RV10-List Digest Archive

Thu 11/15/07


Total Messages Posted: 23



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     0. 12:23 AM - Value of the List... (Matt Dralle)
     1. 04:32 AM - Re: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit (Patrick ONeill)
     2. 04:52 AM - Re: Tech Councelor - when is the right time (Phillips, Jack)
     3. 05:25 AM - Re: Tech Councelor - when is the right time (gary)
     4. 07:35 AM - Re: Tech Councelor - when is the right time (MauleDriver)
     5. 09:24 AM - Re: Tech Councelor - when is the right time (Pascal)
     6. 09:39 AM - Re: Fw: RV-A Nose gear AD ()
     7. 09:40 AM - Re: Trim troubles and mods (gary)
     8. 10:05 AM - Re: Tech Councelor - when is the right time (MauleDriver)
     9. 10:41 AM - Re: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit (Bill DeRouchey)
    10. 11:45 AM - Re: Trim troubles and mods (sergiolov)
    11. 12:24 PM - Re: Tech Councelor - when is the right time (jdalton77)
    12. 02:11 PM - Re: Trim troubles and mods (Bob-tcw)
    13. 02:26 PM - Re: Tech Councelor - when is the right time (John W. Cox)
    14. 02:38 PM - Wheel Fairing Air Access covers (Sam Marlow)
    15. 03:12 PM - Re: Tech Councelor - when is the right time (rv10builder)
    16. 03:24 PM - Extra Rivethead Door Handles (bcondrey)
    17. 03:37 PM - Re: Wheel Fairing Air Access covers (Bruce Patton)
    18. 05:43 PM - Re: Extra Rivethead Door Handles (bcondrey)
    19. 07:37 PM - Re: Wheel Fairing Air Access covers (Randy Lervold)
    20. 07:59 PM - Re: Trim troubles and mods (kilopapa@antelecom.net)
    21. 08:17 PM - RV Pilot at Whiteman (WHP) (Robin Marks)
    22. 08:20 PM - Check those tires. (John Dunne)
 
 
 


Message 0


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    Time: 12:23:32 AM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Value of the List...
    If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least $20 or $30 worth of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a subscription to some lame magazine or even a dinner out. Isn't the List worth at least that much to you? Wouldn't it be great if you could pay that amount and get a well-managed media source free of advertising, SPAM, and viruses? Come to think of it, you do... :-) Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support the Lists? Contribution Page: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Again, I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively through YOUR generosity!! Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Admin.


    Message 1


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    Time: 04:32:15 AM PST US
    From: "Patrick ONeill" <poneill@irealms.com>
    Subject: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit
    Thanks Bill. That's great info for the alignment. It is also great to hear some results from the compass observations. With the AHRS mounted so far aft of the lateral axis, are there any artifacts in the attitude indication? It sounds like no, but that was something I always wondered about. Best Regards, Patrick #40715 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill DeRouchey Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 5:48 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit Two successful Xbow 420 installations: Since the Xbow 420 incorporates orientation sensors and a three axis magnetometer we located the unit close to the origin of all three axis as practical but moved outside the hard iron magnetic fields. We constructed a flat plate approx .125 thick and installed it where the rear seat shoulder harness cable is bolted to the upper longeron. It spans the fuselage width wise and we relocated the seat belt cable to the front lip of this plate. Used the same three holes on each side that was originally for the shoulder harness anchor. Also over engineered it with an .063 Tee running laterally to stiffen any up and down vibrations. The NAV420 is on the top and centered laterally. I measured the magnetic fields around the elevator trim motor and the elevator trim motor/battery and they will interfere with a compass 24" away. Do not underestimate the field around the small elevator trim motor - it is significant. This location was outside both fore and aft magnetic fields and has a significant advantage. If the plate is flat on the longeron and at right angles to the yaw centerline it will automatically have two axis perfectly aligned. Simply run a string from front center to the tail center to form the yaw axis and center the NAV420 on this string to align the third axis. No installation correction was needed for either RV-10 with this approach. Do not even think of locating a magnetometer anywhere near the baggage compartment. The magnetic interference can easily be significant and uncontrollable. Sorry I do not have a picture. Bill DeRouchey N939SB, flying Patrick Thyssen <jump2@sbcglobal.net> wrote: Here is my mount for the 420 ahrs. I can build a shelf on the four posts if I need to get it 6 inchs higher away from battery and servo. I'm a good 20 " away now. Will try to demag the cable if not see about stainless. Pat Thyssen "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr@sprint.com> wrote: That nice gold finish is PPG Armor Grip. I think it is 900 and 901. Thank You Ray Doerr -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick ONeill Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 1:10 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit Thanks much for the pictures Ray! That helps a lot. Unfortunately, I don't think I can use that as the AHRS station. The xbow NAV 420 has an integrated 3-axis magnetometer. I can imagine the grief trying to situate it 6 inches from a main battery wire. So it's back to the shelf plan for me. But that might be another useful station for something else. I'll have to keep that bracket in mind for the future. By the way, how are you prepping the inside of the tail cone surfaces? Is that all just alodine? Looks great! Anyone else currently flying with OP EFIS? Any location success stories or problems with the NAV 420 AHRS? Best Regards, Patrick #40715 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R [NTK] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 6:01 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> I was working with Garmin here in Olathe on this bracket and testing it using my RV-10. Here are all the pictures I provided to Garmin during this process. Van's actually created the bracket with the feedback that was provided my Scott (Garmin) and myself. By the way, I don't have either AHRS, but this bracket still makes an excellent support for a 1" x 8" board when you need to crawl back into the tail. We are still working on the bracket for the Magnometer, problem is finding a good location that is free of magnetic interference to the standards which Garmin has set for the Certified installations. Thank You Ray Doerr 40250 N519RV -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick ONeill Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 6:08 AM Subject: RV10-List: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit I just noticed that Van's is offering an AHRS mounting kit for the 10: AHRS Mount Kit for the RV-10 Part Number = IF AHRS MOUNT-10 Description Mount for Attitude Heading Reference System unit. Provides parts to mount the AHRS unit for either the Garmin G900XT or the Grand Rapids EFIS. Locates unit behind baggage bulkhead on RV-7, RV-9, and RV-10. Has anyone received one of these or better yet, any photos? I'm not getting a clear picture of what it entails from


