Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:17 AM - Re: Koolmat Installation (dmaib@mac.com)
2. 06:26 AM - Re: Re: Koolmat Installation (Kelly McMullen)
3. 07:37 AM - Re: Silpruf Window installation (Vernon Smith)
4. 07:48 AM - Re: Re: Koolmat Installation (linn Walters)
5. 07:59 AM - Aircraft placards (Wayne Edgerton)
6. 10:59 AM - Re: Re: Koolmat Installation (LES KEARNEY)
7. 01:40 PM - Re: Re: Koolmat Installation (Kelly McMullen)
8. 01:59 PM - Re: Shameless For-Profit Promotion of New RV-10 Products (gary)
9. 02:27 PM - Re: Re: Koolmat Installation (LES KEARNEY)
10. 03:29 PM - Safety-Trim Air Speed Switch Question (Bob-tcw)
11. 03:55 PM - Re: Re: Koolmat Installation (Kelly McMullen)
12. 04:00 PM - Re: Re: Koolmat Installation (Bob-tcw)
13. 04:21 PM - Re: Re: Koolmat Installation (William Curtis)
14. 04:31 PM - Foam - for spacer (n277dl)
15. 04:46 PM - Re: Re: Koolmat Installation (rv10builder)
16. 05:01 PM - Re: SilPruf Window Installation (Here goes...) (Patrick Pulis)
17. 05:21 PM - Re: Safety-Trim Air Speed Switch Question (FLAGSTONE)
18. 05:27 PM - Re: Re: Koolmat Installation (LES KEARNEY)
19. 05:51 PM - Re: Re: Koolmat Installation (Kelly McMullen)
20. 07:28 PM - Re: Re: Koolmat Installation (Kelly McMullen)
21. 07:39 PM - Re: Re: Re: Koolmat Installation ()
22. 07:41 PM - Re: Koolmat Installation (Lew Gallagher)
23. 07:49 PM - Re: Re: Koolmat Installation (Rick Sked)
24. 07:52 PM - Re: Safety-Trim Air Speed Switch Question (Bob-tcw)
25. 08:34 PM - Re: Re: Koolmat Installation (Rick Sked)
26. 08:34 PM - Re: Re: Koolmat Installation (McGANN, Ron)
27. 08:34 PM - Re: Re: Koolmat Installation (John Jessen)
28. 08:35 PM - Re: Safety-Trim Air Speed Switch Question (Rick Sked)
29. 08:35 PM - Re: Re: Koolmat Installation (Kelly McMullen)
30. 08:37 PM - Re: Re: Koolmat Installation (John W. Cox)
31. 08:45 PM - Re: Re: Koolmat Installation (Les Kearney)
32. 08:48 PM - Re: SilPruf Window Installation (Here goes...) (Les Kearney)
33. 08:49 PM - Re: Trim Controller (John Hurst)
34. 09:00 PM - Re: Re: Koolmat Installation (Les Kearney)
35. 09:11 PM - Re: Re: Koolmat Installation (Les Kearney)
36. 09:16 PM - Re: Re: Koolmat Installation (Kelly McMullen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Koolmat Installation |
Getting ready to install Koolmat on the firewall and am wondering what different
methods have been used to secure it. Some have used dabs of red RTV and others
seem to have used high temp glue of some sort. I would like to be able to look
behind the stuff at annual inspection time. Any thoughts or comments, especially
from those who are flying with Koolmat installed would be appreciated.
do not archive
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163980#163980
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Koolmat Installation |
Opinions differ, but I would install it on the cabin side of the
firewall, for the exact reason you mention...you can inspect the
firewall better at annual time without anything covering the engine
side. Nothing to absorb oil and gas.
On the inside, in some areas you may be able to friction fit it. Any
glue/RTV will make it difficult to remove.
On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 6:11 AM, dmaib@mac.com <dmaib@mac.com> wrote:
Any thoughts or comments, especially from those who are flying with
Koolmat installed would be appreciated.
>
> do not archive
>
> --------
> David Maib
> RV-10 #40559
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163980#163980
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Silpruf Window installation |
Dave,
Thanks for the additional explanation. I think installing the windows is on
e area there is a need for more information. The workmanship is highly visi
ble and it's not like you can drill the hole out and use an Oops rivet.
Thanks again,
Vern
do not archive
From: Dave@AirCraftersLLC.comTo: rv10-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: RV10-L
ist: Silpruf Window installationDate: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:30:53 -0800
Vern,
I installed the windshield per the plans, then overlaid a thin fiberglass l
ayup over the exposed bond at the joggle. The edge is painted gloss black
to match the other windows.
The windsheild could be installed with SilPruf but it would require quite a
bit of rework in order to create a joggle along the bottom edge. I wasn't
quite prepared to do that. Maybe next time. The results would be very si
milar to the other windows.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Vernon SmithSent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 1
1:53 AMTo: rv10-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: RV10-List: Silpruf Window in
stallation
Dave, I would also like to throw in my thank you for sharing. This discussi
on has been centered around using SilPruf on the side windows. Did you also
use it on the windscreen?Vern Smith (#324 lost some where between the fuse
lage and finishing)
_________________________________________________________________
Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail=AE-get yo
ur "fix".
http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Koolmat Installation |
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
>Opinions differ, but I would install it on the cabin side of the
>firewall, for the exact reason you mention...you can inspect the
>firewall better at annual time without anything covering the engine
>side. Nothing to absorb oil and gas.
> On the inside, in some areas you may be able to friction fit it. Any
>glue/RTV will make it difficult to remove.
>
Well, the problem with it inside the cabin is that it's almost
impossible to get to it to look at it anyway. I'll put mine on the
inside and secure it well so that it won't come loose. YMMV
Linn
>
>On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 6:11 AM, dmaib@mac.com <dmaib@mac.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
> Any thoughts or comments, especially from those who are flying with
>Koolmat installed would be appreciated.
>
>
>> do not archive
>>
>> --------
>> David Maib
>> RV-10 #40559
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163980#163980
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Aircraft placards |
Someone recently gave me the name of a company that engraves placards
etc. I needed a couple of items engraved for my center console. Anyway
these guys do a first class job at what I think is a reasonable cost and
they were very easy to work with and responsive. You might want take a
look at their site if you have any needs for this.
www.engravers.net
Wayne Edgerton
N602WT flying
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Koolmat Installation |
Kelly
As the Koolmat is fiberglass / silicone, I don't think oil and gas absorbtion will
be a problem.
In my opinion, placing the mat on the cabin side of the firewall will defeat the
purpose of the mat as there will be little protection from gases that could
come through firewall penetrations. On the engine side, the mat would perhaps
cover some of the cracks and holes that would otherwise allow the gases through.
I don't know how much risk there would be of AL rivets melting in the case of an
enine fire, but I have seen a video of the VAN AL vents melting under heat.
If this is a risk, the mat on the firewall side would provide protection.
I would ask the A&Ps on the lis to chime in on the issue of firewall inspections.
I do note that the Koolmat website shows th mats on the engine side of the
firewall. See:
http://www.koolmat.com/aircraft.shtml
Another product to consider is : CONTEGO from A/C Spruce. See:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/contego.php
Perhaps his could be used to protect the penetrations as well.
Cheers
Les Keaney
#40643
C-GCWZ (reserved)
----- Original Message -----
From: linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> <apilot2@gmail.com>>
> >Opinions differ, but I would install it on the cabin side of the
> >firewall, for the exact reason you mention...you can inspect the
> >firewall better at annual time without anything covering the engine
> >side. Nothing to absorb oil and gas.
> > On the inside, in some areas you may be able to friction fit
> it. Any
> >glue/RTV will make it difficult to remove.
> >
> Well, the problem with it inside the cabin is that it's almost
> impossible to get to it to look at it anyway. I'll put
> mine on the
> inside and secure it well so that it won't come loose. YMMV
> Linn
>
> >
> >On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 6:11 AM, dmaib@mac.com
> <dmaib@mac.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> > Any thoughts or comments, especially from those who are
> flying with
> >Koolmat installed would be appreciated.
> >
> >
> >> do not archive
> >>
> >> --------
> >> David Maib
> >> RV-10 #40559
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Read this topic online here:
> >>
> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163980#163980
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Koolmat Installation |
Les, just my opinion, and industry practice. You want to be able to
have a clear view of the firewall. They do get cracks or wrinkles from
hard landings, etc. You cannot see that from inside the cabin and you
can't inspect it if you have an insulating cover over it. Any material
that has a fabric or fiberglass mat will absorb oil, ultimately a fire
risk. I'd rather let air do the cooling of the firewall. The
insulation on the inside will do just as well at insulating. Any
sealing should be done at the seams and penetration holes, and no
insulation will improve that. Every certificated aircraft has the
insulation on the cabin side of the firewall. With the wiring and
cables that penetrate the insulation wherever you mount it, you are
not going to take it off unless you are doing an engine change. Far
too much labor. Materials used on the firewall assembly should be fire
resistant. I heartily agree with those that replace the AL vent boxes
with SS.
On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 11:37 AM, LES KEARNEY <Kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
> Kelly
>
> As the Koolmat is fiberglass / silicone, I don't think oil and gas
> absorbtion will be a problem.
>
> In my opinion, placing the mat on the cabin side of the firewall will
> defeat the purpose of the mat as there will be little protection from gases
> that could come through firewall penetrations. On the engine side, the mat
> would perhaps cover some of the cracks and holes that would otherwise allow
> the gases through.
>
> I don't know how much risk there would be of AL rivets melting in the case
> of an enine fire, but I have seen a video of the VAN AL vents melting under
> heat. If this is a risk, the mat on the firewall side would provide
> protection.
>
> I would ask the A&Ps on the lis to chime in on the issue of firewall
> inspections. I do note that the Koolmat website shows th mats on the engine
> side of the firewall. See:
>
> http://www.koolmat.com/aircraft.shtml
>
> Another product to consider is : CONTEGO from A/C Spruce. See:
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/contego.php
>
> Perhaps his could be used to protect the penetrations as well.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les Keaney
> #40643
> C-GCWZ (reserved)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
> Date: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:06 am
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
> > Kelly McMullen wrote:
> >
> > <apilot2@gmail.com>>
> > >Opinions differ, but I would install it on the cabin side of the
> > >firewall, for the exact reason you mention...you can inspect the
> > >firewall better at annual time without anything covering the engine
> > >side. Nothing to absorb oil and gas.
