Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:42 AM - Re: Establishing gross weight (Bob Leffler)
2. 04:53 AM - Start your engine (Wayne Edgerton)
3. 05:12 AM - Re: Establishing gross weight (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
4. 05:44 AM - OSH RV-10 Operatonr seminar was: Establishing gross weight (Deems Davis)
5. 05:51 AM - Re: Start your engine (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
6. 05:51 AM - Re: Start your engine (Kelly McMullen)
7. 05:54 AM - Re: Establishing gross weight (James K Hovis)
8. 06:01 AM - Re: Start your engine (Deems Davis)
9. 06:13 AM - Re: Start your engine (Rob Kermanj)
10. 06:43 AM - Re: Establishing gross weight (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
11. 06:47 AM - Re: Gear leg geometry (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
12. 07:01 AM - Re: Establishing gross weight (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
13. 07:33 AM - Re: Establishing gross weight (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
14. 07:34 AM - Re: Screw removal (Vern W. Smith)
15. 07:39 AM - Re: Start your engine (John W. Cox)
16. 07:39 AM - Re: Establishing gross weight (JSMcGrew@aol.com)
17. 07:51 AM - Re: Establishing gross weight (Jesse Saint)
18. 07:51 AM - Re: Start your engine (Jesse Saint)
19. 08:04 AM - Re: Comm antenna placement (Vern W. Smith)
20. 08:07 AM - Re: Start your engine (Jesse Saint)
21. 08:07 AM - Re: Start your engine (Rob Kermanj)
22. 08:29 AM - Re: Screw removal (Jesse Saint)
23. 08:36 AM - Re: Establishing gross weight (John Ackerman)
24. 08:45 AM - Re: Establishing gross weight (Tim Olson)
25. 09:02 AM - yellow RV-10 in Kelowna BC (Werner Schneider)
26. 09:04 AM - OSH (gary)
27. 09:15 AM - Re: Start your engine (Sam Marlow)
28. 09:20 AM - Re: Establishing gross weight (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
29. 09:41 AM - Re: Establishing gross weight (James K Hovis)
30. 10:59 AM - Re: Establishing gross weight (GRANSCOTT@aol.com)
31. 11:33 AM - Re: OSH (Tim Olson)
32. 11:43 AM - Re: Start your engine (Rob Kermanj)
33. 11:45 AM - Re: yellow RV-10 in Kelowna BC (Ted French)
34. 11:46 AM - Re: Re: nose wheel cocked in flight (Robert Wright)
35. 12:07 PM - Re: OSH (Randy)
36. 12:09 PM - Re: Re: nose wheel cocked in flight (Tim Olson)
37. 12:52 PM - HEADER TANK (Randy)
38. 12:57 PM - Re: OSH ()
39. 01:09 PM - Batterydied (Wayne Edgerton)
40. 01:09 PM - Re: Establishing gross weight (Bob Leffler)
41. 01:11 PM - Re: HEADER TANK (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
42. 01:13 PM - Re: OSH (Vern W. Smith)
43. 01:57 PM - HEADER TANK (Randy)
44. 02:50 PM - Re: Screw removal (Eric_Kallio)
45. 03:05 PM - Re: Re: Screw removal (Randy DeBauw)
46. 04:01 PM - Re: OSH (John W. Cox)
47. 04:04 PM - Re: OSH (John W. Cox)
48. 04:10 PM - Re: Screw removal (John W. Cox)
49. 05:37 PM - Re: Establishing gross weight (Kelly McMullen)
50. 05:40 PM - Battery Charger (David Hertner)
51. 06:20 PM - Re: Re: Screw removal (Bruce Patton)
52. 06:45 PM - Re: Batterydied (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
53. 06:48 PM - Re: Battery Charger (Larry Rosen)
54. 07:37 PM - Re: Battery Charger (Tim Olson)
55. 09:11 PM - Re: Establishing gross weight (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
56. 09:23 PM - Re: Start your engine (KiloPapa)
57. 11:10 PM - Re: Start your engine (Steven DiNieri)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Establishing gross weight |
Great idea!
I'm in....
At my point of build, I'm an information sponge on anything RV-10.
Bob
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 11:01 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Establishing gross weight
Anybody want to talk about an RV-10 Operator's Seminar at OSH like Lancair
does? So we can hammer out these issues.
John Cox
Do not Archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Start your engine |
There comes a time with every builder when he or she hears someone deep
inside the hangar say "Gentlemen start your engine" :>} and today was
that day for me. I was able to roll the plane out of the hangar and
fired this bird up. There were a few small glitch's, like you've got to
remember to turn on the fuel value :>}
I had trouble with my EI engine monitor going off line each time I tried
to start the engine. We ended up putting an analog gauge on the engine
for oil pressure and forged on. The EI unit has a know problem that when
there is a voltage drop, like starting the engine, the unit shuts down.
But as soon as the engine starts it comes back on line. I have to send
the unit in for an update to it to fix the problem. The RPM was also
acting goofy. Hell at one point I got 3800 RPM. This problem was to do
with the Lazar system emitting to much interference and they are sending
me out a noise filtering unit to fix that problem.
We had to adjust the mixture and idle a couple of times, luckily for me
a neighbor on the field and a good friend is great with engines so he
saved my bacon.
One other problem I ran into was that my battery wouldn't turn over the
engine enough to start it so we had to jump start it with battery
cables. I'm overnight charging the battery but I think the battery is
either going or already gone to battery heaven. It's a new Odyssey
battery !
Anyway I thought I would report my progress. I've attached a couple of
pictures for your perusal.
Small RV grin in place right now with a bigger one hopefully to follow
shortly :>}
Wayne Edgerton #40336
Message 3
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| Subject: | Establishing gross weight |
Absolutely, count me in!
Bob
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 11:01 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Establishing gross weight
Weighing IN. VANS has done it with testing!
My favorite quip goes like this "The tree of life Is Self Pruning".
* Lancair builders (and other manipulators) have all too often
"Pen Whipped" their gross weight number to achieve an artificial Useable
Weight calculation.
* DARs can often be bought for money. You can even sneak things
by them - they are human.
* Ignorance can be corrected with solid Life Experiences and a
sound Education... Stupidity is a hereditary thing.
* Pilot's often "Pen Whip an Aeronautical Logbook" or their
"Engine Logbook". It is why the FAA wants it in pen not pencil.
You have only your god and the pain and suffering of the surviving
family members to answer too when you fool with irrefutable engineering
evidence. Newton got it right years ago. Often the heaviest and
juiciest apple falls first from the tree. Get some education, study the
issue, live long enough to amass wisdom and sound personal experience.
Screw with the Insurance Underwriters and Attorneys and I assure you
that your life will be less enjoyable. I stand ready to serve as an
"expert witness" who will fly anywhere, at any time, for any individual
or group of individuals who desire to keep aviation safer and with lower
insurance costs. Another perspective, do something unquestionably
stupid and injurious to the rest of us builders and be prepared to spend
a lot of money. Corner cutting set you up for the spring tree pruning
ritual.
Anybody want to talk about an RV-10 Operator's Seminar at OSH like
Lancair does? So we can hammer out these issues.
John Cox
Do not Archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 6:27 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Establishing gross weight
Modifying the gross weight is very little different from a lot of the
other non-Van's-approved mods. The plane was engineered for a 260HP (or
less) IO-540 with 60 gallons of fuel, 180Kts max cruise, etc. etc. etc.
If you want to put in a Subaru, Mazda, turbo-Lycoming, 120Gal tanks, tip
tanks, IFR panel (why would you do this unless you were going to fly IFR
in a plane that was designed to be strictly VFR?), etc, you are
modifying the design. The nice thing about the amateur-built
experimental category is that you are free to do that, even though you
might make Van's mad.
Really and truly, I think the gross weight should be established during
the fly-off period. How is the builder going to establish a gross
weight when he hasn't even flown the plane? But, since you have to (I
am sure you, as the repairman, can modify it down the road in the log
books if you choose to) establish a pre-airworthy gross weight, then you
have to guess. Most people will go with the 2,700, many of whom will
fly it however feels comfortable, whether it is 2,700 or 3,000.
Selecting a gross weight different than what Van's recommends will
really only become an issue if/when there is an accident. If you are
flying over your established gross weight and crash, the insurance
company will not want to pay if they can establish that you were
overweight. If you are flying within a gross weight over what Van's
recommends and you crash, the insurance company will not be able to not
pay because of the weight unless there is a clause in the contract that
requires that you build exactly to the plans, which I doubt there is.
Then you may start causing problems for other people because insurance
rates may go up. Some people modify their gross weight simply because
they can. The plane will carry 2,900 lbs and still climb to 15,000+
feet (I think ;-) ). From there it is completely up to you. Also, even
if you put your gross weight at 2,700, what are the implications of
flying over gross weight?
For others (JC's response expected here), what are the implications of
flying over you established gross weight? Does that just become an
issue if you crash and don't burn?
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
Edgerton
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 7:37 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Establishing gross weight
I saw on a weight and balance list at www.rvproject.com/wab/ that there
is some differences on selecting a max gross weight. Vans recommends
2700, but used 2758 on their 10, but on this list there's a 2850 and a
2900. How does one come up with the conclusion or decision to increase
the gross weight over Vans recommended? My empty weight came in somewhat
higher than the others at 1749 but I've put a ton of stuff in the panel
and many extra items including a full leather interior, four place O2,
overhead console, etc. It is what it is.
Obviously it would be nice to have a higher gross weight but I'm not
sure how one justifies going beyond the recommended gross weight.
Anyone have any great insight into this? I did a archive search but
didn't seem to find much.
Wayne Edgerton #40336
sent my papers off to the DAR so I'm hopefully getting close
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
Message 4
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| Subject: | OSH RV-10 Operatonr seminar was: Establishing gross weight |
Let's do it!
How can we make this happen?
I'm willing to assist, with the caveat, that I am NOT qualified to
provide the content but willing to help assist in the organization,
administration and delivery.
Perhaps this could be a step towards a Pilot Proficiency program?
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
http://deemsrv10.com/
John W. Cox wrote:
> OSH
>
> Anybody want to talk about an RV-10 Operators Seminar at OSH like
> Lancair does? So we can hammer out these issues.
>
> John Cox
>
> *
> *
Message 5
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| Subject: | Start your engine |
Just a reminder to anyone using Odyssey style batteries, they do not like
being run flat. Check them every couple months to make sure they are topp
ed off and if you are using them for testing I would recommend keeping a ch
arger on them to make sure they are full. They keep their charge exceeding
ly well when in storage but they still need to be checked. If you run them
flat they are basically a paperweight.
And congratulations Wayne, that's another big milestone!
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Limbo
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Edgerton
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 6:49 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Start your engine
There comes a time with every builder when he or she hears someone deep ins
ide the hangar say "Gentlemen start your engine" :>} and today was that da
y for me. I was able to roll the plane out of the hangar and fired this bir
d up. There were a few small glitch's, like you've got to remember to turn
on the fuel value :>}
I had trouble with my EI engine monitor going off line each time I tried to
start the engine. We ended up putting an analog gauge on the engine for oi
l pressure and forged on. The EI unit has a know problem that when there is
a voltage drop, like starting the engine, the unit shuts down. But as soon
as the engine starts it comes back on line. I have to send the unit in for
an update to it to fix the problem. The RPM was also acting goofy. Hell at
one point I got 3800 RPM. This problem was to do with the Lazar system emi
tting to much interference and they are sending me out a noise filtering un
it to fix that problem.
