Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:14 AM - Re: Another fatal crash.... (rv10builder)
2. 04:13 AM - Re: The King has no Clothes (Tim Olson)
3. 06:36 AM - Door handles (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
4. 07:13 AM - Re: Door handles and locks (Pascal)
5. 07:45 AM - Re: AFS Systems (Pascal)
6. 07:50 AM - Engraving Name Plate (Roger Standley)
7. 07:55 AM - Re: Door handles (David McNeill)
8. 08:07 AM - Re: Engraving Name Plate (Rob Kermanj)
9. 08:25 AM - door safety latch ()
10. 08:32 AM - Re: The King has no Clothes (Pascal)
11. 08:32 AM - Re: Door handles and locks (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
12. 08:41 AM - GRT HX (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
13. 10:07 AM - Re: AFS Systems (Jesse Saint)
14. 10:36 AM - P-Mag! (Jesse Saint)
15. 10:36 AM - Re: was Door separation now Door Locks / Door Handles (Robin Marks)
16. 10:47 AM - Re: GRT HX (Robin Marks)
17. 10:51 AM - Engine stop tests. (Neil & Sarah Colliver)
18. 11:02 AM - Re: P-Mag! (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
19. 11:14 AM - Re: AFS Systems (Pascal)
20. 11:23 AM - Re: Engine stop tests. (John W. Cox)
21. 11:43 AM - Re: Engine stop tests. (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
22. 12:22 PM - Re: GRT HX (GRANSCOTT@aol.com)
23. 12:25 PM - Re: Engine stop tests. (Neil & Sarah Colliver)
24. 12:43 PM - Re: Engine stop tests. (Doerr, Ray R [NTK])
25. 01:11 PM - Re: Engine stop tests. (Neil & Sarah Colliver)
26. 01:20 PM - Re: Engine stop tests. (Tim Olson)
27. 01:47 PM - Re: Engine stop tests. (Neil & Sarah Colliver)
28. 01:57 PM - Re: Engine stop tests. (John Jessen)
29. 02:10 PM - Re: Engine stop tests. (Tim Olson)
30. 02:32 PM - Re: AFS Systems (Bob Leffler)
31. 02:57 PM - Re: AFS Systems (John W. Cox)
32. 03:10 PM - Re: GRT HX (Robin Marks)
33. 03:21 PM - Re: AFS Systems (John Jessen)
34. 03:24 PM - Re: P-Mag! (Nick Leonard)
35. 04:24 PM - NVFR avionics help (Chris and Susie McGough)
36. 04:47 PM - Re: Engine stop tests. (Marcus Cooper)
37. 04:49 PM - Re: NVFR avionics help (Kelly McMullen)
38. 04:56 PM - Re: NVFR avionics help (Marcus Cooper)
39. 05:07 PM - Re: NVFR avionics help (McGANN, Ron)
40. 05:11 PM - RV Grin (gary)
41. 05:12 PM - Re: NVFR avionics help (John Jessen)
42. 05:23 PM - Re: RV Grin (Chris and Susie McGough)
43. 05:23 PM - Re: [RVs_in_Aus] NVFR avionics help (Richard Talbot)
44. 05:25 PM - Re: RV Grin (John Jessen)
45. 05:29 PM - Re: NVFR avionics help (Chris and Susie McGough)
46. 05:29 PM - Re: NVFR avionics help (Chris and Susie McGough)
47. 05:34 PM - Re: RV Grin (John W. Cox)
48. 05:41 PM - Re: NVFR avionics help (John Jessen)
49. 05:56 PM - Re: RV Grin (Tim Olson)
50. 06:09 PM - Re: GRT HX (Chris)
51. 06:12 PM - Re: GRT HX (Bill Schlatterer)
52. 06:18 PM - Re: Engine stop tests. (Lew Gallagher)
53. 06:23 PM - Re: RV Grin (Deems Davis)
54. 06:25 PM - Re: GRT HX (Chris)
55. 06:31 PM - Re: Re: P-Mag! (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
56. 06:34 PM - Re: RV Grin (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
57. 06:47 PM - Re: RV Grin (Robin Marks)
58. 07:03 PM - Garmin 1000 additions (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
59. 07:29 PM - Re: Garmin 1000 additions (Tim Olson)
60. 07:46 PM - Re: Re: P-Mag! (Jesse Saint)
61. 07:51 PM - Re: RV Grin (Jesse Saint)
62. 08:06 PM - Re: NVFR avionics help (David McNeill)
63. 08:08 PM - Re: RV Grin (John Testement)
64. 08:10 PM - Air field flow for the 10 (bob.kaufmann)
65. 08:58 PM - Re: NVFR avionics help (David Maib)
66. 09:02 PM - Re: RV Grin (David Maib)
67. 10:04 PM - Re: The King has no Clothes (AirMike)
68. 10:08 PM - Re: RV Grin (AirMike)
69. 10:19 PM - Re: Re: The King has no Clothes (Chris and Susie McGough)
70. 10:41 PM - Re: NVFR avionics help (AirMike)
71. 11:17 PM - Re: Re: NVFR avionics help (Chris and Susie McGough)
72. 11:32 PM - Re: Re: The King has no Clothes (John Ackerman)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Another fatal crash.... |
Hamilton Cartwright was my tech counselor. He was as nice as they
come...please pray for their families.
Brian Sutherland
Nashville, TN
N104BS
Phase 1 11.5 hours
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
>
> Anyone know who this is?
>
> http://www.wsfa.com/global/story.asp?s=8132249
>
> http://wtvm.com/Global/story.asp?S=8130777
>
> http://www.wztv.com/template/inews_wire/wires.regional.tn/35d58e13-www.fox17.com.shtml
>
>
>
> .
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: The King has no Clothes |
I'm not saying I know how the plane was damaged, but what I heard
from a reliable source that was a firsthand source, was that the
plane was landed hard with that 4G landing, prior to the door
departure flight. If and how those events are tied together, is
all speculation. But, things like the cracking in front of
the windshield, and popped rivets under the wing, and cracked
wheel fairings and leg fairings would seem to indicate at least
something significant happened to that plane only a couple of
flight hours before the door came off. Not sure how the events
may or may not relate, but it would be nice if the story actually
happened that way that it was presented that way, right?
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Dave Leikam wrote:
>
> Tim,
> Are you suggesting that the hard landing damage may have caused the
> later door failure?
>
> Dave Leikam
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@myrv10.com>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 10:36 PM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: The King has no Clothes
>
>
>>
>> One thing I'm not quite sure I understand about the initial posting
>> origination and that website. Not sure that it matters but...
>> From information that is pretty reliable that I have been told,
>> the person who posted the thread and page about that door separation
>> on 416EC isn't actually the person who was flying the plane at the
>> time, although that information isn't being presented. The other
>> perhaps stranger bit of left out information is that the 4G landing
>> that was described actually happened on a landing prior to the
>> door separation, and presumably that caused some of the cracking
>> of the airframe and popped rivets under the wing and such. Also,
>> the gear leg fairings and wheel fairings were crunched pretty good.
>> So considering there was so much other damage that would not be
>> attributable to the door itself, it's a bit strange that it isn't
>> being offered up that the other damage happened prior.
>>
>> Oh well, just curious, because the source I had (yes, I've known
>> about that incident for a while now) is pretty reliable.
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> Rene Felker wrote:
>>>
>>> I added the pins after I had completed my door. Worked fine. I
>>> rechecked
>>> them this weekend after hearing about the mid air door departure and the
>>> adjustment looked fine. Per design the pins do not go all the way
>>> into the
>>> frame, they only go to the edge so that when they are extended they
>>> do not
>>> hit the side of the air frame only the metal block. In normal opening
>>> and
>>> closing I have not had the back pin go outside the guide, but I do
>>> have to
>>> "help" the passenger door sometimes to get rear pin the hole,
>>> otherwise it
>>> will just hit the edge of the block.
>>>
>>> Rene' Felker
>>> RV-10 N423CF Flying
>>> 801-721-6080
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>>> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 10:56 AM
>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: The King has no Clothes
>>>
>>>
>>> It's happened a few times now so it's not surprising to see...just
>>> that in this case the door damaged the tail, and there was much
>>> more to clean up. So yeah, it's a problem that can have more
>>> than just "I need to build a new door" repercussions. But, it's
>>> still just the same ol' problem.
>>>
>>> As far as the taper IN or taper OUT, I'm sure that their
>>> reasoning is that a taper on the outside will tend to
>>> suck the door in to alignment as the pin goes into
>>> the door post. From a ping engagement length stanpoint,
>>> this gives perhaps a little less pin length to hold the door
>>> all the way in, but the pin should have a lot of
>>> travel to it. It may ideally be that you don't want to
>>> make that taper quite as long.
>>>
>>> The pin should engage plenty, so that there's quite a
>>> bit of pin on the back side of that metal door post.
>>> Lest people think that this is a problem with the nylon
>>> blocks, it's not. Those shouldn't be part of what holds
>>> the door shut...they're just there as a guide. The
>>> pin is held by the metal door frame, so not even
>>> the fiberglass should matter much in keeping the door
>>> latched. This is NOT to say that you wouldn't be
>>> better off with the rivethead door latch pins. I don't
>>> have them, but I see that there are some good benefits
>>> to having them. Anything you can do to make it better
>>> is good.
>>>
>>> Now, on a pin adequacy as built per-plans, I really
>>> feel that if someone has problems of this sort, and they
>>> built the latches with the proper pin length and engagement,
>>> then the fault is squarely on the pilot. This sort of
>>> accident, with a properly built door/latch, that is
>>> properly secured, just would not happen. Someone has
>>> to screw up somewhere, to have an incident. This is
>>> one reason why door latches without some form of positive
>>> latching mechanism shouldn't be considered at all. The
>>> standard van's inside handles, although ugly, are actually
>>> very functional and provide a great positive latch.
>>> I actually have to make sure to instruct the passenger
>>> how to release pressure by pushing the handle down a bit
>>> so they can squeeze the thumb button. It is very
>>> solid, and just won't move a bit in flight. No,
>>> vibration won't cause it to move, and there is no
>>> way vibration and airframe flexing will release those pins.
>>> It has to have a screwup on the pilots part, or an
>>> improperly cut pin length, or a broken pin, or something
>>> of that nature.
>>>
>>> Should a secondary latching mechanism be used? Perhaps.
>>> Again, if you can do something to improve it, just like
>>> the rivethead pins, then it might not be a bad idea.
>>> But, you're going to need to do something that will
>>> latch on the forward are of the door bottom...so that
>>> the front of the door can't come out and catch the
>>> 200mph breeze. Straps just won't cut it. A solid
>>> mechanical latch would, perhaps. Is it needed? Well,
>>> it might be a good idea, but again, if you have all the
>>> pins latched right and built it well, you shouldn't have
>>> a big problem the way it is per-plans either. If
>>> someone comes up with a great kit of parts to do such
>>> a nice latch, with drawings on how to install them, and
>>> especially if you can do it as a retrofit on a flying
>>> plane, then I think they could be successful selling
>>> them.
>>>
>>> I took 4 flights this weekend and gave rides to a few
>>> various people. On every flight, I personally was
>>> the one to latch the door(s)...both of them. I was
>>> also the one to inspect the pin engagement. You can
>>> even put your fingers on the pin tips on the back pins.
>>> Considering that the pins are latched, and in place
>>> properly, and built properly, I don't live in fear that
>>> my doors are going to fly off. I'm awaiting someone
>>> else putting the rivethead system on AFTER having
>>> completed their doors, and if it goes well for them
>>> I'm considering adding them to mine. The one worry I
>>> have is that I don't particularly like only having the
>>> tips of the pins be nice and solid on those. It would
>>> be nice to have 6 or more inches of tough pin, bonded
>>> in permanently with threads and loctite, so you never
>>> have to worry about the pin tips letting loose.
>>> Still, it seems like it's a great solution that adds
>>> some security.
>>>
>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>>> do not archive
>>>
>>>
>>> John W. Cox wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Okay, no one is publically discussing the comprehensive and excellent
>>>> pictures on the door departure from N416EC. My count is over 100
>>>> followers of this documented build technique.
>>>>
>>>> Would some Articulate and Tactful builder please expand and clarify the
>>>> correct installation of door pins as directed in writing by VANS.
>>>>
>>>> Taper IN (towards the POB) or Taper OUT (towards the vast space
>>>> outside). Then secondly, the subject of adequate pin engagement in the
>>>> Jam (what is adequate?). Thirdly how to keep the pin engaged during
>>>> flight (so buffeting cannot cause the rack to move without human
>>>> assistance). And Fourth, the reasonable consideration of a Secondary
>>>> Latching mechanism to prevent catastrophic door loss.
>>>>
>>>> I know, I know my wife tells me I am already in the Dog House for even
>>>> mentioning the existence of an AFS4500 before it's time. Have a great
>>>> and informative week. I suspect those of us that do not get to go to
>>>> SNF will just keep reading the plans for answers. Tomorrow I will
>>>> hover
>>>> over the AFS website.
>>>>
>>>> John Cox
>>>> #600
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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With all the talk about the doors I've been doing some thinking regarding
the factory setup vs the aftermarket handles. I like the flush look and o
peration of the handles like Hendricks and others but the lack of a positi
ve locking detent really makes me nervous.
I also want a way to lock the doors so they can't be opened by any passerb
y. The is especially important with the TSA rumblings that all GA aircraft
must have locked doors. It's not a law yet but I wouldn't be surprised to
see it conceded to stop something bigger. Frankly having the kind of inve
stment in these aircraft that we do it's a bit silly to not have the doors
locked somehow. I know, if a thief really wants in he will get in. But a
thief also isn't going to stop at a plane with locks if a better target is
around or if it will take too long or be too noticeable to circumvent them.
So to that end someone had posted a while back a way to make a baggage do
or lock work with the standard Van's door handles. Anyone still have the l
inks to that?
Michael
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Door handles and locks |
On this topic, Isn't there another option to the locks than needing to
buy a whole magneto kit from Van's? I would like to get something local
that would allow for expansion. I would also, speaking with another
builder last week, like to consider a electric locking system that would
work with a VP200 or other remote.
Any ideas?
Thanks!
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:32 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Door handles
With all the talk about the doors I've been doing some thinking
regarding the factory setup vs the aftermarket handles. I like the
flush look and operation of the handles like Hendricks and others but
the lack of a positive locking detent really makes me nervous.
I also want a way to lock the doors so they can't be opened by any
passerby. The is especially important with the TSA rumblings that all
GA aircraft must have locked doors. It's not a law yet but I wouldn't
be surprised to see it conceded to stop something bigger. Frankly
having the kind of investment in these aircraft that we do it's a bit
silly to not have the doors locked somehow. I know, if a thief really
wants in he will get in. But a thief also isn't going to stop at a
plane with locks if a better target is around or if it will take too
long or be too noticeable to circumvent them.
So to that end someone had posted a while back a way to make a
baggage door lock work with the standard Van's door handles. Anyone
still have the links to that?
