Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:25 AM - Re: Doors coming off (PILOTDDS@aol.com)
2. 05:17 AM - Re: Re: Doors coming off (James K Hovis)
3. 05:24 AM - Re: Doors coming off (James K Hovis)
4. 07:55 AM - Re: Door closing (John Gonzalez)
5. 08:58 AM - FW: RV-List: RV safety RV_Stats-1.pdf - (John Cox)
6. 09:16 AM - door opening (David McNeill)
7. 09:45 AM - RV safety RV_Stats-1.pdf - (David McNeill)
8. 11:35 AM - FW: Door pins (David McNeill)
9. 11:35 AM - Emailing: IMG_0035 (David McNeill)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Doors coming off |
Worth mentioning is many light twins,for example a c-310 can lose a door if
it comes unlatched during flight.This is clearly creating a problem on the
rv-10 and we need to come up with a secondary latch system that can be released
from the outside if rescue is necesary.I used a canopy latch on the forward
bottom of the doors.A seemingly simple solution but does not allow rescuers easy
access to the cabin.Do cessna aircraft allow outside door entry if the handles
are in the down position as in normal flight? 728DD 175
hours
**************
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Doors coming off |
Typically, a fastened shear joint is designed so the entire shear
force is transferred in the shank of the fastener, not in the head,
even in a countersunk head. Also, having threads in bearing on the
structure is a no-no. Tension loads would be transferred by the
fastener head and nut, but typical aircraft design practice is to
design for shear loadings at joints whereever possible. That said, I
don't think there's anything wrong with the design of the -10 doors.
If the latching pins are engaged well, the hinges look robust engough
for the air loadings. As is inherent with gull-wing door designs, once
a door opens in flight and swings out past the boundary layer, it
basically becomes another short, fat wing. At 80+ knots, that results
in a rather large increase in the forces acting on the door and would
result in failures as seen in this discussion. I'd like to see if
there's a history of door failures on certified aircraft with
gull-wing doors.
KH
On 4/11/08, Bill DeRouchey <billderou@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I looked over the pictures of the door departure and noticed something in
> the upper hinges.
>
> It looked like the area around the hinges had little resin between the two
> surfaces.
>
> Also, the screw heads were flattened to bury them in resin so they would
> not turn when tightened from below. I would guess this was to create a
> beautiful look to the top of the door with no screw head showing. However,
> the shear force is absorbed at the large diameter of the screw head and the
> mating nut surface. Any grinding of the screw head removes area available
> for shear and its only shear that is securing the top of the door to the
> hinges. The deeper the screw head is set into the door the less holding
> strength is available from the fiberglass. So burying the screw heads cause
> two problems, and if they are over torqued cracking the fiberglass a third
> problem arises.
>
> Are others using this technique to make their doors beautiful?
>
> Look carefully at the rear door guide/protector/fuselage hole - it would
> appear that the rod never reached far beyond the teflon guide, otherwise the
> protector would be torn off.
>
>
> Bill DeRouchey
> N939SB, flying
>
> tomhanaway <tomhanaway@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> I'd like to see Jesse S. hop in here when he gets a chance. I understand
> he's a little busy right now
> [Wink]
>
> I looked at his door at Sun & Fun today. Looks like he added both a small
> interior handle near the rear of the door and a secondary latch that seals
> the inside front side of the door.
>
> Tom H.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176289#176289
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Doors coming off |
Thanks Tim. Just my opinion: mag sensors are notorious for having a
wide sensing range. I think micro-switches can be rigged to a finer
setting to verify proper pin engagement.
On 4/11/08, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
>
> That's what the door sensors van's provides do...they're magnetic
> sensors, and there are magnets in the tips of the pins.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> James K Hovis wrote:
> >
> > Being a lurker, I've read this thread with interest. Just to make a
> > general comment, for good structural "retention" of the door, I feel
> > the best set-up is for the door pins to pass completely through the
> > opening frame on the fuselage. Of course, I'm basing this on the
> > pictures I've seen so far. How does the warning light system "sense"
> > full locking with the "blueprint" set-up for the door? Seems to me it
> > would be a simple matter to add a couple micro-switches to the back
> > side of the door frames so they light up (or better turn off a light)
> > when the pins are fully engaged into the frames therefore indicating
> > proper lock.
> >
>
>
Message 4
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I think this idea with additional alignment pins pointing into the cabin in
to the sill would be great.
