Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:42 AM - wing root fairing support, Bad Part??? (Bob-tcw)
2. 06:57 AM - Re: What did I do wrong? (PJ Seipel)
3. 08:22 AM - Silpruf / Window Installation and other magic (Les Kearney)
4. 10:13 AM - Re: What did I do wrong? (neil)
5. 12:02 PM - Re: wing root fairing support, Bad Part??? (David McNeill)
6. 01:42 PM - New to list (Brian Rodgers)
7. 02:19 PM - Re: Door fit (Richard Reynolds)
8. 06:51 PM - Garmin Avionics stack question (Chris)
9. 07:19 PM - Re: Garmin Avionics stack question (Jesse Saint)
10. 07:34 PM - Re: Garmin Avionics stack question (Tim Olson)
11. 07:49 PM - Re: Garmin Avionics stack question (McGANN, Ron)
12. 07:51 PM - Re: Garmin Avionics stack question (Rene)
13. 08:03 PM - Re: Garmin Avionics stack question (William Curtis)
14. 08:36 PM - Re: New to list (Rick Sked)
15. 08:48 PM - Re: Silpruf / Window Installation and other magic (Rick Sked)
16. 09:13 PM - Re: Silpruf / Window Installation and other magic (Les Kearney)
Message 1
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| Subject: | wing root fairing support, Bad Part??? |
I'm working on Page 44-2, the wing root fairing supports F-1099EFG-L
and F-1099EFG-R, I believe I have a bad part and could use some help
identifying the good part. The part (F-1099EFG) has an L shaped
angle with one flange being about .750" wide and the other .640" wide.
The parts I received are NOT mirror images of each other. One part
has the holes punched in the .750" flange, the other in the .640"
flange.
This effects the height of the support of the wing root fairing and
pretty clearly one of these is wrong. Can anyone tell me which
flange the holes should be punched in so I can tell Van's which one they
need to send me and in the mean time fit up the good part I do have.
My guess currently is the pre punched holes are on the .750 flange
that mates up to the fuselage per steps 2 and 3 on page 44-2.
Thanks for the help,
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies
www.tcwtech.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: What did I do wrong? |
That's an awesome paint job! Got any more pictures?
PJ Seipel
RV-10 #40032
do not archive
neil wrote:
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Silpruf / Window Installation and other magic |
Hi
One the strength of Dave Saylor's recommendation and other comments, I
purchased the AirlinkTech video on using Silpruf to set install windows. The
video can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/2ndhr9
I watched the video last night and have a few comments, FWIW.
First, a big negative - it's on a VHS tape not on a DVD. After that it was a
very nice "how to" video.
In short the process used is to mask the windows and then set them in place
on small Silpruf standoffs that keep the windows flush with the canopy. A
bead of Silpuf is used to install the windows. Screw on clecos are used to
keep everything in pace while things dry.
The video is very detailed and shows everything required, step by step. It
explains how and why to mask the windows to get a nice sharp reveal. It also
shows how to trim the windows for a perfect fit.
A groove (about 1/8") is left between the windows and the canopy. After
painting, Silpruf is used to fill the groove. Apparently Silpruf cannot be
painted so you must pick a Silpuf colour that works with your pain scheme.
At first blush there seems to be some obvious advantages to this method they
being:
* The Silpruf has a long working time so you don't have to play
"beat the clock" when installing.
* The Silpruf is non reactive so you can use normal masking tape to
setup the "reveal" edges. You will have lots of time to get everything just
right before you have to remove the masks.
* The Silpruf is flexible so there won't be cracks in the paint /
caulking around the windows
* In the event that a window needs to be replaced. It would be a
much easier job to remove & replace the window *I think*.
* You are not glassing onto a window with all the associated issues
with sanding etc. As someone mentioned in an earlier post, with windows you
can't fix a screw up with an OOPS rivet.
* Before curing and after, excess along the groove can be easily
removed.
A quick search shows that Silpruf is available in a wide choice of colours
including: White, Black, Limestone, Light Grey, Aluminium, GreyDark, Grey,
Precast White and Bronze.
Right after I watched the video I checked the plans to see how the front
window is installed. My recollection was there was no "joggle" at the bottom
of the front windscreen. Using Silpruf on the front windscreen would, I
think, require building a joggle and then trimming the window to fit. I just
noticed that Dave noted this rework in one of his posts as well.
