Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:49 AM - Re: Upholstery (Michael Wellenzohn)
2. 01:58 AM - Re: anchoring nutplates (MauleDriver)
3. 02:03 AM - MT HiGlo Kevlar Spinner and Prop delivered (Michael Wellenzohn)
4. 02:43 AM - Re: nylon blocks (David McNeill)
5. 02:47 AM - Re: Insurance (David McNeill)
6. 06:19 AM - Re: VA-196 Stall Warning Vane (johngoodman)
7. 06:46 AM - Re: Insurance (Tim Olson)
8. 06:53 AM - Re: Upholstery (Tim Olson)
9. 06:56 AM - Re: anchoring nutplates (Andy Turner)
10. 07:00 AM - Re: Heated Pitot (Kelly McMullen)
11. 07:01 AM - Re: Insurance (Kelly McMullen)
12. 07:38 AM - Re: nylon blocks (Vernon Smith)
13. 07:52 AM - Re: Insurance (GRANSCOTT@aol.com)
14. 09:18 AM - Re: Insurance (Tim Olson)
15. 09:23 AM - Re: Insurance (Pascal)
16. 09:47 AM - Re: Insurance (Tim Olson)
17. 10:00 AM - Re: Insurance (GRANSCOTT@aol.com)
18. 10:25 AM - Re: Insurance (Tim Olson)
19. 11:11 AM - Re: Insurance (Rene Felker)
20. 11:37 AM - Cowling split design? (Phil White)
21. 11:40 AM - Re: Insurance (Tim Olson)
22. 11:49 AM - Re: Cowling split design? ()
23. 11:54 AM - Re: Heated Pitot (Dave Saylor)
24. 12:07 PM - Re: Insurance (Pascal)
25. 12:15 PM - Re: Insurance (Rene Felker)
26. 12:43 PM - Re: Cowling split design? (John W. Cox)
27. 12:52 PM - Re: Heated Pitot (Chris Johnston)
28. 01:12 PM - Re: Heated Pitot (John Jessen)
29. 01:12 PM - Re: Insurance (GRANSCOTT@aol.com)
30. 01:38 PM - Re: Insurance (GRANSCOTT@aol.com)
31. 01:59 PM - Re: Insurance (GRANSCOTT@aol.com)
32. 02:01 PM - Engine Breather Fitting Change? (Eric Parlow)
33. 02:17 PM - Re: Insurance (John W. Cox)
34. 02:20 PM - Re: Heated Pitot (MauleDriver)
35. 02:24 PM - Re: Insurance (Dj Merrill)
36. 02:25 PM - Re: Heated Pitot (Pascal)
37. 02:32 PM - Re: Insurance (Kelly McMullen)
38. 02:38 PM - Re: Insurance (Kelly McMullen)
39. 03:54 PM - HID Landing & Taxi Lights (tom.on.the.road@juno.com)
40. 03:55 PM - Re: Insurance (Tim Olson)
41. 04:54 PM - Re: Insurance (GenGrumpy@aol.com)
42. 05:17 PM - Re: Heated Pitot (Tim Olson)
43. 06:07 PM - Re: HID Landing & Taxi Lights (David McNeill)
44. 06:46 PM - Re: HID Landing & Taxi Lights (Lew Gallagher)
45. 07:11 PM - Slow (Standard) build fuse and wing kits for sale? (Lew Gallagher)
46. 07:23 PM - Re: Slow (Standard) build fuse and wing kits for sale? (GenGrumpy@aol.com)
47. 07:40 PM - Re: HID Landing & Taxi Lights (Steven DiNieri)
48. 08:39 PM - Re: Slow (Standard) build fuse and wing kits for sale? (Rick Sked)
49. 09:39 PM - Insurance (bob.kaufmann)
Message 1
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I am using a microfiber cloth, it is fire resistant and looks and feels like Alcantara
but is 10 times more resistant against rubbing. Spots or dirt won't soak
in but you won't sweat either. It a special produced cloth for the car industry
and for theaters (fire resistant).
It's called Comfort. Attached you'll find some pictures during the upholstery process.
Only issue is that you have to order at least 10 meters (with is 1.4 meters).
Michael
--------
RV-10 builder (fuselage)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159717#159717
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc02607_617.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc02610_130.jpg
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: anchoring nutplates |
Agreed. I ground a corner off my 3/32 die. Works great, standard
rivets, it's used a lot - the extra clearance from the ground-off corner
that is.
Hit me up directly for a pic unless someone beats me to it.
Jeff Carpenter wrote:
>
> Grind down the edge of your female die... It's pretty standard procedure.
>
> Jeff Carpenter
> 40304
> On Jan 21, 2008, at 8:40 PM, "Andy Turner" <aturner@clarion.edu> wrote:
>
>>
>> OK, newbie question here. I'm installing my first nutplates, need to
>> recess the rivet in some way, and ran into the issue with the female
>> die interfering with the nutplate, and on the skin with the screw
>> dimple. I read that the NAS1097 rivets are a neat solution, and it
>> sounded very good, just countersink a little bit and you are good to
>> go. But.....Van's no longer stocks the NAS1097 in the AD3 size, just
>> AD4's. Mysteriously, Aircraft Spruce also stocks just AD4's. So, do
>> you all have a secret supplier? :D
>>
>> -Andy
>>
>> --------
>> Andy Turner
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159688#159688
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | MT HiGlo Kevlar Spinner and Prop delivered |
Attached you'll find some pictures of the HiGlow Spinner and MT Prop.
The delivery box is big but easy to move.
Michael
--------
RV-10 builder (engine, prop, finishing)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159718#159718
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/propintall_887.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/mt_prop_137.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/mthiglo_211.jpg
Message 4
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Thanks. I am getting close to the point of reconciling unused parts. Because
of different fuel valve and inertial belts, I have not needed to install
these blocks. Just trying to make sure that my modifications did not leave
out something critical.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: nylon blocks
Which kit did they came in? It's been a while but the small ones might be
guards for the rear seat belt cables as they go through the baggage
bulkhead. The large ones might guards for the rudder cables inside the
tunnel.
Anh
N591VU-flying
----- Original Message -----
From: David McNeill <mailto:dlm46007@cox.net>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 1:50 PM
Subject: RV10-List: nylon blocks
I have 4 nylon blocks (.125" x 5" x 1" and .125" x 1" x 2"). These are not
the wing spacers.
>From previous kit building they appear to be control stop material. Anybody
know where in the documentation these are referenced?
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ics.com
matronics.com/contribution
Message 5
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I believe that what you want is a high performance endorsement from a CFI.
Secondly don't even ask AVEMCO; Their quoted was double the lowest I found.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 9:50 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Insurance
Don,
I agree with getting a "complex" checkout in hopes that it will lower
the rates, it's also not a bad idea anyway since the RV-10 has a lot going
on inside potentially.
I'd recommend really shopping around. I found significant differences
between quotes (one was twice the rest). I went with AOPA who lined me up
with Falcon Insurance as they had a 'good' price and minimal type
experience. When I first started shopping around I was told I'd get credit
for my RV-6 time, but things changed by the time I was ready to fly.
The only good news to offer is most companies will give you a pretty good
break in the price after the first year, so fly a lot. You can always use
it as an excuse for the high fuel bill that you are preparing for saving on
insurance!
Marcus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of partner14
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 9:33 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Insurance
--> <building_partner@yahoo.com>
I am finishing up my both my RV10 and my pilot license. I am planning on
transition training, but I know because I'm a new pilot I'll probably take a
beating from the insurance people. Any recommendations?
--------
Don A. McDonald
40636
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159680#159680
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: VA-196 Stall Warning Vane |
I didn't install my stall warning vane and I still have the parts bag, if either
of you want it. You pay the postage and I'll mail it.
John
--------
#40572 QB Wings, QB Fuse arrived
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159741#159741
Message 7
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Not sure how much time you have until your RV-10 flies,
but you'll do well to get over the 100 hour point, and
the best thing you can do for yourself is to get your
instrument rating right away. It will keep your skills up
from the private pilot, and it will move them right into the
next level and give you some great knowledge. It will also
build hours very quickly, and force you to get over that
100 hour mark. If you have an instrument rating, they
may have lower hours requirements for insurance. If you
by some stroke of luck could get 200 hours and the instrument
rating, you'd be sitting very good. Oh, and some time in
that process, make sure to get a HP signoff.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
partner14 wrote:
> <building_partner@yahoo.com>
>
> I am finishing up my both my RV10 and my pilot license. I am
> planning on transition training, but I know because I'm a new pilot
> I'll probably take a beating from the insurance people. Any
> recommendations?
>
> -------- Don A. McDonald 40636
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159680#159680
>
Message 8
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Leather looks great....at least until it starts cracking.
If you go leather, there is more upkeep needed to keep the
leather conditioned well to prevent that aging. I'm also
not a fan of leather in summer or winter, due to being
sticky in the summer, and cold at first in the winter. So
cloth was nice. You can have the best of both worlds and
get Abby's half-and-half thing too, so the seat center is
fabric. That's what I ended up with, and I decided on going
with faux leather, because with the large decrease in price,
I won't feel as bad throwing them away and buying new,
should some major damage or aging happen in a few years.
But, there are some people who just love leather seats,
and there's nothing wrong with going that way. You get what
you prefer, and you take care of them as best you can,
and you'll be happy with anything....the seats are super
comfortable either way.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
partner14 wrote:
> <building_partner@yahoo.com>
>
> Pros and cons to leather vs. vinyl vs. cloth? Other than price...
> obviously leather is probably twice as much. Thanks
>
> -------- Don A. McDonald 40636
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159681#159681
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: anchoring nutplates |
Thanks, I'll try both ways. If anyone else is looking, turns out that Wicks stocks
the NAS1097AD3 rivets.
-Andy
--------
Andy Turner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159747#159747
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Heated Pitot |
No regulatory requirement for heated pitot. Depends on typical icing
where you typically fly. I flew years with unheated pitot where I got
rime icing. Never blocked pitot. I would expect it would be more
essential where clear ice is more common. If you stay out of icing
(good plan) heated pitot isn't needed at all, just depends on whether
you feel the need for that extra insurance.
On Jan 22, 2008 12:32 AM, AirMike <Mikeabel@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> I am a high time VFR pilot. I am trying to get my plane set up for lite IFR.
> In other words - installing one Garmin SL30 with GS & Audio w/MB lites
> I have been advised by others in EAA and prior posts on this site that having
a heated Pitot is a must.
>
> Is Gretz GA1000 the best choice. I am already on board with the Advanced Flight
systems AF-3500 system with AOA
>
> --------
> OSH '08 or Bust
> Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159714#159714
>
>
Message 11
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The correct endorsement is "high performance" unless you are building
the prototype RV-10RG. Complex refers to tucking wheels as well as
controllable prop and flaps.
On Jan 21, 2008 9:49 PM, Marcus Cooper <coop85@cableone.net> wrote:
>
> Don,
> I agree with getting a "complex" checkout in hopes that it will lower
> the rates, it's also not a bad idea anyway since the RV-10 has a lot going
> on inside potentially.
