Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:10 AM - Re: Starter damage after kick back on hot start (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
2. 07:30 AM - Re: Trutrak Yaw Damper for RV-10 AP and 611TT info (Randy DeBauw)
3. 07:32 AM - Re: Starter damage after kick back on hot start (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
4. 08:47 AM - OSH Lat (Robin Marks)
5. 08:58 AM - OSH Late Visit (Robin Marks)
6. 09:39 AM - Re: OSH Late Visit (Tim Olson)
7. 04:51 PM - Chelton ADAHRS TSO'd (Tim Olson)
8. 06:10 PM - RV Amphibian (dmaib@mac.com)
9. 06:15 PM - RV Amphibian (dmaib@mac.com)
10. 07:35 PM - Wire Book for RV-10 (orchidman)
11. 08:04 PM - Re: RV Amphibian (jdalton77)
12. 08:08 PM - Re: Starter damage after kick back on hot start (Kelly McMullen)
13. 09:42 PM - QB tanks (Dave Leikam)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Starter damage after kick back on hot start |
Another option, probably the one you are referring to below, for those who
like the Sky-Tec starters is to use the new High Torque Inline NL model. I
t's 1.6lbs heavier than the original LS models but uses a simple shear pin
to protect from kickback. Also, if I remember correctly, the wound field s
tarters are less susceptible than the PM starters to causing the types of b
attery drains that would cause a kickback. Being a dual LSE3 configuration
, this was a definite concern of mine.
http://www.skytecair.com/Lycoming.htm
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Limbo
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 5:16 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Starter damage after kick back on hot start
Randy,
I had exactly the same thing happen after one of my first few starts, h
adn't even flown the airplane yet. I did some research on the list and fou
nd this to not be uncommon. While avoidable I guess, I opted for the heavi
er duty starter per others recommendations and it's been great ever since.
If I remember correctly it also has a different failure mode that enables
you to replace one part vs. the whole starter. I recommend you do a search
on the list for similar issues.
Marcus
40286
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 1:55 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Starter damage after kick back on hot start
We about a week ago I gave a friend a ride in Central Washington. It was i
n the low 90's deg oat. I dropped him off and I was on the ground for 5 -
8 min. When I tried my normal hot restart I have been using for 2 years ex
perienced a kick back. This was not normal at all and to keep it from doing
it again I went full rich on mix and ran fuel pump for 5 seconds or so to
add some cold fuel to the cylinders. I knew that it would give me a flooded
condition but that was my intent. This added cool fuel the intake and I w
as able to make a flooded hot start with no problem. Here is the issue. I
mmediately after the kick back the starter started to make a grinding noise
much like the old Chevy starters that needed shimming. I pulled apart the
starter last night and looked it over. It looked fine. I called SkyTec thi
s morning and the confirmed that a kick back will almost always cause a ben
t shaft in the starter. They make the starter so that it will give way on k
ick backs and save the ring gear. They said that to replace every part in t
he starter cost 150.00 buck and is a lot cheaper than messing with a new fl
ywheel ring gear. I agree!. So be aware if a kick back happens to you and
a new noise develops. Randy 40006
Message 2
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| Subject: | Trutrak Yaw Damper for RV-10 AP and 611TT info |
Mark, I have a 4" long piece of tapered wood painted white and installed
with clear tape. I started with an 8" piece and cut it down to this
current size. I think the size is correct for my plane and I need to
make it permanent but I don't want to be in a hurry. Randy
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Sutherland
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 4:34 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Trutrak Yaw Damper for RV-10 AP and 611TT info
I have about 15 hrs on my RV-10 so far and I am having a blast. However
my right calf muscle is getting worn out. What have RV-10 pilots been
using for the rudder trim? I am looking at the TT Yaw Damper and would
like to know if anyone has it installed and working? I am also looking
at cheaper suggestion, like the piece of wood that Van used on the
prototype.
For those that have asked...details are below.
611TT is equipped as follows, new TMX IO540 with one lightspeed,
Hartzell 2 blade
2 GRT EFISs with EIS 6000, GNS480, GTX 330, GMA 340, TT RV-10 AP, Dash
mounted Garmin 396, Vans Airspeed, Alt and compass.
Preliminary numbers 170K TAS at 11.5K, 21/21, 9.5, ROP, still have a lot
of tweaking and adjusting to go so stay tuned...also I have very light
plane at the this point with no paint and interior, empty weight
1460lbs, flying at about 2000lb.
Mark Sutherland
325-646-4156
mark@tintopranch.com
www.tintopranch.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Starter damage after kick back on hot start |
Other factor is that the field wound starters have less inrush current
draw than the PM types. If you've got LSE ignition(s) this is a
potential issue although LSE has a version of their ignitions that
mitigate it somewhat. Their preference if you have a PM starter is to
have another small battery that does nothing except keep the voltage to
the ignitions from sagging during the inrush.
