---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 12/12/07: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:07 AM - Question regarding wing root nut plate (Patrick ONeill) 2. 05:22 AM - Re: Safety-Trim Group Buy (Wayne Edgerton) 3. 05:32 AM - Re: Question regarding wing root nut plate (Dave Leikam) 4. 05:47 AM - Re: AOA Pro vs AOA Sport (Bill Schlatterer) 5. 06:08 AM - Re: Safety-Trim Group Buy (Tim Olson) 6. 06:13 AM - Re: AOA Pro vs AOA Sport (Bob Leffler) 7. 10:18 AM - Re: Safety-Trim Group Buy (John Jessen) 8. 12:16 PM - Re: Trying to keep the belly clean - Air/Oil Separator (tintopranch) 9. 01:47 PM - Re: Question regarding wing root nut plate (Patrick ONeill) 10. 06:44 PM - FWF wiring (Jay Rowe) 11. 07:11 PM - Re: FWF wiring (Bob-tcw) 12. 08:51 PM - Re: FWF wiring (Jay Rowe) 13. 09:20 PM - DSC_2313.JPG (Jesse Saint) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:07:26 AM PST US From: "Patrick ONeill" Subject: RV10-List: Question regarding wing root nut plate While trying to finish up some of the odd ball QB items remaining to be done, I ran into a question. I'm doing the top side nut plates which receive the screws when attaching the wing root fairing are attached. The forward nut plates all go through the wing walk doubler and are countersunk. The aft most nut plate #19 hole is dimpled. I do not see mention of the preparation of the rivet holes for this nut plate. Should this nut plate be riveted at the same time as the rest, or is it dealt with later in the plans? If now, are the rivet holes dimpled and the nut plate dimpled as well or is this prepared differently? My apologies if I've missed the step in the plans. I've gone through it a few times already and decided to ask the list for guidance before reading it again and reviewing the future steps. Best Regards, Patrick #40715/N690CT ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:22:18 AM PST US From: "Wayne Edgerton" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Safety-Trim Group Buy In response to Tim's post on a runaway trim issue. When I replaced the Ray Allen trims recently I had a runaway elevator trim on my first flight after install. I can attest that a runaway trim is not a fun deal, even if you're from TX :>} It ran away so fast there was no time to disconnect it. What happened was I was on climb out and the minute I hit the up trim the servo went to full stops up. I normally indicate about 2 or 3 on my elev trim indicator on climb out and it went to 22. I had to hold full force pushing the stick forward to keep the plane from trying to go straight up. It took a pretty strong push to hold the stick forward, in fact I told the person in the right seat to put his hand on the stick lightly just in case my arm got too tired. The next issue I was faced with was how the hell am I going to flair this thing on landing. As I slowed the plane for landing the control forces let up somewhat, because of the speed reduction, but I still had to keep forward force on the stick until the last minute and I released a little to land. Luckily that landing method worked. I'm not sure a small woman would have been able to hold the forward force necessary in this situation. Boy I can only imagine what a runaway aileron trim would take to control. We ended up replacing the elev trim servo and have had no more problems. Ray Allen said it wasn't their trim that caused the problem but maybe how we wired it. I'm not positive what caused it but if you were Ray Allen what would you say? I think we wired it the same the second time. Wayne Edgerton N602WT ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:05 AM PST US From: "Dave Leikam" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Question regarding wing root nut plate If you are talking about the upper aft nut plate, I riveted it at the time and dimpled all the holes. Dave Leikam 40496 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick ONeill" Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 6:06 AM Subject: RV10-List: Question regarding wing root nut plate > > While trying to finish up some of the odd ball QB items remaining to be > done, I ran into a question. > > I'm doing the top side nut plates which receive the screws when attaching > the wing root fairing are attached. The forward nut plates all go through > the wing walk doubler and are countersunk. The aft most nut plate #19 > hole > is dimpled. I do not see mention of the preparation of the rivet holes > for > this nut plate. Should this nut plate be riveted at the same time as the > rest, or is it dealt with later in the plans? If now, are the rivet holes > dimpled and the nut plate dimpled as well or is this prepared differently? > > My apologies if I've missed the step in the plans. I've gone through it a > few times already and decided to ask the list for guidance before reading > it > again and reviewing the future steps. > > Best Regards, > Patrick #40715/N690CT > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:14 AM PST US From: "Bill Schlatterer" Subject: RE: RV10-List: AOA Pro vs AOA Sport Where is the AFS forum? Bill S 7a Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 11:27 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOA Pro vs AOA Sport As far as I know the only difference is the display, but then I have the 3500 EFIS so I get the pro display and audio that comes with that system. Drop Rob Hickman an email ot go to the AFS forum to confirm.The wing kit is identical for all three versions. Rick S. 40185 ----- Original Message ----- From: "n277dl" Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 8:12:56 PM (GMT-0500) America/New_York Subject: RV10-List: AOA Pro vs AOA Sport Group: is the only difference in the pro vs sport the display? Doug -------- Doug RV7A flying ~500hrs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151766#151766 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:01 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Safety-Trim Group Buy I don't think that runaway aileron trim would be nearly the problem on the -10, as it's not controlling a trim tab...just biasing a spring. I think you could run your aileron trim out full and have it be a non-event. If you built a trim-tab type aileron trim though, then that could get pretty scary I'm sure. Also, with Van's spring-bias system, the aileron trim isn't very quick, so I wouldn't speed limit that axis because it just isn't necessary. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Wayne Edgerton wrote: > In response to Tim's post on a runaway trim issue. When I replaced the > Ray Allen trims recently I had a runaway elevator trim on my first > flight after install. I can attest that a runaway trim is not a fun > deal, even if you're from TX :>} It ran away so fast there was no time > to disconnect it. What happened was I was on climb out and the minute I > hit the up trim the servo went to full stops up. I normally indicate > about 2 or 3 on my elev trim indicator on climb out and it went to 22. > > I had to hold full force pushing the stick forward to keep the plane > from trying to go straight up. It took a pretty strong push to hold the > stick forward, in fact I told the person in the right seat to put his > hand on the stick lightly just in case my arm got too tired. The next > issue I was faced with was how the hell am I going to flair this thing > on landing. As I slowed the plane for landing the control forces let up > somewhat, because of the speed reduction, but I still had to keep > forward force on the stick until the last minute and I released a little > to land. Luckily that landing method worked. > > I'm not sure a small woman would have been able to hold the forward > force necessary in this situation. Boy I can only imagine what a runaway > aileron trim would take to control. > > We ended up replacing the elev trim servo and have had no more problems. > Ray Allen said it wasn't their trim that caused the problem but maybe > how we wired it. I'm not positive what caused it but if you were Ray > Allen what would you say? I think we wired it the same the second time. > > Wayne Edgerton N602WT > > > > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:13:28 AM PST US From: "Bob Leffler" Subject: RE: RV10-List: AOA Pro vs AOA Sport http://www.advanced-flight-systems.com/forum/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Schlatterer Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 8:47 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: AOA Pro vs AOA Sport Where is the AFS forum? Bill S 7a Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 11:27 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOA Pro vs AOA Sport As far as I know the only difference is the display, but then I have the 3500 EFIS so I get the pro display and audio that comes with that system. Drop Rob Hickman an email ot go to the AFS forum to confirm.The wing kit is identical for all three versions. Rick S. 40185 ----- Original Message ----- From: "n277dl" Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 8:12:56 PM (GMT-0500) America/New_York Subject: RV10-List: AOA Pro vs AOA Sport Group: is the only difference in the pro vs sport the display? Doug -------- Doug RV7A flying ~500hrs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151766#151766 __________ NOD32 2719 (20071212) Information __________ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:18:18 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Safety-Trim Group Buy From: John Jessen What trim servo did you end up with. Was it a replaced Ray Allen? John J 40328 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Edgerton Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 5:21 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Safety-Trim Group Buy In response to Tim's post on a runaway trim issue. When I replaced the Ray Allen trims recently I had a runaway elevator trim on my first flight after install. I can attest that a runaway trim is not a fun deal, even if you're from TX :>} It ran away so fast there was no time to disconnect it. What happened was I was on climb out and the minute I hit the up trim the servo went to full stops up. I normally indicate about 2 or 3 on my elev trim indicator on climb out and it went to 22. I had to hold full force pushing the stick forward to keep the plane from trying to go straight up. It took a pretty strong push to hold the stick forward, in fact I told the person in the right seat to put his hand on the stick lightly just in case my arm got too tired. The next issue I was faced with was how the hell am I going to flair this thing on landing. As I slowed the plane for landing the control forces let up somewhat, because of the speed reduction, but I still had to keep forward force on the stick until the last minute and I released a little to land. Luckily that landing method worked. I'm not sure a small woman would have been able to hold the forward force necessary in this situation. Boy I can only imagine what a runaway aileron trim would take to control. We ended up replacing the elev trim servo and have had no more problems. Ray Allen said it wasn't their trim that caused the problem but maybe how we wired it. I'm not positive what caused it but if you were Ray Allen what would you say? I think we wired it the same the second time. Wayne