Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:23 AM - What Are You Thankful For...? (Matt Dralle)
1. 12:43 AM - FW: RV-10 Door Incidents (rtitsworth)
2. 05:26 AM - Re: RV-10 Total Flight Time - Submit yours (Tim Olson)
3. 05:33 AM - Re: RV-10 Total Flight Time - Submit yours (tintopranch)
4. 05:54 AM - Re: Trutrak AP (Perry Casson - Home)
5. 06:08 AM - Re: RV-10 Total Flight Time - Submit yours (JSMcGrew@aol.com)
6. 06:21 AM - Re: Trutrak AP (Tim Olson)
7. 06:31 AM - Re: RV-10 Total Flight Time - Submit yoursRV-10 Total Flight Time - Submit yours (David C. Watterson)
8. 06:59 AM - Re: RV-10 Total Flight Time - Submit yoursRV-10 Total Flight Time - Submit yours (Don Fanning)
9. 08:33 AM - pg 20-6 inboard bottom wing skin nutplate (Jae Chang)
10. 08:43 AM - Re: RV-10 Door Incidents (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
11. 08:50 AM - Re: pg 20-6 inboard bottom wing skin nutplate (James Hein)
12. 09:24 AM - Re: RV-10 Door Incidents (William Curtis)
13. 10:01 AM - Re: Trutrak AP (Scott Schmidt)
14. 10:26 AM - Re: RV-10 Door Incidents (Robin Marks)
15. 10:28 AM - Re: RV-10 Door Incidents (rtitsworth)
16. 11:04 AM - Re: RV-10 Door Incidents (Tim Olson)
17. 01:11 PM - Re: RV-10 Door Incidents (Scott Schmidt)
18. 01:33 PM - Re: RV-10 Door Incidents (Jesse Saint)
19. 02:23 PM - Manifold Pressure (McGANN, Ron)
20. 02:52 PM - Re: Manifold Pressure (Rene Felker)
21. 04:53 PM - Fine Wire Spark Plug Offer (Doerr, Ray R [NTK])
22. 08:30 PM - Re: RV-10 Door Incidents (Les Kearney)
23. 09:13 PM - Re: RV-10 Door Incidents (Tim Olson)
24. 09:35 PM - Re: Manifold Pressure Fitting (Bill Schlatterer)
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Subject: | What Are You Thankful For...? |
Dear Listers,
Here in the United States, Thursday is our National day of Thanksgiving. Many
of us will be traveling to be with our families and friends to share in generous
feasts of plenty and giving thanks for many blessings that have been bestowed
upon us.
Many Listers have expressed over the last couple of weeks how thankful they are
for the Email Lists and Forums here on the Matronics servers and for all of the
assistance and comradery they have experienced being a part of the Lists.
One of my favorite kind of comments is when write to me and says something like,
"Its the first thing I do in the morning while I'm having my morning coffee!".
That's a wonderful tribute to the purpose and function of these Lists. Its
always great to hear I'm not the only one that jumps out of bed each morning
to check my List email!!
Won't you take a minute today and show your appreciation for these Lists and for
their continued operation and upgrade?
The List Contribution Site is:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you in advance for your kind consideration,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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Subject: | RV-10 Door Incidents |
Tim, etal
I'm a Lancair builder, but lurk here because of all the good experimental
dialog, much of which still applies regardless of the airframe. For those
RV'ers taking your door message to heart, we Lancair builder/flyers share
the same door importance/fate. FYI, attached are a few personal photos of a
Lancair Columbia that had a door open in flight near Indianapolis.
The slipstream "tore" the left (pilot) door off, after it became unlatched
in-flight. The door then struck the top of the right wing - yes, up over
the top of the aircraft and down into the wing while in-flight. The damage
to the wing skin was significant, into the core, much more than cosmetic,
but not catastrophic. Note: that area is the fuel tank on a Lancair. The
door then, struck the right Hstab. I'd guess it would be hard to do that
much damage with a good full sledge hammer blow (significant). As a result
of that impact, the fuselage was cracked under the tail. The longitudinal
crack is at the fuselage 1/2 mold joining line (joggle). The
circumferential crack(s) are through the outer skin, core, and inner skin.
The entire tail was loose/wobbly to the touch. From seeing it myself, I
can't imaging the tail would have stayed on too much longer or in a stiff
crosswind landing. The pilot was able to declare an emergency and land, but
was "very" lucky. Also keep in mind this was a Columbia which is certified
in the utility class and VNE of 235 kts - quite strong - perhaps even more
so than either our RV or ES birds.
Now a door latch annunciator (and checklist) believer,
Rick Titsworth
Lancair ES, part of the fixed gear fraternity ;-)
1000+ hrs, Mutli, Com, IFR, land & sea
p.s. Tim, I'd love to read your N289DT post, but do not have an RV#.
