Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:23 AM - Re: Holes in the lid (Kelly McMullen)
2. 05:00 AM - Re: Avionics - Battery Bay door (Jesse Saint)
3. 05:02 AM - Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) (Wayne Edgerton)
4. 05:16 AM - Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) (Wayne Edgerton)
5. 05:17 AM - Re: Holes in the lid (Michael Kraus)
6. 05:45 AM - Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) (John W. Cox)
7. 06:24 AM - Re: Holes in the lid (David McNeill)
8. 08:23 AM - Re: Holes in the lid (Deems Davis)
9. 09:18 AM - Re: Dual battery (MauleDriver)
10. 09:34 AM - Re: Avionics - Battery Bay door (Jae Chang)
11. 04:34 PM - Re: Engine Choices (RV10 4JF)
12. 06:21 PM - Seat Belts Anyone? (Deems Davis)
13. 08:35 PM - Re: Seat Belts Anyone? (bob.kaufmann)
14. 08:53 PM - Re: Seat Belts Anyone? (Tim Olson)
15. 09:24 PM - Re: Seat Belts Anyone? (Robin Marks)
16. 10:54 PM - Re: Seat Belts Anyone? (AirMike)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Holes in the lid |
I'm not sure why the GPS makers so obsess with having the antenna where it
can see 360 degrees. I find with my tiny bluetooth receiver that I use with
a PDA that I rarely have less than 7 satellites and usually 8-10. Seems to
me that the glareshield and area in front of windshield should be pretty
good.
On Nov 30, 2007 11:37 PM, John Ackerman <johnag5b@cableone.net> wrote:
>
> Tim,
> I had planned to do just that except that I planned to "line" the
> holes with Al tubing. However, the structural analysis of complex
> curved sandwich structures with cutouts (doors, windows, windshield)
> is waaay beyond my capabilities. I have no way of knowing whether a
> hard point there would make the structure as a whole weaker or
> stronger, for example.
> Now where am I gonna put those darn GPS/WX antennae? Darn!
> John
>
>
> On Nov 30, 2007, at 10:53 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> >
> > John,
> >
> > Did you inquire about what if you drilled an antenna hole or other
> > type of hole, dug out some of the foam and filled it with epoxy
> > with structural filler to go out into the foam cavity slightly,
> > and then drilled a hole through your new hard spot for the
> > antenna? This isn't an engineered answer, but it seems that it
> > should be pretty easy to get back some structure in the cabin top
> > by just reinforcing the area you drilled through...and it's an
> > easy process to do.
> >
> >
> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> > John Ackerman wrote:
> >> <johnag5b@cableone.net>
> >> Here's a heads up, folks
> >> We're installing an Avidyne TAS600 active traffic system. The
> >> ideal (for antenna performance) place to mount the top traffic
> >> antenna (there is also one on the bottom of the fuselage) is on
> >> the high point of the fuselage, over the doors. I emailed Van's to
> >> ask about the structural suitability of that location, and was told:
> >>> On the C-1001 Cabin Cover there are areas of solid laminate,
> >>> areas of 1
> >>> inch thick foam core, and areas of 1/4 inch honeycomb core.
> >>> Drilling of
> >>> holes (except those called for in the RV-10 manual) through any
> >>> area of
> >>> solid laminate or 1 inch thick core is not allowed as it will
> >>> adversely affect the
> >>> structural integrity of the cabin cover. Drilling of holes in the
> >>> area of 1/4 inch
> >>> core is acceptable so long as the edge of the hole(s) is no
> >>> closer than 2
> >>> inches from the edge of the honeycomb.
> >> Clearly my proposed location was structurally unacceptable. I
> >> infer from this that one should not mount even GPS antennae
> >> through the foam core.
> >> Ken suggested that we
> >>> ...mount the antenna further aft so as to be in the area of
> >>> honeycomb core. The cabin cover provides roll-over protection to the
> >>> occupants in the event of a crash and is, therefore, very much a
> >>> structurally
> >>> critical component.
> >> We are using an overhead plenum that has provision for a DVD
> >> player or whatever right behind the foam core area at the front of
> >> the honeycomb area.
