Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:27 AM - Re: What is connected to your always on battery bus? (Tim Olson)
2. 06:11 AM - Slick Start (Dawson-Townsend,Timothy)
3. 06:45 AM - battery bus (Chris Hukill)
4. 06:55 AM - Re: Annual Price increase? (Pascal)
5. 08:15 AM - Re: Annual Price increase? (Kelly McMullen)
6. 08:54 AM - Re: Annual Price increase? (Kelly McMullen)
7. 01:34 PM - Re: Annual Price increase? (Patrick ONeill)
8. 02:14 PM - Re: Hartzell composite prop option (FlyerJumper)
9. 05:06 PM - Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) (Simon Barber)
10. 06:52 PM - fuel lines, tunnel to wing (Bob-tcw)
11. 07:38 PM - Re: fuel lines, tunnel to wing (John W. Cox)
12. 07:42 PM - Re: fuel lines, tunnel to wing (Ben Westfall)
13. 08:12 PM - Re: fuel lines, tunnel to wing (Kelly McMullen)
14. 08:38 PM - Re: fuel lines, tunnel to wing (Jesse Saint)
15. 08:46 PM - Re: fuel lines, tunnel to wing (David McNeill)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: What is connected to your always on battery bus? |
Yeah, without elec. ign., I don't know that I'd bother at all. As
for clocks, your instruments can give you GMT once GPS is locked
on, and these days, multiple systems have timers, so there really
isn't much need for a regular clock/timer anymore. Steve's
suggestion of a lighter outlet for charging things isn't too bad
either. I think thought that if I was doing that, I'd just add the
lighter outlet to the baggage bulkhead wall to keep that hot wire
short. Then you could charge items while you walk away for a
while. If I need to do pre-flight flight planning, I can usually
just turn on my e-bus and fire up what I need to.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
MauleDriver wrote:
>
> Thanks Tim - that was an answer I was looking for. With a dual
> batt/alt/bus design and no electronic ignition, I just can't figure out
> why I need one. Except for the glaring omission of the battery
> contactor trigger. And a clock.
>
> Bill
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
>>
>> I just have my lightspeed as switchable from the aux battery's
>> battery bus, to the main bus. That's the only item I put on
>> that battery bus. You can land fine with no flaps, so if you're
>> going to put anything else on it, the trim might be the one thing
>> worth doing. If you put lights on it, you may find yourself with
>> a dead battery from forgetting to turn off the lights. For me,
>> I don't mind only having lights with the master on...especially
>> since I have those electrical system independent click-lights
>> for the rear seats and baggage area that I can always turn on.
>> I know there are some people that love the idea of a battery
>> bus, but I love the idea of only super mission critical stuff
>> on it...and being able to turn it positively off. That's why
>> for me, it's just the lightspeed and nothing else...and even
>> one I start the engine, I switch that to the Main bus so that
>> when I power the airplane off and turn off the key, there's
>> now power to any ignition system.
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> MauleDriver wrote:
>>>
>>> I can't quite figure out what will end up going on my battery bus.
>>> At least other than a dome light or baggage light.. and then perhaps
>>> not.
>>>
>>> Please share what you are putting on your battery bus and in
>>> particular for you flyers, what did you put on yours and what do you
>>> recommend to future flyers
>>>
>>> My panel will probably be a dual Chelton with the standard goodies
>>> but I don't beleive the battery bus gets involved much there.
>>>
>>> Bill Watson
>>> Durham NC
>>> 40605
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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We wanted SlickStart for our Bendix retard (shower of sparks) magneto,
but low and behold, as part of Slick's "redesign" of the SlickStart,
they dropped the SS1002 model, which was for Bendix (non-Slick)
magnetos. Now they only support Slick mags, at least for retard
magnetos.
Most dealers don't stock SlickStart (instead shipping from factory), or
had expended their stock, but after much searching, I found possibly the
only remaining SS1002 Slick Start module in the world, in Germany.
Installing it soon . . .
TDT
40025
I love wheelpants!
Tim Dawson-Townsend
Aurora Flight Sciences
tdt@aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
Message 3
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I have a cigar lighter on my hot battery bus on my RV8, and I use it to
trickle charge the battery during long periods of non use. Just connect
a cigar lighter plug to a 1amp battery tender, and let it do it's thing.
Chris Hukill
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Annual Price increase? |
Did you call Van's and ask them?
----- Original Message -----
From: Kelly McMullen
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 8:27 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Annual Price increase?
Has anyone heard any rumblings about any increase this year? Is it
time to figure how much can order before New Years? Does Vans usually
shut down for some part of the Holidays? How early does one have to
order?
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Annual Price increase? |
I'm about to, but figured some folks here might have picked up something
from the rumor mill. Sometimes back channel info is very good.
On 12/5/07, Pascal <rv10builder@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> Did you call Van's and ask them?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 04, 2007 8:27 PM
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Annual Price increase?
