Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:42 AM - Re: Rudder Trim - Spring Bias (Rodger Todd)
2. 04:29 AM - Re: Wing Tips (johngoodman)
3. 05:39 AM - Re: Re: Wing Tips (William Curtis)
4. 06:48 AM - Re: Wing Tips (Lew Gallagher)
5. 09:23 AM - Re: Alternator noise (darnpilot@aol.com)
6. 09:55 AM - Re: Alternator noise (Jay Wik)
7. 09:58 AM - For Sale - RMI uMonitor - NEW - All Probes and Upgrades! (Matt Dralle)
8. 11:00 AM - For Sale - Skyforce Skymap IIIC - NEW - Latest Database (Matt Dralle)
9. 12:42 PM - Re: Recent Maintenance - Tires and Brake Lines (pascal)
10. 02:16 PM - Re: Missing index holes in doors (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
11. 02:59 PM - For Sale - RMI uEncoder - NEW - Assembled (Matt Dralle)
12. 03:40 PM - Re: Missing index holes in doors (John Cox)
13. 04:03 PM - Re: Missing index holes in doors (David McNeill)
14. 06:41 PM - Re: Missing index holes in doors (John Cox)
15. 11:25 PM - W&B (Chris and Susie McGough)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Trim - Spring Bias |
Hi Jason,
I was wondering how you are going with the development of the rudder trim?
Best wishes,
Rodger
--- On Fri, 22/2/08, jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com <jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com>
wrote:
> From: jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com <jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: Rudder Trim - Spring Bias
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Friday, 22 February, 2008, 6:55 PM
> I have 'developed' a spring bias rudder trim system
> for the RV-10. After
> sharing this idea with Deems he encouraged me to do the
> same with the rest
> of the group. So here goes, but before I get into any
> details let me
> preface this whole conversation with a few thoughts. This
> is all in
> theory, I have absolutely no actual flight testing to back
> up any of the
> 'claims', or assumptions. Just good old common
> sense and a tiny bit of
> engineering. Our airplane is not in the air yet, I had
> hoped to get in
> the air, prove out the system, then share with the world.
> To prevent
> anyone else for possibly needlessly cutting into their
> rudder to add a
> trim tab, I have decided to bear the scrutiny of an
> unproven, theoretical
> system. Please be gentle...
>
> I will attempt to verbalize the system. I used two torsion
> springs, one
> mounted / wrapped around, each rudder bar (the bar that
> connects the
> rudder pedals). One of the springs is fixed on both ends
> providing a
> torsional force on the rudder bar. The other springs free
> end is hooked
> to a servo motor that allows approximately 30 degrees
> deflection. The
> theory is that the two springs will seek equilibrium (OK,
> that's not much
> theory, that's more fact), here is where the testing
> needs to happen. If
> I deflect the one springs free arm 30 degrees, will it
> create enough force
> to put the airplane in trim. The springs apply about an 8
> pound force to
> the rudder cables (pre-load if you will), assuming they
> will want to
> maintain in equilibrium a 30 degree deflection should be
> more than enough
> to trim the airplane. The servo will act as sort of a fine
> tuning
> mechanism, the course adjustment will be accomplished by
> winding more or
> less tension in one spring or the other during flight
> testing.
>
> I like a few things about this method.
> 1) It can be installed to any flying airplane with no
> modifications
> required other than wiring.
> 2) There is a chance that this system could be made manual
> and eliminate
> the RAC servo if desired.
> 3) This system provides tension to both rudder cables, no
> more 'flopping
> rudder'.
> 4) Keeps the rudder 'clean'.
> 5) Doesn't add much extra rudder input force.
>
> I sent pictures of this system to Deems, I will
> 'attempt' to post some
> pictures to this forum if there is interest. Comments
> welcome, I
> apologize for the extremely long post, but I have added
> Deems questions
> below, I figured if he asked, many more will have the same
> questions....
>
>
> 1. How did you determine which spring type/size/strength to
> use?
