Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:05 AM - Re: Re: garmin 430 tube question (Deems Davis)
2. 03:54 AM - Re: Service Bulletin 08-6-1 (Wayne Edgerton)
3. 04:33 AM - Re: Re: garmin 430 tube question (PJ Seipel)
4. 04:59 AM - Re: SB Info (Jesse Saint)
5. 05:28 AM - GRT Serial Connections (jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com)
6. 05:38 AM - Re: Service Bulletin 08-6-1 (Tim Olson)
7. 05:47 AM - Re: GRT Serial Connections (Rob Kermanj)
8. 06:24 AM - Re: GRT Serial Connections (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
9. 08:01 AM - Re: SB Info (John Gonzalez)
10. 08:29 AM - SB (David McNeill)
11. 08:34 AM - Re: SB Info (Jesse Saint)
12. 08:36 AM - Re: SB Info (MauleDriver)
13. 09:58 AM - Re: SB Info (pascal)
14. 12:22 PM - GRT and 430 waas upgrade-help (pilotdds@aol.com)
15. 12:36 PM - Re: GRT Serial Connections (William Curtis)
16. 01:53 PM - Re: GRT Serial Connections (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
17. 02:12 PM - Re: GRT Serial Connections (Thane States)
18. 02:39 PM - SB (Dsyvert@aol.com)
19. 03:15 PM - SB (Dave Saylor)
20. 04:09 PM - Re: SB (David McNeill)
21. 06:33 PM - SB (David McNeill)
22. 06:55 PM - SB (David McNeill)
23. 07:39 PM - Emailing: sb08-6-1[1] (David McNeill)
24. 08:39 PM - Re: Emailing: sb08-6-1[1] (Dave Saylor)
25. 09:04 PM - Re: Emailing: sb08-6-1[1] (Ben Westfall)
26. 09:06 PM - Re: Emailing: sb08-6-1[1] (Ben Westfall)
27. 09:34 PM - Re: Emailing: sb08-6-1[1] (David McNeill)
28. 10:36 PM - Re: Emailing: sb08-6-1[1] (Dave Leikam)
29. 11:13 PM - Re: Emailing: sb08-6-1[1] (Deems Davis)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: garmin 430 tube question |
It's been a while since I built the radio stack, but I'm pretty sure
that I used the screws that came with the SL 30 radio/rack. I just went
back and checked the log and I did have some interferrence with some of
the screws but they were for the 327 & 340, not the SL30 & 40.
Deems
Chris wrote:
>
> Deems,
> I see that and I guess I'll find a happy medium.
> Also, the sl30 does not have countersunk holes like the other radios,
> what type of screws did you use on the sl30 tray at the front (assume
> you had an sl30) ?
> Thanks
> Chris
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis@cox.net>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 8:55 PM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: garmin 430 tube question
>
>
>>
>> And just to make it fun for you the width of the SL30, is different
>> from the width of the 327 :-)
>>
>>
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>> Deems Davis # 406
>> 'Its all done....Its just not put together'
>> http://deemsrv10.com/
>> Chris wrote:
>>>
>>> Yep, I only have the trays now. I see what your saying. I have this
>>> as part of a stack. The GTX327 is this way too I think. But, the
>>> sl30 and gma340 do not have the lip.
>>> thanks
>>> -Chris
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Service Bulletin 08-6-1 |
Boy Robin I agree with you :>}
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
do not archive
Time: 01:07:59 PM PST US
Subject: Service Bulletin 08-6-1
From: "Robin Marks" <robin1@mrmoisture.com>
UmVnYXJkaW5nIFRpbSdzIGNvbW1lbnQNCg0KIk9uZSBwZXJzb24gc3VnZ2VzdGVkIHVzaW5nI
GEg
aGktcmVzIGRpZ2l0YWwgY2FtZXJhIChvciBIRCB2aWRlbyBjYW0gZm9yIHRoYXQgbWF0dGVyL
i4u
SSBqdXN0IGdvdCBvbmUpIHRvIGRvIHRoZSBpbnNwZWN0aW9uLg0KDQpQcm9iYWJseSBhIGdyZ
WF0
IGlkZWEuIg0KDQogDQoNCkkganVzdCBjYW1lIGFjcm9zcyB0aGlzIGRldmljZSBjYWxsZWQgY
SBR
dWlja1BvZCAofiQyNS4wMCkgT25lIGNvdWxkIHNldCB0aGUgdGltZXIgZm9yIGEgcGhvdG8gb
3Ig
anVzdCB2aWRlbyB0aGUgYXJlYToNCg0KIA0KDQogDQoNCiANCg0KIA0KDQo
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: garmin 430 tube question |
I used some flathead #6 screws because that's the only thing I could
find that wouldn't interfere. I didn't get any screws with my radio/rack.