> > > On the inside, in some areas you may be able to friction fit
> > it. Any
> > >glue/RTV will make it difficult to remove.
> > >
> > Well, the problem with it inside the cabin is that it's almost
> > impossible to get to it to look at it anyway. I'll put
> > mine on the
> > inside and secure it well so that it won't come loose. YMMV
> > Linn
> >
> > >
> > >On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 6:11 AM, dmaib@mac.com
> > <dmaib@mac.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > > Any thoughts or comments, especially from those who are
> > flying with
> > >Koolmat installed would be appreciated.
> > >
> > >
> > >> do not archive
> > >>
> > >> --------
> > >> David Maib
> > >> RV-10 #40559
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Read this topic online here:
> > >>
> > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163980#163980
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Shameless For-Profit Promotion of New RV-10 Products |
I just got my trim controller from Stein and have a question that might be
helpful to all.
I got the air switch. It has a Pitot input and a Static input. Is there
any overwhelming reason to plumb the static port into the aircraft system?
Why not leave it open to the cabin pressure? Other than being off a few MPH
from time to time would it make any big difference?
Gary
40274
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:20 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Shameless For-Profit Promotion of New RV-10 Products
We've posted a few new products on our web site specifically for RV-10s:
http://www.aircraftersllc.com/products.htm
Please call or email with any questions!
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Koolmat Installation |
Hi Kelly
I understand the need for inspections but surely no RV10 pilot would ever admit
to a hard landing.
I think the difference in view is that I am thinking more in terms of fire protection
rather than insulation. As well, could not the firewall inspection for
creases etc be done from the cabin side? I would think that if a hard landing
(not that I would admit to it) was a concern, I would want to look at the interior
weldments that are visable only from the interior.
The Koolmat could also be installed so that it could be lifted for inspection of
the firewall.
As far as oil is concerned, given that I am in line for a Subaru, expect that oil
leaks will be just a not so found memory of life with m Lyc O-3060.
Cheers
Les
----- Original Message -----
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
> <apilot2@gmail.com>
> Les, just my opinion, and industry practice. You want to be able to
> have a clear view of the firewall. They do get cracks or
> wrinkles from
> hard landings, etc. You cannot see that from inside the cabin
> and you
> can't inspect it if you have an insulating cover over it. Any material
> that has a fabric or fiberglass mat will absorb oil, ultimately
> a fire
> risk. I'd rather let air do the cooling of the firewall. The
> insulation on the inside will do just as well at insulating. Any
> sealing should be done at the seams and penetration holes, and no
> insulation will improve that. Every certificated aircraft has the
> insulation on the cabin side of the firewall. With the wiring and
> cables that penetrate the insulation wherever you mount it, you are
> not going to take it off unless you are doing an engine change. Far
> too much labor. Materials used on the firewall assembly should
> be fire
> resistant. I heartily agree with those that replace the AL vent boxes
> with SS.
>
> On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 11:37 AM, LES KEARNEY
> <Kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
> > Kelly
> >
> > As the Koolmat is fiberglass / silicone, I don't think oil and gas
> > absorbtion will be a problem.
> >
> > In my opinion, placing the mat on the cabin side of the
> firewall will
> > defeat the purpose of the mat as there will be little
> protection from gases
> > that could come through firewall penetrations. On the engine
> side, the mat
> > would perhaps cover some of the cracks and holes that would
> otherwise allow
> > the gases through.
> >
> > I don't know how much risk there would be of AL rivets melting
> in the case
> > of an enine fire, but I have seen a video of the VAN AL vents
> melting under
> > heat. If this is a risk, the mat on the firewall side would provide
> > protection.
> >
> > I would ask the A&Ps on the lis to chime in on the issue of firewall
> > inspections. I do note that the Koolmat website shows th mats
> on the engine
> > side of the firewall. See:
> >
> > http://www.koolmat.com/aircraft.shtml
> >
> > Another product to consider is : CONTEGO from A/C Spruce. See:
> >
> > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/contego.php
> >
> > Perhaps his could be used to protect the penetrations as well.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Les Keaney
> > #40643
> > C-GCWZ (reserved)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
> > Date: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:06 am
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> >
> > > Kelly McMullen wrote:
> > >
> > > <apilot2@gmail.com>>
> > > >Opinions differ, but I would install it on the cabin side
> of the
> > > >firewall, for the exact reason you mention...you can
> inspect the
> > > >firewall better at annual time without anything covering
> the engine
> > > >side. Nothing to absorb oil and gas.
> > > > On the inside, in some areas you may be able to friction fit
> > > it. Any
> > > >glue/RTV will make it difficult to remove.
> > > >
> > > Well, the problem with it inside the cabin is that it's almost
> > > impossible to get to it to look at it anyway. I'll put
> > > mine on the
> > > inside and secure it well so that it won't come loose. YMMV
> > > Linn
> > >
> > > >
> > > >On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 6:11 AM, dmaib@mac.com
> > > <dmaib@mac.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> <dmaib@mac.com>> > >>
> > > >>
> > > > Any thoughts or comments, especially from those who are
> > > flying with
> > > >Koolmat installed would be appreciated.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> do not archive
> > > >>
> > > >> --------
> > > >> David Maib
> > > >> RV-10 #40559
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Read this topic online here:
> > > >>
> > > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163980#163980
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> RV10-List Email Forum -
> _-
> = - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> _-
> = - List Contribution Web Site -
> _-
> = -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Safety-Trim Air Speed Switch Question |
The answer is YES, plumbing to static line is important, especially if
you have your airplane tested for the pitot static test to fly IFR. The
test equipment can ruin any piece of equipment that is only connected to
one of the lines. The test draws a vacuum on both lines simulating a
rise in altitude. With both lines (pitot and static) connected to the
test rig the net differential pressure from pitot to static is near zero
and everything is fine. However, with only one line connected the
vacuum is drawn across any instrument connected to only one line.
There's a great chance of ruining the instrument connected to only one
line. I know first hand. I had to pay for the rebuild of my airspeed
indicator when the pitot line got disconnected during the test! Bang.
So please connect both lines to the Air Speed Switch!
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies.
www.tcwtech.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Koolmat Installation |
Have you ever stuck your head in the footwells of your Cherokee to see
how straight your firewall is?
Ever worked in a Subie engine compartment? So you can get antifreeze
and oil accumulations..eh?
On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 3:10 PM, LES KEARNEY <Kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
> Hi Kelly
>
> I understand the need for inspections but surely no RV10 pilot would ever
> admit to a hard landing.
>
> I think the difference in view is that I am thinking more in terms of fire
> protection rather than insulation. As well, could not the firewall
> inspection for creases etc be done from the cabin side? I would think that
> if a hard landing (not that I would admit to it) was a concern, I would want
> to look at the interior weldments that are visable only from the interior.
>
> The Koolmat could also be installed so that it could be lifted for
> inspection of the firewall.
>
> As far as oil is concerned, given that I am in line for a Subaru, expect
> that oil leaks will be just a not so found memory of life with m Lyc O-3060.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com>
> Date: Thursday, February 14, 2008 2:56 pm
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
> > <apilot2@gmail.com>
>
> > Les, just my opinion, and industry practice. You want to be able to
> > have a clear view of the firewall. They do get cracks or
> > wrinkles from
> > hard landings, etc. You cannot see that from inside the cabin
> > and you
> > can't inspect it if you have an insulating cover over it. Any material
> > that has a fabric or fiberglass mat will absorb oil, ultimately
> > a fire
> > risk. I'd rather let air do the cooling of the firewall. The
> > insulation on the inside will do just as well at insulating. Any
> > sealing should be done at the seams and penetration holes, and no
> > insulation will improve that. Every certificated aircraft has the
> > insulation on the cabin side of the firewall. With the wiring and
> > cables that penetrate the insulation wherever you mount it, you are
> > not going to take it off unless you are doing an engine change. Far
> > too much labor. Materials used on the firewall assembly should
> > be fire
> > resistant. I heartily agree with those that replace the AL vent boxes
> > with SS.
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 11:37 AM, LES KEARNEY
> > <Kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> > > Kelly
> > >
> > > As the Koolmat is fiberglass / silicone, I don't think oil and gas
> > > absorbtion will be a problem.
> > >
> > > In my opinion, placing the mat on the cabin side of the
> > firewall will
> > > defeat the purpose of the mat as there will be little
> > protection from gases
> > > that could come through firewall penetrations. On the engine
> > side, the mat
> > > would perhaps cover some of the cracks and holes that would
> > otherwise allow
> > > the gases through.
> > >
> > > I don't know how much risk there would be of AL rivets melting
> > in the case
> > > of an enine fire, but I have seen a video of the VAN AL vents
> > melting under
> > > heat. If this is a risk, the mat on the firewall side would provide
> > > protection.
> > >
> > > I would ask the A&Ps on the lis to chime in on the issue of firewall
> > > inspections. I do note that the Koolmat website shows th mats
> > on the engine
> > > side of the firewall. See:
> > >
> > > http://www.koolmat.com/aircraft.shtml
> > >
> > > Another product to consider is : CONTEGO from A/C Spruce. See:
> > >
> > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/contego.php
> > >
> > > Perhaps his could be used to protect the penetrations as well.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Les Keaney
> > > #40643
> > > C-GCWZ (reserved)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
> > > Date: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:06 am
> > > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
> > > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > >
> > > > Kelly McMullen wrote:
> > > >
> > > > <apilot2@gmail.com>>
> > > > >Opinions differ, but I would install it on the cabin side
> > of the
> > > > >firewall, for the exact reason you mention...you can
> > inspect the
> > > > >firewall better at annual time without anything covering
> > the engine
> > > > >side. Nothing to absorb oil and gas.
> > > > > On the inside, in some areas you may be able to friction fit
> > > > it. Any
> > > > >glue/RTV will make it difficult to remove.
> > > > >
> > > > Well, the problem with it inside the cabin is that it's almost
> > > > impossible to get to it to look at it anyway. I'll put
> > > > mine on the
> > > > inside and secure it well so that it won't come loose. YMMV
> > > > Linn
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 6:11 AM, dmaib@mac.com
> > > > <dmaib@mac.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > <dmaib@mac.com>> > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > > Any thoughts or comments, especially from those who are
> > > > flying with
> > > > >Koolmat installed would be appreciated.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> do not archive
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --------
> > > > >> David Maib
> > > > >> RV-10 #40559
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Read this topic online here:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163980#163980
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > RV10-List Email Forum -
> > _-
> > = - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> > _-
> > = - List Contribution Web Site -
> > _-
> > = -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Koolmat Installation |
I'm going to use Koolmat on my RV-10, I'm planning on putting it on
the firewall side for the following reasons.
