Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:39 AM - Re: Alodine Question (Bob Leffler)
2. 04:12 AM - Re: Alodine Question (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
3. 04:15 AM - Re: Alodine Question (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
4. 05:15 AM - Re: Second Airplane? (Rob Kermanj)
5. 06:28 AM - Re: Second Airplane? (David McNeill)
6. 06:43 AM - Re: Re: Alodine Question ()
7. 07:08 AM - FW: check this (David McNeill)
8. 07:13 AM - Re: Re: Alodine Question (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
9. 08:03 AM - Re: Second Airplane? (Robin Marks)
10. 08:15 AM - Re: FW: check this (William DeLacey)
11. 08:56 AM - Re: Lights, Engine, & FF Kit Q's (Rhonda Bewley)
12. 09:09 AM - Re: Second Airplane? (John Jessen)
13. 09:25 AM - Re: Second Airplane? (Phillips, Jack)
14. 09:53 AM - Re: FW: check this (Dave Saylor)
15. 09:55 AM - Re: Lights, Engine, & FF Kit Q's (orchidman)
16. 10:09 AM - Re: Re: Lights, Engine, & FF Kit Q's (Rhonda Bewley)
17. 10:54 AM - Re: Re: Lights, Engine, & FF Kit Q's (John W. Cox)
18. 11:12 AM - Alodine (Fred Williams, M.D.)
19. 11:53 AM - Fuel senders (John Gonzalez)
20. 12:47 PM - Re: Re: Rivethead Aero, are you out there? (Vernon Smith)
21. 12:51 PM - Re: Fuel senders (pilotdds@aol.com)
22. 01:02 PM - Re: Fuel senders (evmeg@snowcrest.net)
23. 01:15 PM - Side mounting Odyssey PC925 battery (Vernon Smith)
24. 01:25 PM - Re: Side mounting Odyssey PC925 battery (Chris and Susie McGough)
25. 04:20 PM - Re: Second Airplane? (Marcus Cooper)
26. 10:43 PM - Nose Wheel Torque (Jeff Carpenter)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Alodine Question |
I suspect some sort of contamination, but not with the alodine solution.
During the same session, I treated fifty plus components with no issues what
so ever. It was only on the four elevator skins, which couldn't fit into
the dip tank. My thoughts that the contamination may have come from the
foam brush, but it came from the same package of brushes that I used before
without incident.
Hopefully, I can identify the true cause of this so it can be prevented in
the future. Also, these blue-green splotches cleared up after completing
drying. They now appear as if those areas were never treated.
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
DLIUDVINAITIS@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 11:16 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Alodine Question
BOB
I ALSO SEEN THIS BLUE STAINING WHEN USING ALODINE, IT DID TAKE LONGER TO
REACT TO ALUMINUM. MUST BE CONTAMINATED WITH METAL PREP CLEANING SOLUTION. I
DUMPED OLD SOLUTION WENT WITH NEW, NO PROBLEMS NOW, I AM APPLYING IT FULL
STRENGHT WITH A SPONGE. IT REACTS IN 3 MINS TURNING LIGHT GOLD IN COLOR, NO
NEED TO BE ANY DARKER JUST GOLD.
DAVE LUDD #40466
FUSELAGE
_____
See what's n="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.
__________ NOD32 2518 (20070910) Information __________
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| Subject: | Alodine Question |
Bob,
I used mine for almost 2 years without ever mixing in new and I occasionally
saw what you are talking about. After about 6 months or so the Alodine mix didn't
seem to be working as well and started to show some of what you are seeing.
Turns out the stuff just needed to be mixed up and kept agitated. Because
I always kept mine in a 30 gal trash can I just threw in a fairly large aquarium
power head with a long hose attached to it. I left it on 24/7 and when I
need to fill a dip tank it also doubled as a way to pump it in to the tank via
the hose. Worked fine from then on.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 7:07 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alodine Question
I used about 5 gallons in my dip tank, which is the shipping crate that the
spars for the empennage came in. The first time I used it was back in
March, then in May, and finally today. I've added about a gallon of new
each time.
I haven't seen rings in the plastic containers I store the alodine in and I
keep it in a dark corner of the basement. I didn't get any discoloration in
the pieces that were fully dipped, just the larger pieces that were painted
with a foam brush.
I'll pass along Eldorado's comments when/if I get them.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Williams,
M.D.
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Alodine Question
<drfred@suddenlinkmail.com>
Bob;
I have used the same solution as you have and have also had occasional
staining of areas. I think it is the chromate. It seems to form more in
the older solutions. I keep the mixed dorado kote in a clean plastic
bucket. As it gets older a green ring will start to form around the top
of the bucket. Concurrently, the solution takes longer to react with the
surface. I can usually rinse most of it off. I have used Sherwin
Williams primer over the top of those stains and have not seen any
flaking or change in the coat.
I would be interested in hearing their reply.