PJ Seipel
RV-10 #40032
Deems Davis wrote:
>
> It's been a while since I built the radio stack, but I'm pretty sure
> that I used the screws that came with the SL 30 radio/rack. I just
> went back and checked the log and I did have some interferrence with
> some of the screws but they were for the 327 & 340, not the SL30 & 40.
>
> Deems
>
> Chris wrote:
>>
>> Deems,
>> I see that and I guess I'll find a happy medium.
>> Also, the sl30 does not have countersunk holes like the other radios,
>> what type of screws did you use on the sl30 tray at the front (assume
>> you had an sl30) ?
>> Thanks
>> Chris
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 8:55 PM
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: garmin 430 tube question
>>
>>
>>>
>>> And just to make it fun for you the width of the SL30, is different
>>> from the width of the 327 :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> do not archive
>>>
>>> Deems Davis # 406
>>> 'Its all done....Its just not put together'
>>> http://deemsrv10.com/
>>> Chris wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yep, I only have the trays now. I see what your saying. I have this
>>>> as part of a stack. The GTX327 is this way too I think. But, the
>>>> sl30 and gma340 do not have the lip.
>>>> thanks
>>>> -Chris
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 4
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That would be Ken Krueger.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Jun 10, 2008, at 8:39 PM, John Cox wrote:
> It would be great if you guys would add whether you are talking K.
> Scott or K. Krueger when offering advice from VANS. Maybe they have
> a Ken in shipping, Ken on cleanup and Ken in accounting. One is
> their propaganda minister and the other is a certified professional
> aeronautical engineer. One is fairly verbose and the other fairly
> quiet and conservative.
>
> This reminds me of many newspaper movie reviews that read "Ken G. of
> the #$% says it is a summer blockbuster hit".
>
> JC
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> ] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 4:21 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: SB Info
>
> I just got this from Ken at Van's. This explains where the damage
> occurred. He said that it could possibly be because their plane is
> used a little more harshly than the average because of the
> transition training, that is no license to just ignore it, which I
> don't think many were considering anyway. Just FYI.
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> jesse@saintaviation.com
> Cell: 352-427-0285
> Fax: 815-377-3694
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | GRT Serial Connections |
We are in the process of wiring our panel and would like to know if there
is anyone who has the same combination of avionics we have. We are
running into problems with the number of available serial ports to
communicate with. We are also uncertain as to what information is
communicated via the inter panel communication channels.
Is there anyone else with this combination:
(3) GRT HS Displays (One display has the ARINC 429, One Display has an
internal GPS, The last display is 'plain')
GRT XM Weather
Garmin GNS430W
Garmin SL30
Garmin GTX327
Garmin GMA347
Tru-Trak VSGVII
Anyone else already been through this? If so we would really like the
opportunity to pick your brain.
Thanks, Jason Kreidler
4-Partner Build (Jason Kreidler, Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elsner)
Sheboygan Falls, WI
#40617 Finishing
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Service Bulletin 08-6-1 |
I talked to another builder last night who had just completed
the SB on his newly painted but not-yet-flying RV-10. In fact,
he had JUST finished mounting the tail and was finalizing his
trim tab settings when he got the SB.
Sounds like the time involved is less than 4 hours for disassembly,
and a little over 4 hours for re-assembly, and that the riveting
itself is very easy. So you can plan on probably being able to
tackle it in a 10 hour day or less if everything goes smoothly.
I'm not sure exactly when I'll get mine done, but I'm hoping to
make it relatively soon, so I'll report back too.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: GRT Serial Connections |
Jason. I have an almost identical set up with the exception of Garmin
530W and no SL30. Call me later today 772-460-3907, say about 4:00 PM
eastern and I can fire up the panel and read you the set up. As an
alternative, I think that I can back up my settings and email them to
you. You may also contact GRT. They are VERY helpful.
