Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:21 AM - Re: Re: Lower Cowl Mounts (Larry Rosen)
2. 05:49 AM - Shoulder Harness Hardpoint (Barry Marz)
3. 06:09 AM - Another lesson with windows (John Testement)
4. 06:25 AM - Re: Shoulder Harness Hardpoint (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
5. 06:26 AM - Re: Another lesson with windows (Kelly McMullen)
6. 06:53 AM - Re: Another lesson with windows (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
7. 07:01 AM - Re: Shoulder Harness Hardpoint (Bob Leffler)
8. 07:27 AM - Re: Another lesson with windows (orchidman)
9. 07:37 AM - Re: Shoulder Harness Hardpoint (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
10. 01:45 PM - Re: Shoulder Harness Hardpoint (gary)
11. 04:08 PM - Re: Shoulder Harness Hardpoint (Marcus Cooper)
12. 04:17 PM - Re: Shoulder Harness Hardpoint (William Curtis)
13. 07:09 PM - OSH (David McNeill)
14. 08:04 PM - Re: OSH (Bob Leffler)
15. 08:46 PM - Re: OSH (linn Walters)
16. 10:08 PM - Re: OSH (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
17. 10:34 PM - Re: OSH (neil)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Lower Cowl Mounts |
Hate to say it, but William you are correct :-) . I took a look at the
original photos and the bottom ones do not have the same markings on
that as the camlocs on the sides.
Larry
William Curtis wrote:
>
> Larry,
>
> Those bottom ones don't look like Camlocs, they look like screws with Tinnerman
washers. I know Vic sold the plane but is he still on the list?
>
> William
> http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
> "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and
those who matter don't mind."
> -- Dr. Suess
>
> -------- Original Message --------
>
>>
>> Vic used camlocs all the way around. You can see photos here:
>> <http://lrosen.nerv10.com/Construct/SunNFun_2006/Vic%20RV10/CamLocs/index.html>
>>
>> Larry Rosen
>>
>> William Curtis wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Guys,
>>>> did anyone use camlocks for the bottom cowling mounts?
>>>> Michael
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I am. Two per side on a 0.63 base. Four of each of the below:
>>>
>>> 244-16 Floting Receptacle 2.89
>>> 4002-4 Camloc Stud 2.45
>>> 4002-O Camloc Grommet 1.53
>>> R4G Snap Rings 0.20
>>>
>>> I used these on the horizontal sides of my Cardinal to replace the SouthCo
fasteners and I like them a lot. Not enough however to use them in place of the
hinges on the 10 except on the cowl bottom.
>>>
>>> The above prices are from Spruce, however if you go to OSH or Sun-N-Fun you
can get them at the Aeromart for less. If you want to pay even more you can
get the adjustable receptacle version but since the -4 stud will fit the thickness
range of our cowling, I don't see any reason to use them.
>>>
>>> William
>>> http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
>>> "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and
those who matter don't mind."
>>> -- Dr. Suess
>>>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Shoulder Harness Hardpoint |
I am wondering if the hard-point for the shoulder harness connection
needs to be reinforced or have a washer added on top, so it will work
when needed. Any thoughts?
Barry Marz
18735 Baseleg AVE.
FT. Myers, Fl 33917
239-567-2271
blalmarz@embarqmail.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Another lesson with windows |
I finished priming the canopy and windows last week and had a problem
(Dupont Colar high build primer). The primer did not stick well to the
Plexiglas and I was able to easily scrape it off with a razor blade - not
good. Before priming, I prepped my rear windows and windshield by scuffing
the plexi real well and taping the edge. I then cleaned with mineral
spirits. I believe that I have read that you should not use Acetone or MEK
on the windows - causes crazing. So I used mineral spirits - that was the
mistake. My painter believes that the oil in mineral spirits caused the
problem. Has anyone else had a similar experience?
I really miss the good ole days of riveting!
John Testement
HYPERLINK "mailto:jwt@roadmapscoaching.com"jwt@roadmapscoaching.com
40321
Richmond, VA
Paint prep, interior, and LOTS of little stuff
do not archive
9:46 PM
Message 4
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| Subject: | Shoulder Harness Hardpoint |
I talked to my TC a while back about this subject and while he isn't a composite
guy, he thought that it made more sense to make the hardpoint on the exterior
or the cabin top. I planned to look into it more once I got to that point
but this seems to be a good time to discuss.
