Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:20 AM - prop torque help (Chris and Susie McGough)
2. 01:42 AM - Re: prop torque help (Jesse Saint)
3. 01:56 AM - Re: prop torque help (Chris and Susie McGough)
4. 04:16 AM - Re: prop torque help (John Cleary)
5. 04:26 AM - Re: prop torque help (Chris and Susie McGough)
6. 08:54 AM - cabin top trimming (Chris Hukill)
7. 09:16 AM - Re: FW: WD-1002 / F1001B / F1040 Fuse channel rivet holes (LES KEARNEY)
8. 09:16 AM - Prop Arc Size Question (johngoodman)
9. 09:44 AM - Re: Prop Arc Size Question (James K Hovis)
10. 10:01 AM - Re: Prop Arc Size Question (Tim Olson)
11. 10:12 AM - Re: cabin top trimming (Jesse Saint)
12. 11:58 AM - Re: cabin top trimming (John Hilger)
13. 04:03 PM - FPS Lessons Learnt (McGANN, Ron)
14. 05:02 PM - Seat rivets LP4-3 vs CS4-4 (Jae Chang)
15. 05:29 PM - Re: Seat rivets LP4-3 vs CS4-4 (Scott Schmidt)
16. 05:31 PM - Re: Prop Arc Size Question (johngoodman)
17. 05:32 PM - Re: Seat rivets LP4-3 vs CS4-4 (Jesse Saint)
18. 05:59 PM - Re: FW: WD-1002 / F1001B / F1040 Fuse channel rivet holes (Les Kearney)
19. 06:22 PM - Re: FPS Lessons Learnt (John W. Cox)
20. 06:56 PM - Re: FPS Lessons Learnt (David McNeill)
21. 06:59 PM - Re: FW: WD-1002 / F1001B / F1040 Fuse channel rivet holes (John W. Cox)
22. 07:03 PM - Re: FPS Lessons Learnt (McGANN, Ron)
23. 07:36 PM - Family project (tganster)
24. 08:20 PM - Re: FPS Lessons Learnt (John Dunne)
25. 08:36 PM - Glasair III Engine/Fuel Problem (darnpilot@aol.com)
26. 08:38 PM - Re: FPS Lessons Learnt (McGANN, Ron)
27. 08:49 PM - Re: Glasair III Engine/Fuel Problem (David McNeill)
28. 09:08 PM - Re: Glasair III Engine/Fuel Problem (darnpilot@aol.com)
29. 09:11 PM - Re: Glasair III Engine/Fuel Problem ()
30. 10:17 PM - Re: Glasair III Engine/Fuel Problem (Dave Saylor)
31. 10:26 PM - Reality Check - cost of an RV10 (AirMike)
32. 10:53 PM - Re: Reality Check - cost of an RV10 (McGANN, Ron)
Message 1
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| Subject: | prop torque help |
Guys I am having trouble working this out and each time get a different
figure.
I have an extention on a torque wrench and need to calculate the new
torque.
The torque without the extention is 60-70 FT pounds
The formular is
Actual torque required X torque wrench length = Torque wrench
reading to acheive required torque
Torque wrench lengh + length of adapter
Torque wrench is 16 1/2 inches and the adapter is 3 inches
Have a go please
regards Chris
Message 2
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| Subject: | prop torque help |
If you have the normal click-head wrench, then I have had trouble with the
formula as well. A big mechanics shop told me they put the extension/crows
foot at a right angle from the torque wrench and then the normal torque
holds true. Don't ask me to explain it mathematically, but that is their
rule of thumb so I used the same.
Bracing!
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
_____
From: Chris and Susie McGough [mailto:VHMUM@bigpond.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 2:20 AM
Subject: RV10-List: prop torque help
Guys I am having trouble working this out and each time get a different
figure.
I have an extention on a torque wrench and need to calculate the new torque.
The torque without the extention is 60-70 FT pounds
The formular is
Actual torque required X torque wrench length = Torque wrench
reading to acheive required torque
Torque wrench lengh + length of adapter
Torque wrench is 16 1/2 inches and the adapter is 3 inches
Have a go please
regards Chris
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: prop torque help |
Thanks Jesse on another list I got this
http://www.norbar.com/torquewrenchextensioncalculator.php
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Jesse Saint
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 6:40 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: prop torque help
If you have the normal click-head wrench, then I have had trouble with
the formula as well. A big mechanics shop told me they put the
extension/crows foot at a right angle from the torque wrench and then
the normal torque holds true. Don't ask me to explain it
mathematically, but that is their rule of thumb so I used the same.
Bracing!
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: Chris and Susie McGough [mailto:VHMUM@bigpond.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 2:20 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: prop torque help
Guys I am having trouble working this out and each time get a
different figure.
I have an extention on a torque wrench and need to calculate the new
torque.
The torque without the extention is 60-70 FT pounds
The formular is
Actual torque required X torque wrench length = Torque
wrench reading to acheive required torque
Torque wrench lengh + length of adapter
Torque wrench is 16 1/2 inches and the adapter is 3 inches
Have a go please
regards Chris
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | prop torque help |
Chris,
I get 50.8 ' 59.23 calculated, with the torque extended 3=94
John
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and
Susie
McGough
Sent: Tuesday, 23 October 2007 5:20 PM
Subject: RV10-List: prop torque help
Guys I am having trouble working this out and each time get a different
figure.
I have an extention on a torque wrench and need to calculate the new
torque.
The torque without the extention is 60-70 FT pounds
The formular is
Actual torque required X torque wrench length = Torque wrench
reading to acheive required torque
Torque wrench lengh + length of adapter
Torque wrench is 16 1/2 inches and the adapter is 3 inches
Have a go please
regards Chris
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"http://www.matronics.com/Na
vig
ator?RV10-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
22/10/2007
7:57 PM
22/10/2007
7:57 PM
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: prop torque help |
John thanks Just torqued up and wired tonight...time for bed thanks all
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: John Cleary
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:14 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: prop torque help
Chris,
I get 50.8 ' 59.23 calculated, with the torque extended 3=94
John
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and
Susie McGough
Sent: Tuesday, 23 October 2007 5:20 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: prop torque help
Guys I am having trouble working this out and each time get a
different figure.
I have an extention on a torque wrench and need to calculate the new
torque.
The torque without the extention is 60-70 FT pounds
The formular is
Actual torque required X torque wrench length = Torque
wrench reading to acheive required torque
Torque wrench lengh + length of adapter
Torque wrench is 16 1/2 inches and the adapter is 3 inches
Have a go please
regards Chris
Release Date: 22/10/2007 7:57 PM
22/10/2007 7:57 PM
Message 6
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| Subject: | cabin top trimming |
I am to the point of attaching the tailcone, however I won't have room
for the combined length of the assembly in my hanger for a few months.
So I am considering doing the trimming and fitting of the cabin top
without the tailcone attached. Besides not being able to fit and drill
the aft flange of the top, is there any reason I couldn't fit the rest
of the top? Has anyone that has gone before me have any input on this?
