Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:55 AM - SteinAir and Safety-Trim (Bob-tcw)
2. 05:53 AM - Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long (linn Walters)
3. 06:43 AM - Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long (Bobby J. Hughes)
4. 07:22 AM - Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
5. 08:13 AM - Re: GPS on PDA/Phones (Werner Schneider)
6. 08:40 AM - Vent windows (Dawson-Townsend,Timothy)
7. 09:12 AM - Re: Vent windows (Tim Olson)
8. 09:13 AM - Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long (Mark Ritter)
9. 09:14 AM - Car engine (Dawson-Townsend,Timothy)
10. 09:16 AM - Rivethead Aero (Les Kearney)
11. 09:18 AM - Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long (GRANSCOTT@aol.com)
12. 09:19 AM - Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long (GRANSCOTT@aol.com)
13. 09:36 AM - Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long (Bobby J. Hughes)
14. 09:39 AM - Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long (Tim Olson)
15. 09:44 AM - Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long (speckter@comcast.net)
16. 09:46 AM - Re: Vent windows (Robin Marks)
17. 10:22 AM - Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long (Dj Merrill)
18. 11:42 AM - Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long (nyterminat@aol.com)
19. 12:06 PM - Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long (Robin Marks)
20. 02:03 PM - Re: GPS on PDA/Phones ()
21. 03:01 PM - Re: fuel lines, tunnel to wing (John W. Cox)
22. 04:09 PM - Re: GPS on PDA/Phones (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
23. 04:28 PM - Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) (John W. Cox)
24. 04:45 PM - Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) (John W. Cox)
25. 05:10 PM - Trouble with riveting on rear spar at flap bracket. (John Gonzalez)
26. 05:51 PM - Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) (Jeff Carpenter)
27. 06:05 PM - Re: Trouble with riveting on rear spar at flap bracket. (Deems Davis)
28. 06:21 PM - Re: Trouble with riveting on rear spar at flap bracket. (John Gonzalez)
29. 06:21 PM - Re: Trouble with riveting on rear spar at flap bracket. (John Gonzalez)
30. 06:31 PM - Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) (John W. Cox)
31. 06:39 PM - Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) (David Hertner)
32. 07:16 PM - Re: BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
33. 07:48 PM - Re: BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS (Deems Davis)
34. 09:22 PM - Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) (Kelly McMullen)
35. 10:15 PM - Re: Trouble with riveting on rear spar at flap bracket. (Ben Westfall)
36. 10:23 PM - Re: Trouble with riveting on rear spar at flap bracket. (Ben Westfall)
37. 11:38 PM - Re: Trouble with riveting on rear spar at flap bracket. (Jesse Saint)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | SteinAir and Safety-Trim |
Fellow builders,
We are pleased to let you all know that SteinAir has agreed
to be a distributor of TCW Technologies products. They now can
provide Safety-Trim intelligent servo controllers to the experimental
aviation community. Safety-Trim is available at their on-line web
store and may be built into your new instrument panel wiring harness.
Visit. www.steinair.com
Best regards,
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies
www.tcwtech.com
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long |
Good valid points Phil. Knowledge is power! However, we live in a
statistical world, and having something happen/not happen to you
personally doesn't make statistical sense. What makes more sense is
knowing that something has happened to someone somewhere. There are
those that haven't had engine failure in XXX,000 miles, but I'll bet
they've seen one or know someone whose car has been in the shop. Yep,
apples to oranges. I don't care for a Lycosaurs lack of modern
improvements, but they seldom fail catastrophically fail ..... or we'd
have something different up front. No, no hard data, which won't sway
anyone one way or the other which isn't my intent anyway. Our car
engines have become more sophisticated ...... they're more efficient,
last longer, and DO have a lot of instrumentation ....... which the
computer uses. All we get in our newer cars is an idiot light or a
guage or two ..... but the computer is gathering data everywhere and
making operating adjustments on the fly. However, a Lycosaur is rock
simple and anyone with a socket set, mic and a hammer and a few wrenches
can rebuild one to some level of specification, and while they're at it
upgrade the few wires that control it. We wouldn't think of replacing
the wiring harness or the vacuum system on a car engine 'till it's
broke, and the ability (cost) of the 'mechanic' to find the fault and
fix it the first time is rare. They do have the ability (sometimes) to
download engine operating parameters to their shop analyzer which can
make a better educated guess than most mechanics (not knocking them,
just an observation) and lower the trips to the parts counter. I like
my rock-simple, although ancient tecknology, Lycosaur and am not
contemplating an alternative engine, but I surely won't denigrate those
who want to follow that path. I applaud their ability to think outside
of the box and come up with (in their mind) the rationale that justifies
the time, expense, and yes, the trials and tribulations that go along
with being a different drummer. Please remember that if it wasn't for
those innovators out there, we wouldn't have the neat stuff in our
panels or pre-punched kits or ..... well, you get the picture. For me,
I wish them well (and longevity) and hope they share EVERYTHING that
goes on in their search for an alternate power source. Best of luck to
everyone out there ..... the ones that do and the ones that don't ....
have something different under the hood.
Linn ..... sorry for the long rant .... I was on a roll!
do not archive ....
Perry, Phil wrote:
>
>Comparing a car engine to an aircraft engine isn't a fair comparison.
>If you want to compare flying auto-conversions to Lyco's, then that's
>fine.
>
>1) How many of us driving V6's or 8's have temp gauges in every
>cylinder? - none
>
>2) How many of us have temp gauges installed in every exhaust port? -
>none
>
>3) How many of us know every idiosyncrasy our car engines to recognize
>when 1 cylinder is showing unusual signs of trouble? - none
>
>My point is that we don't care about our care engines like we care about
>our aircraft engines. As long as they run, we're happy. We really
>don't give a damn if they're running absolutely perfectly. Who cares if
>they have a weak or leaky cylinder that we don't know about? The truth
>is, when it comes to cars, what you don't know doesn't hurt you.
>
>It's a whole different ballgame when it's your life. Or your wife's
>life. Or your kids life. We all want to know EVERYTHING about our
>aircraft engines. We keep our eyes open for ANY trends that could tip
>us off to a failing engine. We keep them tuned meticulously, we
>maintain them meticulously, we install sensors in the heads, we install
>sensors in the exhaust, we know what our temps should be when things are
>right - we also know when something doesn't look right.
>
>We don't have that level of detail in our cars, so we don't do that with
>our cars. I'd bet that if we all could examine our car engines in
>aircraft-level-of-detail, nearly all of us would be driving on engines
>that are out of our airplane-worthy standards.
>
>So when I hear someone try and use the 'my car hasn't broken down'
>argument, I let it go in one ear an out the other.
>
>That's a terrible data point simply because you have no data to tell me
>exactly what the health of your car engine really is. As long as the
>check engine light stays off, we're happy.
>
>We don't watch our car engines like a hawk, but we do when they go into
>the airplanes that will be carrying our family.
>
>Phil
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jesse Saint [mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com]
>Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 9:00 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aerosport Testimonial - long
>
>
>I hate to get into this discussion, but just to throw in another point
>of view.
>
>How many GPH does the IO-540 burn at full throttle? About 26, give or
>take a few, right? How many GPH does everybody burn in cruise? I know
>Tim is usually in the 9-12 range, right? My dad keeps it under 10
>almost always and very often it is below 8. This is not anywhere near
>full throttle. I remember talking to Vic and I seem to remember he said
>he was averaging about 13. What are the recommendations for max
>continuous power for longest engine life? I am not by any means an
>expert, and it could very well be that aircraft engines are built to
>handle a higher percentage of continuous power. I know in turbo models
>they often run a lot higher power, but I also seem to hear stories of
>TIO's not getting the same life as IO's.
>
>I am definitely in the club of going with a standard engine that the
>plane was designed for from the start, but I also agree that those who
>want to experiment have every right to do so (with the usual caveats and
>disclaimers understood) in this experimental amateur-built category.
>When someone talks to me about helping them with a plane with an
>alternative engine installation, I usually say that I am not interested
>in the R&D involved, but that's just me.
>
>do not archive
>
>Jesse Saint
>Saint Aviation, Inc.
>jesse@saintaviation.com
>Cell: 352-427-0285
>Fax: 815-377-3694
>
>On Dec 6, 2007, at 8:56 PM, Dj Merrill wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>Scott Schmidt wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>If we all drove our cars around at full throttle, it wouldn't make it
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>>a week, maybe not even a day.
>>>
>>>
>>Hi Scott,
>> Do you have any data on this? I keep hearing people say this
>>
>>
>but I
>
>
>>can't seem to find any actual data to back it up. I'd greatly
>>appreciate it if you would be willing to send any information that you
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>have to help me in my research. I'm trying to learn as much about
>>this stuff as I can.
