Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:37 AM - Re: 611TT First Flight (Tim C)
2. 01:54 AM - Re: DAR Inspection (Tim C)
3. 03:31 AM - Re: DAR InspectionDAR Inspection (Wayne Edgerton)
4. 03:38 AM - Re: Bench seat in rear possible? (Wayne Edgerton)
5. 04:38 AM - Re: Amatuer Built Rules - was ...The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W (Phillips, Jack)
6. 04:48 AM - Re: Magneto to sparkplug routing (Phillips, Jack)
7. 06:34 AM - Re: 611TT First Flight (John Jessen)
8. 08:48 AM - overhead console. (John Gonzalez)
9. 08:56 AM - Re: FS: MT Prop Gov (Rhonda Bewley)
10. 09:07 AM - Re: PRK surgery (Paul Grimstad)
11. 09:36 AM - Re: 611TT First Flight (Ronald L Owen)
12. 11:25 AM - Re: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W (jjconstant)
13. 11:57 AM - Re: Re: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W (Tim Olson)
14. 12:41 PM - Re: Re: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W (Kelly McMullen)
15. 12:46 PM - RV10 helpful tips (ddddsp1@juno.com)
16. 01:04 PM - Re: Re: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W (Tim Olson)
17. 01:37 PM - Re: Re: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W (Kelly McMullen)
18. 02:06 PM - Re: Re: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W (Scott Schmidt)
19. 02:38 PM - RV-10 Truck -was 611TT First Flight (Kevin Belue)
20. 03:54 PM - Re: RV-10 Truck -was 611TT First Flight (Rick)
21. 04:29 PM - Re: 611TT First Flight (Dave Smith)
22. 05:46 PM - Blast Tubes for Mags? (Deems Davis)
23. 05:56 PM - Re: RV10 helpful tips (John W. Cox)
24. 06:14 PM - Re: Re: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W (Bill Schlatterer)
25. 06:18 PM - Re: Blast Tubes for Mags? (John W. Cox)
26. 06:36 PM - Re: Re: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W (Rob Kermanj)
27. 08:55 PM - Re: Re: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W (Bill Schlatterer)
28. 10:36 PM - Re: Bench seat in rear possible? (Steven DiNieri)
29. 10:52 PM - Re: Bench seat in rear possible? (Steven DiNieri)
30. 10:54 PM - Re: Bench seat in rear possible? (Steven DiNieri)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 611TT First Flight |
Mark nice to see someone flying off of grass. I have a farm with 2500' grass
strip of which 600' is sloped....Want to build an RV-10 Truck, no back seats
(4 seat insurance$$$) Perhaps a sleeping area in back. Simple VFR with a
good panel mount GPS. 6:00x6:00 W&B's modified baggage door.
Tim C
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: DAR Inspection |
Wayne maybe take a closer look at your certificate after seeing jpeg below
;-)
Tim C
Cld Lk.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: DAR InspectionDAR Inspection |
Thanks Jessie,
I'm not sure yet but probably in a week or so.
Wayne Edgerton #40336
Congrats! When do you expect to have your first flight?
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Bench seat in rear possible? |
Hi Doug,
Classic Aero did my seats and they made the back seat into a bench seat
configured 60/40. I guess you would have to figure out how to have seat
belt attachments for the baby seat but maybe Classic Aero could adapt
the seat to allow another belt to be attached? By the way they do
outstanding work and deliver on time, which seems to be rare in our RV
world.
Go to their web site and you can see the bench seat.
www.classicaerodesigns.com
Wayne Edgerton #40336
Message 5
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| Subject: | Amatuer Built Rules - was ...The Perfect Panel...how to |
decide - was GNS-430W
When I built my Pietenpol, I had a guy from the Greesnboro FSDO do the
inspection, not a DAR. I asked him just such a question. He said an
engine change, or a propeller change does NOT require re-inspection, but
it does require going back into "the box" for an addititional 25 to 40
hours (depending on whether a certified engine/prop combination was
being used) of flight testing before you can carry passengers or leave
the test area. I would assume if that is so for something as major as
an engine, that avionics changes would not require re-inspection either.
Jack Phillips
PP ASEL with Instrument Rating
Repairman's Certificate for Pietenpol NX899JP
RV-10 #40610 (tailcone)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 5:24 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W
Great statement Bobby. Now here is a new question that goes to the
heart of Amateur Built (current rules).
Does a total change-out of engine type, prop type or major alteration to
an airframe (Down the Road) require a revisit by a DAR or PAI? Or does
the repairman have the latitude to alter the engine/prop/panel from
basic VFR to EFIS/IFR without a trail of paperwork and new set of eyes?
What latitude for modification is legal and appropriate for a kit
designed and tested VAN's RV-10?
"Round Two" - No bio required "Do you feel Lucky?"
John Cox A&P with IA
40600
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bobby J.
Hughes
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 2:26 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W
The great thing is we get to rebuild our panels as often as we like.
Going home to work on my instrument rating using ASA IP PC based
software :)
Bobby
40116
_________________________________________________
Message 6
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| Subject: | Magneto to sparkplug routing |
Yeah, but don't trust Slick to get it right. When I built my first
plane, I installed new Slick mags and routed the harness per the labels
stamped in the lead caps. Tried for a week to get the engine to start
and run, but it was missing terribly, hitting on only 2 cylinders.
Finally disconnected the leads from all 8 plugs and checked the firing
order and found that the leads were mis-marked. Once I had them
correctly attached, the engine ran fine.
Jack Phillips
Just dimpling away on the tailcone
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 11:31 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Magneto to sparkplug routing
Don't feel too bad...you remembered it first. As soon as I saw this
post I had the head slapping moment myself. Now I remember that it's
printed right on the wires. ;) Well, at least you have the means to
progress now!
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Deems Davis wrote:
>
> Boy, do I feel stupid :-[
>
> I'm assuming that the answer must have something to do with the B3
> (bottom cyl # 3 ?), T5 top Cyl #5?) , B6 ........etc stamped on the
> end of the leads that connects to the plug....
>
> Too long in a 100 degree garage!
>
>
> Deems
>
_________________________________________________
Message 7
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| Subject: | 611TT First Flight |
Mark, congratulations! Safe skies.
John Jessen
328
do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Sutherland
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 8:04 PM
Subject: RV10-List: 611TT First Flight
I decided to take up my RV-10 today for her first flight (about 20 minutes)
and as you can see I safely returned to earth. Builder number 40292, I have
been working on her 2.5 years and received DAR approval this week. Airplane
few great and was very quiet, cool and fast. It took me three tries to
land. I could not get her to slow down. I am use to my bonanza, when you
drop the gear and flaps she is coming down fast. When I pulled power and
dropped the flaps, the RV-10 wanted to keep flying. I have a few minor
electrical issues to resolve but everything else worked great. Some
pictures are attached.
