Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:40 AM - Re: tungsten bucking bar (Bob Leffler)
2. 04:55 AM - Re: tungsten bucking bar (John W. Cox)
3. 11:38 AM - Vic Syracuse (Jeff Carpenter)
4. 12:04 PM - Re: Vic Syracuse (Tim Olson)
5. 12:33 PM - Alternator power wiring, alternator whine (Tim Lewis)
6. 12:53 PM - Re: Vic Syracuse (Tim Olson)
7. 12:54 PM - Re: Alternator power wiring, alternator whine (Tim Olson)
8. 03:39 PM - Re: Alternator power wiring, alternator whine (Kelly McMullen)
9. 05:24 PM - Re: Alternator power wiring, alternator whine (GenGrumpy@aol.com)
10. 06:43 PM - Re: Alternator power wiring, alternator whine (David McNeill)
11. 07:10 PM - Re: Aileron pushrod rubbing against aileron mounting bracket o (dmaib@mac.com)
12. 07:58 PM - What will it be worth? (Doug Gee)
13. 08:36 PM - Re: Re: Aileron pushrod rubbing against aileron mounting bracket o (Rick Sked)
14. 08:38 PM - Re: What will it be worth? (Deems Davis)
15. 08:41 PM - Re: Alternator power wiring, alternator whine (Rick Sked)
16. 08:49 PM - Re: What will it be worth? (Rick Sked)
17. 09:05 PM - Re: What will it be worth? (Ben Westfall)
18. 09:35 PM - Re: What will it be worth? (Dj Merrill)
19. 09:38 PM - Re: What will it be worth? (Robin Marks)
Message 1
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| Subject: | tungsten bucking bar |
I purchased mine from Grov-Air when I took the builder's class there. On
Troy's advice, it was the only bar I purchased, which the exception of the
special one for the tail. It has worked great. The price isn't so bad if
you consider not purchasing the other 3-4 bars that come in the standard
kits.
The bar is 5/8" x 1" x 4" with a 10 degree angle.
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 12:55 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: tungsten bucking bar
Dave
I purchased the Cleaveland bar at KOSH. I have just spent the day riveting
the forward fuse bottom skins with it. Actually my friend Larry was on the
bar and I was on the gun. Anyway, we were able to use it to do all but a few
of the rivets. It has a small cross section so it can get into very tight
spaces.
I expect that it is a bit more usable than a bar that is shaped more like a
bar of soap rather than the long thin bar from Cleaveland. It is worth
noting that one end of the Cleaveland bar has a slight bevel which was very
hand in tight spots around flanges etc.
It has made an immense difference in my riveting especially when shooting
AN470 rivets.
Cheers
Les Kearney
RV # 40643
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: August-11-07 9:08 PM
Subject: RV10-List: tungsten bucking bar
Does anyone recommend purchasing a tungsten bucking bar? They are pricey
little buggers. And what size do you recommend?
Dave Leikam
40496
QB Wings
__________ NOD32 2453 (20070812) Information __________
Message 2
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| Subject: | tungsten bucking bar |
Second to a pneumatic squeezer, the tungsten bar is invaluable at making
the project move more quickly and increases the quality of the finished
product. Brown Tool has one that is 4.0" x 5/8" x 1" which goes for
$160. The same bar at Cleaveland is $120.00. You could find the
material a little cheaper on Ebay but it is not worth the effort to put
the angles on each end. And of course you are helping Mike by
considering Cleaveland. Like Stein for electrical, these are the guys
that all suppliers should emulate.
Guys ask to borrow mine at work on a nightly basis.
John C.
#40600
Do not Archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 8:08 PM
Subject: RV10-List: tungsten bucking bar
Does anyone recommend purchasing a tungsten bucking bar? They are
pricey little buggers. And what size do you recommend?
Dave Leikam
40496
QB Wings
Message 3
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I just checked out the ntsb site... something I do from time to time
to help me understand how people can get killed in airplanes when I
came across this:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 070628X00844&key=1
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Vic Syracuse |
Of course, you do know that Vic is alive and well, and that this was
just one of his (I believe it was his first) airplanes that he
built over the years... I had no clue one crashed, but hope to head
off any speculation that Vic's dead. If he did die June 24th, then
the guy I talked to earlier this week sure did a good impersonation.