>
> Has anyone heard any rumblings about any increase this year? Is it time to
> figure how much can order before New Years? Does Vans usually shut down for
> some part of the Holidays? How early does one have to order?
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Annual Price increase? |
Good news for those running a bit behind schedule. Vans says price increase
won't happen until Feb. 1, 2008.
On 12/5/07, Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'm about to, but figured some folks here might have picked up something
> from the rumor mill. Sometimes back channel info is very good.
>
> On 12/5/07, Pascal <rv10builder@verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> > Did you call Van's and ask them?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com>
> > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 04, 2007 8:27 PM
> > *Subject:* RV10-List: Annual Price increase?
> >
> > Has anyone heard any rumblings about any increase this year? Is it time
> > to figure how much can order before New Years? Does Vans usually shut down
> > for some part of the Holidays? How early does one have to order?
> >
> > *
> >
> > href="
> > http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> >
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">
> > http://forums.matronics.com
> >
> > *
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> >
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com
> >
> > *
> >
> >
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Annual Price increase? |
That is great news. I wanted to have the cabin top fitted and installed
before the finish kit shows up. I'm at the point now where space management
is the biggest factor. That timing should work out perfect.
Thanks much for passing the news along!
Best Regards,
Patrick #40715 N690CT
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Annual Price increase?
Good news for those running a bit behind schedule. Vans says price increase
won't happen until Feb. 1, 2008.
On 12/5/07, Kelly McMullen < apilot2@gmail.com <mailto:apilot2@gmail.com> >
wrote:
I'm about to, but figured some folks here might have picked up something
from the rumor mill. Sometimes back channel info is very good.
On 12/5/07, Pascal <rv10builder@verizon.net> wrote:
Did you call Van's and ask them?
----- Original Message -----
From: Kelly <mailto:apilot2@gmail.com> McMullen
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 8:27 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Annual Price increase?
Has anyone heard any rumblings about any increase this year? Is it time to
figure how much can order before New Years? Does Vans usually shut down for
some part of the Holidays? How early does one have to order?
href=" <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navig
ator?RV10-List
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
href="http://forums.matronics.com"> <http://forums.matronics.com>
<http://forums.matronics.com>
http://forums.matronics.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Hartzell composite prop option |
Debbie Dewey's -10 has been flying with the Aerocomposites 3-blade for well over a year now. It flew in the 2006 AirVenture Cup http://www.airventurecup.com/racers/results/2006results.html
--------
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150648#150648
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
The GAMI PRISM ignition system supposedly lets a TIO-540 run with mogas
without problems - I don't know if it also works on blended mogas. The
key is the ignition system senses the cylinder pressure build up and
decay and adjusts the spark timing according to what is acutally
happening in the cylinder, not according to a pre-fixed table. The
beauty of this is it automatically adjusts to differences in fuel, or
other unmeasured variables like humidity that affect how quickly the
burn happens. Some modern cars do the same thing, without using the
pressure sensors that GAMI use (which are very expensive) - they use the
spark plug itself as a sensor, putting a voltage across the gap after
ignition and measuring the small current flow through the flame. It's
called ion-sensing. As far as I can tell no aircraft ignition systems
use ion-sensing yet - but this is a potential way to solve some of the
fuel problems cheaply. Of course this does nothing for vapor lock or ice
issues.
GAMI's PRISM (apparently not yet available, but being certified):
http://www.gami.com/prism.html
A paper on ion sensing in cars:
http://www.fs.isy.liu.se/~larer/Projects/main.html
Simon
Kelly McMullen wrote:
> Ethanol isn't like lead. If a tank truck took a load of gasahol, then
> a load of straight mogas, the contamination wouldn't be enough to
> worry about. Also, it doesn't matter where you are, your nearest bulk
> plant has mogas without any ethanol, because they can't put ethanol in
> the pipelines, it has to come by rail or tank truck. Whether they
> would sell you any, for your "yacht", I don't know.
> That was what used to do in Alaska...just use somebody's boat
> registration number, go to bulk plant with a 100 gal tank in back of
> pickup, and fill it with straight mogas.
>
> On 12/4/07, *James K Hovis* <james.k.hovis@gmail.com
> <mailto:james.k.hovis@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> <james.k.hovis@gmail.com <mailto:james.k.hovis@gmail.com>>
>
> You're right. I'm afraid delivering straight MOGAS (no ethanol) will
> end up in the same boat, only a few suppliers willing to dedicate a
> truck or two to deliver to the few airports who sell MOGAS (as
> compared to the ethanol-gas delivered to the thousands of filling
> stations). The price could end up the same as Avgas. But at least
> premium gasoline in Missouri won't be required to have ethanol. You'll
> probably have to ask to see if the premium in the tanks at the filling
> station does or doesn't have ethanol. Think the $5 an hour clerk will
> know???
