RV10-List Digest Archive

Thu 11/22/07


Total Messages Posted: 25



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     0. 12:23 AM - What Are You Thankful For...? (Matt Dralle)
     1. 12:43 AM - FW: RV-10 Door Incidents (rtitsworth)
     2. 05:26 AM - Re: RV-10 Total Flight Time - Submit yours (Tim Olson)
     3. 05:33 AM - Re: RV-10 Total Flight Time - Submit yours (tintopranch)
     4. 05:54 AM - Re: Trutrak AP (Perry Casson - Home)
     5. 06:08 AM - Re: RV-10 Total Flight Time - Submit yours (JSMcGrew@aol.com)
     6. 06:21 AM - Re: Trutrak AP (Tim Olson)
     7. 06:31 AM - Re: RV-10 Total Flight Time - Submit yoursRV-10 Total Flight Time - Submit yours (David C. Watterson)
     8. 06:59 AM - Re: RV-10 Total Flight Time - Submit yoursRV-10 Total Flight Time - Submit yours (Don Fanning)
     9. 08:33 AM - pg 20-6 inboard bottom wing skin nutplate (Jae Chang)
    10. 08:43 AM - Re: RV-10 Door Incidents (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
    11. 08:50 AM - Re: pg 20-6 inboard bottom wing skin nutplate (James Hein)
    12. 09:24 AM - Re: RV-10 Door Incidents (William Curtis)
    13. 10:01 AM - Re: Trutrak AP (Scott Schmidt)
    14. 10:26 AM - Re: RV-10 Door Incidents (Robin Marks)
    15. 10:28 AM - Re: RV-10 Door Incidents (rtitsworth)
    16. 11:04 AM - Re: RV-10 Door Incidents (Tim Olson)
    17. 01:11 PM - Re: RV-10 Door Incidents (Scott Schmidt)
    18. 01:33 PM - Re: RV-10 Door Incidents (Jesse Saint)
    19. 02:23 PM - Manifold Pressure (McGANN, Ron)
    20. 02:52 PM - Re: Manifold Pressure (Rene Felker)
    21. 04:53 PM - Fine Wire Spark Plug Offer (Doerr, Ray R [NTK])
    22. 08:30 PM - Re: RV-10 Door Incidents (Les Kearney)
    23. 09:13 PM - Re: RV-10 Door Incidents (Tim Olson)
    24. 09:35 PM - Re: Manifold Pressure Fitting (Bill Schlatterer)
 
 
 


Message 0


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    Time: 12:23:35 AM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: What Are You Thankful For...?
    Dear Listers, Here in the United States, Thursday is our National day of Thanksgiving. Many of us will be traveling to be with our families and friends to share in generous feasts of plenty and giving thanks for many blessings that have been bestowed upon us. Many Listers have expressed over the last couple of weeks how thankful they are for the Email Lists and Forums here on the Matronics servers and for all of the assistance and comradery they have experienced being a part of the Lists. One of my favorite kind of comments is when write to me and says something like, "Its the first thing I do in the morning while I'm having my morning coffee!". That's a wonderful tribute to the purpose and function of these Lists. Its always great to hear I'm not the only one that jumps out of bed each morning to check my List email!! Won't you take a minute today and show your appreciation for these Lists and for their continued operation and upgrade? The List Contribution Site is: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you in advance for your kind consideration, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator


    Message 1


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    Time: 12:43:25 AM PST US
    From: "rtitsworth" <rtitsworth@mindspring.com>
    Subject: RV-10 Door Incidents
    Tim, etal I'm a Lancair builder, but lurk here because of all the good experimental dialog, much of which still applies regardless of the airframe. For those RV'ers taking your door message to heart, we Lancair builder/flyers share the same door importance/fate. FYI, attached are a few personal photos of a Lancair Columbia that had a door open in flight near Indianapolis. The slipstream "tore" the left (pilot) door off, after it became unlatched in-flight. The door then struck the top of the right wing - yes, up over the top of the aircraft and down into the wing while in-flight. The damage to the wing skin was significant, into the core, much more than cosmetic, but not catastrophic. Note: that area is the fuel tank on a Lancair. The door then, struck the right Hstab. I'd guess it would be hard to do that much damage with a good full sledge hammer blow (significant). As a result of that impact, the fuselage was cracked under the tail. The longitudinal crack is at the fuselage 1/2 mold joining line (joggle). The circumferential crack(s) are through the outer skin, core, and inner skin. The entire tail was loose/wobbly to the touch. From seeing it myself, I can't imaging the tail would have stayed on too much longer or in a stiff crosswind landing. The pilot was able to declare an emergency and land, but was "very" lucky. Also keep in mind this was a Columbia which is certified in the utility class and VNE of 235 kts - quite strong - perhaps even more so than either our RV or ES birds. Now a door latch annunciator (and checklist) believer, Rick Titsworth Lancair ES, part of the fixed gear fraternity ;-) 1000+ hrs, Mutli, Com, IFR, land & sea p.s. Tim, I'd love to read your N289DT post, but do not have an RV#. -----Original Message----- Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incidents Sorry to not post just all good cheer before a holiday, but a safety message well received should be cheery, right?