> OK, you busted me!! I didn't do the math, I feel
> extremely guilty about
> this, as an engineer, I should probably go back and figure
> the forces
> here. Here is what I did; since I grew up in the business
> of garage doors
> (my Dad owned his own company doing this), I went to Fleet
> Farm (one of
> our local supply houses, similar to most lumbar yards) and
> found a garage
> door spring that had an ID that would slide over the rudder
> bar with room
> to spare, and would fit between the two rudder bars (I will
> measure this
> for you). I then cut lengths of the spring until I got
> what I 'thought'
> was a reasonable amount of force with two turns of
> pre-load, and bent some
> custom ends on them. With torsion springs you have two
> options to
> increase the reaction force. You can add turns of
> pre-load, or you can
> shorten the spring with the same number of turns. I just
> went until I
> reached what I 'felt' was a happy medium. Remember
> that as you wind a
> torsion spring more and more the inside diameter decreases,
> until it
> eventually binds on the shaft (rudder bar). What mostly
> drove me not to
> do the math, was I had absolutely no idea what sort of
> corrective rudder
> pressure was required to put the ball in the middle. My
> plan all along
> has been to get it in the air and do some experimenting, I
> installed the
> system so that modification of the spring force should be
> simple. I just
> need to start dating a contortionist :)
>
> 2. I assume that you can 'adjust the torsional load
> somewhat by moving
> the collar/s, Is that true?
> Correct, I started out with each spring wound an equal
> amount. If I find
> that I need additional trim to one side or the other I will
> wind one of
> the springs to compensate. The servo will just provide the
> 'fine tuning'.
>
> 3. One of the pictures shows the center support brace minus
> the delrin
> bushings, I'm assuming that leaving those out is not a
> requirement of
> your approach and was just the result of taking the picture
> before they
> were installed?
> Correct, in fact there isn't a single modification to
> the airframe, if I
> remove the system no one could ever tell it was installed.
> I built the
> mount so that it could be used in either the forward or aft
> rudder
> mounting positions, my pedals are mounted in the aft
> position. But I
> drilled and prepped the airframe to mount the rudder pedals
> in either
> position.
>
> 4. What about the mount for the RAC servo, do you have a
> picture of it
> before the servo is mounted.
> See attached.... The angle was determined by something, I
> just don't
> recall what anymore. I know it has to be at an angle to
> work though. I
> can measure if you decide to attempt this.
>
> 5. Also it' looks like you used a small section of SS
> cable to connect
> the servo arm to the spring coil, correct? Picture?
> Correct, see attached. One end is run through the servo
> arm, the other
> gets hooked by the spring. The spring on the pilot side is
> hooked over
> the opposite rudder bar.
>
> I gave some thought to your desire to have a manually
> operated system, I
> think this system could be done manually with very little
> pain. You may
> be able to add a knob that would come out of the sub panel,
> really
> anywhere along its length. What would have to happen is a
> bracket would
> need to be made that slid over the rudder bar with a nut in
> it. Then a
> threaded shaft running from the rudder bar to the sub panel
> would be used
> to adjust the free arm of the spring. It may be best if
> the spring were
> pushed by the shaft instead of pulled, as this would make
> the mechanism a
> bit simpler. I could do a drawing of what I am thinking if
> you are not
> following.
>
> While it was not my intention to begin producing kits, if
> there is enough
> interest, I could be persuaded to fabricate a few.
>
> Thanks, Jason
>
> Jason Kreidler - 40617 Finishing
> (4 Partner Build)
__________________________________________________________
Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
Message 2
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VHMUM(at)bigpond.com wrote:
> Ron I too had to cut heaps off but seem sturdy once fitted.
>
> Chis
>
I got mine from Van's about a year ago, and I'm 1/16" long on the left and 1/16"
short on the right. Will sand the left but I can't see trying to build up the
right - maybe some leftover micro or something.
I found the trailing edge rib an issue. It doesn't appear to be large enough. I
added a scab piece which helped a little.
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182116#182116
Message 3
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The chord line on the wing tips should be 56 inches. My left tip was perfect and
required no adjustment, but my right tip was 1/4" short at 55 3/4 inches.
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/07Wings/wings99o.html
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/07Wings/index10.html
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
-------- Original Message --------
>
>
> VHMUM(at)bigpond.com wrote:
> > Ron I too had to cut heaps off but seem sturdy once fitted.