So what do the composite guys like Gary and Dave think? In adding a hard point
for seatbelts to the canopy should it be from the inside or outside?
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Marz
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 7:47 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Shoulder Harness Hardpoint
I am wondering if the hard-point for the shoulder harness connection
needs to be reinforced or have a washer added on top, so it will work
when needed. Any thoughts?
Barry Marz
18735 Baseleg AVE.
FT. Myers, Fl 33917
239-567-2271
blalmarz@embarqmail.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Another lesson with windows |
Use isopropyl alcohol on plexi. Get the higher purity 91% variety at
aviation section of Walgreens or equivalent. Very effective for removing
oils, etc.
On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 7:06 AM, John Testement <john@roadmapscoaching.com>
wrote:
> I finished priming the canopy and windows last week and had a problem
> (Dupont Colar high build primer). The primer did not stick well to the
> Plexiglas and I was able to easily scrape it off with a razor blade - not
> good. Before priming, I prepped my rear windows and windshield by scuffing
> the plexi real well and taping the edge. I then cleaned with mineral
> spirits. I believe that I have read that you should not use Acetone or MEK
> on the windows - causes crazing. So I used mineral spirits - that was the
> mistake. My painter believes that the oil in mineral spirits caused the
> problem. Has anyone else had a similar experience?
>
> I really miss the good ole days of riveting!
>
> John Testement
> jwt@roadmapscoaching.com
> 40321
> Richmond, VA
> Paint prep, interior, and LOTS of little stuff
> do not archive
>
>
> 3/4/2008 9:46 PM
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Another lesson with windows |
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Shoulder Harness Hardpoint |
If I recall what Dave Saylor did to his, when I took the class last month, I
believe that he drilled about 1.5"-2.0" core from the inside, then filled
with flox. Basically duplicating how the front belt attach points are
constructed.
Was your TC recommending you put a plate on top of the canopy?
bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 9:23 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Shoulder Harness Hardpoint
<rvbuilder@sausen.net>
I talked to my TC a while back about this subject and while he isn't a
composite guy, he thought that it made more sense to make the hardpoint on
the exterior or the cabin top. I planned to look into it more once I got to
that point but this seems to be a good time to discuss.
So what do the composite guys like Gary and Dave think? In adding a hard
point for seatbelts to the canopy should it be from the inside or outside?
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Marz
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 7:47 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Shoulder Harness Hardpoint
I am wondering if the hard-point for the shoulder harness connection
needs to be reinforced or have a washer added on top, so it will work
when needed. Any thoughts?
Barry Marz
18735 Baseleg AVE.
FT. Myers, Fl 33917
239-567-2271
blalmarz@embarqmail.com
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 2923 (20080305) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 2923 (20080305) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Another lesson with windows |
Printer (like in printing press) suppliers can supply 95%. You should be able
to get a gallon for almost nothing.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
Fuselage SB
(N410GB reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167808#167808
Message 9
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| Subject: | Shoulder Harness Hardpoint |
The flox method is fairly common and the easiest way to go. The question is,
do you drill it out from the outside or from the inside as most have done. Seems
that you would retain more of the inherent strength of the structure against
a pull out if it was done from the exterior.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 8:59 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Shoulder Harness Hardpoint
If I recall what Dave Saylor did to his, when I took the class last month, I
believe that he drilled about 1.5"-2.0" core from the inside, then filled
with flox. Basically duplicating how the front belt attach points are
constructed.
Was your TC recommending you put a plate on top of the canopy?
bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 9:23 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Shoulder Harness Hardpoint
<rvbuilder@sausen.net>
I talked to my TC a while back about this subject and while he isn't a
composite guy, he thought that it made more sense to make the hardpoint on
the exterior or the cabin top. I planned to look into it more once I got to
that point but this seems to be a good time to discuss.
So what do the composite guys like Gary and Dave think? In adding a hard
point for seatbelts to the canopy should it be from the inside or outside?
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Marz
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 7:47 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Shoulder Harness Hardpoint
I am wondering if the hard-point for the shoulder harness connection
needs to be reinforced or have a washer added on top, so it will work
when needed. Any thoughts?
