Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:33 AM - Re: Gretz pitot and Tru-Trak (Wayne Edgerton)
2. 07:12 AM - Re: Vertical Power (Ed Mueller)
3. 07:57 AM - Re: RV-10 Incident (John W. Cox)
4. 09:17 AM - Oil Canning (John W. Cox)
5. 10:27 AM - LogTen Pro (Richard Reynolds)
6. 04:01 PM - Wingtip (John Dunne)
7. 08:25 PM - Re: Pitot/Static fittings on TruTrak Digflight ll VSVG (DejaVu)
8. 10:35 PM - Puzzled, perplex & confused in the fuse .... (Les Kearney)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Gretz pitot and Tru-Trak |
Hi Dave,
I mounted the circuit board on the inside to the access panel right next
to the pitot tube. I also have the Safe Air but ran the aluminum tubing.
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
in the paint shop hoping to make it to LOE this year ??
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Vertical Power |
Jessie,
I agree. Periodic posts would be great.
Ed
On Sep 22, 2007, at 2:51 AM, Robin Marks wrote:
> Jessie,
> Make periodic posts on the list. It should be of interest
> to the -10 crowd. Posting seems easier than a bunch of different
> conversations about the same thing.
>
> Just a thought,
> Robin
> Do Not Archive
>
>
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 5:45 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Vertical Power
>
> I am going to be installing a Vertical Power system in the next month
> and a half. Those who are interested in the system can write me off
> list if they are interested in talking about the setup. Stein highly
> recommended it, which was enough for me. Ill let the list know what
> we think once we are flying with it.
>
> Do not archive.
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> jesse@saintaviation.com
> www.saintaviation.com
> Cell: 352-427-0285
> Fax: 815-377-3694
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 3
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Incidents, Accidents, NTSB reporting procedures. No one is addressing
your post.
I had a close friend involved in an incident/accident where the medical
bills went over $1,000,000 to just one crewmember. It was an education
that the FAA does not want to have to reported to the NTSB just like
pilots don't. Lots of happenings do not get reported, others like prop
strikes are never documented so future purchasers don't know.
The famous FAA words "you did not intend to fly, did you?.... Did you!".
Oh no sir. Then it was not flying related and no need to report in
writing.. Thanks for asking.
Sixteen of us who were tangentially involved were sequestered in a major
corporate conference room until the final report was finished. Everyone
signed affidavits, then we watched as all but one single copy was
shredded. Seems some twist in the Freedom of Information Act allows
such a process. The corporation shut the program down and sold the
assets. I bought them and resold them to a well informed buyer and close
friend. Number of spectators to the happening. Several hundred - maybe
a thousand.
Now, we are not even starting the discussion of insurance coverage and
increasing costs... are we. You would be shocked at how the bills were
paid. No, it was not by an aviation insurance policy. The single
occurrence medical does not even come close.
Many of the engines that have been rebuilt for RV-10s have similar
checkered pasts.
Do not Archive
John Cox
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Incident
Shouldn't an incident such as this be reported on the NTSB?
It sounds like this occured at least 3-4 weeks ago.
I also saw this aircraft at Oshkosh. Makes me feel bad when people
spend 1500 hours building and don't put in the last 50-150 hours to get
the proper fit/finish. But that is the joy of experimental aircraft.
Rutan never did a great job finishing his planes either. I don't know
if any of them had interiors and you could always see through the paint.
But his mission required great weight savings.
Off subject: Here is a link to the trailer for "Thunder over Reno".
I've heard from people who watched it last week that it had a horrible
story with below average acting. The flying shots sounded cool. I just
watched the trailer and could tell the acting was not Harrison Ford
quality. I'll go see it though.
http://www.thunderoverreno.com/index2.html
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 11:32:19 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Incident
I'll always remember looking at that plane unpainted at OSH, with
a wire bundle running from the panel to the tunnel near the brake
lines, with the wires clearly laying on the sheet metal edge
of the tunnel cover....with no wire chafing protection at all.