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:26:06 AM PST US
    From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
    Subject: Re: RV-10 Total Flight Time - Submit yours
    Just re-cleaning the thread.... I'd like to kind of get a quick informal survey for a couple days and see if we can find out what kind of hours we're gathering as a fleet. If you have a flying RV-10, reply to this post with your N-number and total hours and lets see what kind of running total we can come up with in the next couple days. From there, we can expand on it and make some wild assumptions about the fleet based on about 110-115 flying. No major purpose for this, but it seemed like a cool thing to do. If you know of other RV-10's that may not post to the list, and want to post their numbers, go ahead. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive ************************************ **** RV-10 total flying hours **** **** (as of approx. 11/22-23/07 **** ************************************ TOTAL SO FAR: 2851 (16 of 110+) ** Wow, it looks like the fleet hours for the -10 are probably well over 10,000 if we continue anywhere near this rate** Hours N-Number ----- -------- 310 N104CD 580 N64VC 155 K203JJ 85 N372RV 175 N728DD 20 ZK-RVT 86 N331DJ 290 N104XP 20 C-FMHP 340 N519RV 160 N410MR 85 N602WT 225 N610RV 70 C-FXCS 65 N184JM 185 N710RV


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:33:48 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: RV-10 Total Flight Time - Submit yours
    From: "tintopranch" <mark_sutherland@yahoo.com>
    95 611TT -------- MARK SUTHERLAND RV-10 40292 Flying since June 07 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147904#147904


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:54:36 AM PST US
    From: Perry Casson - Home <pcasson@sasktel.net>
    Subject: Trutrak AP
    Pretty darn sure pressing "Alt" a 2nd time would turn off Alt Hold on my unit. Not sure what version I'm running but will check later today. Perry _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 11:29 PM Subject: RV10-List: Trutrak AP I have have the Digiflite II V2.20. The aircraft is not flying; roll servo harness is in dsub for wing connection. pitch servo harness is connected to the elevator control horn. When testing the controller, I find that the units turns on and properly indicates when receiving the GPS signal. The Problem is that the ALT Hold function can not be disengaged without going into setup mode and and turning off the pitch servo altogether. Is something wrong with the harness? the unit? or are these strange results in response to a system only partially connected? TT has updated the software once already and the aircraft has not left the garage.


    Message 5


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    Time: 06:08:06 AM PST US
    From: JSMcGrew@aol.com
    Subject: Re: RV-10 Total Flight Time - Submit yours
    In a message dated 11/22/2007 8:28:10 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, Tim@MyRV10.com writes: --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> Just re-cleaning the thread.... I'd like to kind of get a quick informal survey for a couple days and see if we can find out what kind of hours we're gathering as a fleet. If you have a flying RV-10, reply to this post with your N-number and total hours and lets see what kind of running total we can come up with in the next couple days. From there, we can expand on it and make some wild assumptions about the fleet based on about 110-115 flying. No major purpose for this, but it seemed like a cool thing to do. If you know of other RV-10's that may not post to the list, and want to post their numbers, go ahead. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive ************************************ **** RV-10 total flying hours **** **** (as of approx. 11/22-23/07 **** ************************************ TOTAL SO FAR: 2851 (16 of 110+) ** Wow, it looks like the fleet hours for the -10 are probably well over 10,000 if we continue anywhere near this rate** Hours N-Number ----- -------- 310 N104CD 580 N64VC 155 K203JJ 85 N372RV 175 N728DD 20 ZK-RVT 86 N331DJ 290 N104XP 20 C-FMHP 340 N519RV 160 N410MR 85 N602WT 225 N610RV 70 C-FXCS 65 N184JM 185 N710RV 100 N312JE **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:21:04 AM PST US
    From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
    Subject: Re: Trutrak AP
    Yeah, now David sent me a manual to skim over and that's what it said in the manual. But, what I think we're seeing here is the difference in variation between TruTrak Digiflight II models. I/we have the VSGV model, which has both lateral and vertical hold and heading select, climb/descent speed select, and GPSS/GPSV modes. On that model, with GPSV, the AP is always in a mode with 2 axis being controlled. If you tap the ALT button it toggles between GPSV and HOLD (or vertical command) modes. There is no way out except to disable the servo. It seems like a big limitation but in practice it isn't. Now, if you have a model like the VSG, or something lesser than VSGV, then I would bet that this is why the discrepancy because for those, when you tap ALT, it would not have a GPSV mode to select. So that kind of explains why yours would be one way and his/ours would be another. The only people who would benefit from the VSGV are people who have an EFIS or 480 type system that can drive the AP vertically...but that's kind of a huge benefit. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Perry Casson - Home wrote: > Pretty darn sure pressing Alt a 2^nd time would turn off Alt Hold on > my unit. Not sure what version Im running but will check later today. > > > > Perry > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *David McNeill > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 21, 2007 11:29 PM > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: Trutrak AP > > > > I have have the Digiflite II V2.20. The aircraft is not flying; roll > servo harness is in dsub for wing connection. pitch servo harness is > connected to the elevator control horn. When testing the controller, I > find that the units turns on and properly indicates when receiving the > GPS signal. The Problem is that the **ALT Hold** function can not be > disengaged without going into setup mode and and turning off the pitch > servo altogether. Is something wrong with the harness? the unit? or are > these strange results in response to a system only partially > connected? TT has updated the software once already and the aircraft has > not left the garage. > > * * > > * * > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > * * >


