Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:18 AM - more ELTs ()
2. 01:53 AM - Re: Re: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT. (Werner Schneider)
3. 06:19 AM - Bad battery/bad experience (Wayne Edgerton)
4. 06:58 AM - Re: Re: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT. (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
5. 07:08 AM - Re: Bad battery/bad experience (Mark Ritter)
6. 07:21 AM - Re: Re: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT. (GRANSCOTT@aol.com)
7. 07:26 AM - Re: Re: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT. (Shawn Moon)
8. 07:35 AM - Re: Bad battery/bad experience (pascal)
9. 08:06 AM - Re: Re: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT. (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
10. 08:15 AM - Re: Bad battery/bad experience (Scott Schmidt)
11. 08:30 AM - Re: Bad battery/bad experience ()
12. 08:46 AM - Re: Re: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT. (Tim Olson)
13. 08:53 AM - Re: Bad battery/bad experience (Tim Olson)
14. 09:21 AM - Used Wing Kit ()
15. 09:24 AM - Re: Bad battery/bad experience (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
16. 09:33 AM - Re: Used Wing Kit ()
17. 09:41 AM - Re: Bad battery/bad experience (Bobby J. Hughes)
18. 10:06 AM - Re: Bad battery/bad experience (John W. Cox)
19. 11:23 AM - Free RV-10 W&B being offered (Tom Meeker)
20. 11:41 AM - Re: Bad battery/bad experience (James Hein)
21. 01:08 PM - glare shield paint (jayb)
22. 02:39 PM - Re: glare shield paint (Rene Felker)
23. 04:34 PM - Re: glare shield paint (bcondrey)
24. 08:46 PM - Re: Re: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT. (Kelly McMullen)
25. 09:34 PM - Re: WSI AV-300 delivered (Tim Olson)
Message 1
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In related news, Pointer supposedly is working on a 406 MHz ELT also,
but they've been saying that for over a year with nothing seen yet.
TDT
Tim Dawson-Townsend
Aurora Flight Sciences
tdt@aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT. |
Michael,
did you see their price? Christen sells one for close to 2300$ wonder
what the difference to the ME406 is as it seems currently the cheapest
on the market.
br Werner
Michael Wellenzohn wrote:
>
> There was a new ELT presented at Oshkosh.
>
> http://en.martec.fr/page/p-191/art_id-/
>
> They claim to be better than the competition.
>
> Michael
>
> www.wellenzohn.net (just painted the interior)
>
> --------
> RV-10 builder (wings)
> #511
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134341#134341
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Bad battery/bad experience |
I thought I would pass along to you an experience I've had with Tex-Air
Parts in Fort Worth on a Concorde battery I purchased from them. At the
beginning of the year I
purchase a Concorde RG25CX for my plane from Tex-Air but didn't use it
until May when I went to start the plane. The battery was DOA and I
returned it for exchange. They wouldn't exchange it outright but rather
I had to buy a new one and they said they would process the credit and
send it to me. As of today I still haven't received the credit. Below is
an e-mail I sent them on Aug 25th and I'm still waiting for the refund.
I guess what's irritating me is what appears to be their unwillingness
to refund my money for a bad battery they sold me. I'm just posting this
to give others heads up on where you purchase your items and be sure
they will stand behind what they sell.
Here is the e-mail I sent them on Aug 25th.
Also I've noticed that when starting the plane with this battery I get
an initial hesitation, like it's having difficulty turning the engine
over but when I try the second time it turns over fine. In hindsight I
might look at the Odyssey PC925 rather than the Concorde.
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
a little pissed off at Tex-Air
_________________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________
I WILL FWD YOUR EMAIL TO GENE. HE IS THE ONE THAT KNOWS ABOUT YOUR
BATTERY. SORRY YOU ARE HAVING SO MUCH TROUBLE.
THANKS,
DONNA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
From: Wayne Edgerton [mailto:wayne.e@grandecom.net]
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 6:20 AM
Subject: Return refund
To return credit manager,
On 5/18/07 I returned a Concorde battery RG25CX, see attachment. I
purchased the battery from your company for the RV10 that I was
building. When I was ready to start my engine on the RV10 it would not
start it. The battery was obviously defective somehow right out of the
box. So I returned the battery to your store in Fort Worth and purchased
another one, which has worked fine. I was told at the time that I would
have to pay for the new battery and then would receive credit for the
returned battery when it was tested.
After sometime I called into your FW store and asked about the progress
of the credit. I was told that there would be a charge of something like
$90 to test the battery and I think I had to pay the shipping charge
back to the supplier to have it tested. This obviously irritated me and
I told the person why don't I just write this experience off to a
company with a really bad return policy, but that I would be making a
posting to the RV blog about my experience with the battery and your
company. I was told to wait and lets see what can be done.
I did wait and nothing happened so I called back in and was told someone
in the back had to test it and they had been really busy. I have called
in on multiple occasion inquiring on the progress, probably 5 or 6
times, and have been told we're getting close. Let me explain that the
money for me is not the issue. The issue is I bought a battery from your
company that apparently was defective out of the box and now I'm getting
a complete run around on receiving back credit for it. Boy if you think
this type of customer service creates customer loyalty, you must have
attended the wrong business school.
I believe I've been really patient on this but the patience issue has
just about run it's coarse. I thought it only fair to inform you that if
something isn't forthcoming on this issue very soon my intentions are to
write a letter to the Better Business Bureau regarding your business
practices on this type of issue. I intend to also post this same
complaint and experience on the RV builders blog.
Again trust me this is not about the monies, hell if I'm building a
$250,000 airplane this is small potatoes, but rather that you appear to
be jerking me around on a return that should have been an exchange at
the time of the return. I was told that it's the battery company that is
the problem. Then I would suggest that you drop that line of product
from your inventory if you are unable to support it. If you went to a
department store and bought an item and then because it was defective
took it back, would you accept the explanation that I really can't give
you credit until the supplier oks it? I think not. If you take on a
product and sell it you have to take responsibility with the customer
for that product and you deal with the supplier or at least that's how I
always ran my business. I never had a vendor that had that much control
over me, it was actually the opposite. If they didn't want to support
their product they were gone.
Understand this is not a threat but rather I'm just letting you know in
advance what my intentions are so you are not surprised when it occurs.
Wayne Edgerton
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT. |
On another note, AOPA plans to fight any mandatory upgrades to 406 because of the
large price difference.....
http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2007/070913elt.html
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Werner Schneider
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 3:52 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT.
Michael,
did you see their price? Christen sells one for close to 2300$ wonder
what the difference to the ME406 is as it seems currently the cheapest
on the market.
br Werner
Michael Wellenzohn wrote:
>
> There was a new ELT presented at Oshkosh.
>
> http://en.martec.fr/page/p-191/art_id-/
>
> They claim to be better than the competition.
>
> Michael
>
> www.wellenzohn.net (just painted the interior)
>
> --------
> RV-10 builder (wings)
> #511
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134341#134341
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Bad battery/bad experience |
Wayne,
I'm using two Odyssey 680PC's and they are working great. They are going o
n two years of use. Are you going to LOE?
Mark
RV-10/N410MR<html><div></div>
From: wayne.e@grandecom.netTo: rv10-list@matronics.comSubject: RV10-List: B
ad battery/bad experienceDate: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 08:18:45 -0500
I thought I would pass along to you an experience I've had with Tex-Air Par
ts in Fort Worth on a Concorde battery I purchased from them. At the beginn
ing of the year I
purchase a Concorde RG25CX for my plane from Tex-Air but didn't use it unti
l May when I went to start the plane. The battery was DOA and I returned it
for exchange. They wouldn't exchange it outright but rather I had to buy a
new one and they said they would process the credit and send it to me. As
of today I still haven't received the credit. Below is an e-mail I sent the
m on Aug 25th and I'm still waiting for the refund.
I guess what's irritating me is what appears to be their unwillingness to r
efund my money for a bad battery they sold me. I'm just posting this to giv
e others heads up on where you purchase your items and be sure they will st
and behind what they sell.
Here is the e-mail I sent them on Aug 25th.
Also I've noticed that when starting the plane with this battery I get an i
nitial hesitation, like it's having difficulty turning the engine over but
when I try the second time it turns over fine. In hindsight I might look at
the Odyssey PC925 rather than the Concorde.
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
a little pissed off at Tex-Air
___________________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________
I WILL FWD YOUR EMAIL TO GENE. HE IS THE ONE THAT KNOWS ABOUT YOUR BATTE
RY. SORRY YOU ARE HAVING SO MUCH TROUBLE.
THANKS,
DONNA
From: Wayne Edgerton [mailto:wayne.e@grandecom.net] Sent: Saturday, August
25, 2007 6:20 AMTo: texair@texair.comSubject: Return refund
To return credit manager,
On 5/18/07 I returned a Concorde battery RG25CX, see attachment. I purchase
d the battery from your company for the RV10 that I was building. When I wa
s ready to start my engine on the RV10 it would not start it. The battery w
as obviously defective somehow right out of the box. So I returned the batt
ery to your store in Fort Worth and purchased another one, which has worked
fine. I was told at the time that I would have to pay for the new battery
and then would receive credit for the returned battery when it was tested.
After sometime I called into your FW store and asked about the progress of
the credit. I was told that there would be a charge of something like $90 t
o test the battery and I think I had to pay the shipping charge back to the
supplier to have it tested. This obviously irritated me and I told the per
son why don't I just write this experience off to a company with a really b
ad return policy, but that I would be making a posting to the RV blog about
my experience with the battery and your company. I was told to wait and le
ts see what can be done.
I did wait and nothing happened so I called back in and was told someone in
the back had to test it and they had been really busy. I have called in on
multiple occasion inquiring on the progress, probably 5 or 6 times, and ha
ve been told we're getting close. Let me explain that the money for me is n
ot the issue. The issue is I bought a battery from your company that appare
ntly was defective out of the box and now I'm getting a complete run around
on receiving back credit for it. Boy if you think this type of customer se
rvice creates customer loyalty, you must have attended the wrong business s
chool.
I believe I've been really patient on this but the patience issue has just
about run it's coarse. I thought it only fair to inform you that if somethi
ng isn't forthcoming on this issue very soon my intentions are to write a l
etter to the Better Business Bureau regarding your business practices on th
is type of issue. I intend to also post this same complaint and experience
on the RV builders blog.