-----Original Message-----
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incidents
Sorry to not post just all good cheer before a holiday, but
a safety message well received should be cheery, right?
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: RV-10 Total Flight Time - Submit yours |
Just re-cleaning the thread....
I'd like to kind of get a quick informal survey for a couple
days and see if we can find out what kind of hours we're
gathering as a fleet. If you have a flying RV-10, reply to this
post with your N-number and total hours and lets see what kind of
running total we can come up with in the next couple days. From there,
we can expand on it and make some wild assumptions about the fleet
based on about 110-115 flying. No major purpose for this, but it
seemed like a cool thing to do. If you know of other RV-10's that
may not post to the list, and want to post their numbers, go ahead.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
************************************
**** RV-10 total flying hours ****
**** (as of approx. 11/22-23/07 ****
************************************
TOTAL SO FAR: 2851 (16 of 110+)
** Wow, it looks like the fleet hours for the -10 are probably
well over 10,000 if we continue anywhere near this rate**
Hours N-Number
----- --------
310 N104CD
580 N64VC
155 K203JJ
85 N372RV
175 N728DD
20 ZK-RVT
86 N331DJ
290 N104XP
20 C-FMHP
340 N519RV
160 N410MR
85 N602WT
225 N610RV
70 C-FXCS
65 N184JM
185 N710RV
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: RV-10 Total Flight Time - Submit yours |
95 611TT
--------
MARK SUTHERLAND
RV-10 40292
Flying since June 07
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147904#147904
Message 4
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Pretty darn sure pressing "Alt" a 2nd time would turn off Alt Hold on my unit.
Not sure what version
I'm running but will check later today.
Perry
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
Of David McNeill
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 11:29 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Trutrak AP
I have have the Digiflite II V2.20. The aircraft is not flying; roll servo harness
is in dsub for
wing connection. pitch servo harness is connected to the elevator control horn.
When testing the
controller, I find that the units turns on and properly indicates when receiving
the GPS signal. The
Problem is that the ALT Hold function can not be disengaged without going into
setup mode and and
turning off the pitch servo altogether. Is something wrong with the harness? the
unit? or are these
strange results in response to a system only partially connected? TT has updated
the software once
already and the aircraft has not left the garage.
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: RV-10 Total Flight Time - Submit yours |
In a message dated 11/22/2007 8:28:10 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Tim@MyRV10.com writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Just re-cleaning the thread....
I'd like to kind of get a quick informal survey for a couple
days and see if we can find out what kind of hours we're
gathering as a fleet. If you have a flying RV-10, reply to this
post with your N-number and total hours and lets see what kind of
running total we can come up with in the next couple days. From there,
we can expand on it and make some wild assumptions about the fleet
based on about 110-115 flying. No major purpose for this, but it
seemed like a cool thing to do. If you know of other RV-10's that
may not post to the list, and want to post their numbers, go ahead.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
************************************
**** RV-10 total flying hours ****
**** (as of approx. 11/22-23/07 ****
************************************
TOTAL SO FAR: 2851 (16 of 110+)
** Wow, it looks like the fleet hours for the -10 are probably
well over 10,000 if we continue anywhere near this rate**
Hours N-Number
----- --------
310 N104CD
580 N64VC
155 K203JJ
85 N372RV
175 N728DD
20 ZK-RVT
86 N331DJ
290 N104XP
20 C-FMHP
340 N519RV
160 N410MR
85 N602WT
225 N610RV
70 C-FXCS
65 N184JM
185 N710RV
100 N312JE
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
Message 6
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|
Yeah, now David sent me a manual to skim over and that's what
it said in the manual. But, what I think we're seeing here is
the difference in variation between TruTrak Digiflight II models.
I/we have the VSGV model, which has both lateral and vertical
hold and heading select, climb/descent speed select, and GPSS/GPSV
modes. On that model, with GPSV, the AP is always in a mode with 2 axis
being controlled. If you tap the ALT button it toggles between GPSV
and HOLD (or vertical command) modes. There is no way out except
to disable the servo. It seems like a big limitation but in
practice it isn't.
Now, if you have a model like the VSG, or something lesser than
VSGV, then I would bet that this is why the discrepancy because
for those, when you tap ALT, it would not have a GPSV mode to
select. So that kind of explains why yours would be one way and
his/ours would be another. The only people who would benefit
from the VSGV are people who have an EFIS or 480 type system
that can drive the AP vertically...but that's kind of a huge
benefit.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Perry Casson - Home wrote:
> Pretty darn sure pressing Alt a 2^nd time would turn off Alt Hold on
> my unit. Not sure what version Im running but will check later today.