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:31:35 AM PST US
    From: "David C. Watterson" <dcw@dddirectories.com>
    Subject: Re: RV-10 Total Flight Time - Submit yoursRV-10 Total Flight
    Time - Submit yours -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:25 AM Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Total Flight Time - Submit yours I'd like to kind of get a quick informal survey for a couple days and see if we can find out what kind of hours we're gathering as a fleet. If you have a flying RV-10, take this post, add your N-number and total hours to the bottom of the list, (**Round it to the nearest 5) and TRIM OUT ALL THE JUNK THAT GETS ADDED BELOW IT (We'll try to keep it a clean and lean email), and lets see what kind of running total we can come up with in the next couple days. From there, we can expand on it and make some wild assumptions about the fleet based on about 110-115 flying. No major purpose for this, but it seemed like a cool thing to do. If you know of other RV-10's that may not post to the list, and want to post their numbers, go ahead. I'll add what I know was Vic's before he sold it. -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying ************************************ **** RV-10 total flying hours **** **** (as of approx. 11/22-23/07 **** ************************************ 310 N104CD 580 N64VC 225 N610RV 291 N2733K 4:28 PM


    Message 8


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    Time: 06:59:35 AM PST US
    From: "Don Fanning" <drdonfa@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: RV-10 Total Flight Time - Submit yoursRV-10 Total Flight
    Time - Submit yours I'm Don Fanning, owner of RV10, N415EC, and have flown 194 hrs since new. Don On Nov 22, 2007 9:30 AM, David C. Watterson <dcw@dddirectories.com> wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:25 AM > Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Total Flight Time - Submit yours > > > I'd like to kind of get a quick informal survey for a couple > days and see if we can find out what kind of hours we're > gathering as a fleet. If you have a flying RV-10, take this > post, add your N-number and total hours to the bottom of the list, > (**Round it to the nearest 5) and TRIM OUT ALL THE JUNK > THAT GETS ADDED BELOW IT (We'll try to keep it a clean > and lean email), and lets see what kind of running total > we can come up with in the next couple days. From there, > we can expand on it and make some wild assumptions about the fleet > based on about 110-115 flying. No major purpose for this, but it > seemed like a cool thing to do. If you know of other RV-10's that > may not post to the list, and want to post their numbers, go ahead. > I'll add what I know was Vic's before he sold it. > > -- > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > > > ************************************ > **** RV-10 total flying hours **** > **** (as of approx. 11/22-23/07 **** > ************************************ > > 310 N104CD > 580 N64VC > 225 N610RV > 291 N2733K > > > 4:28 PM > > -- Don Liberty University Of: 434-592-4127 Cel: 434-944-5347 email: drdonfa@gmail.com Skype: drdonfanning MSN Messenger: drdonfa Web: www.luglobal.com


    Message 9


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    Time: 08:33:08 AM PST US
    From: Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10@jline.com>
    Subject: pg 20-6 inboard bottom wing skin nutplate
    Happy thanksgiving! i know it's a holiday, because i always end up with a problem on the start of a holiday. http://www.jline.com/log/aviation/build/airframe/wings/photos/sec20/IMG_5509.html http://www.jline.com/log/aviation/build/airframe/wings/photos/sec20/IMG_5510.html The above photos show the bottom inboard wing rib. You can see where one of the nutplate hole patterns in the skin, lines up right between a notch in the rib flange. On page 20-6, it calls for a K1100-08 here, which matches the hole pattern pre-punched into the bottom skin, but this will make for an awkward rivet in the notch without a shim or another type of nutplate. Nothing in the archives about this. What am i missing or did i do wrong? Jae 40533 - back to the wings


