Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:12 AM - Matronics List Fund Raiser - 2007 List of Contributors (Matt Dralle)
2. 05:18 AM - Re: fuel lines, tunnel to wing (linn Walters)
3. 05:38 AM - Re: fuel lines, tunnel to wing (linn Walters)
4. 06:18 AM - Our friend Al (Kent Ogden)
5. 07:18 AM - Re: Our friend Al (Chris Johnston)
6. 08:01 AM - Re: Our friend Al (James Hein)
7. 09:03 AM - Re: Our friend Al (John Gonzalez)
8. 09:35 AM - BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS (David McNeill)
9. 09:48 AM - Re: fuel lines, tunnel to wing (MauleDriver)
10. 10:05 AM - Re: BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS (Tim Olson)
11. 11:12 AM - Re: BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS (Jesse Saint)
12. 11:22 AM - Re: BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS (Deems Davis)
13. 11:44 AM - Re: BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS (Michael Kraus)
14. 11:56 AM - Re: fuel lines, tunnel to wing (Bob Newman)
15. 12:05 PM - Re: BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS (Jesse Saint)
16. 12:51 PM - closing up the bottom wing skin. (John Gonzalez)
17. 01:08 PM - Re: BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS (speckter@comcast.net)
18. 01:44 PM - Re: closing up the bottom wing skin. (Mark Ritter)
19. 01:48 PM - Re: closing up the bottom wing skin. (Tim Olson)
20. 01:50 PM - Re: closing up the bottom wing skin. (orchidman)
21. 01:56 PM - Aerosport Testimonial - long (Tim Olson)
22. 02:09 PM - Re: Re: closing up the bottom wing skin. (Jae Chang)
23. 02:12 PM - Re: closing up the bottom wing skin. (McGANN, Ron)
24. 02:26 PM - Re: closing up the bottom wing skin. (Thane States)
25. 02:48 PM - Re: Re: closing up the bottom wing skin. (Tim Olson)
26. 02:50 PM - Re: Re: closing up the bottom wing skin. (Ben Westfall)
27. 02:54 PM - Re: closing up the bottom wing skin. (Jeff Carpenter)
28. 03:09 PM - Re: BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS (Scott Schmidt)
29. 03:52 PM - Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long (Dj Merrill)
30. 04:59 PM - Re: closing up the bottom wing skin. (Jesse Saint)
31. 05:13 PM - Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long (Scott Schmidt)
32. 05:15 PM - Re: closing up the bottom wing skin. (David McNeill)
33. 06:13 PM - Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long (Dj Merrill)
34. 06:22 PM - Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long (Pascal)
35. 06:26 PM - GPS on PDA/Phones (McGANN, Ron)
36. 06:55 PM - Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long (Tim Olson)
37. 07:05 PM - Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long (Jesse Saint)
38. 08:43 PM - Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long (Dj Merrill)
39. 09:08 PM - Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long (Perry, Phil)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Matronics List Fund Raiser - 2007 List of Contributors |
Dear Listers,
I would like to thank everyone that made a Contribution in support of the Lists
this year! It was really nice to hear all great comments people had regarding
the Lists! As I have said many times before, running these Lists is a labor
of love. Your generosity during the List Fund Raiser underscores the great sentiments
people have made regarding the Lists.
If you haven't yet made a Contribution in support of this year's Fund Raiser please
feel free to do so. The great List Fund Raiser gifts will be available on
the Contribution site for just a little while longer, so hurry and make your
Contribution and get your great gift! Once again, the URL for the Contribution
web site is:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ), Jon Croke of Homebuilt HELP ( http://www.homebuilthelp.com ) and Bob Nuckolls of AeroElectric ( http://www.aeroelectric.com ) for their extremely generous support during this year's Fund Raiser through the contribution of discounted merchandise. These are great guys that support the aviation industry and I encourage each and every Lister to have a look at their products. Thank you Andy, Jon and Bob!! Your support is very much appreciated!
And finally, below you will find a web link to the 2007 List of Contributors current
as of 12/6/07! Have a look at this list of names as these are the people
that make all of these List services possible! I can't thank each of you enough
for your support and great feedback during this year's Fund Raiser!
THANK YOU!
http://www.matronics.com/loc/2007.html
I will be shipping out all of the gifts in the next few weeks and hope to have
everything out by the end of the month. In most cases, gifts will be shipped
via US Postal Service.
Once again, thank you for making this year's List Fund Raiser successful!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: fuel lines, tunnel to wing |
John W. Cox wrote:
> Flexible fuel lines are exactly the kind of consumable that must be
> periodically replaced in all aircraft (based on date of product
> manufacture) and are subject to the ravages of Ethanol mandated into
> gasoline.
>
The steel braided, teflon lined hose should be rather immune to
ethanol. Or any other 'new' additive to gasoline ...... or 100LL
Linn
do not archive
> We need to hear Dick VanGrunsven weigh in on Oregon's new bill -
> HB2210B. Numerous states were approached by Greenies at the same time
> (Michigan, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania). Oregon's Department of
> Agriculture just had a meeting yesterday and admitted a poorly crafted
> and detrimental piece of legislation and yet the freight train is
> still coming down the tracks next month.
>
>
>
> Choose those lines wisely. Know if the VAN supplied fuel quantity
> sending unit gaskets are susceptible to Ethanol laden gasoline
> products in our tanks. The Help Desk at VANS needs to hear your
> concerns. GAMIs PRISM product remains years from availability to help
> with ignition timing control.
>
>
>
> John Cox - 40600
>
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: fuel lines, tunnel to wing |
Ben Westfall wrote:
> I have been fretting over the fuel line installation lately and I too
> have considered installing standard bulkhead fittings in some similar
> fashion. The one thing that has kept me from making up my mind and
> doing this is the following from the 43.13. I don't think this was
> mentioned in the last go around on fuel lines so I thought I would
> bring it up.
>
>
>
> Chapter 8, Section 3, Paragraph 8-31, part c Alignment states:
>
>
>
> "Never install a straight length of tubing between two rigidly mounted
> fittings. Always incorporate at least one bend between such fittings
> to absorb strain caused by vibration and temperature changes."
>
>
>
> Does the fitting in the tunnel wall qualify as a rigidly mounted?
>
Yes.
> If so does anyone "in the know" know what qualifies as a proper bend?
>
Strain relief for hard tubing is usually a 360 degree loop. The biggest
problem is accurately making the tubing so that no tension or
compression forces are placed on the tubing. That will cause premature
cracking of the hard tubing. For flexible (read hoses) tubing, a little
extra length is sufficient. No tension allowed, however.
> I am wondering if this is the primary reason for the way Vans has
> done it without fittings?
>
Reading Vans mind has been tough for me. It could be that making the
tubing one single part is time consuming and helps qualify the kit for
the 51% rule.
Linn
do not archive
> I'm curious of others thoughts.
>
>
>
> Ben Westfall
>
> #40579
>
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Here's something a little different. This is from the online CRC Handbook
of Chemistry and Physics. There is even an aircraft reference! All about
our favorite element involved in building an RV.Kentdo not archive Aluminum *
(L. alumen, alum), Al; at. wt. 26.9815386(8); at.
no. 13; m.p. 660.32*C; b.p. 2519*C; sp. gr. 2.6989 (20*C); valence
3. The ancient Greeks and Romans used alum in medicine
as an astringent, and as a mordant in dyeing. In 1761 de
Morveau proposed the name alumine for the base in alum,
and Lavoisier, in 1787, thought this to be the oxide of a still
undiscovered metal. Wohler is generally credited with having
isolated the metal in 1827, although an impure form was prepared
by Oersted two years earlier. In 1807, Davy proposed
the name alumium for the metal, undiscovered at that time,
and later agreed to change it to aluminum. Shortly thereafter,
the name aluminium was adopted to conform with the *ium*
ending of most elements, and this spelling is now in use elsewhere
in the world. Aluminium was also the accepted spelling
in the U.S. until 1925, at which time the American Chemical
Society officially decided to use the name aluminum thereafter
in their publications. The method of obtaining aluminum
metal by the electrolysis of alumina dissolved in cryolite was
discovered in 1886 by Hall in the U.S. and at about the same
time by Heroult in France. Cryolite, a natural ore found in
Greenland, is no longer widely used in commercial production,
but has been replaced by an artificial mixture of sodium,
aluminum, and calcium fluorides. Bauxite, an impure hydrated
oxide ore, is found in large deposits in Jamaica, Australia,
Suriname, Guyana, Russia, Arkansas, and elsewhere. The
Bayer process is most commonly used today to refine bauxite
so it can be accommodated in the Hall*Heroult refining
process used to make most aluminum. Aluminum can now
be produced from clay, but the process is not economically
feasible at present. Aluminum is the most abundant metal to
be found in the Earth*s crust (8.1%), but is never found free
in nature. In addition to the minerals mentioned above, it is
found in feldspars, granite, and in many other common minerals.