Mark Sutherland
325-646-4156
mark@tintopranch.com
www.tintopranch.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | overhead console. |
A few weeks ago I received some photos from builders that depicted the style
of many different overhead consoles. Mine will be done once I mount the
switches and LED and the velcro and Zolatone it, but here are a few photos
that show how versatile working in composites can be.
The last photo is the underside after the foam has been carved out. Total
weight is about nearly 4 pounds.
2 laminations of six once glass on the outside and one layer of three once
on the inside. Actually working in fiberglass can be very creative and fun
so don't let your introduction to them by working on Van's parts turn you
off...it is not an accurate reflection of what it is like.
John G. 409
Message 9
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I spoke with Douglas Turner at MT Prop - USA this morning. He verified
that Van's only sells the MT prop governor for the narrow deck 540.
That seems odd since Lycoming hasn't produced a new narrow deck engine
since the late 70s, but it is what it is. You may have a narrow deck
engine if you purchased an overhauled engine from a shop, but if you
purchased a new factory engine (from Van's) or a new experimental engine
from someone like BPE, Aerosport or Mattituck, then you definitely have
a wide deck engine.
The 860-3 can be converted to the correct drive gear ratio for the wide
deck engine. You can contact MT Prop USA at (386) 736-7762 for
assistance.
Rhonda Barrett-Bewley
Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.
2870-B N. Sheridan Rd.
Tulsa, OK 74115
(918) 835-1089 phone
(918) 835-1754 fax
www.barrettprecisionengines.com
<http://www.barrettprecisionengines.com/>
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
lessdragprod@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FS: MT Prop Gov
Hi William,
I don't know if N401RV has a narrow deck engine, or a wide deck engine.
I have only seen Van's Aircraft selling the MT governor for the narrow
deck Lyc. 540 engine. I have not seen them list the correct MT governor
for a wide deck engine.
I haven't done this, but I have heard that the MT governors for the
narrow deck Lyc. 540 engine will work on the wide deck engine. If the
high RPM adjustment screw is moved to its limit. Or, sometimes, the
metal stop needs to be filed to get additional travel on the governor
control arm.
BTW, the safety wire can be cut and the six safety wired screws can be
loosened in order to rotate the governor arm and stop assembly. When
the governor arm is in the position you want, the six screws can be
tightened and safety wired.
Do not remove the governor arm from the splined shaft. This is a bad
thing.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sat, 26 May 2007 7:18 pm
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FS: MT Prop Gov
Jim,
I hope this is not correct since my TMX IO-540 engine has the same
standard hex
nuts as the engine in 410RV which would make it a WIDE deck engine.
N410RV
http://www.myrv10.com/miscphotos/TerryCole/abilene/Abilene_04_RV10_072.j
pg
My TMX IO-540
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/20Engine/Engine02.jpg
The governor I just received in the Van's firewall forward kit is MT
P-860-3.
According to the you, I should need the P-860-5. Does Van's use a -3 or
a -5 in
N401RV?
I'll have to check with Mattituck on this.
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
-------- Original Message --------
> X-Rcpt-To: <wcurtis@nerv10.com>
>
> Just for the sake of clarification, the Lyc. IO-540-C4B5 engine has
two
> different governor gear ratios.
>
> The NARROW deck has a 0.895:1 gear ratio and uses the MT governor
P-860-3 or
> P-420-17.
>
> The WIDE deck has a 0.947:1 gear ratio and uses the MT governor
P-860-5 or
> P-420-5.
>
> The cylinders on the NARROW deck engine are mounted with round nuts
having
> an internal Allen wrench drive.
> The cylinders on the WIDE deck engine are mounted with standard hex
nuts.
>
> I have not seen the WIDE deck MT governors being offered for sale by
Van's
> Aircraft. I have only seen them offer the MT governors designed for
the
> NARROW deck Lyc. 540 engine.
>
> Regards,
> Jim Ayers
>
> In a message dated 05/25/2007 9:26:16 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> wcurtis@nerv10.com writes:
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "William Curtis"
<wcurtis@nerv10.com>
>
> Some folks are opting for the PCU5000/X (http://pcu5000.com
<http://pcu5000.com/> ). It supposedly
> governs better than the MT provided in the FF kit. Someone on
Vansairforce
> is doing a group buy of the PCU5000. Since the PCU5000X ($1350) is
more
> expensive than the MT ($Van's $1100), this may be another case of a
solution
> looking for a problem. Has anyone flying had issues with the MT
P-860-3?
>
>
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=17279&page=1&p
p=1
0&high
> light=pcu
>
> William
> http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's free at
http://www.aol.com <http://www.aol.com/> .
>RV10-List Email Forum -
AN>, and much much more:
et=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
://forums.matronics.com
________________________________
size=2 width="100%" align=center>
AOL at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000437> .
Message 10
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Dave
I had LASIK surgery a few months back, just before going to SnF. The
correction is fantastic for clarity in the sky however the related loss
of close up vision has been a bit challenging. When I first started back
flying about a week after the procedure I needed to have dark sun
glasses on the top and small magnifiers below hanging on my nose. I
found a vendor a SnF that offered sun glasses with the 1.5 magnifier on
the bottom and they now do the job for general flying. I still need the
small clear ones for check lists, pre-flight and too look down at
charts, etc. If you get LASIK or PRK I can not stress enough the use of
eye drops, it is the best way to heal and restore your vision.
Paul Grimstad
RV10 40450
Portland, Or.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Leikam
To: matronics
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 8:19 PM
Subject: RV10-List: PRK surgery
Have any of the pilots on this list had PRK surgery or LASIK and how
do you like the results for flying?
I know this is way off the building subject but I would like to put
this question out to a large number of pilots. If you feel it is not
appropriate for this list, just let it die.
Thanks.
Dave Leikam
40496
do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | 611TT First Flight |
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W |
Hi there. I'm an RV7A builder new to this forum but turned on to it by the recent
RV Hotline link. I have a dual GRT system (Horizontally laid out) and I want
Wx but have been going back and forth as to whether its better to have it integrated
into the GRT for $1500 and installation now while everything is easily
accessible, or to wait and get some kind of portable (Garmin x96 or tabet) and
have an easy upgrade path with that. Thanks in advance for all opinions.
Jeremy Constant
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115410#115410
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W |
Jeremy,
Weather can be done in so many way's it's amazing these days.