>
> I'd recommend really shopping around. I found significant differences
> between quotes (one was twice the rest). I went with AOPA who lined me up
> with Falcon Insurance as they had a 'good' price and minimal type
> experience. When I first started shopping around I was told I'd get credit
> for my RV-6 time, but things changed by the time I was ready to fly.
>
> The only good news to offer is most companies will give you a pretty good
> break in the price after the first year, so fly a lot. You can always use
> it as an excuse for the high fuel bill that you are preparing for saving on
> insurance!
>
> Marcus
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of partner14
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 9:33 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Insurance
>
>
> I am finishing up my both my RV10 and my pilot license. I am planning on
> transition training, but I know because I'm a new pilot I'll probably take a
> beating from the insurance people. Any recommendations?
>
> --------
> Don A. McDonald
> 40636
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159680#159680
>
>
Message 12
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Three places come to mind:
The rudder cable guides on each side of the tunnel next to the fuel valve.
The wear strip for the rudder cables over the center section spar carry th
rough.
The wear blocks on the back luggage compartment wall that supports the rea
r seat shoulder harness cables.
Vern Smith (#324)
Do not archive
From: dlm46007@cox.netTo: rv10-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: RV10-List: ny
lon blocksDate: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 03:37:27 -0700
Thanks. I am getting close to the point of reconciling unused parts. Becaus
e of different fuel valve and inertial belts, I have not needed to install
these blocks. Just trying to make sure that my modifications did not leave
out something critical.
_________________________________________________________________
Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail=AE-get yo
ur "fix".
http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx
Message 13
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In a message dated 1/22/2008 9:05:22 AM Central Standard Time,
apilot2@gmail.com writes:
The correct endorsement is "high performance" unless you are building
the prototype RV-10RG. Complex refers to tucking wheels as well as
controllable prop and flaps.
And having a motor that's over 200+hp with a controllable pitch prop= High
Performance...which is why many planes such as Mooney 201, Cessna Cardinals
with the larger IO-360 are not High Performance aircraft...many have
controllable prop's but the IO-360 many be rated only at 200hp thus not being
over 200hp
they do not comply with the requirement for High Performance.
Another way to get your rates a little lower is to obtain an IFR rating as
soon as possible beyond you Private rating...adding Commercial may lower your
rates even further. More safe flying hours, plus advanced rating and hull
value and type aircraft generally make up the rate you will receive.
I don't believe that Falcon is an Insurance company...rather it is a
brokerage company and they then will contact Insurance companies to get you quotes
on your coverage...additionally they will also need to be a registered in your
state before they can offer insurance for your policy...or something
complicated like that.
P
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 14
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As an addition to the Insurance topic, I just got a call from
NationAir after yesterday faxing them my numbers from my
pilot and airplane times. This year, like last year, my rate
dropped about $300. Last year I used the drop to take my
hull coverage up a bit, so it was a wash. This year though,
I'm leaving it as a decrease. It's just nice to know that
all the time I'm putting on has been moving me up the
scales for discounts.
So, get your HP endorsement, get your Instrument Rating, and
don't be shy about spending money on fuel, and that will
get you cheaper insurance. Of course, to get that discount,
I spent probably $6-8,000 on fuel last year. ;) But, what good
is an RV-10 if it just sits in a hangar. You can buy much
cheaper planes that will give you nearly identical enjoyment
if you just want to park it in a hangar.
This year, I think I'll possibly get my commercial rating,
just to see if that helps a little too.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
GRANSCOTT@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 1/22/2008 9:05:22 AM Central Standard Time,
> apilot2@gmail.com writes:
>
> The correct endorsement is "high performance" unless you are building
> the prototype RV-10RG. Complex refers to tucking wheels as well as
> controllable prop and flaps.
>
> And having a motor that's over 200+hp with a controllable pitch prop=
> High Performance...which is why many planes such as Mooney 201, Cessna
> Cardinals with the larger IO-360 are not High Performance
> aircraft...many have controllable prop's but the IO-360 many be rated
> only at 200hp thus not being over 200hp they do not comply with the
> requirement for High Performance.
>
> Another way to get your rates a little lower is to obtain an IFR rating
> as soon as possible beyond you Private rating...adding Commercial may
> lower your rates even further. More safe flying hours, plus advanced
> rating and hull value and type aircraft generally make up the rate you
> will receive.
>
> I don't believe that Falcon is an Insurance company...rather it is a
> brokerage company and they then will contact Insurance companies to get
> you quotes on your coverage...additionally they will also need to be a
> registered in your state before they can offer insurance for your
> policy...or something complicated like that.
>
> P
>
>
Message 15
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Oh, and some time in that process, make sure to get a HP signoff.
wouldn't getting the transition training with Alex or Mike get one this
signoff? I would think it would be wise for most to get the training as a
good step to that first flight.
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 6:41 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insurance
>
> Not sure how much time you have until your RV-10 flies,
> but you'll do well to get over the 100 hour point, and
> the best thing you can do for yourself is to get your
> instrument rating right away. It will keep your skills up
> from the private pilot, and it will move them right into the
> next level and give you some great knowledge. It will also
> build hours very quickly, and force you to get over that
> 100 hour mark. If you have an instrument rating, they
> may have lower hours requirements for insurance. If you
> by some stroke of luck could get 200 hours and the instrument
> rating, you'd be sitting very good. Oh, and some time in
> that process, make sure to get a HP signoff.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> partner14 wrote:
>> <building_partner@yahoo.com>
>>
>> I am finishing up my both my RV10 and my pilot license. I am
>> planning on transition training, but I know because I'm a new pilot
>> I'll probably take a beating from the insurance people. Any
>> recommendations?
>>
>> -------- Don A. McDonald 40636
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159680#159680
>>
>
>
>
Message 16
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Yes, you should be able to get the HP signoff from Alex or
Mike, if you don't get it before then. The most important
thing is the signoff, but all of your HP time, and other
"special" sorts of time you have, may also qualify you for
better insurance rates too, so if you're renting, and can
rent a HP plane, you may actually benefit from that rental
choice too. Just don't forget to get the signoff, one way
or the other, because you'll definitely want HP endorsement
for the RV-10...unless you do something drastically different
in engine choices. Anyone want to try out that Rotax
that got advertized a couple days ago? ;)
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Pascal wrote:
>
> Oh, and some time in that process, make sure to get a HP signoff.
>
>
> wouldn't getting the transition training with Alex or Mike get one this
> signoff? I would think it would be wise for most to get the training as
> a good step to that first flight.
> Pascal
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 6:41 AM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insurance
>
>
>>
>> Not sure how much time you have until your RV-10 flies,
>> but you'll do well to get over the 100 hour point, and
>> the best thing you can do for yourself is to get your
>> instrument rating right away. It will keep your skills up
>> from the private pilot, and it will move them right into the
>> next level and give you some great knowledge. It will also
>> build hours very quickly, and force you to get over that
>> 100 hour mark. If you have an instrument rating, they
>> may have lower hours requirements for insurance. If you
>> by some stroke of luck could get 200 hours and the instrument
>> rating, you'd be sitting very good. Oh, and some time in
>> that process, make sure to get a HP signoff.
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> partner14 wrote:
>>> <building_partner@yahoo.com>
>>>
>>> I am finishing up my both my RV10 and my pilot license. I am
>>> planning on transition training, but I know because I'm a new pilot
>>> I'll probably take a beating from the insurance people. Any
>>> recommendations?
>>>
>>> -------- Don A. McDonald 40636
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159680#159680
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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In a message dated 1/22/2008 11:27:03 AM Central Standard Time,
rv10builder@verizon.net writes:
wouldn't getting the transition training with Alex or Mike get one this
signoff?
I don't think this is automatic, you would need to inform the CFI that
you're requesting this instruction and sign off and then perform the tasks
required to get the sign off...not very complicated but you'll need to get
instruction then the sign off. I don't believe there is a set hours on either
HP or
complex but just the sign off by the CFI.
One thing additionally you may want to question from your carrier is if you
complete a formal training course on your aircraft or some other type of
course could you receive a discount to your rate...such as the FAA's Wings course
and follow up instruction with a CFI (part of your transition training) or a
recognised course such as the Cessna FITS course...Mooney other courses set
up by their associations. Sometimes these course cost is more than justify by
the discount you'll receive.
I know this is pretty obvious but genreally, the largest portions of your
insurance cost is the hull's value you list...certainly if you're a low time
pilot with a fresh IFR to boot in an expensive high performance aircraft; your
insurance will be pretty high the first couple of years and should decrease
as you gain experience and additional ratings.
I understand that it pretty typical for some Cirrus pilots to be paying up
to $5k or more for policies on the SR22, while a pilot of similar experience
in a Dakota would only pay $1.5k. Happened to one of my original partners in
our 235...went from that to a PA 28-300 then on to the SR 22...he
additionally had more experience and rates by the time be bought into the 22 but
with
the accidents rates the pool is shark infested.
P
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 18
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Actually, wasn't it just a couple years ago that brand-new
Cirrus insurance was costing some people $10K, and only
recently did they get some big drop in rates? I'm sure
that all still depends on the pilot qualifications, but
I thought the rates on 400-500K of hull were in that
10K range previously.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
GRANSCOTT@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 1/22/2008 11:27:03 AM Central Standard Time,
> rv10builder@verizon.net writes:
>
> wouldn't getting the transition training with Alex or Mike get one this
> signoff?
>
> I don't think this is automatic, you would need to inform the CFI that
> you're requesting this instruction and sign off and then perform the
> tasks required to get the sign off...not very complicated but you'll
> need to get instruction then the sign off. I don't believe there is a
> set hours on either HP or complex but just the sign off by the CFI.
>
> One thing additionally you may want to question from your carrier is if
> you complete a formal training course on your aircraft or some other
> type of course could you receive a discount to your rate...such as the
> FAA's Wings course and follow up instruction with a CFI (part of your
> transition training) or a recognised course such as the Cessna FITS
> course...Mooney other courses set up by their associations. Sometimes
> these course cost is more than justify by the discount you'll receive.
>
> I know this is pretty obvious but genreally, the largest portions of
> your insurance cost is the hull's value you list...certainly if you're a
> low time pilot with a fresh IFR to boot in an expensive high performance
> aircraft; your insurance will be pretty high the first couple of years
> and should decrease as you gain experience and additional ratings.
>
> I understand that it pretty typical for some Cirrus pilots to be paying
> up to $5k or more for policies on the SR22, while a pilot of similar
> experience in a Dakota would only pay $1.5k. Happened to one of my
> original partners in our 235...went from that to a PA 28-300 then on to
> the SR 22...he additionally had more experience and rates by the time be
> bought into the 22 but with the accidents rates the pool is shark infested.
>
> P
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape
> <http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489>
> in the new year.
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 19
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Just an idea to throw out.....bring on the flames. One way of building time
would be to find someone working on their instrument rating or just doing
practice approaches and fly with them. You must be able to act as pilot in
command for the aircraft being flown, but you can log the PIC time. Also,
you will get the benefit of learning a lot about practice approaches, holds,
etc.....actual IFR...not so much.
