Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:55 AM - Re: Exhaust fitting problem (Tim Olson)
2. 05:07 AM - Re: Exhaust fitting problem (Jesse Saint)
3. 05:44 AM - Re: Exhaust fitting problem (David McNeill)
4. 06:31 AM - J Channel & Bulkheads (John Testement)
5. 07:14 AM - Re: J Channel & Bulkheads (linn Walters)
6. 07:38 AM - Re: J Channel & Bulkheads (PJ Seipel)
7. 09:08 AM - Re: Exhaust fitting problem (Jim Berry)
8. 03:28 PM - OT - Explain This (Jesse Saint)
9. 03:44 PM - Re: OT - Explain This (Chris and Susie McGough)
10. 04:02 PM - Re: Exhaust fitting problem (McGANN, Ron)
11. 04:02 PM - Re: OT - Explain This (SteinAir, Inc.)
12. 04:29 PM - Re: OT - Explain This (Kelly McMullen)
13. 04:50 PM - Re: J Channel & Bulkheads (Tim Olson)
14. 04:56 PM - Re: OT - Explain This (John Gonzalez)
15. 05:22 PM - Re: OT - Explain This (Sam)
16. 09:55 PM - SlilckStart Troubleshooting (Dave Saylor)
17. 10:50 PM - Re: OT - Explain This (Robin Marks)
18. 11:20 PM - Re: HOUR TOTAL ON DOORS (AirMike)
19. 11:30 PM - Re: OT - Explain This (Chris and Susie McGough)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust fitting problem |
Ron,
I'd say if you've spent a couple hours on it and you haven't had
luck, and you actually think you see something that doesn't look
correct, I'd just call and ask for a new exhaust manifold.
I know, you're far away, so that's a pain, but I'm sure you
can get satisfaction on the parts....even if you have to send
the old one back to the place that makes them.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
McGANN, Ron wrote:
> G'day all,
>
> After 4.25 years of building and having everything fit beautifully, I
> finally get to the very last set of plans (FF-6 Exhaust installation).
> Install the right side first, still amazed at how everything 'just
> fits'. Finished the routing of the alternator and starter wires and
> pulled out the last piece of the kit that was left - the left hand
> exhaust manifold.
>
> There is no way that this puppy will fit. The riser for #2 cylinder
> seems to have been welded incorrectly and there is nowhere near enough
> adjustment to have the stack fit the exhaust ports.
>
> Has anyone else experienced this or am I SOL, right at the finish line??
>
> Thanks in advance for any responses - no 'cheers' today ;-<
>
> Ron
> 187 hobbled at the end
>
>
> "Warning:
> The information contained in this email and any attached files is
> confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
> recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
> attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
> in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
> taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
> however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
> sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
> checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
> your computer."
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust fitting problem |
Can you take a picture holding it up to the engine so we can see any
possible differences between it and ours? That may help somebody
actually see by comparison where it seems wrong. I'm pretty sure
Vetterman mounts them to an engine for welding, but can't say for sure.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Jun 4, 2008, at 12:54 AM, McGANN, Ron wrote:
> G'day all,
>
> After 4.25 years of building and having everything fit beautifully,
> I finally get to the very last set of plans (FF-6 Exhaust
> installation). Install the right side first, still amazed at how
> everything 'just fits'. Finished the routing of the alternator and
> starter wires and pulled out the last piece of the kit that was left
> - the left hand exhaust manifold.
>
> There is no way that this puppy will fit. The riser for #2 cylinder
> seems to have been welded incorrectly and there is nowhere near
> enough adjustment to have the stack fit the exhaust ports.
>
> Has anyone else experienced this or am I SOL, right at the finish
> line??
>
> Thanks in advance for any responses - no 'cheers' today ;-<
>
> Ron
> 187 hobbled at the end
>
>
> "Warning:
> The information contained in this email and any attached files is
> confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
> recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
> attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
> in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
> taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
> however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
> sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
> checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
> your computer."
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Exhaust fitting problem |
Welding , although an important skill, is not rocket science. If you are
convinced of a mistake was made your best bet is to have it corrected
locally. IIRC there was a mistake in mine and I noticed it well before the
end game. The welding contractor repaired the product but lost my address.
One day when wondering why it never returned I called them and gave them my
info again. Given your distance I suggest you have an aircraft certified
welder do it there. I would expect that Vans or Aircraft Exhaust
Technologies would provide compensation. Just send them a good digital
picture of the problem.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 9:54 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Exhaust fitting problem
G'day all,
After 4.25 years of building and having everything fit beautifully, I
finally get to the very last set of plans (FF-6 Exhaust installation).