> >
> > Chis
> >
>
>
> I got mine from Van's about a year ago, and I'm 1/16" long on the left and 1/16"
short on the right. Will sand the left but I can't see trying to build up
the right - maybe some leftover micro or something.
>
> I found the trailing edge rib an issue. It doesn't appear to be large enough.
I added a scab piece which helped a little.
> John
>
> --------
> #40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished
> N711JG reserved
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182116#182116
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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Hey William,
Thanks for the pictures ... the nav antenna pictures and tie downs are even more
of interest to us right now than wing tip length.
Later, - Lew
do not archive
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
doors almost finished, pants on, WHEW!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182148#182148
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator noise |
Howdy:
Any electrical gurus: I need an alternator noise filter (28v system). Any ideas
where to get a good one at a reasonable price?
Thanks!
Jeff
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator noise |
I'm far from a guru, But I converted my Tripacer from a Generator to
alternator a couple years ago. I tried to solve alternator noise with a
progression of "Cheap" to Expensive filters to no avail.
Turns out the cure was the ground to the antenna. While sufficient with the
generator, I needed a better, slightly heavier wire - then no problems.
On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 11:19 AM, <darnpilot@aol.com> wrote:
> Howdy:
>
>
> Any electrical gurus: I need an alternator noise filter (28v system). Any ideas
where to get a good one at a reasonable price?
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> Jeff
>
> ------------------------------
> Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com<http://www.mapquest.com/?ncid=mpqmap00030000000004>:
> America's #1 Mapping Site.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | For Sale - RMI uMonitor - NEW - All Probes and Upgrades! |
Dear Listers,
I am selling a new, never used, fully assembled RMI uMonitor with all the probes
for a 4-cylinder engine including Fuel Flow, 4ea EGT, 4ea CGT, Carb Temp, and
Manifold pressure. The uMonitor just had all of the latest hardware and software
updates factory installed including the new high contrast LCD display supporting
Fahrenheit temp readings AND the new LED fiberoptic backlight. Also
included is the Aircraft Extras RM-1B plugin harness extender for the uMonitor
which greatly simplifies the wiring installation.
The uMonitor is in new condition with no scratches and all installation material
and manuals. The pictures below are of the actual unit for sale. The table
below lists all of the items included.
I have nearly $2800 invested in this complete system. I will sell it for $2200
plus shipping to anywhere in the world. I can accept Visa/MC. First come, first
served.
Please email me off list at dralle@matronics.com if you are interested.
Matt Dralle
List Admin / RV-4 Builder
1ea - RMI microMONITOR Assembled . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1299.00 $1299.00
1ea - Factory Upgrade of LCD (Fahrenheit Temp Display),
. . . . Fiberoptic LED Backlight, Latest Firmware. . . . . .$ 399.00 $ 399.00
1ea - Manifold Pressure Sensor 10.0 to 59.0 InHg. . . . . . $ 68.00 $ 68.00
2ea - EGT/CHT Multiplex Switch 2 to 6 cylinders . . . . . . $ 60.00 $ 120.00
1ea - Fuel Flow sensor, FloScan 201B-6 - .6 to 60.0 GPH. . .$ 230.00 $ 230.00
1ea - Carb Temp Sensor . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 55.00 $ 55.00
4ea - EGT Thermocouple - tubing clamp type . . . . . . . . .$ 65.00 $ 260.00
4ea - CHT Thermocouple - bayonet type. . . . . . . . . . . .$ 50.00 $ 200.00
1ea - RM-1B Harness Expander, Aircraft Extras. . . . . . . .$ 155.00 $ 155.00
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $2786.00
Message 8
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| Subject: | For Sale - Skyforce Skymap IIIC - NEW - Latest Database |
Dear Listers,
I am selling my new-in-box Skyforce Skymap IIIC full color GPS moving map with
Topo. The database and firmware were just upgraded 05/2008. Includes a Panel
Mounting bracket, GPS Antenna, cigarette lighter adapter, carrying case, and
all manuals. Brand new, never used. No scratches. The pictures below are of
the actual unit. The LCD color display on the IIIC is extremely nice and very
bright. Gives altitude readout. RS232 output.
I have over $2500 invested in this complete system. I will sell it for $2200 plus
shipping to anywhere in the world. I can accept Visa/MC. First come, first
served.
