Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:51 AM - Re: Garmin Rapair - Customer Beware (Rob Kermanj)
2. 04:48 AM - Re: Building Sequence - how long can I delay riveting the fiberglass top on? (MauleDriver)
3. 05:00 AM - Re: It's Official! (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
4. 05:21 AM - Re: Overhead Console? (johngoodman)
5. 06:23 AM - Re: Building Sequence - how long can I delay riveting the fiberglass top on? (gary)
6. 06:29 AM - Re: Re: Overhead Console? ()
7. 06:30 AM - Re: Trutrak autopilots (gengrumpy@aol.com)
8. 06:31 AM - Re: Building Sequence - how long can I delay riveting the fiberglass top on? (gary)
9. 06:54 AM - RV10 Empennage for sale (Gary Strong)
10. 11:11 AM - Re: Garmin Repair - Customer Beware (William Curtis)
11. 12:31 PM - For Sale - Navaid AP-1 Autopilot - New! (Matt Dralle)
12. 12:32 PM - Re: Van's support to international customers (John Hilger)
13. 02:33 PM - Re: Garmin Repair - Customer Beware (Steven Roberts)
14. 03:34 PM - Re: Re: Overhead Console? ()
15. 04:10 PM - Re: Garmin Repair - Customer Beware (William Curtis)
16. 04:36 PM - Re: Van's support to international customers (McGANN, Ron)
17. 04:38 PM - Re: Garmin Repair - Customer Beware (Steven Roberts)
18. 04:49 PM - Re: Garmin Repair - poor Customer support?? (pascal)
19. 05:19 PM - Re: Garmin Repair - Customer Beware (William Curtis)
20. 07:02 PM - Engine Reading in Cruise (Albert Gardner)
21. 09:14 PM - Re: Engine Reading in Cruise (n801bh@netzero.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin Rapair - Customer Beware |
A good example of Garmin getting fat and happy. I'll pray for mine to
last a while.
On May 2, 2008, at 6:22 PM, DejaVu wrote:
> Short story: if Garmin replaces a light bulb in your unit, it's
> $800. I was totally unaware but you can find the verbage in their
> warranty online. I was expecting someone to call first.
>
> Long story: Lost the transmitter on my comm radio on the 430 on the
> way back from SNF, reception was fine. Trouble shooting showed
> transmitter output was a whopping 1.5W and very noisy after the
> initial 3 second ouput of 37W. You can hear something like a relay
> within the unit kicking in right prior to going from 37W to 1.5W.
> Great, the radio is protected. Something simple is wrong. My 430
> has 130hrs on it. 2-year warranty started on purchase date so that
> expired about 7 months after first flight.
>
> Sent the unit to Garmin through a dealer (can't send it directly to
> them). Turn around time was quick - confirmed my suspecion that it
> was a simple fix. I was impressed. The damage - $875. My eye
> balls almost jumped out of their sockets. After researching a bit I
> realized that I'm not the first unhappy customer. Garmin has a flat
> repair rate of $800 for the 430, including shipping (thank
> goodness!! I wonder why my bill was $875?). They guarantee complete
> overhaul if they so deem the unit needs it. This includes cosmetics
> like worn out buttons or anything they see that's not up to par.
> Quote from the Service Report "Confirmed problem. Repaired the COMM
> board to correct the discrepancy. Updated software." Garmin's
> repair records does not contain any more details than this. When
> asked if cosmetic works were done to my unit, the answer.... no. I
> would've been surprised if there was any on such a low time unit.
>
> Sounds to me that Garmin has a good marketing strategy to keep all
> units in service at tip top overhauled shape at the expense of the
> customers. By the way, the dealer wasn't aware of this flat rate
> policy.
>
> So what's the chance of something majorly wrong with my 430 would
> happen to get a good $800 deal? Considering the cost of a new unit,
> a quick statistical calculation +/- a bunch% error says that you'll
> never make out ahead with this deal. Google what others have to say
> regarding Garmin's customer support and see for yourself. I don't
> mind supporting a good product but this feels like a log going
> through my rear end.
>
> Anh
> N591VU-flying
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Building Sequence - how long can I delay riveting the |
fiberglass top on?
That's what I was hoping to hear. I really wanted to keep going with
the composite work - doors, cowl - since all my tools are dulled and
dust is everywhere despite aggressive vacuuming.
I'm assuming that the top parts all need to be cleco'd together in order
to hang the engine for a little structural integrity?
Bill
Rick Sked wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> I fitted my cabin top and doors way back. Since then I have, put it on the gear,
hung the engine & prop, installed all the wiring, the panel, finished the
cowl/FWF/baffeling. Basically my -10 is complete without the top on. The top/windows
and the pants/faring are all that's left to do shy of hanging the wings
and final assembly..(yeah right) I found it so much easier to climb in and
out without the cabin top on the fuselage. I'm afraid as soon as the top is on
I'll see that bright light at the end of the tunnel and really start to think
I'm done.
>
> Rick Sked
> 40185
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "MauleDriver" <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
> To: "RV10-List Digest Server" <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 2, 2008 6:43:24 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
> Subject: RV10-List: Building Sequence - how long can I delay riveting the fiberglass
top on?
>
>
> I'm looking for some advice on building sequence. I finished sections
> thru 40 and now the fuselage top has been fitted but it seems to be in
> my best interest to delay riveting it until a number of tasks are done.
> It would also seems to be best to delay the upper forward fuselage
> installation until the avionics are well underway. I have the finishing
> kit inhouse and the 540 is on its way. I'm thinking that I need to
> focus on the avionics and other cockpit systems so that I can put the
> tops on.
>
> Those of you that have been thru this, what is a good way to proceed?
> What kind of flexibility do I have? What pitfalls should I avoid?
>
> So much to do and so many options.
>
> Hey Bob C - Congratulations! Can't wait to hear about the first flight.
>
> Bill "with fiberglass dust everywhere" Watson
> Durham NC
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: It's Official! |
Sorry to hear that you're still having problems, I know it has to be frustrating.
Maybe being local to Stein will help.
First flight will likely be tomorrow or Monday. I really want southerly winds
so I can use rwy 12 at MLE because of reasonable terrain in case of engine issues.
The other direction has no real good choice if turning back isn't an option.
I've waited 4.5 years, a couple of days is nothing!
Bob
--------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com <owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
Sent: Fri May 02 17:25:58 2008
Subject: RE: RV10-List: It's Official!
Congratulations. Let me know when you fly.
I flew mine up to MN. I still have OP stuff to work out with Stein but now I
am in his back yard.
Gary
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US SSA)
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 2:38 PM
Subject: RV10-List: It's Official!
Just finished up with the DAR and #40105 is now N442PM in every respect! No squawks
found during the inspection, just have to put everything back together
First flight will wait until weather conditions locally improve a bit.
Bob
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Overhead Console? |
I'm not that far along yet, but I know Dave Saylor at Aircrafters LLC in Watsonville,
CA, has advertised an overhead console in Kitplanes.