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:52:25 AM PST US
    Subject: Tech Councelor - when is the right time
    From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealth.com>
    Hi Mike, There is not a hard and fast rule about when the inspections need to be done, but in general, before a section is closed up, an inspection is probably appropriate. It was good for you to have the empennage inspected since most of the skills required to build the airplane are developed in that section. Since you are building a Q/B, most of the structural work has been done at the factory. I would have the T/C look at it when you've got most of the systems work done (fuel system, electrical system, etc.) to make sure you haven't created a dangerous situation with potential for chafing fuel lines or electrical wires, etc. I've just finished the empennage kit myself and have not yet gotten into the wing or fuselage so I don't know exactly when in the sequence you get into the systems work - it may be that comes in the finishing kit. It doesn't hurt to have more than three inspections during the course of the project,so I would recommend having the T/C look at your fuselage when you have the fiberglass work completed, particularly if your T/C knows something about fiberglass. I'm a T/C for our chapter, but my expertise is more in woodwork, welding and fabric work, with some experience in sheet metal (more being gained daily). This is my first all metal airplane and I know next to nothing about fiberglass. Bear in mind that very few T/C's are thoroughly knowledgeable about all aspects of aircraft construction, so be sure to ask if yours has the knowledge to really give you help on specific areas. Jack Phillips #40610 Empennage Tip Fairings -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 2:38 AM Subject: RV10-List: Tech Councelor - when is the right time I am a first time builder. I have done quite a bit of work on my Q/B fuse kit. I got my empenage approved by a T/C. When is another visit appropriate? -------- OSH '08 or Bust Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146097#146097 _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:25:37 AM PST US
    From: "gary" <speckter@comcast.net>
    Subject: Tech Councelor - when is the right time
    I tell folks, when you think about whether to have an inspection or not it is time. Heck it is always a good time to talk airplanes with another nut, co call your tech councilor and have a good time. Gary 40274 The fuselage went to the paint shop yesterday -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillips, Jack Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 7:52 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tech Councelor - when is the right time <Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealth.com> Hi Mike, There is not a hard and fast rule about when the inspections need to be done, but in general, before a section is closed up, an inspection is probably appropriate. It was good for you to have the empennage inspected since most of the skills required to build the airplane are developed in that section. Since you are building a Q/B, most of the structural work has been done at the factory. I would have the T/C look at it when you've got most of the systems work done (fuel system, electrical system, etc.) to make sure you haven't created a dangerous situation with potential for chafing fuel lines or electrical wires, etc. I've just finished the empennage kit myself and have not yet gotten into the wing or fuselage so I don't know exactly when in the sequence you get into the systems work - it may be that comes in the finishing kit. It doesn't hurt to have more than three inspections during the course of the project,so I would recommend having the T/C look at your fuselage when you have the fiberglass work completed, particularly if your T/C knows something about fiberglass. I'm a T/C for our chapter, but my expertise is more in woodwork, welding and fabric work, with some experience in sheet metal (more being gained daily). This is my first all metal airplane and I know next to nothing about fiberglass. Bear in mind that very few T/C's are thoroughly knowledgeable about all aspects of aircraft construction, so be sure to ask if yours has the knowledge to really give you help on specific areas. Jack Phillips #40610 Empennage Tip Fairings -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 2:38 AM Subject: RV10-List: Tech Councelor - when is the right time I am a first time builder. I have done quite a bit of work on my Q/B fuse kit. I got my empenage approved by a T/C. When is another visit appropriate? -------- OSH '08 or Bust Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146097#146097 _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:35:10 AM PST US
