Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:09 AM - Re: Fuel Tank Calibration Problem (Dynon FliteDek 180) (Jesse Saint)
2. 07:34 AM - Russel Davis (Fred Williams, M.D.)
3. 07:48 AM - Re: RV-10 Incident (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
4. 08:01 AM - Re: Fiberglass and antenna placement (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
5. 08:30 AM - Re: Russel Davis (Rick Sked)
6. 08:42 AM - Re: Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch (Tim Olson)
7. 09:18 AM - Re: GPS antennae (John W. Cox)
8. 10:33 AM - Re: Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch (James Hein)
9. 10:38 AM - Re: Fiberglass and antenna placement (James Hein)
10. 10:45 AM - Fred Williams/ Hand injury (Fred Williams, M.D.)
11. 10:58 AM - Re: Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch (Tim Olson)
12. 11:26 AM - Re: Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch (James Hein)
13. 11:55 AM - Re: Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
14. 12:51 PM - Re: Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch (Robin Marks)
15. 01:10 PM - Re: Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch (gary)
16. 01:14 PM - Re: Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch (Rick Sked)
17. 01:36 PM - Re: Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch (John Dunne)
18. 01:58 PM - Air Force Completes Transition of GPS Fleet to Upgraded Control System (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
19. 02:11 PM - Re: Air Force Completes Transition of GPS Fleet to Upgraded Control System (John Jessen)
20. 02:20 PM - Re: Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch (orchidman)
21. 03:16 PM - Re: Re: Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch (ddddsp1@juno.com)
22. 03:34 PM - Re: Re: Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch (James Hein)
23. 04:00 PM - Re: Oil Canning (McGANN, Ron)
24. 04:09 PM - Re: Oil Canning (Phillips, Jack)
25. 04:28 PM - Rivethead-aero (Vernon Smith)
26. 04:36 PM - Re: Re: Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch (John Jessen)
27. 04:52 PM - Re: Oil Canning (Dave Leikam)
28. 04:56 PM - Aircraft renters insurance (Dave Leikam)
29. 05:02 PM - Re: Oil Canning (Jeff Carpenter)
30. 05:20 PM - Re: Oil Canning (EFDsteve@aol.com)
31. 06:05 PM - Re: Aircraft renters insurance (Dj Merrill)
32. 06:08 PM - Re: Rivethead-aero (Kirk Groves)
33. 07:08 PM - Re: Oil Canning (DLIUDVINAITIS@aol.com)
34. 07:13 PM - Re: Rivethead-aero (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
35. 07:26 PM - Re: Rivethead-aero (John Lenhardt)
36. 07:43 PM - Re: Oil Canning (McGANN, Ron)
37. 08:13 PM - Re: Oil Canning (Tim Olson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Calibration Problem (Dynon FliteDek 180) |
The first thing to try would be to see what resistance you have to ground
on the lead wire. It is possible that you don't have the right wire
connected to the sender. If you read a resistance at one level, then add
fuel, the resistance should change if the float is working (or the coat
hangar trick is a good idea). It should start changing almost immediately
if the float is installed correctly, as it ready accurately usually from 0
to 24 or 26 gallons, at which time the float is all the way at the top of
the tank and can't read the last 4-6 gallons.
If you do get resistance changes when you check at the float, then make
sure you have the right wire going to the Dynon (I can't remember which
pin it is right now, but will be in your installation manual) and make
sure you have continuity from the sender end of the wire to the pin in the
back of the connector. If this is shorted that would cause it not to
work. Also, if you somehow have the wires switched so the left is going
to the right and vice versa, then you would also be getting this problem
most likely, since the Dynon is specifically reading one pin for left and
the other for right. If this is the case, you can either re-route those
two wires or just switch them in the connector, depending on how "buttoned
up" your wiring is.
Before draining the tank and trying anything else, I would just test the
resistance as you add fuel (or even as you rock the wings as the float
will move if there is fuel in the wings when you rock it). You could do
it just by jacking up one wing to fake the float out in case you end up
having to remove all of the fuel you have put in already and don't want to
add more for this reason.
Hope this helps.
GOD BLESS!
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
352-427-0285
Albert Gardner wrote:
>
>
> OK guys. I could use a little help here. I tried to calibrate my fuel
> gages
> tonight but no joy. I have SW resistive floats and as I fill the tanks,
> the
> Dynon system says the readings from the tank doesn't change as gas is
> added.
> It's possible that the float is stuck, the wiring is incorrect, the Dynon
> is
> bad or not setup correctly, or maybe the SW gage is bad. However, both
> tanks
> act the same. I'm trying to remember how the gage is wired internally.
> There
> is only 1 screw on the outside of the tank, that's probably the center tap
> of the variable resistor attached to the float. How is the thing grounded
> internally? I can't remember what it looks like inside. Does anyone have a
> picture of their gage before it was installed in the tank they can share
> with me? Did we have to ground the gage internally and I forgot to do
> that?
> Thanks in advance,
> Albert Gardner
> Yuma, AZ
> N991RV
>
>
Message 2
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Everybody pray for Russ. (Texas Tech RV 10) He had an accident this
weekend and his right hand contacted a prop. (helping a friend with his
airplane) Lost at least 1/2 of his right index finger and had to have
surgery. The email stated he would post details when he is feeling
better. He stated he was out of the hospital and back home. Requested
not to get a bunch of emails as he probably wouldn't feel up to
answering all of them I wrote to Russ this weekend to find out how he
did his Kevlar panel.
Fred Williams
40515
Message 3
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Sorry Dave, should have been clearer. I don't lump you into the same "unde
r the radar" build for hire shops. My apologies.
Michael
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 5:22 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Incident
Uhh...
I understand the point you're making but I have to point out that pride in
workmanship and profit are not exclusive.
We've all seen some pretty poorly built amateur-only projects.
The one doing the hiring has final control over workmanship, via the checkb
ook if nothing else. I imagine the buyer got what she wanted. What her ex
pectations were we'll probably never know.
do not archive
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com<http://www.AirCraftersLLC.com>
40394 (mine), started the engine last weekend, should be flying before Octo
ber.
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 12:35 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Incident
That's the problem with build for hire. Profit outweighs pride in workmans
hip.
Do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Fiberglass and antenna placement |
You also need to figure out how to design a mechanism that will keep the lowest
drag profile aligned with the relative wind.
I'm still trying to work out how to form a singularity to power an inertial dampener
and gravity drive. Then I can bolt a snow plow to the front if I want and
pull 50G's. Heh.
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fiberglass and antenna placement
And the drag coefficent associated with the forward cant must also be considered
as well as gyroscopic precession due to the drag in the gimble, unless your
going with magnetic suspension of the ring then your precession may not be significant
given the fuel onboard and the total time from alignemnt to shut down
after stopping to pee. lol....
Rick S.
40185
please do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 3:15:20 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fiberglass and antenna placement
Don't forget the five degree forward cant to compensate for your
additional forward airspeed with the BPE Cold Air/Davis Induction
System.
Thanks for playing.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fiberglass and antenna placement
OK, I just redesigned my antenna installation : atop a 5 foot tall
pylon, made of spaceage transpardium mounted in the exact center/top
point of the cabin cover, equipped with a gyro stabilized gimble that
ensures stability of the antenna in all unusual attitudes.
I'm out of here
John W. Cox wrote:
<johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>
> Now you guys are getting with the program. Coax length, inline
> connectors, combiners, splitters and fiberglas thickness equate to db
> signal losses.
>
> John #600
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 3:48 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fiberglass and antenna placement
>
>
> OK Tim, I get it, GPS signals are weak. But the question as to how
much
> attenuation is attributable to the Fiberglass is not addressed
anywhere
> in your clips, and still remains. The specified/recommended Commant
> Antenna for the HeadsUP XM Weather receiver (used in Avidyne
> installations in certified Cirrus 's) comes configured with a gain of
> 30-34 db. The receiver itself is preset to expect a gain of 22db
> (+/-2db). The installation manual actually _recommends/requires_ some
> additional attenuation and provides a formula for figuring the amount
> available through several different types and lengths (feet & yards)
of
>
> coax. Turns out that you need quite a bit of coax to get it down to
the
>
> 22db range (17-58 ' depending on type of coax) Alternatively you may
> use a DC bias passing attenuator in line with the cable itself. (my
> choice). The only caution from the mfg about placement was to keep it
> away from transmitting antennas, (min 36's").
>
> If, as James suggests, the fiberglass (1/16 - 3/32") of the cowl is
not
> an issue in signal loss, and there are no other blocking restrictions,
> then why criticize someone who wants to make the installation
> cosmetically attractive as well? the vast majority of the 396/496
> Garmins w/ weather are flying with glareshield mounted antennas with
the
>
> same issues.
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> 'Its all done....Its just not put together'
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
>
>>
>> I've always taken antenna reception quality as THE #1 reason to
choose
>> an antenna or mounting location....especially important if you're
>> shooting for the same quality as a "certified" installation. I never
>> understood why as experimental builders, who build planes that we
>>
> pride
>
>> as being built "better than factory", anyone would build absolutely
>> sub-standard to all of the advice by manufacturers regarding their
>> installation requirements....on purpose, no less. The fact that
>>
> someone
>
>> would bother to hem and haw about a WAAS GPS antenna no less, really
>> makes me wonder, as the amount of drag off a small wart of an antenna
>> is way less than if you were talking about a Nav or Com antenna, and
>>
> the
>
>> signal you're trying to receive is EXTREMELY faint in comparison.
