Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:08 AM - Re: heavy wing with fairings (Wayne Edgerton)
2. 06:45 AM - Re: AOA in your RV-10? (bcondrey)
3. 06:48 AM - Re: AOA in your RV-10? (bcondrey)
4. 09:20 AM - Re: AOA in your RV-10? (johngoodman)
5. 11:12 AM - Re: Composite School - helpful advice please (Doors/Cabin top) (Dave Saylor)
6. 11:17 AM - Re: NACA Vents (John Ackerman)
7. 11:26 AM - Re: Illuminated Switches (Ted French)
8. 11:28 AM - Re: Illuminated Switches (Ted French)
9. 04:48 PM - Re: AOA in your RV-10? (cjay)
10. 05:46 PM - Re: AOA in your RV-10? (johngoodman)
11. 09:48 PM - oil canning. (John Gonzalez)
12. 11:06 PM - Re: oil canning. (McGANN, Ron)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: heavy wing with fairings |
I had the same situation on mine and in my case I determined that it was
just in need of right rudder trim. I installed a 7" long static rudder
trim piece and the problem went away. So once figured out it was a
simple fix.
Wayne Edgerton
N602WT
Someone locally is flying his RV-10 and noticed the following I
thought
I would challenge the fliers with:
What I noticed is at faster speeds the heavy right wing is more
noticeable. Need to figure out what is causing the heavy wing as
it
relates to the fairings. Any suggestions? Slower speeds not
noticeable.
Pascal
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: AOA in your RV-10? |
I've got an AOA Pro in my (not quite flying yet) panel. Alex DeDominicis also
has an AOA Pro in his RV-10 that he uses for transition training. I just flew
with him last week and it was great!
The wing kit consists of a pair of UMHW "pressure taps" and the associated tubing.
There isn't really anything special about the taps - they just give you a
way to connect the tubing to the small hole in the upper & lower holes that you
drill in the wing. Upper port also has a fitting for draining any water that
might collect. The tubing is colored 1/8" Tygon. Kit also includes install
instructions, labels for the ports and some other misc. stuff - not sure if
it also includes the switch for flap position or not. There's probably some cost
saving potential but in the end you'd spend a fair amount of time trying to
replicate what AFS sells and wouldn't end up with the same quality.
I personally would consider fabricating my own wing kit any more than I'd fab my
own heated pitot tube.
Bob #40105
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152317#152317
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| Subject: | Re: AOA in your RV-10? |
Typo - I would NOT fab the AOA wing kit any more than I'd considering fab of a
heated pitot tube instead of buying one.
Bob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152318#152318
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| Subject: | Re: AOA in your RV-10? |
Eric,
I have installed two AOAs in my RV-10 still under construction. I looked at all
the options out there and decided on the Dynon heated pitot with AoA. Listed
at $450 but it'll be $600 by the time you buy the Gretz mount and other stuff
(it's still an excellent pitot tube). Obviously that means there will be a Dynon
somewhere on the panel.
The other AOA I purchased is called a Lift Reserve Indicator made by InAir Instruments.
It is purely mechanical and used a round dial gauge that I plan on mounting
on my glareshield. I think I paid $400 for it at Oshkosh.
You probably wonder why two - simple, I was a Navy jet jock many years ago and
learned to trust it above everything else. The Dynon, InAir, and the AFS use the
same principle of differential air pressure. The Dynon and InAir are under
the wing and protected from rain while parked. The AFS uses a hole on top of the
wing which requires a drain port to check during preflight.
I've seen a few airplanes out there with a Vane on the wingtip that would do the
job as well, but I was worried about its susceptibility to damage by people
passing by who couldn't resist turn it.
You can build your own, as well. Here is a site where someone did: http://www.ch601.org/resources/aoa/aoa.htm The principle is real simple: two air ports at different angles to the airstream. If more air is coming through the upper one, you're going fast. You could actually just hook them up to red and green balloons in the cockpit. When the red one gets bigger than the green, you should drop the nose. Calibrating something like that would be funny to watch but you get the drift.