    Message 10


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    Time: 08:43:48 AM PST US
    From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
    Subject: RV-10 Door Incidents
    Rick, Thanks for sharing this, it is indeed valuable information and shows the potential damage our gull wing doors can cause from a sudden departure in flight. I have/am considering a strap that limits the doors opening to 6 inches or so for a combination of safety, ability to leave the door "cracked" in hot climates while on the ground, and as a strap to grab to shut the door. I'll probably do some experimenting once I get the doors installed. I think it's great that our list is considered not only civil enough, but also informative enough to attract pilots and builders from other aircraft ranks. Thanks for contributing to our greater knowledge! Michael Sausen -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rtitsworth Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 2:03 AM Subject: FW: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incidents Tim, etal I'm a Lancair builder, but lurk here because of all the good experimental dialog, much of which still applies regardless of the airframe. For those RV'ers taking your door message to heart, we Lancair builder/flyers share the same door importance/fate. FYI, attached are a few personal photos of a Lancair Columbia that had a door open in flight near Indianapolis. The slipstream "tore" the left (pilot) door off, after it became unlatched in-flight. The door then struck the top of the right wing - yes, up over the top of the aircraft and down into the wing while in-flight. The damage to the wing skin was significant, into the core, much more than cosmetic, but not catastrophic. Note: that area is the fuel tank on a Lancair. The door then, struck the right Hstab. I'd guess it would be hard to do that much damage with a good full sledge hammer blow (significant). As a result of that impact, the fuselage was cracked under the tail. The longitudinal crack is at the fuselage 1/2 mold joining line (joggle). The circumferential crack(s) are through the outer skin, core, and inner skin. The entire tail was loose/wobbly to the touch. From seeing it myself, I can't imaging the tail would have stayed on too much longer or in a stiff crosswind landing. The pilot was able to declare an emergency and land, but was "very" lucky. Also keep in mind this was a Columbia which is certified in the utility class and VNE of 235 kts - quite strong - perhaps even more so than either our RV or ES birds. Now a door latch annunciator (and checklist) believer, Rick Titsworth Lancair ES, part of the fixed gear fraternity ;-) 1000+ hrs, Mutli, Com, IFR, land & sea p.s. Tim, I'd love to read your N289DT post, but do not have an RV#. -----Original Message----- Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incidents Sorry to not post just all good cheer before a holiday, but a safety message well received should be cheery, right?


    Message 11


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    Time: 08:50:21 AM PST US
    From: James Hein <n8vim@arrl.net>
    Subject: Re: pg 20-6 inboard bottom wing skin nutplate
    Here's a photo of mine; I was told to just rivet it (the rivet will expand slightly): -Jim 40384 Jae Chang wrote: > > Happy thanksgiving! i know it's a holiday, because i always end up > with a problem on the start of a holiday. > > http://www.jline.com/log/aviation/build/airframe/wings/photos/sec20/IMG_5509.html > > http://www.jline.com/log/aviation/build/airframe/wings/photos/sec20/IMG_5510.html > > > The above photos show the bottom inboard wing rib. You can see where > one of the nutplate hole patterns in the skin, lines up right between > a notch in the rib flange. > > On page 20-6, it calls for a K1100-08 here, which matches the hole > pattern pre-punched into the bottom skin, but this will make for an > awkward rivet in the notch without a shim or another type of nutplate. > > Nothing in the archives about this. What am i missing or did i do wrong? > > Jae > 40533 - back to the wings > >


    Message 12


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    Time: 09:24:45 AM PST US
    Subject: RV-10 Door Incidents
    From: "William Curtis" <wcurtis@nerv10.com>
    I always suspected this is why Cirrus hinged their doors forward rather than at the top as a classic gull wing. Hinged at the front an adjar door will tend to be pushed closed by the slipstream, rather than get ripped off by it. William http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ -------- Original Message -------- > > Rick, > > Thanks for sharing this, it is indeed valuable information and shows the potential damage our gull wing doors can cause from a sudden departure in flight. I have/am considering a strap that limits the doors opening to 6 inches or so for a combination of safety, ability to leave the door "cracked" in hot climates while on the ground, and as a strap to grab to shut the door. I'll probably do some experimenting once I get the doors installed. > > I think it's great that our list is considered not only civil enough, but also informative enough to attract pilots and builders from other aircraft ranks. Thanks for contributing to our greater knowledge! > > Michael Sausen > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rtitsworth > Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 2:03 AM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: FW: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incidents > > Tim, etal > > I'm a Lancair builder, but lurk here because of all the good experimental dialog, much of which still applies regardless of the airframe. For those RV'ers taking your door message to heart, we Lancair builder/flyers share the same door importance/fate. FYI, attached are a few personal photos of a Lancair Columbia that had a door open in flight near Indianapolis. > > The slipstream "tore" the left (pilot) door off, after it became unlatched in-flight. The door then struck the top of the right wing - yes, up over the top of the aircraft and down into the wing while in-flight. The damage to the wing skin was significant, into the core, much more than cosmetic, but not catastrophic. Note: that area is the fuel tank on a Lancair. The door then, struck the right Hstab. I'd guess it would be hard to do that much damage with a good full sledge hammer blow (significant). As a result of that impact, the fuselage was cracked under the tail. The longitudinal crack is at the fuselage 1/2 mold joining line (joggle). The circumferential crack(s) are through the outer skin, core, and inner skin. > The entire tail was loose/wobbly to the touch. From seeing it myself, I can't imaging the tail would have stayed on too much longer or in a stiff crosswind landing. The pilot was able to declare an emergency and land, but was "very" lucky. Also keep in mind this was a Columbia which is certified in the utility class and VNE of 235 kts - quite strong - perhaps even more so than either our RV or ES birds. > > Now a door latch annunciator (and checklist) believer, > > Rick Titsworth > Lancair ES, part of the fixed gear fraternity ;-) > 1000+ hrs, Mutli, Com, IFR, land & sea > > p.s. Tim, I'd love to read your N289DT post, but do not have an RV#. > > > -----Original Message----- > Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incidents > > Sorry to not post just all good cheer before a holiday, but a safety message well received should be cheery, right? > > > >