Again trust me this is not about the monies, hell if I'm building a $250,00
0 airplane this is small potatoes, but rather that you appear to be jerking
me around on a return that should have been an exchange at the time of the
return. I was told that it's the battery company that is the problem. Then
I would suggest that you drop that line of product from your inventory if
you are unable to support it. If you went to a department store and bought
an item and then because it was defective took it back, would you accept th
e explanation that I really can't give you credit until the supplier oks it
? I think not. If you take on a product and sell it you have to take respon
sibility with the customer for that product and you deal with the supplier
or at least that's how I always ran my business. I never had a vendor that
had that much control over me, it was actually the opposite. If they didn't
want to support their product they were gone.
Understand this is not a threat but rather I'm just letting you know in adv
ance what my intentions are so you are not surprised when it occurs.
Wayne Edgerton
_________________________________________________________________
Capture your memories in an online journal!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT. |
Michael...I know AOPA is fighting this with good cause for us...but also be
aware that the USAF informed the CAP folks that they will no be accepting the
old 121.5 code for SAR's in the future. The will only be responding to the 406
series for SAR's...I don't know how they are going to handle a physical
report for an over due aircraft, though.
When you read on these ELT's you'd believe they are all fail safe which they
are not. CAP still finds down aircraft via search in air and on ground
besides electronic methods...but it's not so immediate, though.
Patrick
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT. |
It seems to me that they are fighting the wrong battle. What they should
be doing is working on ways to get more companies to manufacture them so th
ere is more competition and (hopefully) lower prices. I will admit, though
, that it seems that in aerospace the first company to market sets the pric
e and then everyone else just seems to follow that pricing. It seems to me
that the 406 is a much better solution yet things like this only prove to
impede the acceptance of the newer standards.=0A =0A--Shawn=0A40366 - Wings
=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: RV Builder (Michael Sausen) <rvbu
ilder@sausen.net>=0ATo: "rv10-list@matronics.com" <rv10-list@matronics.com>
=0ASent: Friday, September 14, 2007 8:56:53 AM=0ASubject: RE: RV10-List: Re
: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT.=0A=0A--> RV10-List message po
sted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>=0A=0AOn anoth
er note, AOPA plans to fight any mandatory upgrades to 406 because of the l
arge price difference.....=0A=0Ahttp://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2007
/070913elt.html=0A=0AMichael=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-
rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
] On Behalf Of Werner Schneider=0ASent: Friday, September 14, 2007 3:52 AM
=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Is AmeriKing g
Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>=0A=0AMichael,=0Adid you see their price? Chris
ten sells one for close to 2300$ wonder=0Awhat the difference to the ME406
is as it seems currently the cheapest=0Aon the market.=0A=0Abr Werner=0A=0A
lenzohn" <rv-10@wellenzohn.net>=0A>=0A> There was a new ELT presented at Os
hkosh.=0A>=0A> http://en.martec.fr/page/p-191/art_id-/=0A>=0A> They claim t
o be better than the competition.=0A>=0A> Michael=0A>=0A> www.wellenzohn.ne
t (just painted the interior)=0A>=0A> --------=0A> RV-10 builder (wings)
=0A> #511=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> Read this topic online here:=0A>=0A> http://f
orums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134341#134341=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>
=============0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A_______________________________________________________________________
_____________=0ABoardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now
oo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Bad battery/bad experience |
Looks like you were more patient than I. BBB needs to be advised. This
will speak louder for others who look at the Tex-Air company and see
that people have complained than anything else.
On a different perspective and this is related to tools. I had a a
countersink that broke shortly after using it for the empennage and I
wrote Brown tools asking if it was normal. Michael Brown himself took
the e-mail, expressed concern, asked for a picture with the writing so
he could track the source, than immediately shipped out 2 replacement
countersinks (different source). There are great support teams out there
and I'm sure using this forum and Tim's site we can steer those behind
us in the right direction. Tim has mentioned SteinAir as a resource
others other companies.
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne Edgerton
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 6:18 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Bad battery/bad experience
I thought I would pass along to you an experience I've had with
Tex-Air Parts in Fort Worth on a Concorde battery I purchased from them.
At the beginning of the year I
purchase a Concorde RG25CX for my plane from Tex-Air but didn't use it
until May when I went to start the plane. The battery was DOA and I
returned it for exchange. They wouldn't exchange it outright but rather
I had to buy a new one and they said they would process the credit and
send it to me. As of today I still haven't received the credit. Below is
an e-mail I sent them on Aug 25th and I'm still waiting for the refund.
I guess what's irritating me is what appears to be their unwillingness
to refund my money for a bad battery they sold me. I'm just posting this
to give others heads up on where you purchase your items and be sure
they will stand behind what they sell.
Here is the e-mail I sent them on Aug 25th.
Also I've noticed that when starting the plane with this battery I get
an initial hesitation, like it's having difficulty turning the engine
over but when I try the second time it turns over fine. In hindsight I
might look at the Odyssey PC925 rather than the Concorde.
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
a little pissed off at Tex-Air
_________________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________
I WILL FWD YOUR EMAIL TO GENE. HE IS THE ONE THAT KNOWS ABOUT YOUR
BATTERY. SORRY YOU ARE HAVING SO MUCH TROUBLE.
THANKS,
DONNA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: Wayne Edgerton [mailto:wayne.e@grandecom.net]
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 6:20 AM
To: texair@texair.com
Subject: Return refund
To return credit manager,
On 5/18/07 I returned a Concorde battery RG25CX, see attachment. I
purchased the battery from your company for the RV10 that I was
building. When I was ready to start my engine on the RV10 it would not
start it. The battery was obviously defective somehow right out of the
box. So I returned the battery to your store in Fort Worth and purchased
another one, which has worked fine. I was told at the time that I would
have to pay for the new battery and then would receive credit for the
returned battery when it was tested.
After sometime I called into your FW store and asked about the
progress of the credit. I was told that there would be a charge of
something like $90 to test the battery and I think I had to pay the
shipping charge back to the supplier to have it tested. This obviously
irritated me and I told the person why don't I just write this
experience off to a company with a really bad return policy, but that I
would be making a posting to the RV blog about my experience with the
battery and your company. I was told to wait and lets see what can be
done.
I did wait and nothing happened so I called back in and was told
someone in the back had to test it and they had been really busy. I have
called in on multiple occasion inquiring on the progress, probably 5 or
6 times, and have been told we're getting close. Let me explain that the
money for me is not the issue. The issue is I bought a battery from your
company that apparently was defective out of the box and now I'm getting
a complete run around on receiving back credit for it. Boy if you think
this type of customer service creates customer loyalty, you must have
attended the wrong business school.
I believe I've been really patient on this but the patience issue has
just about run it's coarse. I thought it only fair to inform you that if
something isn't forthcoming on this issue very soon my intentions are to
write a letter to the Better Business Bureau regarding your business
practices on this type of issue. I intend to also post this same
complaint and experience on the RV builders blog.
Again trust me this is not about the monies, hell if I'm building a
$250,000 airplane this is small potatoes, but rather that you appear to
be jerking me around on a return that should have been an exchange at
the time of the return. I was told that it's the battery company that is
the problem. Then I would suggest that you drop that line of product
from your inventory if you are unable to support it. If you went to a
department store and bought an item and then because it was defective
took it back, would you accept the explanation that I really can't give
you credit until the supplier oks it? I think not. If you take on a
product and sell it you have to take responsibility with the customer
for that product and you deal with the supplier or at least that's how I
always ran my business. I never had a vendor that had that much control
over me, it was actually the opposite. If they didn't want to support
their product they were gone.
Understand this is not a threat but rather I'm just letting you know
in advance what my intentions are so you are not surprised when it
occurs.
Wayne Edgerton
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT. |
This is very true, but it gives people options like keeping your existing
ELT until prices drop a bit and using a portable 406 PLB like the MicroFix
. I expect that most airliners and many other aircraft will continue to fl
y with their second radio tuned to 121.5 as good members of the community.
For me this seems like a good compromise and allows for portability that y
ou just can't get in the on board units. When the on board units drop in p
rice to a reasonable figure I will then replace and have two levels of redu
ndancy for that rare case I need SAR to find me.
Yes for this to work it requires the PLB to be activated prior to an inci
dent in case of unconsciousness. I plan to mount it somewhere in arms reac
h so that I can add it to the emergency checklist. The nice thing with the
Microfix is it's just a matter of hitting one button and freeing the ante
nna. If it's secured someplace like under my legs, it has a very good chan
ce of surviving if I do. And with the canopy being made of fiberglass it i
s essentially transparent to the beacon.
My $0.02
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of GRANSCOTT@aol.com
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT.
Michael...I know AOPA is fighting this with good cause for us...but also be
aware that the USAF informed the CAP folks that they will no be accepting
the old 121.5 code for SAR's in the future. The will only be responding to
the 406 series for SAR's...I don't know how they are going to handle a phy
sical report for an over due aircraft, though.
When you read on these ELT's you'd believe they are all fail safe which the
y are not. CAP still finds down aircraft via search in air and on ground b
esides electronic methods...but it's not so immediate, though.