Thanks
Chris Hukill
potential plan deviant
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: WD-1002 / F1001B / F1040 Fuse channel rivet holes |
Hi Jae
I was really looking forward to those knife edge maneuvers and now you say I can't
do them!!!! Rats!!!
Seriously though, I agree with the longitudinal assessment. My concern is that
there is a lateral stress setup as I had to clamp and squeeze the WD1002 flange
outward to get the edge clearance achieved.
I have spoken to Vans, sent them some info and am awaiting a response from their
engineering department. It would be good if the plans:
specified the minimum acceptable edge clearance given that we are talking about
steel parts held with aluminium rivets
specified how to clamp (and perhaps to what extent) to get this edge clearance.
Better yet would be to make the parts so that this is a non issue. Adding 1/2"
to the flange would be a perfect solution.
I will post whatever info comes back from Vans
Cheers
Les
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jae Chang
> Sent: October-22-07 11:13 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: WD-1002 / F1001B / F1040 Fuse channel
> rivet holes
>
> matronics_rv10@jline.com>
> Les... yes, i would give Vans a call just to put your mind at
> ease. i
> did. the 3/32" edge distance sounds and looks about right. i may
> even
> have some of the furthest aft holes with even less edge
> distance. from
> what i remember, i was told loads are mainly longitudinal and
> not
> lateral here. thus, the rivets would break long before the
> steel. if you
> do a lot of knife-edge maneuvers, then there might be cause for
> concern. ;)
>
> i think you are referring to this area:
> http://www.jline.com/log/aviation/build/airframe/fuselage/sec29_fuse_side_sk
> ins/photos/IMG_4637.html
>
> calling Section 29 "frustrating", is putting it mildly!
>
> jae
> 40533
> floors
>
> Les Kearney wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > Last night I started match drilling the holes in the WD1002
> steel
> > weldment that is attached to the firewall. Using the guide
> holes in
> > the F-1001B as a guide and _after_ clamping the top WD-1002
> flange to
> > get the best edge clearance possible, I still only got a 3/32
> edge
> > clearance (measured from the edge of the rivet hole) on most
> of the
> > holes.
> >
> > Given that that the weldments are steel and not aluminium is
> this edge
> > clearance sufficient?
> >
> > The archives indicate that that these parts have been
> problematic for
> > some. Based on what I read, I knew to be fairly aggressive in
> clamping
> > the parts to get the most clearance possible. Interestingly, I
> did
> > have to shim the side (towards the skin) WD-1002 flanges about
> a 1/8"
> > to get reasonable edge clearance. Even so, the maximum edge
> clearance
> > would be just over 1/8" if the rivets were evenly spaced on
> the
> > flange. This suggests that 3/16" spacing might be okay in this
> > application.
> >
> > Personally, I think this is one area where the plans should
> give the
> > builder a bit of a heads up as to what to do and what to expect.
> >
> > Any comments or should I talk to the Van's order desk yet again..
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Les Kearney
> >
> > #40643 - Frustrated in the fuse ..
> >
> > *
> > *
>
> RV10-List Email Forum -
> _-
> = - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Prop Arc Size Question |
Getting ready to install my InAir LRI and need to keep it 24 inches outside the
prop arc. It's 4 feet out on the wing to an ideal inspection port, but need to
know the largest prop arc out there. Thanks.
John
--------
#40572 QB Wings, QB Fuse arrived
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141315#141315
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Prop Arc Size Question |
Measure the height to the center of your spinner (or center of the
prop attach flange on the engine) with engine installed from the
ground and subtract 9 inches. This will give you the the radius of
the maximum prop arc based on typical aircraft design practice:
provide minimum of 9" ground clearance for a prop arc.
Kevin Hovis.
On 10/23/07, johngoodman <johngoodman@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Getting ready to install my InAir LRI and need to keep it 24 inches outside
> the prop arc. It's 4 feet out on the wing to an ideal inspection port, but
> need to know the largest prop arc out there. Thanks.
> John
>
> --------
> #40572 QB Wings, QB Fuse arrived
> N711JG reserved
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141315#141315
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Prop Arc Size Question |
Well, it's an 80" prop, so 40" is the arc....so 64" as the minimum.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
johngoodman wrote:
>
> Getting ready to install my InAir LRI and need to keep it 24 inches outside the
prop arc. It's 4 feet out on the wing to an ideal inspection port, but need
to know the largest prop arc out there. Thanks.
> John
>
> --------
> #40572 QB Wings, QB Fuse arrived
> N711JG reserved
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141315#141315
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | cabin top trimming |
The main issue here would be that you need to make sure that the at flange
of the cabin top is even with the top of the aft baggage bulkhead. If you
can make sure that this fits (the side flanges of the cabin top are not
enough to ensure this fit), then I see no reason you couldn't do it ahead of
time. Note that trimming around the door openings affects this fit.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
_____
From: Chris Hukill [mailto:cjhukill@cox.net]
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:04 AM
Subject: RV10-List: cabin top trimming
I am to the point of attaching the tailcone, however I won't have room for
the combined length of the assembly in my hanger for a few months. So I am
considering doing the trimming and fitting of the cabin top without the
tailcone attached. Besides not being able to fit and drill the aft flange of
the top, is there any reason I couldn't fit the rest of the top? Has anyone
that has gone before me have any input on this?
Thanks
Chris Hukill
potential plan deviant
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: cabin top trimming |
Chris
You might consider doing the wheel pants, gear leg, and intersection
fairings.
That might keep you busy for a while.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Hukill
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:03 AM
Subject: RV10-List: cabin top trimming
I am to the point of attaching the tailcone, however I won't have room
for the combined length of the assembly in my hanger for a few months.
So I am considering doing the trimming and fitting of the cabin top
without the tailcone attached. Besides not being able to fit and drill
the aft flange of the top, is there any reason I couldn't fit the rest
of the top? Has anyone that has gone before me have any input on this?
Thanks
Chris Hukill
potential plan deviant
Message 13
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| Subject: | FPS Lessons Learnt |
G'day all,
Checked the wiring of the Flap Positioning System again last night. As
a professional Electrical Engineer, I confirmed that there was no wiring
issue and was convinced the FPS controller was stuffed. So I removed it
and disassembled it. Here is what I discovered:
1=2E the controller consists of 2 relays, 2 diodes and two fusible
links. Cost of the components is about $15. The $225 cost of the unit
is extortionate.
2=2E One of the fusible links had opened.
3=2E A check of the switches on the switch bracket indicated that the
retract switch was not properly engaged by the positioning rod (ie the
switch was not closed)
So, when the flaps were originally activated, extend worked fine.
Because the retract switch was not properly engaged (probably
intermittent), the flaps would not retract. If the flaps will not
retract using the FPS, the only way to retract them is to apply reverse
voltage directly to the flap motor. But if the FPS is connected, this
will send power the wrong way through the control box and cause one of
the fusible links to open.