>>
>> Since the autoconversions are not flown at full throttle but
>>
>>
>rather
>
>
>>in the vicinity of 4000 RPM it doesn't really apply to the aircraft
>>application, but I'm still interested to see if one did want to run it
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>full throttle in a car just how long it might last.
>>
>> I've found some useful information on this web page
>>http://www.sdsefi.com/air51.htm but it would be great if someone had
>>more information to share about it.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>-Dj
>>
>>--
>>Dj Merrill
>>Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
>>http://deej.net/sportsman/
>>
>>"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of
>>an airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Aerosport Testimonial - long |
Not all auto conversions have cylinders :)
Sorry I just could not resist.
Bobby
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dj Merrill
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aerosport Testimonial - long
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Try doing a single-cylinder job on an auto conversion, and having the
> job be this small.
Hi Tim!
Since you couldn't resist mentioning the auto conversion, I
can't resist offering a good natured reply and offering some of my own
personal observations. :-)
In the 24 years or so that I've been driving, I've never once
had to have any cylinder, piston, or valve work done on any of the cars
that I've owned. In the 7 years that I have been flying, both airplanes
that I have owned have had to have engine work, one with the replacement
of a cylinder, piston and rings, and the other with valve problems.
From my perspective, it is rather dismaying that you have had to
have minor top end work done on your engine with just over 300 hours on
it, and in fact it was a year ago that it started to have issues, so you
actually had far less hours on it at the time.
On the positive side, Aerosport definitely gave you great
customer service! Hopefully you will be able to get everything back
together and running so you can take your Dad up flying. One of my
fondest memories was when I took my Mom up for her first flight with me.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Aerosport Testimonial - long |
Wait, you want real data and you went with an Egg?!? The man who refuses to
do any dyno runs and estimates his power output while (re)engineering on the fly
after he sold a package and then routinely delivers a year late?!? Sorry man,
I still like the idea of auto conversions but I just had to point that out.
One of Eggs chief reasons for not having any resemblance to a standardize configuration
is that the engine changes every year. Yet he is usually 1-2 years
behind a production run from the factory on delivery.
So something else to think about. Comparing a 500ish engine production run to
10's of thousands doesn't really give any real sense of reliability until you
do some averaging for real maint vs operational hours. I don't believe anyone
has actually done that.
I think Eggs engine has its place but it's not in heavy 4 seat aircraft. The
Sportsman is probably as big as I would consider.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dj Merrill
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aerosport Testimonial - long
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> We could have a little competition...
>
> How about we go out and gather firsthand reports from 20 Lycoming
> owners that made it 2000 hours with no work, and we go out
> and find 20 of ANY single auto conversion engine owners out there
> that needed no work after 2000 hours. ;)
Okay, you do the Subaru conversions, and I'll do the Lycomings... :-)
Honestly I was not (and am still not) trying to stir the pot. It is
just that reports like yours is one of the main reasons why I started
looking at Subaru conversions. I had two bad experiences (at 800 hours
on one engine, and about 1050 or so on the other). My local shop often
had a Lycoming engine in for top end work. It really started bothering me.
You are right, there are some engines that will make it to TBO, but I
just feel like it is a crap shoot. You had to do work at 300 hours, but
Jesse might make it all the way to TBO. There just doesn't seem to be
any good reasoning why one engine might make it and one might need
work. I'm fairly certain you take good care of your airplane and
engine, and it is unlikely that it was something that you did that
caused the problem (or was it? *grin*).
The Subaru might have problems as well. When it comes down to it, most
of us make decisions based on our personal experiences. None of my cars
has ever had to have engine work, and both of my airplanes have. It
might be irrational reasoning, but the picture in my head is tending
towards Subaru engines being more reliable than a typical Lycoming.
That's why I've been asking around for actual data and test results, if
anyone has any to share or can point me in the right direction. My
science background is telling me that I need real data, not subjective
WAGs... :-)
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: GPS on PDA/Phones |
Try www.pocketfms.com 30 days trial but be aware if the screen is less
then 3.5" you might look too much inside then outside :)
br Werner
McGANN, Ron wrote:
>
> A bit off topic, but I know there are a number of techno geeks like me
> on this list. I just upgraded my mobile phone to a PDA/Phone loaded
> with Windows Mobile 6. The device includes a GPS. (Available here in
> Oz as an HTC TyTN II) I was wondering whether anyone could share their
> experiences with these gadgets, or advise what sought of GPS software
> is best. Does Anywhere Map work on WM 6 based PDAs??
>
> Tia
> Ron
>
> Do not archive
>
> "Warning:
> The information contained in this email and any attached files is
> confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
> recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
> attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
> in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
> taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
> however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
> sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
> checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
> your computer."
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Who's got N410JA, that Grady just painted? (pictures on
vansairforce.net)
I like the Piper style vent windows in the windows! Can you share
information on how you did it, where you got the parts, costs, etc?
Looks nice!
TDT
40025
Tim Dawson-Townsend
Aurora Flight Sciences
tdt@aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Vent windows |
I don't think he follows this list....at least I've never
seen him post. His name is Don Orrick from my home state, WI.
Pretty paint though, isn't it.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Dawson-Townsend,Timothy wrote:
> Whos got N410JA, that Grady just painted? (pictures on vansairforce.net)
>
>
>
> I like the Piper style vent windows in the windows! Can you share
> information on how you did it, where you got the parts, costs, etc?
> Looks nice!
>
>
>
> TDT
>
> 40025
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Tim Dawson-Townsend
>
> Aurora Flight Sciences
>
> tdt@aurora.aero <mailto:tdt@aurora.aero>
>
> 617-500-4812 (office)
>
> 617-905-4800 (mobile)
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Aerosport Testimonial - long |
Spoken like a true rotor head. When are you bringing your 10 to the airport
for final assembly?
Mark
RV-10/N410MR<html><div></div>
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Aerosport Testimonial - long> Date: Fri, 7 Dec 20
07 08:32:21 -0600> From: bhughes@qnsi.net> To: rv10-list@matronics.com> > -
all auto conversions have cylinders :)> > Sorry I just could not resist.>
> Bobby> > > -----Original Message-----> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matro
nics.com> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dj Mer
rill> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 5:18 PM> To: rv10-list@matronics.co
m> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aerosport Testimonial - long> > --> RV10-List me
ssage posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>> > Tim Olson wrote:> > > > Try
doing a single-cylinder job on an auto conversion, and having the > > job b
e this small.> > Hi Tim!> Since you couldn't resist mentioning the auto con
version, I> can't resist offering a good natured reply and offering some of
my own> personal observations. :-)> > In the 24 years or so that I've been
driving, I've never once> had to have any cylinder, piston, or valve work
done on any of the cars> that I've owned. In the 7 years that I have been f
lying, both airplanes> that I have owned have had to have engine work, one
with the replacement> of a cylinder, piston and rings, and the other with v
alve problems.> > From my perspective, it is rather dismaying that you have
had to> have minor top end work done on your engine with just over 300 hou
rs on> it, and in fact it was a year ago that it started to have issues, so
you> actually had far less hours on it at the time.> > On the positive sid
e, Aerosport definitely gave you great> customer service! Hopefully you wil
l be able to get everything back> together and running so you can take your
Dad up flying. One of my> fondest memories was when I took my Mom up for h
er first flight with me.> > -Dj> > --> Dj Merrill> Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7
118> http://deej.net/sportsman/> > "Many things that are unexplainable happ
en during the construction of an> airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005> >
====> > >
_________________________________________________________________
You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the i=92m Init
iative now.
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
"2) How many of us have temp gauges installed in every exhaust port (of
car engine)? - none"
You might be surprised at how many modern engines are doing internal
monitoring of temperatures, etc., it's just that he engine control unit
is using that information and not sharing it with the driver . . .
TDT
40025
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Hi
A couple of weeks ago I asked about RivetHead Aero and door pins. I was
finally able to contact them (Dave's website was down for a few days for
some reason). I ordered the parts and they were mailed the next day and
arrived today.
I have bought Dave's parts before and highly recommend his workmanship. Just
order early and you will be happy!
Cheers
Les Kearney
Still singing the section 29 blues (but on the final few bars)
#40643
C-GCWZ (Reserved)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike
Sent: November-30-07 2:38 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Rivethead Aero
Got my set today - Happy camper (7 wks) :D :D :D :D
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=149682#149682
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long |
In a message dated 12/6/2007 7:15:22 PM Central Standard Time,
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com writes:
In the 24 years or so that I've been driving, I've never once had to
have any cylinder, piston, or valve work done on any of the cars that
I've owned. In the 7 years that I have been flying, both airplanes that
I have owned have had to have engine work, one with the replacement of a
cylinder, piston and rings, and the other with valve problems.