Patrick
________________________________
See what's new at Make AOL Your Homepage.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Bad battery/bad experience |
The best in this business are Stein Air and Flightline Interiors. If every
company could replicate their customer service the world would be in harmo
ny. =0AYou can tell when a supplier loves their job, their product, and the
community they sell to. Even though Stein gives me crap about not wearing
his t-shirts during prime photo opportunities at Oshkosh, he still is a gr
eat supplier. =0AVan's does a good job too but you really get a personal ex
perience like working with Stein and Abby. =0Awww.steinair.com=0Ahttp://ww
w.flightlineinteriors.com/=0A =0AScott Schmidt=0Ascottmschmidt@yahoo.com=0A
=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: pascal <rv10builder@verizon.ne
t>=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, September 14, 2007 7:35:35
AM=0ASubject: Re: RV10-List: Bad battery/bad experience=0A=0A=0ALooks like
you were more patient than I. BBB needs to be advised. This will speak lou
der for others who look at the Tex-Air company and see that people have com
plained than anything else.=0A =0AOn a different perspective and this is re
lated to tools. I had a a countersink that broke shortly after using it for
the empennage and I wrote Brown tools asking if it was normal. Michael Bro
wn himself took the e-mail, expressed concern, asked for a picture with the
writing so he could track the source, than immediately shipped out 2 repla
cement countersinks (different source). There are great support teams out t
here and I'm sure using this forum and Tim's site we can steer those behind
us in the right direction. Tim has mentioned SteinAir as a resource others
other companies.=0APascal=0A =0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: Wayn
e Edgerton =0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Friday, September 14, 20
07 6:18 AM=0ASubject: RV10-List: Bad battery/bad experience=0A=0A=0AI thoug
ht I would pass along to you an experience I've had with Tex-Air Parts in F
ort Worth on a Concorde battery I purchased from them. At the beginning of
the year I =0Apurchase a Concorde RG25CX for my plane from Tex-Air but didn
't use it until May when I went to start the plane. The battery was DOA and
I returned it for exchange. They wouldn't exchange it outright but rather
I had to buy a new one and they said they would process the credit and send
it to me. As of today I still haven't received the credit. Below is an e-m
ail I sent them on Aug 25th and I'm still waiting for the refund.=0A =0AI g
uess what's irritating me is what appears to be their unwillingness to refu
nd my money for a bad battery they sold me. I'm just posting this to give o
thers heads up on where you purchase your items and be sure they will stand
behind what they sell.=0A =0AHere is the e-mail I sent them on Aug 25th.
=0A =0AAlso I've noticed that when starting the plane with this battery I g
et an initial hesitation, like it's having difficulty turning the engine ov
er but when I try the second time it turns over fine. In hindsight I might
look at the Odyssey PC925 rather than the Concorde.=0A =0AWayne Edgerton N
602WT =0Aa little pissed off at Tex-Air =0A =0A____________________________
___________________________________________________________________________
_____________________________________=0AI WILL FWD YOUR EMAIL TO GENE. H
E IS THE ONE THAT KNOWS ABOUT YOUR BATTERY. SORRY YOU ARE HAVING SO MUCH
TROUBLE.=0A =0ATHANKS,=0ADONNA=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: Wayne Edgerton [mailto:
wayne.e@grandecom.net] =0ASent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 6:20 AM=0ATo: tex
air@texair.com=0ASubject: Return refund=0A=0A=0ATo return credit manager,
=0A =0AOn 5/18/07 I returned a Concorde battery RG25CX, see attachment. I p
urchased the battery from your company for the RV10 that I was building. Wh
en I was ready to start my engine on the RV10 it would not start it. The ba
ttery was obviously defective somehow right out of the box. So I returned t
he battery to your store in Fort Worth and purchased another one, which has
worked fine. I was told at the time that I would have to pay for the new b
attery and then would receive credit for the returned battery when it was t
ested.=0A =0AAfter sometime I called into your FW store and asked about the
progress of the credit. I was told that there would be a charge of somethi
ng like $90 to test the battery and I think I had to pay the shipping charg
e back to the supplier to have it tested. This obviously irritated me and I
told the person why don't I just write this experience off to a company wi
th a really bad return policy, but that I would be making a posting to the
RV blog about my experience with the battery and your company. I was told t
o wait and lets see what can be done.=0A =0AI did wait and nothing happened
so I called back in and was told someone in the back had to test it and th
ey had been really busy. I have called in on multiple occasion inquiring on
the progress, probably 5 or 6 times, and have been told we're getting clos
e. Let me explain that the money for me is not the issue. The issue is I bo
ught a battery from your company that apparently was defective out of the b
ox and now I'm getting a complete run around on receiving back credit for i
t. Boy if you think this type of customer service creates customer loyalty,
you must have attended the wrong business school.=0A =0AI believe I've bee
n really patient on this but the patience issue has just about run it's coa
rse. I thought it only fair to inform you that if something isn't forthcomi
ng on this issue very soon my intentions are to write a letter to the Bette
r Business Bureau regarding your business practices on this type of issue.
I intend to also post this same complaint and experience on the RV builders
blog. =0A =0AAgain trust me this is not about the monies, hell if I'm buil
ding a $250,000 airplane this is small potatoes, but rather that you appear
to be jerking me around on a return that should have been an exchange at t
he time of the return. I was told that it's the battery company that is the
problem. Then I would suggest that you drop that line of product from your
inventory if you are unable to support it. If you went to a department sto
re and bought an item and then because it was defective took it back, would
you accept the explanation that I really can't give you credit until the s
upplier oks it? I think not. If you take on a product and sell it you have
to take responsibility with the customer for that product and you deal with
the supplier or at least that's how I always ran my business. I never had
a vendor that had that much control over me, it was actually the opposite.
If they didn't want to support their product they were gone.=0A =0AUndersta
nd this is not a threat but rather I'm just letting you know in advance wha
t my intentions are so you are not surprised when it occurs. =0A =0AWayne E
dgerton=0A=0A=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http:
//www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List=0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.c
============
Message 11
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| Subject: | Bad battery/bad experience |
I would like to second what Scott said about Flightline Interiors. I
received the seats for my RV-10, and they had made a mistake on the
embroidery. My N number is N750SM, and they sewed N7505M. I called Abbey,
and she had the corrected seats back to me inside of a week...no argument.
I would pay more for that kind of customer service, but, no need, her prices
are very competitive.
Steve Mills N750SM (reserved)
RV-10 40486 Slow-build Eggenfellner E-6T
Naperville, Illinois
Finishing kit
Do Not Archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Bad battery/bad experience
The best in this business are Stein Air and Flightline Interiors. If every
company could replicate their customer service the world would be in
harmony.
You can tell when a supplier loves their job, their product, and the
community they sell to. Even though Stein gives me crap about not wearing
his t-shirts during prime photo opportunities at Oshkosh, he still is a
great supplier.
Van's does a good job too but you really get a personal experience like
working with Stein and Abby.
www.steinair.com
http://www.flightlineinteriors.com/
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
----- Original Message ----
From: pascal <rv10builder@verizon.net>
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 7:35:35 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Bad battery/bad experience
Looks like you were more patient than I. BBB needs to be advised. This will
speak louder for others who look at the Tex-Air company and see that people
have complained than anything else.
On a different perspective and this is related to tools. I had a a
countersink that broke shortly after using it for the empennage and I wrote
Brown tools asking if it was normal. Michael Brown himself took the e-mail,
expressed concern, asked for a picture with the writing so he could track
the source, than immediately shipped out 2 replacement countersinks
(different source). There are great support teams out there and I'm sure
using this forum and Tim's site we can steer those behind us in the right
direction. Tim has mentioned SteinAir as a resource others other companies.
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne Edgerton <mailto:wayne.e@grandecom.net>
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 6:18 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Bad battery/bad experience
I thought I would pass along to you an experience I've had with Tex-Air
Parts in Fort Worth on a Concorde battery I purchased from them. At the
beginning of the year I
purchase a Concorde RG25CX for my plane from Tex-Air but didn't use it until
May when I went to start the plane. The battery was DOA and I returned it
for exchange. They wouldn't exchange it outright but rather I had to buy a
new one and they said they would process the credit and send it to me. As of
today I still haven't received the credit. Below is an e-mail I sent them on
Aug 25th and I'm still waiting for the refund.
I guess what's irritating me is what appears to be their unwillingness to
refund my money for a bad battery they sold me. I'm just posting this to
give others heads up on where you purchase your items and be sure they will
stand behind what they sell.
Here is the e-mail I sent them on Aug 25th.
Also I've noticed that when starting the plane with this battery I get an
initial hesitation, like it's having difficulty turning the engine over but
when I try the second time it turns over fine. In hindsight I might look at
the Odyssey PC925 rather than the Concorde.
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
a little pissed off at Tex-Air
____________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________
I WILL FWD YOUR EMAIL TO GENE. HE IS THE ONE THAT KNOWS ABOUT YOUR
BATTERY. SORRY YOU ARE HAVING SO MUCH TROUBLE.
THANKS,
DONNA
_____
From: Wayne Edgerton [mailto:wayne.e@grandecom.net]
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 6:20 AM
Subject: Return refund
To return credit manager,
On 5/18/07 I returned a Concorde battery RG25CX, see attachment. I purchased
the battery from your company for the RV10 that I was building. When I was
ready to start my engine on the RV10 it would not start it. The battery was
obviously defective somehow right out of the box. So I returned the battery
to your store in Fort Worth and purchased another one, which has worked
fine. I was told at the time that I would have to pay for the new battery
and then would receive credit for the returned battery when it was tested.
After sometime I called into your FW store and asked about the progress of
the credit. I was told that there would be a charge of something like $90 to
test the battery and I think I had to pay the shipping charge back to the
supplier to have it tested. This obviously irritated me and I told the
person why don't I just write this experience off to a company with a really
bad return policy, but that I would be making a posting to the RV blog about
my experience with the battery and your company. I was told to wait and lets
see what can be done.
I did wait and nothing happened so I called back in and was told someone in
the back had to test it and they had been really busy. I have called in on
multiple occasion inquiring on the progress, probably 5 or 6 times, and have
been told we're getting close. Let me explain that the money for me is not
the issue. The issue is I bought a battery from your company that apparently
was defective out of the box and now I'm getting a complete run around on
receiving back credit for it. Boy if you think this type of customer service
creates customer loyalty, you must have attended the wrong business school.
I believe I've been really patient on this but the patience issue has just
about run it's coarse. I thought it only fair to inform you that if
something isn't forthcoming on this issue very soon my intentions are to
write a letter to the Better Business Bureau regarding your business
practices on this type of issue. I intend to also post this same complaint
and experience on the RV builders blog.
Again trust me this is not about the monies, hell if I'm building a $250,000
airplane this is small potatoes, but rather that you appear to be jerking me
around on a return that should have been an exchange at the time of the
return. I was told that it's the battery company that is the problem. Then I
would suggest that you drop that line of product from your inventory if you
are unable to support it. If you went to a department store and bought an
item and then because it was defective took it back, would you accept the
explanation that I really can't give you credit until the supplier oks it? I
think not. If you take on a product and sell it you have to take
responsibility with the customer for that product and you deal with the
supplier or at least that's how I always ran my business. I never had a
vendor that had that much control over me, it was actually the opposite. If
they didn't want to support their product they were gone.