Please email me off list at dralle@matronics.com if you are interested.
Matt Dralle
List Admin / RV-4 Builder
1ea - Skyforce Skymap IIIC w/ GPS and Americas Database. . .$2367.00 . .$2367.00
1ea - Panel Mount. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$98.00 . . .$98.00
1ea - Firmware and Database Update 5/8/2008. . . . . . . . . .$50.00 . . .$50.00
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $2515.00
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Recent Maintenance - Tires and Brake Lines |
I would agree having the right tool is worth the investment. There are
inexpensive options at HF and I can pretty much balance a tire using a pipe
as I did for numerous motorcycle changes. I know it works from experience
but in the end having the right tool would certainly expedite the time to do
it. Also I don't trust the shop to do something I "know" is right, like the
time they charged me for it and I know it wasn't done since the weight was
right where I marked it..
Pascal
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 5:41 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Recent Maintenance - Tires and Brake Lines
>
> Well, the Monster retreads aren't available in the RV-10
> size, so that's why I had to go with their
> "High Performance Retreads". I don't know that I'd want
> to stuff Monster Retreads under our fairings anyway.
> But, from a tire rubber perspective, they sound like they'll
> wear well. Next time though, it's genuine Goodyear's for
> me. The most recent Aviation Consumer review kind of
> points to the value of spending more on the tires and having
> them last longer.
>
> BTW: With the wear pattern I had, I had one tire start showing
> cords, and you could put fingers on the inside and outside
> and feel the tire was very thin....so for all you folks
> running the tires like that, pay close attention. When you
> see cords, you're really past replacement time by a bit...
> there's not much tire there.
>
> Regarding the balancer.... Well, my local shop likes to
> charge $35, which is a total ripoff, but in the end,
> it's a tool, and most tools tend to be long-term investments
> and just plain nice to have. Things like jackstands,
> balancers, and stuff like that can make it much more
> convenient to just pop off a tire and check it's balance
> on a whim. I think tool ownership can help motivate
> perhaps more meticulous maintenance levels, because you're
> not hindered for time and convenience or cost. Not only
> that, but this same balancer could be used to balance my
> lawn mower blades and stuff too. :)
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> William Curtis wrote:
>> <wcurtis@nerv10.com>
>>
>> Tim,
>>
>> I second the opinion on those Monster retreads. I had the same
>> uneven wear on the Cardinal and also went with the retreads from the
>> Aviation Consumer recommendation. They have held up very well and do
>> NOT show the uneven wear on the outer edge that the the normal tires
>> exhibited. I did have to replace one as it seems my left brake was
>> stuck on landing and a flat spot was worn into it. I'm convinced
>> that if this was a normal and not a Monster retread, the tire would
>> have failed.
>>
>> As for the balancing, I usually take it to the local motorcycle shop
>> for $10 per tire. How may time would I have to use that balancer
>> before it pays for itself?
>>
>> William http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
>>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Missing index holes in doors |
Van's subcontracts the fiberglass work and I think someone once told me th
ey sub out the weldments also. Can you say lowest bidder?
Michael
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of MauleDriver
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Missing index holes in doors
John, I like the idea of the jigs for subsequent alignment. As I understan
d it, the doors 'float' and I can imagine that precise alignment later can
be key for a craftsman like job. I'm going to check out those 4" clamps to
o. Thanks.
So, is Vans' fiberglass quality (steel weldments quality too) a result of i
t not being a core competency of theirs? The aluminum stuff is just so sw
eet and the fiberglass such a pain. Or is it just the nature of working in
hand laid composites versus CAD/CNC produced aluminum structures.
Is Lancair's stuff substantially 'better'. Plastic Germain sailplane equip
ment is fine stuff but it seems just as painful to work with as this stuff
- but that is not an apples to apples comparison.
Re "Core Competency"; I mis-drilled a big 'ol #19 hold thru a piece of alum
inum and the glass top. After referring to Acceptable Methods, I called Te
ch Support to discuss how to best fabricate a patch for the aluminum. They
sort of laughed off my concern about the aluminum and suggested that nothi
ng was really required. A subsequent check with engineering resulted in th
e same thing, i.e., the aluminum is probably fine but you can patch if you
want. However, the hole in the glass was a concern. I needed to be sure to
plug with structural filler such as flox. I'm thinking, 'duh, I know what
to do with the glass hole but my main concern was with the aluminum struct
ure. I guess it's just what you are most comfortable with.