    From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Tech Councelor - when is the right time
    I've been installing systems (wiring, brakes, fuel, control system, strobe power) in the QB fuse for a few months. I plan for a formal TC inspection before closing and riveting the baggage floor in place. In watching my TC, he'll come by any time to advise but a formal inspection involves paperwork and a thorough inspection. Bill "finishing Andair valve, moving to control system" Watson 40605 Durham NC AirMike wrote: > > I am a first time builder. I have done quite a bit of work on my Q/B fuse kit. I got my empenage approved by a T/C. When is another visit appropriate? > > -------- > OSH '08 or Bust > Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146097#146097 > > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 09:24:15 AM PST US
    From: "Pascal" <rv10builder@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: Tech Councelor - when is the right time
    In watching my TC, he'll come by any time to advise but a formal inspection involves paperwork and a thorough inspection. ----- Not sure I understand. My TC came by, looked at the Empennage made some comments, took out a sheet he sends to the EAA to maintain his TC status and filled out " Reviewed RV-10 empennage, all work is satisfactory no problems found" We talked a little about the RV-10, about how I should squeeze the rivets a little more (which my gauge would disagree with! )but otherwise seemed like little other work for him. I am not saying this in a bad way he offered great suggestions and I appreciated the visit and time he took to come by. I can only think your TC believes he needs to do a thorough inspection, but my understanding is they are just there to answer any questions and assure they provide some guidance, not be an A&P and certify anything formally. My next TC will be the same person who happens to be a DAR and knows the RV's very well. Getting him has been tough but I want him to come by and review the work now versus later when I go for the final inspection, otherwise getting fellow builders has done the same for me than the TC.. which is what it sounds like your TC is doing. I don't even know how important that form is anyway.. For my DAR it is "suggested to show that a TC and/or other RV builders reviewed work and that I mention it somewhere in a log". Pascal Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "MauleDriver" <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 7:31 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tech Councelor - when is the right time > > I've been installing systems (wiring, brakes, fuel, control system, strobe > power) in the QB fuse for a few months. I plan for a formal TC inspection > before closing and riveting the baggage floor in place. > > In watching my TC, he'll come by any time to advise but a formal > inspection involves paperwork and a thorough inspection. > Bill "finishing Andair valve, moving to control system" Watson > 40605 > Durham NC > > > AirMike wrote: >> >> I am a first time builder. I have done quite a bit of work on my Q/B fuse >> kit. I got my empenage approved by a T/C. When is another visit >> appropriate? >> >> -------- >> OSH '08 or Bust >> Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146097#146097 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 09:39:07 AM PST US
    From: <jim@CombsFive.Com>
    Subject: Re: Fw: RV-A Nose gear AD
    The AD only applies to 2 seat versions of RV's =========================================================== From: "DejaVu" <wvu@ameritel.net> Subject: RV10-List: Fw: RV-A Nose gear AD FYI. Anh N591VU-105hrs ------------------ Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 8:52 PM Subject: [Mid-AtlRVwing] RV-A Nose gear AD There is a Mandatory Service Bulletin 07-11-09 for all Tricycle Gear RV,s. Check Van's site. Turtle __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Members | Calendar Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Visit Your Group Y! Sports for TV Access it for free Get Fantasy Sports stats on your TV. Yahoo! Finance It's Now Personal Guides, news, advice & more. Need traffic? Drive customers With search ads on Yahoo! . __,_._,___ ===========================================================