Understand this is not a threat but rather I'm just letting you know in
advance what my intentions are so you are not surprised when it occurs.
Wayne Edgerton
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
http://for==================
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT. |
Wondering....this might be a good place for the experimental
community to step in. Perhaps a manufacturer to offer a well-priced
experimental product, or, maybe we use some brain power. It wouldn't
seem to hard to take an existing ELT case, leave the switches and
crash sensing stuff, and rip the guts out and install a good
GPS equipped PLB and maybe adjust the antenna length accordingly.
In fact, if done right, you could use a GPS equipped PLB that
could be removed after crash for when you're hiking it
back to camp. Ideally, we'd have a product that would offer the
best of all worlds....a manually switch-on-able portable built
in GPS, with a removable handheld module for hiking out,
and an external GPS feed for in-flight use pre-crash. Seems
that if someone designed all this stuff there would not only
be a better product, but one that could be made cheaper or at
least be worth a thousand bucks.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
> This is very true, but it gives people options like keeping your
> existing ELT until prices drop a bit and using a portable 406 PLB like
> the MicroFix. I expect that most airliners and many other aircraft will
> continue to fly with their second radio tuned to 121.5 as good members
> of the community. For me this seems like a good compromise and allows
> for portability that you just cant get in the on board units. When the
> on board units drop in price to a reasonable figure I will then replace
> and have two levels of redundancy for that rare case I need SAR to find me.
>
>
>
> Yes for this to work it requires the PLB to be activated prior to an
> incident in case of unconsciousness. I plan to mount it somewhere in
> arms reach so that I can add it to the emergency checklist. The nice
> thing with the Microfix is its just a matter of hitting one button and
> freeing the antenna. If its secured someplace like under my legs, it
> has a very good chance of surviving if I do. And with the canopy being
> made of fiberglass it is essentially transparent to the beacon.
>
>
>
> My $0.02
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *GRANSCOTT@aol.com
> *Sent:* Friday, September 14, 2007 9:21 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Re: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT.
>
>
>
> Michael...I know AOPA is fighting this with good cause for us...but also
> be aware that the USAF informed the CAP folks that they will no be
> accepting the old 121.5 code for SAR's in the future. The will only be
> responding to the 406 series for SAR's...I don't know how they are going
> to handle a physical report for an over due aircraft, though.
>
>
>
> When you read on these ELT's you'd believe they are all fail safe which
> they are not. CAP still finds down aircraft via search in air and on
> ground besides electronic methods...but it's not so immediate, though.
>
>
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> See what's new at Make AOL Your Homepage.
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Bad battery/bad experience |
Those SteinAir T-Shirts make great grease rags when lubing bearings,
and doing oil changes. ;) (just had to take that dig at Stein
in hopes that he's monitoring the list today)
Actually, if you want a bit of comment to read on dealing with
dealers, some of it related to Stein, see the off-list reply
below that I sent to another builder inquiring about where
to buy servos. It has some thinking points anyway.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Personally, I think you're better calling most any vendor with
the pricing questions. It gives them time to get to know you
and what you may need for the future, and help you decide what
fits you best. Many dealers don't publish their bottom price
on the web, but they'll give them to you as you're building
your avionics packages. Also, Stark, Alex, and SteinAir
have all proven themselves to be great dealers to work
through. Stein especially has proven with that D2AV debacle
that he won't let any customers down. In that particular
case, the people that went through dealers fared better
than those who bought direct. One thing you'll find out
as you buy avionics...dealer relationships are important
to build. There needs to be an understanding of where you
want to go, and they can help you get there in the best
way for you. All of these businesses are very very small in
perspective to the businesses you buy other goods from.
Your business means a lot to them, and they will be trying
hard to satisfy your needs properly. Right now, as you
start buying your AP servos, it's a good time to keep in
mind that you're starting a relationship. Good service
is a two-way street too. When you buy from a dealer,
they'll be very happy to support you. Buy some things
from the mass sellers, like Aircraft Spruce (not that
they're bad), and then just see how good the support is
when you have problems of a technical nature. It doesn't
make a dealer happy when you buy something a discount
Joe's, but then you call them because you can't get it
to work. But, buy that same item from them, and they'll
bend over backwards to make sure you get it working
properly. The dollars you throw at them will come back
to you in the form of support, and considering that you're
not going to be just hauling your plane to the local
avionics guy and handing him a few hundred bucks for
troubleshooting all these little things, you're saving
a fortune by having a good relationship with your
dealer.
As far as Stein goes, I didn't know him from Adam when
I was first buying. I got my servos direct, because I
couldn't imagine that he'd sell them cheaper. And, when
I started looking at avionics, I resisted actually pretty
hard giving him business, because I thought that going
to a dealer was just going to cost me more money than
buying direct or going to ACS. It's actually funny that
I can remember being very cautious talking to him at
first. Turns out he's been invaluable as a dealer, and
turned into a good friend. So yeah, I'm biased for sure,
but the man earned it from me. I would have never
been so happy with my avionics had I gone down my
original path, and not had his guidance along the way.
So yep, call any of the dealers and get to know them,
and then give them your request for quote.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Scott Schmidt wrote:
> The best in this business are Stein Air and Flightline Interiors. If
> every company could replicate their customer service the world would be
> in harmony.
> You can tell when a supplier loves their job, their product, and the
> community they sell to. Even though Stein gives me crap about not
> wearing his t-shirts during prime photo opportunities at Oshkosh, he
> still is a great supplier.
> Van's does a good job too but you really get a personal experience
> like working with Stein and Abby.
> www.steinair.com <http://www.steinair.com>
> http://www.flightlineinteriors.com/
>
> Scott Schmidt
> scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: pascal <rv10builder@verizon.net>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 7:35:35 AM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Bad battery/bad experience
>
> Looks like you were more patient than I. BBB needs to be advised. This
> will speak louder for others who look at the Tex-Air company and see
> that people have complained than anything else.
>
> On a different perspective and this is related to tools. I had a a
> countersink that broke shortly after using it for the empennage and I
> wrote Brown tools asking if it was normal. Michael Brown himself took
> the e-mail, expressed concern, asked for a picture with the writing so
> he could track the source, than immediately shipped out 2 replacement
> countersinks (different source). There are great support teams out there
> and I'm sure using this forum and Tim's site we can steer those behind
> us in the right direction. Tim has mentioned SteinAir as a resource
> others other companies.
> Pascal
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* Wayne Edgerton <mailto:wayne.e@grandecom.net>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, September 14, 2007 6:18 AM
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Bad battery/bad experience
>
> I thought I would pass along to you an experience I've had with
> Tex-Air Parts in Fort Worth on a Concorde battery I purchased from
> them. At the beginning of the year I
> purchase a Concorde RG25CX for my plane from Tex-Air but didn't use
> it until May when I went to start the plane. The battery was DOA and
> I returned it for exchange. They wouldn't exchange it outright but
> rather I had to buy a new one and they said they would process the
> credit and send it to me. As of today I still haven't received the
> credit. Below is an e-mail I sent them on Aug 25th and I'm still
> waiting for the refund.
>
> I guess what's irritating me is what appears to be their
> unwillingness to refund my money for a bad battery they sold me. I'm
> just posting this to give others heads up on where you purchase your
> items and be sure they will stand behind what they sell.
>
> Here is the e-mail I sent them on Aug 25th.
>
> Also I've noticed that when starting the plane with this battery I
> get an initial hesitation, like it's having difficulty turning the
> engine over but when I try the second time it turns over fine. In
> hindsight I might look at the Odyssey PC925 rather than the Concorde.
>
> Wayne Edgerton N602WT
> a little pissed off at Tex-Air
>
> I WILL FWD YOUR EMAIL TO GENE. HE IS THE ONE THAT KNOWS ABOUT
> YOUR BATTERY. SORRY YOU ARE HAVING SO MUCH TROUBLE.
>
> THANKS,
> DONNA
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Wayne Edgerton [mailto:wayne.e@grandecom.net]
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 25, 2007 6:20 AM
> *To:* texair@texair.com
> *Subject:* Return refund
>
> To return credit manager,
>
> On 5/18/07 I returned a Concorde battery RG25CX, see attachment. I
> purchased the battery from your company for the RV10 that I was
> building. When I was ready to start my engine on the RV10 it would
> not start it. The battery was obviously defective somehow right out
> of the box. So I returned the battery to your store in Fort Worth
> and purchased another one, which has worked fine. I was told at the
> time that I would have to pay for the new battery and then would
> receive credit for the returned battery when it was tested.
>
> After sometime I called into your FW store and asked about the
> progress of the credit. I was told that there would be a charge of
> something like $90 to test the battery and I think I had to pay the
> shipping charge back to the supplier to have it tested. This
> obviously irritated me and I told the person why don't I just write
> this experience off to a company with a really bad return policy,
> but that I would be making a posting to the RV blog about my
> experience with the battery and your company. I was told to wait and
> lets see what can be done.
>
> I did wait and nothing happened so I called back in and was told
> someone in the back had to test it and they had been really busy. I
> have called in on multiple occasion inquiring on the progress,
> probably 5 or 6 times, and have been told we're getting close. Let
> me explain that the money for me is not the issue. The issue is I
> bought a battery from your company that apparently was defective out
> of the box and now I'm getting a complete run around on receiving
> back credit for it. Boy if you think this type of customer service
> creates customer loyalty, you must have attended the wrong business
> school.
>
> I believe I've been really patient on this but the patience
> issue has just about run it's coarse. I thought it only fair to
> inform you that if something isn't forthcoming on this issue very
> soon my intentions are to write a letter to the Better Business
> Bureau regarding your business practices on this type of issue.
> I intend to also post this same complaint and experience on the RV
> builders blog.
>
> Again trust me this is not about the monies, hell if I'm building
> a $250,000 airplane this is small potatoes, but rather that
> you appear to be jerking me around on a return that should have been
> an exchange at the time of the return. I was told that it's the
> battery company that is the problem. Then I would suggest that
> you drop that line of product from your inventory if you are unable
> to support it. If you went to a department store and bought an item
> and then because it was defective took it back, would you accept the
> explanation that I really can't give you credit until the supplier
> oks it? I think not. If you take on a product and sell it you have
> to take responsibility with the customer for that product and *_you
> _*deal with the supplier or at least that's how I always ran my
> business. I never had a vendor that had that much control over me,
> it was actually the opposite. If they didn't want to support their
> product they were gone.