Fred Williams
40515
Bob Leffler wrote:
>
> I've been using Dorado Kote 1 for some time now with good results. All
> the parts that I put into the dip tank this afternoon came out looking
> great. In the past, I've used a foam brush to coat the solution on the
> inside of the skins and other parts too large to fit into the tank. I
> not had any problems doing this before. However, today on several of
> the skins, I had some blue-green splotches appear instead of the
> normal bronze color.
>
> Any idea what may have caused this? Should this cause a concern?
> Should I attempt to remove this or is it ok to prime with AKZO?
>
> I've also sent an email off to Eldorado already, so hopefully I'll
> hear back from them tomorrow.
>
> *
>
>
> *
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
__________ NOD32 2516 (20070909) Information __________
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| Subject: | Alodine Question |
Hmm, now that does sound different than what I have seen. Try cleaning
those areas with some soapy water and run through the process again to see
if that makes some difference.
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 5:39 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alodine Question
I suspect some sort of contamination, but not with the alodine solution. D
uring the same session, I treated fifty plus components with no issues what
so ever. It was only on the four elevator skins, which couldn't fit into
the dip tank. My thoughts that the contamination may have come from the fo
am brush, but it came from the same package of brushes that I used before w
ithout incident.
Hopefully, I can identify the true cause of this so it can be prevented in
the future. Also, these blue-green splotches cleared up after completing d
rying. They now appear as if those areas were never treated.
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of DLIUDVINAITIS@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 11:16 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Alodine Question
BOB
I ALSO SEEN THIS BLUE STAINING WHEN USING ALODINE, IT DID TAKE LONGER TO RE
ACT TO ALUMINUM. MUST BE CONTAMINATED WITH METAL PREP CLEANING SOLUTION. I
DUMPED OLD SOLUTION WENT WITH NEW, NO PROBLEMS NOW, I AM APPLYING IT FULL S
TRENGHT WITH A SPONGE. IT REACTS IN 3 MINS TURNING LIGHT GOLD IN COLOR, NO
NEED TO BE ANY DARKER JUST GOLD.
DAVE LUDD #40466
FUSELAGE
________________________________
See what's n="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
__________ NOD32 2518 (20070910) Information __________
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Second Airplane? |
Robin, I kept my RV6 along with the 10 for a few months. The fuel
prices took a huge leap during the 10 construction and I thought that
the 6 would facilitate "puddle jumping" but I found out that:
My wife would not fly in the 6 any longer considering the additional
passenger comfort the 10 offers.
It was too much work for me to keep both plane serviced, safe and
ready since I gravitated to work on the 10 more often.
It does not cost a whole lot more to operate the 10.
So after a few months, I sold my 6.
Do not archive.
On Sep 9, 2007, at 3:22 PM, Robin Marks wrote:
> Are there any -10 builders keeping their two place planes or
> planning on building a two place plane while keeping their -10?
> I am considering a 7A or 8A plus the -10 (first flight Q2/2008) but
> I believe the -10 is such a good balance in efficiency that I
> probably can=92t justify another Vans model other than I want it.
> Note acrobatics is nice but not an requirement for me.
>
> Robin
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Second Airplane? |
My Glastar panel is GRT Sport EFIS with backup partial panel and a TT
Pictorial Pilot with a SL30 and G320. I am currently using XM weather in the
Glastar. My 10 (not yet flying) has dual Cheltons as primary and a GRT Sport
for backup and weather and a TT digitrak. I have found that after using the
glass for a while a person's brain just rewires for the functions needed. If
I keep the Glastar, it will be for low and slow and training my children.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 10:42 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Second Airplane?
Noel,
Very funny. My thinking was probably a 7A. I believe you
described my situation pretty well except we look for whales more than cows
on the left coast. I also have a regular 55 minute commute that would work
well for either plane. I am dying to order an 8A because I would probably
like the a war bird paint scheme but the side by side is more practical and
I suspect more comfortable, especially when giving tours.
The matching panels is a good idea in theory but I hope the
7A will cost just a touch more than my -10 panel. I think the small plane
that I NEED will be an all glass VFR bird vs. a hard IFR traveler.
Robin
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Simmons
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 2:40 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Second Airplane?
Robin,
I get a chance to fly several different RV's thought the year. The RV-10 I
built was great for XC, lousy for "checking the Cows". The RV-7 I just
watched fly over the horizon to its new home was great for Checking cows and
could easily do some shorter XC like 1.5 hours. The -7 was easier and
faster to get out of the shop and in the air than the -10. So what I am
saying is you NEED both! Don't need cows there are plenty other people have
those scattered around. If you are going to go somewhere get in the -10 if
you are just going to be with one other person eating pancakes within 30
minutes of the house get in the -7. Interestingly enough you might think
about having the same panel design for both aircraft. That way you will not
get lost bouncing between the two.
Daily time I have spent in each model and comments
RV-6A = 7hours really ready to get out
RV-7 = 6hours just right, did sleep good that
night
RV-8A = 9hours should have gotten out 4 hours
earlier
RV-9A= 13.7hours should have gotten out 9 hours earlier
RV-10 = 10.5hours was ready for diner and could have
flown a few more hours.
Now when Van's get the motor glider up you will NEED one of those too.