    Message 13


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    Time: 10:01:22 AM PST US
    From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Trutrak AP
    David. EFIS are you using. With the update to .24 it will work great with the Chelton. I recently have been flying with my Grand Rapids as well and the altitude function for climbing and holding works just as good if not better. Scott Schmidt scottmschmidt@yahoo.com On Nov 21, 2007, at 11:20 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote: David, I've got good news, and bad news. The bad news is that yes, that's the way it works. If you want no ALT hold, then you have to hold the ALT button down until you're in the config menu and just set it to not be on. I'm not sure why they didn't make it able to be a wing leveler only, but other than that method, there isn't a way that I've found. There's more bad news... Version 2.20 is not going to be what you'll want to fly with considering you have a good vertically integrated system. 2.20 contains the rounding bug that will cause pitch oscillations. So, perhaps before you get too far along and into that pre-first-flight crunch, you may want to get it up to at least 2.24, which does work well. Now, for the good news... I haven't found that there's really been much for times that I care about the seemingly goofy step of turning the ALT hold off. Once you hook that AP to the EFIS for doing your flights, you'll be able to set altitude preselects on your Chelton, it will climb to altitude, do your descents, both lateral and vertical controlling, heading mode, and pretty much anything you would want. The only time it would be at all handy to have the ALT hold off is if you for some reason really want to hand fly the altitude only, but let the EFIS or AP take care of the lateral steering....which would kind of be strange since you HAVE the functionality to make life easy. Plus, for those few times when you really just want to get the climb going right away, the EFIS makes hand flying so easy that you can just disengage the AP and it's still easy. I know, you probably think the whole situation sucks right now....but just wait until you fly it...it works very well. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive David McNeill wrote: I have have the Digiflite II V2.20. The aircraft is not flying; roll servo harness is in dsub for wing connection. pitch servo harness is connected to the elevator control horn. When testing the controller, I find that the units turns on and properly indicates when receiving the GPS signal. The Problem is that the *ALT Hold* function can not be disengaged without going into setup mode and and turning off the pitch servo altogether. Is something wrong with the harness? the unit? or are these strange results in response to a system only partially connected? TT has updated the software once already and the aircraft has not left the garage. *


    Message 14


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    Time: 10:26:19 AM PST US
    Subject: RV-10 Door Incidents
    From: "Robin Marks" <robin1@mrmoisture.com>
    >>I always suspected this is why Cirrus hinged their doors forward rather than at the top as a classic gull wing. Hinged at the front an adjar door will tend to be pushed closed by the slipstream, rather than get ripped off by it." Yes and no. I have a D-35 Bonanza that had a difficult latching mechanism (doors hinges forward as we all know). Heck it's a 1952 plane designed in the 40's. Between the latch mechanism and the goofy door handle the only door on the plane looked closed but on two (2) occasions the door unlatched in flight. Both times the door unlatched on takeoff. Because the door hinges in the front there was no concern of the door ripping off but there was NO possibility of closing the door in flight either. The slipstream pulled the door open. I know, I was in the PAX seat. Great idea to include "Seatbelts Secure" in the checklist! It took all my strength to hold the door in MOST OF THE WAY while we went around and landed. If I released the tension the door would open a bit more but not much more. So I was fighting to hold the door 2-3" closed vs. where it would have naturally been had I applied very little pressure to the door handle. Also note holding the door like that is very awkward with little leverage. After the second time the door popped we completely removed & serviced the door and replaced the door latching mechanism. All good after that. On my Turbo Lance II (AKA Land Lance) our rear baggage door once was not fully closed. Again a misaligned mechanism. The misalignment was minimal but about 8 minutes after takeoff we heard a buzzing sound. The sound was the battery style home CO sensor I had placed in the plane. We could hear it over the engine/Comm sounds. I was on a short flight (14 minutes) with a couple of friends to attend a BBQ so I nosed down, throttled back and coasted into PRB. Again we completely removed & serviced the door and replaced all the door latching mechanism. As most know the Turbo Lance II is a long plane with the exhaust on the right side and the baggage door on the rear left side. One might think that the CO might dissipate in the slipstream but there was enough to set off my detector. Truly a silent killer. My -10 will include a remote CO detector that will alarm on the G900X. Photos of both planes attached. Robin


    Message 15


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    Time: 10:28:23 AM PST US
    From: "rtitsworth" <rtitsworth@mindspring.com>
    Subject: RV-10 Door Incidents
    Some ES guys have built such a strap. One thought/caution is to build it strong. My understanding (second hand), is that the Columbia pilot had the strap in hand at the time of his door incident, and the strap was tore out of the door (unconfirmed). The simple math might be something like 0.05 psi differential (conservative est) times the size of the door (~1,000 sqin) 50 lbs. The actual force could be much more (> couple hundred lbs??). -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen) Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 11:43 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incidents Rick, ... I have/am considering a strap that limits the doors opening to 6 inches or so...