I'm partial to the integrated methods whenever possible for
EFIS systems, as a well-integrated EFIS will even out-do the
Radio + MFD solutions like a GNS-480 + MX-20, just from a
complete functionality standpoint.
Here is a link to a portion of a write-up I did on some panel
stuff, and one of the topics is on-EFIS Wx versus other
external Wx methods. Remember, it's just my opinion, but
I think there is value to be had there.
Here's the link. The page is quite long, but that
section is pretty short.
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/panel/Design_Layout.html#Integrated_WX
Here is the text-only from that too:
-----------------------------------------------
Integrated Wx to your EFIS, or portable Wx?
So you want to know why you would want to buy a more expensive, but
integrated Wx system for your panel, instead of just buying a portable
like a 396/496 and calling that good. Those units are excellent options
for some people, and they do a great job, but, there is LOTS more to
consider when purchasing such a system. Here is an example, and I think
that although I'm using my system as an example, it would be the same
for systems such as GRT EFIS, and some others:
If you have it integrated, you're flying along, there's storm cells
ahead scattered around. You're VFR (or IFR) and you want to avoid any
of them. Your COURSE to the next waypoint is on-screen,and you can see
that the pink line goes right into the area of the cell. On the Chelton
at least, your actual TRACK is also displayed on screen, and therefore
you know your HEADING, your TRACK, and your COURSE...all on that same
screen. To avoid the storm, you put the EFIS, which is commanding your
Autopilot into HEADING mode to avoid the cell, spin the proper heading
in, and watch your TRACK change. Nope, that didn't quite take you clear
enough for comfort, so you turn your heading bug some more. Now your
track looks like it'll take you well clear. The feedback in flight
given by it's integration was very valuable. Your COURSE is still set
right through the storm, and you'll adjust that later by re-initiating
your position to that next waypoint, but that's done once you're around
the side of the cell. For now, you clearly can see that your current
track avoids any danger.
The weather on the portable is fantastic stuff, but, if you have the
opportunity to integrate it into your EFIS, you won't have to estimate
and interopolate where you are tracking towards, and where the weather
is, and enter courses and waypoints and keep the handheld programmed
with all deviations, and things like that. You only have one system to
manage and it's much tighter in integration and less work to keep on top
of it...especially nice if you're flying IFR.
------------------------------------------------
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
jjconstant wrote:
> <jjconstant@comcast.net>
>
> Hi there. I'm an RV7A builder new to this forum but turned on to it
> by the recent RV Hotline link. I have a dual GRT system (Horizontally
> laid out) and I want Wx but have been going back and forth as to
> whether its better to have it integrated into the GRT for $1500 and
> installation now while everything is easily accessible, or to wait
> and get some kind of portable (Garmin x96 or tabet) and have an easy
> upgrade path with that. Thanks in advance for all opinions.
>
> Jeremy Constant
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115410#115410
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W |
Tim.,
Just for a mildly opposing point of view. If you have enough
thunderstorm activity to avoid, you want to be either giving a very
wide berth where 5-10 degrees of heading variance doesn't matter, or
you want a stormscope or better onboard for real time weather, not
delayed by 2-15 min.
All the XM variants of weather are excellent for up to date route
planning and deviation, but are not responsive enough to pick a course
through storms, IMHO.
The other factor is that no one knows how long XM/Sirrius etc are
going to stay in business, so how much $$ do you want to tie up in a
system that may be obsolete next year?
Me, I don't need to do personal flying up close and personal to
storms. If it is business, I either allow enough time for weather
delays, or go commercial.
On 5/29/07, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
>
> Jeremy,
>
> Weather can be done in so many way's it's amazing these days.
> I'm partial to the integrated methods whenever possible for
> EFIS systems, as a well-integrated EFIS will even out-do the
> Radio + MFD solutions like a GNS-480 + MX-20, just from a
> complete functionality standpoint.
>
> Here is a link to a portion of a write-up I did on some panel
> stuff, and one of the topics is on-EFIS Wx versus other
> external Wx methods. Remember, it's just my opinion, but
> I think there is value to be had there.
>
> Here's the link. The page is quite long, but that
> section is pretty short.
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/tips/panel/Design_Layout.html#Integrated_WX
>
> Here is the text-only from that too:
> -----------------------------------------------
> Integrated Wx to your EFIS, or portable Wx?
> So you want to know why you would want to buy a more expensive, but
> integrated Wx system for your panel, instead of just buying a portable
> like a 396/496 and calling that good. Those units are excellent options
> for some people, and they do a great job, but, there is LOTS more to
> consider when purchasing such a system. Here is an example, and I think
> that although I'm using my system as an example, it would be the same
> for systems such as GRT EFIS, and some others:
>
> If you have it integrated, you're flying along, there's storm cells
> ahead scattered around. You're VFR (or IFR) and you want to avoid any
> of them. Your COURSE to the next waypoint is on-screen,and you can see
> that the pink line goes right into the area of the cell. On the Chelton
> at least, your actual TRACK is also displayed on screen, and therefore
> you know your HEADING, your TRACK, and your COURSE...all on that same
> screen. To avoid the storm, you put the EFIS, which is commanding your
> Autopilot into HEADING mode to avoid the cell, spin the proper heading
> in, and watch your TRACK change. Nope, that didn't quite take you clear
> enough for comfort, so you turn your heading bug some more. Now your
> track looks like it'll take you well clear. The feedback in flight
> given by it's integration was very valuable. Your COURSE is still set
> right through the storm, and you'll adjust that later by re-initiating
> your position to that next waypoint, but that's done once you're around
> the side of the cell. For now, you clearly can see that your current
> track avoids any danger.
>
> The weather on the portable is fantastic stuff, but, if you have the
> opportunity to integrate it into your EFIS, you won't have to estimate
> and interopolate where you are tracking towards, and where the weather
> is, and enter courses and waypoints and keep the handheld programmed
> with all deviations, and things like that. You only have one system to
> manage and it's much tighter in integration and less work to keep on top
> of it...especially nice if you're flying IFR.
>
> ------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> jjconstant wrote:
> > <jjconstant@comcast.net>
> >
> > Hi there. I'm an RV7A builder new to this forum but turned on to it
> > by the recent RV Hotline link. I have a dual GRT system (Horizontally
> > laid out) and I want Wx but have been going back and forth as to
> > whether its better to have it integrated into the GRT for $1500 and
> > installation now while everything is easily accessible, or to wait
> > and get some kind of portable (Garmin x96 or tabet) and have an easy
> > upgrade path with that. Thanks in advance for all opinions.
