Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:09 AM - Infinity Stick Grips (Richard Sipp)
2. 06:35 AM - Re: Infinity Stick Grips (Doerr, Ray R [NTK])
3. 06:49 AM - Re: Door Edge Insulation (bcondrey)
4. 06:59 AM - Re: Infinity Stick Grips (Tim Olson)
5. 07:13 AM - Re: Infinity Stick Grips (Rene Felker)
6. 07:26 AM - Re: Trutrak AP (Nuisance)
7. 08:31 AM - Jeppesen updates (Wayne Edgerton)
8. 08:54 AM - Re: Jeppesen updates (Mark Ritter)
9. 10:00 AM - Re: prop torque help (KiloPapa)
10. 11:24 AM - Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) (John W. Cox)
11. 12:21 PM - Static Line Routing (MauleDriver)
12. 12:45 PM - Composite workshop for RV-10s Jan 26/27 2008 (Dave Saylor)
13. 01:20 PM - Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) (Scott Schmidt)
14. 02:19 PM - Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) (Rhonda Bewley)
15. 04:47 PM - Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) (Kelly McMullen)
16. 05:52 PM - Help requested with aileron alignment question/issue (Kent Forsythe)
17. 06:27 PM - Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) (John W. Cox)
18. 06:43 PM - Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) (John W. Cox)
19. 06:50 PM - Re: Static Line Routing (MauleDriver)
20. 07:20 PM - Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) (Kelly McMullen)
21. 07:40 PM - AC registration time (Sheldon Olesen)
22. 07:58 PM - "Innies" and "outies", step fairing (Sheldon Olesen)
23. 08:16 PM - Slick Start (McGANN, Ron)
24. 08:34 PM - Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) (Kelly McMullen)
25. 11:25 PM - Re: Static Line Routing (AirMike)
26. 11:30 PM - Re: "Innies" and "outies", step fairing (AirMike)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Infinity Stick Grips |
For those of you who have installed the Infinity Stick Grips, do you
have any advice on getting the grip cable routed into the top of the
stick at the top and out at the bottom.? Were you able to do it and
retain the cable sheath or did you remove the sheath? Were did you
drill the access holes?
Thanks for any ideas.
Dick Sipp
40065
Message 2
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| Subject: | Infinity Stick Grips |
I was able to keep the sheathing on. I ran my cable down the i
nside of the tube, but right where the curved tube is welded to the straigh
t section where the Stick is mounted, you will have to drill a hole there t
o be able to run up inside the couple of inches of the straight section. I
f Van's would miter this joint and then weld, you could run without needing
the drilled hole. Then on the bottom end I drilled my exit hole right at
the pivot point to minimize the movement of the cable. This has worked gre
at so far, current inspection showed no issues.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250 (N519RV 340 hours)
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Sipp
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 8:08 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Infinity Stick Grips
For those of you who have installed the Infinity Stick Grips, do you have a
ny advice on getting the grip cable routed into the top of the stick at the
top and out at the bottom.? Were you able to do it and retain the cable s
heath or did you remove the sheath? Were did you drill the access holes?
Thanks for any ideas.
Dick Sipp
40065
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Door Edge Insulation |
Another source is McMaster-Carr, easiest way to find it is to simply search on
"3M Silicone" and it comes up at the bottom of the page. The 10.3 oz cartridge
is 3M part number 8663, McMaster-Carr part number 74955A68 and it's $11.85.
You can also get the 3 oz tube for $8.00...
Bob #40105
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150165#150165
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Infinity Stick Grips |
I did the same except I came out the back end of the tube on the
bottom but was careful to position my next adel clamp holding
the cable so that it was in a position that wouldn't cause issues
with wire flex. You need to make sure it won't jam, of course,
and that the flex won't chafe anything. Neither thing is hard
to prevent. Ray's idea is great too.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Doerr, Ray R [NTK] wrote:
> I was able to keep the sheathing on. I ran my cable down
> the inside of the tube, but right where the curved tube is welded to the
> straight section where the Stick is mounted, you will have to drill a
> hole there to be able to run up inside the couple of inches of the
> straight section. If Vans would miter this joint and then weld, you
> could run without needing the drilled hole. Then on the bottom end I
> drilled my exit hole right at the pivot point to minimize the movement
> of the cable. This has worked great so far, current inspection showed
> no issues.
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank You
> *Ray Doerr*
> 40250 (N519RV 340 hours)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Richard Sipp
> *Sent:* Monday, December 03, 2007 8:08 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Infinity Stick Grips
>
>
>
> For those of you who have installed the Infinity Stick Grips, do you
> have any advice on getting the grip cable routed into the top of the
> stick at the top and out at the bottom.? Were you able to do it and
> retain the cable sheath or did you remove the sheath? Were did you
> drill the access holes?
>
>
>
> Thanks for any ideas.
>
>
>
> Dick Sipp
>
> 40065
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> * *
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 5
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| Subject: | Infinity Stick Grips |
I ran mine on the outside and got a cool cover from Abbey at flightline
interiors.