One additional point; the Dynon heated tube gives me IFR capability and the Dynon
EFIS will give me the required aural stall warning. I didn't install the Vans
Stall Warning device because of that.
Hope this helps
John
--------
#40572 QB Wings, QB Fuse arrived
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152344#152344
Message 5
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| Subject: | Composite School - helpful advice please (Doors/Cabin top) |
If you can trim the edge of the door any more so it fits a little below
grade, that might reduce the 1/8" high to more like 1/16". In other words,
split the difference so the thickest filler is only 1/16, some where the
door is low and some where the top is low. That should be pretty managable.
We ended up putting about that much flox putty around the opening to bring
the level up a bit. We used flox because I was concerned that filler
wouldn't hold up in such a high traffic area.
The best filler for other areas that we've used is Superfil. ACS P/N
09-28250. It's epoxy and it takes a long time to cure (12 hours!) but it
works and lasts great.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
N921AC 50 hrs, currently at the paint shop
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 10:50 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Composite School - helpful advice please (Doors/Cabin
top)
I am presently fitting my doors. I have the latch pins and gas struts
installed and cannot get the doors to fit perfectly.
The doors fit nice and tight at the top (with some shims) and at the bottom
with the latching pins. (Rivithead set is very slick) But the middle of the
door is unsatisfactory
Essentially the door bows outward in the middle more than the cabin top by
about 1/16-1/8 inch. It seems evident that the solution is to build up the
cabin top at the front windshield flange and at the area between the door
and the rear window.
The best advice that I have received so far is from Gus at Van's who
suggested that I saturate foam with epoxy and shape it to the area and then
cover it with a thin coat of fabric saturated with epoxy.
I was also warned not to use ANY polyester/bondo products on the cabin top.
Any advice here will be appreciated
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152296#152296
Message 6
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On Dec 14, 2007, at 7:10 AM, Fred Williams, M.D. wrote:
> <drfred@suddenlinkmail.com>
> I spent roughly $1500. Came with all the lights and vents. Here's a
> web site.
> accuracy avionics <info@accuracyavionics.com>
We bought the whole kit, too. It would have been much cheaper without
the lights, eyeball vents, and switches, but probably no net savings
once you bought all that stuff. OTOH, you could pick the lights and
switches you wanted.
We think we like the lights, but "we shall see" when it comes time to
fly at night.
The vents are particularly nice. Nonetheless we would consider the
bare plenum "next time". Tony at Accuracy may be rethinking the
switches, I think.
Because we're mounting an antenna in the "DVD" area, we've cut in a
couple more access hatches. We also "customized" the area in the
front center to accept grommets for antennae. Turns out we're using
those grommets for other wires because we didn't want to cut into the
structural shell above the pilots' heads for GPS antennae.
Also, in order to fit our particular airplane, the plenum needed to
be completely cut away and re-fitted in the area of the "joggle"
between the thicker and thinner parts of the shell, and at the aft
end we needed to cut off the flange.
We made a "plate" to extend the bulkhead and serve as a doubler for
the SCAT tube fittings at the back of the baggage compartment. This
allowed the corrugated panel to be cut away to fit around the plenum,
and still be removable and replaceable. Photos available offline by
email.
Installing NACA vents with the tail cone, but not the cabin top, in
position was pretty easy. Nobody seems to know an ideal position, so
we just copied what others have used with apparent success. We
mounted them right behind the baggage area, and roughly midway
between the longeron and stiffener.
Marlys and John
40458
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Illuminated Switches |
Yup
The 10;s for sale. Too much plane for solo flying....
Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: December 14, 2007 2:40 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Illuminated Switches
Hi Ted
Those are very nice switches. Much nicer than the usual throw switches.
Thanks for the link.
Cheers
Les
PS: Did I see your plane in a recent copy of COPA?. Where are you based?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted French
Sent: December-14-07 2:34 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Illuminated Switches
Les
See: http://www.action-electronics.com/pdf/gcsw16.pdf
Look at the one at the bottom of this page. The light is independant of
the switch. I wired mine so the panel lights bring it on fairly dim, but
when switched on, they go full bright. Also available from Stein with white
light instead of green.