Regards
Rob.
On Jun 11, 2008, at 8:25 AM, jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com wrote:
>
> We are in the process of wiring our panel and would like to know if
> there is anyone who has the same combination of avionics we have.
> We are running into problems with the number of available serial
> ports to communicate with. We are also uncertain as to what
> information is communicated via the inter panel communication
> channels.
>
> Is there anyone else with this combination:
> (3) GRT HS Displays (One display has the ARINC 429, One Display has
> an internal GPS, The last display is 'plain')
> GRT XM Weather
> Garmin GNS430W
> Garmin SL30
> Garmin GTX327
> Garmin GMA347
> Tru-Trak VSGVII
>
> Anyone else already been through this? If so we would really like
> the opportunity to pick your brain.
>
> Thanks, Jason Kreidler
> 4-Partner Build (Jason Kreidler, Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elsner)
> Sheboygan Falls, WI
> #40617 Finishing
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | GRT Serial Connections |
Jason,
I sent you an email off list - I have almost identical except 480
instead of 430W and a 330 instead of 327.
Bob
N442PM flying
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 7:25 AM
Subject: RV10-List: GRT Serial Connections
We are in the process of wiring our panel and would like to know if
there is anyone who has the same combination of avionics we have. We
are running into problems with the number of available serial ports to
communicate with. We are also uncertain as to what information is
communicated via the inter panel communication channels.
Is there anyone else with this combination:
(3) GRT HS Displays (One display has the ARINC 429, One Display has an
internal GPS, The last display is 'plain')
GRT XM Weather
Garmin GNS430W
Garmin SL30
Garmin GTX327
Garmin GMA347
Tru-Trak VSGVII
Anyone else already been through this? If so we would really like the
opportunity to pick your brain.
Thanks, Jason Kreidler
4-Partner Build (Jason Kreidler, Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elsner)
Sheboygan Falls, WI
#40617 Finishing
Message 9
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The thing that bothers my mind about this type of repair/doubler is that th
e bulkhead is made of relatively thin material. We are then backing it up w
ith a doubler that is to structurely reinforce the area, but in the process
we are fastening it onto the area with more holes/rivets. If the strain is
not entirely transfered to the entire area of the interface between the do
ubler and the bulkhead, then the stain will be more so transferred to the f
astening locations/rivets and thus can't those holes increase the chance of
crack propogation.
Why is not a flexible bonding method of fastening the double a possibly bet
ter avenue as it would tranfer the strain over a much larger surface area??
?
JOhn G. 409
From: jesse@saintaviation.comTo: rv10-list@matronics.comSubject: RV10-List:
SB InfoDate: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 19:20:51 -0400I just got this from Ken at Va
n's. This explains where the damage occurred. He said that it could possi
bly be because their plane is used a little more harshly than the average b
ecause of the transition training, that is no license to just ignore it, wh
ich I don't think many were considering anyway. Just FYI.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
Message 10
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I spoke with Scott R at Vans and the pictures of the actual crack should be
on their site by tomorrow. I don't believe that the diagram as previously
reported is correct, as the flat version of the part would actually have two
tabs at the outboard top edge. My understanding is that the crack would be
in the tab that is riveted to the longeron.
Message 11
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My understanding from Ken Krueger is that the bulkhead is a little too
thin and in the process of transferring the load from the HS to the
rest of the structure it is flexing more than it should be, so the
doubler helps limit the flexing to more effectively transfer the load
to the rest of the structure (longerons, skins, etc.). I'd rather
have rivets holding it on there than some other type of bond unless it
were screws or bolts, since that is the way the plane it put together
to start with.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Jun 11, 2008, at 10:58 AM, John Gonzalez wrote:
> The thing that bothers my mind about this type of repair/doubler is
> that the bulkhead is made of relatively thin material. We are then
> backing it up with a doubler that is to structurely reinforce the
> area, but in the process we are fastening it onto the area with more
> holes/rivets. If the strain is not entirely transfered to the entire
> area of the interface between the doubler and the bulkhead, then the
> stain will be more so transferred to the fastening locations/rivets
> and thus can't those holes increase the chance of crack propogation.
>
> Why is not a flexible bonding method of fastening the double a
> possibly better avenue as it would tranfer the strain over a much
> larger surface area???