>
>
>
> Perry
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *David McNeill
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 21, 2007 11:29 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Trutrak AP
>
>
>
> I have have the Digiflite II V2.20. The aircraft is not flying; roll
> servo harness is in dsub for wing connection. pitch servo harness is
> connected to the elevator control horn. When testing the controller, I
> find that the units turns on and properly indicates when receiving the
> GPS signal. The Problem is that the **ALT Hold** function can not be
> disengaged without going into setup mode and and turning off the pitch
> servo altogether. Is something wrong with the harness? the unit? or are
> these strange results in response to a system only partially
> connected? TT has updated the software once already and the aircraft has
> not left the garage.
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> * *
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: RV-10 Total Flight Time - Submit yoursRV-10 Total Flight |
Time - Submit yours
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:25 AM
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Total Flight Time - Submit yours
I'd like to kind of get a quick informal survey for a couple
days and see if we can find out what kind of hours we're
gathering as a fleet. If you have a flying RV-10, take this
post, add your N-number and total hours to the bottom of the list,
(**Round it to the nearest 5) and TRIM OUT ALL THE JUNK
THAT GETS ADDED BELOW IT (We'll try to keep it a clean
and lean email), and lets see what kind of running total
we can come up with in the next couple days. From there,
we can expand on it and make some wild assumptions about the fleet
based on about 110-115 flying. No major purpose for this, but it
seemed like a cool thing to do. If you know of other RV-10's that
may not post to the list, and want to post their numbers, go ahead.
I'll add what I know was Vic's before he sold it.
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
************************************
**** RV-10 total flying hours ****
**** (as of approx. 11/22-23/07 ****
************************************
310 N104CD
580 N64VC
225 N610RV
291 N2733K
4:28 PM
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: RV-10 Total Flight Time - Submit yoursRV-10 Total Flight |
Time - Submit yours
I'm Don Fanning, owner of RV10, N415EC, and have flown 194 hrs since new.
Don
On Nov 22, 2007 9:30 AM, David C. Watterson <dcw@dddirectories.com> wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:25 AM
> Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Total Flight Time - Submit yours
>
>
> I'd like to kind of get a quick informal survey for a couple
> days and see if we can find out what kind of hours we're
> gathering as a fleet. If you have a flying RV-10, take this
> post, add your N-number and total hours to the bottom of the list,
> (**Round it to the nearest 5) and TRIM OUT ALL THE JUNK
> THAT GETS ADDED BELOW IT (We'll try to keep it a clean
> and lean email), and lets see what kind of running total
> we can come up with in the next couple days. From there,
> we can expand on it and make some wild assumptions about the fleet
> based on about 110-115 flying. No major purpose for this, but it
> seemed like a cool thing to do. If you know of other RV-10's that
> may not post to the list, and want to post their numbers, go ahead.
> I'll add what I know was Vic's before he sold it.
>
> --
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>
>
> ************************************
> **** RV-10 total flying hours ****
> **** (as of approx. 11/22-23/07 ****
> ************************************
>
> 310 N104CD
> 580 N64VC
> 225 N610RV
> 291 N2733K
>
>
> 4:28 PM
>
>
--
Don
Liberty University
Of: 434-592-4127
Cel: 434-944-5347
email: drdonfa@gmail.com
Skype: drdonfanning
MSN Messenger: drdonfa
Web: www.luglobal.com
Message 9
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Subject: | pg 20-6 inboard bottom wing skin nutplate |
Happy thanksgiving! i know it's a holiday, because i always end up with
a problem on the start of a holiday.
http://www.jline.com/log/aviation/build/airframe/wings/photos/sec20/IMG_5509.html
http://www.jline.com/log/aviation/build/airframe/wings/photos/sec20/IMG_5510.html
The above photos show the bottom inboard wing rib. You can see where one
of the nutplate hole patterns in the skin, lines up right between a
notch in the rib flange.
On page 20-6, it calls for a K1100-08 here, which matches the hole
pattern pre-punched into the bottom skin, but this will make for an
awkward rivet in the notch without a shim or another type of nutplate.
Nothing in the archives about this. What am i missing or did i do wrong?
Jae
40533 - back to the wings
Message 10
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Subject: | RV-10 Door Incidents |
Rick,
Thanks for sharing this, it is indeed valuable information and shows the potential
damage our gull wing doors can cause from a sudden departure in flight.
I have/am considering a strap that limits the doors opening to 6 inches or so
for a combination of safety, ability to leave the door "cracked" in hot climates
while on the ground, and as a strap to grab to shut the door. I'll probably
do some experimenting once I get the doors installed.
I think it's great that our list is considered not only civil enough, but also
informative enough to attract pilots and builders from other aircraft ranks.
Thanks for contributing to our greater knowledge!