Barry Marz
18735 Baseleg AVE.
FT. Myers, Fl 33917
239-567-2271
blalmarz@embarqmail.com
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 2923 (20080305) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 2923 (20080305) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Shoulder Harness Hardpoint |
I think that we are missing the engineering that went into the design of the
hard point built into the current structure. Typically the foam is removed
in the area around the hole and filled with reinforcing material like
chopped fiber or flox. This is the same thing that the Glasair folks do.
This structure is sufficient to hold the shoulder harness.
Additionally, fiberglass structures are meant to flex long before they
break. Remember the wing on the Voyager during take off. By putting a
metal washer on the outside of the structure you are creating a failure
point at the outer edge. Think of it like this. If you took a one foot
long tube and slid it over your fiberglass/graphite fishing rod and flexed
it close to the failure point, it would fail prematurely at the end of the
tube because it was not allowed to flex inside the tube.
IMHO no additional structure is needed for the harness.
Gary
40274
It is all together, now what?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 9:23 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Shoulder Harness Hardpoint
<rvbuilder@sausen.net>
I talked to my TC a while back about this subject and while he isn't a
composite guy, he thought that it made more sense to make the hardpoint on
the exterior or the cabin top. I planned to look into it more once I got to
that point but this seems to be a good time to discuss.
So what do the composite guys like Gary and Dave think? In adding a hard
point for seatbelts to the canopy should it be from the inside or outside?
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Marz
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 7:47 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Shoulder Harness Hardpoint
I am wondering if the hard-point for the shoulder harness connection
needs to be reinforced or have a washer added on top, so it will work
when needed. Any thoughts?
Barry Marz
18735 Baseleg AVE.
FT. Myers, Fl 33917
239-567-2271
blalmarz@embarqmail.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Shoulder Harness Hardpoint |
FWIW I agree with Gary 100%. The area is already beefed up and if I
remember correctly the points were solid glass with no foam. I was starting
to wonder if folks were talking about additional points for a different
harness system. Provided that's not the case, I think the structure is good
to go as is.
Marcus
40286
Just about to hit 250 hours and loving it.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:41 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Shoulder Harness Hardpoint
I think that we are missing the engineering that went into the design of the
hard point built into the current structure. Typically the foam is removed
in the area around the hole and filled with reinforcing material like
chopped fiber or flox. This is the same thing that the Glasair folks do.
This structure is sufficient to hold the shoulder harness.
Additionally, fiberglass structures are meant to flex long before they
break. Remember the wing on the Voyager during take off. By putting a
metal washer on the outside of the structure you are creating a failure
point at the outer edge. Think of it like this. If you took a one foot
long tube and slid it over your fiberglass/graphite fishing rod and flexed
it close to the failure point, it would fail prematurely at the end of the
tube because it was not allowed to flex inside the tube.
IMHO no additional structure is needed for the harness.
Gary
40274
It is all together, now what?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 9:23 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Shoulder Harness Hardpoint
<rvbuilder@sausen.net>
I talked to my TC a while back about this subject and while he isn't a
composite guy, he thought that it made more sense to make the hardpoint on
the exterior or the cabin top. I planned to look into it more once I got to
that point but this seems to be a good time to discuss.
So what do the composite guys like Gary and Dave think? In adding a hard
point for seatbelts to the canopy should it be from the inside or outside?
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Marz
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 7:47 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Shoulder Harness Hardpoint
I am wondering if the hard-point for the shoulder harness connection
needs to be reinforced or have a washer added on top, so it will work
when needed. Any thoughts?
Barry Marz
18735 Baseleg AVE.
FT. Myers, Fl 33917
239-567-2271
blalmarz@embarqmail.com
Message 12
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| Subject: | Shoulder Harness Hardpoint |
The flox method may be common and while it is stronger than epoxy alone, if you
read section 49, the Seats & Seat Belt section of the plans, the seat-belt hard-points
are NOT filled with flox. According to page 49-02 "These hard points
are a solid lay-up of glass (they contain no core material), and appear lighter
than the surrounding area." If you want to make additional hard-points, to
duplicate the hard-points for the front seats you should use lay-up of fiberglass
NOT flox.
I will be putting 3 Point harness in the rear and will use a Dremel to remove the
core material and to then rebuild with layers of fiberglass.
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those
who matter don't mind."