The video is very detailed and shows everything required, step by step. It
explains how and why to mask the windows to get a nice sharp reveal. It also
shows how to trim the windows for a perfect fit. If you are contemplating
using this method, get the video, it is well worth the cost.
Anyway, I for one plan to use this method on the side windows. I still have
a lot of time to contemplate the front windscreen...
Cheers
Les Kearney
#40643 - moving from rivets to systems
C-GCWZ
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: What did I do wrong? |
Probably the best we have is at:-
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled/Van's-RV-10/1331313
Neil
On 17 Mar 2008, at 1:55, PJ Seipel wrote:
>
> That's an awesome paint job! Got any more pictures?
>
> PJ Seipel
> RV-10 #40032
> do not archive
>
> neil wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | wing root fairing support, Bad Part??? |
you do have a bad part; I had one also the left one bad , right was OK. and
Van's saw and shipped a new part the part was bent wrong and holes do not
line up even when properly shaped. Also heights do not match top fairing.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob-tcw
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 6:39 AM
Subject: RV10-List: wing root fairing support, Bad Part???
I'm working on Page 44-2, the wing root fairing supports F-1099EFG-L and
F-1099EFG-R, I believe I have a bad part and could use some help
identifying the good part. The part (F-1099EFG) has an L shaped angle
with one flange being about .750" wide and the other .640" wide. The
parts I received are NOT mirror images of each other. One part has the
holes punched in the .750" flange, the other in the .640" flange.
This effects the height of the support of the wing root fairing and pretty
clearly one of these is wrong. Can anyone tell me which flange the holes
should be punched in so I can tell Van's which one they need to send me and
in the mean time fit up the good part I do have. My guess currently is
the pre punched holes are on the .750 flange that mates up to the fuselage
per steps 2 and 3 on page 44-2.
Thanks for the help,
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies
www.tcwtech.com
Message 6
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Any one from Long Island NY? I own a piper 235 pathfinder now and plan on building
a RV10 in a few years. Just waiting to buy a house with a garage. In the mean
time I am just doing my research.
Thank you
Brian Rodgers
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Message 7
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Apple-Mail-42--238489084
Apple-Mail-43--238489077--
Message 8
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| Subject: | Garmin Avionics stack question |
In planning my panel , I will have a garmin 430, sl30, gtx327, and gma
340, looking at the lengths of everything if I stack them in said order
top to bottom I will be able to see the back of the tubes on each unit
looking up from the floor. Would this be ok. I am not use to any
particular order. Plus having the 430 on top puts its sreen up where I
can see it. Just thought this arrangment might be handy down the road if
I have maintenance issues looking working under/behind the panel.
Thoughts??
Chris Lucas
#40072
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin Avionics stack question |
First of all, I may recommend one of the PMA audio panels over the
Garmin, but they are a little more expensive. Second, while it is
true that the audio panel is shorter from front to back, the shape of
the tray is very conducive to putting it at the top of the stack.
With the way the wires come out of it, there won't be much (if
anything) you can do on it from underneath the panel. The best way to
access them, IMHO is to leave a little bit of a service loop in the
back so you can pull the stack out of the panel and make any changes.
The main thing I have seen the need to do from under the panel is to
remove and replace antenna wires, which would work whether you put the
430 at the top or the 340 at the top. FWIW, working on your back
under the panel is extremely uncomfortable and difficult. Planning a
way to access things from the front, especially by making the panel in
more than one piece so you can pull out one part at a time to work
behind others, is my preferred way to install.
Though possibly a little bit unconventional, I prefer to wire the
radio stack instruments together and use aluminum angle to hold them
together, and then use nutplates and screws to hold them to the
instrument panel. I prefer this because it makes it a lot easier to
remove the rest of the panel to allow work to be done on the radio
stack or things/wires in the sub-panel area.
As John Cox always says, part of the building process is thinking
through and planning for the maintenance procedures, which is exactly
what you are doing. In summary, planning a way to access things from
the front would be my recommendation instead of planning to work on
them from underneath.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Mar 16, 2008, at 9:48 PM, Chris wrote:
> In planning my panel , I will have a garmin 430, sl30, gtx327, and
> gma 340, looking at the lengths of everything if I stack them in
> said order top to bottom I will be able to see the back of the tubes
> on each unit looking up from the floor. Would this be ok. I am not
> use to any particular order. Plus having the 430 on top puts its
> sreen up where I can see it. Just thought this arrangment might be
> handy down the road if I have maintenance issues looking working
> under/behind the panel. Thoughts??