In summary, there was no initial problem with the controller. The
problem was misaligned switches on the switch bracket. Manually
retracting the flaps while the FPS was connected cooked the controller
and rendered retract permanently u/s.
So here are the lessons:
1=2E The electronics in the FPS are trivial. If you have an FPS
problem it will be very unlikely to be a fault in the controller.
2=2E If the flaps fail to extend or retract, confirm that the
microswitches are being properly opened/closed by the positioning rod
along its travel.
3=2E use a molex or equivalent connector at the flap motor/actuator
connector so that the flap can be extended/retracted manually with the
controller installed (but disconnected).
I can't see any really compelling reaon for the fusible links, so
replaced them with #28 wire - be buggered if I was going to spend
another US$225 on a repalcement unit. Checked the switch alignment and
bench tested out ok. Will reinstall the electronics in a new case and
remount in the tunnel tomorrow night.
Hope this helps for those yet to install.
Ron
-187 finishing (probably forever!!!)
"Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached files is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
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taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
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Message 14
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| Subject: | Seat rivets LP4-3 vs CS4-4 |
On page 35-3, did anyone else find it odd that the rear seats are
riveted down with LP4-3, instead of CS4-4, like it is on all the other
flat floor surfaces? I would much prefer floor a flat surface with CS4-4's.
I am tempted to dimple everything and put in CS4-4's. Did anyone manage
to do this? Hopefully, there were no ill-effects?
Jae
40533
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Seat rivets LP4-3 vs CS4-4 |
It doesn't really matter once you put a carpet kit in like Abby at Flightli
ne sells then the cushions. =0A =0AScott Schmidt=0Ascottmschmidt@yahoo.com
=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10@jlin
e.com>=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 6:01
:38 PM=0ASubject: RV10-List: Seat rivets LP4-3 vs CS4-4=0A=0A=0A--> RV10-Li
st message posted by: Jae Chang=0A <jc-matronics_rv10@jline.com>=0A=0AOn pa
ge 35-3, did anyone else find it odd that the rear seats are =0Ariveted dow
n with LP4-3, instead of CS4-4, like it is on all the other =0Aflat floor s
urfaces? I would much prefer floor a flat surface with=0A CS4-4's.=0A=0AI a
m tempted to dimple everything and put in CS4-4's. Did anyone manage=0A =0A
to do this? Hopefully, there were no ill-effects?=0A=0AJae=0A40533=0A=0A=0A
========================0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Prop Arc Size Question |
Since I'm still just doing wings and Fuselage, I don't have an engine, hence the
question. But thanks, I've got the info I need. It's about 2 feet from the spinner
to the wing root, so another 40 inches brings it very close to the bay
I want to use. I'll probably play it safe and move it out one more bay.
John
--------
#40572 QB Wings, QB Fuse arrived
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141409#141409
Message 17
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| Subject: | Seat rivets LP4-3 vs CS4-4 |
It works both ways. The reason, I think (no structural engineering
included), is that the seat cushions go on top of this area, so there is not
much worry about things catching on the round-head rivets. On the floors
there is more of an issue because things will be going in and out (this
effect is eliminated, of course, if you put some kind of rugs in).
As far as the structural issues, you would need to take that up with Van's.
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: Jae Chang [mailto:jc-matronics_rv10@jline.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 7:02 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Seat rivets LP4-3 vs CS4-4
On page 35-3, did anyone else find it odd that the rear seats are
riveted down with LP4-3, instead of CS4-4, like it is on all the other
flat floor surfaces? I would much prefer floor a flat surface with CS4-4's.
I am tempted to dimple everything and put in CS4-4's. Did anyone manage
to do this? Hopefully, there were no ill-effects?
Jae
40533
Message 18
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| Subject: | WD-1002 / F1001B / F1040 Fuse channel rivet holes |
Hi Again
I heard back from Ken at Van's. According to Ken, the engineering group is
not concerned about the 3/32 edge clearance that I achieved.
I also have a gap between the F1001B and the F1040 fuse channel at the
forward end that I don't think will close when riveted. They said I could
shim the gap if desired.
Cheers
Les
#40643 - Singing the Section 29 Blues..
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LES KEARNEY
Sent: October-23-07 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: FW: RV10-List: WD-1002 / F1001B / F1040 Fuse channel rivet
holes
Hi Jae
I was really looking forward to those knife edge maneuvers and now you say I
can't do them!!!! Rats!!!
Seriously though, I agree with the longitudinal assessment. My concern is
that there is a lateral stress setup as I had to clamp and squeeze the
WD1002 flange outward to get the edge clearance achieved.
I have spoken to Vans, sent them some info and am awaiting a response from
their engineering department. It would be good if the plans:
1. specified the minimum acceptable edge clearance given that we are
talking about steel parts held with aluminium rivets
2. specified how to clamp (and perhaps to what extent) to get this edge
clearance.
Better yet would be to make the parts so that this is a non issue. Adding
1/2" to the flange would be a perfect solution.
I will post whatever info comes back from Vans
Cheers
Les
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jae Chang
> Sent: October-22-07 11:13 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: WD-1002 / F1001B / F1040 Fuse channel
> rivet holes
>
> matronics_rv10@jline.com>
> Les... yes, i would give Vans a call just to put your mind at
> ease. i
> did. the 3/32" edge distance sounds and looks about right. i may
> even
> have some of the furthest aft holes with even less edge
> distance. from
> what i remember, i was told loads are mainly longitudinal and
> not
> lateral here. thus, the rivets would break long before the
> steel. if you
> do a lot of knife-edge maneuvers, then there might be cause for
> concern. ;)
>
> i think you are referring to this area:
>
http://www.jline.com/log/aviation/build/airframe/fuselage/sec29_fuse_side_sk
> ins/photos/IMG_4637.html
>
> calling Section 29 "frustrating", is putting it mildly!
>
> jae
> 40533
> floors
>
> Les Kearney wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > Last night I started match drilling the holes in the WD1002
> steel
> > weldment that is attached to the firewall. Using the guide
> holes in
> > the F-1001B as a guide and _after_ clamping the top WD-1002
> flange to
> > get the best edge clearance possible, I still only got a 3/32
> edge
> > clearance (measured from the edge of the rivet hole) on most
> of the
> > holes.
> >
> > Given that that the weldments are steel and not aluminium is
> this edge
> > clearance sufficient?
> >
> > The archives indicate that that these parts have been
> problematic for
> > some. Based on what I read, I knew to be fairly aggressive in
> clamping
> > the parts to get the most clearance possible. Interestingly, I
> did
> > have to shim the side (towards the skin) WD-1002 flanges about
> a 1/8"
> > to get reasonable edge clearance. Even so, the maximum edge
> clearance
> > would be just over 1/8" if the rivets were evenly spaced on
> the
> > flange. This suggests that 3/16" spacing might be okay in this
> > application.