Rene' Felker
N423CF
40322
801-721-6080
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Sipp
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 7:08 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Infinity Stick Grips
For those of you who have installed the Infinity Stick Grips, do you have
any advice on getting the grip cable routed into the top of the stick at the
top and out at the bottom.? Were you able to do it and retain the cable
sheath or did you remove the sheath? Were did you drill the access holes?
Thanks for any ideas.
Dick Sipp
40065
Message 6
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If you have a "VS" or above (more letters), the ALT HOLD is on any time the autopilot
is engaged, unless you go into the vertical setup screen and turn Pitch
OFF.
It is assumed that if you buy the vertical speed capable autopilot, you will use
that function for climbing and ascending. Only the base DF-II will do ALT HOLD
only in response to the ALT button.
John
--------
Life is too short to run lean of peak.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150175#150175
Message 7
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| Subject: | Jeppesen updates |
I've been trying to figure out the Jeppesen Nav Data update issue. As
many of you already know, Chelton had been the update source up until
now for this information. I just talked to Jeppesen and they told me
that beginning Jan 7th they will be providing the updates for the
Chelton systems. An annual subscription with internet download on 28day
intervals will be $455 per year for Nav Data only and $505 for Nav Data
and Obstacle.
Many of you probably already know all of this, I didn't, but this is for
those who don't.
Also for those of you who have the Free Flight 1201 WAAS GPS, I talked
to them this morning and they told me if a person has unit where the
part number ends in 0303 or less, then that unit will have to be sent
back in for a software update. They said they will usually turn it
around in a week but if need be they can expedite the process.
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
Message 8
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| Subject: | Jeppesen updates |
These Jepp subscriptions are killing me - 430W Nav Data and Terrain, GMX 20
0 Nav Data, JeppView Charts for GMX 200 (really cool- approach plates are s
uperimposed on the moving map pages). Oh yeah almost forgot the XM weather
monthly fee. Thank goodness the GRT updates are free (sort of). Waiting
on new GRT HR screens with synthetic vision.
Mark
N410MR<html><div></div>
From: wayne.e@grandecom.netTo: rv10-list@matronics.comSubject: RV10-List: J
eppesen updatesDate: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 10:29:53 -0600
I've been trying to figure out the Jeppesen Nav Data update issue. As many
of you already know, Chelton had been the update source up until now for th
is information. I just talked to Jeppesen and they told me that beginning J
an 7th they will be providing the updates for the Chelton systems. An annua
l subscription with internet download on 28day intervals will be $455 per y
ear for Nav Data only and $505 for Nav Data and Obstacle.
Many of you probably already know all of this, I didn't, but this is for th
ose who don't.
Also for those of you who have the Free Flight 1201 WAAS GPS, I talked to t
hem this morning and they told me if a person has unit where the part numbe
r ends in 0303 or less, then that unit will have to be sent back in for a s
oftware update. They said they will usually turn it around in a week but if
need be they can expedite the process.
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
_________________________________________________________________
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.Download today it's FREE
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http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_sharelife_1120
07
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: prop torque help |
Found the following info:
Method for calculating torque wrench setting when using a torque wrench
with extensions:
Multiply the length of the torque wrench by the "desired torque", next
divide this number by the combined length of the wrench and extension.
The
result is the correct setting for the wrench.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------
Formula for Calculating the Effect of Torque Wrench Extensions:
M2 = M1 x L2
----
L1
Where L1 is the normal length and L2 is the extended length, M1 is the
set torque and M2
the actual torque applied to the nut.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------
Kevin
40494
Message 10
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| Subject: | Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
Allen, my tail is on fire here in Oregon for not having 20/20 Hindsight
vision on the poor job our state legislature just did for banning all
gasoline sales (both MOGAS and AVGAS) which does not contain at least
10% ethanol. They (the Greenies)want even more.
Can you come up with a price to Dyno an IO and O-540D4A5 run on 10%
adulterated Oregon fuel and maybe E85 so everyone can chose their engine
wisely. This is not about availability, this is about Greenies saying
AVGAS must help clean the environment and save Global Warming. Jerry
Cochran in his Subie began the call that the "Sky is Falling to the
EAA". The Tsunami hits next month.
Dave Martin, past President of OPA and past Editor of Kitplanes added
the impact ramification to LSA, STCed aircraft and other Rotax
propulsion systems. This issue will clearly affect all kit builders,
not just us RV-10 bangers. Hard data is always best and maybe you will
direct me to contract with George Braly. "Carbon credits" like Albert
Gore uses might have made more sense to the public.
John Cox
VP for Legislative Affairs - Oregon Pilots Association
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BPA
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 6:05 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
Guys,
You need to keep your taxi tests (and all ground runs) as short as
possible. On the ground there is NOT enough cooling air to keep the
CHT's in check. Several 5-10 minute tests are much better than a couple
of lengthy runs around the airport. Need to keep CHT's in the 300-330
range while testing. Many a new/overhauled engine have had the jugs
removed to 'deglaze' the barrels because of extensive ground running.