Rene' Felker
N423CF
40322
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insurance
Yes, you should be able to get the HP signoff from Alex or
Mike, if you don't get it before then. The most important
thing is the signoff, but all of your HP time, and other
"special" sorts of time you have, may also qualify you for
better insurance rates too, so if you're renting, and can
rent a HP plane, you may actually benefit from that rental
choice too. Just don't forget to get the signoff, one way
or the other, because you'll definitely want HP endorsement
for the RV-10...unless you do something drastically different
in engine choices. Anyone want to try out that Rotax
that got advertized a couple days ago? ;)
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Pascal wrote:
>
> Oh, and some time in that process, make sure to get a HP signoff.
>
>
> wouldn't getting the transition training with Alex or Mike get one this
> signoff? I would think it would be wise for most to get the training as
> a good step to that first flight.
> Pascal
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 6:41 AM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insurance
>
>
>>
>> Not sure how much time you have until your RV-10 flies,
>> but you'll do well to get over the 100 hour point, and
>> the best thing you can do for yourself is to get your
>> instrument rating right away. It will keep your skills up
>> from the private pilot, and it will move them right into the
>> next level and give you some great knowledge. It will also
>> build hours very quickly, and force you to get over that
>> 100 hour mark. If you have an instrument rating, they
>> may have lower hours requirements for insurance. If you
>> by some stroke of luck could get 200 hours and the instrument
>> rating, you'd be sitting very good. Oh, and some time in
>> that process, make sure to get a HP signoff.
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> partner14 wrote:
>>> <building_partner@yahoo.com>
>>>
>>> I am finishing up my both my RV10 and my pilot license. I am
>>> planning on transition training, but I know because I'm a new pilot
>>> I'll probably take a beating from the insurance people. Any
>>> recommendations?
>>>
>>> -------- Don A. McDonald 40636
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159680#159680
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Cowling split design? |
Is there a reason all the cowlings I have seen are split as top and
bottom halves? Perhaps for structural or aerodynamic pressure reasons?
On a nosewheel plane, it would seem much easier to deal with cowl
removal if it were split into left and right halves.
Inquiring minds want to know if I should rework my RV-10 cowl.
Phil #40220 w/Mazda 20B - engine work
Message 21
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You can't really use that to actually build time, because
you aren't PIC. Now, if you were the sole manipulator
of the controls, while the other guy was the PIC, that
might not be totally the case, but, what good is the
instrument approach practice to that guy if you're
the one solely manipulating the controls of the plane.
And, you can't log PIC time if you're a non-certified
pilot hauling passengers who are non-instructors.
Otherwise people wouldn't bother to fly the time to
get their rating...they'd just manipulate the controls
while a buddy pilot acts as the true PIC. I'm not
saying it's not of any benefit, but really, the only way
to honestly and legitimately build loggable time is to
go out and do the flying. Also, read this last month's
AOPA article by that legal column guy and find out how
the NTSB/FAA takes it when the right-seat pilot is
manipulating the controls. It got kind of spooky how
suddenly you assume the role as PIC and could end up
being "in charge" if there is any sort of incident.
What you want to add, if possible, is true, loggable PIC
time, to help with insurance rates. But, you're 100% right
that from a standpoint of getting yourself some IFR related
education, it would be fantastic to go along and fly with
someone doing their instrument rating....it may help when
it comes time to plan your panel. If you're going to do
that though, you may as well finish the Private Pilot, and
at least finish and pass the written for the Instrument
rating. You don't even need to take ground school to
take and pass the written, and there's a heck of a lot
of good info there.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Rene Felker wrote:
>
> Just an idea to throw out.....bring on the flames. One way of building time
> would be to find someone working on their instrument rating or just doing
> practice approaches and fly with them. You must be able to act as pilot in
> command for the aircraft being flown, but you can log the PIC time. Also,
> you will get the benefit of learning a lot about practice approaches, holds,
> etc.....actual IFR...not so much.
>
> Rene' Felker
> N423CF
> 40322
> 801-721-6080
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 10:41 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insurance
>
>
> Yes, you should be able to get the HP signoff from Alex or
> Mike, if you don't get it before then. The most important
> thing is the signoff, but all of your HP time, and other
> "special" sorts of time you have, may also qualify you for
> better insurance rates too, so if you're renting, and can
> rent a HP plane, you may actually benefit from that rental
> choice too. Just don't forget to get the signoff, one way
> or the other, because you'll definitely want HP endorsement
> for the RV-10...unless you do something drastically different
> in engine choices. Anyone want to try out that Rotax
> that got advertized a couple days ago? ;)
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Pascal wrote:
>>
>> Oh, and some time in that process, make sure to get a HP signoff.
>>
>>
>> wouldn't getting the transition training with Alex or Mike get one this
>> signoff? I would think it would be wise for most to get the training as
>> a good step to that first flight.
>> Pascal
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 6:41 AM
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insurance
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Not sure how much time you have until your RV-10 flies,
>>> but you'll do well to get over the 100 hour point, and
>>> the best thing you can do for yourself is to get your
>>> instrument rating right away. It will keep your skills up
>>> from the private pilot, and it will move them right into the
>>> next level and give you some great knowledge. It will also
>>> build hours very quickly, and force you to get over that
>>> 100 hour mark. If you have an instrument rating, they
>>> may have lower hours requirements for insurance. If you
>>> by some stroke of luck could get 200 hours and the instrument
>>> rating, you'd be sitting very good. Oh, and some time in
>>> that process, make sure to get a HP signoff.
>>>
>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>>> do not archive
>>>
>>>
>>> partner14 wrote:
>>>> <building_partner@yahoo.com>
>>>>
>>>> I am finishing up my both my RV10 and my pilot license. I am
>>>> planning on transition training, but I know because I'm a new pilot
>>>> I'll probably take a beating from the insurance people. Any
>>>> recommendations?
>>>>
>>>> -------- Don A. McDonald 40636
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159680#159680
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Cowling split design? |
Phil:
Take a look at: www.eggenfellneraircraft.com There are lots of shots of
RV-10's with the cowl split vertically. This is the way my -10 will be
done.
We'll have to get together one of these days, and compare lies...I am here
in Naperville...if you remember, I came over and looked at your project a
couple of years ago.
My -10 now has the engine installed, and am doing the wiring.
Regards,
Steve Mills N750SM (reserved)
RV-10 40486 Slow-build Eggenfellner E-6TI
Naperville, Illinois
Finishing kit, engine install
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phil White
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 1:32 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Cowling split design?
Is there a reason all the cowlings I have seen are split as top and bottom
halves? Perhaps for structural or aerodynamic pressure reasons?
On a nosewheel plane, it would seem much easier to deal with cowl removal if
it were split into left and right halves.
Inquiring minds want to know if I should rework my RV-10 cowl.
Phil #40220 w/Mazda 20B - engine work
Message 23
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We've installed two or three. They work very well. I have one on my 10.
I haven't been in ice with it but another plane in our hangar has a few
times. No problems.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 11:32 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Heated Pitot
I am a high time VFR pilot. I am trying to get my plane set up for lite IFR.
In other words - installing one Garmin SL30 with GS & Audio w/MB lites I
have been advised by others in EAA and prior posts on this site that having
a heated Pitot is a must.
Is Gretz GA1000 the best choice. I am already on board with the Advanced
Flight systems AF-3500 system with AOA
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159714#159714
Message 24
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Anyone try the Van's programs? VanGuard or skysmith
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/insure.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 2:42 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Insurance
>
> I believe that what you want is a high performance endorsement from a CFI.
> Secondly don't even ask AVEMCO; Their quoted was double the lowest I
> found.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 9:50 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Insurance
>
>
> Don,
> I agree with getting a "complex" checkout in hopes that it will lower
> the rates, it's also not a bad idea anyway since the RV-10 has a lot going
> on inside potentially.
>
> I'd recommend really shopping around. I found significant differences
> between quotes (one was twice the rest). I went with AOPA who lined me up
> with Falcon Insurance as they had a 'good' price and minimal type
> experience. When I first started shopping around I was told I'd get
> credit
> for my RV-6 time, but things changed by the time I was ready to fly.
>
> The only good news to offer is most companies will give you a pretty good
> break in the price after the first year, so fly a lot. You can always use
> it as an excuse for the high fuel bill that you are preparing for saving
> on
> insurance!
>
> Marcus
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of partner14
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 9:33 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Insurance
>
> --> <building_partner@yahoo.com>
>
> I am finishing up my both my RV10 and my pilot license. I am planning on
> transition training, but I know because I'm a new pilot I'll probably take
> a
> beating from the insurance people. Any recommendations?
>
> --------
> Don A. McDonald
> 40636
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159680#159680
>
>
>
Message 25
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Just for clarification......
1. Pilot not flying, right seat guy/gal must be rated and current in the
aircraft to fly as safety pilot.
2. Pilot not flying, assumes PIC for a portion (while pilot flying is under
the hood) of the flight.
3. Both pilots can log time.
It is just a way to build a little time at little or no expense.
Also, pilot not flying is a required crew member ...........
I fly a lot with other pilots and always make sure that we agree on who is
PIC and who is not.....even with my instructor.
Rene' Felker
N423CF
40322
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insurance
You can't really use that to actually build time, because
you aren't PIC. Now, if you were the sole manipulator
of the controls, while the other guy was the PIC, that
might not be totally the case, but, what good is the
instrument approach practice to that guy if you're
the one solely manipulating the controls of the plane.
And, you can't log PIC time if you're a non-certified
pilot hauling passengers who are non-instructors.
Otherwise people wouldn't bother to fly the time to
get their rating...they'd just manipulate the controls
while a buddy pilot acts as the true PIC. I'm not
saying it's not of any benefit, but really, the only way
to honestly and legitimately build loggable time is to
go out and do the flying. Also, read this last month's
AOPA article by that legal column guy and find out how
the NTSB/FAA takes it when the right-seat pilot is
manipulating the controls. It got kind of spooky how
suddenly you assume the role as PIC and could end up
being "in charge" if there is any sort of incident.
What you want to add, if possible, is true, loggable PIC
time, to help with insurance rates. But, you're 100% right
that from a standpoint of getting yourself some IFR related
education, it would be fantastic to go along and fly with
someone doing their instrument rating....it may help when
it comes time to plan your panel. If you're going to do
that though, you may as well finish the Private Pilot, and
at least finish and pass the written for the Instrument
rating. You don't even need to take ground school to
take and pass the written, and there's a heck of a lot
of good info there.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Rene Felker wrote:
>
> Just an idea to throw out.....bring on the flames. One way of building
time
> would be to find someone working on their instrument rating or just doing
> practice approaches and fly with them. You must be able to act as pilot
in
> command for the aircraft being flown, but you can log the PIC time. Also,
> you will get the benefit of learning a lot about practice approaches,
holds,
> etc.....actual IFR...not so much.