We had to adjust the mixture and idle a couple of times, luckily for me a n
eighbor on the field and a good friend is great with engines so he saved my
bacon.
One other problem I ran into was that my battery wouldn't turn over the eng
ine enough to start it so we had to jump start it with battery cables. I'm
overnight charging the battery but I think the battery is either going or a
lready gone to battery heaven. It's a new Odyssey battery !
Anyway I thought I would report my progress. I've attached a couple of pict
ures for your perusal.
Small RV grin in place right now with a bigger one hopefully to follow shor
tly :>}
Wayne Edgerton #40336
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Start your engine |
Congrats. My UBG16 manual specifically requires it to be off during
start. Only takes it about 5 secs to boot up when I switch it on.
On 5/18/07, Wayne Edgerton <wayne.e@grandecom.net> wrote:
>
> There comes a time with every builder when he or she hears someone deep
> inside the hangar say "Gentlemen start your engine" :>} and today was that
> day for me. I was able to roll the plane out of the hangar and fired this
> bird up. There were a few small glitch's, like you've got to remember to
> turn on the fuel value :>}
>
> I had trouble with my EI engine monitor going off line each time I tried to
> start the engine. We ended up putting an analog gauge on the engine for oil
> pressure and forged on. The EI unit has a know problem that when there is a
> voltage drop, like starting the engine, the unit shuts down. But as soon as
> the engine starts it comes back on line. I have to send the unit in for an
> update to it to fix the problem. The RPM was also acting goofy. Hell at one
> point I got 3800 RPM. This problem was to do with the Lazar system emitting
> to much interference and they are sending me out a noise filtering unit to
> fix that problem.
>
> We had to adjust the mixture and idle a couple of times, luckily for me a
> neighbor on the field and a good friend is great with engines so he saved my
> bacon.
>
> One other problem I ran into was that my battery wouldn't turn over the
> engine enough to start it so we had to jump start it with battery cables.
> I'm overnight charging the battery but I think the battery is either going
> or already gone to battery heaven. It's a new Odyssey battery !
>
> Anyway I thought I would report my progress. I've attached a couple of
> pictures for your perusal.
>
> Small RV grin in place right now with a bigger one hopefully to follow
> shortly :>}
>
> Wayne Edgerton #40336
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Establishing gross weight |
A quick (hopefully) education on material properties. Metals when
placed under load will stretch or compress a certain amount
proportional to the load applied. When the load is removed, the metal
will go back to its original shape. This is called elastic
deformation. Increasing loads will stretch or compress the metal
elastically in a linear fashion up to a certain stress level called
the "Yield Point". The stress at this point is "Yield Stress". Loads
applied beyond the yield point will deform the metal plastically,
meaning when such a load is removed, the metal DOES NOT return to its
original shape. This will continue up to a point where the metal will
actually break, the "Ultimate Stress". Look at FAR 23.305, limit loads
(3.8G for Normal cat.)must not permanently deform the structure and
the structure must withstand the ultimate loads (5.7G) for three
seconds without failure (breaking). Therefore, yield stress is often
used at limit load to size the structure. Any loading exceeding the
limit load will deform the structure rendering unuseable, but
hopefully not breaking. However, I don't know what philosophy Van's
used. I assume a very conservative approach.
Kevin H.
On 5/17/07, JSMcGrew@aol.com <JSMcGrew@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Dan,
>
> I'm only responding because I think builders should think long and hard
> before making the decision to increase Van's recommended limits. I don't
> want to
> see any statistics in our group. The RV-10 was designed to handle 3.8G's
> with
> a ~1.5 safety margin (~5.7G ultimate). Anything you do beyond the design
> conditions cuts into said safety margin.
>
> By your argument the C-5 Galaxy with a maximum gross weight of 840,000 lbs
> x
> 3.8G's can handle 3,192,000# of load. So when at low fuel weight (374,000#)
> it should be able to pull 3,192,000# / 374,000# = 8.5 G's. That would be
> something to see, however, that is simply not the case; it just doesn't
> work that
> way.
>
> You can justify all you want. I still don't recommend it.
>
> -Jim
>
> In a message dated 5/17/2007 12:27:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> LloydDR@wernerco.com writes:
>
> We are not talking safety margins, we are talking an aircraft rated in the
> standard category and as such will sustain 3.8G's without structural
> failure.
> Nuff said. If the location of the additional 200 LBS keeps the plane in CG
> than there will not be an issue in standard flight conditions, what is
> unknown
> is how the plane will react when the plane is stressed past the max load
> breaking point of 3.8G's x 2700lbs or 10,260LBS total. Then once you get
> past
> this point there is the safety margin that is built in, but unless you go
> past
> the 10,260 LBS limit then there is nothing new being discovered.
>
> Dan
>
>
> ____________________________________
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JSMcGrew@aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:00 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Establishing gross weight
>
>
> The design safety margins are established to account for variations in
> construction, fatigue, turbulence, variations in piloting, engineering
> mistakes
> etc. etc., all of which are fairly difficult to predict when they will
> happen
> or what the effect will be. Furthermore, an aircraft experiences many
> different stresses during the course of a flight (besides just holding the
> airplane
> up in level flight). You need a thorough engineering analysis to understand
> the effects a deviation from the design conditions will have on the
> airframe in
> various flight conditions.
>
> I recommend sticking to Van's established limits (weight limits and all
> others) unless one is willing and capable of performing such an analysis.
>
> -Jim McGrew
> 40134
>
>
> Jim "Scooter" McGrew
> _http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew)
>
>
> In a message dated 5/17/2007 11:35:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> LloydDR@wernerco.com writes:
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR@wernerco.com>
>
> Let me clarify my position, Like you have stated the plane has already
> had a static test of its 2700 lbs, which means the wing will need to
> support 3.8 times that to be in the standard category, which means
> theoretically both wings together will withstand 10,260 lbs and not
> fail. With this being said, it would not be a long stretch stating that
> an additional 200 pounds in the right location will not cause an issue
> during normal flight and clear non-turbulent conditions. I did not state
> that it was a smart thing to do and go fly in turbulence, what I did
> state was set it high, flight test it and adjust as necessary.
>
> Dan N289DT RV10E
>
>
> Jim "Scooter" McGrew
> _http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew)
>
>
> ************************************** See what's free at
> http://www.aol.com.
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Start your engine |
Good Work Wayne! Congratulations, keep us all posted, on your progress
as it's inspiring to those of us following behind you.
THANKS
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
http://deemsrv10.com/
Do Not Archive
Wayne Edgerton wrote:
> There comes a time with every builder when he or she hears someone
> deep inside the hangar say "Gentlemen start your engine" :>} and
> today was that day for me.
>
>
> Small RV grin in place right now with a bigger one hopefully to follow
> shortly :>}
>
> Wayne Edgerton #40336
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Start your engine |
At the risk of starting a battery brand war, I would like to offer an
alternative to Odessey.
I have been using Sears handicap battery for 15 years in my planes.
This battery, combined with a L model Skytech starter, will crank
your IO540 for ever (especially when you have trouble with Hot
Starts). I have actually never seen the end of the life on this
battery, I just replace it every three years as a precaution. This
battery costs less, lasts longer, It is available to pick up 7 days a
week and if you let it go flat, you just recharge it. Another bonus
is that it fits the existing battery tray in all RVs without any
modifications.
I have seen enough neighbors with Odessey batteries laying on shelf
as "Paper Weight".
Do not archive.
Rob
On May 18, 2007, at 8:50 AM, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
> Just a reminder to anyone using Odyssey style batteries, they do
> not like being run flat. Check them every couple months to make
> sure they are topped off and if you are using them for testing I
> would recommend keeping a charger on them to make sure they are
> full. They keep their charge exceedingly well when in storage but
> they still need to be checked. If you run them flat they are
> basically a paperweight.
>
>
> And congratulations Wayne, that=92s another big milestone!
>
>
> Michael Sausen
>
> -10 #352 Limbo
>
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Edgerton
> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 6:49 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Start your engine
>
>
> There comes a time with every builder when he or she hears someone
> deep inside the hangar say "Gentlemen start your engine" :>} and
> today was that day for me. I was able to roll the plane out of the
> hangar and fired this bird up. There were a few small glitch's,
> like you've got to remember to turn on the fuel value :>}
>
>
> I had trouble with my EI engine monitor going off line each time I
> tried to start the engine. We ended up putting an analog gauge on
> the engine for oil pressure and forged on. The EI unit has a know
> problem that when there is a voltage drop, like starting the
> engine, the unit shuts down. But as soon as the engine starts it
> comes back on line. I have to send the unit in for an update to it
> to fix the problem. The RPM was also acting goofy. Hell at one
> point I got 3800 RPM. This problem was to do with the Lazar system
> emitting to much interference and they are sending me out a noise
> filtering unit to fix that problem.
>
>
> We had to adjust the mixture and idle a couple of times, luckily
> for me a neighbor on the field and a good friend is great with
> engines so he saved my bacon.
>
>
> One other problem I ran into was that my battery wouldn't turn over
> the engine enough to start it so we had to jump start it with
> battery cables. I'm overnight charging the battery but I think the
> battery is either going or already gone to battery heaven. It's a
> new Odyssey battery !
>
>
> Anyway I thought I would report my progress. I've attached a couple
> of pictures for your perusal.
>
>
> Small RV grin in place right now with a bigger one hopefully to
> follow shortly :>}
>
>
> Wayne Edgerton #40336
>
List
> ========================
> ========================
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Establishing gross weight |
Jim
I agree with you, but if you read my post I stated that testing of the
new weight was a requirement. Since you bring in the military, lets
point this out, the DC3 was designed for 26k lbs, and when it was put
into military service as a C-47, the max weight was increased to 28K,
this increased weight was determined acceptable by testing, and all I am
saying is that it is okay to increase the max gross weight and test to
make sure it is ok. Another option in this scenario is that a max
takeoff weight, and a max landing weight be established and a fuel
jettison system be installed, it is routine practice to overload an
aircraft, knowing that fuel burn in flight will allow the aircraft to
return within limits, so if Wayne wanted to he could designate a max
takeoff weight that matches his adjusted gross and then put in the op
limitations that when landing it is not to exceed Vans recommended
weight, and this could be accomplished by fuel burn/ jettison.
The venerable Cessna 172 has had its max weight increased several times
during its life, equaling several hundred pounds and without structural
modification. This was accomplished by continued testing and analyzing
the results. This is all I am recommending him to do.
We are experimental builders after all and the purpose is to experiment,
if you are not willing to do that then buy a certified plane and be
assured that the plane was tested by someone else. But if you are
wanting to further yourself and your skills, and learn what testing is
about then buy an experimental and experiment, that is our right as
builders and test pilots.
Dan
N289DT RV10E (Experimenting with an alternative power plant and loving
every minute of not doing what is accepted by Van's, I am such a rebel!)
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JSMcGrew@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Establishing gross weight
Dan,
I'm only responding because I think builders should think long and hard
before making the decision to increase Van's recommended limits. I don't
want to see any statistics in our group. The RV-10 was designed to
handle 3.8G's with a ~1.5 safety margin (~5.7G ultimate). Anything you
do beyond the design conditions cuts into said safety margin.
By your argument the C-5 Galaxy with a maximum gross weight of 840,000
lbs x 3.8G's can handle 3,192,000# of load. So when at low fuel weight
(374,000#) it should be able to pull 3,192,000# / 374,000# = 8.5 G's.
That would be something to see, however, that is simply not the case; it
just doesn't work that way.
You can justify all you want. I still don't recommend it.