> >> We will put the top traffic antenna right there with a 101/2" X
> >> 13" ground plane of 0.025" Al. The 10 1/2" dimension smaller than
> >> specified (minimum 11 3/4"), but our top antenna primarily looks
> >> fore and aft, and we are told that it will do. Compromises,
> >> compromises. Good thing I've worked with engineers my whole life.
> >> We shall see how well we can make it work - I expect to post again
> >> on this some years in the future when we're flying ;-)
> >> It sure is great to get that kind of support! Prompt, too.
> >> BTW, we got fantastic support from Avidyne/Ryan, as well. Good
> >> thing- this is a tough install for those of us inexperienced with
> >> RF devices and avionics in general.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Avionics - Battery Bay door |
This is not an engineering answer, but if I was to put in an access
panel or door on the outside, aft of the baggage bulkhead, the last
place I would put it would be above the longeron. First, cutting a
hole in the curved skin would be hard to fit a door to. Second, a
curved piece of metal, in my understanding, is much more rigid and
structural than a flat piece, hence more important to the structural
integrity of the tail. Third, it would be a lot more work, IMHO, to
seal the panel off to keep water out of the tail, at least when parked
on the ground. There are probably more reasons that I am not thinking
of, but that is what comes to mind. For looks and structural
integrity (again, from a non-engineering mind), If I were to put in an
access panel from outside the battery area, I would pick a flat area
either on the side or the belly, put a nice heavy doubler in, and put
in an access panel like is used for the stall warning system that has
screws all around the perimeter. I usually put in a ground power jack
(piper style from Spruce) on the belly to be able to charge or jump
the battery, and with this I have not seen a lot of ongoing need to
access the battery under normal conditions (if any conditions can be
called normal) that a ground power jack wouldn't take care of.
all standard disclaimers apply
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Dec 1, 2007, at 1:37 AM, AirMike wrote:
>
> I just installed my F/G Cabin top this week and I am presently
> working on the doors. I was looking at the area behind the baggage
> bulkhead and thinking that it would be great to have a door back
> there (between the longeron and the z-stringer) to check on your
> battery, strobe power source, avionics and pitch servo. Any ideas
> out there if the upper skin could be reinforced to support such a
> door, or even if such an idea is practical ? Has anyone done such
> an installation? It would seem a great convenience as compared to
> opening the baggage bulkhead to check on the battery.
>
> --------
> OSH '08 or Bust
> Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=149815#149815
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
Hi Deems,
Attached are pictures of my engine on Aerosport's engine test stand,
which is on the back of a truck so they can run it outside.
Boy I can't remember exactly, and my records are at the hangar, but I
think they ran it for nearly 4 hours on the test stand. I seem to
remember they had an entry where they ran it somewhere around 45 minutes
at 2750rpm on one run.
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
Time: 05:20:35 AM PST US
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
So how do the engine builders cool the engines when they run them
on
their test stands for prolonged periods? The BPE dyno is inside
IIRC,
and I recall numerous pictures of engine 'test cells' where the
engine
is mounted on a trailer or the back of a truck. I'm not trying to
be
argumentative, just trying to learn and understand. I think I'll
give
Rhonda/Allen a shout and see if they've got any suggestions.
Anybody
know how Aerosport does their test runs?
Deems
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)Engine Choices |
(Taxi Testing New Engine)
I had some concerns about prolonged ground operations when I first ran
my engine so I called Bart at Aerosport. He told me that they had run
the engine fairly hard on their test stand so I didn't need to worry a
lot about ground operations, but I just needed to keep a close watch on
the engine temperatures and not let it heat up. That's what I did and so
far, crossing my fingers, I've not seen any ill affects to the engine.
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
Message 5
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| Subject: | Holes in the lid |
<<Now where am I gonna put those darn GPS/WX antennae? Darn!>>
We put ours under the cowl... 3 gps antennas and the XM antenna. Do issues, but
keep them centered between the firewall and engine mount and as high as you
can... And I'm told not to use metallic paint on the cowl.