>
> Rene' Felker
> N423CF
> 40322
> 801-721-6080
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 10:41 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insurance
>
>
> Yes, you should be able to get the HP signoff from Alex or
> Mike, if you don't get it before then. The most important
> thing is the signoff, but all of your HP time, and other
> "special" sorts of time you have, may also qualify you for
> better insurance rates too, so if you're renting, and can
> rent a HP plane, you may actually benefit from that rental
> choice too. Just don't forget to get the signoff, one way
> or the other, because you'll definitely want HP endorsement
> for the RV-10...unless you do something drastically different
> in engine choices. Anyone want to try out that Rotax
> that got advertized a couple days ago? ;)
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Pascal wrote:
>>
>> Oh, and some time in that process, make sure to get a HP signoff.
>>
>>
>> wouldn't getting the transition training with Alex or Mike get one this
>> signoff? I would think it would be wise for most to get the training as
>> a good step to that first flight.
>> Pascal
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 6:41 AM
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insurance
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Not sure how much time you have until your RV-10 flies,
>>> but you'll do well to get over the 100 hour point, and
>>> the best thing you can do for yourself is to get your
>>> instrument rating right away. It will keep your skills up
>>> from the private pilot, and it will move them right into the
>>> next level and give you some great knowledge. It will also
>>> build hours very quickly, and force you to get over that
>>> 100 hour mark. If you have an instrument rating, they
>>> may have lower hours requirements for insurance. If you
>>> by some stroke of luck could get 200 hours and the instrument
>>> rating, you'd be sitting very good. Oh, and some time in
>>> that process, make sure to get a HP signoff.
>>>
>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>>> do not archive
>>>
>>>
>>> partner14 wrote:
>>>> <building_partner@yahoo.com>
>>>>
>>>> I am finishing up my both my RV10 and my pilot license. I am
>>>> planning on transition training, but I know because I'm a new pilot
>>>> I'll probably take a beating from the insurance people. Any
>>>> recommendations?
>>>>
>>>> -------- Don A. McDonald 40636
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159680#159680
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Cowling split design? |
Phil - The theory, though currently improperly applied, is that the
upper half (the High Pressure) will flex and distort during flight.
This phenomena is from both ram air into the openings (internally) and
the low pressure over the top (externally). Two might take a greater
strain on the fastening system.
Both the Upper and Lower cowl pieces can be easily released from the
molds that way.
The quality (or lack thereof) is a result of the mold build, the mold
prep, the release agent (Partall), along with the pride of workmanship
"built in". If the two final halves were joined structurally into one
big plug, then separated at the top and bottom, it would make for a most
interesting finished product. Composite ribs installed on the interior
could significantly reduce the perceived flex on either a piano hinge or
a fastener connected left and right half.
This solution you are proposing would be a boone to all three blade
builders. Six of one - half a dozen on the former.
However the placement of the piano hinge pin into a full semi-circle
(Left and Right halves) rather than a quad could be quite challenging.
For the fastener crowd, it could be a no-brainer. Removal of each side
would actually be easier.
John #40600
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phil White
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 11:32 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Cowling split design?
Is there a reason all the cowlings I have seen are split as top and
bottom halves? Perhaps for structural or aerodynamic pressure reasons?
On a nosewheel plane, it would seem much easier to deal with cowl
removal if it were split into left and right halves.
Inquiring minds want to know if I should rework my RV-10 cowl.
Phil #40220 w/Mazda 20B - engine work
Message 27
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Just a point of interest that I'd add here.
***alert - dark and stormy night story below! If you're bored by dumb
newbie flying stories, it would suffice to say that I'm pro pitot heat
for an aircraft that is meant to fly cross country, or any IFR flights.
Last year I was working on my instrument rating, and it just happened to
be the rainiest couple months that SoCal had on record, which was just
perfect for getting actual IMC time. During one of my more stressful
flights, we were puttering around the Los Angeles area, doing approaches
into a bunch of different airports. It was bumpy, it was night, and it
was a handful. One of those flights that you just have to keep battling
with your inner ear, because if you didn't have a good scan going, you'd
believe that the airplane was doing backflips. The freezing level
dropped a bit, and we started picking up rime ice. We started to head
back to SMO, and with all that was going on, I forgot to turn on the
pitot heat. It really should have been on from takeoff. Anyway, I was
already seeing that we weren't getting the speed that we should have at
a known power setting. It was just a couple knots slow, but since we
were in the clouds, we knew it wouldn't be long before a bit slow turned
into real slow. Now I'm staring at the ASI and comparing it to the ALT,
the VSI, and the AI, keeping my scan going, and the ASI slows, slows,
slows, and goes to zero. During the time that it was slowing, my brain
had to work overtime comparing instruments to sort out what was
happening. I had figured it out before it got to zero and flipped on
the pitot heat. The instructor and I just sat there, waiting for it to
come back alive. Which it did after what seemed like an eternity. All
that partial panel stuff really works, but at the time I was very much
in practice. Ultimately, we advised ATC of our situation, got lower
(after what seemed like forever waiting for a Lear or Citation to get
down ahead of us) and landed home safe. I obviously learned quite a bit
from this experience, and it remains the absolute scariest experience
that I've had in an airplane. I'd caution against the notion of light
IFR, and I would never contemplate flying IFR without pitot heat. You
definitely never mean to pick up ice, and the above was my only (to
date) experience with it. knowing a bit more today than I did when this
happened, I realize now that my personal minimums are quite a bit higher
than my instructors were. I dunno. I guess that's a really long way of
saying that I think pitot heat is cheap and worthwhile insurance.
Just my experience, and just to be clear, I'm probably the lowest PIC
time instrument rated pilot you'll find. I gots lots to learn.
Cj
#40410
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
McMullen
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 6:50 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Heated Pitot
No regulatory requirement for heated pitot. Depends on typical icing
where you typically fly. I flew years with unheated pitot where I got
rime icing. Never blocked pitot. I would expect it would be more
essential where clear ice is more common. If you stay out of icing
(good plan) heated pitot isn't needed at all, just depends on whether
you feel the need for that extra insurance.
On Jan 22, 2008 12:32 AM, AirMike <Mikeabel@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> I am a high time VFR pilot. I am trying to get my plane set up for
lite IFR.
> In other words - installing one Garmin SL30 with GS & Audio w/MB lites
> I have been advised by others in EAA and prior posts on this site that
having a heated Pitot is a must.
>
> Is Gretz GA1000 the best choice. I am already on board with the
Advanced Flight systems AF-3500 system with AOA
>
> --------
> OSH '08 or Bust
> Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159714#159714
>
>
Message 28
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CJ: good story to share, and good logic that a heated pitot is a cheap
insurance (life) investment. If you plan to have an IFR panel, do it right.
Backup instrumentation, navs, comms, batteries for critical flight
instruments, electrical generation... Don't screw around with IFR. Don't
ever consider IFR as light vs something else. Consider it IFR, period. End
of rant.
John Jessen
40328
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnston
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 12:47 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Heated Pitot
--> <CJohnston@popsound.com>
Just a point of interest that I'd add here.
***alert - dark and stormy night story below! If you're bored by dumb newbie
flying stories, it would suffice to say that I'm pro pitot heat for an
aircraft that is meant to fly cross country, or any IFR flights.
Last year I was working on my instrument rating, and it just happened to be
the rainiest couple months that SoCal had on record, which was just perfect
for getting actual IMC time. During one of my more stressful flights, we
were puttering around the Los Angeles area, doing approaches into a bunch of
different airports. It was bumpy, it was night, and it was a handful. One
of those flights that you just have to keep battling with your inner ear,
because if you didn't have a good scan going, you'd believe that the
airplane was doing backflips. The freezing level dropped a bit, and we
started picking up rime ice. We started to head back to SMO, and with all
that was going on, I forgot to turn on the pitot heat. It really should
have been on from takeoff. Anyway, I was already seeing that we weren't
getting the speed that we should have at a known power setting. It was just
a couple knots slow, but since we were in the clouds, we knew it wouldn't be
long before a bit slow turned into real slow. Now I'm staring at the ASI
and comparing it to the ALT, the VSI, and the AI, keeping my scan going, and
the ASI slows, slows, slows, and goes to zero. During the time that it was
slowing, my brain had to work overtime comparing instruments to sort out
what was happening. I had figured it out before it got to zero and flipped
on the pitot heat. The instructor and I just sat there, waiting for it to
come back alive. Which it did after what seemed like an eternity. All that
partial panel stuff really works, but at the time I was very much in
practice. Ultimately, we advised ATC of our situation, got lower (after
what seemed like forever waiting for a Lear or Citation to get down ahead of
us) and landed home safe. I obviously learned quite a bit from this
experience, and it remains the absolute scariest experience that I've had in
an airplane. I'd caution against the notion of light IFR, and I would never
contemplate flying IFR without pitot heat. You definitely never mean to
pick up ice, and the above was my only (to
date) experience with it. knowing a bit more today than I did when this
happened, I realize now that my personal minimums are quite a bit higher
than my instructors were. I dunno. I guess that's a really long way of
saying that I think pitot heat is cheap and worthwhile insurance.
Just my experience, and just to be clear, I'm probably the lowest PIC time
instrument rated pilot you'll find. I gots lots to learn.
Cj
#40410
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 6:50 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Heated Pitot
No regulatory requirement for heated pitot. Depends on typical icing where
you typically fly. I flew years with unheated pitot where I got rime icing.
Never blocked pitot. I would expect it would be more essential where clear
ice is more common. If you stay out of icing (good plan) heated pitot isn't
needed at all, just depends on whether you feel the need for that extra
insurance.
On Jan 22, 2008 12:32 AM, AirMike <Mikeabel@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> I am a high time VFR pilot. I am trying to get my plane set up for
lite IFR.
> In other words - installing one Garmin SL30 with GS & Audio w/MB lites
> I have been advised by others in EAA and prior posts on this site that
having a heated Pitot is a must.
>
> Is Gretz GA1000 the best choice. I am already on board with the
Advanced Flight systems AF-3500 system with AOA
>
> --------
> OSH '08 or Bust
> Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159714#159714
>
>
Message 29
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In a message dated 1/22/2008 1:15:13 PM Central Standard Time,
rene@felker.com writes:
but you can log the PIC time.
Rene,
Pretty sure you can log the time but not as PIC unless you're a CFI/I giving
instruction to a student...
P
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 30
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In a message dated 1/22/2008 2:17:46 PM Central Standard Time,
rene@felker.com writes:
Just for clarification......
1. Pilot not flying, right seat guy/gal must be rated and current in the
aircraft to fly as safety pilot.
2. Pilot not flying, assumes PIC for a portion (while pilot flying is under
the hood) of the flight.
3. Both pilots can log time.
It is just a way to build a little time at little or no expense.
Also, pilot not flying is a required crew member ...........
I fly a lot with other pilots and always make sure that we agree on who is
PIC and who is not.....even with my instructor.