We test new engines for 1 1/2 hours on our dynamometer. Additional time
is required whether it be on the dyno or in the airplane. Keep in mind
however that extensive ground running at any time can lead to what we
call coked cylinders.
When a cylinder gets hot, the oil 'cooks' and adheres itself to the
barrel. When this happens, instead of the rings scraping the oil off the
barrel (to dissipate the generated heat and to lubricate), the rings
hydroplane over the barrel. This leads to blo-by, dirty oil, and a lot
of wiping the belly down on your bird.
Allen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
So how do the engine builders cool the engines when they run them on
their test stands for prolonged periods? The BPE dyno is inside IIRC,
and I recall numerous pictures of engine 'test cells' where the engine
is mounted on a trailer or the back of a truck. I'm not trying to be
argumentative, just trying to learn and understand. I think I'll give
Rhonda/Allen a shout and see if they've got any suggestions. Anybody
know how Aerosport does their test runs?
Deems
Kelly McMullen wrote:
> That is definitely one of the solutions I had in mind. I'd think 3
> hours would be the bare minimum to get the rings somewhat seated. I
> suppose doing high speed taxi tests where the engine got a few bursts
> of power, then was shut down immediately might be OK, as an
> alternative, with full cowling in place. Deems, I know you would not
> get adequate cooling without the cooling and some forward motion.
>
> On Nov 30, 2007 12:13 AM, Robin Marks <robin1@mrmoisture.com
> <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>> wrote:
>
> Kelly, Deem,
>
> You can categorize this under too little too late but I negotiated
> with my engine builder to run my engine a total of 3 hours on the
> dyno instead of their standard 1.5 hours. I did this BEFORE I sent
> in my deposit for the engine. I originally thought we agreed on 4
> hours but my contract said 3 so I asked if they could run it
> another hour since it was still on the stand. They said sure...
for
> $500/hour.
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 11
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| Subject: | Static Line Routing |
Does Van's document a static line routing in the plans? Especially a
routing forward of the tailcone section.
I've viewed a number of builder solutions for the tailcone section but
haven't seen what people are doing forward of the tailcone - from the
battery to the panel - and wherever else it needs to go (various air
computers imbedded in any of the electronics).
I'm trying to close up the baggage floor and this is one of the last of
the lines that need to be buried underneath.
Thanks
Bill "amazing how much homebuilding you can do when you call in sick" Watson
Durham NC
40605
Message 12
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| Subject: | Composite workshop for RV-10s Jan 26/27 2008 |
Working with Composites: RV-10
This course will provide an overview of the composite parts and techniques
used on Van's Aircraft RV-10 kits. We will focus on correct materials and
processes, fitting the composite top and doors, cowl, spinner, fairings, and
other composite parts. You will recieve hands-on training to identify and
use all necessary materials. Examples of completed and in-process assemblies
will be available to view.
Weather permitting, we'll be giving RV-10 demo flights to as many interested
parties as possible--indicate when you sign up if you're interested, first
come, first served, no additional charge.
Who:
Harold Bunyi and Dave Saylor. Harold holds a BS in Aeronautical Engineering
and built kitplane parts in the Phillipines for many years. He has worked at
AirCrafters for 5 years and spends nearly all his time working with
composites.
I started working with composite kitplanes in 1998. I am an A&P/IA, and I
have finished my personal RV-10 project, along with many other composite and
aluminum projects. I recieved my BS in Aeronautics from San Jose State.
When:
January 26 and 27 (Saturday & Sunday)
8AM-4PM Saturday
8AM-3PM Sunday
Where:
AirCrafters LLC
Watsonville Airport (KWVI)
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141
<outbind://40/www.AirCraftersLLC.com> www.AirCraftersLLC.com
Class size is limited to 15 builders
$350 payable by cash, check or credit card Please call or email to register,
even if you have emailed expressing interst in the last few days. 50%
deposit is required before January 11. Balance due before class starts.
Nearest major airport is San Jose International. 45 minute drive to KWVI.
Best Lodging is Watsonville Comfort Inn: 831-728-2300. Other lodging is
available nearby. Aircraft parking is available at AirCrafters. Please call
if we can help with logistics.
Many thanks for your interest,
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
<outbind://40/www.AirCraftersLLC.com> www.AirCraftersLLC.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
A couple of questions:
What studies did they do to show there are no issues with all the current aircraft?
What effect do you all see with this if we want to fly our IO-540's out there?
It really is too bad the special interest groups have so much power. I don't know
how they do it.
If they only knew the effect of 100LL vs. what other countries allow. Pollution
is a global problem and I can promise that 100LL is not the issue. I've traveled
the world in my oil and gas career and they need to go visit a few third
world countries. We are the leaders in burning energy cleanly. I want clean
air too but lets be smart about it.
Just wait til China starts driving cars, I can promise they won't have the restrictions
we have, and oil will blow through $100/bbl with ease.
I love the ads on TV that GM has: "I want to drive an electric car!" And where
are you going to get the electricity?