Too bad to hear that his first creation was destroyed though.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Jeff Carpenter wrote:
>
> I just checked out the ntsb site... something I do from time to time to
> help me understand how people can get killed in airplanes when I came
> across this:
>
> http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 070628X00844&key=1
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Alternator power wiring, alternator whine |
Listers with flying RV-10s,
I'd like some feedback on how you wired your alternator, and how that's
working out.
- Van's wiring kit calls for #8 wire from the alternator to the 60 amp
alternator breaker on the bus.
- Both Aeroelectric Bob and the Blue Mountain guys advocate running the
alternator output directly to the battery, and then wire from there to
the bus (to allow the battery to absorb as much of the alternator ripple
as possible). On my RV-6A I wired the alternator output to the bus (#6
wire), and I do get alternator whine on the audio.
- If I follow the Aeroelectric guidance and use #8 wire I'll see a .71
volt drop between the alternator and the battery at 60 amps. With #6
wire I'd see a drop of .45 volts.
Questions:
1. What approach did you take for connecting your alternator to the
rest of the electrical system?
2. Do you hear any alternator whine when you are running a heavy
electrical load?
Thanks,
Tim Lewis
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 900 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Vic Syracuse |
As an additional clarification I should have also added, Vic doesn't
own that airplane anymore either.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Of course, you do know that Vic is alive and well, and that this was
> just one of his (I believe it was his first) airplanes that he
> built over the years... I had no clue one crashed, but hope to head
> off any speculation that Vic's dead. If he did die June 24th, then
> the guy I talked to earlier this week sure did a good impersonation.
>
> Too bad to hear that his first creation was destroyed though.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Jeff Carpenter wrote:
>>
>> I just checked out the ntsb site... something I do from time to time
>> to help me understand how people can get killed in airplanes when I
>> came across this:
>>
>> http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 070628X00844&key=1
>>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator power wiring, alternator whine |
Tim,
I don't think #8 wire is a big drawback on the -10. I think I
might have wired for 6 if I remember right, but in practice
I'm only drawing a max of about 42A, so #8 would have been
fine.
I wired my alternator through an ANL fuse, then to the starter
contactor which had the wire attached that goes back to
the battery also. So, my alternator is *basically* feeding
direct to the battery, but I tapped off that spot to feed my main
bus also. You're tapping off a pretty large wire, so there
really isn't a significant difference in where you tap into
it. I used #2 welding cable for the battery run.
I hear no alternator whine...period.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Tim Lewis wrote:
>
> Listers with flying RV-10s,
>
> I'd like some feedback on how you wired your alternator, and how that's
> working out.
>
> - Van's wiring kit calls for #8 wire from the alternator to the 60 amp
> alternator breaker on the bus.
> - Both Aeroelectric Bob and the Blue Mountain guys advocate running the
> alternator output directly to the battery, and then wire from there to
> the bus (to allow the battery to absorb as much of the alternator ripple
> as possible). On my RV-6A I wired the alternator output to the bus (#6
> wire), and I do get alternator whine on the audio.
> - If I follow the Aeroelectric guidance and use #8 wire I'll see a .71
> volt drop between the alternator and the battery at 60 amps. With #6
> wire I'd see a drop of .45 volts.
>
> Questions: 1. What approach did you take for connecting your alternator
> to the rest of the electrical system?
> 2. Do you hear any alternator whine when you are running a heavy
> electrical load?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim Lewis
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator power wiring, alternator whine |
Hmmm,
Relatively standard practice in production aircraft is to run large wire
from master relay at battery up left side to starter relay on firewall,
and connect from there to buss. Alternator connects to voltage regulator
to buss. So battery is connected via master relay to the buss and
through the buss to the alternator.
Tim Lewis wrote:
>
> Listers with flying RV-10s,
>
> I'd like some feedback on how you wired your alternator, and how
> that's working out.