>>
>> Here's something I dug up recently:
>>
>>
>
http://www.homelandsecurity.org/bulletin/Dual%20Benefit/warner_gps_spoof
> ing.html
>
>> "The GPS signal strength measured at the surface of the Earth is
about
>>
>
>
>> -160dBw (1 x 10-16 watts), which is roughly equivalent to viewing a
>> 25-watt light bulb from a distance of 10,000 miles. This weak signal
>> can easily be blocked by destroying or shielding the GPS receiver's
>> antenna. The GPS signal can also be effectively jammed by a signal of
>> a similar frequency but greater strength. "
>>
>> So then think about the many electrical noise causing things in an
>> airplane....probably one of the loudest of which would be the spark
>> plugs and ignition system. And then to choose to actually mount
>> the antennas CLOSER to those items? I mean, I've seen TV's get
>> scrambled signals when a snowmobile drove by the house years
>> ago....not that the plane is going to be as poor, but we're
>> *really* talking some tiny electrical signals with GPS...and sorry,
>>
> but
>
>> if someone even thinks they're going to pass by on flying ILS and VOR
>> approaches and instead favor trusting a WAAS approach, why sacrifice?
>> If they're going to sacrifice that, then why bother to look at the
>> actual LPV-spec GPS units in the first place....just fly them with
>> an autopilot or EFIS driven by a 396. (and no, I'm not REALLY
>> endorsing that thinking)
>>
>>
>> http://www.nap.edu/html/embedded_everywhere/ch2_b8.html
>> "What makes GPS reception difficult is that radio frequency (RF)
>> signals from the satellites are very weak. Special coding is used to
>> allow receivers to detect these weak signals, but even with coding,
>> GPS receivers generally work only if they have a direct line of sight
>> to the satellites. Performance inside buildings or in an area covered
>> by foliage is generally quite poor"
>>
>> http://www.wowinfo.com/gps/gps/chapter2n3.htm
>> "This is an extremely low-powered system-so low-powered, in fact,
that
>>
>
>
>> the signal is really buried in the natural background radio noise.
The
>>
>
>
>> receiver recovers this weak signal from the satellites by using
>> spread-spectrum communication technology, a very tricky concept in
>> communication theory that works by means of pseudo-random codes."
>>
>> http://www.dot.nd.gov/manuals/surveymanual/gps-operations.pdf
>> "You'd think that with all of these radio waves raining down on us
>> from dozens of satellites in space
>> we'd all glow in the dark. Actually, the strength of the GPS signal
is
>>
>
>
>> very small, equivalent to the tail
>> light of a car seen from 2,500 kilometers away-halfway across the
>> U.S.! Weaker, in fact, than the
>> ordinary background radio noise that's all around us all of the
time."
>>
>>
>> So then thinking about laying it underneath fiberglass, my thought
is:
>> "Well, if fiberglass is transparent to GPS, then how many layers are
>> transparent to the GPS. Can you put it under 1/16", 1/8", 1", 5"?
>> At what point do you decide you've hidden the GPS from it enough?"
>>
>> And, if it's under a cowl, or at some other point not mounted
>> horizontally with a full view of the sky in all directions, then
>> which of the available satellites that are now unavailable are you
>> happy to just toss aside from shadowing due to poor mounting? So
>> some of them aren't worth seeing.
>>
>> I understand the love of building a cosmetically pleasing airplane,
>>
> but
>
>> to sacrifice life-saving avionics signals really makes me wonder.
And
>> nothing against Dan Checkoway, but it's amazing how one person's good
>> experience with a poor mounting choice can spread to such a universal
>> acceptance of the idea. It might be better to bounce mounting
>> and location questions off the antenna makers and companies like
>>
> Garmin
>
>> and see how far they're willing to stick their neck out with an
>>
> answer.
>
>> If it were harmless, they'd have no reason to avoid giving the
advice.
>> I've had many phone calls to Comant and questions to other antenna
>> makers throughout the build, which in the end mostly just led me to
>> try to be as "conventional" as possible to attempt the same
>> reliability as the certified planes could have.
>>
>> Now, if someone was building a VFR only airplane, I'd say "heck yeah,
>> may as well give it a try".
>>
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>>
>>
>>
>> Deems Davis wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John W. Cox wrote:
>>>
>>> . Fiberglass is not transparent
>>> to RF it creates a false positive and measurable signal loss. It is
>>> only translucent with a clearly diminished performance. It also
>>>
> requires
>
>>> your output amp to work significantly harder leading to earlier
>>> potential failure and often a loss of valuable communication when
you
>>> need it most - rain fade, cloud obscuration and turbulence
>>>
>>> John, can you elaborate or point me to a reference source. I have
>>> always heard that fiberglass is transparent wrt antennas. If there
is
>>>
>
>
>>> a loss due to the fiberglass how big of a loss is it? and what is a
>>> 'false positive'? Does the fiberglass affect all spectrums equally?
>>> Both of the antennas in my case are receive only and are satellite
>>> based systems.
>>>
>>> Deems Davis # 406
>>> 'Its all done....Its just not put together'
>>> http://deemsrv10.com/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Russel Davis |
Russ? or Stein? Stein had an accident I don't believe it was Russ.
Rick S.
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred@suddenlinkmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 7:33:11 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Russel Davis
Everybody pray for Russ. (Texas Tech RV 10) He had an accident this
weekend and his right hand contacted a prop. (helping a friend with his
airplane) Lost at least 1/2 of his right index finger and had to have
surgery. The email stated he would post details when he is feeling
better. He stated he was out of the hospital and back home. Requested
not to get a bunch of emails as he probably wouldn't feel up to
answering all of them I wrote to Russ this weekend to find out how he
did his Kevlar panel.
Fred Williams
40515
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch |
Fred,
I *think* you're wrong, I just called Russ, to verify his
10 digits. ;)
I've talked to Stein a bit the past couple days....he's been
a bit laid up after chopping off half his index finger in a
prop. Something about wanting to verify the tach by how
hard the prop hits the finger or some scientific test like
that. <g> His spirits are as good as they can be, given the
event. Below I'll link his post on VAF to try to at least announce
the happening.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?p=155476#post155476
Hi All,
I figured that this soon will filter out in the rumor mill because
enough people already know, so I'd make a quick post personally to let
you know what is going on.
This weekend I was helping a friend get his rotax powered quicksilver
running and had a rather unfortuneate and messy accident (don't worry
too much, it wasn't fatal).
Long story short. My right hand ended up contacting the running prop
(sharp nylon 3 bladed ultra prop).....as you can well imagine the prop
ended up much better than my right hand - which didn't fare too
well....but in the end not as bad as it could have been. The prop has a
tiny red stained nick on it from one of my bones, and we had to hunt (in
the grass of our runway) for the severed flesh if mine, but we did ok
and had everything on ice before heading to the hospital,
I'm home from the hospital now, had orthopedic surgery from a hand/upper
extremity specailist and am going to be fine, albeit with 1/2 less of a
missing digit on my right hand than I had last week at this time. They
were unable to use the last half of my index finger - but the rest
should be ok.......we hope!
Please bear with me while I'm slow to type (noy very fast with only 1
usable hand) and the other not feeling too good right now. I'll be
working reduced hours this week due to more appointments with the
surgeon, so to those of you waiting for "stuff" from me personally, your
patience is appreciated. I would kindly ask that you not deluge me with
lots of personal calls or emails because I just simply cannot respond
right now. I'm pretty doped up, really tired and in a wee bit of pain.
After I'm feeling a bit better I'll post a long, detailed (and probably
disturbing) account of the accident - becase that's all it is. After
having a dog bite my running prop on the RV some years ago, and sitting
in a cockpit when another old guy got hit by a prop many years before, I
treat them like bombs.....but it still happenend to me, so PLEASE BE
EXTRA carefull. I'm pretty carefull and it still happened in less than a
blink of an eye.
I can't overstate how emotionally and physically painfull of an
experience this is. I'm going to be fine in the end and won't be much
worse for it, but it's still a miserable thing to deal with. The silver
lining is I'm alive, didn't lose a hand or arm, and have most of my
fingers back. It's embarrassing, humiliating and painful to type this
note, but it needs to be done.
Thanks to all who have already sent their supprt, and I sincerely
appreciate everyone's patience while I get through this. I'm still
working as able, just reduced hours and reduced email responses. Again,
thanks for everything from such a great community of people, many of you
I'm proud to call friends,
Best Regards, God Bless and BE SAFE!
Stein Bruch
RV6, Minneapolis
Fred Williams, M.D. wrote:
> <drfred@suddenlinkmail.com>
>
> Everybody pray for Russ. (Texas Tech RV 10) He had an accident this
> weekend and his right hand contacted a prop. (helping a friend with his
> airplane) Lost at least 1/2 of his right index finger and had to have
> surgery. The email stated he would post details when he is feeling
> better. He stated he was out of the hospital and back home. Requested
> not to get a bunch of emails as he probably wouldn't feel up to
> answering all of them I wrote to Russ this weekend to find out how he
> did his Kevlar panel.
>
> Fred Williams
>
> 40515
>
Message 7
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Pages 708-710 on the electronic copy.
AC 43.13-2A Chapter 3, Antenna Installations, Paragraphs 36-38 which is
in the archives as well.
D= Drag
A= Area (frontal area of the antenna)
V= Velocity (which for Deems will be higher)
The resultant is listed as drag in pounds.
D=.000327 * A * V(squared)
Most manufacturers will give you the area calculation.
John Cox
40600
Do not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred
Williams, M.D.
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: GPS antennae
<drfred@suddenlinkmail.com>
You did that just to make me open AC 43.13, didn't you.........
Dr Fred.
John W. Cox wrote:
<johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>
> Mathematically measurable using the formula found in the AC43.13.
> Insignificant in the grand scheme of ROP/LOP operations.
>
> John W. Cox 40600
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred
> Williams, M.D.
> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 8:53 AM
> To: RV 10
> Subject: RV10-List: GPS antennae
>
> <drfred@suddenlinkmail.com>
>
> Other than the "unsightly wart" appearance, how much drag is there in
a
> GPS antennae on the top back of the canopy? Is there a measurable
> speed difference?
>
> Fred Williams
> 40515
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch |
So..... He can't give any more helpful pointers? <ducks>
Look on the bright side; You'll save 10% off manicure prices!
We had one guy at work who crushed a finger in a log splitter last year.
What did his coworkers do?
They placed these stickers all over his office upon his return:
How's that for sympathy!
Hope you had a good laugh from this email Stein! Get well soon!
