Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:00 AM - Re: Windows Installation (Rob Kermanj)
2. 05:49 AM - Re: Windows Installation (Lew Gallagher)
3. 06:42 AM - Re: Windows Installation (tgesele@optonline.net)
4. 08:22 AM - Re: Windows Installation (John Ackerman)
5. 09:41 AM - Re: Windows Installation (John Gonzalez)
6. 10:01 AM - RV-10 finishing kit-recommended deletions??? (tomhanaway)
7. 10:49 AM - Re: RV-10 finishing kit-recommended deletions??? (pilotdds@aol.com)
8. 11:15 AM - Re: Windows Installation (Gerry Filby)
9. 11:25 AM - Re: Windows Installation (John W. Cox)
10. 11:35 AM - Re: Windows Installation (Chuck Weyant)
11. 11:38 AM - Re: Windows Installation (jim berry)
12. 12:22 PM - Re: Re: Windows Installation (John W. Cox)
13. 12:43 PM - Re: Windows Installation (John W. Cox)
14. 02:03 PM - Re: Windows Installation (Vernon Smith)
15. 02:31 PM - Re: Windows Installation (John W. Cox)
16. 03:28 PM - 14" spinner (Thane States)
17. 04:02 PM - Re: 14" spinner (PJ Seipel)
18. 04:10 PM - Re: 14" spinner (lessdragprod@aol.com)
19. 04:19 PM - Re: 14" spinner (Chris Johnston)
20. 04:22 PM - Re: 14" spinner (John Cram)
21. 06:07 PM - Re: Re: Windows Installation (KiloPapa)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Windows Installation |
Chuck,
I completed my windows per Van's instruction and at first they came
out really nice. After 275 hrs, some of them are showing the joint
between the window and the fiberglass. It is showing as a crack in
the paint, something I have seen on other RV10s.
If I were to do it again, I would use the Weld-On but add a very thin
fiberglass tape to cover the joint. This (I think) will add a lot of
strength to the joint and provide some level of tolerance for
imperfect window adhesion. I would still not relax and do my best to
install the windows as if the tape did not exist.
Rob
On Jan 14, 2008, at 6:45 PM, Chuck Weyant wrote:
> I have just spent two hours researching info on window installation
> and cleanup for the "Ten". I've learned that acetone is not the
> best thing to use (crazing, cracking), mineral spirits leave a
> "oily" residue, and alcohol hardly touches Weld On. Okay then, what
> to use for cleanup?
>
> I glued in one window yesterday. Not entirely happy with the
> results. Far from 100 per cent flange adhesion, even with modest
> weights added per Van's instructions to the window (areas of window
> and fiberglass flange not mated, some might call them bubbles?)
> Perhaps this is acceptable?
>
> Is everyone using strips of fiberglass over the exterior window/
> fiberglass joint ? If so, why? To hold the window in place, to
> make a smoother transition from plexi to fiberglass, both?
>
> I'm using the stuff Van's recommended for adhesive, Weld-On, and not
> much inclined to change to something else unless Van's says so, but
> this stuff is hard to handle and harder to clean up.
>
> I'm not a total rooky at this building stuff, finished one RV9A that
> turned out really nice, but I'm at my wits end with these windows.
> Any advice would be appreciated.
> Chuck
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Windows Installation |
Hey Chris,
I like your sheetrock analogy best. We are also soon approaching this stage and
will go with the cloth strip -- perhaps carbon fiber. To further the mud joint
analogy, I'll probably use a 90 degree die grinder with a 2" quicklock sanding
disk and make a shallow depression in the plexi/fiberglass joint (just as
edges of sheetrock are tapered) and then fill that back in flush with the tape
and glass.
And then (just to mess with the purists) I may feather that with ... Bondo!
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
waiting on RV-10 finishing kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158263#158263
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| Subject: | Re: Windows Installation |
Chuck,
To provide another perspective, I used the weld-on on my -10 windows with
mixed results. The first three windows came out fine (rear window + 1 door). The
4th developed some minor crazing of the plexi around two of the corners where
bonded. The windscreen was a complete disaster, the majority of the bonded
edge developed cracks up to 1/2 - 2/3 of the was thru the plexi. I did not use
any acetone, laquer thinner, MEK, or any other solvents on the plexi and relatively
light clamping pressure. The only common theme is that it was getting progressively
colder as I did the windows so that may have something to do with
it.