Twenty-two isotopes and isomers are known. Natural
aluminum is made of one isotope, 27Al. Pure aluminum, a silvery-
white metal, possesses many desirable characteristics.
It is light, nontoxic, has a pleasing appearance, can easily be
formed, machined, or cast, has a high thermal conductivity,
and has excellent corrosion resistance. It is nonmagnetic and
nonsparking, stands second among metals in the scale of malleability,
and sixth in ductility. It is extensively used for kitchen
utensils, outside building decoration, and in thousands of industrial
applications where a strong, light, easily constructed
material is needed. Although its electrical conductivity is only
about 60% that of copper, it is used in electrical transmission
lines because of its light weight. Pure aluminum is soft and
lacks strength, but it can be alloyed with small amounts of
copper, magnesium, silicon, manganese, and other elements
to impart a variety of useful properties. These alloys are of
vital importance in the construction of modern aircraft and
rockets. Aluminum, evaporated in a vacuum, forms a highly
reflective coating for both visible light and radiant heat. These
coatings soon form a thin layer of the protective oxide and do
not deteriorate as do silver coatings. They have found application
in coatings for telescope mirrors, in making decorative
paper, packages, toys, and in many other uses. The compounds
of greatest importance are aluminum oxide, the sulfate, and
the soluble sulfate with potassium (alum). The oxide, alumina,
occurs naturally as ruby, sapphire, corundum, and emery, and
is used in glassmaking and refractories. Synthetic ruby and
sapphire have found application in the construction of lasersfor producing
coherent light. In 1852, the price of aluminum
was about $1200/kg, and just before Hall*s discovery in 1886,
about $25/kg. The price rapidly dropped to 60* and has been
as low as 33*/kg. The price in December 2001 was about 64*/
lb or $1.40/kg.
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
i bet there isn't one that says "our friend fiberglass".
cj
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Kent Ogden
Sent: Thu 12/6/2007 6:15 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Our friend Al
Here's something a little different. This is from the online CRC
Handbook
of Chemistry and Physics. There is even an aircraft reference! All
about
our favorite element involved in building an RV.Kentdo not archive
Aluminum *
(L. alumen, alum), Al; at. wt. 26.9815386(8); at.
no. 13; m.p. 660.32*C; b.p. 2519*C; sp. gr. 2.6989 (20*C); valence
3. The ancient Greeks and Romans used alum in medicine
as an astringent, and as a mordant in dyeing. In 1761 de
Morveau proposed the name alumine for the base in alum,
and Lavoisier, in 1787, thought this to be the oxide of a still
undiscovered metal. Wohler is generally credited with having
isolated the metal in 1827, although an impure form was prepared
by Oersted two years earlier. In 1807, Davy proposed
the name alumium for the metal, undiscovered at that time,
and later agreed to change it to aluminum. Shortly thereafter,
the name aluminium was adopted to conform with the *ium*
ending of most elements, and this spelling is now in use elsewhere
in the world. Aluminium was also the accepted spelling
in the U.S. until 1925, at which time the American Chemical
Society officially decided to use the name aluminum thereafter
in their publications. The method of obtaining aluminum
metal by the electrolysis of alumina dissolved in cryolite was
discovered in 1886 by Hall in the U.S. and at about the same
time by Heroult in France. Cryolite, a natural ore found in
Greenland, is no longer widely used in commercial production,
but has been replaced by an artificial mixture of sodium,
aluminum, and calcium fluorides. Bauxite, an impure hydrated
oxide ore, is found in large deposits in Jamaica, Australia,
Suriname, Guyana, Russia, Arkansas, and elsewhere. The
Bayer process is most commonly used today to refine bauxite
so it can be accommodated in the Hall*Heroult refining
process used to make most aluminum. Aluminum can now
be produced from clay, but the process is not economically
feasible at present. Aluminum is the most abundant metal to
be found in the Earth*s crust (8.1%), but is never found free
in nature. In addition to the minerals mentioned above, it is
found in feldspars, granite, and in many other common minerals.
Twenty-two isotopes and isomers are known. Natural
aluminum is made of one isotope, 27Al. Pure aluminum, a silvery-
white metal, possesses many desirable characteristics.
It is light, nontoxic, has a pleasing appearance, can easily be
formed, machined, or cast, has a high thermal conductivity,
and has excellent corrosion resistance. It is nonmagnetic and
nonsparking, stands second among metals in the scale of malleability,
and sixth in ductility. It is extensively used for kitchen
utensils, outside building decoration, and in thousands of industrial
applications where a strong, light, easily constructed
material is needed. Although its electrical conductivity is only
about 60% that of copper, it is used in electrical transmission
lines because of its light weight. Pure aluminum is soft and
lacks strength, but it can be alloyed with small amounts of
copper, magnesium, silicon, manganese, and other elements
to impart a variety of useful properties. These alloys are of
vital importance in the construction of modern aircraft and
rockets. Aluminum, evaporated in a vacuum, forms a highly
reflective coating for both visible light and radiant heat. These
coatings soon form a thin layer of the protective oxide and do
not deteriorate as do silver coatings. They have found application
in coatings for telescope mirrors, in making decorative
paper, packages, toys, and in many other uses. The compounds
of greatest importance are aluminum oxide, the sulfate, and
the soluble sulfate with potassium (alum). The oxide, alumina,
occurs naturally as ruby, sapphire, corundum, and emery, and
is used in glassmaking and refractories. Synthetic ruby and
sapphire have found application in the construction of lasersfor
producing
coherent light. In 1852, the price of aluminum
was about $1200/kg, and just before Hall*s discovery in 1886,
about $25/kg. The price rapidly dropped to 60* and has been
as low as 33*/kg. The price in December 2001 was about 64*/
lb or $1.40/kg.
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Our friend Al |
"our fiend fiberglass"
There, I corrected it for ya CJ.
-Jim 40384
Chris Johnston wrote:
>i bet there isn't one that says "our friend fiberglass".
>
>cj
>do not archive
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Kent Ogden
>Sent: Thu 12/6/2007 6:15 AM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: Our friend Al
>
>Here's something a little different. This is from the online CRC Handbook
>of Chemistry and Physics. There is even an aircraft reference! All about
>our favorite element involved in building an RV.Kentdo not archive Aluminum *
>(L. alumen, alum), Al; at. wt. 26.9815386(8); at.