> >
> > Jeremy Constant
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115410#115410
> >
> >
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | RV10 helpful tips |
I wanted to post a few suggestions to those building the RV10 that may s
ave you lots of time and headaches. I will let Tim decide if they are w
orthy of the website TIPS page.
Wing tanks LEAKING? Having first hand knowledge of this with my QB fue
l tanks let me suggest the following:
1. Don't trust they will not leak because the Factory built them.
2. Don't trust an AIR leak test.
3. Put 100LL in the tanks prior to PAINTING wings to verify they do not
leak. If available mount the wing on a wing rack from a paint shop. Fi
ll with 5-10 gals. rotate wing 90 degrees and test for leaks. Rotate an
other 90 degrees and test again. Continue until all sides have been lea
k tested. Now you will not ruin you paint job if one is leaking.
Much easier to fix a leak PRIOR to mounting or painting.
Elevator Trim tab cables installed:
When drilling the holes in the HORIZONTAL and ELEVATORS that the cables
pass thru you may want to OVERSIZE them and install bigger snap bushing.
WHY? The cables are too tight when fishing them thru these tail pieces
and there is no need for them to be that snug. This mod would avoid lo
ts of frustration and bending of the leading edges of the elevators when
installing and would allow easier movement of the cables which can pote
ntially put undue stress on the welded nuts that rivet to the elevator a
ccess panels.
Adjusting the elevator TRIM tabs is not as easy as the manual states. T
he manual says you need 35 degrees down from neutral on both tabs. If y
ou do this you will have no UP travel on the left tab and very little on
the right tab. You will need to compromise on your down degrees and tr
y to get the tabs NEUTRAL at cruise to avoid excess drag. Discussing thi
s issue with TIM and others it appears most flying RV10's are set at 25
degrees down on the left and 32-34 degrees down on the right to get a NU
ETRAL at cruise. Also it will vary depending WHERE on the trim tab you
measure the angle. The angle on the inner part of the tab will read less
than the outer part of the tab on both sides. Measure the same area of
the tab consistently.
Hope these tips help and save you time and frustration.
DEAN 40449
<html><P>I wanted to post a few suggestions to those building the RV10 t
hat may save you lots of time and headaches. I will let Tim decide
if they are worthy of the website TIPS page.</P>
<P>Wing tanks LEAKING? Having first hand knowledge of this w
ith my QB fuel tanks let me suggest the following: </P>
<P>1. Don't trust they will not leak because the Factory built them.</P>
<P>2. Don't trust an AIR leak test.</P>
<P>3. Put 100LL in the tanks prior to PAINTING wings to verify they do n
ot leak. If available mount the wing on a wing rack from a paint s
hop. Fill with 5-10 gals. rotate wing 90 degrees and test for leak
s. Rotate another 90 degrees and test again. Continue until
all sides have been leak tested. Now you will not ruin you p
aint job if one is leaking.</P>
<P>Much easier to fix a leak PRIOR to mounting or painting. </P>
<P> </P>
<P>Elevator Trim tab cables installed:</P>
<P>When drilling the holes in the HORIZONTAL and ELEVATORS that the cabl
es pass thru you may want to OVERSIZE them and install bigger snap bushi
ng. WHY? The cables are too tight when fishing them thru these tai
l pieces and there is no need for them to be that snug. This mod w
ould avoid lots of frustration and bending of the leading edges of the e
levators when installing and would allow easier movement of the cables w
hich can potentially put undue stress on the welded nuts that rivet
to the elevator access panels. </P>
<P>Adjusting the elevator TRIM tabs is not as easy as the manual states.
The manual says you need 35 degrees down from neutral on both tab
s. If you do this you will have no UP travel on the left
tab and very little on the right tab. You will need to compromise
on your down degrees and try to get the tabs NEUTRAL at cruise to avoid
excess drag. Discussing this issue with TIM and others it appears most
flying RV10's are set at 25 degrees down on the left and 32-34 degrees d
own on the right to get a NUETRAL at cruise. Also it will vary dep
ending WHERE on the trim tab you measure the angle. The angle on th
e inner part of the tab will read less than the outer part of the tab on
both sides. Measure the same area of the tab consistently.</P>
<P>Hope these tips help and save you time and frustration.</P>
<P>DEAN 40449</P>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W |
Very very valid point Kelly, but you're still better off having
it right on the screen that you're navigating by. I also
am a proponent of VFR flight in conditions where there is more
than just one area of storms. It's better to be below them,
with some visibility, picking the way around the bad spots
than trying to do it IFR and route around things you can't
see.
But, nobody would say that a 5 or 10 or 15 minute old weather
picture isn't worth a hell of a lot more than picking it
off the FBO's PC and then launching for a 4 hour flight.
Just over a week ago I had the perfect opportunity to use
WSI for use in cell avoidance. I visually had 20 mile
viz, and could easily see the area of cells, all in a
fairly solid line but with one rain-only weak area in
the middle, like a bridge. The WSI was able to confirm
for me that my eyes weren't lying...the storm area was
literally only about 5 miles thick....less than 2 minutes of
time to pass through cleanly. Had I not had the WSI
picture, I would have a very lengthy wait to ensure I
wasn't going into the unknown. Having it allowed
me to stay visual, have a smooth ride, and not even
get wet as the rain depicted didn't hit the ground.
As far as tying up money in a system that may die...well,
I'd rather tie up money in a system that works really
well and may die than a system that doesn't work nearly
so well but may die. There is always risk with buying
equipment of this type that the system may not be
available. Heck, we have to worry about ILS's going
away over time, TIS going away, ADS-B not being implemented
within a few years....it's endless. You need to make
your decisions based on what's out there right now because
what's in the future is unknown. In fact, with the predicted
sunspot activity coming soon, who knows if GPS's will even
be useful for approaches for a while during that period.
Weather is a fantastic option to have in a plane. That
doesn't mean anything that should encourage someone
to come close to storm cells. Avoidance is what it's
all about, and the picture may not be updated quick enough,
but it's leagues better than the alternative of not knowing
the info.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> Tim.,
> Just for a mildly opposing point of view. If you have enough
> thunderstorm activity to avoid, you want to be either giving a very
> wide berth where 5-10 degrees of heading variance doesn't matter, or
> you want a stormscope or better onboard for real time weather, not
> delayed by 2-15 min.
> All the XM variants of weather are excellent for up to date route
> planning and deviation, but are not responsive enough to pick a course
> through storms, IMHO.
> The other factor is that no one knows how long XM/Sirrius etc are
> going to stay in business, so how much $$ do you want to tie up in a
> system that may be obsolete next year?
> Me, I don't need to do personal flying up close and personal to
> storms. If it is business, I either allow enough time for weather
> delays, or go commercial.