-Mike Kraus
-RV-4 flying with antennas in the cowl
-RV-10 building
-----Original Message-----
From: "John Ackerman" <johnag5b@cableone.net>
Sent: 12/01/07 1:37 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Holes in the lid
Tim,
I had planned to do just that except that I planned to "line" the
holes with Al tubing. However, the structural analysis of complex
curved sandwich structures with cutouts (doors, windows, windshield)
is waaay beyond my capabilities. I have no way of knowing whether a
hard point there would make the structure as a whole weaker or
stronger, for example.
Now where am I gonna put those darn GPS/WX antennae? Darn!
John
On Nov 30, 2007, at 10:53 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> John,
>
> Did you inquire about what if you drilled an antenna hole or other
> type of hole, dug out some of the foam and filled it with epoxy
> with structural filler to go out into the foam cavity slightly,
> and then drilled a hole through your new hard spot for the
> antenna? This isn't an engineered answer, but it seems that it
> should be pretty easy to get back some structure in the cabin top
> by just reinforcing the area you drilled through...and it's an
Message 6
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| Subject: | Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
A wonderful view on the perspective. Thanks Wayne
John Cox
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
Edgerton
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 5:02 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
Hi Deems,
Attached are pictures of my engine on Aerosport's engine test stand,
which is on the back of a truck so they can run it outside.
Boy I can't remember exactly, and my records are at the hangar, but I
think they ran it for nearly 4 hours on the test stand. I seem to
remember they had an entry where they ran it somewhere around 45 minutes
at 2750rpm on one run.
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
Time:
05:20:35 AM PST US
From:
Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
Subject:
Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
So how do the engine builders cool the engines when they run them
on
their test stands for prolonged periods? The BPE dyno is inside
IIRC,
and I recall numerous pictures of engine 'test cells' where the
engine
is mounted on a trailer or the back of a truck. I'm not trying to
be
argumentative, just trying to learn and understand. I think I'll
give
Rhonda/Allen a shout and see if they've got any suggestions.
Anybody
know how Aerosport does their test runs?
Deems
Message 7
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| Subject: | Holes in the lid |
I don't believe GPS transmission signals are shielded by fiberglass anyway.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 5:23 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Holes in the lid
I'm not sure why the GPS makers so obsess with having the antenna where it
can see 360 degrees. I find with my tiny bluetooth receiver that I use with
a PDA that I rarely have less than 7 satellites and usually 8-10. Seems to
me that the glareshield and area in front of windshield should be pretty
good.
On Nov 30, 2007 11:37 PM, John Ackerman <johnag5b@cableone.net> wrote:
Tim,
I had planned to do just that except that I planned to "line" the
holes with Al tubing. However, the structural analysis of complex
curved sandwich structures with cutouts (doors, windows, windshield)
is waaay beyond my capabilities. I have no way of knowing whether a
hard point there would make the structure as a whole weaker or
stronger, for example.
Now where am I gonna put those darn GPS/WX antennae? Darn!
John
On Nov 30, 2007, at 10:53 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> John,
>
> Did you inquire about what if you drilled an antenna hole or other
> type of hole, dug out some of the foam and filled it with epoxy
> with structural filler to go out into the foam cavity slightly,
> and then drilled a hole through your new hard spot for the
> antenna? This isn't an engineered answer, but it seems that it
> should be pretty easy to get back some structure in the cabin top
> by just reinforcing the area you drilled through...and it's an
> easy process to do.
>
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> John Ackerman wrote:
>> <johnag5b@cableone.net>
>> Here's a heads up, folks
>> We're installing an Avidyne TAS600 active traffic system. The
>> ideal (for antenna performance) place to mount the top traffic
>> antenna (there is also one on the bottom of the fuselage) is on
>> the high point of the fuselage, over the doors. I emailed Van's to
>> ask about the structural suitability of that location, and was told:
>>> On the C-1001 Cabin Cover there are areas of solid laminate,
>>> areas of 1
>>> inch thick foam core, and areas of 1/4 inch honeycomb core.