-Jim 40384
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Fred,
>
> I *think* you're wrong, I just called Russ, to verify his
> 10 digits. ;)
>
> I've talked to Stein a bit the past couple days....he's been
> a bit laid up after chopping off half his index finger in a
> prop. Something about wanting to verify the tach by how
> hard the prop hits the finger or some scientific test like
> that. <g> His spirits are as good as they can be, given the
> event. Below I'll link his post on VAF to try to at least announce
> the happening.
>
> http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?p=155476#post155476
>
> Hi All,
>
> I figured that this soon will filter out in the rumor mill because
> enough people already know, so I'd make a quick post personally to let
> you know what is going on.
>
> This weekend I was helping a friend get his rotax powered quicksilver
> running and had a rather unfortuneate and messy accident (don't worry
> too much, it wasn't fatal).
>
> Long story short. My right hand ended up contacting the running prop
> (sharp nylon 3 bladed ultra prop).....as you can well imagine the prop
> ended up much better than my right hand - which didn't fare too
> well....but in the end not as bad as it could have been. The prop has
> a tiny red stained nick on it from one of my bones, and we had to hunt
> (in the grass of our runway) for the severed flesh if mine, but we did
> ok and had everything on ice before heading to the hospital,
>
> I'm home from the hospital now, had orthopedic surgery from a
> hand/upper extremity specailist and am going to be fine, albeit with
> 1/2 less of a missing digit on my right hand than I had last week at
> this time. They were unable to use the last half of my index finger -
> but the rest should be ok.......we hope!
>
> Please bear with me while I'm slow to type (noy very fast with only 1
> usable hand) and the other not feeling too good right now. I'll be
> working reduced hours this week due to more appointments with the
> surgeon, so to those of you waiting for "stuff" from me personally,
> your patience is appreciated. I would kindly ask that you not deluge
> me with lots of personal calls or emails because I just simply cannot
> respond right now. I'm pretty doped up, really tired and in a wee bit
> of pain.
>
> After I'm feeling a bit better I'll post a long, detailed (and
> probably disturbing) account of the accident - becase that's all it
> is. After having a dog bite my running prop on the RV some years ago,
> and sitting in a cockpit when another old guy got hit by a prop many
> years before, I treat them like bombs.....but it still happenend to
> me, so PLEASE BE EXTRA carefull. I'm pretty carefull and it still
> happened in less than a blink of an eye.
>
> I can't overstate how emotionally and physically painfull of an
> experience this is. I'm going to be fine in the end and won't be much
> worse for it, but it's still a miserable thing to deal with. The
> silver lining is I'm alive, didn't lose a hand or arm, and have most
> of my fingers back. It's embarrassing, humiliating and painful to type
> this note, but it needs to be done.
>
> Thanks to all who have already sent their supprt, and I sincerely
> appreciate everyone's patience while I get through this. I'm still
> working as able, just reduced hours and reduced email responses.
> Again, thanks for everything from such a great community of people,
> many of you I'm proud to call friends,
>
> Best Regards, God Bless and BE SAFE!
> Stein Bruch
> RV6, Minneapolis
>
>
> Fred Williams, M.D. wrote:
>> <drfred@suddenlinkmail.com>
>>
>> Everybody pray for Russ. (Texas Tech RV 10) He had an accident this
>> weekend and his right hand contacted a prop. (helping a friend with
>> his airplane) Lost at least 1/2 of his right index finger and had to
>> have surgery. The email stated he would post details when he is
>> feeling better. He stated he was out of the hospital and back home.
>> Requested not to get a bunch of emails as he probably wouldn't feel
>> up to answering all of them I wrote to Russ this weekend to find
>> out how he did his Kevlar panel.
>>
>> Fred Williams
>>
>> 40515
>>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass and antenna placement |
I think my antennas might cause a bit too much drag:
The vertical antenna on the top is a tri-band 2m, 6m, and 70cm and
*encased in fiberglass* (15ft. tall); The main antenna is a log periodic
13-33MHz - As for scale, the boom length is just over 30 feet, longest
element is 32 feet.
The plane? Oh yeah.... I should get back to that.... :)
-Jim 40384 do not archive.
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
>
> You also need to figure out how to design a mechanism that will keep the lowest
drag profile aligned with the relative wind.
>
> I'm still trying to work out how to form a singularity to power an inertial dampener
and gravity drive. Then I can bolt a snow plow to the front if I want
and pull 50G's. Heh.
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked
> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 6:12 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fiberglass and antenna placement
>
>
> And the drag coefficent associated with the forward cant must also be considered
as well as gyroscopic precession due to the drag in the gimble, unless your
going with magnetic suspension of the ring then your precession may not be significant
given the fuel onboard and the total time from alignemnt to shut down
after stopping to pee. lol....
>
> Rick S.
> 40185
> please do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 3:15:20 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fiberglass and antenna placement
>
>
> Don't forget the five degree forward cant to compensate for your
> additional forward airspeed with the BPE Cold Air/Davis Induction
> System.
>
> Thanks for playing.
>
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 5:56 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fiberglass and antenna placement
>
>
> OK, I just redesigned my antenna installation : atop a 5 foot tall
> pylon, made of spaceage transpardium mounted in the exact center/top
> point of the cabin cover, equipped with a gyro stabilized gimble that
> ensures stability of the antenna in all unusual attitudes.
>
> I'm out of here
>
> John W. Cox wrote:
>
>>
> <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>
>> Now you guys are getting with the program. Coax length, inline
>> connectors, combiners, splitters and fiberglas thickness equate to db
>> signal losses.
>>
>> John #600
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
>> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 3:48 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fiberglass and antenna placement
>>
>>
>> OK Tim, I get it, GPS signals are weak. But the question as to how
>>
> much
>
>> attenuation is attributable to the Fiberglass is not addressed
>>
> anywhere
>
>> in your clips, and still remains. The specified/recommended Commant
>> Antenna for the HeadsUP XM Weather receiver (used in Avidyne
>> installations in certified Cirrus 's) comes configured with a gain of
>> 30-34 db. The receiver itself is preset to expect a gain of 22db
>> (+/-2db). The installation manual actually _recommends/requires_ some
>> additional attenuation and provides a formula for figuring the amount
>> available through several different types and lengths (feet & yards)
>>
> of
>
>> coax. Turns out that you need quite a bit of coax to get it down to
>>
> the
>
>> 22db range (17-58 ' depending on type of coax) Alternatively you may
>> use a DC bias passing attenuator in line with the cable itself. (my
>> choice). The only caution from the mfg about placement was to keep it
>> away from transmitting antennas, (min 36's").
>>
>> If, as James suggests, the fiberglass (1/16 - 3/32") of the cowl is
>>
> not
>
>> an issue in signal loss, and there are no other blocking restrictions,
>>
>
>
>> then why criticize someone who wants to make the installation
>> cosmetically attractive as well? the vast majority of the 396/496
>> Garmins w/ weather are flying with glareshield mounted antennas with
>>
> the
>
>> same issues.
>>
>> Deems Davis # 406
>> 'Its all done....Its just not put together'
>> http://deemsrv10.com/
>>
>> Tim Olson wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I've always taken antenna reception quality as THE #1 reason to
>>>
> choose
>
>>> an antenna or mounting location....especially important if you're
>>> shooting for the same quality as a "certified" installation. I never
>>> understood why as experimental builders, who build planes that we
>>>
>>>
>> pride
>>
>>
>>> as being built "better than factory", anyone would build absolutely
>>> sub-standard to all of the advice by manufacturers regarding their
>>> installation requirements....on purpose, no less. The fact that
>>>
>>>
>> someone
>>
>>
>>> would bother to hem and haw about a WAAS GPS antenna no less, really
>>> makes me wonder, as the amount of drag off a small wart of an antenna
>>> is way less than if you were talking about a Nav or Com antenna, and
>>>
>>>
>> the
>>
>>
>>> signal you're trying to receive is EXTREMELY faint in comparison.
>>>
>>> Here's something I dug up recently:
>>>
>>>
>>>
> http://www.homelandsecurity.org/bulletin/Dual%20Benefit/warner_gps_spoof
>
>> ing.html
>>
>>
>>> "The GPS signal strength measured at the surface of the Earth is
>>>
> about
>
>>
>>> -160dBw (1 x 10-16 watts), which is roughly equivalent to viewing a
>>> 25-watt light bulb from a distance of 10,000 miles. This weak signal
>>> can easily be blocked by destroying or shielding the GPS receiver's
>>> antenna. The GPS signal can also be effectively jammed by a signal of
>>>
>
>
>>> a similar frequency but greater strength. "
>>>
>>> So then think about the many electrical noise causing things in an
>>> airplane....probably one of the loudest of which would be the spark
>>> plugs and ignition system. And then to choose to actually mount
>>> the antennas CLOSER to those items? I mean, I've seen TV's get
>>> scrambled signals when a snowmobile drove by the house years
>>> ago....not that the plane is going to be as poor, but we're
>>> *really* talking some tiny electrical signals with GPS...and sorry,
>>>
>>>
>> but
>>
>>
>>> if someone even thinks they're going to pass by on flying ILS and VOR
>>> approaches and instead favor trusting a WAAS approach, why sacrifice?
>>> If they're going to sacrifice that, then why bother to look at the
>>> actual LPV-spec GPS units in the first place....just fly them with
>>> an autopilot or EFIS driven by a 396. (and no, I'm not REALLY
>>> endorsing that thinking)
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.nap.edu/html/embedded_everywhere/ch2_b8.html
>>> "What makes GPS reception difficult is that radio frequency (RF)
>>> signals from the satellites are very weak. Special coding is used to
>>> allow receivers to detect these weak signals, but even with coding,
>>> GPS receivers generally work only if they have a direct line of sight
>>>
>
>
>>> to the satellites. Performance inside buildings or in an area covered
>>>
>
>
>>> by foliage is generally quite poor"
>>>
>>> http://www.wowinfo.com/gps/gps/chapter2n3.htm
>>> "This is an extremely low-powered system-so low-powered, in fact,
>>>
> that
>
>>
>>> the signal is really buried in the natural background radio noise.