Rene',
You may want to take a look at FAR 61.51...PIC is the pilot flying the plane
(the sole manipulator of the controls) while the other person is a "safety
pilot" and not PIC unless 61.51(e) (3)..."an authorized insturctor may log as
PIC time all flight time while acting as an authorized instructor"..."PIC
time for a pilot is only when you are the sole manipulator of the controls for
which the pilot is rated or has priveleges"...if you act as Safety Pilot and
you are not manipulator of the controls you're not PIC...the pilot flying under
the "hood" is PIC, you can log time but not PIC time, unless you are the
CFI/I.
Your point on required crew member is only true if the aircraft you are
operating is covered by 61.55 and this covers how the aircraft is certificated
not the operation you're performing..I really don't think to many part 91
aircraft have a second in command (required crew member per operation certificate)
requirement...
I don't think it says anywhere that the person acting as safety pilot needs
to be current or have a current medical for that matter either just that they
have to be rated for category and class.
If you and your mates are logging PIC time incorrectly, well that's your
matter. But you may want to re-read the regulation and discuss it with a member
from the FSDO or a master CFI/I...IMHO
Patrick
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 31
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In a message dated 1/22/2008 3:41:14 PM Central Standard Time,
GRANSCOTT@aol.com writes:
It is just a way to build a little time at little or no expense.
I'm sure you take the "safety pilot" as a serious position and keep a
healthy scan going...if you read through the NTSB accident reports...note how
many
accidents occur to CFI's and pilots out practicing IFR conditions. It's more
than one thinks...
P
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 32
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| Subject: | Engine Breather Fitting Change? |
Does Van's in the FFw kit recommend changing the breather hose nipple fitti
ng from the 3/4" fitting that was supplied with the engine to a 1/2" fittin
g?
ERic--
RV-10 40014
N104EP
Message 33
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Patrick, great catch.
As a retired Pilot Examiner, it is true that the currency of a medical
is not a requirement for Right Seat. Second in Command also has nothing
to do with "Required Crew" which by nature is a tattoo placed in the
Aircraft Limitations and does not get removed without a lot of
re-submittal of paperwork with your FSDO. Warbirds have extinguished
that issue in the effort to take Fat Cats up for joyrides during
waivered airspace in conjunction with airshows. Required Crew is
forever. Restricted to Solo flight is time specific.
When the Phase One says "Restricted to Solo flight" good luck with your
armchair attorney trying to persuade the casualty insurance carrier that
your "Good Buddy" was operating as "Required Crew" while you said "Hold
my Beer and Watch This" as you log off your Phase One. Pen and Ink
Logbook entries will always be with us. Great Examiners and Instructors
can find those patterns quickly. It has something to do with the
certification statement they sign that they have personally reviewed
such entries.
These interpretations have come down from Washington Legal and are not
open to individual FSDO Inspector interpretation. Attorneys are strange
about such stuff.
Stay Safe, take along a current Gold Seal CFI or II (who knows your make
and model of aircraft) and both of you get to log it.
John
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
GRANSCOTT@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insurance
In a message dated 1/22/2008 2:17:46 PM Central Standard Time,
rene@felker.com writes:
Just for clarification......
1. Pilot not flying, right seat guy/gal must be rated and
current in the
aircraft to fly as safety pilot.
2. Pilot not flying, assumes PIC for a portion (while pilot
flying is under
the hood) of the flight.
3. Both pilots can log time.
It is just a way to build a little time at little or no expense.
Also, pilot not flying is a required crew member ...........
I fly a lot with other pilots and always make sure that we agree
on who is
PIC and who is not.....even with my instructor.
Rene',
You may want to take a look at FAR 61.51...PIC is the pilot flying the
plane (the sole manipulator of the controls) while the other person is a
"safety pilot" and not PIC unless 61.51(e) (3)..."an authorized
insturctor may log as PIC time all flight time while acting as an
authorized instructor"..."PIC time for a pilot is only when you are the
sole manipulator of the controls for which the pilot is rated or has
priveleges"...if you act as Safety Pilot and you are not manipulator of
the controls you're not PIC...the pilot flying under the "hood" is PIC,
you can log time but not PIC time, unless you are the CFI/I.
Your point on required crew member is only true if the aircraft you are
operating is covered by 61.55 and this covers how the aircraft is
certificated not the operation you're performing..I really don't think
to many part 91 aircraft have a second in command (required crew member
per operation certificate) requirement...
I don't think it says anywhere that the person acting as safety pilot
needs to be current or have a current medical for that matter either
just that they have to be rated for category and class.
If you and your mates are logging PIC time incorrectly, well that's your
matter. But you may want to re-read the regulation and discuss it with
a member from the FSDO or a master CFI/I...IMHO
Patrick
________________________________
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape
<http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489>
in the new year.
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Heated Pitot |
Yes, thanks for the great story. I didn't want to start the rant on
light IFR but said perfectly below per my experience.
It occurs to me that the pitot icing might have been fortunate in CJ's
case - good warning of airframe icing. I've only actually been aware of
pitot icing once and the airframe was icing at the same rate (whew!!!).
I'm thinking that anytime the pitot is subject to icing, the airframe is
doing the same but I don't know if that's actually the case.
Bill "piling on" Watson
John Jessen wrote:
>
> CJ: good story to share, and good logic that a heated pitot is a cheap
> insurance (life) investment. If you plan to have an IFR panel, do it right.
> Backup instrumentation, navs, comms, batteries for critical flight
> instruments, electrical generation... Don't screw around with IFR. Don't
> ever consider IFR as light vs something else. Consider it IFR, period. End
> of rant.
>
> John Jessen
> 40328
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnston
> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 12:47 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Heated Pitot
>
> --> <CJohnston@popsound.com>
>
> Just a point of interest that I'd add here.
>
> ***alert - dark and stormy night story below! If you're bored by dumb newbie
> flying stories, it would suffice to say that I'm pro pitot heat for an
> aircraft that is meant to fly cross country, or any IFR flights.
>
>
> Last year I was working on my instrument rating, and it just happened to be
> the rainiest couple months that SoCal had on record, which was just perfect
> for getting actual IMC time. During one of my more stressful flights, we
> were puttering around the Los Angeles area, doing approaches into a bunch of
> different airports. It was bumpy, it was night, and it was a handful. One
> of those flights that you just have to keep battling with your inner ear,
> because if you didn't have a good scan going, you'd believe that the
> airplane was doing backflips. The freezing level dropped a bit, and we
> started picking up rime ice. We started to head back to SMO, and with all
> that was going on, I forgot to turn on the pitot heat. It really should
> have been on from takeoff. Anyway, I was already seeing that we weren't
> getting the speed that we should have at a known power setting. It was just
> a couple knots slow, but since we were in the clouds, we knew it wouldn't be
> long before a bit slow turned into real slow. Now I'm staring at the ASI
> and comparing it to the ALT, the VSI, and the AI, keeping my scan going, and
> the ASI slows, slows, slows, and goes to zero. During the time that it was
> slowing, my brain had to work overtime comparing instruments to sort out
> what was happening. I had figured it out before it got to zero and flipped
> on the pitot heat. The instructor and I just sat there, waiting for it to
> come back alive. Which it did after what seemed like an eternity. All that
> partial panel stuff really works, but at the time I was very much in
> practice. Ultimately, we advised ATC of our situation, got lower (after
> what seemed like forever waiting for a Lear or Citation to get down ahead of
> us) and landed home safe. I obviously learned quite a bit from this
> experience, and it remains the absolute scariest experience that I've had in
> an airplane. I'd caution against the notion of light IFR, and I would never
> contemplate flying IFR without pitot heat. You definitely never mean to
> pick up ice, and the above was my only (to
> date) experience with it. knowing a bit more today than I did when this
> happened, I realize now that my personal minimums are quite a bit higher
> than my instructors were. I dunno. I guess that's a really long way of
> saying that I think pitot heat is cheap and worthwhile insurance.
>
> Just my experience, and just to be clear, I'm probably the lowest PIC time
> instrument rated pilot you'll find. I gots lots to learn.
>
>
> Cj
> #40410
> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 6:50 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Heated Pitot
>
>
> No regulatory requirement for heated pitot. Depends on typical icing where
> you typically fly. I flew years with unheated pitot where I got rime icing.
> Never blocked pitot. I would expect it would be more essential where clear
> ice is more common. If you stay out of icing (good plan) heated pitot isn't
> needed at all, just depends on whether you feel the need for that extra
> insurance.
>
> On Jan 22, 2008 12:32 AM, AirMike <Mikeabel@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> I am a high time VFR pilot. I am trying to get my plane set up for
>>
> lite IFR.
>
>> In other words - installing one Garmin SL30 with GS & Audio w/MB lites
>> I have been advised by others in EAA and prior posts on this site that
>>
> having a heated Pitot is a must.
>
>> Is Gretz GA1000 the best choice. I am already on board with the
>>
> Advanced Flight systems AF-3500 system with AOA
>
>> --------
>> OSH '08 or Bust
>> Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159714#159714
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 35
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In a message dated 1/22/2008 2:17:46 PM Central Standard Time,
rene@felker.com writes:
>
>
> 3. Both pilots can log time.
>
Yes, this would appear to be true, and both may be able to log PIC
time if it is agreed beforehand that the safety pilot will act as the
legal PIC during the time that the pilot manipulating the controls is
under the hood.
This web page has a pretty good read of the subject:
<http://www.pilotjourney.com/Aviation_Training/Instrument_Pilot/PIC:_Who_Is_It?_Who_Can_Log_It?/>
http://www.pilotjourney.com/Aviation_Training/Instrument_Pilot/PIC:_Who_Is_It?_Who_Can_Log_It?/
There are a few others as well:
<http://www.southern-aviator.com/editorial/articledetail.lasso?-token.key=9910&-token.src=column&-nothing>
<http://www.rodmachado.com/Articles/Logging_Flight_Time.htm>
FAA FAQ excerpt here:
<http://www.rodmachado.com/Articles/Logging_Flight_Time2.htm>
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Heated Pitot |
looks like many reasons to use it have responded on the item of it being a
must - or not..
Here is my thoughts on the best choice currently out there.
Falcon- same price as Gretz
PH-502- $800 plus
Gretz offers a heated system that turns on and off as needed
(automatically), the others are full on or off-determined by pilot choosing
to have it on or off.
Me, I will chose the Gretz for these features and feedback that they work as
advertised.
If there is someone (Tim?) that has comments on the Gretz performance,
please advise.
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel@Pacbell.net>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 11:32 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Heated Pitot
>
> I am a high time VFR pilot. I am trying to get my plane set up for lite
> IFR.
> In other words - installing one Garmin SL30 with GS & Audio w/MB lites
> I have been advised by others in EAA and prior posts on this site that
> having a heated Pitot is a must.
>
> Is Gretz GA1000 the best choice. I am already on board with the Advanced
> Flight systems AF-3500 system with AOA
>
> --------
> OSH '08 or Bust
> Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159714#159714
>
>
>
Message 37
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Not entirely.
To fly safety you must have at least recreational or private license,
minimum, rated in category and class..e.g. single engine land. No
endorsements needed...to log SIC. But, does require current medical.
To "act" as PIC you do need to be endorsed for the type of
aircraft...HP, tailwheel, etc.