-Jim
In a message dated 5/17/2007 12:27:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
LloydDR@wernerco.com writes:
We are not talking safety margins, we are talking an aircraft
rated in the standard category and as such will sustain 3.8G's without
structural failure. Nuff said. If the location of the additional 200 LBS
keeps the plane in CG than there will not be an issue in standard flight
conditions, what is unknown is how the plane will react when the plane
is stressed past the max load breaking point of 3.8G's x 2700lbs or
10,260LBS total. Then once you get past this point there is the safety
margin that is built in, but unless you go past the 10,260 LBS limit
then there is nothing new being discovered.
Dan
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JSMcGrew@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:00 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Establishing gross weight
The design safety margins are established to account for
variations in construction, fatigue, turbulence, variations in piloting,
engineering mistakes etc. etc., all of which are fairly difficult to
predict when they will happen or what the effect will be. Furthermore,
an aircraft experiences many different stresses during the course of a
flight (besides just holding the airplane up in level flight). You need
a thorough engineering analysis to understand the effects a deviation
from the design conditions will have on the airframe in various flight
conditions.
I recommend sticking to Van's established limits (weight limits
and all others) unless one is willing and capable of performing such an
analysis.
-Jim McGrew
40134
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew
In a message dated 5/17/2007 11:35:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight
Time, LloydDR@wernerco.com writes:
<LloydDR@wernerco.com>
Let me clarify my position, Like you have stated the
plane has already
had a static test of its 2700 lbs, which means the wing
will need to
support 3.8 times that to be in the standard category,
which means
theoretically both wings together will withstand 10,260
lbs and not
fail. With this being said, it would not be a long
stretch stating that
an additional 200 pounds in the right location will not
cause an issue
during normal flight and clear non-turbulent conditions.
I did not state
that it was a smart thing to do and go fly in
turbulence, what I did
state was set it high, flight test it and adjust as
necessary.
Dan N289DT RV10E
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew
_____
See what's free at AOL.com
<http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Gear leg geometry |
Just keep more fuel in the high side and she will sit proud!
Dan
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 7:16 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Gear leg geometry
Guys,
Thanks for the replies both on and off list. Jesse - no preloading,
weldments were a bitch to install, but fit fine with no shims or hole
misalignment. Vans suggest I am indeed being a bit too anal and that I
am '. . . a victim of manufacturing tolerance stackup.' They commend
the idea of installing the pants while the fuse is on the bench (as
previously endorsed by the list).
After sleeping on it and doing the math, best I can calculate is that if
there is a 3/8" height difference between the gear legs, there will be
about 1.5" difference in height between the wingtips. As Dan points
out, indiscernable after the acft is loaded.
The key factor is to ensure that the fairings are properly aligned
during flight, so the strategy appears to be to press on, make sure the
acft is absolutely level and treat each pant separately. Pity she will
have a bit of a lean (if you look reeeeal closely) when parked.
cheers,
Ron
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel
R.
Sent: Thursday, 17 May 2007 11:42 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Gear leg geometry
Your airplane will likely never sit level anywhere. The loading of each
side of the airplane is rarely equally distributed, think single pilot
operation, and this could easily make one side of the plane sit lower
than the other, uneven taxi etc. This small of a difference should not
amount to anything, as long as each wheel pant is done correctly.
Dan
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 9:15 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Gear leg geometry
Although I have not seen this difference before personally, it does not
completely surprise me. In fact, I think I remember somebody else
mentioning it on the list in the past, although I am not sure. It may
be worth taking it off the bench and then measuring, leveling, checking
to see if it is even then. If not, then it may be an issue because the
plane may not sit level. On the other hand, with that long arm, =BC"
with no weight could be just about anything, however minor. If the
plane sits level when parked, then I wouldn't worry about it and just
rig the pants for the least drag when flying (at 200mph nobody will be
looking up and saying, "hey, one of his gear legs is lower than the
other). Again, the biggest issue, IMHO, would be whether or not the
fuse will sit flat once you get the engine, wings, pilot, passengers,
etc loaded up. Even =BC" there probably would be hard to notice over
8', because that would be about =BC degree off level if my math is
correct.
Is it possible that something is "preloading" one of the gear legs
either on your table or inside? Are your weldments completely secured
and torqued (with no unwanted burs/shims anywhere)?
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 7:49 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Gear leg geometry
G'day all,
I was working the wheel pants this evening. Gear is on, but the fuse
is still resting on the workbench. I leveled at the mid cabin deck in
pitch and roll. When I measured the distance between the floor and
bottom of the wheel I found a 3/8" difference. The shed floor is flat.
The distance between the floor and spar corners is within 1/8",
suggesting a difference in gear leg angles of 1/4-3/8".
Best I can tell is that there must be a slight difference in the gear
leg weldments to result in the offset. Has anyone else noticed this?
Is the 3/8" difference a problem? Will this cause a problem in properly
aligning the wheel pants?
Given the accuracy of the kit up to this point, I am a little surprised
with this. Maybe I'm just getting too anal.
thanks in advance
Ron
187 finishing
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 12
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| Subject: | Establishing gross weight |
I agree whole heartedly with this, how do we set it up and coordinate
the effort?
Dan
N289DT
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 6:39 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Establishing gross weight
Great idea!
I'm in............
At my point of build, I'm an information sponge on anything RV-10.
Bob
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 11:01 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Establishing gross weight
Anybody want to talk about an RV-10 Operator's Seminar at OSH like
Lancair does? So we can hammer out these issues.
John Cox
Do not Archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Establishing gross weight |
I can see something that starts off very informal until it hit's a critic
al mass that we could approach EAA for forum space. In the mean time I wou
ld suggest that someone (JC) starts developing some talking points that see
m to be of interest to the list. We could then convert one of the daily me
eting times at Van's tent to a one hour lunch and learn session someplace t
hat isn't in use with picnic tables or chairs. Very much a round table typ
e session unless someone of expertise would have a presentation that they f
eel would be useful.
Thoughts?
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R.
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:01 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Establishing gross weight
I agree whole heartedly with this, how do we set it up and coordinate the e
ffort?
Dan
N289DT
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 6:39 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Establishing gross weight
Great idea!
I'm in............
At my point of build, I'm an information sponge on anything RV-10.
Bob
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 11:01 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Establishing gross weight
Anybody want to talk about an RV-10 Operator's Seminar at OSH like Lancair
does? So we can hammer out these issues.
John Cox
Do not Archive
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 14
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There is also another tool out there called an "Easy Out" (or that is
what I've always heard them called.) Same idea as what Rob suggested but
instead of being square they have a very course reversed thread. Most
industrial hardware stores carry them.
It may also be helpful to put a few drops of penetrating oil on the
screw's threads. Just clean it off before inserting a new screw.
Vern Smith (#324)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Kermanj
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Screw removal
Try Sears Screw Remover. They have one with a tapered square bit.
You drill a hole, as indicated on the removal bit and it almost makes
a square opening on the head of the screw. You then use a pipe
thread handle to with the removal bit to remove the screw.
Sorry that I cannot give part numbers but I know that Sears has them.
Do Not archive.
On May 17, 2007, at 5:36 PM, Eric_Kallio wrote:
>
> Well it was only a matter of time. I had a little assistance in
> installing the mounting screws for the fuel tank while I was off
> working on my thesis for grad school. 3 screws are stripped. Grit
> on the scrwedriver and my Proto screw removers have all failed to
> remove the screws. Any other methods out there that have worked for
> you? Got to get the wings out of the shop so I have room for the
> Fuse next week. Thanks.
>
> Eric Kallio
> 40518 Finishing SB wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113451#113451
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Start your engine |
Wayne that is most encouraging news and well appreciated here. Is that
a custom painted AeroComp propeller and what did the whole thing weigh
as installed? It makes me excited to think of your final paint job
coming.
John #600
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
Edgerton
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 4:49 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Start your engine
There comes a time with every builder when he or she hears someone deep
inside the hangar say "Gentlemen start your engine" :>} and today was
that day for me. I was able to roll the plane out of the hangar and
fired this bird up. There were a few small glitch's, like you've got to
remember to turn on the fuel value :>}
I had trouble with my EI engine monitor going off line each time I tried
to start the engine. We ended up putting an analog gauge on the engine
for oil pressure and forged on. The EI unit has a know problem that when
there is a voltage drop, like starting the engine, the unit shuts down.
But as soon as the engine starts it comes back on line. I have to send
the unit in for an update to it to fix the problem. The RPM was also
acting goofy. Hell at one point I got 3800 RPM. This problem was to do
with the Lazar system emitting to much interference and they are sending
me out a noise filtering unit to fix that problem.
We had to adjust the mixture and idle a couple of times, luckily for me
a neighbor on the field and a good friend is great with engines so he
saved my bacon.
One other problem I ran into was that my battery wouldn't turn over the
engine enough to start it so we had to jump start it with battery
cables. I'm overnight charging the battery but I think the battery is
either going or already gone to battery heaven. It's a new Odyssey
battery !
Anyway I thought I would report my progress. I've attached a couple of
pictures for your perusal.
Small RV grin in place right now with a bigger one hopefully to follow
shortly :>}
Wayne Edgerton #40336
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Establishing gross weight |
Dan,
Sure. I'm not against modifications, just modifications without proper
testing and analysis. I don't want builders in general to justify modifications
arbitrarily. I certainly don't have anything against you, please don't take my
previous post personally. I've had a lot of experience in military flying
and engineering and things don't always go optimally. For example I was flying
in a T-38 on an instrument check ride one day in clear VFR and got hit by
turbulence plus minus about 3 G's. I've never been thumped so hard out of the
blue. I hit my head on the canopy and got a splitting headache (that didn't help
the check pilot's attitude either). Think about negative G limits for the
RV-10 as well, they are a lot less. You never know when you might experience
some rough turbulence. I've personally chose to keep the weight limits at
2700. I ended up with a 1570# empty weight and that works out great for useful
load.
I spoke to Ken at Van's about the design process they used. It's really hard
to test and analyze all different possible stresses on an airframe. So, my
understanding is that they did point testing and analysis to ensure certain
conditions were met (like load testing the wing for ultimate loading). Then
designed so that the infinite number of in-between conditions would be met. It's
just hard to be certain you're OK without the know how and resources
available to Van's engineering team, the military, or Cessna etc.
Just food for thought. Good luck and keep building. I hope to see you at a
fly-in in the near future.
-Jim
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
_http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew)
In a message dated 5/18/2007 9:45:14 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
LloydDR@wernerco.com writes:
Jim
I agree with you, but if you read my post I stated that testing of the new
weight was a requirement. Since you bring in the military, lets point this
out, the DC3 was designed for 26k lbs, and when it was put into military service
as a C-47, the max weight was increased to 28K, this increased weight was
determined acceptable by testing, and all I am saying is that it is okay to
increase the max gross weight and test to make sure it is ok. Another option in
this scenario is that a max takeoff weight, and a max landing weight be
established and a fuel jettison system be installed, it is routine practice to
overload an aircraft, knowing that fuel burn in flight will allow the aircraft
to return within limits, so if Wayne wanted to he could designate a max
takeoff weight that matches his adjusted gross and then put in the op limitations
that when landing it is not to exceed Vans recommended weight, and this could
be accomplished by fuel burn/ jettison.
The venerable Cessna 172 has had its max weight increased several times
during its life, equaling several hundred pounds and without structural
modification. This was accomplished by continued testing and analyzing the results.
This is all I am recommending him to do.
We are experimental builders after all and the purpose is to experiment, if
you are not willing to do that then buy a certified plane and be assured that
the plane was tested by someone else. But if you are wanting to further
yourself and your skills, and learn what testing is about then buy an
experimental and experiment, that is our right as builders and test pilots.