    Message 16


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    Time: 11:04:51 AM PST US
    From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
    Subject: Re: RV-10 Door Incidents
    That's what I was thinking too...unless the strap kept it from opening more than 1 inch or so, and the strap was extremely tough AND pulled the door in a forward direction, I don't think there's much you could do to keep the door on. The force would just be too great. The thing is, if that pin isn't in the proper place on the rear of the door, it's going to torque and twist backwards and rip the hinges anyway. I think, but am not positive, we've already seen hinges ripped in half, so that will give an indication of the force. The only real worthy protection I believe will be making sure the pins are both latched fully. Once you have that, I think it would take a real breakage to have a problem. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive rtitsworth wrote: > > Some ES guys have built such a strap. One thought/caution is to build it > strong. My understanding (second hand), is that the Columbia pilot had the > strap in hand at the time of his door incident, and the strap was tore out > of the door (unconfirmed). The simple math might be something like 0.05 psi > differential (conservative est) times the size of the door (~1,000 sqin) > 50 lbs. The actual force could be much more (> couple hundred lbs??). > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder > (Michael Sausen) > Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 11:43 AM > Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incidents > > Rick, > ... I have/am considering a strap that limits the doors opening to 6 inches > or so... > >


    Message 17


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    Time: 01:11:00 PM PST US
    From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: RV-10 Door Incidents
    Does anyone know of a door coming off that was sure it was latched on takeoff? The system that Vans has developed works great. It is very sensitive and my light on my dash is off only when the latches are locked. My only concern would be fatigue on the doors where they attach to the hinges on the top. Scott Schmidt scottmschmidt@yahoo.com On Nov 22, 2007, at 12:04 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote: That's what I was thinking too...unless the strap kept it from opening more than 1 inch or so, and the strap was extremely tough AND pulled the door in a forward direction, I don't think there's much you could do to keep the door on. The force would just be too great. The thing is, if that pin isn't in the proper place on the rear of the door, it's going to torque and twist backwards and rip the hinges anyway. I think, but am not positive, we've already seen hinges ripped in half, so that will give an indication of the force. The only real worthy protection I believe will be making sure the pins are both latched fully. Once you have that, I think it would take a real breakage to have a problem. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive rtitsworth wrote: Some ES guys have built such a strap. One thought/caution is to build it strong. My understanding (second hand), is that the Columbia pilot had the strap in hand at the time of his door incident, and the strap was tore out of the door (unconfirmed). The simple math might be something like 0.05 psi differential (conservative est) times the size of the door (~1,000 sqin) 50 lbs. The actual force could be much more (> couple hundred lbs??). -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen) Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 11:43 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incidents Rick, ... I have/am considering a strap that limits the doors opening to 6 inches or so...


    Message 18


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    Time: 01:33:01 PM PST US
    From: Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com>
    Subject: Re: RV-10 Door Incidents
    Just make sure the lock pin is fully in place on the inner tube that connects to the button on the door latch. If it is not, and your knee or something hits the handle a little, it can come open. Once it starts, the pressure on the door makes it want to continue going open until it releases. Fortunately, when that happened to me I was able to grab the door and close it (it wasn't too hard to close, but without a handle on the back of the door as in the attached picture it would have been impossible) before any damage was done to it. I would say the first thing to do if that happens would be to get off the power (unless you are on takeoff, maybe) and slow down. I know of two cases where the door came open and didn't come off, one of which was on takeoff and one of the hinges broke. Even with the hinge broken, the pins held the door closed during flight. do not archive Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 On Nov 22, 2007, at 4:10 PM, Scott Schmidt wrote: > > > > Does anyone know of a door coming off that was sure it was latched > on takeoff? > > The system that Vans has developed works great. It is very sensitive > and my light on my dash is off only when the latches are locked. My > only concern would be fatigue on the doors where they attach to the > hinges on the top. > > Scott Schmidt > scottmschmidt@yahoo.com > > On Nov 22, 2007, at 12:04 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote: > > > That's what I was thinking too...unless the strap kept it from opening > more than 1 inch or so, and the strap was extremely tough AND pulled > the > door in a forward direction, I don't think there's much you could do > to keep the door on. The force would just be too great. The thing > is, if that pin isn't in the proper place on the rear of the door, > it's going to torque and twist backwards and rip the hinges anyway. > I think, but am not positive, we've already seen hinges ripped in > half, > so that will give an indication of the force. The only real worthy > protection I believe will be making sure the pins are both latched > fully. Once you have that, I think it would take a real breakage > to have a problem. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > do not archive > > > rtitsworth wrote: > > > Some ES guys have built such a strap. One thought/caution is to > build it > strong. My understanding (second hand), is that the Columbia pilot > had the > strap in hand at the time of his door incident, and the strap was > tore out > of the door (unconfirmed). The simple math might be something like > 0.05 psi > differential (conservative est) times the size of the door (~1,000 > sqin) > 50 lbs. The actual force could be much more (> couple hundred lbs??). > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder > (Michael Sausen) > Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 11:43 AM > Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incidents > Rick, > ... I have/am considering a strap that limits the doors opening to 6 > inches > or so... > >