As for door stiffness, I remember Chris Johnson's comments on this and he w
as thinking about injecting expandable foam after the doors were laminated.
I was against that idea, but from this idea what I did was to use two addi
tional points where the inner and outer door shells laminate together.
I placed a 5" X 7" block of Spyder foam, Aerospace Composite Products, in t
he rear area of the door, just above where the aft pin goes in. The second
area was my hardwood block 3" X 3", above the fore pin, this to be used as
a hard point for a locking system. There was enough of the 3D glass in the
kit to make these mods. My doors are very stiff and any flexing will only b
e from the top half of the door, some which will help the door as it comes
down and closes in that last 1/4 inch.
The bevel pointing out is in IMO is to help suck the door in on closing the
latch. Once the latch is closed, the pins should only have a shear load on
them, but depending on their fit, it should only be the force used to over
come any door warp, sealing and then the inflight, pulling pressure on the
door. The tighter the door fit atound its' perimeter, the less side to side
action and with the door stiffness, there should be very little chance of
movement. That is as long as the door is properly latched.
John G 409 Skiing
list@matronics.comSubject: RV10-List: Door closing
Wayne,
I'm not so sure it's slop in the hinge, the door just twists or flexes too
easily. Now maybe a set of guide pins that engage the door sill, pointing s
traight into the cabin from the outside may be a good option. With close to
lerance's this would stop forward and aft movement of the door and align it
in the correct position for latching as long as the door was completely cl
osed and flush.
Rick Sked
40185----- Original Message -----From: "Wayne Hadath" <whadath@rogers.com>T
o: rv10-list@matronics.comSent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 5:10:16 AM (GMT-08
00) America/Los_AngelesSubject: RV10-List: Re: RV10-List Digest: 60 Msgs -
04/09/08
Fellow Builders
I am in the process of working on the doors and the main problem I see is t
hat the alignment of the door is controlled by the hinge placement. In my s
et of hinges there was 1/32 of side play which I shimmed out. If the hinges
are installed precisely then the door drops down and closes into the corre
ct position.The only time the door is guided into position is on the last 1
/4 inches of travel when the bevelled door edges come into contact with the
fuselage. Now in the ideal setting which I guess would be wings off, preci
sely bushed and installed hinges and standing on the floor outside the airc
raft while closing the door, all things work beautifully. But, in real life
you will sitting inside the aircraft so there will be no visual references
to help guide the door, there will be a hinges/pin mechanism that is forev
er wearing and causing more play (fore and aft movement of the door) and wh
en you close the door you will be relying to a large extent on that last 1/
4 inch bevel to guide the door into the correct position. I am not comforta
ble with relying on the last 1/4 inch. In my opinion the major mod that sho
uld be made is a method of guiding the door into it's correct position. The
guide should come into play long before the last 1/4 inch. I am making my
door in such a way that it is guided into the correct position and it will
be impossible to throw the pins if the door is not properly seated. I belie
ve that the latching mechanism is adequate but mods to the receiver area
and to the pin ends can easily be made in any shop.
Doors!!! and I thought building a canopy was a pain!
Wayne Hadath
F1 Rocket C-FAUH
250 hours
RV 10 Fusealge top and doors.
RV10-List Digest Server <rv10-list@matronics.com> wrote:
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----------------------------RV10-List Digest Archive---Total Messages Poste
d Wed 04/09/08: 60---------------------------------------------------------
-Today's Message Index:----------------------1. 12:45 AM - ATP plug (Chris
and Susie McGough)2. 12:58 AM - Re: Re: The King has no Clothes (Steven DiN
ieri)3. 01:08 AM - Re: Door handles (Steven DiNieri)4. 03:37 AM - Re: Door
handles (Bob Leffler)5. 04:12 AM - Re: RV Grin (Bob Leffler)6. 04:52 AM - R
e: Re: NVFR avionics help (Rodger Todd)7. 05:16 AM - Re: Re: The King has n
o Clothes (John Testement)8. 05:18 AM - Re: RV Grin (gary)9. 06:16 AM - Re:
RV Grin (gary)10. 06:44 AM - Re: P-Mag! (marcausman)11. 06:56 AM - 2 blade
Hartzell- SnF attendees (Pascal)12. 07:05 AM - Re: Air field flow for the
10 (Bobby J. Hughes)13. 07:42 AM - Re: NVFR avionics help (GRANSCOTT@aol.co
m)14. 08:35 AM - Re: RV Grin (Deems Davis)15. 08:49 AM - Re: Door handles (
Steven DiNieri)16. 08:54 AM - Re: Garmin 1000 additions (SteinAir, Inc.)17.