>
> JOhn G. 409
>
>
> From: jesse@saintaviation.com
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: SB Info
> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 19:20:51 -0400
>
> I just got this from Ken at Van's. This explains where the damage
> occurred. He said that it could possibly be because their plane is
> used a little more harshly than the average because of the
> transition training, that is no license to just ignore it, which I
> don't think many were considering anyway. Just FYI.
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> jesse@saintaviation.com
> Cell: 352-427-0285
> Fax: 815-377-3694
>
>
Message 12
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This seems to be where we get to rely on decades worth of aluminum
aircraft engineering knowledge. Using known materials and a reliable
connector process applied in a specific way, we have a reliable fix.
Though it's probably noteworthy that the same approach was taken with
the original design that is now showing cracks (but no failures).
I'm guessing that a flexible bonding method might be superior - but I
have a difficult time thinking of how a reliable bonding process could
be defined and followed reliably in my shop. Temperature, surface
treatment and all that. I can deburr the parts and drive a dozen rivets
to a spec. I'm never 100% sure my last epoxy job is to spec.
Bill "still worrying the doors into place" Watson
John Gonzalez wrote:
> The thing that bothers my mind about this type of repair/doubler is
> that the bulkhead is made of relatively thin material. We are then
> backing it up with a doubler that is to structurely reinforce the
> area, but in the process we are fastening it onto the area with more
> holes/rivets. If the strain is not entirely transfered to the entire
> area of the interface between the doubler and the bulkhead, then the
> stain will be more so transferred to the fastening locations/rivets
> and thus can't those holes increase the chance of crack propogation.
>
> Why is not a flexible bonding method of fastening the double a
> possibly better avenue as it would tranfer the strain over a much
> larger surface area???
>
> JOhn G. 409
>
> *
> *
Message 13
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The way I have happily gone building the plane is thinking that by
deburring the edges and holes and assuring they are rounded spreads the
stress over the specific area. With rivets that are properly squeezed
(read not excessively, which would stress the hole) I think the doubler
would have enough holes spread out to diminish any one area except as a
whole and in turn be a stronger solution than before adding it..
P
From: John Gonzalez
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 7:58 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: SB Info
The thing that bothers my mind about this type of repair/doubler is that
the bulkhead is made of relatively thin material. We are then backing it
up with a doubler that is to structurely reinforce the area, but in the
process we are fastening it onto the area with more holes/rivets. If the
strain is not entirely transfered to the entire area of the interface
between the doubler and the bulkhead, then the stain will be more so
transferred to the fastening locations/rivets and thus can't those holes
increase the chance of crack propogation.
Why is not a flexible bonding method of fastening the double a possibly
better avenue as it would tranfer the strain over a much larger surface
area???
JOhn G. 409
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: jesse@saintaviation.com
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: SB Info
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 19:20:51 -0400
I just got this from Ken at Van's. This explains where the damage
occurred. He said that it could possibly be because their plane is used
a little more harshly than the average because of the transition
training, that is no license to just ignore it, which I don't think many
were considering anyway. Just FYI.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
Message 14
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| Subject: | GRT and 430 waas upgrade-help |
Has anyone with a grt panel had the waas upgrade.If so have you been succesful
in getting the glideslope and localizer to display on the grt.I reconfigured the
gps to the arnc settings per grand rapids but the gps messages that it is not
recieving the arnc.I hesitate to change the wiring to display the waas glideslope
info until I can solve the ILS display probem.The garmin indicator displays
as normal.Thanks-jim? 728DD
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: GRT Serial Connections |
Jason,
Your GRT configuration is and will probably continue to be a popular configuration.
I still have not decided on which solution I'm going with and will probably
not for a while yet even though most of the electrical work is done. Why
don't you share with the list what you are trying to accomplish. Those that
have sent suggestion off list, might I suggest sharing with the list for those
that are considering this same configuration.
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/91Panel/10PanelGRT.jpg
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/91Panel/index.html
Remember, for each transmit (Tx) serial line you can have multiple receivers (Rx).
Many of your listed devices only require one or the other. Only a few require
both Tx and Rx.
GNS430; Tx Aviation data to EFIS1/2, GTX327, TT VSGV
EFIS; Tx Icarus altitude data to GNS430, GTX327
EFIS; Tx / Rx to - from SL-30
I'll have to look up what the GRT XM Weather requires.