Michael
Message 5
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Jesse or anyone who has seen the AFS booth at SnF;
I Checked out the AFS site to review the new DECK, looks like a faster
CPU, better resolution, extra knob and a joystick but otherwise the same
software as the 3500.
Am I missing something to merit the extra $1700 price tag??
Can you send a review of thoughts between the 3500 and the DECK (4500)?
Thanks!
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: Jesse Saint
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: AFS Systems
I don't know the answer to that yet, but if AFS is half as smart as
they appear to be, it will be the same or very similar wiring. Dynon's
wiring for their D-180 is the same as for the D-100 and D-120 combined,
and the D-100 and D-120 have the same wiring as the D-10/D-10A's. You
know what assuming does, but let's hope it will be the same or very
similar wiring. The one thing I know about the 4500 is that they will
fit into trays instead of having the connectors attach directly to the
back of the EFIS or EMS. I just got the paperwork from Rob that they
will be giving out at Sun-N-Fun and it looks fantastic. Market share is
definitely going to be moving in their direction, IMHO.
As far as Bob's question, I have only worked with the GRT EIS, not the
EFIS, so I won't/can't speak to that. My main memory of the recent
wiring of the EIS is all of the specific resistors that need to be wired
in line with the different sensors and the number of wires that have to
be run to multiple places for the excitation voltage for sensors. On
GRT's behalf, I got the impression that they have a new EIS coming out
that will eliminate some of this. Also, the GRT allows you to use a lot
more different types of senders and to calibrate the system to read
them, but for most of the people on this list, I don't think that is as
big of a deal since most are building new planes and buying new sensors,
not trying to retrofit.
On the Sun-N-Fun note, I will plan to be there all week except Sunday,
probaby. By that time I will be pretty tired, especially since I am
just getting back home from Ecuador the day after tomorrow, and also
because my wife is due with baby #5 in 3 weeks (please no comments on
how close I am cutting that, as I already know it - but since she will
be with me at Sun-N-Fun, we may end up having the midwife just come to
the camper as long as the labor doesn't run into the curfew hours :-) ).
I will try to send reports on any new offerings or surprises or great
show specials. I don't know if we can expect an Auto Pilot offering
from Dynon yet or if we have to wait until OSH. Who knows what Garmin,
TruTrak, etc. might have up their sleeves.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Apr 2, 2008, at 6:33 PM, John W. Cox wrote:
Jesse, before answering Bob=92s question. Will your =93just
finished wiring=94 for the AFS 3500 AHRS setup allow for the AFS4500
about to be unveiled next week up the street from you?
Wiring is a biggy. If yes, then go ahead and answer Bob=92s query.
I will wait until after you have an answer. It is great to watch the
products develop and seek their place on the food chain. These are
exciting times.
John
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 2:32 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: AFS Systems
Just an FYI for those doing their own panels. I have just finished
wiring in a dual AHRS Advanced Flight System setup, which is the first
AFS system I have installed except the AOA. It is a very easy system
compared to some. It is very similar to a Dynon installation in many
ways. Way easier than the GRT EIS.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution http://forums.matronics.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 6
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| Subject: | Engraving Name Plate |
=0ADidn't I see a message sometime back about a builder who was hap
py with the engraving job he had done on a name plate for his RV-10? A
nyone remember who did the engraving or have a recommendation?
Message 7
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Another option is a ignition kill switch and an alarm. My alarm can be
triggered by mechanical shock or current drain or both. The first mechanical
shock gets a voice warning, the second sounds the alarm.For those who have
installed the door proximty switch, the other side of that circuit could be
used to trigger the alarm. I imagine an alarm on an airport ramp would get
attention unlike the mall parking lot.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:33 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Door handles
With all the talk about the doors I've been doing some thinking regarding
the factory setup vs the aftermarket handles. I like the flush look and
operation of the handles like Hendricks and others but the lack of a
positive locking detent really makes me nervous.
I also want a way to lock the doors so they can't be opened by any
passerby. The is especially important with the TSA rumblings that all GA
aircraft must have locked doors. It's not a law yet but I wouldn't be
surprised to see it conceded to stop something bigger. Frankly having the
kind of investment in these aircraft that we do it's a bit silly to not have
the doors locked somehow. I know, if a thief really wants in he will get
in. But a thief also isn't going to stop at a plane with locks if a better
target is around or if it will take too long or be too noticeable to
circumvent them.
So to that end someone had posted a while back a way to make a baggage
door lock work with the standard Van's door handles. Anyone still have the
links to that?
Michael
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Engraving Name Plate |
Try www.engravers.net, 860-653-2780. I used them and are very happy
with the results. They were also very prompt.
On Apr 8, 2008, at 10:47 AM, Roger Standley wrote:
>
> Didn't I see a message sometime back about a builder who was happy
> with the engraving job he had done on a name plate for his RV-10?
> Anyone remember who did the engraving or have a recommendation?
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | door safety latch |
As I am getting ready to start work on cabin top projects, I am quite interested
in the door ajar issue and mods to reduce the possibilty of an unsafe door.
I think a forward safety latch would prevent the "air under the door scenario",
and such a latch would be easy to build, and retrofit. The small triangular
piece that trims out the top forward corner of the fuselage , aft of the naca
vents, just above the door pins, could have a rotating handle, that when turned,
would engage another pin, thru the frame, and into the door. The rotating shaft
would penetrate the skin, and another handle outside the aircraft would be used
by rescue personel to release the pin, in an emergency. This eliminates the
"can't intentionally release in flight" concerns of our skydiving buddies. There
would be no pressure on this pin, of the still intact door, if the primary door
pin is properly engaged. The entire assembly could be removed from inside the
aircraft, with a few screws, if necessary.
OK fire away.
Chris Hukill
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: The King has no Clothes |
it would be even more nice if they repaired an obviously damaged plane
before flying it.. Looks like a "red X" in my maintanence book.
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@myrv10.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 4:10 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: The King has no Clothes
>
> I'm not saying I know how the plane was damaged, but what I heard
> from a reliable source that was a firsthand source, was that the
> plane was landed hard with that 4G landing, prior to the door
> departure flight. If and how those events are tied together, is
> all speculation. But, things like the cracking in front of
> the windshield, and popped rivets under the wing, and cracked
> wheel fairings and leg fairings would seem to indicate at least
> something significant happened to that plane only a couple of
> flight hours before the door came off. Not sure how the events
> may or may not relate, but it would be nice if the story actually
> happened that way that it was presented that way, right?
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Dave Leikam wrote:
>>
>> Tim,
>> Are you suggesting that the hard landing damage may have caused the later
>> door failure?
>>
>> Dave Leikam
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@myrv10.com>
>> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 10:36 PM
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: The King has no Clothes
>>
>>
>>>
>>> One thing I'm not quite sure I understand about the initial posting
>>> origination and that website. Not sure that it matters but...
>>> From information that is pretty reliable that I have been told,
>>> the person who posted the thread and page about that door separation
>>> on 416EC isn't actually the person who was flying the plane at the
>>> time, although that information isn't being presented. The other
>>> perhaps stranger bit of left out information is that the 4G landing
>>> that was described actually happened on a landing prior to the
>>> door separation, and presumably that caused some of the cracking
>>> of the airframe and popped rivets under the wing and such. Also,
>>> the gear leg fairings and wheel fairings were crunched pretty good.
>>> So considering there was so much other damage that would not be
>>> attributable to the door itself, it's a bit strange that it isn't
>>> being offered up that the other damage happened prior.
>>>
>>> Oh well, just curious, because the source I had (yes, I've known
>>> about that incident for a while now) is pretty reliable.
>>>
>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>>> do not archive
>>>
>>>
>>> Rene Felker wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I added the pins after I had completed my door. Worked fine. I
>>>> rechecked
>>>> them this weekend after hearing about the mid air door departure and
>>>> the
>>>> adjustment looked fine. Per design the pins do not go all the way into
>>>> the
>>>> frame, they only go to the edge so that when they are extended they do
>>>> not
>>>> hit the side of the air frame only the metal block. In normal opening
>>>> and
>>>> closing I have not had the back pin go outside the guide, but I do have
>>>> to
>>>> "help" the passenger door sometimes to get rear pin the hole, otherwise
>>>> it
>>>> will just hit the edge of the block.
>>>>
>>>> Rene' Felker
>>>> RV-10 N423CF Flying
>>>> 801-721-6080
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 10:56 AM
>>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: The King has no Clothes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's happened a few times now so it's not surprising to see...just
>>>> that in this case the door damaged the tail, and there was much
>>>> more to clean up. So yeah, it's a problem that can have more
>>>> than just "I need to build a new door" repercussions. But, it's
>>>> still just the same ol' problem.
>>>>
>>>> As far as the taper IN or taper OUT, I'm sure that their
>>>> reasoning is that a taper on the outside will tend to
>>>> suck the door in to alignment as the pin goes into
>>>> the door post. From a ping engagement length stanpoint,
>>>> this gives perhaps a little less pin length to hold the door
>>>> all the way in, but the pin should have a lot of
>>>> travel to it. It may ideally be that you don't want to
>>>> make that taper quite as long.
>>>>
>>>> The pin should engage plenty, so that there's quite a
>>>> bit of pin on the back side of that metal door post.
>>>> Lest people think that this is a problem with the nylon
>>>> blocks, it's not. Those shouldn't be part of what holds
>>>> the door shut...they're just there as a guide. The
>>>> pin is held by the metal door frame, so not even
>>>> the fiberglass should matter much in keeping the door
>>>> latched. This is NOT to say that you wouldn't be
>>>> better off with the rivethead door latch pins. I don't
>>>> have them, but I see that there are some good benefits
>>>> to having them. Anything you can do to make it better
>>>> is good.
>>>>
>>>> Now, on a pin adequacy as built per-plans, I really
>>>> feel that if someone has problems of this sort, and they
>>>> built the latches with the proper pin length and engagement,
>>>> then the fault is squarely on the pilot. This sort of
>>>> accident, with a properly built door/latch, that is
>>>> properly secured, just would not happen. Someone has
>>>> to screw up somewhere, to have an incident. This is
>>>> one reason why door latches without some form of positive
>>>> latching mechanism shouldn't be considered at all. The
>>>> standard van's inside handles, although ugly, are actually
>>>> very functional and provide a great positive latch.
>>>> I actually have to make sure to instruct the passenger
>>>> how to release pressure by pushing the handle down a bit
>>>> so they can squeeze the thumb button. It is very
>>>> solid, and just won't move a bit in flight. No,
>>>> vibration won't cause it to move, and there is no
>>>> way vibration and airframe flexing will release those pins.
>>>> It has to have a screwup on the pilots part, or an
>>>> improperly cut pin length, or a broken pin, or something
>>>> of that nature.
>>>>
>>>> Should a secondary latching mechanism be used? Perhaps.
>>>> Again, if you can do something to improve it, just like
>>>> the rivethead pins, then it might not be a bad idea.
>>>> But, you're going to need to do something that will
>>>> latch on the forward are of the door bottom...so that
>>>> the front of the door can't come out and catch the
>>>> 200mph breeze. Straps just won't cut it. A solid
>>>> mechanical latch would, perhaps. Is it needed? Well,
>>>> it might be a good idea, but again, if you have all the
>>>> pins latched right and built it well, you shouldn't have
>>>> a big problem the way it is per-plans either. If
>>>> someone comes up with a great kit of parts to do such
>>>> a nice latch, with drawings on how to install them, and
>>>> especially if you can do it as a retrofit on a flying
>>>> plane, then I think they could be successful selling
>>>> them.
>>>>
>>>> I took 4 flights this weekend and gave rides to a few
>>>> various people. On every flight, I personally was
>>>> the one to latch the door(s)...both of them. I was
>>>> also the one to inspect the pin engagement. You can
>>>> even put your fingers on the pin tips on the back pins.
>>>> Considering that the pins are latched, and in place
>>>> properly, and built properly, I don't live in fear that
>>>> my doors are going to fly off. I'm awaiting someone
>>>> else putting the rivethead system on AFTER having
>>>> completed their doors, and if it goes well for them
>>>> I'm considering adding them to mine. The one worry I
>>>> have is that I don't particularly like only having the
>>>> tips of the pins be nice and solid on those. It would
>>>> be nice to have 6 or more inches of tough pin, bonded
>>>> in permanently with threads and loctite, so you never
>>>> have to worry about the pin tips letting loose.
>>>> Still, it seems like it's a great solution that adds
>>>> some security.
>>>>
>>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>>>> do not archive
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John W. Cox wrote:
>>>>> <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> Okay, no one is publically discussing the comprehensive and excellent
>>>>> pictures on the door departure from N416EC. My count is over 100
>>>>> followers of this documented build technique.
>>>>>
>>>>> Would some Articulate and Tactful builder please expand and clarify
>>>>> the
>>>>> correct installation of door pins as directed in writing by VANS.
>>>>>
>>>>> Taper IN (towards the POB) or Taper OUT (towards the vast space
>>>>> outside). Then secondly, the subject of adequate pin engagement in
>>>>> the
>>>>> Jam (what is adequate?). Thirdly how to keep the pin engaged during
>>>>> flight (so buffeting cannot cause the rack to move without human
>>>>> assistance). And Fourth, the reasonable consideration of a Secondary
>>>>> Latching mechanism to prevent catastrophic door loss.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know, I know my wife tells me I am already in the Dog House for even
>>>>> mentioning the existence of an AFS4500 before it's time. Have a great
>>>>> and informative week. I suspect those of us that do not get to go to
>>>>> SNF will just keep reading the plans for answers. Tomorrow I will
>>>>> hover
>>>>> over the AFS website.
>>>>>
>>>>> John Cox
>>>>> #600
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Door handles and locks |
The version I had seen was a standard cabinet lock from Lowes Depot (same
thing as the baggage door lock) that simply used the lock flag to stop the
action of the door cam. Probably not too terribly difficult to figure out
but I'm not quite to that yet and wanted to save some time noodling time.
As far as electric locks go, I see this as something that could be done r
ather easily with a pair of solenoids. I would probably do it in addition
to the standard door mechanism although it would be rather cool to have sha
ved doors and use a door popper like custom cars, just don't know if I woul
d trust them given the results if a door opens. I see something like two a
dditional pins on the sides or maybe a single or double pins going through
the threshold. You would have to use fail retract solenoids for safety rea
sons but it could be just a switch control on the panel or integrated with
the VP logic. I know Marc was talking about having user definable events i
n the VP down the road so you could have something like airspeed > 30 knots
= arm door locks. It could also be controlled by the VP remote.
Hmmmmmm
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Door handles and locks
On this topic, Isn't there another option to the locks than needing to buy
a whole magneto kit from Van's? I would like to get something local that wo
uld allow for expansion. I would also, speaking with another builder last w
eek, like to consider a electric locking system that would work with a VP20
0 or other remote.
Any ideas?
Thanks!
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen)<mailto:rvbuilder@sausen.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:32 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Door handles
With all the talk about the doors I've been doing some thinking regarding
the factory setup vs the aftermarket handles. I like the flush look and o
peration of the handles like Hendricks and others but the lack of a positi
ve locking detent really makes me nervous.