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180867#180867
Message 5
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| Subject: | Building Sequence - how long can I delay riveting the fiberglass |
top on?
I, like Rick delayed putting the top on until I ran out of excuses not to
put it on. When I finally did rivet it on, all went very well, no gotcha's.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MauleDriver
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 8:43 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Building Sequence - how long can I delay riveting the
fiberglass top on?
I'm looking for some advice on building sequence. I finished sections
thru 40 and now the fuselage top has been fitted but it seems to be in
my best interest to delay riveting it until a number of tasks are done.
It would also seems to be best to delay the upper forward fuselage
installation until the avionics are well underway. I have the finishing
kit inhouse and the 540 is on its way. I'm thinking that I need to
focus on the avionics and other cockpit systems so that I can put the
tops on.
Those of you that have been thru this, what is a good way to proceed?
What kind of flexibility do I have? What pitfalls should I avoid?
So much to do and so many options.
Hey Bob C - Congratulations! Can't wait to hear about the first flight.
Bill "with fiberglass dust everywhere" Watson
Durham NC
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Overhead Console? |
I would gladly make a version 2008 Calendar. Would like to have some pictures
(or links) of planes that have not been used before.
Some rules I sort of made up.
(1) I would prefer have pictures without people in them.
(2) Flying is preferred, but will take a good ground shot.
(3) Only use a picture that has not been used on a previous calendar page.
(4) High resolution photos are preferred.
Point me to twelve or more pics and lets go for it.
Jim Combs
N312F
40192 - Finishing (Forever it seems!)
Transition Training - Alex De Dominicis (4 Hours / 17 landings - WAY FUN!) Still
could use a little more when the time comes
===========================================================
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Overhead Console?
I hope the official photographer is on standby to assist those of us
that are schedule and distance challenged.
Whatever happened to the RV-10 calendar effort? Is a 2008 version available?
John Cox wrote:
> The light is ON for the Pacific
> NW RV-10 builder shindig next Saturday. Yeh All should contact John
> Jessen if you can fly your Rv-10 into Dietz Airpark for the get
> together.
>
> John
>
>
>
===========================================================
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Trutrak autopilots |
I echo Marcus and Tim's comments.
I have the same model and really like it and the vertical climb and
descent mode is flexible (if you want auto-throttle, gotta go be an
airline jock).
I'm still fine tuning my turn rates, but that's what's nice about it.
If you don't like the settings for you, just change them.
grumpy
n184jm
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Marcus Cooper <coop85@cableone.net>
Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 8:56 pm
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Trutrak autopilots
Dr Fred,
Sorry to hear about your experience, that is terribly frustrating on
top
of all the financial issues.
I'd like to mimic Tim's comments about the autopilot. I have the model
you
were planning on tied to the GRT EFIS and a Garmin 480. It works great
and
having the pitch controls driven by the EFIS really makes life simple.
Be
it holding an altitude, climbing/descending at a certain rate/airspeed,
or
flying the glideslope it really helps. As Tim also mentioned, you can't
trust it implicitly though as you can exceed its ability if you get too
fast/slow relative to the current trim setting and there's the old
garbage
in garbage out syndrome if you set it wrong and aren't paying attention.
Compared to the other Trutrak models my opinion is the difference in
money
spent will be long forgotten by the time your first flight occurs but
benefiting by the extra capabilities will be there forever. Having
said all
that, if you are not going to install an EFIS of some kind capable of
driving the autopilot then the answer may change a lot.
Good luck,
Marcus
40286
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred
Williams,
M.D.
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 10:08 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Trutrak autopilots
<drfred@suddenlinkmail.com>
I need a little advice from those who are IFR rated and flying.
Unfortunately, my panel shop, Accuracy avionics just went belly up this
am. (I wouldn't advise sending them any more checks) I've been
stiffed
out of an autopilot that I still haven't received yet. Now that I get
to pay double for it, I'm reconsidering how may features I need. I
planned on a Trutrak digiflight IIVSGV.
I would like to know how often one needs the vertical GPS steering
feature. Does it help eliminate setting your power and trim for a
climb/descent? I have minimal IFR training, but doesn't one set up
basically a table with power settings to see what your airplane will do
to get say a 500 ft/min descent? Looks like I could save about
$400-500
by not getting that feature.
Little miffed this am......
Trying to regain composure and just fly the airplane.......
Thanks in advance for the replies.
Dr Fred
40515
Now in panel assembly hell.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Building Sequence - how long can I delay riveting the |
fiberglass top on?
No, I was able to put the engine on without the top on and all fit later.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MauleDriver
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 6:45 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Building Sequence - how long can I delay riveting
the fiberglass top on?
That's what I was hoping to hear. I really wanted to keep going with
the composite work - doors, cowl - since all my tools are dulled and
dust is everywhere despite aggressive vacuuming.
I'm assuming that the top parts all need to be cleco'd together in order
to hang the engine for a little structural integrity?
Bill
Rick Sked wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> I fitted my cabin top and doors way back. Since then I have, put it on the
gear, hung the engine & prop, installed all the wiring, the panel, finished
the cowl/FWF/baffeling. Basically my -10 is complete without the top on.
The top/windows and the pants/faring are all that's left to do shy of
hanging the wings and final assembly..(yeah right) I found it so much easier
to climb in and out without the cabin top on the fuselage. I'm afraid as
soon as the top is on I'll see that bright light at the end of the tunnel
and really start to think I'm done.
>
> Rick Sked
> 40185
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "MauleDriver" <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
> To: "RV10-List Digest Server" <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 2, 2008 6:43:24 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
> Subject: RV10-List: Building Sequence - how long can I delay riveting the
fiberglass top on?
>
>
> I'm looking for some advice on building sequence. I finished sections
> thru 40 and now the fuselage top has been fitted but it seems to be in
> my best interest to delay riveting it until a number of tasks are done.
> It would also seems to be best to delay the upper forward fuselage
> installation until the avionics are well underway. I have the finishing
> kit inhouse and the 540 is on its way. I'm thinking that I need to
> focus on the avionics and other cockpit systems so that I can put the
> tops on.
>
> Those of you that have been thru this, what is a good way to proceed?
> What kind of flexibility do I have? What pitfalls should I avoid?
>
> So much to do and so many options.
>
> Hey Bob C - Congratulations! Can't wait to hear about the first flight.
>
> Bill "with fiberglass dust everywhere" Watson
> Durham NC
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | RV10 Empennage for sale |
320247792628
I have an untouched Vans RV10 empennage kit for sale. I received it about 6
weeks ago, opened the crate and removed packing to inventory all the parts.
Other than removing packing, nothing was touched. All parts, parts bags,
manual, prints, etc are brand new as received from Vans. I would like to
sell it pick up only in Blaine, MN (Minneapolis northern suburb) so I don't
have to re-pack all the foam pieces. I do have the original shipping crate
and the parts were carefully put back to avoid any damage. I paid $3500 for
the kit plus it includes an complete extra set of plans (I think I paid
another $50 for this but I can't be sure). I'm selling it due to having to
purchase my partner out of my other aircraft (Baron). It is listed on eBay
(item #320247792628) with a starting bid of $2000 and a buy it now at
$3,000.