1) The Silicon side of koolmat is quite impervious to oil and fluids.
2) Heat transfer is a function of three modes: Convection, Conduction
and Radiation. Limiting heat transfer into the passanger compartment
should best be accomplished by reducing each of these factors.
Insulation on either side of the firewall will be effective at reducing
conduction, (convection should not be an issue because there's no
airflow over the firewall per se) However, Only by insulating the
firewall side can we reduce the effects of radiation. The radiated
heat of the engine and exhaust system will land on the firewall and heat
the firewall. With insulation only on the cabin side, the firewall
effectively is heated and re-radiates into the cabin. The insulation
on the cabin side only slows the progress of heat flow into the cabin it
doesn't prevent it from occuring. With insulation on the firewall
side, the radiated energy cannot heat the firewall to begin with and
therefore should provide less cabin heating.
3) Accoustically it should be quieter. For the same reasons as in # 2
for heat, accoustically it should be quiter if the firewall is not
radiated with sound energy. Theoretically! will see in practice
hopefully the end of this year.
So those our my reasons for insulating the firewall side. note, I do
plan on corrosion proofing the rivets on the firewall side before
applying the koolmat.
FWIW
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies
www.tcwtech.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Koolmat Installation |
Kelly,
Based on your concerns below, I think the Koolmat may be a waste of money for you.
You may be better served by looking at a product designed specifically for
the cabin side of the firewall.
By placing the Koolmat on the cabin side of the firewall, you eliminate one of
the principal benefits of the Koolmat, that of reduction of radiant heating of
the firewall and everything that is attached to it. The fibers in the Koolmat
are impregnated and would be difficult to absorb moisture. Certainly being
able to inspect the firewall is valuable, however I think this could be done from
the cabin side.
I used red RTV and the engine mount to hold mine in place. The most challenging
part was neatly making all the cutouts for the various items passing through
the firewall.
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those
who matter don't mind."
-- Dr. Suess
-------- Original Message --------
>
>
> Les, just my opinion, and industry practice. You want to be able to
> have a clear view of the firewall. They do get cracks or wrinkles from
> hard landings, etc. You cannot see that from inside the cabin and you
> can't inspect it if you have an insulating cover over it. Any material
> that has a fabric or fiberglass mat will absorb oil, ultimately a fire
> risk. I'd rather let air do the cooling of the firewall. The
> insulation on the inside will do just as well at insulating. Any
> sealing should be done at the seams and penetration holes, and no
> insulation will improve that. Every certificated aircraft has the
> insulation on the cabin side of the firewall. With the wiring and
> cables that penetrate the insulation wherever you mount it, you are
> not going to take it off unless you are doing an engine change. Far
> too much labor. Materials used on the firewall assembly should be fire
> resistant. I heartily agree with those that replace the AL vent boxes
> with SS.
>
> On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 11:37 AM, LES KEARNEY <Kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
> > Kelly
> >
> > As the Koolmat is fiberglass / silicone, I don't think oil and gas
> > absorbtion will be a problem.
> >
> > In my opinion, placing the mat on the cabin side of the firewall will
> > defeat the purpose of the mat as there will be little protection from gases
> > that could come through firewall penetrations. On the engine side, the mat
> > would perhaps cover some of the cracks and holes that would otherwise allow
> > the gases through.
> >
> > I don't know how much risk there would be of AL rivets melting in the case
> > of an enine fire, but I have seen a video of the VAN AL vents melting under
> > heat. If this is a risk, the mat on the firewall side would provide
> > protection.
> >
> > I would ask the A&Ps on the lis to chime in on the issue of firewall
> > inspections. I do note that the Koolmat website shows th mats on the engine
> > side of the firewall. See:
> >
> > http://www.koolmat.com/aircraft.shtml
> >
> > Another product to consider is : CONTEGO from A/C Spruce. See:
> >
> > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/contego.php
> >
> > Perhaps his could be used to protect the penetrations as well.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Les Keaney
> > #40643
> > C-GCWZ (reserved)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
> > Date: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:06 am
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> >
> > > Kelly McMullen wrote:
> > >
> > > <apilot2@gmail.com>>
> > > >Opinions differ, but I would install it on the cabin side of the
> > > >firewall, for the exact reason you mention...you can inspect the
> > > >firewall better at annual time without anything covering the engine
> > > >side. Nothing to absorb oil and gas.
> > > > On the inside, in some areas you may be able to friction fit
> > > it. Any
> > > >glue/RTV will make it difficult to remove.
> > > >
> > > Well, the problem with it inside the cabin is that it's almost
> > > impossible to get to it to look at it anyway. I'll put
> > > mine on the
> > > inside and secure it well so that it won't come loose. YMMV
> > > Linn
> > >
> > > >
> > > >On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 6:11 AM, dmaib@mac.com
> > > <dmaib@mac.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > > Any thoughts or comments, especially from those who are
> > > flying with
> > > >Koolmat installed would be appreciated.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> do not archive
> > > >>
> > > >> --------
> > > >> David Maib
> > > >> RV-10 #40559
Message 14
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| Subject: | Foam - for spacer |
I see on William's and a couple other builders web sites that they used some foam
under the Archer nav antenna to keep it level. Sounds like a good idea but
no clue what type of foam I can use for this and other potential uses in the
future..... Will the white packing foam that came in the QB kit be used?
Thanks,
Doug
Do not archive
--------
Doug
"Fools" are always more creative than process people and will always
find ways to ruin a perfectly good set of processes.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164094#164094
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Koolmat Installation |
I installed mine per the manufacturers suggestions...
http://www.koolmat.com/aircraft.shtml
Brian Sutherland
40308
Wheelpants, Inspection, then Fly!!!
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> Les, just my opinion, and industry practice. You want to be able to
> have a clear view of the firewall. They do get cracks or wrinkles from
> hard landings, etc. You cannot see that from inside the cabin and you
> can't inspect it if you have an insulating cover over it. Any material
> that has a fabric or fiberglass mat will absorb oil, ultimately a fire
> risk. I'd rather let air do the cooling of the firewall. The
> insulation on the inside will do just as well at insulating. Any
> sealing should be done at the seams and penetration holes, and no
> insulation will improve that. Every certificated aircraft has the
> insulation on the cabin side of the firewall. With the wiring and
> cables that penetrate the insulation wherever you mount it, you are
> not going to take it off unless you are doing an engine change. Far
> too much labor. Materials used on the firewall assembly should be fire
> resistant. I heartily agree with those that replace the AL vent boxes
> with SS.
>
> On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 11:37 AM, LES KEARNEY <Kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>> Kelly
>>
>> As the Koolmat is fiberglass / silicone, I don't think oil and gas
>> absorbtion will be a problem.
>>
>> In my opinion, placing the mat on the cabin side of the firewall will
>> defeat the purpose of the mat as there will be little protection from gases
>> that could come through firewall penetrations. On the engine side, the mat
>> would perhaps cover some of the cracks and holes that would otherwise allow
>> the gases through.
>>
>> I don't know how much risk there would be of AL rivets melting in the case
>> of an enine fire, but I have seen a video of the VAN AL vents melting under
>> heat. If this is a risk, the mat on the firewall side would provide
>> protection.
>>
>> I would ask the A&Ps on the lis to chime in on the issue of firewall
>> inspections. I do note that the Koolmat website shows th mats on the engine
>> side of the firewall. See:
>>
>> http://www.koolmat.com/aircraft.shtml
>>
>> Another product to consider is : CONTEGO from A/C Spruce. See:
>>
>> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/contego.php
>>
>> Perhaps his could be used to protect the penetrations as well.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Les Keaney
>> #40643
>> C-GCWZ (reserved)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
>> Date: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:06 am
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>
>>
>>> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>> <apilot2@gmail.com>>
>>>
>>>> Opinions differ, but I would install it on the cabin side of the
>>>> firewall, for the exact reason you mention...you can inspect the
>>>> firewall better at annual time without anything covering the engine
>>>> side. Nothing to absorb oil and gas.
>>>> On the inside, in some areas you may be able to friction fit
>>>>
>>> it. Any
>>>
>>>> glue/RTV will make it difficult to remove.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Well, the problem with it inside the cabin is that it's almost
>>> impossible to get to it to look at it anyway. I'll put
>>> mine on the
>>> inside and secure it well so that it won't come loose. YMMV
>>> Linn
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 6:11 AM, dmaib@mac.com
>>>>
>>> <dmaib@mac.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Any thoughts or comments, especially from those who are
>>>>
>>> flying with
>>>
>>>> Koolmat installed would be appreciated.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> do not archive
>>>>>
>>>>> --------
>>>>> David Maib
>>>>> RV-10 #40559
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163980#163980
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> .
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | SilPruf Window Installation (Here goes...) |
Les, once you view the video, could you please post a overview of the
installation process and your thoughts please?
Regards
Patrick Pulis
#40299 VH-XPP
Adelaide, South Australia
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: Les Kearney [mailto:kearney@shaw.ca]
Sent: Thursday, 14 February 2008 1:46 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: SilPruf Window Installation (Here goes...)
Dave
Many thanks for such a detailed post. Where I live it can go from -40F
in winter to +90F in summer. Thermal expansion of joints around windows
etc is an issue that I have been concerned about.
On the strength of your recommendation, I have ordered the video and
hope to put it to good use.
Regards
Les Kearney
#40643
C-GCWZ (Reserved)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor
Sent: February-12-08 4:54 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: SilPruf Window Installation (Here goes...)
Nope. But I have seen it work very well in many other applications
besides this one. The numbers say it would take a catastrophe to break
the bond--thousands of pounds loading against the window--at which point
the strength of the bond becomes a moot point. So, no, I haven't
checked, but I still I trust the application.
Also, it's a bit of an apples/oranges comparison because the SilPruf
stretches so much further before breaking. That's what makes it nice
for preventing the hairline cracks.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Lewis
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: SilPruf Window Installation (Here goes...)
Dave,
Have you compared the holding power of SilPruf to that of WeldOn?