Sorry, stupidity bothers me. Just concerned about flying to OR now. I do think
this ethanol fad will be gone in 24 months when they find out how much energy
it takes to produce it and that we can't continue to increase the production
of it.
Go get em John!!! Talk some sense into them.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
----- Original Message ----
From: John W. Cox <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Sent: Monday, December 3, 2007 12:18:16 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
Allen, my tail is on fire here in Oregon for not having 20/20 Hindsight
vision on the poor job our state legislature just did for banning all
gasoline sales (both MOGAS and AVGAS) which does not contain at least
10% ethanol. They (the Greenies)want even more.
Can you come up with a price to Dyno an IO and O-540D4A5 run on 10%
adulterated Oregon fuel and maybe E85 so everyone can chose their
engine
wisely. This is not about availability, this is about Greenies saying
AVGAS must help clean the environment and save Global Warming. Jerry
Cochran in his Subie began the call that the "Sky is Falling to the
EAA". The Tsunami hits next month.
Dave Martin, past President of OPA and past Editor of Kitplanes added
the impact ramification to LSA, STCed aircraft and other Rotax
propulsion systems. This issue will clearly affect all kit builders,
not just us RV-10 bangers. Hard data is always best and maybe you will
direct me to contract with George Braly. "Carbon credits" like Albert
Gore uses might have made more sense to the public.
John Cox
VP for Legislative Affairs - Oregon Pilots Association
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BPA
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 6:05 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
Guys,
You need to keep your taxi tests (and all ground runs) as short as
possible. On the ground there is NOT enough cooling air to keep the
CHT's in check. Several 5-10 minute tests are much better than a couple
of lengthy runs around the airport. Need to keep CHT's in the 300-330
range while testing. Many a new/overhauled engine have had the jugs
removed to 'deglaze' the barrels because of extensive ground running.
We test new engines for 1 1/2 hours on our dynamometer. Additional time
is required whether it be on the dyno or in the airplane. Keep in mind
however that extensive ground running at any time can lead to what we
call coked cylinders.
When a cylinder gets hot, the oil 'cooks' and adheres itself to the
barrel. When this happens, instead of the rings scraping the oil off
the
barrel (to dissipate the generated heat and to lubricate), the rings
hydroplane over the barrel. This leads to blo-by, dirty oil, and a lot
of wiping the belly down on your bird.
Allen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
So how do the engine builders cool the engines when they run them on
their test stands for prolonged periods? The BPE dyno is inside IIRC,
and I recall numerous pictures of engine 'test cells' where the engine
is mounted on a trailer or the back of a truck. I'm not trying to be
argumentative, just trying to learn and understand. I think I'll give
Rhonda/Allen a shout and see if they've got any suggestions. Anybody
know how Aerosport does their test runs?
Deems
Kelly McMullen wrote:
> That is definitely one of the solutions I had in mind. I'd think 3
> hours would be the bare minimum to get the rings somewhat seated. I
> suppose doing high speed taxi tests where the engine got a few bursts
> of power, then was shut down immediately might be OK, as an
> alternative, with full cowling in place. Deems, I know you would not
> get adequate cooling without the cooling and some forward motion.
>
> On Nov 30, 2007 12:13 AM, Robin Marks <robin1@mrmoisture.com
> <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>> wrote:
>
> Kelly, Deem,
>
> You can categorize this under too little too late but I
negotiated
> with my engine builder to run my engine a total of 3 hours on the
> dyno instead of their standard 1.5 hours. I did this BEFORE I
sent
> in my deposit for the engine. I originally thought we agreed on 4
> hours but my contract said 3 so I asked if they could run it
> another hour since it was still on the stand. They said sure...
for
> $500/hour.
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 14
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| Subject: | Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
To the List:
This is a response from Monty regarding testing of Ethanol in engines
for aviation. He asked me to post it directly to the list.
Thanks!
Rhonda
"John:
A few years ago we did some ethanol tests including E-85, straight
ethanol, oxygenated fuel with ETBE, and some other tests. As far as
ethanol is concerned with the performance of the engine there was a
significant power loss when burning the same amount of ethanol in terms
of weight compared to av-gas.
Some facts: (not all)
Straight ethanol will not vaporize below 50 F. and an engine to be
operated on straight ethanol MUST be started with a more volatile fuel.
There are some vapor pressure issues with diluted av-gas, of which I
have forgotten the details. Ethanol-gas mixes MAY be harmful to fuel
hoses. This is a test which needs to be done. I am not sure what the
results would be.
Contrary to popular belief, ethanol fuels can be made to detonate.
Adding ethanol to av-gas (or mogas either) requires some strict quality
control on the ethanol product. I don't believe those controls are in
place. Av-gas is strictly controlled at the refinery level and I
seriously doubt that the refiners are going to add ethanol to av-gas
because of the potential of litigation in the event of a fuel related
accident. In the case of mogas there is not much to fear from the
attorneys because the failed vehicle just pulls to the side of the road.
A little bit different in an airplane.
