---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 06/29/07: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:11 AM - Re: QB tanks (The McGough Family) 2. 04:20 AM - Re: Wire Book for RV-10 (AirMike) 3. 04:21 AM - Re: QB tanks (AirMike) 4. 04:21 AM - Re: Wire Book for RV-10 (Bob Leffler) 5. 04:50 AM - Re: RV Amphibian (Tim C) 6. 05:03 AM - Re: QB tanks (Jesse Saint) 7. 05:51 AM - Re: Wire Book for RV-10 (John Testement) 8. 05:56 AM - Re: QB tanks (John Testement) 9. 06:27 AM - Re: QB tanks (Jesse Saint) 10. 06:50 AM - Re: Wire Book for RV-10 (John W. Cox) 11. 07:15 AM - Re: Wire Book for RV-10 (orchidman) 12. 07:40 AM - Re: QB tanks (Dave Leikam) 13. 07:44 AM - Re: QB tanks (Dave Leikam) 14. 07:53 AM - check your tire tubes... (Jay Brinkmeyer) 15. 08:01 AM - Rudder Trim (tintopranch) 16. 08:56 AM - Re: check your tire tubes... (Pascal) 17. 10:38 AM - Re: QB tanks (John Testement) 18. 12:22 PM - Re: QB tanks (MauleDriver) 19. 01:55 PM - Re: RV Amphibian (dmaib@mac.com) 20. 02:08 PM - Re: Re: Wire Book for RV-10 (Vernon Smith) 21. 02:39 PM - Re: Re: Wire Book for RV-10 (carlos) 22. 08:13 PM - Re: Starter damage after kick back on hot start (linn Walters) 23. 08:35 PM - Re: Wire Book for RV-10 (orchidman) 24. 09:47 PM - Re: QB tanks (Dave Leikam) 25. 10:13 PM - Re: QB tanks (Jesse Saint) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:31 AM PST US From: "The McGough Family" Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB tanks Dave how did you test them ? Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Leikam To: RV-10 matronics Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 3:42 PM Subject: RV10-List: QB tanks So far so good. Two QB tanks tested, no leaks, never took them off the wings. The final test will be to fill them with fuel for engine testing and flight. Hopefully they remain sound. Just thought I'd let ya all know. By the way, I simply installed the fuel senders temporarily for the tests with the included gaskets, no pro-seal, and they did not leak. Must you use pro-seal for install, or is this just a prudent practice? I do plan on using the stuff, but the gaskets seem to work well on their own. Dave Leikam 40496 About to start putting the guts and wires in my wings. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:20:42 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Wire Book for RV-10 From: "AirMike" I bought the wiring kit from Vans. It is expensive, but it provides the basic wiring for the RV10 including a pre-cut and rigged harness that covers all of your basic wiring needs (as they say for a VFR airplane.) It also includes instructions, but not a description of what & why It all fit in quite flawlessly. I was quite impressed. :D I do not know didley about wiring and elecrical stuff, but my IA friend brought me up to speed on what I was doing and assisted me with the installation. I also rigged my static line at the same time and threw some conduit in under the rear seats and baggage area for later additions. The kit also includes the dreaded #2 wire from the battery to the solenoid on the firewall. All in all, I probably saved 2 weeks on the electrical system - time will tell, but my IA friend gave me confidence that the kit did the job. With some trepidation I have buttoned up the baggage area and moved on to the control stuff. :? :? Hope to fly to OSH next year -------- OSH '08 or Bust Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121179#121179 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:21:40 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: QB tanks From: "AirMike" Yes - what was your leak test proceedure ??? -------- OSH '08 or Bust Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121180#121180 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:21:45 AM PST US From: "Bob Leffler" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Wire Book for RV-10 The link on Bob's site for this is broken. Can you forward a copy off list? Our EAA Chapter is sponsoring Bob's seminar in December at KOSU. This is on my to do list, but haven't started activities yet other than to add it to the myriad of other task yet to be started. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of orchidman Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 10:34 PM Subject: RV10-List: Wire Book for RV-10 Bob Nuckolls of AeroElectric has a sample wire book for a Lancair. Has anyone made one for the RV-10? Or 7 or 9? If anyone knows of one, it sure would help getting me down the road or runway quicker. [Laughing] -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N410GB reserved) do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121152#121152 __________ NOD32 2363 (20070629) Information __________ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:50:46 AM PST US From: "Tim C" Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV Amphibian Well Eustace Bowhay (Salmon Arm B.C.) put an RV-6 on floats and made work years ago. Was on the cover of Kitplanes back then.....He passed away last year....Some background 20,000hrs Flying time non-Airline or Military> http://vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=7209 Tim Cold Lk. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jdalton77" Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 9:02 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV Amphibian > > Boy, I'd love to do that. > > I was looking at the Murphy Moose before I bought the -10 kit, we live on a > lake and would love to park the plane at the dock in the summer. > > Biggest problem is the drag . . . we want to go fast! > > Jeff Dalton > Wings > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 9:15 PM > Subject: RV10-List: RV Amphibian > > > > > > Mary and I met Trey Johnson last year while we were learning how to drill, > > dimple, deburr, rivet, proseal, etc from Wally Anderson at Synergy Air. > > Trey was finishing his RV-7 on amphibs with Wally. Stephen Reynolds, who > > is building an RV-7 to take around the world, shot the video and > > apologizes for the quality, but this is pretty cool. Who is going to do > > the first -10 on floats? 8) > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXTGNm5k_-I > > > > -------- > > David Maib > > RV-10 #40559 > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121141#121141 > > > > > > > > > > Attachments: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0013_108.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:03:31 AM PST US From: "Jesse Saint" Subject: RE: RV10-List: QB tanks Dave, Some people are leaving out the gaskets completely and just using proseal and others are going the other extreme, using no proseal and just the gaskets. Either way has benefits. With just proseal, you will probably go longer without leaks, but if/when it becomes time to replace the senders, it will be more work to do so. Using just the gaskets makes it much easier to change the senders, but the rubber will most likely dry out and crack and give you leaks sometime down the road. Many are using the gaskets and putting anywhere from a little to a lot of proseal around them. We have started just using the gaskets after putting a little proseal around the nutplates inside the tank. I just tested a set of tanks and at first test there was a leak around one of the screws on one tank that was fixed by a quarter turn with a screwdriver. Maybe a good combination if you are worried would be just the gaskets and then a bead around the outside of the gasket with proseal, and maybe a little proseal around the screws (but not on the head). Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 1:43 AM Subject: RV10-List: QB tanks So far so good. Two QB tanks tested, no leaks, never took them off the wings. The final test will be to fill them with fuel for engine testing and flight. Hopefully they remain sound. Just thought I'd let ya all know. By the way, I simply installed the fuel senders temporarily for the tests with the included gaskets, no pro-seal, and they did not leak. Must you use pro-seal for install, or is this just a prudent practice? I do plan on using the stuff, but the gaskets seem to work well on their own. Dave Leikam 40496 About to start putting the guts and wires in my wings. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:22 AM PST US From: "John Testement" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Wire Book for RV-10 Here is my wirebook. Feel free to use it as a start. Take care, John _________________________________ John Testement RoadMaps Consulting / SportsMind Please visit our website at roadmapscoaching.com Phone: 804-303-1927 Email: john@roadmapscoaching.com 3204 Long Meadow Cir. Glen Allen, VA 23059 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of orchidman Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 10:34 PM Subject: RV10-List: Wire Book for RV-10 Bob Nuckolls of AeroElectric has a sample wire book for a Lancair. Has anyone made one for the RV-10? Or 7 or 9? If anyone knows of one, it sure would help getting me down the road or runway quicker. [Laughing] -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N410GB reserved) do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121152#121152 10:56 AM 5:57 PM ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:06 AM PST US From: "John Testement" Subject: RE: RV10-List: QB tanks Jesse, I used the gaskets with Fuel Lube. I have tested the tanks (even removed them to test the back side), and they test ok. I used the balloon and soapy water method. Do you see any potential problems with the gasket/Fuel Lube approach? John Testement HYPERLINK "mailto:jwt@roadmapscoaching.com"jwt@roadmapscoaching.com 40321 Richmond, VA Paint prep and LOTS of misc stuff do not archive _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 8:03 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: QB tanks Dave, Some people are leaving out the gaskets completely and just using proseal and others are going the other extreme, using no proseal and just the gaskets. Either way has benefits. With just proseal, you will probably go longer without leaks, but if/when it becomes time to replace the senders, it will be more work to do so. Using just the gaskets makes it much easier to change the senders, but the rubber will most likely dry out and crack and give you leaks sometime down the road. Many are using the gaskets and putting anywhere from a little to a lot of proseal around them. We have started just using the gaskets after putting a little proseal around the nutplates inside the tank. I just tested a set of tanks and at first test there was a leak around one of the screws on one tank that was fixed by a quarter turn with a screwdriver. Maybe a good combination if you are worried would be just the gaskets and then a bead around the outside of the gasket with proseal, and maybe a little proseal around the screws (but not on the head). Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. HYPERLINK "mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com"jesse@saintaviation.com HYPERLINK "http://www.saintaviation.com"www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 _____ 5:57 PM ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:05 AM PST US From: "Jesse Saint" Subject: RE: RV10-List: QB tanks Did you use the lube on the threads of the screws or just on the face of the gasket? I can't say that I see any problem with it, although I am certainly no expert on Fuel Lube. The main problem with just using the gasket, as I understand it, is that the rubber can dry out and crack. I don't know the affect of fuel lube on the rubber. Others would be much more qualified to answer this. Do not archive Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Testement Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 8:55 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: QB tanks Jesse, I used the gaskets with Fuel Lube. I have tested the tanks (even removed them to test the back side), and they test ok. I used the balloon and soapy water method. Do you see any potential