>
> Understand this is not a threat but rather I'm just letting you know
> in advance what my intentions are so you are not surprised when it
> occurs.
>
> Wayne Edgerton
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> *
>
> *http://for==================
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 14
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|
I'm about ready to purchase the wing kit and a used has popped up on VAF?
I'm curious as to what concerns and/or issues may arise by purchasing a used kit?
This particular kit has been sitting in the midwest, unopened for 3 years.
It looks like I could save about 10%, but is saving 10% worth the risk?
Some of thing things I've already thought about are:
- Corrision
- Missing parts (I believe Van's only warranties for 30 days)
- Blue plastic permanently adhered to the aluminum
Have there been any significant changes to the wing in the last 3 years? Any other
concerns that I haven't thought of?
thanks,
bob
Message 15
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| Subject: | Bad battery/bad experience |
The new color, brown, especially works well when wiping up spilled
resin!
Actually, my wife gets all of my vendor shirts, because they always
order small guy sizes and those of us that are Horizontally challenged
do not fit in those girly man sizes....
Dan
N289DT RV10E
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Bad battery/bad experience
Those SteinAir T-Shirts make great grease rags when lubing bearings,
and doing oil changes. ;) (just had to take that dig at Stein
in hopes that he's monitoring the list today)
Actually, if you want a bit of comment to read on dealing with
dealers, some of it related to Stein, see the off-list reply
below that I sent to another builder inquiring about where
to buy servos. It has some thinking points anyway.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Personally, I think you're better calling most any vendor with
the pricing questions. It gives them time to get to know you
and what you may need for the future, and help you decide what
fits you best. Many dealers don't publish their bottom price
on the web, but they'll give them to you as you're building
your avionics packages. Also, Stark, Alex, and SteinAir
have all proven themselves to be great dealers to work
through. Stein especially has proven with that D2AV debacle
that he won't let any customers down. In that particular
case, the people that went through dealers fared better
than those who bought direct. One thing you'll find out
as you buy avionics...dealer relationships are important
to build. There needs to be an understanding of where you
want to go, and they can help you get there in the best
way for you. All of these businesses are very very small in
perspective to the businesses you buy other goods from.
Your business means a lot to them, and they will be trying
hard to satisfy your needs properly. Right now, as you
start buying your AP servos, it's a good time to keep in
mind that you're starting a relationship. Good service
is a two-way street too. When you buy from a dealer,
they'll be very happy to support you. Buy some things
from the mass sellers, like Aircraft Spruce (not that
they're bad), and then just see how good the support is
when you have problems of a technical nature. It doesn't
make a dealer happy when you buy something a discount
Joe's, but then you call them because you can't get it
to work. But, buy that same item from them, and they'll
bend over backwards to make sure you get it working
properly. The dollars you throw at them will come back
to you in the form of support, and considering that you're
not going to be just hauling your plane to the local
avionics guy and handing him a few hundred bucks for
troubleshooting all these little things, you're saving
a fortune by having a good relationship with your
dealer.
As far as Stein goes, I didn't know him from Adam when
I was first buying. I got my servos direct, because I
couldn't imagine that he'd sell them cheaper. And, when
I started looking at avionics, I resisted actually pretty
hard giving him business, because I thought that going
to a dealer was just going to cost me more money than
buying direct or going to ACS. It's actually funny that
I can remember being very cautious talking to him at
first. Turns out he's been invaluable as a dealer, and
turned into a good friend. So yeah, I'm biased for sure,
but the man earned it from me. I would have never
been so happy with my avionics had I gone down my
original path, and not had his guidance along the way.
So yep, call any of the dealers and get to know them,
and then give them your request for quote.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Scott Schmidt wrote:
> The best in this business are Stein Air and Flightline Interiors. If
> every company could replicate their customer service the world would
be
> in harmony.
> You can tell when a supplier loves their job, their product, and the
> community they sell to. Even though Stein gives me crap about not
> wearing his t-shirts during prime photo opportunities at Oshkosh, he
> still is a great supplier.
> Van's does a good job too but you really get a personal experience
> like working with Stein and Abby.
> www.steinair.com <http://www.steinair.com>
> http://www.flightlineinteriors.com/
>
> Scott Schmidt
> scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: pascal <rv10builder@verizon.net>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 7:35:35 AM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Bad battery/bad experience
>
> Looks like you were more patient than I. BBB needs to be advised. This
> will speak louder for others who look at the Tex-Air company and see
> that people have complained than anything else.
>
> On a different perspective and this is related to tools. I had a a
> countersink that broke shortly after using it for the empennage and I
> wrote Brown tools asking if it was normal. Michael Brown himself took
> the e-mail, expressed concern, asked for a picture with the writing so
> he could track the source, than immediately shipped out 2 replacement
> countersinks (different source). There are great support teams out
there
> and I'm sure using this forum and Tim's site we can steer those behind
> us in the right direction. Tim has mentioned SteinAir as a resource
> others other companies.
> Pascal
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* Wayne Edgerton <mailto:wayne.e@grandecom.net>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, September 14, 2007 6:18 AM
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Bad battery/bad experience
>
> I thought I would pass along to you an experience I've had with
> Tex-Air Parts in Fort Worth on a Concorde battery I purchased from
> them. At the beginning of the year I
> purchase a Concorde RG25CX for my plane from Tex-Air but didn't
use
> it until May when I went to start the plane. The battery was DOA
and
> I returned it for exchange. They wouldn't exchange it outright but
> rather I had to buy a new one and they said they would process the
> credit and send it to me. As of today I still haven't received the
> credit. Below is an e-mail I sent them on Aug 25th and I'm still
> waiting for the refund.
>
> I guess what's irritating me is what appears to be their
> unwillingness to refund my money for a bad battery they sold me.
I'm
> just posting this to give others heads up on where you purchase
your
> items and be sure they will stand behind what they sell.
>
> Here is the e-mail I sent them on Aug 25th.
>
> Also I've noticed that when starting the plane with this battery I
> get an initial hesitation, like it's having difficulty turning the
> engine over but when I try the second time it turns over fine. In
> hindsight I might look at the Odyssey PC925 rather than the
Concorde.
>
> Wayne Edgerton N602WT
> a little pissed off at Tex-Air
>
> I WILL FWD YOUR EMAIL TO GENE. HE IS THE ONE THAT KNOWS ABOUT
> YOUR BATTERY. SORRY YOU ARE HAVING SO MUCH TROUBLE.
>
> THANKS,
> DONNA
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Wayne Edgerton [mailto:wayne.e@grandecom.net]
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 25, 2007 6:20 AM
> *To:* texair@texair.com
> *Subject:* Return refund
>
> To return credit manager,
>
> On 5/18/07 I returned a Concorde battery RG25CX, see attachment. I
> purchased the battery from your company for the RV10 that I was
> building. When I was ready to start my engine on the RV10 it would
> not start it. The battery was obviously defective somehow right
out
> of the box. So I returned the battery to your store in Fort Worth
> and purchased another one, which has worked fine. I was told at
the
> time that I would have to pay for the new battery and then would
> receive credit for the returned battery when it was tested.
>
> After sometime I called into your FW store and asked about the
> progress of the credit. I was told that there would be a charge of
> something like $90 to test the battery and I think I had to pay
the
> shipping charge back to the supplier to have it tested. This
> obviously irritated me and I told the person why don't I just
write
> this experience off to a company with a really bad return policy,
> but that I would be making a posting to the RV blog about my
> experience with the battery and your company. I was told to wait
and
> lets see what can be done.
>
> I did wait and nothing happened so I called back in and was told
> someone in the back had to test it and they had been really busy.
I
> have called in on multiple occasion inquiring on the progress,
> probably 5 or 6 times, and have been told we're getting close. Let
> me explain that the money for me is not the issue. The issue is I
> bought a battery from your company that apparently was defective
out
> of the box and now I'm getting a complete run around on receiving
> back credit for it. Boy if you think this type of customer service
> creates customer loyalty, you must have attended the wrong
business
> school.
>
> I believe I've been really patient on this but the patience
> issue has just about run it's coarse. I thought it only fair to
> inform you that if something isn't forthcoming on this issue very
> soon my intentions are to write a letter to the Better Business
> Bureau regarding your business practices on this type of issue.
> I intend to also post this same complaint and experience on the RV
> builders blog.
>
> Again trust me this is not about the monies, hell if I'm building
> a $250,000 airplane this is small potatoes, but rather that
> you appear to be jerking me around on a return that should have
been
> an exchange at the time of the return. I was told that it's the
> battery company that is the problem. Then I would suggest that
> you drop that line of product from your inventory if you are
unable
> to support it. If you went to a department store and bought an
item
> and then because it was defective took it back, would you accept
the
> explanation that I really can't give you credit until the supplier
> oks it? I think not. If you take on a product and sell it you have
> to take responsibility with the customer for that product and
*_you
> _*deal with the supplier or at least that's how I always ran my
> business. I never had a vendor that had that much control over me,
> it was actually the opposite. If they didn't want to support their
> product they were gone.
>
> Understand this is not a threat but rather I'm just letting you
know
> in advance what my intentions are so you are not surprised when it
> occurs.
>
> Wayne Edgerton
>
> *
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> *
>
> *http://for==================
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 16
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|
Bob:
I bought my fuselage kit, still in the crate, but 2+ years old, about a year
ago. I had no problem getting the blue plastic off, there was no evidence
of corrosion, the kit was complete, and I saved some money. The only
problem I ran into, was when I wanted to return some unused parts to Van's.
Since I did not buy it directly from them, they would only give me 60%. (I
had forgotten that I did not buy from them, when I tried to return the
parts, so 60% is fair).
In summary, I would be more worried if the kit was opened, and/or was not
properly protected.
Best of luck,
Steve Mills N750SM (reserved)
RV-10 40486 Slow-build Eggenfellner E-6T
Naperville, Illinois
Finishing kit
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rvmail@thelefflers.com
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 11:21 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Used Wing Kit
I'm about ready to purchase the wing kit and a used has popped up on VAF?