Bob #40105
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 9:10 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Starter damage after kick back on hot start
Another option, probably the one you are referring to below, for those
who like the Sky-Tec starters is to use the new High Torque Inline NL
model. It's 1.6lbs heavier than the original LS models but uses a
simple shear pin to protect from kickback. Also, if I remember
correctly, the wound field starters are less susceptible than the PM
starters to causing the types of battery drains that would cause a
kickback. Being a dual LSE3 configuration, this was a definite concern
of mine.
http://www.skytecair.com/Lycoming.htm
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Limbo
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 5:16 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Starter damage after kick back on hot start
Randy,
I had exactly the same thing happen after one of my first few
starts, hadn't even flown the airplane yet. I did some research on the
list and found this to not be uncommon. While avoidable I guess, I
opted for the heavier duty starter per others recommendations and it's
been great ever since. If I remember correctly it also has a different
failure mode that enables you to replace one part vs. the whole starter.
I recommend you do a search on the list for similar issues.
Marcus
40286
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 1:55 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Starter damage after kick back on hot start
We about a week ago I gave a friend a ride in Central Washington. It
was in the low 90's deg oat. I dropped him off and I was on the ground
for 5 - 8 min. When I tried my normal hot restart I have been using for
2 years experienced a kick back. This was not normal at all and to keep
it from doing it again I went full rich on mix and ran fuel pump for 5
seconds or so to add some cold fuel to the cylinders. I knew that it
would give me a flooded condition but that was my intent. This added
cool fuel the intake and I was able to make a flooded hot start with no
problem. Here is the issue. Immediately after the kick back the
starter started to make a grinding noise much like the old Chevy
starters that needed shimming. I pulled apart the starter last night
and looked it over. It looked fine. I called SkyTec this morning and the
confirmed that a kick back will almost always cause a bent shaft in the
starter. They make the starter so that it will give way on kick backs
and save the ring gear. They said that to replace every part in the
starter cost 150.00 buck and is a lot cheaper than messing with a new
flywheel ring gear. I agree!. So be aware if a kick back happens to you
and a new noise develops. Randy 40006
; - The RV10-List Email Forum -http://www.matronics.bsp; -
NEW MATRONICS WEB FO; http://forums.matronics.com
</==================>
Message 4
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OSH
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob
(US SSA)
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 7:32 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Starter damage after kick back on hot start
Other factor is that the field wound starters have less inrush current
draw than the PM types. If you've got LSE ignition(s) this is a
potential issue although LSE has a version of their ignitions that
mitigate it somewhat. Their preference if you have a PM starter is to
have another small battery that does nothing except keep the voltage to
the ignitions from sagging during the inrush.
Bob #40105
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 9:10 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Starter damage after kick back on hot start
Another option, probably the one you are referring to below, for those
who like the Sky-Tec starters is to use the new High Torque Inline NL
model. It's 1.6lbs heavier than the original LS models but uses a
simple shear pin to protect from kickback. Also, if I remember
correctly, the wound field starters are less susceptible than the PM
starters to causing the types of battery drains that would cause a
kickback. Being a dual LSE3 configuration, this was a definite concern
of mine.
http://www.skytecair.com/Lycoming.htm
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Limbo
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 5:16 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Starter damage after kick back on hot start
Randy,
I had exactly the same thing happen after one of my first few
starts, hadn't even flown the airplane yet. I did some research on the
list and found this to not be uncommon. While avoidable I guess, I
opted for the heavier duty starter per others recommendations and it's
been great ever since. If I remember correctly it also has a different
failure mode that enables you to replace one part vs. the whole starter.
I recommend you do a search on the list for similar issues.
Marcus
40286
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 1:55 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Starter damage after kick back on hot start
We about a week ago I gave a friend a ride in Central Washington. It
was in the low 90's deg oat. I dropped him off and I was on the ground
for 5 - 8 min. When I tried my normal hot restart I have been using for
2 years experienced a kick back. This was not normal at all and to keep
it from doing it again I went full rich on mix and ran fuel pump for 5
seconds or so to add some cold fuel to the cylinders. I knew that it
would give me a flooded condition but that was my intent. This added
cool fuel the intake and I was able to make a flooded hot start with no
problem. Here is the issue. Immediately after the kick back the
starter started to make a grinding noise much like the old Chevy
starters that needed shimming. I pulled apart the starter last night
and looked it over. It looked fine. I called SkyTec this morning and the
confirmed that a kick back will almost always cause a bent shaft in the
starter. They make the starter so that it will give way on kick backs
and save the ring gear. They said that to replace every part in the
starter cost 150.00 buck and is a lot cheaper than messing with a new
flywheel ring gear. I agree!. So be aware if a kick back happens to you
and a new noise develops. Randy 40006
; - The RV10-List Email Forum -http://www.matronics.bsp; -
NEW MATRONICS WEB FO; http://forums.matronics.com
Message 5
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It turns out that I will be giving a presentation in Chicago the week
after OSH. I have decided to fly into ORD a bit early o go to a concert
Friday the 27th then drive to OSH Saturday AM for the last two days of
Airventure. It will be my first visit to OSH (went to SNF this year).
