Today's Message Index:
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1. 11:19 AM - Gretz mount (Chris Hukill)
2. 06:17 PM - Re: oil canning revisited (John Gonzalez)
3. 06:49 PM - Re: oil canning revisited (Pascal)
Message 1
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I recently installed my Gretz mount and thought I would share an issue
with the list. The reinforcement plate that is supplied with the mount ,
the one with the joggle that goes on top of the spar flange, has a
joggle of .045 which is correct for the smaller RVs, but not the 10. The
flange on the 10 is .065. I contacted Gretz and he said he was aware of
the issue, and possibly the next batch run will be made with the larger
joggle (which would be easy to shim for the other RVs). Meanwhile he
suggested that I could put the plate in a vise and beat on it to fit. I
tried that and ended up with something that I didn't think belonged on
my airplane. So the fix was to make a new plate out of .065 material,
and flush rivet a strip of material to the leading edge, that would go
on top of the flange, and allow the plate to sit perfectly flat against
the skin.
I installed the mount on the inboard side of the outboard rib of the
second bay from the tip of the wing. This allows for access with the tip
removed, and is far enough from the tip that there is clean air, and
it's clear of the tie down ring. Contact me offline if you need
pictures.
I installed the new Dynon heated pitot / AOA probe, which is fabricated
from nickel and it looks like a real quality unit. I plan on at least
one Dynon box, which will give me visual and aural AOA / stall warning.
The probe also is temperature controlled for low current draw, and has
fault annunciation on a Dynon box, or a stand alone LED if not using a
Dynon box. My experience with the Dynon system I have in the RV8
couldn't be better. The system is rock solid, and loaded with features.
Chris Hukill
shaving bottom wing skins to fit
Message 2
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| Subject: | oil canning revisited |
Ben and Jim,
I would really like to get an idea of what is acceptable as far as the oil
canning is concerned in these bottom skin bays. I have 2 1/2 that have cann
ing.
Ben, I removed the material at the edge as you suggested a few days ago, bu
t i may have removed as much as 1/32 or almost 1/16 on the rework of the fi
rst wing. The result was still the oil canning in the bay aft of the spar,
just outside of the outer most access panel and then again oil canning on t
he second bay inboard of the outer most access panel. Interestingly, I beli
eve I removed as much material as I could have at that seam and the seam cl
osed up so tight a hair would not even be able to get in it. The dimpled ho
les started to not line up. Maybe every hole should not be clecoed and the
riveting should be every other hole when working forward????? Perhaps if ev
ery hole is clecoed and every hole rivetted in in series it wraps the skin
on too tight of a smaller arc and then it means the gap at the LE will be t
oo tight or non existent?????
Ben, do you remember whether your ribs were spring loaded causing them to b
ow in a direction opposite their flange direction. I still think this is my
problem as on the second wing I am trying every combination with the cleco
es. The aft portion of the ribs have been rivetted (completing step 11)and
the bays are tight as a drum. Despite what order I do the forward portion o
f the ribs with the clecoes, the skin in the same bays as on the other wing
still remain looser than the other bays. The only thing i can attribute th
is to is the ribs bowing inward on these two bays. The ribs are bowing towa
rd one another and the neighbor next to it is attributing to the mess by bo
wing in the same direction instead of the opposite.
There could be something unique to the way my wing is before doing the bott
om skin, but the building manual sure makes the whole process seem like a n
o brainer, but that is anything but what I am finding.
Sorry for carrying on with this issue but it is the most frustrating part o
f the build which I have found. I conquered my baggage door and it lines up
flush with the fuse skin and that took a lot of carrying on to get it righ
t.
Needless to say, replacing the skin may not correct the problem and now all
the rib flange holes have been enlarged from the expanding rivets, I know
so because when I re-did the first wing forward of the J channel, the cleco
es did't hold too well.
Good Grief Charlie Brown.
All I want from Santa is two nice smooth bottom wings skins with no oil can
ning in any of the bays.
I promise I have been a good boy!!!!
John G.
From: rv10@sinkrate.comTo: rv10-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: RV10-List: o
il canning revisitedDate: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 16:59:21 -0800
John,
I re-read many of the posts in the thread as well as your first one. Your
first post you said this:
=93I will say that after I got the J channel rivetted and the aft portions
of the ribs completed, I rivetted the skin at the main spar, as I was worri
ed that if I kept working forward I would prevent the skin from laying flat
on the spar and it might get hung up on the edge of the forward(L.E.) skin
.=94
I think this was your issue. You really want to work your way up one rivet
at a time. After completion of the aft half of the ribs you should be abl
e to cleco everything in its final place. There should be a small gap (1/3
2=94 at the most) between the leading edge or gas tank skins and the CLECO
=92d bottom skin. This gap just about completely closes up when you rivet
your way up a rib (If you work upward one hole at a time). I would not bou
nce from one rib to the next just complete one rib at a time. This helps p
ush any excess out towards the ends. If the skin edges are pressed togethe
r tightly you did not remove enough material and risk oil canning.
Mine went together w/o any oil canning. I spent about 5 to 10 minutes on e
ach bottom skin with a file removing the slightest bit of material from the
skin edge (mostly just the machining marks from stamping out the skins).