You are right that safety pilot can act as PIC and log as PIC.
Handling pilot can log PIC as long as they have private license, no
need to be endorsed or current in the plane IF safety is actual PIC.
On Jan 22, 2008 1:11 PM, Rene Felker <rene@felker.com> wrote:
>
> Just for clarification......
>
> 1. Pilot not flying, right seat guy/gal must be rated and current in the
> aircraft to fly as safety pilot.
>
> 2. Pilot not flying, assumes PIC for a portion (while pilot flying is under
> the hood) of the flight.
>
> 3. Both pilots can log time.
>
> It is just a way to build a little time at little or no expense.
>
> Also, pilot not flying is a required crew member ...........
>
> I fly a lot with other pilots and always make sure that we agree on who is
> PIC and who is not.....even with my instructor.
>
> Rene' Felker
> N423CF
> 40322
> 801-721-6080
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 12:36 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insurance
>
>
> You can't really use that to actually build time, because
> you aren't PIC. Now, if you were the sole manipulator
> of the controls, while the other guy was the PIC, that
> might not be totally the case, but, what good is the
> instrument approach practice to that guy if you're
> the one solely manipulating the controls of the plane.
> And, you can't log PIC time if you're a non-certified
> pilot hauling passengers who are non-instructors.
> Otherwise people wouldn't bother to fly the time to
> get their rating...they'd just manipulate the controls
> while a buddy pilot acts as the true PIC. I'm not
> saying it's not of any benefit, but really, the only way
> to honestly and legitimately build loggable time is to
> go out and do the flying. Also, read this last month's
> AOPA article by that legal column guy and find out how
> the NTSB/FAA takes it when the right-seat pilot is
> manipulating the controls. It got kind of spooky how
> suddenly you assume the role as PIC and could end up
> being "in charge" if there is any sort of incident.
>
> What you want to add, if possible, is true, loggable PIC
> time, to help with insurance rates. But, you're 100% right
> that from a standpoint of getting yourself some IFR related
> education, it would be fantastic to go along and fly with
> someone doing their instrument rating....it may help when
> it comes time to plan your panel. If you're going to do
> that though, you may as well finish the Private Pilot, and
> at least finish and pass the written for the Instrument
> rating. You don't even need to take ground school to
> take and pass the written, and there's a heck of a lot
> of good info there.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Rene Felker wrote:
> >
> > Just an idea to throw out.....bring on the flames. One way of building
> time
> > would be to find someone working on their instrument rating or just doing
> > practice approaches and fly with them. You must be able to act as pilot
> in
> > command for the aircraft being flown, but you can log the PIC time. Also,
> > you will get the benefit of learning a lot about practice approaches,
> holds,
> > etc.....actual IFR...not so much.
> >
> > Rene' Felker
> > N423CF
> > 40322
> > 801-721-6080
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 10:41 AM
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insurance
> >
> >
> > Yes, you should be able to get the HP signoff from Alex or
> > Mike, if you don't get it before then. The most important
> > thing is the signoff, but all of your HP time, and other
> > "special" sorts of time you have, may also qualify you for
> > better insurance rates too, so if you're renting, and can
> > rent a HP plane, you may actually benefit from that rental
> > choice too. Just don't forget to get the signoff, one way
> > or the other, because you'll definitely want HP endorsement
> > for the RV-10...unless you do something drastically different
> > in engine choices. Anyone want to try out that Rotax
> > that got advertized a couple days ago? ;)
> >
> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> > Pascal wrote:
> >>
> >> Oh, and some time in that process, make sure to get a HP signoff.
> >>
> >>
> >> wouldn't getting the transition training with Alex or Mike get one this
> >> signoff? I would think it would be wise for most to get the training as
> >> a good step to that first flight.
> >> Pascal
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> >> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 6:41 AM
> >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insurance
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Not sure how much time you have until your RV-10 flies,
> >>> but you'll do well to get over the 100 hour point, and
> >>> the best thing you can do for yourself is to get your
> >>> instrument rating right away. It will keep your skills up
> >>> from the private pilot, and it will move them right into the
> >>> next level and give you some great knowledge. It will also
> >>> build hours very quickly, and force you to get over that
> >>> 100 hour mark. If you have an instrument rating, they
> >>> may have lower hours requirements for insurance. If you
> >>> by some stroke of luck could get 200 hours and the instrument
> >>> rating, you'd be sitting very good. Oh, and some time in
> >>> that process, make sure to get a HP signoff.
> >>>
> >>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> >>> do not archive
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> partner14 wrote:
>
> >>>> <building_partner@yahoo.com>
> >>>>
> >>>> I am finishing up my both my RV10 and my pilot license. I am
> >>>> planning on transition training, but I know because I'm a new pilot
> >>>> I'll probably take a beating from the insurance people. Any
> >>>> recommendations?
> >>>>
> >>>> -------- Don A. McDonald 40636
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Read this topic online here:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159680#159680
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 38
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Confusion Alert!
FAA General Counsel has ruled. There are no regional or local FSDO
interpretations on safety pilot issues.
Safety pilot IS a required crew member by regulation...has nothing to
do with aircraft type.
As a required crew member, a current medical IS required. (believe me,
this chaps my arse, as my wife is rated, but doesn't have medical).
Warbirds, experimental issues...different can of worms. As you
say...no dual permitted during phase one, no safety pilot allowed.
That is certification requirement, separate from IFR practice with
safety pilot.
On Jan 22, 2008 3:12 PM, John W. Cox <johnwcox@pacificnw.com> wrote:
>
>
> Patrick, great catch.
>
>
> As a retired Pilot Examiner, it is true that the currency of a medical is
> not a requirement for Right Seat. Second in Command also has nothing to do
> with "Required Crew" which by nature is a tattoo placed in the Aircraft
> Limitations and does not get removed without a lot of re-submittal of
> paperwork with your FSDO. Warbirds have extinguished that issue in the
> effort to take Fat Cats up for joyrides during waivered airspace in
> conjunction with airshows. Required Crew is forever. Restricted to Solo
> flight is time specific.
>
>
> When the Phase One says "Restricted to Solo flight" good luck with your
> armchair attorney trying to persuade the casualty insurance carrier that
> your "Good Buddy" was operating as "Required Crew" while you said "Hold my
> Beer and Watch This" as you log off your Phase One. Pen and Ink Logbook
> entries will always be with us. Great Examiners and Instructors can find
> those patterns quickly. It has something to do with the certification
> statement they sign that they have personally reviewed such entries.
>
>
> These interpretations have come down from Washington Legal and are not open
> to individual FSDO Inspector interpretation. Attorneys are strange about
> such stuff.
>
>
> Stay Safe, take along a current Gold Seal CFI or II (who knows your make and
> model of aircraft) and both of you get to log it.
>
>
> John
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRANSCOTT@aol.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 1:34 PM
>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insurance
>
>
> In a message dated 1/22/2008 2:17:46 PM Central Standard Time,
> rene@felker.com writes:
>
>
> Just for clarification......
>
> 1. Pilot not flying, right seat guy/gal must be rated and current in the
> aircraft to fly as safety pilot.
>
> 2. Pilot not flying, assumes PIC for a portion (while pilot flying is
> under
> the hood) of the flight.
>
> 3. Both pilots can log time.
>
> It is just a way to build a little time at little or no expense.
>
> Also, pilot not flying is a required crew member ...........
>
> I fly a lot with other pilots and always make sure that we agree on who is
> PIC and who is not.....even with my instructor.
>
>
> Rene',
>
>
> You may want to take a look at FAR 61.51...PIC is the pilot flying the plane
> (the sole manipulator of the controls) while the other person is a "safety
> pilot" and not PIC unless 61.51(e) (3)..."an authorized insturctor may log
> as PIC time all flight time while acting as an authorized instructor"..."PIC
> time for a pilot is only when you are the sole manipulator of the controls
> for which the pilot is rated or has priveleges"...if you act as Safety Pilot
> and you are not manipulator of the controls you're not PIC...the pilot
> flying under the "hood" is PIC, you can log time but not PIC time, unless
> you are the CFI/I.
>
>
> Your point on required crew member is only true if the aircraft you are
> operating is covered by 61.55 and this covers how the aircraft is
> certificated not the operation you're performing..I really don't think to
> many part 91 aircraft have a second in command (required crew member per
> operation certificate) requirement...
>
>
> I don't think it says anywhere that the person acting as safety pilot needs
> to be current or have a current medical for that matter either just that
> they have to be rated for category and class.
>
>
> If you and your mates are logging PIC time incorrectly, well that's your
> matter. But you may want to re-read the regulation and discuss it with a
> member from the FSDO or a master CFI/I...IMHO
>
>
> Patrick
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | HID Landing & Taxi Lights |
Guys,
Remember I was investigating HID landing and taxi lights. I found
some at www.dirtlights.com. They are "2 X 4" ovals and they work
great in my intakes. Believe it or not, I have good CHTs with them
in there.
The owner of the business is a pilot and has been selling these into
the RV market for years. They come in 12V. and 24V. and all shapes
and sizes.
The good thing is they're bright, cool, well sealed and you can put
them in the wingroot, under the spinner, in the wings, or wherever.
I got one spot light for landing, and one flood light for taxi.
I'll send installed photos next week.
Tom Lawson
N-905ET (250 hours and loving it)
N-149ES (Still building)
970-420-1798
Message 40
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To keep the waters muddy....here's that spooky article about what
can happen when you are in a plane with another pilot. Funny how
responsibilities can change in a hurry. Makes you think.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
---------------
Pilot Counsel: A shifting concept
By John S. Yodice
We as pilots are bound by the laws governing our flying, not only the
laws in the federal aviation regulations that are most familiar to us,
but also the laws and interpretations declared in the decisions of the
National Transportation Safety Board. Unfortunately for us, the laws
declared by NTSB in the context of FAA enforcement cases are frequently
skewed to get the pilot. As I have observed in past columns, hard
cases make bad law. The boards efforts to punish errant pilots
sometimes result in laws and interpretations that dont make sense, at
least not to us as pilots.
Last month in this column I reported such an NTSB case (see Pilot
Counsel: Airworthy ConditionAgain, December 2007 Pilot). The case
declared that insignificant damage (a bent small piece of sheet metal, a
light shield, on the wingtip of a Cessna 182 that the pilot straightened
out with his fingers) makes the aircraft unairworthy, and declared
that pilots who fly aircraft with such conditions are in violation of
the FARs. So, unfortunately for us, if we fly an aircraft with minor
damage that we conscientiously believe is insignificant and nevertheless
safe, we stand in danger of second-guessing by the FAA and NTSB.
This month I am reporting a case dealing with a common situation I
addressed more than a decade ago. Flying with more than one qualified
pilot on board a dual-control aircraft is a situation that occurs
frequently in our everyday flying. Most times it is fairly obvious who
is pilot in command. But many times it is not, and typically no one
worries about ituntil there is an accident or an incident. (See Pilot
Counsel: Pilot in Command? November 1995 Pilot.)