Thanks,
Tim
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 1000 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Safety-Trim Air Speed Switch Question |
Bob:
That's interesting and good to know. I was also planning on an airspeed
switch and was wondering the same thing as Gary. Couple questions??
Do you have to install special ports for the equipment to hook up to or
will it hook up to the pitot tube and static ports (two) as installed??
Does the system test an alternate static port operated from inside the
cabin as well?? Do you know why TruTrak would say its fine to just vent
the static port for their ADI to the cabin?? That instrument is usually
a backup for IFR so one would think that TruTrak would expect to have
the pitot/static systems tested.
Thanks
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob-tcw
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 2:49 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Safety-Trim Air Speed Switch Question
The answer is YES, plumbing to static line is important, especially if
you have your airplane tested for the pitot static test to fly IFR. The
test equipment can ruin any piece of equipment that is only connected to
one of the lines. The test draws a vacuum on both lines simulating a
rise in altitude. With both lines (pitot and static) connected to the
test rig the net differential pressure from pitot to static is near zero
and everything is fine. However, with only one line connected the
vacuum is drawn across any instrument connected to only one line.
There's a great chance of ruining the instrument connected to only one
line. I know first hand. I had to pay for the rebuild of my airspeed
indicator when the pitot line got disconnected during the test! Bang.
So please connect both lines to the Air Speed Switch!
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies.
www.tcwtech.com
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Koolmat Installation |
Kelly
Now you have outed me. The whole RV world now knows I am a closet Piper driver....
I have been under my Cherokee panel, its not that bad - not great but not bad.
But I do take your point.
Cheers
Les
----- Original Message -----
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
> <apilot2@gmail.com>
> Have you ever stuck your head in the footwells of your Cherokee
> to see
> how straight your firewall is?
> Ever worked in a Subie engine compartment? So you can get antifreeze
> and oil accumulations..eh?
>
> On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 3:10 PM, LES KEARNEY
> <Kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
> > Hi Kelly
> >
> > I understand the need for inspections but surely no RV10 pilot
> would ever
> > admit to a hard landing.
> >
> > I think the difference in view is that I am thinking more in
> terms of fire
> > protection rather than insulation. As well, could not the firewall
> > inspection for creases etc be done from the cabin side? I
> would think that
> > if a hard landing (not that I would admit to it) was a
> concern, I would want
> > to look at the interior weldments that are visable only from
> the interior.
> >
> > The Koolmat could also be installed so that it could be lifted for
> > inspection of the firewall.
> >
> > As far as oil is concerned, given that I am in line for a
> Subaru, expect
> > that oil leaks will be just a not so found memory of life with
> m Lyc O-3060.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Les
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com>
> > Date: Thursday, February 14, 2008 2:56 pm
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> >
> > > <apilot2@gmail.com>
> >
> > > Les, just my opinion, and industry practice. You want to be
> able to
> > > have a clear view of the firewall. They do get cracks or
> > > wrinkles from
> > > hard landings, etc. You cannot see that from inside the cabin
> > > and you
> > > can't inspect it if you have an insulating cover over it.
> Any material
> > > that has a fabric or fiberglass mat will absorb oil, ultimately
> > > a fire
> > > risk. I'd rather let air do the cooling of the firewall. The
> > > insulation on the inside will do just as well at insulating. Any
> > > sealing should be done at the seams and penetration holes,
> and no
> > > insulation will improve that. Every certificated aircraft
> has the
> > > insulation on the cabin side of the firewall. With the
> wiring and
> > > cables that penetrate the insulation wherever you mount it,
> you are
> > > not going to take it off unless you are doing an engine
> change. Far
> > > too much labor. Materials used on the firewall assembly should
> > > be fire
> > > resistant. I heartily agree with those that replace the AL
> vent boxes
> > > with SS.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 11:37 AM, LES KEARNEY
> > > <Kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
> >
> > > > Kelly
> > > >
> > > > As the Koolmat is fiberglass / silicone, I don't think oil
> and gas
> > > > absorbtion will be a problem.
> > > >
> > > > In my opinion, placing the mat on the cabin side of the
> > > firewall will
> > > > defeat the purpose of the mat as there will be little
> > > protection from gases
> > > > that could come through firewall penetrations. On the engine
> > > side, the mat
> > > > would perhaps cover some of the cracks and holes that would
> > > otherwise allow
> > > > the gases through.
> > > >
> > > > I don't know how much risk there would be of AL rivets melting
> > > in the case
> > > > of an enine fire, but I have seen a video of the VAN AL vents
> > > melting under
> > > > heat. If this is a risk, the mat on the firewall side
> would provide
> > > > protection.
> > > >
> > > > I would ask the A&Ps on the lis to chime in on the issue
> of firewall
> > > > inspections. I do note that the Koolmat website shows th mats
> > > on the engine
> > > > side of the firewall. See:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.koolmat.com/aircraft.shtml
> > > >
> > > > Another product to consider is : CONTEGO from A/C Spruce. See:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/contego.php
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps his could be used to protect the penetrations as well.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > >
> > > > Les Keaney
> > > > #40643
> > > > C-GCWZ (reserved)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
> > > > Date: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:06 am
> > > > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
> > > > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > > >
> > > > > Kelly McMullen wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > <apilot2@gmail.com>>
> > > > > >Opinions differ, but I would install it on the cabin side
> > > of the
> > > > > >firewall, for the exact reason you mention...you can
> > > inspect the
> > > > > >firewall better at annual time without anything covering
> > > the engine
> > > > > >side. Nothing to absorb oil and gas.
> > > > > > On the inside, in some areas you may be able to
> friction fit
> > > > > it. Any
> > > > > >glue/RTV will make it difficult to remove.
> > > > > >
> > > > > Well, the problem with it inside the cabin is that it's almost
> > > > > impossible to get to it to look at it anyway. I'll put
> > > > > mine on the
> > > > > inside and secure it well so that it won't come
> loose. YMMV
> > > > > Linn
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 6:11 AM, dmaib@mac.com
> > > > > <dmaib@mac.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > <dmaib@mac.com>> > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > > Any thoughts or comments, especially from those
> who are
> > > > > flying with
> > > > > >Koolmat installed would be appreciated.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> do not archive
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> --------
> > > > > >> David Maib
> > > > > >> RV-10 #40559
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Read this topic online here:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163980#163980
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > RV10-List Email Forum -
> > > _-
> > >
> = - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> > > _-
> > >
> = - List Contribution Web Site -
> > > _-
> > >
> = -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> RV10-List Email Forum -
> _-
> = - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> _-
> = - List Contribution Web Site -
> _-
> = -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Koolmat Installation |
I'm glad there is a difference in your mind. That is the only place
you will find any difference in R value or acoustic value.
If it is on the front side, you will NOT be able to properly inspect
the firewall.
On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 4:10 PM, Bob-tcw <rnewman@tcwtech.com> wrote:
>
>
> I'm going to use Koolmat on my RV-10, I'm planning on putting it on the
> firewall side for the following reasons.
>
> 1) The Silicon side of koolmat is quite impervious to oil and fluids.
> 2) Heat transfer is a function of three modes: Convection, Conduction and
> Radiation. Limiting heat transfer into the passanger compartment should
> best be accomplished by reducing each of these factors. Insulation on
> either side of the firewall will be effective at reducing conduction,
> (convection should not be an issue because there's no airflow over the
> firewall per se) However, Only by insulating the firewall side can we
> reduce the effects of radiation. The radiated heat of the engine and
> exhaust system will land on the firewall and heat the firewall. With
> insulation only on the cabin side, the firewall effectively is heated and
> re-radiates into the cabin. The insulation on the cabin side only slows
> the progress of heat flow into the cabin it doesn't prevent it from
> occuring. With insulation on the firewall side, the radiated energy cannot
> heat the firewall to begin with and therefore should provide less cabin
> heating.
> 3) Accoustically it should be quieter. For the same reasons as in # 2 for
> heat, accoustically it should be quiter if the firewall is not radiated
> with sound energy. Theoretically! will see in practice hopefully the
> end of this year.
>
>
> So those our my reasons for insulating the firewall side. note, I do plan
> on corrosion proofing the rivets on the firewall side before applying the
> koolmat.
>
> FWIW
>
>
> Bob Newman
> TCW Technologies
> www.tcwtech.com
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Koolmat Installation |
Sorry about that Les, I thought everyone knew about your steam powered
airplane. In fact some folks in your old neighborhood were asking if
the RV would also be steam powered.
Do not archive
On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 5:51 PM, LES KEARNEY <Kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
> Kelly
>
> Now you have outed me. The whole RV world now knows I am a closet Piper
> driver....
>
> I have been under my Cherokee panel, its not that bad - not great but not
> bad. But I do take your point.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com>
> Date: Thursday, February 14, 2008 5:11 pm
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
> > <apilot2@gmail.com>
> > Have you ever stuck your head in the footwells of your Cherokee
> > to see
> > how straight your firewall is?
> > Ever worked in a Subie engine compartment? So you can get antifreeze
> > and oil accumulations..eh?
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 3:10 PM, LES KEARNEY
> > <Kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
> > > Hi Kelly
> > >
> > > I understand the need for inspections but surely no RV10 pilot
> > would ever
> > > admit to a hard landing.
> > >
> > > I think the difference in view is that I am thinking more in
> > terms of fire
> > > protection rather than insulation. As well, could not the firewall
> > > inspection for creases etc be done from the cabin side? I
> > would think that
> > > if a hard landing (not that I would admit to it) was a
> > concern, I would want
> > > to look at the interior weldments that are visable only from
> > the interior.
> > >
> > > The Koolmat could also be installed so that it could be lifted for
> > > inspection of the firewall.
> > >
> > > As far as oil is concerned, given that I am in line for a
> > Subaru, expect
> > > that oil leaks will be just a not so found memory of life with
> > m Lyc O-3060.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Les
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
>
> > > From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com>
> > > Date: Thursday, February 14, 2008 2:56 pm
> > > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
> > > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > >
> > > > <apilot2@gmail.com>
> > >
> > > > Les, just my opinion, and industry practice. You want to be
> > able to
> > > > have a clear view of the firewall. They do get cracks or
> > > > wrinkles from
> > > > hard landings, etc. You cannot see that from inside the cabin
> > > > and you
> > > > can't inspect it if you have an insulating cover over it.