08:58 AM - Re: Re: The King has no Clothes (Steven DiNieri)18. 09:12 AM -
Re: Engine stop tests. (Bill DeRouchey)19. 09:26 AM - Re: Garmin 1000 addit
ions (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))20. 09:46 AM - Re: Garmin 1000 additions
(Tim Olson)21. 09:49 AM - Re: Garmin 1000 additions (Tim Olson)22. 10:07 AM
- Re: Garmin 1000 additions (John W. Cox)23. 11:24 AM - Re: Engine stop te
sts. (Neil & Sarah Colliver)24. 11:43 AM - Re: Re: P-Mag! (Larry Rosen)25.
01:04 PM - Re: Garmin 1000 additions (John Ackerman)26. 02:59 PM - Re: Re:
The King has no Clothes (Scott Schmidt)27. 03:02 PM - Re: Garmin 1000 addit
ions (Patrick Thyssen)28. 03:14 PM - Engine Special (Jeff Carpenter)29. 03:
24 PM - Re: Re: The King has no Clothes (Tim Olson)30. 03:39 PM - Re: Re: T
he King has no Clothes (Rene Felker)31. 03:40 PM - Re: Re: The King has no
Clothes (PJ Seipel)32. 03:41 PM - Re: Re: The King has no Clothes ()33. 03:
47 PM - Re: Garmin 1000 additions (McGANN, Ron)34. 03:54 PM - Re: Re: The K
ing has no Clothes (Deems Davis)35. 04:07 PM - Re: Re: The King has no Clot
hes (Bob Leffler)36. 04:51 PM - Re: Re: The King has no Clothes (Steven DiN
ieri)37. 05:09 PM - Re: Garmin 1000 additions (John W. Cox)38. 05:15 PM - R
e: Re: The King has no Clothes (John W. Cox)39. 05:24 PM - Re: Garmin 1000
additions (John W. Cox)40. 05:48 PM - Re: AFS Systems (Rick Sked)41. 05:59
PM - Re: Engine Special (John Cram)42. 06:30 PM - Re: Re: The King has no C
lothes (David McNeill)43. 06:32 PM - Re: Re: The King has no Clothes (Larry
Rosen)44. 06:51 PM - Re: Re: The King has no Clothes (David McNeill)45. 07
:03 PM - Re: Re: P-Mag! (Jesse Saint)46. 07:49 PM - Re: Engine Special (Pas
cal)47. 07:54 PM - Re: Door handles (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))48. 07:58 PM - D
oors coming off (Chris and Susie McGough)49. 08:04 PM - Re: Re: The King ha
s no Clothes (Rick Sked)50. 08:14 PM - Re: Doors coming off (Tim Olson)51.
08:26 PM - Re: Doors coming off (Ben Westfall)52. 08:33 PM - Re: Engine sto
p tests. (Marcus Cooper)53. 08:35 PM - Re: RV Grin (Marcus Cooper)54. 08:42
PM - Re: Doors coming off (David McNeill)55. 09:11 PM - Re: Doors coming o
ff (John W. Cox)56. 09:15 PM - Re: Engine stop tests. (John W. Cox)57. 09:3
3 PM - Re: Doors coming off (Perry, Phil)58. 10:36 PM - Re: Doors coming of
f (Kelly McMullen)59. 10:59 PM - Re: Re: The King has no Clothes (John Acke
rman)60. 11:25 PM - Re: Doors coming off (John Dunne)______________________
__________ Message 1 _____________________________________Time: 12:45:08 AM
PST USFrom: "Chris and Susie McGough" Subject: RV10-List: ATP plugJust rec
ieved visors from Aviation Tech Products. Came within 10 days to Australia
and answered all questions .Great service.Chris 388________________________
________ Message 2 _____________________________________Time: 12:58:06 AM P
ST USFrom: "Steven DiNieri" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: The King has no Clo
thesWhen I went to install a set in my rv10, I modified them to be much eas
ierto install. After seeing my mods coupled with the shipping delays I wasa
sked to reproduce a similar product by a few builders. I think they are ave
ry good anchor for the door rods to latch into, and should add a margin ofs
trength to the latch mech. I do offer them on my website (availableimmediat
ely ;) sorry for the commercial announcement, I just want all toknow there
are options...Steve dinieriIflyrv10.com > -----Original Message-----> From:
owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matr
onics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 12:59 AM>
s> > > I cannot imagine why anyone flying an RV10 does not install > the ve
ry excellent Rivethead door pins. They are tedious to > install and adjust,
but they are really sweet and center the > closure on the door giving a po
sitive feel when closing your > door plus the whole install feels very stro
ng> > --------> OSH '08 or Bust> Q/B Kit - Ready to exit cabin top/door pur
gatory> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com
/viewtopic.php?p=175658#175658> > > > > > > > Photoshare, and much much m
ore:> > > ________________________________ Message 3 ______________________
_______________Time: 01:08:32 AM PST USFrom: "Steven DiNieri" Subject: RE:
RV10-List: Door handlesMichael, i have been offering a handle kit similar t
o the Hendricks, but ina complete kit form, thinner in profile, specificall
y designed for the rv10.My design allows the latching system to remain in p
lace as vans designed.when i started designing the handles the primary idea