>no. 13; m.p. 660.32*C; b.p. 2519*C; sp. gr. 2.6989 (20*C); valence
>3. The ancient Greeks and Romans used alum in medicine
>as an astringent, and as a mordant in dyeing. In 1761 de
>Morveau proposed the name alumine for the base in alum,
>and Lavoisier, in 1787, thought this to be the oxide of a still
>undiscovered metal. Wohler is generally credited with having
>isolated the metal in 1827, although an impure form was prepared
>by Oersted two years earlier. In 1807, Davy proposed
>the name alumium for the metal, undiscovered at that time,
>and later agreed to change it to aluminum. Shortly thereafter,
>the name aluminium was adopted to conform with the *ium*
>ending of most elements, and this spelling is now in use elsewhere
>in the world. Aluminium was also the accepted spelling
>in the U.S. until 1925, at which time the American Chemical
>Society officially decided to use the name aluminum thereafter
>in their publications. The method of obtaining aluminum
>metal by the electrolysis of alumina dissolved in cryolite was
>discovered in 1886 by Hall in the U.S. and at about the same
>time by Heroult in France. Cryolite, a natural ore found in
>Greenland, is no longer widely used in commercial production,
>but has been replaced by an artificial mixture of sodium,
>aluminum, and calcium fluorides. Bauxite, an impure hydrated
>oxide ore, is found in large deposits in Jamaica, Australia,
>Suriname, Guyana, Russia, Arkansas, and elsewhere. The
>Bayer process is most commonly used today to refine bauxite
>so it can be accommodated in the Hall*Heroult refining
>process used to make most aluminum. Aluminum can now
>be produced from clay, but the process is not economically
>feasible at present. Aluminum is the most abundant metal to
>be found in the Earth*s crust (8.1%), but is never found free
>in nature. In addition to the minerals mentioned above, it is
>found in feldspars, granite, and in many other common minerals.
>Twenty-two isotopes and isomers are known. Natural
>aluminum is made of one isotope, 27Al. Pure aluminum, a silvery-
>white metal, possesses many desirable characteristics.
>It is light, nontoxic, has a pleasing appearance, can easily be
>formed, machined, or cast, has a high thermal conductivity,
>and has excellent corrosion resistance. It is nonmagnetic and
>nonsparking, stands second among metals in the scale of malleability,
>and sixth in ductility. It is extensively used for kitchen
>utensils, outside building decoration, and in thousands of industrial
>applications where a strong, light, easily constructed
>material is needed. Although its electrical conductivity is only
>about 60% that of copper, it is used in electrical transmission
>lines because of its light weight. Pure aluminum is soft and
>lacks strength, but it can be alloyed with small amounts of
>copper, magnesium, silicon, manganese, and other elements
>to impart a variety of useful properties. These alloys are of
>vital importance in the construction of modern aircraft and
>rockets. Aluminum, evaporated in a vacuum, forms a highly
>reflective coating for both visible light and radiant heat. These
>coatings soon form a thin layer of the protective oxide and do
>not deteriorate as do silver coatings. They have found application
>in coatings for telescope mirrors, in making decorative
>paper, packages, toys, and in many other uses. The compounds
>of greatest importance are aluminum oxide, the sulfate, and
>the soluble sulfate with potassium (alum). The oxide, alumina,
>occurs naturally as ruby, sapphire, corundum, and emery, and
>is used in glassmaking and refractories. Synthetic ruby and
>sapphire have found application in the construction of lasersfor producing
>coherent light. In 1852, the price of aluminum
>was about $1200/kg, and just before Hall*s discovery in 1886,
>about $25/kg. The price rapidly dropped to 60* and has been
>as low as 33*/kg. The price in December 2001 was about 64*/
>lb or $1.40/kg.
>
>
>
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I like fiberglass, just not Van's fiberglass! My friend, my fiberglass.
JOhn G. 409> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Our friend Al> Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 0
7:13:11 -0800> From: CJohnston@popsound.com> To: rv10-list@matronics.com> >
i bet there isn't one that says "our friend fiberglass".> > cj> do not arc
hive> > > -----Original Message-----> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronic
s.com on behalf of Kent Ogden> Sent: Thu 12/6/2007 6:15 AM> To: rv10-list@m
atronics.com> Subject: RV10-List: Our friend Al> > Here's something a littl
e different. This is from the online CRC Handbook> of Chemistry and Physics
. There is even an aircraft reference! All about> our favorite element invo
lved in building an RV.Kentdo not archive Aluminum *> (L. alumen, alum), Al
; at. wt. 26.9815386(8); at.> no. 13; m.p. 660.32*C; b.p. 2519*C; sp. gr. 2
.6989 (20*C); valence> 3. The ancient Greeks and Romans used alum in medici
ne> as an astringent, and as a mordant in dyeing. In 1761 de> Morveau propo
sed the name alumine for the base in alum,> and Lavoisier, in 1787, thought
this to be the oxide of a still> undiscovered metal. Wohler is generally c
redited with having> isolated the metal in 1827, although an impure form wa
s prepared> by Oersted two years earlier. In 1807, Davy proposed> the name
alumium for the metal, undiscovered at that time,> and later agreed to chan
ge it to aluminum. Shortly thereafter,> the name aluminium was adopted to c
onform with the *ium*> ending of most elements, and this spelling is now in
use elsewhere> in the world. Aluminium was also the accepted spelling> in
the U.S. until 1925, at which time the American Chemical> Society officiall
y decided to use the name aluminum thereafter> in their publications. The m
ethod of obtaining aluminum> metal by the electrolysis of alumina dissolved
in cryolite was> discovered in 1886 by Hall in the U.S. and at about the s
ame> time by Heroult in France. Cryolite, a natural ore found in> Greenland
, is no longer widely used in commercial production,> but has been replaced
by an artificial mixture of sodium,> aluminum, and calcium fluorides. Baux
ite, an impure hydrated> oxide ore, is found in large deposits in Jamaica,
Australia,> Suriname, Guyana, Russia, Arkansas, and elsewhere. The> Bayer p
rocess is most commonly used today to refine bauxite> so it can be accommod
ated in the Hall*Heroult refining> process used to make most aluminum. Alum
inum can now> be produced from clay, but the process is not economically> f
easible at present. Aluminum is the most abundant metal to> be found in the
Earth*s crust (8.1%), but is never found free> in nature. In addition to t
he minerals mentioned above, it is> found in feldspars, granite, and in man
y other common minerals.> Twenty-two isotopes and isomers are known. Natura
l> aluminum is made of one isotope, 27Al. Pure aluminum, a silvery-> white
metal, possesses many desirable characteristics.> It is light, nontoxic, ha
s a pleasing appearance, can easily be> formed, machined, or cast, has a hi
gh thermal conductivity,> and has excellent corrosion resistance. It is non
magnetic and> nonsparking, stands second among metals in the scale of malle
ability,> and sixth in ductility. It is extensively used for kitchen> utens
ils, outside building decoration, and in thousands of industrial> applicati
ons where a strong, light, easily constructed> material is needed. Although
its electrical conductivity is only> about 60% that of copper, it is used
in electrical transmission> lines because of its light weight. Pure aluminu
m is soft and> lacks strength, but it can be alloyed with small amounts of>
copper, magnesium, silicon, manganese, and other elements> to impart a var
iety of useful properties. These alloys are of> vital importance in the con
struction of modern aircraft and> rockets. Aluminum, evaporated in a vacuum
, forms a highly> reflective coating for both visible light and radiant hea
t. These> coatings soon form a thin layer of the protective oxide and do> n
ot deteriorate as do silver coatings. They have found application> in coati
ngs for telescope mirrors, in making decorative> paper, packages, toys, and
in many other uses. The compounds> of greatest importance are aluminum oxi
de, the sulfate, and> the soluble sulfate with potassium (alum). The oxide,
alumina,> occurs naturally as ruby, sapphire, corundum, and emery, and> is
used in glassmaking and refractories. Synthetic ruby and> sapphire have fo
und application in the construction of lasersfor producing> coherent light.
In 1852, the price of aluminum> was about $1200/kg, and just before Hall*s
discovery in 1886,> about $25/kg. The price rapidly dropped to 60* and has
been> as low as 33*/kg. The price in December 2001 was about 64*/> lb or $
1.40/kg.>
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS |
I may have ask this question before but are any using the blast tubes in the
baffling to cool the mags. never had these on a certified or experimental;
never needed.
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: fuel lines, tunnel to wing |
MauleDriver wrote:
> I came to understand the purpose of this istem 43.13 before I knew it
> was a standard. I found it aggravating to no end that none of the
> components of the fuel system that reside in the tunnel are lined up.
> Each one (boost pump, filter, flow meter) are all misaligned slightly
> so one can never "/install a straight length of tubing between two
> rigidly mounted fittings". / the fittings all require a job in the
> tubing between them. /
> /
> I did the same bulkhead fitting thing that Bob and others have done.