> > Any material
> > > > that has a fabric or fiberglass mat will absorb oil, ultimately
> > > > a fire
> > > > risk. I'd rather let air do the cooling of the firewall. The
> > > > insulation on the inside will do just as well at insulating. Any
> > > > sealing should be done at the seams and penetration holes,
> > and no
> > > > insulation will improve that. Every certificated aircraft
> > has the
> > > > insulation on the cabin side of the firewall. With the
> > wiring and
> > > > cables that penetrate the insulation wherever you mount it,
> > you are
> > > > not going to take it off unless you are doing an engine
> > change. Far
> > > > too much labor. Materials used on the firewall assembly should
> > > > be fire
> > > > resistant. I heartily agree with those that replace the AL
> > vent boxes
> > > > with SS.
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 11:37 AM, LES KEARNEY
> > > > <Kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > Kelly
> > > > >
> > > > > As the Koolmat is fiberglass / silicone, I don't think oil
> > and gas
> > > > > absorbtion will be a problem.
> > > > >
> > > > > In my opinion, placing the mat on the cabin side of the
> > > > firewall will
> > > > > defeat the purpose of the mat as there will be little
> > > > protection from gases
> > > > > that could come through firewall penetrations. On the engine
> > > > side, the mat
> > > > > would perhaps cover some of the cracks and holes that would
> > > > otherwise allow
> > > > > the gases through.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know how much risk there would be of AL rivets melting
> > > > in the case
> > > > > of an enine fire, but I have seen a video of the VAN AL vents
> > > > melting under
> > > > > heat. If this is a risk, the mat on the firewall side
> > would provide
> > > > > protection.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would ask the A&Ps on the lis to chime in on the issue
> > of firewall
> > > > > inspections. I do note that the Koolmat website shows th mats
> > > > on the engine
> > > > > side of the firewall. See:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.koolmat.com/aircraft.shtml
> > > > >
> > > > > Another product to consider is : CONTEGO from A/C Spruce. See:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/contego.php
> > > > >
> > > > > Perhaps his could be used to protect the penetrations as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > >
> > > > > Les Keaney
> > > > > #40643
> > > > > C-GCWZ (reserved)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
> > > > > Date: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:06 am
> > > > > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
> > > > > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > > > >
> > > > > > Kelly McMullen wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <apilot2@gmail.com>>
> > > > > > >Opinions differ, but I would install it on the cabin side
> > > > of the
> > > > > > >firewall, for the exact reason you mention...you can
> > > > inspect the
> > > > > > >firewall better at annual time without anything covering
> > > > the engine
> > > > > > >side. Nothing to absorb oil and gas.
> > > > > > > On the inside, in some areas you may be able to
> > friction fit
> > > > > > it. Any
> > > > > > >glue/RTV will make it difficult to remove.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > Well, the problem with it inside the cabin is that it's almost
> > > > > > impossible to get to it to look at it anyway. I'll put
> > > > > > mine on the
> > > > > > inside and secure it well so that it won't come
> > loose. YMMV
> > > > > > Linn
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 6:11 AM, dmaib@mac.com
> > > > > > <dmaib@mac.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > <dmaib@mac.com>> > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > Any thoughts or comments, especially from those
> > who are
> > > > > > flying with
> > > > > > >Koolmat installed would be appreciated.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> do not archive
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> --------
> > > > > > >> David Maib
> > > > > > >> RV-10 #40559
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Read this topic online here:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163980#163980
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > RV10-List Email Forum -
> > > > _-
> > > >
> > = - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> > > > _-
> > > >
> > = - List Contribution Web Site -
> > > > _-
> > > >
> > = -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> > RV10-List Email Forum -
> > _-
> > = - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> > _-
> > = - List Contribution Web Site -
> > _-
> > = -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Koolmat Installation |
Les,
Don't fret, I still have my 180......
You're in good company!
bob
>
> From: LES KEARNEY <Kearney@shaw.ca>
> Date: 2008/02/14 Thu PM 07:51:18 EST
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
>
> Kelly
>
> Now you have outed me. The whole RV world now knows I am a closet Piper driver....
>
> I have been under my Cherokee panel, its not that bad - not great but not bad.
But I do take your point.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com>
> Date: Thursday, February 14, 2008 5:11 pm
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
> > <apilot2@gmail.com>
> > Have you ever stuck your head in the footwells of your Cherokee
> > to see
> > how straight your firewall is?
> > Ever worked in a Subie engine compartment? So you can get antifreeze
> > and oil accumulations..eh?
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 3:10 PM, LES KEARNEY
> > <Kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
> > > Hi Kelly
> > >
> > > I understand the need for inspections but surely no RV10 pilot
> > would ever
> > > admit to a hard landing.
> > >
> > > I think the difference in view is that I am thinking more in
> > terms of fire
> > > protection rather than insulation. As well, could not the firewall
> > > inspection for creases etc be done from the cabin side? I
> > would think that
> > > if a hard landing (not that I would admit to it) was a
> > concern, I would want
> > > to look at the interior weldments that are visable only from
> > the interior.
> > >
> > > The Koolmat could also be installed so that it could be lifted for
> > > inspection of the firewall.
> > >
> > > As far as oil is concerned, given that I am in line for a
> > Subaru, expect
> > > that oil leaks will be just a not so found memory of life with
> > m Lyc O-3060.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Les
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com>
> > > Date: Thursday, February 14, 2008 2:56 pm
> > > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
> > > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > >
> > > > <apilot2@gmail.com>
> > >
> > > > Les, just my opinion, and industry practice. You want to be
> > able to
> > > > have a clear view of the firewall. They do get cracks or
> > > > wrinkles from
> > > > hard landings, etc. You cannot see that from inside the cabin
> > > > and you
> > > > can't inspect it if you have an insulating cover over it.
> > Any material
> > > > that has a fabric or fiberglass mat will absorb oil, ultimately
> > > > a fire
> > > > risk. I'd rather let air do the cooling of the firewall. The
> > > > insulation on the inside will do just as well at insulating. Any
> > > > sealing should be done at the seams and penetration holes,
> > and no
> > > > insulation will improve that. Every certificated aircraft
> > has the
> > > > insulation on the cabin side of the firewall. With the
> > wiring and
> > > > cables that penetrate the insulation wherever you mount it,
> > you are
> > > > not going to take it off unless you are doing an engine
> > change. Far
> > > > too much labor. Materials used on the firewall assembly should
> > > > be fire
> > > > resistant. I heartily agree with those that replace the AL
> > vent boxes
> > > > with SS.
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 11:37 AM, LES KEARNEY
> > > > <Kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > Kelly
> > > > >
> > > > > As the Koolmat is fiberglass / silicone, I don't think oil
> > and gas
> > > > > absorbtion will be a problem.
> > > > >
> > > > > In my opinion, placing the mat on the cabin side of the
> > > > firewall will
> > > > > defeat the purpose of the mat as there will be little
> > > > protection from gases
> > > > > that could come through firewall penetrations. On the engine
> > > > side, the mat
> > > > > would perhaps cover some of the cracks and holes that would
> > > > otherwise allow
> > > > > the gases through.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know how much risk there would be of AL rivets melting
> > > > in the case
> > > > > of an enine fire, but I have seen a video of the VAN AL vents
> > > > melting under
> > > > > heat. If this is a risk, the mat on the firewall side
> > would provide
> > > > > protection.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would ask the A&Ps on the lis to chime in on the issue
> > of firewall
> > > > > inspections. I do note that the Koolmat website shows th mats
> > > > on the engine
> > > > > side of the firewall. See:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.koolmat.com/aircraft.shtml
> > > > >
> > > > > Another product to consider is : CONTEGO from A/C Spruce. See:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/contego.php
> > > > >
> > > > > Perhaps his could be used to protect the penetrations as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > >
> > > > > Les Keaney
> > > > > #40643
> > > > > C-GCWZ (reserved)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
> > > > > Date: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:06 am
> > > > > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
> > > > > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > > > >
> > > > > > Kelly McMullen wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <apilot2@gmail.com>>
> > > > > > >Opinions differ, but I would install it on the cabin side
> > > > of the
> > > > > > >firewall, for the exact reason you mention...you can
> > > > inspect the
> > > > > > >firewall better at annual time without anything covering
> > > > the engine
> > > > > > >side. Nothing to absorb oil and gas.
> > > > > > > On the inside, in some areas you may be able to
> > friction fit
> > > > > > it. Any
> > > > > > >glue/RTV will make it difficult to remove.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > Well, the problem with it inside the cabin is that it's almost
> > > > > > impossible to get to it to look at it anyway. I'll put
> > > > > > mine on the
> > > > > > inside and secure it well so that it won't come
> > loose. YMMV
> > > > > > Linn
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 6:11 AM, dmaib@mac.com
> > > > > > <dmaib@mac.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > <dmaib@mac.com>> > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > Any thoughts or comments, especially from those
> > who are
> > > > > > flying with
> > > > > > >Koolmat installed would be appreciated.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> do not archive
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> --------
> > > > > > >> David Maib
> > > > > > >> RV-10 #40559
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Read this topic online here:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163980#163980
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > RV10-List Email Forum -
> > > > _-
> > > >
> > = - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> > > > _-
> > > >
> > = - List Contribution Web Site -
> > > > _-
> > > >
> > = -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > RV10-List Email Forum -
> > _-
> > = - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> > _-
> > = - List Contribution Web Site -
> > _-
> > = -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Koolmat Installation |
Hey Guys,
We're not this far yet, but very interested in the discussion. If removable insulation
is desirable, is there a velcro product that could be used here?
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Landing gear installed, we're mobile!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164117#164117
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Koolmat Installation |
We built our own aircraft....we are not certificated...WE work on our aircraft
because WE like it, NOT paid to do it...not because it its labor intense. We build
our aircaft to EXCEED industry practices. I know there are a lot of good
A&P's out there...I just wish someone would take away their bubble gum, duct/speed
tape and safety wire fixes.
Rick Sked
40185
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 1:30:46 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
Les, just my opinion, and industry practice. You want to be able to
have a clear view of the firewall. They do get cracks or wrinkles from
hard landings, etc. You cannot see that from inside the cabin and you
can't inspect it if you have an insulating cover over it. Any material
that has a fabric or fiberglass mat will absorb oil, ultimately a fire
risk. I'd rather let air do the cooling of the firewall. The
insulation on the inside will do just as well at insulating. Any
sealing should be done at the seams and penetration holes, and no
insulation will improve that. Every certificated aircraft has the
insulation on the cabin side of the firewall. With the wiring and
cables that penetrate the insulation wherever you mount it, you are
not going to take it off unless you are doing an engine change. Far
too much labor. Materials used on the firewall assembly should be fire
resistant. I heartily agree with those that replace the AL vent boxes
with SS.