Dan
N289DT RV10E (Experimenting with an alternative power plant and loving every
minute of not doing what is accepted by Van's, I am such a rebel!)
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Establishing gross weight |
Now that's what this list is for. What a great exchange of opinions, facts,
and ideas on all sides.
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
Message 18
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| Subject: | Start your engine |
Weight?
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Kermanj
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Start your engine
At the risk of starting a battery brand war, I would like to offer an
alternative to Odessey.
I have been using Sears handicap battery for 15 years in my planes. This
battery, combined with a L model Skytech starter, will crank your IO540 for
ever (especially when you have trouble with Hot Starts). I have actually
never seen the end of the life on this battery, I just replace it every
three years as a precaution. This battery costs less, lasts longer, It is
available to pick up 7 days a week and if you let it go flat, you just
recharge it. Another bonus is that it fits the existing battery tray in all
RVs without any modifications.
I have seen enough neighbors with Odessey batteries laying on shelf as
"Paper Weight".
Do not archive.
Rob
On May 18, 2007, at 8:50 AM, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
-10 #352 Limbo
From:There comes a time with every builder when he or she hears someone deep
inside the hangar say "Gentlemen start your engine" :>} and today was that
day for me. I was able to roll the plane out of the hangar and fired this
bird up. There were a few small glitch's, like you've got to remember to
turn on the fuel value :>}
We had to adjust the mixture and idle a couple of times, luckily for me a
neighbor on the field and a good friend is great with engines so he saved my
bacon.
Anyway I thought I would report my progress. I've attached a couple of
pictures for your perusal.
Wayne Edgerton #40336
- NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - class="Apple-converted-space">
--> <http://forums.matronics.com> http://forums.matronics.com
Message 19
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| Subject: | Comm antenna placement |
Marcus,
Thanks for sharing your findings. I know results are subjective without
measuring equipment, but it is great when people are willing to say 'hay
this is what I did and these are my impressions.' The way you use your
setup sounds like it perfectly matches your needs.
Vern Smith
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 5:32 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Comm antenna placement
Vern,
I use the whip primarily as it is tied to my Garmin 480 and the
foil is connected to the SL-30. I have never not been able to contact
anyone on the SL-30 and therefore switch to the 480 and have used it
intentionally numerous times to see how it works. During initial
testing I did a number of radio checks with the tower and it sounded
like they couldn't tell the difference (I wasn't that far away though).
My primary mode is to use the bent whip setup as primary and get
ATIS/talk to Unicom on the foil with great success.
I figured worst case I'd have to add another whip antenna and I'd only
be out $7 plus the coax to try it.
Marcus
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vern W. Smith
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 9:26 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Comm antenna placement
Marcus,
Have you had a chance to compare the performance of the foil roof mount
to your bent whip?
Vern (#324)
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 7:52 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Comm antenna placement
Vern,
I took a little different route. I put a bent whip antenna just
aft of the baggage compartment, and a $7 copper foil antenna on the
roof. I figured I wasn't out a thing to try it and it works great. It
also alleviated my concern of shadowing the antenna to tower while on
the ground, although I haven't had any issues with my belly mounted
antenna which I use with the primary radio.
Marcus
Message 20
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| Subject: | Start your engine |
Congratulations! Have you already had your inspection? If not, when? I
will respond below.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Edgerton
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:49 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Start your engine
There comes a time with every builder when he or she hears someone deep
inside the hangar say "Gentlemen start your engine" :>} and today was that
day for me. I was able to roll the plane out of the hangar and fired this
bird up. There were a few small glitch's, like you've got to remember to
turn on the fuel value :>}[Jesse Saint] Isn't that a great feeling? You're
not the first one on the fuel valve issue.
I had trouble with my EI engine monitor going off line each time I tried to
start the engine. We ended up putting an analog gauge on the engine for oil
pressure and forged on. The EI unit has a know problem that when there is a
voltage drop, like starting the engine, the unit shuts down. But as soon as
the engine starts it comes back on line. I have to send the unit in for an
update to it to fix the problem. The RPM was also acting goofy. Hell at one
point I got 3800 RPM. This problem was to do with the Lazar system emitting
to much interference and they are sending me out a noise filtering unit to
fix that problem.
[Jesse Saint] This is a great time to mention the settings on the RPM gauge
on anybody's engine monitor. We have had times that it read way low and we
couldn't figure out why it wasn't getting full power and then realized that
the sensor setting on the EMS was not correct. Before changing anything
with the Prop Governor or engine, get a visual tach, point it at the prop
and see what you are getting. That can help avoid big problems. Of course,
if you are reading higher than you are spinning, then it is not necessarily
as dangerous, but you still want to fix the reading before you start
adjusting. On the engine monitor, if the option is available to have a
backup battery, that is always a good way to go so you can have it on when
you start. I run my EFIS/EMS as the only instrument that comes on with the
master so it will be on for starting.
We had to adjust the mixture and idle a couple of times, luckily for me a
neighbor on the field and a good friend is great with engines so he saved my
bacon.
One other problem I ran into was that my battery wouldn't turn over the
engine enough to start it so we had to jump start it with battery cables.
I'm overnight charging the battery but I think the battery is either going
or already gone to battery heaven. It's a new Odyssey battery !
Anyway I thought I would report my progress. I've attached a couple of
pictures for your perusal.
Small RV grin in place right now with a bigger one hopefully to follow
shortly :>}
Wayne Edgerton #40336
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Start your engine |
Heavier than Odessey but don't know how much. Go to a Sears store
and check one out.
Do not archive.
On May 18, 2007, at 10:49 AM, Jesse Saint wrote:
> Weight?
>
>
> Jesse Saint
>
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
>
> jesse@saintaviation.com
>
> www.saintaviation.com
>
> Cell: 352-427-0285
>
> Fax: 815-377-3694
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Kermanj
> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:13 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Start your engine
>
>
> At the risk of starting a battery brand war, I would like to offer
> an alternative to Odessey.
>
>
> I have been using Sears handicap battery for 15 years in my
> planes. This battery, combined with a L model Skytech starter,
> will crank your IO540 for ever (especially when you have trouble
> with Hot Starts). I have actually never seen the end of the life
> on this battery, I just replace it every three years as a
> precaution. This battery costs less, lasts longer, It is available
> to pick up 7 days a week and if you let it go flat, you just
> recharge it. Another bonus is that it fits the existing battery
> tray in all RVs without any modifications.
>
>
> I have seen enough neighbors with Odessey batteries laying on shelf
> as "Paper Weight".
>
>
> Do not archive.
>
> Rob
>
>
> On May 18, 2007, at 8:50 AM, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
>
>
> -10 #352 Limbo
>
> From:There comes a time with every builder when he or she hears
> someone deep inside the hangar say "Gentlemen start your
> engine" :>} and today was that day for me. I was able to roll the
> plane out of the hangar and fired this bird up. There were a few
> small glitch's, like you've got to remember to turn on the fuel
> value :>}
>
>
> We had to adjust the mixture and idle a couple of times, luckily
> for me a neighbor on the field and a good friend is great with
> engines so he saved my bacon.
>
>
> Anyway I thought I would report my progress. I've attached a couple
> of pictures for your perusal.
>
>
> Wayne Edgerton #40336
>
> - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - class="Apple-converted-
> space"> --> http://forums.matronics.com
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List_-
> ============================================================ _-
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ===========================================================
>
Message 22
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I have had good success with Easy Outs (or whatever they are called, from
Sears). They look like a deburring bign backwards and chuck up in a drill.
I put them in a cordless DeWalt and turn it in reverse very slowly and they
take a bite and back the screw right out. YMMV, but they work great for me.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vern W. Smith
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 10:34 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Screw removal
There is also another tool out there called an "Easy Out" (or that is
what I've always heard them called.) Same idea as what Rob suggested but
instead of being square they have a very course reversed thread. Most
industrial hardware stores carry them.
It may also be helpful to put a few drops of penetrating oil on the
screw's threads. Just clean it off before inserting a new screw.
Vern Smith (#324)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Kermanj
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Screw removal
Try Sears Screw Remover. They have one with a tapered square bit.
You drill a hole, as indicated on the removal bit and it almost makes
a square opening on the head of the screw. You then use a pipe
thread handle to with the removal bit to remove the screw.
Sorry that I cannot give part numbers but I know that Sears has them.
Do Not archive.
On May 17, 2007, at 5:36 PM, Eric_Kallio wrote:
>
> Well it was only a matter of time. I had a little assistance in
> installing the mounting screws for the fuel tank while I was off
> working on my thesis for grad school. 3 screws are stripped. Grit
> on the scrwedriver and my Proto screw removers have all failed to
> remove the screws. Any other methods out there that have worked for
> you? Got to get the wings out of the shop so I have room for the
> Fuse next week. Thanks.
>
> Eric Kallio
> 40518 Finishing SB wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113451#113451
>
>
--
5:18 PM
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Establishing gross weight |
> With this being said, it would not be a long stretch stating that
> an additional 200 pounds in the right location will not cause an issue
> during normal flight and clear non-turbulent conditions.
>
So, among other things, we need to know...
What is a "long stretch"?
How do we know what a "long stretch" is?
CG aside, what is a "right location" and what is not? How do we know?
> ...and clear non-turbulent conditions. I did not state that it was
> a smart thing to do and go fly in turbulence, what I did
> state was set it high, flight test it and adjust as necessary.
>
> Really and truly, I think the gross weight should be established
> during the fly-off period.
What are we going to find out from a "flight test", assuming, of
course that the airplane does not flutter, bend detectably, or come
apart?
How do we conduct such a test? How (quantitatively) do you adjust GW
based on test results? How do you know the test has not overstressed
the airplane already, and thus lowered the allowable weight? I
suspect that _at least_ education equivalent to that of a B.S. with
an emphasis on structures would be required to take on these issues.
Has anyone tried exiting the 10 while wearing a parachute, even
stopped on the ground?
One could make a pretty good argument for _decreasing_ the gross
weight that we actually fly to. The reason is that -as far as I know-
we have no way to know that our wings are capable of withstanding the
same loads as Van's test article - regardless of whether they are
slow build or fast build. Likewise, we have no way of knowing by how
much they might deviate. My personal approach is to decrease the
airspeed rather than the gross weight, though.
> We are not talking safety margins, we are talking an aircraft rated
> in the standard category and as such will sustain 3.8G's without
> structural failure. Nuff said.
No, most assuredly _not_ enough said.
We have some really wide latitude with experimental amateur-built
aircraft, and rights that are probably the envy of pilots and
builders worldwide. With rights come corresponding responsibilities.
I submit that the rights accrue to us as individuals, but the
responsibilities are to our passengers, families, ourselves, and the
families of anyone who might fly or ride in the aircraft down the
line, possibly long after we are gone. Oh, yeah - and to our fellow
builders who would share in the effects of any negative result of our
actions.
Thanks to Rick for the excellent insurance discussion, and to James
Hovis for the continuing rational, understated engineering perspective.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Establishing gross weight |
I've just followed the comments on this so far, but I guess I
may as well speak too.
I think:
General builder questions would be well addressed in things
like workshops that already exist at EAA events, and by online
discussions, and by things like the recent workshop held
by David Saylor. So when it comes to building things, we
can all sit around the campfire and shoot the sh1t all night
long. That would work well.
For general flying skills, I think at present we not only
don't have the critical mass nor the commonality among
airplanes and panels to really go in depth and have an
event that would fit everyone or even draw a huge attendance.