>>>
> The
>
>>
>>> receiver recovers this weak signal from the satellites by using
>>> spread-spectrum communication technology, a very tricky concept in
>>> communication theory that works by means of pseudo-random codes."
>>>
>>> http://www.dot.nd.gov/manuals/surveymanual/gps-operations.pdf
>>> "You'd think that with all of these radio waves raining down on us
>>> from dozens of satellites in space
>>> we'd all glow in the dark. Actually, the strength of the GPS signal
>>>
> is
>
>>
>>> very small, equivalent to the tail
>>> light of a car seen from 2,500 kilometers away-halfway across the
>>> U.S.! Weaker, in fact, than the
>>> ordinary background radio noise that's all around us all of the
>>>
> time."
>
>>> So then thinking about laying it underneath fiberglass, my thought
>>>
> is:
>
>>> "Well, if fiberglass is transparent to GPS, then how many layers are
>>> transparent to the GPS. Can you put it under 1/16", 1/8", 1", 5"?
>>> At what point do you decide you've hidden the GPS from it enough?"
>>>
>>> And, if it's under a cowl, or at some other point not mounted
>>> horizontally with a full view of the sky in all directions, then
>>> which of the available satellites that are now unavailable are you
>>> happy to just toss aside from shadowing due to poor mounting? So
>>> some of them aren't worth seeing.
>>>
>>> I understand the love of building a cosmetically pleasing airplane,
>>>
>>>
>> but
>>
>>
>>> to sacrifice life-saving avionics signals really makes me wonder.
>>>
> And
>
>>> nothing against Dan Checkoway, but it's amazing how one person's good
>>> experience with a poor mounting choice can spread to such a universal
>>> acceptance of the idea. It might be better to bounce mounting
>>> and location questions off the antenna makers and companies like
>>>
>>>
>> Garmin
>>
>>
>>> and see how far they're willing to stick their neck out with an
>>>
>>>
>> answer.
>>
>>
>>> If it were harmless, they'd have no reason to avoid giving the
>>>
> advice.
>
>>> I've had many phone calls to Comant and questions to other antenna
>>> makers throughout the build, which in the end mostly just led me to
>>> try to be as "conventional" as possible to attempt the same
>>> reliability as the certified planes could have.
>>>
>>> Now, if someone was building a VFR only airplane, I'd say "heck yeah,
>>> may as well give it a try".
>>>
>>>
>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Deems Davis wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John W. Cox wrote:
>>>>
>>>> . Fiberglass is not transparent
>>>> to RF it creates a false positive and measurable signal loss. It is
>>>> only translucent with a clearly diminished performance. It also
>>>>
>>>>
>> requires
>>
>>
>>>> your output amp to work significantly harder leading to earlier
>>>> potential failure and often a loss of valuable communication when
>>>>
> you
>
>>>> need it most - rain fade, cloud obscuration and turbulence
>>>>
>>>> John, can you elaborate or point me to a reference source. I have
>>>> always heard that fiberglass is transparent wrt antennas. If there
>>>>
> is
>
>>
>>>> a loss due to the fiberglass how big of a loss is it? and what is a
>>>> 'false positive'? Does the fiberglass affect all spectrums equally?
>>>>
>
>
>>>> Both of the antennas in my case are receive only and are satellite
>>>> based systems.
>>>>
>>>> Deems Davis # 406
>>>> 'Its all done....Its just not put together'
>>>> http://deemsrv10.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Fred Williams/ Hand injury |
I read that post totally wrong. Glad to hear it wasn't Russ, not glad
to hear that his friend Stein got hurt. It's all bad. Still needs a
prayer for recovery.
Fred Williams.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch |
Awesome humor! I chopped a slab of the same finger off in a
model airplane prop way back...had very similar stickers on
my desk when I got back too. Funny how things go.
I hear he showed up at work and there were gag gifts waiting
for him there too. Humor is the best medicine, once you
consider someone's still alive. Not only that, but it sometimes
takes someone going through tragedy to help reinforce the
proper cautious attitude in others.
Did I hear that Stein is having a 1/2 off sale, in honor of
his finger?? If he sells enough, he may be able to pay for
half of his hospital bill. ;)
Some day we should have a Stein Bruch Fly-In Benefit with
dinner for the guy. (Just better keep it to regular food
'cuz he's no good at chopsticks anymore)
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
James Hein wrote:
> So..... He can't give any more helpful pointers? <ducks>
>
> Look on the bright side; You'll save 10% off manicure prices!
>
> We had one guy at work who crushed a finger in a log splitter last year.
> What did his coworkers do?
> They placed these stickers all over his office upon his return:
>
>
>
> How's that for sympathy!
>
> Hope you had a good laugh from this email Stein! Get well soon!
>
> -Jim 40384
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
>>
>> Fred,
>>
>> I *think* you're wrong, I just called Russ, to verify his
>> 10 digits. ;)
>>
>> I've talked to Stein a bit the past couple days....he's been
>> a bit laid up after chopping off half his index finger in a
>> prop. Something about wanting to verify the tach by how
>> hard the prop hits the finger or some scientific test like
>> that. <g> His spirits are as good as they can be, given the
>> event. Below I'll link his post on VAF to try to at least announce
>> the happening.
>>
>> http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?p=155476#post155476
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I figured that this soon will filter out in the rumor mill because
>> enough people already know, so I'd make a quick post personally to let
>> you know what is going on.
>>
>> This weekend I was helping a friend get his rotax powered quicksilver
>> running and had a rather unfortuneate and messy accident (don't worry
>> too much, it wasn't fatal).
>>
>> Long story short. My right hand ended up contacting the running prop
>> (sharp nylon 3 bladed ultra prop).....as you can well imagine the prop
>> ended up much better than my right hand - which didn't fare too
>> well....but in the end not as bad as it could have been. The prop has
>> a tiny red stained nick on it from one of my bones, and we had to hunt
>> (in the grass of our runway) for the severed flesh if mine, but we did
>> ok and had everything on ice before heading to the hospital,
>>
>> I'm home from the hospital now, had orthopedic surgery from a
>> hand/upper extremity specailist and am going to be fine, albeit with
>> 1/2 less of a missing digit on my right hand than I had last week at
>> this time. They were unable to use the last half of my index finger -
>> but the rest should be ok.......we hope!
>>
>> Please bear with me while I'm slow to type (noy very fast with only 1
>> usable hand) and the other not feeling too good right now. I'll be
>> working reduced hours this week due to more appointments with the
>> surgeon, so to those of you waiting for "stuff" from me personally,
>> your patience is appreciated. I would kindly ask that you not deluge
>> me with lots of personal calls or emails because I just simply cannot
>> respond right now. I'm pretty doped up, really tired and in a wee bit
>> of pain.
>>
>> After I'm feeling a bit better I'll post a long, detailed (and
>> probably disturbing) account of the accident - becase that's all it
>> is. After having a dog bite my running prop on the RV some years ago,
>> and sitting in a cockpit when another old guy got hit by a prop many
>> years before, I treat them like bombs.....but it still happenend to
>> me, so PLEASE BE EXTRA carefull. I'm pretty carefull and it still
>> happened in less than a blink of an eye.
>>
>> I can't overstate how emotionally and physically painfull of an
>> experience this is. I'm going to be fine in the end and won't be much
>> worse for it, but it's still a miserable thing to deal with. The
>> silver lining is I'm alive, didn't lose a hand or arm, and have most
>> of my fingers back. It's embarrassing, humiliating and painful to type
>> this note, but it needs to be done.
>>
>> Thanks to all who have already sent their supprt, and I sincerely
>> appreciate everyone's patience while I get through this. I'm still
>> working as able, just reduced hours and reduced email responses.
>> Again, thanks for everything from such a great community of people,
>> many of you I'm proud to call friends,
>>
>> Best Regards, God Bless and BE SAFE!
>> Stein Bruch
>> RV6, Minneapolis
>>
>>
>> Fred Williams, M.D. wrote:
>>> <drfred@suddenlinkmail.com>
>>>
>>> Everybody pray for Russ. (Texas Tech RV 10) He had an accident this
>>> weekend and his right hand contacted a prop. (helping a friend with
>>> his airplane) Lost at least 1/2 of his right index finger and had to
>>> have surgery. The email stated he would post details when he is
>>> feeling better. He stated he was out of the hospital and back home.
>>> Requested not to get a bunch of emails as he probably wouldn't feel
>>> up to answering all of them I wrote to Russ this weekend to find
>>> out how he did his Kevlar panel.
>>>
>>> Fred Williams
>>>
>>> 40515
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch |
No finger food either!
Maybe we can eat some Wendy's Chili (you know, to help search for the
missing piece!) :)
I had also gotten bit by a 12" R/C prop many years ago; It hit
lengthwise, splitting the nail down the center (whomever said that the
shortest distance between two points apparently didn't take propellers
into account!) Hurt like an SOB for a week. I also had a fight with a
Dremel saw about 20 years ago.. cut my thumb almost in half, but was
repaired and looks (and feels) normal now; My parents were on vacation
at the time, so they now keep reminding me of how I ruined their
vacation :) They keep milking that guilt trip for sure!
-Jim
do not archive
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Awesome humor! I chopped a slab of the same finger off in a
> model airplane prop way back...had very similar stickers on
> my desk when I got back too. Funny how things go.
> I hear he showed up at work and there were gag gifts waiting
> for him there too. Humor is the best medicine, once you
> consider someone's still alive. Not only that, but it sometimes
> takes someone going through tragedy to help reinforce the
> proper cautious attitude in others.
>
> Did I hear that Stein is having a 1/2 off sale, in honor of
> his finger?? If he sells enough, he may be able to pay for
> half of his hospital bill. ;)
>
> Some day we should have a Stein Bruch Fly-In Benefit with
> dinner for the guy. (Just better keep it to regular food
> 'cuz he's no good at chopsticks anymore)
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> James Hein wrote:
>> So..... He can't give any more helpful pointers? <ducks>
>>
>> Look on the bright side; You'll save 10% off manicure prices!