    Message 7


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    Time: 09:40:29 AM PST US
    From: "gary" <speckter@comcast.net>
    Subject: : RV10-List:Trim troubles and mods
    Could you also design a time out feature in this circuit to eliminate the runaway problem? Gary 40274 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 8:41 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List:Trim troubles and mods When this was last discussed, a few folks ask me for resistor values. I did a rough calculation and determined that about a 10 ohm resistor would be required to get it down to ~7 volts (assuming .6 amp draw) but that resistor would have to be quite large to dissipate nearly 3 watts. I redesigned the speed controller by using the ubiquitous 780x power regulator instead. In this case a 7806 regulates the input voltage down to 6 volts for up to 1 amp. The speed controller is activated by a switch on the flap torque tube where ,when the flaps are up, power to the trim motor is via the 7806 power regulator, any other flap position and trim motor runs at full speed. Much more efficient and elegant compared to a resistor. http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/90Electrical/RV10PitchTrim.pdf I encourage your development of products for the RV-10 and I think your trim controller is an excellent product. However, we all have the tendency to implement the "gold plated" solution when the more effective stainless steel would do. William http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ -------- Original Message -------- > > I'd like to share some insights into the engineering design considerations > regarding speed control circuits for DC motors. (the > Ray-Allen style trim servo uses a brushed DC motor) > I would discourage the use of a resistor type speed control for adjusting > the travel speed on the trim servos used in our RV aircraft for the > following reasons: > > Adding a series resistor to the trim motor limits the available current to > the motor and although it will slow the motor down it also limits the > available motor torque (i.e.. its ability to move the attached control > surface). This could be undesirable as the loading on the control surface > will vary with aircraft configuration and performance. Although you may > "tune" the resistor combination to work in one flight regime it may not be > what you need in another. Now perhaps there is a suitable compromise > value you may find "works" for your plane, but have you tested it thru > temperature, airspeed and aircraft loading extremes? The fundamental > problem is that series resistor forms a voltage divider with the attached > motor, as you load the motor down, its impedance drops, this means that > more of the voltage available from the aircraft bus will be dropped across > the resistor and less will be available for the motor as you load it down. > This effectively makes this method susceptible to problems over full > operating range of loads and supply voltages. Again, you may be able find > a "suitable" value that seems to work, but be careful to test over a wide > range of conditions. > A second, more long term problem associated with this method of speed > control has to do with motor life. A brushed DC motor can develop a > condition which will dramatically shorten its operating life if it is speed > controlled by reducing the available current available to the motor. The > phenomena is most prevalent in motors that are used for short durations or > intermittent duty. The condition that is likely to develop is that the > dust from the motor brushes will pack the slots of the motor's commutator. > This dust is a combination of conductive particles (carbon from the brushes) > and any oil from the motor bearings. This substance is like a conductive > paste and it gets wedged into the spaces between the commutator bars. The > paste effectively shorts out the motor over time. Normally, when the motor > is run at its designed voltage or when it controlled by reducing the > available motor voltage, there is plenty of current available to burn off > this conductive paste, and the motor lasts its full rated life. However, > if the motor is speed controlled by limiting the available current (eg. > using a series resistor dropper circuit) the ability to burn off this brush > paste is greatly compromised. The brush pasted remains packed in the > commutator and the motor effectively gets shorted out and stops moving. > This usually is noticed when the motor is turned on, and the brush paste > just cannot be cleared. The motor is then done. I've seen this effect > ruin dc motors within a dozen accumulated run hours. > > In the DC motor industry the accepted method of speed control for > brushed DC motors is to reduce the motor voltage without limiting the > available motor current. This is done by a number of methods which include > linear regulators, high frequency switching regulators or direct PWM (pulse > width modulation) to name a few. All of these techniques can reduce the > average voltage to the motor without limiting the available motor current. > > > > Sorry for the long post, but sometimes the engineering that goes to what > seems to be relatively simple can have significant consequences. > > > Bob Newman > TCW Technologies > www.tcwtech.com > >


    Message 8


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    Time: 10:05:56 AM PST US
    From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Tech Councelor - when is the right time
    I think we're talking about the same thing. I may be overstating the 'thorough' part. I was just trying to distinquish between asking him question about a specific issue and doing a 'review'. Both he and I want a review before I button up the floor, but I'll probably see him several times in the interim. Overstatement on my part. Pascal wrote: > > In watching my TC, he'll come by any time to advise but a formal > inspection involves paperwork and a thorough inspection. > > ----- > Not sure I understand. My TC came by, looked at the Empennage made > some comments, took out a sheet he sends to the EAA to maintain his TC > status and filled out " Reviewed RV-10 empennage, all work is > satisfactory no problems found" > We talked a little about the RV-10, about how I should squeeze the > rivets a little more (which my gauge would disagree with! )but > otherwise seemed like little other work for him. I am not saying this > in a bad way he offered great suggestions and I appreciated the visit > and time he took to come by. > > I can only think your TC believes he needs to do a thorough > inspection, but my understanding is they are just there to answer any > questions and assure they provide some guidance, not be an A&P and > certify anything formally. > > My next TC will be the same person who happens to be a DAR and knows > the RV's very well. Getting him has been tough but I want him to come > by and review the work now versus later when I go for the final > inspection, otherwise getting fellow builders has done the same for me > than the TC.. which is what it sounds like your TC is doing. I don't > even know how important that form is anyway.. For my DAR it is > "suggested to show that a TC and/or other RV builders reviewed work > and that I mention it somewhere in a log". > > Pascal > Do not archive > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "MauleDriver" <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com> > To: <rv10-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 7:31 AM > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tech Councelor - when is the right time > > >> >> I've been installing systems (wiring, brakes, fuel, control system, >> strobe power) in the QB fuse for a few months. I plan for a formal >> TC inspection before closing and riveting the baggage floor in place. >> >> In watching my TC, he'll come by any time to advise but a formal >> inspection involves paperwork and a thorough inspection. >> Bill "finishing Andair valve, moving to control system" Watson >> 40605 >> Durham NC >> >> >> AirMike wrote: >>> >>> I am a first time builder. I have done quite a bit of work on my Q/B >>> fuse kit. I got my empenage approved by a T/C. When is another visit >>> appropriate? >>> >>> -------- >>> OSH '08 or Bust >>> Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146097#146097 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > >


    Message 9


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    Time: 10:41:53 AM PST US
    From: Bill DeRouchey <billderou@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit
    Absolutely not. In fact, I have not observed any negatives with my installation. It could be because the XBOW NAV420 is an excellent gyro. It has published specifications and each gyro is individually calibrated for the small difference in sensors. To finish off the installation - secure the gyro with brass bolts, washers, and nuts. Tuck the GPS antenna underneath the vertical stablizer to fuselage fairing as far forward as possible and centered on the vertical stab to minimize the shadowing effect of the stab. My glass panel has a status that shows the loss of this GPS signal and I have never lost coverage while flying. Bill Patrick ONeill <poneill@irealms.com> wrote: Thanks Bill. That's great info for the alignment. It is also great to hear some results from the compass observations. With the AHRS mounted so far aft of the lateral axis, are there any artifacts in the attitude indication? It sounds like no, but that was something I always wondered about. Best Regards, Patrick #40715 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill DeRouchey Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 5:48 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit Two successful Xbow 420 installations: Since the Xbow 420 incorporates orientation sensors and a three axis magnetometer we located the unit close to the origin of all three axis as practical but moved outside the hard iron magnetic fields. We constructed a flat plate approx .125 thick and installed it where the rear seat shoulder harness cable is bolted to the upper longeron. It spans the fuselage width wise and we relocated the seat belt cable to the front lip of this plate. Used the same three holes on each side that was originally for the shoulder harness anchor. Also over engineered it with an .063 Tee running laterally to stiffen any up and down vibrations. The NAV420 is on the top and centered laterally. I measured the magnetic fields around the elevator trim motor and the elevator trim motor/battery and they will interfere with a compass 24" away. Do not underestimate the field around the small elevator trim motor - it is significant. This location was outside both fore and aft magnetic fields and has a significant advantage. If the plate is flat on the longeron and at right angles to the yaw centerline it will automatically have two axis perfectly aligned. Simply run a string from front center to the tail center to form the yaw axis and center the NAV420 on this string to align the third axis. No installation correction was needed for either RV-10 with this approach. Do not even think of locating a magnetometer anywhere near the baggage compartment. The magnetic interference can easily be significant and uncontrollable. Sorry I do not have a picture. Bill DeRouchey N939SB, flying Patrick Thyssen <jump2@sbcglobal.net> wrote: Here is my mount for the 420 ahrs. I can build a shelf on the four posts if I need to get it 6 inchs higher away from battery and servo. I'm a good 20 " away now. Will try to demag the cable if not see about stainless. Pat Thyssen "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr@sprint.com> wrote: That nice gold finish is PPG Armor Grip. I think it is 900 and 901. Thank You Ray Doerr -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick ONeill Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 1:10 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit Thanks much for the pictures Ray! That helps a lot. Unfortunately, I don't think I can use that as the AHRS station. The xbow NAV 420 has an integrated 3-axis magnetometer. I can imagine the grief trying to situate it 6 inches from a main battery wire. So it's back to the shelf plan for me. But that might be another useful station for something else. I'll have to keep that bracket in mind for the future. By the way, how are you prepping the inside of the tail cone surfaces? Is that all just alodine? Looks great! Anyone else currently flying with OP EFIS? Any location success stories or problems with the NAV 420 AHRS? Best Regards, Patrick #40715 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R [NTK] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 6:01 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> I was working with Garmin here in Olathe on this bracket and testing it using my RV-10. Here are all the pictures I provided to Garmin during this process. Van's actually created the bracket with the feedback that was provided my Scott (Garmin) and myself. By the way, I don't have either AHRS, but this bracket still makes an excellent support for a 1" x 8" board when you need to crawl back into the tail. We are still working on the bracket for the Magnometer, problem is finding a good location that is free of magnetic interference to the standards which Garmin has set for the Certified installations. Thank You Ray Doerr 40250 N519RV -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick ONeill Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 6:08 AM Subject: RV10-List: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit I just noticed that Van's is offering an AHRS mounting kit for the 10: AHRS Mount Kit for the RV-10 Part Number = IF AHRS MOUNT-10 Description Mount for Attitude Heading Reference System unit. Provides parts to mount the AHRS unit for either the Garmin G900XT or the Grand Rapids EFIS. Locates unit behind baggage bulkhead on RV-7, RV-9, and RV-10. Has anyone received one of these or better yet, any photos? I'm not getting a clear picture of what it entails from href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com