We certainly don't have a critical mass to do anything that
would qualify us for reduced insurance rates as a motivator.
Then, for RV-10 flying skills, nothing really beats a couple
hours with someone like Mike S. or Alex D. to get transition
training. It's a great place to start.
The gap, as I see it today, is that there are a lot of unique
discussion topics that really could benefit from an hour
(or perhaps much more), where people who are currently flying,
operating, or maintaining the RV-10 could give some great
input as to the many things that you don't get out of the
above. There are things about how the RV-10 flies, and
things about how you can operate it, about some
maintenance gotchas, and about some things like the the
final stages of pre-first-flight preparation, that really
would be great for just a forum type event. Perhaps a
bullet-point list could be put together by a few people, or
questions could be provided for a Q&A list, and at OSH
we could set aside some time where 4-10 current RV-10
operators could speak as pseudo-panelists and give their
opinions...even if they don't all agree. I would be willing
to participate in something of that nature. I also am
quick to point out that while I may have what some would
view as good input to give, I also would not consider myself
an expert, as there are truly very few people who fit that
description. So just as anything, you'd have to take it
only as my opinion. There are far too many who speak
as experts without the qualifications, and I don't want
anyone to mistake me as one of those.
Also, some of the types of questions that could be
answered well by a panel of people are what types of
impressions they have for the need for certain equipment,
such as: Rudder Trim, Yaw Dampners, Autopilot features,
Elevator trim, lighting options, and the many things that
people question whether or not they want to add them to
their plane. Those are things that it would be nice
to hear from multiple flying -10 owners and get more
of a flowing conversation idea of what they all think.
So depending on what y'all say you want, I'd probably be
happy to participate. Ideally, everyone would take a demo
flight with me or someone else, (which PLEASE, this won't
be happening at OSH), because I usually speak at length
about some of these things during the demo flights I give.
It's the best way to really get things pointed out for you
and then let you see first-hand, in-flight, and form
your own opinion.
If we do this at OSH, I think we should just do it at
a place like RV-10 HQ, where we probably will already
have some chairs, and do it on some mid-morning or mid-afternoon
timeframe, perhaps on a day like Tuesday/Wed/or Thurs.
It could even be done twice, with the same agenda, so that
as many builders as possible could participate.
Let's see if there's continuing interest. If you like
the theory above, then shortly we should start
off-line gathering a list of topics and questions, and
we can start getting a list of people to speak. I'm sure
we could talk Vic, who's also a DAR, into speaking too,
as long as his schedule allows.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
> I can see something that starts off very informal until it hits a
> critical mass that we could approach EAA for forum space. In the mean
> time I would suggest that someone (JC) starts developing some talking
> points that seem to be of interest to the list. We could then convert
> one of the daily meeting times at Vans tent to a one hour lunch and
> learn session someplace that isnt in use with picnic tables or chairs.
> Very much a round table type session unless someone of expertise would
> have a presentation that they feel would be useful.
>
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Michael
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | yellow RV-10 in Kelowna BC |
I'm currently on an Alaska trip with Peter Cattonis Glastar will be back around
the 24. would love to have a closer look at the beauty in Kelowna 24th late afternoon
or 25th. If the owner could send me his details I would very much appreciate!
do not archive
Werner
--
Psssst! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger gehrt?
Der kanns mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger
Message 26
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Bob Condry and I have consulted and while we don't know a lot I though I
would pass along what we do know.
Bob will arrive at OSH on the 13th or 14th. Bob is then leaving for
sightseeing and returning toward the end of the week. I will arrive on the
17thand stay through the convention. We will try and get a spot at the same
location as last year or maybe if we are very lucky one row closer under the
trees. Either of us is willing to stake out additional sites for anyone who
would like one. Just send either of us a check for the total days from when
you want it reserved until the end of the show times $19. You get a refund
when you leave for unused days. I know some folks come early and others
come late. We need a good way to put each in touch with the other so they
can in effect take over (sell the unused portion) the same site and be with
the group. Suggestions?
We will have several meals together for those who like. Bob and I are
willing to run and get the food etc. and provide wheels for those who need
them. We will put out a free will offering basket and let you know about
how much we have in food costs. We don't want to make money on this. We
will also need to have a sign up sheet to give us an idea how many to
prepare for. What nights are the RV barbeque and Van's meal?
We don't have all the details worked out and are open to suggestions. We
are just willing to serve. Let us know your thoughts and we will refine the
plan.
Gary Specketer
770-403-3450
40274 working on instrument panel
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Start your engine |
What's the Sears part #, I wan't one!
Sam Marlow
Rob Kermanj wrote:
> At the risk of starting a battery brand war, I would like to offer an
> alternative to Odessey.
>
> I have been using Sears handicap battery for 15 years in my planes.
> This battery, combined with a L model Skytech starter, will crank your
> IO540 for ever (especially when you have trouble with Hot Starts). I
> have actually never seen the end of the life on this battery, I just
> replace it every three years as a precaution. This battery costs
> less, lasts longer, It is available to pick up 7 days a week and if
> you let it go flat, you just recharge it. Another bonus is that it
> fits the existing battery tray in all RVs without any modifications.
>
> I have seen enough neighbors with Odessey batteries laying on shelf as
> "Paper Weight".
>
> Do not archive.
> Rob
>
>
> On May 18, 2007, at 8:50 AM, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
>
>> Just a reminder to anyone using Odyssey style batteries, they do
>> not like being run flat. Check them every couple months to make sure
>> they are topped off and if you are using them for testing I would
>> recommend keeping a charger on them to make sure they are full. They
>> keep their charge exceedingly well when in storage but they still
>> need to be checked. If you run them flat they are basically a
>> paperweight.
>>
>>
>>
>> And congratulations Wayne, thats another big milestone!
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael Sausen
>>
>> -10 #352 Limbo
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Wayne
>> Edgerton
>> *Sent:* Friday, May 18, 2007 6:49 AM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> *Subject:* RV10-List: Start your engine
>>
>>
>>
>> There comes a time with every builder when he or she hears someone
>> deep inside the hangar say "Gentlemen start your engine" :>} and
>> today was that day for me. I was able to roll the plane out of the
>> hangar and fired this bird up. There were a few small glitch's, like
>> you've got to remember to turn on the fuel value :>}
>>
>>
>>
>> I had trouble with my EI engine monitor going off line each time I
>> tried to start the engine. We ended up putting an analog gauge on the
>> engine for oil pressure and forged on. The EI unit has a know problem
>> that when there is a voltage drop, like starting the engine, the unit
>> shuts down. But as soon as the engine starts it comes back on line. I
>> have to send the unit in for an update to it to fix the problem. The
>> RPM was also acting goofy. Hell at one point I got 3800 RPM. This
>> problem was to do with the Lazar system emitting to much interference
>> and they are sending me out a noise filtering unit to fix that problem.
>>
>>
>>
>> We had to adjust the mixture and idle a couple of times, luckily for
>> me a neighbor on the field and a good friend is great with engines so
>> he saved my bacon.
>>
>>
>>
>> One other problem I ran into was that my battery wouldn't turn over
>> the engine enough to start it so we had to jump start it with battery
>> cables. I'm overnight charging the battery but I think the battery is
>> either going or already gone to battery heaven. It's a new Odyssey
>> battery !
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyway I thought I would report my progress. I've attached a couple
>> of pictures for your perusal.
>>
>>
>>
>> Small RV grin in place right now with a bigger one hopefully to
>> follow shortly :>}
>>
>>
>>
>> Wayne Edgerton #40336
>>
>> * - The RV10-List Email Forum - class="Apple-converted-space"> --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - class="Apple-converted-space"> --> http://forums.matronics.com*
>> *
>> *
> *
> *
> **
>
>
> **
Message 28
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| Subject: | Establishing gross weight |
The beauty of the experimental category is that each of us gets to
determine what is right and wrong in the way of testing. With that being
said the correct amount of testing is what makes you as the builder
satisfied as to the safety of the aircraft and what you determine the
max allowable weight to be. Once again it is up to the builder to set
these parameters, whether they actually test the aircraft themselves or
pay to have the aircraft tested, it is the builder that is ultimately
responsible for this, regardless of what the builder community feels
they can not stop an individual from doing what they want as long as it
meets the regulation requirements set by the FAA. As for a
responsibility to others who ride in the plane, there is a placard that
is required that says it does not meet the standards and as such they
need to make the decision before they get in to determine whether they
trust the builder or not, and whether they are willing to put their life
on the line based on that trust.
It is all about personal responsibility, not what others place on you,
and you as the builder need to determine if it is safe or not.
IMHO (my opinion) many people are willing to fly their certified
aircraft over gross, and as such they would be willing to fly their
experimental over gross, regardless of what the listed gross was.
So,once again IMHO the placard is there and it is listed but the pilot
will in the long run do what they want to regardless. Remember how this
conversation got started, it was Wayne that asked to change his weight
not me, so lets keep that in perspective, because as the builder I would
not solicit the opinion of all the arm chair quarterbacks that are on
this list, rather I would solicit it from the people I know who have
experience in this field and the ramifications would become readily
apparent from that discussion, rather than the pure conjecture that is
taking place.
Dan
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Ackerman
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Establishing gross weight
With this being said, it would not be a long stretch stating
that
an additional 200 pounds in the right location will not cause an
issue
during normal flight and clear non-turbulent conditions.
So, among other things, we need to know...
What is a "long stretch"?
How do we know what a "long stretch" is?
CG aside, what is a "right location" and what is not? How do we know?
...and clear non-turbulent conditions. I did not state that it
was a smart thing to do and go fly in turbulence, what I did
state was set it high, flight test it and adjust as necessary.
Really and truly, I think the gross weight should be established
during the fly-off period.
What are we going to find out from a "flight test", assuming, of course
that the airplane does not flutter, bend detectably, or come apart?
How do we conduct such a test? How (quantitatively) do you adjust GW
based on test results? How do you know the test has not overstressed the
airplane already, and thus lowered the allowable weight? I suspect that
_at least_ education equivalent to that of a B.S. with an emphasis on
structures would be required to take on these issues.
Has anyone tried exiting the 10 while wearing a parachute, even stopped
on the ground?
One could make a pretty good argument for _decreasing_ the gross weight
that we actually fly to. The reason is that -as far as I know- we have
no way to know that our wings are capable of withstanding the same loads
as Van's test article - regardless of whether they are slow build or
fast build. Likewise, we have no way of knowing by how much they might
deviate. My personal approach is to decrease the airspeed rather than
the gross weight, though.
We are not talking safety margins, we are talking an aircraft
rated in the standard category and as such will sustain 3.8G's without
structural failure. Nuff said.
No, most assuredly _not_ enough said.
We have some really wide latitude with experimental amateur-built
aircraft, and rights that are probably the envy of pilots and builders
worldwide. With rights come corresponding responsibilities. I submit
that the rights accrue to us as individuals, but the responsibilities
are to our passengers, families, ourselves, and the families of anyone
who might fly or ride in the aircraft down the line, possibly long after
we are gone. Oh, yeah - and to our fellow builders who would share in
the effects of any negative result of our actions.
Thanks to Rick for the excellent insurance discussion, and to James
Hovis for the continuing rational, understated engineering perspective.
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Establishing gross weight |
Thanks. Part of my job is to explain engineering rationale to less
educated, but highly skilled production workers. Sometimes I do a
better job of it than at other times. I've never said "that's the way
it is, don't question it!".
Kevin H.
On 5/18/07, John Ackerman <johnag5b@cableone.net> wrote:
>
>
> > With this being said, it would not be a long stretch stating that
> > an additional 200 pounds in the right location will not cause an issue
> > during normal flight and clear non-turbulent conditions.