Gary
gjstrongNOSPAMcomcast.net - replace NOSPAM with @
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin Repair - Customer Beware |
If you you shattered shattered the screen on your 430, Garmin will charge you $800
to repair it.
If you need Garmin to replace a light bulb, they will charge you $800 to replace
it.
So how is this an example of "fat and happy?" They simply chose rather than having
a complicated schedule with varying prices to have a simple flat rate. On
the whole, I think the consumer ultimately benefits, it eventually works out
and I can think of much worse company pricing policies. Consider that for $800
they repair whatever you reported, whatever THEY find wrong with the unit,
update the OS software and database before they return it you --this is not a
bad deal IMHO. Anyone familiar with the Narco repair price schedule? In 1999
when I had my 430 installed, the flat rate fee was $600.
Dealers can however perform some replacement tasks for considerable less than the
$800. The $800 flat rate is for MAJOR repairs that cannot be accomplished
by the dealer. Prior to my "W" upgrade, I had a dealer replace the sticking buttons
on my 430 for about $120. A dealer that is not aware of the flat rate
repair schedule or the list of tasks that they can perform is not a very good
Garmin dealer.
In a previous thread there were comments from a few folks on "Garmin arrogance."
I'm curious and I would like to here some examples of Garmin arrogance? Would
this be an example of Garmin arrogance?
I once stood behind someone at a Garmin booth where a gentleman asked the Garmin
rep if they were planning to come out with an IFR portable. The Garmin rep
replied "No" with no further explanation. The guy walked away mumbling something
about them not being responsive to customers. This guy was blaming Garmin
for something under the control of the FAA. Maybe this is also an example of
Garmin arrogance.
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
-------- Original Message --------
> X-Rcpt-To: <wcurtis@nerv10.com>
>
> A good example of Garmin getting fat and happy. I'll pray for mine to
> last a while.
>
> On May 2, 2008, at 6:22 PM, DejaVu wrote:
>
> > Short story: if Garmin replaces a light bulb in your unit, it's
> > $800. I was totally unaware but you can find the verbage in their
> > warranty online. I was expecting someone to call first.
> >
> > Long story: Lost the transmitter on my comm radio on the 430 on the
> > way back from SNF, reception was fine. Trouble shooting showed
> > transmitter output was a whopping 1.5W and very noisy after the
> > initial 3 second ouput of 37W. You can hear something like a relay
> > within the unit kicking in right prior to going from 37W to 1.5W.
> > Great, the radio is protected. Something simple is wrong. My 430
> > has 130hrs on it. 2-year warranty started on purchase date so that
> > expired about 7 months after first flight.
> >
> > Sent the unit to Garmin through a dealer (can't send it directly to
> > them). Turn around time was quick - confirmed my suspecion that it
> > was a simple fix. I was impressed. The damage - $875. My eye
> > balls almost jumped out of their sockets. After researching a bit I
> > realized that I'm not the first unhappy customer. Garmin has a flat
> > repair rate of $800 for the 430, including shipping (thank
> > goodness!! I wonder why my bill was $875?). They guarantee complete
> > overhaul if they so deem the unit needs it. This includes cosmetics
> > like worn out buttons or anything they see that's not up to par.
> > Quote from the Service Report "Confirmed problem. Repaired the COMM
> > board to correct the discrepancy. Updated software." Garmin's
> > repair records does not contain any more details than this. When
> > asked if cosmetic works were done to my unit, the answer.... no. I
> > would've been surprised if there was any on such a low time unit.
> >
> > Sounds to me that Garmin has a good marketing strategy to keep all
> > units in service at tip top overhauled shape at the expense of the
> > customers. By the way, the dealer wasn't aware of this flat rate
> > policy.
> >
> > So what's the chance of something majorly wrong with my 430 would
> > happen to get a good $800 deal? Considering the cost of a new unit,
> > a quick statistical calculation +/- a bunch% error says that you'll
> > never make out ahead with this deal. Google what others have to say
> > regarding Garmin's customer support and see for yourself. I don't
> > mind supporting a good product but this feels like a log going
> > through my rear end.
> >
> > Anh
> > N591VU-flying
> >
> >
> >
Message 11
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| Subject: | For Sale - Navaid AP-1 Autopilot - New! |
Fellow Homebuilders,
I have decided to go with a two-axis auto pilot in my RV-4 project
and am selling my single-axis Navid AP-1. This is a brand new unit
with all of accessories, manual, analog Loran/GPS input, and S-2
servo. It has never been installed. No scratches.
Current price from Navaid is $1300 US. I will sell for $1100 plus
shipping to anywhere in the world. I can accept Visa/MC. First
come, first served.
Please email me off list at dralle@matronics.com if you are
interested. Below is a picture of the actual unit and included accessories.
Matt Dralle
List Admin / RV-4 Builder
Emacs!
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Van's support to international customers |
Ron
Did you try contacting IPS directly?
Their E-mail is intustrialinfo@ipscorp.com
Maybe they can ship one direct to you, or direct to the dealer with your
name on the shipment.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann@baesystems.com>
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 6:25 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Van's support to international customers
> Sorry guys, time for a bit of a whinge. Vans credibility has just taken a
serious nose dive for this builder.
>
> Weldon 10 is not readily available in Australia and Vans will not deliver
it other than sea freight (3 month delay for $12 worth of stuff!!!). The
supplier here insists on providing adhesive that is significantly past its
shelf life (ie more than 2yrs). I have been trying to get some useable
Weldon for the past 3 months without success. Vans did advise that they
hoped to have a solution by end of April. Here is their response to my
query on what was happening:
>
> "Obviously we have no control over IPS or their distributors. We can
become
> certified for shipping Hazmat, but this requires sending staff on an
> expensive 3 day course.
>
> We are making inquiries to see if we can ship the material through a third
> party rather than becoming Hazmat certified here for this one product.
> However it is done, minimum cost for shipping any quantity of the adhesive
> would be about $200.
>
> The reason we don't have an alternative is because experts in the field
> advised us that this is the best adhesive to use. It therefore seems
> inadvisable for us to research, or to recommend that you use, the "not
quite
> so good" alternatives.
>
> Several RV-10s have been finished in Australia, so this is not an
> insurmountable problem, though I am not sure how they solved the issue.
> As I said before, we are able to ship the adhesive in with the kits. If
you have
> all your kits we can conceivably ship this in someone else's kit, so if
you
> know of someone near you ordering a kit let us know. As of right now, that
is
> all we can do.
>
> Gus"
>
> The majority of RV-10s that were completed in Australia have used Weld-on
supplied by Vans BEFORE they discovered it was Hazmat. Their reluctance to
recommend an alternative windows installation method, when they cannot
provide their specified product is very disappointing. My -10 is virtually
finished with a planned first flight date of July. Windscreen installation
and fairing is the only job left and I have no more kits to freight in.
>
> So, for those international builders that may have a problem with getting
Weld-On 10 - expect ZERO support from Vans.