I also want a way to lock the doors so they can't be opened by any passerb
y. The is especially important with the TSA rumblings that all GA aircraft
must have locked doors. It's not a law yet but I wouldn't be surprised to
see it conceded to stop something bigger. Frankly having the kind of inve
stment in these aircraft that we do it's a bit silly to not have the doors
locked somehow. I know, if a thief really wants in he will get in. But a
thief also isn't going to stop at a plane with locks if a better target is
around or if it will take too long or be too noticeable to circumvent them.
So to that end someone had posted a while back a way to make a baggage do
or lock work with the standard Van's door handles. Anyone still have the l
inks to that?
Michael
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 12
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Looks like GRT is getting closer to having the HX ready. Looking pretty da
rn good for the price! I think this pretty much negates the last attractiv
e item with the BMA stuff and with a much more proven track record in suppo
rt.
http://www.grtavionics.com/File/SNF%20HX%20RELEASE2(1).pdf
Message 13
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I spent some time with Rob this morning. The screen on the 4500 is
very nice. It is glossy, and although I have seen glossy screens give
more glare in sunlight, Rob says that in their testing it is easier to
see. It is about 1,000 nits, whereas the 3500 is about 500, if I
remember correctly.
According to Rob, all of the units still do the same stuff, although
you get get to some features easier and more quickly on the 4500
because of the joystick and extra knob. However, with the faster
processor (which may become available on the 3500 as an upgrade) they
will be able to offer more things like the synthetic terrain, etc.
They didn't have their approach plates demo working this morning, but
it should be this afternoon Rob said. It's pretty sweet how you can
cross-feed flight planning stuff between the AFS and a Garmin 430/530
or even a 396/496. They also don't have the weather up and running
yet here, but should tomorrow, I think he said. I will be stopping
back by. They currently only have Nexrad and one other thing (I think
the METARS/TAFS) setup, but are working on the rest.
So, in answer to your question, the $1,700 (or $1,500 as stated by Rob
this morning) difference is the screen, the processor, the extra knob
and the joystick so far.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Apr 8, 2008, at 9:42 AM, Pascal wrote:
> Jesse or anyone who has seen the AFS booth at SnF;
> I Checked out the AFS site to review the new DECK, looks like a
> faster CPU, better resolution, extra knob and a joystick but
> otherwise the same software as the 3500.
> Am I missing something to merit the extra $1700 price tag??
> Can you send a review of thoughts between the 3500 and the DECK
> (4500)?
> Thanks!
> Pascal
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jesse Saint
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 5:31 PM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: AFS Systems
>
> I don't know the answer to that yet, but if AFS is half as smart as
> they appear to be, it will be the same or very similar wiring.
> Dynon's wiring for their D-180 is the same as for the D-100 and
> D-120 combined, and the D-100 and D-120 have the same wiring as the
> D-10/D-10A's. You know what assuming does, but let's hope it will
> be the same or very similar wiring. The one thing I know about the
> 4500 is that they will fit into trays instead of having the
> connectors attach directly to the back of the EFIS or EMS. I just
> got the paperwork from Rob that they will be giving out at Sun-N-Fun
> and it looks fantastic. Market share is definitely going to be
> moving in their direction, IMHO.
>
> As far as Bob's question, I have only worked with the GRT EIS, not
> the EFIS, so I won't/can't speak to that. My main memory of the
> recent wiring of the EIS is all of the specific resistors that need
> to be wired in line with the different sensors and the number of
> wires that have to be run to multiple places for the excitation
> voltage for sensors. On GRT's behalf, I got the impression that
> they have a new EIS coming out that will eliminate some of this.
> Also, the GRT allows you to use a lot more different types of
> senders and to calibrate the system to read them, but for most of
> the people on this list, I don't think that is as big of a deal
> since most are building new planes and buying new sensors, not
> trying to retrofit.
>
> On the Sun-N-Fun note, I will plan to be there all week except
> Sunday, probaby. By that time I will be pretty tired, especially
> since I am just getting back home from Ecuador the day after
> tomorrow, and also because my wife is due with baby #5 in 3 weeks
> (please no comments on how close I am cutting that, as I already
> know it - but since she will be with me at Sun-N-Fun, we may end up
> having the midwife just come to the camper as long as the labor
> doesn't run into the curfew hours :-) ). I will try to send reports
> on any new offerings or surprises or great show specials. I don't
> know if we can expect an Auto Pilot offering from Dynon yet or if we
> have to wait until OSH. Who knows what Garmin, TruTrak, etc. might
> have up their sleeves.
>
> do not archive
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> jesse@saintaviation.com
> Cell: 352-427-0285
> Fax: 815-377-3694
>
> On Apr 2, 2008, at 6:33 PM, John W. Cox wrote:
>> Jesse, before answering Bob=92s question. Will your =93just finished
>> wiring=94 for the AFS 3500 AHRS setup allow for the AFS4500 about to
>> be unveiled next week up the street from you?
>>
>> Wiring is a biggy. If yes, then go ahead and answer Bob=92s query.
>> I will wait until after you have an answer. It is great to watch
>> the products develop and seek their place on the food chain. These
>> are exciting times.
>>
>> John
>>
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> ] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 2:32 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RV10-List: AFS Systems
>>
>> Just an FYI for those doing their own panels. I have just finished
>> wiring in a dual AHRS Advanced Flight System setup, which is the
>> first AFS system I have installed except the AOA. It is a very
>> easy system compared to some. It is very similar to a Dynon
>> installation in many ways. Way easier than the GRT EIS.
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> Saint Aviation, Inc.
>> jesse@saintaviation.com
>> Cell: 352-427-0285
>> Fax: 815-377-3694
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
> www.matronics.com/c
>
>
Message 14
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I stopped by the E-Mag guys today and they now have a 6-cylinder
version on display. They said they have production units and will be
doing testing. They hope to be shipping by Oshkosh time and are
taking no-deposit waiting list orders via e-mail. I told them they
can expect to sell a lot of them. I think they said it will be about
$1,275 for the mag without the harness.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
Message 15
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| Subject: | was Door separation now Door Locks / Door Handles |
Deems, I am well aware that many doors that open in flight cannot be
closed. On my Bonanza (D-35, with poor 1940 latch design) the door
opened on takeoff while I was the PAX. It took all my strength to pull
the door in about 2 inches. When I finally relaxed (a bit) the door only
opened slightly farther and then just held there. I assume this COULD be
different had the Bonanza hinges been on the top of the door instead of
the leading edge. Maybe that is why it has a "V" tail. Keeps it save
from departing doors.
Michael (Sausen): my Hendricks latched came with door locks to minimize
petty theft.
Speaking of door handles I have not given much thought to an interior
handle or handle & arm rest combination. Assuming I don't; go with some
sort of pull strap to close the door while seated what are other
builders using to pull the door closed and/or use as an arm rest. My
current plans are to paint the inside door and not place any material on
the inside door.
Thanks,
Robin
Message 16
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It's amazing where we have come in the last 7 years with avionics.
Looking at ACS online I see a Century Vacuum Gyro HSI for almost
$11,000. The PDF below details a full IFR Dual Color Screen, Dual AHRS
With Probes for $8,350. Talk about a powerful package providing
remarkable situational awareness for under $10K. Flying behind a panel
like this was only a dream 10 years ago and now it's cost effective
enough to consider it as a backup system. Amazing.
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 8:38 AM
Subject: RV10-List: GRT HX
Looks like GRT is getting closer to having the HX ready. Looking pretty
darn good for the price! I think this pretty much negates the last
attractive item with the BMA stuff and with a much more proven track
record in support.
http://www.grtavionics.com/File/SNF%20HX%20RELEASE2(1).pdf
Message 17
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| Subject: | Engine stop tests. |
Hi
I would like to report on some tests we did this evening.
We wanted to know what would happen when the engine stops. In flight!
We have a Barratts IO540, standard compression, with the MT 3 blade
prop, dual mags.
The object of the exercise was to see just what happens when the fuel
runs out in one tank, and how easy it is to re-start.
First exercise was to practise some forced landings in case we really
couldn't restart it. So complete with clearance from our local
Airforce base, and with one of their squadron leaders in the right
hand seat, the tower fully briefed on what we were doing, off we set
to 5000ft.
There was a relatively strong wind of about 35 knots at 2000ft & 25
gusting 30 on the ground . So we came up a bit short (just a bit) on
the runway. I was reminded then that I need to practice forced
landings from all heights, not just pattern (or circuit) height.
Then it was back up to 5000ft.
Cool the engine a bit, then ( all in controlled airspace I hasten to
add), we cut mixture to full idle cut off. The engine just kept on
going at about 500 rpm in the glide at about 80 knots or so, so
eventually with full flap, and mushing down at about 55 knots, we
managed to finally get it to stop. It's certainly odd seeing the prop
stopped, and the ground so far below. Yes we do know that it is less
than ideal for the prop to drive the engine, but we wanted to do the
tests. There is no doubt that if the engine stops, the glide rate is
about 200 ft/m better with the prop in full course.
So it was full rich, full fine, and about 1/2 inch. Fuel pump on, a
flick of the starter and away it went. So no problems there at all.
The next test was a bit harder, because we wanted to check if we could
start the engine without the starter (just in case of a flat battery /
broken starter etc.) I've had two occasions where the engine started,
but the starter failed in the process. So I was unable to restart.
With the prop stopped again, we went flaps up, full rich,full fine,
1/2 inch on the throttle and entered a dive.
The prop looked as if someone was trying to hand swing it (though at
4500ft and rapidly decreasing, that was unlikely!)
After a few seconds it finally passed TDC, then again, and eventually
it did restart after having lost about 2600ft, and at a speed of about
130-150 knots.
Very quickly it builds up revs, so pulling back on stick & throttle we
were quickly under control. But it is not something you will get away
with under 3000ft.
Our final test was to deliberately run out of fuel. With plenty in the
other tank!
So we simply cruised around for a further 15 mins or so, until finally
the engine cooughed & spluttered. There was plenty of time to switch
pump on and change tanks and away she went. So no dramas at all.
Having completed our tests it was back up to 7000ft t play on the
overcast for a short while.
So in conclusion, there is nothing to be feared about running a tank
dry. So long as the starter works, or you have sufficient height.
However, if you have totally run out of fuel, it will happily continue
to turn. So bearing in mind you have little or no oil pressure, then
there is very little time to coursen up the prop to minimise drag. And
if you are thinking of saving the engine on your forced landing, then
you need to drop the flap and stall for a while to get the engine to
stop.
So what a fun evening. Just wish I had taken the camera with me.
If anyone else has done such tests, it would be great to hear from
you. Or if anyone has any other thoughts on such matters.
Neil
ps- Take off with Sarah PIC at Warbirds over Wanaka a couple of weeks
back. Osh may be bigger, but Wanaka surely has the best setting
anywhere for an airshow.
Message 18
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Anybody know if they have worked out the bugs in their 4cyl models yet. Hi
story has been very hit and miss on those.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 12:31 PM
Subject: RV10-List: P-Mag!
I stopped by the E-Mag guys today and they now have a 6-cylinder version on
display. They said they have production units and will be doing testing.
They hope to be shipping by Oshkosh time and are taking no-deposit waiting
list orders via e-mail. I told them they can expect to sell a lot of them
. I think they said it will be about $1,275 for the mag without the harnes
s.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com<mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com>
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
Message 19
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Thanks Jesse for the review, my mistake on the price it is indeed $1500
more.
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: Jesse Saint
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: AFS Systems
I spent some time with Rob this morning. The screen on the 4500 is
very nice. It is glossy, and although I have seen glossy screens give
more glare in sunlight, Rob says that in their testing it is easier to
see. It is about 1,000 nits, whereas the 3500 is about 500, if I
remember correctly.
According to Rob, all of the units still do the same stuff, although
you get get to some features easier and more quickly on the 4500 because
of the joystick and extra knob. However, with the faster processor
(which may become available on the 3500 as an upgrade) they will be able
to offer more things like the synthetic terrain, etc. They didn't have
their approach plates demo working this morning, but it should be this
afternoon Rob said. It's pretty sweet how you can cross-feed flight
planning stuff between the AFS and a Garmin 430/530 or even a 396/496.
They also don't have the weather up and running yet here, but should
tomorrow, I think he said. I will be stopping back by. They currently
only have Nexrad and one other thing (I think the METARS/TAFS) setup,
but are working on the rest.
So, in answer to your question, the $1,700 (or $1,500 as stated by Rob
this morning) difference is the screen, the processor, the extra knob
and the joystick so far.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Apr 8, 2008, at 9:42 AM, Pascal wrote:
Jesse or anyone who has seen the AFS booth at SnF;
I Checked out the AFS site to review the new DECK, looks like a
faster CPU, better resolution, extra knob and a joystick but otherwise
the same software as the 3500.
Am I missing something to merit the extra $1700 price tag??
Can you send a review of thoughts between the 3500 and the DECK
(4500)?
Thanks!
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: Jesse Saint
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: AFS Systems
I don't know the answer to that yet, but if AFS is half as smart
as they appear to be, it will be the same or very similar wiring.
Dynon's wiring for their D-180 is the same as for the D-100 and D-120
combined, and the D-100 and D-120 have the same wiring as the
D-10/D-10A's. You know what assuming does, but let's hope it will be
the same or very similar wiring. The one thing I know about the 4500 is
that they will fit into trays instead of having the connectors attach
directly to the back of the EFIS or EMS. I just got the paperwork from
Rob that they will be giving out at Sun-N-Fun and it looks fantastic.
Market share is definitely going to be moving in their direction, IMHO.
As far as Bob's question, I have only worked with the GRT EIS, not
the EFIS, so I won't/can't speak to that. My main memory of the recent
wiring of the EIS is all of the specific resistors that need to be wired
in line with the different sensors and the number of wires that have to
be run to multiple places for the excitation voltage for sensors. On
GRT's behalf, I got the impression that they have a new EIS coming out
that will eliminate some of this. Also, the GRT allows you to use a lot
more different types of senders and to calibrate the system to read
them, but for most of the people on this list, I don't think that is as
big of a deal since most are building new planes and buying new sensors,
not trying to retrofit.
On the Sun-N-Fun note, I will plan to be there all week except
Sunday, probaby. By that time I will be pretty tired, especially since
I am just getting back home from Ecuador the day after tomorrow, and
also because my wife is due with baby #5 in 3 weeks (please no comments
on how close I am cutting that, as I already know it - but since she
will be with me at Sun-N-Fun, we may end up having the midwife just come
to the camper as long as the labor doesn't run into the curfew hours :-)
). I will try to send reports on any new offerings or surprises or
great show specials. I don't know if we can expect an Auto Pilot
offering from Dynon yet or if we have to wait until OSH. Who knows what
Garmin, TruTrak, etc. might have up their sleeves.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Apr 2, 2008, at 6:33 PM, John W. Cox wrote:
Jesse, before answering Bob=92s question. Will your =93just
finished wiring=94 for the AFS 3500 AHRS setup allow for the AFS4500
about to be unveiled next week up the street from you?