>
> Chris Lucas
> #40072
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin Avionics stack question |
You'll probably want the shortest on top if you want a center stack,
because of the center rib. Other than that, I could work if
you mount it off center.
Personally, I'd go for a PS Engineering audio panel before the GMA340.
They've got about the best support there is out there.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Chris wrote:
> In planning my panel , I will have a garmin 430, sl30, gtx327, and gma
> 340, looking at the lengths of everything if I stack them in said order
> top to bottom I will be able to see the back of the tubes on each unit
> looking up from the floor. Would this be ok. I am not use to any
> particular order. Plus having the 430 on top puts its sreen up where I
> can see it. Just thought this arrangment might be handy down the road if
> I have maintenance issues looking working under/behind the panel. Thoughts??
>
> Chris Lucas
> #40072
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Garmin Avionics stack question |
Hey Chris,
I have the same stack as yourself. My layout has the 340 on top, 430,
sl30 and the GTX-327. Here is what I found during install:
1. the 430 and the SL-30 extend beyond the subpanel and require a
penetration. Subsequent routing of the 430/sl-30 loom to the 340/327
and panel instruments is a PITA.
2. although the 327 fits in the panel/subpanel gap, I still needed to
install a 90deg BNC connector to the antenna. Had the 327 not been on
the bottom, this would have been a pain.
3. I have the panel divided into Pilot/stack/copilot segments as
suggested by Jesse and it works well.
4. I have a sufficiently large service loop to allow the stack
segment to be brought forward for access to the connectors.
5. My power and EFIS/avionics (3xGRT and EIS, CDI, T&B, A/P etc) data
looms are laid out on the aft side of the subpanel (ie facing the pilot)
for easy access.
Planning the panel wiring for ease of maintenance is something that
takes time, but it is well worth it when you find that you omitted a
connection during final checkout!
cheers,
Ron
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Sent: Monday, 17 March 2008 12:18 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Garmin Avionics stack question
In planning my panel , I will have a garmin 430, sl30, gtx327,
and gma 340, looking at the lengths of everything if I stack them in
said order top to bottom I will be able to see the back of the tubes on
each unit looking up from the floor. Would this be ok. I am not use to
any particular order. Plus having the 430 on top puts its sreen up where
I can see it. Just thought this arrangment might be handy down the road
if I have maintenance issues looking working under/behind the panel.
Thoughts??
Chris Lucas
#40072
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Garmin Avionics stack question |
Chris, Stein built my panel using his three piece panel that is an inch or
so taller. I have a PS engineering audio panel, DVD/Radio, 430, sl30, 327
and GRT EIS all in one stack. I agree with Jesse, no way I want to do any
work from under the panel. I had to do some rewiring myself and even being
able to pull the center section out a ways, it was still difficult. From
under the panel it was impossible. If I remember right the SL30 is the
deepest item...center rib considerations.
Rene'
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 7:48 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Garmin Avionics stack question
In planning my panel , I will have a garmin 430, sl30, gtx327, and gma 340,
looking at the lengths of everything if I stack them in said order top to
bottom I will be able to see the back of the tubes on each unit looking up
from the floor. Would this be ok. I am not use to any particular order.
Plus having the 430 on top puts its sreen up where I can see it. Just
thought this arrangment might be handy down the road if I have maintenance
issues looking working under/behind the panel. Thoughts??
Chris Lucas
#40072
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin Avionics stack question |
I'd think you would want the shortest on the bottom since you only have 9.5" of
depth before you have to cut into the secondary panel. Having the longer radios
on the bottom will require you cut into the secondary panel too close to the
bottom edge reducing it's strength. Cutting the secondary panel 2" from the
bottom makes the bottom 1 1/4" of the panel only usable for radios shorter than
9.5".
Also, Jessie, I understand using nutplates in the angle makes removal of the trays
easier. Certainly this is better than the screws and nylon lock-nut that
I've seen on many installations. Whenever those trays using the lock-nuts have
to be removed, reinstallation will be a royal pain. Short of using something
like Radiorax, the standard convention is to use Floating Clipnuts. Clipnuts
even came with my PS-8000B audio panel.
Because the audio panel is so short (6"), I've actually moved it to the left of
the stack so that I would have to cut less of the secondary panel.
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/91Panel/index.html
Here is a picture of the forward fuselage secondary panel modifications formy instruments.
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/08fuselage/fuselage31q.html
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
-------- Original Message --------
>
> You'll probably want the shortest on top if you want a center stack,
> because of the center rib. Other than that, I could work if
> you mount it off center.