Michael Sausen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rtitsworth
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 2:03 AM
Subject: FW: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incidents
Tim, etal
I'm a Lancair builder, but lurk here because of all the good experimental dialog,
much of which still applies regardless of the airframe. For those RV'ers taking
your door message to heart, we Lancair builder/flyers share the same door
importance/fate. FYI, attached are a few personal photos of a Lancair Columbia
that had a door open in flight near Indianapolis.
The slipstream "tore" the left (pilot) door off, after it became unlatched in-flight.
The door then struck the top of the right wing - yes, up over the top
of the aircraft and down into the wing while in-flight. The damage to the wing
skin was significant, into the core, much more than cosmetic, but not catastrophic.
Note: that area is the fuel tank on a Lancair. The door then, struck
the right Hstab. I'd guess it would be hard to do that much damage with a good
full sledge hammer blow (significant). As a result of that impact, the fuselage
was cracked under the tail. The longitudinal crack is at the fuselage 1/2
mold joining line (joggle). The circumferential crack(s) are through the outer
skin, core, and inner skin.
The entire tail was loose/wobbly to the touch. From seeing it myself, I can't
imaging the tail would have stayed on too much longer or in a stiff crosswind
landing. The pilot was able to declare an emergency and land, but was "very"
lucky. Also keep in mind this was a Columbia which is certified in the utility
class and VNE of 235 kts - quite strong - perhaps even more so than either our
RV or ES birds.
Now a door latch annunciator (and checklist) believer,
Rick Titsworth
Lancair ES, part of the fixed gear fraternity ;-)
1000+ hrs, Mutli, Com, IFR, land & sea
p.s. Tim, I'd love to read your N289DT post, but do not have an RV#.
-----Original Message-----
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incidents
Sorry to not post just all good cheer before a holiday, but a safety message well
received should be cheery, right?
Message 11
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|
Subject: | Re: pg 20-6 inboard bottom wing skin nutplate |
Here's a photo of mine; I was told to just rivet it (the rivet will
expand slightly):
-Jim 40384
Jae Chang wrote:
>
> Happy thanksgiving! i know it's a holiday, because i always end up
> with a problem on the start of a holiday.
>
> http://www.jline.com/log/aviation/build/airframe/wings/photos/sec20/IMG_5509.html
>
> http://www.jline.com/log/aviation/build/airframe/wings/photos/sec20/IMG_5510.html
>
>
> The above photos show the bottom inboard wing rib. You can see where
> one of the nutplate hole patterns in the skin, lines up right between
> a notch in the rib flange.
>
> On page 20-6, it calls for a K1100-08 here, which matches the hole
> pattern pre-punched into the bottom skin, but this will make for an
> awkward rivet in the notch without a shim or another type of nutplate.
>
> Nothing in the archives about this. What am i missing or did i do wrong?
>
> Jae
> 40533 - back to the wings
>
>
Message 12
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Subject: | RV-10 Door Incidents |
I always suspected this is why Cirrus hinged their doors forward rather than at
the top as a classic gull wing. Hinged at the front an adjar door will tend
to be pushed closed by the slipstream, rather than get ripped off by it.
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
-------- Original Message --------
>
> Rick,
>
> Thanks for sharing this, it is indeed valuable information and shows the potential
damage our gull wing doors can cause from a sudden departure in flight.
I have/am considering a strap that limits the doors opening to 6 inches or
so for a combination of safety, ability to leave the door "cracked" in hot climates
while on the ground, and as a strap to grab to shut the door. I'll probably
do some experimenting once I get the doors installed.
>
> I think it's great that our list is considered not only civil enough, but also
informative enough to attract pilots and builders from other aircraft ranks.
Thanks for contributing to our greater knowledge!
>
> Michael Sausen
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rtitsworth
> Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 2:03 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: FW: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incidents
>
> Tim, etal
>
> I'm a Lancair builder, but lurk here because of all the good experimental dialog,
much of which still applies regardless of the airframe. For those RV'ers
taking your door message to heart, we Lancair builder/flyers share the same door
importance/fate. FYI, attached are a few personal photos of a Lancair Columbia
that had a door open in flight near Indianapolis.
>
> The slipstream "tore" the left (pilot) door off, after it became unlatched in-flight.
The door then struck the top of the right wing - yes, up over the top
of the aircraft and down into the wing while in-flight. The damage to the wing
skin was significant, into the core, much more than cosmetic, but not catastrophic.
Note: that area is the fuel tank on a Lancair. The door then, struck
the right Hstab. I'd guess it would be hard to do that much damage with a
good full sledge hammer blow (significant). As a result of that impact, the fuselage
was cracked under the tail. The longitudinal crack is at the fuselage
1/2 mold joining line (joggle). The circumferential crack(s) are through the
outer skin, core, and inner skin.