> >
> > Personally, I think this is one area where the plans should
> give the
> > builder a bit of a heads up as to what to do and what to expect.
> >
> > Any comments or should I talk to the Van's order desk yet again..
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Les Kearney
> >
> > #40643 - Frustrated in the fuse ..
> >
> > *
> > *
>
> RV10-List Email Forum -
> _-
> = - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | FPS Lessons Learnt |
Ron, that does indeed help but would be even better if you would
recommend components that us Amateur Radio types should kludge together
to make a superior product. Would gladly send you money to offset the
professional report.
John Cox
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 4:02 PM
Subject: RV10-List: FPS Lessons Learnt
G'day all,
Checked the wiring of the Flap Positioning System again last night. As
a professional Electrical Engineer, I confirmed that there was no wiring
issue and was convinced the FPS controller was stuffed. So I removed it
and disassembled it. Here is what I discovered:
1. the controller consists of 2 relays, 2 diodes and two fusible
links. Cost of the components is about $15. The $225 cost of the unit
is extortionate.
2. One of the fusible links had opened.
3. A check of the switches on the switch bracket indicated that the
retract switch was not properly engaged by the positioning rod (ie the
switch was not closed)
So, when the flaps were originally activated, extend worked fine.
Because the retract switch was not properly engaged (probably
intermittent), the flaps would not retract. If the flaps will not
retract using the FPS, the only way to retract them is to apply reverse
voltage directly to the flap motor. But if the FPS is connected, this
will send power the wrong way through the control box and cause one of
the fusible links to open.
In summary, there was no initial problem with the controller. The
problem was misaligned switches on the switch bracket. Manually
retracting the flaps while the FPS was connected cooked the controller
and rendered retract permanently u/s.
So here are the lessons:
1. The electronics in the FPS are trivial. If you have an FPS
problem it will be very unlikely to be a fault in the controller.
2. If the flaps fail to extend or retract, confirm that the
microswitches are being properly opened/closed by the positioning rod
along its travel.
3. use a molex or equivalent connector at the flap motor/actuator
connector so that the flap can be extended/retracted manually with the
controller installed (but disconnected).
I can't see any really compelling reaon for the fusible links, so
replaced them with #28 wire - be buggered if I was going to spend
another US$225 on a repalcement unit. Checked the switch alignment and
bench tested out ok. Will reinstall the electronics in a new case and
remount in the tunnel tomorrow night.
Hope this helps for those yet to install.
Ron
-187 finishing (probably forever!!!)
"Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached files is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
your computer."
Message 20
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| Subject: | FPS Lessons Learnt |
He makes me glad I returned mine for credit.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 6:21 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: FPS Lessons Learnt
Ron, that does indeed help but would be even better if you would recommend
components that us Amateur Radio types should kludge together to make a
superior product. Would gladly send you money to offset the professional
report.
John Cox
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 4:02 PM
Subject: RV10-List: FPS Lessons Learnt
G'day all,
Checked the wiring of the Flap Positioning System again last night. As a
professional Electrical Engineer, I confirmed that there was no wiring issue
and was convinced the FPS controller was stuffed. So I removed it and
disassembled it. Here is what I discovered:
1. the controller consists of 2 relays, 2 diodes and two fusible links.
Cost of the components is about $15. The $225 cost of the unit is
extortionate.
2. One of the fusible links had opened.
3. A check of the switches on the switch bracket indicated that the
retract switch was not properly engaged by the positioning rod (ie the
switch was not closed)
So, when the flaps were originally activated, extend worked fine. Because
the retract switch was not properly engaged (probably intermittent), the
flaps would not retract. If the flaps will not retract using the FPS, the
only way to retract them is to apply reverse voltage directly to the flap
motor. But if the FPS is connected, this will send power the wrong way
through the control box and cause one of the fusible links to open.
In summary, there was no initial problem with the controller. The problem
was misaligned switches on the switch bracket. Manually retracting the
flaps while the FPS was connected cooked the controller and rendered retract
permanently u/s.
So here are the lessons:
1. The electronics in the FPS are trivial. If you have an FPS problem
it will be very unlikely to be a fault in the controller.
2. If the flaps fail to extend or retract, confirm that the
microswitches are being properly opened/closed by the positioning rod along
its travel.
3. use a molex or equivalent connector at the flap motor/actuator
connector so that the flap can be extended/retracted manually with the
controller installed (but disconnected).
I can't see any really compelling reaon for the fusible links, so replaced
them with #28 wire - be buggered if I was going to spend another US$225 on a
repalcement unit. Checked the switch alignment and bench tested out ok.
Will reinstall the electronics in a new case and remount in the tunnel
tomorrow night.
Hope this helps for those yet to install.
Ron
-187 finishing (probably forever!!!)
"Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached files is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
your computer."
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
<http://forums.matronics.com> http://forums.matronics.com
Message 21
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| Subject: | WD-1002 / F1001B / F1040 Fuse channel rivet holes |
Les, was that Ken Krueger or Ken Scott that quoted for the whole
engineering department/ group at VANS? If you heard that in writing,
could you (Please) post it so that others can base their build technique
on it as well. Their professional knowledge base and academic training
are vastly differing between the two Ken's.
A 2X rivet diameter to edge distance is a fairly solid and hard rule to
avoid both stress cracks and tears on military, civil air carrier and
certified general aviation build aeroplanes. I have both the US Army
DOD Structural Manual and the Naval Aviator's Manuals, The Canadian
Bombardier Structural Aircraft Manual along with the FAA AC 43.13. Would
anyone else like another Aviation Structural Engineer's written opinion
before proceeding with reduced edge distances? If it is a modern change,
I am all for modifying decades old technique.
Gosh, And why is it that I always seem like the bad guy when following
an established construction technique? Must be the weather out here.
Don't take any of this personally I have to maintain French Canadian
designed and built aircraft every night. Epic Aircraft found it
advantageous to move from Oregon to Canada for a most interesting
reason.
I am not even going there on the subject of closing gaps with shim
material before anchoring skins with solid rivet fasteners.
John Cox - KUAO
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 5:59 PM
Subject: RE: FW: RV10-List: WD-1002 / F1001B / F1040 Fuse channel rivet
holes
Hi Again
I heard back from Ken at Van's. According to Ken, the engineering group
is not concerned about the 3/32 edge clearance that I achieved.
I also have a gap between the F1001B and the F1040 fuse channel at the
forward end that I don't think will close when riveted. They said I
could shim the gap if desired.
Cheers
Les
#40643 - Singing the Section 29 Blues....
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LES KEARNEY
Sent: October-23-07 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: FW: RV10-List: WD-1002 / F1001B / F1040 Fuse channel rivet
holes
Hi Jae
I was really looking forward to those knife edge maneuvers and now you
say I can't do them!!!! Rats!!!