was to leave all thedoor latch mech alone. my handles simply replace the o
utside handle, just ina different position. they also allow standard lock c
ylinders for locking(just like the Hendricks) and i am introducing on the w
ebsite this week aflush stainless lock system for all rv10's. easily instal
led into evenflying aircraft. sorry to toot my own horn, but with all the t
alk about door and latches andthe importance of such systems i just want al
l to know there are options...Steven dinieriiflyrv10.com_____ From: owner-r
v10-list-server@matronics.com[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]
On Behalf Of RV Builder(Michael Sausen)Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 9:33 A
MSubject: RV10-List: Door handlesWith all the talk about the doors I've bee
n doing some thinking regardingthe factory setup vs the aftermarket handles
. I like the flush look andoperation of the handles like Hendricks and othe
rs but the lack of apositive locking detent really makes me nervous. I also
want a way to lock the doors so they can't be opened by anypasserby. The i
s especially important with the TSA rumblings that all GAaircraft must have
locked doors. It's not a law yet but I wouldn't besurprised to see it conc
eded to stop something bigger. Frankly having thekind of investment in thes
e aircraft that we do it's a bit silly to not havethe doors locked somehow.
I know, if a thief really wants in he will getin. But a thief also isn't g
oing to stop at a plane with locks if a bettertarget is around or if it wil
l take too long or be too noticeable tocircumvent them.So to that end someo
ne had posted a while back a way to make a baggagedoor lock work with the s
tandard Van's door handles. Anyone still have thelinks to that?Michael_____
___________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Time: 03:37:57 AM PST USFrom: "Bob Leffler" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door ha
ndlesSteven,I see that you've added many new products to your site. The ele
vator trimbracket and the aluminum door guides caught my eye. Are you resel
lingRivethead-Aero's product or are you manufacturing these yourself?Thanks
,BobFrom: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com[mailto:owner-rv10-list-serve
r@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven DiNieriSent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008
4:06 AMSubject: RE: RV10-List: Door handlesMichael, i have been offering a
handle kit similar to the Hendricks, but ina complete kit form, thinner in
profile, specifically designed for the rv10.My design allows the latching
system to remain in place as vans designed.when i started designing the han
dles the primary idea was to leave all thedoor latch mech alone. my handles
simply replace the outside handle, just ina different position. they also
allow standard lock cylinders for locking(just like the Hendricks) and i am
introducing on the website this week aflush stainless lock system for all
rv10's. easily installed into evenflying aircraft. sorry to toot my own hor
n, but with all the talk about door and latches andthe importance of such s
ystems i just want all to know there are options...Steven dinieriiflyrv10.c
om________________________________ Message 5 ______________________________
_______Time: 04:12:40 AM PST USFrom: "Bob Leffler" Subject: RE: RV10-List:
RV GrinGreat news Gary!I'm looking forward to seeing you, Brenda, and both
your RVs this summer.My wife is definitely coming and is anxious to meet al
l the RV-10 spouses.Please let us know how your Phase I goes.See ya in 109
days!bobFrom: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com[mailto:owner-rv10-list-s
erver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of garySent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 8:07 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RV GrinN204GS flew for the first time today. I have bee
n telling folks that itwould be done on Tuesday ever since I started buildi
ng. The airplane flewperfectly.Gary40274________________________________ Me
ssage 6 _____________________________________Time: 04:52:06 AM PST USFrom:
Rodger Todd Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: NVFR avionics helpHi Chris,You'll n
eed to replace (or add to) the SL-40 with an SL-30 which will give youa TSO
'd VOR/LOC/GS. To this you will have to add an MD200 series CDI to maintain
the TSO.Why don't you contact Jake (can't find his e-mail address at the mo
ment) to confirmthat you don't need anything else avionics wise? Also why n
oit try the OzRV Yahoo group site?Looking forward to hearing about the firs