The "greenies" have petitioned the EPA to do a study on the effects of
lead in av-gas with regard to the atmosphere. I guess your legislators
could not wait for the results of that study and "jumped the gun" trying
to force the issue? The legislatures in question have created a very
unsafe, if not illegal statute. Av-gas specifications are mandated by
the engine manufacturers and the whole set of certification regulations
is based on the fuel to be used. This includes the engine, its pumps,
airframe hoses, weight and balance issues (assuming ethanol is of a
different weight than av-gas), performance criteria, operational
ceilings, turbocharger materials, etc. In 10 words or less, the FAA
controls what fuels are suitable.
The costs to test for all the aspects of ethanol reduced fuels are
likely to be enormous. It may be a smart move by the aviation community
as a whole, to seek an injunction against this legislation until such
times as the testing required can be completed. This may take several
years.
I'll stay in touch and you do the same with me, please.
Monty Barrett
Barrett Precision Engines, Inc."
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 1:18 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
Allen, my tail is on fire here in Oregon for not having 20/20 Hindsight
vision on the poor job our state legislature just did for banning all
gasoline sales (both MOGAS and AVGAS) which does not contain at least
10% ethanol. They (the Greenies)want even more.
Can you come up with a price to Dyno an IO and O-540D4A5 run on 10%
adulterated Oregon fuel and maybe E85 so everyone can chose their engine
wisely. This is not about availability, this is about Greenies saying
AVGAS must help clean the environment and save Global Warming. Jerry
Cochran in his Subie began the call that the "Sky is Falling to the
EAA". The Tsunami hits next month.
Dave Martin, past President of OPA and past Editor of Kitplanes added
the impact ramification to LSA, STCed aircraft and other Rotax
propulsion systems. This issue will clearly affect all kit builders,
not just us RV-10 bangers. Hard data is always best and maybe you will
direct me to contract with George Braly. "Carbon credits" like Albert
Gore uses might have made more sense to the public.
John Cox
VP for Legislative Affairs - Oregon Pilots Association
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
Might I point out that your Oregon legislature has no jurisdiction over
aviation fuel. Zero. None, etc. Federal preemption over aviation is still
the law of the 50 states.
If 10% ethanol is added to current 100LL, it won't meet the specs for the
fuel, especially for vapor pressure, as that addition raises the vapor
pressure a fuel inch..so your 7.0 Avgas will be 8.0 give or take a tenth.
Second, the FAA has prohibited ethanol in fuel for all aircraft that don't
hold an STC to use it.
As Rhonda mentioned, ethanol is detrimental to our fuel systems, as the
gaskets in your carburetor/fuel injection, the O-rings in your valves, and
any rubber hoses in your system are all subject to attack by the ethanol.
Then any bare aluminum in your fuel tanks is subject to corrosion by the
ethanol.
In other words, your politicians stepped in a big pile of doo-doo and unless
they want the FAA on one side and Arthur Alan Wolk on the other side handing
them their head for lunch, they best undo it. Maybe the EAA should be
involved as well.
On 12/3/07, John W. Cox <johnwcox@pacificnw.com> wrote:
>
>
> Allen, my tail is on fire here in Oregon for not having 20/20 Hindsight
> vision on the poor job our state legislature just did for banning all
> gasoline sales (both MOGAS and AVGAS) which does not contain at least
> 10% ethanol. They (the Greenies)want even more.
>
> Can you come up with a price to Dyno an IO and O-540D4A5 run on 10%
> adulterated Oregon fuel and maybe E85 so everyone can chose their engine
> wisely. This is not about availability, this is about Greenies saying
> AVGAS must help clean the environment and save Global Warming. Jerry
> Cochran in his Subie began the call that the "Sky is Falling to the
> EAA". The Tsunami hits next month.
>
> Dave Martin, past President of OPA and past Editor of Kitplanes added
> the impact ramification to LSA, STCed aircraft and other Rotax
> propulsion systems. This issue will clearly affect all kit builders,
> not just us RV-10 bangers. Hard data is always best and maybe you will
> direct me to contract with George Braly. "Carbon credits" like Albert
> Gore uses might have made more sense to the public.
>
> John Cox
> VP for Legislative Affairs - Oregon Pilots Association
>
> -
Message 16
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| Subject: | Help requested with aileron alignment question/issue |
All,
I am trying to determine if I have a problem or not with my inboard or
outboard aileron bracket assembly. I was test fitting my first aileron
on my wing and noticed that when deflected down, my aileron brushes with
the upper skin, but only on the inboard portion of the aileron. On the
outboard portion of the aileron, it does not touch the skin. This does
not take place until the aileron is deflected about 4 inches downward at
the trailing edge. From what I have been able to find, this seems like
it exceeds what is needed during setup.
When I measure the distance from the trailing edge of the upper skin, to
the center of the bearing hole on the brackets, I get a difference of
about 1/8 inch; the outer bracket is further away. This is why my
inboard portion of the aileron touches (when extended down) and the
outboard does not. In researching this issue, I can see where it is
common for the flaps to rub. I just could not find any mention of
ailerons rubbing and even more so, that one side rubs (inboard) and the
other does not (outboard). I have checked each bracket to verify that
they are seated properly on the rear spar and the doublers. Both of my
wings measure out the same (ie. both inner brackets are closer than the
outer bracket).