Wiring is a biggy. If yes, then go ahead and answer Bob=92s
query. I will wait until after you have an answer. It is great to
watch the products develop and seek their place on the food chain.
These are exciting times.
John
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 2:32 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: AFS Systems
Just an FYI for those doing their own panels. I have just
finished wiring in a dual AHRS Advanced Flight System setup, which is
the first AFS system I have installed except the AOA. It is a very easy
system compared to some. It is very similar to a Dynon installation in
many ways. Way easier than the GRT EIS.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution http://forums.matronics.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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ontribution
Message 20
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| Subject: | Engine stop tests. |
Fabulous detail and invaluable research. We need more of this stuff and
less accident reporting. By the way, did you go with the stock James
engine cowl?
The Warbirds acts as breathtaking as the setting at Wanaka. See you for
OSH '08.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neil & Sarah
Colliver
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:48 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Engine stop tests.
Hi
I would like to report on some tests we did this evening.
We wanted to know what would happen when the engine stops. In flight!
We have a Barratts IO540, standard compression, with the MT 3 blade
prop, dual mags.
The object of the exercise was to see just what happens when the fuel
runs out in one tank, and how easy it is to re-start.
First exercise was to practise some forced landings in case we really
couldn't restart it. So complete with clearance from our local
Airforce base, and with one of their squadron leaders in the right
hand seat, the tower fully briefed on what we were doing, off we set
to 5000ft.
There was a relatively strong wind of about 35 knots at 2000ft & 25
gusting 30 on the ground . So we came up a bit short (just a bit) on
the runway. I was reminded then that I need to practice forced
landings from all heights, not just pattern (or circuit) height.
Then it was back up to 5000ft.
Cool the engine a bit, then ( all in controlled airspace I hasten to
add), we cut mixture to full idle cut off. The engine just kept on
going at about 500 rpm in the glide at about 80 knots or so, so
eventually with full flap, and mushing down at about 55 knots, we
managed to finally get it to stop. It's certainly odd seeing the prop
stopped, and the ground so far below. Yes we do know that it is less
than ideal for the prop to drive the engine, but we wanted to do the
tests. There is no doubt that if the engine stops, the glide rate is
about 200 ft/m better with the prop in full course.
So it was full rich, full fine, and about 1/2 inch. Fuel pump on, a
flick of the starter and away it went. So no problems there at all.
The next test was a bit harder, because we wanted to check if we could
start the engine without the starter (just in case of a flat battery /
broken starter etc.) I've had two occasions where the engine started,
but the starter failed in the process. So I was unable to restart.
With the prop stopped again, we went flaps up, full rich,full fine,
1/2 inch on the throttle and entered a dive.
The prop looked as if someone was trying to hand swing it (though at
4500ft and rapidly decreasing, that was unlikely!)
After a few seconds it finally passed TDC, then again, and eventually
it did restart after having lost about 2600ft, and at a speed of about
130-150 knots.
Very quickly it builds up revs, so pulling back on stick & throttle we
were quickly under control. But it is not something you will get away
with under 3000ft.
Our final test was to deliberately run out of fuel. With plenty in the
other tank!
So we simply cruised around for a further 15 mins or so, until finally
the engine cooughed & spluttered. There was plenty of time to switch
pump on and change tanks and away she went. So no dramas at all.
Having completed our tests it was back up to 7000ft t play on the
overcast for a short while.
So in conclusion, there is nothing to be feared about running a tank
dry. So long as the starter works, or you have sufficient height.
However, if you have totally run out of fuel, it will happily continue
to turn. So bearing in mind you have little or no oil pressure, then
there is very little time to coursen up the prop to minimise drag. And
if you are thinking of saving the engine on your forced landing, then
you need to drop the flap and stall for a while to get the engine to
stop.
So what a fun evening. Just wish I had taken the camera with me.
If anyone else has done such tests, it would be great to hear from
you. Or if anyone has any other thoughts on such matters.
Neil
ps- Take off with Sarah PIC at Warbirds over Wanaka a couple of weeks
back. Osh may be bigger, but Wanaka surely has the best setting
anywhere for an airshow.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Engine stop tests. |
Neil,
Excellent right up. Thanks for sharing!
Michael
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neil & Sarah Colliver
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 12:48 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Engine stop tests.
Hi
I would like to report on some tests we did this evening.
We wanted to know what would happen when the engine stops. In flight!
We have a Barratts IO540, standard compression, with the MT 3 blade prop, dual
mags.
The object of the exercise was to see just what happens when the fuel runs out
in one tank, and how easy it is to re-start.
First exercise was to practise some forced landings in case we really couldn't
restart it. So complete with clearance from our local Airforce base, and with
one of their squadron leaders in the right hand seat, the tower fully briefed
on what we were doing, off we set to 5000ft.
There was a relatively strong wind of about 35 knots at 2000ft & 25 gusting 30
on the ground . So we came up a bit short (just a bit) on the runway. I was reminded
then that I need to practice forced landings from all heights, not just
pattern (or circuit) height.
Then it was back up to 5000ft.
Cool the engine a bit, then ( all in controlled airspace I hasten to add), we cut
mixture to full idle cut off. The engine just kept on going at about 500 rpm
in the glide at about 80 knots or so, so eventually with full flap, and mushing
down at about 55 knots, we managed to finally get it to stop. It's certainly
odd seeing the prop stopped, and the ground so far below. Yes we do know that
it is less than ideal for the prop to drive the engine, but we wanted to do
the tests. There is no doubt that if the engine stops, the glide rate is about
200 ft/m better with the prop in full course.
So it was full rich, full fine, and about 1/2 inch. Fuel pump on, a flick of the
starter and away it went. So no problems there at all.
The next test was a bit harder, because we wanted to check if we could start the
engine without the starter (just in case of a flat battery / broken starter
etc.) I've had two occasions where the engine started, but the starter failed
in the process. So I was unable to restart.
With the prop stopped again, we went flaps up, full rich,full fine,
1/2 inch on the throttle and entered a dive.
The prop looked as if someone was trying to hand swing it (though at 4500ft and
rapidly decreasing, that was unlikely!)
After a few seconds it finally passed TDC, then again, and eventually it did restart
after having lost about 2600ft, and at a speed of about 130-150 knots.
Very quickly it builds up revs, so pulling back on stick & throttle we were quickly
under control. But it is not something you will get away with under 3000ft.
Our final test was to deliberately run out of fuel. With plenty in the other tank!
So we simply cruised around for a further 15 mins or so, until finally the engine
cooughed & spluttered. There was plenty of time to switch pump on and change
tanks and away she went. So no dramas at all.
Having completed our tests it was back up to 7000ft t play on the overcast for
a short while.
So in conclusion, there is nothing to be feared about running a tank dry. So long
as the starter works, or you have sufficient height.
However, if you have totally run out of fuel, it will happily continue to turn.
So bearing in mind you have little or no oil pressure, then there is very little
time to coursen up the prop to minimise drag. And if you are thinking of saving
the engine on your forced landing, then you need to drop the flap and stall
for a while to get the engine to stop.
So what a fun evening. Just wish I had taken the camera with me.
If anyone else has done such tests, it would be great to hear from you. Or if anyone
has any other thoughts on such matters.
Neil
ps- Take off with Sarah PIC at Warbirds over Wanaka a couple of weeks back. Osh
may be bigger, but Wanaka surely has the best setting anywhere for an airshow.
Message 22
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In a message dated 4/8/2008 12:49:11 PM Central Daylight Time,
robin1@mrmoisture.com writes:
Talk about a powerful package providing remarkable situational awareness fo
r
under $10K. Flying behind a panel like this was only a dream 10 years ago
and now it=99s cost effective
Robin...a note of caution...only for experimentals...certifieds will cost
you a few more $$$$
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000
016)
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Engine stop tests. |
James cowl & plenum. Had to add a slightly bigger oil cooler.
Neil
On 9/04/2008, at 6:20 AM, John W. Cox wrote:
> <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>
> Fabulous detail and invaluable research. We need more of this stuff
> and
> less accident reporting. By the way, did you go with the stock James
> engine cowl?
>
> The Warbirds acts as breathtaking as the setting at Wanaka. See you
> for
> OSH '08.
>
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neil &
> Sarah
> Colliver
> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:48 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Engine stop tests.
>
> Hi
>
> I would like to report on some tests we did this evening.
>
> We wanted to know what would happen when the engine stops. In flight!
> We have a Barratts IO540, standard compression, with the MT 3 blade
> prop, dual mags.
>
> The object of the exercise was to see just what happens when the fuel
> runs out in one tank, and how easy it is to re-start.
>
> First exercise was to practise some forced landings in case we really
> couldn't restart it. So complete with clearance from our local
> Airforce base, and with one of their squadron leaders in the right
> hand seat, the tower fully briefed on what we were doing, off we set
> to 5000ft.
>
> There was a relatively strong wind of about 35 knots at 2000ft & 25
> gusting 30 on the ground . So we came up a bit short (just a bit) on
> the runway. I was reminded then that I need to practice forced
> landings from all heights, not just pattern (or circuit) height.
>
> Then it was back up to 5000ft.
> Cool the engine a bit, then ( all in controlled airspace I hasten to
> add), we cut mixture to full idle cut off. The engine just kept on
> going at about 500 rpm in the glide at about 80 knots or so, so
> eventually with full flap, and mushing down at about 55 knots, we
> managed to finally get it to stop. It's certainly odd seeing the prop
> stopped, and the ground so far below. Yes we do know that it is less
> than ideal for the prop to drive the engine, but we wanted to do the
> tests. There is no doubt that if the engine stops, the glide rate is
> about 200 ft/m better with the prop in full course.
>
> So it was full rich, full fine, and about 1/2 inch. Fuel pump on, a
> flick of the starter and away it went. So no problems there at all.
>
> The next test was a bit harder, because we wanted to check if we could
> start the engine without the starter (just in case of a flat battery /
> broken starter etc.) I've had two occasions where the engine started,
> but the starter failed in the process. So I was unable to restart.
>
> With the prop stopped again, we went flaps up, full rich,full fine,
> 1/2 inch on the throttle and entered a dive.
>
> The prop looked as if someone was trying to hand swing it (though at
> 4500ft and rapidly decreasing, that was unlikely!)
>
> After a few seconds it finally passed TDC, then again, and eventually
> it did restart after having lost about 2600ft, and at a speed of about
> 130-150 knots.
>
> Very quickly it builds up revs, so pulling back on stick & throttle we
> were quickly under control. But it is not something you will get away
> with under 3000ft.
>
> Our final test was to deliberately run out of fuel. With plenty in the
> other tank!
> So we simply cruised around for a further 15 mins or so, until finally
> the engine cooughed & spluttered. There was plenty of time to switch
> pump on and change tanks and away she went. So no dramas at all.
>
> Having completed our tests it was back up to 7000ft t play on the
> overcast for a short while.
>
> So in conclusion, there is nothing to be feared about running a tank
> dry. So long as the starter works, or you have sufficient height.
>
> However, if you have totally run out of fuel, it will happily continue
> to turn. So bearing in mind you have little or no oil pressure, then
> there is very little time to coursen up the prop to minimise drag. And
> if you are thinking of saving the engine on your forced landing, then
> you need to drop the flap and stall for a while to get the engine to
> stop.
>
> So what a fun evening. Just wish I had taken the camera with me.
>
> If anyone else has done such tests, it would be great to hear from
> you. Or if anyone has any other thoughts on such matters.
>
> Neil
>
> ps- Take off with Sarah PIC at Warbirds over Wanaka a couple of weeks
> back. Osh may be bigger, but Wanaka surely has the best setting
> anywhere for an airshow.
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Engine stop tests. |
During these tests, what did you find the best glide to be with and without
the prop being stopped.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250 (N519RV)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neil & Sarah Colliver
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 12:48 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Engine stop tests.
Hi
I would like to report on some tests we did this evening.
We wanted to know what would happen when the engine stops. In flight!
We have a Barratts IO540, standard compression, with the MT 3 blade
prop, dual mags.
The object of the exercise was to see just what happens when the fuel
runs out in one tank, and how easy it is to re-start.
First exercise was to practise some forced landings in case we really
couldn't restart it. So complete with clearance from our local
Airforce base, and with one of their squadron leaders in the right
hand seat, the tower fully briefed on what we were doing, off we set
to 5000ft.
There was a relatively strong wind of about 35 knots at 2000ft & 25
gusting 30 on the ground . So we came up a bit short (just a bit) on
the runway. I was reminded then that I need to practice forced
landings from all heights, not just pattern (or circuit) height.
Then it was back up to 5000ft.
Cool the engine a bit, then ( all in controlled airspace I hasten to
add), we cut mixture to full idle cut off. The engine just kept on
going at about 500 rpm in the glide at about 80 knots or so, so
eventually with full flap, and mushing down at about 55 knots, we
managed to finally get it to stop. It's certainly odd seeing the prop
stopped, and the ground so far below. Yes we do know that it is less
than ideal for the prop to drive the engine, but we wanted to do the
tests. There is no doubt that if the engine stops, the glide rate is
about 200 ft/m better with the prop in full course.
So it was full rich, full fine, and about 1/2 inch. Fuel pump on, a
flick of the starter and away it went. So no problems there at all.
The next test was a bit harder, because we wanted to check if we could
start the engine without the starter (just in case of a flat battery /
broken starter etc.) I've had two occasions where the engine started,
but the starter failed in the process. So I was unable to restart.
With the prop stopped again, we went flaps up, full rich,full fine,
1/2 inch on the throttle and entered a dive.
The prop looked as if someone was trying to hand swing it (though at
4500ft and rapidly decreasing, that was unlikely!)
After a few seconds it finally passed TDC, then again, and eventually
it did restart after having lost about 2600ft, and at a speed of about
130-150 knots.
Very quickly it builds up revs, so pulling back on stick & throttle we
were quickly under control. But it is not something you will get away
with under 3000ft.
Our final test was to deliberately run out of fuel. With plenty in the
other tank!
So we simply cruised around for a further 15 mins or so, until finally
the engine cooughed & spluttered. There was plenty of time to switch
pump on and change tanks and away she went. So no dramas at all.
Having completed our tests it was back up to 7000ft t play on the
overcast for a short while.
So in conclusion, there is nothing to be feared about running a tank
dry. So long as the starter works, or you have sufficient height.
However, if you have totally run out of fuel, it will happily continue
to turn. So bearing in mind you have little or no oil pressure, then
there is very little time to coursen up the prop to minimise drag. And
if you are thinking of saving the engine on your forced landing, then
you need to drop the flap and stall for a while to get the engine to
stop.
So what a fun evening. Just wish I had taken the camera with me.
If anyone else has done such tests, it would be great to hear from
you. Or if anyone has any other thoughts on such matters.
Neil
ps- Take off with Sarah PIC at Warbirds over Wanaka a couple of weeks
back. Osh may be bigger, but Wanaka surely has the best setting
anywhere for an airshow.
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Engine stop tests. |
The best glide with the engine at tickover (minimum throttle) was 75
knots. We must have done over an hour of tests to establish this.