> The entire tail was loose/wobbly to the touch. From seeing it myself, I can't
imaging the tail would have stayed on too much longer or in a stiff crosswind
landing. The pilot was able to declare an emergency and land, but was "very"
lucky. Also keep in mind this was a Columbia which is certified in the utility
class and VNE of 235 kts - quite strong - perhaps even more so than either
our RV or ES birds.
>
> Now a door latch annunciator (and checklist) believer,
>
> Rick Titsworth
> Lancair ES, part of the fixed gear fraternity ;-)
> 1000+ hrs, Mutli, Com, IFR, land & sea
>
> p.s. Tim, I'd love to read your N289DT post, but do not have an RV#.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incidents
>
> Sorry to not post just all good cheer before a holiday, but a safety message
well received should be cheery, right?
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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|
David. EFIS are you using. With the update to .24 it will work great with the Chelton.
I recently have been flying with my Grand Rapids as well and the altitude
function for climbing and holding works just as good if not better.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
On Nov 21, 2007, at 11:20 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
David,
I've got good news, and bad news. The bad news is that yes, that's
the way it works. If you want no ALT hold, then you have to
hold the ALT button down until you're in the config menu
and just set it to not be on. I'm not sure why they
didn't make it able to be a wing leveler only, but other than
that method, there isn't a way that I've found.
There's more bad news... Version 2.20 is not going to be what
you'll want to fly with considering you have a good vertically
integrated system. 2.20 contains the rounding bug that will
cause pitch oscillations. So, perhaps before you get too far
along and into that pre-first-flight crunch, you may want to
get it up to at least 2.24, which does work well.
Now, for the good news... I haven't found that there's really
been much for times that I care about the seemingly goofy
step of turning the ALT hold off. Once you hook that AP to
the EFIS for doing your flights, you'll be able to set
altitude preselects on your Chelton, it will climb to altitude,
do your descents, both lateral and vertical controlling, heading
mode, and pretty much anything you would want. The only time
it would be at all handy to have the ALT hold off is if you
for some reason really want to hand fly the altitude only, but
let the EFIS or AP take care of the lateral steering....which
would kind of be strange since you HAVE the functionality to
make life easy. Plus, for those few times when you really
just want to get the climb going right away, the EFIS makes
hand flying so easy that you can just disengage the AP and
it's still easy. I know, you probably think the whole
situation sucks right now....but just wait until you fly
it...it works very well.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
David McNeill wrote:
I have have the Digiflite II V2.20. The aircraft is not flying; roll servo harness
is in dsub for wing connection. pitch servo harness is connected to the elevator
control horn. When testing the controller, I find that the units turns
on and properly indicates when receiving the GPS signal. The Problem is that the
*ALT Hold* function can not be disengaged without going into setup mode and
and turning off the pitch servo altogether. Is something wrong with the harness?
the unit? or are these strange results in response to a system only partially
connected? TT has updated the software once already and the aircraft has not
left the garage.
*
Message 14
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Subject: | RV-10 Door Incidents |
>>I always suspected this is why Cirrus hinged their doors forward
rather than at the top as a classic gull wing. Hinged at the front an
adjar door will tend to be pushed closed by the slipstream, rather than
get ripped off by it."
Yes and no. I have a D-35 Bonanza that had a difficult latching
mechanism (doors hinges forward as we all know). Heck it's a 1952 plane
designed in the 40's. Between the latch mechanism and the goofy door
handle the only door on the plane looked closed but on two (2) occasions
the door unlatched in flight. Both times the door unlatched on takeoff.
Because the door hinges in the front there was no concern of the door
ripping off but there was NO possibility of closing the door in flight
either. The slipstream pulled the door open. I know, I was in the PAX
seat. Great idea to include "Seatbelts Secure" in the checklist! It took
all my strength to hold the door in MOST OF THE WAY while we went around
and landed. If I released the tension the door would open a bit more but
not much more. So I was fighting to hold the door 2-3" closed vs. where
it would have naturally been had I applied very little pressure to the
door handle. Also note holding the door like that is very awkward with
little leverage. After the second time the door popped we completely
removed & serviced the door and replaced the door latching mechanism.
All good after that.
On my Turbo Lance II (AKA Land Lance) our rear baggage door once was not
fully closed. Again a misaligned mechanism. The misalignment was minimal
but about 8 minutes after takeoff we heard a buzzing sound. The sound
was the battery style home CO sensor I had placed in the plane. We could
hear it over the engine/Comm sounds. I was on a short flight (14
minutes) with a couple of friends to attend a BBQ so I nosed down,
throttled back and coasted into PRB. Again we completely removed &
serviced the door and replaced all the door latching mechanism. As most
know the Turbo Lance II is a long plane with the exhaust on the right
side and the baggage door on the rear left side. One might think that
the CO might dissipate in the slipstream but there was enough to set off
my detector. Truly a silent killer. My -10 will include a remote CO
detector that will alarm on the G900X.