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
-------- Original Message --------
> X-Rcpt-To: <wcurtis@nerv10.com>
>
> Jason. I have an almost identical set up with the exception of Garmin
> 530W and no SL30. Call me later today 772-460-3907, say about 4:00 PM
> eastern and I can fire up the panel and read you the set up. As an
> alternative, I think that I can back up my settings and email them to
> you. You may also contact GRT. They are VERY helpful.
>
> Regards
> Rob.
>
> On Jun 11, 2008, at 8:25 AM, jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com wrote:
>
> >
> > We are in the process of wiring our panel and would like to know if
> > there is anyone who has the same combination of avionics we have.
> > We are running into problems with the number of available serial
> > ports to communicate with. We are also uncertain as to what
> > information is communicated via the inter panel communication
> > channels.
> >
> > Is there anyone else with this combination:
> > (3) GRT HS Displays (One display has the ARINC 429, One Display has
> > an internal GPS, The last display is 'plain')
> > GRT XM Weather
> > Garmin GNS430W
> > Garmin SL30
> > Garmin GTX327
> > Garmin GMA347
> > Tru-Trak VSGVII
> >
> > Anyone else already been through this? If so we would really like
> > the opportunity to pick your brain.
> >
> > Thanks, Jason Kreidler
> > 4-Partner Build (Jason Kreidler, Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elsner)
> > Sheboygan Falls, WI
> > #40617 Finishing
> >
> >
Message 16
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| Subject: | GRT Serial Connections |
Using GRT Wx with the WS/HS versions of the GRT requires high speed
serial inputs to each DU (as opposed to using inter-DU communication).
When the new HX displays are on the scene they will use USB directly to
the Wx receiver (processor box not needed with the HX). Only ports 1 &
2 on the WS/HS support the 115,200 high speed serial rate. For
redundancy there are some cases where a single device (like the
AHRS/ADC) feeds multiple DUs.
I'd be happy to email my connectivity and configuration documents to
those interested. My panel config has the following so it's pretty
complete starting point:
GRT (3 screens)
PMA-8000B
SL-30
GNS-480
GTX-330
TruTrak Digiflight II-VSGV
GRT Weather receiver/processor
CO Guardian 353
AOA Pro
It is a relatively minor wiring difference between the GNS-480 I'm using
and a 430W and doesn't impact the serial port configuration.
Bob
N442PM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Curtis
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: GRT Serial Connections
Jason,
Your GRT configuration is and will probably continue to be a popular
configuration. I still have not decided on which solution I'm going
with and will probably not for a while yet even though most of the
electrical work is done. Why don't you share with the list what you
are trying to accomplish. Those that have sent suggestion off list,
might I suggest sharing with the list for those that are considering
this same configuration.
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/91Panel/10PanelGRT.jpg
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/91Panel/index.html
Remember, for each transmit (Tx) serial line you can have multiple
receivers (Rx). Many of your listed devices only require one or the
other. Only a few require both Tx and Rx.
GNS430; Tx Aviation data to EFIS1/2, GTX327, TT VSGV
EFIS; Tx Icarus altitude data to GNS430, GTX327
EFIS; Tx / Rx to - from SL-30
I'll have to look up what the GRT XM Weather requires.
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: GRT Serial Connections |
I have pretty much the same set-up. Call Carlos at GRT, he was very
helpfull. I e-mailed him my set-up and he sent back a spread sheet with
all the different wires and serial requirments. We have powered mine up
and so far it all works. Call me if you like.
Thane States
704-907-7402
----- Original Message -----
From: jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 8:25 AM
Subject: RV10-List: GRT Serial Connections
We are in the process of wiring our panel and would like to know if
there is anyone who has the same combination of avionics we have. We
are running into problems with the number of available serial ports to
communicate with. We are also uncertain as to what information is
communicated via the inter panel communication channels.
Is there anyone else with this combination:
(3) GRT HS Displays (One display has the ARINC 429, One Display has an
internal GPS, The last display is 'plain')
GRT XM Weather
Garmin GNS430W
Garmin SL30
Garmin GTX327
Garmin GMA347
Tru-Trak VSGVII
Anyone else already been through this? If so we would really like the
opportunity to pick your brain.