Seriously though, I agree with the longitudinal assessment. My concern
is that there is a lateral stress setup as I had to clamp and squeeze
the WD1002 flange outward to get the edge clearance achieved.
I have spoken to Vans, sent them some info and am awaiting a response
from their engineering department. It would be good if the plans:
1. specified the minimum acceptable edge clearance given that we
are talking about steel parts held with aluminium rivets
2. specified how to clamp (and perhaps to what extent) to get this
edge clearance.
Better yet would be to make the parts so that this is a non issue.
Adding 1/2" to the flange would be a perfect solution.
I will post whatever info comes back from Vans
Cheers
Les
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jae Chang
> Sent: October-22-07 11:13 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: WD-1002 / F1001B / F1040 Fuse channel
> rivet holes
>
> matronics_rv10@jline.com>
> Les... yes, i would give Vans a call just to put your mind at
> ease. i
> did. the 3/32" edge distance sounds and looks about right. i may
> even
> have some of the furthest aft holes with even less edge
> distance. from
> what i remember, i was told loads are mainly longitudinal and
> not
> lateral here. thus, the rivets would break long before the
> steel. if you
> do a lot of knife-edge maneuvers, then there might be cause for
> concern. ;)
>
> i think you are referring to this area:
>
http://www.jline.com/log/aviation/build/airframe/fuselage/sec29_fuse_sid
e_sk
> ins/photos/IMG_4637.html
>
> calling Section 29 "frustrating", is putting it mildly!
>
> jae
> 40533
> floors
>
> Les Kearney wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > Last night I started match drilling the holes in the WD1002
> steel
> > weldment that is attached to the firewall. Using the guide
> holes in
> > the F-1001B as a guide and _after_ clamping the top WD-1002
> flange to
> > get the best edge clearance possible, I still only got a 3/32
> edge
> > clearance (measured from the edge of the rivet hole) on most
> of the
> > holes.
> >
> > Given that that the weldments are steel and not aluminium is
> this edge
> > clearance sufficient?
> >
> > The archives indicate that that these parts have been
> problematic for
> > some. Based on what I read, I knew to be fairly aggressive in
> clamping
> > the parts to get the most clearance possible. Interestingly, I
> did
> > have to shim the side (towards the skin) WD-1002 flanges about
> a 1/8"
> > to get reasonable edge clearance. Even so, the maximum edge
> clearance
> > would be just over 1/8" if the rivets were evenly spaced on
> the
> > flange. This suggests that 3/16" spacing might be okay in this
> > application.
> >
> > Personally, I think this is one area where the plans should
> give the
> > builder a bit of a heads up as to what to do and what to expect.
> >
> > Any comments or should I talk to the Van's order desk yet again..
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Les Kearney
> >
> > #40643 - Frustrated in the fuse ..
> >
> > *
> > *
>
> ==========
> RV10-List Email Forum -
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ==========
> _-
> = - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> ==========
>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | FPS Lessons Learnt |
Hi John,
The Showplanes FPS is an elegant, simple, effective design that I am
sure has been used with great success in many RVs. I am peeved at the
price and the quality of documentation that fails to warn of the not so
obvious consequences of driving the flap motor while the FPS is
installed.
The only technical issue I might have with their design is the need for
the fusible links - I need to think about the REAL need a little more.
The relay/switch logic is pretty trivial and once this has been worked
out, the required circuit diagram and PCB are elementary. The
convenience of the Showplanes system is the switch bracket and
positioning rod assembly - so long as you confirm proper engagement of
the switches <Like I did not do blast/bugger/$%$^&>, it is elegant and
should work a treat.
I won't reproduce the circuit for the Showplanes FPS - they may have
Intellectual Property in it - but it's not rocket science. If you
weren't building an RV, and armed with a basic knowledge of switch
logic, you could design (and probably even build) an FPS with two 12V
DPDT relays, 2 (optional) diodes and 2 microswitches on a sunday arvo.
The hard part is not the controller, but the position switching
mechanism and I think the showplanes concept is excellent.
The Aircraft Extras FPS Plus NT (with Ray Allen position indicator in
the cost) is almost the same price as the Showplanes unit, but is
probably micoprocessor controlled to perform the automated functionality
it offers. Go figure the Showplanes pricing logic.
cheers,
Ron
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Wednesday, 24 October 2007 10:51 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: FPS Lessons Learnt
Ron, that does indeed help but would be even better if you would
recommend components that us Amateur Radio types should kludge together
to make a superior product. Would gladly send you money to offset the
professional report.
John Cox
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 4:02 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: FPS Lessons Learnt
G'day all,
Checked the wiring of the Flap Positioning System again last
night. As a professional Electrical Engineer, I confirmed that there
was no wiring issue and was convinced the FPS controller was stuffed.
So I removed it and disassembled it. Here is what I discovered:
1. the controller consists of 2 relays, 2 diodes and two
fusible links. Cost of the components is about $15. The $225 cost of
the unit is extortionate.
2. One of the fusible links had opened.
3. A check of the switches on the switch bracket indicated
that the retract switch was not properly engaged by the positioning rod
(ie the switch was not closed)
So, when the flaps were originally activated, extend worked
fine. Because the retract switch was not properly engaged (probably
intermittent), the flaps would not retract. If the flaps will not
retract using the FPS, the only way to retract them is to apply reverse
voltage directly to the flap motor. But if the FPS is connected, this
will send power the wrong way through the control box and cause one of
the fusible links to open.
In summary, there was no initial problem with the controller.
The problem was misaligned switches on the switch bracket. Manually
retracting the flaps while the FPS was connected cooked the controller
and rendered retract permanently u/s.
So here are the lessons:
1. The electronics in the FPS are trivial. If you have an
FPS problem it will be very unlikely to be a fault in the controller.
2. If the flaps fail to extend or retract, confirm that the
microswitches are being properly opened/closed by the positioning rod
along its travel.
3. use a molex or equivalent connector at the flap
motor/actuator connector so that the flap can be extended/retracted
manually with the controller installed (but disconnected).
I can't see any really compelling reaon for the fusible links,
so replaced them with #28 wire - be buggered if I was going to spend
another US$225 on a repalcement unit. Checked the switch alignment and
bench tested out ok. Will reinstall the electronics in a new case and
remount in the tunnel tomorrow night.
Hope this helps for those yet to install.
Ron
-187 finishing (probably forever!!!)
"Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached files
is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the
intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this
email
in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has
been
taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not
the
sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure
virus
checks are completed before installing any data sent in this
email to
your computer."
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
"Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached files is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
your computer."
Message 23
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|
Hello all,
I have been lurking for 2 1/2 years and have finally jumped the fence. The 10
empennage will be here Thurs. I live in a rural area of WI about an hour west
of Green Bay with my wife and large family (9 kids). This brings up my first
question. What have others done to include their families in the building process.
My children are all very exited to help out in some way. I had some discussion
with Dan Lloyd at airventure and have read Tim's web sight over concerning
this matter, but would appreciate other comments.