Install the right side first, still amazed at how everything 'just fits'.
Finished the routing of the alternator and starter wires and pulled out the
last piece of the kit that was left - the left hand exhaust manifold.
There is no way that this puppy will fit. The riser for #2 cylinder seems
to have been welded incorrectly and there is nowhere near enough adjustment
to have the stack fit the exhaust ports.
Has anyone else experienced this or am I SOL, right at the finish line??
Thanks in advance for any responses - no 'cheers' today ;-<
Ron
187 hobbled at the end
"Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached files is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
your computer."
Message 4
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| Subject: | J Channel & Bulkheads |
I have had an interesting comment by both an A&P and and RV6 builder while
looking over my plane. They pointed out that in the tailcone the edges of
the J channels touch the bulkhead cutouts. They were concerned that the
contact under vibration could create a crack in the bulkheads. They both
suggested that I bend the J channel edges down to prevent the contact. This
seems like a lot of work (especially in the tight tailcone). I am wondering
if anyone else has been concerned about this or has bothered to bend J
channels. Is there a building standard about contact between parts like
this?
John Testement
HYPERLINK "mailto:jwt@roadmapscoaching.com"jwt@roadmapscoaching.com
40321
Richmond, VA
Painting and final assembly
Checked by AVG.
7:00 AM
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: J Channel & Bulkheads |
That's a tough one! In my mind (may not be a good thing :-P ) any wear
will become an 'interference fit' and won't be sharp-edged. The wear
pattern would be smooth, like a fine file. and wouldn't be a source of
stress cracks. If there was pressure to the face of the bulkhead, then
I may see it a little differently. A little, little differently. Your
buddy has good eyes, though!!!
Linn YMMV
do not archive
John Testement wrote:
> I have had an interesting comment by both an A&P and and RV6 builder
> while looking over my plane. They pointed out that in the tailcone the
> edges of the J channels touch the bulkhead cutouts. They were
> concerned that the contact under vibration could create a crack in the
> bulkheads. They both suggested that I bend the J channel edges down to
> prevent the contact. This seems like a lot of work (especially in the
> tight tailcone). I am wondering if anyone else has been concerned
> about this or has bothered to bend J channels. Is there a building
> standard about contact between parts like this?
>
> John Testement
> jwt@roadmapscoaching.com <mailto:jwt@roadmapscoaching.com>
> 40321
> Richmond, VA
> Painting and final assembly
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: J Channel & Bulkheads |
I noticed it during construction and filed the holes in the bulkheads a
little bigger so they didn't touch. Not sure if it is/was necessary though.
PJ Seipel
RV-10 #40032
John Testement wrote:
> I have had an interesting comment by both an A&P and and RV6 builder
> while looking over my plane. They pointed out that in the tailcone the
> edges of the J channels touch the bulkhead cutouts. They were
> concerned that the contact under vibration could create a crack in the
> bulkheads. They both suggested that I bend the J channel edges down to
> prevent the contact. This seems like a lot of work (especially in the
> tight tailcone). I am wondering if anyone else has been concerned
> about this or has bothered to bend J channels. Is there a building
> standard about contact between parts like this?
>
> John Testement
> jwt@roadmapscoaching.com <mailto:jwt@roadmapscoaching.com>
> 40321
> Richmond, VA
> Painting and final assembly
>
>
>
>
> Checked by AVG.
> 6/3/2008 7:00 AM
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust fitting problem |
Ron,
I just did this step a couple of months ago, and at first I could not see any way
it was going to fit. By leaving the exhaust stud nuts very loose I was able
to get an approximate fit of the pipes into the collector. Snugged down the
nuts a little at a time, and it all came together. If yours doesn't work that
way I would ask Van's for a new one, as Tim suggested.
Jim Berry
40482
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186233#186233
Message 8
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| Subject: | OT - Explain This |
Can anybody explain why I can put diesel in my truck at the gas
station for $4.80/gal and can put JetA in my plane (assuming I have a
turbine) for $4.57?
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: OT - Explain This |
I wish fuel for either was that cheap here, mind you would not want to
live in the UK with there prices double what ours are here in Aus
regards Chris
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Jesse Saint
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 8:22 AM
Subject: RV10-List: OT - Explain This
Can anybody explain why I can put diesel in my truck at the gas
station for $4.80/gal and can put JetA in my plane (assuming I have a
turbine) for $4.57?
