Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:45 AM - Re: Budget Buys - Trainers (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
2. 05:07 AM - Re: grounding question (Neal George)
3. 05:23 AM - Re: grounding question (Dave Leikam)
4. 06:21 AM - Floor pan insulation (Les Kearney)
5. 06:29 AM - Re: grounding question (Carl Froehlich)
6. 06:29 AM - Re: grounding question (egohr1)
7. 07:20 AM - Re: grounding question (John W. Cox)
8. 08:10 AM - Things I wish I knew sooner (Clecos) (Les Kearney)
9. 08:10 AM - Re: Re: Budget Buys - Trainers (cloudvalley@comcast.net)
10. 08:17 AM - Re: grounding question (John W. Cox)
11. 08:28 AM - Re: Floor pan insulation (Rick Sked)
12. 08:34 AM - Re: grounding question (John W. Cox)
13. 09:19 AM - Re: Aftermarket brake lines (Robin Marks)
14. 09:27 AM - Re: grounding question (Ben Westfall)
15. 10:20 AM - Re: Floor pan insulation (Bob-tcw)
16. 10:43 AM - Post Mortem - Matronics List Pummeled By Spam... (Matt Dralle)
17. 11:52 AM - Re: Floor pan insulation (Patrick Thyssen)
18. 12:36 PM - Re: Things I wish I knew sooner (Clecos) (Patrick ONeill)
19. 02:43 PM - Re: Things I wish I knew sooner (Clecos) (Pascal)
20. 03:09 PM - Re: grounding question (MauleDriver)
21. 03:28 PM - Re: Re: Budget Buys - Trainers (William Curtis)
22. 03:42 PM - Re: grounding question (Rick Sked)
23. 06:08 PM - Re: Aftermarket brake lines (Chris Johnston)
24. 06:17 PM - Re: RV 10 for sale or trade (steve carlson)
25. 06:54 PM - RV 10 (steve carlson)
26. 08:16 PM - Re: grounding question (Jesse Saint)
27. 09:24 PM - Part F-1054 (John Gonzalez)
28. 10:09 PM - Re: Budget Buys - Trainers (AirMike)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Budget Buys - Trainers |
Don't forget that most only have half the range also. Showed that same article
to my wife. :-)
michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 1:38 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Budget Buys - Trainers
If you are interested in feeling even better about your decision to
build & fly an RV-10 just browse the November issue of AOPA Pilot
article titled "Bottom Line Four-Seaters." It details the bare minimum
products offered by Cirrus, Piper, Diamond & Cessna. In most cases they
are VFR only & fixed pitch. The biggest power plant is 200 Hp.
A brief recap:
Cirrus SR20 SRV-G2
VFR Only
$200,000
Sales 6-10 / year!
Want an Autopilot, GNS 430, Front wheel pant just add $60,000 to
$257,000
200 Hp = Highest true airspeed, 150 Kts.
Piper Archer
Built for fleet sales so if you want on you have to group your purchase
with another buyer.
$230,000 for round gauges
Want a glass cockpit just add $50K Final price $280,000
160 Hp = true airspeed, 128 Kts.
Diamond DA40-FP
G1000 panel
$246,000
Fabric interior, no wheel pants, downgraded exhaust
Again to get this price you have to "gang" your purchase with a bulk buy
180 Hp = true airspeed, 134 Kts
Cessna 172R
G1000 panel
$220,000
160 Hp = true airspeed, 122 Kts
440 lbs max payload with full fuel for a 4 seat plane. Grab your three
100 pound friends and go flying. You only weigh 140 lbs right?
I guess the only "advantage" over an RV-10 is they come fully
assembled.
Robin
RV-10 BPE Engine Shipped
Message 2
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| Subject: | grounding question |
Ben -
I grounded lights and pitot heat locally by riveting a #8 nutplate to the
spar web - one in each wingtip, one near the pitot mount. Socket-head cap
screws and internal-tooth lock-washers secure the ring terminals. I didn't
add any extra corrosion protection (I'll shoot it with CorrosionX after
paint), but I do use a little anti-seize on all nutplates.
What are people doing for ground wires for the nav, landing, and pitot heat?
Are you running separate wires for ground or grounding locally to the
airframe? This might be somewhat of a "primer war" question as I've heard
some say always run ground wires and others say ground locally.
Aeroelectric says local ground for "non-noisy" items is fine. Just
wondering what others have done.