I'm curious as to what concerns and/or issues may arise by purchasing a used
kit? This particular kit has been sitting in the midwest, unopened for 3
years. It looks like I could save about 10%, but is saving 10% worth the
risk?
Some of thing things I've already thought about are:
- Corrision
- Missing parts (I believe Van's only warranties for 30 days)
- Blue plastic permanently adhered to the aluminum
Have there been any significant changes to the wing in the last 3 years?
Any other concerns that I haven't thought of?
thanks,
bob
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Bad battery/bad experience |
You mean you are not an FAA standard pilot? How is the Egg doing? Any
data you can share?
Bobby
40116
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel
R.
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 10:24 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Bad battery/bad experience
--> <LloydDR@wernerco.com>
The new color, brown, especially works well when wiping up spilled
resin!
Actually, my wife gets all of my vendor shirts, because they always
order small guy sizes and those of us that are Horizontally challenged
do not fit in those girly man sizes....
Dan
N289DT RV10E
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Bad battery/bad experience
Those SteinAir T-Shirts make great grease rags when lubing bearings, and
doing oil changes. ;) (just had to take that dig at Stein in hopes that
he's monitoring the list today)
Actually, if you want a bit of comment to read on dealing with dealers,
some of it related to Stein, see the off-list reply below that I sent to
another builder inquiring about where to buy servos. It has some
thinking points anyway.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Personally, I think you're better calling most any vendor with the
pricing questions. It gives them time to get to know you and what you
may need for the future, and help you decide what fits you best. Many
dealers don't publish their bottom price on the web, but they'll give
them to you as you're building your avionics packages. Also, Stark,
Alex, and SteinAir have all proven themselves to be great dealers to
work through. Stein especially has proven with that D2AV debacle that
he won't let any customers down. In that particular case, the people
that went through dealers fared better than those who bought direct.
One thing you'll find out as you buy avionics...dealer relationships are
important to build. There needs to be an understanding of where you
want to go, and they can help you get there in the best way for you.
All of these businesses are very very small in perspective to the
businesses you buy other goods from.
Your business means a lot to them, and they will be trying hard to
satisfy your needs properly. Right now, as you start buying your AP
servos, it's a good time to keep in mind that you're starting a
relationship. Good service is a two-way street too. When you buy from a
dealer, they'll be very happy to support you. Buy some things from the
mass sellers, like Aircraft Spruce (not that they're bad), and then just
see how good the support is when you have problems of a technical
nature. It doesn't make a dealer happy when you buy something a
discount Joe's, but then you call them because you can't get it to work.
But, buy that same item from them, and they'll bend over backwards to
make sure you get it working properly. The dollars you throw at them
will come back to you in the form of support, and considering that
you're not going to be just hauling your plane to the local avionics guy
and handing him a few hundred bucks for troubleshooting all these little
things, you're saving a fortune by having a good relationship with your
dealer.
As far as Stein goes, I didn't know him from Adam when I was first
buying. I got my servos direct, because I couldn't imagine that he'd
sell them cheaper. And, when I started looking at avionics, I resisted
actually pretty hard giving him business, because I thought that going
to a dealer was just going to cost me more money than buying direct or
going to ACS. It's actually funny that I can remember being very
cautious talking to him at first. Turns out he's been invaluable as a
dealer, and turned into a good friend. So yeah, I'm biased for sure,
but the man earned it from me. I would have never been so happy with my
avionics had I gone down my original path, and not had his guidance
along the way.
So yep, call any of the dealers and get to know them, and then give them
your request for quote.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Scott Schmidt wrote:
> The best in this business are Stein Air and Flightline Interiors. If
> every company could replicate their customer service the world would
be
> in harmony.
> You can tell when a supplier loves their job, their product, and the
> community they sell to. Even though Stein gives me crap about not
> wearing his t-shirts during prime photo opportunities at Oshkosh, he
> still is a great supplier.
> Van's does a good job too but you really get a personal experience
> like working with Stein and Abby.
> www.steinair.com <http://www.steinair.com>
> http://www.flightlineinteriors.com/
>
> Scott Schmidt
> scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: pascal <rv10builder@verizon.net>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 7:35:35 AM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Bad battery/bad experience
>
> Looks like you were more patient than I. BBB needs to be advised. This
> will speak louder for others who look at the Tex-Air company and see
> that people have complained than anything else.
>
> On a different perspective and this is related to tools. I had a a
> countersink that broke shortly after using it for the empennage and I
> wrote Brown tools asking if it was normal. Michael Brown himself took
> the e-mail, expressed concern, asked for a picture with the writing so
> he could track the source, than immediately shipped out 2 replacement
> countersinks (different source). There are great support teams out
there
> and I'm sure using this forum and Tim's site we can steer those behind
> us in the right direction. Tim has mentioned SteinAir as a resource
> others other companies.
> Pascal
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* Wayne Edgerton <mailto:wayne.e@grandecom.net>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, September 14, 2007 6:18 AM
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Bad battery/bad experience
>
> I thought I would pass along to you an experience I've had with
> Tex-Air Parts in Fort Worth on a Concorde battery I purchased from
> them. At the beginning of the year I
> purchase a Concorde RG25CX for my plane from Tex-Air but didn't
use
> it until May when I went to start the plane. The battery was DOA
and
> I returned it for exchange. They wouldn't exchange it outright but
> rather I had to buy a new one and they said they would process the
> credit and send it to me. As of today I still haven't received the
> credit. Below is an e-mail I sent them on Aug 25th and I'm still
> waiting for the refund.
>
> I guess what's irritating me is what appears to be their
> unwillingness to refund my money for a bad battery they sold me.
I'm
> just posting this to give others heads up on where you purchase
your
> items and be sure they will stand behind what they sell.
>
> Here is the e-mail I sent them on Aug 25th.
>
> Also I've noticed that when starting the plane with this battery I
> get an initial hesitation, like it's having difficulty turning the
> engine over but when I try the second time it turns over fine. In
> hindsight I might look at the Odyssey PC925 rather than the
Concorde.
>
> Wayne Edgerton N602WT
> a little pissed off at Tex-Air
>
> I WILL FWD YOUR EMAIL TO GENE. HE IS THE ONE THAT KNOWS ABOUT
> YOUR BATTERY. SORRY YOU ARE HAVING SO MUCH TROUBLE.
>
> THANKS,
> DONNA
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Wayne Edgerton [mailto:wayne.e@grandecom.net]
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 25, 2007 6:20 AM
> *To:* texair@texair.com
> *Subject:* Return refund
>
> To return credit manager,
>
> On 5/18/07 I returned a Concorde battery RG25CX, see attachment. I
> purchased the battery from your company for the RV10 that I was
> building. When I was ready to start my engine on the RV10 it would
> not start it. The battery was obviously defective somehow right
out
> of the box. So I returned the battery to your store in Fort Worth
> and purchased another one, which has worked fine. I was told at
the
> time that I would have to pay for the new battery and then would
> receive credit for the returned battery when it was tested.
>
> After sometime I called into your FW store and asked about the
> progress of the credit. I was told that there would be a charge of
> something like $90 to test the battery and I think I had to pay
the
> shipping charge back to the supplier to have it tested. This
> obviously irritated me and I told the person why don't I just
write
> this experience off to a company with a really bad return policy,
> but that I would be making a posting to the RV blog about my
> experience with the battery and your company. I was told to wait
and
> lets see what can be done.
>
> I did wait and nothing happened so I called back in and was told
> someone in the back had to test it and they had been really busy.
I
> have called in on multiple occasion inquiring on the progress,
> probably 5 or 6 times, and have been told we're getting close. Let
> me explain that the money for me is not the issue. The issue is I
> bought a battery from your company that apparently was defective
out
> of the box and now I'm getting a complete run around on receiving
> back credit for it. Boy if you think this type of customer service
> creates customer loyalty, you must have attended the wrong
business
> school.
>
> I believe I've been really patient on this but the patience
> issue has just about run it's coarse. I thought it only fair to
> inform you that if something isn't forthcoming on this issue very
> soon my intentions are to write a letter to the Better Business
> Bureau regarding your business practices on this type of issue.
> I intend to also post this same complaint and experience on the RV
> builders blog.
>
> Again trust me this is not about the monies, hell if I'm building
> a $250,000 airplane this is small potatoes, but rather that
> you appear to be jerking me around on a return that should have
been
> an exchange at the time of the return. I was told that it's the
> battery company that is the problem. Then I would suggest that
> you drop that line of product from your inventory if you are
unable
> to support it. If you went to a department store and bought an
item
> and then because it was defective took it back, would you accept
the
> explanation that I really can't give you credit until the supplier
> oks it? I think not. If you take on a product and sell it you have
> to take responsibility with the customer for that product and
*_you
> _*deal with the supplier or at least that's how I always ran my
> business. I never had a vendor that had that much control over me,
> it was actually the opposite. If they didn't want to support their
> product they were gone.
>
> Understand this is not a threat but rather I'm just letting you
know
> in advance what my intentions are so you are not surprised when it
> occurs.
>
> Wayne Edgerton
>
> *
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> *
>
> *http://for==================
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 18
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| Subject: | Bad battery/bad experience |
Okay Dan, It's been weeks and weeks since OSH '07 and almost months.
Your flyoff hours were done in record time as I remember. Now we are
all interested In the service ceiling, cruise at 8,500 MSL, climb rate
and fuel consumption numbers. Just how is it going or was there a
problem? This is not like you.
John Cox
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel
R.
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 9:24 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Bad battery/bad experience
<LloydDR@wernerco.com>
The new color, brown, especially works well when wiping up spilled
resin!
Actually, my wife gets all of my vendor shirts, because they always
order small guy sizes and those of us that are Horizontally challenged
do not fit in those girly man sizes....