DJ...
How often do you accelerate your auto, from ground level to 2-4 miles above
the surface from where you started and how often does your car's engine
experience rapid temperature and pressure changes to it's block, and once you
start your car's engine do you immediately put the hammer down to max RPM to get
out of your driveway and then reduce power to 65-80% of it's maximum power
out put while giving the engine varying amounts of oxygen to react with?
There are many engines that will run for years and up to and beyond TBO's
without overhauls, but there are some that need more attention than others. If
you want to get maximum performance from your engine, fly it as often as
possible, daily if possible; change the oil and filter frequently and enjoy the
scenery below!
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long |
In a message dated 12/6/2007 8:16:54 PM Central Standard Time, deej@deej.net
writes:
Do you have any data on this? I keep hearing people say this but I
can't seem to find any actual data to back it up.
I've flown for years behind a 235hp O-540, the engine made TBO at 2,000+ was
rebuilt and is now about 650 hrs, it's a tough little engine...but if one
looks at the record of the same block producing 300+hp the reliability of the
engine is not quite as likely to make TBO without a top along the way. Talk
to owners of Cherokee 235 and Cherokee 6's (300)...both have O-540's in them.
I think we've yet to see many good auto engine conversions...the Mooney
Porsche was probably the largest "experiment" in regular GA aircraft.
P
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Aerosport Testimonial - long |
Hopefully after Christmas and before New Years. It would help if I would
stop finding ways to improve the radiator ducts :(
Bobby
(Never, every, every build a custom cowl)
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Ritter
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 10:00 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Aerosport Testimonial - long
Spoken like a true rotor head. When are you bringing your 10 to the
airport for final assembly?
Mark
RV-10/N410MR
<html><div></div>
________________________________
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Aerosport Testimonial - long
> Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 08:32:21 -0600
> From: bhughes@qnsi.net
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Not all auto conversions have cylinders :)
>
> Sorry I just could not resist.
>
> Bobby
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dj Merrill
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 5:18 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aerosport Testimonial - long
>
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
> >
> > Try doing a single-cylinder job on an auto conversion, and having
the
> > job be this small.
>
> Hi Tim!
> Since you couldn't resist mentioning the auto conversion, I
> can't resist offering a good natured reply and offering some of my own
> personal observations. :-)
>
> In the 24 years or so that I've been driving, I've never once
> had to have any cylinder, piston, or valve work done on any of the
cars
> that I've owned. In the 7 years that I have been flying, both
airplanes
> that I have owned have had to have engine work, one with the
replacement
> of a cylinder, piston and rings, and the other with valve problems.
>
> From my perspective, it is rather dismaying that you have had to
> have minor top end work done on your engine with just over 300 hours
on
> it, and in fact it was a year ago that it started to have issues, so
you
> actually had far less hours on it at the time.
>
> On the positive side, Aerosport definitely gave you great
> customer service! Hopefully you will be able to get everything back
> together and running so you can take your Dad up flying. One of my
> fondest memories was when I took my Mom up for her first flight with
me.
>
> -Dj
>
> --
> Dj Merrill
> Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
> http://deej.net/sportsman/
>
> "Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of
an
> airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
>
>
>======================
&g=============
>
>
>
________________________________
You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join
source=CRM_WL_joinnow' target='_new'>Join in!
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long |
Dj,
I'm glad that you know me and I know you and we have no worries
that this stuff is intended to offend anyone. I have fun with
the discussion, and any kind hearted jabs, so it's all good.
Regarding service during the lifetime, actually, this is the first
time in my life that any aircraft engine has given me issues.
So, it's new to me, but certainly the track record of Lycoming
and Continentals isn't all good. Esp. recently, in the crank
department. But, given the fact that you can indeed run these
engines at 100% power, and run them extended at 75-85% power,
I certainly don't expect them to be like a car that you can
milk to 200,000 or more miles. It's not living the life that
my old Nissan did.
But, looking at car histories, I've owned many cars in my
life....more than the average Joe, in fact. But none of
them ever has been run to the power and RPM extent (for any
extended time) that the auto conversion aircraft engines have.
If you could buy a car engine and run the thing without a
PRSU...do a direct drive auto conversion, I'd think that
success would be much easier to achieve...and that's success
in both longevity, and fuel economy. There are people with
VW engines, and corvair engines and things that run in
planes fine.
Now is where I have to be careful to not insult though...
I think a better comparison for service life for a
subaru isn't to compare it to a lycoming, but look at
some of the more equivalent situations. For instance,
compare it to the Rotax 912, or compare it if you're
staying land-based to things like a Snowmobile. An
aircraft engine conversion in a plane will NOT run anything
like a car engine will. My car doesn't even hit 2000rpm
in cruise at under 65mph. Towing my boat, I get 13mpg
in OD (not recommended) but boost that RPM over 3000
and pour on the power and I'm well under 10. It's just
the operational characteristic. My snowmobile doesn't
spend much time running slow...it's constantly being
pushed. (yeah, call me reckless) But, when you look
at those kinds of heavier uses, the outlook isn't so
shiny. I monitor the ArcticCat forum because I have
an issue with my 580 EFI sled right now. You see many
people with pistion, head, cylinder issues, and things
like that. I have a problem where a simple failure of
the coolant sensor caused my sled to finish spring 2007
after only 5 miles being put on it for the winter, to
end up parked in the middle of a field...because the
COMPUTER won't let it run. This same kind of thing
happened to my Nissan...a stinkin' sensor just made
it quit firing. Look at the Rotax service life. I
was a bit surprised to hear that the 4-strokes typical
rebuild is under 1000 hours. Yeah, just like the
auto conversion, it should be much cheaper, but it
does show that higher stresses put on engines don't
make for better longevity. This doesn't mean that you
won't get good life, or even beat me on the cost of
service for a 2000 hour total runtime, but I'd think
that my engine may at least spend a lesser number of
total days out of the air due to maintenance...because
one problem and you're likely to be down a long time.
You may, or may not, be able to pick up some of those
custom parts, and PRSU's, overnight, but any engine work
is going to require pulling the whole engine or at
least much more of it. So the task itself will be
larger. The point is, look at 4-stroke Rotax engines,
Boat engines, snowmobile engines, and things where
power is used more fully and you'll get a MUCH more
fair comparison in longevity to what you might see.
My Mastercraft has a 351 in it, but I know for certain
that the engine isn't going to make 2000 TBO. It runs
way too hard. I'm just glad it doesn't have electronic
controls on my old '88 MC, because the simplicity is
less likely to leave me stranded.
Sorry to drag on, but one of my first thoughts got
lost. Cooling. Looking at the many cars I have driven,
and in fact, 2 out of the 3 of our current cars, I've had
a very poor track record of cooling issues. My current
van won't hold coolant well enough to keep my heater
core filled. It can be hard to track down. (it should
be easier on a plane) My wife's car occasionally spews
over coolant out a relief valve, but doesn't seem to have
any other leaks. But, looking at past cars I've had
numerous issues with cooling leaks and water pump
seals and things like that. I know it gives better
heat stability so it's a good thing to have liquid
cooling, but it isn't a total panacea either. That's
probably the reason Lyc's need more clearances, is because
of heating and cooling. But, snowmobiles and boats
are liquid cooled too and it doesn't add tons to
their service life.
Anyway, that's all just misc. ramblings from a crazy
person who just got older today. I hope that people
who may be offended are using their Delete key effectively. ;)
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Dj Merrill wrote:
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
>>
>> We could have a little competition...
>>
>> How about we go out and gather firsthand reports from 20 Lycoming
>> owners that made it 2000 hours with no work, and we go out
>> and find 20 of ANY single auto conversion engine owners out there
>> that needed no work after 2000 hours. ;)
>
> Okay, you do the Subaru conversions, and I'll do the Lycomings... :-)
>
> Honestly I was not (and am still not) trying to stir the pot. It is
> just that reports like yours is one of the main reasons why I started
> looking at Subaru conversions. I had two bad experiences (at 800 hours
> on one engine, and about 1050 or so on the other). My local shop often
> had a Lycoming engine in for top end work. It really started bothering me.
>
> You are right, there are some engines that will make it to TBO, but I
> just feel like it is a crap shoot. You had to do work at 300 hours, but
> Jesse might make it all the way to TBO. There just doesn't seem to be
> any good reasoning why one engine might make it and one might need
> work. I'm fairly certain you take good care of your airplane and
> engine, and it is unlikely that it was something that you did that
> caused the problem (or was it? *grin*).