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust fitting problem |
Hi Guys,
I received a response from Larry Vetterman overnight as follows:
"Ron, this system was built on a Lycoming so it will fit and in fact it
was placed on the engine to check for final fit. I do believe that you
have got the pipes out of alignment by moving the ball joints which is
forward and rear movement and then sideways also which can be checked by
alignment or mis alignment of the connecting links on pipes 2 and 6 and
also on the collector. Start over by mounting each individual pipe with
out the collector and align #2 and #6 with #4 . #4 is the only ridgid
pipe so align to it. when they all line up you can loosen the nuts on
the flanges and slide the collector part way on. then align the
connecting links if need. Try this as the pipes do not need trimmed
the #4 gives your forward and rear placement. Larry"
I checked my manifold last night before I received Larry's email and it
appears he is spot on the money. The ball joint (or slip joint) on the
#2 (ie forward) riser was jammed and out of position - I would have
sworn that it was welded in place and not meant to move. After much
huffing and puffing and a considerable amount of lubricant/penetrant
(gotta get some 'Mouse Milk'), the joint finally loosened. I haven't
tried to re-instal yet, but it looks like that was the problem.
So for those yet to get to this point, the pipe joints that look like
they should move really do move, and may need to be lubricated. The key
to correct alignment is the middle riser (#4). I would have loved to
have seen Larry's response before I started the installation - would
have saved some grief so present it here for the archives.
So it looks like I now only have one issue - thinking that I am at the
finish line (thanks heaps Robin!!)
Cheers,
Ron
187 up and running again
"Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached files is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
your computer."
Message 11
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| Subject: | OT - Explain This |
Simple....taxes!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 5:23 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: OT - Explain This
Can anybody explain why I can put diesel in my truck at the gas station
for $4.80/gal and can put JetA in my plane (assuming I have a turbine) for
$4.57?
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: OT - Explain This |
Road use tax. Just about the difference between the two. I just put
diesel in my VW at the nearest truck stop...$4.59. However, just drove
from NJ to AZ, and saw some places with diesel over $5. It has to be
killing both the truckers and the airlines, with prices about double
what they paid 12 months ago.
On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 6:22 PM, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com> wrote:
> Can anybody explain why I can put diesel in my truck at the gas station for
> $4.80/gal and can put JetA in my plane (assuming I have a turbine) for
> $4.57?
> do not archive
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> jesse@saintaviation.com
> Cell: 352-427-0285
> Fax: 815-377-3694
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: J Channel & Bulkheads |
If you bend the J-channel, it will lose strength. The best way to
fix it is to file some gap into the bulkhead cutouts and then deburr
it. Yes, it's a lot of work, but the person/people who told you they
were worried about cracking are correct. Letting things "wear in"
just isn't right.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John Testement wrote:
> I have had an interesting comment by both an A&P and and RV6 builder
> while looking over my plane. They pointed out that in the tailcone the
> edges of the J channels touch the bulkhead cutouts. They were concerned
> that the contact under vibration could create a crack in the bulkheads.
> They both suggested that I bend the J channel edges down to prevent the
> contact. This seems like a lot of work (especially in the tight
> tailcone). I am wondering if anyone else has been concerned about this
> or has bothered to bend J channels. Is there a building standard about
> contact between parts like this?
>
> John Testement
> jwt@roadmapscoaching.com <mailto:jwt@roadmapscoaching.com>
> 40321
> Richmond, VA
> Painting and final assembly
>
>
>
> Checked by AVG.
> 6/3/2008 7:00 AM
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | OT - Explain This |
MOre importantly, the airlines are paying $3.47 a gallon for jet A. Yah, Ya
h, bulk volume discounts. What else????
From: jesse@saintaviation.comTo: rv10-list@matronics.comSubject: RV10-List:
OT - Explain ThisDate: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 18:22:38 -0400Can anybody explain w
hy I can put diesel in my truck at the gas station for $4.80/gal and can pu
t JetA in my plane (assuming I have a turbine) for $4.57?
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: OT - Explain This |
Well Jesse, I might be able to explane. The gas stations pump a lot of
Gas, and have limited storage. The price /should/ only change, when the
tanks are filled. The tankers can only carry 8,000 gallons a load. With
todays frequent fluctuation's, and high volume sales, that means every
few days, and in some cases every day, they receive a tanker load, and
are subject to price change, up or down.