t flight - Spring is in the air!Rodger--- On Wed, 9/4/08, Chris and Susie M
cGough wrote:> From: Chris and Susie McGough > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re:
NVFR avionics help> To: rv10-list@matronics.com> Date: Wednesday, 9 April,
2008, 8:13 AM> McGough" > > Mike ....my 10 is just about ready to fly and a
s per email> you can see my > current setup and wanted to go from there.> >
thanks anyway regards Chris> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Air
Mike" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 3:39 PM> Subject: RV10-List:
Re: NVFR avionics help> > > "AirMike" > >> > Obviously you are going throug
h the time consuming> process of panel > > planning. After beating around t
he bush for 2 months,> I went with the SL30 > > as most of the threads here
also indicate. I tried for> a long time to save > > the extra two thousand
plus dollars on the SL40 (radio> only). I finally > > realized that it was
false economy. Yes(Ron) you do> need the additional > > CDI and Glide slop
e lights. The AFS3500 has (built in)> the CDI indicators > > for guidance b
ut you also need an audio panel for the> Marker Beacon > > lights. Yes that
is another $1000. My panel is being> finished by the very > > nice folks a
t Aerotronics in Billings, MT. While I> have not yet received > > the panel
, I am very impressed with the excellent> customer interaction and > > pro-
active approach that Aerotronic takes. I got three> bids on my panel, > > b
ut went with them on my intuition and the advice of a> member of the EAA >
> advisory panel. I will give another report after I P/U> the panel later >
> this month. This is my thinking that this a a !> > serous NVFR panel and
will get me out of trouble if> caught in IFR > > conditions. It seem to be
a very cost effective setup.> Probably could save > > more with Dynon> >>
> AFS3500 (1x)> > Garmin SL30 Nav/Com> > Garmin 327 Mode "C" Transponder> >
Garmin 340 Audio> > Garmin 496> > Digiflight II VS> > Trutrak B/U ADI Back
up 2.25"> > UMA Altimeter Backup 2.25"> > UMA A/S Backup 2.25"> > Xaon XRX
TCAS Beta (talks to 496)> > PAI Vertical Card compass> >> > --------> > OSH
'08 or Bust> > Q/B Kit - Ready to exit cabin top/door purgatory> >> >> >>
>> > Read this topic online here:> >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewto
pic.php?p=175661#175661> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ____________
_______________________________________________ Yahoo! For Good helps you m
ake a difference http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/___________________
_____________ Message 7 _____________________________________Time: 05:16:30
AM PST USFrom: "John Testement" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: The King has n
o ClothesSteve,How much for a set?John Testementjwt@roadmapscoaching.com403
21Richmond, VAPaintingdo not archive-----Original Message-----From: owner-r
v10-list-server@matronics.com[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]
On Behalf Of Steven DiNieriSent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 3:55 AMSubject:
RE: RV10-List: Re: The King has no ClothesWhen I went to install a set in m
y rv10, I modified them to be much easierto install. After seeing my mods c
oupled with the shipping delays I wasasked to reproduce a similar product b
y a few builders. I think they are avery good anchor for the door rods to l
atch into, and should add a margin ofstrength to the latch mech. I do offer
them on my website (availableimmediately ;) sorry for the commercial annou
ncement, I just want all toknow there are options...Steve dinieriIflyrv10.c
om > -----Original Message-----> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike> Sent:
Wednesday, April 09, 2008 12:59 AM> To: rv10-list@matronics.com> Subject:
RV10-List: Re: The King has no Clothes> > > I cannot imagine why anyone fly
ing an RV10 does not install the very > excellent Rivethead door pins. They
are tedious to install and adjust, > but they are really sweet and center
the closure on the door giving a > positive feel when closing your door plu
s the whole install feels very > strong> > --------> OSH '08 or Bust> Q/B K
it - Ready to exit cabin top/door purgatory> > > > > Read this topic online
here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175658#175658> > >
> > > > > Photoshare, and much much more:> > > Checked by AVG. 7:10 AMCheck
ed by AVG. 7:10 AM________________________________ Message 8 ______________
_______________________Time: 05:18:16 AM PST USFrom: "gary" Subject: RE: RV
10-List: RV GrinLike all builders, I need to tackle the honey-do list. I ha