Noel Simmons
A&P CFI
Builder of fine aircraft
www.blueskyaviation.net <http://www.blueskyaviation.net/>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Alodine Question |
Michael,
This may be a contributing factor. I store my alodine in gallon jugs and pour
it into the plastic lined shipping crate when I use it. The only agitation that
it would have received would have been from being dumped from one container
to another. Probably not very good.
The other alternative is tht I did mix a new gallon that was added just a few minutes
beforehand. Perhaps I didn't get it throughly mixed up. I guess that's
the downside of going with the powder version and mixing it yourself.
I'm going to have to look for another type of container if I want to continue to
dip parts. Other than the longerons, I don't think may parts in the tail cone
will fit.
Thanks for your comments.....
bob
>
> From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
> Date: 2007/09/10 Mon AM 06:11:25 EST
> To: "rv10-list@matronics.com" <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alodine Question
>
>
> Bob,
>
> I used mine for almost 2 years without ever mixing in new and I occasionally
saw what you are talking about. After about 6 months or so the Alodine mix
didn't seem to be working as well and started to show some of what you are seeing.
Turns out the stuff just needed to be mixed up and kept agitated. Because
I always kept mine in a 30 gal trash can I just threw in a fairly large aquarium
power head with a long hose attached to it. I left it on 24/7 and when
I need to fill a dip tank it also doubled as a way to pump it in to the tank via
the hose. Worked fine from then on.
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 7:07 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alodine Question
>
>
> I used about 5 gallons in my dip tank, which is the shipping crate that the
> spars for the empennage came in. The first time I used it was back in
> March, then in May, and finally today. I've added about a gallon of new
> each time.
>
> I haven't seen rings in the plastic containers I store the alodine in and I
> keep it in a dark corner of the basement. I didn't get any discoloration in
> the pieces that were fully dipped, just the larger pieces that were painted
> with a foam brush.
>
> I'll pass along Eldorado's comments when/if I get them.
>
> Bob
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Williams,
> M.D.
> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 7:15 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Alodine Question
>
> <drfred@suddenlinkmail.com>
>
> Bob;
>
> I have used the same solution as you have and have also had occasional
> staining of areas. I think it is the chromate. It seems to form more in
> the older solutions. I keep the mixed dorado kote in a clean plastic
> bucket. As it gets older a green ring will start to form around the top
> of the bucket. Concurrently, the solution takes longer to react with the
> surface. I can usually rinse most of it off. I have used Sherwin
> Williams primer over the top of those stains and have not seen any
> flaking or change in the coat.
>
> I would be interested in hearing their reply.
>
> Fred Williams
> 40515
>
> Bob Leffler wrote:
> >
> > I've been using Dorado Kote 1 for some time now with good results. All
> > the parts that I put into the dip tank this afternoon came out looking
> > great. In the past, I've used a foam brush to coat the solution on the
> > inside of the skins and other parts too large to fit into the tank. I
> > not had any problems doing this before. However, today on several of
> > the skins, I had some blue-green splotches appear instead of the
> > normal bronze color.
> >
> > Any idea what may have caused this? Should this cause a concern?
> > Should I attempt to remove this or is it ok to prime with AKZO?
> >
> > I've also sent an email off to Eldorado already, so hopefully I'll
> > hear back from them tomorrow.
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2516 (20070909) Information __________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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_____
From: David McNeill [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 7:03 AM
Subject: check this
http://www.modbee.com/local/story/57854.html
Message 8
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| Subject: | Alodine Question |
I went with the powder from ElDorado also. What I ended up doing was getting
a heavy duty 32 gallon Rubbermaid trash bin and put the castors on it so I can
roll it around. I mixed up about 25 gallons and then I just keep it in there
where it's safe from light and evaporation. I did notice before I was keeping
it agitated there was a fair amount of precipitation of stuff out of the solution
on the bottom of the bin when I pumped it into a dip tank.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rvmail@thelefflers.com
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: RE: RV10-List: Alodine Question
Michael,
This may be a contributing factor. I store my alodine in gallon jugs and pour
it into the plastic lined shipping crate when I use it. The only agitation that
it would have received would have been from being dumped from one container
to another. Probably not very good.
The other alternative is tht I did mix a new gallon that was added just a few minutes
beforehand. Perhaps I didn't get it throughly mixed up. I guess that's
the downside of going with the powder version and mixing it yourself.
I'm going to have to look for another type of container if I want to continue to
dip parts. Other than the longerons, I don't think may parts in the tail cone
will fit.
Thanks for your comments.....
bob
>
> From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
> Date: 2007/09/10 Mon AM 06:11:25 EST
> To: "rv10-list@matronics.com" <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alodine Question
>
>
> Bob,
>
> I used mine for almost 2 years without ever mixing in new and I occasionally
saw what you are talking about. After about 6 months or so the Alodine mix
didn't seem to be working as well and started to show some of what you are seeing.