It really didn=92t take that long. Attached is a picture of the gap after
riveting between the bottom skin and the gas tank. The space is less than
a 64th I would say pretty much all the way down the entire wing.
Is it correctable now??? I don=92t know what to tell you.
-Ben
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of PILOTDDS@aol.comSent: Saturday, December 22, 200
7 3:18 PMTo: rv10-list@matronics.comSubject: RV10-List: oil canning revisit
ed
Was anybody succesful at improving or eliminating the bottom wing skin oil
canning by simply shaving the edge of the skin and reriveting or do I need
to replace the whole skin.I have two panels with unacceptably loose skin.I
reread the thread and was unclear about others succeses.Thanks ---Jim 728DD
175hours
711 KT reserved
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: oil canning revisited |
two questions?
-Do you have QB wings or SB wings
On my SB the ribs bow as well and as far as the clecoing everything on
(as I have not riveted yet) everything looks tight
If QB- call Van's and ask what's up..
-Are you using the "Oops rivets" second time around?
If not order some since it sounds like you are in need of them.
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: John Gonzalez
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 6:16 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: oil canning revisited
Ben and Jim,
I would really like to get an idea of what is acceptable as far as the
oil canning is concerned in these bottom skin bays. I have 2 1/2 that
have canning.
Ben, I removed the material at the edge as you suggested a few days
ago, but i may have removed as much as 1/32 or almost 1/16 on the rework
of the first wing. The result was still the oil canning in the bay aft
of the spar, just outside of the outer most access panel and then again
oil canning on the second bay inboard of the outer most access panel.
Interestingly, I believe I removed as much material as I could have at
that seam and the seam closed up so tight a hair would not even be able
to get in it. The dimpled holes started to not line up. Maybe every hole
should not be clecoed and the riveting should be every other hole when
working forward????? Perhaps if every hole is clecoed and every hole
rivetted in in series it wraps the skin on too tight of a smaller arc
and then it means the gap at the LE will be too tight or non
existent?????
Ben, do you remember whether your ribs were spring loaded causing them
to bow in a direction opposite their flange direction. I still think
this is my problem as on the second wing I am trying every combination
with the clecoes. The aft portion of the ribs have been rivetted
(completing step 11)and the bays are tight as a drum. Despite what order
I do the forward portion of the ribs with the clecoes, the skin in the
same bays as on the other wing still remain looser than the other bays.
The only thing i can attribute this to is the ribs bowing inward on
these two bays. The ribs are bowing toward one another and the neighbor
next to it is attributing to the mess by bowing in the same direction
instead of the opposite.
There could be something unique to the way my wing is before doing the
bottom skin, but the building manual sure makes the whole process seem
like a no brainer, but that is anything but what I am finding.
Sorry for carrying on with this issue but it is the most frustrating
part of the build which I have found. I conquered my baggage door and it
lines up flush with the fuse skin and that took a lot of carrying on to
get it right.
Needless to say, replacing the skin may not correct the problem and
now all the rib flange holes have been enlarged from the expanding
rivets, I know so because when I re-did the first wing forward of the J
channel, the clecoes did't hold too well.
Good Grief Charlie Brown.
All I want from Santa is two nice smooth bottom wings skins with no
oil canning in any of the bays.
I promise I have been a good boy!!!!
John G.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: rv10@sinkrate.com
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: oil canning revisited
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 16:59:21 -0800
John,
I re-read many of the posts in the thread as well as your first one.
Your first post you said this:
=93I will say that after I got the J channel rivetted and the aft
portions of the ribs completed, I rivetted the skin at the main spar, as
I was worried that if I kept working forward I would prevent the skin
from laying flat on the spar and it might get hung up on the edge of the
forward(L.E.) skin.=94
I think this was your issue. You really want to work your way up
one rivet at a time. After completion of the aft half of the ribs you
should be able to cleco everything in its final place. There should be
a small gap (1/32=94 at the most) between the leading edge or gas tank
skins and the CLECO=92d bottom skin. This gap just about completely
closes up when you rivet your way up a rib (If you work upward one hole
at a time). I would not bounce from one rib to the next just complete
one rib at a time. This helps push any excess out towards the ends. If
the skin edges are pressed together tightly you did not remove enough
material and risk oil canning.
Mine went together w/o any oil canning. I spent about 5 to 10
minutes on each bottom skin with a file removing the slightest bit of
material from the skin edge (mostly just the machining marks from
stamping out the skins). It really didn=92t take that long. Attached
is a picture of the gap after riveting between the bottom skin and the
gas tank. The space is less than a 64th I would say pretty much all the
way down the entire wing.
Is it correctable now??? I don=92t know what to tell you.
-Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
PILOTDDS@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 3:18 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: oil canning revisited
Was anybody succesful at improving or eliminating the bottom wing
skin oil canning by simply shaving the edge of the skin and reriveting
or do I need to replace the whole skin.I have two panels with
unacceptably loose skin.I reread the thread and was unclear about others
succeses.Thanks ---Jim 728DD 175hours
711 KT reserved
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