob K
Finishing, 90/90 and falling behind.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 1:08 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: They need an RV10 at Nellis AFB Next Year...They
need an RV10 at Nellis AFB Next Year...
Hey, speaking of Nellis. I'm in Vegas this week for conferences and
training. Anyone building around here? Contact me off list.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 limbo
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 5:52 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: They need an RV10 at Nellis AFB Next Year...They
need an RV10 at Nellis AFB Next Year...
Bob K. and Rick S. will have to twist my arm about as hard as they twisted
it to get a flight in my RV-10 last year to get me to fly into Nellis AFB
for the airshow.
Russ Daves
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: High Oil Temps |
Might be worth check the oil temp sender for accuracy first.
Kevin
40494
tail/empennage
do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schmidt
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: High Oil Temps
Mark, do you have any pictures of the louvers you can send me?
If any of you can think about the name of the more efficient oil
cooler I would be interested. It was not that warm out on Saturday and
I wasn't too concerned with 220, it was just much different than I have
previously seen.
I can only imagine what would happen here in Utah when temps get to
90+. I will have add a water injection unit for the oil cooler like the
Reno racers have.
I would like to have a system where I rarely see above 200F.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Mark Ritter <mritter509@msn.com>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 11:57:46 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: High Oil Temps
Scott,
Flew to Baja recently with two passengers and about 60 pounds of bags.
OAT's were well into the 70's and lower 80's on climb outs. On climb
out
(1,000+ fpm) oil temp would climb to 205. It came down to 185 as soon
as I
lowered the nose once reaching cruising altitude.
I generally cruise at 65% - 70% of power for a reference. On hot days
(75+)
before I added the louvers on the bottom cowl the oil temp was in the
210-212 range in cruise and 220+ when climbing. With the louvers I'm
seeing
185. Even with the louvers I have to reduce power and climb angle on
hot
hot days to keep the oil temp below 200. Before adding the louvers my
cowl
was extremely hot to the touch and now its just warm. I think having
a
larger opening in the bottom of the cowl for the heat to exit helped
lower
the oil temp.
Bracing for when it really gets hot here in Texas.
Mark (N410MR)
>From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt@yahoo.com>
>To: RV-10 List <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV10-List: High Oil Temps
>Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:36:30 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Need some advise. On Saturday I loaded up the plane and went to Moab
UT
>for the day (about an hour flight). We hung out for the day, went to
the
>car show down there, rented a Jeep and did a couple trials and then
headed
>home.
>We left around 8:00pm. The outside air temp was around 74 when we
took off.
> Before starting my engine the oil temp was 101 F. I took off flew
south
>over Moab, then down on the Colorado River and began climbing to the
north.
> While climbing I noticed my oil temps at 220 F. I have never seen
them
>that high and I was right over the airport so I landed and thought my
>ducting had fallen off.
>I took off the cowl, and everything looked perfect. Thought a bird
or
>something else might have gone down the ducting and covered the oil
cooler
>but it looked perfect when I checked that. Tim took my call late at
night
>while he was watching a movie just so I could have a second head
thinking
>about anything else I might have missed.
>I put the cowling back on and took off by myself and flew around. I
really
>had to climb slow to get it to 200 F but everything looked normal.
So the
>four of us loaded up and we were off. I typically climb around 100
to 105.
> On climb out the temps went to around 205 and maxed at 210. Once I
was
>at 9500 they went to 195 to 200 and then seemed to stabilize around
190.
>These still seem higher than I have had in the past. I am use to
temps
>around 170 to 180.
>I typically just fly with my wife and I and most the flying has been
in the
>winter. My CHT's and EGT's look the same as they normally did, only
my oil
>temps have changed. This was the warmest weather I have flown in
with 4
>people but I was still climbing at 105 knots. Sure my climb rate may
be
>lower but the cooling should be the same. All I can think of is the
angle
>of attack with 4 people changes the cooling rate into the oil cooler.
>
>Do many of you in the south go above 200 F very often? Where does
your oil
>temp run with 4 people with an OAT of 70 and power settings around
19.5 and
>2400?
>I will grab a few more test passengers and go do some more work
before
>adding a larger oil cooler or
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