If airframe what kind of hardware do you use to get a solid ground
connection? Do you use regular AN nuts bolts and washers or do you use
something like a lock washer that has more bite maybe? Do you cover the
nut/bolt with anything to slow any corrosion being that you need to clean
the primer off the metal at the point of contact?
Yes John I'll wipe the dust off the 43.13 :-)
-Ben Westfall
#40579
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: grounding question |
I spoke to a fellow -10 builder who is an AP and was told to ground most
things locally. Logic was that the structure is a very good conductor
and "there is more of it." Also, less wire, less weight and less
complexity. I only installed one ground so far for my Gretz pitot and
used a nut plate and screw. The friend suggested this because of the
locking function of the nut plate and solid mount. I have QB wings and
they came primed with a wash primer. I just drilled the holes for the
nut plate, deburred, and squeezed in some rivets. Continuity is good.
I will probably coat with some ACF-50 or Boeshield after paint. I have
an EAA tech counselor visit soon and will pose this question to him.
Only one person's opinion.
Dave Leikam
40496
About to close the left wing.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Westfall
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 4:20 PM
Subject: RV10-List: grounding question
What are people doing for ground wires for the nav, landing, and pitot
heat? Are you running separate wires for ground or grounding locally to
the airframe? This might be somewhat of a "primer war" question as I've
heard some say always run ground wires and others say ground locally.
Aeroelectric says local ground for "non-noisy" items is fine. Just
wondering what others have done.
If airframe what kind of hardware do you use to get a solid ground
connection? Do you use regular AN nuts bolts and washers or do you use
something like a lock washer that has more bite maybe? Do you cover the
nut/bolt with anything to slow any corrosion being that you need to
clean the primer off the metal at the point of contact?
Yes John I'll wipe the dust off the 43.13 J
-Ben Westfall
#40579
Message 4
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| Subject: | Floor pan insulation |
Hi
Wandering through the things I book marked over the past few months; I came
across a product called Koolmat. I must have kept the link as I was
interested in something I could use to insulate the floor pan area - I am
primarily interested in safety in case there is an engine fire.
Not having used this product, would anyone who has used it let me know if it
water absorbent. I don't want to put anything in the foot well that will
absorb water.
On a related note, what would be the best adhesive to use to hold it down? I
want to avoid using any adhesives that can support a flame. Is there a
general purpose adhesive that could be used in this and similar applications
that are non flammable?
Inquiring minds need to know ....
Les Kearney
#40643 - Frustrated in the fuse
Message 5
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| Subject: | grounding question |
In my RV-8A I ran a single #14 common ground wire to each wing, with an
additional #14 ground wire for the pitot heat. My thought was to avoid
mechanical problems associated with using the air frame for ground (getting
a solid connection, hardware coming loose, dissimilar metal corrosion
between the connector and the air frame, hard point vibration source, etc.).
I plan on the same approach in my RV-10.
I also used a Molex plug on the wing wiring to allow for wing removal for
paint. The plug is located in the wing root along with female and male BNC
connectors for the wing tip antenna. After paint I put RTV on these
connections as an additional means for preservation. The RTV is easy to
peal off if I ever need to take a wing off again.
Carl Froehlich
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 5:21 PM
Subject: RV10-List: grounding question
What are people doing for ground wires for the nav, landing, and pitot heat?
Are you running separate wires for ground or grounding locally to the
airframe? This might be somewhat of a "primer war" question as I've heard
some say always run ground wires and others say ground locally.
Aeroelectric says local ground for "non-noisy" items is fine. Just
wondering what others have done.
If airframe what kind of hardware do you use to get a solid ground
connection? Do you use regular AN nuts bolts and washers or do you use
something like a lock washer that has more bite maybe? Do you cover the
nut/bolt with anything to slow any corrosion being that you need to clean
the primer off the metal at the point of contact?
Yes John I'll wipe the dust off the 43.13 :-)
-Ben Westfall
#40579
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: grounding question |
I have been using local grounding with brass nuts /bolts / and lock washers to
minimize corrosion and give a better conductor than steel. The primer is removed
under the lock washer to insure good contact.
sanding and wiring while waiting for the finishing kit.
--------
eric gohr
EGOHR86@alumni.carnegiemellon.edu
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145050#145050
Message 7
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| Subject: | grounding question |
Nuckolls Book works for those with fear of reading the AC43.13. Surface
contact area always wins over internal or external lock washers. They
just retain the nut. Anti-Corrosion compounds can help as well.