> Note that there are 90 degree bends in both pieces of tubing so it
> would appear to conform to 8-31. Bob did a real nice job on the
> bushings so that there are 2 inner bushing to keep the fitting
> centered in the oversize hole, and 2 outer bushing to capture it in
> the hole. I took a simpler route and just used 2 outer bushing that
> depend on being clamped in place by the nut on the bulkhead fitting.
> Given 8-31, the lazy approach would possibly provide even greater
> allowance for vibration and temperature changes. Though I would
> emphasize there is no need for this in this situation. And Bob's
> bushings really looks like the proper way to do it.
>
> Overall, I'm thinking that the bulkhead fitting is the best way to
> handle this situation next to Van's original design. It simplies the
> bending required and facilitates installation of the Andair valve.
> It does add more points of possible failure.
>
> Bill Watson
>
> Ben Westfall wrote:
>>
>> I have been fretting over the fuel line installation lately and I too
>> have considered installing standard bulkhead fittings in some similar
>> fashion. The one thing that has kept me from making up my mind and
>> doing this is the following from the 43.13. I don't think this was
>> mentioned in the last go around on fuel lines so I thought I would
>> bring it up.
>>
>>
>>
>> /Chapter 8, Section 3, Paragraph 8-31, part c Alignment states:/
>>
>> / /
>>
>> /"Never install a straight length of tubing between two rigidly
>> mounted fittings. Always incorporate at least one bend between such
>> fittings to absorb strain caused by vibration and temperature changes." /
>>
>>
>>
>> Does the fitting in the tunnel wall qualify as a rigidly mounted? If
>> so does anyone "in the know" know what qualifies as a proper bend? I
>> am wondering if this is the primary reason for the way Vans has done
>> it without fittings? I'm curious of others thoughts.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ben Westfall
>>
>> #40579
>>
>> PDX
>>
>
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS |
I put one in....don't know if it's useful or not.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
David McNeill wrote:
> I may have ask this question before but are any using the blast tubes in
> the baffling to cool the mags. never had these on a certified or
> experimental; never needed.
>
> *
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS |
same here
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Dec 6, 2007, at 12:52 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> I put one in....don't know if it's useful or not.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> David McNeill wrote:
>> I may have ask this question before but are any using the blast
>> tubes in the baffling to cool the mags. never had these on a
>> certified or experimental; never needed.
>> *
>
>
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS |
I spoke to Allen Barrett about the need for blast tubes. what I learned
was that Mags are not fond of heat. In a Pitts, it is nearly mandatory
to put in blast tubes as there is a lot of heat behind the baffles, and
the mags don't last without the tubes. I don't know how much heat the
-10 holds in the aft engine compartment, but living in the desert, I'm
sensitive to anything that's affected by the heat, and so I put one in
for each mag. I used the Van's corrugated plastic tube, and wrapped each
with a coil of #10 coper wire to bend/aim them at the mags. However,
based on what I learned in the paragraph below, I believe this is going
to be too much and I may fashion some restrictors that provide a smaller
diameter opening. I saw Allen Judy's highly modified RV6 @ OSH this year
and he's got blast tubes of a very small diameter Scat Tube ( 3/8"?)
On a related note, I recently spoke with a -10 builder in OK who just
completed his plane and is now flying. He reported the HTS (Hot Tunnel
Syndrome) phenomena. He has John Forsling exhaust and the Forsling
Ceramic coated heat muffs. One mounted on each side of the engine on the
exhaust stacks. John warned us that the heat muffs might not produce
enough heat as the exhaust is ceramic coated both inside and outside.
That turned out NOT to be the case. The air to the muffs is fed by a
single 2" opening at the rear baffle behind cyl #5. The solution to the
heat problem for this builder was to put a restrictor plate in front of
the 2" air inlet. He experimented with how big the hole in the
restrictor plate should be and FOUND THAT 1/4 " ONE QUARTER OF AN INCH
was all that was needed to supply all the air He needed for front and
aft cabin on a 40 degree OAT day!!!!! It solved his HTS problem and
still provided all of the heat he needs.
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
David McNeill wrote:
> I may have ask this question before but are any using the blast tubes
> in the baffling to cool the mags. never had these on a certified or
> experimental; never needed.
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS |
I have one too
-----Original Message-----
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
Sent: 12/06/07 12:23 PM
Subject: RV10-List: BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS
I may have ask this question before but are any using the blast tubes in the
baffling to cool the mags. never had these on a certified or experimental;
never needed.
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: fuel lines, tunnel to wing |
I looked into this straight tube between rigid supports thing as
discussed in 43.13 and I identified two issues regarding this specific
installation that allow me to be satisfied that in this particular
installation I'm not going to have a problem.
First, the mounting point at the tunnel is not very stiff. The
tunnel is 0.050" aluminum and there is no support stiffening in the area
in the same axis as the fuel line. (ie no other bulkheads at a right
angle to the tunnel) So effectively there is not a lot holding the
tunnel end fitting thereby allowing expansion, contraction and vibration
to provide little stress to the tube. Try pushing on the tunnel
sheetmetal near the location where this tube fitting goes and you'll see
how much and easily the tunnel flexes at this point.
Second, This area of the aircraft is incrediblly stiff in the
bending direction allong the axis of the fuel tube. The fuel line is
running parallel to the wing spar and about 8" in front of the spar,
the amount of structural flexing in this area better be darn little!
So those were the two things I considered before I made the
bushings,
I do note though, ensuring the fuel tubing length is correct is now
much more important, and if I'm not satisfied with this approach, I'll
loose the bulkhead fitting at the wing root and just use the one that
allows a nice transition into the tunnel.
-Bob Newman
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS |
Very good real life example of a fix for HTS. Anybody else with HTS
want to try covering the holes and seeing what happens? One thing I
know from experience is that I have never seen the heater valves
opened very far. You will cook yourself if you do.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Dec 6, 2007, at 1:45 PM, Deems Davis wrote:
>
> I spoke to Allen Barrett about the need for blast tubes. what I
> learned was that Mags are not fond of heat. In a Pitts, it is
> nearly mandatory to put in blast tubes as there is a lot of heat
> behind the baffles, and the mags don't last without the tubes. I
> don't know how much heat the -10 holds in the aft engine
> compartment, but living in the desert, I'm sensitive to anything
> that's affected by the heat, and so I put one in for each mag. I
> used the Van's corrugated plastic tube, and wrapped each with a coil
> of #10 coper wire to bend/aim them at the mags. However, based on
> what I learned in the paragraph below, I believe this is going to be
> too much and I may fashion some restrictors that provide a smaller
> diameter opening. I saw Allen Judy's highly modified RV6 @ OSH this
> year and he's got blast tubes of a very small diameter Scat Tube
> ( 3/8"?)
>
> On a related note, I recently spoke with a -10 builder in OK who
> just completed his plane and is now flying. He reported the HTS (Hot
> Tunnel Syndrome) phenomena. He has John Forsling exhaust and the
> Forsling Ceramic coated heat muffs. One mounted on each side of the
> engine on the exhaust stacks. John warned us that the heat muffs
> might not produce enough heat as the exhaust is ceramic coated both
> inside and outside. That turned out NOT to be the case. The air to
> the muffs is fed by a single 2" opening at the rear baffle behind
> cyl #5. The solution to the heat problem for this builder was to
> put a restrictor plate in front of the 2" air inlet. He experimented
> with how big the hole in the restrictor plate should be and FOUND
> THAT 1/4 " ONE QUARTER OF AN INCH was all that was needed to supply
> all the air He needed for front and aft cabin on a 40 degree OAT
> day!!!!! It solved his HTS problem and still provided all of the
> heat he needs.
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> 'Its all done....Its just not put together'
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
> David McNeill wrote:
>> I may have ask this question before but are any using the blast
>> tubes in the baffling to cool the mags. never had these on a
>> certified or experimental; never needed.
>
>
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | closing up the bottom wing skin. |
Silly question-
What position have people placed the wing in to try to get interior access
to all the rivets with the bucking bar. Seems with the wings in the craddle
, my arms are not long enough to reach those rivets at the rear spar area,
or did everyone get a helper with the rivets?