>
> The Subaru might have problems as well. When it comes down to it, most
> of us make decisions based on our personal experiences. None of my cars
> has ever had to have engine work, and both of my airplanes have. It
> might be irrational reasoning, but the picture in my head is tending
> towards Subaru engines being more reliable than a typical Lycoming.
> That's why I've been asking around for actual data and test results, if
> anyone has any to share or can point me in the right direction. My
> science background is telling me that I need real data, not subjective
> WAGs... :-)
>
> -Dj
>
>
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long |
Because of the lack of volume in auto engine conversions vs Lycoming good hard
data is very hard to come by. Additionally the data is not all measured and reported
in a consistant way as to allow a good thorough analysis.
I would advise anyone going down the auto conversion road to understand that we
know a whole lot less about conversions than we know about Lycomings. So as
they say you are on your own.
The other factor is that the conversion business seems to have quite a few folks
of less than stellar integrety. So many claims have been made and so many people
burned that it is not for the faint of heart to go this route.
Good luck as you sort all this out.
Gary
Frozen in MN
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
> >
> > We could have a little competition...
> >
> > How about we go out and gather firsthand reports from 20 Lycoming
> > owners that made it 2000 hours with no work, and we go out
> > and find 20 of ANY single auto conversion engine owners out there
> > that needed no work after 2000 hours. ;)
>
> Okay, you do the Subaru conversions, and I'll do the Lycomings... :-)
>
> Honestly I was not (and am still not) trying to stir the pot. It is
> just that reports like yours is one of the main reasons why I started
> looking at Subaru conversions. I had two bad experiences (at 800 hours
> on one engine, and about 1050 or so on the other). My local shop often
> had a Lycoming engine in for top end work. It really started bothering me.
>
> You are right, there are some engines that will make it to TBO, but I
> just feel like it is a crap shoot. You had to do work at 300 hours, but
> Jesse might make it all the way to TBO. There just doesn't seem to be
> any good reasoning why one engine might make it and one might need
> work. I'm fairly certain you take good care of your airplane and
> engine, and it is unlikely that it was something that you did that
> caused the problem (or was it? *grin*).
>
> The Subaru might have problems as well. When it comes down to it, most
> of us make decisions based on our personal experiences. None of my cars
> has ever had to have engine work, and both of my airplanes have. It
> might be irrational reasoning, but the picture in my head is tending
> towards Subaru engines being more reliable than a typical Lycoming.
> That's why I've been asking around for actual data and test results, if
> anyone has any to share or can point me in the right direction. My
> science background is telling me that I need real data, not subjective
> WAGs... :-)
>
> -Dj
>
>
> --
> Dj Merrill
> Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
> http://deej.net/sportsman/
>
> "Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
> airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
>
>
>
>
<html><body>
<DIV>Because of the lack of volume in auto engine conversions vs Lycoming good
hard data is very hard to come by. Additionally the data is not all measured
and reported in a consistant way as to allow a good thorough analysis.
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I would advise anyone going down the auto conversion road to understand that
we know a whole lot less about conversions than we know about Lycomings.
So as they say you are on your own. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The other factor is that the conversion business seems to have quite a few
folks of less than stellar integrety. So many claims have been made and
so many people burned that it is not for the faint of heart to go this route.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Good luck as you sort all this out.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Gary</DIV>
<DIV>Frozen in MN</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
<BR><BR>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill
<DEEJ@DEEJ.NET><BR>> <BR>> Tim Olson wrote: <BR>> > --> RV10-List
message posted by: Tim Olson <TIM@MYRV10.COM><BR>> > <BR>> >
We could have a little competition... <BR>> > <BR>> > How about we
go out and gather firsthand reports from 20 Lycoming <BR>> > owners that
made it 2000 hours with no work, and we go out <BR>> > and find 20 of
ANY single auto conversion engine owners out there <BR>> > that needed
no work after 2000 hours. ;) <BR>> <BR>> Okay, you do the Subaru conversions,
and I'll do the Lycomings... :-) <BR>> <BR>> Honestly I was not (and
am still not) trying to stir the pot. It is <BR>> just that reports like
yours is one of the main reasons why I started <BR>&
gt; lo
oking at Subaru conversions. I had two bad experiences (at 800 hours <BR>> on
one engine, and about 1050 or so on the other). My local shop often <BR>>
had a Lycoming engine in for top end work. It really started bothering me. <BR>>
<BR>> You are right, there are some engines that will make it to TBO,
but I <BR>> just feel like it is a crap shoot. You had to do work at 300
hours, but <BR>> Jesse might make it all the way to TBO. There just doesn't
seem to be <BR>> any good reasoning why one engine might make it and one might
need <BR>> work. I'm fairly certain you take good care of your airplane
and <BR>> engine, and it is unlikely that it was something that you did that
<BR>> caused the problem (or was it? *grin*). <BR>> <BR>> The Subaru
might have problems as well. When it comes down to it, most <BR>> of us
make decisions based on our personal experiences. None of my cars <BR>> has
ever had to have engine work, and both of my airpla
nes ha
the Co
.matro
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Forget about the side windows, how about that Pimple on the belly. I
assume it's Air Conditioning.
I can't wait for mine to be painted.... One day...
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Dawson-Townsend,Timothy
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 7:45 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Vent windows
Who's got N410JA, that Grady just painted? (pictures on
vansairforce.net)
I like the Piper style vent windows in the windows! Can you share
information on how you did it, where you got the parts, costs, etc?
Looks nice!
TDT
40025
Tim Dawson-Townsend
Aurora Flight Sciences
tdt@aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long |
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Dj,
>
> I'm glad that you know me and I know you and we have no worries
> that this stuff is intended to offend anyone. I have fun with
> the discussion, and any kind hearted jabs, so it's all good.
That's why I wasn't worried about posting. I'm just trying to learn
as much about this as I can, and I was confident you would not take
offense at my reply.
You should see the responses when I asked about using mogas with 10%
ethanol in it... *grin* Yes, believe it or not, you can design an
aircraft fuel system to use this fuel safely, but it took me several
months of research to find out how to do it (and part of that solution
involves the use of the Subaru engine), along with several e-mail
conversations with the very few people that are doing research and
experimenting with ethanol based fuels. Actual data on this topic is
very hard to find, but opinions are as common as water in the NorthWest
right now... :-)
My ultimate goal is to have my Sportsman on amphibious floats, and
have the option of refueling at a boat marina. I also wanted to be able
to use the same fuel as an automobile, thinking along the lines of long
term availability. At this point I am fairly confident that I can
accomplish this.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long |
I had an IO-540 in my Saratoga and at 1140 hrs it wound up being time for an overhaul
due to the spalling on the camshft.
Bob
In a message dated 12/6/2007 8:16:54 PM Central Standard Time, deej@deej.net writes:
Do you have any data on this?? I keep hearing people say this but I
can't seem to find any actual data to back it up.
I've flown for years behind a 235hp O-540, the engine made TBO at 2,000+ was rebuilt
and is now about 650 hrs, it's a tough little engine...but if one looks
at the record of the same block producing 300+hp the reliability of the engine
is not quite as likely to make TBO without a top along the way.? Talk to owners
of Cherokee 235 and Cherokee 6's (300)...both have O-540's in them.? I think
we've yet to see many good auto engine conversions...the Mooney Porsche was
probably the largest "experiment" in regular GA aircraft.
?
P
-----Original Message-----
From: GRANSCOTT@aol.com
Sent: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 12:12 pm
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aerosport Testimonial - long
In a message dated 12/6/2007 8:16:54 PM Central Standard Time, deej@deej.net writes:
Do you have any data on this?? I keep hearing people say this but I
can't seem to find any actual data to back it up.
I've flown for years behind a 235hp O-540, the engine made TBO at 2,000+ was rebuilt
and is now about 650 hrs, it's a tough little engine...but if one looks
at the record of the same block producing 300+hp the reliability of the engine
is not quite as likely to make TBO without a top along the way.? Talk to owners
of Cherokee 235 and Cherokee 6's (300)...both have O-540's in them.? I think
we've yet to see many good auto engine conversions...the Mooney Porsche was
probably the largest "experiment" in regular GA aircraft.
?
P
hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.
________________________________________________________________________
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Aerosport Testimonial - long |
I have a TIO-540 that only lasted 700 hours but that was because someone
slammed into the spinner while tied down. This had adverse effects on
the on the crank and $45,000 later I was flying again. Yes... Hit & Run.