>
> For me, it's back to the archives to find an alternative (but not Vans
approved) way of installing the windscreen.
>
> Ron
> -187 (and reeeeally pi$$ed off)
> "Warning:
> The information contained in this email and any attached files is
> confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
> recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
> attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
> in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
> taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
> however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
> sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
> checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
> your computer."
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Garmin Repair - Customer Beware |
William,
Here is another example of Garmin's pricing power. I have dual Garmin 430's
in my Mooney. Even though the databases are identical, Garmin charges 2x
for the monthly updates, about $60 per month, and there is no way to get
around it if you want the units to crossfill the flight plans. If you have
a 496 for terrain and weather, as I do, you need another subscription to
keep that current. There is no discount for having three Garmin moving map
products in one aircraft.
And it will get worse. Even though Garmin is the gold standard for
aviation, marine, auto and hiking GPS navigation, their stock is down 70%
from recent highs due to, of all things, reduced margins from fierce
competition.
Steve Roberts
Still lurking and waiting on a suitable place to build my RV-10
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Repair - Customer Beware
If you you shattered shattered the screen on your 430, Garmin will charge
you $800 to repair it.
If you need Garmin to replace a light bulb, they will charge you $800 to
replace it.
So how is this an example of "fat and happy?" They simply chose rather than
having a complicated schedule with varying prices to have a simple flat
rate. On the whole, I think the consumer ultimately benefits, it eventually
works out and I can think of much worse company pricing policies. Consider
that for $800 they repair whatever you reported, whatever THEY find wrong
with the unit, update the OS software and database before they return it you
--this is not a bad deal IMHO. Anyone familiar with the Narco repair price
schedule? In 1999 when I had my 430 installed, the flat rate fee was $600.
Dealers can however perform some replacement tasks for considerable less
than the $800. The $800 flat rate is for MAJOR repairs that cannot be
accomplished by the dealer. Prior to my "W" upgrade, I had a dealer replace
the sticking buttons on my 430 for about $120. A dealer that is not aware
of the flat rate repair schedule or the list of tasks that they can perform
is not a very good Garmin dealer.
In a previous thread there were comments from a few folks on "Garmin
arrogance." I'm curious and I would like to here some examples of Garmin
arrogance? Would this be an example of Garmin arrogance?
I once stood behind someone at a Garmin booth where a gentleman asked the
Garmin rep if they were planning to come out with an IFR portable. The
Garmin rep replied "No" with no further explanation. The guy walked away
mumbling something about them not being responsive to customers. This guy
was blaming Garmin for something under the control of the FAA. Maybe this
is also an example of Garmin arrogance.
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
-------- Original Message --------
> X-Rcpt-To: <wcurtis@nerv10.com>
>
> A good example of Garmin getting fat and happy. I'll pray for mine to
> last a while.
>
> On May 2, 2008, at 6:22 PM, DejaVu wrote:
>
> > Short story: if Garmin replaces a light bulb in your unit, it's
> > $800. I was totally unaware but you can find the verbage in their
> > warranty online. I was expecting someone to call first.
> >
> > Long story: Lost the transmitter on my comm radio on the 430 on the
> > way back from SNF, reception was fine. Trouble shooting showed
> > transmitter output was a whopping 1.5W and very noisy after the
> > initial 3 second ouput of 37W. You can hear something like a relay
> > within the unit kicking in right prior to going from 37W to 1.5W.
> > Great, the radio is protected. Something simple is wrong. My 430
> > has 130hrs on it. 2-year warranty started on purchase date so that
> > expired about 7 months after first flight.
> >
> > Sent the unit to Garmin through a dealer (can't send it directly to
> > them). Turn around time was quick - confirmed my suspecion that it
> > was a simple fix. I was impressed. The damage - $875. My eye
> > balls almost jumped out of their sockets. After researching a bit I
> > realized that I'm not the first unhappy customer. Garmin has a flat
> > repair rate of $800 for the 430, including shipping (thank
> > goodness!! I wonder why my bill was $875?). They guarantee complete
> > overhaul if they so deem the unit needs it. This includes cosmetics
> > like worn out buttons or anything they see that's not up to par.
> > Quote from the Service Report "Confirmed problem. Repaired the COMM
> > board to correct the discrepancy. Updated software." Garmin's
> > repair records does not contain any more details than this. When
> > asked if cosmetic works were done to my unit, the answer.... no. I
> > would've been surprised if there was any on such a low time unit.
> >
> > Sounds to me that Garmin has a good marketing strategy to keep all
> > units in service at tip top overhauled shape at the expense of the
> > customers. By the way, the dealer wasn't aware of this flat rate
> > policy.
> >
> > So what's the chance of something majorly wrong with my 430 would
> > happen to get a good $800 deal? Considering the cost of a new unit,
> > a quick statistical calculation +/- a bunch% error says that you'll
> > never make out ahead with this deal. Google what others have to say
> > regarding Garmin's customer support and see for yourself. I don't
> > mind supporting a good product but this feels like a log going
> > through my rear end.
> >
> > Anh
> > N591VU-flying
> >
> >
> >
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | Re: Overhead Console? |
Dave's is just a mini console for lights. It doesn't traverse the length of the
cockpit. It wouldn't be a good choice for those of us wanting to route air
through a naca port.
>
> From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman@earthlink.net>
> Date: 2008/05/03 Sat AM 07:18:26 EST
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Overhead Console?
>
>
> I'm not that far along yet, but I know Dave Saylor at Aircrafters LLC in Watsonville,
CA, has advertised an overhead console in Kitplanes.
>
> John
>
> --------
> #40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished
> N711JG reserved
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180867#180867
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Garmin Repair - Customer Beware |
Steve,
Sounds like you are having issue with the wrong company. You do realize that it
is Jeppesen that is charging you $60 per month for that database updates and
not Garmin right? Garmin WILL sell you the database updates but they are just
reselling the Jeppesen data which you can get yourself directly from Jeppesen.
Also, Jeppessen will NOT charge you TWICE as much for a dual subscription.
My dual annual WAAS subscription for the 430 is only $105 more than the single
unit subscription. I think you should take a look at the Jeppesen subscription
plan offerings.
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
-------- Original Message --------
> X-Rcpt-To: <wcurtis@nerv10.com>
>
>
> William,
>
> Here is another example of Garmin's pricing power. I have dual Garmin 430's
> in my Mooney. Even though the databases are identical, Garmin charges 2x
> for the monthly updates, about $60 per month, and there is no way to get
> around it if you want the units to crossfill the flight plans. If you have
> a 496 for terrain and weather, as I do, you need another subscription to
> keep that current. There is no discount for having three Garmin moving map
> products in one aircraft.
>
> And it will get worse. Even though Garmin is the gold standard for
> aviation, marine, auto and hiking GPS navigation, their stock is down 70%
> from recent highs due to, of all things, reduced margins from fierce
> competition.