>
> - Van's wiring kit calls for #8 wire from the alternator to the 60 amp
> alternator breaker on the bus.
> - Both Aeroelectric Bob and the Blue Mountain guys advocate running
> the alternator output directly to the battery, and then wire from
> there to the bus (to allow the battery to absorb as much of the
> alternator ripple as possible). On my RV-6A I wired the alternator
> output to the bus (#6 wire), and I do get alternator whine on the audio.
> - If I follow the Aeroelectric guidance and use #8 wire I'll see a .71
> volt drop between the alternator and the battery at 60 amps. With #6
> wire I'd see a drop of .45 volts.
>
> Questions: 1. What approach did you take for connecting your
> alternator to the rest of the electrical system?
> 2. Do you hear any alternator whine when you are running a heavy
> electrical load?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim Lewis
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator power wiring, alternator whine |
I have whine off of my main 60a alternator.
Have installeed a Lone Star alternator noise filter, but it hasn't helped me
much, so if anyone out there has a good idea on noise suppression, I'd
appreciate it also.
My problem has been there from day one, and just got worse the last couple of
flights, so I replaced the previous Lone Star filter.....but that didn't help.
Grumpy
N184JM
60+ hours
In a message dated 8/12/2007 2:55:57 PM Central Standard Time, Tim@MyRV10.com
writes:
Tim,
I don't think #8 wire is a big drawback on the -10. I think I
might have wired for 6 if I remember right, but in practice
I'm only drawing a max of about 42A, so #8 would have been
fine.
I wired my alternator through an ANL fuse, then to the starter
contactor which had the wire attached that goes back to
the battery also. So, my alternator is *basically* feeding
direct to the battery, but I tapped off that spot to feed my main
bus also. You're tapping off a pretty large wire, so there
really isn't a significant difference in where you tap into
it. I used #2 welding cable for the battery run.
I hear no alternator whine...period.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Tim Lewis wrote:
>
> Listers with flying RV-10s,
>
> I'd like some feedback on how you wired your alternator, and how that's
> working out.
>
> - Van's wiring kit calls for #8 wire from the alternator to the 60 amp
> alternator breaker on the bus.
> - Both Aeroelectric Bob and the Blue Mountain guys advocate running the
> alternator output directly to the battery, and then wire from there to
> the bus (to allow the battery to absorb as much of the alternator ripple
> as possible). On my RV-6A I wired the alternator output to the bus (#6
> wire), and I do get alternator whine on the audio.
> - If I follow the Aeroelectric guidance and use #8 wire I'll see a .71
> volt drop between the alternator and the battery at 60 amps. With #6
> wire I'd see a drop of .45 volts.
>
> Questions: 1. What approach did you take for connecting your alternator
> to the rest of the electrical system?
> 2. Do you hear any alternator whine when you are running a heavy
> electrical load?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim Lewis
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 10
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| Subject: | Alternator power wiring, alternator whine |
Agree. I ran #2 from the primary battery and between the primary and
secondary batteries. There are two master relays connected to grounding
toggle circuit breakers on the panel. The hot side of the starter relay has
a #8 wire running to the primary bus. The alternator #8 B+ runs to a bar
connecting two 30A pull-able breakers on the primary bus. The field toggle
breaker on the primary bus controls the output of the alternator.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Alternator power wiring, alternator whine
Hmmm,
Relatively standard practice in production aircraft is to run large wire
from master relay at battery up left side to starter relay on firewall,
and connect from there to buss. Alternator connects to voltage regulator
to buss. So battery is connected via master relay to the buss and
through the buss to the alternator.
Tim Lewis wrote:
>
> Listers with flying RV-10s,
>
> I'd like some feedback on how you wired your alternator, and how
> that's working out.
>
> - Van's wiring kit calls for #8 wire from the alternator to the 60 amp
> alternator breaker on the bus.
> - Both Aeroelectric Bob and the Blue Mountain guys advocate running
> the alternator output directly to the battery, and then wire from
> there to the bus (to allow the battery to absorb as much of the
> alternator ripple as possible). On my RV-6A I wired the alternator
> output to the bus (#6 wire), and I do get alternator whine on the audio.