>
> Kevin H.
>
> On 12/4/07, GRANSCOTT@aol.com <mailto:GRANSCOTT@aol.com>
> <GRANSCOTT@aol.com <mailto:GRANSCOTT@aol.com>> wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 12/4/2007 9:30:02 AM Central Standard Time,
> > james.k.hovis@gmail.com <mailto:james.k.hovis@gmail.com> writes:
> >
> > Then again, if the fuel trucks are carrying blended fuel, won't
> that
> > contaminate straight MOGAS destined for the local airports? Or
> are the
> > fuel vendors going to have to use separate trucks to deliver
> MOGAS to
> > airports same as they do now for Avgas? I don't think so. The
> supply
> > of "clean" MOGAS at Missouri airports will dry up. My local
> airport
> > has a pump and tank for 87 MOGAS.
> >
> >
> >
> > Kevin don't know how your gas is delivered but generally because the
> > tankers
> > are carrying leaded gas for 100LL they cannot use those tanks
> for any other
> > product, thus it's my understanding that these tank wagons are
> dedicated
> > tanks...that's another reason we pay extra for aviation fuel.
> >
> > P
> >
> >
> >
> > **************************************Check out AOL's list of
> 2007's hottest
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 10
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| Subject: | fuel lines, tunnel to wing |
Over the last couple of weeks we had a thread on flexible fuel lines and
the Van's hard tubing lines. I've made my choice and decided to
machine bushings to allow the use of standard bulkhead fittings at the
tunnel and wing root. I've added a photo gallery on this on our web
site. Here's the direct link. Just scroll to the bottom of the page
on this link
http://www.tcwtech.com/RV-10%20construction%20project.htm
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies
.
Message 11
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| Subject: | fuel lines, tunnel to wing |
Flexible fuel lines are exactly the kind of consumable that must be
periodically replaced in all aircraft (based on date of product
manufacture) and are subject to the ravages of Ethanol mandated into
gasoline. We need to hear Dick VanGrunsven weigh in on Oregon's new
bill - HB2210B. Numerous states were approached by Greenies at the same
time (Michigan, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania). Oregon's Department of
Agriculture just had a meeting yesterday and admitted a poorly crafted
and detrimental piece of legislation and yet the freight train is still
coming down the tracks next month.
Choose those lines wisely. Know if the VAN supplied fuel quantity
sending unit gaskets are susceptible to Ethanol laden gasoline products
in our tanks. The Help Desk at VANS needs to hear your concerns. GAMIs
PRISM product remains years from availability to help with ignition
timing control.
John Cox - 40600
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob-tcw
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 6:50 PM
Subject: RV10-List: fuel lines, tunnel to wing
Over the last couple of weeks we had a thread on flexible fuel lines and
the Van's hard tubing lines. I've made my choice and decided to
machine bushings to allow the use of standard bulkhead fittings at the
tunnel and wing root. I've added a photo gallery on this on our web
site. Here's the direct link. Just scroll to the bottom of the page
on this link
http://www.tcwtech.com/RV-10%20construction%20project.htm
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies
.
Message 12
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| Subject: | fuel lines, tunnel to wing |
I have been fretting over the fuel line installation lately and I too have
considered installing standard bulkhead fittings in some similar fashion.
The one thing that has kept me from making up my mind and doing this is the
following from the 43.13. I don't think this was mentioned in the last go
around on fuel lines so I thought I would bring it up.
Chapter 8, Section 3, Paragraph 8-31, part c Alignment states:
"Never install a straight length of tubing between two rigidly mounted
fittings. Always incorporate at least one bend between such fittings to
absorb strain caused by vibration and temperature changes."
Does the fitting in the tunnel wall qualify as a rigidly mounted? If so
does anyone "in the know" know what qualifies as a proper bend? I am
wondering if this is the primary reason for the way Vans has done it without
fittings? I'm curious of others thoughts.
Ben Westfall
#40579
PDX
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob-tcw
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 6:50 PM
Subject: RV10-List: fuel lines, tunnel to wing
Over the last couple of weeks we had a thread on flexible fuel lines and the
Van's hard tubing lines. I've made my choice and decided to machine
bushings to allow the use of standard bulkhead fittings at the tunnel and
wing root. I've added a photo gallery on this on our web site. Here's
the direct link. Just scroll to the bottom of the page on this link
http://www.tcwtech.com/RV-10%20construction%20project.htm
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies
.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: fuel lines, tunnel to wing |
John,
I don't know why there is much thinking of using mogas in an RV. Most
have relatively high compression pistons requiring at least 91/96 octane
avgas, which is somewhere around 96-98 pump octane mogas...pretty
unobtainable. 92 octane mogas is likely to be okay if one is careful not
to push the timing, etc.