In this months case, the board may have succeeded in punishing what is
arguably an errant pilot, but in the process of deciding the case, the
board inadvertently gummed-up for us the shifting status of pilot in
command. The board declared that a right-seat pilot, who was clearly not
the pilot in command at the start of a flight, who accompanies the PIC,
and who temporarily operates the controls of an aircraft, in this case
to demonstrate a landing, then becomes the pilot in command. The
decision doesnt stop there. It goes on to declare that even in a more
compelling circumstancea right-seat pilot who is forced to take over
control when the PIC panics and lets go of the controlsthen becomes PIC
with responsibility for the predicament the aircraft is in. This is
certainly not the common understanding among pilots. Pilots believe that
temporarily manipulating the controls does not necessarily make a person
pilot in command. Just think of the situation of a flight instructor who
is not acting as pilot in command but is demonstrating a maneuver to the
PIC, or, more telling, an FAA inspector or designated flight examiner
who by regulation is not the pilot in command, who temporarily
manipulates the controls to demonstrate a maneuver or puts the aircraft
in an unusual attitude for the pilot to recover. As declared by the
NTSB, the PIC status can shift without any conscious decision of either
pilot on board, but merely by the manipulation of the flight controls.
Here are the hard facts. The respondent met a woman visiting from Spain
at the Tamiami Airport, near Miami, Florida. The woman held a Spanish
commercial pilot certificate but had only 170 flight hours. She had come
to the United States for three months to build flight time. The
respondent was an experienced airline transport pilot and a former
flight instructor with more than 5,000 hours. The woman rented a Cessna
172 at a Tamiami FBO where she had been renting airplanes for the last
month or so. She asked the respondent to fly with her in order to obtain
instruction in landing the aircraft. She rented the aircraft in her own
name and did not list the respondent as an occupant, either as a
passenger or a pilot. She preflighted the airplane, called the tower for
permission to take off, and, occupying the left seat, flew the aircraft
throughout the flight until the incident.
She intended to fly to Homestead General Aviation Airport to practice
touch-and-goes. Before taking off, she programmed the Garmin GNS 430 GPS
for what she thought was Homestead General Aviation Airport. Instead she
mistakenly programmed the GPS for Homestead Air Reserve Base. The flight
arrived after sunset at what the pilot thought was Homestead General.
The airports are only seven miles apart. She performed a touch-and-go.
The respondent pilot only then took over the controls, telling her that
he was going to teach her how to land the aircraft. While preparing to
execute a second touch-and-go, the aircraft was intercepted by a U.S.
Customs Blackhawk helicopter. Customs directed the flight to land.
Obviously, she had flown the aircraft to the wrong airport, and in the
process into Class D airspace. As a result, the FAA ordered the
suspension of the respondents ATP for 180 days (later reduced to 90
days by the law judge). The FAA charged 1) that the respondent operated
the aircraft in the Class D airspace of Homestead Air Reserve Base
without establishing two-way radio communication with the control tower,
2) that he landed and took off without a clearance, 3) that before the
flight, he failed to familiarize himself with all available information
concerning the flight, and 4) that in general he was careless or
reckless. On appeal to the NTSB, even though the respondent testified
that he did not know that the aircraft was in Class D airspace when he
took the controls to demonstrate a landing, the board affirmed all of
the FAA charges.
The FAA, and eventually the board, believed that the respondent did
something wrong (probably influenced by respondents after-the-fact
claims of an emergency and an electrical problem), but seemed to be
having difficulty framing the wrong in terms of a regulatory violation.
Making the respondent a pilot in command finessed that difficulty.
In resolving the issue of which pilot was the PIC during the flight, the
law judge found that the Spanish woman started the flight as PIC, but
that when the respondent took over the controls, he became PIC. As PIC,
it was his duty to know where the aircraft was and to comply with all
requirements applicable under the FARs to the conduct of the flight.
The full board, echoing the judge, specifically held that the
respondent was the PIC after he accepted responsibility and control of
the flight[and] when he assumed the status of PIC, it was the
respondents duty to know where the aircraft was located, and to comply
with all requirements applicable to the conduct of the flight.
There was a dispute about the circumstances of the respondents
assumption of the controls. That made the NTSB decision even more
difficult for usunnecessarily! According to the respondent, after being
intercepted by the helicopter, the airplane was shaking and pitching,
he saw panic in the [pilots] eyes, and that she started screaming about
her U.S. visa and that they were going to throw her in jail. The
respondent said that she lost spatial orientation and just let go of
the controls. As a result, the respondent grabbed the controls. The
board said that even if it believed the respondent, its conclusion
would remain the same. In other words, even under the compelling
circumstances described by the respondent, if true, the respondent
nevertheless assumed the status of PIC, with all of its incumbent
duties and responsibilities. Tough stuff.
So, pilots are on notice that if they are on board a dual-control
aircraft with another pilot who is acting as pilot in command, and for a
legitimate reason they manipulate the controls, even under compelling
circumstances, such pilots are in jeopardy of being considered as pilots
in command for purposes of finding regulatory violations. Another
illustration of how hard cases make bad law.
John S. Yodice is the owner of a Cessna 310 and serves as legal
counselor to AOPA.
Message 41
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Tim is absolutely correct here.
Fly with somebody doing instrument work and watch and listen....you'll learn
a lot.
However, don't log one tenth of an hour unless you are actually flying the
airplane AND you are doing it solely by reference to the instruments.
Anything else will build you a false level of confidence and can be
disastrous.....
grumpy
do not archive
In a message dated 1/22/2008 1:43:01 P.M. Central Standard Time,
Tim@MyRV10.com writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
You can't really use that to actually build time, because
you aren't PIC. Now, if you were the sole manipulator
of the controls, while the other guy was the PIC, that
might not be totally the case, but, what good is the
instrument approach practice to that guy if you're
the one solely manipulating the controls of the plane.
And, you can't log PIC time if you're a non-certified
pilot hauling passengers who are non-instructors.
Otherwise people wouldn't bother to fly the time to
get their rating...they'd just manipulate the controls
while a buddy pilot acts as the true PIC. I'm not
saying it's not of any benefit, but really, the only way
to honestly and legitimately build loggable time is to
go out and do the flying. Also, read this last month's
AOPA article by that legal column guy and find out how
the NTSB/FAA takes it when the right-seat pilot is
manipulating the controls. It got kind of spooky how
suddenly you assume the role as PIC and could end up
being "in charge" if there is any sort of incident.
What you want to add, if possible, is true, loggable PIC
time, to help with insurance rates. But, you're 100% right
that from a standpoint of getting yourself some IFR related
education, it would be fantastic to go along and fly with
someone doing their instrument rating....it may help when
it comes time to plan your panel. If you're going to do
that though, you may as well finish the Private Pilot, and
at least finish and pass the written for the Instrument
rating. You don't even need to take ground school to
take and pass the written, and there's a heck of a lot
of good info there.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Rene Felker wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Rene Felker" <rene@felker.com>
>
> Just an idea to throw out.....bring on the flames. One way of building
time
> would be to find someone working on their instrument rating or just doing
> practice approaches and fly with them. You must be able to act as pilot in
> command for the aircraft being flown, but you can log the PIC time. Also,
> you will get the benefit of learning a lot about practice approaches,
holds,
> etc.....actual IFR...not so much.
>
> Rene' Felker
> N423CF
> 40322
> 801-721-6080
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 10:41 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insurance
>
>
> Yes, you should be able to get the HP signoff from Alex or
> Mike, if you don't get it before then. The most important
> thing is the signoff, but all of your HP time, and other
> "special" sorts of time you have, may also qualify you for
> better insurance rates too, so if you're renting, and can
> rent a HP plane, you may actually benefit from that rental
> choice too. Just don't forget to get the signoff, one way
> or the other, because you'll definitely want HP endorsement
> for the RV-10...unless you do something drastically different
> in engine choices. Anyone want to try out that Rotax
> that got advertized a couple days ago? ;)
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Pascal wrote:
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Pascal" <rv10builder@verizon.net>
>>
>> Oh, and some time in that process, make sure to get a HP signoff.
>>
>>
>> wouldn't getting the transition training with Alex or Mike get one this
>> signoff? I would think it would be wise for most to get the training as
>> a good step to that first flight.
>> Pascal
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 6:41 AM
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insurance
>>
>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>>
>>> Not sure how much time you have until your RV-10 flies,
>>> but you'll do well to get over the 100 hour point, and
>>> the best thing you can do for yourself is to get your
>>> instrument rating right away. It will keep your skills up
>>> from the private pilot, and it will move them right into the
>>> next level and give you some great knowledge. It will also
>>> build hours very quickly, and force you to get over that
>>> 100 hour mark. If you have an instrument rating, they
>>> may have lower hours requirements for insurance. If you
>>> by some stroke of luck could get 200 hours and the instrument
>>> rating, you'd be sitting very good. Oh, and some time in
>>> that process, make sure to get a HP signoff.
>>>
>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>>> do not archive
>>>
>>>
>>> partner14 wrote:
>>>> <building_partner@yahoo.com>
>>>>
>>>> I am finishing up my both my RV10 and my pilot license. I am
>>>> planning on transition training, but I know because I'm a new pilot
>>>> I'll probably take a beating from the insurance people. Any
>>>> recommendations?
>>>>
>>>> -------- Don A. McDonald 40636
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159680#159680
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Heated Pitot |
Chris....did I ever tell you I was proud of you for getting your
instrument rating? It was nice that you saw the importance, and
did it. Now, I should let you in on the good news....with synthetic
vision, I've never once had the "leans", but always ended up getting
them pretty bad while IFR on steam gauges. You don't know how much
better off you'll be.
Pascal: RE the Gretz pitot comments.... I can't tell you that I've
been all iced up and those things saved my butt. If you turn them
on ahead of time, they should stay ice free and no news is good news.
All I can say is that they seem to work as advertised...you turn
them on, they cycle on and off, and they aren't a constant drain
on your electrical system. Plus, they're safe if you leave them
on while on the ground...they don't heat to a level that would burn
someone. So, all in all, it's tough to give a great review but they
haven't shown me any negatives yet. Since you can use a plain piece
of tubing as a pitot, my general feeling is other than the heating
concerns or methods, a pitot is a pitot.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Chris Johnston wrote:
>
> Just a point of interest that I'd add here.
>
> ***alert - dark and stormy night story below! If you're bored by dumb
> newbie flying stories, it would suffice to say that I'm pro pitot heat
> for an aircraft that is meant to fly cross country, or any IFR flights.