>
> Steve Roberts
> Still lurking and waiting on a suitable place to build my RV-10
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis
> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 2:22 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Repair - Customer Beware
>
>
> If you you shattered shattered the screen on your 430, Garmin will charge
> you $800 to repair it.
> If you need Garmin to replace a light bulb, they will charge you $800 to
> replace it.
>
> So how is this an example of "fat and happy?" They simply chose rather than
> having a complicated schedule with varying prices to have a simple flat
> rate. On the whole, I think the consumer ultimately benefits, it eventually
> works out and I can think of much worse company pricing policies. Consider
> that for $800 they repair whatever you reported, whatever THEY find wrong
> with the unit, update the OS software and database before they return it you
> --this is not a bad deal IMHO. Anyone familiar with the Narco repair price
> schedule? In 1999 when I had my 430 installed, the flat rate fee was $600.
>
> Dealers can however perform some replacement tasks for considerable less
> than the $800. The $800 flat rate is for MAJOR repairs that cannot be
> accomplished by the dealer. Prior to my "W" upgrade, I had a dealer replace
> the sticking buttons on my 430 for about $120. A dealer that is not aware
> of the flat rate repair schedule or the list of tasks that they can perform
> is not a very good Garmin dealer.
>
> In a previous thread there were comments from a few folks on "Garmin
> arrogance." I'm curious and I would like to here some examples of Garmin
> arrogance? Would this be an example of Garmin arrogance?
>
> I once stood behind someone at a Garmin booth where a gentleman asked the
> Garmin rep if they were planning to come out with an IFR portable. The
> Garmin rep replied "No" with no further explanation. The guy walked away
> mumbling something about them not being responsive to customers. This guy
> was blaming Garmin for something under the control of the FAA. Maybe this
> is also an example of Garmin arrogance.
>
> William
> http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> > X-Rcpt-To: <wcurtis@nerv10.com>
> >
> > A good example of Garmin getting fat and happy. I'll pray for mine to
> > last a while.
> >
> > On May 2, 2008, at 6:22 PM, DejaVu wrote:
> >
> > > Short story: if Garmin replaces a light bulb in your unit, it's
> > > $800. I was totally unaware but you can find the verbage in their
> > > warranty online. I was expecting someone to call first.
> > >
> > > Long story: Lost the transmitter on my comm radio on the 430 on the
> > > way back from SNF, reception was fine. Trouble shooting showed
> > > transmitter output was a whopping 1.5W and very noisy after the
> > > initial 3 second ouput of 37W. You can hear something like a relay
> > > within the unit kicking in right prior to going from 37W to 1.5W.
> > > Great, the radio is protected. Something simple is wrong. My 430
> > > has 130hrs on it. 2-year warranty started on purchase date so that
> > > expired about 7 months after first flight.
> > >
> > > Sent the unit to Garmin through a dealer (can't send it directly to
> > > them). Turn around time was quick - confirmed my suspecion that it
> > > was a simple fix. I was impressed. The damage - $875. My eye
> > > balls almost jumped out of their sockets. After researching a bit I
> > > realized that I'm not the first unhappy customer. Garmin has a flat
> > > repair rate of $800 for the 430, including shipping (thank
> > > goodness!! I wonder why my bill was $875?). They guarantee complete
> > > overhaul if they so deem the unit needs it. This includes cosmetics
> > > like worn out buttons or anything they see that's not up to par.
> > > Quote from the Service Report "Confirmed problem. Repaired the COMM
> > > board to correct the discrepancy. Updated software." Garmin's
> > > repair records does not contain any more details than this. When
> > > asked if cosmetic works were done to my unit, the answer.... no. I
> > > would've been surprised if there was any on such a low time unit.
> > >
> > > Sounds to me that Garmin has a good marketing strategy to keep all
> > > units in service at tip top overhauled shape at the expense of the
> > > customers. By the way, the dealer wasn't aware of this flat rate
> > > policy.
> > >
> > > So what's the chance of something majorly wrong with my 430 would
> > > happen to get a good $800 deal? Considering the cost of a new unit,
> > > a quick statistical calculation +/- a bunch% error says that you'll
> > > never make out ahead with this deal. Google what others have to say
> > > regarding Garmin's customer support and see for yourself. I don't
> > > mind supporting a good product but this feels like a log going
> > > through my rear end.
> > >
> > > Anh
> > > N591VU-flying
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Van's support to international customers |
John,
Yes, I have had a few emails with IPS and they have been quite responsive.
At the moment, there does not seem to be ANY 'in life' Weld On in Australi
a and IPS is supplying to the primary distributor (Mulford). But supply is
still likely to be several weeks/months away.
To all who responded with offers and recommendations both on and off list -
thank you! The camaraderie and support from the list is amazing. I have
been aware of previous discussion about using alternate techniques (SilPruf
, Epoxy/flox, 3M 2216), and will now go down one of those paths.
thanks again guys
cheers,
Ron (not quite so ticked off any more)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of John Hilger
Sent: Sun 5/4/2008 4:57 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Van's support to international customers
Ron
Did you try contacting IPS directly?
Their E-mail is intustrialinfo@ipscorp.com
Maybe they can ship one direct to you, or direct to the dealer with your
name on the shipment.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann@baesystems.com>
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 6:25 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Van's support to international customers
> Sorry guys, time for a bit of a whinge. Vans credibility has just taken a
serious nose dive for this builder.
>
> Weldon 10 is not readily available in Australia and Vans will not deliver
it other than sea freight (3 month delay for $12 worth of stuff!!!). The
supplier here insists on providing adhesive that is significantly past its
shelf life (ie more than 2yrs). I have been trying to get some useable
Weldon for the past 3 months without success. Vans did advise that they
hoped to have a solution by end of April. Here is their response to my
query on what was happening:
>
> "Obviously we have no control over IPS or their distributors. We can
become
> certified for shipping Hazmat, but this requires sending staff on an
> expensive 3 day course.
>
> We are making inquiries to see if we can ship the material through a third
> party rather than becoming Hazmat certified here for this one product.
> However it is done, minimum cost for shipping any quantity of the adhesive
> would be about $200.
>
> The reason we don't have an alternative is because experts in the field
> advised us that this is the best adhesive to use. It therefore seems
> inadvisable for us to research, or to recommend that you use, the "not
quite
> so good" alternatives.
>
> Several RV-10s have been finished in Australia, so this is not an
> insurmountable problem, though I am not sure how they solved the issue.
> As I said before, we are able to ship the adhesive in with the kits. If
you have
> all your kits we can conceivably ship this in someone else's kit, so if
you
> know of someone near you ordering a kit let us know. As of right now, that
is
> all we can do.
>
> Gus"
>
> The majority of RV-10s that were completed in Australia have used Weld-on
supplied by Vans BEFORE they discovered it was Hazmat. Their reluctance to
recommend an alternative windows installation method, when they cannot
provide their specified product is very disappointing. My -10 is virtually
finished with a planned first flight date of July. Windscreen installation
and fairing is the only job left and I have no more kits to freight in.
>
> So, for those international builders that may have a problem with getting
Weld-On 10 - expect ZERO support from Vans.