Now, back to airports, they sometimes have as much as half a million
gallon storage tanks, filled by barge, rail car, or pipeline. They fill
their tanks less frequently, so prices can be slower to change.
When you buy a load of fuel, as a dealer, you pay before the driver
drops his load in your tanks. Sometimes, an FBO will raise his price,
before his next load, just because he can.
It's a free market system, you can charge whatever you want.
I hope I didn't ramble to much, does this makes sense?
Former FBO
Sam Marlow
RV10/ #40157
Jesse Saint wrote:
> Can anybody explain why I can put diesel in my truck at the gas
> station for $4.80/gal and can put JetA in my plane (assuming I have a
> turbine) for $4.57?
>
> do not archive
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> jesse@saintaviation.com <mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com>
> Cell: 352-427-0285
> Fax: 815-377-3694
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 16
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| Subject: | SlilckStart Troubleshooting |
If your SlickStart doesn't seem to be starting so slick, read on.
Our RV-10 developed a starting problem in that in suddenly becare VERY
difficult to start. For 130 hours it had been starting quite nicely, but
the last time I tired, I just had to give up.
N921AC has two slick mags, one with retard points on the left, and a
SlickStart solid state starting module, essentially a newer version of the
Shower of Sparks system.
I went through all the normal troubleshooting and figured the problem must
be the SlickStart module. I wasn't getting any spark at the plug with the
SlickStart powered up and the retard points in firing position. I called
Unison just to make sure I was checking the right things, and they confirmed
it had to be the SlickStart. So I changed it.
No help. I checked as many things as I could think of: timing, p-leads,
harness, fuse, grounds.. I knew the points were opening because my timing
box was indicating OK. I knew the mag was basically sound because when we
had managed to get it started (I won't go into how...), it ran fine with a
normal mag drop.
I finally gave up and sent the mag and both SlickStarts (old one and new
one) to LyCon, where I got my engine. They put it on their magneto bench,
and came up with the following explanation. This is somewhat untested, but
it makes sense and all the evidence >>points<< to it. Sorry, I couldn't
resist.
Ken at LyCon explained to me that the capacitor had failed, and in so doing
had caused the frame of the points (both sets, I guess), to get warm enough
to accelerate the wear of the cam follower. So, both points were
technically opening, but just barely enough to trip the timing light. Maybe
.001 or .002 inches instead of .012 or more. That does make sense, because
one of the first things I did was to check the mag timing, and I found it
had advanced about 10 degrees, to about 15 BTC on the main points and about
10 past TC on the retard points. I just reset the timing and went on
troubleshooting. As the cam follower wears, it retards the spark.
Part of the SlickStart troubleshooting says to look for ~300 volts from the
output. If the points were barely opening, I think that 300 volts would be
able to jump the gap and essentially ground through the retard points
instead of exciting the primary coil.
I installed my old mag after LyCon replaced boths sets of points and the
capacitor, and it worked fine.
So the upshot is, if the SlickStart troubleshooting points to a bad module,
it's probably worth physically checking the point gap with a feeler gauge,
instead of just with the timing box before you replace the module.
In retrospect I wish Unison would have suggested that.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
135 hours
Message 17
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| Subject: | OT - Explain This |
The corner gas station situation is more complicated than limited
storage. In most brand name locations (I have very close ties to two
Shell stations) the station owners have zero say in fuel deliveries. All
the handling, receipt of payments, taxes, delivery schedules are handled
by Shell. If the owner thinks fuel is going to go up they cannot request
additional fuel. The Shell truck shows up when Shell decides to fuel
them. Corporate is tied electronically into the individual storage tanks
and often the fueling truck shows up with less than a 2 hour supply left
in the tanks. Then they fill up the tanks =BC of capacity. From my point
of view the station owner gets the short end of the stick at every turn.
Recently they had back to back $0.10 increases, up $0.20 in 2 days
followed by a $0.27 increase in diesel in one day. Diesel is well into
the mid $5.00's in CA.
The rule of thumb in gas station/convenience store ownership is you sell
the gas at no profit to entice the motorist into buy the cigarettes. You
sell the cigarettes at cost to drive beer sales. And you sell beer as a
loss leader to get people in to buy fuel.
Expect many gas stations to close in the next 5 years.
I also have a connection with a 400+ station owner consortium that is
involved in a class action suit claiming unfair business practices.
Example the fuel distributor also owns many of the stations in the area.