Last night we were gliding at about 80 knots. Full fine was about 1000
ft/m, full corse was about 200 ft/m better. Sorry, but we didn't
attempt to establish best glide with engine stopped as the focus was
on re-starting.
Neil
On 9/04/2008, at 7:39 AM, Doerr, Ray R [NTK] wrote:
> >
>
> During these tests, what did you find the best glide to be
> with and without the prop being stopped.
>
> Thank You
> Ray Doerr
> 40250 (N519RV)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> ] On Behalf Of Neil & Sarah Colliver
> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 12:48 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Engine stop tests.
>
> Hi
>
> I would like to report on some tests we did this evening.
>
> We wanted to know what would happen when the engine stops. In flight!
> We have a Barratts IO540, standard compression, with the MT 3 blade
> prop, dual mags.
>
> The object of the exercise was to see just what happens when the fuel
> runs out in one tank, and how easy it is to re-start.
>
> First exercise was to practise some forced landings in case we really
> couldn't restart it. So complete with clearance from our local
> Airforce base, and with one of their squadron leaders in the right
> hand seat, the tower fully briefed on what we were doing, off we set
> to 5000ft.
>
> There was a relatively strong wind of about 35 knots at 2000ft & 25
> gusting 30 on the ground . So we came up a bit short (just a bit) on
> the runway. I was reminded then that I need to practice forced
> landings from all heights, not just pattern (or circuit) height.
>
> Then it was back up to 5000ft.
> Cool the engine a bit, then ( all in controlled airspace I hasten to
> add), we cut mixture to full idle cut off. The engine just kept on
> going at about 500 rpm in the glide at about 80 knots or so, so
> eventually with full flap, and mushing down at about 55 knots, we
> managed to finally get it to stop. It's certainly odd seeing the prop
> stopped, and the ground so far below. Yes we do know that it is less
> than ideal for the prop to drive the engine, but we wanted to do the
> tests. There is no doubt that if the engine stops, the glide rate is
> about 200 ft/m better with the prop in full course.
>
> So it was full rich, full fine, and about 1/2 inch. Fuel pump on, a
> flick of the starter and away it went. So no problems there at all.
>
> The next test was a bit harder, because we wanted to check if we could
> start the engine without the starter (just in case of a flat battery /
> broken starter etc.) I've had two occasions where the engine started,
> but the starter failed in the process. So I was unable to restart.
>
> With the prop stopped again, we went flaps up, full rich,full fine,
> 1/2 inch on the throttle and entered a dive.
>
> The prop looked as if someone was trying to hand swing it (though at
> 4500ft and rapidly decreasing, that was unlikely!)
>
> After a few seconds it finally passed TDC, then again, and eventually
> it did restart after having lost about 2600ft, and at a speed of about
> 130-150 knots.
>
> Very quickly it builds up revs, so pulling back on stick & throttle we
> were quickly under control. But it is not something you will get away
> with under 3000ft.
>
> Our final test was to deliberately run out of fuel. With plenty in the
> other tank!
> So we simply cruised around for a further 15 mins or so, until finally
> the engine cooughed & spluttered. There was plenty of time to switch
> pump on and change tanks and away she went. So no dramas at all.
>
> Having completed our tests it was back up to 7000ft t play on the
> overcast for a short while.
>
> So in conclusion, there is nothing to be feared about running a tank
> dry. So long as the starter works, or you have sufficient height.
>
> However, if you have totally run out of fuel, it will happily continue
> to turn. So bearing in mind you have little or no oil pressure, then
> there is very little time to coursen up the prop to minimise drag. And
> if you are thinking of saving the engine on your forced landing, then
> you need to drop the flap and stall for a while to get the engine to
> stop.
>
> So what a fun evening. Just wish I had taken the camera with me.
>
> If anyone else has done such tests, it would be great to hear from
> you. Or if anyone has any other thoughts on such matters.
>
> Neil
>
> ps- Take off with Sarah PIC at Warbirds over Wanaka a couple of weeks
> back. Osh may be bigger, but Wanaka surely has the best setting
> anywhere for an airshow.
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Engine stop tests. |
Awesome job Neil! I did shut off fuel on mine and let the prop
windmill, but as I lack the balls that you have, I didn't
stop the prop. For you though, the man who's going to fly to
OSH from NZ....you've definitely got the cahones to tackle
such tests. :)
With a windmilling prop, you can't really hardly even tell that
the engine has stopped, and a restart is dirt simple.
Glad you're having such a blast!
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Neil & Sarah Colliver wrote:
> Hi
>
> I would like to report on some tests we did this evening.
>
> We wanted to know what would happen when the engine stops. In flight! We
> have a Barratts IO540, standard compression, with the MT 3 blade prop,
> dual mags.
>
> The object of the exercise was to see just what happens when the fuel
> runs out in one tank, and how easy it is to re-start.
>
> First exercise was to practise some forced landings in case we really
> couldn't restart it. So complete with clearance from our local Airforce
> base, and with one of their squadron leaders in the right hand seat, the
> tower fully briefed on what we were doing, off we set to 5000ft.
>
> There was a relatively strong wind of about 35 knots at 2000ft & 25
> gusting 30 on the ground . So we came up a bit short (just a bit) on the
> runway. I was reminded then that I need to practice forced landings from
> all heights, not just pattern (or circuit) height.
>
> Then it was back up to 5000ft.
> Cool the engine a bit, then ( all in controlled airspace I hasten to
> add), we cut mixture to full idle cut off. The engine just kept on going
> at about 500 rpm in the glide at about 80 knots or so, so eventually
> with full flap, and mushing down at about 55 knots, we managed to
> finally get it to stop. It's certainly odd seeing the prop stopped, and
> the ground so far below. Yes we do know that it is less than ideal for
> the prop to drive the engine, but we wanted to do the tests. There is no
> doubt that if the engine stops, the glide rate is about 200 ft/m better
> with the prop in full course.
>
> So it was full rich, full fine, and about 1/2 inch. Fuel pump on, a
> flick of the starter and away it went. So no problems there at all.
>
> The next test was a bit harder, because we wanted to check if we could
> start the engine without the starter (just in case of a flat battery /
> broken starter etc.) I've had two occasions where the engine started,
> but the starter failed in the process. So I was unable to restart.
>
> With the prop stopped again, we went flaps up, full rich,full fine, 1/2
> inch on the throttle and entered a dive.
>
> The prop looked as if someone was trying to hand swing it (though at
> 4500ft and rapidly decreasing, that was unlikely!)
>
> After a few seconds it finally passed TDC, then again, and eventually it
> did restart after having lost about 2600ft, and at a speed of about
> 130-150 knots.
>
> Very quickly it builds up revs, so pulling back on stick & throttle we
> were quickly under control. But it is not something you will get away
> with under 3000ft.
>
> Our final test was to deliberately run out of fuel. With plenty in the
> other tank!
> So we simply cruised around for a further 15 mins or so, until finally
> the engine cooughed & spluttered. There was plenty of time to switch
> pump on and change tanks and away she went. So no dramas at all.
>
> Having completed our tests it was back up to 7000ft t play on the
> overcast for a short while.
>
> So in conclusion, there is nothing to be feared about running a tank
> dry. So long as the starter works, or you have sufficient height.
>
> However, if you have totally run out of fuel, it will happily continue
> to turn. So bearing in mind you have little or no oil pressure, then
> there is very little time to coursen up the prop to minimise drag. And
> if you are thinking of saving the engine on your forced landing, then
> you need to drop the flap and stall for a while to get the engine to stop.
>
> So what a fun evening. Just wish I had taken the camera with me.
>
> If anyone else has done such tests, it would be great to hear from you.
> Or if anyone has any other thoughts on such matters.
>
> Neil
>
> ps- Take off with Sarah PIC at Warbirds over Wanaka a couple of weeks
> back. Osh may be bigger, but Wanaka surely has the best setting anywhere
> for an airshow.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Engine stop tests. |
You're kidding! Neil hasn't got the balls to do it . He cheated and
took the test pilot with him who has got the balls to do it!! I
certainly wasn't going to do it with him. I haven't got any balls full
stop!
Sarah
definitely do not archive
On 9/04/2008, at 8:17 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Awesome job Neil! I did shut off fuel on mine and let the prop
> windmill, but as I lack the balls that you have, I didn't
> stop the prop. For you though, the man who's going to fly to
> OSH from NZ....you've definitely got the cahones to tackle
> such tests. :)
>
> With a windmilling prop, you can't really hardly even tell that
> the engine has stopped, and a restart is dirt simple.
>
> Glad you're having such a blast!
>
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Neil & Sarah Colliver wrote:
>> Hi
>> I would like to report on some tests we did this evening.
>> We wanted to know what would happen when the engine stops. In
>> flight! We have a Barratts IO540, standard compression, with the MT
>> 3 blade prop, dual mags.
>> The object of the exercise was to see just what happens when the
>> fuel runs out in one tank, and how easy it is to re-start.
>> First exercise was to practise some forced landings in case we
>> really couldn't restart it. So complete with clearance from our
>> local Airforce base, and with one of their squadron leaders in the
>> right hand seat, the tower fully briefed on what we were doing, off
>> we set to 5000ft.
>> There was a relatively strong wind of about 35 knots at 2000ft & 25
>> gusting 30 on the ground . So we came up a bit short (just a bit)
>> on the runway. I was reminded then that I need to practice forced
>> landings from all heights, not just pattern (or circuit) height.
>> Then it was back up to 5000ft.
>> Cool the engine a bit, then ( all in controlled airspace I hasten
>> to add), we cut mixture to full idle cut off. The engine just kept
>> on going at about 500 rpm in the glide at about 80 knots or so, so
>> eventually with full flap, and mushing down at about 55 knots, we
>> managed to finally get it to stop. It's certainly odd seeing the
>> prop stopped, and the ground so far below. Yes we do know that it
>> is less than ideal for the prop to drive the engine, but we wanted
>> to do the tests. There is no doubt that if the engine stops, the
>> glide rate is about 200 ft/m better with the prop in full course.
>> So it was full rich, full fine, and about 1/2 inch. Fuel pump on, a
>> flick of the starter and away it went. So no problems there at all.
>> The next test was a bit harder, because we wanted to check if we
>> could start the engine without the starter (just in case of a flat
>> battery / broken starter etc.) I've had two occasions where the
>> engine started, but the starter failed in the process. So I was
>> unable to restart.
>> With the prop stopped again, we went flaps up, full rich,full fine,
>> 1/2 inch on the throttle and entered a dive.
>> The prop looked as if someone was trying to hand swing it (though
>> at 4500ft and rapidly decreasing, that was unlikely!)
>> After a few seconds it finally passed TDC, then again, and
>> eventually it did restart after having lost about 2600ft, and at a
>> speed of about 130-150 knots.
>> Very quickly it builds up revs, so pulling back on stick & throttle
>> we were quickly under control. But it is not something you will get
>> away with under 3000ft.
>> Our final test was to deliberately run out of fuel. With plenty in
>> the other tank!
>> So we simply cruised around for a further 15 mins or so, until
>> finally the engine cooughed & spluttered. There was plenty of time
>> to switch pump on and change tanks and away she went. So no dramas
>> at all.
>> Having completed our tests it was back up to 7000ft t play on the
>> overcast for a short while.
>> So in conclusion, there is nothing to be feared about running a
>> tank dry. So long as the starter works, or you have sufficient
>> height.
>> However, if you have totally run out of fuel, it will happily
>> continue to turn. So bearing in mind you have little or no oil
>> pressure, then there is very little time to coursen up the prop to
>> minimise drag. And if you are thinking of saving the engine on your
>> forced landing, then you need to drop the flap and stall for a
>> while to get the engine to stop.
>> So what a fun evening. Just wish I had taken the camera with me.
>> If anyone else has done such tests, it would be great to hear from
>> you. Or if anyone has any other thoughts on such matters.
>> Neil
>> ps- Take off with Sarah PIC at Warbirds over Wanaka a couple of
>> weeks back. Osh may be bigger, but Wanaka surely has the best
>> setting anywhere for an airshow.
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Engine stop tests. |
Just gotta love it....!
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neil & Sarah
Colliver
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine stop tests.
You're kidding! Neil hasn't got the balls to do it . He cheated and took the
test pilot with him who has got the balls to do it!! I certainly wasn't
going to do it with him. I haven't got any balls full stop!
Sarah
definitely do not archive
On 9/04/2008, at 8:17 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Awesome job Neil! I did shut off fuel on mine and let the prop
> windmill, but as I lack the balls that you have, I didn't
> stop the prop. For you though, the man who's going to fly to
> OSH from NZ....you've definitely got the cahones to tackle
> such tests. :)
>
> With a windmilling prop, you can't really hardly even tell that
> the engine has stopped, and a restart is dirt simple.
>
> Glad you're having such a blast!
>
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Neil & Sarah Colliver wrote:
>> Hi
>> I would like to report on some tests we did this evening.
>> We wanted to know what would happen when the engine stops. In
>> flight! We have a Barratts IO540, standard compression, with the MT
>> 3 blade prop, dual mags.
>> The object of the exercise was to see just what happens when the
>> fuel runs out in one tank, and how easy it is to re-start.
>> First exercise was to practise some forced landings in case we
>> really couldn't restart it. So complete with clearance from our
>> local Airforce base, and with one of their squadron leaders in the
>> right hand seat, the tower fully briefed on what we were doing, off
>> we set to 5000ft.
>> There was a relatively strong wind of about 35 knots at 2000ft & 25
>> gusting 30 on the ground . So we came up a bit short (just a bit)
>> on the runway. I was reminded then that I need to practice forced
>> landings from all heights, not just pattern (or circuit) height.
>> Then it was back up to 5000ft.
>> Cool the engine a bit, then ( all in controlled airspace I hasten
>> to add), we cut mixture to full idle cut off. The engine just kept
>> on going at about 500 rpm in the glide at about 80 knots or so, so
>> eventually with full flap, and mushing down at about 55 knots, we
>> managed to finally get it to stop. It's certainly odd seeing the
>> prop stopped, and the ground so far below. Yes we do know that it
>> is less than ideal for the prop to drive the engine, but we wanted
>> to do the tests. There is no doubt that if the engine stops, the
>> glide rate is about 200 ft/m better with the prop in full course.
>> So it was full rich, full fine, and about 1/2 inch. Fuel pump on, a
>> flick of the starter and away it went. So no problems there at all.
>> The next test was a bit harder, because we wanted to check if we
>> could start the engine without the starter (just in case of a flat
>> battery / broken starter etc.) I've had two occasions where the
>> engine started, but the starter failed in the process. So I was
>> unable to restart.
>> With the prop stopped again, we went flaps up, full rich,full fine,
>> 1/2 inch on the throttle and entered a dive.
>> The prop looked as if someone was trying to hand swing it (though
>> at 4500ft and rapidly decreasing, that was unlikely!)
>> After a few seconds it finally passed TDC, then again, and
>> eventually it did restart after having lost about 2600ft, and at a
>> speed of about 130-150 knots.