Photos of both planes attached.
Robin
Message 15
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Subject: | RV-10 Door Incidents |
Some ES guys have built such a strap. One thought/caution is to build it
strong. My understanding (second hand), is that the Columbia pilot had the
strap in hand at the time of his door incident, and the strap was tore out
of the door (unconfirmed). The simple math might be something like 0.05 psi
differential (conservative est) times the size of the door (~1,000 sqin)
50 lbs. The actual force could be much more (> couple hundred lbs??).
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 11:43 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incidents
Rick,
... I have/am considering a strap that limits the doors opening to 6 inches
or so...
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: RV-10 Door Incidents |
That's what I was thinking too...unless the strap kept it from opening
more than 1 inch or so, and the strap was extremely tough AND pulled the
door in a forward direction, I don't think there's much you could do
to keep the door on. The force would just be too great. The thing
is, if that pin isn't in the proper place on the rear of the door,
it's going to torque and twist backwards and rip the hinges anyway.
I think, but am not positive, we've already seen hinges ripped in half,
so that will give an indication of the force. The only real worthy
protection I believe will be making sure the pins are both latched
fully. Once you have that, I think it would take a real breakage
to have a problem.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
rtitsworth wrote:
>
> Some ES guys have built such a strap. One thought/caution is to build it
> strong. My understanding (second hand), is that the Columbia pilot had the
> strap in hand at the time of his door incident, and the strap was tore out
> of the door (unconfirmed). The simple math might be something like 0.05 psi
> differential (conservative est) times the size of the door (~1,000 sqin)
> 50 lbs. The actual force could be much more (> couple hundred lbs??).
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
> (Michael Sausen)
> Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 11:43 AM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incidents
>
> Rick,
> ... I have/am considering a strap that limits the doors opening to 6 inches
> or so...
>
>
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: RV-10 Door Incidents |
Does anyone know of a door coming off that was sure it was latched on takeoff?
The system that Vans has developed works great. It is very sensitive and my light
on my dash is off only when the latches are locked. My only concern would be
fatigue on the doors where they attach to the hinges on the top.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
On Nov 22, 2007, at 12:04 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
That's what I was thinking too...unless the strap kept it from opening
more than 1 inch or so, and the strap was extremely tough AND pulled the
door in a forward direction, I don't think there's much you could do
to keep the door on. The force would just be too great. The thing
is, if that pin isn't in the proper place on the rear of the door,
it's going to torque and twist backwards and rip the hinges anyway.
I think, but am not positive, we've already seen hinges ripped in half,
so that will give an indication of the force. The only real worthy
protection I believe will be making sure the pins are both latched
fully. Once you have that, I think it would take a real breakage
to have a problem.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
rtitsworth wrote:
Some ES guys have built such a strap. One thought/caution is to build it
strong. My understanding (second hand), is that the Columbia pilot had the
strap in hand at the time of his door incident, and the strap was tore out
of the door (unconfirmed). The simple math might be something like 0.05 psi
differential (conservative est) times the size of the door (~1,000 sqin)
50 lbs. The actual force could be much more (> couple hundred lbs??).
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 11:43 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incidents
Rick,
... I have/am considering a strap that limits the doors opening to 6 inches
or so...
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: RV-10 Door Incidents |
Just make sure the lock pin is fully in place on the inner tube that
connects to the button on the door latch. If it is not, and your knee
or something hits the handle a little, it can come open. Once it
starts, the pressure on the door makes it want to continue going open
until it releases. Fortunately, when that happened to me I was able
to grab the door and close it (it wasn't too hard to close, but
without a handle on the back of the door as in the attached picture it
would have been impossible) before any damage was done to it. I would
say the first thing to do if that happens would be to get off the
power (unless you are on takeoff, maybe) and slow down. I know of two
cases where the door came open and didn't come off, one of which was
on takeoff and one of the hinges broke. Even with the hinge broken,
the pins held the door closed during flight.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Nov 22, 2007, at 4:10 PM, Scott Schmidt wrote:
> >
>
> Does anyone know of a door coming off that was sure it was latched
> on takeoff?
>
> The system that Vans has developed works great. It is very sensitive
> and my light on my dash is off only when the latches are locked. My
> only concern would be fatigue on the doors where they attach to the
> hinges on the top.
>
> Scott Schmidt
> scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
>
> On Nov 22, 2007, at 12:04 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
>
>
> That's what I was thinking too...unless the strap kept it from opening
> more than 1 inch or so, and the strap was extremely tough AND pulled
> the
> door in a forward direction, I don't think there's much you could do
> to keep the door on. The force would just be too great. The thing
> is, if that pin isn't in the proper place on the rear of the door,
> it's going to torque and twist backwards and rip the hinges anyway.