ve been lax inthat area.Gary_____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.co
m[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse SaintSent
: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:48 PMSubject: Re: RV10-List: RV GrinCongratula
tions Gary! That's fantastic news. Now, since you like buildingso much, wha
t is the next project going to be? :-)do not archiveJesse SaintSaint Aviati
on, Inc.jesse@saintaviation.comCell: 352-427-0285Fax: 815-377-3694On Apr 8,
2008, at 7:07 PM, gary wrote:N204GS flew for the first time today. I have
been telling folks that itwould be done on Tuesday ever since I started bui
lding. The airplane flewperfectly.Gary40274________________________________
Message 9 _____________________________________Time: 06:16:35 AM PST USFro
m: "gary" Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV GrinUnlike Deems I am not a very good
documenter of my work, but here are a fewpix.Gary40274_____ From: owner-rv1
0-list-server@matronics.com[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On
Behalf Of John TestementSent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 11:07 PMSubject: RE:
RV10-List: RV GrinCongratulations Gary - let's see some more pix.John Test
ementjwt@roadmapscoaching.com40321Richmond, VAPaintingdo not archive_____ F
rom: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@mat
ronics.com] On Behalf Of garySent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 8:07 PMSubject:
RV10-List: RV GrinN204GS flew for the first time today. I have been telling
folks that itwould be done on Tuesday ever since I started building. The a
irplane flewperfectly.Gary402744/8/2008 7:30 AMChecked by AVG.4/8/2008 7:30
AM________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________
________Time: 06:44:10 AM PST USSubject: RV10-List: Re: P-Mag!From: "marcau
sman" I've had them for about 320 hours on my RV-7. Early on I had two fail
ures and athird (which was my fault, you have to be very careful making the
ignition wires).So I replaced one with a slick mag. The difference between
the slick magand the p-mag are very obvious when running the engine on onl
y one mag (fortesting, run-up etc.). Along the way, Brad and Tom were very
helpful. More importantly, though, the last 160 hours or so have been flawl
ess. So I canonly deduce that they've worked out the bugs, at least based o
n my experience.If and when I build an RV-10 I'll put them on for sure.----
----Marc Ausmanhttp://www.verticalpower.comRV-7 IO-390 FlyingRead this topi
c online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175686#175686__
______________________________ Message 11 _________________________________
___Time: 06:56:46 AM PST USFrom: "Pascal" Subject: RV10-List: 2 blade Hartz
ell- SnF attendeesSnF Attendees;http://www.hartzellprop.com/pressroom/pr_ht
m/pr_11_09_07.htmCould someone walk over to Hartzell and ask if the 2 blade
Carbon blade would be a good option for the RV-10? If so what would be nee
ded to get one? I am thinking although it's for the Diamond DA40 now, Hartz
ell may provide it for other aircraft as well. Since the three blade is in
the Cirrus this blade may very well work for us.Thanks!Pascal______________
__________________ Message 12 ____________________________________Time: 07:
05:09 AM PST USSubject: RE: RV10-List: Air field flow for the 10From: "Bobb
y J. Hughes" Bob,RV6 pressure plot attached. The pressure areas on our 10's
should bevery similar if your using the stock cowl. The pressure does chan
gedepending on angle of attack. Here is another good site with lots ofpress
ure data. Different airframe but the basic principles apply.http://www.melm
oth2.com/=== message truncated ==
get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 5
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| Subject: | FW: RV-List: RV safety RV_Stats-1.pdf - |
This post is read by a number of readers on this list as well, but for
those who do not follow it there, the value is clear in reviewing the
attached Ron Wanttaja PDF.
Dumb Pilot Errors are the leading cause of RV accidents (significantly).
Maintenance is seldom the cause because there are so many experts out
there on such popular kits. Builder Errors for RVs are greater than
Homebuilts in general and may be a result of many assuming that
techniques used by others and factory plans are without fault and the
builders blindly move ahead with the moving herd. Try being the first
for the Acme 1000 and every step is carefully considered and reviewed.
Fuel Exhaustion in RVs is inexcusably high and is significantly higher
than other homebuilts. (Tell me Why?)