>
> Personally, I'd go for a PS Engineering audio panel before the GMA340.
> They've got about the best support there is out there.
>
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Chris wrote:
> > In planning my panel , I will have a garmin 430, sl30, gtx327, and gma
> > 340, looking at the lengths of everything if I stack them in said order
> > top to bottom I will be able to see the back of the tubes on each unit
> > looking up from the floor. Would this be ok. I am not use to any
> > particular order. Plus having the 430 on top puts its sreen up where I
> > can see it. Just thought this arrangment might be handy down the road if
> > I have maintenance issues looking working under/behind the panel. Thoughts??
> >
> > Chris Lucas
> > #40072
Message 14
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Originally a South Jersey Boy...now Las Vegas. But the list makes us all in the
same living room...welcome aboard. We wpon't hold that Longed Igland accent against
ya!!
Rick Sked
40185
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Rodgers" <airphoto177@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 1:38:08 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: New to list
Any one from Long Island NY? I own a piper 235 pathfinder now and plan on building
a RV10 in a few years. Just waiting to buy a house with a garage. In the mean
time I am just doing my research.
Thank you
Brian Rodgers
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Silpruf / Window Installation and other magic |
Les,
Are you suggesting to install the front windsheild with this method? I am u
sing Silpruf on the doors and cabin=C2-glass=C2-but plan to follow plan
s on the windscreen... If anyone gets the chance to check out a Cirrus, you
will see similar install on their windows. just a bead of adhesive seperat
ing the window from the composite. Looks really clean, if ya'll do it right
.....would love to check out that video...just too poor from buying the Sil
pruf. And Les is right...it's high performance silicone, you couldn't paint
it if you tried. The big trick is to get the gap as uniform as possible pr
ior to the install. If you use Dave's method it works well. After paint you
fill the gap...I'm shooting for less than an 1/8th, closer to 3/32 to a 1/
16th with the silpruf. leave the bead to dry then a sharp razor to trim the
bead flush,=C2-should leave you a nice clean line between the plexi and
the composite top.
Rick Sked
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "Les Kearney" <kearney@shaw.ca>
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 8:18:32 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Silpruf / Window Installation and other magic
Hi
One the strength of Dave Saylor's recommendation and other comments, I purc
hased the AirlinkTech video on using Silpruf to set install windows. The vi
deo can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/2ndhr9
I watched the video last night and have a few comments, FWIW.
First, a big negative - it=99s on a VHS tape not on a DVD. After that
it was a very nice "how to" video.
In short the process used is to mask the windows and then set them in place
on small Silpruf standoffs that keep the windows flush with the canopy. A
bead of Silpuf is used to install the windows. Screw on clecos are used to
keep everything in pace while things dry.
The video is very detailed and shows everything required, step by step. It
explains how and why to mask the windows to get a nice sharp reveal. It als
o shows how to trim the windows for a perfect fit.
A groove (about 1/8") is left between the windows and the canopy. After pai
nting, Silpruf is used to fill the groove. =C2-Apparently Silpruf cannot
be painted so you must pick a Silpuf colour that works with your pain schem
e.
At first blush there seems to be some obvious advantages to this method the
y being:
=C2=B7 =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- The Silpruf has a l
ong working time so you don=99t have to play =9Cbeat the clock
=9D when installing.
=C2=B7 =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- The Silpruf is non
reactive so you can use normal masking tape to setup the =9Creveal
=9D edges. You will have lots of time to get everything just right befor
e you have to remove the masks.
=C2=B7 =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- The Silpruf is flex
ible so there won=99t be cracks in the paint / caulking around the wi
ndows
=C2=B7 =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- In the event that a
window needs to be replaced. It would be a much easier job to remove & rep
lace the window * I think *.
=C2=B7 =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- You are not glassin
g onto a window with all the associated issues with sanding etc. As someone
mentioned in an earlier post, with windows you can=99t fix a screw u
p with an OOPS rivet.
=C2=B7 =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Before curing and a
fter, excess along the groove can be easily removed.
A quick search shows that Silpruf is available in a wide choice of colours
including: White, Black, Limestone, Light Grey, Aluminium, GreyDark, Grey,
Precast White and Bronze.
Right after I watched the video I checked the plans to see how the front wi
ndow is installed. My recollection was there was no =9Cjoggle
=9D at the bottom of the front windscreen. Using Silpruf on the front winds
creen would, I think, require building a joggle and then trimming the windo
w to fit. I just noticed that Dave noted this rework in one of his posts as
well.