> >
> So, among other things, we need to know...
>
> What is a "long stretch"?
> How do we know what a "long stretch" is?
> CG aside, what is a "right location" and what is not? How do we know?
>
> > ...and clear non-turbulent conditions. I did not state that it was
> > a smart thing to do and go fly in turbulence, what I did
> > state was set it high, flight test it and adjust as necessary.
> >
> > Really and truly, I think the gross weight should be established
> > during the fly-off period.
>
> What are we going to find out from a "flight test", assuming, of
> course that the airplane does not flutter, bend detectably, or come
> apart?
> How do we conduct such a test? How (quantitatively) do you adjust GW
> based on test results? How do you know the test has not overstressed
> the airplane already, and thus lowered the allowable weight? I
> suspect that _at least_ education equivalent to that of a B.S. with
> an emphasis on structures would be required to take on these issues.
>
> Has anyone tried exiting the 10 while wearing a parachute, even
> stopped on the ground?
>
> One could make a pretty good argument for _decreasing_ the gross
> weight that we actually fly to. The reason is that -as far as I know-
> we have no way to know that our wings are capable of withstanding the
> same loads as Van's test article - regardless of whether they are
> slow build or fast build. Likewise, we have no way of knowing by how
> much they might deviate. My personal approach is to decrease the
> airspeed rather than the gross weight, though.
>
> > We are not talking safety margins, we are talking an aircraft rated
> > in the standard category and as such will sustain 3.8G's without
> > structural failure. Nuff said.
>
> No, most assuredly _not_ enough said.
> We have some really wide latitude with experimental amateur-built
> aircraft, and rights that are probably the envy of pilots and
> builders worldwide. With rights come corresponding responsibilities.
> I submit that the rights accrue to us as individuals, but the
> responsibilities are to our passengers, families, ourselves, and the
> families of anyone who might fly or ride in the aircraft down the
> line, possibly long after we are gone. Oh, yeah - and to our fellow
> builders who would share in the effects of any negative result of our
> actions.
>
> Thanks to Rick for the excellent insurance discussion, and to James
> Hovis for the continuing rational, understated engineering perspective.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Establishing gross weight |
In a message dated 5/18/2007 12:23:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
LloydDR@wernerco.com writes:
IMHO (my opinion) many people are willing to fly their certified aircraft
over gross, and as such they would be willing to fly their experimental over
gross, regardless of what the listed gross was.
Dan,
Every pilot makes the final decision on their safety of flight...but having
said this, if you over load your plane and you have an incident/accident there
is the likelyhood that your insurance company will not honor your insurance
policy since you knowingly violated the standards which you created. But
results may vary...or the widow and children left on the ground.
Patrick
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 31
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Gary, you're on the ball plenty good. Glad you're gonna be
one of the cornerstones again this year...same to you Bob.
What I'd suggest is that perhaps I could build a calendar
web page, that I keep updated....kind of a campsite diagram
that I turn into a .jpg....and I could show which sites have
people for which days. Then perhaps that would give people
an idea of who's committed, and how long they've committed for.
No money would need to be sent until later...maybe as long
as it arrives to Gary/Bob by a certain date so they have cash
in had to pay for the sites. As the number of sites grows,
we'd just grow the pile we reserve.
One important thing: If you plan to bring a camper,
extra cars, a motorhome, or anything substantial, you'd
want to make sure you note that in an email (off-line please), so
that we completely reserve a whole site for you. Last year we
got into a situation where we had only so many sites, and we
squeezed a couple of things in at the last minute, since it was
easy to fit. This year we should try to organize it a bit so
we not only have more space, but ideal space.
One additional thought. If we get up to the 4+ sites being
reserved, and lots of short-visit types, we may want to think
about having everyone just pool in a couple bucks extra, like maybe
$22/day or whatever, so that we can reserve a single, completely
open site, right in the middle of the group. That would reserve us
a place to put chairs and stuff as a gathering point, without
interfering with a persons campsite too much....kind of like
a common gathering spot, but we'd all just kind of share the cost
so that nobody's space gets too pinched. And, if we get a sudden
last minute joiner in a tent, we could stick them off in the corner
of that site.
At any rate, I could help manage the site count and provide an
online update of it, since it's something easy for me to
offer. I haven't committed myself fully as to my exact schedule for
the week, but this year I'm leaning towards a Sunday thru Thursday
type thing, with perhaps a mid-day trip home sometime during the
week. Not sure if I'd extend it to Friday or not.
Glad to be a part of it. This is going to be another good year for
the RV-10 builders, I can feel it already.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
gary wrote:
> Bob Condry and I have consulted and while we dont know a lot I though
> I would pass along what we do know.
>
>
>
> Bob will arrive at OSH on the 13^th or 14^th . Bob is then leaving for
> sightseeing and returning toward the end of the week. I will arrive on
> the 17^th and stay through the convention. We will try and get a spot
> at the same location as last year or maybe if we are very lucky one row
> closer under the trees. Either of us is willing to stake out additional
> sites for anyone who would like one. Just send either of us a check for
> the total days from when you want it reserved until the end of the show
> times $19. You get a refund when you leave for unused days. I know
> some folks come early and others come late. We need a good way to put
> each in touch with the other so they can in effect take over (sell the
> unused portion) the same site and be with the group. Suggestions?
>
>
>
> We will have several meals together for those who like. Bob and I are
> willing to run and get the food etc. and provide wheels for those who
> need them. We will put out a free will offering basket and let you know
> about how much we have in food costs. We dont want to make money on
> this. We will also need to have a sign up sheet to give us an idea how
> many to prepare for. What nights are the RV barbeque and Vans meal?
>
>
>
> We dont have all the details worked out and are open to suggestions.
> We are just willing to serve. Let us know your thoughts and we will
> refine the plan.
>
>
>
> Gary Specketer
>
> 770-403-3450
>
> 40274 working on instrument panel
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Start your engine |
Don't have a part number. Ask for a "Wheelchair" battery at Sears.
It should be about $60 Box.
Do not archive.
On May 18, 2007, at 12:13 PM, Sam Marlow wrote:
>
> What's the Sears part #, I wan't one!
> Sam Marlow
>
> Rob Kermanj wrote:
>> At the risk of starting a battery brand war, I would like to offer
>> an alternative to Odessey.
>>
>> I have been using Sears handicap battery for 15 years in my
>> planes. This battery, combined with a L model Skytech starter,
>> will crank your IO540 for ever (especially when you have trouble
>> with Hot Starts). I have actually never seen the end of the life
>> on this battery, I just replace it every three years as a
>> precaution. This battery costs less, lasts longer, It is
>> available to pick up 7 days a week and if you let it go flat, you
>> just recharge it. Another bonus is that it fits the existing
>> battery tray in all RVs without any modifications.
>>
>> I have seen enough neighbors with Odessey batteries laying on
>> shelf as "Paper Weight".
>>
>> Do not archive.
>> Rob
>>
>>
>> On May 18, 2007, at 8:50 AM, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
>>
>>> Just a reminder to anyone using Odyssey style batteries, they
>>> do not like being run flat. Check them every couple months to
>>> make sure they are topped off and if you are using them for
>>> testing I would recommend keeping a charger on them to make sure
>>> they are full. They keep their charge exceedingly well when in
>>> storage but they still need to be checked. If you run them flat
>>> they are basically a paperweight.
>>>
>>>
>>> And congratulations Wayne, thats another big milestone!
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael Sausen
>>>
>>> -10 #352 Limbo
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-
>>> list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Wayne Edgerton
>>> *Sent:* Friday, May 18, 2007 6:49 AM
>>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
>>> *Subject:* RV10-List: Start your engine
>>>
>>>
>>> There comes a time with every builder when he or she hears
>>> someone deep inside the hangar say "Gentlemen start your
>>> engine" :>} and today was that day for me. I was able to roll
>>> the plane out of the hangar and fired this bird up. There were a
>>> few small glitch's, like you've got to remember to turn on the
>>> fuel value :>}
>>>
>>>
>>> I had trouble with my EI engine monitor going off line each time
>>> I tried to start the engine. We ended up putting an analog gauge
>>> on the engine for oil pressure and forged on. The EI unit has a
>>> know problem that when there is a voltage drop, like starting the
>>> engine, the unit shuts down. But as soon as the engine starts it
>>> comes back on line. I have to send the unit in for an update to
>>> it to fix the problem. The RPM was also acting goofy. Hell at one
>>> point I got 3800 RPM. This problem was to do with the Lazar
>>> system emitting to much interference and they are sending me out
>>> a noise filtering unit to fix that problem.
>>>
>>>
>>> We had to adjust the mixture and idle a couple of times, luckily
>>> for me a neighbor on the field and a good friend is great with
>>> engines so he saved my bacon.
>>>
>>>
>>> One other problem I ran into was that my battery wouldn't turn
>>> over the engine enough to start it so we had to jump start it
>>> with battery cables. I'm overnight charging the battery but I
>>> think the battery is either going or already gone to battery
>>> heaven. It's a new Odyssey battery !
>>>
>>> Anyway I thought I would report my progress. I've attached a
>>> couple of pictures for your perusal.
>>>
>>>
>>> Small RV grin in place right now with a bigger one hopefully to
>>> follow shortly :>}
>>>
>>>
>>> Wayne Edgerton #40336
>>>
>>> * - The RV10-List Email Forum - class="Apple-converted-
>>> space"> --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-
>>> List - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - class="Apple-
>>> converted-space"> --> http://forums.matronics.com*
>>> *
>>> *
>> *
>> *
>> **
>>
>>
>> **
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | yellow RV-10 in Kelowna BC |
Werner
Call me at 250-718-3557 when you get back.
Ted French
RV-10 C-FXCS flying
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Werner
Schneider
Sent: May 18, 2007 9:02 AM
Subject: RV10-List: yellow RV-10 in Kelowna BC
I'm currently on an Alaska trip with Peter Cattonis Glastar will be back
around the 24. would love to have a closer look at the beauty in Kelowna
24th late afternoon or 25th. If the owner could send me his details I would
very much appreciate!
do not archive
Werner
--
Psssst! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger gehrt?
Der kanns mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: nose wheel cocked in flight |
Here's an older topic, but I'm just now getting to it after being on hiatus:
When I installed my nosewheel, I torqued it, then rotated it back and forth many
times, retorqued it, rotated it, retorqued it, etc. until I had a stable torque
setting. I took a number of iterations before the wheel settled into it's
breakout force. I went ahead and tightened one more flat of the nut to reach
the cotter pin hole instead of loosening. I figured it would loosen up a little
more in taxi/flight testing. My final breakout with cotter pin aligned was
right at 30#.
Rob Wright
#392
Canopy trimming
----- Original Message ----
From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2007 8:40:04 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: nose wheel cocked in flight
I've checked mine a couple times now. It really does need a
re-adjustment, as you mentioned, in perhaps the first 50-75 hours
to get it back into that mid-20's for breakaway torque.
But, then after a couple hundred hours it is fairly loose again...not
nearly in the 20's for breakaway torque. The problem is, as you
noted, just going one more flat gives it too much torque, so until
you either drill through a castle top and make an in-between
position, or wait for it to loosen even more, you're kind of stuck.
It's an unfortunate situation. I thought about drilling a 2nd
hole in the leg, but I cringe at weakening that area more than
necessary. I do have a shimmy though, briefily, just a couple
kts on either side of 35, so one of these days I'm going to have
to get it adjusted again.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Jesse Saint wrote:
>
> I don't know if this has happened to us or not because we have rudder trim.