>
> On 5/29/07, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
>>
>> Jeremy,
>>
>> Weather can be done in so many way's it's amazing these days.
>> I'm partial to the integrated methods whenever possible for
>> EFIS systems, as a well-integrated EFIS will even out-do the
>> Radio + MFD solutions like a GNS-480 + MX-20, just from a
>> complete functionality standpoint.
>>
>> Here is a link to a portion of a write-up I did on some panel
>> stuff, and one of the topics is on-EFIS Wx versus other
>> external Wx methods. Remember, it's just my opinion, but
>> I think there is value to be had there.
>>
>> Here's the link. The page is quite long, but that
>> section is pretty short.
>>
>> http://www.myrv10.com/tips/panel/Design_Layout.html#Integrated_WX
>>
>> Here is the text-only from that too:
>> -----------------------------------------------
>> Integrated Wx to your EFIS, or portable Wx?
>> So you want to know why you would want to buy a more expensive, but
>> integrated Wx system for your panel, instead of just buying a portable
>> like a 396/496 and calling that good. Those units are excellent options
>> for some people, and they do a great job, but, there is LOTS more to
>> consider when purchasing such a system. Here is an example, and I think
>> that although I'm using my system as an example, it would be the same
>> for systems such as GRT EFIS, and some others:
>>
>> If you have it integrated, you're flying along, there's storm cells
>> ahead scattered around. You're VFR (or IFR) and you want to avoid any
>> of them. Your COURSE to the next waypoint is on-screen,and you can see
>> that the pink line goes right into the area of the cell. On the Chelton
>> at least, your actual TRACK is also displayed on screen, and therefore
>> you know your HEADING, your TRACK, and your COURSE...all on that same
>> screen. To avoid the storm, you put the EFIS, which is commanding your
>> Autopilot into HEADING mode to avoid the cell, spin the proper heading
>> in, and watch your TRACK change. Nope, that didn't quite take you clear
>> enough for comfort, so you turn your heading bug some more. Now your
>> track looks like it'll take you well clear. The feedback in flight
>> given by it's integration was very valuable. Your COURSE is still set
>> right through the storm, and you'll adjust that later by re-initiating
>> your position to that next waypoint, but that's done once you're around
>> the side of the cell. For now, you clearly can see that your current
>> track avoids any danger.
>>
>> The weather on the portable is fantastic stuff, but, if you have the
>> opportunity to integrate it into your EFIS, you won't have to estimate
>> and interopolate where you are tracking towards, and where the weather
>> is, and enter courses and waypoints and keep the handheld programmed
>> with all deviations, and things like that. You only have one system to
>> manage and it's much tighter in integration and less work to keep on top
>> of it...especially nice if you're flying IFR.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> jjconstant wrote:
>> > <jjconstant@comcast.net>
>> >
>> > Hi there. I'm an RV7A builder new to this forum but turned on to it
>> > by the recent RV Hotline link. I have a dual GRT system (Horizontally
>> > laid out) and I want Wx but have been going back and forth as to
>> > whether its better to have it integrated into the GRT for $1500 and
>> > installation now while everything is easily accessible, or to wait
>> > and get some kind of portable (Garmin x96 or tabet) and have an easy
>> > upgrade path with that. Thanks in advance for all opinions.
>> >
>> > Jeremy Constant
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Read this topic online here:
>> >
>> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115410#115410
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W |
Well, that is why I said mildly opposing...no big disagreement. Of
course I started flying when I could walk into FSS and see the maps
and get a brief. Getting Wx radar on a screen at FBO or FSS was a step
up. I was used to Alaska with no WX enroute, only at destinations,
where you had to go take a look. All this new fangled stuff in the
cockpit is enough to confuse a guy to not look out the window. ;-)
Kelly
Do not archive
On 5/29/07, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
>
> Very very valid point Kelly, but you're still better off having
> it right on the screen that you're navigating by. I also
> am a proponent of VFR flight in conditions where there is more
> than just one area of storms. It's better to be below them,
> with some visibility, picking the way around the bad spots
> than trying to do it IFR and route around things you can't
> see.
>
> But, nobody would say that a 5 or 10 or 15 minute old weather
> picture isn't worth a hell of a lot more than picking it
> off the FBO's PC and then launching for a 4 hour flight.
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W |
Jeremy, I have thought for months about this as well and I am going with a tablet
based system. I wanted a system that I can check at a hotel room without taking
my laptop and I wanted on-board digital maps, approach plates and weather.
I could integrate weather into the GRT or Chelton but I really get the same
thing on the tablet plus more. Many of the software programs allow you to insert
your flight plan and it is very easy to see your plane in relation to the
weather and make the necessary adjustments. I could be dead wrong on this one
too and wish I had it panel mounted.
To me the most important part about weather is getting the right data to decide
whether you should go or stay on the ground. With panel mounted systems you
just don't get the data that you can get over the internet and flight service
will always tell you to stay on the ground if there is one cloud in the sky.
I have found that flight service does a great job at giving you the big picture
of weather and whether the system is building or dissipating. Just recently
I was warned of showers and building thunderstorms on a flight from Salt Lake
to St. George (near Las Vegas) but my analysis on the internet showed all of
that to east of my route. Only IFR flight was recommended. The flight was absolutely
perfect with a few puffy clouds. I do cut them alot of slack though.
In the summer it is very difficult to predict the behavior of an air mass in
the late afternoon around the mountains. I have about 4 sites that I check before
I ever take off on a flight and I always bring
my laptop to do it. With a tablet based system, I can leave the bulky laptop
at home and just carry the slim and light Samsung Q1 with me, go grab a latte
and Starbucks and check the weather.
One thing that the tablet, or 496/396 does is that it adds redundancy to your system.
I recently heard of a story of a 210 pilot who was flying above a storm
and lost his engine. He used the 396 to keep the wings level (apparently it
was easier to fly the 396 instruments than the turn coordinator) and descended
through the storm. He was picking up ice the whole way down and landed safely
in a field. Now the panel mount system may have done the same thing but what
if we lost all the power to a panel mount version.
I really don't want to fly in the weather, it is no fun but it can be done safely
in some instances. And if you are building your RV-10 to see the country than
you will have to fly into some clouds or you will be trapped on the ground
alot when you could easily pop through a low ceiling to VFR-on-top. Honestly,
some of the the most amazing flights started off in crappy weather but I knew
there was nothing bad out there like ice or thunderstorms. You fly through the
clouds and pretty soon you are on top where the air is smooth, the sun is shining
and view is amazing. But let me say, there have been more times I have
stayed on the ground then to try to fly through something I didn't feel comfortable
with.