    Message 19


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    Time: 02:23:07 PM PST US
    Subject: Manifold Pressure
    From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann@baesystems.com>
    G'day all, Happy thanksgiving to the guys across the pond! I know this has been discussed in the past, but listers have been using 'Do Not Arch. . . ' so diligently that the archive trail is pretty fragmented (ie useless). Where does one find an adapter for the 1/8" tube (into the GRT EFIS) to the 3/32" restrictor at the manifold pressure bulkhead fitting?? Cheers, Ron -187 finishing "Warning: The information contained in this email and any attached files is confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free, however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to your computer."


    Message 20


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    Time: 02:52:32 PM PST US
    From: "Rene Felker" <rene@felker.com>
    Subject: Manifold Pressure
    I just went down to the local auto parts store (aviation department of course) and got a box of air line fittings. It had various sizes and one of them worked. Sorry I don't have brand or real sizes... Rene' Felker N423CF 40322 801-721-6080 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 3:21 PM Subject: RV10-List: Manifold Pressure G'day all, Happy thanksgiving to the guys across the pond! I know this has been discussed in the past, but listers have been using 'Do Not Arch. . . ' so diligently that the archive trail is pretty fragmented (ie useless). Where does one find an adapter for the 1/8" tube (into the GRT EFIS) to the 3/32" restrictor at the manifold pressure bulkhead fitting?? Cheers, Ron -187 finishing "Warning: The information contained in this email and any attached files is confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free, however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to your computer."


    Message 21


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    Time: 04:53:55 PM PST US
    Subject: Fine Wire Spark Plug Offer
    From: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr@sprint.com>
    Aircraft Spruce is also offering a FREE $75 Aircraft Spruce Gift Card with the purchase of one case (12) Autolite XL Fine Wire spark plugs. The Unison Autolite XL Fine Wire spark plugs are priced well below competitor's plugs, plus you receive the $75 Gift Card which can be used on your next order with Aircraft Spruce. Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Co. 1-877-4SPRUCE www.aircraftspruce.com


    Message 22


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    Time: 08:30:47 PM PST US
    From: Les Kearney <kearney@shaw.ca>
    Subject: RV-10 Door Incidents
    Hmmm This discussion of inadvertent door openings in flight is quite interesting. In my PA28, I have had the door pop open a couple or four times (usually because I didn't latch it properly and once because an examiner leaned on the handle when I was doing an instrument ride. IN a PA28, this is a pretty benign event, the door only opens a few inches and then stays put. It is closable in flight - a technique I have mastered. It is the forward hinges on a PA28 that make this a non event. I was wondering if a latch on the forward edge of the door, engaged when the door is locked would give the same sort of protection to the -10 gull wing doors. I must admit the thought of shedding a door at 10k because a passenger accidentally operated the door mechanism is not a pleasant one. It would seem that the key to keeping the door in place would be to prevent the forward edge entering the slipstream and being strippedd away from the fuselage. Alternatively, is there a simple way to prevent the door mechanism from being accidentally operated while in flight? Inquiring minds need to know. Les Kearney #40643 - still singing the section 29 blues -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: November-22-07 12:04 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incidents That's what I was thinking too...unless the strap kept it from opening more than 1 inch or so, and the strap was extremely tough AND pulled the door in a forward direction, I don't think there's much you could do to keep the door on. The force would just be too great. The thing is, if that pin isn't in the proper place on the rear of the door, it's going to torque and twist backwards and rip the hinges anyway. I think, but am not positive, we've already seen hinges ripped in half, so that will give an indication of the force. The only real worthy protection I believe will be making sure the pins are both latched fully. Once you have that, I think it would take a real breakage to have a problem. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive rtitsworth wrote: > > Some ES guys have built such a strap. One thought/caution is to build it > strong. My understanding (second hand), is that the Columbia pilot had the > strap in hand at the time of his door incident, and the strap was tore out > of the door (unconfirmed). The simple math might be something like 0.05 psi > differential (conservative est) times the size of the door (~1,000 sqin) > 50 lbs. The actual force could be much more (> couple hundred lbs??). > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder > (Michael Sausen) > Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 11:43 AM > Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incidents > > Rick, > ... I have/am considering a strap that limits the doors opening to 6 inches > or so... > >