One thing I did note when removing the windscreen was that the weld-on was well
bonded to the plexi but pealed off the fiberglass relatively easily with a
little heat. So, for what it's worth, I won't be using the weld-on for the new
windscreen and will either go with one of the 3M products or epoxy + cotton
flox.
Regarding the fiberglass around the perimeter, it supposedly help prevents the
cracking in the paint that has shown up in some of the finished -10s. Strictly
cosmetic and relatively easy to add.
Good luck,
Tom Gesele #40473
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Weyant
Subject: RV10-List: Windows Installation
> I have just spent two hours researching info on window
> installation and cleanup for the "Ten". I've learned that
> acetone is not the best thing to use (crazing, cracking),
> mineral spirits leave a "oily" residue, and alcohol hardly
> touches Weld On. Okay then, what to use for cleanup?
>
> I glued in one window yesterday. Not entirely happy with the
> results. Far from 100 per cent flange adhesion, even with
> modest weights added per Van's instructions to the window (areas
> of window and fiberglass flange not mated, some might call them
> bubbles?) Perhaps this is acceptable?
>
> Is everyone using strips of fiberglass over the exterior
> window/fiberglass joint ? If so, why? To hold the window in
> place, to make a smoother transition from plexi to fiberglass, both?
>
> I'm using the stuff Van's recommended for adhesive, Weld-On, and
> not much inclined to change to something else unless Van's says
> so, but this stuff is hard to handle and harder to clean up.
>
> I'm not a total rooky at this building stuff, finished one RV9A
> that turned out really nice, but I'm at my wits end with these
> windows. Any advice would be appreciated.
> Chuck
>
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| Subject: | Re: Windows Installation |
Hey, folks
We're coming up on the same decision...
For those who have chosen to use Sika-flex 295 UV, what do you think
of it by now? It seems to me like a natural choice for our windows.
Does anybody have information to the contrary?
How about experience with 3M 2216?
Marlys and John Ackerman 40458
On Jan 14, 2008, at 4:45 PM, Chuck Weyant wrote:
> I have just spent two hours researching info on window installation
> and cleanup for the "Ten". I've learned that acetone is not the
> best thing to use (crazing, cracking), mineral spirits leave a
> "oily" residue, and alcohol hardly touches Weld On. Okay then,
> what to use for cleanup?
>
> I glued in one window yesterday. Not entirely happy with the
> results. Far from 100 per cent flange adhesion, even with modest
> weights added per Van's instructions to the window (areas of window
> and fiberglass flange not mated, some might call them bubbles?)
> Perhaps this is acceptable?
>
> Is everyone using strips of fiberglass over the exterior window/
> fiberglass joint ? If so, why? To hold the window in place, to
> make a smoother transition from plexi to fiberglass, both?
>
> I'm using the stuff Van's recommended for adhesive, Weld-On, and
> not much inclined to change to something else unless Van's says so,
> but this stuff is hard to handle and harder to clean up.
>
> I'm not a total rooky at this building stuff, finished one RV9A
> that turned out really nice, but I'm at my wits end with these
> windows. Any advice would be appreciated.
> Chuck
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Windows Installation |
I HAVE NEVER USED THIS PRODUCT BUT WHAT IS REALLY PROMISING ABOUT IT IS THA
T IT IS MADE FOR ACRYLIC WINDOWS,
BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY IT HAS 500% ELONGATION BEFORE BREAKAGE. THIS WILL ALLO
W THE PLEXIGLASS TO TRAVEL WHEN IT EXPANDS IN THE HEAT OF THE SUN. OBVIOUSL
Y, A EXPANSION GAP NEEDS TO BE CREATED BETWEEN THE CABIN TOP JOGGLE AND TH
E EDGE OF THE WINDOW.
OVER THE TOP OF THIS, A THIN LAYER OF GLASS CAN COVER THE JOGGLE GAP. OR PE
RHAPS, SINCE THEY SAY THIS STUFF CAN BE TRIMMED iT COULD BE LEFT UNCOIVERRE
D AND UNPAINTED IF IT IS THE BLACK MATERIAL. IT WILL JUST LOOK LIKE RUBBER,
AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T CRACK IN THE SUNLIGHT (PROBABLY WON'T IF IT SAYS UV
IN THE NAME)
JOHN G 409
dO nOT ARCHIVE
From: johnag5b@cableone.netSubject: Re: RV10-List: Windows InstallationDate
: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 09:18:47 -0700To: rv10-list@matronics.comHey, folks
We're coming up on the same decision...