> With the trim (and no indicator except the ball), it is hard to tell if the
> nose wheel is cocked to one side. I imagine this creates a great amount of
> drag. The only thing I can suggest is to relieve a little of the tension on
> the pivot so it doesn't take as much force to turn the nose wheel, while not
> making it too loose. I can say that they loosen up from use from the
> initial setting (26 lbs at the axle), but I imagine they don't loosen up too
> much after that first adjustment. If you leave it too loose, then you get a
> shimmy on landing - big time. If you have it too tight, it won't straighten
> up in flight. Unfortunately, there is a lot of pressure adjustment when
> just turning one flat on the nut, so there is a limited amount of fine
> tuning possible.
>
> Jesse Saint
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz
Message 35
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Does a RV10 require a header tank for the fuel system ? I am not
building one but was told any high horse power plane needs one to keep the
fuel flow going. Otherwise it can be starved for fuel in un-coordinated or
unusual flight.
Randy
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: nose wheel cocked in flight |
Yup. And you'll probably find that after 50 hours or whatever
that you're down to 10# or something much lower. It changes
quite a bit. I wouldn't recommend cranking it another flat
right now just to prepare....just means you'll want to re-check
it about the time you're ending your flyoff, or perhaps a bit
longer down the road.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Robert Wright wrote:
> Here's an older topic, but I'm just now getting to it after being on hiatus:
>
> When I installed my nosewheel, I torqued it, then rotated it back and
> forth many times, retorqued it, rotated it, retorqued it, etc. until I
> had a stable torque setting. I took a number of iterations before the
> wheel settled into it's breakout force. I went ahead and tightened one
> more flat of the nut to reach the cotter pin hole instead of loosening.
> I figured it would loosen up a little more in taxi/flight testing. My
> final breakout with cotter pin aligned was right at 30#.
>
> Rob Wright
> #392
> Canopy trimming
>
Message 37
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Does a RV10 require a header tank for the fuel system ? I am not
building one but was told any high horse power plane needs one to keep the
fuel flow going. Otherwise it can bestarved for fuel in un-coordinated or
unusual flight.
Sorry I forgot to change the subject last time.
Randy
Message 38
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Randy:
Change " high horse power" to "high wing" and you'll have it right.
Generally, only high wing aircraft need a header tank.
Steve Mills N750SM (reserved)
RV-10 40486 Slow-build
Naperville, Illinois
Finishing kit
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: OSH
Does a RV10 require a header tank for the fuel system ? I am not
building one but was told any high horse power plane needs one to keep the
fuel flow going. Otherwise it can be starved for fuel in un-coordinated or
unusual flight.
Randy
Message 39
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I made a post yesterday that my battery died and wouldn't start the
plane. It did die but I said it was an Odyssey but it actual is a
Concorde RG25XC. I bought this battery in Feb this year and when I went
to start the plane yesterday for the first time it was DOA. I charged it
slow charge overnight, which made no change in it's cranking power.
In talking to the people at TexAir they said that you don't want to buy
this battery and let it set because it will go bad like mine did. They
never seem to tell you that type of stuff up front do they.
Just an FYI for those like me who got a battery in advance of first
start.
Message 40
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| Subject: | Establishing gross weight |
I've swapped some email with Susan Sedlacheck at EAA. We may be able to get
one of the forum buildings, but they are only available in the evening. She
also talked about the porch at the Homebuilder's HQ, but I think we could
easily overwhelm that area.
Just some more options if interested.......
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Establishing gross weight
I've just followed the comments on this so far, but I guess I
may as well speak too.
I think:
General builder questions would be well addressed in things
like workshops that already exist at EAA events, and by online
discussions, and by things like the recent workshop held
by David Saylor. So when it comes to building things, we
can all sit around the campfire and shoot the sh1t all night
long. That would work well.
For general flying skills, I think at present we not only
don't have the critical mass nor the commonality among
airplanes and panels to really go in depth and have an
event that would fit everyone or even draw a huge attendance.
We certainly don't have a critical mass to do anything that
would qualify us for reduced insurance rates as a motivator.
Then, for RV-10 flying skills, nothing really beats a couple
hours with someone like Mike S. or Alex D. to get transition
training. It's a great place to start.
The gap, as I see it today, is that there are a lot of unique
discussion topics that really could benefit from an hour
(or perhaps much more), where people who are currently flying,
operating, or maintaining the RV-10 could give some great
input as to the many things that you don't get out of the
above. There are things about how the RV-10 flies, and
things about how you can operate it, about some
maintenance gotchas, and about some things like the the
final stages of pre-first-flight preparation, that really
would be great for just a forum type event. Perhaps a
bullet-point list could be put together by a few people, or
questions could be provided for a Q&A list, and at OSH
we could set aside some time where 4-10 current RV-10
operators could speak as pseudo-panelists and give their
opinions...even if they don't all agree. I would be willing
to participate in something of that nature. I also am
quick to point out that while I may have what some would
view as good input to give, I also would not consider myself
an expert, as there are truly very few people who fit that
description. So just as anything, you'd have to take it
only as my opinion. There are far too many who speak
as experts without the qualifications, and I don't want
anyone to mistake me as one of those.
Also, some of the types of questions that could be
answered well by a panel of people are what types of
impressions they have for the need for certain equipment,
such as: Rudder Trim, Yaw Dampners, Autopilot features,
Elevator trim, lighting options, and the many things that
people question whether or not they want to add them to
their plane. Those are things that it would be nice
to hear from multiple flying -10 owners and get more
of a flowing conversation idea of what they all think.
So depending on what y'all say you want, I'd probably be
happy to participate. Ideally, everyone would take a demo
flight with me or someone else, (which PLEASE, this won't
be happening at OSH), because I usually speak at length
about some of these things during the demo flights I give.
It's the best way to really get things pointed out for you
and then let you see first-hand, in-flight, and form
your own opinion.
If we do this at OSH, I think we should just do it at
a place like RV-10 HQ, where we probably will already
have some chairs, and do it on some mid-morning or mid-afternoon
timeframe, perhaps on a day like Tuesday/Wed/or Thurs.
It could even be done twice, with the same agenda, so that
as many builders as possible could participate.
Let's see if there's continuing interest. If you like
the theory above, then shortly we should start
off-line gathering a list of topics and questions, and
we can start getting a list of people to speak. I'm sure
we could talk Vic, who's also a DAR, into speaking too,
as long as his schedule allows.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
> I can see something that starts off very informal until it hit's a
> critical mass that we could approach EAA for forum space. In the mean
> time I would suggest that someone (JC) starts developing some talking
> points that seem to be of interest to the list. We could then convert
> one of the daily meeting times at Van's tent to a one hour lunch and
> learn session someplace that isn't in use with picnic tables or chairs.
> Very much a round table type session unless someone of expertise would
> have a presentation that they feel would be useful.
>
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Michael
>
>
>
Message 41
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Haven't heard of anyone putting one in yet.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 2:51 PM
Subject: RV10-List: HEADER TANK
Does a RV10 require a header tank for the fuel system ? I am not
building one but was told any high horse power plane needs one to keep the
fuel flow going. Otherwise it can bestarved for fuel in un-coordinated or
unusual flight.
Sorry I forgot to change the subject last time.
Randy
Message 42
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No header tank. There are several certified planes running the same
basic system, Mooney for example. The 10, like the Mooney, does have an
aux. boost pump.
Vern Smith (#324 fuselage)
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: OSH
Does a RV10 require a header tank for the fuel system ? I am
not
building one but was told any high horse power plane needs one to keep
the
fuel flow going. Otherwise it can be starved for fuel in un-coordinated
or
unusual flight.
Randy
Message 43
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Hi Steve, I am building a high wing Aerocomp C6 with IO540
300hp. Where can I go to get an understanding of the difference between high
and low wing fuel systems ? I contacted Aerocomp, they claim they have built
them both ways, they don't require a header and have had good luck without
one. Although I was told it is possible to be fuel starved without one, but
other planes suffer the same problem. Kinda a catch 22.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: <millstees@ameritech.net>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 2:58 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: OSH
>
> Randy:
>
> Change " high horse power" to "high wing" and you'll have it right.
> Generally, only high wing aircraft need a header tank.
>
> Steve Mills N750SM (reserved)
> RV-10 40486 Slow-build
> Naperville, Illinois
> Finishing kit
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy
> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 2:07 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: OSH
>
>
>
> Does a RV10 require a header tank for the fuel system ? I am not
> building one but was told any high horse power plane needs one to keep the
> fuel flow going. Otherwise it can be starved for fuel in un-coordinated or
> unusual flight.
>
> Randy
>
>
>
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Screw removal |
I used easy outs from work. and they didn't work either. Including myself 3 A&Ps
have looked at them and they aren't coming out without a fight. The problem
is the metal is so soft that the heads just hollow out. I may end up having to
drill the whole thing out, removing the tank completely, replace the nutplates,
and then re-install the tanks. 30 some years of combined maintenance exerience
and no one here has seen screws this tough to remove. Guess I will have to
keep trying until something works. Thanks for your help.
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113668#113668
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| Subject: | Re: Screw removal |
Eric, have you tried Left hand drill bits. They work great. You use a
smaller size than you think you need. As you drill it is grabbing and
trying to unscrew the bad screw. If it doesn't get it go to the next
size larger. I buy them at a local bolt house. Randy 40006
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric_Kallio
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 2:50 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Screw removal
I used easy outs from work. and they didn't work either. Including
myself 3 A&Ps have looked at them and they aren't coming out without a
fight. The problem is the metal is so soft that the heads just hollow
out. I may end up having to drill the whole thing out, removing the tank
completely, replace the nutplates, and then re-install the tanks. 30
some years of combined maintenance exerience and no one here has seen
screws this tough to remove. Guess I will have to keep trying until
something works. Thanks for your help.
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113668#113668
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I am willing to throw a (small sum of money) towards those individuals
who come early and stake out RV-Headquarters turf. It is great to have
a strategically and easy access site for the whole OSH experience. If
many thought a few dollars was of value, maybe we can lighten the load
for the many who arrive later.
John #600
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: OSH
Gary, you're on the ball plenty good. Glad you're gonna be
one of the cornerstones again this year...same to you Bob.
What I'd suggest is that perhaps I could build a calendar
web page, that I keep updated....kind of a campsite diagram
that I turn into a .jpg....and I could show which sites have
people for which days. Then perhaps that would give people
an idea of who's committed, and how long they've committed for.
No money would need to be sent until later...maybe as long
as it arrives to Gary/Bob by a certain date so they have cash
in had to pay for the sites. As the number of sites grows,
we'd just grow the pile we reserve.
One important thing: If you plan to bring a camper,
extra cars, a motorhome, or anything substantial, you'd
want to make sure you note that in an email (off-line please), so
that we completely reserve a whole site for you. Last year we
got into a situation where we had only so many sites, and we
squeezed a couple of things in at the last minute, since it was
easy to fit. This year we should try to organize it a bit so
we not only have more space, but ideal space.
One additional thought. If we get up to the 4+ sites being
reserved, and lots of short-visit types, we may want to think
about having everyone just pool in a couple bucks extra, like maybe
$22/day or whatever, so that we can reserve a single, completely
open site, right in the middle of the group. That would reserve us
a place to put chairs and stuff as a gathering point, without
interfering with a persons campsite too much....kind of like
a common gathering spot, but we'd all just kind of share the cost
so that nobody's space gets too pinched. And, if we get a sudden
last minute joiner in a tent, we could stick them off in the corner
of that site.