For comparison purposes, I was wondering of one or more of you could
check and see if you have differences in this distance between the
outboard and inboard bracket bearings and the trailing edge of the upper
wing skin. I have also noticed that when the aileron is in the neutral
position, the inbound side of the aileron is slightly higher than the
skin. If I put a straight edge on the wing skin, the aileron holds it
up on the inbound side but on the outbound side, there is a slight gap
between the straight edge and the aileron.
Thanks in advance everyone,
Kent
Kent Forsythe
Mason, Ohio
40338 - Wings (done except lower skins) Control Surfaces (in progress)
Slow Build All The Way..and way...and way!
Message 17
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| Subject: | Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
Let's take it the next step Kelly to mandate MOGAS has 10% + Ethanol in
all 50 states. Now all of those Peterson and EAA STCed aircraft
refueling in Orygun will pass Ethanol through the lines, seals and over
the gaskets. Rotax requires not more than 50% Avgas to be added to
Mogas or extensive additional repair work is required.
Dave Martin (EAA 78011) representing the EAA will make the plea tomorrow
before this panel of idiots. These are politicians I have not voted
for, do not endorse and know little of the consequence of their action
to revenue collection reductions, negative mpact to tourism and economic
develop and aviation safety. We will soon be the Western Appalachia of
the US of A. There is a distinct possibility that one of the
politicians is the son of the acting Director of Aviation.
The Greenies are everywhere. Be vigilant out there. It is soon to be
an election year.
John (EAA 565497)
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
McMullen
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
Might I point out that your Oregon legislature has no jurisdiction over
aviation fuel. Zero. None, etc. Federal preemption over aviation is
still the law of the 50 states.
If 10% ethanol is added to current 100LL, it won't meet the specs for
the fuel, especially for vapor pressure, as that addition raises the
vapor pressure a fuel inch..so your 7.0 Avgas will be 8.0 give or take a
tenth. Second, the FAA has prohibited ethanol in fuel for all aircraft
that don't hold an STC to use it.
As Rhonda mentioned, ethanol is detrimental to our fuel systems, as the
gaskets in your carburetor/fuel injection, the O-rings in your valves,
and any rubber hoses in your system are all subject to attack by the
ethanol. Then any bare aluminum in your fuel tanks is subject to
corrosion by the ethanol.
In other words, your politicians stepped in a big pile of doo-doo and
unless they want the FAA on one side and Arthur Alan Wolk on the other
side handing them their head for lunch, they best undo it. Maybe the EAA
should be involved as well.
On 12/3/07, John W. Cox <johnwcox@pacificnw.com> wrote:
Allen, my tail is on fire here in Oregon for not having 20/20 Hindsight
vision on the poor job our state legislature just did for banning all
gasoline sales (both MOGAS and AVGAS) which does not contain at least
10% ethanol. They (the Greenies)want even more.
Can you come up with a price to Dyno an IO and O-540D4A5 run on 10%
adulterated Oregon fuel and maybe E85 so everyone can chose their engine
wisely. This is not about availability, this is about Greenies saying
AVGAS must help clean the environment and save Global Warming. Jerry
Cochran in his Subie began the call that the "Sky is Falling to the
EAA". The Tsunami hits next month.
Dave Martin, past President of OPA and past Editor of Kitplanes added
the impact ramification to LSA, STCed aircraft and other Rotax
propulsion systems. This issue will clearly affect all kit builders,
not just us RV-10 bangers. Hard data is always best and maybe you will
direct me to contract with George Braly. "Carbon credits" like Albert
Gore uses might have made more sense to the public.
John Cox
VP for Legislative Affairs - Oregon Pilots Association
-
Message 18
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| Subject: | Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
The phrases were snuck in at the last minute after being passed by the
House (March 1st), forwarded to the Senate (June 21st) and signed by the
Governor (July 3rd). The bill was introduced by the Director of the
Oregon State, Department of Energy (January 8th) to promote ethanol
production from Oregon grain products. These types of administrative
not legislative introductions score extremely high with a Passage Rate.
Bill introduced by duly elected legislator have an extremely low Passage
Rate.
No one said a word until a vigilant EAA member in an adjacent state,
flying an alternate powered RV whispered the "King is wearing no
clothes". Effective Date September 27. Promulgated into Public policy
next month. Even national EAA heard whisper after it was too late.
John C.
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
A couple of questions:
What studies did they do to show there are no issues with all the
current aircraft?
What effect do you all see with this if we want to fly our IO-540's out
there?
It really is too bad the special interest groups have so much power. I
don't know how they do it.
If they only knew the effect of 100LL vs. what other countries allow.
Pollution is a global problem and I can promise that 100LL is not the
issue. I've traveled the world in my oil and gas career and they need
to go visit a few third world countries. We are the leaders in burning
energy cleanly. I want clean air too but lets be smart about it.