>>> Drilling of
>>> holes (except those called for in the RV-10 manual) through any
>>> area of
>>> solid laminate or 1 inch thick core is not allowed as it will
>>> adversely affect the
>>> structural integrity of the cabin cover. Drilling of holes in the
>>> area of 1/4 inch
>>> core is acceptable so long as the edge of the hole(s) is no
>>> closer than 2
>>> inches from the edge of the honeycomb.
>> Clearly my proposed location was structurally unacceptable. I
>> infer from this that one should not mount even GPS antennae
>> through the foam core.
>> Ken suggested that we
>>> ...mount the antenna further aft so as to be in the area of
>>> honeycomb core. The cabin cover provides roll-over protection to the
>>> occupants in the event of a crash and is, therefore, very much a
>>> structurally
>>> critical component.
>> We are using an overhead plenum that has provision for a DVD
>> player or whatever right behind the foam core area at the front of
>> the honeycomb area.
>> We will put the top traffic antenna right there with a 101/2" X
>> 13" ground plane of 0.025" Al. The 10 1/2" dimension smaller than
>> specified (minimum 11 3/4"), but our top antenna primarily looks
>> fore and aft, and we are told that it will do. Compromises,
>> compromises. Good thing I've worked with engineers my whole life.
>> We shall see how well we can make it work - I expect to post again
>> on this some years in the future when we're flying ;-)
>> It sure is great to get that kind of support! Prompt, too.
>> BTW, we got fantastic support from Avidyne/Ryan, as well. Good
>> thing- this is a tough install for those of us inexperienced with
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Holes in the lid |
OH NO !!!!! And just when I've finished fabricating my 5 ft tall
gyroscopically gimbal stabilized antenna pylon made of space age
transparidium!!!!!!!! =-O
Some days' a guy just can't win for loosing.
On a more serious note, since I already have mounted both the WAAS GPS
and XM antennas in the DMZ, I'm going to do as Tim suggests and dig out
the foam 5/16- 3/8" back from the antenna cable holes fill it with flox
then redrill. As to the mounting screw holes................... :-\
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
Kelly McMullen wrote:
> I'm not sure why the GPS makers so obsess with having the antenna
> where it can see 360 degrees. I find with my tiny bluetooth receiver
> that I use with a PDA that I rarely have less than 7 satellites and
> usually 8-10. Seems to me that the glareshield and area in front of
> windshield should be pretty good.
>
> *
>
> *
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Dual battery |
Bill, here is my solution for twin Odessey 680s, split buss and dual
alternator (Z14).
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=MauleDriver&project=224&category=2155&log=43554&row=8
<http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=MauleDriver&project=224&category=2155&log=43554&row=8>
Thanks to everyone who has documented and posted their installations. I
just built my solution on top of everyone who had done one before. This
site and community is the best!
Bill "back to building after completing the Dishwasher install from hell
- wondering if anyone has homebuilt an aircraft with a head" Watson
#40605
Durham NC
Bill & Tami Britton wrote:
> I'm ready to build my battery box and need to modify it to fit dual
> battery's. Only problem is that I don't know which battery to use.
> Any suggestions??? How does one decide on which battery is the
> "right" battery, and where can I find measurements for these batteries
> so I know how big to make the tray.
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Avionics - Battery Bay door |
Hey Mike... I plan to do something similar to Robin. I have seen someone
else put their ground power plug behind the baggage bulkhead, so the
access door was used for access to that as well.
I like the floors that people are putting in, in this area. It seems
there is enough *stuff* where a flat floor is useful.
Jae
40533 - wing controls
Robin Marks wrote:
>
> We placed an access panel on the rear bulkhead as partially detailed in
> the top photo:
>
> http://www.painttheweb.com/rv-10/AeroxO2.htm
>
> I actually have better photos at home but you get the idea. Large access
> door that can be removed by pulling the pins if you needed to work back
> there for an extended period of time
>
> Robin
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Choices |
Attached are a couple of pictures of my homemade engine hood. Plywood sides, 1x
and 2x structural wood for the frame and metal flashing. Construction adhesive
was used on all mating surfaces, roofing nails for the metal, duck tape and
high temp RTV to seal the joints. Simple but effective. It must be securely attached
to the engine. I set it on my engine baffles and did my engine run in prior
to the engine break in. The article I followed recommends at least distance
from spinner to tip of prop.