Dan
N289DT RV10E
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Bad battery/bad experience
Those SteinAir T-Shirts make great grease rags when lubing bearings,
and doing oil changes. ;) (just had to take that dig at Stein
in hopes that he's monitoring the list today)
Actually, if you want a bit of comment to read on dealing with
dealers, some of it related to Stein, see the off-list reply
below that I sent to another builder inquiring about where
to buy servos. It has some thinking points anyway.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Personally, I think you're better calling most any vendor with
the pricing questions. It gives them time to get to know you
and what you may need for the future, and help you decide what
fits you best. Many dealers don't publish their bottom price
on the web, but they'll give them to you as you're building
your avionics packages. Also, Stark, Alex, and SteinAir
have all proven themselves to be great dealers to work
through. Stein especially has proven with that D2AV debacle
that he won't let any customers down. In that particular
case, the people that went through dealers fared better
than those who bought direct. One thing you'll find out
as you buy avionics...dealer relationships are important
to build. There needs to be an understanding of where you
want to go, and they can help you get there in the best
way for you. All of these businesses are very very small in
perspective to the businesses you buy other goods from.
Your business means a lot to them, and they will be trying
hard to satisfy your needs properly. Right now, as you
start buying your AP servos, it's a good time to keep in
mind that you're starting a relationship. Good service
is a two-way street too. When you buy from a dealer,
they'll be very happy to support you. Buy some things
from the mass sellers, like Aircraft Spruce (not that
they're bad), and then just see how good the support is
when you have problems of a technical nature. It doesn't
make a dealer happy when you buy something a discount
Joe's, but then you call them because you can't get it
to work. But, buy that same item from them, and they'll
bend over backwards to make sure you get it working
properly. The dollars you throw at them will come back
to you in the form of support, and considering that you're
not going to be just hauling your plane to the local
avionics guy and handing him a few hundred bucks for
troubleshooting all these little things, you're saving
a fortune by having a good relationship with your
dealer.
As far as Stein goes, I didn't know him from Adam when
I was first buying. I got my servos direct, because I
couldn't imagine that he'd sell them cheaper. And, when
I started looking at avionics, I resisted actually pretty
hard giving him business, because I thought that going
to a dealer was just going to cost me more money than
buying direct or going to ACS. It's actually funny that
I can remember being very cautious talking to him at
first. Turns out he's been invaluable as a dealer, and
turned into a good friend. So yeah, I'm biased for sure,
but the man earned it from me. I would have never
been so happy with my avionics had I gone down my
original path, and not had his guidance along the way.
So yep, call any of the dealers and get to know them,
and then give them your request for quote.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Scott Schmidt wrote:
> The best in this business are Stein Air and Flightline Interiors. If
> every company could replicate their customer service the world would
be
> in harmony.
> You can tell when a supplier loves their job, their product, and the
> community they sell to. Even though Stein gives me crap about not
> wearing his t-shirts during prime photo opportunities at Oshkosh, he
> still is a great supplier.
> Van's does a good job too but you really get a personal experience
> like working with Stein and Abby.
> www.steinair.com <http://www.steinair.com>
> http://www.flightlineinteriors.com/
>
> Scott Schmidt
> scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: pascal <rv10builder@verizon.net>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 7:35:35 AM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Bad battery/bad experience
>
> Looks like you were more patient than I. BBB needs to be advised. This
> will speak louder for others who look at the Tex-Air company and see
> that people have complained than anything else.
>
> On a different perspective and this is related to tools. I had a a
> countersink that broke shortly after using it for the empennage and I
> wrote Brown tools asking if it was normal. Michael Brown himself took
> the e-mail, expressed concern, asked for a picture with the writing so
> he could track the source, than immediately shipped out 2 replacement
> countersinks (different source). There are great support teams out
there
> and I'm sure using this forum and Tim's site we can steer those behind
> us in the right direction. Tim has mentioned SteinAir as a resource
> others other companies.
> Pascal
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* Wayne Edgerton <mailto:wayne.e@grandecom.net>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, September 14, 2007 6:18 AM
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Bad battery/bad experience
>
> I thought I would pass along to you an experience I've had with
> Tex-Air Parts in Fort Worth on a Concorde battery I purchased from
> them. At the beginning of the year I
> purchase a Concorde RG25CX for my plane from Tex-Air but didn't
use
> it until May when I went to start the plane. The battery was DOA
and
> I returned it for exchange. They wouldn't exchange it outright but
> rather I had to buy a new one and they said they would process the
> credit and send it to me. As of today I still haven't received the
> credit. Below is an e-mail I sent them on Aug 25th and I'm still
> waiting for the refund.
>
> I guess what's irritating me is what appears to be their
> unwillingness to refund my money for a bad battery they sold me.
I'm
> just posting this to give others heads up on where you purchase
your
> items and be sure they will stand behind what they sell.
>
> Here is the e-mail I sent them on Aug 25th.
>
> Also I've noticed that when starting the plane with this battery I
> get an initial hesitation, like it's having difficulty turning the
> engine over but when I try the second time it turns over fine. In
> hindsight I might look at the Odyssey PC925 rather than the
Concorde.
>
> Wayne Edgerton N602WT
> a little pissed off at Tex-Air
>
> I WILL FWD YOUR EMAIL TO GENE. HE IS THE ONE THAT KNOWS ABOUT
> YOUR BATTERY. SORRY YOU ARE HAVING SO MUCH TROUBLE.
>
> THANKS,
> DONNA
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Wayne Edgerton [mailto:wayne.e@grandecom.net]
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 25, 2007 6:20 AM
> *To:* texair@texair.com
> *Subject:* Return refund
>
> To return credit manager,
>
> On 5/18/07 I returned a Concorde battery RG25CX, see attachment. I
> purchased the battery from your company for the RV10 that I was
> building. When I was ready to start my engine on the RV10 it would
> not start it. The battery was obviously defective somehow right
out
> of the box. So I returned the battery to your store in Fort Worth
> and purchased another one, which has worked fine. I was told at
the
> time that I would have to pay for the new battery and then would
> receive credit for the returned battery when it was tested.
>
> After sometime I called into your FW store and asked about the
> progress of the credit. I was told that there would be a charge of
> something like $90 to test the battery and I think I had to pay
the
> shipping charge back to the supplier to have it tested. This
> obviously irritated me and I told the person why don't I just
write
> this experience off to a company with a really bad return policy,
> but that I would be making a posting to the RV blog about my
> experience with the battery and your company. I was told to wait
and
> lets see what can be done.
>
> I did wait and nothing happened so I called back in and was told
> someone in the back had to test it and they had been really busy.
I
> have called in on multiple occasion inquiring on the progress,
> probably 5 or 6 times, and have been told we're getting close. Let
> me explain that the money for me is not the issue. The issue is I
> bought a battery from your company that apparently was defective
out
> of the box and now I'm getting a complete run around on receiving
> back credit for it. Boy if you think this type of customer service
> creates customer loyalty, you must have attended the wrong
business
> school.
>
> I believe I've been really patient on this but the patience
> issue has just about run it's coarse. I thought it only fair to
> inform you that if something isn't forthcoming on this issue very
> soon my intentions are to write a letter to the Better Business
> Bureau regarding your business practices on this type of issue.
> I intend to also post this same complaint and experience on the RV
> builders blog.
>
> Again trust me this is not about the monies, hell if I'm building
> a $250,000 airplane this is small potatoes, but rather that
> you appear to be jerking me around on a return that should have
been
> an exchange at the time of the return. I was told that it's the
> battery company that is the problem. Then I would suggest that
> you drop that line of product from your inventory if you are
unable
> to support it. If you went to a department store and bought an
item
> and then because it was defective took it back, would you accept
the
> explanation that I really can't give you credit until the supplier
> oks it? I think not. If you take on a product and sell it you have
> to take responsibility with the customer for that product and
*_you
> _*deal with the supplier or at least that's how I always ran my
> business. I never had a vendor that had that much control over me,
> it was actually the opposite. If they didn't want to support their
> product they were gone.
>
> Understand this is not a threat but rather I'm just letting you
know
> in advance what my intentions are so you are not surprised when it
> occurs.
>
> Wayne Edgerton
>
> *
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> *
>
> *http://for==================
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 19
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| Subject: | Free RV-10 W&B being offered |
Hey, Alpha Omega Aircrafters is offering a free weight and balance to RV-10 owners on September 29 if you call in in time. They are having a little fly in there (KCID) with reps from Lycoming, MT Props, Tru-trak, B&C, Airflow Systems, maybe others. Looks like they are also offering free food. Could be a fun event for RV-10 owners or builders. The number to call for more information is 319-362-9055. The guy's name is Tom. The AOA web site is www.aoaircrafters.com. I attached the flyer to the event also. Check it out.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134435#134435
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rv10_flyer_200.pdf
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: Bad battery/bad experience |
>Horizontally challenged
Oh no... Don't use a politically correct term containing a word
(challenged) that might make someone feel bad...... try this instead:
Gravitationally enhanced! (Hey honey.... I'm /enhanced/!) :)
-Jim 40384
do not archive
Lloyd, Daniel R. wrote:
>
>The new color, brown, especially works well when wiping up spilled
>resin!
>
>Actually, my wife gets all of my vendor shirts, because they always
>order small guy sizes and those of us that are Horizontally challenged
>do not fit in those girly man sizes....
>Dan
>N289DT RV10E
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 11:53 AM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Bad battery/bad experience
>
>
>Those SteinAir T-Shirts make great grease rags when lubing bearings,
>and doing oil changes. ;) (just had to take that dig at Stein
>in hopes that he's monitoring the list today)
>
>Actually, if you want a bit of comment to read on dealing with
>dealers, some of it related to Stein, see the off-list reply
>below that I sent to another builder inquiring about where
>to buy servos. It has some thinking points anyway.
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>Personally, I think you're better calling most any vendor with
>the pricing questions. It gives them time to get to know you
>and what you may need for the future, and help you decide what
>fits you best. Many dealers don't publish their bottom price
>on the web, but they'll give them to you as you're building
>your avionics packages. Also, Stark, Alex, and SteinAir
>have all proven themselves to be great dealers to work
>through. Stein especially has proven with that D2AV debacle
>that he won't let any customers down. In that particular
>case, the people that went through dealers fared better
>than those who bought direct. One thing you'll find out
>as you buy avionics...dealer relationships are important
>to build. There needs to be an understanding of where you
>want to go, and they can help you get there in the best
>way for you. All of these businesses are very very small in
>perspective to the businesses you buy other goods from.