    Message 10


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    Time: 11:45:50 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: : RV10-List:Trim troubles and mods
    From: "sergiolov" <dd@vtesrl.it>
    I am going to use your circuit for my trim. However, seems that there is a mistake in the wiring of the relays,that in this configuration shorts the +12 to ground, unless there is something of which I am not aware. Sergio RV8 82041, flying RV10, finish kit wcurtis(at)nerv10.com wrote: > When this was last discussed, a few folks ask me for resistor values. I did a rough calculation and determined that about a 10 ohm resistor would be required to get it down to ~7 volts (assuming .6 amp draw) but that resistor would have to be quite large to dissipate nearly 3 watts. > > I redesigned the speed controller by using the ubiquitous 780x power regulator instead. In this case a 7806 regulates the input voltage down to 6 volts for up to 1 amp. The speed controller is activated by a switch on the flap torque tube where ,when the flaps are up, power to the trim motor is via the 7806 power regulator, any other flap position and trim motor runs at full speed. Much more efficient and elegant compared to a resistor. > > http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/90Electrical/RV10PitchTrim.pdf > > I encourage your development of products for the RV-10 and I think your trim controller is an excellent product. However, we all have the tendency to implement the "gold plated" solution when the more effective stainless steel would do. > > William > http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ > > ------ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146263#146263


    Message 11


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    Time: 12:24:59 PM PST US
    From: "jdalton77" <jdalton77@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Tech Councelor - when is the right time
    I asked my TC about this and his reponse was that he was a volunteer, and he was there to offer any advice I might need, and to "get another set of eyes" on the project and perhaps point out some problems he might see. A TC is not an "inspector" like a DAR is, but more like your friendly neighborhood builder that is more experience than I am. A TC visit(s) is not required (although I would recommend it). The forms he fills out are not for our planes, but for him to maintain his status as a TC with EAA. Jeff Dalton Wings ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pascal" <rv10builder@verizon.net> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 12:17 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tech Councelor - when is the right time > > In watching my TC, he'll come by any time to advise but a formal > inspection involves paperwork and a thorough inspection. > > ----- > Not sure I understand. My TC came by, looked at the Empennage made some > comments, took out a sheet he sends to the EAA to maintain his TC status > and filled out " Reviewed RV-10 empennage, all work is satisfactory no > problems found" > We talked a little about the RV-10, about how I should squeeze the rivets > a little more (which my gauge would disagree with! )but otherwise seemed > like little other work for him. I am not saying this in a bad way he > offered great suggestions and I appreciated the visit and time he took to > come by. > > I can only think your TC believes he needs to do a thorough inspection, > but my understanding is they are just there to answer any questions and > assure they provide some guidance, not be an A&P and certify anything > formally. > > My next TC will be the same person who happens to be a DAR and knows the > RV's very well. Getting him has been tough but I want him to come by and > review the work now versus later when I go for the final inspection, > otherwise getting fellow builders has done the same for me than the TC.. > which is what it sounds like your TC is doing. I don't even know how > important that form is anyway.. For my DAR it is "suggested to show that a > TC and/or other RV builders reviewed work and that I mention it somewhere > in a log". > > Pascal > Do not archive > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MauleDriver" <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com> > To: <rv10-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 7:31 AM > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tech Councelor - when is the right time > > >> >> I've been installing systems (wiring, brakes, fuel, control system, >> strobe power) in the QB fuse for a few months. I plan for a formal TC >> inspection before closing and riveting the baggage floor in place. >> >> In watching my TC, he'll come by any time to advise but a formal >> inspection involves paperwork and a thorough inspection. >> Bill "finishing Andair valve, moving to control system" Watson >> 40605 >> Durham NC >> >> >> AirMike wrote: >>> >>> I am a first time builder. I have done quite a bit of work on my Q/B >>> fuse kit. I got my empenage approved by a T/C. When is another visit >>> appropriate? >>> >>> -------- >>> OSH '08 or Bust >>> Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146097#146097 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > >


    Message 12


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    Time: 02:11:02 PM PST US
    From: "Bob-tcw" <rnewman@tcwtech.com>
    Subject: Re: : RV10-List:Trim troubles and mods
    Don't forget to account for the heat-sinking of the linear regulator. If your design assumtion is for 0.5 amps of current at 6 volts on the servo, that leaves 8 volts across the regulator for a supply voltage of 14 volts. The power dissipation in the regulator will be 8 x 0.5 = 4 watts. Also, don't forget to handle raw electronic components such as voltage regulators with proper static safe procautions. Avoid making walking wounded that are likely to fail at the least timely moment. Good luck rolling your own. -Bob Newman www.tcwtech.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "sergiolov" <dd@vtesrl.it> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 2:44 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List:Trim troubles and mods > > I am going to use your circuit for my trim. However, seems that there is a > mistake in the wiring of the relays,that in this configuration shorts the > +12 to ground, unless there is something of which I am not aware. > Sergio > RV8 82041, flying > RV10, finish kit > > > wcurtis(at)nerv10.com wrote: >> When this was last discussed, a few folks ask me for resistor values. I >> did a rough calculation and determined that about a 10 ohm resistor would >> be required to get it down to ~7 volts (assuming .6 amp draw) but that >> resistor would have to be quite large to dissipate nearly 3 watts. >> >> I redesigned the speed controller by using the ubiquitous 780x power >> regulator instead. In this case a 7806 regulates the input voltage down >> to 6 volts for up to 1 amp. The speed controller is activated by a >> switch on the flap torque tube where ,when the flaps are up, power to the >> trim motor is via the 7806 power regulator, any other flap position and >> trim motor runs at full speed. Much more efficient and elegant compared >> to a resistor. >> >> http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/90Electrical/RV10PitchTrim.pdf >> >> I encourage your development of products for the RV-10 and I think your >> trim controller is an excellent product. However, we all have the >> tendency to implement the "gold plated" solution when the more effective >> stainless steel would do. >> >> William >> http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ >> >> ------ > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146263#146263 > > >


    Message 13


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    Time: 02:26:05 PM PST US
    Subject: Tech Councelor - when is the right time
    From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
    The purpose for the paperwork is so that the EAA has a documented record to track trends and quality of build progress and the work of their EAA members. Some TCs may make brief and vague comments many are more thorough. I do not see a value in generic phrases just to meet my quota (of two per year). This year it has been six with two scheduled in the next two weeks. We are volunteers because we agreed not to charge a fee. Quality of build, safety and security of hardware, potential areas of known issue and a personal perspective from "Walking the Walk" are the desired outcome from TC visits. They serve a positive purpose for the EAA, the builder and for the community. I have seen some really good work which I think this web has helped to elevate. Those who think the DAR is going to complete an extensive "Inspection" may be dishearted at its conclusion only to be balanced by the thrill of the "Pushing of Paperwork for the FAA". - In Boston for the weekend John Cox TC only while conducting the progressives. Otherwise its just another builder with an A&P with I/A who does it for a living and loves RV-10s Do not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of jdalton77 Sent: Thu 11/15/2007 12:19 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tech Councelor - when is the right time I asked my TC about this and his reponse was that he was a volunteer, and he was there to offer any advice I might need, and to "get another set of eyes" on the project and perhaps point out some problems he might see. A TC is not an "inspector" like a DAR is, but more like your friendly neighborhood builder that is more experience than I am. A TC visit(s) is not required (although I would recommend it). The forms he fills out are not for our planes, but for him to maintain his status as a TC with EAA. Jeff Dalton Wings ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pascal" <rv10builder@verizon.net> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 12:17 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tech Councelor - when is the right time > > In watching my TC, he'll come by any time to advise but a formal > inspection involves paperwork and a thorough inspection. > > ----- > Not sure I understand. My TC came by, looked at the Empennage made some > comments, took out a sheet he sends to the EAA to maintain his TC status > and filled out " Reviewed RV-10 empennage, all work is satisfactory no > problems found" > We talked a little about the RV-10, about how I should squeeze the rivets > a little more (which my gauge would disagree with! )but otherwise seemed > like little other work for him. I am not saying this in a bad way he > offered great suggestions and I appreciated the visit and time he took to > come by. > > I can only think your TC believes he needs to do a thorough inspection, > but my understanding is they are just there to answer any questions and > assure they provide some guidance, not be an A&P and certify anything > formally. > > My next TC will be the same person who happens to be a DAR and knows the > RV's very well. Getting him has been tough but I want him to come by and > review the work now versus later when I go for the final inspection, > otherwise getting fellow builders has done the same for me than the TC.. > which is what it sounds like your TC is doing. I don't even know how > important that form is anyway.. For my DAR it is "suggested to show that a > TC and/or other RV builders reviewed work and that I mention it somewhere > in a log". > > Pascal > Do not archive > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MauleDriver" <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com> > To: <rv10-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 7:31 AM > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tech Councelor - when is the right time > > >> >> I've been installing systems (wiring, brakes, fuel, control system, >> strobe power) in the QB fuse for a few months. I plan for a formal TC >> inspection before closing and riveting the baggage floor in place. >> >> In watching my TC, he'll come by any time to advise but a formal >> inspection involves paperwork and a thorough inspection. >> Bill "finishing Andair valve, moving to control system" Watson >> 40605 >> Durham NC >> >> >> AirMike wrote: >>> >>> I am a first time builder. I have done quite a bit of work on my Q/B >>> fuse kit. I got my empenage approved by a T/C. When is another visit >>> appropriate? >>> >>> -------- >>> OSH '08 or Bust >>> Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146097#146097 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > >


    Message 14


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    Time: 02:38:54 PM PST US
    From: Sam Marlow <sam@fr8dog.net>
    Subject: Wheel Fairing Air Access covers
    I've looked and looked on the web for these things. The little spring assisted access door to put air in your tires, with wheel pants installed. Does anybody remember the part #? Thanks, Sam Marlow #40157 Flying now


    Message 15


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    Time: 03:12:20 PM PST US
    From: rv10builder <rv10builder@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: Tech Councelor - when is the right time
    At first I can honestly say I was a little intimidated at the idea of a tech counselor going over my project and offering constructive criticism. In fact, just the opposite happened. I found that they offer invaluable advise that has saved me time and money on my project! I made countless decisions based upon their past experience. This was especially important to me being a first time builder. Find one (or two) and get them involved ASAP...you'll be glad you did. (And a special thanks to my T.C.'s Mr. Cartwright and Mr. Masys for their time!) Brian Sutherland Nashville, TN Finishing! http://www.mykitlog.com/rv10builder AirMike wrote: > > I am a first time builder. I have done quite a bit of work on my Q/B fuse kit. I got my empenage approved by a T/C. When is another visit appropriate? > > -------- > OSH '08 or Bust > Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146097#146097 > > >


    Message 16


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    Time: 03:24:41 PM PST US
    Subject: Extra Rivethead Door Handles
    From: "bcondrey" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
    I ordered a set of the door handles and latching pins but decided to go with flush door handles. I will keep the pins but will let the door handles go for same price I paid - $78 for the pair plus $5 to cover shipping. Just received today and still in the wrapping as delivered from Rivethead. These are direct replacements for the exterior handles that you fabricate on manual page 45-9. http://www.rivethead-aero.com/rv10_005.htm As others have said, his products are terrific it's just his lack of responsiveness/communications coupled with a multi-month delay that's the problem. I wanted the pins and decided to go ahead and take delivery of the handles too since I was sure that somebody would want them. Bob #40105 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146322#146322


    Message 17


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    Time: 03:37:26 PM PST US
    From: Bruce Patton <bpattonsoa@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Wheel Fairing Air Access covers
    I believe that Aircraft Spruce has them. They are fragile and will break. I recommend steel hole plugs, at your hardware store. Paint up a few extra, they can get lost. Bruce Sam Marlow <sam@fr8dog.net> wrote: I've looked and looked on the web for these things. The little spring assisted access door to put air in your tires, with wheel pants installed. Does anybody remember the part #? Thanks, Sam Marlow #40157 Flying now


    Message 18


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    Time: 05:43:29 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Extra Rivethead Door Handles
    From: "bcondrey" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
    That didn't take long! Handles are spoken for, but if you're interested let me know just in case something falls through. Bob Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146352#146352


    Message 19


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    Time: 07:37:14 PM PST US
    From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
    Subject: Re: Wheel Fairing Air Access covers
    I suspect you're describing these... http://www.romeolima.com/RV3works/IdeasProducts/ideasproducts.htm#AccessD oors Randy Lervold RV-3B, flying ----- Original Message ----- From: Sam Marlow To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 2:31 PM Subject: RV10-List: Wheel Fairing Air Access covers I've looked and looked on the web for these things. The little spring assisted access door to put air in your tires, with wheel pants installed. Does anybody remember the part #? Thanks, Sam Marlow #40157 Flying now


    Message 20


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    Time: 07:59:04 PM PST US
    From: kilopapa@antelecom.net
    Subject: Re: : RV10-List:Trim troubles and mods
    Thanks for the informative and technical post. I like that. Kevin 40494 ----- Original Message Follows ----- From: "Bob-tcw" <rnewman@tcwtech.com> Subject: Re: RV10-List:Trim troubles and mods rnewman@tcwtech.com> > >I'd like to share some insights into the engineering design >considerations regarding speed control circuits for DC >motors........... > >Bob Newman >TCW Technologies >www.tcwtech.com


    Message 21


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    Time: 08:17:27 PM PST US
    Subject: RV Pilot at Whiteman (WHP)
    From: "Robin Marks" <robin1@mrmoisture.com>
    I recall not too long ago there was a -10 builder based at Whiteman (WHP). I was hoping to speak with you regarding field specifics. Robin 805-801-8550


    Message 22


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    Time: 08:20:18 PM PST US
    From: "John Dunne" <acs@acspropeller.com.au>
    Subject: Check those tires.
    Had my first ever blow out in a nose tyre last night. Hours on tyre..28 weeks calendar TSN. Cycles on tyre..1..as in, I moved it one complete revolution in the shed. Man, I was sure I should get at least 2 revolutions for my money. Here's hoping I can get the old girl out of the shed without blowing out the mains and skidding off into the pond. John 40315 (instrument panel) Do not archive




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