>> Very quickly it builds up revs, so pulling back on stick & throttle
>> we were quickly under control. But it is not something you will get
>> away with under 3000ft.
>> Our final test was to deliberately run out of fuel. With plenty in
>> the other tank!
>> So we simply cruised around for a further 15 mins or so, until
>> finally the engine cooughed & spluttered. There was plenty of time
>> to switch pump on and change tanks and away she went. So no dramas
>> at all.
>> Having completed our tests it was back up to 7000ft t play on the
>> overcast for a short while.
>> So in conclusion, there is nothing to be feared about running a
>> tank dry. So long as the starter works, or you have sufficient
>> height.
>> However, if you have totally run out of fuel, it will happily
>> continue to turn. So bearing in mind you have little or no oil
>> pressure, then there is very little time to coursen up the prop to
>> minimise drag. And if you are thinking of saving the engine on your
>> forced landing, then you need to drop the flap and stall for a
>> while to get the engine to stop.
>> So what a fun evening. Just wish I had taken the camera with me.
>> If anyone else has done such tests, it would be great to hear from
>> you. Or if anyone has any other thoughts on such matters.
>> Neil
>> ps- Take off with Sarah PIC at Warbirds over Wanaka a couple of
>> weeks back. Osh may be bigger, but Wanaka surely has the best
>> setting anywhere for an airshow.
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Engine stop tests. |
Ahhhhhhhh yes, and if there's anyone who would know Neil, it
would be his wife. ;) Glad you're keeping him honest there
Sarah!
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Neil & Sarah Colliver wrote:
>
> You're kidding! Neil hasn't got the balls to do it . He cheated and took
> the test pilot with him who has got the balls to do it!! I certainly
> wasn't going to do it with him. I haven't got any balls full stop!
>
> Sarah
> definitely do not archive
> On 9/04/2008, at 8:17 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
>>
>> Awesome job Neil! I did shut off fuel on mine and let the prop
>> windmill, but as I lack the balls that you have, I didn't
>> stop the prop. For you though, the man who's going to fly to
>> OSH from NZ....you've definitely got the cahones to tackle
>> such tests. :)
>>
>> With a windmilling prop, you can't really hardly even tell that
>> the engine has stopped, and a restart is dirt simple.
>>
>> Glad you're having such a blast!
>>
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> Neil & Sarah Colliver wrote:
>>> Hi
>>> I would like to report on some tests we did this evening.
>>> We wanted to know what would happen when the engine stops. In flight!
>>> We have a Barratts IO540, standard compression, with the MT 3 blade
>>> prop, dual mags.
>>> The object of the exercise was to see just what happens when the fuel
>>> runs out in one tank, and how easy it is to re-start.
>>> First exercise was to practise some forced landings in case we really
>>> couldn't restart it. So complete with clearance from our local
>>> Airforce base, and with one of their squadron leaders in the right
>>> hand seat, the tower fully briefed on what we were doing, off we set
>>> to 5000ft.
>>> There was a relatively strong wind of about 35 knots at 2000ft & 25
>>> gusting 30 on the ground . So we came up a bit short (just a bit) on
>>> the runway. I was reminded then that I need to practice forced
>>> landings from all heights, not just pattern (or circuit) height.
>>> Then it was back up to 5000ft.
>>> Cool the engine a bit, then ( all in controlled airspace I hasten to
>>> add), we cut mixture to full idle cut off. The engine just kept on
>>> going at about 500 rpm in the glide at about 80 knots or so, so
>>> eventually with full flap, and mushing down at about 55 knots, we
>>> managed to finally get it to stop. It's certainly odd seeing the prop
>>> stopped, and the ground so far below. Yes we do know that it is less
>>> than ideal for the prop to drive the engine, but we wanted to do the
>>> tests. There is no doubt that if the engine stops, the glide rate is
>>> about 200 ft/m better with the prop in full course.
>>> So it was full rich, full fine, and about 1/2 inch. Fuel pump on, a
>>> flick of the starter and away it went. So no problems there at all.
>>> The next test was a bit harder, because we wanted to check if we
>>> could start the engine without the starter (just in case of a flat
>>> battery / broken starter etc.) I've had two occasions where the
>>> engine started, but the starter failed in the process. So I was
>>> unable to restart.
>>> With the prop stopped again, we went flaps up, full rich,full fine,
>>> 1/2 inch on the throttle and entered a dive.
>>> The prop looked as if someone was trying to hand swing it (though at
>>> 4500ft and rapidly decreasing, that was unlikely!)
>>> After a few seconds it finally passed TDC, then again, and eventually
>>> it did restart after having lost about 2600ft, and at a speed of
>>> about 130-150 knots.
>>> Very quickly it builds up revs, so pulling back on stick & throttle
>>> we were quickly under control. But it is not something you will get
>>> away with under 3000ft.
>>> Our final test was to deliberately run out of fuel. With plenty in
>>> the other tank!
>>> So we simply cruised around for a further 15 mins or so, until
>>> finally the engine cooughed & spluttered. There was plenty of time to
>>> switch pump on and change tanks and away she went. So no dramas at all.
>>> Having completed our tests it was back up to 7000ft t play on the
>>> overcast for a short while.
>>> So in conclusion, there is nothing to be feared about running a tank
>>> dry. So long as the starter works, or you have sufficient height.
>>> However, if you have totally run out of fuel, it will happily
>>> continue to turn. So bearing in mind you have little or no oil
>>> pressure, then there is very little time to coursen up the prop to
>>> minimise drag. And if you are thinking of saving the engine on your
>>> forced landing, then you need to drop the flap and stall for a while
>>> to get the engine to stop.
>>> So what a fun evening. Just wish I had taken the camera with me.
>>> If anyone else has done such tests, it would be great to hear from
>>> you. Or if anyone has any other thoughts on such matters.
>>> Neil
>>> ps- Take off with Sarah PIC at Warbirds over Wanaka a couple of weeks
>>> back. Osh may be bigger, but Wanaka surely has the best setting
>>> anywhere for an airshow.
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 30
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|
As both GRT and AFS leap frog each other with features, the question I'm
attempting to answer is which platform (Horizon HX or AFS 4500) has the best
platform for implementing all the new software enhancements without
requiring future hardware updates. Both have processor updates and both
have graphic enhancements. However, I'm having difficulties locating any
information that allows an objective comparison.
If either company is sharing more detailed information and SnF, inquiring
minds want to know. All that can be found on their web sites is marketing
data sheets. It sure would be nice to get engineering specs. Since that's
not likely either, I would be interested in hearing any subjective
evaluations of these units by anyone at SnF.
Thanks,
bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: AFS Systems
I spent some time with Rob this morning. The screen on the 4500 is very
nice. It is glossy, and although I have seen glossy screens give more glare
in sunlight, Rob says that in their testing it is easier to see. It is
about 1,000 nits, whereas the 3500 is about 500, if I remember correctly.
According to Rob, all of the units still do the same stuff, although you get
get to some features easier and more quickly on the 4500 because of the
joystick and extra knob. However, with the faster processor (which may
become available on the 3500 as an upgrade) they will be able to offer more
things like the synthetic terrain, etc. They didn't have their approach
plates demo working this morning, but it should be this afternoon Rob said.
It's pretty sweet how you can cross-feed flight planning stuff between the
AFS and a Garmin 430/530 or even a 396/496. They also don't have the
weather up and running yet here, but should tomorrow, I think he said. I
will be stopping back by. They currently only have Nexrad and one other
thing (I think the METARS/TAFS) setup, but are working on the rest.
So, in answer to your question, the $1,700 (or $1,500 as stated by Rob this
morning) difference is the screen, the processor, the extra knob and the
joystick so far.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
Message 31
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|
This is a perfect question for Stein of SteinAir or Dewey Conroy of
Pacific Coast Avionics. They are probably both taking all kinds of
orders and will address this after returning. Many inquiring minds want
to know exactly these questions.
I would like to see an EFIS system which can annunciate remotely mounted
and controlled avionics without taking the financial dive with the
Garmin G900X national debt decision. I am impressed with Robin's
purchase but it is too rich for my blood. Synthetic Vision, HITS,
Chartview, SafeTaxi, Terrain, Traffic and Weather with the capability to
go IFR. Vertical Autopilot GPS steer with the AFS 4500 is a great
start.
John
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 2:30 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: AFS Systems
As both GRT and AFS leap frog each other with features, the question I'm
attempting to answer is which platform (Horizon HX or AFS 4500) has the
best platform for implementing all the new software enhancements without
requiring future hardware updates. Both have processor updates and both
have graphic enhancements. However, I'm having difficulties locating
any information that allows an objective comparison.
If either company is sharing more detailed information and SnF,
inquiring minds want to know. All that can be found on their web sites
is marketing data sheets. It sure would be nice to get engineering
specs. Since that's not likely either, I would be interested in hearing
any subjective evaluations of these units by anyone at SnF.
Thanks,
bob
Message 32
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aXZlDQoNClJvYmluLi4uYSBub3RlIG9mIGNhdXRpb24uLi5vbmx5IGZvciBleHBlcmltZW50YWxz
Li4uY2VydGlmaWVkcyB3aWxsIGNvc3QgeW91IGEgZmV3IG1vcmUgJCQkJA0KDQogDQo
Message 33
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This does not answer your very good question, but, keep in mind that Rob is
supplying and thus receiving support from Honeywell. He is also the
supplier to the Glasair TWTT program. Both imply a strong company and
product. Not sure what connections GRT has, beyond themselves. Both have
excellent reputations for product and service. Rob is not likely to come
out with HITS, since Honeywell has investigated that and dismissed it as not
worth it, for whatever reason. The HITS for GRT is not the same as the HITS
for Chelton. Not even sure what the GRT HITS is, but I don't think it can
be classified as true HITS. You are the integrator (aka Garmin 900), so
look closely at how these utilize and talk to autopilot, GPS, Nav/Com,
traffic data. Also, if IFR, what do they have relative to charts, plates,
updates, costs. etc. Who supplies their AHARS and what is the testing that
goes into the respective units. I agree, it certainly would help one of
them or both to have a more detailed comparison of what they offer, and how
the equipment is superior in terms of actual flying.
do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 2:30 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: AFS Systems
As both GRT and AFS leap frog each other with features, the question I'm
attempting to answer is which platform (Horizon HX or AFS 4500) has the best
platform for implementing all the new software enhancements without
requiring future hardware updates. Both have processor updates and both
have graphic enhancements. However, I'm having difficulties locating any
information that allows an objective comparison.
If either company is sharing more detailed information and SnF, inquiring
minds want to know. All that can be found on their web sites is marketing
data sheets. It sure would be nice to get engineering specs. Since that's
not likely either, I would be interested in hearing any subjective
evaluations of these units by anyone at SnF.
Thanks,
bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: AFS Systems
I spent some time with Rob this morning. The screen on the 4500 is very
nice. It is glossy, and although I have seen glossy screens give more glare
in sunlight, Rob says that in their testing it is easier to see. It is
about 1,000 nits, whereas the 3500 is about 500, if I remember correctly.
According to Rob, all of the units still do the same stuff, although you get
get to some features easier and more quickly on the 4500 because of the
joystick and extra knob. However, with the faster processor (which may
become available on the 3500 as an upgrade) they will be able to offer more
things like the synthetic terrain, etc. They didn't have their approach
plates demo working this morning, but it should be this afternoon Rob said.
It's pretty sweet how you can cross-feed flight planning stuff between the
AFS and a Garmin 430/530 or even a 396/496. They also don't have the
weather up and running yet here, but should tomorrow, I think he said. I
will be stopping back by. They currently only have Nexrad and one other
thing (I think the METARS/TAFS) setup, but are working on the rest.
So, in answer to your question, the $1,700 (or $1,500 as stated by Rob this
morning) difference is the screen, the processor, the extra knob and the
joystick so far.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
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Jesse,
Can you share any experiences you have had with the PMags? Put any in your planes?
Any recent problems that you are aware of?
Thanks,
Nick
--------
Nick Leonard
RV-10 (40015) Finish
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175573#175573
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| Subject: | NVFR avionics help |
Guys I have decided to change my 10 to NVFR and was wondering if anyone
had some ideas on an easy way to upgrade.
My current setup is
DYNON D180
Garmin 327 Transponder
SL40 Radio
Garmin 296 GPS
Vertical card compass
Backup ALT and ASI
Intercom
So my question is what would be the simplest way to upgrade to NVFR .
The Australian regs say you must have a TSO GPS or VOR or ADF.
Should I just get a new GPS?
regards Chris
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| Subject: | Engine stop tests. |
Neil,
Fantastic write up, thanks for all the very valuable information. I had
planned to do similar tests down the road but your experience builds a lot
of confidence in the mean time.
Just to add to your statement that running a tank dry isn't a dramatic
event, in the Skybolt (same engine) I was told the best (actually only) way
to know the aux tank was dry was to hear the engine start to fade from fuel
starvation. I was never impressed with that idea, but there's no fuel gauge
for that tank. Worked great every time.
Marcus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neil & Sarah
Colliver
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 12:48 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Engine stop tests.
Hi
I would like to report on some tests we did this evening.
We wanted to know what would happen when the engine stops. In flight!
We have a Barratts IO540, standard compression, with the MT 3 blade prop,
dual mags.
The object of the exercise was to see just what happens when the fuel runs
out in one tank, and how easy it is to re-start.
First exercise was to practise some forced landings in case we really
couldn't restart it. So complete with clearance from our local Airforce
base, and with one of their squadron leaders in the right hand seat, the
tower fully briefed on what we were doing, off we set to 5000ft.
There was a relatively strong wind of about 35 knots at 2000ft & 25 gusting
30 on the ground . So we came up a bit short (just a bit) on the runway. I
was reminded then that I need to practice forced landings from all heights,
not just pattern (or circuit) height.
Then it was back up to 5000ft.
Cool the engine a bit, then ( all in controlled airspace I hasten to add),
we cut mixture to full idle cut off. The engine just kept on going at about
500 rpm in the glide at about 80 knots or so, so eventually with full flap,
and mushing down at about 55 knots, we managed to finally get it to stop.
It's certainly odd seeing the prop stopped, and the ground so far below. Yes
we do know that it is less than ideal for the prop to drive the engine, but
we wanted to do the tests. There is no doubt that if the engine stops, the
glide rate is about 200 ft/m better with the prop in full course.
So it was full rich, full fine, and about 1/2 inch. Fuel pump on, a flick of
the starter and away it went. So no problems there at all.
The next test was a bit harder, because we wanted to check if we could start
the engine without the starter (just in case of a flat battery / broken
starter etc.) I've had two occasions where the engine started, but the
starter failed in the process. So I was unable to restart.
With the prop stopped again, we went flaps up, full rich,full fine,
1/2 inch on the throttle and entered a dive.
The prop looked as if someone was trying to hand swing it (though at 4500ft
and rapidly decreasing, that was unlikely!)
After a few seconds it finally passed TDC, then again, and eventually it did
restart after having lost about 2600ft, and at a speed of about 130-150
knots.