That is when I decided I needed a hangar. $300K later I have a hangar.
Now I understand that my 50' door is not engineered properly and someday
may fall off and hit... my spinner.
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
nyterminat@aol.com
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aerosport Testimonial - long
I had an IO-540 in my Saratoga and at 1140 hrs it wound up being time
for an overhaul due to the spalling on the camshft.
Bob
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: GPS on PDA/Phones |
The best source of info that I've found is on pdaphonehome.com
Unfortunately, Verizon here in the US is about a year behind on releasing HTC phones.
They just released the Model (6800) last week.
>
> From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann@baesystems.com>
> Date: 2007/12/06 Thu PM 08:49:32 EST
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: GPS on PDA/Phones
>
> A bit off topic, but I know there are a number of techno geeks like me
> on this list. I just upgraded my mobile phone to a PDA/Phone loaded
> with Windows Mobile 6. The device includes a GPS. (Available here in Oz
> as an HTC TyTN II) I was wondering whether anyone could share their
> experiences with these gadgets, or advise what sought of GPS software is
> best. Does Anywhere Map work on WM 6 based PDAs??
>
> Tia
> Ron
>
> Do not archive
>
> "Warning:
> The information contained in this email and any attached files is
> confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
> recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
> attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
> in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
> taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
> however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
> sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
> checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
> your computer."
>
>
>
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | fuel lines, tunnel to wing |
If you builders can find other RV-10 builders who ignore this maxim.
Either conclude they understand little on fluid dynamics or they are
just uninformed and need to open the book for a refresher. The danger
is just not worth it. Pictures of tunnels can show a lot about
understanding tubing bends and use of flex tubing. Ben's edit is DEAD
ON. "Never".
John Hilger's tunnel is one of the most beautiful jobs I have laid eyes
on yet. John... its time to post a picture or two as a tease for
clarification.
John Cox
#40600
KUAO
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MauleDriver
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: fuel lines, tunnel to wing
MauleDriver wrote:
I came to understand the purpose of this istem 43.13 before I knew it
was a standard. I found it aggravating to no end that none of the
components of the fuel system that reside in the tunnel are lined up.
Each one (boost pump, filter, flow meter) are all misaligned slightly so
one can never "install a straight length of tubing between two rigidly
mounted fittings". the fittings all require a job in the tubing
between them.
I did the same bulkhead fitting thing that Bob and others have done.
Note that there are 90 degree bends in both pieces of tubing so it would
appear to conform to 8-31. Bob did a real nice job on the bushings so
that there are 2 inner bushing to keep the fitting centered in the
oversize hole, and 2 outer bushing to capture it in the hole. I took a
simpler route and just used 2 outer bushing that depend on being clamped
in place by the nut on the bulkhead fitting. Given 8-31, the lazy
approach would possibly provide even greater allowance for vibration and
temperature changes. Though I would emphasize there is no need for this
in this situation. And Bob's bushings really looks like the proper way
to do it.
Overall, I'm thinking that the bulkhead fitting is the best way to
handle this situation next to Van's original design. It simplies the
bending required and facilitates installation of the Andair valve. It
does add more points of possible failure.
Bill Watson
Ben Westfall wrote:
I have been fretting over the fuel line installation lately and I too
have considered installing standard bulkhead fittings in some similar
fashion. The one thing that has kept me from making up my mind and
doing this is the following from the 43.13. I don't think this was
mentioned in the last go around on fuel lines so I thought I would bring
it up.
Chapter 8, Section 3, Paragraph 8-31, part c Alignment states:
"Never install a straight length of tubing between two rigidly mounted
fittings. Always incorporate at least one bend between such fittings to
absorb strain caused by vibration and temperature changes."
Does the fitting in the tunnel wall qualify as a rigidly mounted? If so
does anyone "in the know" know what qualifies as a proper bend? I am
wondering if this is the primary reason for the way Vans has done it
without fittings? I'm curious of others thoughts.
Ben Westfall
#40579
PDX
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | GPS on PDA/Phones |
Ya, that's why I usually go to eBay to get my phones. You pay a little more but
at least you can get modern phones. Bonus now that US GSM providers are going
to "officially" allow unlocked phones on their networks.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rv@thelefflers.com
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: GPS on PDA/Phones
The best source of info that I've found is on pdaphonehome.com
Unfortunately, Verizon here in the US is about a year behind on releasing HTC phones.
They just released the Model (6800) last week.
>
> From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann@baesystems.com>
> Date: 2007/12/06 Thu PM 08:49:32 EST
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: GPS on PDA/Phones
>
> A bit off topic, but I know there are a number of techno geeks like me
> on this list. I just upgraded my mobile phone to a PDA/Phone loaded
> with Windows Mobile 6. The device includes a GPS. (Available here in Oz
> as an HTC TyTN II) I was wondering whether anyone could share their
> experiences with these gadgets, or advise what sought of GPS software is
> best. Does Anywhere Map work on WM 6 based PDAs??
>
> Tia
> Ron
>
> Do not archive
>
> "Warning:
> The information contained in this email and any attached files is
> confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
> recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
> attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
> in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
> taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
> however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
> sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
> checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
> your computer."
>
>
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
The mandate is for All gasoline products sold by retailers, wholesalers
within the boundaries of the State of Orygun and provides no exemption.
Here attached is the latest from the Department of Agriculture meeting
this week. They will administer the Greenies legislation which was
submitted by the governor through the Department of Energy. All
lawnmowers, recreational toys, landscape implements, chain saws, boats,
airplanes and all other such "Spark Ignited" internal combustion engines
are lumped into the convoluted definition of motor vehicles requiring
the Greenie Fuel. My partner in the Oregon Pilots Association - Dave
Martin corrects me that neither of us have been contacted by EAA nor are
we representing their interests on this important legislation. We are
representing the Oregon Pilots and boy I hope you all enjoy flying
through Orygun starting in a month.
Now if only Dave Hertner can get his Brayton Cycle Alternate RV-10
powerplant operational we can get Michael Sausen involved again. (Just
kidding Michael).
Follow Montana's lead and get a pre-emptive bill on the books before the
Greenies push us into the Ice Age.
John
RV-10 #40600
VP Legislative Affairs and other types too for Oregon Pilots Association
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
McMullen
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
John, I saw on another list that the OR ethanol mandate was ONLY for
Mogas, not Avgas. Of course that still leaves all the STC'd folks and
LSA folks in trouble, as well as the marine folks. I'll have to ask what
folks around my home drome do, since we have 10% for all the winter
months, mandatory, but optional in the summer.
On 12/3/07, Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, I doubt that ethanol will be mandated nationwide, simply because
there isn't a viable production capacity at least until they solve
cellulosic ethanol, as there isn't enough corn and much of the
environmental community recognizes that corn derived ethanol at any
higher than production levels is an environmental disaster. Not to
mention that it does very little to increase overall fuel supplies.
Hmm, can we spell serious problems for LSA if Rotax really has a problem
with Avgas?
Where is the boating community on this? Can't imagine it causing
anything but trouble for fuel tanks and engines next to water.
On 12/3/07, John W. Cox < johnwcox@pacificnw.com
<mailto:johnwcox@pacificnw.com> > wrote:
Let's take it the next step Kelly to mandate MOGAS has 10% + Ethanol in
all 50 states. Now all of those Peterson and EAA STCed aircraft
refueling in Orygun will pass Ethanol through the lines, seals and over
the gaskets. Rotax requires not more than 50% Avgas to be added to
Mogas or extensive additional repair work is required.
Dave Martin (EAA 78011) representing the EAA will make the plea tomorrow
before this panel of idiots. These are politicians I have not voted
for, do not endorse and know little of the consequence of their action
to revenue collection reductions, negative mpact to tourism and economic
develop and aviation safety. We will soon be the Western Appalachia of
the US of A. There is a distinct possibility that one of the
politicians is the son of the acting Director of Aviation.
The Greenies are everywhere. Be vigilant out there. It is soon to be
an election year.
John (EAA 565497)
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
Oh and Kelly, the bill's intent was to force immediate production (40
million Gallons) and provide immediate tax incentives to begin the
product from Oregon grain and other such Oregon Green waste. They
wanted a quiet adoption without public dissent.
The Oregon fishing community that has not already gone diesel, is sunk
(If you will excuse the pun). Oh Yeh, the bill mandates biomass for
diesel too. The City of Portland mandated biofuel for their fleet of
Freightliner Sprinter trucks which required them to drive to Washington
to refuel. Seems the engine manufacturer would invalidate the
warrantee. We got that one modified. They are also trying to block the
wind turbine construction to protect the birds out here.