>Your business means a lot to them, and they will be trying
>hard to satisfy your needs properly. Right now, as you
>start buying your AP servos, it's a good time to keep in
>mind that you're starting a relationship. Good service
>is a two-way street too. When you buy from a dealer,
>they'll be very happy to support you. Buy some things
>from the mass sellers, like Aircraft Spruce (not that
>they're bad), and then just see how good the support is
>when you have problems of a technical nature. It doesn't
>make a dealer happy when you buy something a discount
>Joe's, but then you call them because you can't get it
>to work. But, buy that same item from them, and they'll
>bend over backwards to make sure you get it working
>properly. The dollars you throw at them will come back
>to you in the form of support, and considering that you're
>not going to be just hauling your plane to the local
>avionics guy and handing him a few hundred bucks for
>troubleshooting all these little things, you're saving
>a fortune by having a good relationship with your
>dealer.
>
>As far as Stein goes, I didn't know him from Adam when
>I was first buying. I got my servos direct, because I
>couldn't imagine that he'd sell them cheaper. And, when
>I started looking at avionics, I resisted actually pretty
>hard giving him business, because I thought that going
>to a dealer was just going to cost me more money than
>buying direct or going to ACS. It's actually funny that
>I can remember being very cautious talking to him at
>first. Turns out he's been invaluable as a dealer, and
>turned into a good friend. So yeah, I'm biased for sure,
>but the man earned it from me. I would have never
>been so happy with my avionics had I gone down my
>original path, and not had his guidance along the way.
>
>So yep, call any of the dealers and get to know them,
>and then give them your request for quote.
>
>Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>do not archive
>
>
>Scott Schmidt wrote:
>
>
>>The best in this business are Stein Air and Flightline Interiors. If
>>every company could replicate their customer service the world would
>>
>>
>be
>
>
>>in harmony.
>>You can tell when a supplier loves their job, their product, and the
>>community they sell to. Even though Stein gives me crap about not
>>wearing his t-shirts during prime photo opportunities at Oshkosh, he
>>still is a great supplier.
>>Van's does a good job too but you really get a personal experience
>>like working with Stein and Abby.
>>www.steinair.com <http://www.steinair.com>
>>http://www.flightlineinteriors.com/
>>
>>Scott Schmidt
>>scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message ----
>>From: pascal <rv10builder@verizon.net>
>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 7:35:35 AM
>>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Bad battery/bad experience
>>
>>Looks like you were more patient than I. BBB needs to be advised. This
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>will speak louder for others who look at the Tex-Air company and see
>>that people have complained than anything else.
>>
>>On a different perspective and this is related to tools. I had a a
>>countersink that broke shortly after using it for the empennage and I
>>wrote Brown tools asking if it was normal. Michael Brown himself took
>>the e-mail, expressed concern, asked for a picture with the writing so
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>he could track the source, than immediately shipped out 2 replacement
>>countersinks (different source). There are great support teams out
>>
>>
>there
>
>
>>and I'm sure using this forum and Tim's site we can steer those behind
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>us in the right direction. Tim has mentioned SteinAir as a resource
>>others other companies.
>>Pascal
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>
>> *From:* Wayne Edgerton <mailto:wayne.e@grandecom.net>
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> *Sent:* Friday, September 14, 2007 6:18 AM
>> *Subject:* RV10-List: Bad battery/bad experience
>>
>> I thought I would pass along to you an experience I've had with
>> Tex-Air Parts in Fort Worth on a Concorde battery I purchased from
>> them. At the beginning of the year I
>> purchase a Concorde RG25CX for my plane from Tex-Air but didn't
>>
>>
>use
>
>
>> it until May when I went to start the plane. The battery was DOA
>>
>>
>and
>
>
>> I returned it for exchange. They wouldn't exchange it outright but
>> rather I had to buy a new one and they said they would process the
>> credit and send it to me. As of today I still haven't received the
>> credit. Below is an e-mail I sent them on Aug 25th and I'm still
>> waiting for the refund.
>>
>> I guess what's irritating me is what appears to be their
>> unwillingness to refund my money for a bad battery they sold me.
>>
>>
>I'm
>
>
>> just posting this to give others heads up on where you purchase
>>
>>
>your
>
>
>> items and be sure they will stand behind what they sell.
>>
>> Here is the e-mail I sent them on Aug 25th.
>>
>> Also I've noticed that when starting the plane with this battery I
>> get an initial hesitation, like it's having difficulty turning the
>> engine over but when I try the second time it turns over fine. In
>> hindsight I might look at the Odyssey PC925 rather than the
>>
>>
>Concorde.
>
>
>>
>> Wayne Edgerton N602WT
>> a little pissed off at Tex-Air
>>
>> I WILL FWD YOUR EMAIL TO GENE. HE IS THE ONE THAT KNOWS ABOUT
>> YOUR BATTERY. SORRY YOU ARE HAVING SO MUCH TROUBLE.
>>
>> THANKS,
>> DONNA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>> *From:* Wayne Edgerton [mailto:wayne.e@grandecom.net]
>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 25, 2007 6:20 AM
>> *To:* texair@texair.com
>> *Subject:* Return refund
>>
>> To return credit manager,
>>
>> On 5/18/07 I returned a Concorde battery RG25CX, see attachment. I
>> purchased the battery from your company for the RV10 that I was
>> building. When I was ready to start my engine on the RV10 it would
>> not start it. The battery was obviously defective somehow right
>>
>>
>out
>
>
>> of the box. So I returned the battery to your store in Fort Worth
>> and purchased another one, which has worked fine. I was told at
>>
>>
>the
>
>
>> time that I would have to pay for the new battery and then would
>> receive credit for the returned battery when it was tested.
>>
>> After sometime I called into your FW store and asked about the
>> progress of the credit. I was told that there would be a charge of
>> something like $90 to test the battery and I think I had to pay
>>
>>
>the
>
>
>> shipping charge back to the supplier to have it tested. This
>> obviously irritated me and I told the person why don't I just
>>
>>
>write
>
>
>> this experience off to a company with a really bad return policy,
>> but that I would be making a posting to the RV blog about my
>> experience with the battery and your company. I was told to wait
>>
>>
>and
>
>
>> lets see what can be done.
>>
>> I did wait and nothing happened so I called back in and was told
>> someone in the back had to test it and they had been really busy.
>>
>>
>I
>
>
>> have called in on multiple occasion inquiring on the progress,
>> probably 5 or 6 times, and have been told we're getting close. Let
>> me explain that the money for me is not the issue. The issue is I
>> bought a battery from your company that apparently was defective
>>
>>
>out
>
>
>> of the box and now I'm getting a complete run around on receiving
>> back credit for it. Boy if you think this type of customer service
>> creates customer loyalty, you must have attended the wrong
>>
>>
>business
>
>
>> school.
>>
>> I believe I've been really patient on this but the patience
>> issue has just about run it's coarse. I thought it only fair to
>> inform you that if something isn't forthcoming on this issue very
>> soon my intentions are to write a letter to the Better Business
>> Bureau regarding your business practices on this type of issue.
>> I intend to also post this same complaint and experience on the RV
>> builders blog.
>>
>> Again trust me this is not about the monies, hell if I'm building
>> a $250,000 airplane this is small potatoes, but rather that
>> you appear to be jerking me around on a return that should have
>>
>>
>been
>
>
>> an exchange at the time of the return. I was told that it's the
>> battery company that is the problem. Then I would suggest that
>> you drop that line of product from your inventory if you are
>>
>>
>unable
>
>
>> to support it. If you went to a department store and bought an
>>
>>
>item
>
>
>> and then because it was defective took it back, would you accept
>>
>>
>the
>
>
>> explanation that I really can't give you credit until the supplier
>> oks it? I think not. If you take on a product and sell it you have
>> to take responsibility with the customer for that product and
>>
>>
>*_you
>
>
>> _*deal with the supplier or at least that's how I always ran my
>> business. I never had a vendor that had that much control over me,
>> it was actually the opposite. If they didn't want to support their
>> product they were gone.
>>
>> Understand this is not a threat but rather I'm just letting you
>>
>>
>know
>
>
>> in advance what my intentions are so you are not surprised when it
>> occurs.
>>
>> Wayne Edgerton
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics
>.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>
>> *
>>
>>*http://for==================
>>
>>*
>>
>>
>>*
>>
>>
>>*
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | glare shield paint |
What are folks using to paint / cover their glare shields? Someone mentioned "Plasticoat"
(spelling?) works well, but I couldn't find mention of it at Spruce.
Thanks,
Jay
Is glass work better than metal work?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134452#134452
Message 22
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| Subject: | glare shield paint |
I got the stuff Cleveland sells. Looks great.
Rene' Felker
N423CF
40322
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jayb
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 2:07 PM
Subject: RV10-List: glare shield paint
What are folks using to paint / cover their glare shields? Someone mentioned
"Plasticoat" (spelling?) works well, but I couldn't find mention of it at
Spruce.
Thanks,
Jay
Is glass work better than metal work?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134452#134452
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: glare shield paint |
Plasti-kote is rattle can paint that's available through auto part stores.
http://www.plastikote.com/plastikote/index.jsp
Bob #40105
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134486#134486
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT. |
A friend reported he had a 406 unit self activate while the aircraft was in
hangar with no one around. I don't know how FAA will handle overdue and
reports of aircraft hearing ELT, but I would expect they would be relaying
to USAF expecting normal SAR treatment.
On 9/14/07, GRANSCOTT@aol.com <GRANSCOTT@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Michael...I know AOPA is fighting this with good cause for us...but also
> be aware that the USAF informed the CAP folks that they will no be accepting
> the old 121.5 code for SAR's in the future. The will only be responding
> to the 406 series for SAR's...I don't know how they are going to handle a
> physical report for an over due aircraft, though.
>
> When you read on these ELT's you'd believe they are all fail safe which
> they are not. CAP still finds down aircraft via search in air and on ground
> besides electronic methods...but it's not so immediate, though.
>
> Patrick
>
>
> ------------------------------
> See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: WSI AV-300 delivered |
Today I got my WSI AV-300 activated and loading weather on
my Chelton screens. I did this write-up about the experience
in hopes that it can help answer questions for anyone else going through
the upgrade. Everything seems to be in order, so tomorrow will be
a small 200nm x/c flight to test it all out.
Here's the write-up:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20070912/index.html
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
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