    Message 23


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    Time: 09:13:10 PM PST US
    From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
    Subject: Re: RV-10 Door Incidents
    IF....IF you ensure that the roll pin in the mechanism fits into the slot, then there is no issue at all. The lock mechanism is very secure on the standard kit. It's kind of like the Air Force Symbol....a circle with a bar through it. When the roll pin of the thing is rotated so it drops into that slot, it is actually tough to get it to release. On my doors, I have to tell the passenger that they may have to push down slightly on the door lever while pushing the thumb button or the rotational pressure will not let it release. It would be almost impossible to release it in flight without doing something pretty abnormal. So, it really isn't something to get all worked up a bit. Unless someone wants to redesign their doors with forward hinges, just resign yourself to the fact that you'll definitely want to make sure they're latched and use the warning mechanism. Also, as a sideline comment, I'm not sure but I believe one of the flush latch mechanisms was lacking the ability to have a detent for it to lock into like that, which is the reason some have stated for NOT using at least that particular 3rd party latch set. It may be that things can be improved somehow, but if you're going that route it's just something that you may want to watch for. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Les Kearney wrote: > > Hmmm > > This discussion of inadvertent door openings in flight is quite interesting. > In my PA28, I have had the door pop open a couple or four times (usually > because I didn't latch it properly and once because an examiner leaned on > the handle when I was doing an instrument ride. > > IN a PA28, this is a pretty benign event, the door only opens a few inches > and then stays put. It is closable in flight - a technique I have mastered. > > It is the forward hinges on a PA28 that make this a non event. > > I was wondering if a latch on the forward edge of the door, engaged when the > door is locked would give the same sort of protection to the -10 gull wing > doors. I must admit the thought of shedding a door at 10k because a > passenger accidentally operated the door mechanism is not a pleasant one. It > would seem that the key to keeping the door in place would be to prevent the > forward edge entering the slipstream and being strippedd away from the > fuselage. > > Alternatively, is there a simple way to prevent the door mechanism from > being accidentally operated while in flight? > > Inquiring minds need to know. > > Les Kearney > #40643 - still singing the section 29 blues > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson > Sent: November-22-07 12:04 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incidents > > > That's what I was thinking too...unless the strap kept it from opening > more than 1 inch or so, and the strap was extremely tough AND pulled the > door in a forward direction, I don't think there's much you could do > to keep the door on. The force would just be too great. The thing > is, if that pin isn't in the proper place on the rear of the door, > it's going to torque and twist backwards and rip the hinges anyway. > I think, but am not positive, we've already seen hinges ripped in half, > so that will give an indication of the force. The only real worthy > protection I believe will be making sure the pins are both latched > fully. Once you have that, I think it would take a real breakage > to have a problem. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > do not archive > > > rtitsworth wrote: >> >> Some ES guys have built such a strap. One thought/caution is to build it >> strong. My understanding (second hand), is that the Columbia pilot had > the >> strap in hand at the time of his door incident, and the strap was tore out >> of the door (unconfirmed). The simple math might be something like 0.05 > psi >> differential (conservative est) times the size of the door (~1,000 sqin) >> 50 lbs. The actual force could be much more (> couple hundred lbs??). >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder >> (Michael Sausen) >> Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 11:43 AM >> Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incidents >> >> Rick, >> ... I have/am considering a strap that limits the doors opening to 6 > inches >> or so... >> >> > > > > > > > > >


    Message 24


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    Time: 09:35:43 PM PST US
    From: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Manifold Pressure Fitting
    Ron, there was a fitting in the Vans kit with a 1/8 hose end on it for a manifold fitting but I also needed a manifold pressure source for my P-Mag so I just modified a 90 degree bulkhead fitting to do both. I took two short 3/16 bolts, cut the heads off, and used a 40(?) drill in a drill press to go right through the bolt to make it hollow. Then I just drilled the bulkhead fitting and threaded it for the 3/16 bolts and put a little JB Weld on it to be sure. Used regular manifold line (#6 I think) to right rear cylinder. Be sure to put the restrictor in. Total time was about 20 minutes as I remember it. Pictures should tell the story. Hope this helps. Bill S 7a finishing finishing finishing ,...... _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 4:21 PM Subject: RV10-List: Manifold Pressure G'day all, Happy thanksgiving to the guys across the pond! I know this has been discussed in the past, but listers have been using 'Do Not Arch. . . ' so diligently that the archive trail is pretty fragmented (ie useless). Where does one find an adapter for the 1/8" tube (into the GRT EFIS) to the 3/32" restrictor at the manifold pressure bulkhead fitting?? Cheers, Ron -187 finishing "Warning: The information contained in this email and any attached files is confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free, however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to your computer."




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