See my panel at: http://www3.telus.net/elfrench/Panel_Feb_26_2007.jpg
Do Not Archive
Ted French C-FXCS
RV-10 Flying
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: December 14, 2007 8:34 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Illuminated Switches
Hi
As I plan my panel, I thought it would be nice to use illuminated
switches in some applications. I came across some MilSpec switches but I
suspect they would be very expensive.
Does anyone have a good source for switches that would be appropriate
for panel use (other than the typical toggle switches).
Cheers
Les Kearney
#40643
C-GCWZ (Resereved)
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chre
f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Na
vigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.
com
http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10
-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Illuminated Switches |
Yup
The 10;s for sale.. Too much plane for solo flying. I'm in Kelowna BC
Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: December 14, 2007 2:40 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Illuminated Switches
Hi Ted
Those are very nice switches. Much nicer than the usual throw switches.
Thanks for the link.
Cheers
Les
PS: Did I see your plane in a recent copy of COPA?. Where are you based?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted French
Sent: December-14-07 2:34 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Illuminated Switches
Les
See: http://www.action-electronics.com/pdf/gcsw16.pdf
Look at the one at the bottom of this page. The light is independant of
the switch. I wired mine so the panel lights bring it on fairly dim, but
when switched on, they go full bright. Also available from Stein with white
light instead of green.
See my panel at: http://www3.telus.net/elfrench/Panel_Feb_26_2007.jpg
Do Not Archive
Ted French C-FXCS
RV-10 Flying
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: December 14, 2007 8:34 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Illuminated Switches
Hi
As I plan my panel, I thought it would be nice to use illuminated
switches in some applications. I came across some MilSpec switches but I
suspect they would be very expensive.
Does anyone have a good source for switches that would be appropriate
for panel use (other than the typical toggle switches).
Cheers
Les Kearney
#40643
C-GCWZ (Resereved)
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chre
f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Na
vigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.
com
http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10
-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: AOA in your RV-10? |
Hey John,
The InAir (and Dynon) is a great deal cheaper than the AFS. Does the AFS AOA have
any benefits over InAir?
regards,
cjay
johngoodman wrote:
> Eric,
> I have installed two AOAs in my RV-10 still under construction. I looked at all
the options out there and decided on the Dynon heated pitot with AoA. Listed
at $450 but it'll be $600 by the time you buy the Gretz mount and other stuff
(it's still an excellent pitot tube). Obviously that means there will be a Dynon
somewhere on the panel.
> The other AOA I purchased is called a Lift Reserve Indicator made by InAir Instruments.
It is purely mechanical and used a round dial gauge that I plan on
mounting on my glareshield. I think I paid $400 for it at Oshkosh.
>
> You probably wonder why two - simple, I was a Navy jet jock many years ago and
learned to trust it above everything else. The Dynon, InAir, and the AFS use
the same principle of differential air pressure. The Dynon and InAir are under
the wing and protected from rain while parked. The AFS uses a hole on top of
the wing which requires a drain port to check during preflight.
> I've seen a few airplanes out there with a Vane on the wingtip that would do
the job as well, but I was worried about its susceptibility to damage by people
passing by who couldn't resist turn it.
>
> You can build your own, as well. Here is a site where someone did: http://www.ch601.org/resources/aoa/aoa.htm The principle is real simple: two air ports at different angles to the airstream. If more air is coming through the upper one, you're going fast. You could actually just hook them up to red and green balloons in the cockpit. When the red one gets bigger than the green, you should drop the nose. Calibrating something like that would be funny to watch but you get the drift.
>
> One additional point; the Dynon heated tube gives me IFR capability and the Dynon
EFIS will give me the required aural stall warning. I didn't install the
Vans Stall Warning device because of that.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152444#152444
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: AOA in your RV-10? |
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the AFS system from my point of view. I
just prefer to have the probes under the wing. The hole on top is a water collection
problem, that's all (easy to put a cover on pitot tubes and LRI probes).