At work, We use my beloved ProSeal on bonding strap attachments to keep
environmental contamination to a minimum.
As an aircraft gets up to reaching my own age, corrosion on ground
connections produce unique and challenging diagnostic opportunities.
John Cox
#40600
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 2:21 PM
Subject: RV10-List: grounding question
What are people doing for ground wires for the nav, landing, and pitot
heat? Are you running separate wires for ground or grounding locally to
the airframe? This might be somewhat of a "primer war" question as I've
heard some say always run ground wires and others say ground locally.
Aeroelectric says local ground for "non-noisy" items is fine. Just
wondering what others have done.
If airframe what kind of hardware do you use to get a solid ground
connection? Do you use regular AN nuts bolts and washers or do you use
something like a lock washer that has more bite maybe? Do you cover the
nut/bolt with anything to slow any corrosion being that you need to
clean the primer off the metal at the point of contact?
Yes John I'll wipe the dust off the 43.13 :-)
-Ben Westfall
#40579
Message 8
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| Subject: | Things I wish I knew sooner (Clecos) |
Hi
When I bought my tools, I thought, incorrectly, that all clecos were created
equally. Interestingly, I found that it was hard to insert some clecos into
the #40 holes before match drilling and others would fit fine. The
difference was the brand. I had bought two different brands. The KWIK-LOK
clecos did not insert into holes as easily as the WedgeLock brand. If I had
to do it all over again, I would only buy the Wedgelock brand.
After match drilling, there was no difference in ease of insertion.
Cheers
Les Kearney
#40643 - Frustrated in the fuse
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Budget Buys - Trainers |
Hi Mike,
We bought an SR20 (2006) with everything except SW/SS, for $249,000, which they
used for an ad in the August issue of "Flying" Magazine. N774PT. Ruth flew
it From Duluth, Minn to Eugene. Then we flew it across to Mass, went to the the
AOPA EXPO, then to Ohio, San Diego and back home. It really is a great plane,
which may be slow at 132 Knots at best economy, but it burned 7.5 gal/hr! Also,
only one qt of oil in 50 hrs. The G3's are way too expensive, that's for
sure! Even the SR 20 is not cheap, but the avionics were so great and easy to
use! Made the trip a lot more fun! Talk to you later, Mike. Good luck with the
RV10!
Brian and Ruth
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel@Pacbell.net>
>
> Personal notes: Before I signed onto the RV10, I looked into the Cirrus SR20.
> The Cirrus staff showed me the SR22-G3 that they were pushing with it's mega
> price tag, they all but refused to sell me an SR20. If you demand one they will
> start telling you how you have to wait a year, and that it is too much of a
> beginner's product. It is only for VFR and the autopilot sucks, etc, etc, etc.
>
> I think that they keep it in the line as a transition trainer for the sales
> staff and a few flight schools, but it is a phantom product. Not really
> available to you or me. I doubt that even one was sold to an individual this
> year. They are looking to sell the big profit planes - like the turbo.
>
> The Archer is a good honest plane (I owned one) but 120-125 knots is its real
> capability. The 172 is a slow beast but very safe.
>
> --------
> OSH '08 or Bust
> Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/uggg
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144955#144955
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<html><body>
<DIV>Hi Mike,</DIV>
<DIV> We bought an SR20 (2006) with everything except SW/SS, for $249,000,
which they used for an ad in the August issue of "Flying" Magazine.
N774PT. Ruth flew it From Duluth, Minn to Eugene. Then we flew it across
to Mass, went to the the AOPA EXPO, then to Ohio, San Diego and back
home. It really is a great plane, which may be slow at 132 Knots at best economy,
but it burned 7.5 gal/hr! Also, only one qt of oil in 50 hrs.
The G3's are way too expensive, that's for sure! Even the SR 20 is not cheap,
but the avionics were so great and easy to use! Made the trip a lot more fun!
Talk to you later, Mike. Good luck with the RV10!</DIV>
<DIV> Brian and Ruth</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel@Pacbell.net>
<BR><BR>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "AirMike"
<MIKEABEL@PACBELL.NET><BR>> <BR>> Personal notes: Before I signed
onto the RV10, I looked into the Cirrus SR20. <BR>> The Cirrus staff showed
me the SR22-G3 that they were pushing with it's mega <BR>> price tag, they
all but refused to sell me an SR20. If you demand one they will <BR>> start
telling you how you have to wait a year, and that it is too much of a <BR>>
beginner's product. It is only for VFR and the autopilot sucks, etc, etc,
etc. <BR>> <BR>> I think that they keep it in the line as a transition
trainer for the sales <BR>> staff and a few flight schools, but it is a phantom
product. Not really <BR>> available to you or me. I doubt that even one
was sold to an individual this <BR>> year. They
are lo
//www.