Also, I don't know about the current formulations of PRC, but the PRC
compounds used in the '60s model Mooneys won't stand up to the aromatics
in mogas and turns to leaking mush. I saw one such plane that the owner
pretty much had to convert to bladders because of his illicit use of
premium mogas in 180hp Mooney.
So, I'd worry more about the PRC with mogas than having to replace any
flex lines. One could obtain teflon flex lines that would tolerate any
hydrocarbon, with no life limit. Parker 124J is one variety.
John W. Cox wrote:
>
> Flexible fuel lines are exactly the kind of consumable that must be
> periodically replaced in all aircraft (based on date of product
> manufacture) and are subject to the ravages of Ethanol mandated into
> gasoline. We need to hear Dick VanGrunsven weigh in on Oregons new
> bill HB2210B. Numerous states were approached by Greenies at the
> same time (Michigan, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania). Oregons Department
> of Agriculture just had a meeting yesterday and admitted a poorly
> crafted and detrimental piece of legislation and yet the freight train
> is still coming down the tracks next month.
>
> Choose those lines wisely. Know if the VAN supplied fuel quantity
> sending unit gaskets are susceptible to Ethanol laden gasoline
> products in our tanks. The Help Desk at VANS needs to hear your
> concerns. GAMIs PRISM product remains years from availability to help
> with ignition timing control.
>
> John Cox - 40600
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: fuel lines, tunnel to wing |
We usually rivet in a little plate over the hold in the tunnel wall
and drill the hole the size needed for the fitting, then use a washer
like in the firewall. The line from there all the way to the tank is
very easy because it just has two 90 degree bends in it. This keeps
the connections down, keeps all rigid lines, and avoids the rigid line
without bends between two fixed fittings.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Dec 5, 2007, at 10:40 PM, Ben Westfall wrote:
> I have been fretting over the fuel line installation lately and I
> too have considered installing standard bulkhead fittings in some
> similar fashion. The one thing that has kept me from making up my
> mind and doing this is the following from the 43.13. I don=92t think
> this was mentioned in the last go around on fuel lines so I thought
> I would bring it up.
>
> Chapter 8, Section 3, Paragraph 8-31, part c Alignment states:
>
> =93Never install a straight length of tubing between two rigidly
> mounted fittings. Always incorporate at least one bend between such
> fittings to absorb strain caused by vibration and temperature
> changes.=94
>
> Does the fitting in the tunnel wall qualify as a rigidly mounted?
> If so does anyone =93in the know=94 know what qualifies as a proper
> bend? I am wondering if this is the primary reason for the way Vans
> has done it without fittings? I=92m curious of others thoughts.
>
> Ben Westfall
> #40579
> PDX
>
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> ] On Behalf Of Bob-tcw
> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 6:50 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: fuel lines, tunnel to wing
>
> Over the last couple of weeks we had a thread on flexible fuel lines
> and the Van's hard tubing lines. I've made my choice and decided
> to machine bushings to allow the use of standard bulkhead fittings
> at the tunnel and wing root. I've added a photo gallery on this
> on our web site. Here's the direct link. Just scroll to the
> bottom of the page on this link
>
> http://www.tcwtech.com/RV-10%20construction%20project.htm
>
> Bob Newman
> TCW Technologies
>
>
> .
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | fuel lines, tunnel to wing |
One thing to consider is that most of the tubing around the fuel selector
already has some bends in each section; additionally the fixed fittings are
also aluminum and fixed in aluminum, so they all have the same coefficient
of linear expansion; They will expand together and shrink together.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 8:40 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: fuel lines, tunnel to wing
I have been fretting over the fuel line installation lately and I too have
considered installing standard bulkhead fittings in some similar fashion.
The one thing that has kept me from making up my mind and doing this is the
following from the 43.13. I don't think this was mentioned in the last go
around on fuel lines so I thought I would bring it up.
Chapter 8, Section 3, Paragraph 8-31, part c Alignment states:
"Never install a straight length of tubing between two rigidly mounted
fittings. Always incorporate at least one bend between such fittings to
absorb strain caused by vibration and temperature changes."
Does the fitting in the tunnel wall qualify as a rigidly mounted? If so
does anyone "in the know" know what qualifies as a proper bend? I am
wondering if this is the primary reason for the way Vans has done it without
fittings? I'm curious of others thoughts.
Ben Westfall
#40579
PDX
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob-tcw
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 6:50 PM
Subject: RV10-List: fuel lines, tunnel to wing
Over the last couple of weeks we had a thread on flexible fuel lines and the
Van's hard tubing lines. I've made my choice and decided to machine
bushings to allow the use of standard bulkhead fittings at the tunnel and
wing root. I've added a photo gallery on this on our web site. Here's
the direct link. Just scroll to the bottom of the page on this link
http://www.tcwtech.com/RV-10%20construction%20project.htm
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies
.
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