We are all so spoiled to even be able to have a discussion about the different
systems that send weather by satellite to your RV-10 so that you can fly safer
and announce to your passengers up to date weather at your destination just like
the big iron. It is kind of like arguing what temperature is best for your
latte....145 deg F.....or 155 deg F. I actually like 155 to 160 F. (I was so
happy to see Starbucks at Oshkosh these past couple of years)
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 11:56:41 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W
Jeremy,
Weather can be done in so many way's it's amazing these days.
I'm partial to the integrated methods whenever possible for
EFIS systems, as a well-integrated EFIS will even out-do the
Radio + MFD solutions like a GNS-480 + MX-20, just from a
complete functionality standpoint.
Here is a link to a portion of a write-up I did on some panel
stuff, and one of the topics is on-EFIS Wx versus other
external Wx methods. Remember, it's just my opinion, but
I think there is value to be had there.
Here's the link. The page is quite long, but that
section is pretty short.
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/panel/Design_Layout.html#Integrated_WX
Here is the text-only from that too:
-----------------------------------------------
Integrated Wx to your EFIS, or portable Wx?
So you want to know why you would want to buy a more expensive, but
integrated Wx system for your panel, instead of just buying a portable
like a 396/496 and calling that good. Those units are excellent options
for some people, and they do a great job, but, there is LOTS more to
consider when purchasing such a system. Here is an example, and I think
that although I'm using my system as an example, it would be the same
for systems such as GRT EFIS, and some others:
If you have it integrated, you're flying along, there's storm cells
ahead scattered around. You're VFR (or IFR) and you want to avoid any
of them. Your COURSE to the next waypoint is on-screen,and you can see
that the pink line goes right into the area of the cell. On the Chelton
at least, your actual TRACK is also displayed on screen, and therefore
you know your HEADING, your TRACK, and your COURSE...all on that same
screen. To avoid the storm, you put the EFIS, which is commanding your
Autopilot into HEADING mode to avoid the cell, spin the proper heading
in, and watch your TRACK change. Nope, that didn't quite take you clear
enough for comfort, so you turn your heading bug some more. Now your
track looks like it'll take you well clear. The feedback in flight
given by it's integration was very valuable. Your COURSE is still set
right through the storm, and you'll adjust that later by re-initiating
your position to that next waypoint, but that's done once you're around
the side of the cell. For now, you clearly can see that your current
track avoids any danger.
The weather on the portable is fantastic stuff, but, if you have the
opportunity to integrate it into your EFIS, you won't have to estimate
and interopolate where you are tracking towards, and where the weather
is, and enter courses and waypoints and keep the handheld programmed
with all deviations, and things like that. You only have one system to
manage and it's much tighter in integration and less work to keep on top
of it...especially nice if you're flying IFR.
------------------------------------------------
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
jjconstant wrote:
> <jjconstant@comcast.net>
>
> Hi there. I'm an RV7A builder new to this forum but turned on to it
> by the recent RV Hotline link. I have a dual GRT system (Horizontally
> laid out) and I want Wx but have been going back and forth as to
> whether its better to have it integrated into the GRT for $1500 and
> installation now while everything is easily accessible, or to wait
> and get some kind of portable (Garmin x96 or tabet) and have an easy
> upgrade path with that. Thanks in advance for all opinions.
>
> Jeremy Constant
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115410#115410
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | RV-10 Truck -was 611TT First Flight |
Tim,
Have you talked to insurance companies about insuring an RV10 as a 2 seater
(I assume you intend to leave out the rear seats)? I've talked to insurance
companies about this and they would not insure it as a 2 seater only. Since
it was designed as a 4 seater, that's the only way they would insure it.
Kevin Belue
RV-6A +700hrs.
RV-10 cowling, finsh work
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim C" <tlc2@telus.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 2:33 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: 611TT First Flight
>
> Mark nice to see someone flying off of grass. I have a farm with 2500'
> grass
> strip of which 600' is sloped....Want to build an RV-10 Truck, no back
> seats
> (4 seat insurance$$$) Perhaps a sleeping area in back. Simple VFR with a
> good panel mount GPS. 6:00x6:00 W&B's modified baggage door.
>
> Tim C
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Truck -was 611TT First Flight |
Pull two hinge pins, remove the bottom cushions and seat backs and it's a two seater.
Rick S.
40185
do not archive
Message 21
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| Subject: | 611TT First Flight |
Congratulations Mark!
Message 22
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| Subject: | Blast Tubes for Mags? |
Has anyone routed a blast tube to cool their mags? Apparently some
aircraft are know for having problems with heat and mags. Living in AZ,
any time I hear of a heat issue I pay attention. I'm at the point where,
if I'm going to do it it Now would be the time. So If anyone has done
this I'd be appreciative of any pictures you might have or would be
willing to share as well as any information regarding how you installed
them. e.g. where exactly do you direct the air to on the mag? Which part
is it that get the hottest?
Thanks
Deems Davis # 406
Baffling / Plenum / Engine Stuff
http://deemsrv10.com/
Message 23
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| Subject: | RV10 helpful tips |
There are even less volatile solutions which can be inserted than AVGAS,
yet I agree wholeheartedly not to trust a tank because someone else
built it or because it was air-checked. At least recheck the work of
others before applying paint and attempting your first flight.
John 40600
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ddddsp1@juno.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 12:44 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RV10 helpful tips
I wanted to post a few suggestions to those building the RV10 that may
save you lots of time and headaches. I will let Tim decide if they are
worthy of the website TIPS page.
Wing tanks LEAKING? Having first hand knowledge of this with my QB
fuel tanks let me suggest the following:
1. Don't trust they will not leak because the Factory built them.
2. Don't trust an AIR leak test.
3. Put 100LL in the tanks prior to PAINTING wings to verify they do not
leak. If available mount the wing on a wing rack from a paint shop.
Fill with 5-10 gals. rotate wing 90 degrees and test for leaks. Rotate
another 90 degrees and test again. Continue until all sides have been
leak tested. Now you will not ruin you paint job if one is leaking.
Much easier to fix a leak PRIOR to mounting or painting.
Elevator Trim tab cables installed:
When drilling the holes in the HORIZONTAL and ELEVATORS that the cables
pass thru you may want to OVERSIZE them and install bigger snap bushing.
WHY? The cables are too tight when fishing them thru these tail pieces
and there is no need for them to be that snug. This mod would avoid
lots of frustration and bending of the leading edges of the elevators
when installing and would allow easier movement of the cables which can
potentially put undue stress on the welded nuts that rivet to the
elevator access panels.