Guess who gets the lowest price fuel first and has advanced notice of
fuel price changes?
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: OT - Explain This
Well Jesse, I might be able to explane. The gas stations pump a lot of
Gas, and have limited storage. The price should only change, when the
tanks are filled. The tankers can only carry 8,000 gallons a load. With
todays frequent fluctuation's, and high volume sales, that means every
few days, and in some cases every day, they receive a tanker load, and
are subject to price change, up or down.
Now, back to airports, they sometimes have as much as half a million
gallon storage tanks, filled by barge, rail car, or pipeline. They fill
their tanks less frequently, so prices can be slower to change.
When you buy a load of fuel, as a dealer, you pay before the driver
drops his load in your tanks. Sometimes, an FBO will raise his price,
before his next load, just because he can.
It's a free market system, you can charge whatever you want.
I hope I didn't ramble to much, does this makes sense?
Former FBO
Sam Marlow
RV10/ #40157
Jesse Saint wrote:
Can anybody explain why I can put diesel in my truck at the gas station
for $4.80/gal and can put JetA in my plane (assuming I have a turbine)
for $4.57?
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: HOUR TOTAL ON DOORS |
I would agree that 269 hrs is a reasonable time to spend on the doors and the hinge
- locking mechanism
--------
OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09
Q/B Kit - exited cabin top/door purgatory
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186333#186333
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: OT - Explain This |
Yes but look at the big picture why is oil going up "Futures" (stock
market) some insignificant problem and the futures boys go off. Look at
Bloomberg. The Iranian Preident basically said there is no supply
problem its the Futures wankers in the States that are driveing the
price up.
Yes he might be a wolly and right or wrong Oil has dropped about $6
barrel in the last couple of days.
I dont know a bloke just wants to fly his plane !
Simplistic view I know but the corner petrol station can do nothing
about the 100% increase in fuel prices. Maybe a few cents or pennys
regards Chris
Still waiting on Dynon to be returned for first flight ( hoping to give
the government more fuel taxes soon)
----- Original Message -----
From: Robin Marks
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 3:43 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: OT - Explain This
The corner gas station situation is more complicated than limited
storage. In most brand name locations (I have very close ties to two
Shell stations) the station owners have zero say in fuel deliveries. All
the handling, receipt of payments, taxes, delivery schedules are handled
by Shell. If the owner thinks fuel is going to go up they cannot request
additional fuel. The Shell truck shows up when Shell decides to fuel
them. Corporate is tied electronically into the individual storage tanks
and often the fueling truck shows up with less than a 2 hour supply left
in the tanks. Then they fill up the tanks =BC of capacity. >From my
point of view the station owner gets the short end of the stick at every
turn. Recently they had back to back $0.10 increases, up $0.20 in 2 days
followed by a $0.27 increase in diesel in one day. Diesel is well into
the mid $5.00's in CA.
The rule of thumb in gas station/convenience store ownership is you
sell the gas at no profit to entice the motorist into buy the
cigarettes. You sell the cigarettes at cost to drive beer sales. And you
sell beer as a loss leader to get people in to buy fuel.
Expect many gas stations to close in the next 5 years.
I also have a connection with a 400+ station owner consortium that is
involved in a class action suit claiming unfair business practices.
Example the fuel distributor also owns many of the stations in the area.
Guess who gets the lowest price fuel first and has advanced notice of
fuel price changes?
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 5:18 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: OT - Explain This
Well Jesse, I might be able to explane. The gas stations pump a lot of
Gas, and have limited storage. The price should only change, when the
tanks are filled. The tankers can only carry 8,000 gallons a load. With
todays frequent fluctuation's, and high volume sales, that means every
few days, and in some cases every day, they receive a tanker load, and
are subject to price change, up or down.
Now, back to airports, they sometimes have as much as half a million
gallon storage tanks, filled by barge, rail car, or pipeline. They fill
their tanks less frequently, so prices can be slower to change.
When you buy a load of fuel, as a dealer, you pay before the driver
drops his load in your tanks. Sometimes, an FBO will raise his price,
before his next load, just because he can.
It's a free market system, you can charge whatever you want.
I hope I didn't ramble to much, does this makes sense?
Former FBO
Sam Marlow
RV10/ #40157
Jesse Saint wrote:
Can anybody explain why I can put diesel in my truck at the gas
station for $4.80/gal and can put JetA in my plane (assuming I have a
turbine) for $4.57?
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
http://www.matronic - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
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