For those who have chosen to use Sika-flex 295 UV, what do you think of it
by now? It seems to me like a natural choice for our windows. Does anybody
have information to the contrary?
How about experience with 3M 2216?
Marlys and John Ackerman 40458
On Jan 14, 2008, at 4:45 PM, Chuck Weyant wrote:
I have just spent two hours researching info on window installation and cle
anup for the "Ten". I've learned that acetone is not the best thing to use
(crazing, cracking), mineral spirits leave a "oily" residue, and alcohol h
ardly touches Weld On. Okay then, what to use for cleanup?
I glued in one window yesterday. Not entirely happy with the results. Far
from 100 per cent flange adhesion, even with modest weights added per Van'
s instructions to the window (areas of window and fiberglass flange not mat
ed, some might call them bubbles?) Perhaps this is acceptable?
Is everyone using strips of fiberglass over the exterior window/fiberglass
joint ? If so, why? To hold the window in place, to make a smoother tran
sition from plexi to fiberglass, both?
I'm using the stuff Van's recommended for adhesive, Weld-On, and not much i
nclined to change to something else unless Van's says so, but this stuff is
hard to handle and harder to clean up.
I'm not a total rooky at this building stuff, finished one RV9A that turned
out really nice, but I'm at my wits end with these windows. Any advice wo
uld be appreciated.
Chuckhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.co
m/contribution
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| Subject: | RV-10 finishing kit-recommended deletions??? |
Ordering my finishing kit in the next two weeks. Engine will be a IO-540.
Other than cowls ( I'm still undecided about James), what recommendations does
the group have as to deletions because other aftermarket items seem to be better
than the items furnished by Van's?
Or is the finishing kit really pretty good as is?
Thanks,
Tom Hanaway
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158324#158324
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 finishing kit-recommended deletions??? |
Skip the nose wheel-valve stem clearence to close.James cowl requires different
(expensive) spinner.I would be interested in anybodies hands on Rv-10 James cowl
experience-Rumor has it there are some bugs.The glass is nicer than vans.
-----Original Message-----
From: tomhanaway <tomhanaway@adelphia.net>
Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 9:57 am
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 finishing kit-recommended deletions???
Ordering my finishing kit in the next two weeks. Engine will be a IO-540.
Other than cowls ( I'm still undecided about James), what recommendations does
the group have as to deletions because other aftermarket items seem to be better
than the items furnished by Van's?
Or is the finishing kit really pretty good as is?
Thanks,
Tom Hanaway
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158324#158324
________________________________________________________________________
Message 8
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| Subject: | Windows Installation |
I used Sikaflex on my canopy on the RV-9. It sticks plexi and fiberglass
like rock !! - there are no holes nor rivets in my canopy or windscreen.
Get some practice with it before you "go live", run some tests on example
pieces, be sure to follow the surface prep instructions, have at least one
extra pair of hands available - once you get started you have to get
finished before the stuff cures, so things move quickly.
Its been in place for a year with no signs of separation - the unknown, I
guess, is the long term.
g
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 9:38 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Windows Installation
I HAVE NEVER USED THIS PRODUCT BUT WHAT IS REALLY PROMISING ABOUT IT IS THAT
IT IS MADE FOR ACRYLIC WINDOWS,
BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY IT HAS 500% ELONGATION BEFORE BREAKAGE. THIS WILL ALLOW
THE PLEXIGLASS TO TRAVEL WHEN IT EXPANDS IN THE HEAT OF THE SUN. OBVIOUSLY,
A EXPANSION GAP NEEDS TO BE CREATED BETWEEN THE CABIN TOP JOGGLE AND THE
EDGE OF THE WINDOW.
OVER THE TOP OF THIS, A THIN LAYER OF GLASS CAN COVER THE JOGGLE GAP. OR
PERHAPS, SINCE THEY SAY THIS STUFF CAN BE TRIMMED iT COULD BE LEFT
UNCOIVERRED AND UNPAINTED IF IT IS THE BLACK MATERIAL. IT WILL JUST LOOK
LIKE RUBBER, AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T CRACK IN THE SUNLIGHT (PROBABLY WON'T IF
IT SAYS UV IN THE NAME)
JOHN G 409
dO nOT ARCHIVE
_____
From: johnag5b@cableone.net
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Windows Installation
Hey, folks
We're coming up on the same decision...