Turns out the stuff just needed to be mixed up and kept agitated. Because
I always kept mine in a 30 gal trash can I just threw in a fairly large aquarium
power head with a long hose attached to it. I left it on 24/7 and when
I need to fill a dip tank it also doubled as a way to pump it in to the tank via
the hose. Worked fine from then on.
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 7:07 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alodine Question
>
>
> I used about 5 gallons in my dip tank, which is the shipping crate that the
> spars for the empennage came in. The first time I used it was back in
> March, then in May, and finally today. I've added about a gallon of new
> each time.
>
> I haven't seen rings in the plastic containers I store the alodine in and I
> keep it in a dark corner of the basement. I didn't get any discoloration in
> the pieces that were fully dipped, just the larger pieces that were painted
> with a foam brush.
>
> I'll pass along Eldorado's comments when/if I get them.
>
> Bob
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Williams,
> M.D.
> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 7:15 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Alodine Question
>
> <drfred@suddenlinkmail.com>
>
> Bob;
>
> I have used the same solution as you have and have also had occasional
> staining of areas. I think it is the chromate. It seems to form more in
> the older solutions. I keep the mixed dorado kote in a clean plastic
> bucket. As it gets older a green ring will start to form around the top
> of the bucket. Concurrently, the solution takes longer to react with the
> surface. I can usually rinse most of it off. I have used Sherwin
> Williams primer over the top of those stains and have not seen any
> flaking or change in the coat.
>
> I would be interested in hearing their reply.
>
> Fred Williams
> 40515
>
> Bob Leffler wrote:
> >
> > I've been using Dorado Kote 1 for some time now with good results. All
> > the parts that I put into the dip tank this afternoon came out looking
> > great. In the past, I've used a foam brush to coat the solution on the
> > inside of the skins and other parts too large to fit into the tank. I
> > not had any problems doing this before. However, today on several of
> > the skins, I had some blue-green splotches appear instead of the
> > normal bronze color.
> >
> > Any idea what may have caused this? Should this cause a concern?
> > Should I attempt to remove this or is it ok to prime with AKZO?
> >
> > I've also sent an email off to Eldorado already, so hopefully I'll
> > hear back from them tomorrow.
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2516 (20070909) Information __________
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Second Airplane? |
Ron,
That is my concern, that I go to all the trouble and
expense of another build and find I don't NEED it or don't fly enough
hours to satisfy both planes. I currently fly about 150 hours/ year
(average since certified in early 2002). Is a 100 RV-10 hours & 50 7A
hours/year reasonable? Maybe, but maybe all RV-10 time would be OK too?
Hummmmm tough call.
Need & Want, it's funny where they fall on the graph of life.
Thanks for your input,
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Kermanj
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 5:14 AM
Subjeconcern,ct: Re: RV10-List: Second Airplane?
Ron,
Robin, I kept my RV6 along with the 10 for a few months. The fuel
prices took a huge leap during the 10 construction and I thought that
the 6 would facilitate "puddle jumping" but I found out that:
My wife would not fly in the 6 any longer considering the additional
passenger comfort the 10 offers.
It was too much work for me to keep both plane serviced, safe and ready
since I gravitated to work on the 10 more often.
It does not cost a whole lot more to operate the 10.
So after a few months, I sold my 6.
Do not archive.
On Sep 9, 2007, at 3:22 PM, Robin Marks wrote:
Are there any -10 builders keeping their two place planes or planning on
building a two place plane while keeping their -10?
I am considering a 7A or 8A plus the -10 (first flight Q2/2008) but I
believe the -10 is such a good balance in efficiency that I probably
can't justify another Vans model other than I want it. Note acrobatics
is nice but not an requirement for me.
Robin
Do Not Archive
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 10
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If you play russian roulette long enough-- you will lose.
From: dlm46007@cox.netTo: rv10-list@matronics.comSubject: RV10-List: FW: ch
eck thisDate: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 07:04:55 -0700
From: David McNeill [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net] Sent: Monday, September 10, 2
007 7:03 AMTo: 'David McNeill'Subject: check this
http://www.modbee.com/local/story/57854.html
Message 11
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| Subject: | Lights, Engine, & FF Kit Q's |
Gary:
What are the differences he's telling you that account for several thousand dollars
in savings? What parts that are required at o'h is he using, what is he
leaving out? What parts are "experimental only?" If you're talking about cases
and a crankshaft that are experimental only, that could mean that they are not
in airworthy condition (i.e., outside of serviceable limits.) This would be
something akin to what airboat builders do as we've discussed on this list before.
You can put anything you want to in your airplane, but make sure that you know
what you're getting and that you're perfectly comfortable putting your family
behind that engine.
Rhonda
2. I am starting to work with my local engine shop and one question that came up
early in the conversation was experimental or certified? I asked him why he
asked and he explained the differences in the engine that he was talking about
and I can live with them. The pro is saving several thousand $ but he said that
some people want certified for insurance reasons. My question is that when
you went for insurance on your 10, did they ask about the engine whether it
was certified or not and if so what were the differences in premiums and insurability?
Was there a difference?