Just wait til China starts driving cars, I can promise they won't have
the restrictions we have, and oil will blow through $100/bbl with ease.
I love the ads on TV that GM has: "I want to drive an electric car!"
And where are you going to get the electricity?
Sorry, stupidity bothers me. Just concerned about flying to OR now. I
do think this ethanol fad will be gone in 24 months when they find out
how much energy it takes to produce it and that we can't continue to
increase the production of it.
Go get em John!!! Talk some sense into them.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
----- Original Message ----
From: John W. Cox <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Sent: Monday, December 3, 2007 12:18:16 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
Allen, my tail is on fire here in Oregon for not having 20/20 Hindsight
vision on the poor job our state legislature just did for banning all
gasoline sales (both MOGAS and AVGAS) which does not contain at least
10% ethanol. They (the Greenies)want even more.
Can you come up with a price to Dyno an IO and O-540D4A5 run on 10%
adulterated Oregon fuel and maybe E85 so everyone can chose their engine
wisely. This is not about availability, this is about Greenies saying
AVGAS must help clean the environment and save Global Warming. Jerry
Cochran in his Subie began the call that the "Sky is Falling to the
EAA". The Tsunami hits next month.
Dave Martin, past President of OPA and past Editor of Kitplanes added
the impact ramification to LSA, STCed aircraft and other Rotax
propulsion systems. This issue will clearly affect all kit builders,
not just us RV-10 bangers. Hard data is always best and maybe you will
direct me to contract with George Braly. "Carbon credits" like Albert
Gore uses might have made more sense to the public.
John Cox
VP for Legislative Affairs - Oregon Pilots Association
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BPA
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 6:05 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
Guys,
You need to keep your taxi tests (and all ground runs) as short as
possible. On the ground there is NOT enough cooling air to keep the
CHT's in check. Several 5-10 minute tests are much better than a couple
of lengthy runs around the airport. Need to keep CHT's in the 300-330
range while testing. Many a new/overhauled engine have had the jugs
removed to 'deglaze' the barrels because of extensive ground running.
We test new engines for 1 1/2 hours on our dynamometer. Additional time
is required whether it be on the dyno or in the airplane. Keep in mind
however that extensive ground running at any time can lead to what we
call coked cylinders.
When a cylinder gets hot, the oil 'cooks' and adheres itself to the
barrel. When this happens, instead of the rings scraping the oil off the
barrel (to dissipate the generated heat and to lubricate), the rings
hydroplane over the barrel. This leads to blo-by, dirty oil, and a lot
of wiping the belly down on your bird.
Allen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
So how do the engine builders cool the engines when they run them on
their test stands for prolonged periods? The BPE dyno is inside IIRC,
and I recall numerous pictures of engine 'test cells' where the engine
is mounted on a trailer or the back of a truck. I'm not trying to be
argumentative, just trying to learn and understand. I think I'll give
Rhonda/Allen a shout and see if they've got any suggestions. Anybody
know how Aerosport does their test runs?
Deems
Kelly McMullen wrote:
> That is definitely one of the solutions I had in mind. I'd think 3
> hours would be the bare minimum to get the rings somewhat seated. I
> suppose doing high speed taxi tests where the engine got a few bursts
> of power, then was shut down immediately might be OK, as an
> alternative, with full cowling in place. Deems, I know you would not
> get adequate cooling without the cooling and some forward motion.
>
> On Nov 30, 2007 12:13 AM, Robin Marks <robin1@mrmoisture.com
> <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>> wrote:
>
> Kelly, Deem,
>
> You can categorize this under too little too late but I negotiated
> with my engine builder to run my engine a total of 3 hours on the
> dyno instead of their standard 1.5 hours. I did this BEFORE I
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Static Line Routing |
Turns out that what I missed is the fact that there is a close-out panel
on the right side of baggage bay. I thought it stayed open.
Thanks Bob!
Bill "too many meds to continue working tonight" Watson
40605
MauleDriver wrote:
>
> Does Van's document a static line routing in the plans? Especially a
> routing forward of the tailcone section.
>
> I've viewed a number of builder solutions for the tailcone section but
> haven't seen what people are doing forward of the tailcone - from the
> battery to the panel - and wherever else it needs to go (various air
> computers imbedded in any of the electronics).
>
> I'm trying to close up the baggage floor and this is one of the last
> of the lines that need to be buried underneath.
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
Well, I doubt that ethanol will be mandated nationwide, simply because there
isn't a viable production capacity at least until they solve cellulosic
ethanol, as there isn't enough corn and much of the environmental community
recognizes that corn derived ethanol at any higher than production levels is
an environmental disaster. Not to mention that it does very little to
increase overall fuel supplies.
Hmm, can we spell serious problems for LSA if Rotax really has a problem
with Avgas?
Where is the boating community on this? Can't imagine it causing anything
but trouble for fuel tanks and engines next to water.