problems with the gasket/Fuel Lube approach? John Testement jwt@roadmapscoaching.com 40321 Richmond, VA Paint prep and LOTS of misc stuff do not archive _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 8:03 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: QB tanks Dave, Some people are leaving out the gaskets completely and just using proseal and others are going the other extreme, using no proseal and just the gaskets. Either way has benefits. With just proseal, you will probably go longer without leaks, but if/when it becomes time to replace the senders, it will be more work to do so. Using just the gaskets makes it much easier to change the senders, but the rubber will most likely dry out and crack and give you leaks sometime down the road. Many are using the gaskets and putting anywhere from a little to a lot of proseal around them. We have started just using the gaskets after putting a little proseal around the nutplates inside the tank. I just tested a set of tanks and at first test there was a leak around one of the screws on one tank that was fixed by a quarter turn with a screwdriver. Maybe a good combination if you are worried would be just the gaskets and then a bead around the outside of the gasket with proseal, and maybe a little proseal around the screws (but not on the head). Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 _____ 6/28/2007 5:57 PM ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:41 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Wire Book for RV-10 From: "John W. Cox" An excellent contribution to the build effort. Thanks John Cox -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Testement Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 5:50 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Wire Book for RV-10 Here is my wirebook. Feel free to use it as a start. Take care, John _________________________________ John Testement RoadMaps Consulting / SportsMind Please visit our website at roadmapscoaching.com Phone: 804-303-1927 Email: john@roadmapscoaching.com 3204 Long Meadow Cir. Glen Allen, VA 23059 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of orchidman Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 10:34 PM Subject: RV10-List: Wire Book for RV-10 Bob Nuckolls of AeroElectric has a sample wire book for a Lancair. Has anyone made one for the RV-10? Or 7 or 9? If anyone knows of one, it sure would help getting me down the road or runway quicker. [Laughing] -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N410GB reserved) do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121152#121152 10:56 AM 5:57 PM ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:15:10 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Wire Book for RV-10 From: "orchidman" Guess I needed to be more specific. There are 2 samples on the AeroElectronic CD that are labeled Wire Book that are about 30 pages of wiring diagrams. They are printable into a book form with a basic wiring diagram similar to what we see from many people plus other detailed diagrams with finer details of each segment or component. Has anyone done one of these for the 10? Before you do a complete load analysis or inventory of all components, you need a complete and detailed wiring diagram. -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N410GB reserved) do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121205#121205 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:47 AM PST US From: "Dave Leikam" Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB tanks I installed the senders as I stated, then installed the quickdrain valves on the bottom of the wings. Purchased a small brass valve and necessary hardware from local store and installed that in the strainer fitting. I found a small rubber grommet and pushed that onto the vent fitting. Then put a balloon over the grommet and SLOWLY added air from compressor turned way down to almost nothing through the open valve. Watched the balloon grow to about 14" dia. Close valve. (Ya think?!) Sprayed dishsoap and water solution on fittings and valve to be sure nothing was leaking and waited overnight. Balloon still at 14". Sprayed soap on rivets just for grins and giggles, no bubbles. I am confident at this time there are no leaks. Down the road is another story, but I can't think of any more testing to do which would identify any problem areas. I did at first have a small leak in the valve, which I tightened and stopped the leak. Also the balloon over the vent fitting. I just wrapped electrical tape around the neck tightly and that stopped. I know some have found leaks in their QB tanks, but I really did not expect any. I have found the QB kits so far to be of very good quality and am guessing Van's must test them before install. On to the wing guts. Dave Leikam 40496 QB wing guts ----- Original Message ----- From: The McGough Family To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 1:10 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB tanks Dave how did you test them ? Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Leikam To: RV-10 matronics Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 3:42 PM Subject: RV10-List: QB tanks So far so good. Two QB tanks tested, no leaks, never took them off the wings. The final test will be to fill them with fuel for engine testing and flight. Hopefully they remain sound. Just thought I'd let ya all know. By the way, I simply installed the fuel senders temporarily for the tests with the included gaskets, no pro-seal, and they did not leak. Must you use pro-seal for install, or is this just a prudent practice? I do plan on using the stuff, but the gaskets seem to work well on their own. Dave Leikam 40496 About to start putting the guts and wires in my wings. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:15 AM PST US From: "Dave Leikam" Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB tanks I did not use anything on the screws with the gasket. I know, I thought they may leak also but they did not. Dave Leikam ----- Original Message ----- From: Jesse Saint To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 7:25 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: QB tanks Did you use the lube on the threads of the screws or just on the face of the gasket? I can't say that I see any problem with it, although I am certainly no expert on Fuel Lube. The main problem with just using the gasket, as I understand it, is that the rubber can dry out and crack. I don't know the affect of fuel lube on the rubber. Others would be much more qualified to answer this. Do not archive Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Testement Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 8:55 AM To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: RV10-List: QB tanks Jesse, I used the gaskets with Fuel Lube. I have tested the tanks (even removed them to test the back side), and they test ok. I used the balloon and soapy water method. Do you see any potential problems with the gasket/Fuel Lube approach? John Testement jwt@roadmapscoaching.com 40321 Richmond, VA Paint prep and LOTS of misc stuff do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 8:03 AM To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: RV10-List: QB tanks Dave, Some people are leaving out the gaskets completely and just using proseal and others are going the other extreme, using no proseal and just the gaskets. Either way has benefits. With just proseal, you will probably go longer without leaks, but if/when it becomes time to replace the senders, it will be more work to do so. Using just the gaskets makes it much easier to change the senders, but the rubber will most likely dry out and crack and give you leaks sometime down the road. Many are using the gaskets and putting anywhere from a little to a lot of proseal around them. We have started just using the gaskets after putting a little proseal around the nutplates inside the tank. I just tested a set of tanks and at first test there was a leak around one of the screws on one tank that was fixed by a quarter turn with a screwdriver. Maybe a good combination if you are worried would be just the gaskets and then a bead around the outside of the gasket with proseal, and maybe a little proseal around the screws (but not on the head). Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 6/28/2007 5:57 PM http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:42 AM PST US From: Jay Brinkmeyer Subject: RV10-List: check your tire tubes... http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 070626X00800&key=1 A fellow RV-8 builder found a defective tube the hard way on his first test flight. He said inflate the tube and press on the seams to see if it leaks. The tube came from Vans and says Made In Mexico. Data point Vans was less than helpful when contacted. :-( Regards, Jay Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:05 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Rudder Trim From: "tintopranch" I appears that no one is using the TT Yaw Damper with Rudder Trim. Price maybe the a factor, since it cost around $4000. I do not have time to make any major mods to the rudder, since I go to the paint shop this month. So I will be using a plastic wedge from ACS for now. However has anyone looked into using a spring biased system for rudder trim similar to the vans aileron trim system? -------- MARK SUTHERLAND RV-10 40292 Flying since June 07 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121216#121216 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:12 AM PST US From: "Pascal" Subject: Re: RV10-List: check your tire tubes... Thanks for the insight, but I question something here. Mentioning the tube came from Van's and they were less than helpful makes me question who is at fault. The guy sees the tire is low but inflates it before the flight. Lands with a flat tire. hmm... did Van's send the tire already mounted with the "defective" tube? did the tire never lose air before (aka while waiting to have kit completed/before flight)? how do we know when the builder mounted the tire he didn't pinch the tube? I have done so with my bike so I could see this happening with this tire.. Ultimately, it is the pilot who owns the final responsibility for assuring all issues are resolved. A tire just doesn't go flat when flying, there was something wrong before it ever took off indicated by the "low right tire" Maybe Van's was less than helpful for legal reasons, offer to help someone and they just might blame them and the "fact that you help, indicates you acknowledge it was your fault". People replaced WD-415 thinking it inadequate, the builder should have replaced that tube regardless of where it was built and who sold it to him. Pascal Do not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Brinkmeyer" Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 7:53 AM Subject: RV10-List: check your tire tubes... > > > http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 070626X00800&key=1 > > A fellow RV-8 builder found a defective tube the hard way on his first > test > flight. He said. "inflate the tube and press on the seams to see if it > leaks". > The tube came from Vans and says "Made In Mexico". Data point. Vans was > less > than helpful when contacted. :-( > > Regards, > Jay > > > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search > that gives answers, not web links. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:49 AM PST US From: "John Testement" Subject: RE: RV10-List: QB tanks I just put the Fuel Lube on the gasket, not the screws. We'll see if it keeps the gasket from drying. John _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 9:26 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: QB tanks Did you use the lube on the threads of the screws or just on the face of the gasket? I can=92t say that I see any problem with it, although I am certainly no expert on Fuel Lube. The main problem with just using the gasket, as I understand it, is that the rubber can dry out and crack. I don=92t know the affect of fuel lube on the rubber. Others would be much more qualified to answer this. Do not archive Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. HYPERLINK "mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com"jesse@saintaviation.com HYPERLINK "http://www.saintaviation.com"www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Testement Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 8:55 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: QB tanks Jesse, I used the gaskets with Fuel Lube. I have tested the tanks (even removed them to test the back side), and they test ok. I used the balloon and soapy water method. Do you see any potential problems with the gasket/Fuel Lube approach? John Testement HYPERLINK "mailto:jwt@roadmapscoaching.com"jwt@roadmapscoaching.com 40321 Richmond, VA Paint prep and LOTS of misc stuff do not archive _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 8:03 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: QB tanks Dave, Some people are leaving out the gaskets completely and just using proseal and others are going the other extreme, using no proseal and just the gaskets. Either way has benefits. With just proseal, you will probably go longer without leaks, but if/when it becomes time to replace the senders, it will be more work to do so. Using just the gaskets makes it much easier to change the senders, but the rubber will most likely dry out and crack and give you leaks sometime down the road. Many are using the gaskets and putting anywhere from a little to a lot of proseal around them. We have started just using the gaskets after putting a little proseal around the nutplates inside the tank. I just tested a set of tanks and at first test there was a leak around one of the screws on one tank that was fixed by a quarter turn with a screwdriver. Maybe a good combination if you are worried would be just the gaskets and then a bead around the outside of the gasket with proseal, and maybe a little proseal around the screws (but not on the head). Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. HYPERLINK "mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com"jesse@saintaviation.com HYPERLINK "http://www.saintaviation.com"www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 _____ 6/28/2007 5:57 PM http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"http://www.matronics.com/Na vig ator?RV10-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com 6/28/2007 5:57 PM 6/28/2007 5:57 PM ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:22:41 PM PST US From: MauleDriver Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB tanks I recently tested my tanks using the balloon and soap and water method. No leaks found. I didn't have the nerve or knowledge to blow the balloon up to 14". The warnings about not using too much pressure got my attention. I just took up to where it the balloon starts to stretch if that makes any sense. How much pressure should be used here? how do you measure it? should I redo it and blow a balloon up to many inches? Your thoughts/experience welcome. I didn't use anything on the gasket but I intend to use fuel lube on both the gasket and the threads. It appears to be what fuel lube if for - a non-drying, petrochemical resistant sealant for fittings that have fuel trying to leak out. I guess pro-seal sounds like the samething except it would seem to get hard over time. Bill "installing wires for autopilot servo and LED position lights in wings" Watson John Testement wrote: > I just put the Fuel Lube on the gasket, not the screws. We'll see if > it keeps the gasket from drying. > > John > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jesse Saint > *Sent:* Friday, June 29, 2007 9:26 AM > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: QB tanks > > Did you use the lube on the threads of the screws or just on the face > of the gasket? I cant say that I see any problem with it, although I > am certainly no expert on Fuel Lube. The main problem with just using > the gasket, as I understand it, is that the rubber can dry out and > crack. I dont know the affect of fuel lube on the rubber. Others > would be much more qualified to answer this. > > > > Do not archive > > > > Jesse Saint > > Saint Aviation, Inc. > > jesse@saintaviation.com > > www.saintaviation.com > > Cell: 352-427-0285 > > Fax: 815-377-3694 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John > Testement > *Sent:* Friday, June 29, 2007 8:55 AM > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: QB tanks > > > > Jesse, > > > > I used the gaskets with Fuel Lube. I have tested the tanks (even > removed them to test the back side), and they test ok. I used the > balloon and soapy water method. Do you see any potential problems with > the gasket/Fuel Lube approach? > > > > John Testement > jwt@roadmapscoaching.com > 40321 > > Richmond, VA > Paint prep and LOTS of misc stuff > > do not archive > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jesse Saint > *Sent:* Friday, June 29, 2007 8:03 AM > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: QB tanks > > Dave, > > > > Some people are leaving out the gaskets completely and just using > proseal and others are going the other extreme, using no proseal and > just the gaskets. Either way has benefits. With just proseal, you > will probably go longer without leaks, but if/when it becomes time to > replace the senders, it will be more work to do so. Using just the > gaskets makes it much easier to change the senders, but the rubber > will most likely dry out and crack and give you leaks sometime down > the road. Many are using the gaskets and putting anywhere from a > little to a lot of proseal around them. We have started just using > the gaskets after putting a little proseal around the nutplates inside > the tank. I just tested a set of tanks and at first test there was a > leak around one of the screws on one tank that was fixed by a quarter > turn with a screwdriver. Maybe