BTW, for my overhaul I have a 3 ring binder where I listed all part and serial
numbers for all components FWF. I also documented my engine measurements,
run in and break in info. The binder comes in handy if I ever have to research
something for a Service Letter, Service Bulletin or AD. He who buys my plane
will also get more than just a log book.
JF
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=149935#149935
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0255_183.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0254_298.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0253_658.jpg
Message 12
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| Subject: | Seat Belts Anyone? |
I need to order and install seatbelts. After waffling back and forth on
whether to go with inertial reels and the associated changes to mount
them, I've reached a new milestone in my build experience, I'm passing
up a Mod!!!!! I'm going to go with the standard Van's configuration, and
just learn to deal with the "dangling belts". So, I know Van's sells
them in Black and Grey. But I'd like to consider something else. Since
we're not doing acro, I'd also prefer a more streamlined clasp/keeper
rather than the military style. Where are others getting your belts
from? Lead times? For those who been flying are there any things you'd
do or order different if you did it over again?
Thanks
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
Message 13
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| Subject: | Seat Belts Anyone? |
I went with the exotic tan from Van's. Figured I'd build some kind of a
bracket from the ceiling to hold them.
Bob K
Ditto on where I'm at, but you must be a little ahead of me.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 5:08 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Seat Belts Anyone?
I need to order and install seatbelts. After waffling back and forth on
whether to go with inertial reels and the associated changes to mount
them, I've reached a new milestone in my build experience, I'm passing
up a Mod!!!!! I'm going to go with the standard Van's configuration, and
just learn to deal with the "dangling belts". So, I know Van's sells
them in Black and Grey. But I'd like to consider something else. Since
we're not doing acro, I'd also prefer a more streamlined clasp/keeper
rather than the military style. Where are others getting your belts
from? Lead times? For those who been flying are there any things you'd
do or order different if you did it over again?
Thanks
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Seat Belts Anyone? |
Deems,
I think the most common non-Van's ones are the Hooker Harnesses.
http://www.hookerharness.com/
The ones I have are similar but not exactly the same looking as
the "commerical" ones on the website:
http://www.hookerharness.com/aviationcommercial.php
It's kind of that normal aviation buckle with a 4-point system
on all 4 seats. (Yeah, I did away with the center bone-breaker
lug in the rear)
I don't know the exact model I ordered, but I just told them
to sell me the color I wanted (they have tons), and make the
belts "just like Randy's" from that famous RV-10 N610RV.
They work well, and don't look too unusual, and the passengers
actually appreciate it when I show them how they buckle together
and explain that the belts used are there for good safety, being
similar to 4 point racing harnesses.
You'll probably want to call them for more details on model number
of belts, but for me I didn't provide much...just what I said
above.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Deems Davis wrote:
>
> I need to order and install seatbelts. After waffling back and forth on
> whether to go with inertial reels and the associated changes to mount
> them, I've reached a new milestone in my build experience, I'm passing
> up a Mod!!!!! I'm going to go with the standard Van's configuration, and
> just learn to deal with the "dangling belts". So, I know Van's sells
> them in Black and Grey. But I'd like to consider something else. Since
> we're not doing acro, I'd also prefer a more streamlined clasp/keeper
> rather than the military style. Where are others getting your belts
> from? Lead times? For those who been flying are there any things you'd
> do or order different if you did it over again?
>
> Thanks
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> 'Its all done....Its just not put together'
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Seat Belts Anyone? |
Deems,
I looked at the retract and even had a way to do it cheep. But
the significant weight and complexity brought me to the same conclusion.
What do you think about the Simpson belts? Heck it's only money? I was
debating between a color matched CamLock release and a basic buckle.
Jearl, what did you get and about what was the cost?
Robin
Do Not Archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Seat Belts Anyone? |
I thought that this was a rather elegant solution for the dangle phenomenon.
These guys at OSH had a good solution to the belts plus they had these neat battery
powered LED lights that they got at Wal Mart for $7 :D
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OSH '08 or Bust
Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=149995#149995
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