Along with building an ARK, I am getting a REALLY, REALLY BIG compost
pile ready for the second coming next to my shop. And my neighbors
thought that riveting was unusual. For those of you that are sick
puppies and want to see what is coming your way (Michigan), I have
attached this monstrosity. Anyone for a Flux Capacitor?
This is for all gasoline products. Jet A may be safe for a year or two.
John
Please Do Not Archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
McMullen
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
John, I saw on another list that the OR ethanol mandate was ONLY for
Mogas, not Avgas. Of course that still leaves all the STC'd folks and
LSA folks in trouble, as well as the marine folks. I'll have to ask what
folks around my home drome do, since we have 10% for all the winter
months, mandatory, but optional in the summer.
On 12/3/07, Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, I doubt that ethanol will be mandated nationwide, simply because
there isn't a viable production capacity at least until they solve
cellulosic ethanol, as there isn't enough corn and much of the
environmental community recognizes that corn derived ethanol at any
higher than production levels is an environmental disaster. Not to
mention that it does very little to increase overall fuel supplies.
Hmm, can we spell serious problems for LSA if Rotax really has a problem
with Avgas?
Where is the boating community on this? Can't imagine it causing
anything but trouble for fuel tanks and engines next to water.
On 12/3/07, John W. Cox < johnwcox@pacificnw.com
<mailto:johnwcox@pacificnw.com> > wrote:
Let's take it the next step Kelly to mandate MOGAS has 10% + Ethanol in
all 50 states. Now all of those Peterson and EAA STCed aircraft
refueling in Orygun will pass Ethanol through the lines, seals and over
the gaskets. Rotax requires not more than 50% Avgas to be added to
Mogas or extensive additional repair work is required.
Dave Martin (EAA 78011) representing the EAA will make the plea tomorrow
before this panel of idiots. These are politicians I have not voted
for, do not endorse and know little of the consequence of their action
to revenue collection reductions, negative mpact to tourism and economic
develop and aviation safety. We will soon be the Western Appalachia of
the US of A. There is a distinct possibility that one of the
politicians is the son of the acting Director of Aviation.
The Greenies are everywhere. Be vigilant out there. It is soon to be
an election year.
John (EAA 565497)
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Trouble with riveting on rear spar at flap bracket. |
I am having a difficult time rivetting in this area. On the rear spar where
the flap bracket is, rivetting the skin in this area is difficult because
there is not much room between the rivet and the flap extension arm. I seem
to not have an appropriate fitting for the rivet gun for this area. The st
andard gun fittings are too wide and require the gun handle to be angled ba
ck toward the flap bracket and the bracket will not allow this to happen. W
hen I tried to drive the rivit it didn't sit flush. Drilling it out was a t
ask in itself.
Any suggestions, what am I missing.
Thanks,
JOhn G.
Message 26
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
Hi John,
I'm not reading this the way you are (though I've not read it cover
to cover). Can you direct me to the specific section that prohibits
Av Gas from being sold?
Jeff Carpenter
40304
On Dec 7, 2007, at 4:43 PM, John W. Cox wrote:
> Oh and Kelly, the bill=92s intent was to force immediate production
> (40 million Gallons) and provide immediate tax incentives to begin
> the product from Oregon grain and other such Oregon Green waste.
> They wanted a quiet adoption without public dissent.
>
>
> The Oregon fishing community that has not already gone diesel, is
> sunk (If you will excuse the pun). Oh Yeh, the bill mandates
> biomass for diesel too. The City of Portland mandated biofuel for
> their fleet of Freightliner Sprinter trucks which required them to
> drive to Washington to refuel. Seems the engine manufacturer would
> invalidate the warrantee. We got that one modified. They are also
> trying to block the wind turbine construction to protect the birds
> out here.
>
>
> Along with building an ARK, I am getting a REALLY, REALLY BIG
> compost pile ready for the second coming next to my shop. And my
> neighbors thought that riveting was unusual. For those of you that
> are sick puppies and want to see what is coming your way
> (Michigan), I have attached this monstrosity. Anyone for a Flux
> Capacitor?
>
>
> This is for all gasoline products. Jet A may be safe for a year or
> two.
>
>
> John
>
> Please Do Not Archive
>
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 8:34 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
>
>
> John, I saw on another list that the OR ethanol mandate was ONLY
> for Mogas, not Avgas. Of course that still leaves all the STC'd
> folks and LSA folks in trouble, as well as the marine folks. I'll
> have to ask what folks around my home drome do, since we have 10%
> for all the winter months, mandatory, but optional in the summer.
>
> On 12/3/07, Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Well, I doubt that ethanol will be mandated nationwide, simply
> because there isn't a viable production capacity at least until
> they solve cellulosic ethanol, as there isn't enough corn and much
> of the environmental community recognizes that corn derived ethanol
> at any higher than production levels is an environmental disaster.
> Not to mention that it does very little to increase overall fuel
> supplies.
> Hmm, can we spell serious problems for LSA if Rotax really has a
> problem with Avgas?
> Where is the boating community on this? Can't imagine it causing
> anything but trouble for fuel tanks and engines next to water.
>
> On 12/3/07, John W. Cox < johnwcox@pacificnw.com> wrote:
>
> Let's take it the next step Kelly to mandate MOGAS has 10% +
> Ethanol in all 50 states. Now all of those Peterson and EAA STCed
> aircraft refueling in Orygun will pass Ethanol through the lines,
> seals and over the gaskets. Rotax requires not more than 50% Avgas
> to be added to Mogas or extensive additional repair work is required.
>
>
> Dave Martin (EAA 78011) representing the EAA will make the plea
> tomorrow before this panel of idiots. These are politicians I have
> not voted for, do not endorse and know little of the consequence of
> their action to revenue collection reductions, negative mpact to
> tourism and economic develop and aviation safety. We will soon be
> the Western Appalachia of the US of A. There is a distinct
> possibility that one of the politicians is the son of the acting
> Director of Aviation.
>
>
> The Greenies are everywhere. Be vigilant out there. It is soon to
> be an election year.
>
>
> John (EAA 565497)
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
> <hb2210.b.pdf>
Message 27
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Trouble with riveting on rear spar at flap bracket. |
I can recall clearly the frustration at that same point. I wish I could
recall as clearly what I did about it. As near as I can recall, I didn't
find any magic bullet, but ended up using a flush rivet set and trying
to keep it as close to flat as possible even though it necessarily
needed to be a little offset. I just went out and checked, and sure
enough I've got a couple of 'dings' in this area. Thanks heavens for filler!
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
John Gonzalez wrote:
> I am having a difficult time rivetting in this area. On the rear spar
> where the flap bracket is, rivetting the skin in this area is
> difficult because there is not much room between the rivet and the
> flap extension arm. I seem to not have an appropriate fitting for the
> rivet gun for this area. The standard gun fittings are too wide and
> require the gun handle to be angled back toward the flap bracket and
> the bracket will not allow this to happen. When I tried to drive the
> rivit it didn't sit flush. Drilling it out was a task in itself.
>
> Any suggestions, what am I missing.
>
> Thanks,
>
> JOhn G.
> *
>
>
> *
Message 28
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Trouble with riveting on rear spar at flap bracket. |
I even tried a back rivet set on the manufactured head, but I had to use my
huge, long offset and that dam thing never worked with my #2 rivet gun. St
ill don't have any dings but I need to find a way. Tried to hit with the gu
n on a bucking bar on the outside while bucking on the inside...didn't work
.
They had perfectly set rivets on the inboard skin, inboard flap extention a
rea on these QB wings. How did those Philipino workers do it?????
Thanks, Deems
JOhn> Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 19:02:27 -0700> From: deemsdavis@cox.net> To: r
v10-list@matronics.com> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Trouble with riveting on re
eemsdavis@cox.net>> > I can recall clearly the frustration at that same poi
nt. I wish I could > recall as clearly what I did about it. As near as I ca
n recall, I didn't > find any magic bullet, but ended up using a flush rive
t set and trying > to keep it as close to flat as possible even though it n
ecessarily > needed to be a little offset. I just went out and checked, and
sure > enough I've got a couple of 'dings' in this area. Thanks heavens fo
r filler!> > > Deems Davis # 406> 'Its all done....Its just not put togethe
r'> http://deemsrv10.com/> > > John Gonzalez wrote:> > I am having a diffic
ult time rivetting in this area. On the rear spar > > where the flap bracke
t is, rivetting the skin in this area is > > difficult because there is not
much room between the rivet and the > > flap extension arm. I seem to not
have an appropriate fitting for the > > rivet gun for this area. The standa
rd gun fittings are too wide and > > require the gun handle to be angled ba
ck toward the flap bracket and > > the bracket will not allow this to happe
n. When I tried to drive the > > rivit it didn't sit flush. Drilling it out
was a task in itself.> > > > Any suggestions, what am I missing.> > > > Th
==============> > >
Message 29
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Trouble with riveting on rear spar at flap bracket. |
Seems I need a long flush set for the gun.