For those who have chosen to use Sika-flex 295 UV, what do you think of it
by now? It seems to me like a natural choice for our windows. Does anybody
have information to the contrary?
How about experience with 3M 2216?
Marlys and John Ackerman 40458
On Jan 14, 2008, at 4:45 PM, Chuck Weyant wrote:
I have just spent two hours researching info on window installation and
cleanup for the "Ten". I've learned that acetone is not the best thing to
use (crazing, cracking), mineral spirits leave a "oily" residue, and alcohol
hardly touches Weld On. Okay then, what to use for cleanup?
I glued in one window yesterday. Not entirely happy with the results. Far
from 100 per cent flange adhesion, even with modest weights added per Van's
instructions to the window (areas of window and fiberglass flange not mated,
some might call them bubbles?) Perhaps this is acceptable?
Is everyone using strips of fiberglass over the exterior window/fiberglass
joint ? If so, why? To hold the window in place, to make a smoother
transition from plexi to fiberglass, both?
I'm using the stuff Van's recommended for adhesive, Weld-On, and not much
inclined to change to something else unless Van's says so, but this stuff is
hard to handle and harder to clean up.
I'm not a total rooky at this building stuff, finished one RV9A that turned
out really nice, but I'm at my wits end with these windows. Any advice
would be appreciated.
Chuck
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 9
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| Subject: | Windows Installation |
Sorry to hear of your window development. Some did not want to hear my
post two + years ago as to what was found with Lancair's and those
darned plastic aircraft. VAN is relatively new to big plastic canopies
which led to a discussion on ways to reduce this likelihood.
Deems gave an excellent alternative method. Jesse who has replaced a
windscreen can add first person perspective on both removal, product
choice and re-installation.
The adhesive agent, the method of mounting and the cleanliness of the
work will all contribute to the final outcome. No one wants to do this
job twice. A similar job can surface with the improper use of fillers
over the countersink head of rivets which secure dissimilar products
like aluminum and fiberglass. Research carefully. The disband usually
takes two to three annual Winter/Summer cycles to fully cure. Pictures
of sunken filler over fasteners (under a $28,000 paint job are available
on request).
I encourage a fiberglass cover strip. I strongly encourage epoxy and not
bondo (polyester filler) on the products.
The great thing here is that there are so many ways to do this task.
Each of us becomes that manufacturer with the end Serviceability of our
efforts the result of our planning and research. My hat is off to Dave
Saylor to share his techniques with the RV-10 group by hosting a
seminar. When working with composites, talk to a composite specialist.
When working with aluminum talk to a Vans builder.
John Cox
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Kermanj
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 3:57 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Windows Installation
Chuck,
I completed my windows per Van's instruction and at first they came out
really nice. After 275 hrs, some of them are showing the joint between
the window and the fiberglass. It is showing as a crack in the paint,
something I have seen on other RV10s.
If I were to do it again, I would use the Weld-On but add a very thin
fiberglass tape to cover the joint. This (I think) will add a lot of
strength to the joint and provide some level of tolerance for imperfect
window adhesion. I would still not relax and do my best to install the
windows as if the tape did not exist.
Rob
On Jan 14, 2008, at 6:45 PM, Chuck Weyant wrote:
I have just spent two hours researching info on window installation and
cleanup for the "Ten". I've learned that acetone is not the best thing
to use (crazing, cracking), mineral spirits leave a "oily" residue, and
alcohol hardly touches Weld On. Okay then, what to use for cleanup?
I glued in one window yesterday. Not entirely happy with the results.
Far from 100 per cent flange adhesion, even with modest weights added
per Van's instructions to the window (areas of window and fiberglass
flange not mated, some might call them bubbles?) Perhaps this is
acceptable?
Is everyone using strips of fiberglass over the exterior
window/fiberglass joint ? If so, why? To hold the window in place, to
make a smoother transition from plexi to fiberglass, both?
I'm using the stuff Van's recommended for adhesive, Weld-On, and not
much inclined to change to something else unless Van's says so, but this
stuff is hard to handle and harder to clean up.
I'm not a total rooky at this building stuff, finished one RV9A that
turned out really nice, but I'm at my wits end with these windows. Any
advice would be appreciated.