Very quickly it builds up revs, so pulling back on stick & throttle we were
quickly under control. But it is not something you will get away with under
3000ft.
Our final test was to deliberately run out of fuel. With plenty in the other
tank!
So we simply cruised around for a further 15 mins or so, until finally the
engine cooughed & spluttered. There was plenty of time to switch pump on and
change tanks and away she went. So no dramas at all.
Having completed our tests it was back up to 7000ft t play on the overcast
for a short while.
So in conclusion, there is nothing to be feared about running a tank dry. So
long as the starter works, or you have sufficient height.
However, if you have totally run out of fuel, it will happily continue to
turn. So bearing in mind you have little or no oil pressure, then there is
very little time to coursen up the prop to minimise drag. And if you are
thinking of saving the engine on your forced landing, then you need to drop
the flap and stall for a while to get the engine to stop.
So what a fun evening. Just wish I had taken the camera with me.
If anyone else has done such tests, it would be great to hear from you. Or
if anyone has any other thoughts on such matters.
Neil
ps- Take off with Sarah PIC at Warbirds over Wanaka a couple of weeks back.
Osh may be bigger, but Wanaka surely has the best setting anywhere for an
airshow.
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: NVFR avionics help |
Substitute SL30 for the SL40. Gives you TSO VOR and ILS. Otherwise, for more
space, but older technology, you could put used KX155 or Mk12D in panel. The
SL30 should fit in same space, maybe same tray as SL40.
On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 4:20 PM, Chris and Susie McGough <VHMUM@bigpond.com>
wrote:
> Guys I have decided to change my 10 to NVFR and was wondering if anyone
> had some ideas on an easy way to upgrade.
>
> My current setup is
>
> DYNON D180
> Garmin 327 Transponder
> SL40 Radio
> Garmin 296 GPS
> Vertical card compass
> Backup ALT and ASI
> Intercom
>
> So my question is what would be the simplest way to upgrade to NVFR . The
> Australian regs say you must have a TSO GPS or VOR or ADF.
>
> Should I just get a new GPS?
>
> regards Chris
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | NVFR avionics help |
Chris,
I have a Garmin 480 and absolutely love it. Since Garmin announced
they would no longer produce it you might be able to find them for a better
deal before the supply runs out. I'm just speculating but I suspect a
number of folks will shy away from them out of support concerns. With the
480 (or 430 or 530) you'd have GPS and VOR available.
Marcus
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Susie
McGough
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:21 PM
Subject: RV10-List: NVFR avionics help
Guys I have decided to change my 10 to NVFR and was wondering if anyone had
some ideas on an easy way to upgrade.
My current setup is
DYNON D180
Garmin 327 Transponder
SL40 Radio
Garmin 296 GPS
Vertical card compass
Backup ALT and ASI
Intercom
So my question is what would be the simplest way to upgrade to NVFR . The
Australian regs say you must have a TSO GPS or VOR or ADF.
Should I just get a new GPS?
regards Chris
Message 39
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| Subject: | NVFR avionics help |
Does the inbuilt CDI capability on the 430 and/or SL-30 meet the VOR
indication/OBS requirement, or do you need a separate CDI/OBS (eg GI-106
or MD-200 etc)?
cheers,
Ron
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper
Sent: Wednesday, 9 April 2008 9:24 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: NVFR avionics help
Chris,
I have a Garmin 480 and absolutely love it. Since Garmin
announced they would no longer produce it you might be able to find them
for a better deal before the supply runs out. I'm just speculating but
I suspect a number of folks will shy away from them out of support
concerns. With the 480 (or 430 or 530) you'd have GPS and VOR
available.
Marcus
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and
Susie McGough
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:21 PM
To: RVs_in_Aus@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: RV10-List: NVFR avionics help
Guys I have decided to change my 10 to NVFR and was wondering if
anyone had some ideas on an easy way to upgrade.
My current setup is
DYNON D180
Garmin 327 Transponder
SL40 Radio
Garmin 296 GPS
Vertical card compass
Backup ALT and ASI
Intercom
So my question is what would be the simplest way to upgrade to
NVFR . The Australian regs say you must have a TSO GPS or VOR or ADF.
Should I just get a new GPS?
regards Chris
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Message 40
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N204GS flew for the first time today. I have been telling folks that it
would be done on Tuesday ever since I started building. The airplane flew
perfectly.
Gary
40274
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| Subject: | NVFR avionics help |
Might want to think about upgrading your SL40 to an SL30 and adding a CDI,
such as the GI-102A. Upgrade your 294 to a 496 for terrain, weather. Of
course you'll have nav lights, landing light, strobes, plus panel lights and
overhead map reading lights. Basically, night VFR should be capable of
"light" or "rudimentary" IFR. The problem with NVFR is that you can easily
get into an IFR environment (unseen clouds that you enter, loss of a horizon
due to pitch black seas or landscape). I love flying at night, but have
found that since going from the well lit Northeastern US to the relative
darkness of the Northwest US, night flying has a whole new meaning. I
wouldn't do it where I am located now without being IFR rated and having an
IFR panel. Not unless it was clear skies and city lights.
John
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Susie
McGough
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 4:21 PM
Subject: RV10-List: NVFR avionics help
Guys I have decided to change my 10 to NVFR and was wondering if anyone had
some ideas on an easy way to upgrade.
My current setup is
DYNON D180
Garmin 327 Transponder
SL40 Radio
Garmin 296 GPS
Vertical card compass
Backup ALT and ASI
Intercom
So my question is what would be the simplest way to upgrade to NVFR . The
Australian regs say you must have a TSO GPS or VOR or ADF.
Should I just get a new GPS?
regards Chris
Message 42
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FW: RV10-List: Jack StandsGood on you!
regards Chris 388
----- Original Message -----
From: gary
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 10:07 AM
Subject: RV10-List: RV Grin
N204GS flew for the first time today. I have been telling folks that
it would be done on Tuesday ever since I started building. The airplane
flew perfectly.
Gary
40274
Message 43
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| Subject: | RE: [RVs_in_Aus] NVFR avionics help |
Hi Chris,
You seem to have most of what is required already. Like has already been
said I would possibly recommend upgrading to the SL-30 or check out the
NARCO NAV 122 (entire VOR fits into a single instrument home). However (and
it is a big however), the regulations state that you must have an aid in the
aircraft which is usable at your destination. This would mean you can only
proceed to a field with VOR or carry fuel to use an alternate that does.
Check if you also need a TSO indicator/CDI. I am aware the Dynon can do
this but not sure the Australian view of it.
You must also fix your position at regular intervals when airborne. It
might be difficult to do that legally with only a VOR.
ADF is the other option and you do not want to do that. They are heavy,
difficult to install and getting decommissioned all over the place.
TSO GPS (146) would be the best as you can legally use that to navigate
anywhere. However that is expensive, both to purchase and maintenance of
the database.
This is where some reality comes in I guess. I have done a few NVFR trips
in my time. The last time was to and from Cowra several times during the
convention. It was extremely dark. I was lucky enough to have an ADF / VOR
and TSO GPS all dialled in. None of that was any use at all until I got the
airport lights on. There was no way I was going to find the place. On the
way home to Sydney on Sunday night I left after dark. Again I was basically
flying on instruments the whole way home. I have never been that
comfortable flying at night and far prefer day IFR to NVFR.
I guess it comes down to how much flying you want to do at night and what
your equipment requirements are.
Also you will need lights, cabin lights, instrument lights . lights ,
lights, more weight..
The last thing that no one has mentioned .. At MINIMUM a second handheld com
with fresh batteries. If you loose COM1 you are in a world of pain if you
cannot get the lights on. I think you will find you need an alternate with
someone in attendance or where the lights are always on if you don't have a
second com anyway.
Richard
_____
From: RVs_in_Aus@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:RVs_in_Aus@yahoogroups.com.au]
On Behalf Of Chris and Susie McGough
Sent: Wednesday, 9 April 2008 9:21 AM
Cc: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: [RVs_in_Aus] NVFR avionics help
Guys I have decided to change my 10 to NVFR and was wondering if anyone had
some ideas on an easy way to upgrade.
My current setup is
DYNON D180
Garmin 327 Transponder
SL40 Radio
Garmin 296 GPS
Vertical card compass
Backup ALT and ASI
Intercom
So my question is what would be the simplest way to upgrade to NVFR . The
Australian regs say you must have a TSO GPS or VOR or ADF.
Should I just get a new GPS?
regards Chris
__._,_.___
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Message 44
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Gary, very nice looking plane. Nice grin, too. Congratulations. Data
forthcoming?
John
do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 5:07 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RV Grin
N204GS flew for the first time today. I have been telling folks that it
would be done on Tuesday ever since I started building. The airplane flew
perfectly.
Gary
40274
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: NVFR avionics help |
Thanks John I am in Australia and are only doing the NVfR as I am
studying commercial Pilot licence and NVFR is helpful.
I was thinking I could just swap the radio to SL 30 and plug into Dynon?
The 296 has terrain and the weather feature is not available in
Australia
I have all lights etc it just the avionics
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: John Jessen
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 10:10 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: NVFR avionics help
Might want to think about upgrading your SL40 to an SL30 and adding a
CDI, such as the GI-102A. Upgrade your 294 to a 496 for terrain,
weather. Of course you'll have nav lights, landing light, strobes, plus
panel lights and overhead map reading lights. Basically, night VFR
should be capable of "light" or "rudimentary" IFR. The problem with
NVFR is that you can easily get into an IFR environment (unseen clouds
that you enter, loss of a horizon due to pitch black seas or landscape).
I love flying at night, but have found that since going from the well
lit Northeastern US to the relative darkness of the Northwest US, night
flying has a whole new meaning. I wouldn't do it where I am located now
without being IFR rated and having an IFR panel. Not unless it was
clear skies and city lights.
John
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and
Susie McGough
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 4:21 PM
To: RVs_in_Aus@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: RV10-List: NVFR avionics help
Guys I have decided to change my 10 to NVFR and was wondering if
anyone had some ideas on an easy way to upgrade.
My current setup is
DYNON D180
Garmin 327 Transponder
SL40 Radio
Garmin 296 GPS
Vertical card compass
Backup ALT and ASI
Intercom
So my question is what would be the simplest way to upgrade to NVFR
. The Australian regs say you must have a TSO GPS or VOR or ADF.
Should I just get a new GPS?
regards Chris
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 46
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|
| Subject: | Re: NVFR avionics help |
Thanks John I am in Australia and are only doing the NVfR as I am
studying commercial Pilot licence and NVFR is helpful.
I was thinking I could just swap the radio to SL 30 and plug into Dynon?
The 296 has terrain and the weather feature is not available in
Australia
I have all lights etc it just the avionics
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: John Jessen
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 10:10 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: NVFR avionics help
Might want to think about upgrading your SL40 to an SL30 and adding a
CDI, such as the GI-102A. Upgrade your 294 to a 496 for terrain,
weather. Of course you'll have nav lights, landing light, strobes, plus
panel lights and overhead map reading lights. Basically, night VFR
should be capable of "light" or "rudimentary" IFR. The problem with
NVFR is that you can easily get into an IFR environment (unseen clouds
that you enter, loss of a horizon due to pitch black seas or landscape).
I love flying at night, but have found that since going from the well
lit Northeastern US to the relative darkness of the Northwest US, night
flying has a whole new meaning. I wouldn't do it where I am located now
without being IFR rated and having an IFR panel. Not unless it was
clear skies and city lights.
John
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and
Susie McGough
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 4:21 PM
To: RVs_in_Aus@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: RV10-List: NVFR avionics help
Guys I have decided to change my 10 to NVFR and was wondering if
anyone had some ideas on an easy way to upgrade.
My current setup is
DYNON D180
Garmin 327 Transponder
SL40 Radio
Garmin 296 GPS
Vertical card compass
Backup ALT and ASI
Intercom
So my question is what would be the simplest way to upgrade to NVFR
. The Australian regs say you must have a TSO GPS or VOR or ADF.
Should I just get a new GPS?
regards Chris
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 47
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What a beautiful day. It is raining cats and dogs out west.
Congrats.
John
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 5:07 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RV Grin
N204GS flew for the first time today. I have been telling folks that it
would be done on Tuesday ever since I started building. The airplane
flew perfectly.
Gary
40274
Message 48
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| Subject: | NVFR avionics help |
You might want the SL30 hooked to both the Dynon and a CDI, incase the Dynon
goes away you could switch over. Or, get a battery backup for the Dynon.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Susie
McGough
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: NVFR avionics help
Thanks John I am in Australia and are only doing the NVfR as I am studying
commercial Pilot licence and NVFR is helpful.
I was thinking I could just swap the radio to SL 30 and plug into Dynon?
The 296 has terrain and the weather feature is not available in Australia
I have all lights etc it just the avionics
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: John Jessen <mailto:n212pj@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 10:10 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: NVFR avionics help
Might want to think about upgrading your SL40 to an SL30 and adding a CDI,
such as the GI-102A. Upgrade your 294 to a 496 for terrain, weather. Of
course you'll have nav lights, landing light, strobes, plus panel lights and
overhead map reading lights. Basically, night VFR should be capable of
"light" or "rudimentary" IFR. The problem with NVFR is that you can easily
get into an IFR environment (unseen clouds that you enter, loss of a horizon
due to pitch black seas or landscape). I love flying at night, but have
found that since going from the well lit Northeastern US to the relative
darkness of the Northwest US, night flying has a whole new meaning. I
wouldn't do it where I am located now without being IFR rated and having an
IFR panel. Not unless it was clear skies and city lights.
John
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Susie
McGough
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 4:21 PM
Subject: RV10-List: NVFR avionics help
Guys I have decided to change my 10 to NVFR and was wondering if anyone had
some ideas on an easy way to upgrade.
My current setup is
DYNON D180
Garmin 327 Transponder
SL40 Radio
Garmin 296 GPS
Vertical card compass
Backup ALT and ASI
Intercom
So my question is what would be the simplest way to upgrade to NVFR . The
Australian regs say you must have a TSO GPS or VOR or ADF.
Should I just get a new GPS?
regards Chris
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 49
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Awesome job Gary! Glad it went without a hitch! So how are you going
to get the 2 RV's to OSH now? :) Did you have the wheel fairings
off for the first flight or on? Well, I'll cut my typing short now,
because you've got lots of flyoff to finish!
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
gary wrote:
>
>
> N204GS flew for the first time today. I have been telling folks that it
> would be done on Tuesday ever since I started building. The airplane
> flew perfectly.
>
>
>
> Gary
>
> 40274
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Message 50
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The GRT website product data shows the HX at $4000 a piece and $3000 for
dual AHRS so that would be $11000 for a dual screen dual AHRS package.
So I am a little confused about this new HX flyer quoting $8350...can
someone clarify with GRT booth.
Thanks
Chris Lucas
#40072
----- Original Message -----
From: Robin Marks
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 1:43 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: GRT HX
It's amazing where we have come in the last 7 years with avionics.