That was just the start of it, but I just kind of figured some
day it would be an electrical fire that we'd hear about. Especially
since very little of the sheet metal edging had much deburring done
to it.
On the up side, there are many very fine examples of craftsmanship
to look at these days, and many builders are taking the time to
make them far better than any production plane.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Robin Marks wrote:
> Interesting...
> I know nothing about the incident but I actually know something
> about this plane.
> While at my home airport (SBP) in California I saw an RV-10
> parked in our transient restaurant parking. I was very excited to see
> one in person and it looked kinda nice from a distance. As I got
closer
> my opinion changed considerably. First the good news... The wheel
pants,
> gear legs and the panel were very nice. Now the rest of the story...
> The fit & finish was about the worst I had ever seen on an RV.
> The fit around the cowl was horrendous, with several different type
> screws used with different type washers and the cowl screws were not
in
> a row, some were offset high and low. The baggage door was not aligned
> well and there was filler between some metal pieces that was only
> partially filled and partially left "mounded" then painted over. It
> looked awful!. The wing tips were not cut back to match the trailing
> edge of the ailerons. (I have not started that part of the build yet
but
> I understand they should line up).
> By far the worst part and something I thought was a real danger
> were the back sides of the fiberglass tips to the horizontal
stabilizer.
> They were left hollow, rough cut and very flexible. I was actually
> horrified that this portion of the build was not completed. I could
not
> imagine that that was airworthy. As you can guess the fit of the doors
> was not acceptable to me but they were not that far off. And of course
> there was complete cracking around each window. I did end up taking
some
> detailed photos of the plane and keep them filed in my "RV Pictures"
> folder under the file name "Ugly RV-10." I don't intend to be cruel
but
> the attention to detail was completely lacking and all that hard work
of
> construction was wasted by not spending 200-400 more hours on doing
> things right. One of my first thoughts was if the appearance items
look
> this bad I wonder what it's like in places you don't easily see.
> As I was finishing my photo shoot the owner came out from the
> restaurant and we had the opportunity to chat. She was an older lady
> (~65) that had purchased the plane from Alabama/Mississippi or the
like.
> She was based at Santa Paula Airport (SZP) about 70 miles south of me.
> That day she was giving a hangar neighbor acquaintance of mine a ride
to
> SZP to pick up his beautiful Cessna 170 from service. I remember
> thinking to myself... well at least the plane has two pilots onboard
in
> case there is an "issue."
> Please note I do not wish to be malicious but the plane had
> obvious flaws in craftsmanship. Like most incidents it's usually pilot
> problems before plane problems.
> Attached are some photos from the visit.
>
> Robin
>
>
>
>
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<B - The RV10-List Email Forum -
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Message 4
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Oil Canning
A moderate deformation or buckling of sheet material, particularly
common with flat sheet metal surfaces. Typically caused by uneven
stresses at the fastening points. This terminology also refers to the
popping sound made when pressure is applied to the deformed sheet
forcing the deformation in the opposite direction.
Oil canning can be defined as the actual waviness in the flat areas of
roofing and siding panels. Generally the period and amplitude of the
wave depend on the continuous width of the flat.
Oil canning is an inherent part of light gauge cold formed metal
products, particularly those with broad flat areas. Profiles having wide
flat surfaces are often referred to as "architectural" roofing and
siding panels. Such panels are distinguished from corrugated shapes as
the latter are more fluted in design, have much narrower flats, and are
less likely to exhibit oil canning.
Background
Oil canning has a number of causes:
1. Metal coil
Residual stresses induced during coil production can contribute.
Examples of other contributing features are:
a. Full center - the coil is longer in the middle of the strip; this is
the most common example. (The gradation manifests as ripples or buckles
near mid-coil.)
b. Wavy edge - the coil is longer on the edge of the strip.
c. Camber - the deviation of a side edge from a straight line. (This is
not always a problem.)
These conditions exist to some extent in all metal and tend to become
more exaggerated as the strength level of the rolled sheet product
increases and also for thinner and wider sheet product. When excessive,
each circumstance may cause oil canning after roll forming by the
manufacturer.