Chuck
http://forums.matronics.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Windows Installation |
Hey, thanks guys for all the info. Think I'll stick with the Weld On,
do more taping in the prep (to cut down on cleanup), and do the
fiberglass strip around the exterior perimeter of the windows.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Jay Rowe
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Windows Installation
Chuck: I have completed the four windows and so far they have come
out well (no flight or weather stress). I used epoxy/flox (slow cure)
as the adhesive and a strapping system to hold the windows in place
while they cured ( I used 4 on each window). The strapping was just
simple thin cargo straps wrapped around the plane but using multiple
soft blocks (rubber sanding pads) at multiple locations between the
straps and windows to ensure a tight fit at all 360 degrees around the
window. I had previously doubled taped (electrical) the windows at the
edges----one layer corresponding to the inside rim of the window recess
fiberglass and the second about 1/8 inch outward from the first. After
curing I filled in any remaining gaps between fiberglass and window with
a epoxy/flox/filler mix and then sanded that junction smooth. (The
electrical tape, if you are careful, can take quite a beating and not be
disturbed.). I then put two layers of fiberglass over the
junction----the first layer being about 1 inch wide and the 2nd maybe 1
1/2 wide but sanded smooth between layers. The second layer abutted the
outside (top) layer of tape. When I was happy with how well the result
blended in with the fuselage I then removed the top layer of tape and
very carefully feathered in the fiberglass on that side. I will then
paint to the edge of the 2nd layer of tape. All the above was not my
original idea but a combination of suggestions from various sources
(Dave Saylor, David Jones, Deems, and others). Hope this helps. Jay
Rowe #40301 (just finishing FWF)
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Weyant
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 6:45 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Windows Installation
I have just spent two hours researching info on window
installation and cleanup for the "Ten". I've learned that acetone is
not the best thing to use (crazing, cracking), mineral spirits leave a
"oily" residue, and alcohol hardly touches Weld On. Okay then, what to
use for cleanup?
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Windows Installation |
Chuck,
I completed the windows and windscreen with the help of 2 local composite pros who have done a lot of Lancair work. Now that I have seen how the pros do it, it is not nearly so intimidating. We used Hysol EA9360 available from www.aerospace.henkel.com or its dealers. Actually a Loctite product. My understanding is that Hysol is the adhesive Lancair uses for pressurized windows, wings, etc.
After taping the inner surface of the windows with 2 layers of electrical tape
we painted the exposed window edge and the outer surface of the cabin flange with
Hysol. Then added flox to the Hysol till we had a peanut butter consistency;
applied that about 1/8" thick to the flange. We had at least 1 hour working
time with the Hysol, so there was no rush. Positioned the window on the flange
and clecoed in place with fender washers about every 1.5" The washers are easier
than making the al. fingers some have used, and they put the pressure right
on the edge of the window where you want it. You want a little squeeze out
of the flox both inside and outside. Predrill the holes for the clecos before
mixing the Hysol. While one person clecos around the edge of the window, a second
person inside carefully scrapes off the squeeze out flush with the edge of
the flange. Don't worry about squeeze out on the outside till it cures, when
you can grind or chisel off the excess.
After smoothing the cured Hysol on the outside you will probably have some minor
irregularities which can be filled with flox. We applied a 2 bid layer of glass
to the outside using a trick I have not seen mentioned here before. Maybe
that is because I am the only one who didn't know about it. We positioned 2 layers
of electrical tape on the outside of the window so that the outer edge matched
the inner edge of the flange per usual. Then temporarily taped a layer of
clear painters plastic to the cabin top so that it draped smoothly over the
window. With a Sharpie carefully mark the outer edge of the electrical tape so
that you have a good template of the window flange. Mark the outer edge of this
template where you want the edge of the glass to fall. We made separate pieces
for each corner of the window, with additional straight strips connecting
the corner pieces.You want to end up with a template about 2-2.5" wide that exactly
matches the window flange. Don't cut out the pieces yet. We wound up with
7-8 pieces for each window.
Remove the clear plastic, place it on your cutting table and begin to wet out 2
layers of glass on top of the template. The Sharpie lines will show through.
Orient the glass diagonally on the template so that the corner curves cut smoothly.