John Gonzalez wrote:
The four inch hand spring clamps work great too rather than making holes in
the canopy top...that is provided you still don't have either the windscre
en or the rear windows in. A helpful hint also is to cut strips of 1/16 or
1/8" ply to distribute the force of the clamps. The clamps can be placed ab
out 3-4 inches apart from one another.
As per indexing holes on the halves, only two of mine lined up anyway on ea
ch door. They were pretty worthless. Vans fiberglass???
Here is something no one else has mentioned. In addition to the dog ears on
the lower half of the doors which index the door to the fuselage opening,
I also made an aluminum jig from 1/8" aluminum. It was held onto the door w
ith two clecoes and one hole into the existing open holes in the fuse(Total
three clecoes each jig). Each door has a fore and a aft jig.These serves t
o keep the alignment after the dog ears are removed and can be used for all
types of things. Makes sure that any subsequent fitting or sealing or pin
adjusting, etc is done in exactly the same door position. KEY!
JG
> Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 08:57:27 -0400
> From: MauleDriver@nc.rr.com<mailto:MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com<mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Missing index holes in doors
>
to:MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>
> It sounds like this approach addressed the centering of the latch
> mechanism too.
>
> Does the cleco'ing mean that you drilled holes around the primeter of
> the door and top to clamp it during the gluing? Makes sense to me at
> this point.
>
> Bill "itchy" Watson
>
> Indran Chelvanayagam wrote:
> > <dc71@netspace.net.au><mailto:dc71@netspace.net.au>
> >
> > From my experience with the green doors, the provided index holes
> > weren't very accurate, and do affect the final fit of the door.
> >
> > For my second set of (pink) doors, I centered the C-1002-B inner door
> > shells in the cabin top cutout. You'll find that they will slide about
> > 20 mm fore and aft, and about 25 mm up and down in the cutout. I
> > marked the extent of travel in all directions, then centered the door,
> > and back drilled the door from the existing holes in the aluminium
> > structure. The right door's index holes were correct, but the left
> > door's index holes were off by about 2-3 mm.
> >
> > The outer door shell can then be centered on the inner door shell,
> > using the window joggle as a reference, and the four corner holes
> > drilled.
> >
> > FWIW, I continued to cleco the door shells all around their perimeter,
> > rather than relying on clamps/weights to hold them together when gluing
.
> >
> > Now trimmed, hinged and latched, the doors fit extremely well.
> >
> > Indran
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> The first step in working with the doors is to locate and drill 6
> >> index holes per door (45-02). The 2 fore index marks are missing and
> >> one of the window index holes has been ground away. I have the pink
> >> doors.
> >>
> >> Has anyone else run into this? How did you address it.
> >> I have a call into Vans and they are going to attempt to take
> >> measurements. This isn't going to be easy given the compound curves
> >> and lack of clean straight lines. I wonder how critical the precise
> >> location of these holes is?
> >>
> >> Bill "starting the door journey" Watson
> >> Durham 40605
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
&g===============
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution
Message 11
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| Subject: | For Sale - RMI uEncoder - NEW - Assembled |
Dear Listers,
I am selling a new, never used, fully assembled RMI uEncoder. The uEncoder just
had all of the latest hardware and software updates factory installed including
the new high contrast LCD display supporting Fahrenheit temp readings AND
the new LED fiberoptic backlight. The uEncoder displays airspeed, altitude, fpm,
OAT, and outputs Mode C data for most transponders.
The uEncoder is in new condition with no scratches and all installation material
and manuals. The pictures below are of the actual unit for sale. The table
below lists all of the items included.
I have nearly $1500 invested in this complete system. I will sell it for $1100
plus shipping to anywhere in the world. I can accept Visa/MC. First come, first
served.
Please email me off list at dralle@matronics.com if you are interested.