>
>
> Last year I was working on my instrument rating, and it just happened to
> be the rainiest couple months that SoCal had on record, which was just
> perfect for getting actual IMC time. During one of my more stressful
> flights, we were puttering around the Los Angeles area, doing approaches
> into a bunch of different airports. It was bumpy, it was night, and it
> was a handful. One of those flights that you just have to keep battling
> with your inner ear, because if you didn't have a good scan going, you'd
> believe that the airplane was doing backflips. The freezing level
> dropped a bit, and we started picking up rime ice. We started to head
> back to SMO, and with all that was going on, I forgot to turn on the
> pitot heat. It really should have been on from takeoff. Anyway, I was
> already seeing that we weren't getting the speed that we should have at
> a known power setting. It was just a couple knots slow, but since we
> were in the clouds, we knew it wouldn't be long before a bit slow turned
> into real slow. Now I'm staring at the ASI and comparing it to the ALT,
> the VSI, and the AI, keeping my scan going, and the ASI slows, slows,
> slows, and goes to zero. During the time that it was slowing, my brain
> had to work overtime comparing instruments to sort out what was
> happening. I had figured it out before it got to zero and flipped on
> the pitot heat. The instructor and I just sat there, waiting for it to
> come back alive. Which it did after what seemed like an eternity. All
> that partial panel stuff really works, but at the time I was very much
> in practice. Ultimately, we advised ATC of our situation, got lower
> (after what seemed like forever waiting for a Lear or Citation to get
> down ahead of us) and landed home safe. I obviously learned quite a bit
> from this experience, and it remains the absolute scariest experience
> that I've had in an airplane. I'd caution against the notion of light
> IFR, and I would never contemplate flying IFR without pitot heat. You
> definitely never mean to pick up ice, and the above was my only (to
> date) experience with it. knowing a bit more today than I did when this
> happened, I realize now that my personal minimums are quite a bit higher
> than my instructors were. I dunno. I guess that's a really long way of
> saying that I think pitot heat is cheap and worthwhile insurance.
>
> Just my experience, and just to be clear, I'm probably the lowest PIC
> time instrument rated pilot you'll find. I gots lots to learn.
>
>
> Cj
> #40410
> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
> McMullen
> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 6:50 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Heated Pitot
>
>
> No regulatory requirement for heated pitot. Depends on typical icing
> where you typically fly. I flew years with unheated pitot where I got
> rime icing. Never blocked pitot. I would expect it would be more
> essential where clear ice is more common. If you stay out of icing
> (good plan) heated pitot isn't needed at all, just depends on whether
> you feel the need for that extra insurance.
>
> On Jan 22, 2008 12:32 AM, AirMike <Mikeabel@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>
>> I am a high time VFR pilot. I am trying to get my plane set up for
> lite IFR.
>> In other words - installing one Garmin SL30 with GS & Audio w/MB lites
>> I have been advised by others in EAA and prior posts on this site that
> having a heated Pitot is a must.
>> Is Gretz GA1000 the best choice. I am already on board with the
> Advanced Flight systems AF-3500 system with AOA
>> --------
>> OSH '08 or Bust
>> Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159714#159714
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 43
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| Subject: | HID Landing & Taxi Lights |
on the same subject; I have been contacted by an HID vendor in the PHX
area
and we will be doing a direct replacement for the Vans lights on the 10;
possibly an HID light in the standard Vans cowl and an HID light as a
Glastar replacement light. will know moir=E9 in a couple of weeks.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
tom.on.the.road@juno.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 4:48 PM
Subject: RV10-List: HID Landing & Taxi Lights
Guys,
Remember I was investigating HID landing and taxi lights. I found
some at www.dirtlights.com. They are "2 X 4" ovals and they work
great in my intakes. Believe it or not, I have good CHTs with them
in there.
The owner of the business is a pilot and has been selling these into
the RV market for years. They come in 12V. and 24V. and all shapes
and sizes.
The good thing is they're bright, cool, well sealed and you can put
them in the wingroot, under the spinner, in the wings, or wherever.
I got one spot light for landing, and one flood light for taxi.
I'll send installed photos next week.
Tom Lawson
N-905ET (250 hours and loving it)
N-149ES (Still building)
970-420-1798
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: HID Landing & Taxi Lights |
Hey Tom,
I had trouble with your link -- goes to the host. If you leave the period off, it becomes http://www.dirtlights.com/ and that works for me.
In your intakes? Post the pics!
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
RV-10 finishing kit has arrived!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159899#159899
Message 45
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| Subject: | Slow (Standard) build fuse and wing kits for sale? |
Hey Guys,
Let me know if this inappropriate for this forum, but I thought I'd put out a feeler.
I'm having such a blast helping build my friend's RV-10 that I've decided to start
my own. I've found and purchased the tail/emp kit from a builder that decided
not to finish it and I'm getting my own builder's number transferred from
him. I drove 4 hrs. one way Sun. before X-mas to get it ... my wife is convinced
I've totally lost it!
I'm on a much more limited budget than my fellow builder and have lot's of patience,
so I'm wondering if there are builders out there that started a SB wing
or fuse kit, and would want to sell it to me so that they can get the QB kit.
I'm in Greenville,SC and I can pick it up within the 4 hr. driving time radius
-- maybe a little more if the price is right!
I'll either end up with a new passion and learn to fly it -- or one heck of a yard
ornament!
Later - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
RV-10 finishing kit has arrived!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159902#159902
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Slow (Standard) build fuse and wing kits for sale? |
Lew,
Not sure if someone can help you find more of the kit.
The RV 10 is a wonderful airplane, however you get to first flight......
Take your time, do it your way, and have an expert look over your work.
You'll love the end product.
If you haven't flown in one, you need to.
Mine should be back in the air from the painter in a month or so.
If you happen to be a CLEMSON TIGER, you might even entice me to come over
and take you for a ride to show you what a great airplane it is........
grumpy
N184JM class of 68 and waiting on Leonardo de Loehle to finish the next
masterpiece....
do not archive
In a message dated 1/22/2008 9:13:41 P.M. Central Standard Time,
lewgall@charter.net writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall@charter.net>
Hey Guys,
Let me know if this inappropriate for this forum, but I thought I'd put out
a feeler.
I'm having such a blast helping build my friend's RV-10 that I've decided to
start my own. I've found and purchased the tail/emp kit from a builder that
decided not to finish it and I'm getting my own builder's number transferred
from him. I drove 4 hrs. one way Sun. before X-mas to get it ... my wife
is convinced I've totally lost it!
I'm on a much more limited budget than my fellow builder and have lot's of
patience, so I'm wondering if there are builders out there that started a SB
wing or fuse kit, and would want to sell it to me so that they can get the QB
kit. I'm in Greenville,SC and I can pick it up within the 4 hr. driving time
radius -- maybe a little more if the price is right!
I'll either end up with a new passion and learn to fly it -- or one heck of
a yard ornament!
Later - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
RV-10 finishing kit has arrived!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159902#159902
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 47
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|
| Subject: | HID Landing & Taxi Lights |
after an exhaustive search, i had to have to the mr16 bulb (the rv10
original) custom made for me in an HID. i have to buy them in lots and
they
are made in china. if you find an American source please let me know.
check http://www.iflyrv10.com/iflyrv10/HID_lighting.html for a pic.
steve
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 9:03 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: HID Landing & Taxi Lights
on the same subject; I have been contacted by an HID vendor in the PHX
area
and we will be doing a direct replacement for the Vans lights on the 10;
possibly an HID light in the standard Vans cowl and an HID light as a
Glastar replacement light. will know moir=E9 in a couple of weeks.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
tom.on.the.road@juno.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 4:48 PM
Subject: RV10-List: HID Landing & Taxi Lights
Guys,
Remember I was investigating HID landing and taxi lights. I found
some at www.dirtlights.com. They are "2 X 4" ovals and they work
great in my intakes. Believe it or not, I have good CHTs with them
in there.
The owner of the business is a pilot and has been selling these into
the RV market for years. They come in 12V. and 24V. and all shapes
and sizes.
The good thing is they're bright, cool, well sealed and you can put
them in the wingroot, under the spinner, in the wings, or wherever.
I got one spot light for landing, and one flood light for taxi.
I'll send installed photos next week.
Tom Lawson
N-905ET (250 hours and loving it)
N-149ES (Still building)
970-420-1798
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: Slow (Standard) build fuse and wing kits for sale? |
Next thing you know we will have these spray painted paw prints all over th
e forum=C2- :)
How did you Clemson Tigers ever find your way to the game before stencils a
nd spray paint!!
Rick S.
40185
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: GenGrumpy@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 7:17:38 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Slow (Standard) build fuse and wing kits for sale?
Lew,
Not sure if someone can help you find more of the kit.
The RV 10 is a wonderful airplane, however you get to first flight......
Take your time, do it your way, and have an expert look over your work.
You'll love the end product.
If you haven't flown in one, you need to.
Mine should be back in the air from the painter in a month or so.
If you happen to be a CLEMSON TIGER, you might even entice me to come over
and take you for a ride to show you what a great airplane it is........
grumpy
N184JM class of 68 and waiting on Leonardo de Loehle to finish the next mas
terpiece....
do not archive
In a message dated 1/22/2008 9:13:41 P.M. Central Standard Time, lewgall@ch
arter.net writes:
Hey Guys,
Let me know if this inappropriate for this forum, but I thought I'd put out
a feeler.
I'm having such a blast helping build my friend's RV-10 that I've decided t
o start my own.=C2- I've found and purchased the tail/emp kit from a buil
der that decided not to finish it and I'm getting my own builder's number t
ransferred from him.=C2- I drove 4 hrs. one way Sun. before X-mas to get
it ... my wife is convinced I've totally lost it!=C2-
I'm on a much more limited budget than my fellow builder and have lot's of
patience, so I'm wondering if there are builders out there that started a S
B wing or fuse kit, and would want to sell it to me so that they can get th
e QB kit.=C2- I'm in Greenville,SC and I can pick it up within the 4 hr.
driving time radius -- maybe a little more if the price is right!
I'll either end up with a new passion and learn to fly it -- or one heck of
a yard ornament!
Later - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
RV-10 finishing kit has arrived!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159902#159902
========
====
=======================
==
Message 49
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|
For what its worth, we tried to get enough interest in the self-insurance to
start an RV program but we did not get enough interest to continue investing
money into the program. We got only a fraction of those needed.
Bob K
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 6:54 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insurance
The correct endorsement is "high performance" unless you are building
the prototype RV-10RG. Complex refers to tucking wheels as well as
controllable prop and flaps.
On Jan 21, 2008 9:49 PM, Marcus Cooper <coop85@cableone.net> wrote:
>
> Don,
> I agree with getting a "complex" checkout in hopes that it will lower
> the rates, it's also not a bad idea anyway since the RV-10 has a lot going
> on inside potentially.
>
> I'd recommend really shopping around. I found significant differences
> between quotes (one was twice the rest). I went with AOPA who lined me up
> with Falcon Insurance as they had a 'good' price and minimal type
> experience. When I first started shopping around I was told I'd get
credit
> for my RV-6 time, but things changed by the time I was ready to fly.
>
> The only good news to offer is most companies will give you a pretty good
> break in the price after the first year, so fly a lot. You can always use
> it as an excuse for the high fuel bill that you are preparing for saving
on
> insurance!
>
> Marcus
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of partner14
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 9:33 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Insurance
>
>
> I am finishing up my both my RV10 and my pilot license. I am planning on
> transition training, but I know because I'm a new pilot I'll probably take
a
> beating from the insurance people. Any recommendations?
>
> --------
> Don A. McDonald
> 40636
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159680#159680
>
>
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