-- Dr. Suess
-------- Original Message --------
>
> The flox method is fairly common and the easiest way to go. The question is,
do you drill it out from the outside or from the inside as most have done.
Seems that you would retain more of the inherent strength of the structure against
a pull out if it was done from the exterior.
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 8:59 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Shoulder Harness Hardpoint
>
>
> If I recall what Dave Saylor did to his, when I took the class last month, I
> believe that he drilled about 1.5"-2.0" core from the inside, then filled
> with flox. Basically duplicating how the front belt attach points are
> constructed.
>
> Was your TC recommending you put a plate on top of the canopy?
>
> bob
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
> (Michael Sausen)
> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 9:23 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Shoulder Harness Hardpoint
>
> <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
>
> I talked to my TC a while back about this subject and while he isn't a
> composite guy, he thought that it made more sense to make the hardpoint on
> the exterior or the cabin top. I planned to look into it more once I got to
> that point but this seems to be a good time to discuss.
>
> So what do the composite guys like Gary and Dave think? In adding a hard
> point for seatbelts to the canopy should it be from the inside or outside?
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Marz
> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 7:47 AM
> To: RV10-List Digest Server
> Subject: RV10-List: Shoulder Harness Hardpoint
>
>
> I am wondering if the hard-point for the shoulder harness connection
> needs to be reinforced or have a washer added on top, so it will work
> when needed. Any thoughts?
>
> Barry Marz
> 18735 Baseleg AVE.
> FT. Myers, Fl 33917
> 239-567-2271
> blalmarz@embarqmail.com
Message 13
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We have decided to camp at OSH this year. Are any plans developing to get
spots in Camp Scholler or park the 10s together in airplane camping?
Message 14
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Yes, there should be a large contingent of us there. Bob and Gary have
already started talking about RV-10 HQ 2008. Hopefully they'll get there
early and stake out our sites again this year. I'm sure there will also be
a few in airplane parking.
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 10:04 PM
Subject: RV10-List: OSH
We have decided to camp at OSH this year. Are any plans developing to get
spots in Camp Scholler or park the 10s together in airplane camping?
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 2925 (20080305) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
Message 15
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Bob Leffler wrote:
> Yes, there should be a large contingent of us there. Bob and Gary
> have already started talking about RV-10 HQ 2008. Hopefully they'll
> get there early and stake out our sites again this year. I'm sure
> there will also be a few in airplane parking.
>
Sun-N-Fun in Lakeland is coming up next month ...... anyone doing a
corral for that???
Linn
do not archive
Message 16
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Gary and I plan on doing essentially the same thing as last year, only
question is exactly what day we'll "claim our ground". The past couple
of years we've gotten the sites on the Tuesday before opening weekend.
For some reason last year there were a lot more people there early and
combined with the 20 or so RV-10 spots, we wound up with the spread out
a little. After we get into April I'll take a poll and then post
exactly what we're doing.
Bob
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 7:04 PM
Subject: RV10-List: OSH
We have decided to camp at OSH this year. Are any plans developing to
get spots in Camp Scholler or park the 10s together in airplane camping?
Message 17
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Hi Guys
My wife & I are hoping to be at Osh for the first time this year.
However, for weight reasons we are not able to bring any camping gear.
We would love to stay on the field with everyone else, rather than a
hotel miles away (probably fully booked by now anyhow). Does any one
know how we could hire a tent or something for a couple of days? We
plan on arriving on the Monday, but have to leave Thurs AM. I presume
there is somewhere to wash, & I'm sure food won't be a problem.
We are really looking forward to meeting so many of you that we have
emailed / talked to over the last year or so.
Neil & Sarah
ZK-RVT
On 6 Mar 2008, at 17:00, Bob Leffler wrote:
> Yes, there should be a large contingent of us there.-- Bob and
Gary
> have already started talking about RV-10 HQ 2008.- Hopefully they=92ll
> get there early and stake out our sites again this year.- I=92m sure
> there will also be a few in airplane parking.
> -
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David
> McNeill
> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 10:04 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: OSH
> -
> We- have decided to camp at OSH this year. Are any plans developing
to
> get spots in Camp Scholler or park the 10s together in airplane
> camping?
> -
> -
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> -
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature database 2925 (20080305) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature database 2925 (20080305) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
>
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