Looking at ACS online I see a Century Vacuum Gyro HSI for almost
$11,000. The PDF below details a full IFR Dual Color Screen, Dual AHRS
With Probes for $8,350. Talk about a powerful package providing
remarkable situational awareness for under $10K. Flying behind a panel
like this was only a dream 10 years ago and now it's cost effective
enough to consider it as a backup system. Amazing.
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 8:38 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: GRT HX
Looks like GRT is getting closer to having the HX ready. Looking
pretty darn good for the price! I think this pretty much negates the
last attractive item with the BMA stuff and with a much more proven
track record in support.
http://www.grtavionics.com/File/SNF%20HX%20RELEASE2(1).pdf
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 51
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Note that the $8,350 is for the Horizon I series not the HX. Not sure what
the package price is on the HX.
Bill S
7a with Dual Horizon I wanna be HX :-(
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 12:43 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: GRT HX
It's amazing where we have come in the last 7 years with avionics. Looking
at ACS online I see a Century Vacuum Gyro HSI for almost $11,000. The PDF
below details a full IFR Dual Color Screen, Dual AHRS With Probes for
$8,350. Talk about a powerful package providing remarkable situational
awareness for under $10K. Flying behind a panel like this was only a dream
10 years ago and now it's cost effective enough to consider it as a backup
system. Amazing.
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 8:38 AM
Subject: RV10-List: GRT HX
Looks like GRT is getting closer to having the HX ready. Looking pretty
darn good for the price! I think this pretty much negates the last
attractive item with the BMA stuff and with a much more proven track record
in support.
http://www.grtavionics.com/File/SNF%20HX%20RELEASE2(1).pdf
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 52
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|
| Subject: | Re: Engine stop tests. |
Hey Neil, et al
A quick question from a newbie. If the prop/crank is turning, why no oil pressure?
I don't doubt it, I just don't understand it. I have no experience with aircraft
engines, just automotive that use mechanical driven oil pumps taken off distributor
gear, etc. which don't care if the pistons, wheels, starter, etc. is
powering it.
I know I can find complete books/manuals, and eventually I will, but it's easier
and quicker to ask here.
Thanks, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
doors almost finished, pants on, WHEW!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175624#175624
Message 53
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*C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S ! ! ! !
*Deems*
*
Message 54
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gotcha!
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Schlatterer
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 9:10 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: GRT HX
Note that the $8,350 is for the Horizon I series not the HX. Not sure
what the package price is on the HX.
Bill S
7a with Dual Horizon I wanna be HX :-(
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 12:43 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: GRT HX
It's amazing where we have come in the last 7 years with avionics.
Looking at ACS online I see a Century Vacuum Gyro HSI for almost
$11,000. The PDF below details a full IFR Dual Color Screen, Dual AHRS
With Probes for $8,350. Talk about a powerful package providing
remarkable situational awareness for under $10K. Flying behind a panel
like this was only a dream 10 years ago and now it's cost effective
enough to consider it as a backup system. Amazing.
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 8:38 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: GRT HX
Looks like GRT is getting closer to having the HX ready. Looking
pretty darn good for the price! I think this pretty much negates the
last attractive item with the BMA stuff and with a much more proven
track record in support.
http://www.grtavionics.com/File/SNF%20HX%20RELEASE2(1).pdf
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 55
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I think Jesse only builds RV-10's so I doubt it. They are just now releasing
their 6cyl models so I don't think there have been any significant hours built
up to give a good idea on their MTBF. If you search various archives of the
4cyl homebuilts you will find a lot's of references from one extreme to the other.
Overall they seem to have an excellent idea but have been plagued with
lots of gremlins in their design. Many people have had no problems but it seems
an equal number of people have had consistent problems.
I for one really hope they get all their problems licked and end up with a solid
product. Lots of potential there and they seem to e steadily improving.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Leonard
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 5:22 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: P-Mag!
Jesse,
Can you share any experiences you have had with the PMags? Put any in your planes?
Any recent problems that you are aware of?
Thanks,
Nick
--------
Nick Leonard
RV-10 (40015) Finish
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175573#175573
Message 56
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Awesome Gary. Look forward to seeing it at OSH! You are bringing it to OS
H right. :)
Michael
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of gary
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 7:07 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RV Grin
N204GS flew for the first time today. I have been telling folks that it wo
uld be done on Tuesday ever since I started building. The airplane flew pe
rfectly.
Gary
40274
Message 57
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Way to go Gary. From only that one photo I see lots of nice features to
your build. Plus all painted and ready to go. Enjoy your fly off.
Do you have photos of your panel & interior. I am most interested in
your interior side walls & door treatment.
Wahoooo!
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 5:07 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RV Grin
N204GS flew for the first time today. I have been telling folks that it
would be done on Tuesday ever since I started building. The airplane
flew perfectly.
Gary
40274
Message 58
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| Subject: | Garmin 1000 additions |
Looks like Garmin is sleeping on the job either. They've added some very n
ice synthetic vis and HITS to the G1000. Probably only a matter of time b
efore it trickles down to the G900.
http://www.aopa.org/pilot/firstlook/080408garminsvs.html
Michael
Message 59
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 1000 additions |
The way I understand it, it will already be available on the G900X.
So I don't think there will be a long wait. It definitely improves
the system.
The one thing that does disappoint me a bit is the super hi-res
type color patterning. I think too many companies try to stretch
to the "WOW" factor rather than ultimate safety-conscious design
on some of that stuff. It's not only a waste of processor on
displaying graphics, but check out that G900TERRAIN photo with the
big red and orange mountain, and see how the compass in the center
looks.....I understand they're trying to figure out how to improve
it already, but man, if you can't see the text and data fields well,
then you're really looking at some safety downfalls all to make
for a pretty display. Safety and functionality before glitter.
But, at least they finally brought the features up to a level that
really improves it's attractiveness. It should serve people
much better now if they figure out the color thing.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
> Looks like Garmin is sleeping on the job either. Theyve added some
> very nice synthetic vis and HITS to the G1000. Probably only a
> matter of time before it trickles down to the G900.
>
> * *
>
> *http://www.aopa.org/pilot/firstlook/080408garminsvs.html*
>
> * *
>
> *Michael*
>
Message 60
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The only thing I know about them is that Barrett told me it is the
only electronic ignition that he would recommend. Beyond that, I have
no research or first hand experience of any kind. I have been very
eagerly awaiting the release of the 6-cyl version to see how they do,
especially since the lightspeed is a much more complicated installation.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Apr 8, 2008, at 5:21 PM, Nick Leonard wrote:
>
> Jesse,
>
> Can you share any experiences you have had with the PMags? Put any
> in your planes? Any recent problems that you are aware of?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick
>
> --------
> Nick Leonard
> RV-10 (40015) Finish
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175573#175573
>
>
Message 61
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Congratulations Gary! That's fantastic news. Now, since you like
building so much, what is the next project going to be? :-)
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Apr 8, 2008, at 7:07 PM, gary wrote:
>
> N204GS flew for the first time today. I have been telling folks
> that it would be done on Tuesday ever since I started building. The
> airplane flew perfectly.
>
> Gary
> 40274
> <RV Grin.jpg>
Message 62
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| Subject: | NVFR avionics help |
swap the sl40 for an sl30 you then have a tsoed vor/loc/gs. the utput can be
shownon the Dynon
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Susie
McGough
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 4:21 PM
Subject: RV10-List: NVFR avionics help
Guys I have decided to change my 10 to NVFR and was wondering if anyone had
some ideas on an easy way to upgrade.
My current setup is
DYNON D180
Garmin 327 Transponder
SL40 Radio
Garmin 296 GPS
Vertical card compass
Backup ALT and ASI
Intercom
So my question is what would be the simplest way to upgrade to NVFR . The
Australian regs say you must have a TSO GPS or VOR or ADF.
Should I just get a new GPS?
regards Chris
Message 63
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Congratulations Gary - let's see some more pix.
John Testement
HYPERLINK "mailto:jwt@roadmapscoaching.com"jwt@roadmapscoaching.com
40321
Richmond, VA
Painting
do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 8:07 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RV Grin
N204GS flew for the first time today. I have been telling folks that it
would be done on Tuesday ever since I started building. The airplane flew
perfectly.
Gary
40274
Checked by AVG.
7:30 AM
Checked by AVG.
7:30 AM
Message 64
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| Subject: | Air field flow for the 10 |
I am in the process of working the intake and exhaust heat flow and am
wondering if anyone has done a field flow on the RV-10. It makes sense for
air to exhaust into a low pressure area and enter in a high pressure area.
Hense the need for the air field flow, if that is what it is called.
Thanks in advance
Bob K
Baby steps along once I hit the finishing part.
Message 65
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| Subject: | Re: NVFR avionics help |
Garmin GNC 300 XL (?) comes to mind as a swap for the SL40. It is a great little
IFR GPS/Comm with moving map. They are pretty inexpensive as well.
David Maib
40559
On Tuesday, April 08, 2008, at 06:31PM, "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM@bigpond.com>
wrote:
>Guys I have decided to change my 10 to NVFR and was wondering if anyone had some
ideas on an easy way to upgrade.
>
>My current setup is
>
>DYNON D180
>Garmin 327 Transponder
>SL40 Radio
>Garmin 296 GPS
>Vertical card compass
>Backup ALT and ASI
>Intercom
>
>So my question is what would be the simplest way to upgrade to NVFR . The Australian
regs say you must have a TSO GPS or VOR or ADF.
>
>Should I just get a new GPS?
>
>regards Chris
>
>
Message 66
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Outstanding Gary!! Congratulations. I can't wait to see the airplane in Minnesota
now that winter is gone. (almost)
David Maib
40559
On Tuesday, April 08, 2008, at 07:19PM, "gary" <speckter@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>N204GS flew for the first time today. I have been telling folks that it
>would be done on Tuesday ever since I started building. The airplane flew
>perfectly.
>
>
>
>Gary
>
>40274
>
>
Message 67
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| Subject: | Re: The King has no Clothes |
I cannot imagine why anyone flying an RV10 does not install the very excellent
Rivethead door pins. They are tedious to install and adjust, but they are really
sweet and center the closure on the door giving a positive feel when closing
your door plus the whole install feels very strong
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Q/B Kit - Ready to exit cabin top/door purgatory
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175658#175658
Message 68
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Awesome - love that smile (grin). Plane look beautiful. Verrry exciting.
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Q/B Kit - Ready to exit cabin top/door purgatory
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175659#175659
Message 69
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| Subject: | Re: The King has no Clothes |
Maybe because you pay and they may or may not turn up. Sorry to be negative
but if the hat fits.
regards Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel@Pacbell.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 2:58 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: The King has no Clothes
>
> I cannot imagine why anyone flying an RV10 does not install the very
> excellent Rivethead door pins. They are tedious to install and adjust, but
> they are really sweet and center the closure on the door giving a positive
> feel when closing your door plus the whole install feels very strong
>
> --------
> OSH '08 or Bust
> Q/B Kit - Ready to exit cabin top/door purgatory
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175658#175658
>
>
>
Message 70
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| Subject: | Re: NVFR avionics help |
Obviously you are going through the time consuming process of panel planning. After
beating around the bush for 2 months, I went with the SL30 as most of the
threads here also indicate. I tried for a long time to save the extra two thousand
plus dollars on the SL40 (radio only). I finally realized that it was false
economy. Yes(Ron) you do need the additional CDI and Glide slope lights. The
AFS3500 has (built in) the CDI indicators for guidance but you also need an
audio panel for the Marker Beacon lights. Yes that is another $1000. My panel
is being finished by the very nice folks at Aerotronics in Billings, MT. While
I have not yet received the panel, I am very impressed with the excellent customer
interaction and pro-active approach that Aerotronic takes. I got three
bids on my panel, but went with them on my intuition and the advice of a member
of the EAA advisory panel. I will give another report after I P/U the panel
later this month. This is my thinking that this a a serous NVFR panel and will
get me out of trouble if caught in IFR conditions. It seem to be a very cost
effective setup. Probably could save more with Dynon
AFS3500 (1x)
Garmin SL30 Nav/Com
Garmin 327 Mode "C" Transponder
Garmin 340 Audio
Garmin 496
Digiflight II VS
Trutrak B/U ADI Backup 2.25"
UMA Altimeter Backup 2.25"
UMA A/S Backup 2.25"
Xaon XRX TCAS Beta (talks to 496)
PAI Vertical Card compass
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Q/B Kit - Ready to exit cabin top/door purgatory
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175661#175661
Message 71
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| Subject: | Re: NVFR avionics help |
Mike ....my 10 is just about ready to fly and as per email you can see my
current setup and wanted to go from there.
thanks anyway regards Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel@Pacbell.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 3:39 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: NVFR avionics help
>
> Obviously you are going through the time consuming process of panel
> planning. After beating around the bush for 2 months, I went with the SL30
> as most of the threads here also indicate. I tried for a long time to save
> the extra two thousand plus dollars on the SL40 (radio only). I finally
> realized that it was false economy. Yes(Ron) you do need the additional
> CDI and Glide slope lights. The AFS3500 has (built in) the CDI indicators
> for guidance but you also need an audio panel for the Marker Beacon
> lights. Yes that is another $1000. My panel is being finished by the very
> nice folks at Aerotronics in Billings, MT. While I have not yet received
> the panel, I am very impressed with the excellent customer interaction and
> pro-active approach that Aerotronic takes. I got three bids on my panel,
> but went with them on my intuition and the advice of a member of the EAA
> advisory panel. I will give another report after I P/U the panel later
> this month. This is my thinking that this a a !
> serous NVFR panel and will get me out of trouble if caught in IFR
> conditions. It seem to be a very cost effective setup. Probably could save
> more with Dynon
>
> AFS3500 (1x)
> Garmin SL30 Nav/Com
> Garmin 327 Mode "C" Transponder
> Garmin 340 Audio
> Garmin 496
> Digiflight II VS
> Trutrak B/U ADI Backup 2.25"
> UMA Altimeter Backup 2.25"
> UMA A/S Backup 2.25"
> Xaon XRX TCAS Beta (talks to 496)
> PAI Vertical Card compass
>
> --------
> OSH '08 or Bust
> Q/B Kit - Ready to exit cabin top/door purgatory
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175661#175661
>
>
>
Message 72
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| Subject: | Re: The King has no Clothes |
Here's another vote for the Rivethead latch pin setup. It's not
exceptionally hard to install. I made a thick linen/phenolic
[Micarta] template and used it as a drill guide. The doors close
easily and are _very_ solid once closed.
Yes, it's hard to get in contact with Dave, but my deliveries of
several of his items were timely. I don't know of anyone who paid and
did not get what he paid for on any of his items.
I have had no problem with simply sending payment for what I want, and
the quality is a delight.
No relationship, just a satisfied customer.
John Ackerman 40458
do not archive
On Apr 8, 2008, at 10:16 PM, Chris and Susie McGough wrote:
> >
> Maybe because you pay and they may or may not turn up. Sorry to be
> negative but if the hat fits.
> regards Chris
>> I cannot imagine why anyone flying an RV10 does not install the
>> very excellent Rivethead door pins
>
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