2. Fabrication
a. Slitting - The slitting of a master coil can release and redistribute
residual forces. The coil's esponse can create or increase oil canning.
The economics of rolling and coating wider coils makes slitting almost
mandatory.
b.Forming - New residual stresses can be created during some forming
operations. Architectural panel profiles typically require more forming
along sides than in the middle, and often require more forming along one
side than the other. This dictates that forming commences along the
sides. This sequential "working" of the sheet will have a tendency to
"trap" uneven metal contained within the coil in the panel central areas
(corrugated ribbed profiles are most often worked from the center out,
thereby "pushing" the uneven metal to the edges).
3. Installation
a. Misalignment of the support system - Structural supports that are
produced, fabricated and installed within allowable tolerances can
create a "non-planar" or contoured bearing surface. Stresses induced
while panels conform to this surface can contribute to oil canning.
b. Over engagement of panels - Most panels accommodate transverse
thermal expansion by flexing of webs and by "take up" at side joints.
When panels are over engaged, these relief features are hindered or
eliminated. In the extreme the "over engagement" process itself can
generate waviness. Either cause can contribute to oil canning.
c. Over driving of fasteners - This operation creates stresses in the
panel and provides a "reading line" at the fasteners.
d. Longitudinal Expansion - The surface temperature of exposed panels
cycles throughout the year and even fluctuates daily. The temperature
and the cycle depend on many variables, e.g. project location and
orientation, cloud cover, panel inclination, surface finish or color,
system thermal insulation characteristics. The panels' physical response
is to expand or contract. If panels are restrained by "thru-fasteners",
clips, or perimeter details, they try to accommodate or relieve thermal
forces through several mechanisms, i.e. "slotting" around fasteners,
out-of plane "bowing", local distortion of flat areas - "waviness". The
magnitude of thermal force depends on the restraint provided (hence the
panel stiffness and support stiffness), on the base materials' physical
properties, and on the temperature differential between the support
structure and the external skin. Waviness can be amplified when there is
uneven fastener restraint along the panel. Such restraint is common on
"concealed fastener" systems having fasteners along one edge and an
interlock along the other. Waviness caused by thermal forces differs
from other forms of oil canning in that waves can appear and disappear
as the sun rises and moves around the building.
e. Movement of the primary structure - Excessive differential
deflection, racking, drift, or settlement within the primary structure
can cause noticeable waviness within panel flats. This distortion can be
temporary or sustained.
f. Handling - Carrying of panels in the flat or twisting of panels can
induce a wavy appearance to a previously flat panel. Twisting can occur
if one corner of a panel is used to lift a panel or to remove the panel
from a bundle.
Coil producers and panel manufacturers attempt to minimize these
conditions and produce quality products. On going research seeks
improved production methods. All of the above factors can and do occur
and can cause oil canning in architectural roofing or siding products.
While a number of factors dictate the panel design, the following are
items that the designer, panel manufacturer, and erector may consider in
reducing the occurrence of oil canning:
1. Coil:
Tension or stretcher leveling, a process whereby the metal is
"stretched" in coil form beyond its yield point, will provide a flatter
surface less prone to oil canning. In general the heavier the gauge the
less likely a product is to oil can. The possibility of oil canning can
be reduced by ordering tension leveled and re-squared material.
2. Design:
The addition of stiffening beads "breaks-up" the flat surface and makes
oil canning less apparent. Embossing will also help hide surface
waviness in the metal. The selection of lower gloss coatings and lighter
colors tend to minimize the visual effect of oil canning.
3. Installation:
More stringent specifications regarding the alignment of the supporting
structure will focus attention on this critical aspect. Instructions to
the erection forces regarding proper handling, spacing, and fastening
should be a part of the manufacturers' delivery packet.
Conclusion
Oil canning is an aesthetic problem. Normally structural integrity is
not affected. However, structural integrity must be reviewed if the
distortion results from an extreme external influence. Since many
uncontrollable factors are involved, no manufacturer can realistically
assure the total elimination of oil canning. With careful attention to
the production and selection of material, to the panel design, and to
installation practice, oil canning can be effectively minimized.