Place a second layer of clear plastic on top of the wetted glass and squeegy(sp)
out the excess. Cut out 1 piece of your template, peel off the bottom
layer of plastic, and position the wetted cloth on the window. Focus your efforts
on getting the cloth positioned exactly up to the edge of the electrical
tape. If you take care with this step you will wind up with a nearly finished
edge that needs very little clean up.
Take your time with this. Even with the help of guys who have done this many times
before we still have 20 man hours in doing all the windows, but they look
really slick.
Jim Berry
40482
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158352#158352
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Windows Installation |
Jim, an excellent and detailed post.
I would speculate that your Composite Pro buddies educated you that the
use of microballoons will transfer none of the needed stress. And that
flox is a superior thickening and strengthening agent to the adhesive.
A window secured for pressurized use will (should) certainly meet the
needs of RV-10 drivers.
What is even more important than the great finished appearance, is the
elimination of doing it twice or living with the micro fracture lines in
the future (down the road) as a result of less advanced techniques.
John
40600
Do not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim berry
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 11:36 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Windows Installation
Chuck,
I completed the windows and windscreen with the help of 2 local
composite pros who have done a lot of Lancair work. Now that I have seen
how the pros do it, it is not nearly so intimidating. We used Hysol
EA9360 available from www.aerospace.henkel.com or its dealers. Actually
a Loctite product. My understanding is that Hysol is the adhesive
Lancair uses for pressurized windows, wings, etc.
After taping the inner surface of the windows with 2 layers of
electrical tape we painted the exposed window edge and the outer surface
of the cabin flange with Hysol. Then added flox to the Hysol till we had
a peanut butter consistency; applied that about 1/8" thick to the
flange. We had at least 1 hour working time with the Hysol, so there was
no rush. Positioned the window on the flange and clecoed in place with
fender washers about every 1.5" The washers are easier than making the
al. fingers some have used, and they put the pressure right on the edge
of the window where you want it. You want a little squeeze out of the
flox both inside and outside. Predrill the holes for the clecos before
mixing the Hysol. While one person clecos around the edge of the window,
a second person inside carefully scrapes off the squeeze out flush with
the edge of the flange. Don't worry about squeeze out on the outside
till it cures, when you can grind or chisel off the excess.
After smoothing the cured Hysol on the outside you will probably have
some minor irregularities which can be filled with flox. We applied a 2
bid layer of glass to the outside using a trick I have not seen
mentioned here before. Maybe that is because I am the only one who
didn't know about it. We positioned 2 layers of electrical tape on the
outside of the window so that the outer edge matched the inner edge of
the flange per usual. Then temporarily taped a layer of clear painters
plastic to the cabin top so that it draped smoothly over the window.
With a Sharpie carefully mark the outer edge of the electrical tape so
that you have a good template of the window flange. Mark the outer edge
of this template where you want the edge of the glass to fall. We made
separate pieces for each corner of the window, with additional straight
strips connecting the corner pieces.You want to end up with a template
about 2-2.5" wide that exactly matches the window flange. Don't cut out
the p!
ieces yet. We wound up with 7-8 pieces for each window.
Remove the clear plastic, place it on your cutting table and begin to
wet out 2 layers of glass on top of the template. The Sharpie lines will
show through. Orient the glass diagonally on the template so that the
corner curves cut smoothly. Place a second layer of clear plastic on top
of the wetted glass and squeegy(sp) out the excess. Cut out 1 piece of
your template, peel off the bottom layer of plastic, and position the
wetted cloth on the window. Focus your efforts on getting the cloth
positioned exactly up to the edge of the electrical tape. If you take
care with this step you will wind up with a nearly finished edge that
needs very little clean up.
Take your time with this. Even with the help of guys who have done this
many times before we still have 20 man hours in doing all the windows,
but they look really slick.
Jim Berry
40482
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158352#158352
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| Subject: | Windows Installation |
Marlys and John
We use the 3M 2216 (at the airlines) with great success at adhesion
between sheets of stainless steel being bonded over honeycomb composite
shelf material when repairing galleys and restrooms. It has a slow cure
time and is not real happy with a cooler than specified ambient air
temperature during cure (Closely read the specification sheet). Once
mature, it is rock solid with those two dissimilar products. One of the
disadvantages of the 2216 it has the consistency of honey beckoning for
a Thixotrophic additive to turn it into peanut butter for this vertical
application.