Thanks,
John G. 409
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS |
I wonder what size hole you need for a -10 Minnesota day?
Gary
Back in MN for the holidays
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>
> I spoke to Allen Barrett about the need for blast tubes. what I learned
> was that Mags are not fond of heat. In a Pitts, it is nearly mandatory
> to put in blast tubes as there is a lot of heat behind the baffles, and
> the mags don't last without the tubes. I don't know how much heat the
> -10 holds in the aft engine compartment, but living in the desert, I'm
> sensitive to anything that's affected by the heat, and so I put one in
> for each mag. I used the Van's corrugated plastic tube, and wrapped each
> with a coil of #10 coper wire to bend/aim them at the mags. However,
> based on what I learned in the paragraph below, I believe this is going
> to be too much and I may fashion some restrictors that provide a smaller
> diameter opening. I saw Allen Judy's highly modified RV6 @ OSH this year
> and he's got blast tubes of a very small diameter Scat Tube ( 3/8"?)
>
> On a related note, I recently spoke with a -10 builder in OK who just
> completed his plane and is now flying. He reported the HTS (Hot Tunnel
> Syndrome) phenomena. He has John Forsling exhaust and the Forsling
> Ceramic coated heat muffs. One mounted on each side of the engine on the
> exhaust stacks. John warned us that the heat muffs might not produce
> enough heat as the exhaust is ceramic coated both inside and outside.
> That turned out NOT to be the case. The air to the muffs is fed by a
> single 2" opening at the rear baffle behind cyl #5. The solution to the
> heat problem for this builder was to put a restrictor plate in front of
> the 2" air inlet. He experimented with how big the hole in the
> restrictor plate should be and FOUND THAT 1/4 " ONE QUARTER OF AN INCH
> was all that was needed to supply all the air He needed for front and
> aft cabin on a 40 degree OAT day!!!!! It solved his HTS problem and
> still provided all of the heat he needs.
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> 'Its all done....Its just not put together'
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
> David McNeill wrote:
> > I may have ask this question before but are any using the blast tubes
> > in the baffling to cool the mags. never had these on a certified or
> > experimental; never needed.
>
>
>
>
>
<html><body>
<DIV>I wonder what size hole you need for a -10 Minnesota day?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Gary</DIV>
<DIV>Back in MN for the holidays</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: Deems Davis
<deemsdavis@cox.net> <BR><BR>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems
Davis <DEEMSDAVIS@COX.NET><BR>> <BR>> I spoke to Allen Barrett about
the need for blast tubes. what I learned <BR>> was that Mags are not fond
of heat. In a Pitts, it is nearly mandatory <BR>> to put in blast tubes as
there is a lot of heat behind the baffles, and <BR>> the mags don't last without
the tubes. I don't know how much heat the <BR>> -10 holds in the aft
engine compartment, but living in the desert, I'm <BR>> sensitive to anything
that's affected by the heat, and so I put one in <BR>> for each mag. I used
the Van's corrugated plastic tube, and wrapped each <BR>> with a coil of
#10 coper wire to bend/aim them at the mags. However, <BR>> based on what
I learned in the paragraph below, I believe this is
going
<BR>> to be too much and I may fashion some restrictors that provide a smaller
<BR>> diameter opening. I saw Allen Judy's highly modified RV6 @ OSH this
year <BR>> and he's got blast tubes of a very small diameter Scat Tube (
3/8"?) <BR>> <BR>> On a related note, I recently spoke with a -10 builder
in OK who just <BR>> completed his plane and is now flying. He reported the
HTS (Hot Tunnel <BR>> Syndrome) phenomena. He has John Forsling exhaust
and the Forsling <BR>> Ceramic coated heat muffs. One mounted on each side
of the engine on the <BR>> exhaust stacks. John warned us that the heat muffs
might not produce <BR>> enough heat as the exhaust is ceramic coated both
inside and outside. <BR>> That turned out NOT to be the case. The air to
the muffs is fed by a <BR>> single 2" opening at the rear baffle behind cyl
#5. The solution to the <BR>> heat problem for this builder was to put a restrictor
plate in front of <BR>> the 2" air inlet
. He e
> _
://for
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | closing up the bottom wing skin. |
Absolutely - get help and bandages. Make sure women and children are out o
f hearing range.
Mark
N410MR<html><div></div>
From: indigoonlatigo@msn.comTo: rv10-list@matronics.comSubject: RV10-List:
closing up the bottom wing skin.Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 11:47:17 -0800
Silly question- What position have people placed the wing in to try to get
interior access to all the rivets with the bucking bar. Seems with the wing
s in the craddle, my arms are not long enough to reach those rivets at the
rear spar area, or did everyone get a helper with the rivets? Thanks, John
G. 409
_________________________________________________________________
Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista=AE + Windows Live=99.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_C
PC_MediaCtr_bigscreen_102007
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: closing up the bottom wing skin. |
With the bottom skins? Definitely a helper.
Laid them flat on the bench, but lots of ways would
work, with a helper.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John Gonzalez wrote:
> Silly question-
>
> What position have people placed the wing in to try to get interior
> access to all the rivets with the bucking bar. Seems with the wings in
> the craddle, my arms are not long enough to reach those rivets at the
> rear spar area, or did everyone get a helper with the rivets?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John G. 409
>
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: closing up the bottom wing skin. |
I guess if you are a small framed person you might have problems reaching. I did
mine while they were on the cradle by my self I found that holding both the
bucking bar and the gun, I was able to get better control. But it does take
some real contortions to get into position for some of them. [Shocked]
If you have a helper available great.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
Fuselage SB
(N410GB reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150857#150857
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Aerosport Testimonial - long |
Just had to post this after this week's experience...
About a year ago when I went to replace my spark plugs
and inspect them, I found clean oil in my #4 cylinder.
That of course got me worried at the time, but talking
to a few people they said that if the piston ring
gaps line up, the oil can bleed through and this may
be what happened as they felt it's something they've
heard of before. At ACI time, I did my compression
test and that was also my lowest cylinder, at 74, while
my others were at 77-79 in general. Considering
that this is still good compression and everything
was running great, I just kept my eyes and ears open
and went on. Considering how well it ran, and how low
the oil consumption was, it wasn't alarming. That
lower plug in that cylinder also had more deposits,
that I attributed to the oil fouling. I switched
to fine-wire plugs back then too.
One note I should add is that I probably also ran my
engine less hard during break-in than I should have,
so I've always wondered if I did a good job on the
break in or not. Seems to be ok.
On one of my last couple flights, I was run LOP and
noticed #4 had a blip of rise and fall in EGT,
and the a subsequent drop in CHT. Running LOP,
a rising EGT would mean a richening mixture. And,
a rising EGT can also be because of an ignition
issue where a plug isn't firing as well. I flew 5
or 6 more hours and monitored it. The CHT on that
cylinder stayed slightly lower than before, and
the graphs I downloaded from my Chelton showed a
difference in the curve I got when I leaned that
cylinder. Of course, with cylinder suspicions,
ignition suspicions, and even injector suspicions,
it was time for some troubleshooting. Adding to that,
my previously very good oil consumption was now
drastically up, to something like 1 qt in 2 hours,
as opposed to 1 qt in maybe 8-15.
I thought it best to troubleshoot the external things
first, and then the cylinder, since I knew them
a little better. The Lightspeed was super consistent
in run-up, and wasn't a problem because a coil failure
would affect 2 cylinders. The mag was a possibility,
but how does a mag just affect one cylinder...other than
the ignition lead. I pulled the harness and
checked the cap inside the mag and nothing was
odd. I also pulled the injector and cleaned it and
found nothing. I replaced my cheap top plugs, and
cleaned the bottom. No significant deposits except
for on #4 again. So, it was on to the cylinder.
I called Bart at Aerosport and he gave me a
troubleshooting tip to do in addition to a compression
test again. Run the engine and make sure it's fully
warmed up and operating fine in flight. Then land
and pull both the top and bottom plugs and look into
the cylinder. With dual plugs you can shine a light
in one and see into the other and see a LOT.