[Jesse Saint] A certified engine will save you 15 hours on the Phase 1 flight testing
period, 25 instead of 40 hours, assuming that you keep everything certified
including the prop. Beyond that, you are getting the exact same engine if
you stick with the O-540 or IO-540. If you want to go with a used or overhauled
engine, then you will most likely be certified, unless you make some changes
that will make it experimental, like electronic ignition, experimental fuel
injection system, etc. I have not heard of any insurance rate differences.
In fact, I haven't even heard any reports of the insurance company asking, possibly
not even on the alternative engines, but I am just going from personal
experience here, not having talked to everybody about their experience.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Second Airplane? |
Needs and wants. Do any of us really NEED an RV-10, or any airplane, for
that matter? Some justify the plane as an efficient means to visit the
grandparents or grandkids, who live in a place that is difficult and
expensive to get to via public transportation. Some use planes for short
business trips. But, by in large, most of us don't need these planes, other
than to satisfy some inner need to be a pilot and experience the joy of
flight. I believe this, and the relative low cost and ability to work on
them, is what has made the RV's so amazingly popular. They are a joy to
fly. Maybe not so practical or comfortable, but a joy to fly. Then along
comes the RV-10. More practical, and still has a flying quality that makes
it fun. Plus, the pride of building it, working on it, outfitting it,
painting it your own design, yadda yadda yadda.
There's an RV-10 builder in Oregon, not far from me, who currently owns a
Glastar and just rebuilt a Super Cub. He's selling the Glastar and keeping
the Cub. Big tundra tires on it. Beautiful plane. He loves flying into
the back woods and landing on river banks to do some camping and fishing.
He was doing this with the Glastar, but it just couldn't match what his
friends were able to do with their Cubs and Maules. He also likes to get up
and go to visit family and friends and so on. If he has a Super Cub, forget
speed. Forget comfort for the back seater (he usually flies with his dog in
back in the Cub. He only has a sling seat back there, anyway.) So, since
his absolute passion is flying, he felt the need for two planes to match his
two missions. Besides, he has the money to do it.
You don't need any of these planes, unless that need stems from passion. Of
course any addiction can be described the same way.
The RV-10 is a good, all around compromise. Fast, carries a bunch, but is
still a lot better handling than a Cessna 206, and carries more than a
Bonanza 35 or 33. You built it and that is satisfying. You work on it, so
that lessens ownership cost and is rewarding in its own right. But you
can't land it on real short or rough airstrips, let alone sand bars. It's a
little more expensive than a two seat RV for that $100 breakfast, but just
how much more it costs is rather silly to think about when you've already
ploughed over $100,000 into it. So that ham and eggs cost another $10.
What's the big deal? Are you worried that you won't just go flying some
evening because of the largeness of it or the shear joy of zooming through
the ether? Well, that's a good point. I hear that strapping on an RV-3 is
pretty amazing if you want to just go zoom.
Naa, best to think about the mission and not the cost of operations. You
want to play fighter pilot, then build a two seater that handles as if you
and it are neurologically linked. You want to land on sand bars, get a Cub
or Glastar. You want to take friends and family in comfort to the Reno Air
Races, finish the 10. You want to do a combination? Then you've got some
real good options in front of you, and you'll soon be saying to your buds
that you can never have too many airplanes!
No matter the road, you have some real good fun in store.
John J
328.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:03 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Second Airplane?
Ron,
That is my concern, that I go to all the trouble and expense
of another build and find I don't NEED it or don't fly enough hours to
satisfy both planes. I currently fly about 150 hours/ year (average since
certified in early 2002). Is a 100 RV-10 hours & 50 7A hours/year
reasonable? Maybe, but maybe all RV-10 time would be OK too? Hummmmm tough
call.
Need & Want, it's funny where they fall on the graph of life.
Thanks for your input,
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Kermanj
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 5:14 AM
Subjeconcern,ct: Re: RV10-List: Second Airplane?
Ron,
Robin, I kept my RV6 along with the 10 for a few months. The fuel prices
took a huge leap during the 10 construction and I thought that the 6 would
facilitate "puddle jumping" but I found out that:
My wife would not fly in the 6 any longer considering the additional
passenger comfort the 10 offers.
It was too much work for me to keep both plane serviced, safe and ready
since I gravitated to work on the 10 more often.
It does not cost a whole lot more to operate the 10.
So after a few months, I sold my 6.
Do not archive.
On Sep 9, 2007, at 3:22 PM, Robin Marks wrote:
Are there any -10 builders keeping their two place planes or planning on
building a two place plane while keeping their -10?
I am considering a 7A or 8A plus the -10 (first flight Q2/2008) but I
believe the -10 is such a good balance in efficiency that I probably can't
justify another Vans model other than I want it. Note acrobatics is nice but
not an requirement for me.
Robin
Do Not Archive
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | Second Airplane? |
I always figured I need 4 airplanes:
One for low and slow fun flying
One for aerobatics
One for travel
One seaplane
Currently I have 2 planes that fill 3 of those needs:
Pietenpol Air Camper for low and slow (can't beat an open cockpit with a
29 mph stall speed)
RV4 (good for travel as long as you're not carrying much luggage, and
reasonably good for aerobatics)
I'll sell the RV4 when I finish the -10. By then maybe my need for
aerobatics will have lessened. Maybe I'll put the -10 on floats...