Tom Ganster CLI
40778 Just getting started
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141424#141424
Message 24
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| Subject: | FPS Lessons Learnt |
Ron, in your opinion does this pose any potential safety issue with an
inadvertent extension or retraction in flight?
John 40319
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Sent: Wednesday, 24 October 2007 12:03 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: FPS Lessons Learnt
Hi John,
The Showplanes FPS is an elegant, simple, effective design that I am sure
has been used with great success in many RVs. I am peeved at the price and
the quality of documentation that fails to warn of the not so obvious
consequences of driving the flap motor while the FPS is installed.
The only technical issue I might have with their design is the need for the
fusible links - I need to think about the REAL need a little more. The
relay/switch logic is pretty trivial and once this has been worked out, the
required circuit diagram and PCB are elementary. The convenience of the
Showplanes system is the switch bracket and positioning rod assembly - so
long as you confirm proper engagement of the switches <Like I did not do
blast/bugger/$%$^&>, it is elegant and should work a treat.
I won't reproduce the circuit for the Showplanes FPS - they may have
Intellectual Property in it - but it's not rocket science. If you weren't
building an RV, and armed with a basic knowledge of switch logic, you could
design (and probably even build) an FPS with two 12V DPDT relays, 2
(optional) diodes and 2 microswitches on a sunday arvo. The hard part is
not the controller, but the position switching mechanism and I think the
showplanes concept is excellent.
The Aircraft Extras FPS Plus NT (with Ray Allen position indicator in the
cost) is almost the same price as the Showplanes unit, but is probably
micoprocessor controlled to perform the automated functionality it offers.
Go figure the Showplanes pricing logic.
cheers,
Ron
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Wednesday, 24 October 2007 10:51 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: FPS Lessons Learnt
Ron, that does indeed help but would be even better if you would recommend
components that us Amateur Radio types should kludge together to make a
superior product. Would gladly send you money to offset the professional
report.
John Cox
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 4:02 PM
Subject: RV10-List: FPS Lessons Learnt
G'day all,
Checked the wiring of the Flap Positioning System again last night. As a
professional Electrical Engineer, I confirmed that there was no wiring issue
and was convinced the FPS controller was stuffed. So I removed it and
disassembled it. Here is what I discovered:
1. the controller consists of 2 relays, 2 diodes and two fusible links.
Cost of the components is about $15. The $225 cost of the unit is
extortionate.
2. One of the fusible links had opened.
3. A check of the switches on the switch bracket indicated that the
retract switch was not properly engaged by the positioning rod (ie the
switch was not closed)
So, when the flaps were originally activated, extend worked fine. Because
the retract switch was not properly engaged (probably intermittent), the
flaps would not retract. If the flaps will not retract using the FPS, the
only way to retract them is to apply reverse voltage directly to the flap
motor. But if the FPS is connected, this will send power the wrong way
through the control box and cause one of the fusible links to open.
In summary, there was no initial problem with the controller. The problem
was misaligned switches on the switch bracket. Manually retracting the
flaps while the FPS was connected cooked the controller and rendered retract
permanently u/s.
So here are the lessons:
1. The electronics in the FPS are trivial. If you have an FPS problem
it will be very unlikely to be a fault in the controller.
2. If the flaps fail to extend or retract, confirm that the
microswitches are being properly opened/closed by the positioning rod along
its travel.
3. use a molex or equivalent connector at the flap motor/actuator
connector so that the flap can be extended/retracted manually with the
controller installed (but disconnected).
I can't see any really compelling reaon for the fusible links, so replaced
them with #28 wire - be buggered if I was going to spend another US$225 on a
repalcement unit. Checked the switch alignment and bench tested out ok.
Will reinstall the electronics in a new case and remount in the tunnel
tomorrow night.
Hope this helps for those yet to install.
Ron
-187 finishing (probably forever!!!)
"Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached files is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
your computer."
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ics.com
"Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached files is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
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Message 25
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| Subject: | Glasair III Engine/Fuel Problem |
Hello:
I cannot get the Glasair forum to work, so please indulge me if you will.
?
I've recently purchased a Glasair III.? I have been having continued problems with
a very rough running engine.?
It will run fine for 15 minutes then start running rough and losing power.?
It has even quit running completely.?
The fuel system has been cleaned (injectors, fuel distributor, gascolator and filter,
and screen filters).? It still has the same problem.?
It will run fine for awhile, then very rough or not at all (on the ground and in
the air).?
There is no obvious problem that we can find as everything previously mentioned
has been double checked again.?
Problem occurs with or without the boost pump on.? The last time the engine would
run at 17" MP but no more.
?
The latest "guess" is the fuel servo.? The only thing that has not been checked
(other than the fuel servo) is the fuel selector valve.?
So far alot of effort (and $$$) have been spent with no solution.?
I hate to spend big $$$ on a now or rebuilt fuel servo and again find the same
problem afterward.? Ideas?? HELP!?
?
My airplane is stuck at a small airfield in the middle of nowhere...please help.
?
BTW, I took the airplane to High Speed Composites in Ft. Pierce, FL to have this
fixed as well as some gear work done.? I will never take my plane back there.
?
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | FPS Lessons Learnt |
My opinion?- pretty unlikely. Power is only applied to extend or
retract the flap via the flap switch. If a fault occurs, more likely
the flap will either not extend further (requring a no flaps or reduced
flaps landing), or not retract (maybe a go round with flaps extended).
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Dunne
Sent: Wednesday, 24 October 2007 12:50 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: FPS Lessons Learnt
Ron, in your opinion does this pose any potential safety issue
with an inadvertent extension or retraction in flight?
John 40319
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Sent: Wednesday, 24 October 2007 12:03 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: FPS Lessons Learnt
Hi John,
The Showplanes FPS is an elegant, simple, effective design that
I am sure has been used with great success in many RVs. I am peeved at
the price and the quality of documentation that fails to warn of the not
so obvious consequences of driving the flap motor while the FPS is
installed.
The only technical issue I might have with their design is the
need for the fusible links - I need to think about the REAL need a
little more. The relay/switch logic is pretty trivial and once this has
been worked out, the required circuit diagram and PCB are elementary.
The convenience of the Showplanes system is the switch bracket and
positioning rod assembly - so long as you confirm proper engagement of
the switches <Like I did not do blast/bugger/$%$^&>, it is elegant and
should work a treat.
I won't reproduce the circuit for the Showplanes FPS - they may
have Intellectual Property in it - but it's not rocket science. If you
weren't building an RV, and armed with a basic knowledge of switch
logic, you could design (and probably even build) an FPS with two 12V
DPDT relays, 2 (optional) diodes and 2 microswitches on a sunday arvo.
The hard part is not the controller, but the position switching
mechanism and I think the showplanes concept is excellent.