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 10
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| Subject: | grounding question |
As an alternative to the Funnies or Sports Page this AM. Here you are
Ben. Don't want allergies to flair up from the dust on your shelf.
John
#40600
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 2:21 PM
Subject: RV10-List: grounding question
What are people doing for ground wires for the nav, landing, and pitot
heat? Are you running separate wires for ground or grounding locally to
the airframe? This might be somewhat of a "primer war" question as I've
heard some say always run ground wires and others say ground locally.
Aeroelectric says local ground for "non-noisy" items is fine. Just
wondering what others have done.
If airframe what kind of hardware do you use to get a solid ground
connection? Do you use regular AN nuts bolts and washers or do you use
something like a lock washer that has more bite maybe? Do you cover the
nut/bolt with anything to slow any corrosion being that you need to
clean the primer off the metal at the point of contact?
Yes John I'll wipe the dust off the 43.13 :-)
-Ben Westfall
#40579
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Floor pan insulation |
Les,
I have Koolmat on my firewall. It is a fberglass mat with a impregnated silicone
covering, about an 1/8" thick total. I don't think the glass side could absorb
much water, definetly not the silicone side. I used red RTV to attache on small
dabs. It's pretty tough stuff. I super sound proof insulation in the floor
pan areas and cut it for a friction fit, no adhesive except a small dab of silicone
if it showed any lifting.
Rick S.
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "Les Kearney" <kearney@shaw.ca>
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 6:18:48 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Floor pan insulation
Hi
Wandering through the things I book marked over the past few months; I came
across a product called Koolmat. I must have kept the link as I was
interested in something I could use to insulate the floor pan area - I am
primarily interested in safety in case there is an engine fire.
Not having used this product, would anyone who has used it let me know if it
water absorbent. I don't want to put anything in the foot well that will
absorb water.
On a related note, what would be the best adhesive to use to hold it down? I
want to avoid using any adhesives that can support a flame. Is there a
general purpose adhesive that could be used in this and similar applications
that are non flammable?
Inquiring minds need to know ....
Les Kearney
#40643 - Frustrated in the fuse
Message 12
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| Subject: | grounding question |
Answer #3 - Make an appropriately sized monetary contribution to Matt's
Matronics Annual Contribution List for November and receive a free copy
of Bob Nuckolls Aero Electric in electronic form... then no dust is
likely.
John
#40600
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 2:21 PM
Subject: RV10-List: grounding question
What are people doing for ground wires for the nav, landing, and pitot
heat? Are you running separate wires for ground or grounding locally to
the airframe? This might be somewhat of a "primer war" question as I've
heard some say always run ground wires and others say ground locally.
Aeroelectric says local ground for "non-noisy" items is fine. Just
wondering what others have done.
If airframe what kind of hardware do you use to get a solid ground
connection? Do you use regular AN nuts bolts and washers or do you use
something like a lock washer that has more bite maybe? Do you cover the
nut/bolt with anything to slow any corrosion being that you need to
clean the primer off the metal at the point of contact?
Yes John I'll wipe the dust off the 43.13 :-)
-Ben Westfall
#40579
Message 13
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| Subject: | Aftermarket brake lines |
CJ,
Thank you for the Brake Line write up. We ordered ALMOST the
same exact lines from the Baker Precision per your research. The
difference is we purchased a standard 32" length rather than a custom
31.5" length and saved a few $. The 32" units are $16.95 each.
Robin
Officially 1/2" longer than CJ :-)
probably don't work anymore. sorry. anyway, the brakeline writeup is
here:
http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Perfectlygoodairplane/Aftermarket_B
rake_Lines.html
cj
building an airplane - not sure what section anymore...
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
Message 14
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| Subject: | grounding question |
John my punches were inteded to be humerous. more as "beat you to your
standard response" than anything.
I own the latest version 11 of Bob's Aeroelectric Connection and have read
it front to back 3 times in the last several months. Believe it or not my
AC43.13 is quite tattered. Both were consulted prior to my emails. I like
a healthy dose of information prior to actually making any decisions. My
experiences in my 32 years of life have proven that book smarts don't always
align with reality so along with the reading and research that goes with all
the build decisions (which at times seems like its more than actually
building) I like to hear what others have done and will do. I take from
those what I feel prudent.