Matt Dralle
List Admin / RV-4 Builder
1ea - RMI microENCODER ASSEMBLED . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1179.00 . $1179.00
1ea - RMI Factory Upgrade of LCD (Fahrenheit Temp, US Miles),
. . . . . . Fiberoptic LED Backlight, Latest Firmware . . . . . $ 315.00 . $ 315.00
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1494.00
Message 12
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| Subject: | Missing index holes in doors |
You would be mistaken if you believe it has anything to do with lowest
bidder. Van tends to award a lot of production items to friends,
acquaintances and established business relationships. Can anyone
identify the parts used that have a connection to Tom Green, President?
Van may be frugal but going for the lowest bid implies a willingness to
cut a corner and that is not necessarily connected.
Now having more than a single supplier might be a great QC idea. QC is
an issue that deserves discussion.
Contrary to some feeling the RV-10 composite is superior in production
finish to Lancair, I say Bunk. The chemistry and quality of fitment is
generations ahead of Vans. JMHO. I understand that Vans does sub out
both the weldment and the metal treatment to single source. His loyalty
to suppliers is legendary.
John
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From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 2:12 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Missing index holes in doors
Van's subcontracts the fiberglass work and I think someone once told me
they sub out the weldments also. Can you say lowest bidder?
Michael
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Message 13
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| Subject: | Missing index holes in doors |
You are correct that the quality of the VANS composite parts are below
others. Having built a Glastar, I find that even the Glastar parts of 10
years ago superior to VANS current efforts in the composite area.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 3:27 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Missing index holes in doors
You would be mistaken if you believe it has anything to do with lowest
bidder. Van tends to award a lot of production items to friends,
acquaintances and established business relationships. Can anyone identify
the parts used that have a connection to Tom Green, President? Van may be
frugal but going for the lowest bid implies a willingness to cut a corner
and that is not necessarily connected.
Now having more than a single supplier might be a great QC idea. QC is an
issue that deserves discussion.
Contrary to some feeling the RV-10 composite is superior in production
finish to Lancair, I say Bunk. The chemistry and quality of fitment is
generations ahead of Vans. JMHO. I understand that Vans does sub out both
the weldment and the metal treatment to single source. His loyalty to
suppliers is legendary.
John
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 2:12 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Missing index holes in doors
Van's subcontracts the fiberglass work and I think someone once told me
they sub out the weldments also. Can you say lowest bidder?
Michael
Do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Missing index holes in doors |
It is unfortunate that the Repeat Offenders and new Van kit builders
believe the Vans parts to be acceptable. The developments in solvents,
cements, potting compounds and substrates are easily a decade ahead of
what is "Vans - State of the Art". I found it interesting to hear the
guys at Composites Unlimited who are equal or second only to Scaled
Composites in moving the bar.
They can often tell by the product who built it and what was used
because the changes have been so pronounced. What the RV-10 list needs
are Composite guys like you who have dealt with professionals at Phoenix
Composites to bring us into the 21st century and not circa 1958. Abarus
training in Nevada does a pretty compelling job and then you stack it
against the home projects at OSH and it all falls into a logical order.
John
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 4:00 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Missing index holes in doors
You are correct that the quality of the VANS composite parts are below
others. Having built a Glastar, I find that even the Glastar parts of 10
years ago superior to VANS current efforts in the composite area.
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 3:27 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Missing index holes in doors
You would be mistaken if you believe it has anything to do with lowest
bidder. Van tends to award a lot of production items to friends,
acquaintances and established business relationships. Can anyone
identify the parts used that have a connection to Tom Green, President?
Van may be frugal but going for the lowest bid implies a willingness to
cut a corner and that is not necessarily connected.
Now having more than a single supplier might be a great QC idea. QC is
an issue that deserves discussion.
Contrary to some feeling the RV-10 composite is superior in production
finish to Lancair, I say Bunk. The chemistry and quality of fitment is
generations ahead of Vans. JMHO. I understand that Vans does sub out
both the weldment and the metal treatment to single source. His loyalty
to suppliers is legendary.
John
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 2:12 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Missing index holes in doors
Van's subcontracts the fiberglass work and I think someone once told me
they sub out the weldments also. Can you say lowest bidder?
Michael
Do not archive
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
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href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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Message 15
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Just did weight and balance today and came out at 1621 pounds . It is
painted and basic panel with flightlines interior
Chris 388
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