> - If I follow the Aeroelectric guidance and use #8 wire I'll see a .71
> volt drop between the alternator and the battery at 60 amps. With #6
> wire I'd see a drop of .45 volts.
>
> Questions: 1. What approach did you take for connecting your
> alternator to the rest of the electrical system?
> 2. Do you hear any alternator whine when you are running a heavy
> electrical load?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim Lewis
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron pushrod rubbing against aileron mounting bracket |
o
I mounted my bellcrank to aileron pushrod this weekend and find the same issue.
The pushrod is just barely rubbing the bracket at full deflection.
Any more thoughts on this issue?
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128847#128847
Message 12
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| Subject: | What will it be worth? |
I am a pilot and own a 172. I have never built a plane before but after talking
with the folks at Van's at Sun n Fun and going for a ride in the RV10, I am
very interested in giving it a try. I spent several hours with the fine folks
at the sheet metal shop at Sun n Fun and they provided a wealth of info and gave
me basic instruction. I was already to order the tools and the tail kit when
I reviewed the project with my airplane mechanic and he informed me that I
would be lucky to get half of the investment back when it was completed. I have
since checked the internet and I see some for sale at well above the materials
cost. I have to admit that a used 182 could be bought for about the cost
of the RV10 materials with similar performance and it is certified. Can anyone
tell me what it is really going to be worth (assuming new everything)? I see
what people are asking for them but what are they actually selling for?
Thanks
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron pushrod rubbing against aileron mounting bracket |
o
Many times answered before....when both wings are on the aileron stop does not
allow the aileron to deflect far enough to hit the bracket...really, trust us...this
question always comes up when someone reaches the point in the wings where
they test the aileron actuation for the first time....don't feel bad, your
not the first..I think I was, and you won't be the last.
Rick S.
Remote transponder wiring at the kitchen table while the A/C is keeping me cool.
Finishing
----- Original Message -----
From: dmaib@mac.com
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 7:07:59 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Aileron pushrod rubbing against aileron mounting bracket
o
I mounted my bellcrank to aileron pushrod this weekend and find the same issue.
The pushrod is just barely rubbing the bracket at full deflection.
Any more thoughts on this issue?
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128847#128847
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: What will it be worth? |
Doug,
1. I'm not sure what basis your mechanic used for his statement. And
perhaps several years ago it may have been closer to the truth, but with
Over 5000 RV planes flying, Van's planes are becoming more mainstream
daily. an RV 6 'exceptional airplane' recently sold for $106K (posted on
Matronics). For what ever reason people are reluctant to post/disclose
what price they paid for a plane for. But as further evidence against
what your mechanic decries. Is the INCREASING number of Ultra fast
build/build for hire operations that are emerging. Obviously these
'businesses' are making a profit and the increasing number of them
indicates that there are buyers who are willing to pay the prices. So
when you see advertised prices for RV-10's in excess of $200K (depending
upon equipped options) I think its reasonable to assume that they
selling without deep discounts.
2. Are your plans to build it and then sell it? Or are you planning on
building it for your own education and recreation with the possibility
of selling it at some future date if/when the plane no longer fits you
mission? If it's the later, I would further argue that all of the
trendlines and inflation argue for a protection of your investment.
3. Depending upon how long you expect to own/operate the aircraft. If
you build it and receive the repairman's certificate. You will avoid
expensive future encounters with your 'mechanic'.
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
Doug Gee wrote:
>
> I am a pilot and own a 172. I have never built a plane before but after talking
with the folks at Van's at Sun n Fun and going for a ride in the RV10, I am
very interested in giving it a try. I spent several hours with the fine folks
at the sheet metal shop at Sun n Fun and they provided a wealth of info and
gave me basic instruction. I was already to order the tools and the tail kit
when I reviewed the project with my airplane mechanic and he informed me that
I would be lucky to get half of the investment back when it was completed. I
have since checked the internet and I see some for sale at well above the materials
cost. I have to admit that a used 182 could be bought for about the cost
of the RV10 materials with similar performance and it is certified. Can anyone
tell me what it is really going to be worth (assuming new everything)? I
see what people are asking for them but what are they actually selling for?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator power wiring, alternator whine |
The only time my alternator whines is if I make it take out the trash...sorry,
haven't spun mine up yet.