Thanks for your responses they are always valued and welcomed.
-Ben
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 8:30 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: grounding question
Answer #3 - Make an appropriately sized monetary contribution to Matt's
Matronics Annual Contribution List for November and receive a free copy of
Bob Nuckolls Aero Electric in electronic form. then no dust is likely.
John
#40600
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 2:21 PM
Subject: RV10-List: grounding question
What are people doing for ground wires for the nav, landing, and pitot heat?
Are you running separate wires for ground or grounding locally to the
airframe? This might be somewhat of a "primer war" question as I've heard
some say always run ground wires and others say ground locally.
Aeroelectric says local ground for "non-noisy" items is fine. Just
wondering what others have done.
If airframe what kind of hardware do you use to get a solid ground
connection? Do you use regular AN nuts bolts and washers or do you use
something like a lock washer that has more bite maybe? Do you cover the
nut/bolt with anything to slow any corrosion being that you need to clean
the primer off the metal at the point of contact?
Yes John I'll wipe the dust off the 43.13 :-)
-Ben Westfall
#40579
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Floor pan insulation |
I also used the super sound proofing under the floor pans. Under the front
floor pans I used the 1" thick version and just did a tight fit, no
adhesive. Under the rear seat floor pans I used 3/4", its a perfect fit.
I also used the 3/4" thick under the rear seats and under the baggage
compartment floor. In these two areas I used the adhesive backed version
of the insulation as there is nothing really holding the insulation down.
On the firewall I'm also using the Koolmat material. I've been scratching
my head on how to fasten this stuff down. The RTV idea seams reasonable.
Also I was curious as to how flame retardent the super sound proofing was,
so I took some pieces outside and tried to set them on fire with a propane
torch. The stuff just kinda curled up and melted, but definetly did not
support any flame at all. It did stink the high heaven and you'd definely
need some ventalation if you melted this stuff inside the cabin, but it
certainly did not catch fire.
Also this Koolmat seems to be the only stuff I've seen intended to be put on
the engine side of the firewall. I think this makes great sense, as
keeping the heat from passing thru the firewall in the first place is the
best way to keep the cabin cool.
Bob Newman
#40176
TCW Technologies
www.tcwtech.com
Message 16
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| Subject: | Post Mortem - Matronics List Pummeled By Spam... |
Dear Listers,
Over a 3-day period, Thursday 11/8 though Saturday 11/10, the Matronics Lists were
pummeled with over 450,000 spam emails causing posting delays and a few duplicate
messages. Yeah, I really said nearly half a million spams! The good
news is that I don't believe a single one of them actually made it to the Lists
thanks to the aggressive List filtering code and the Barracuda spam filter.
The bad news was that it caused quite a back log of email messages starting Friday
and continuing until late Saturday when I noticed that delivery seemed a bit
sluggish. By about 11pm on Saturday night, I had managed to get the backlog
cleared out of the spam filter by temporarily adjusting some of the filtering.
A check of the queues this morning, and everything looks like its working great
and there are no incoming filtering delays and spam levels appear to be back
to "normal".
There were a number of people asking what was going on, so I thought that I'd send
out a follow up post mortem on the event...
November is the annual List Fund Raiser. Your contribution directly enables me
to buy systems like the Barracuda spam filter that keep the List free of that
garbage. Please make a contribution to support your Lists!
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Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Floor pan insulation |
Question? Is this material fuel resistant? Question? What"s to become of the fuel
you spill when you change your fuel filter? I know its not a lot but.....
Thanks
Just wondering
Pat Thyssen
One day I'll finish.
Bob-tcw <rnewman@tcwtech.com> wrote:
I also used the super sound proofing under the floor pans. Under the front
floor pans I used the 1" thick version and just did a tight fit, no
adhesive. Under the rear seat floor pans I used 3/4", its a perfect fit.
I also used the 3/4" thick under the rear seats and under the baggage
compartment floor. In these two areas I used the adhesive backed version
of the insulation as there is nothing really holding the insulation down.
On the firewall I'm also using the Koolmat material. I've been scratching
my head on how to fasten this stuff down. The RTV idea seams reasonable.
Also I was curious as to how flame retardent the super sound proofing was,
so I took some pieces outside and tried to set them on fire with a propane
torch. The stuff just kinda curled up and melted, but definetly did not
support any flame at all. It did stink the high heaven and you'd definely
need some ventalation if you melted this stuff inside the cabin, but it
certainly did not catch fire.