On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 11:37 AM, LES KEARNEY <Kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
> Kelly
>
> As the Koolmat is fiberglass / silicone, I don't think oil and gas
> absorbtion will be a problem.
>
> In my opinion, placing the mat on the cabin side of the firewall will
> defeat the purpose of the mat as there will be little protection from gases
> that could come through firewall penetrations. On the engine side, the mat
> would perhaps cover some of the cracks and holes that would otherwise allow
> the gases through.
>
> I don't know how much risk there would be of AL rivets melting in the case
> of an enine fire, but I have seen a video of the VAN AL vents melting under
> heat. If this is a risk, the mat on the firewall side would provide
> protection.
>
> I would ask the A&Ps on the lis to chime in on the issue of firewall
> inspections. I do note that the Koolmat website shows th mats on the engine
> side of the firewall. See:
>
> http://www.koolmat.com/aircraft.shtml
>
> Another product to consider is : CONTEGO from A/C Spruce. See:
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/contego.php
>
> Perhaps his could be used to protect the penetrations as well.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les Keaney
> #40643
> C-GCWZ (reserved)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
> Date: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:06 am
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
> > Kelly McMullen wrote:
> >
> > <apilot2@gmail.com>>
> > >Opinions differ, but I would install it on the cabin side of the
> > >firewall, for the exact reason you mention...you can inspect the
> > >firewall better at annual time without anything covering the engine
> > >side. Nothing to absorb oil and gas.
> > > On the inside, in some areas you may be able to friction fit
> > it. Any
> > >glue/RTV will make it difficult to remove.
> > >
> > Well, the problem with it inside the cabin is that it's almost
> > impossible to get to it to look at it anyway. I'll put
> > mine on the
> > inside and secure it well so that it won't come loose. YMMV
> > Linn
> >
> > >
> > >On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 6:11 AM, dmaib@mac.com
> > <dmaib@mac.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > > Any thoughts or comments, especially from those who are
> > flying with
> > >Koolmat installed would be appreciated.
> > >
> > >
> > >> do not archive
> > >>
> > >> --------
> > >> David Maib
> > >> RV-10 #40559
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Read this topic online here:
> > >>
> > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163980#163980
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Safety-Trim Air Speed Switch Question |
Our Air Speed Switch (ASW-1) connects into your standard pitot and
static system, you just need to "T" into each of the respective lines.
Using it with an alternate source of static pressure from inside the
cabin is not an issue. Under all normal cases that static source is
closed off, when the Static test performed it certainly checks to
ensure that the alternate static source doesn't leak. If you ever use
your alternate source in actual conditions the pitot and static system
will already be close in differential pressure so no issue. The only
problem I know of is during the Static Test when your airplane is
sitting on the ground, but the test equipment takes your pitot and
static lines up to 20,000 ft. Regarding the recommendations of other
manufacturers I can only speculate, so don't take this to the bank.
But perhaps they are using a solid-state pressure transducer that can
withstand large differential pressures. The real problem is for
transducers or instruments with some sort of diaphragm mechanism.
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies
www.tcwtech.com
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Koolmat Installation |
OK...
Koolmat is intended as a FIRE BARRIER. It is intended to be installed on the engine
side firewall. Ask all the NASCAR drivers who experienced catastropic engine
fires last year how it worked, it's standard equipment. If you have a problem
with inspecting your firewall, don't use it. I have it on mine, it is held
by a perimeter bead of red RTV. I can peel it off without much trouble, I have
done it once already. If you want to bat around the inspection of the firewall
issue then fine, I can pull my stainless steel heat valves off, loosen my
eyeball cable guides, remove my firewall mounted electrial connectors and see
my firewall in about an hours worth of work. BUT....if I prang a landing, the
last thing I'm worrying about is the firewall. The firewall is really not a structural
piece. The weldments and adjoining structural members are the parts that
will absorb the impact and show signs of STRUCTURAL failure. Yes the firewall
will wrinkle, but get on your back, scoot your ass under the panel and see
what is really bent. Most of us elected to use the koolmat to prevent heat buldup
in the tunnel. It is a fiberglass mat with a pure silicone finish. It is
NOT a insulator...it is intended to keep FLAMES from breaching the firewall. So
screw your indifference. Rob has spelled it out..read the spec sheet on the
stuff and decide if you want it or not...Look at a tube and frame aircraft, the
firewall only is intended to keep flames away from the cockpit...not provide
structural integrity. I'm off the soap box...
Risk Sked
40185
Koolmat user
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 4:54:29 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
I'm glad there is a difference in your mind. That is the only place
you will find any difference in R value or acoustic value.
If it is on the front side, you will NOT be able to properly inspect
the firewall.
On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 4:10 PM, Bob-tcw <rnewman@tcwtech.com> wrote:
>
>
> I'm going to use Koolmat on my RV-10, I'm planning on putting it on the
> firewall side for the following reasons.
>
> 1) The Silicon side of koolmat is quite impervious to oil and fluids.
> 2) Heat transfer is a function of three modes: Convection, Conduction and
> Radiation. Limiting heat transfer into the passanger compartment should
> best be accomplished by reducing each of these factors. Insulation on
> either side of the firewall will be effective at reducing conduction,
> (convection should not be an issue because there's no airflow over the
> firewall per se) However, Only by insulating the firewall side can we
> reduce the effects of radiation. The radiated heat of the engine and
> exhaust system will land on the firewall and heat the firewall. With
> insulation only on the cabin side, the firewall effectively is heated and
> re-radiates into the cabin. The insulation on the cabin side only slows
> the progress of heat flow into the cabin it doesn't prevent it from
> occuring. With insulation on the firewall side, the radiated energy cannot
> heat the firewall to begin with and therefore should provide less cabin
> heating.
> 3) Accoustically it should be quieter. For the same reasons as in # 2 for
> heat, accoustically it should be quiter if the firewall is not radiated
> with sound energy. Theoretically! will see in practice hopefully the
> end of this year.
>
>
> So those our my reasons for insulating the firewall side. note, I do plan
> on corrosion proofing the rivets on the firewall side before applying the
> koolmat.
>
> FWIW
>
>
> Bob Newman
> TCW Technologies
> www.tcwtech.com
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Koolmat Installation |
Looks like Koolmat installation might become the next 'primer war'
<gag>.
I installed Koolmat on the engine side of the firewall about 12 months
ago when 'tunnel heat' was the hot topic (bad pun - sorry). It was my
attempt to reduce any radiant heat affects that drove tunnel temps and I
used red RTV for attachment. I also installed a layer of Koolmat on the
tunnel floor, attached with velcro in answer to Lew's question below. I
have also heard of builders here in Oz using snap fasteners and even s/s
screws to pin the mat in position, but I doubt that velcro would be up
to the mission in the engine compartment. Just another 0.02 worth.
Cheers,
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lew Gallagher
Sent: Friday, 15 February 2008 2:07 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
Hey Guys,
We're not this far yet, but very interested in the discussion. If
removable insulation is desirable, is there a velcro product that could
be used here?
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Landing gear installed, we're mobile!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164117#164117
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Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Koolmat Installation |
Hey! After learning in the Katana, I moved on to the big iron. A Cherokee,
then up to the Arrow. Then finally into a 1979 182. All good aeroplanes.
So, Les, my good man, I'm with you in being a proud Piper / Cessna driver.
Good background for appreciating the experimental / RV world.
John Jessen
Glastar flying
RV-10 building (sort of)
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
Sorry about that Les, I thought everyone knew about your steam powered
airplane. In fact some folks in your old neighborhood were asking if the RV
would also be steam powered.
Do not archive
On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 5:51 PM, LES KEARNEY <Kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
> Kelly
>
> Now you have outed me. The whole RV world now knows I am a closet
> Piper driver....
>
> I have been under my Cherokee panel, its not that bad - not great but
> not bad. But I do take your point.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com>
> Date: Thursday, February 14, 2008 5:11 pm
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
> > <apilot2@gmail.com>
> > Have you ever stuck your head in the footwells of your Cherokee to
> > see how straight your firewall is?
> > Ever worked in a Subie engine compartment? So you can get antifreeze
> > and oil accumulations..eh?
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 3:10 PM, LES KEARNEY <Kearney@shaw.ca>
> > wrote:
> > > Hi Kelly
> > >
> > > I understand the need for inspections but surely no RV10 pilot
> > would ever
> > > admit to a hard landing.
> > >
> > > I think the difference in view is that I am thinking more in
> > terms of fire
> > > protection rather than insulation. As well, could not the firewall
> > > inspection for creases etc be done from the cabin side? I
> > would think that
> > > if a hard landing (not that I would admit to it) was a
> > concern, I would want
> > > to look at the interior weldments that are visable only from
> > the interior.
> > >
> > > The Koolmat could also be installed so that it could be lifted for
> > > inspection of the firewall.
> > >
> > > As far as oil is concerned, given that I am in line for a
> > Subaru, expect
> > > that oil leaks will be just a not so found memory of life with
> > m Lyc O-3060.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Les
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
>
> > > From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com>
> > > Date: Thursday, February 14, 2008 2:56 pm
> > > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
> > > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > >
> > > > <apilot2@gmail.com>
> > >
> > > > Les, just my opinion, and industry practice. You want to be
> > able to
> > > > have a clear view of the firewall. They do get cracks or
> > > > wrinkles from hard landings, etc. You cannot see that from
> > > > inside the cabin and you can't inspect it if you have an
> > > > insulating cover over it.
> > Any material
> > > > that has a fabric or fiberglass mat will absorb oil, ultimately
> > > > a fire risk. I'd rather let air do the cooling of the firewall.
> > > > The insulation on the inside will do just as well at insulating.
> > > > Any sealing should be done at the seams and penetration holes,
> > and no
> > > > insulation will improve that. Every certificated aircraft
> > has the
> > > > insulation on the cabin side of the firewall. With the
> > wiring and
> > > > cables that penetrate the insulation wherever you mount it,
> > you are
> > > > not going to take it off unless you are doing an engine
> > change. Far
> > > > too much labor. Materials used on the firewall assembly should
> > > > be fire resistant. I heartily agree with those that replace the
> > > > AL
> > vent boxes
> > > > with SS.