>>
>> We had one guy at work who crushed a finger in a log splitter last year.
>> What did his coworkers do?
>> They placed these stickers all over his office upon his return:
>>
>>
>>
>> How's that for sympathy!
>>
>> Hope you had a good laugh from this email Stein! Get well soon!
>>
>> -Jim 40384
>>
>> Tim Olson wrote:
>>>
>>> Fred,
>>>
>>> I *think* you're wrong, I just called Russ, to verify his
>>> 10 digits. ;)
>>>
>>> I've talked to Stein a bit the past couple days....he's been
>>> a bit laid up after chopping off half his index finger in a
>>> prop. Something about wanting to verify the tach by how
>>> hard the prop hits the finger or some scientific test like
>>> that. <g> His spirits are as good as they can be, given the
>>> event. Below I'll link his post on VAF to try to at least announce
>>> the happening.
>>>
>>> http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?p=155476#post155476
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I figured that this soon will filter out in the rumor mill because
>>> enough people already know, so I'd make a quick post personally to
>>> let you know what is going on.
>>>
>>> This weekend I was helping a friend get his rotax powered
>>> quicksilver running and had a rather unfortuneate and messy accident
>>> (don't worry too much, it wasn't fatal).
>>>
>>> Long story short. My right hand ended up contacting the running prop
>>> (sharp nylon 3 bladed ultra prop).....as you can well imagine the
>>> prop ended up much better than my right hand - which didn't fare too
>>> well....but in the end not as bad as it could have been. The prop
>>> has a tiny red stained nick on it from one of my bones, and we had
>>> to hunt (in the grass of our runway) for the severed flesh if mine,
>>> but we did ok and had everything on ice before heading to the hospital,
>>>
>>> I'm home from the hospital now, had orthopedic surgery from a
>>> hand/upper extremity specailist and am going to be fine, albeit with
>>> 1/2 less of a missing digit on my right hand than I had last week at
>>> this time. They were unable to use the last half of my index finger
>>> - but the rest should be ok.......we hope!
>>>
>>> Please bear with me while I'm slow to type (noy very fast with only
>>> 1 usable hand) and the other not feeling too good right now. I'll be
>>> working reduced hours this week due to more appointments with the
>>> surgeon, so to those of you waiting for "stuff" from me personally,
>>> your patience is appreciated. I would kindly ask that you not deluge
>>> me with lots of personal calls or emails because I just simply
>>> cannot respond right now. I'm pretty doped up, really tired and in a
>>> wee bit of pain.
>>>
>>> After I'm feeling a bit better I'll post a long, detailed (and
>>> probably disturbing) account of the accident - becase that's all it
>>> is. After having a dog bite my running prop on the RV some years
>>> ago, and sitting in a cockpit when another old guy got hit by a prop
>>> many years before, I treat them like bombs.....but it still
>>> happenend to me, so PLEASE BE EXTRA carefull. I'm pretty carefull
>>> and it still happened in less than a blink of an eye.
>>>
>>> I can't overstate how emotionally and physically painfull of an
>>> experience this is. I'm going to be fine in the end and won't be
>>> much worse for it, but it's still a miserable thing to deal with.
>>> The silver lining is I'm alive, didn't lose a hand or arm, and have
>>> most of my fingers back. It's embarrassing, humiliating and painful
>>> to type this note, but it needs to be done.
>>>
>>> Thanks to all who have already sent their supprt, and I sincerely
>>> appreciate everyone's patience while I get through this. I'm still
>>> working as able, just reduced hours and reduced email responses.
>>> Again, thanks for everything from such a great community of people,
>>> many of you I'm proud to call friends,
>>>
>>> Best Regards, God Bless and BE SAFE!
>>> Stein Bruch
>>> RV6, Minneapolis
>>>
>>>
>>> Fred Williams, M.D. wrote:
>>>> <drfred@suddenlinkmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> Everybody pray for Russ. (Texas Tech RV 10) He had an accident
>>>> this weekend and his right hand contacted a prop. (helping a friend
>>>> with his airplane) Lost at least 1/2 of his right index finger and
>>>> had to have surgery. The email stated he would post details when
>>>> he is feeling better. He stated he was out of the hospital and
>>>> back home. Requested not to get a bunch of emails as he probably
>>>> wouldn't feel up to answering all of them I wrote to Russ this
>>>> weekend to find out how he did his Kevlar panel.
>>>>
>>>> Fred Williams
>>>>
>>>> 40515
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch |
Yes we would have to definitely stay away from finger food...but we
could all chip in and get him that gift from Spencer's, you know the one
with the finger in the box and you put ketchup around it?
Dan
N289DT RV10E Flying
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch
Awesome humor! I chopped a slab of the same finger off in a
model airplane prop way back...had very similar stickers on
my desk when I got back too. Funny how things go.
I hear he showed up at work and there were gag gifts waiting
for him there too. Humor is the best medicine, once you
consider someone's still alive. Not only that, but it sometimes
takes someone going through tragedy to help reinforce the
proper cautious attitude in others.
Did I hear that Stein is having a 1/2 off sale, in honor of
his finger?? If he sells enough, he may be able to pay for
half of his hospital bill. ;)
Some day we should have a Stein Bruch Fly-In Benefit with
dinner for the guy. (Just better keep it to regular food
'cuz he's no good at chopsticks anymore)
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
James Hein wrote:
> So..... He can't give any more helpful pointers? <ducks>
>
> Look on the bright side; You'll save 10% off manicure prices!
>
> We had one guy at work who crushed a finger in a log splitter last
year.
> What did his coworkers do?
> They placed these stickers all over his office upon his return:
>
>
>
> How's that for sympathy!
>
> Hope you had a good laugh from this email Stein! Get well soon!
>
> -Jim 40384
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
>>
>> Fred,
>>
>> I *think* you're wrong, I just called Russ, to verify his
>> 10 digits. ;)
>>
>> I've talked to Stein a bit the past couple days....he's been
>> a bit laid up after chopping off half his index finger in a
>> prop. Something about wanting to verify the tach by how
>> hard the prop hits the finger or some scientific test like
>> that. <g> His spirits are as good as they can be, given the
>> event. Below I'll link his post on VAF to try to at least announce
>> the happening.
>>
>>
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?p=155476#post155476
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I figured that this soon will filter out in the rumor mill because
>> enough people already know, so I'd make a quick post personally to
let
>> you know what is going on.
>>
>> This weekend I was helping a friend get his rotax powered quicksilver
>> running and had a rather unfortuneate and messy accident (don't worry
>> too much, it wasn't fatal).
>>
>> Long story short. My right hand ended up contacting the running prop
>> (sharp nylon 3 bladed ultra prop).....as you can well imagine the
prop
>> ended up much better than my right hand - which didn't fare too
>> well....but in the end not as bad as it could have been. The prop has
>> a tiny red stained nick on it from one of my bones, and we had to
hunt
>> (in the grass of our runway) for the severed flesh if mine, but we
did
>> ok and had everything on ice before heading to the hospital,
>>
>> I'm home from the hospital now, had orthopedic surgery from a
>> hand/upper extremity specailist and am going to be fine, albeit with
>> 1/2 less of a missing digit on my right hand than I had last week at
>> this time. They were unable to use the last half of my index finger -
>> but the rest should be ok.......we hope!
>>
>> Please bear with me while I'm slow to type (noy very fast with only 1
>> usable hand) and the other not feeling too good right now. I'll be
>> working reduced hours this week due to more appointments with the
>> surgeon, so to those of you waiting for "stuff" from me personally,
>> your patience is appreciated. I would kindly ask that you not deluge
>> me with lots of personal calls or emails because I just simply cannot
>> respond right now. I'm pretty doped up, really tired and in a wee bit
>> of pain.
>>
>> After I'm feeling a bit better I'll post a long, detailed (and
>> probably disturbing) account of the accident - becase that's all it
>> is. After having a dog bite my running prop on the RV some years ago,
>> and sitting in a cockpit when another old guy got hit by a prop many
>> years before, I treat them like bombs.....but it still happenend to
>> me, so PLEASE BE EXTRA carefull. I'm pretty carefull and it still
>> happened in less than a blink of an eye.
>>
>> I can't overstate how emotionally and physically painfull of an
>> experience this is. I'm going to be fine in the end and won't be much
>> worse for it, but it's still a miserable thing to deal with. The
>> silver lining is I'm alive, didn't lose a hand or arm, and have most
>> of my fingers back. It's embarrassing, humiliating and painful to
type
>> this note, but it needs to be done.
>>
>> Thanks to all who have already sent their supprt, and I sincerely
>> appreciate everyone's patience while I get through this. I'm still
>> working as able, just reduced hours and reduced email responses.
>> Again, thanks for everything from such a great community of people,
>> many of you I'm proud to call friends,
>>
>> Best Regards, God Bless and BE SAFE!
>> Stein Bruch
>> RV6, Minneapolis
>>
>>
>> Fred Williams, M.D. wrote:
>>> <drfred@suddenlinkmail.com>
>>>
>>> Everybody pray for Russ. (Texas Tech RV 10) He had an accident
this
>>> weekend and his right hand contacted a prop. (helping a friend with
>>> his airplane) Lost at least 1/2 of his right index finger and had
to
>>> have surgery. The email stated he would post details when he is
>>> feeling better. He stated he was out of the hospital and back home.
>>> Requested not to get a bunch of emails as he probably wouldn't feel
>>> up to answering all of them I wrote to Russ this weekend to find
>>> out how he did his Kevlar panel.
>>>
>>> Fred Williams
>>>
>>> 40515
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch |
If a handshake hurts too much we could welcome Stein back with a High 4
1/2
Robin
Message 15
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| Subject: | Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch |
Back when I test flew my Glasair III I returned to my wood working shop to
find that the employees had made me a coffin, just in case! I don't know
what they would have done if I hadn't made it.