Jack Phillips
#40610
Finished the Tail kit, waiting through Financial Hold to order the QB
wings and fuselage
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 12:09 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Second Airplane?
Needs and wants. Do any of us really NEED an RV-10, or any airplane,
for that matter? Some justify the plane as an efficient means to visit
the grandparents or grandkids, who live in a place that is difficult and
expensive to get to via public transportation. Some use planes for
short business trips. But, by in large, most of us don't need these
planes, other than to satisfy some inner need to be a pilot and
experience the joy of flight. I believe this, and the relative low cost
and ability to work on them, is what has made the RV's so amazingly
popular. They are a joy to fly. Maybe not so practical or comfortable,
but a joy to fly. Then along comes the RV-10. More practical, and
still has a flying quality that makes it fun. Plus, the pride of
building it, working on it, outfitting it, painting it your own design,
yadda yadda yadda.
There's an RV-10 builder in Oregon, not far from me, who currently owns
a Glastar and just rebuilt a Super Cub. He's selling the Glastar and
keeping the Cub. Big tundra tires on it. Beautiful plane. He loves
flying into the back woods and landing on river banks to do some camping
and fishing. He was doing this with the Glastar, but it just couldn't
match what his friends were able to do with their Cubs and Maules. He
also likes to get up and go to visit family and friends and so on. If
he has a Super Cub, forget speed. Forget comfort for the back seater
(he usually flies with his dog in back in the Cub. He only has a sling
seat back there, anyway.) So, since his absolute passion is flying, he
felt the need for two planes to match his two missions. Besides, he has
the money to do it.
You don't need any of these planes, unless that need stems from passion.
Of course any addiction can be described the same way.
The RV-10 is a good, all around compromise. Fast, carries a bunch, but
is still a lot better handling than a Cessna 206, and carries more than
a Bonanza 35 or 33. You built it and that is satisfying. You work on
it, so that lessens ownership cost and is rewarding in its own right.
But you can't land it on real short or rough airstrips, let alone sand
bars. It's a little more expensive than a two seat RV for that $100
breakfast, but just how much more it costs is rather silly to think
about when you've already ploughed over $100,000 into it. So that ham
and eggs cost another $10. What's the big deal? Are you worried that
you won't just go flying some evening because of the largeness of it or
the shear joy of zooming through the ether? Well, that's a good point.
I hear that strapping on an RV-3 is pretty amazing if you want to just
go zoom.
Naa, best to think about the mission and not the cost of operations.
You want to play fighter pilot, then build a two seater that handles as
if you and it are neurologically linked. You want to land on sand bars,
get a Cub or Glastar. You want to take friends and family in comfort to
the Reno Air Races, finish the 10. You want to do a combination? Then
you've got some real good options in front of you, and you'll soon be
saying to your buds that you can never have too many airplanes!
No matter the road, you have some real good fun in store.
John J
328.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:03 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Second Airplane?
Ron,
That is my concern, that I go to all the trouble and
expense of another build and find I don't NEED it or don't fly enough
hours to satisfy both planes. I currently fly about 150 hours/ year
(average since certified in early 2002). Is a 100 RV-10 hours & 50 7A
hours/year reasonable? Maybe, but maybe all RV-10 time would be OK too?
Hummmmm tough call.
Need & Want, it's funny where they fall on the graph of life.
Thanks for your input,
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Kermanj
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 5:14 AM
Subjeconcern,ct: Re: RV10-List: Second Airplane?
Ron,
Robin, I kept my RV6 along with the 10 for a few months. The fuel
prices took a huge leap during the 10 construction and I thought that
the 6 would facilitate "puddle jumping" but I found out that:
My wife would not fly in the 6 any longer considering the additional
passenger comfort the 10 offers.
It was too much work for me to keep both plane serviced, safe and ready
since I gravitated to work on the 10 more often.
It does not cost a whole lot more to operate the 10.
So after a few months, I sold my 6.
Do not archive.
On Sep 9, 2007, at 3:22 PM, Robin Marks wrote:
Are there any -10 builders keeping their two place planes or planning on
building a two place plane while keeping their -10?
I am considering a 7A or 8A plus the -10 (first flight Q2/2008) but I
believe the -10 is such a good balance in efficiency that I probably
can't justify another Vans model other than I want it. Note acrobatics
is nice but not an requirement for me.
Robin
Do Not Archive
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p
rohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
Message 14
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I think that's what polite company calls "clue-impaired".
do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 7:05 AM
Subject: RV10-List: FW: check this
_____
From: David McNeill [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 7:03 AM
Subject: check this
http://www.modbee.com/local/story/57854.html
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Lights, Engine, & FF Kit Q's |
Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com wrote:
> Gary:
>
> What are the differences he's telling you that account for several thousand dollars
in savings? What parts that are required at o'h is he using, what is he
leaving out? What parts are "experimental only?" If you're talking about cases
and a crankshaft that are experimental only, that could mean that they are
not in airworthy condition (i.e., outside of serviceable limits.) This would
be something akin to what airboat builders do as we've discussed on this list
before.