Also this Koolmat seems to be the only stuff I've seen intended to be put on
the engine side of the firewall. I think this makes great sense, as
keeping the heat from passing thru the firewall in the first place is the
best way to keep the cabin cool.
Bob Newman
#40176
TCW Technologies
www.tcwtech.com
Message 18
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| Subject: | Things I wish I knew sooner (Clecos) |
I had the exact same issues. I didn't purchase a tool kit, but instead
order various tools from various vendors as desired/needed through the
process. The cleco's I purchased from ATS do not fit well in the punched
holes but work fine in match drilled holes. The clecos I purchased from
Cleveland are much more tolerant of the undersized holes before match
drilling, so when doing the pre-match drill assembly, I had to use the
Clevelands. After match drilling they all worked fine. I keep them in
separate bins, so the only time it was really an issue for me was during the
tailcone when it was 'all clecos on deck.'
The phrase "all clecos are not created equal" has gone through my mind at
least 100 times during the empennage and in the early stages was quite
frustrating.
Best Regards,
Patrick #40715
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 8:08 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Things I wish I knew sooner (Clecos)
Hi
When I bought my tools, I thought, incorrectly, that all clecos were created
equally. Interestingly, I found that it was hard to insert some clecos into
the #40 holes before match drilling and others would fit fine. The
difference was the brand. I had bought two different brands. The KWIK-LOK
clecos did not insert into holes as easily as the WedgeLock brand. If I had
to do it all over again, I would only buy the Wedgelock brand.
After match drilling, there was no difference in ease of insertion.
Cheers
Les Kearney
#40643 - Frustrated in the fuse
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Things I wish I knew sooner (Clecos) |
I bought the CLEKOLOK K-series from Brown tools. They have been great!
never had any problems and while I am at it, All the tools I have bought
from Brown tools have been first rate. There was a problem with a #40
countersink and Michael Brown himself address my concern and resolved to
my satisfaction in a very timely manner. I bought all the least
expensive tools that I felt were of the best quality.
Anyone looking for other than the usual vendors- I highly recommend
Brown Tools and The YARD STORE for any tools needed. They are reasonable
in pricing (Yard being the best value) than anywhere else.
Pascal
Wings
----- Original Message -----
From: Les Kearney
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 8:08 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Things I wish I knew sooner (Clecos)
Hi
When I bought my tools, I thought, incorrectly, that all clecos were
created equally. Interestingly, I found that it was hard to insert some
clecos into the #40 holes before match drilling and others would fit
fine. The difference was the brand. I had bought two different brands.
The KWIK-LOK clecos did not insert into holes as easily as the WedgeLock
brand. If I had to do it all over again, I would only buy the Wedgelock
brand.
After match drilling, there was no difference in ease of insertion.
Cheers
Les Kearney
#40643 - Frustrated in the fuse
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: grounding question |
I'm grounding locally to the airframe (wing tips, tail structure,etc)
per Aeroelectric recommendation. Will have ground bus for sensitive
equipment.
When grounding to the airframe, I referenced Tables 11-14 & 11-15 in
43.13. Very specific advice on grounding to aluminum airframe with
aluminum washers and lock washer application. It was my first use of 43.13.
I have no useful experience with the results in this area.
Bill Watson #40605
Ben Westfall wrote:
>
> What are people doing for ground wires for the nav, landing, and pitot
> heat? Are you running separate wires for ground or grounding locally
> to the airframe? This might be somewhat of a primer war question as
> Ive heard some say always run ground wires and others say ground
> locally. Aeroelectric says local ground for non-noisy items is fine.
> Just wondering what others have done.
>
> If airframe what kind of hardware do you use to get a solid ground
> connection? Do you use regular AN nuts bolts and washers or do you use
> something like a lock washer that has more bite maybe? Do you cover
> the nut/bolt with anything to slow any corrosion being that you need
> to clean the primer off the metal at the point of contact?
>
> Yes John Ill wipe the dust off the 43.13 J
>
> -Ben Westfall
>
> #40579
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Budget Buys - Trainers |
Airmaike,
Since I know at least two people who have recently purchased and took delivery
of SR-20s due to the lower entry price, lower insurance and lower operating cost,
you dealer was either on an agenda, ill informed or disingenuous. They we
able to get all the option availabel in the SR-22 with the exception of the weeping
wing de-ice system. Even Aviation Consumer rated the SR-20 as a best value
but most pilots think more power is the panacea for poor flying skills and
gravitate to the SR-22.