The Aircraft Extras FPS Plus NT (with Ray Allen position
indicator in the cost) is almost the same price as the Showplanes unit,
but is probably micoprocessor controlled to perform the automated
functionality it offers. Go figure the Showplanes pricing logic.
cheers,
Ron
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Wednesday, 24 October 2007 10:51 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: FPS Lessons Learnt
Ron, that does indeed help but would be even better if
you would recommend components that us Amateur Radio types should kludge
together to make a superior product. Would gladly send you money to
offset the professional report.
John Cox
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 4:02 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: FPS Lessons Learnt
G'day all,
Checked the wiring of the Flap Positioning System again
last night. As a professional Electrical Engineer, I confirmed that
there was no wiring issue and was convinced the FPS controller was
stuffed. So I removed it and disassembled it. Here is what I
discovered:
1. the controller consists of 2 relays, 2 diodes
and two fusible links. Cost of the components is about $15. The $225
cost of the unit is extortionate.
2. One of the fusible links had opened.
3. A check of the switches on the switch bracket
indicated that the retract switch was not properly engaged by the
positioning rod (ie the switch was not closed)
So, when the flaps were originally activated, extend
worked fine. Because the retract switch was not properly engaged
(probably intermittent), the flaps would not retract. If the flaps
will not retract using the FPS, the only way to retract them is to apply
reverse voltage directly to the flap motor. But if the FPS is
connected, this will send power the wrong way through the control box
and cause one of the fusible links to open.
In summary, there was no initial problem with the
controller. The problem was misaligned switches on the switch bracket.
Manually retracting the flaps while the FPS was connected cooked the
controller and rendered retract permanently u/s.
So here are the lessons:
1. The electronics in the FPS are trivial. If you
have an FPS problem it will be very unlikely to be a fault in the
controller.
2. If the flaps fail to extend or retract, confirm
that the microswitches are being properly opened/closed by the
positioning rod along its travel.
3. use a molex or equivalent connector at the flap
motor/actuator connector so that the flap can be extended/retracted
manually with the controller installed (but disconnected).
I can't see any really compelling reaon for the fusible
links, so replaced them with #28 wire - be buggered if I was going to
spend another US$225 on a repalcement unit. Checked the switch
alignment and bench tested out ok. Will reinstall the electronics in a
new case and remount in the tunnel tomorrow night.
Hope this helps for those yet to install.
Ron
-187 finishing (probably forever!!!)
"Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached
files is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not
the intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email
or any
attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have
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care has been
taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
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p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
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"Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached files
is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the
intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this
email
in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has
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--> http://forums.matronics.com
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The information contained in this email and any attached files is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
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Message 27
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| Subject: | Glasair III Engine/Fuel Problem |
I suggest you contact the field rep for the Seattle area assuming your
engine is a Lycoming. He is Brian Costello at
BCostello@Lycoming.testron.com.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of darnpilot@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 8:34 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Glasair III Engine/Fuel Problem
Hello:
I cannot get the Glasair forum to work, so please indulge me if you will.
I've recently purchased a Glasair III. I have been having continued
problems with a very rough running engine.
It will run fine for 15 minutes then start running rough and losing power.
It has even quit running completely.
The fuel system has been cleaned (injectors, fuel distributor, gascolator
and filter, and screen filters). It still has the same problem.
It will run fine for awhile, then very rough or not at all (on the ground
and in the air).
There is no obvious problem that we can find as everything previously
mentioned has been double checked again.
Problem occurs with or without the boost pump on. The last time the engine
would run at 17" MP but no more.
The latest "guess" is the fuel servo. The only thing that has not been
checked (other than the fuel servo) is the fuel selector valve.
So far alot of effort (and $$$) have been spent with no solution.
I hate to spend big $$$ on a now or rebuilt fuel servo and again find the
same problem afterward. Ideas? HELP!
My airplane is stuck at a small airfield in the middle of nowhere...please
help.
BTW, I took the airplane to High Speed Composites in Ft. Pierce, FL to have
this fixed as well as some gear work done. I will never take my plane back
there.
Jeff
_____
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail
<http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?ncid=A
OLAOF00020000000970> !
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Glasair III Engine/Fuel Problem |
David:
The email address bounced.? Do you have another?
Thank you.
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: David McNeill <dlm46007@cox.net>
Sent: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 11:48 pm
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Glasair III Engine/Fuel Problem
I suggest you contact the field rep for the Seattle area assuming your engine is
a Lycoming. He is Brian Costello at BCostello@Lycoming.testron.com.
?
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of darnpilot@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 8:34 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Glasair III Engine/Fuel Problem
Hello:
I cannot get the Glasair forum to work, so please indulge me if you will.
?
?
I've recently purchased a Glasair III.? I have been having continued problems with
a very rough running engine.?
It will run fine for 15 minutes then start running rough and losing power.?
It has even quit running completely.?
The fuel system has been cleaned (injectors, fuel distributor, gascolator and filter,
and screen filters).? It still has the same problem.?
It will run fine for awhile, then very rough or not at all (on the ground and in
the air).?
There is no obvious problem that we can find as everything previously mentioned
has been double checked again.?
Problem occurs with or without the boost pump on.? The last time the engine would
run at 17" MP but no more.
?
The latest "guess" is the fuel servo.? The only thing that has not been checked
(other than the fuel servo) is the fuel selector valve.?
So far alot of effort (and $$$) have been spent with no solution.?
I hate to spend big $$$ on a now or rebuilt fuel servo and again find the same
problem afterward.? Ideas?? HELP!?
?
My airplane is stuck at a small airfield in the middle of nowhere...please help.
?
BTW, I took the airplane to High Speed Composites in Ft. Pierce, FL to have this
fixed as well as some gear work done.? I will never take my plane back there.
?
Jeff
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
Message 29
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| Subject: | Glasair III Engine/Fuel Problem |
I think the email address should include textron not testron
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of darnpilot@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:07 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Glasair III Engine/Fuel Problem
David:
The email address bounced. Do you have another?
Thank you.
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: David McNeill <dlm46007@cox.net>
Sent: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 11:48 pm
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Glasair III Engine/Fuel Problem
I suggest you contact the field rep for the Seattle area assuming your
engine is a Lycoming. He is Brian Costello at
BCostello@Lycoming.testron.com.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com?> ] On Behalf Of
darnpilot@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 8:34 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Glasair III Engine/Fuel Problem
Hello:
I cannot get the Glasair forum to work, so please indulge me if you will.
I've recently purchased a Glasair III. I have been having continued
problems with a very rough running engine.
It will run fine for 15 minutes then start running rough and losing power.
It has even quit running completely.
The fuel system has been cleaned (injectors, fuel distributor, gascolator
and filter, and screen filters). It still has the same problem.
It will run fine for awhile, then very rough or not at all (on the ground
and in the air).
There is no obvious problem that we can find as everything previously
mentioned has been double checked again.
Problem occurs with or without the boost pump on. The last time the engine
would run at 17" MP but no more.
The latest "guess" is the fuel servo. The only thing that has not been
checked (other than the fuel servo) is the fuel selector valve.