At any rate, I could help manage the site count and provide an
online update of it, since it's something easy for me to
offer. I haven't committed myself fully as to my exact schedule for
the week, but this year I'm leaning towards a Sunday thru Thursday
type thing, with perhaps a mid-day trip home sometime during the
week. Not sure if I'd extend it to Friday or not.
Glad to be a part of it. This is going to be another good year for
the RV-10 builders, I can feel it already.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
gary wrote:
> Bob Condry and I have consulted and while we don't know a lot I
though
> I would pass along what we do know.
>
>
>
> Bob will arrive at OSH on the 13^th or 14^th . Bob is then leaving
for
> sightseeing and returning toward the end of the week. I will arrive
on
> the 17^th and stay through the convention. We will try and get a spot
> at the same location as last year or maybe if we are very lucky one
row
> closer under the trees. Either of us is willing to stake out
additional
> sites for anyone who would like one. Just send either of us a check
for
> the total days from when you want it reserved until the end of the
show
> times $19. You get a refund when you leave for unused days. I know
> some folks come early and others come late. We need a good way to put
> each in touch with the other so they can in effect take over (sell the
> unused portion) the same site and be with the group. Suggestions?
>
>
>
> We will have several meals together for those who like. Bob and I are
> willing to run and get the food etc. and provide wheels for those who
> need them. We will put out a free will offering basket and let you
know
> about how much we have in food costs. We don't want to make money on
> this. We will also need to have a sign up sheet to give us an idea
how
> many to prepare for. What nights are the RV barbeque and Van's meal?
>
>
>
> We don't have all the details worked out and are open to suggestions.
> We are just willing to serve. Let us know your thoughts and we will
> refine the plan.
>
>
>
> Gary Specketer
>
> 770-403-3450
>
> 40274 working on instrument panel
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 47
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Many kit built aircraft with High Performance engines have resorted to
larger fuel lines and small header tanks to alleviate those fuel
starvation problems which can exist intermittently. The FARs are clear
on percent of fuel flow delivery for WOT.
No one has yet reported a problem with the RV-10.
John #600
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vern W. Smith
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 1:13 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: OSH
No header tank. There are several certified planes running the same
basic system, Mooney for example. The 10, like the Mooney, does have an
aux. boost pump.
Vern Smith (#324 fuselage)
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: OSH
Does a RV10 require a header tank for the fuel system ? I am
not
building one but was told any high horse power plane needs one to keep
the
fuel flow going. Otherwise it can be starved for fuel in un-coordinated
or
unusual flight.
Randy
Message 48
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At work we removed scores of errant fasteners. We use two sizes of
Snap-On easy-outs which have a lifetime warrantee and wear out at the
rate of about 50 fasteners. It is the hardened (CRES) fasteners, not
the soft ones which give us problems. We use a solution of Clover
Lapping Compound (medium grit) applied with a common plastic squeeze
bottle to correct what is either corroded threads (Use LPS-3 on
installation to correct) or the damned idiot before us that used a drill
with the torque set too tight and stripped the head on insertion.
My record is 2300 fasteners in one shift with only 3 bad ones. One
required redrilling and re-installation of a new nut plate in the fuel
cell. When in doubt change it out cause the next time your effort will
exceed the cost of the replacement fastener.
John #600
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vern W. Smith
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:34 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Screw removal
There is also another tool out there called an "Easy Out" (or that is
what I've always heard them called.) Same idea as what Rob suggested but
instead of being square they have a very course reversed thread. Most
industrial hardware stores carry them.
It may also be helpful to put a few drops of penetrating oil on the
screw's threads. Just clean it off before inserting a new screw.
Vern Smith (#324)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Kermanj
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Screw removal
Try Sears Screw Remover. They have one with a tapered square bit.
You drill a hole, as indicated on the removal bit and it almost makes
a square opening on the head of the screw. You then use a pipe
thread handle to with the removal bit to remove the screw.
Sorry that I cannot give part numbers but I know that Sears has them.
Do Not archive.
On May 17, 2007, at 5:36 PM, Eric_Kallio wrote:
>
> Well it was only a matter of time. I had a little assistance in
> installing the mounting screws for the fuel tank while I was off
> working on my thesis for grad school. 3 screws are stripped. Grit
> on the scrwedriver and my Proto screw removers have all failed to
> remove the screws. Any other methods out there that have worked for
> you? Got to get the wings out of the shop so I have room for the
> Fuse next week. Thanks.
>
> Eric Kallio
> 40518 Finishing SB wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113451#113451
>
>
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Establishing gross weight |
The C172 increases came with gear changes and later engine change. It
went from 2200 to 2300, and eventually I think 2400...not a major
increase. Also, the airframe was designed as a taildragger, so gear
and gearbox had to be designed stronger. Those weren't paper changes
but fully tested, and there were structural changes. Different gear
legs, different struts, etc.
On 5/18/07, Lloyd, Daniel R. <LloydDR@wernerco.com> wrote:
> The venerable Cessna 172 has had its max weight increased several times
> during its life, equaling several hundred pounds and without structural
> modification. This was accomplished by continued testing and analyzing the
> results.
Message 50
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Hi Everyone,
A little while ago someone posted something about a good battery charger
that was available through Walmart under a different name. I am getting
to the point where I want to start charging my batteries and I can't
find the reference to the charger.
Dave Hertner
#40164
Working on wing guts!
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: Screw removal |
After doing several annuals on my RV-6, here is my solution to phillips screws.
First is to buy a new, very good bit for my power screwdriver. I take all the
brass screws, and there are hundreds of them removed at each annual, and place
them in one big plastic bag. The occasional one that goes completely bad
while removing, I use a easy-out. Occasionally the head is drilled off and then
I either replace the nut plate or remove the screw from the backside.
The bag goes home, and then at TV time, I sort the screws into trash and ones that
look absolutely untouched. I never reuse one that even has a shine. End
up replacing about 30-50% of the screws at every annual, but the lack of stress
the next time is well worth it. When reassembly damages a screw, take it out
then and scrap it.
Bruce Patton
----- Original Message ----
From: Randy DeBauw <Randy@abros.com>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 3:03:15 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Screw removal
Eric, have you tried Left hand drill bits. They work great. You use a
smaller size than you think you need. As you drill it is grabbing and
trying to unscrew the bad screw. If it doesn't get it go to the next
size larger. I buy them at a local bolt house. Randy 40006
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric_Kallio
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 2:50 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Screw removal
I used easy outs from work. and they didn't work either. Including
myself 3 A&Ps have looked at them and they aren't coming out without a
fight. The problem is the metal is so soft that the heads just hollow
out. I may end up having to drill the whole thing out, removing the tank
completely, replace the nutplates, and then re-install the tanks. 30
some years of combined maintenance exerience and no one here has seen
screws this tough to remove. Guess I will have to keep trying until
something works. Thanks for your help.
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113668#113668
Message 52
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Sounds right. The RG style battery is like any other flooded lead-acid t
ype of battery and needs to be kept charged or it will eventually go dead a
nd be useless. The AGM batteries like Odyssey are very good at maintaining
a charge while in storage, in some cases for years without being charged.
Bottom line is to keep your batteries topped off for maximum life.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Edgerton
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 3:09 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Batterydied
I made a post yesterday that my battery died and wouldn't start the plane.
It did die but I said it was an Odyssey but it actual is a Concorde RG25XC.
I bought this battery in Feb this year and when I went to start the plane
yesterday for the first time it was DOA. I charged it slow charge overnight
, which made no change in it's cranking power.
In talking to the people at TexAir they said that you don't want to buy thi
s battery and let it set because it will go bad like mine did. They never s
eem to tell you that type of stuff up front do they.
Just an FYI for those like me who got a battery in advance of first start.
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Charger |
From Tim:
I purchased a Schumacher SC-2500A
<http://store.schumachermart.com/25ampchsc.html> charger (actually I
bought the WM-2500A...Wal-Mart's model number for that charger..
read it here <http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20070401/index.html>
I have the battery tender jr, as do others and it works fine, but it
does not have the volt read out that the Schumacher has.
Larry
David Hertner wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> A little while ago someone posted something about a good battery
> charger that was available through Walmart under a different name. I
> am getting to the point where I want to start charging my batteries
> and I can't find the reference to the charger.
>
> Dave Hertner
> #40164
> Working on wing guts!
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Charger |
David,
It may have been me...not sure.
Here's a link
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20070401/index.html
Tim
David Hertner wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> A little while ago someone posted something about a good battery charger
> that was available through Walmart under a different name. I am getting
> to the point where I want to start charging my batteries and I can't
> find the reference to the charger.
>
> Dave Hertner
> #40164
> Working on wing guts!
Message 55
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| Subject: | Establishing gross weight |
Not true for all of the weight changes in the history of the 172, but
like you said 200 lbs is not a major increase?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
McMullen
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Establishing gross weight
The C172 increases came with gear changes and later engine change. It
went from 2200 to 2300, and eventually I think 2400...not a major
increase. Also, the airframe was designed as a taildragger, so gear
and gearbox had to be designed stronger. Those weren't paper changes
but fully tested, and there were structural changes. Different gear
legs, different struts, etc.
On 5/18/07, Lloyd, Daniel R. <LloydDR@wernerco.com> wrote:
> The venerable Cessna 172 has had its max weight increased several
times
> during its life, equaling several hundred pounds and without
structural
> modification. This was accomplished by continued testing and analyzing
the
> results.
Message 56
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| Subject: | Re: Start your engine |
Good info.
Kevin
40494
tail/empennage
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Kermanj
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 6:13 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Start your engine
At the risk of starting a battery brand war, I would like to offer an
alternative to Odessey.
I have been using Sears handicap battery for 15 years in my planes.
This battery, combined with a L model Skytech starter, will crank your
IO540 for ever (especially when you have trouble with Hot Starts). I
have actually never seen the end of the life on this battery, I just
replace it every three years as a precaution. This battery costs less,
lasts longer, It is available to pick up 7 days a week and if you let it
go flat, you just recharge it. Another bonus is that it fits the
existing battery tray in all RVs without any modifications.
I have seen enough neighbors with Odessey batteries laying on shelf as
"Paper Weight".
Rob
Message 57
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| Subject: | Start your engine |
It's odd but my experience has been quite different. I've killed the pc680
in my 6a at least 5 times since completion in 2001. and I'm talking leaving
the master on for days before I notice.when I show up to fly I smack my
forehead (doh!) throw the charger on for a while ,then go flying.. Now, ,I
noticed it does take a bit longer than a wet cell battery to take an initial
charge, similar to a deep cycle, but it will come around.. I don't normally
test my batts to find discharge rates over time, but I do expect them to
work well after a week of sitting out in a western ny winter. If they pass
that test their still good. (imho). I've been using this type of batt
almost daily in the auto customs we put together, everything from audio,
hydraulics, rv's and travel trailers, and have been convinced that this is
the best technology we have to date. Just a fyi..kenetik battery makes a 26
lb 800 agm batt that fits the rv10 battery tray almost perfectly.
Specifications
Weight: 26 lbs.
Ah: 36
Amps: 950
Dimensions: 7.6" x 5" x 6"
Steven dinieri
Iflyrv10.com
40205
_____
Just a reminder to anyone using Odyssey style batteries, they do not like
being run flat. Check them every couple months to make sure they are topped
off and if you are using them for testing I would recommend keeping a
charger on them to make sure they are full. They keep their charge
exceedingly well when in storage but they still need to be checked. If you
run them flat they are basically a paperweight.
And congratulations Wayne, that's another big milestone!
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Limbo
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