Gary
40274
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 3:51 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch
If a handshake hurts too much we could welcome Stein back with a High 4
1/2
Robin
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch |
I asked him for a quote on the new WSI system last week, I guess it's too late
to ask him to sharpen his pencil...since he won't be allowed to use dangerous
machinery for a while.
Rick S.
40185
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 10:58:20 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch
Awesome humor! I chopped a slab of the same finger off in a
model airplane prop way back...had very similar stickers on
my desk when I got back too. Funny how things go.
I hear he showed up at work and there were gag gifts waiting
for him there too. Humor is the best medicine, once you
consider someone's still alive. Not only that, but it sometimes
takes someone going through tragedy to help reinforce the
proper cautious attitude in others.
Did I hear that Stein is having a 1/2 off sale, in honor of
his finger?? If he sells enough, he may be able to pay for
half of his hospital bill. ;)
Some day we should have a Stein Bruch Fly-In Benefit with
dinner for the guy. (Just better keep it to regular food
'cuz he's no good at chopsticks anymore)
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
James Hein wrote:
> So..... He can't give any more helpful pointers? <ducks>
>
> Look on the bright side; You'll save 10% off manicure prices!
>
> We had one guy at work who crushed a finger in a log splitter last year.
> What did his coworkers do?
> They placed these stickers all over his office upon his return:
>
>
>
> How's that for sympathy!
>
> Hope you had a good laugh from this email Stein! Get well soon!
>
> -Jim 40384
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
>>
>> Fred,
>>
>> I *think* you're wrong, I just called Russ, to verify his
>> 10 digits. ;)
>>
>> I've talked to Stein a bit the past couple days....he's been
>> a bit laid up after chopping off half his index finger in a
>> prop. Something about wanting to verify the tach by how
>> hard the prop hits the finger or some scientific test like
>> that. <g> His spirits are as good as they can be, given the
>> event. Below I'll link his post on VAF to try to at least announce
>> the happening.
>>
>> http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?p=155476#post155476
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I figured that this soon will filter out in the rumor mill because
>> enough people already know, so I'd make a quick post personally to let
>> you know what is going on.
>>
>> This weekend I was helping a friend get his rotax powered quicksilver
>> running and had a rather unfortuneate and messy accident (don't worry
>> too much, it wasn't fatal).
>>
>> Long story short. My right hand ended up contacting the running prop
>> (sharp nylon 3 bladed ultra prop).....as you can well imagine the prop
>> ended up much better than my right hand - which didn't fare too
>> well....but in the end not as bad as it could have been. The prop has
>> a tiny red stained nick on it from one of my bones, and we had to hunt
>> (in the grass of our runway) for the severed flesh if mine, but we did
>> ok and had everything on ice before heading to the hospital,
>>
>> I'm home from the hospital now, had orthopedic surgery from a
>> hand/upper extremity specailist and am going to be fine, albeit with
>> 1/2 less of a missing digit on my right hand than I had last week at
>> this time. They were unable to use the last half of my index finger -
>> but the rest should be ok.......we hope!
>>
>> Please bear with me while I'm slow to type (noy very fast with only 1
>> usable hand) and the other not feeling too good right now. I'll be
>> working reduced hours this week due to more appointments with the
>> surgeon, so to those of you waiting for "stuff" from me personally,
>> your patience is appreciated. I would kindly ask that you not deluge
>> me with lots of personal calls or emails because I just simply cannot
>> respond right now. I'm pretty doped up, really tired and in a wee bit
>> of pain.
>>
>> After I'm feeling a bit better I'll post a long, detailed (and
>> probably disturbing) account of the accident - becase that's all it
>> is. After having a dog bite my running prop on the RV some years ago,
>> and sitting in a cockpit when another old guy got hit by a prop many
>> years before, I treat them like bombs.....but it still happenend to
>> me, so PLEASE BE EXTRA carefull. I'm pretty carefull and it still
>> happened in less than a blink of an eye.
>>
>> I can't overstate how emotionally and physically painfull of an
>> experience this is. I'm going to be fine in the end and won't be much
>> worse for it, but it's still a miserable thing to deal with. The
>> silver lining is I'm alive, didn't lose a hand or arm, and have most
>> of my fingers back. It's embarrassing, humiliating and painful to type
>> this note, but it needs to be done.
>>
>> Thanks to all who have already sent their supprt, and I sincerely
>> appreciate everyone's patience while I get through this. I'm still
>> working as able, just reduced hours and reduced email responses.
>> Again, thanks for everything from such a great community of people,
>> many of you I'm proud to call friends,
>>
>> Best Regards, God Bless and BE SAFE!
>> Stein Bruch
>> RV6, Minneapolis
>>
>>
>> Fred Williams, M.D. wrote:
>>> <drfred@suddenlinkmail.com>
>>>
>>> Everybody pray for Russ. (Texas Tech RV 10) He had an accident this
>>> weekend and his right hand contacted a prop. (helping a friend with
>>> his airplane) Lost at least 1/2 of his right index finger and had to
>>> have surgery. The email stated he would post details when he is
>>> feeling better. He stated he was out of the hospital and back home.
>>> Requested not to get a bunch of emails as he probably wouldn't feel
>>> up to answering all of them I wrote to Russ this weekend to find
>>> out how he did his Kevlar panel.
>>>
>>> Fred Williams
>>>
>>> 40515
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch |
actually ..he probably won't be selling anything digital for a while...
John 40315
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Sked" <ricksked@embarqmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 6:13 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch
>
> I asked him for a quote on the new WSI system last week, I guess it's too
> late to ask him to sharpen his pencil...since he won't be allowed to use
> dangerous machinery for a while.
>
> Rick S.
> 40185
> do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 10:58:20 AM (GMT-0800)
> America/Los_Angeles
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch
>
>
> Awesome humor! I chopped a slab of the same finger off in a
> model airplane prop way back...had very similar stickers on
> my desk when I got back too. Funny how things go.
> I hear he showed up at work and there were gag gifts waiting
> for him there too. Humor is the best medicine, once you
> consider someone's still alive. Not only that, but it sometimes
> takes someone going through tragedy to help reinforce the
> proper cautious attitude in others.
>
> Did I hear that Stein is having a 1/2 off sale, in honor of
> his finger?? If he sells enough, he may be able to pay for
> half of his hospital bill. ;)
>
> Some day we should have a Stein Bruch Fly-In Benefit with
> dinner for the guy. (Just better keep it to regular food
> 'cuz he's no good at chopsticks anymore)
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> James Hein wrote:
>> So..... He can't give any more helpful pointers? <ducks>
>>
>> Look on the bright side; You'll save 10% off manicure prices!
>>
>> We had one guy at work who crushed a finger in a log splitter last year.
>> What did his coworkers do?
>> They placed these stickers all over his office upon his return:
>>
>>
>>
>> How's that for sympathy!
>>
>> Hope you had a good laugh from this email Stein! Get well soon!
>>
>> -Jim 40384
>>
>> Tim Olson wrote:
>>>
>>> Fred,
>>>
>>> I *think* you're wrong, I just called Russ, to verify his
>>> 10 digits. ;)
>>>
>>> I've talked to Stein a bit the past couple days....he's been
>>> a bit laid up after chopping off half his index finger in a
>>> prop. Something about wanting to verify the tach by how
>>> hard the prop hits the finger or some scientific test like
>>> that. <g> His spirits are as good as they can be, given the
>>> event. Below I'll link his post on VAF to try to at least announce
>>> the happening.
>>>
>>> http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?p=155476#post155476
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I figured that this soon will filter out in the rumor mill because
>>> enough people already know, so I'd make a quick post personally to let
>>> you know what is going on.
>>>
>>> This weekend I was helping a friend get his rotax powered quicksilver
>>> running and had a rather unfortuneate and messy accident (don't worry
>>> too much, it wasn't fatal).
>>>
>>> Long story short. My right hand ended up contacting the running prop
>>> (sharp nylon 3 bladed ultra prop).....as you can well imagine the prop
>>> ended up much better than my right hand - which didn't fare too
>>> well....but in the end not as bad as it could have been. The prop has
>>> a tiny red stained nick on it from one of my bones, and we had to hunt
>>> (in the grass of our runway) for the severed flesh if mine, but we did
>>> ok and had everything on ice before heading to the hospital,
>>>
>>> I'm home from the hospital now, had orthopedic surgery from a
>>> hand/upper extremity specailist and am going to be fine, albeit with
>>> 1/2 less of a missing digit on my right hand than I had last week at
>>> this time. They were unable to use the last half of my index finger -
>>> but the rest should be ok.......we hope!
>>>
>>> Please bear with me while I'm slow to type (noy very fast with only 1
>>> usable hand) and the other not feeling too good right now. I'll be
>>> working reduced hours this week due to more appointments with the
>>> surgeon, so to those of you waiting for "stuff" from me personally,
>>> your patience is appreciated. I would kindly ask that you not deluge
>>> me with lots of personal calls or emails because I just simply cannot
>>> respond right now. I'm pretty doped up, really tired and in a wee bit
>>> of pain.
>>>
>>> After I'm feeling a bit better I'll post a long, detailed (and
>>> probably disturbing) account of the accident - becase that's all it
>>> is. After having a dog bite my running prop on the RV some years ago,
>>> and sitting in a cockpit when another old guy got hit by a prop many
>>> years before, I treat them like bombs.....but it still happenend to
>>> me, so PLEASE BE EXTRA carefull. I'm pretty carefull and it still
>>> happened in less than a blink of an eye.
>>>
>>> I can't overstate how emotionally and physically painfull of an
>>> experience this is. I'm going to be fine in the end and won't be much
>>> worse for it, but it's still a miserable thing to deal with. The
>>> silver lining is I'm alive, didn't lose a hand or arm, and have most
>>> of my fingers back. It's embarrassing, humiliating and painful to type
>>> this note, but it needs to be done.
>>>
>>> Thanks to all who have already sent their supprt, and I sincerely
>>> appreciate everyone's patience while I get through this. I'm still
>>> working as able, just reduced hours and reduced email responses.