So far alot of effort (and $$$) have been spent with no solution.
I hate to spend big $$$ on a now or rebuilt fuel servo and again find the
same problem afterward. Ideas? HELP!
My airplane is stuck at a small airfield in the middle of nowhere...please
help.
BTW, I took the airplane to High Speed Composites in Ft. Pierce, FL to have
this fixed as well as some gear work done. I will never take my plane back
there.
Jeff
_____
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail
<http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?ncid=A
OLAOF00020000000970> !
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
">http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Glasair III Engine/Fuel Problem |
Jeff,
Assuming a Lycoming IO-540 with Bendix fuel injection:
Make sure you have around 25 PSI fuel pressure between the engine fuel pump
and the servo. The pressure should be about the same with the boost pump on
or off, or the engine off with boost pump on. If you don't have that, fix
it first.
Next if you disconnect the fuel hose at the servo and run it into a bucket,
you should be getting well over 40 gallons per hour of fuel flow. You can
measure on the fuel flow gauge or with a stopwatch and a gas can. Be
careful, it's a lot of fuel and it burns very well.
If the fuel flow is low, you may have a blocked hose, filter, inlet, or fuel
valve. Check the finger screens in the fuel tanks. Same on all tanks?
If you have fuel pressure and fuel flow before the servo, the problem is
most likely the servo, but also check for a blocked (dirty) air filter,
dirty servo filter (inside the servo).
There are lots of other possibilities. If you want to give me a call
tomorrow I'll try to help out.
Good Luck,
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of darnpilot@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 8:34 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Glasair III Engine/Fuel Problem
Hello:
I cannot get the Glasair forum to work, so please indulge me if you will.
I've recently purchased a Glasair III. I have been having continued
problems with a very rough running engine.
It will run fine for 15 minutes then start running rough and losing power.
It has even quit running completely.
The fuel system has been cleaned (injectors, fuel distributor, gascolator
and filter, and screen filters). It still has the same problem.
It will run fine for awhile, then very rough or not at all (on the ground
and in the air).
There is no obvious problem that we can find as everything previously
mentioned has been double checked again.
Problem occurs with or without the boost pump on. The last time the engine
would run at 17" MP but no more.
The latest "guess" is the fuel servo. The only thing that has not been
checked (other than the fuel servo) is the fuel selector valve.
So far alot of effort (and $$$) have been spent with no solution.
I hate to spend big $$$ on a now or rebuilt fuel servo and again find the
same problem afterward. Ideas? HELP!
My airplane is stuck at a small airfield in the middle of nowhere...please
help.
BTW, I took the airplane to High Speed Composites in Ft. Pierce, FL to have
this fixed as well as some gear work done. I will never take my plane back
there.
Jeff
_____
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail
<http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?ncid=A
OLAOF00020000000970> !
Message 31
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| Subject: | Reality Check - cost of an RV10 |
I read with great interest Mr. VanG's article in R-Vartor recently. Kuddos to him
on the completion of the plane. I do want to take issue however with the cost
estimates at the end of the article. There is no way on earth that you or I
can build an RV10 equiped like his for $110-115K - it is simply not going to
happen. Lets run the numbers:
1. Basic Q/B kit is going to run $48,325
2. Delivery (it will not levitate to your door) min $ 2,500
3. If you or I want an Aero Sport IO-540 min $40,000
4. Lighting and Strobes and basic electrical $ 2,000
5. Fuel pump and fuel filter - fuel sender $1,000
6. Hartzel 2 blade prop (freight included above) $6,260
7. Paint it yourself materials only $2,000
8. Interior (do you want it to look nice) minimum $2,000
9. Firewall forward kit from vans (no throtle quad) $6,000
_________
Total $110,000
OPPPPS - we forgot avionics - If you want a minimal
VFR panel (ex Dynon - Garmin 296 - Radio - TXP = min $10,000
Van's Panel works out to $16,000 at normal retail prices putting his plane out
there at a MINIMUM of $126,000
This includes NO FRILLS - NO TOOLS - No builders assist (classes)- no special
options like Flap position system - no gascolator - no screw ups where you need
to replace parts - nothing extra
In the real world the Q/B plane will cost you a minimum of $135K and more likely
$140-150. You have to buy tools - you will need builders assist - you will need
to hire a painter or do a Macco paint job on a $150K airplane. You will want
a nice interior and you will need a decent panel when you are going 200mph.
Vans make a great plane at a decent price, but you can get an off the shelf LSA
for 100K. An RV10 kit is not the same thing. DO NOT START THIS PROJECT WITHOUT
A MINIMUM BUDGET OF $130,000
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141449#141449
Message 32
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| Subject: | Reality Check - cost of an RV10 |
Amen
- and throw in a crappy US dollar exchange rate of say $0.75 on average
over the kit purchase price, and then overseas freight + GST at 10% on
top of the lot and the pain is far greater! If you want all new parts
(engine etc) don't expect to get by for less than $200k in Oz - unless
the Aussie dollar continues its drive above US$0.90 ;->
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike
Sent: Wednesday, 24 October 2007 2:56 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Reality Check - cost of an RV10
I read with great interest Mr. VanG's article in R-Vartor recently.
Kuddos to him on the completion of the plane. I do want to take issue
however with the cost estimates at the end of the article. There is no
way on earth that you or I can build an RV10 equiped like his for
$110-115K - it is simply not going to happen. Lets run the numbers:
1. Basic Q/B kit is going to run $48,325
2. Delivery (it will not levitate to your door) min $ 2,500
3. If you or I want an Aero Sport IO-540 min $40,000
4. Lighting and Strobes and basic electrical $ 2,000
5. Fuel pump and fuel filter - fuel sender $1,000
6. Hartzel 2 blade prop (freight included above) $6,260
7. Paint it yourself materials only $2,000
8. Interior (do you want it to look nice) minimum $2,000
9. Firewall forward kit from vans (no throtle quad) $6,000
_________
Total
$110,000
OPPPPS - we forgot avionics - If you want a minimal VFR panel (ex Dynon
- Garmin 296 - Radio - TXP = min $10,000
Van's Panel works out to $16,000 at normal retail prices putting his
plane out there at a MINIMUM of $126,000
This includes NO FRILLS - NO TOOLS - No builders assist (classes)- no
special options like Flap position system - no gascolator - no screw ups
where you need to replace parts - nothing extra
In the real world the Q/B plane will cost you a minimum of $135K and
more likely $140-150. You have to buy tools - you will need builders
assist - you will need to hire a painter or do a Macco paint job on a
$150K airplane. You will want a nice interior and you will need a decent
panel when you are going 200mph.
Vans make a great plane at a decent price, but you can get an off the
shelf LSA for 100K. An RV10 kit is not the same thing. DO NOT START THIS
PROJECT WITHOUT A MINIMUM BUDGET OF $130,000
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141449#141449
"Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached files is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
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