On 12/3/07, John W. Cox <johnwcox@pacificnw.com> wrote:
>
> Let's take it the next step Kelly to mandate MOGAS has 10% + Ethanol in
> all 50 states. Now all of those Peterson and EAA STCed aircraft refueling
> in Orygun will pass Ethanol through the lines, seals and over the gaskets.
> Rotax requires not more than 50% Avgas to be added to Mogas or extensive
> additional repair work is required.
>
>
> Dave Martin (EAA 78011) representing the EAA will make the plea tomorrow
> before this panel of idiots. These are politicians I have not voted for, do
> not endorse and know little of the consequence of their action to revenue
> collection reductions, negative mpact to tourism and economic develop and
> aviation safety. We will soon be the Western Appalachia of the US of A.
> There is a distinct possibility that one of the politicians is the son of
> the acting Director of Aviation.
>
>
> The Greenies are everywhere. Be vigilant out there. It is soon to be an
> election year.
>
>
> John (EAA 565497)
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | AC registration time |
I thought that some of you would like to know how long it takes an AC
registration back from the FAA. I mailed my completed app on Nov 6
and the FAA mailed the form on Nov 26. I was expecting about 2
months. My RV-10 is now officially known as N475PV. In the mail,
along with the official registration, I got a separate mailing with
N475PV on the cover from Bruce's Custom Covers wondering if I might
be interested in a cover for my "new airplane." That must be a
record for information being sold and marketed.
Sheldon Olesen
40080
Less than 50 hours of actual construction left
Message 22
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| Subject: | "Innies" and "outies", step fairing |
What's the best way to turn an "outie" dent to an "innie" that is
easily fillable?
Has anyone tried to do a fairing around the the step as it protrudes
from the fuselage? If so, was it worth the effort?
Sheldon Olesen
40080
facing sanding and finishing hell
Message 23
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G'day all,
Vans has finally received their back ordered Unison Slick Start systems.
Was curious as to how many are going with this option and whether anyone
has a wiring diagram/installation manual so I can prepare for the
installation.
Cheers,
Ron
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Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
John, I saw on another list that the OR ethanol mandate was ONLY for Mogas,
not Avgas. Of course that still leaves all the STC'd folks and LSA folks in
trouble, as well as the marine folks. I'll have to ask what folks around my
home drome do, since we have 10% for all the winter months, mandatory, but
optional in the summer.
On 12/3/07, Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Well, I doubt that ethanol will be mandated nationwide, simply because
> there isn't a viable production capacity at least until they solve
> cellulosic ethanol, as there isn't enough corn and much of the environmental
> community recognizes that corn derived ethanol at any higher than production
> levels is an environmental disaster. Not to mention that it does very little
> to increase overall fuel supplies.
> Hmm, can we spell serious problems for LSA if Rotax really has a problem
> with Avgas?
> Where is the boating community on this? Can't imagine it causing anything
> but trouble for fuel tanks and engines next to water.
>
> On 12/3/07, John W. Cox <johnwcox@pacificnw.com> wrote:
> >
> > Let's take it the next step Kelly to mandate MOGAS has 10% + Ethanol in
> > all 50 states. Now all of those Peterson and EAA STCed aircraft refueling
> > in Orygun will pass Ethanol through the lines, seals and over the gaskets.
> > Rotax requires not more than 50% Avgas to be added to Mogas or extensive
> > additional repair work is required.
> >
> >
> >
> > Dave Martin (EAA 78011) representing the EAA will make the plea tomorrow
> > before this panel of idiots. These are politicians I have not voted for, do
> > not endorse and know little of the consequence of their action to revenue
> > collection reductions, negative mpact to tourism and economic develop and
> > aviation safety. We will soon be the Western Appalachia of the US of A.
> > There is a distinct possibility that one of the politicians is the son of
> > the acting Director of Aviation.
> >
> >
> >
> > The Greenies are everywhere. Be vigilant out there. It is soon to be
> > an election year.
> >
> >
> >
> > John (EAA 565497)
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Static Line Routing |
Myself and several other West Coast builders are running it along the right (co-pilot)
side. From what I have seen, most of us are running either 4 or 5 conduits
from the rear to the front. Two or three along each side with the static
line along the right side. The plans really force you to do this "pre-wiring"
work before you are really ready. You will probably need to cut a few holes. I
went and bought the Van's pre-wiring kit which is really a pretty good deal.
The wiring is all pre-measured and is really a good value for the electronic micro-cephalic.
I find that one of my three complaints about the great RV10 plans are :
1. the baggage and rear seat floors should be nut plated for work, electrical installation,
and inspections
2. the finish quality of the fiberglass cabin top/ doors - the quality of the
product is poor
3. The inner (fwd) sub instrument panel makes for a difficult avionics installation
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150310#150310
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: "Innies" and "outies", step fairing |
I have yet to see a good one. A few months back someone had a post describing how
to get the baggage door right. You might want to do a search. I hate it each
time I look at my badly fitting baggage door. I might rebuild it. They described
hoe they crimped the frame till it fit correctly
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150311#150311
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