Thanks, Jason Kreidler
4-Partner Build (Jason Kreidler, Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elsner)
Sheboygan Falls, WI
#40617 Finishing
Message 18
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I've been thinking about doing something to this area for some time. What I
had decided to do, but had not done yet, is to put a mirror image angle on the
aft side of F-1010 like on the forward side. I would then have two angles
with a total of four bolts to the longeron. Not knowing all the details of the
fix, they seem to treating a symptom and not the cause. It seems that an
additional angle would reduce twist and also strengthen the attachment. I am
planning to do this in addition to Van's SB. I would like to hear what others
think.
In addition, I had already planned to add another angle at the aft
portion of where the VS attaches to the tailcone.
Dave Syvertson
40625 (fuselage)
**************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best
2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)
Message 19
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I just finished looking at our plane. No cracks after 141 hours. The
inspection is easy with the emp fairing off. I'm not going to pull the tail
off unless more people find cracks or unless there's a better reason.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
Message 20
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agreed. The aircraft I would like to hear about are those who flew with a
misrigged trim and experienced twisting force on opposite halves of the
elevator.
33 hours and obviously not enough time to crack?
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 3:16 PM
Subject: RV10-List: SB
I just finished looking at our plane. No cracks after 141 hours. The
inspection is easy with the emp fairing off. I'm not going to pull the tail
off unless more people find cracks or unless there's a better reason.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
Message 21
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Check the vans site ; the service bulletin now includes pictures of the
crack and installation of the doublers. Their original description of a
crack in the tab is incorrect. see the pictures
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Curious that the crack appeared on the left side. Seems like that is the
same side that a mis rigged trim setup would cause twisting of the elevator
halves in flight under some circumstances.
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| Subject: | Emailing: sb08-6-1[1] |
This is what I found about an hour ago. Look at the end of the pdf.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Emailing: sb08-6-1[1] |
Well no wonder--it's the one with the Continental ;-)
Seriously, if that's what we're looking for, that area is visible through
the aft inspection plates.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 7:36 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Emailing: sb08-6-1[1]
This is what I found about an hour ago. Look at the end of the pdf.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Emailing: sb08-6-1[1] |
A few observations...
1) Is the doubler going to be thick/strong enough to keep that from
happening? That's a pretty hefty crack. Seems the crack will just be on
the edge of the doubler if things are moving around that much. Antenna
doublers are supposed to be secured along 3 sides.
I'm wondering if the rib was "forced" into position possibly installed with
a bit of a bending load on it?
2) The J-Channel is contacting the bulkhead... Didn't we just discuss this?
3) I won't mention the nice long, uniform scratches in the side skin.
4) Anyone know what the pop rivets in front of the F-1010 are.... data
plate?
4) I'm with Dave... must be the Continental :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 7:36 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Emailing: sb08-6-1[1]
This is what I found about an hour ago. Look at the end of the pdf.
Message 26
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| Subject: | Emailing: sb08-6-1[1] |
Oops forgot my name on the last one...
Ben Westfall
#40579
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 7:36 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Emailing: sb08-6-1[1]
This is what I found about an hour ago. Look at the end of the pdf.
Message 27
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| Subject: | Emailing: sb08-6-1[1] |
I doubt it was the engine. I just talked with someone who flew the 220
version for transition training September 2007. He squawked the aircraft for
inadequate up trim. I have flown the 540 version for 33 hours and never
gotten the trim setting more than 2 bars from neutral. Inadequate up trim
suggest to me that a improperly rigged trim system might have the two
elevator halves fighting each other and twisting the elevators and stressing
the horizontal stab.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 9:02 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Emailing: sb08-6-1[1]
Oops forgot my name on the last one...
Ben Westfall
#40579
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 7:36 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Emailing: sb08-6-1[1]
This is what I found about an hour ago. Look at the end of the pdf.
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Emailing: sb08-6-1[1] |
After looking closely at the pictures, it appears that the metal is not only
cracked, but also "crinkled." If you look at the skin to the left of the
crack, it appears to also be deformed which concurs with the failure of the
bulkhead. First thought is there was substantial down pressure
(compression) on the longeron and on the F1010A angle at this point.
Except when rolling, would there ever be uneven force on the HS? And even
then I would think the forces would be very little. Would it be possible to
detect equal tensional stress on the other side?
I agree with the twisted HS theory.