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
-------- Original Message --------
> X-Rcpt-To: <wcurtis@nerv10.com>
>
>
> Personal notes: Before I signed onto the RV10, I looked into the Cirrus SR20.
The Cirrus staff showed me the SR22-G3 that they were pushing with it's mega
price tag, they all but refused to sell me an SR20. If you demand one they will
start telling you how you have to wait a year, and that it is too much of a
beginner's product. It is only for VFR and the autopilot sucks, etc, etc, etc.
>
> I think that they keep it in the line as a transition trainer for the sales staff
and a few flight schools, but it is a phantom product. Not really available
to you or me. I doubt that even one was sold to an individual this year. They
are looking to sell the big profit planes - like the turbo.
>
> The Archer is a good honest plane (I owned one) but 120-125 knots is its real
capability. The 172 is a slow beast but very safe.
>
> --------
> OSH '08 or Bust
> Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/uggg
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144955#144955
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: grounding question |
I thinks it's great that you got the jump on John!! Doesn't happen much tho
ugh, he always seems to be at your 6, coming out of the sun.=C2- :)
Rick S.
40185
PS-I toured Wayne Edgertons -10 this weekend at Aviation Nation...S W E E T
.....Scotts is great too=C2- :) ...but I had seen his before.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Westfall" <rv10@sinkrate.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 9:24:03 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RE: RV10-List: grounding question
John my punches were inteded to be humerous more as =9Cbeat
you to your standard response=9D than anything.
I own the latest version 11 of Bob=99s Aeroelectric Connection and ha
ve read it front to back 3 times in the last several months. =C2-Believe
it or not my AC43.13 is quite tattered.=C2- Both were consulted prior to
my emails.=C2- I like a healthy dose of information prior to actually mak
ing any decisions. =C2-My experiences in my 32 years of life have proven
that book smarts don=99t always align with reality so along with the
reading and research that goes with all the build decisions (which at times
seems like its more than actually building) I like to hear what others hav
e done and will do. =C2-I take from those what I feel prudent.
Thanks for your responses they are always valued and welcomed.
-Ben
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 8:30 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: grounding question
Answer #3 =93 Make an appropriately sized monetary contribution to Ma
tt=99s Matronics Annual Contribution List for November and receive a
free copy of Bob Nuckolls Aero Electric in electronic form then no
dust is likely.
John
#40600
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 2:21 PM
Subject: RV10-List: grounding question
What are people doing for ground wires for the nav, landing, and pitot heat
? =C2-Are you running separate wires for ground or grounding locally to t
he airframe? =C2-This might be somewhat of a =9Cprimer war=9D
question as I=99ve heard some say always run ground wires and others
say ground locally. =C2-Aeroelectric says local ground for =9Cnon-
noisy=9D items is fine. =C2-Just wondering what others have done.
If airframe what kind of hardware do you use to get a solid ground connecti
on? =C2-Do you use regular AN nuts bolts and washers or do you use someth
ing like a lock washer that has more bite maybe?=C2- Do you cover the nut
/bolt with anything to slow any corrosion being that you need to clean the
primer off the metal at the point of contact?
Yes John I=99ll wipe the dust off the 43.13 J
-Ben Westfall
#40579
=C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com =C2- http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com =C2- http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com =C2- http://w
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com =C2- htt
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com =C2
- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.co
m =C2- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matroni
cs.com =C2- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.ma
================
====
======================== ht
tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com =C2
- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.co
m =C2- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matroni
cs.com =C2- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.ma
tronics.com =C2- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://foru
ms.matronics.com =C2- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http:/
/forums.matronics.com =C2- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List h
ttp://forums.matronics.com =C2- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-L
=======================
====
=======================
Message 23
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| Subject: | Aftermarket brake lines |
Those bums! I asked them if there was a pre-built standard brakeline at
32" and the guy just kept saying "i'll build them however long you want
them..." oh well. yours might be 1/2" longer, but mine's "custom" :)
cj
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Robin Marks
Sent: Sun 11/11/2007 9:18 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Aftermarket brake lines
CJ,
Thank you for the Brake Line write up. We ordered ALMOST the
same exact lines from the Baker Precision per your research. The
difference is we purchased a standard 32" length rather than a custom
31.5" length and saved a few $. The 32" units are $16.95 each.