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 11:37 AM, LES KEARNEY <Kearney@shaw.ca>
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > > Kelly
> > > > >
> > > > > As the Koolmat is fiberglass / silicone, I don't think oil
> > and gas
> > > > > absorbtion will be a problem.
> > > > >
> > > > > In my opinion, placing the mat on the cabin side of the
> > > > firewall will
> > > > > defeat the purpose of the mat as there will be little
> > > > protection from gases
> > > > > that could come through firewall penetrations. On the engine
> > > > side, the mat
> > > > > would perhaps cover some of the cracks and holes that would
> > > > otherwise allow
> > > > > the gases through.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know how much risk there would be of AL rivets melting
> > > > in the case
> > > > > of an enine fire, but I have seen a video of the VAN AL vents
> > > > melting under
> > > > > heat. If this is a risk, the mat on the firewall side
> > would provide
> > > > > protection.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would ask the A&Ps on the lis to chime in on the issue
> > of firewall
> > > > > inspections. I do note that the Koolmat website shows th mats
> > > > on the engine
> > > > > side of the firewall. See:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.koolmat.com/aircraft.shtml
> > > > >
> > > > > Another product to consider is : CONTEGO from A/C Spruce. See:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/contego.php
> > > > >
> > > > > Perhaps his could be used to protect the penetrations as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > >
> > > > > Les Keaney
> > > > > #40643
> > > > > C-GCWZ (reserved)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
> > > > > Date: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:06 am
> > > > > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
> > > > > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > > > >
> > > > > > Kelly McMullen wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <apilot2@gmail.com>>
> > > > > > >Opinions differ, but I would install it on the cabin side
> > > > of the
> > > > > > >firewall, for the exact reason you mention...you can
> > > > inspect the
> > > > > > >firewall better at annual time without anything covering
> > > > the engine
> > > > > > >side. Nothing to absorb oil and gas.
> > > > > > > On the inside, in some areas you may be able to
> > friction fit
> > > > > > it. Any
> > > > > > >glue/RTV will make it difficult to remove.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > Well, the problem with it inside the cabin is that it's
> > > > > > almost impossible to get to it to look at it anyway. I'll
> > > > > > put mine on the inside and secure it well so that it won't
> > > > > > come
> > loose. YMMV
> > > > > > Linn
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 6:11 AM, dmaib@mac.com
> > > > > > <dmaib@mac.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > <dmaib@mac.com>> > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > Any thoughts or comments, especially from those
> > who are
> > > > > > flying with
> > > > > > >Koolmat installed would be appreciated.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> do not archive
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> --------
> > > > > > >> David Maib
> > > > > > >> RV-10 #40559
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Read this topic online here:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163980#163980
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > RV10-List Email Forum -
> > > > _-
> > > >
> > = - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> > > > _-
> > > >
> > = - List Contribution Web Site -
> > > > _-
> > > >
> > = -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> > RV10-List Email Forum -
> > _-
> > = - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> > _-
> > = - List Contribution Web Site -
> > _-
> > = -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Safety-Trim Air Speed Switch Question |
Bob,
Glad to see your on the list...keeping us honest. I have not received mine
yet...hopefully in=C2- few weeks. I opted forthe speed switch as well. Go
od info regarding the pressure balance on pitot/static checks.
Rick Sked
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob-tcw" <rnewman@tcwtech.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 5:49:54 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Safety-Trim Air Speed Switch Question
Our Air Speed Switch=C2- (ASW-1) connects into your standard pitot and st
atic system,=C2-=C2- you just need to "T" into each of the respective l
ines.=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Using it with an alternate source of static p
ressure from inside the cabin is not an issue.=C2- Under all normal cases
that static source is closed off,=C2- when the Static test performed it
certainly checks to ensure that the alternate static source doesn't leak.
=C2-=C2-=C2-If you ever use your alternate source in actual condition
s the pitot and static system will already be close in differential pressur
e so no issue.=C2-=C2-=C2- The=C2-only problem I know of is during
the Static Test when your airplane is sitting on the ground, but the test e
quipment takes your pitot and static lines up to=C2-20,000 ft.=C2-=C2
-=C2- =C2-Regarding the recommendations of other manufacturers I can
only speculate,=C2- so don't take this to the bank.=C2-=C2-=C2- But
perhaps they are using a solid-state pressure transducer that can withstan
d large differential pressures.=C2-=C2- The real problem is for transdu
cers or instruments with some sort of diaphragm mechanism.
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies
www.tcwtech.com
====
=======================
==
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Koolmat Installation |
I'm struggling a bit with this concept of radiant heating of the
firewall. It is behind the engine baffling, gets airflow after it passes
through the cylinders, so only the exhaust system is radiating any
direct heat towards the firewall, absent an uncontained fire. Maybe this
product would help on the lower half of the firewall, but surely there
is no significant radiant heating of the upper half of the firewall.
Other than at very low airspeed or taxing, there probably isn't
significant radiant heat on the lower firewall either.
William Curtis wrote:
>
> Kelly,
>
> Based on your concerns below, I think the Koolmat may be a waste of money for
you. You may be better served by looking at a product designed specifically
for the cabin side of the firewall.
>
> By placing the Koolmat on the cabin side of the firewall, you eliminate one of
the principal benefits of the Koolmat, that of reduction of radiant heating
of the firewall and everything that is attached to it. The fibers in the Koolmat
are impregnated and would be difficult to absorb moisture. Certainly being
able to inspect the firewall is valuable, however I think this could be done
from the cabin side.
>
> I used red RTV and the engine mount to hold mine in place. The most challenging
part was neatly making all the cutouts for the various items passing through
the firewall.
>
> William
> http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
> "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and
those who matter don't mind."
> -- Dr. Suess
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Koolmat Installation |
The manufacturer "is" the builder, not the various suppliers. The RV-10
is a great example of a lot of experimental products coming together
into a unique final creation by us. At times like these, the words of
Richard come to mind this Christmas as we discussed the 51% Committee
accomplishments and his role as Co-Chair.
"There are no standards in Experimental Built - there are now 29,000
finished experiments flying in the system". In the certified world,
every prudent manufacturer has a firewall that allows for inspection at
each annual. The firewall tells a lot about dissimilar metal corrosion,
wire chafing, and stresses endured during the previous period since last
inspection and other valuable observations. One side tends to show these
better than the other.
Probably Kelly's extensive experience as an IA and his desire for safe
operations clouded his views on the experimental portion of this
pursuit. Maybe the words "on a wing and a prayer" came to his mind.
Periodically, get a trained pair of eyes to look over your shoulder as
you travel down life's highway.
Good luck, Choose Wisely and fly safe.
John Cox
40600
Do not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rv10builder
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
I installed mine per the manufacturers suggestions...
http://www.koolmat.com/aircraft.shtml
Brian Sutherland
40308
Wheelpants, Inspection, then Fly!!!
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> Les, just my opinion, and industry practice. You want to be able to
> have a clear view of the firewall. They do get cracks or wrinkles from
> hard landings, etc. You cannot see that from inside the cabin and you
> can't inspect it if you have an insulating cover over it. Any material
> that has a fabric or fiberglass mat will absorb oil, ultimately a fire
> risk. I'd rather let air do the cooling of the firewall. The
> insulation on the inside will do just as well at insulating. Any
> sealing should be done at the seams and penetration holes, and no
> insulation will improve that. Every certificated aircraft has the
> insulation on the cabin side of the firewall. With the wiring and
> cables that penetrate the insulation wherever you mount it, you are
> not going to take it off unless you are doing an engine change. Far
> too much labor. Materials used on the firewall assembly should be fire
> resistant. I heartily agree with those that replace the AL vent boxes
> with SS.
>
> On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 11:37 AM, LES KEARNEY <Kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>> Kelly
>>
>> As the Koolmat is fiberglass / silicone, I don't think oil and gas
>> absorbtion will be a problem.
>>
>> In my opinion, placing the mat on the cabin side of the firewall
will
>> defeat the purpose of the mat as there will be little protection from
gases
>> that could come through firewall penetrations. On the engine side,
the mat
>> would perhaps cover some of the cracks and holes that would otherwise
allow
>> the gases through.
>>
>> I don't know how much risk there would be of AL rivets melting in the
case
>> of an enine fire, but I have seen a video of the VAN AL vents melting
under
>> heat. If this is a risk, the mat on the firewall side would provide
>> protection.
>>
>> I would ask the A&Ps on the lis to chime in on the issue of firewall
>> inspections. I do note that the Koolmat website shows th mats on the
engine
>> side of the firewall. See:
>>
>> http://www.koolmat.com/aircraft.shtml
>>
>> Another product to consider is : CONTEGO from A/C Spruce. See:
>>
>> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/contego.php
>>
>> Perhaps his could be used to protect the penetrations as well.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Les Keaney
>> #40643
>> C-GCWZ (reserved)
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Koolmat Installation |
Kelly
Given these politically correct days, I am not sure the CO2 emissions from a
coal fired, steam powered RV would be acceptable.....
Cheers
Les
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: February-14-08 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
Sorry about that Les, I thought everyone knew about your steam powered
airplane. In fact some folks in your old neighborhood were asking if
the RV would also be steam powered.
Do not archive
On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 5:51 PM, LES KEARNEY <Kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
> Kelly
>
> Now you have outed me. The whole RV world now knows I am a closet Piper
> driver....
>
> I have been under my Cherokee panel, its not that bad - not great but not
> bad. But I do take your point.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com>
> Date: Thursday, February 14, 2008 5:11 pm
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
> > <apilot2@gmail.com>
> > Have you ever stuck your head in the footwells of your Cherokee
> > to see
> > how straight your firewall is?
> > Ever worked in a Subie engine compartment? So you can get antifreeze
> > and oil accumulations..eh?
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 3:10 PM, LES KEARNEY
> > <Kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
> > > Hi Kelly
> > >
> > > I understand the need for inspections but surely no RV10 pilot
> > would ever
> > > admit to a hard landing.
> > >
> > > I think the difference in view is that I am thinking more in
> > terms of fire
> > > protection rather than insulation. As well, could not the firewall
> > > inspection for creases etc be done from the cabin side? I
> > would think that
> > > if a hard landing (not that I would admit to it) was a
> > concern, I would want
> > > to look at the interior weldments that are visable only from
> > the interior.