* Has anyone set up an meeting place & time for the -10 builders
to meet?
* Is OSH like SNF where they close down the ramp area between
10-5:00 so one can't walk the line?
Hoping some of you will still be around by the time I get there.
Robin Marks
RV-4 Sold
RV-6A 360 Hours
RV-10 parts parts parts
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: OSH Late Visit |
Should be easy to meet people. I think it's something like
10am daily at Van's booth, plus there's always the RV-10 HQ
area that we set up...during the day or in the eves.
If you haven't been there before, you've never seen
anything like it. Sun-n-fun is actually tiny...really
tiny, by comparison. The flightline is open during the
day too, so you'll get plenty of viewing pleasure.
I used to always go over Fri-Sun, and although it
seemed busy, I was surprised when I went early in the week
to find that it's actually busier early. There will be
far fewer RV-10's on field I'm sure on those days, but,
there will still be a few to see I'm sure. That really
surprised me.
Tim
do not archive
Robin Marks wrote:
> It turns out that I will be giving a presentation in Chicago the week
> after OSH. I have decided to fly into ORD a bit early o go to a concert
> Friday the 27th then drive to OSH Saturday AM for the last two days of
> Airventure. It will be my first visit to OSH (went to SNF this year).
>
>
>
> Has anyone set up an meeting place & time for the -10 builders
> to meet?
>
> Is OSH like SNF where they close down the ramp area between
> 10-5:00 so one cant walk the line?
>
>
>
> Hoping some of you will still be around by the time I get there.
>
>
>
> Robin Marks
>
> RV-4 Sold
>
> RV-6A 360 Hours
>
> RV-10 parts parts parts
>
> *
Message 7
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| Subject: | Chelton ADAHRS TSO'd |
Thought this might be of interest to some here. Just found it on
the Lancair list.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [LML] ADAHRS TSO
From: Brent Regan <brent@regandesigns.com>
I am pleased to announce, with a measure of pride, that the Chelton
ADAHRS (formerly Pinpoint) (http://www.cheltonfs.com/EX/specs.html) has
passed all the DO160E test requirements and now has a freshly inked TSO.
The system passed all tests as designed, without failure. DO160 has a
number of different test levels for each of the 25 test categories. Test
levels are determined by the type and application of the equipment
tested. In most cases the ADAHRS was subjected to the highest, most
difficult and most stringent levels. As a result, CFS ADAHRS components
now qualify to be installed in a helicopter's composite tail boom
operating in environments from -55 to +70 degrees C. Nasty.
This is the first and only ADAHRS to pass the new direct and indirect
lightning tests. Given the design challenges of designing a system that
can survive these tests, I can say with confidence, that no other ADAHRS
currently on the market would be able to pass these tests without redesign.
The attached pictures show the OAT probe before and after the direct
effect lighting test. Despite having 1/16" of the tip of the probe
vaporized during the simulated lightning strike, both the probe and the
ADAHRS it was attached to continued to operate normally. Lets see your
Timex do that!
The entire ADAHRS design team deserves a "Well done!".
Boasting? Yep, earned it! Planted the seed, harvested the cotton, wove
the fabric, sewed the garment and silk screened the message so now we
"Got the T-shirt".
CFS Press Release to follow.
Regards
Brent Regan
Message 8
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Mary and I met Trey Johnson in Eugene, OR last year while learning how to drill,
dimple, deburr, rivet, proseal, etc from Wally Anderson at Synergy Air. Trey
was finishing his Amphib RV-7 with Wally. Stephen Reynolds who is building an
RV-7 he intends to take around the world, shot the video and apologizes for the
quality. Pretty cool!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXTGNm5k_-I
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121139#121139
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0013_148.jpg
Message 9
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Mary and I met Trey Johnson last year while we were learning how to drill, dimple,
deburr, rivet, proseal, etc from Wally Anderson at Synergy Air. Trey was finishing
his RV-7 on amphibs with Wally. Stephen Reynolds, who is building an
RV-7 to take around the world, shot the video and apologizes for the quality,
but this is pretty cool. Who is going to do the first -10 on floats? 8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXTGNm5k_-I
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121141#121141
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0013_108.jpg
Message 10
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| Subject: | Wire Book for RV-10 |
Bob Nuckolls of AeroElectric has a sample wire book for a Lancair. Has anyone
made one for the RV-10? Or 7 or 9?