Edgerton N602WT ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:16:52 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Trying to keep the belly clean - Air/Oil Separator From: "tintopranch" I have a new Mattituck 540 and had the same issue. I installed Van's air/oil seperator and have been very happy with the results. I have about 45hrs on the seperator and 95 on the engine so far. I had a wolf seperator on my bonanza for years with good results. I have noticed that the oil does seem to be more dirty with the seperator than without. But since I can run more oil in the engine and I change the oil every 50hrs I do not see a problem with it. -------- MARK SUTHERLAND RV-10 40292 Flying since June 07 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151870#151870 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:47:38 PM PST US From: "Patrick ONeill" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Question regarding wing root nut plate Yup. That's the one. Thanks Dave! Best Regards, Patrick #40715/N690CT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 5:32 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Question regarding wing root nut plate If you are talking about the upper aft nut plate, I riveted it at the time and dimpled all the holes. Dave Leikam 40496 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick ONeill" Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 6:06 AM Subject: RV10-List: Question regarding wing root nut plate > > While trying to finish up some of the odd ball QB items remaining to be > done, I ran into a question. > > I'm doing the top side nut plates which receive the screws when attaching > the wing root fairing are attached. The forward nut plates all go through > the wing walk doubler and are countersunk. The aft most nut plate #19 > hole > is dimpled. I do not see mention of the preparation of the rivet holes > for > this nut plate. Should this nut plate be riveted at the same time as the > rest, or is it dealt with later in the plans? If now, are the rivet holes > dimpled and the nut plate dimpled as well or is this prepared differently? > > My apologies if I've missed the step in the plans. I've gone through it a > few times already and decided to ask the list for guidance before reading > it > again and reviewing the future steps. > > Best Regards, > Patrick #40715/N690CT > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:31 PM PST US From: "Jay Rowe" Subject: RV10-List: FWF wiring Need advice on wire runs in the engine area. Is it okay to run the CHT/EGT wires in the same bundle as the lower plug wires as they run aft? How does one attach that bundle/bundles----with Adel clamps to a rocker cover screw, or something else? Can all the CHT/EGT lines run thru the firewall at the same location? Any and all advice/pictures welcomed. Jay Rowe (about to finish FWF) 40301 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:54 PM PST US From: "Bob-tcw" Subject: Re: RV10-List: FWF wiring Jay, I'm not as far on my -10, However, In our Glastar all CHT and EGT cables are bundled together with the lower spark plug wires and run aft together to the magnetos, then the cht/egt bundle runs with some other wires together thru the firewall. 8 years running with no issues. -Bob Newman TCW Technologies www.tcwtech.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jay Rowe To: RV10-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:43 PM Subject: RV10-List: FWF wiring Need advice on wire runs in the engine area. Is it okay to run the CHT/EGT wires in the same bundle as the lower plug wires as they run aft? How does one attach that bundle/bundles----with Adel clamps to a rocker cover screw, or something else? Can all the CHT/EGT lines run thru the firewall at the same location? Any and all advice/pictures welcomed. Jay Rowe (about to finish FWF) 40301 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:38 PM PST US From: "Jay Rowe" Subject: Re: RV10-List: FWF wiring Thanks Bob, I'll follow your lead. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob-tcw To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 10:11 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: FWF wiring Jay, I'm not as far on my -10, However, In our Glastar all CHT and EGT cables are bundled together with the lower spark plug wires and run aft together to the magnetos, then the cht/egt bundle runs with some other wires together thru the firewall. 8 years running with no issues. -Bob Newman TCW Technologies www.tcwtech.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jay Rowe To: RV10-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:43 PM Subject: RV10-List: FWF wiring Need advice on wire runs in the engine area. Is it okay to run the CHT/EGT wires in the same bundle as the lower plug wires as they run aft? How does one attach that bundle/bundles----with Adel clamps to a rocker cover screw, or something else? Can all the CHT/EGT lines run thru the firewall at the same location? Any and all advice/pictures welcomed. Jay Rowe (about to finish FWF) 40301 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- 12/12/2007 11:29 AM ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:20:03 PM PST US From: Jesse Saint Subject: RV10-List: DSC_2313.JPG Well, N256H is finally out of the paint shop and should be back in the air tomorrow or Friday. For those who've seen it in the past, you know how big of an improvement this is. Oh, we should have some preliminary numbers on the wing root fairings by the weekend. As you can see, they're not installed here yet. do not archive Jesse Saint DSC_2313.JPG ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.