> > >
> > > The Koolmat could also be installed so that it could be lifted for
> > > inspection of the firewall.
> > >
> > > As far as oil is concerned, given that I am in line for a
> > Subaru, expect
> > > that oil leaks will be just a not so found memory of life with
> > m Lyc O-3060.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Les
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
>
> > > From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com>
> > > Date: Thursday, February 14, 2008 2:56 pm
> > > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
> > > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > >
> > > > <apilot2@gmail.com>
> > >
> > > > Les, just my opinion, and industry practice. You want to be
> > able to
> > > > have a clear view of the firewall. They do get cracks or
> > > > wrinkles from
> > > > hard landings, etc. You cannot see that from inside the cabin
> > > > and you
> > > > can't inspect it if you have an insulating cover over it.
> > Any material
> > > > that has a fabric or fiberglass mat will absorb oil, ultimately
> > > > a fire
> > > > risk. I'd rather let air do the cooling of the firewall. The
> > > > insulation on the inside will do just as well at insulating. Any
> > > > sealing should be done at the seams and penetration holes,
> > and no
> > > > insulation will improve that. Every certificated aircraft
> > has the
> > > > insulation on the cabin side of the firewall. With the
> > wiring and
> > > > cables that penetrate the insulation wherever you mount it,
> > you are
> > > > not going to take it off unless you are doing an engine
> > change. Far
> > > > too much labor. Materials used on the firewall assembly should
> > > > be fire
> > > > resistant. I heartily agree with those that replace the AL
> > vent boxes
> > > > with SS.
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 11:37 AM, LES KEARNEY
> > > > <Kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > Kelly
> > > > >
> > > > > As the Koolmat is fiberglass / silicone, I don't think oil
> > and gas
> > > > > absorbtion will be a problem.
> > > > >
> > > > > In my opinion, placing the mat on the cabin side of the
> > > > firewall will
> > > > > defeat the purpose of the mat as there will be little
> > > > protection from gases
> > > > > that could come through firewall penetrations. On the engine
> > > > side, the mat
> > > > > would perhaps cover some of the cracks and holes that would
> > > > otherwise allow
> > > > > the gases through.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know how much risk there would be of AL rivets melting
> > > > in the case
> > > > > of an enine fire, but I have seen a video of the VAN AL vents
> > > > melting under
> > > > > heat. If this is a risk, the mat on the firewall side
> > would provide
> > > > > protection.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would ask the A&Ps on the lis to chime in on the issue
> > of firewall
> > > > > inspections. I do note that the Koolmat website shows th mats
> > > > on the engine
> > > > > side of the firewall. See:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.koolmat.com/aircraft.shtml
> > > > >
> > > > > Another product to consider is : CONTEGO from A/C Spruce. See:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/contego.php
> > > > >
> > > > > Perhaps his could be used to protect the penetrations as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > >
> > > > > Les Keaney
> > > > > #40643
> > > > > C-GCWZ (reserved)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
> > > > > Date: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:06 am
> > > > > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
> > > > > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > > > >
> > > > > > Kelly McMullen wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <apilot2@gmail.com>>
> > > > > > >Opinions differ, but I would install it on the cabin side
> > > > of the
> > > > > > >firewall, for the exact reason you mention...you can
> > > > inspect the
> > > > > > >firewall better at annual time without anything covering
> > > > the engine
> > > > > > >side. Nothing to absorb oil and gas.
> > > > > > > On the inside, in some areas you may be able to
> > friction fit
> > > > > > it. Any
> > > > > > >glue/RTV will make it difficult to remove.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > Well, the problem with it inside the cabin is that it's almost
> > > > > > impossible to get to it to look at it anyway. I'll put
> > > > > > mine on the
> > > > > > inside and secure it well so that it won't come
> > loose. YMMV
> > > > > > Linn
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 6:11 AM, dmaib@mac.com
> > > > > > <dmaib@mac.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > <dmaib@mac.com>> > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > Any thoughts or comments, especially from those
> > who are
> > > > > > flying with
> > > > > > >Koolmat installed would be appreciated.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> do not archive
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> --------
> > > > > > >> David Maib
> > > > > > >> RV-10 #40559
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Read this topic online here:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163980#163980
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > RV10-List Email Forum -
> > > > _-
> > > >
> > = - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> > > > _-
> > > >
> > = - List Contribution Web Site -
> > > > _-
> > > >
> > = -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> > RV10-List Email Forum -
> > _-
> > = - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> > _-
> > = - List Contribution Web Site -
> > _-
> > = -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | SilPruf Window Installation (Here goes...) |
Patrick
Hi from the northern end of the Commonwealth!
I know next to nothing about composites, but am trying to learn. I'll
certainly pass on comments etc once I have seen the video.
Cheers
Les Kearney
#450643
C-GXWZ (reserved)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Pulis
Sent: February-14-08 5:21 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: SilPruf Window Installation (Here goes...)
<patrick.pulis@seagas.com.au>
Les, once you view the video, could you please post a overview of the
installation process and your thoughts please?
Regards
Patrick Pulis
#40299 VH-XPP
Adelaide, South Australia
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: Les Kearney [mailto:kearney@shaw.ca]
Sent: Thursday, 14 February 2008 1:46 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: SilPruf Window Installation (Here goes...)
Dave
Many thanks for such a detailed post. Where I live it can go from -40F
in winter to +90F in summer. Thermal expansion of joints around windows
etc is an issue that I have been concerned about.
On the strength of your recommendation, I have ordered the video and
hope to put it to good use.
Regards
Les Kearney
#40643
C-GCWZ (Reserved)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor
Sent: February-12-08 4:54 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: SilPruf Window Installation (Here goes...)
Nope. But I have seen it work very well in many other applications
besides this one. The numbers say it would take a catastrophe to break
the bond--thousands of pounds loading against the window--at which point
the strength of the bond becomes a moot point. So, no, I haven't
checked, but I still I trust the application.
Also, it's a bit of an apples/oranges comparison because the SilPruf
stretches so much further before breaking. That's what makes it nice
for preventing the hairline cracks.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Lewis
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: SilPruf Window Installation (Here goes...)
Dave,
Have you compared the holding power of SilPruf to that of WeldOn?
Thanks,
Tim
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 1000 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
Message 33
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| Subject: | RE: Trim Controller |
This wasn't from the "Group buy" was it?
I haven't received any info from Stein since Jan 23rd and am hoping that I haven't
deleted something important by mistake.
john
gary <speckter@comcast.net> wrote:
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } I just got my trim controller
from Stein and have a question that might be helpful to all.
I got the air switch. It has a Pitot input and a Static input. Is there any
overwhelming reason to plumb the static port into the aircraft system? Why not
leave it open to the cabin pressure? Other than being off a few MPH from time
to time would it make any big difference?
Gary
40274
---------------------------------
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:20 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Shameless For-Profit Promotion of New RV-10 Products
We've posted a few new products on our web site specifically for RV-10s: http://www.aircraftersllc.com/products.htm
Please call or email with any questions!
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Koolmat Installation |
Lew
When I spoke to Patty at Koolmat today she suggested using a product called
"gorilla snot" (I kid you not) to secure the Koolmat. She said it was also
called "3M Yellow" so I think this is it:
http://www.3mestore.com/62214006090.html?WT.mc_id=3M-com-AtoZ-Super-Weathers
trip-Adhesive
She also mentioned that you must use a silicone based adhesive to join
sheets.
Cheers
Les Kearney
#40643
C-GCWZ (reserved)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lew Gallagher
Sent: February-14-08 8:37 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
Hey Guys,
We're not this far yet, but very interested in the discussion. If removable
insulation is desirable, is there a velcro product that could be used here?
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Landing gear installed, we're mobile!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164117#164117
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Koolmat Installation |
Hmmm
I think that there are two different applications being discussed her.
I for one am only concerned about fire protection. Granted this is a very
low risk, I have read a few stories about engine fires that make me want to
spend a few dineros to mitigate this risk. Do a search on the VansAIrForce
website for some interesting tales...
Interestingly, one of the places where fire can enter the cockpit is via the
floor. It seems that an engine fire will flow under the firewall and melt
the bottom skin. I plan to line the full floor area with Koolmat to mitigate
this risk as well.
The other application being discussed is about insulation. Here I don't care
so much. I fly in places were a -25c days is not uncommon in winter. So if
its heat, bring it on....
Cheers
Les Keaney
#40643
C-GCWZ (reserved)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: February-14-08 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Koolmat Installation
I'm struggling a bit with this concept of radiant heating of the
firewall. It is behind the engine baffling, gets airflow after it passes
through the cylinders, so only the exhaust system is radiating any
direct heat towards the firewall, absent an uncontained fire. Maybe this
product would help on the lower half of the firewall, but surely there
is no significant radiant heating of the upper half of the firewall.
Other than at very low airspeed or taxing, there probably isn't
significant radiant heat on the lower firewall either.
William Curtis wrote:
>
> Kelly,
>
> Based on your concerns below, I think the Koolmat may be a waste of money
for you. You may be better served by looking at a product designed
specifically for the cabin side of the firewall.
>
> By placing the Koolmat on the cabin side of the firewall, you eliminate
one of the principal benefits of the Koolmat, that of reduction of radiant
heating of the firewall and everything that is attached to it. The fibers
in the Koolmat are impregnated and would be difficult to absorb moisture.
Certainly being able to inspect the firewall is valuable, however I think
this could be done from the cabin side.
>
> I used red RTV and the engine mount to hold mine in place. The most
challenging part was neatly making all the cutouts for the various items
passing through the firewall.
>
> William
> http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
> "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter
and those who matter don't mind."
> -- Dr. Suess
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Koolmat Installation |
So why not a solar energized steam turbine? Or algae derived biodiesel
fired steam boiler? Where's the real experimental here anyway? Lycs
and auto derived internal combustion is sooooooooo passe, eh?
Perhaps Rick is right...if you can mount the Koolmat on the front side
in a way that it is easily removable for inspections, it just might be
the trick, although in Alberta, you probably need another insulation
on the back side.
On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 9:40 PM, Les Kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> Kelly
>
> Given these politically correct days, I am not sure the CO2 emissions from a
> coal fired, steam powered RV would be acceptable.....
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
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