Look for consistency among cylinders in how the
piston looks in regards to dryness. There should be
a slightly damp ring around the outer edge of the piston,
but dry towards the center. Bingo! My #4 piston was
all oily damp, but the others were normal with that
faint ring. Compression was still 74 or so. So now
I knew where that oil was going.
Pulled the cylinder, which was very easy (total job
about 1.5 hours for that cylinder). Upon removal,
my local A&P who came to hang out and offer advice
noted an issue with the rings. Additionally, the
gap on the top ring was at the 6 o'clock position
and the bottom was at the 6:30 or 7 o'clock, so
indeed the rings had lined up quite a bit.
Prior to removing the cylinder, I had talked to
Bart and he assured me that he'd take care of it.
Not that he'd do it cheap, or he'd try to fit it
in, but that he'd take care of it for me, and turn
it around the same day. I decided that with Christmas
coming and my father coming who would want to go flying,
that I'd overnight it to Aerosport. Customs caused
me a delay, so it took 2 business days...oh well.
But, Bart got the cylinder, checked it out and found
that the top ring was bad. It sounded to me like
there was a gouge out of it or something. He said
that would cause more pressure differentials in the
engine and cause increased oil use, and affect the
job the other rings would do too. He also touched up
my valves, replaced the piston, and weighed the items,
and basically reworked the cylinder to be ready for
a new break-in period. He turned it around same-day,
as promised, and shipped it FedEx Priority overnight
right back to me, along with a 1-cylinder seal kit,
and LOTS more hardware than I asked for or needed,
including 6 new exhaust gaskets. Not only that,
but he REFUSED to take payment for it, or for the
upcharge for quick shipping. He just wanted to make
sure I was going to have it working good. I feel
so guilty that I'm going to try to figure out a
way to send them something they can't return.
I haven't flown with it yet, but heck, even if
something is still wrong, I know it ain't the cylinder.
So what did I learn? LOTS! #1, when it comes time to
overhaul my engine, it's going back to Bart. How could
I NOT do that....I've never heard them do anyone wrong,
and they certainly did more for me than I would have
asked for. #2, there's a beauty in the simplicity of a
Lycoming....when I had a cylinder issue, I just removed
that one cylinder. It was easy. And, there are places
that will be happy to overhaul things and get them
back the same week. In fact, in my case it went to
a different country and came back within a half week.
Try doing a single-cylinder job on an auto conversion,
and having the job be this small. #3, Don't skimp on
running your engine hard on break-in. I'm not sure if
I ever did a good job, so I'm glad to get a 2nd chance
this time. #4, I'm very glad that with what I have,
there's plenty of god advice out there on troubleshooting.
It's nice having a "standard" engine, because sometimes
it's that one simple tip that can save you lots of
time. #5, I ABSOLUTELY could not have noticed the
inconsistency, as it still ran well, without a full
6-cylinder engine monitor that feeds my Chelton and allows
me to download the data and graph it with "EGview".
I was able to take some flights, and crank up the scale
on my EGT's and stretch the graph out and track down
the exact instance in time when my EGT's rose, and KNOW
with CERTAINTY that it was something that was not right.
The engine still performed really good, but without
knowing my past temperature trend history (i.e. little
things, like num 3 was usually just a few degrees cooler
than num 4, but now 3 was 5 deg to 25 deg low) I would
have never flagged the engine and decided to dig in and
diagnose something that you couldn't really feel. The
engine logs and display were a HUGE benefit.
I just thought I'd share. It was a whole new experience
for me.
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: closing up the bottom wing skin. |
Do you have to remove the control tubes to rivet the bottom skins on?
Jae
40533
do not archive
orchidman wrote:
>
> I guess if you are a small framed person you might have problems reaching. I
did mine while they were on the cradle by my self I found that holding both
the bucking bar and the gun, I was able to get better control. But it does take
some real contortions to get into position for some of them. [Shocked]
> If you have a helper available great.
>
> --------
> Gary Blankenbiller
> RV10 - # 40674
> Fuselage SB
> (N410GB reserved)
>
>
>
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | closing up the bottom wing skin. |
John,
I did mine solo with the wings in the cradle - some were a challenge but
I'm very happy with the results. I'm 5'9" and my knuckles don't drag on
the floor. I used safety wire to hold the skins up and out of the way
to access the rear spar rivets. I borrowed the idea from Deems - see his
web site.
cheers,
Ron
187 finishing
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Friday, 7 December 2007 6:17 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: closing up the bottom wing skin.
Silly question-
What position have people placed the wing in to try to get
interior access to all the rivets with the bucking bar. Seems with the
wings in the craddle, my arms are not long enough to reach those rivets
at the rear spar area, or did everyone get a helper with the rivets?
Thanks,
John G. 409
"Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached files is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
your computer."
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: closing up the bottom wing skin. |
Did all botom skins by myself, but have long arms. But did end up with
rivet rash on arms.
So it can be done, just do what it takes to have a nice result.
Thane
N321BY
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Ritter
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 4:35 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: closing up the bottom wing skin.
Absolutely - get help and bandages. Make sure women and children are
out of hearing range.
Mark
N410MR
<html><div></div>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: indigoonlatigo@msn.com
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: closing up the bottom wing skin.
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 11:47:17 -0800
Silly question-
What position have people placed the wing in to try to get interior
access to all the rivets with the bucking bar. Seems with the wings in
the craddle, my arms are not long enough to reach those rivets at the
rear spar area, or did everyone get a helper with the rivets?
Thanks,
John G. 409
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
p://forums.matronics.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. Power up!
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: closing up the bottom wing skin. |
I sure would...makes it easier. Removing them is a snap.
Well, actually more of a twist of a nut.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Jae Chang wrote:
>
> Do you have to remove the control tubes to rivet the bottom skins on?
>
> Jae
> 40533
> do not archive
>
> orchidman wrote:
>>
>> I guess if you are a small framed person you might have problems
>> reaching. I did mine while they were on the cradle by my self I
>> found that holding both the bucking bar and the gun, I was able to get
>> better control. But it does take some real contortions to get into
>> position for some of them. [Shocked] If you have a helper available
>> great.
>>
>> --------
>> Gary Blankenbiller
>> RV10 - # 40674
>> Fuselage SB
>> (N410GB reserved)
>>
>>
Message 26
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: closing up the bottom wing skin. |
I did. You need to room to get your arm in there.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jae Chang
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: closing up the bottom wing skin.
Do you have to remove the control tubes to rivet the bottom skins on?
Jae
40533
do not archive
orchidman wrote:
>
> I guess if you are a small framed person you might have problems reaching.
I did mine while they were on the cradle by my self I found that holding
both the bucking bar and the gun, I was able to get better control. But it
does take some real contortions to get into position for some of them.
[Shocked]
> If you have a helper available great.
>
> --------
> Gary Blankenbiller
> RV10 - # 40674
> Fuselage SB
> (N410GB reserved)
>
>
>
Message 27
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: closing up the bottom wing skin. |
I did it all myself John... and though my arms are quite long I don't
think that came in to play much. The bottom skins are much easier to
rivet than they look. I avoided it for a few days, but once I
started I couldn't remember what all the fuss was about. I kept the
wings in the cradle the whole time.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
On Dec 6, 2007, at 11:47 AM, John Gonzalez wrote:
> Silly question-
>
> What position have people placed the wing in to try to get interior
> access to all the rivets with the bucking bar. Seems with the wings
> in the craddle, my arms are not long enough to reach those rivets
> at the rear spar area, or did everyone get a helper with the rivets?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John G. 409
>
>
Message 28
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS |
I have one mag and one lightspeed and no blast tube.
Never had a problem yet. Maybe I'll be adding one at the next oil change.
Scott Schmidt
----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Kraus <n223rv@wolflakeairport.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2007 12:24:19 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS
<n223rv@wolflakeairport.net>
I have one too
-----Original Message-----
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
Sent: 12/06/07 12:23 PM
Subject: RV10-List: BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS
I may have ask this question before but are any using the blast tubes
in the
baffling to cool the mags. never had these on a certified or
experimental;
never needed.