Grumpy...you using Accuracy's power grid? The alternator feeds the system through
that grid and not directly back via a dedicated feed, I installed mine yesterday
and have some chin scratching about if I want to do it (alternator) Tony's
way or not.
Rick S.
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 12:54:09 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Alternator power wiring, alternator whine
Tim,
I don't think #8 wire is a big drawback on the -10. I think I
might have wired for 6 if I remember right, but in practice
I'm only drawing a max of about 42A, so #8 would have been
fine.
I wired my alternator through an ANL fuse, then to the starter
contactor which had the wire attached that goes back to
the battery also. So, my alternator is *basically* feeding
direct to the battery, but I tapped off that spot to feed my main
bus also. You're tapping off a pretty large wire, so there
really isn't a significant difference in where you tap into
it. I used #2 welding cable for the battery run.
I hear no alternator whine...period.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Tim Lewis wrote:
>
> Listers with flying RV-10s,
>
> I'd like some feedback on how you wired your alternator, and how that's
> working out.
>
> - Van's wiring kit calls for #8 wire from the alternator to the 60 amp
> alternator breaker on the bus.
> - Both Aeroelectric Bob and the Blue Mountain guys advocate running the
> alternator output directly to the battery, and then wire from there to
> the bus (to allow the battery to absorb as much of the alternator ripple
> as possible). On my RV-6A I wired the alternator output to the bus (#6
> wire), and I do get alternator whine on the audio.
> - If I follow the Aeroelectric guidance and use #8 wire I'll see a .71
> volt drop between the alternator and the battery at 60 amps. With #6
> wire I'd see a drop of .45 volts.
>
> Questions: 1. What approach did you take for connecting your alternator
> to the rest of the electrical system?
> 2. Do you hear any alternator whine when you are running a heavy
> electrical load?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim Lewis
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: What will it be worth? |
Build it for the satifaction and the love of creation....If I made $75,000 on mine
it would not be enough to cover the time, fun, blood, sweat and tears not
to mention the immense feeling of satisfaction that comes with this process. Just
guessing, but you could easily get your "money" out of it. That is if you
built it well enough to attract a buyer, but then again W.C Fields mentioned something
about someone born every minute.
Rick S.
40185
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis@cox.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 8:37:33 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: Re: RV10-List: What will it be worth?
Doug,
1. I'm not sure what basis your mechanic used for his statement. And
perhaps several years ago it may have been closer to the truth, but with
Over 5000 RV planes flying, Van's planes are becoming more mainstream
daily. an RV 6 'exceptional airplane' recently sold for $106K (posted on
Matronics). For what ever reason people are reluctant to post/disclose
what price they paid for a plane for. But as further evidence against
what your mechanic decries. Is the INCREASING number of Ultra fast
build/build for hire operations that are emerging. Obviously these
'businesses' are making a profit and the increasing number of them
indicates that there are buyers who are willing to pay the prices. So
when you see advertised prices for RV-10's in excess of $200K (depending
upon equipped options) I think its reasonable to assume that they
selling without deep discounts.
2. Are your plans to build it and then sell it? Or are you planning on
building it for your own education and recreation with the possibility
of selling it at some future date if/when the plane no longer fits you
mission? If it's the later, I would further argue that all of the
trendlines and inflation argue for a protection of your investment.
3. Depending upon how long you expect to own/operate the aircraft. If
you build it and receive the repairman's certificate. You will avoid
expensive future encounters with your 'mechanic'.