a good combination if you are worried > would be just the gaskets and then a bead around the outside of the > gasket with proseal, and maybe a little proseal around the screws (but > not on the head). > > > > Jesse Saint > > Saint Aviation, Inc. > > jesse@saintaviation.com > > www.saintaviation.com > > Cell: 352-427-0285 > > Fax: 815-377-3694 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > 6/28/2007 5:57 PM > > * * > * * > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > ** > ** > ** > *http://forums.matronics.com* > ** > * * > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > * > 6/28/2007 5:57 PM > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:55:58 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV Amphibian From: "dmaib@mac.com" I believe Trey got the plans for his floats from Mr. Bowhay. -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121250#121250 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:30 PM PST US From: Vernon Smith Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Wire Book for RV-10 Gary, There is a downloadable schematic for a RV7A at the following link: http:// www.matronics.com/photoshare/SMITHBKN@aol.com.12.25.2005/ it is under the t itle "Peer review Electrical.xls" It's based on a two battery/one alternator system with fuses (but breakers could be substituted.) It may give you some ideas. The cool thing is it is all in Excel and still you can manipulate the drawing without a CAD system. Vern Smith (#324 fuselage) > Subject: RV10-List: Re: Wire Book for RV-10> From: gary@wingscc.com> Dat e: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 07:14:18 -0700> To: rv10-list@matronics.com> > --> RV10 -List message posted by: "orchidman" > > Guess I needed t o be more specific. There are 2 samples on the AeroElectronic CD that are l abeled =98Wire Book=99 that are about 30 pages of wiring diagra ms. They are printable into a book form with a basic wiring diagram similar to what we see from many people plus other detailed diagrams with finer de tails of each segment or component.> > Has anyone done one of these for the =9310? Before you do a complete load analysis or inventory of all co mponents, you need a complete and detailed wiring diagram.> > --------> Gar y Blankenbiller> RV10 - # 40674> (N410GB reserved)> do not archive> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php? =====================> > > _________________________________________________________________ Play free games, earn tickets, get cool prizes! Join Live Search Club.- http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_wlmailtextlink ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:39:55 PM PST US From: carlos Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Wire Book for RV-10 Vernon Smith wrote: > Gary, > > There is a downloadable schematic for a RV7A at the following link: > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/SMITHBKN@aol.com.12.25.2005/ it is > under the title "Peer review Electrical.xls" > > It's based on a two battery/one alternator system with fuses (but > breakers could be substituted.) It may give you some ideas. The cool > thing is it is all in Excel and still you can manipulate the drawing > without a CAD system. > > Vern Smith (#324 fuselage) > > > > Subject: RV10-List: Re: Wire Book for RV-10 > > From: gary@wingscc.com > > Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 07:14:18 -0700 > > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > > > > > > Guess I needed to be more specific. There are 2 samples on the > AeroElectronic CD that are labeled Wire Book that are about 30 > pages of wiring diagrams. They are printable into a book form with a > basic wiring diagram similar to what we see from many people plus > other detailed diagrams with finer details of each segment or component. > > > > Has anyone done one of these for the 10? Before you do a complete > load analysis or inventory of all components, you need a complete and > detailed wiring diagram. > > > > -------- > > Gary Blankenbiller > > RV10 - # 40674 > > (N410GB reserved) > > do not archive > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121205#121205 > > > > > > > &g======================= > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Play free games, earn tickets, get cool prizes! Join Live Search > Club. Join Live Search Club! > > * > > > * > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Saved that one for later! Thanks Vern!! Carlos in AZ RV-7A N174PP-reserved Do Not Archive -- Carlos Hernandez Structural Engineers, LLC 2963 W. Elliot Rd. - Suite 3 Chandler, AZ 85224 Phone: 480.968.8600 Fax: 480.968.8608 www.sec-engr.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE The information in this email may be confidential and/or privileged. This email is intended to be reviewed by only the individual or organization named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination or copyingof this email and its attachments, if any, or the information contained herein is prohibited. If you havereceived this email in error, please immediately notify the sender by return email and delete this email from your system. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:40 PM PST US From: linn Walters Subject: Re: RV10-List: Starter damage after kick back on hot start This is all pretty much conjecture since I haven't a clue what really went on .... but kickback is usually caused by the right (non-impulse) mag firing at low engine RPM. The only other way for kickback to occur would be if there was a piece of red-hot carbon still in the offending cylinder .... and I wouldn't expect it to last the 5-8 minutes you were shut down. If you don't have a mag switch with a start position and you started on both ...... especially with the sky-tec starter ..... or the right mag has a p-lead problem ...... I'd expect to get kickback. Linn do not archive Randy DeBauw wrote: > We about a week ago I gave a friend a ride in Central Washington. It > was in the low 90's deg oat. I dropped him off and I was on the > ground for 5 - 8 min. When I tried my normal hot restart I have been > using for 2 years experienced a kick back. This was not normal at all > and to keep it from doing it again I went full rich on mix and ran > fuel pump for 5 seconds or so to add some cold fuel to the cylinders. > I knew that it would give me a flooded condition but that was my > intent. This added cool fuel the intake and I was able to make a > flooded hot start with no problem. Here is the issue. Immediately > after the kick back the starter started to make a grinding noise much > like the old Chevy starters that needed shimming. I pulled apart the > starter last night and looked it over. It looked fine. I called SkyTec > this morning and the confirmed that a kick back will almost always > cause a bent shaft in the starter. They make the starter so that it > will give way on kick backs and save the ring gear. They said that to > replace every part in the starter cost 150.00 buck and is a lot > cheaper than messing with a new flywheel ring gear. I agree!. So be > aware if a kick back happens to you and a new noise develops. Randy > 40006 > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:18 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Wire Book for RV-10 From: "orchidman" planesmith(at)hotmail.com wrote: > Gary, > > There is a downloadable schematic for a RV7A at the following link: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/SMITHBKN@aol.com.12.25.2005/ (http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/SMITHBKN@aol.com.12.25.2005/) it is under the title "Peer review Electrical.xls" > > It's based on a two battery/one alternator system with fuses (but breakers could be substituted.) It may give you some ideas. The cool thing is it is all in Excel and still you can manipulate the drawing without a CAD system. > > Vern Smith (#324 fuselage) > Vern, The link doesn't seem to work for me. Gary -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N410GB reserved) do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121300#121300 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:45 PM PST US From: "Dave Leikam" Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB tanks I blew the balloon up to what I thought would be easy to measure and detect shrinkage. No special size or pressure. I would think the pressure to inflate a balloon would not harm the tanks at all and the balloon would burst way before any damage would be done to the tank. Now I know even a moderately small amount of vacuum could crush the tanks. I believe sea level AP is about 14.5 psi? Dave Leikam 40496 ----- Original Message ----- From: "MauleDriver" Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 1:21 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB tanks > > I recently tested my tanks using the balloon and soap and water method. > No leaks found. > > I didn't have the nerve or knowledge to blow the balloon up to 14". The > warnings about not using too much pressure got my attention. I just took > up to where it the balloon starts to stretch if that makes any sense. How > much pressure should be used here? how do you measure it? should I redo it > and blow a balloon up to many inches? Your thoughts/experience welcome. > > I didn't use anything on the gasket but I intend to use fuel lube on both > the gasket and the threads. It appears to be what fuel lube if for - a > non-drying, petrochemical resistant sealant for fittings that have fuel > trying to leak out. I guess pro-seal sounds like the samething except it > would seem to get hard over time. > > Bill "installing wires for autopilot servo and LED position lights in > wings" Watson > > > John Testement wrote: >> I just put the Fuel Lube on the gasket, not the screws. We'll see if it >> keeps the gasket from drying. >> John >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jesse Saint >> *Sent:* Friday, June 29, 2007 9:26 AM >> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com >> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: QB tanks >> >> Did you use the lube on the threads of the screws or just on the face of >> the gasket? I cant say that I see any problem with it, although I am >> certainly no expert on Fuel Lube. The main problem with just using the >> gasket, as I understand it, is that the rubber can dry out and crack. I >> dont know the affect of fuel lube on the rubber. Others would be much >> more qualified to answer this. >> >> >> Do not archive >> >> >> Jesse Saint >> >> Saint Aviation, Inc. >> >> jesse@saintaviation.com >> >> www.saintaviation.com >> >> Cell: 352-427-0285 >> >> Fax: 815-377-3694 >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John >> Testement >> *Sent:* Friday, June 29, 2007 8:55 AM >> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com >> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: QB tanks >> >> >> Jesse, >> >> >> I used the gaskets with Fuel Lube. I have tested the tanks (even removed >> them to test the back side), and they test ok. I used the balloon and >> soapy water method. Do you see any potential problems with the >> gasket/Fuel Lube approach? >> >> >> John Testement >> jwt@roadmapscoaching.com >> 40321 >> >> Richmond, VA >> Paint prep and LOTS of misc stuff >> >> do not archive >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jesse Saint >> *Sent:* Friday, June 29, 2007 8:03 AM >> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com >> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: QB tanks >> >> Dave, >> >> >> Some people are leaving out the gaskets completely and just using proseal >> and others are going the other extreme, using no proseal and just the >> gaskets. Either way has benefits. With just proseal, you will probably >> go longer without leaks, but if/when it becomes time to replace the >> senders, it will be more work to do so. Using just the gaskets makes it >> much easier to change the senders, but the rubber will most likely dry >> out and crack and give you leaks sometime down