Adjusting the elevator TRIM tabs is not as easy as the manual states.
The manual says you need 35 degrees down from neutral on both tabs. If
you do this you will have no UP travel on the left tab and very little
on the right tab. You will need to compromise on your down degrees and
try to get the tabs NEUTRAL at cruise to avoid excess drag. Discussing
this issue with TIM and others it appears most flying RV10's are set at
25 degrees down on the left and 32-34 degrees down on the right to get a
NUETRAL at cruise. Also it will vary depending WHERE on the trim tab
you measure the angle. The angle on the inner part of the tab will read
less than the outer part of the tab on both sides. Measure the same area
of the tab consistently.
Hope these tips help and save you time and frustration.
DEAN 40449
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W |
How about a third opinion :-) they're cheap even if the equipment isn't!
I also bought the dual GRT system with integrated GPS but opted for a 396
with weather for the following reasons:
>> No comparison in screen resolution/clarity! (Chelton boys have a higher
resolution screen and it makes a difference)
>> More useable information than just Nexrad. The Garmin gives winds,
Metars, TAFS, forecasts, cloud cover, etc. everything. The subscription for
XM Weather is the same cost-wise with either system but when I bought my
396, it would display a lot more info than the GRT. That may be different
now. Both get the same data stream but the GRT could not take advantage of
all of the weather features then (check now)
>> Love the complete redundancy. That plus an ICOM 24a make a great
back-up/out plan for complete equipment failures
>> Copilots love the 396 because it gives them something to do like, check
Metars, cloud decks, call for coffee, etc.
>> Pilots love having the copilot not reaching across to twiddle knobs. (
If you had three displays, it would be better)
>> IF you fly different planes (I do) you can take it with you which is a
huge safety factor.
>> If you fly with friends who don't have weather, they will ask you to go
on x-ctry trips a lot more often :-)
>> I "think" but don't know that you can now buy used 396s for about $1500
since the 496 came out.
>> I would opt for more money for the 496 because it is just better, faster,
and has true airport diagrams with taxi-ways which are real handy for
strange airports.
>> Remember that the Garmin also has the approach segment from the FAF in so
you can sorta run an approach or just fly VFR with it. Adding the GPS to
the GRT is a $500 option so really to get the same functions as the Garmin,
you have to put up $1,500 plus $500 which makes a used 396 a little cheaper
(I think).
>> Dock is available for the 396 so you can panel mount it AND take it with
you if you like.
Fly both or at least get both in your hands before you make a decision!
Bill S
7a Ark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W
Well, that is why I said mildly opposing...no big disagreement. Of course I
started flying when I could walk into FSS and see the maps and get a brief.
Getting Wx radar on a screen at FBO or FSS was a step up. I was used to
Alaska with no WX enroute, only at destinations, where you had to go take a
look. All this new fangled stuff in the cockpit is enough to confuse a guy
to not look out the window. ;-) Kelly Do not archive
On 5/29/07, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
>
> Very very valid point Kelly, but you're still better off having it
> right on the screen that you're navigating by. I also am a proponent
> of VFR flight in conditions where there is more than just one area of
> storms. It's better to be below them, with some visibility, picking
> the way around the bad spots than trying to do it IFR and route around
> things you can't see.
>
> But, nobody would say that a 5 or 10 or 15 minute old weather picture
> isn't worth a hell of a lot more than picking it off the FBO's PC and
> then launching for a 4 hour flight.
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Blast Tubes for Mags? |
One of the bench checks in rebuilding a Mag is to heat the capacitor to
see if its ability degrades with modest heat increase. Unfortunately,
you must cool the case and cap to achieve the desired cool operating
temperature.
Blast tubes do localize the cooling at the point of discharge.
John #600
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 5:43 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Blast Tubes for Mags?
Has anyone routed a blast tube to cool their mags? Apparently some
aircraft are know for having problems with heat and mags. Living in AZ,
any time I hear of a heat issue I pay attention. I'm at the point where,
if I'm going to do it it Now would be the time. So If anyone has done
this I'd be appreciative of any pictures you might have or would be
willing to share as well as any information regarding how you installed
them. e.g. where exactly do you direct the air to on the mag? Which part
is it that get the hottest?
Thanks
Deems Davis # 406
Baffling / Plenum / Engine Stuff
http://deemsrv10.com/
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W |
Jeremy, I have the XM weather option on my GRTs. I just completed a
flight from Florida to New Mexico and had to go through a line of
storms in Texas. I have actually never seen the weather information
more than 5 min. old on my system. Perhaps other systems that have
been discussed here may delay the processing of the XM weather 15
min. or so.
I threaded through storms in Texas that I would have normally waited
out. The depictions were incredibly accurate and allowed me to
complete my flight without any stress. I believe that 5 min. delay
is pretty adequate considering the RV10's speed.
The GRT weather option will not show the satellite view, something
that would greatly enhance the weather avoidance by knowing cloud
tops and the extend of the cloud coverage. The radar image is
composite (I believe) and as such, you may see a line of storm in
front of you but have a totally clear route below the echos. So your
only option in IFR conditions is to avoid all the radar returns not
knowing that you might be able to climb or descend to stay out of
them. To me, that is not so bad because ultimately, you will avoid
the weather by avoiding the color on the display.
I see a lot of value in having the weather overlaid on your GRT. On
this trip, I just set the heading bug through the clear area on the
display and basically monitored the GRTs and did not have to look at
some other display to transpose the information mentally. I hope I
am making sense.
However, I highly recommend getting any kind of weather option for
your plane.
Do not archive
On May 29, 2007, at 2:23 PM, jjconstant wrote:
>
> Hi there. I'm an RV7A builder new to this forum but turned on to it
> by the recent RV Hotline link. I have a dual GRT system
> (Horizontally laid out) and I want Wx but have been going back and
> forth as to whether its better to have it integrated into the GRT
> for $1500 and installation now while everything is easily
> accessible, or to wait and get some kind of portable (Garmin x96 or
> tabet) and have an easy upgrade path with that. Thanks in advance
> for all opinions.
>
> Jeremy Constant
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115410#115410
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W |
Kelly, just an interesting factoid :-) which everyone but me may have
already known about weather report timing. Center uses Nexrad with the
time delay of 1-6 minutes if there is any weather popping and 11 minutes if
fair weather. So for most of a trip you have the delay anyway because that
is what the ARTCC system uses. If you're getting vectors from Center, then
you are using the delayed NEXRAD and might want to know that. I had always
assumed it was more real time. Approach (ASR) uses real time stuff with
virtually no time delay and is much more accurate.