>
> For me, it's back to the archives to find an alternative (but not Vans
approved) way of installing the windscreen.
>
> Ron
> -187 (and reeeeally pi$$ed off)
> "Warning:
> The information contained in this email and any attached files is
> confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
> recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
> attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
> in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
> taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
> however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
> sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
> checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
> your computer."
>
>
"Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached files is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
your computer."
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Garmin Repair - Customer Beware |
William,
I knew the database was from Jeppessen, but not that I could buy the
subscriptions directly. I will switch at renewal. Many thanks.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 7:19 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Garmin Repair - Customer Beware
Steve,
Sounds like you are having issue with the wrong company. You do realize
that it is Jeppesen that is charging you $60 per month for that database
updates and not Garmin right? Garmin WILL sell you the database updates but
they are just reselling the Jeppesen data which you can get yourself
directly from Jeppesen. Also, Jeppessen will NOT charge you TWICE as much
for a dual subscription. My dual annual WAAS subscription for the 430 is
only $105 more than the single unit subscription. I think you should take a
look at the Jeppesen subscription plan offerings.
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
-------- Original Message --------
> X-Rcpt-To: <wcurtis@nerv10.com>
>
>
> William,
>
> Here is another example of Garmin's pricing power. I have dual Garmin
430's
> in my Mooney. Even though the databases are identical, Garmin charges 2x
> for the monthly updates, about $60 per month, and there is no way to get
> around it if you want the units to crossfill the flight plans. If you
have
> a 496 for terrain and weather, as I do, you need another subscription to
> keep that current. There is no discount for having three Garmin moving
map
> products in one aircraft.
>
> And it will get worse. Even though Garmin is the gold standard for
> aviation, marine, auto and hiking GPS navigation, their stock is down 70%
> from recent highs due to, of all things, reduced margins from fierce
> competition.
>
> Steve Roberts
> Still lurking and waiting on a suitable place to build my RV-10
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis
> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 2:22 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Repair - Customer Beware
>
>
> If you you shattered shattered the screen on your 430, Garmin will charge
> you $800 to repair it.
> If you need Garmin to replace a light bulb, they will charge you $800 to
> replace it.
>
> So how is this an example of "fat and happy?" They simply chose rather
than
> having a complicated schedule with varying prices to have a simple flat
> rate. On the whole, I think the consumer ultimately benefits, it
eventually
> works out and I can think of much worse company pricing policies.
Consider
> that for $800 they repair whatever you reported, whatever THEY find wrong
> with the unit, update the OS software and database before they return it
you
> --this is not a bad deal IMHO. Anyone familiar with the Narco repair
price
> schedule? In 1999 when I had my 430 installed, the flat rate fee was
$600.
>
> Dealers can however perform some replacement tasks for considerable less
> than the $800. The $800 flat rate is for MAJOR repairs that cannot be
> accomplished by the dealer. Prior to my "W" upgrade, I had a dealer
replace
> the sticking buttons on my 430 for about $120. A dealer that is not aware
> of the flat rate repair schedule or the list of tasks that they can
perform
> is not a very good Garmin dealer.
>
> In a previous thread there were comments from a few folks on "Garmin
> arrogance." I'm curious and I would like to here some examples of Garmin
> arrogance? Would this be an example of Garmin arrogance?
>
> I once stood behind someone at a Garmin booth where a gentleman asked the
> Garmin rep if they were planning to come out with an IFR portable. The
> Garmin rep replied "No" with no further explanation. The guy walked away
> mumbling something about them not being responsive to customers. This guy
> was blaming Garmin for something under the control of the FAA. Maybe this
> is also an example of Garmin arrogance.
>
> William
> http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> > X-Rcpt-To: <wcurtis@nerv10.com>
> >
> > A good example of Garmin getting fat and happy. I'll pray for mine to
> > last a while.
> >
> > On May 2, 2008, at 6:22 PM, DejaVu wrote:
> >
> > > Short story: if Garmin replaces a light bulb in your unit, it's
> > > $800. I was totally unaware but you can find the verbage in their
> > > warranty online. I was expecting someone to call first.
> > >
> > > Long story: Lost the transmitter on my comm radio on the 430 on the
> > > way back from SNF, reception was fine. Trouble shooting showed
> > > transmitter output was a whopping 1.5W and very noisy after the
> > > initial 3 second ouput of 37W. You can hear something like a relay
> > > within the unit kicking in right prior to going from 37W to 1.5W.
> > > Great, the radio is protected. Something simple is wrong. My 430
> > > has 130hrs on it. 2-year warranty started on purchase date so that
> > > expired about 7 months after first flight.
> > >
> > > Sent the unit to Garmin through a dealer (can't send it directly to
> > > them). Turn around time was quick - confirmed my suspecion that it
> > > was a simple fix. I was impressed. The damage - $875. My eye
> > > balls almost jumped out of their sockets. After researching a bit I
> > > realized that I'm not the first unhappy customer. Garmin has a flat
> > > repair rate of $800 for the 430, including shipping (thank
> > > goodness!! I wonder why my bill was $875?). They guarantee complete
> > > overhaul if they so deem the unit needs it. This includes cosmetics
> > > like worn out buttons or anything they see that's not up to par.
> > > Quote from the Service Report "Confirmed problem. Repaired the COMM
> > > board to correct the discrepancy. Updated software." Garmin's
> > > repair records does not contain any more details than this. When
> > > asked if cosmetic works were done to my unit, the answer.... no. I
> > > would've been surprised if there was any on such a low time unit.
> > >
> > > Sounds to me that Garmin has a good marketing strategy to keep all
> > > units in service at tip top overhauled shape at the expense of the
> > > customers. By the way, the dealer wasn't aware of this flat rate
> > > policy.
> > >
> > > So what's the chance of something majorly wrong with my 430 would
> > > happen to get a good $800 deal? Considering the cost of a new unit,
> > > a quick statistical calculation +/- a bunch% error says that you'll
> > > never make out ahead with this deal. Google what others have to say
> > > regarding Garmin's customer support and see for yourself. I don't
> > > mind supporting a good product but this feels like a log going
> > > through my rear end.
> > >
> > > Anh
> > > N591VU-flying
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: Garmin Repair - poor Customer support?? |
Although I think $800 for a minor job is poor support (they should have done
it for S&H and gained a happy customer in return) I disagree with the
argument of license per unit cost. It would be like telling a software
manufacturer that I have three computers how come I need to pay to get the
latest version three times.. In this case that is business. With that said I
was upset when I decided to upgrade to a new computer because my Flight Sim
was too slow and the new computer would resolve the performance that the
game required. The software was "license per unit" so I needed to buy a new
"identical" software package for the new computer.. I called the company and
guess what?? they gave me a new license for the new computer.. for free..
understanding my situation..I BTW deletedthe software off the old computer
so technically all I did was move the software not run it concurrently.
Garmin needs to know the difference between a light bulb and a screen, $800
is poor customer service..
Now if AFS could find another option than the 430W I would be a happy
camper, but as I mentioned in the past.. where the competition for this
unit??