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
Doug Gee wrote:
>
> I am a pilot and own a 172. I have never built a plane before but after talking
with the folks at Van's at Sun n Fun and going for a ride in the RV10, I am
very interested in giving it a try. I spent several hours with the fine folks
at the sheet metal shop at Sun n Fun and they provided a wealth of info and
gave me basic instruction. I was already to order the tools and the tail kit
when I reviewed the project with my airplane mechanic and he informed me that
I would be lucky to get half of the investment back when it was completed. I
have since checked the internet and I see some for sale at well above the materials
cost. I have to admit that a used 182 could be bought for about the cost
of the RV10 materials with similar performance and it is certified. Can anyone
tell me what it is really going to be worth (assuming new everything)? I
see what people are asking for them but what are they actually selling for?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | What will it be worth? |
Let's break it down...
NEW Airplane that cruises 160-165kts, climbs at 1500-2000 ft/min, has a
plethora of EFIS displays to choose from that you can maintain yourself for
$130,000 to $180,000.... Yeah you gotta want to build it.
- vs -
Used (30+ years used) 182 that cruises at 125-130kts, has a vacuum pump and
standard 6 pack, requires an A&P IA every time you touch it for 80,000 -
120,000+
I am assuming you weren't even considering a $400,000 new Cessna.
I'm not knocking 182's at all but side by side comparison really shows how
strong the 10 is. 182's are excellent aircraft. I had myself, 2 other
adults, and a teenager in one the other day. We climbed to 10,000 and
circled Mt. St. Helens. Excellent airplane, everyone was comfortable. Oh
yeah we were in that cause the 10 isnt finished yet!!
I don't think there is really a right or wrong answer to this as it depends
entirely on the person. You have to want to build an airplane to put
together a 10. If it were your full time job it would take more than a year
to complete. Do you have that kind of time to spend? How long will it take
you to carve out 2500+ hours to assemble this from your daily grind?
Now about the money... If you can't sell it for what you have into it (not
counting labor) then something is seriously wrong and most likely it's the
manufacturer (you) that did the something wrong.
The resources available to builders today have really changed the face of
"experimental" airplanes. The EAA and having communities such as this one
available nearly 24x7 for comment has been invaluable. I can't imagine
doing this without the Randy DeBauw's, Tim Olson's, Deems Davis's, and yes
even 1/2 of what John Cox says, just kidding John! Spend some time looking
through Tim's website http://www.myrv10.com and you'll see what I mean.
Call me some time if you want to discuss more 503-639-4049 PST.
-Ben Westfall
PDX
#40579 - Fuse (damn Section #29)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Gee
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 7:55 PM
Subject: RV10-List: What will it be worth?
<Doug.Gee@firestone-textiles.com>
I am a pilot and own a 172. I have never built a plane before but after
talking with the folks at Van's at Sun n Fun and going for a ride in the
RV10, I am very interested in giving it a try. I spent several hours with
the fine folks at the sheet metal shop at Sun n Fun and they provided a
wealth of info and gave me basic instruction. I was already to order the
tools and the tail kit when I reviewed the project with my airplane mechanic
and he informed me that I would be lucky to get half of the investment back
when it was completed. I have since checked the internet and I see some for
sale at well above the materials cost. I have to admit that a used 182
could be bought for about the cost of the RV10 materials with similar
performance and it is certified. Can anyone tell me what it is really going
to be worth (assuming new everything)? I see what people are asking for them
but what are they actually selling for?
Thanks
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: What will it be worth? |
Doug Gee wrote:
>
> ...when I reviewed the project with my airplane mechanic and he informed me that
I would be lucky to get half of the investment back when it was completed.
> I have to admit that a used 182 could be bought for about the cost of the RV10
materials with similar performance and it is certified.
Hi Doug,
My personal opinion only but it does not sound as if your mechanic is
well versed in experimental aircraft, especially the RV-10 you are
considering. I've run into this many times when trying to get a
mechanic to work on the Glasair that I used to own (built by the
previous owner).
Aside from that, the 182 doesn't really have similar performance, and
if you were to buy a new Cessna to compare to the new RV-10, you would
be paying well over twice as much for the Cessna as compared to the
RV-10. You should consider a 4 place Lancair or Cirrus if you want to
compare with something more similar to the RV-10.