Now, here is where you should each be focusing. These statistics are not
yet updated for calendar 2005 and 2006 (the RV-10 began gaining flight
hours in 2005). Ron concluded that lower accident rates for RVs is a
result of generally higher hours of aeronautical experience and more
advanced ratings of RV pilots. If you have ever looked over the field
of RVers at EAA functions you could conclude they tend to be much older
and therefore less bold. Conclusion, the RV-10 is significantly more
complex and challenging than our little brother RV-6, RV-7 or RV8. A
statistically large number of RV-10 builders had/have no pilots license
(during the build) or significantly lower experience than Ron's premise.
Many of the builders are younger than his statistics imply. A high
percentage have minimally low IFR time (Tim is an exception here).
This is an opportunity in the making for rather dramatic Recurrent and
Advanced Training for Pilots from the RV-10 fleet. We have the ability
to skew the accident statistics either direction we choose. The choice
is truly ours.
Do you want to play or move with the herd? The insurance underwriters
will move these policy costs to remain profitable businessmen. Three
(possibly four) aircraft total losses and four POBs in the last five
months. 2008 is going to be a busy year.
John C - circa 2008
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Springer
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 1:05 AM
Subject: RV-List: RV safety RV_Stats-1.pdf -
Hi all,
I am sure that a lot of you have heard of or read some of Ron
Wanttaja,'s articles
He writes article and gives talks at EAA functions about safety etc.and
does statistical studies
mostly pertaining to homebuilt aircraft. I have known
him for a few years and I wrote to him and ask if he could help with the
statistic regarding
RV accidents compared to the rest of the homebuilt community
and this is what he sent me.
Jerry Springer
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 21:24:42 -0700, you wrote:
> Can can I post this on the RV-List?
> There is a discussion going on there about how to make the RV
flying
> community safer and how to compare RV accidents to the rest of
the
> homebuilt accident rates. Someone ask how to break the RVs
apart from
> the rest of the homebuilt accident statistics. I would like to
point people
> to your article or maybe you could help us out some way with
RV accident
> statistics.
I give talks to the local EAA chapters that go further than the
articles.
Attached is a page from my presentation where I discuss RV accident
causes and
compare them to the overall statistics. The data is based on accidents
from
1998 through 2004, inclusive.
"General Pilot Error" is basically mistakes in the stick-and-rudder
skills;
"SALA" stands for "Stupidity at Low Altitude," buzzing, flying up box
canyons,
etc. In my presentations, I use a red star to call attention to
interesting
results, such as the RV's higher rate in what I call 'cross-country'
accidents.
The lower rate of pilot error accidents may well be due to the higher
general
experience level of RV pilots, as shown by the median pilot hours.
During the subject period the annual fleet accident rate for all
homebuilts was
about 0.94% (e.g., almost one out of every 100 homebuilts crashes in a
given
year) and the RV fleet accident rate was almost identical (0.90%). In
contrast,
the Glasair rate was 1.11%, The overall rate for all N-numbered
aircraft was
0.63%, so homebuilts have a rate about 50% higher than the overall
fleet.
I'm currently adding 2005 and 2006 data to my database, and will be
updating the
graphs accordingly. Don't expect them to change too much, but you
never
know....
Ron
Message 6
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Considering that some of the previous door in-flight openings occurred on
takeoff (in a climb) and the door missed the airframe, it would seem
reasonable that at the onset of a problem, to immediately initiate a climb.
It appears that the only incident where the door hit the airframe was during
cruise flight. If there are other instances of same I would be interested to
hear.
Message 7
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| Subject: | RV safety RV_Stats-1.pdf - |
Given the inital guesses of primary cause of the three fatal 10 crashes (out
of 100+ flying) they seem to be spread over three categories. I do agree ,
however , that time in type and recent experience are prime considerations
of insurance companies as well as indicators of probable safe operation.
Certainly continuing to fly regularly while building will promote improved
accident stats. Another thing that will improve safety is getting real
comfortable with all the new electronics and button pushing in day VFR
before expanding the envelope. Read the accident reports where the pilot
says to the co-pilot, "wonder why its doing that?" then (sound of impact) on
the CVR.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 8:55 AM
Subject: RV10-List: FW: RV-List: RV safety RV_Stats-1.pdf -
This post is read by a number of readers on this list as well, but for those
who do not follow it there, the value is clear in reviewing the attached Ron
Wanttaja PDF.
Dumb Pilot Errors are the leading cause of RV accidents (significantly).