>>> Again, thanks for everything from such a great community of people,
>>> many of you I'm proud to call friends,
>>>
>>> Best Regards, God Bless and BE SAFE!
>>> Stein Bruch
>>> RV6, Minneapolis
>>>
>>>
>>> Fred Williams, M.D. wrote:
>>>> <drfred@suddenlinkmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> Everybody pray for Russ. (Texas Tech RV 10) He had an accident this
>>>> weekend and his right hand contacted a prop. (helping a friend with
>>>> his airplane) Lost at least 1/2 of his right index finger and had to
>>>> have surgery. The email stated he would post details when he is
>>>> feeling better. He stated he was out of the hospital and back home.
>>>> Requested not to get a bunch of emails as he probably wouldn't feel
>>>> up to answering all of them I wrote to Russ this weekend to find
>>>> out how he did his Kevlar panel.
>>>>
>>>> Fred Williams
>>>>
>>>> 40515
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Air Force Completes Transition of GPS Fleet to Upgraded Control |
System
This is good to see but it makes me a bit nervous to learn that the entire
GPS nav data command and control system is in one location and LA none the
less......
http://www.losangeles.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123068412
Message 19
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| Subject: | Air Force Completes Transition of GPS Fleet to Upgraded |
Control System
Flying United from east to west coast yesterday, I tuned into channel 9 and
listened to air traffic control to pass the time and practice writing down
freq changes and the like. One commercial coming out of LA asked Salt Lake
Center if they knew that the GPS was off line yet again, probably due to the
military practicing jamming. He felt that the controller should pass on the
information to other flights so there would be less confusion and other
pilots could be prepared. The controller thanked the pilot and said it
wasn't the first time.
Okay then.
John J
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 1:58 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Air Force Completes Transition of GPS Fleet to Upgraded
Control System
This is good to see but it makes me a bit nervous to learn that the entire
GPS nav data command and control system is in one location and LA none the
less..
http://www.losangeles.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123068412
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch |
Do we need to get a new sofa on wheels for Osh next year :D
Seat belts required for sure!
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
Fuselage SB
(N410GB reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135133#135133
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch |
Stein,
Sorry to hear about your incident.........I do sell Pain meds........:
) Wanna trade some for an SL30? I have the kind that take the pai
n away and relax you to the point of NO CARES!
I am sure it was not your fault.........has to be one of those irrespo
nsible props that are not finger friendly. Know any good attorneys.....
..I am sure they can sue the prop for lost wages and emotional distress.
GET WELL!
DEAN
_____________________________________________________________
Click to find local singles for dating, romance and fun.
http://3rdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iif6R6CarDMR3qK0KqIv51ljI
Ieeq5467k4R0yUAN7Sftkub6/
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch |
Good idea! Take the attorneys and shove them into the prop! Why didn't I
think of that?
Emotional distress? What, from all the jokes?
I guess he can only INDEX the left magneto now... ! :)
-Jim 40384
do not archive
ddddsp1@juno.com wrote:
> Stein,
>
> Sorry to hear about your incident.........I do sell Pain
> meds........:) Wanna trade some for an SL30? I have the kind
> that take the pain away and relax you to the point of NO CARES!
>
> I am sure it was not your fault.........has to be one of those
> irresponsible props that are not finger friendly. Know any good
> attorneys.......I am sure they can sue the prop for lost wages and
> emotional distress.
>
> GET WELL!
>
> DEAN
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Click to find local singles for dating, romance and fun.
> <http://3rdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2112/fc/Ioyw6iif6R6CarDMR3qK0KqIv51ljIIeeq5467k4R0yUAN7Sftkub6/>
>
>*
>
>
>*
>
Message 23
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|
Zero responses. Searched the RV-10 archives and there is very little
there. I guess I can only assume that no other RV-10 builder has any
oil canning. The general RV archives are only a little more
enlightening.
What happened to the good old days - when a basic building query met
with half a dozen or more immediate useful suggestions? I hope the
list has not not exhausted itself as a resource for builder assistance.
I know oil canning is common on all metal aircraft, but I am interested
in solutions that the -10 crowd may have deployed to reduce or eliminate
the problem - unless of course I am the ONLY crappy builder with oil
canning.
cheers,
Ron
187 finishing
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Sent: Monday, 17 September 2007 8:38 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Oil Canning
Hey all,
Getting to the final assembly stage. I pulled out the VS that
was completed over 3 years ago. Did not know any better at the time and
thought my first airplane part was just fine. But there is significant
oil canning on both of the large aft-lower panels. The only other oil
canning I have is very minor on one or two of the lower wing skin
panels, so the VS is really giving me the irrits. Any clues on how to
tighten the skins?
cheers,
Ron
187 finishing
Message 24
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No, you're not the only one. When I mounted my horizontal stabilizer on
the tail cone I found a couple of areas that weren't as tight as the
rest. I've been watching to see what response you get.
Jack Phillips
#40610
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 7:00 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil Canning
Zero responses. Searched the RV-10 archives and there is very little
there. I guess I can only assume that no other RV-10 builder has any
oil canning. The general RV archives are only a little more
enlightening.
What happened to the good old days - when a basic building query met
with half a dozen or more immediate useful suggestions? I hope the
list has not not exhausted itself as a resource for builder assistance.
I know oil canning is common on all metal aircraft, but I am interested
in solutions that the -10 crowd may have deployed to reduce or eliminate
the problem - unless of course I am the ONLY crappy builder with oil
canning.
cheers,
Ron
187 finishing
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Sent: Monday, 17 September 2007 8:38 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Oil Canning
Hey all,
Getting to the final assembly stage. I pulled out the VS that
was completed over 3 years ago. Did not know any better at the time and
thought my first airplane part was just fine. But there is significant
oil canning on both of the large aft-lower panels. The only other oil
canning I have is very minor on one or two of the lower wing skin
panels, so the VS is really giving me the irrits. Any clues on how to
tighten the skins?
cheers,
Ron
187 finishing
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
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or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
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rohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
Message 25
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Has anyone had any real contact with www.Rivethead-aero.com (Full Throttle
Concepts) in the last two weeks or so? I have been trying to contact them b
y email and phone -no reply to my emails and their voicemail box has been f
ull since last week. Also today I noticed their website has expired and rev
erted to a "link site". I hope they haven't gone away but it doesn't look g
ood. So if you know anything please prove me wrong. Also if David could rea
ssure the group that all is well and explain what is going on that would be
great.
Vern Smith
do not archive
_________________________________________________________________
Kick back and relax with hot games and cool activities at the Messenger Caf
=E9.
http://www.cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_SeptWLtagline
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Russel Davis .... Actually Stein Bruch |
Man, oh man, Stein! What the heck!
That must have given the old ticker a shock. Might have needed the ever
popular Digitalis purpurea to settle things down or get them going again.
My goodness! Well at least we know about this given that we can all
communicate easily and instantaneously in this digital age we're in. Not
that in other times we wouldn't have had a pulse on this type of news, but
you might never have heard of such a thing, and who knows the spin they'd
put on it. Did you have to prop yourself up, afterwards?
All the best, my friend.
John Jessen
Message 27
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Oil CanningI have an area on one elevator with a lose skin. I went to
see my tech counselors RV-6 and he had a few of the same in different
sections. He said it happens and if it is not dramatic, not to worry.
Sorry, I can't offer more info.
Dave Leikam
40496
Wing guts
----- Original Message -----
From: McGANN, Ron
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 4:59 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil Canning
Zero responses. Searched the RV-10 archives and there is very little
there. I guess I can only assume that no other RV-10 builder has any
oil canning. The general RV archives are only a little more
enlightening.
What happened to the good old days - when a basic building query met
with half a dozen or more immediate useful suggestions? I hope the
list has not not exhausted itself as a resource for builder assistance.
I know oil canning is common on all metal aircraft, but I am
interested in solutions that the -10 crowd may have deployed to reduce
or eliminate the problem - unless of course I am the ONLY crappy builder
with oil canning.
cheers,
Ron
187 finishing
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Sent: Monday, 17 September 2007 8:38 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Oil Canning
Hey all,
Getting to the final assembly stage. I pulled out the VS that was
completed over 3 years ago. Did not know any better at the time and
thought my first airplane part was just fine. But there is significant
oil canning on both of the large aft-lower panels. The only other oil
canning I have is very minor on one or two of the lower wing skin
panels, so the VS is really giving me the irrits. Any clues on how to
tighten the skins?
cheers,
Ron
187 finishing
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 28
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| Subject: | Aircraft renters insurance |
Can anyone recommend a good aircraft renters insurance company? I have
to start renting from the FBO as my friend sold the Archer I was flying.
A bit off subject but this is the largest pilot group I can talk to at
once. Thanks.
Dave Leikam
40496
do not archive
Message 29
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Hi Ron,
I've got quite a bit of oil canning in my elevators. My tech
counselor shrugged and said don't worry about it... but I'm not happy
with it and may re do those parts if I've got some time to kill while
waiting on panel parts.
I showed it to a cousin of mine who's done repair work on Airforce
1. He suggested drilling a hole in the middle of it, dimpling and
flush riveting the hole.
I've not tried it... can't tell you if it works... but if you do, and
it does... please let me know.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
N410CF
On Sep 18, 2007, at 3:59 PM, McGANN, Ron wrote:
> Zero responses. Searched the RV-10 archives and there is very
> little there. I guess I can only assume that no other RV-10
> builder has any oil canning. The general RV archives are only a
> little more enlightening.
>
> What happened to the good old days - when a basic building query
> met with half a dozen or more immediate useful suggestions? I
> hope the list has not not exhausted itself as a resource for
> builder assistance.
>
> I know oil canning is common on all metal aircraft, but I am
> interested in solutions that the -10 crowd may have deployed to
> reduce or eliminate the problem - unless of course I am the ONLY
> crappy builder with oil canning.