>
> Rhonda
>
The considerations are with the case. A case could have the flange out by a couple
thousandths and when trued up the flange mating thickness might not meet
Lyc thickness tolerances. Depending on where it is located, it could be very
safe but not meeting tolerances. The builder is a real straight shooter and we
will talk out each step of the whole process.
I need to know all the ramifications and the insurance one was the only variable
of many under consideration that I didn't have any experience with.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
Fuselage SB
(N410GB reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133766#133766
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Lights, Engine, & FF Kit Q's |
Yes, thin cases do make their way on to experimental only engines from
some builders. Best of luck in your build!
Rhonda
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of orchidman
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 11:55 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Lights, Engine, & FF Kit Q's
Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com wrote:
> Gary:
>
> What are the differences he's telling you that account for several
thousand dollars in savings? What parts that are required at o'h is he
using, what is he leaving out? What parts are "experimental only?" If
you're talking about cases and a crankshaft that are experimental only,
that could mean that they are not in airworthy condition (i.e., outside
of serviceable limits.) This would be something akin to what airboat
builders do as we've discussed on this list before.
>
> Rhonda
>
The considerations are with the case. A case could have the flange out
by a couple thousandths and when trued up the flange mating thickness
might not meet Lyc thickness tolerances. Depending on where it is
located, it could be very safe but not meeting tolerances. The builder
is a real straight shooter and we will talk out each step of the whole
process.
I need to know all the ramifications and the insurance one was the only
variable of many under consideration that I didn't have any experience
with.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
Fuselage SB
(N410GB reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133766#133766
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Lights, Engine, & FF Kit Q's |
What is missed for many builders choosing non-TCDS engines, is that
there are several other issues to address. You glanced off one which is
airboat motors being sold, how about ground power units being sold and
former certificated units which did not receive the required compliance
with AD notes to remain certification. There are lots of things to be
cautious of. 25 vs. 40 hours of fly off is an overly simplistic number
which masks the risks.
The most important, know your builder and understand what you are
buying. We are dealing with a prop strike last September on another
aircraft. First there was the obvious hub inspection, the replacement
of all the antenna array under the fuselage that was wiped off, the
damage to the airframe, then the replacement of the three blades of MT
propellers, now it turns out that just looking at the oil was neither
wise nor compliant. It is amazing how expensive copper glitter can be
once it is found in the oil. And no, I was not the pilot. Nor was I
the mechanic that said go ahead and fly it "the oil is clean".
We could have had a dual screen Chelton.
Even one of us posted about a cracked sump on his new certificated
Lycoming from VANS. Like that credit card commercial... "What is your
warranty in your wallet?
Choose wisely.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rhonda Bewley
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 10:13 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Lights, Engine, & FF Kit Q's
Yes, thin cases do make their way on to experimental only engines from
some builders. Best of luck in your build!
Rhonda
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of orchidman
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 11:55 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Lights, Engine, & FF Kit Q's
Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com wrote:
> Gary:
>
> What are the differences he's telling you that account for several
thousand dollars in savings? What parts that are required at o'h is he
using, what is he leaving out? What parts are "experimental only?" If
you're talking about cases and a crankshaft that are experimental only,
that could mean that they are not in airworthy condition (i.e., outside
of serviceable limits.) This would be something akin to what airboat
builders do as we've discussed on this list before.
>
> Rhonda
>
The considerations are with the case. A case could have the flange out
by a couple thousandths and when trued up the flange mating thickness
might not meet Lyc thickness tolerances. Depending on where it is
located, it could be very safe but not meeting tolerances. The builder
is a real straight shooter and we will talk out each step of the whole
process.
I need to know all the ramifications and the insurance one was the only
variable of many under consideration that I didn't have any experience
with.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
Fuselage SB
(N410GB reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133766#133766
Message 18
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After thinking some more about the "green/blue precipitate" I googled
alodine and started looking down the list. I recommend using a
respirator when mixing the powder. Inhaled in humans it is reported to
be carcinogenic.
I think the trash can idea on wheels is a good one.
Fred Williams, MD.
Message 19
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What have others done when putting in there fuel senders. Are people using
the rubber supplied gasket in addition to the proseal or just using the
proseal?
Thanks,
John G. #409, building again
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Rivethead Aero, are you out there? |
I also have a set of door latches on order since before Oshkosh. My credit
card was charged so I think they got the order. On the bright side they sti
ll have an answering machine and the phone has not been disconnected. My gu
ess is they have been flood with orders since Oshkosh and are trying to get
unburied.