Message 29
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long |
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Try doing a single-cylinder job on an auto conversion,
> and having the job be this small.
Hi Tim!
Since you couldn't resist mentioning the auto conversion, I can't
resist offering a good natured reply and offering some of my own
personal observations. :-)
In the 24 years or so that I've been driving, I've never once had to
have any cylinder, piston, or valve work done on any of the cars that
I've owned. In the 7 years that I have been flying, both airplanes that
I have owned have had to have engine work, one with the replacement of a
cylinder, piston and rings, and the other with valve problems.
From my perspective, it is rather dismaying that you have had to have
minor top end work done on your engine with just over 300 hours on it,
and in fact it was a year ago that it started to have issues, so you
actually had far less hours on it at the time.
On the positive side, Aerosport definitely gave you great customer
service! Hopefully you will be able to get everything back together and
running so you can take your Dad up flying. One of my fondest memories
was when I took my Mom up for her first flight with me.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
Message 30
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: closing up the bottom wing skin. |
Flat on the bench is what seems to work best, with a helper at least.
Haven't seen them done or tried to do them solo, but it sounds like it
can be done. What we have found is that taping some foam around the
bucking bar except the face that hits the rivet is also helpful in
case you drop it.
do not archive
DSC_1725
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Dec 6, 2007, at 2:47 PM, John Gonzalez wrote:
> Silly question-
>
> What position have people placed the wing in to try to get interior
> access to all the rivets with the bucking bar. Seems with the wings
> in the craddle, my arms are not long enough to reach those rivets at
> the rear spar area, or did everyone get a helper with the rivets?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John G. 409
>
>
Message 31
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long |
It is hard to compare airplanes and cars.
If we all drove our cars around at full throttle, it wouldn't make it a week, maybe
not even a day.
Bart and Sue are two of the best in this industry.
He probably didn't want your money because the exchange rate has made the American
dollar worth nothing to him.
-Scott Schmidt
----- Original Message ----
From: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2007 4:18:08 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aerosport Testimonial - long
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Try doing a single-cylinder job on an auto conversion,
> and having the job be this small.
Hi Tim!
Since you couldn't resist mentioning the auto conversion, I can't
resist offering a good natured reply and offering some of my own
personal observations. :-)
In the 24 years or so that I've been driving, I've never once had
to
have any cylinder, piston, or valve work done on any of the cars that
I've owned. In the 7 years that I have been flying, both airplanes
that
I have owned have had to have engine work, one with the replacement of
a
cylinder, piston and rings, and the other with valve problems.
From my perspective, it is rather dismaying that you have had to
have
minor top end work done on your engine with just over 300 hours on it,
and in fact it was a year ago that it started to have issues, so you
actually had far less hours on it at the time.
On the positive side, Aerosport definitely gave you great customer
service! Hopefully you will be able to get everything back together
and
running so you can take your Dad up flying. One of my fondest memories
was when I took my Mom up for her first flight with me.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of
an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
Message 32
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | closing up the bottom wing skin. |
Ditto on taping the bucking bar; we use small pieces of silicone baffling
material to protect adjacent surfaces from the stray trajectories of the
bucking bar. Also when two surfaces are not clamped tightly together before
riveting, it is sometimes necessary to use a draw bead made of silicone
rubber to set the rivet so that the first strike of the rivet gun sets them
together. I believe I sent pictures of a draw bead and described its use in
previous posts.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: closing up the bottom wing skin.
Flat on the bench is what seems to work best, with a helper at least.
Haven't seen them done or tried to do them solo, but it sounds like it can
be done. What we have found is that taping some foam around the bucking bar
except the face that hits the rivet is also helpful in case you drop it.
do not archive
DSC_1725
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Dec 6, 2007, at 2:47 PM, John Gonzalez wrote:
Silly question-
What position have people placed the wing in to try to get interior access
to all the rivets with the bucking bar. Seems with the wings in the craddle,
my arms are not long enough to reach those rivets at the rear spar area, or
did everyone get a helper with the rivets?
Thanks,
John G. 409
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 33
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long |
Scott Schmidt wrote:
> If we all drove our cars around at full throttle, it wouldn't make it a
> week, maybe not even a day.
Hi Scott,
Do you have any data on this? I keep hearing people say this but I
can't seem to find any actual data to back it up. I'd greatly
appreciate it if you would be willing to send any information that you
have to help me in my research. I'm trying to learn as much about this
stuff as I can.
Since the autoconversions are not flown at full throttle but rather in
the vicinity of 4000 RPM it doesn't really apply to the aircraft
application, but I'm still interested to see if one did want to run it
full throttle in a car just how long it might last.
I've found some useful information on this web page
http://www.sdsefi.com/air51.htm
but it would be great if someone had more information to share about it.
Thanks,
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
Message 34
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long |
Bart and Sue are two of the best in this industry.
He probably didn't want your money because the exchange rate has made
the American dollar worth nothing to him.
That and a 3 year warranty for parts and labour he stands by.
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schmidt
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aerosport Testimonial - long
It is hard to compare airplanes and cars.
If we all drove our cars around at full throttle, it wouldn't make it
a week, maybe not even a day.
Bart and Sue are two of the best in this industry.
He probably didn't want your money because the exchange rate has made
the American dollar worth nothing to him.
-Scott Schmidt
----- Original Message ----
From: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2007 4:18:08 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aerosport Testimonial - long
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Try doing a single-cylinder job on an auto conversion,
> and having the job be this small.
Hi Tim!
Since you couldn't resist mentioning the auto conversion, I can't
resist offering a good natured reply and offering some of my own
personal observations. :-)
In the 24 years or so that I've been driving, I've never once had
to
have any cylinder, piston, or valve work done on any of the cars that
I've owned. In the 7 years that I have been flying, both airplanes
that
I have owned have had to have engine work, one with the replacement of
a
cylinder, piston and rings, and the other with valve problems.
From my perspective, it is rather dismaying that you have had to
have
minor top end work done on your engine with just over 300 hours on it,
and in fact it was a year ago that it started to have issues, so you
actually had far less hours on it at the time.
On the positive side, Aerosport definitely gave you great customer
service! Hopefully you will be able to get everything back together
and
running so you can take your Dad up flying. One of my fondest
memories
was when I took my Mom up for her first flight with me.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of
Message 35
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | GPS on PDA/Phones |
A bit off topic, but I know there are a number of techno geeks like me
on this list. I just upgraded my mobile phone to a PDA/Phone loaded
with Windows Mobile 6. The device includes a GPS. (Available here in Oz
as an HTC TyTN II) I was wondering whether anyone could share their
experiences with these gadgets, or advise what sought of GPS software is
best. Does Anywhere Map work on WM 6 based PDAs??
Tia
Ron
Do not archive
"Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached files is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
your computer."
Message 36
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long |
We could have a little competition...
How about we go out and gather firsthand reports from 20 Lycoming
owners that made it 2000 hours with no work, and we go out
and find 20 of ANY single auto conversion engine owners out there
that needed no work after 2000 hours. ;)
I don't know, I know what you're saying...the engines may be
tough, but today I wound out my 4.3L to 3500rpm and tried to keep
it there for a short time. It wasn't very comforting to hear that
thing winding away like that. I know, I know, they should be
able to handle it....but man, that's why they build transmissions
on cars.
I certainly wasn't happy to have any work done. But on the same
token, I can't blame the engine design, or the builder for it.
Perhaps it's from having looser tolerances to allow for the
expansion, but while talking about the subject with the A&P as
we pulled the jug, he told me he sees planes all the time that
have gone to TBO with no work. Starting an engine up is kind
of a crapshoot. I've had tough diesel engines that threw
rods, cracked pistons, and of course my least favorite stranding
I've ever had was when a timing belt blew, throwing my valves
into my pistons on a car I had. You just never know.
I'm just glad that it ended up being so easy to work on. I can
see now why they kept the design...it's really a piece of
maintenance simplicity from a standpoint of the jugs, which are
the part you'd have to work on more than the others anyway.