If you haven't purchased the product yet, I would give a "Second Motion"
to Jim Berry's recommendation of Hysol EA9360. There are lots of
examples and flight miles logged with the Lancair fleet. (I can even
offer a picture of the delamination of a pressurized IVP window from
more than FL200 if you think the adhesive and technique is not that
important.)
No opinion on Sika-flex 295 for a couple more years of "in the field"
RV-10 reports. Dave Saylor needs to pipe in here.
Build it Once - Fly Safe - Live Long
John Cox 40600
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Ackerman
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Windows Installation
Hey, folks
We're coming up on the same decision...
For those who have chosen to use Sika-flex 295 UV, what do you think of
it by now? It seems to me like a natural choice for our windows. Does
anybody have information to the contrary?
How about experience with 3M 2216?
Marlys and John Ackerman 40458
On Jan 14, 2008, at 4:45 PM, Chuck Weyant wrote:
I have just spent two hours researching info on window installation and
cleanup for the "Ten". I've learned that acetone is not the best thing
to use (crazing, cracking), mineral spirits leave a "oily" residue, and
alcohol hardly touches Weld On. Okay then, what to use for cleanup?
I glued in one window yesterday. Not entirely happy with the results.
Far from 100 per cent flange adhesion, even with modest weights added
per Van's instructions to the window (areas of window and fiberglass
flange not mated, some might call them bubbles?) Perhaps this is
acceptable?
Is everyone using strips of fiberglass over the exterior
window/fiberglass joint ? If so, why? To hold the window in place, to
make a smoother transition from plexi to fiberglass, both?
I'm using the stuff Van's recommended for adhesive, Weld-On, and not
much inclined to change to something else unless Van's says so, but this
stuff is hard to handle and harder to clean up.
I'm not a total rooky at this building stuff, finished one RV9A that
turned out really nice, but I'm at my wits end with these windows. Any
advice would be appreciated.
Chuck
http://forums.matronics.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
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Message 14
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| Subject: | Windows Installation |
I've been playing with a sample of Hysol EA9360, but have not settled on wh
ich adhesive I will use, so this is a great discussion. The following link
may be of value to others, it's Lancair's chapter on installing the rear wi
ndow in a Legacy: http://www.lancair.com/Main/builders_only/Legacy%20Manual
/Chapter%2025-Aft%20Windows.pdf
One difference between the RV10 and a pressurized Lancair IVP is they glue
their windows to the inside of the fuselage.
Vern Smith (#324 doors & cabin top)
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Windows InstallationDate: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 12:38:19
-0800From: johnwcox@pacificnw.comTo: rv10-list@matronics.com
Marlys and John
We use the 3M 2216 (at the airlines) with great success at adhesion between
sheets of stainless steel being bonded over honeycomb composite shelf mate
rial when repairing galleys and restrooms. It has a slow cure time and is
not real happy with a cooler than specified ambient air temperature during
cure (Closely read the specification sheet). Once mature, it is rock solid
with those two dissimilar products. One of the disadvantages of the 2216
it has the consistency of honey beckoning for a Thixotrophic additive to tu
rn it into peanut butter for this vertical application.
If you haven=92t purchased the product yet, I would give a =93Second Motion
=94 to Jim Berry=92s recommendation of Hysol EA9360. There are lots of exa
mples and flight miles logged with the Lancair fleet. (I can even offer a
picture of the delamination of a pressurized IVP window from more than FL20
0 if you think the adhesive and technique is not that important.)
No opinion on Sika-flex 295 for a couple more years of =93in the field=94 R
V-10 reports. Dave Saylor needs to pipe in here.
Build it Once ' Fly Safe ' Live Long
John Cox 40600
_________________________________________________________________
Make distant family not so distant with Windows Vista=AE + Windows Live=99.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/digitallife/keepintouch.mspx?ocid=TXT_TA
GLM_CPC_VideoChat_distantfamily_012008
Message 15
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| Subject: | Windows Installation |
The RV-10 Family is SO Great!.
Thanks Vern
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vernon Smith
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 1:59 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Windows Installation
I've been playing with a sample of Hysol EA9360, but have not settled on
which adhesive I will use, so this is a great discussion. The following
link may be of value to others, it's Lancair's chapter on installing the
rear window in a Legacy:
http://www.lancair.com/Main/builders_only/Legacy%20Manual/Chapter%2025-A
ft%20Windows.pdf
One difference between the RV10 and a pressurized Lancair IVP is they
glue their windows to the inside of the fuselage.