If anyone knows of one, it sure would help getting me down the road or runway quicker.
[Laughing]
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N410GB reserved)
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121152#121152
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: RV Amphibian |
Boy, I'd love to do that.
I was looking at the Murphy Moose before I bought the -10 kit, we live on a
lake and would love to park the plane at the dock in the summer.
Biggest problem is the drag . . . we want to go fast!
Jeff Dalton
Wings
----- Original Message -----
From: <dmaib@mac.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 9:15 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RV Amphibian
>
> Mary and I met Trey Johnson last year while we were learning how to drill,
> dimple, deburr, rivet, proseal, etc from Wally Anderson at Synergy Air.
> Trey was finishing his RV-7 on amphibs with Wally. Stephen Reynolds, who
> is building an RV-7 to take around the world, shot the video and
> apologizes for the quality, but this is pretty cool. Who is going to do
> the first -10 on floats? 8)
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXTGNm5k_-I
>
> --------
> David Maib
> RV-10 #40559
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121141#121141
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0013_108.jpg
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Starter damage after kick back on hot start |
Another option is Kelly Aerospace 'snew E-Drive starter, which is
spec'd at less max current than the Skytec, has built-in kickback
protection, etc.
On 6/28/07, Condrey, Bob (US SSA) <bob.condrey@baesystems.com> wrote:
>
>
> Other factor is that the field wound starters have less inrush current draw
> than the PM types. If you've got LSE ignition(s) this is a potential issue
> although LSE has a version of their ignitions that mitigate it somewhat.
> Their preference if you have a PM starter is to have another small battery
> that does nothing except keep the voltage to the ignitions from sagging
> during the inrush.
>
>
> Bob #40105
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 9:10 AM
>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Starter damage after kick back on hot start
>
>
> Another option, probably the one you are referring to below, for those who
> like the Sky-Tec starters is to use the new High Torque Inline NL model.
> It's 1.6lbs heavier than the original LS models but uses a simple shear pin
> to protect from kickback. Also, if I remember correctly, the wound field
> starters are less susceptible than the PM starters to causing the types of
> battery drains that would cause a kickback. Being a dual LSE3
> configuration, this was a definite concern of mine.
>
>
> http://www.skytecair.com/Lycoming.htm
>
>
> Michael Sausen
>
> -10 #352 Limbo
>
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Marcus Cooper
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 5:16 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Starter damage after kick back on hot start
>
>
> Randy,
>
> I had exactly the same thing happen after one of my first few starts,
> hadn't even flown the airplane yet. I did some research on the list and
> found this to not be uncommon. While avoidable I guess, I opted for the
> heavier duty starter per others recommendations and it's been great ever
> since. If I remember correctly it also has a different failure mode that
> enables you to replace one part vs. the whole starter. I recommend you do a
> search on the list for similar issues.
>
>
> Marcus
>
> 40286
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Randy DeBauw
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 1:55 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Starter damage after kick back on hot start
>
>
> We about a week ago I gave a friend a ride in Central Washington. It was in
> the low 90's deg oat. I dropped him off and I was on the ground for 5 8
> min. When I tried my normal hot restart I have been using for 2 years
> experienced a kick back. This was not normal at all and to keep it from
> doing it again I went full rich on mix and ran fuel pump for 5 seconds or so
> to add some cold fuel to the cylinders. I knew that it would give me a
> flooded condition but that was my intent. This added cool fuel the intake
> and I was able to make a flooded hot start with no problem. Here is the
> issue. Immediately after the kick back the starter started to make a
> grinding noise much like the old Chevy starters that needed shimming. I
> pulled apart the starter last night and looked it over. It looked fine. I
> called SkyTec this morning and the confirmed that a kick back will almost
> always cause a bent shaft in the starter. They make the starter so that it
> will give way on kick backs and save the ring gear. They said that to
> replace every part in the starter cost 150.00 buck and is a lot cheaper than
> messing with a new flywheel ring gear. I agree!. So be aware if a kick back
> happens to you and a new noise develops. Randy 40006
>
>
> ; - The RV10-List Email Forum -http://www.matronics.bsp; - NEW
> MATRONICS WEB FO; http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
Message 13
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So far so good. Two QB tanks tested, no leaks, never took them off the
wings. The final test will be to fill them with fuel for engine testing
and flight. Hopefully they remain sound.
Just thought I'd let ya all know.
By the way, I simply installed the fuel senders temporarily for the
tests with the included gaskets, no pro-seal, and they did not leak.
Must you use pro-seal for install, or is this just a prudent practice?
I do plan on using the stuff, but the gaskets seem to work well on their
own.
Dave Leikam
40496
About to start putting the guts and wires in my wings.
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