the road. Many are using >> the gaskets and putting anywhere from a little to a lot of proseal around >> them. We have started just using the gaskets after putting a little >> proseal around the nutplates inside the tank. I just tested a set of >> tanks and at first test there was a leak around one of the screws on one >> tank that was fixed by a quarter turn with a screwdriver. Maybe a good >> combination if you are worried would be just the gaskets and then a bead >> around the outside of the gasket with proseal, and maybe a little proseal >> around the screws (but not on the head). >> >> >> Jesse Saint >> >> Saint Aviation, Inc. >> >> jesse@saintaviation.com >> >> www.saintaviation.com >> >> Cell: 352-427-0285 >> >> Fax: 815-377-3694 >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> 6/28/2007 5:57 PM >> >> * * >> * * >> ** >> ** >> ** >> ** >> ** >> ** >> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* >> ** >> ** >> ** >> *http://forums.matronics.com* >> ** >> * * >> * >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> >> * >> 6/28/2007 5:57 PM >> * >> >> >> * > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:46 PM PST US From: Jesse Saint Subject: RE: RV10-List: QB tanks The size of the balloon can shrink or grow with temperature change. I don't think the size of the balloon matters as much as it holding its pressure. Just IMHO. Also, a small balloon will pop before hitting 14". Size doesn't matter much here, guys, as long as it is consistent. Do not archive Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc jesse@saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com 352-427-0285 Leather interior kit for the RV-10 - www.saintaviation.com/interior -----Original Message----- From: "Dave Leikam" Sent: 6/30/2007 1:48 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB tanks I blew the balloon up to what I thought would be easy to measure and detect shrinkage. No special size or pressure. I would think the pressure to inflate a balloon would not harm the tanks at all and the balloon would burst way before any damage would be done to the tank. Now I know even a moderately small amount of vacuum could crush the tanks. I believe sea level AP is about 14.5 psi? Dave Leikam 40496 ----- Original Message ----- From: "MauleDriver" Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 1:21 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB tanks > > I recently tested my tanks using the balloon and soap and water method. > No leaks found. > > I didn't have the nerve or knowledge to blow the balloon up to 14". The > warnings about not using too much pressure got my attention. I just took > up to where it the balloon starts to stretch if that makes any sense. How > much pressure should be used here? how do you measure it? should I redo it > and blow a balloon up to many inches? Your thoughts/experience welcome. > > I didn't use anything on the gasket but I intend to use fuel lube on both > the gasket and the threads. It appears to be what fuel lube if for - a > non-drying, petrochemical resistant sealant for fittings that have fuel > trying to leak out. I guess pro-seal sounds like the samething except it > would seem to get hard over time. > > Bill "installing wires for autopilot servo and LED position lights in > wings" Watson > > > John Testement wrote: >> I just put the Fuel Lube on the gasket, not the screws. We'll see if it >> keeps the gasket from drying. >> John >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jesse Saint >> *Sent:* Friday, June 29, 2007 9:26 AM >> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com >> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: QB tanks >> >> Did you use the lube on the threads of the screws or just on the face of >> the gasket? I cant say that I see any problem with it, although I am >> certainly no expert on Fuel Lube. The main problem with just using the >> gasket, as I understand it, is that the rubber can dry out and crack. I >> dont know the affect of fuel lube on the rubber. Others would be much >> more qualified to answer this. >> >> >> Do not archive >> >> >> Jesse Saint >> >> Saint Aviation, Inc. >> >> jesse@saintaviation.com >> >> www.saintaviation.com >> >> Cell: 352-427-0285 >> >> Fax: 815-377-3694 >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John >> Testement >> *Sent:* Friday, June 29, 2007 8:55 AM >> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com >> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: QB tanks >> >> >> Jesse, >> >> >> I used the gaskets with Fuel Lube. I have tested the tanks (even removed >> them to test the back side), and they test ok. I used the balloon and >> soapy water method. Do you see any potential problems with the >> gasket/Fuel Lube approach? >> >> >> John Testement >> jwt@roadmapscoaching.com >> 40321 >> >> Richmond, VA >> Paint prep and LOTS of misc stuff >> >> do not archive >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jesse Saint >> *Sent:* Friday, June 29, 2007 8:03 AM >> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com >> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: QB tanks >> >> Dave, >> >> >> Some people are leaving out the gaskets completely and just using proseal >> and others are going the other extreme, using no proseal and just the >> gaskets. Either way has benefits. With just proseal, you will probably >> go longer without leaks, but if/when it becomes time to replace the >> senders, it will be more work to do so. Using just the gaskets makes it >> much easier to change the senders, but the rubber will most likely dry >> out and crack and give you leaks sometime down the road. Many are using >> the gaskets and putting anywhere from a little to a lot of proseal around >> them. We have started just using the gaskets after putting a little >> proseal around the nutplates inside the tank. I just tested a set of >> tanks and at first test there was a leak around one of the screws on o [truncated by sender] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.