Vern Smith
do not archive> From: VHMUM@bigpond.com> To: rv10-list@matronics.com> Subje
ct: Re: RV10-List: Re: Rivethead Aero, are you out there?> Date: Sun, 9 Sep
cGough" <VHMUM@bigpond.com>> > Does anyone have a direct contact with this
mob that could have a chat to > see what is going on as it has been 2 month
s I am happy to send the reciept > from Paypal.> They dont answer there pho
ne or emails.> > If not I will take it the money is lost and I will just pu
====> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Kick back and relax with hot games and cool activities at the Messenger Caf
=E9.
http://www.cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_SeptWLtagline
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel senders |
Cork gaskets work better.The rubber ones distorted after a few hours and I replaced
them with cork.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
Sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:52 am
Subject: RV10-List: Fuel senders
?
What have others done when putting in there fuel senders. Are people using the
rubber supplied gasket in addition to the proseal or just using the proseal??
?
Thanks,?
?
John G. #409, building again?
?
?
?
?
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel senders |
Throw out the gasket and just use sealant.....and a dab of it under each
screw head as well. As you tighten, it will squidge out and make a perfect
gasket.
Cheers....
Evan
>
> What have others done when putting in there fuel senders. Are people using
> the rubber supplied gasket in addition to the proseal or just using the
> proseal?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John G. #409, building again
>
>
---------------------------------------------
This message was sent using SnowCrest WebMail.
http://www.snowcrest.net
Message 23
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| Subject: | Side mounting Odyssey PC925 battery |
Does anyone have pictures of their hold-down system for mounting a Odyssey
PC 925 on its side? I've looked at Tim's and Deems' sites, but they both mo
unted the battery top side up. My understanding is by side mounting it the
original tray wouldn't need to be cut up. Any input would be helpful.
Thanks,
Vern Smith (#324)
_________________________________________________________________
Can you find the hidden words?- Take a break and play Seekadoo!
http://club.live.com/seekadoo.aspx?icid=seek_wlmailtextlink
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Side mounting Odyssey PC925 battery |
Yes thats correct it fits side ways without any modification
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Vernon Smith
To: RV 10 list
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 6:15 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Side mounting Odyssey PC925 battery
Does anyone have pictures of their hold-down system for mounting a
Odyssey PC 925 on its side? I've looked at Tim's and Deems' sites, but
they both mounted the battery top side up. My understanding is by side
mounting it the original tray wouldn't need to be cut up. Any input
would be helpful.
Thanks,
Vern Smith (#324)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Can you find the hidden words? Take a break and play Seekadoo! Play
now!
Message 25
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| Subject: | Second Airplane? |
Robin,
I've built several airplanes, the first 3 were 2 seaters of various
missions before building my -10. The 10 is a fantastic cross country
machine and as everyone has indicated is by far the most comfortable of all
the Van's airplanes for the passenger (my last airplane was a RV-6). I too
am considering another airplane in the future. Right now I get all the acro
I need courtesy of the USAF, but that will come to an end in just over a
year so I am planning on getting an aerobatic biplane (my second project was
a Skybolt and I really miss it). Since you said aerobatics were not really
a priority I would suggest the -10 would suit your needs pretty well and the
expense of maintenance and insurance alone would far outweigh any savings in
fuel while flying a 7. So, my 2 cents are if you have a significantly
different desire - amphib, acro, low and slow, etc then a second airplane
would be great. Otherwise I'd stick with the 10 until you feel it isn't
meeting your needs/wants.
Marcus
40286
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 10:03 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Second Airplane?
Ron,
That is my concern, that I go to all the trouble and expense
of another build and find I don't NEED it or don't fly enough hours to
satisfy both planes. I currently fly about 150 hours/ year (average since
certified in early 2002). Is a 100 RV-10 hours & 50 7A hours/year
reasonable? Maybe, but maybe all RV-10 time would be OK too? Hummmmm tough
call.
Need & Want, it's funny where they fall on the graph of life.
Thanks for your input,
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Kermanj
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 5:14 AM
Subjeconcern,ct: Re: RV10-List: Second Airplane?
Ron,
Robin, I kept my RV6 along with the 10 for a few months. The fuel prices
took a huge leap during the 10 construction and I thought that the 6 would
facilitate "puddle jumping" but I found out that:
My wife would not fly in the 6 any longer considering the additional
passenger comfort the 10 offers.
It was too much work for me to keep both plane serviced, safe and ready
since I gravitated to work on the 10 more often.
It does not cost a whole lot more to operate the 10.
So after a few months, I sold my 6.
Do not archive.
On Sep 9, 2007, at 3:22 PM, Robin Marks wrote:
Are there any -10 builders keeping their two place planes or planning on
building a two place plane while keeping their -10?
I am considering a 7A or 8A plus the -10 (first flight Q2/2008) but I
believe the -10 is such a good balance in efficiency that I probably can't
justify another Vans model other than I want it. Note acrobatics is nice but
not an requirement for me.
Robin
Do Not Archive
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| Subject: | Nose Wheel Torque |
Vans has a Nose Wheel Torque posting up on the website... put up on
9/6. It seems to me that it addresses a problem Tim Olson brought up
a while back relative to wear on the forks. Have I got this right?
What say you Tim?
Jeff Carpenter
40304
N410CF (reserved)
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