Unless specified tolerances have been accepted by the panel provider and
panel manufacturer and are incorporated into the contract documents
prior to fabrication, and if reasonable precautions have been taken, oil
canning is not grounds for panel rejection.
John Cox
#600
Message 5
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I just downloaded a demo of this program on my MAC.
Are there any instructions on how to get started, ie, set it up for
my log book, airplane?
Richard Reynolds
Message 6
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Off to the shed this morning to fix yesterdays mistake.....thought I had
placed the wingtip in the correct position, that is, centrally located
inside the nose of the wing skin, and started fixing. Turns out I was
off by around 1/4" and multiplying the error as I tried to coax the rest
of the tip into shape. By the end I had introduced a substantial reflex
on the trailing edge creating a mini,"up elevator".
I was initially tempted to make the adjustment by splitting the trailing
edge, since you have to trim it to size in any case but was worried by
the result Tim Olson ended up with (see his website for info) and
decided just to do it again properly. In hindsight I should've packed
out the substantially flattened tip with something to encourage the
correct shape before commencing with the fitting.
When I re-tried the fit, I found a sweeter position 1/4'' away, but it
was by no means obvious.
Today I'll be fibreglassing over the incorrect holes.
Something for someone yet to do this step.
John 40315 (Finishing all the things I put off 'till tomorrow)
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Pitot/Static fittings on TruTrak Digflight ll VSVG |
Why is it called 1/8" anyway? it's not close to anything on the fitting or
the instrument itself. I think it took me 2 weeks to learn this not too
long ago.
Anh
N591VU Flying
----- Original Message -----
From: <millstees@ameritech.net>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 9:58 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Pitot/Static fittings on TruTrak Digflight ll VSVG
>
>
>
> Deems:
>
> It's normal 1/8" pipe thread. I used nylo-seal fitting, and they went
> right
> in. And, the same fitting fit all instruments, as well as, the TT.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Steve Mills N750SM (reserved)
> RV-10 40486 Slow-build Eggenfellner E-6T
> Naperville, Illinois
> Finishing kit
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 8:37 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Pitot/Static fittings on TruTrak Digflight ll VSVG
>
>
> Has anyone had any difficulty with attaching pitot/static lines to the
> Tru-Trak A/P?
> I've got the pitot/static kit from Safeair, and it has the 'instant'
> brass fittings that you screw into the various instruments and then push
> the
> poly tubing into. The brass fittings fit into the encoder, the ADC, the
> Dynon EFIS, but NOT the Tru Trak, When I attempt to screw them in they
> begin
> to cock to one side, forcing it will result in the threads being stripped.
> it appears that the holes that are tapped in what appears to be a black
> plastic fitting on the rear of the Tru Trak are slightly smaller (rough
> measurement w/ caliper confirms. Anybody know what size threads these are?
> I
> checked the install manual but nothing referenced there.
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> 'Its all done....Its just not put together'
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Puzzled, perplex & confused in the fuse .... |
Hi
As I continue to build I have found that when anything didn't seem right in
the kit, it was because of the then builder not getting the right slot "a"
lined up with the right slot "b". Until now that is..
I have spent the priming and deburring parts associated with Secton 28 - the
mid fuse. I started to assemble the forward fuselage bulkhead sub-assembly
(Page 28-4) and found that the inboard forward seat rail support just won't
fit. The bolt / rivet holes that should match the corresponding holes on the
F1043A L/R & F1043B L/R bulkheads are two close by about 1/8". The nut
plate hole that should match the hole in the F1043B L/R flange is too far
forward by 1/16" inch.
The outboard seat rail supports fix perfectly.
I have assembled the inboard seat rail supports correctly (see page 28-3)
(there is really only one way to make the supports).
Has anyone else run into this problem? Any suggestions? I would like to
press on building this weekend and plan to call Van's on Monday.
Cheers
Les Kearney
#40643 - frustrated in the fuse ..
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