JOhn> Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 19:02:27 -0700> From: deemsdavis@cox.net> To: r
v10-list@matronics.com> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Trouble with riveting on re
eemsdavis@cox.net>> > I can recall clearly the frustration at that same poi
nt. I wish I could > recall as clearly what I did about it. As near as I ca
n recall, I didn't > find any magic bullet, but ended up using a flush rive
t set and trying > to keep it as close to flat as possible even though it n
ecessarily > needed to be a little offset. I just went out and checked, and
sure > enough I've got a couple of 'dings' in this area. Thanks heavens fo
r filler!> > > Deems Davis # 406> 'Its all done....Its just not put togethe
r'> http://deemsrv10.com/> > > John Gonzalez wrote:> > I am having a diffic
ult time rivetting in this area. On the rear spar > > where the flap bracke
t is, rivetting the skin in this area is > > difficult because there is not
much room between the rivet and the > > flap extension arm. I seem to not
have an appropriate fitting for the > > rivet gun for this area. The standa
rd gun fittings are too wide and > > require the gun handle to be angled ba
ck toward the flap bracket and > > the bracket will not allow this to happe
n. When I tried to drive the > > rivit it didn't sit flush. Drilling it out
was a task in itself.> > > > Any suggestions, what am I missing.> > > > Th
==============> > >
Message 30
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
Wow, you need to get HBO or Showtime on a Friday night.
Page 7 lines 12 and 13 - Definition of Gasoline.
Page 7 lines 16 and 17 - ALL spark ignited internal combustion motors
operating in Orygun. This includes all aerocraft engines using spark
ignition.
Page 9 line 37 and 38 - Gasoline must contain 10 percent ethanol by
volume. Good bye EAA and Peterson STCs for MOGAS use in Orygun.
The legislature adjourned and the Governor signed the bill on September
27th, 2007. The effective date is January 28th, 2008. The mandate hits
on July 15th, 2008. The next Department of Agriculture meeting is
scheduled for Wednesday, December 12 at 9AM located at 635 Capitol
Street, Salem, OR. I will forward more then for your next Friday Night
at the Movies. By ordinance AVGAS as we know it is gasoline for
Department of Agriculture interpretation. We are hoping to create an
exemption whereby FBOs could invest in a non Ethanol tank system in
addition to the mandatory ethanol laden Greenie concoction. The EAA is
not represented in these discussions.
Back to shoveling my compost pile to speed the process. And to think I
used to be looking for a pony in all this stuff.
John
Do not Archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Carpenter
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
Hi John,
I'm not reading this the way you are (though I've not read it cover to
cover). Can you direct me to the specific section that prohibits Av Gas
from being sold?
Jeff Carpenter
40304
On Dec 7, 2007, at 4:43 PM, John W. Cox wrote:
Oh and Kelly, the bill's intent was to force immediate production (40
million Gallons) and provide immediate tax incentives to begin the
product from Oregon grain and other such Oregon Green waste. They
wanted a quiet adoption without public dissent.
The Oregon fishing community that has not already gone diesel, is sunk
(If you will excuse the pun). Oh Yeh, the bill mandates biomass for
diesel too. The City of Portland mandated biofuel for their fleet of
Freightliner Sprinter trucks which required them to drive to Washington
to refuel. Seems the engine manufacturer would invalidate the
warrantee. We got that one modified. They are also trying to block the
wind turbine construction to protect the birds out here.
Along with building an ARK, I am getting a REALLY, REALLY BIG compost
pile ready for the second coming next to my shop. And my neighbors
thought that riveting was unusual. For those of you that are sick
puppies and want to see what is coming your way (Michigan), I have
attached this monstrosity. Anyone for a Flux Capacitor?
This is for all gasoline products. Jet A may be safe for a year or two.
John
Please Do Not Archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
McMullen
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
John, I saw on another list that the OR ethanol mandate was ONLY for
Mogas, not Avgas. Of course that still leaves all the STC'd folks and
LSA folks in trouble, as well as the marine folks. I'll have to ask what
folks around my home drome do, since we have 10% for all the winter
months, mandatory, but optional in the summer.
On 12/3/07, Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, I doubt that ethanol will be mandated nationwide, simply because
there isn't a viable production capacity at least until they solve
cellulosic ethanol, as there isn't enough corn and much of the
environmental community recognizes that corn derived ethanol at any
higher than production levels is an environmental disaster. Not to
mention that it does very little to increase overall fuel supplies.
Hmm, can we spell serious problems for LSA if Rotax really has a problem
with Avgas?
Where is the boating community on this? Can't imagine it causing
anything but trouble for fuel tanks and engines next to water.
On 12/3/07, John W. Cox < johnwcox@pacificnw.com
<mailto:johnwcox@pacificnw.com> > wrote:
Let's take it the next step Kelly to mandate MOGAS has 10% + Ethanol in
all 50 states. Now all of those Peterson and EAA STCed aircraft
refueling in Orygun will pass Ethanol through the lines, seals and over
the gaskets. Rotax requires not more than 50% Avgas to be added to
Mogas or extensive additional repair work is required.
Dave Martin (EAA 78011) representing the EAA will make the plea tomorrow
before this panel of idiots. These are politicians I have not voted
for, do not endorse and know little of the consequence of their action
to revenue collection reductions, negative mpact to tourism and economic
develop and aviation safety. We will soon be the Western Appalachia of
the US of A. There is a distinct possibility that one of the
politicians is the son of the acting Director of Aviation.
The Greenies are everywhere. Be vigilant out there. It is soon to be
an election year.
John (EAA 565497)
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 31
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
John,
The engine is going to be developed by another Canadian company with
very deep pockets. I , unfortunately did not end up with the rites to
the technology for that application but that is OK as long as someone is
doing it. This is a very good development indeed.
Dave
do not archive
John W. Cox wrote:
>
> The mandate is for All gasoline products sold by retailers,
> wholesalers within the boundaries of the State of Orygun and provides
> no exemption. Here attached is the latest from the Department of
> Agriculture meeting this week. They will administer the Greenies
> legislation which was submitted by the governor through the Department
> of Energy. All lawnmowers, recreational toys, landscape implements,
> chain saws, boats, airplanes and all other such "Spark Ignited"
> internal combustion engines are lumped into the convoluted definition
> of motor vehicles requiring the Greenie Fuel. My partner in the
> Oregon Pilots Association -- Dave Martin corrects me that neither of
> us have been contacted by EAA nor are we representing their interests
> on this important legislation. We are representing the Oregon Pilots
> and boy I hope you all enjoy flying through Orygun starting in a month.
>
>
>
> Now if only Dave Hertner can get his Brayton Cycle Alternate RV-10
> powerplant operational we can get Michael Sausen involved again.
> (Just kidding Michael).
>
>
>
> Follow Montana's lead and get a pre-emptive bill on the books before
> the Greenies push us into the Ice Age.
>
>
>
> John
>
> RV-10 #40600
>
> VP Legislative Affairs and other types too for Oregon Pilots Association
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Kelly
> McMullen
> *Sent:* Monday, December 03, 2007 8:34 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
>
>
>
> John, I saw on another list that the OR ethanol mandate was ONLY for
> Mogas, not Avgas. Of course that still leaves all the STC'd folks and
> LSA folks in trouble, as well as the marine folks. I'll have to ask
> what folks around my home drome do, since we have 10% for all the
> winter months, mandatory, but optional in the summer.
>
> On 12/3/07, *Kelly McMullen* <apilot2@gmail.com
> <mailto:apilot2@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Well, I doubt that ethanol will be mandated nationwide, simply because
> there isn't a viable production capacity at least until they solve
> cellulosic ethanol, as there isn't enough corn and much of the
> environmental community recognizes that corn derived ethanol at any
> higher than production levels is an environmental disaster. Not to
> mention that it does very little to increase overall fuel supplies.
> Hmm, can we spell serious problems for LSA if Rotax really has a
> problem with Avgas?
> Where is the boating community on this? Can't imagine it causing
> anything but trouble for fuel tanks and engines next to water.