> I think, but am not positive, we've already seen hinges ripped in
> half,
> so that will give an indication of the force. The only real worthy
> protection I believe will be making sure the pins are both latched
> fully. Once you have that, I think it would take a real breakage
> to have a problem.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> rtitsworth wrote:
> >
> Some ES guys have built such a strap. One thought/caution is to
> build it
> strong. My understanding (second hand), is that the Columbia pilot
> had the
> strap in hand at the time of his door incident, and the strap was
> tore out
> of the door (unconfirmed). The simple math might be something like
> 0.05 psi
> differential (conservative est) times the size of the door (~1,000
> sqin)
> 50 lbs. The actual force could be much more (> couple hundred lbs??).
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
> (Michael Sausen)
> Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 11:43 AM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incidents
> Rick,
> ... I have/am considering a strap that limits the doors opening to 6
> inches
> or so...
>
>
Message 19
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Subject: | Manifold Pressure |
G'day all,
Happy thanksgiving to the guys across the pond!
I know this has been discussed in the past, but listers have been using
'Do Not Arch. . . ' so diligently that the archive trail is pretty
fragmented (ie useless). Where does one find an adapter for the 1/8"
tube (into the GRT EFIS) to the 3/32" restrictor at the manifold
pressure bulkhead fitting??
Cheers,
Ron
-187 finishing
"Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached files is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
your computer."
Message 20
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Subject: | Manifold Pressure |
I just went down to the local auto parts store (aviation department of
course) and got a box of air line fittings. It had various sizes and one of
them worked. Sorry I don't have brand or real sizes...
Rene' Felker
N423CF
40322
801-721-6080
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 3:21 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Manifold Pressure
G'day all,
Happy thanksgiving to the guys across the pond!
I know this has been discussed in the past, but listers have been using 'Do
Not Arch. . . ' so diligently that the archive trail is pretty fragmented
(ie useless). Where does one find an adapter for the 1/8" tube (into the
GRT EFIS) to the 3/32" restrictor at the manifold pressure bulkhead
fitting??
Cheers,
Ron
-187 finishing
"Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached files is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
your computer."
Message 21
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Subject: | Fine Wire Spark Plug Offer |
Aircraft Spruce is also offering a FREE $75 Aircraft Spruce Gift Card
with the purchase of one case (12) Autolite XL Fine Wire spark plugs.
The Unison Autolite XL Fine Wire spark plugs are priced well below
competitor's plugs, plus you receive the $75 Gift Card which can be used
on your next order with Aircraft Spruce.
Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Co.
1-877-4SPRUCE
www.aircraftspruce.com
Message 22
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Subject: | RV-10 Door Incidents |
Hmmm
This discussion of inadvertent door openings in flight is quite interesting.
In my PA28, I have had the door pop open a couple or four times (usually
because I didn't latch it properly and once because an examiner leaned on
the handle when I was doing an instrument ride.
IN a PA28, this is a pretty benign event, the door only opens a few inches
and then stays put. It is closable in flight - a technique I have mastered.
It is the forward hinges on a PA28 that make this a non event.
I was wondering if a latch on the forward edge of the door, engaged when the
door is locked would give the same sort of protection to the -10 gull wing
doors. I must admit the thought of shedding a door at 10k because a
passenger accidentally operated the door mechanism is not a pleasant one. It
would seem that the key to keeping the door in place would be to prevent the
forward edge entering the slipstream and being strippedd away from the
fuselage.
Alternatively, is there a simple way to prevent the door mechanism from
being accidentally operated while in flight?
Inquiring minds need to know.
Les Kearney
#40643 - still singing the section 29 blues
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: November-22-07 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incidents
That's what I was thinking too...unless the strap kept it from opening
more than 1 inch or so, and the strap was extremely tough AND pulled the
door in a forward direction, I don't think there's much you could do
to keep the door on. The force would just be too great. The thing
is, if that pin isn't in the proper place on the rear of the door,
it's going to torque and twist backwards and rip the hinges anyway.
I think, but am not positive, we've already seen hinges ripped in half,
so that will give an indication of the force. The only real worthy
protection I believe will be making sure the pins are both latched
fully. Once you have that, I think it would take a real breakage
to have a problem.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
rtitsworth wrote:
>
> Some ES guys have built such a strap. One thought/caution is to build it
> strong. My understanding (second hand), is that the Columbia pilot had
the
> strap in hand at the time of his door incident, and the strap was tore out
> of the door (unconfirmed). The simple math might be something like 0.05
psi
> differential (conservative est) times the size of the door (~1,000 sqin)
> 50 lbs. The actual force could be much more (> couple hundred lbs??).
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
> (Michael Sausen)
> Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 11:43 AM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incidents
>
> Rick,
> ... I have/am considering a strap that limits the doors opening to 6
inches
> or so...