Sure Magellan and Tom Tom can be competition for the land based GPS.. but
there's nothing for the aviation units..
Pascal
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Steven Roberts" <swrpilot@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 2:28 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Garmin Repair - Customer Beware
>
> William,
>
> Here is another example of Garmin's pricing power. I have dual Garmin
> 430's
> in my Mooney. Even though the databases are identical, Garmin charges 2x
> for the monthly updates, about $60 per month, and there is no way to get
> around it if you want the units to crossfill the flight plans. If you
> have
> a 496 for terrain and weather, as I do, you need another subscription to
> keep that current. There is no discount for having three Garmin moving
> map
> products in one aircraft.
>
> And it will get worse. Even though Garmin is the gold standard for
> aviation, marine, auto and hiking GPS navigation, their stock is down 70%
> from recent highs due to, of all things, reduced margins from fierce
> competition.
>
> Steve Roberts
> Still lurking and waiting on a suitable place to build my RV-10
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis
> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 2:22 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Repair - Customer Beware
>
>
> If you you shattered shattered the screen on your 430, Garmin will charge
> you $800 to repair it.
> If you need Garmin to replace a light bulb, they will charge you $800 to
> replace it.
>
> So how is this an example of "fat and happy?" They simply chose rather
> than
> having a complicated schedule with varying prices to have a simple flat
> rate. On the whole, I think the consumer ultimately benefits, it
> eventually
> works out and I can think of much worse company pricing policies.
> Consider
> that for $800 they repair whatever you reported, whatever THEY find wrong
> with the unit, update the OS software and database before they return it
> you
> --this is not a bad deal IMHO. Anyone familiar with the Narco repair
> price
> schedule? In 1999 when I had my 430 installed, the flat rate fee was
> $600.
>
> Dealers can however perform some replacement tasks for considerable less
> than the $800. The $800 flat rate is for MAJOR repairs that cannot be
> accomplished by the dealer. Prior to my "W" upgrade, I had a dealer
> replace
> the sticking buttons on my 430 for about $120. A dealer that is not aware
> of the flat rate repair schedule or the list of tasks that they can
> perform
> is not a very good Garmin dealer.
>
> In a previous thread there were comments from a few folks on "Garmin
> arrogance." I'm curious and I would like to here some examples of Garmin
> arrogance? Would this be an example of Garmin arrogance?
>
> I once stood behind someone at a Garmin booth where a gentleman asked the
> Garmin rep if they were planning to come out with an IFR portable. The
> Garmin rep replied "No" with no further explanation. The guy walked away
> mumbling something about them not being responsive to customers. This guy
> was blaming Garmin for something under the control of the FAA. Maybe this
> is also an example of Garmin arrogance.
>
> William
> http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
>
> -------- Original Message --------
>> X-Rcpt-To: <wcurtis@nerv10.com>
>>
>> A good example of Garmin getting fat and happy. I'll pray for mine to
>> last a while.
>>
>> On May 2, 2008, at 6:22 PM, DejaVu wrote:
>>
>> > Short story: if Garmin replaces a light bulb in your unit, it's
>> > $800. I was totally unaware but you can find the verbage in their
>> > warranty online. I was expecting someone to call first.
>> >
>> > Long story: Lost the transmitter on my comm radio on the 430 on the
>> > way back from SNF, reception was fine. Trouble shooting showed
>> > transmitter output was a whopping 1.5W and very noisy after the
>> > initial 3 second ouput of 37W. You can hear something like a relay
>> > within the unit kicking in right prior to going from 37W to 1.5W.
>> > Great, the radio is protected. Something simple is wrong. My 430
>> > has 130hrs on it. 2-year warranty started on purchase date so that
>> > expired about 7 months after first flight.
>> >
>> > Sent the unit to Garmin through a dealer (can't send it directly to
>> > them). Turn around time was quick - confirmed my suspecion that it
>> > was a simple fix. I was impressed. The damage - $875. My eye
>> > balls almost jumped out of their sockets. After researching a bit I
>> > realized that I'm not the first unhappy customer. Garmin has a flat
>> > repair rate of $800 for the 430, including shipping (thank
>> > goodness!! I wonder why my bill was $875?). They guarantee complete
>> > overhaul if they so deem the unit needs it. This includes cosmetics
>> > like worn out buttons or anything they see that's not up to par.
>> > Quote from the Service Report "Confirmed problem. Repaired the COMM
>> > board to correct the discrepancy. Updated software." Garmin's
>> > repair records does not contain any more details than this. When
>> > asked if cosmetic works were done to my unit, the answer.... no. I
>> > would've been surprised if there was any on such a low time unit.
>> >
>> > Sounds to me that Garmin has a good marketing strategy to keep all
>> > units in service at tip top overhauled shape at the expense of the
>> > customers. By the way, the dealer wasn't aware of this flat rate
>> > policy.
>> >
>> > So what's the chance of something majorly wrong with my 430 would
>> > happen to get a good $800 deal? Considering the cost of a new unit,
>> > a quick statistical calculation +/- a bunch% error says that you'll
>> > never make out ahead with this deal. Google what others have to say
>> > regarding Garmin's customer support and see for yourself. I don't
>> > mind supporting a good product but this feels like a log going
>> > through my rear end.
>> >
>> > Anh
>> > N591VU-flying
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Garmin Repair - Customer Beware |
The single unit East/Central WAAS subscription (DGRW99) is $290 per year.
The dual unit East/Central WAAS subscription(DGRW89) is $395 per year.
The single unit full USA WAAS subscription(DGW300) is $350 per year.
The dual unit full USA WAAS subscription(DGW800) is $450 per year.
All these prices are for the 400/500 series with the Skybound Internet updates.
I have the DGRW89 subscription since I travel mostly in the eastern states.
If I do decide to travel in the western US, I can upgrade to the DGW800 and then
return to the DGRW89. They will credit me for the remaining months on my
old subscription and charge me for the full DGW800 when I upgrade, but then when
I downgrade, they will again credit me for the months remaining on the DGW800
and charge the DGRW89 anew. They make it easy to change subscription plans
at any time. Still high for warmed over government data, but way less than $60
per month.
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
-------- Original Message --------
> X-Rcpt-To: <wcurtis@nerv10.com>
>
>
> William,
>
> I knew the database was from Jeppessen, but not that I could buy the
> subscriptions directly. I will switch at renewal. Many thanks.
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis
> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 7:19 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Garmin Repair - Customer Beware
>
>
> Steve,
>
> Sounds like you are having issue with the wrong company. You do realize
> that it is Jeppesen that is charging you $60 per month for that database
> updates and not Garmin right? Garmin WILL sell you the database updates but
> they are just reselling the Jeppesen data which you can get yourself
> directly from Jeppesen. Also, Jeppessen will NOT charge you TWICE as much
> for a dual subscription. My dual annual WAAS subscription for the 430 is
> only $105 more than the single unit subscription. I think you should take a
> look at the Jeppesen subscription plan offerings.