>
> On 12/3/07, *John W. Cox* < johnwcox@pacificnw.com
> <mailto:johnwcox@pacificnw.com>> wrote:
>
> Let's take it the next step Kelly to mandate MOGAS has 10% + Ethanol
> in all 50 states. Now all of those Peterson and EAA STCed aircraft
> refueling in Orygun will pass Ethanol through the lines, seals and
> over the gaskets. Rotax requires not more than 50% Avgas to be added
> to Mogas or extensive additional repair work is required.
>
>
>
> Dave Martin (EAA 78011) representing the EAA will make the plea
> tomorrow before this panel of idiots. These are politicians I have
> not voted for, do not endorse and know little of the consequence of
> their action to revenue collection reductions, negative mpact to
> tourism and economic develop and aviation safety. We will soon be the
> Western Appalachia of the US of A. There is a distinct possibility
> that one of the politicians is the son of the acting Director of Aviation.
>
>
>
> The Greenies are everywhere. Be vigilant out there. It is soon to be
> an election year.
>
>
>
> John (EAA 565497)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> * *
> * *
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
> **
> **
> **
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
> **
> * *
Message 32
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS |
Deems,
Do you know if he had John add the turndown on the pipe end or was he running
the straight pipe?
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS
I spoke to Allen Barrett about the need for blast tubes. what I learned
was that Mags are not fond of heat. In a Pitts, it is nearly mandatory
to put in blast tubes as there is a lot of heat behind the baffles, and
the mags don't last without the tubes. I don't know how much heat the
-10 holds in the aft engine compartment, but living in the desert, I'm
sensitive to anything that's affected by the heat, and so I put one in
for each mag. I used the Van's corrugated plastic tube, and wrapped each
with a coil of #10 coper wire to bend/aim them at the mags. However,
based on what I learned in the paragraph below, I believe this is going
to be too much and I may fashion some restrictors that provide a smaller
diameter opening. I saw Allen Judy's highly modified RV6 @ OSH this year
and he's got blast tubes of a very small diameter Scat Tube ( 3/8"?)
On a related note, I recently spoke with a -10 builder in OK who just
completed his plane and is now flying. He reported the HTS (Hot Tunnel
Syndrome) phenomena. He has John Forsling exhaust and the Forsling
Ceramic coated heat muffs. One mounted on each side of the engine on the
exhaust stacks. John warned us that the heat muffs might not produce
enough heat as the exhaust is ceramic coated both inside and outside.
That turned out NOT to be the case. The air to the muffs is fed by a
single 2" opening at the rear baffle behind cyl #5. The solution to the
heat problem for this builder was to put a restrictor plate in front of
the 2" air inlet. He experimented with how big the hole in the
restrictor plate should be and FOUND THAT 1/4 " ONE QUARTER OF AN INCH
was all that was needed to supply all the air He needed for front and
aft cabin on a 40 degree OAT day!!!!! It solved his HTS problem and
still provided all of the heat he needs.
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
David McNeill wrote:
> I may have ask this question before but are any using the blast tubes
> in the baffling to cool the mags. never had these on a certified or
> experimental; never needed.
Message 33
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS |
Mike, this builder did NOT have the turn downs on the exhaust tips. i
asked him if he was certain as to the source of the heat, and he felt
certain it was the heat muffs.
Deems
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
>
> Deems,
>
> Do you know if he had John add the turndown on the pipe end or was he running
the straight pipe?
>
Message 34
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
I'd be curious as to how the Dept of Ag would respond to the FAA
advising them that they would be violating Federal law if they tamper
with on spec Avgas.
Avgas has to meet ASTM spec, which is impossible with ethanol in it. Is
the State willing to accept liability for the first aircraft that
crashes from ethanol contaminated avgas? Mogas is a different story, as
the FAA has already prohibited using mogas with ethanol in aircraft.
Yes, it hurts those that desire or feel they need mogas in their aircraft.
Has AOPA or anyone engaged the FAA in this matter? Would seem pretty
simple for the FAA to issue an edict or get a Fed Court injunction to
preclude the state from messing with Avgas.
John W. Cox wrote:
>
> Wow, you need to get HBO or Showtime on a Friday night.
>
> Page 7 lines 12 and 13 Definition of Gasoline.
>
> Page 7 lines 16 and 17 ALL spark ignited internal combustion motors
> operating in Orygun. This includes all aerocraft engines using spark
> ignition.
>
> Page 9 line 37 and 38 Gasoline must contain 10 percent ethanol by
> volume. Good bye EAA and Peterson STCs for MOGAS use in Orygun.
>
> The legislature adjourned and the Governor signed the bill on
> September 27^th , 2007. The effective date is January 28^th , 2008.
> The mandate hits on July 15^th , 2008. The next Department of
> Agriculture meeting is scheduled for Wednesday, December 12 at 9AM
> located at 635 Capitol Street, Salem, OR. I will forward more then for
> your next Friday Night at the Movies. By ordinance AVGAS as we know it
> is gasoline for Department of Agriculture interpretation. We are
> hoping to create an exemption whereby FBOs could invest in a non
> Ethanol tank system in addition to the mandatory ethanol laden Greenie
> concoction. The EAA is not represented in these discussions.
>
> Back to shoveling my compost pile to speed the process. And to think I
> used to be looking for a pony in all this stuff.
>
> John
>
> Do not Archive
>
Message 35
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Trouble with riveting on rear spar at flap bracket. |
If you are referring to the rivets holding on the bottom skin right next to
the flap attach arms (I think there are 4 on each side) I used a long
backrivet set with the collar removed. Do make sure the face is polished
very smooth or it will mar up the skin pretty good. Be sure to be perfectly
perpendicular too as the edges have no bevel or curve in them. Turn up the
air pressure cause the long set absorbs a lot of impact.
I actually made my own backrivet set out of a 12" long cupped set that I got
on ebay (see pictures attached). It came with a gaggle of sets and bars
that were for a rivet sizes I'd never heard of. I cut the end off flush and
polished the thing up real good. At home depot I found a pvc fitting that
fit it like a glove and cut it up to work like a standard backrivet set.
The spring that came with the avery c-frame seems to work pretty good
holding pressure on the pvc fitting.
-Ben Westfall
#40579 (N109LB just reserved - 10th of September is our wedding anniversary
- Lene & Ben)
PDX
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 5:10 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Trouble with riveting on rear spar at flap bracket.
I am having a difficult time rivetting in this area. On the rear spar where
the flap bracket is, rivetting the skin in this area is difficult because
there is not much room between the rivet and the flap extension arm. I seem
to not have an appropriate fitting for the rivet gun for this area. The
standard gun fittings are too wide and require the gun handle to be angled
back toward the flap bracket and the bracket will not allow this to happen.
When I tried to drive the rivit it didn't sit flush. Drilling it out was a
task in itself.
Any suggestions, what am I missing.
Thanks,
JOhn G.
Message 36
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Trouble with riveting on rear spar at flap bracket. |
If I didn't make it clear the backrivet set was used as a regular set on the
manufactured head of the AN470 rivet and my wife bucked the shop head per
usual.
-Ben
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 5:10 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Trouble with riveting on rear spar at flap bracket.
I am having a difficult time rivetting in this area. On the rear spar where
the flap bracket is, rivetting the skin in this area is difficult because
there is not much room between the rivet and the flap extension arm. I seem
to not have an appropriate fitting for the rivet gun for this area. The
standard gun fittings are too wide and require the gun handle to be angled
back toward the flap bracket and the bracket will not allow this to happen.
When I tried to drive the rivit it didn't sit flush. Drilling it out was a
task in itself.
Any suggestions, what am I missing.
Thanks,
JOhn G.
Message 37
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Trouble with riveting on rear spar at flap bracket. |
Uh, that should be AN426 right?
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Dec 8, 2007, at 1:18 AM, Ben Westfall wrote:
> If I didn=92t make it clear the backrivet set was used as a regular
> set on the manufactured head of the AN470 rivet and my wife bucked
> the shop head per usual.
>
> -Ben
>
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> ] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 5:10 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Trouble with riveting on rear spar at flap
> bracket.
>
> I am having a difficult time rivetting in this area. On the rear
> spar where the flap bracket is, rivetting the skin in this area is
> difficult because there is not much room between the rivet and the
> flap extension arm. I seem to not have an appropriate fitting for
> the rivet gun for this area. The standard gun fittings are too wide
> and require the gun handle to be angled back toward the flap bracket
> and the bracket will not allow this to happen. When I tried to drive
> the rivit it didn't sit flush. Drilling it out was a task in itself.
>
> Any suggestions, what am I missing.
>
> Thanks,
>
> JOhn G.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|