>
>
Message 23
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|
Subject: | Re: RV-10 Door Incidents |
IF....IF you ensure that the roll pin in the mechanism fits into
the slot, then there is no issue at all. The lock mechanism
is very secure on the standard kit. It's kind of like the
Air Force Symbol....a circle with a bar through it. When the
roll pin of the thing is rotated so it drops into that
slot, it is actually tough to get it to release. On my doors,
I have to tell the passenger that they may have to push down
slightly on the door lever while pushing the thumb button or
the rotational pressure will not let it release. It would be
almost impossible to release it in flight without doing
something pretty abnormal. So, it really isn't something to
get all worked up a bit. Unless someone wants to redesign
their doors with forward hinges, just resign yourself to the
fact that you'll definitely want to make sure they're latched
and use the warning mechanism.
Also, as a sideline comment, I'm not sure but I believe one of
the flush latch mechanisms was lacking the ability to have a
detent for it to lock into like that, which is the reason
some have stated for NOT using at least that particular
3rd party latch set. It may be that things can be improved
somehow, but if you're going that route it's just something
that you may want to watch for.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Les Kearney wrote:
>
> Hmmm
>
> This discussion of inadvertent door openings in flight is quite interesting.
> In my PA28, I have had the door pop open a couple or four times (usually
> because I didn't latch it properly and once because an examiner leaned on
> the handle when I was doing an instrument ride.
>
> IN a PA28, this is a pretty benign event, the door only opens a few inches
> and then stays put. It is closable in flight - a technique I have mastered.
>
> It is the forward hinges on a PA28 that make this a non event.
>
> I was wondering if a latch on the forward edge of the door, engaged when the
> door is locked would give the same sort of protection to the -10 gull wing
> doors. I must admit the thought of shedding a door at 10k because a
> passenger accidentally operated the door mechanism is not a pleasant one. It
> would seem that the key to keeping the door in place would be to prevent the
> forward edge entering the slipstream and being strippedd away from the
> fuselage.
>
> Alternatively, is there a simple way to prevent the door mechanism from
> being accidentally operated while in flight?
>
> Inquiring minds need to know.
>
> Les Kearney
> #40643 - still singing the section 29 blues
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: November-22-07 12:04 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incidents
>
>
> That's what I was thinking too...unless the strap kept it from opening
> more than 1 inch or so, and the strap was extremely tough AND pulled the
> door in a forward direction, I don't think there's much you could do
> to keep the door on. The force would just be too great. The thing
> is, if that pin isn't in the proper place on the rear of the door,
> it's going to torque and twist backwards and rip the hinges anyway.
> I think, but am not positive, we've already seen hinges ripped in half,
> so that will give an indication of the force. The only real worthy
> protection I believe will be making sure the pins are both latched
> fully. Once you have that, I think it would take a real breakage
> to have a problem.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> rtitsworth wrote:
>>
>> Some ES guys have built such a strap. One thought/caution is to build it
>> strong. My understanding (second hand), is that the Columbia pilot had
> the
>> strap in hand at the time of his door incident, and the strap was tore out
>> of the door (unconfirmed). The simple math might be something like 0.05
> psi
>> differential (conservative est) times the size of the door (~1,000 sqin)
>> 50 lbs. The actual force could be much more (> couple hundred lbs??).
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
>> (Michael Sausen)
>> Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 11:43 AM
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incidents
>>
>> Rick,
>> ... I have/am considering a strap that limits the doors opening to 6
> inches
>> or so...
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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|
Subject: | Manifold Pressure Fitting |
Ron, there was a fitting in the Vans kit with a 1/8 hose end on it for a
manifold fitting but I also needed a manifold pressure source for my P-Mag
so I just modified a 90 degree bulkhead fitting to do both. I took two
short 3/16 bolts, cut the heads off, and used a 40(?) drill in a drill press
to go right through the bolt to make it hollow. Then I just drilled the
bulkhead fitting and threaded it for the 3/16 bolts and put a little JB Weld
on it to be sure. Used regular manifold line (#6 I think) to right rear
cylinder. Be sure to put the restrictor in. Total time was about 20
minutes as I remember it. Pictures should tell the story.
Hope this helps.
Bill S
7a finishing finishing finishing ,......
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 4:21 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Manifold Pressure
G'day all,
Happy thanksgiving to the guys across the pond!
I know this has been discussed in the past, but listers have been using 'Do
Not Arch. . . ' so diligently that the archive trail is pretty fragmented
(ie useless). Where does one find an adapter for the 1/8" tube (into the
GRT EFIS) to the 3/32" restrictor at the manifold pressure bulkhead
fitting??
Cheers,
Ron
-187 finishing
"Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached files is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
your computer."
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