Just interesting to know. Off the last AOPA Thunderstorm Training CD
Bill S
7a Ark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W
Tim.,
Just for a mildly opposing point of view. If you have enough thunderstorm
activity to avoid, you want to be either giving a very wide berth where 5-10
degrees of heading variance doesn't matter, or you want a stormscope or
better onboard for real time weather, not delayed by 2-15 min.
All the XM variants of weather are excellent for up to date route planning
and deviation, but are not responsive enough to pick a course through
storms, IMHO.
The other factor is that no one knows how long XM/Sirrius etc are going to
stay in business, so how much $$ do you want to tie up in a system that may
be obsolete next year?
Me, I don't need to do personal flying up close and personal to storms. If
it is business, I either allow enough time for weather delays, or go
commercial.
On 5/29/07, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
>
> Jeremy,
>
> Weather can be done in so many way's it's amazing these days.
> I'm partial to the integrated methods whenever possible for EFIS
> systems, as a well-integrated EFIS will even out-do the Radio + MFD
> solutions like a GNS-480 + MX-20, just from a complete functionality
> standpoint.
>
> Here is a link to a portion of a write-up I did on some panel stuff,
> and one of the topics is on-EFIS Wx versus other external Wx methods.
> Remember, it's just my opinion, but I think there is value to be had
> there.
>
> Here's the link. The page is quite long, but that section is pretty
> short.
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/tips/panel/Design_Layout.html#Integrated_WX
>
> Here is the text-only from that too:
> -----------------------------------------------
> Integrated Wx to your EFIS, or portable Wx?
> So you want to know why you would want to buy a more expensive, but
> integrated Wx system for your panel, instead of just buying a portable
> like a 396/496 and calling that good. Those units are excellent
> options for some people, and they do a great job, but, there is LOTS
> more to consider when purchasing such a system. Here is an example,
> and I think that although I'm using my system as an example, it would
> be the same for systems such as GRT EFIS, and some others:
>
> If you have it integrated, you're flying along, there's storm cells
> ahead scattered around. You're VFR (or IFR) and you want to avoid any
> of them. Your COURSE to the next waypoint is on-screen,and you can
> see that the pink line goes right into the area of the cell. On the
> Chelton at least, your actual TRACK is also displayed on screen, and
> therefore you know your HEADING, your TRACK, and your COURSE...all on
> that same screen. To avoid the storm, you put the EFIS, which is
> commanding your Autopilot into HEADING mode to avoid the cell, spin
> the proper heading in, and watch your TRACK change. Nope, that didn't
> quite take you clear enough for comfort, so you turn your heading bug
> some more. Now your track looks like it'll take you well clear. The
> feedback in flight given by it's integration was very valuable. Your
> COURSE is still set right through the storm, and you'll adjust that
> later by re-initiating your position to that next waypoint, but that's
> done once you're around the side of the cell. For now, you clearly
> can see that your current track avoids any danger.
>
> The weather on the portable is fantastic stuff, but, if you have the
> opportunity to integrate it into your EFIS, you won't have to estimate
> and interopolate where you are tracking towards, and where the weather
> is, and enter courses and waypoints and keep the handheld programmed
> with all deviations, and things like that. You only have one system
> to manage and it's much tighter in integration and less work to keep
> on top of it...especially nice if you're flying IFR.
>
> ------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> jjconstant wrote:
> > <jjconstant@comcast.net>
> >
> > Hi there. I'm an RV7A builder new to this forum but turned on to it
> > by the recent RV Hotline link. I have a dual GRT system
> > (Horizontally laid out) and I want Wx but have been going back and
> > forth as to whether its better to have it integrated into the GRT
> > for $1500 and installation now while everything is easily
> > accessible, or to wait and get some kind of portable (Garmin x96 or
> > tabet) and have an easy upgrade path with that. Thanks in advance for
all opinions.
> >
> > Jeremy Constant
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115410#115410
> >
> >
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Bench seat in rear possible? |
I've always liked the 60-40 bench seat idea and decided to incorperate a
similar seat into the upholstery options I'm developing for the 10. here's a
pic of the foam mockup. I am putting a set of belts in the center for a
small child. Actually its quite comfortable for three kids across the back.
I'm not sure how I'll handle the shoulder strap..But I don't think theres
enough room for a carseat. Like tom says, it is a bit tight back there. Now,
I'll have to deal with two full size adults fighting over the armrest....
Steve dinieri
40205
Iflyrv10.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of n277dl
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 10:32 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Bench seat in rear possible?
Hey folks,
Thinking of being a repeat offender. I've built and fly a -7A. Have
about 500 hours on it in since 4-04. Now I'm wanting extra seating so
thinking seriously about the -10.
My question is the possibility of having a baby carrier strapped down in the
back, along with a couple moms. My youngest daughter is getting married
Saturday and my son was married a year ago. Fast forward 2-5 years and we
all know what usually happens next in life.
I know that 90%+ of the time, seating for 4 adults will be more than enough
but I want the ability to have that 5th seat for that once or twice a year
opportunity.
So, anyone been there done that... seat belts for 5???
--------
Doug
RV7A flying ~500hrs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115296#115296
Message 29
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| Subject: | Bench seat in rear possible? |
Doh!
Sorry, tim......not tom...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven DiNieri
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 1:36 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Bench seat in rear possible?
I've always liked the 60-40 bench seat idea and decided to incorperate a
similar seat into the upholstery options I'm developing for the 10. here's a
pic of the foam mockup. I am putting a set of belts in the center for a
small child. Actually its quite comfortable for three kids across the back.
I'm not sure how I'll handle the shoulder strap..But I don't think theres
enough room for a carseat. Like tom says, it is a bit tight back there. Now,
I'll have to deal with two full size adults fighting over the armrest....
Steve dinieri
40205
Iflyrv10.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of n277dl
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 10:32 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Bench seat in rear possible?
Hey folks,
Thinking of being a repeat offender. I've built and fly a -7A. Have
about 500 hours on it in since 4-04. Now I'm wanting extra seating so
thinking seriously about the -10.
My question is the possibility of having a baby carrier strapped down in the
back, along with a couple moms. My youngest daughter is getting married
Saturday and my son was married a year ago. Fast forward 2-5 years and we
all know what usually happens next in life.
I know that 90%+ of the time, seating for 4 adults will be more than enough
but I want the ability to have that 5th seat for that once or twice a year
opportunity.
So, anyone been there done that... seat belts for 5???
--------
Doug
RV7A flying ~500hrs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115296#115296
Message 30
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| Subject: | Bench seat in rear possible? |
Heres a pic with the armrest down
steve
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