Dave Leikam
#40496 N89DA (Reserved)
Muskego, WI
- Original Message -----
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 11:29 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Emailing: sb08-6-1[1]
>
> I doubt it was the engine. I just talked with someone who flew the 220
> version for transition training September 2007. He squawked the aircraft
> for
> inadequate up trim. I have flown the 540 version for 33 hours and never
> gotten the trim setting more than 2 bars from neutral. Inadequate up trim
> suggest to me that a improperly rigged trim system might have the two
> elevator halves fighting each other and twisting the elevators and
> stressing
> the horizontal stab.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 9:02 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Emailing: sb08-6-1[1]
>
>
>
> Oops forgot my name on the last one...
>
> Ben Westfall
> #40579
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 7:36 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Emailing: sb08-6-1[1]
>
>
> This is what I found about an hour ago. Look at the end of the pdf.
>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Emailing: sb08-6-1[1] |
Dave, i agreeI
If folks take the time and go back through the archive and read the
original posts (12/06) which witnessed the 'twist' and the follow on
discussion regarding the Elevator trim rigging and how following Van's
plan instructions, can and will result in a twisted HS. the situation
described there is entirely consistent with the results depicted in the
picture of the crack. I believe that there is a VERY high likelihood
that the root cause of the crack lies in a twisting moment induced by
the asynchronous movement of the elevator trim tabs. I was the individ
David refers to that flew 220RV late last year, and there was not enough
up elevator trim available to take the significant back pressure off the
elevator during landings. I believe this is also consistent with the
trim rigging and twisting explanation. Here's an excerpt from my post
following transition training.
**This brings up the next point and that is elevator authority. N220RV had
NO balast in the rear when we flew. We initiated our approach with 20
degrees of flaps (second detent), Turning downwind we added full flaps.
With full flaps there is NOT enough trim to take the back pressure off
of the stick. I found that the back pressure was much more than I found
comfortable, and flew some landings with 2 hands! Makes it
difficult/impossible to develop a fingertip feel on landings. The other
item has been reported by several others and that is when landing it
takes the full aft movement of the stick. The topic has been discussed &
debated previously, but in my opinion with only 2 people and no
baggage/balast there is not enough elevator. Towards the end of 8.1
hours, I was able to get some of the rust scrubbed off, got a little
less shy about the rapidly approaching ground, and found a way to
'muscle' a couple of good landings. then Mike says " let me show you
something, .... we took another trip around the pattern flew exactly as
before only on our base leg after extending full flaps, he had me 'blip'
off a degree or two of flap at a time until the back pressure I'd grown
unaccustomed to holding was gone..... then flew the rest of the landing
!!!!! WOW!!! what a difference !!!!! Mike why did you keep this little
secret to the end??????? the plane landed almost identical to full
flaps, but the 'feel' was completely different and actually a joy!!!!!**
Dave Leikam wrote:
>
> After looking closely at the pictures, it appears that the metal is
> not only cracked, but also "crinkled." If you look at the skin to the
> left of the crack, it appears to also be deformed which concurs with
> the failure of the bulkhead. First thought is there was substantial
> down pressure (compression) on the longeron and on the F1010A angle at
> this point. Except when rolling, would there ever be uneven force on
> the HS? And even then I would think the forces would be very
> little. Would it be possible to detect equal tensional stress on the
> other side?
>
> I agree with the twisted HS theory.
>
> Dave Leikam
> #40496 N89DA (Reserved)
> Muskego, WI
>
>
> - Original Message ----- From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 11:29 PM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Emailing: sb08-6-1[1]
>
>
>>
>> I doubt it was the engine. I just talked with someone who flew the 220
>> version for transition training September 2007. He squawked the
>> aircraft for
>> inadequate up trim. I have flown the 540 version for 33 hours and never
>> gotten the trim setting more than 2 bars from neutral. Inadequate up
>> trim
>> suggest to me that a improperly rigged trim system might have the two
>> elevator halves fighting each other and twisting the elevators and
>> stressing
>> the horizontal stab.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 9:02 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Emailing: sb08-6-1[1]
>>
>>
>>
>> Oops forgot my name on the last one...
>>
>> Ben Westfall
>> #40579
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 7:36 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RV10-List: Emailing: sb08-6-1[1]
>>
>>
>>
>> This is what I found about an hour ago. Look at the end of the pdf.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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