Tim
Dj Merrill wrote:
>
> Scott Schmidt wrote:
>
>> If we all drove our cars around at full throttle, it wouldn't make it a
>> week, maybe not even a day.
>
> Hi Scott,
> Do you have any data on this? I keep hearing people say this but I
> can't seem to find any actual data to back it up. I'd greatly
> appreciate it if you would be willing to send any information that you
> have to help me in my research. I'm trying to learn as much about this
> stuff as I can.
>
> Since the autoconversions are not flown at full throttle but rather in
> the vicinity of 4000 RPM it doesn't really apply to the aircraft
> application, but I'm still interested to see if one did want to run it
> full throttle in a car just how long it might last.
>
> I've found some useful information on this web page
> http://www.sdsefi.com/air51.htm
> but it would be great if someone had more information to share about it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Dj
>
Message 37
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long |
I hate to get into this discussion, but just to throw in another point
of view.
How many GPH does the IO-540 burn at full throttle? About 26, give or
take a few, right? How many GPH does everybody burn in cruise? I
know Tim is usually in the 9-12 range, right? My dad keeps it under
10 almost always and very often it is below 8. This is not anywhere
near full throttle. I remember talking to Vic and I seem to remember
he said he was averaging about 13. What are the recommendations for
max continuous power for longest engine life? I am not by any means
an expert, and it could very well be that aircraft engines are built
to handle a higher percentage of continuous power. I know in turbo
models they often run a lot higher power, but I also seem to hear
stories of TIO's not getting the same life as IO's.
I am definitely in the club of going with a standard engine that the
plane was designed for from the start, but I also agree that those who
want to experiment have every right to do so (with the usual caveats
and disclaimers understood) in this experimental amateur-built
category. When someone talks to me about helping them with a plane
with an alternative engine installation, I usually say that I am not
interested in the R&D involved, but that's just me.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Dec 6, 2007, at 8:56 PM, Dj Merrill wrote:
>
> Scott Schmidt wrote:
>
>> If we all drove our cars around at full throttle, it wouldn't make
>> it a
>> week, maybe not even a day.
>
> Hi Scott,
> Do you have any data on this? I keep hearing people say this but I
> can't seem to find any actual data to back it up. I'd greatly
> appreciate it if you would be willing to send any information that you
> have to help me in my research. I'm trying to learn as much about
> this
> stuff as I can.
>
> Since the autoconversions are not flown at full throttle but rather
> in
> the vicinity of 4000 RPM it doesn't really apply to the aircraft
> application, but I'm still interested to see if one did want to run it
> full throttle in a car just how long it might last.
>
> I've found some useful information on this web page
> http://www.sdsefi.com/air51.htm
> but it would be great if someone had more information to share about
> it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Dj
>
> --
> Dj Merrill
> Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
> http://deej.net/sportsman/
>
> "Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction
> of an
> airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
>
>
Message 38
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long |
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> We could have a little competition...
>
> How about we go out and gather firsthand reports from 20 Lycoming
> owners that made it 2000 hours with no work, and we go out
> and find 20 of ANY single auto conversion engine owners out there
> that needed no work after 2000 hours. ;)
Okay, you do the Subaru conversions, and I'll do the Lycomings... :-)
Honestly I was not (and am still not) trying to stir the pot. It is
just that reports like yours is one of the main reasons why I started
looking at Subaru conversions. I had two bad experiences (at 800 hours
on one engine, and about 1050 or so on the other). My local shop often
had a Lycoming engine in for top end work. It really started bothering me.
You are right, there are some engines that will make it to TBO, but I
just feel like it is a crap shoot. You had to do work at 300 hours, but
Jesse might make it all the way to TBO. There just doesn't seem to be
any good reasoning why one engine might make it and one might need
work. I'm fairly certain you take good care of your airplane and
engine, and it is unlikely that it was something that you did that
caused the problem (or was it? *grin*).
The Subaru might have problems as well. When it comes down to it, most
of us make decisions based on our personal experiences. None of my cars
has ever had to have engine work, and both of my airplanes have. It
might be irrational reasoning, but the picture in my head is tending
towards Subaru engines being more reliable than a typical Lycoming.
That's why I've been asking around for actual data and test results, if
anyone has any to share or can point me in the right direction. My
science background is telling me that I need real data, not subjective
WAGs... :-)
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
Message 39
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Aerosport Testimonial - long |
Comparing a car engine to an aircraft engine isn't a fair comparison.
If you want to compare flying auto-conversions to Lyco's, then that's
fine.
1) How many of us driving V6's or 8's have temp gauges in every
cylinder? - none
2) How many of us have temp gauges installed in every exhaust port? -
none
3) How many of us know every idiosyncrasy our car engines to recognize
when 1 cylinder is showing unusual signs of trouble? - none
My point is that we don't care about our care engines like we care about
our aircraft engines. As long as they run, we're happy. We really
don't give a damn if they're running absolutely perfectly. Who cares if
they have a weak or leaky cylinder that we don't know about? The truth
is, when it comes to cars, what you don't know doesn't hurt you.
It's a whole different ballgame when it's your life. Or your wife's
life. Or your kids life. We all want to know EVERYTHING about our
aircraft engines. We keep our eyes open for ANY trends that could tip
us off to a failing engine. We keep them tuned meticulously, we
maintain them meticulously, we install sensors in the heads, we install
sensors in the exhaust, we know what our temps should be when things are
right - we also know when something doesn't look right.
We don't have that level of detail in our cars, so we don't do that with
our cars. I'd bet that if we all could examine our car engines in
aircraft-level-of-detail, nearly all of us would be driving on engines
that are out of our airplane-worthy standards.
So when I hear someone try and use the 'my car hasn't broken down'
argument, I let it go in one ear an out the other.
That's a terrible data point simply because you have no data to tell me
exactly what the health of your car engine really is. As long as the
check engine light stays off, we're happy.
We don't watch our car engines like a hawk, but we do when they go into
the airplanes that will be carrying our family.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Jesse Saint [mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 9:00 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aerosport Testimonial - long
I hate to get into this discussion, but just to throw in another point
of view.
How many GPH does the IO-540 burn at full throttle? About 26, give or
take a few, right? How many GPH does everybody burn in cruise? I know
Tim is usually in the 9-12 range, right? My dad keeps it under 10
almost always and very often it is below 8. This is not anywhere near
full throttle. I remember talking to Vic and I seem to remember he said
he was averaging about 13. What are the recommendations for max
continuous power for longest engine life? I am not by any means an
expert, and it could very well be that aircraft engines are built to
handle a higher percentage of continuous power. I know in turbo models
they often run a lot higher power, but I also seem to hear stories of
TIO's not getting the same life as IO's.
I am definitely in the club of going with a standard engine that the
plane was designed for from the start, but I also agree that those who
want to experiment have every right to do so (with the usual caveats and
disclaimers understood) in this experimental amateur-built category.
When someone talks to me about helping them with a plane with an
alternative engine installation, I usually say that I am not interested
in the R&D involved, but that's just me.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Dec 6, 2007, at 8:56 PM, Dj Merrill wrote:
>
> Scott Schmidt wrote:
>
>> If we all drove our cars around at full throttle, it wouldn't make it
>> a week, maybe not even a day.
>
> Hi Scott,
> Do you have any data on this? I keep hearing people say this
but I
> can't seem to find any actual data to back it up. I'd greatly
> appreciate it if you would be willing to send any information that you
> have to help me in my research. I'm trying to learn as much about
> this stuff as I can.
>
> Since the autoconversions are not flown at full throttle but
rather
> in the vicinity of 4000 RPM it doesn't really apply to the aircraft
> application, but I'm still interested to see if one did want to run it
> full throttle in a car just how long it might last.
>
> I've found some useful information on this web page
> http://www.sdsefi.com/air51.htm but it would be great if someone had
> more information to share about it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Dj
>
> --
> Dj Merrill
> Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
> http://deej.net/sportsman/
>
> "Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of
> an airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
>
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|