The video is very detailed and shows everything required, step by step. It
explains how and why to mask the windows to get a nice sharp reveal. It als
o shows how to trim the windows for a perfect fit. If you are contemplating
using this method, get the video, it is well worth the cost.
Anyway, I for one plan to use this method on the side windows. I still have
a lot of time to contemplate the front windscreen..
Cheers
Les Kearney
#40643 =93 moving from rivets to systems
C-GCWZ
====
=======================
==
Message 16
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| Subject: | Silpruf / Window Installation and other magic |
Rick
Buy the video. Sell the kids if you have to raise the cash. There are a few
tricks that make it worth the $30. Especially getting the gap spot on
perfect.
As far as the wind screen is concerned, I would like to use this method but
as a rank amateur, I am not sure I want to be the first to try. I bet that
piece of plexi is not cheap.
Cheers
Les
#40643
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked
Sent: March-16-08 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Silpruf / Window Installation and other magic
Les,
Are you suggesting to install the front windsheild with this method? I am
using Silpruf on the doors and cabin glass but plan to follow plans on the
windscreen... If anyone gets the chance to check out a Cirrus, you will see
similar install on their windows. just a bead of adhesive seperating the
window from the composite. Looks really clean, if ya'll do it
right.....would love to check out that video...just too poor from buying the
Silpruf. And Les is right...it's high performance silicone, you couldn't
paint it if you tried. The big trick is to get the gap as uniform as
possible prior to the install. If you use Dave's method it works well. After
paint you fill the gap...I'm shooting for less than an 1/8th, closer to 3/32
to a 1/16th with the silpruf. leave the bead to dry then a sharp razor to
trim the bead flush, should leave you a nice clean line between the plexi
and the composite top.
Rick Sked
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "Les Kearney" <kearney@shaw.ca>
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 8:18:32 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Silpruf / Window Installation and other magic
Hi
One the strength of Dave Saylor's recommendation and other comments, I
purchased the AirlinkTech video on using Silpruf to set install windows. The
video can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/2ndhr9
I watched the video last night and have a few comments, FWIW.
First, a big negative - it's on a VHS tape not on a DVD. After that it was a
very nice "how to" video.
In short the process used is to mask the windows and then set them in place
on small Silpruf standoffs that keep the windows flush with the canopy. A
bead of Silpuf is used to install the windows. Screw on clecos are used to
keep everything in pace while things dry.
The video is very detailed and shows everything required, step by step. It
explains how and why to mask the windows to get a nice sharp reveal. It also
shows how to trim the windows for a perfect fit.
A groove (about 1/8") is left between the windows and the canopy. After
painting, Silpruf is used to fill the groove. Apparently Silpruf cannot be
painted so you must pick a Silpuf colour that works with your pain scheme.
At first blush there seems to be some obvious advantages to this method they
being:
* The Silpruf has a long working time so you don't have to play
"beat the clock" when installing.
* The Silpruf is non reactive so you can use normal masking tape to
setup the "reveal" edges. You will have lots of time to get everything just
right before you have to remove the masks.
* The Silpruf is flexible so there won't be cracks in the paint /
caulking around the windows
* In the event that a window needs to be replaced. It would be a
much easier job to remove & replace the window *I think*.
* You are not glassing onto a window with all the associated issues
with sanding etc. As someone mentioned in an earlier post, with windows you
can't fix a screw up with an OOPS rivet.
* Before curing and after, excess along the groove can be easily
removed.
A quick search shows that Silpruf is available in a wide choice of colours
including: White, Black, Limestone, Light Grey, Aluminium, GreyDark, Grey,
Precast White and Bronze.
Right after I watched the video I checked the plans to see how the front
window is installed. My recollection was there was no "joggle" at the bottom
of the front windscreen. Using Silpruf on the front windscreen would, I
think, require building a joggle and then trimming the window to fit. I just
noticed that Dave noted this rework in one of his posts as well.
The video is very detailed and shows everything required, step by step. It
explains how and why to mask the windows to get a nice sharp reveal. It also
shows how to trim the windows for a perfect fit. If you are contemplating
using this method, get the video, it is well worth the cost.
Anyway, I for one plan to use this method on the side windows. I still have
a lot of time to contemplate the front windscreen...
Cheers
Les Kearney
#40643 - moving from rivets to systems
C-GCWZ
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