If you do decide to build, you may want to consider getting all of the
quick build options to help cut down on the build time, or you could
even consider the Two Weeks to Taxi program if you are really impatient
(http://www.twoweekstotaxi.com/).
My half cents, FWIW,
-Dj
do not archive
Message 19
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| Subject: | What will it be worth? |
Dear Doug,
I am sure you will get a lot of additional responses to the
actual value of your project once complete vs. a certified 182 or the
like so I will address your comment about "similar performance."
Did you really fly in the RV-10? When I flew the -10 at SNF (I
am 7 months from first flight and currently fly a 6A, Turbo Lance II,
D-35 Bonanza) Vans demo plane had 3 - 200+ Lbs occupants and full tanks.
We climbed out at 1500" per minute and were moving right along in level
flight in no time. The demo pilot mentioned that the factory -10
regularly outperforms the factory RV-7 in both climb and cruse. That is
impressive because my little 6A hustles right along (flew back from LA
today at 180 kts). If my -10 matches my 6A's performance I will be VERY
happy.
About 2 months ago I was the safety pilot for a friend IFR
recurrent training in his mint 182. It was just the two of us (unknown
tanks) and my only thought during the entire 90 minutes was "is this all
it has?" Wow that would make for some very long trips. The 182 seemed
like a great way to build time because it was SLOW. I have to say it
seemed like a great IFR platform because it was so stable but stable &
slow. I think his fuel burn was in the neighborhood of 18 GPH. I hope to
be closer to 13 GPH in my -10 (some people are flying LOP under 10 GPM).
If those numbers hold I expect to get close to twice the MPG as his 182.
That is a significant savings right there.
If you do end up building a -10 you will also enjoy the benefit
of the repairman's certificate. My annuals in the -6A can be under $500.
Some builder/owners have annuals under $200.00. Double either of those
numbers and you are still a miles away from your basic $5,000 annual or
the SURPRISE $8,700 annual that once can expect on any 30 year old
plane. With a -10 you will probably have a zero time motor, prop etc...
That is real peace of mind (once the fly off is behind you) vs. the
variety pack of items added and removed over the course of 30 years. I
think if you just take into consideration the difference in cost of
annuals over a 10 year period that is enough to sway one (financially)
to an experimental.
Moving on to the actual flying of the plane. Because you are the
builder you can choose what you want in YOUR plane. My plane will have
two DVD players integrated in the cockpit as one of my priorities is to
get my family to think about something other than "are we there yet" and
my daughter's favorite "is that noise normal?" Yes I have some anxious
flyers in my family. Between the DVD's, audio & video hook ups that
should keep them busy. To please me we will be putting in a triple glass
panel, integrated dual 18 watt radios, triple battery system, &
integrated O2, full leather and a beer dispenser. OK, I made that last
part up but you get the idea. You don't get to fly an all glass
certified plane unless you get a much newer version. Then the costs are
not even close. Basically you can have whatever you want in your plane.
I could go on & on as to the benefits to non-certified planes
but I have been known to talk myself into a lot of different things.
Good luck,
Robin
RV-4 Sold
RV-6A 370 hours
RV-10 Sooner or Later, probably later...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Gee
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 7:55 PM
Subject: RV10-List: What will it be worth?
<Doug.Gee@firestone-textiles.com>
I am a pilot and own a 172. I have never built a plane before but after
talking with the folks at Van's at Sun n Fun and going for a ride in the
RV10, I am very interested in giving it a try. I spent several hours
with the fine folks at the sheet metal shop at Sun n Fun and they
provided a wealth of info and gave me basic instruction. I was already
to order the tools and the tail kit when I reviewed the project with my
airplane mechanic and he informed me that I would be lucky to get half
of the investment back when it was completed. I have since checked the
internet and I see some for sale at well above the materials cost. I
have to admit that a used 182 could be bought for about the cost of the
RV10 materials with similar performance and it is certified. Can anyone
tell me what it is really going to be worth (assuming new everything)? I
see what people are asking for them but what are they actually selling
for?
Thanks
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