Cost is also a factor. However, I will say that I find most of the cockpit displays
too colorful and complex for my tastes. Too much interpretation of what
the little colored chevrons mean. That's why I like an analog dial - just like
the Navy. The red/amber/green colors originate from the chevron light indicator
that was in the carrier jets (only used for landings). The pilot only saw
(from top to bottom) an inverted red chevron, an amber circle, or a green chevron
(slow changes would show two lights). What the Navy pilot was seeing was
the same thing as the lights on the nose wheel that the LSO (Landing Signal Officer)
saw. In a simple example, he could tell if you were pulling up the nose
without power because the lights would start blinking from amber to amber/red,
or red.
Since you asked, I read through the calibration process of the AFS product and
found it a little complex. Calibration is still required for any of them, but
I liked the InAir the best. Since I didn't want to cut into my QB wings to put
in Van's stall warning, the Dynon system seemed to fill all the squares - a heated
pitot, and an aural stall warning that was based on a system I knew and
trusted. I still wanted a genuine analog dial, so I also chose InAir and put it
on the other wing. The advantage of an analog dial is that I will be able to
calibrate Maneuvering, L over D max, Best Glide, Best Range, etc., and put marks
on the dial face. To give an example, the guy who always won in ACM (air combat
maneuvering - dogfighting) always kept the high g turn right on L over D
Max. Since the gauge was on the upper left of the panel, a savvy Air Force guy
could force you into right turns and take the advantage away, I'm sad to say....
John
cjay wrote:
> Hey John,
>
> The InAir (and Dynon) is a great deal cheaper than the AFS. Does the AFS AOA
have any benefits over InAir?
>
> regards,
>
> cjay
>
--------
#40572 QB Wings, QB Fuse arrived
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152452#152452
Message 11
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I remember reading a post a few weeks ago about this but I don't recal the
location of the problem
I closed up the bottom of one wing today and I am quite surprised to find s
o much oil canning on the skins just aft of the main spar. I used clecos in
every hole and I followed the directions, starting from the location indic
ated and moving forward and inward and outward at the same time. Aside from
a few blemishes, I thought I had done a fairly good job, but compared to w
hat the rest of the quickbuild wing looks like, I would say I am missing so
me thing.
I will say that after I got the J channel rivetted and the aft portions of
the ribs completed, I rivetted the skin at the main spar, as I was worried
that if I kept working forward I would prevent the skin from laying flat on
the spar and it might get hung up on the edge of the forward(L.E.) skin.
Any body want to admit to having a similar finding.
Thanks
JOhn G. 409
Message 12
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Hey John,
Previous post was probably from me. I had oil canning in the VS and rudder
. Tore down and rebuilt the VS - it is now much better. Oil canning in th
e rudder was due to not enough bend applied to the leading edge which place
s too much stress on the skins behind the spar. Removed the LP4-3s and ref
ormed by hand and re-rivetted. Only a small oil can in one panel now. Thi
s is a lesson for those about to build their rudder - once initially formed
, the bend is quite easy to finish by hand forming. Do not try and pull th
e skins together with clecoes and then rivet. Oil canning will result.
I rivetted my bottom wing skins solo. One panel oil cans aft of the main s
par (midway between the outboard inspection holes). The rest are tight as a
drum. I noticed the skins tighten a fair bit as I neared the end of the r
ivetting sequence per plans.
cheers
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of John Gonzalez
Sent: Sun 16/12/2007 16:06
Subject: RV10-List: oil canning.
I remember reading a post a few weeks ago about this but I don't recal the
location of the problem
I closed up the bottom of one wing today and I am quite surprised to find s
o much oil canning on the skins just aft of the main spar. I used clecos in
every hole and I followed the directions, starting from the location indic
ated and moving forward and inward and outward at the same time. Aside from
a few blemishes, I thought I had done a fairly good job, but compared to w
hat the rest of the quickbuild wing looks like, I would say I am missing so
me thing.
I will say that after I got the J channel rivetted and the aft portions of
the ribs completed, I rivetted the skin at the main spar, as I was worried
that if I kept working forward I would prevent the skin from laying flat on
the spar and it might get hung up on the edge of the forward(L.E.) skin.
Any body want to admit to having a similar finding.
Thanks
JOhn G. 409
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