Vern Smith (#324 doors & cabin top)
________________________________
________________________________
Make distant family not so distant with Windows Vista(r) + Windows
Live(tm). Start now!
<http://www.microsoft.com/windows/digitallife/keepintouch.mspx?ocid=TXT
_
TAGLM_CPC_VideoChat_distantfamily_012008>
Message 16
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Just wanted to ask the group if anyone knows a source for the 14" spinner
required for the James Cowl? It is to bad that the cowl was not designed
and released with an affordable spinner included.
Thanks for any info, so far I have come up short online with e-mail
requests.
Regards,
Thane States
Engine is on the way as are many other expensive goodies!!
Do not archive
Message 17
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The only places I've found are the ones listed on the James website.
And you'll need a second mortgage for any of those. I'm about to bite
the bullet, so if anyone knows of a cheaper one, I'd sure be interested
to hear!
PJ Seipel
RV-10 #40032
Thane States wrote:
>
> Just wanted to ask the group if anyone knows a source for the 14"
> spinner required for the James Cowl? It is to bad that the cowl was
> not designed and released with an affordable spinner included.
> Thanks for any info, so far I have come up short online with e-mail
> requests.
> Regards,
> Thane States
> Engine is on the way as are many other expensive goodies!!
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 18
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The 14" spinner is?available on the MT Propeller.? :-)
Regards,
Jim Ayers
Less drag products, Inc.
-----Original Message-----
From: Thane States <thane2@comporium.net>
Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 3:23 pm
Subject: RV10-List: 14" spinner
?
Just wanted to ask the group if anyone knows a source for the 14" spinner required
for the James Cowl? It is to bad that the cowl was not designed and released
with an affordable spinner included.?
Thanks for any info, so far I have come up short online with e-mail requests.?
Regards,?
Thane States?
Engine is on the way as are many other expensive goodies!!?
?
Do not archive ?
?
?
?
________________________________________________________________________
Message 19
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If you go for an MT prop, you can order it with the 14" spinner, and I
don't believe it costs extra. Oh wait... maybe that's why the MT 3
blade prop is so expensive :)
cj
#40410
not sure where I am...
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of PJ Seipel
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: 14" spinner
The only places I've found are the ones listed on the James website.
And you'll need a second mortgage for any of those. I'm about to bite
the bullet, so if anyone knows of a cheaper one, I'd sure be interested
to hear!
PJ Seipel
RV-10 #40032
Thane States wrote:
>
> Just wanted to ask the group if anyone knows a source for the 14"
> spinner required for the James Cowl? It is to bad that the cowl was
> not designed and released with an affordable spinner included.
> Thanks for any info, so far I have come up short online with e-mail
> requests.
> Regards,
> Thane States
> Engine is on the way as are many other expensive goodies!!
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 20
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Same here
John Cram
40569 waiting on finishing kit
----- Original Message -----
From: PJ Seipel<mailto:seipel@seznam.cz>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com<mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: 14" spinner
<seipel@seznam.cz<mailto:seipel@seznam.cz>>
The only places I've found are the ones listed on the James website.
And you'll need a second mortgage for any of those. I'm about to bite
the bullet, so if anyone knows of a cheaper one, I'd sure be
interested
to hear!
PJ Seipel
RV-10 #40032
Thane States wrote:
<thane2@comporium.net<mailto:thane2@comporium.net>>
>
> Just wanted to ask the group if anyone knows a source for the 14"
> spinner required for the James Cowl? It is to bad that the cowl was
> not designed and released with an affordable spinner included.
> Thanks for any info, so far I have come up short online with e-mail
> requests.
> Regards,
> Thane States
> Engine is on the way as are many other expensive goodies!!
>
> Do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List<http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?RV10-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Windows Installation |
Thanks for the nice writeup.
Kevin
40494
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "jim berry" <jimberry@qwest.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 11:35 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Windows Installation
>
> Chuck,
>
> I completed the windows and windscreen with the help of 2 local composite
> pros who have done a lot of Lancair work. Now that I have seen how the
> pros do it, it is not nearly so intimidating. We used Hysol EA9360
> available from www.aerospace.henkel.com or its dealers. Actually a Loctite
> product. My understanding is that Hysol is the adhesive Lancair uses for
> pressurized windows, wings, etc.
<snipped>
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