Robin
Officially 1/2" longer than CJ :-)
probably don't work anymore. sorry. anyway, the brakeline writeup is
here:
http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Perfectlygoodairplane/Aftermarket_B
rake_Lines.html
cj
building an airplane - not sure what section anymore...
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: RV 10 for sale or trade |
Chris,
Thanks for the interest. A brief description:
- 2006 RV 10 built by Jim Sinkbeil and Jim Otey in Lewiston, Id. (phone
numbers on request).
- 147 hrs TTAF/Harsell prop, 147hrs SMOH Aerosport IO-540 (overhaul docs
on request).
- Engine has Airflow Performance FI, Laser ign, Slick mag, sump heat.
- Avionics - Dual Chelton screens, PS eng 8000 AP, SL 30, SL 40, Garm
327, EI MVP-50 engine analyser, back-up AI, ALT, AS, panel assembled by
Steinair.
- Interior professionally done.
- IFR cert, annual 6/2007, TAS 175 kts at 75%.
I'm upfront about costs. I bought the airplane about a year ago -
the asking price was $260K and I paid $230K, which I thought was a fair
price. If I put in an add for sale it will be for $220K - $225K. Stein
of steinair can give a fair evaluation of the plane - he knows it as the
10 built by "the Jims" of Lewiston. Hope this helps.
Steve Carlson (The panel can be seen online at steinair.com -
customer panels - Jim Sinkbeil and Jim Otey)
----- Original Message -----
From: CHRISTOPHER HARRIS
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV 10 for sale or trade
Steve, Please forward a couple int. and ext. photos to this address.
Also an asking price without trade. Thanks, Chris Harris
steve carlson <scbt@comcast.net> wrote:
I've owned 4 RV's and presently have a 10 I love flying. The problem
is that I have a new job and the airplane sits. I'd like to sell it or,
preferably, trade for a 7A or 9A plus cash. It's a beautiful 2006 IFR
certified 10, dual Cheltons, etc. The panel can be seen at steinair.com
- customer panels - Jim Sinkbeil and Jim Otey (Lewiston, ID). Pictures
and specs on request. Thanks for your time and happy building.
Steve Carlson
http://forums.matronics.com
===========
Message 25
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Sorry - responded to an e-mail and sent it to the wrong address. Steve
Message 26
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| Subject: | grounding question |
Ben,
The grounding tabs that Stein sells seem to work quite well riveted to the
structure with no paint between. The strobes I ground very close to the
battery-airframe ground, the nav lights in the wings, landing lights and
pitot heat I ground locally. Everything in the panel gets grounded to the
firewall. The lights in the tail I run grounds back to the battery ground
area. The headset jacks I do not ground, but use the fiber washers to keep
them isolated from ground. Everything from the stick grip(s) I ground under
the copilot seat, although most of those grounds are just grounding the
switch so when it is pushed it connects that circuit to ground to tell the
things to do it's thing.
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
_____
From: Ben Westfall [mailto:rv10@sinkrate.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 5:21 PM
Subject: RV10-List: grounding question
What are people doing for ground wires for the nav, landing, and pitot heat?
Are you running separate wires for ground or grounding locally to the
airframe? This might be somewhat of a "primer war" question as I've heard
some say always run ground wires and others say ground locally.
Aeroelectric says local ground for "non-noisy" items is fine. Just
wondering what others have done.
If airframe what kind of hardware do you use to get a solid ground
connection? Do you use regular AN nuts bolts and washers or do you use
something like a lock washer that has more bite maybe? Do you cover the
nut/bolt with anything to slow any corrosion being that you need to clean
the primer off the metal at the point of contact?
Yes John I'll wipe the dust off the 43.13 :-)
-Ben Westfall
#40579
Message 27
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There are only a few parts remaining in my box and this is one of them. This
appears to be a rt and lf part to be cut into two. It is listed as a Tank
Attach Angle, but I can not find it in the plans. Does anyone have a
recollection of this?
Thanks,
John G. 409
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Budget Buys - Trainers |
I stand corrected. I will tell you that they simply would not sell one to my former
plane partner and myself in late 2006.
(B&R) Blowing thru 1000 hours on the RV10 this week. I am beginning to see the
light at the end of the tunnel - but it is still dim. Mattituck IO-540 and 2x
prop due Dec/Jan.
Seem that the rules to stay on track are :
1. As few mods as possible. Stick to the excellent plans
2. Decide on your panel early
3. Order your non-Vans stuff well before you need it
4. Keep it simple - remember that you can always upgrade or change later
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/uggg
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145312#145312
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