>
> cheers,
> Ron
> 187 finishing
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
> Sent: Monday, 17 September 2007 8:38 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Oil Canning
>
>
> Hey all,
>
> Getting to the final assembly stage. I pulled out the VS that was
> completed over 3 years ago. Did not know any better at the time
> and thought my first airplane part was just fine. But there is
> significant oil canning on both of the large aft-lower panels. The
> only other oil canning I have is very minor on one or two of the
> lower wing skin panels, so the VS is really giving me the irrits.
> Any clues on how to tighten the skins?
>
> cheers,
> Ron
> 187 finishing
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
Message 30
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Dan Checkoway has something on his RV-7 site about this. He just used some
RTV to attach some pieces of "J" channel to the inside of the tailcone,
between the ribs to stiffen the skins. His entry on this is Sept. 2, 2005.
Steve Weinstock
40230
In a message dated 9/18/2007 6:12:04 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealth.com writes:
No, you're not the only one. When I mounted my horizontal stabilizer on the
tail cone I found a couple of areas that weren't as tight as the rest. I've
been watching to see what response you get.
Jack Phillips
#40610
____________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 7:00 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil Canning
Zero responses. Searched the RV-10 archives and there is very little there.
I guess I can only assume that no other RV-10 builder has any oil canning.
The general RV archives are only a little more enlightening.
What happened to the good old days - when a basic building query met with
half a dozen or more immediate useful suggestions? I hope the list has not
not exhausted itself as a resource for builder assistance.
I know oil canning is common on all metal aircraft, but I am interested in
solutions that the -10 crowd may have deployed to reduce or eliminate the
problem - unless of course I am the ONLY crappy builder with oil canning.
cheers,
Ron
187 finishing
____________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Sent: Monday, 17 September 2007 8:38 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Oil Canning
Hey all,
Getting to the final assembly stage. I pulled out the VS that was completed
over 3 years ago. Did not know any better at the time and thought my first
airplane part was just fine. But there is significant oil canning on both of
the large aft-lower panels. The only other oil canning I have is very minor
on one or two of the lower wing skin panels, so the VS is really giving me
the irrits. Any clues on how to tighten the skins?
cheers,
Ron
187 finishing
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft renters insurance |
Dave Leikam wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a good aircraft renters insurance company? I have
> to start renting from the FBO as my friend sold the Archer I was
> flying. A bit off subject but this is the largest pilot group I can
> talk to at once. Thanks.
Hi Dave,
I use:
Melissa Perkins
NationAir
603-883-0033
603-883-1299 Fax
They have treated me very well over the years.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
http://econ.duke.edu/~deej/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Rivethead-aero |
Trust me Dave is fine and he is still there making Parts, He is just very very
busy.
Kirk
>
> From: Vernon Smith <planesmith@hotmail.com>
> Date: 2007/09/18 Tue PM 07:27:09 EDT
> To: RV 10 list <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: Rivethead-aero
>
>
> Has anyone had any real contact with www.Rivethead-aero.com (Full Throttle Concepts) in the last two weeks or so? I have been trying to contact them by email and phone -no reply to my emails and their voicemail box has been full since last week. Also today I noticed their website has expired and reverted to a "link site". I hope they haven't gone away but it doesn't look good. So if you know anything please prove me wrong. Also if David could reassure the group that all is well and explain what is going on that would be great.
>
> Vern Smith
>
> do not archive
> _________________________________________________________________
> Kick back and relax with hot games and cool activities at the Messenger Caf.
> http://www.cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_SeptWLtagline
>
Message 33
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Ron,
I myself have not had any signs of oil canning. Have done my Hs, wings, Vs,
tailcone 1.5 years ago still have not seen any. Maybe when you were
assembling Hs, wings, Vs, etc. you started at the ends and worked riveting inward
towards centers. I myself started in center of assembles and worked outward
this I thought would help by letting metal shrink/strech outwards towards the
ends of assembles. worked for me I have no oil canning visible as for solving
problem. shrinking metal/streching I would go with tech recommendations
an/or move on and keep building.
Dave Liudvinaitis
#40466
fuselage, side skins
Message 34
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He might want to try responding to his customers before he finds himself with a
lot of free time and no one buying.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kirk Groves
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rivethead-aero
Trust me Dave is fine and he is still there making Parts, He is just very very
busy.
Kirk
>
> From: Vernon Smith <planesmith@hotmail.com>
> Date: 2007/09/18 Tue PM 07:27:09 EDT
> To: RV 10 list <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: Rivethead-aero
>
>
> Has anyone had any real contact with www.Rivethead-aero.com (Full Throttle Concepts) in the last two weeks or so? I have been trying to contact them by email and phone -no reply to my emails and their voicemail box has been full since last week. Also today I noticed their website has expired and reverted to a "link site". I hope they haven't gone away but it doesn't look good. So if you know anything please prove me wrong. Also if David could reassure the group that all is well and explain what is going on that would be great.
>
> Vern Smith
>
> do not archive
> _________________________________________________________________
> Kick back and relax with hot games and cool activities at the Messenger Caf.
> http://www.cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_SeptWLtagline
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Rivethead-aero |
Already there unless he renews his domain name for his website. It
expired yesterday.
----- Original Message -----
From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 10:10 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Rivethead-aero
<rvbuilder@sausen.net>
He might want to try responding to his customers before he finds
himself with a lot of free time and no one buying.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kirk Groves
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 8:07 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rivethead-aero
Trust me Dave is fine and he is still there making Parts, He is just
very very busy.
Kirk
>
> From: Vernon Smith <planesmith@hotmail.com>
> Date: 2007/09/18 Tue PM 07:27:09 EDT
> To: RV 10 list <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: Rivethead-aero
>
>
> Has anyone had any real contact with www.Rivethead-aero.com (Full
Throttle Concepts) in the last two weeks or so? I have been trying to
contact them by email and phone -no reply to my emails and their
voicemail box has been full since last week. Also today I noticed their
website has expired and reverted to a "link site". I hope they haven't
gone away but it doesn't look good. So if you know anything please prove
me wrong. Also if David could reassure the group that all is well and
explain what is going on that would be great.
>
> Vern Smith
>
> do not archive
> _________________________________________________________________
> Kick back and relax with hot games and cool activities at the
Messenger Caf=E9.
> http://www.cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_SeptWLtagline
>
Message 36
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|
Thanks all for the responses.
As mentioned, I am at the stages of final assembly and the vast majority
of panels are tighter than a drum. I religiously started riveting from
the centre and worked towards the edges - as you have done Dave. On
perhaps a handful of panels, the skin is not quite so tight and exhibits
a slight 'wobble' when pressed in just the right spot, but the skin
always recovers to the relaxed condition. The VS is just way too loose
in my mind and needs to be tightened. I have heard other descriptions
of oil canning as the skin popping out when pressed in a particular
place - and staying there until pressed again. Am I confusing some flex
in the panels with something more insidious?
cheers,
Ron
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
DLIUDVINAITIS@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, 19 September 2007 11:37 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Oil Canning
Ron,
I myself have not had any signs of oil canning. Have done my Hs,
wings, Vs, tailcone 1.5 years ago still have not seen any. Maybe when
you were assembling Hs, wings, Vs, etc. you started at the ends and
worked riveting inward towards centers. I myself started in center of
assembles and worked outward this I thought would help by letting metal
shrink/strech outwards towards the ends of assembles. worked for me I
have no oil canning visible as for solving problem. shrinking
metal/streching I would go with tech recommendations an/or move on and
keep building.
Dave Liudvinaitis
#40466
fuselage, side skins
________________________________
Make AOL Your Homepage.
Message 37
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|
Well, when there's so much stress that it goes "pop pop" as you
press and release, where it makes a concave and then when you
push opposite, it "pops" loudly out, then I'd think it might
be worth doing something about. The skin will have areas
where it will flex some though, and although I'm not addressing
any known engineering things on this plane or any other, I'm guessing
that you don't want it always stretched super tight, as wings and
surfaces need to flex. Maybe John can comment a bit. If you do
have a section oil canning, and it can't be easily fixed by some
riveting, it may be time for taking one of a few measures. I've heard
of stiffners either being riveted in or prosealed in. The access area
around my stall warning plate got oil-canning like that. I added
stiffners in that particular area around the hole...2 of them, one
in each direction. That took care of it. But, I'm cautious to offer
that as general advice, because I'm sure there are some areas where
adding stiffners might make things too...well...stiff.
I'm not sure that the list can give a definite answer on it, and it's
something that either might be best referred to a tech counselor
locally, or played by "ear" (with the popping noise). That's probably
why you didn't get quick answers....most people are just waiting to
hear what someone has to say, because the exact magnitude isn't known
without standing there by it.
Sorry, I know that didn't help, but it was a shot.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
McGANN, Ron wrote:
> Thanks all for the responses.
>
> As mentioned, I am at the stages of final assembly and the vast majority
> of panels are tighter than a drum. I religiously started riveting from
> the centre and worked towards the edges - as you have done Dave. On
> perhaps a handful of panels, the skin is not quite so tight and exhibits
> a slight 'wobble' when pressed in just the right spot, but the skin
> always recovers to the relaxed condition. The VS is just way too loose
> in my mind and needs to be tightened. I have heard other descriptions
> of oil canning as the skin popping out when pressed in a particular
> place - and staying there until pressed again. Am I confusing some flex
> in the panels with something more insidious?
>
> cheers,
> Ron
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *DLIUDVINAITIS@aol.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 19 September 2007 11:37 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Oil Canning
>
> Ron,
> I myself have not had any signs of oil canning. Have done my Hs,
> wings, Vs, tailcone 1.5 years ago still have not seen any. Maybe
> when you were assembling Hs, wings, Vs, etc. you started at the ends
> and worked riveting inward towards centers. I myself started in
> center of assembles and worked outward this I thought would help by
> letting metal shrink/strech outwards towards the ends of
> assembles. worked for me I have no oil canning visible as for
> solving problem. shrinking metal/streching I would go with tech
> recommendations an/or move on and keep building.
>
> Dave Liudvinaitis
> #40466
> fuselage, side skins
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Make AOL Your Homepage.
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> *
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