>
> William
> http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> > X-Rcpt-To: <wcurtis@nerv10.com>
> >
> >
> > William,
> >
> > Here is another example of Garmin's pricing power. I have dual Garmin
> 430's
> > in my Mooney. Even though the databases are identical, Garmin charges 2x
> > for the monthly updates, about $60 per month, and there is no way to get
> > around it if you want the units to crossfill the flight plans. If you
> have
> > a 496 for terrain and weather, as I do, you need another subscription to
> > keep that current. There is no discount for having three Garmin moving
> map
> > products in one aircraft.
> >
> > And it will get worse. Even though Garmin is the gold standard for
> > aviation, marine, auto and hiking GPS navigation, their stock is down 70%
> > from recent highs due to, of all things, reduced margins from fierce
> > competition.
> >
> > Steve Roberts
> > Still lurking and waiting on a suitable place to build my RV-10
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis
> > Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 2:22 PM
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Repair - Customer Beware
> >
> >
> > If you you shattered shattered the screen on your 430, Garmin will charge
> > you $800 to repair it.
> > If you need Garmin to replace a light bulb, they will charge you $800 to
> > replace it.
> >
> > So how is this an example of "fat and happy?" They simply chose rather
> than
> > having a complicated schedule with varying prices to have a simple flat
> > rate. On the whole, I think the consumer ultimately benefits, it
> eventually
> > works out and I can think of much worse company pricing policies.
> Consider
> > that for $800 they repair whatever you reported, whatever THEY find wrong
> > with the unit, update the OS software and database before they return it
> you
> > --this is not a bad deal IMHO. Anyone familiar with the Narco repair
> price
> > schedule? In 1999 when I had my 430 installed, the flat rate fee was
> $600.
> >
> > Dealers can however perform some replacement tasks for considerable less
> > than the $800. The $800 flat rate is for MAJOR repairs that cannot be
> > accomplished by the dealer. Prior to my "W" upgrade, I had a dealer
> replace
> > the sticking buttons on my 430 for about $120. A dealer that is not aware
> > of the flat rate repair schedule or the list of tasks that they can
> perform
> > is not a very good Garmin dealer.
> >
> > In a previous thread there were comments from a few folks on "Garmin
> > arrogance." I'm curious and I would like to here some examples of Garmin
> > arrogance? Would this be an example of Garmin arrogance?
> >
> > I once stood behind someone at a Garmin booth where a gentleman asked the
> > Garmin rep if they were planning to come out with an IFR portable. The
> > Garmin rep replied "No" with no further explanation. The guy walked away
> > mumbling something about them not being responsive to customers. This guy
> > was blaming Garmin for something under the control of the FAA. Maybe this
> > is also an example of Garmin arrogance.
> >
> > William
> > http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > > X-Rcpt-To: <wcurtis@nerv10.com>
> > >
> > > A good example of Garmin getting fat and happy. I'll pray for mine to
> > > last a while.
> > >
> > > On May 2, 2008, at 6:22 PM, DejaVu wrote:
> > >
> > > > Short story: if Garmin replaces a light bulb in your unit, it's
> > > > $800. I was totally unaware but you can find the verbage in their
> > > > warranty online. I was expecting someone to call first.
> > > >
> > > > Long story: Lost the transmitter on my comm radio on the 430 on the
> > > > way back from SNF, reception was fine. Trouble shooting showed
> > > > transmitter output was a whopping 1.5W and very noisy after the
> > > > initial 3 second ouput of 37W. You can hear something like a relay
> > > > within the unit kicking in right prior to going from 37W to 1.5W.
> > > > Great, the radio is protected. Something simple is wrong. My 430
> > > > has 130hrs on it. 2-year warranty started on purchase date so that
> > > > expired about 7 months after first flight.
> > > >
> > > > Sent the unit to Garmin through a dealer (can't send it directly to
> > > > them). Turn around time was quick - confirmed my suspecion that it
> > > > was a simple fix. I was impressed. The damage - $875. My eye
> > > > balls almost jumped out of their sockets. After researching a bit I
> > > > realized that I'm not the first unhappy customer. Garmin has a flat
> > > > repair rate of $800 for the 430, including shipping (thank
> > > > goodness!! I wonder why my bill was $875?). They guarantee complete
> > > > overhaul if they so deem the unit needs it. This includes cosmetics
> > > > like worn out buttons or anything they see that's not up to par.
> > > > Quote from the Service Report "Confirmed problem. Repaired the COMM
> > > > board to correct the discrepancy. Updated software." Garmin's
> > > > repair records does not contain any more details than this. When
> > > > asked if cosmetic works were done to my unit, the answer.... no. I
> > > > would've been surprised if there was any on such a low time unit.
> > > >
> > > > Sounds to me that Garmin has a good marketing strategy to keep all
> > > > units in service at tip top overhauled shape at the expense of the
> > > > customers. By the way, the dealer wasn't aware of this flat rate
> > > > policy.
> > > >
> > > > So what's the chance of something majorly wrong with my 430 would
> > > > happen to get a good $800 deal? Considering the cost of a new unit,
> > > > a quick statistical calculation +/- a bunch% error says that you'll
> > > > never make out ahead with this deal. Google what others have to say
> > > > regarding Garmin's customer support and see for yourself. I don't
> > > > mind supporting a good product but this feels like a log going
> > > > through my rear end.
> > > >
> > > > Anh
> > > > N591VU-flying
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Engine Reading in Cruise |
I was talking to David McNeill on the phone about elevated CHT temps on
cylinders 1 and 2 yesterday and mentioned that I had that problem also and
was considering reducing the size of the air dams on those cylinders to
improve temps. I told him I would post some instrument readings I had
recorded about 2 weeks ago. Engine is IO-540 with 10:1 comp, 1 Lightspeed,
Bendix servo, AeroComposites 3 blade prop.
Altitude: 2000 ft. OAT: 75F MP: 21" RPM: 2100 IAS: 128kt TAS: 140kt
Leaned to 10.1 gph. Oil Temp: 203F
GHT 374 385 340 337 369 360
EGT 1398 1386 1382 1352 1390 1403
Albert Gardner
N991RV
Yuma, AZ
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Reading in Cruise |
Those look like some pretty good numbers to me.
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Albert Gardner" <ibspud@roadrunner.com> wrote:
I was talking to David McNeill on the phone about elevated CHT temps on
cylinders 1 and 2 yesterday and mentioned that I had that problem also a
nd was considering reducing the size of the air dams on those cylinders
to improve temps. I told him I would post some instrument readings I ha
d recorded about 2 weeks ago. Engine is IO-540 with 10:1 comp, 1 Lightsp
eed, Bendix servo, AeroComposites 3 blade prop.
Altitude: 2000 ft. OAT: 75F MP: 21=94 RPM: 2100 IAS: 128kt TAS: 140k
t Leaned to 10.1 gph. Oil Temp: 203F
GHT 374 385 340 337 369 360
EGT 1398 1386 1382 1352 1390 1403
Albert Gardner
N991RV
Yuma, AZ
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