Maintenance is seldom the cause because there are so many experts out there
on such popular kits. Builder Errors for RVs are greater than Homebuilts in
general and may be a result of many assuming that techniques used by others
and factory plans are without fault and the builders blindly move ahead
with the moving herd. Try being the first for the Acme 1000 and every step
is carefully considered and reviewed. Fuel Exhaustion in RVs is inexcusably
high and is significantly higher than other homebuilts. (Tell me Why?)
Now, here is where you should each be focusing. These statistics are not yet
updated for calendar 2005 and 2006 (the RV-10 began gaining flight hours in
2005). Ron concluded that lower accident rates for RVs is a result of
generally higher hours of aeronautical experience and more advanced ratings
of RV pilots. If you have ever looked over the field of RVers at EAA
functions you could conclude they tend to be much older and therefore less
bold. Conclusion, the RV-10 is significantly more complex and challenging
than our little brother RV-6, RV-7 or RV8. A statistically large number of
RV-10 builders had/have no pilots license (during the build) or
significantly lower experience than Ron's premise. Many of the builders
are younger than his statistics imply. A high percentage have minimally low
IFR time (Tim is an exception here).
This is an opportunity in the making for rather dramatic Recurrent and
Advanced Training for Pilots from the RV-10 fleet. We have the ability to
skew the accident statistics either direction we choose. The choice is
truly ours.
Do you want to play or move with the herd? The insurance underwriters will
move these policy costs to remain profitable businessmen. Three (possibly
four) aircraft total losses and four POBs in the last five months. 2008 is
going to be a busy year.
John C - circa 2008
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Springer
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 1:05 AM
Subject: RV-List: RV safety RV_Stats-1.pdf -
Hi all,
I am sure that a lot of you have heard of or read some of Ron Wanttaja,'s
articles
He writes article and gives talks at EAA functions about safety etc.and does
statistical studies
mostly pertaining to homebuilt aircraft. I have known
him for a few years and I wrote to him and ask if he could help with the
statistic regarding
RV accidents compared to the rest of the homebuilt community
and this is what he sent me.
Jerry Springer
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 21:24:42 -0700, you wrote:
> Can can I post this on the RV-List?
> There is a discussion going on there about how to make the RV flying
> community safer and how to compare RV accidents to the rest of the
> homebuilt accident rates. Someone ask how to break the RVs apart from
> the rest of the homebuilt accident statistics. I would like to point
people
> to your article or maybe you could help us out some way with RV accident
> statistics.
I give talks to the local EAA chapters that go further than the articles.
Attached is a page from my presentation where I discuss RV accident causes
and
compare them to the overall statistics. The data is based on accidents from
1998 through 2004, inclusive.
"General Pilot Error" is basically mistakes in the stick-and-rudder skills;
"SALA" stands for "Stupidity at Low Altitude," buzzing, flying up box
canyons,
etc. In my presentations, I use a red star to call attention to interesting
results, such as the RV's higher rate in what I call 'cross-country'
accidents.
The lower rate of pilot error accidents may well be due to the higher
general
experience level of RV pilots, as shown by the median pilot hours.
During the subject period the annual fleet accident rate for all homebuilts
was
about 0.94% (e.g., almost one out of every 100 homebuilts crashes in a given
year) and the RV fleet accident rate was almost identical (0.90%). In
contrast,
the Glasair rate was 1.11%, The overall rate for all N-numbered aircraft
was
0.63%, so homebuilts have a rate about 50% higher than the overall fleet.
I'm currently adding 2005 and 2006 data to my database, and will be updating
the
graphs accordingly. Don't expect them to change too much, but you never
know....
Ron
Message 8
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-----Original Message-----
From: David McNeill [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 11:19 AM
Subject: Door pins
Attached are pictures of two aft pins from Van's. I tapped the tubes with a
5/16" 18 tap. Note the different bevels. We did not modify the bevels. The
full tube on picture 39 is at least .16 longer than the picture 36. There
are at least three additional turns of the tap to indicate the length
difference. Picture 35 is the pin in the closed position of the door with
the shorter bevel (sent in another message). (And yes I know I need an
aluminum cover over the latch pin.)
Your message is ready to be sent with the following file or link
attachments:
IMG_0039
IMG_0036
IMG_0037
IMG_0038
Message 9
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| Subject: | Emailing: IMG_0035 |
Your message is ready to be sent with the following file or link
attachments:
IMG_0035
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